Real Kyper & Bourne - Confounding Flames

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a look at tonight's clash between Connor McDavid and Connor Bedard and why it will never live up to rivalries like Ovechkin vs. Crosby. Flames analyst Eric Francis joins the show (3:55) to discuss Chris Tanev's injury last night, how his and Markström's injuries change the team's immediate direction and the future of the team tied to their young contributors. Finally, news and notes - checking in on the dads on the Leafs' dads' road trip, Rantanen calls out Lehkonen's dad and a look at the suspensions handed out to Perron and Gudbranson.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome in to real kipper and born we are live on sports net and sports at 650 in vancouver and sports at 960 in calgary this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee in the next hour in a few minutes we'll welcome in eric francis senior columnist with sports net Does a terrific job covering the Calgary Flames. Last night... Hold on. Where's our rocking guitar solo? Yeah. With your intro. We just do a cold open?

What happened? It feels like a dry run, right? I don't know. Are we on air? Hello? Oh, is it below my level? I'm told it was there. We just can't hear it. We're like dogs. With a high pitch. No, the dogs can hear the high pitch.

They can hear it. Okay. We're like the opposite of dogs. We're the opposite of dogs. We're like my dog when I tell him to sit. He doesn't hear it. There you go. Yeah.

Oh, sorry. You were doing a show when I was interrupting you. Oh, hey! All right, there we go. was interrupting you. All right. There we go. There we go. All right. That feels better. Now we've got our vibe going.

There we go. Comfortable lead, I think. No, never really a comfortable lead. 5-3. And then they give up, what, three unanswered goals. 6-5 in regulation. Nine minutes. Yeah.

And felt a little devastating. and i don't know if if only they had a shutdown d-man like tanev if if if that feels worse than losing tan of the first 15 seconds of the opening face-off which is worse the tan have lost probably i here's where i'm at with the flames good team could make the playoffs this season but for what you know like i know they're not a stanley cup contender are they not better to accumulate assets maybe be worse i know no one wants to hear that they should probably just you know they got huberto they got weaker they got cadre they're playing for it they're officially behind the edmonton oilers now they are behind the oil Oilers. Yeah. Tanev's out.

They've traded Zdorov. So, quickly before we get in, we can get into this more after Eric. I don't know if he's there yet or not, but what do you... I pitched this to you guys yesterday when we were off air. I was like, oh, you know,

big Bedard versus Connor McDavid battle tonight. Like, do you think we should... We both swam right by your bait. And both of you guys were like... Not a story. Listen, not a story. Listen, not a story. Not a story. Connor versus Connor. They both really like

each other. They're 10 years apart in age and neither of them are well. I don't blame them for trying. It's on TNT National. It's on down south. Great players. First pick. Names are the same. End of list. Okay.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Am I way off base here? Marquee in that there's two Great players. First pick. Names are the same. End of list. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong. Am I way off base here? Marquee in that there's two great players. I don't blame them for trying to hang their hat on something here. Yeah. Outside of Bedard, there's nothing that would ever make you want to watch a Chicago Blackhawk game. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, great.

Connor versus Connor, where the one connor wins seven one like like mcdavid's humming now the others have won seven in a row like bedard is finding it he's having a great year he's an awesome player but like sid and ovi hated each other and they were the same age within a year or two there was some both their teams were good and they met in the play. Like, there's no juice here. Yeah, there's no. You'll never get that, I think, out of Bedard.

But I don't know. We may be wrong. There might be a little bit of a tiger in there somewhere. They skate in the summer together. Oh, like you're just saying they just like each other. So it can't be like a true rivalry. No, they're both trying to be great alongside. Like, maybe if both teams are great at the same time,

at some point we'll have some. And they'll eventually be teammates playing for Team Canada. Okay, look forward to that if that ever happens. All right, as we mentioned earlier, Eric Francis now joins us, senior columnist with Sportsnet.ca. Eric, thanks for joining us. Top of the hour, we were talking about a blown lead on whether or not that's the first thing you think of last night

is blowing the three-goal lead or losing Chris Tanov in the first 15 seconds. Which one is a bigger story for you? Tough to say which stings the most. I mean, it was such a gritty effort with five defensemen the whole game. They blocked 30 shots. Like, they were, it would have been a season-turning win, in my opinion. Instead, it's like a season, you know, the biggest gut punch all season they'll probably get.

So, yeah, the word on Tanev, from what I understand, is that he was feeling a little better after the game. Like, I know we're not supposed to throw the word concussion around, but like when someone's face goes first into the glass, you have to assume that that's potentially what he's dealing with. He looked quite dazed. Anyway, apparently he looked a lot better after the game. He's definitely not playing tonight. They've listed him as day-to-day.

So I assume we're supposed to read into it that that's good news. So, you know, where do you think this Flames team is at? I just, you know, kind of just said maybe it'd be better if they're going the opposite direction than winning with this season. But there's a lot of weak teams in the West. They could get into the playoffs. They have enough veteran guys and goaltending and D that you never know once you're there.

You know, where are they and what do you think they should be doing? I'm 100% with you. I think they could make the playoffs. I mean, I think, you know, but I don't think you can make the playoffs if you get rid of two or three of those UFAs. I mean, those are cornerstones of your franchise, you know, like Hannafin, Lindholm and Tanev. I mean, extremely popular extremely important so yeah if you kept them i think you'd have you know 50 50 chance of making the playoffs but you can't keep them all you probably can't keep even more than one of them and probably the

smart money is that they won't keep any of them so i'm 100 with you for what you know this this franchise for 30 years has been in the middle, right in the middle. I actually did the numbers the other day. 30 years of NHL hockey in Calgary, Flames are 17th. They have the 17th best record. That's like the worst place to be because you don't get good draft picks and you're also often not in the playoffs.

So that kind of sums up where they've been for 30 years now is a really golden opportunity to affect significant change in that regard eric uh what two three weeks ago a couple of big wins against vegas and dallas and were those wins to buy craig conroy time to not feel like the pressure to, to move anybody. And did maybe the last couple of losses change that again? Or is this the way it's going to be? Like,

what is this preference right now? Because I'll, I'll use Tana as an example here. And yes, everybody knows he'd be great on any contending team right now as a legit top four shutdown guy but then there's that thing that hangs over his head a little bit is that that injury he can go down at any time so does that is last night's reminder of him being hurt to Craig Conroy is be careful here how long you want to hold on to him and if he gets hurt

again is it going to be day to day week to week or season ending you nailed it you know I mean it's a cautionary tale what happened last night and like I said it looks like they may have dodged a bullet here but this guy's the ultimate warrior in the way he plays the game. I mean, I think most people in Canada saw him eat that puck a couple weeks ago, and he was back the next game. I mean, this guy will – the funny thing is I've often used the term he'd block a shot with his face in the preseason. He'll do it in game 25, 27 as well, but that's the danger. And so, yes, Craig Conroy is taking, you know,

probably upwards of at least another month to really see what he's got here. They put a moratorium on any contract talks with any of their UFAs or anything like that, and they just want to see what they've got. But then when you see 15 seconds of the game last night, you know, one of your big prospects, and prospect's not the word, but, you know,

you're going to get at least a second rounder and probably a really good prospect for Chris Tannen if you decide to trade him. And that may have all disappeared with one hit into the glass. So it looks like, again, that's not going to be the case right now, but every game those guys play, you run the risk of jeopardizing the future of this franchise a little more. So maybe you want to speed it up.

But I also don't think he'd do anything before Christmas. I just don't think Conroy's that guy. But as soon as Christmas is over, it's my belief that it should be open season because by then you'll have seen enough two-game winning streaks, three-game losing streaks. One-game win, two games losing. That's what we've seen here for 30 years.

So if you're looking to turn things around, you need some young people. I've been really impressed with Connor Zeri. It's he at nearly Huberto's point total and 10 less games. And he's been effective. You know, what are your thoughts on some of the young guys coming along? Like if they do flip some assets,

would they be able to be competitive again soon? I think so. Yeah. I mean, you know, you know, I, the Huberto issue is going to be a,

probably a problem for a long time. Is he still struggling? Seven more years. Still struggling? You know, yeah, he's really struggling. Really struggling. And, you know, it's the point where it's actually hurting the team. The other night he had an open net. They were up 1-0.

They had all the momentum in the world. He missed the open net by about a foot from five feet out. And next thing you know, they lose the game. But Conor's dairy is the biggest and best and most surprising story of the season for the Calgary Flames. He really is. Guys, at the end of the season, I mean, we've got a long way to go. But at this point in time, he's got to be in the Calder conversation. I'm not throwing him up there with the other Conor.

Don't get me wrong. But I'm just saying, on a points-per-game basis, I think he's got to be in the calder conversation i'm not throwing him up there with the other connor don't get me wrong but i'm just saying on a points per game basis i think he's second only to madard and he's really having an impact he's on the top line right now i got promoted to the top line had a great goal last night 13 points in 18 games like he's really i think he's only two goals off the team lead and he missed 10 games so yeah connor's area is a big part of what this team will be moving forward. And I do think they can retool, is the word, and be a really good team in a couple years. I really do believe that. Caudry's

been a really good player for them. You've got some cornerstones here. You've got strong goaltending, all three of them. There are a lot of positive signs. Make a couple really good trades and it's a different outlook. So why has Caudry been able to turn this thing around, and Huberto has not?

You know, Kadri's really been energized by two raw rookies. I mean, Martin Pospisil and Conor Zeri have been on his wings, and ever since then, Kadri's been a point-per-game guy. He's fully engaged. He's a leader. I think he really likes being that father figure, so to speak, to those young guys. He says they've energized him. He's energized them.

I really think that, you know, the first 10 games were a bit of a struggle for him, and he wasn't getting any point production. Now he is, and he's been really good. And like I said, him and Coleman have probably been the two most consistent Flames all season long. So when people speak from the outside, like looking in and say,

well, you're in big trouble when you got a Codry contract and a Huberto contract, that's only half true because Codry is not a problem. He is a real leader for this team. So what are your thoughts on what's happening in Edmonton right now, where they've found it a little bit? I know Flames fans are not having fun watching this show so far, but Oilers kind of look more like what we thought they'd be.

Yeah, people in Calgary look at the Oilers like a bad cold. You just can't shake them no matter how the season started for them. I don't think anybody in hockey thought that they were definitely going to be out of the picture. I mean, it was looking tenuous there, don't get me wrong, but clearly McDavid is healthier. And I don't even think dry side is at 100% right now or not playing that way. And they're still just absolutely rolling, which surprises,

I don't think anybody's certainly out this neck of the woods. So, yeah, that's something we've heard about a lot in Calgary over the last couple of days, that the Oilers have surged ahead of the Flames. Because I can tell you when the Oilers were really struggling, that was one of the number one conversations in Calgary. People really took joy in it. And I told everyone, well, enjoy it while it lasts,

because it's not lasting long yeah uh lindholm uh you know i i get where where you still have to make a decision on the transition of where you are and where you hope to be in a year or two but you know do you know do you not almost have to keep lindholm just knowing that you know you've got to battle Edmonton in the next few years and keep people engaged. But at what cost, Kipper? I agree. It's tough to trade any one of those three guys.

I would argue Tanev is the hardest one to trade because he's the ultimate teammate, the ultimate pro. If you've got a young team, who better to teach them how to be a pro on and off the ice than a guy like Tanev? I can say the same thing about Lindholm. At the beginning of the year, they offered him eight years times $8 million. The word on the street was on the open market, he probably thinks he can get nine, nine and a half.

Well, with the season he's having right now and the season he had last year, 64 points. I think that's, I think if I was Lindholm, I'd go back to the Flames and say, you know what? I'll take eight by eight. I really do. I think his stock is, I'm not going to say it's plummeted. He's coveted around the league as one of the better two-way centers, but it's, it's, you know, at what price? And I don't think the Flames can afford it.

And, and plus the end of the day, I don't think he wants to stay here. I got that feeling. We all got that feeling when he left last year. And I don't think much has changed in the, in terms of positive news for him and the way he looks at this team and this city. Dustin Wolf, exciting some people there. How much time is he going to spend in the Flames crease this year? Well, I think Marksman is supposed to be out probably another week is what we're kind of led to believe with a broken finger.

While he's here, he sure made some noise. People love him. He's probably the most popular player on the team. People love every time they hear that he's starting. He represents the future. And people in this city are so excited about turning the page from the mushy middle and trying to build something different on the backs of youth. And as I said earlier, Zari's one of the most exciting players

on this team this year. Martin Pospis will have taken some time doing that. Matt Cordell got sent back down today, but at the end of the day, people are really excited about what he can bring. But of all them, Dustin Wolfe is the guy they're most excited about. And I think in every one of his appearances this year, he's been really strong. A lot of the goals that he let in were not his fault.

So exciting time for Flames fans to see this guy really starting to prove finally that at this level he can do it as well. You know what? As far as prototypical goalies today in the National Hockey League, they're all 6'3", 6'4", 6'5". He doesn't fall into that, but he's proven at every level that he doesn't have to be that size. But are there still some naysayers out there that think that'll catch up to him,

that he's not bigger than the guy across from him 200 feet away? You know, I think for years you've heard that, but it's four years in a row now he's been the best goalie in the league that he played in. Two years in junior, two years in the AHL, and last year he was the MVP of the AHL. I mean, I don't know what else a guy can do to prove that he's ready for a legitimate shot than what he's done. And when you see him out there, it's not like he comes out

and everyone says, oh, my Lord, he's so small. They still have him listed at six feet. I know that might be a little liberal, but at the end of the day he's pretty close and uh he's only like 155 160 pounds he is small for sure but he doesn't look small and he doesn't play small and technically you know the golden the goalie gurus around here tell me that technically the guys is as sound as they come so i i don't think many i don't hear anybody saying just wait a second he needs to prove it people think he's the real deal already uh last one for me here i just want to get your thoughts on the change in coach from last year to this year everyone thought it was going different tone right how has huska changed things for calgary flames and the fans in the absence of

daryl sutter communication you know i mean with with daryl and it was part of his ploy he wanted everyone to be off balance and not know where they stood and that's kind of the old school way and we've all heard that and you guys have probably been coached that way by a few people uh the new age coach and the ryan huskers of the world are all about the exact opposite let them know where they stand at all times give them constant feedback give them an overload of feedback and that's the difference and the players really respect ryan they like ryan and i know that doesn't matter whether the players like a coach or not it makes life easier but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be successful. But I would say he's been a success so far.

I know the record might not reflect that. But don't forget, guys, they had two wins in their first 10 games. And a Lester coach might have let this thing get right off the rails, and this thing could have been over before it even started. But he had them battle back and get right back into a playoff race. So I give him a ton of credit. I think he's been very effective. Eric, great stuff, man.

Really appreciate your time. Big challenge today in Vegas. If they find a way to get this thing done, man, they may just be the team that just won't go away. Yeah. Yeah, I think last night for two periods, it sort of looked like they were that team. But at the end of the day,

they're just not good enough to roll with a team like the Aps. So we'll see how they fare tonight. They've only won once in Vegas in their history, so it'll be a tough one. All right, Calgary and Vegas tonight. Eric, really appreciate your time, man. Thanks for doing this. Cheers, boys.

Always good to catch up. Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it. He mentioned a second-round pick and a pretty good prospect for for tan of a second rounder and a prospect yeah yeah oh that's uh we just have neither of those things so yeah there's a few teams probably uh in a situation where either they don't have the prospect or, you know, there's still the cash element here. And the one thing that was so appealing to Craig Conroy when he moved the door off

is that they happily took all of the money. Yeah. I mean, there's always the option when someone sets a price like that for you to go, okay, well, we've got a really good prospect, so we'll call it a fourth. Or, you know, like that's kind of their baseline. we've got a really good prospect so call it a fourth or you know like that's kind of their baseline it wouldn't have to be a second specifically depending what

you had but you know if you're talking about the leafs here as we were before like the leafs don't have a second but they have the ability with klingberg's contract gone now to take all of it yeah which i think kind of matches. No, it's not going to third. Well, it depends what the prospect is, right? If it's Easton Cowan, it's not a pick at all. It depends what you trade for a prospect.

But would they push for Minton? That would be ridiculous. I mean, Minton is... They have to give something up to go get a guy who can shut down teams like chris tan of it's not cheap jb no no and maybe there's not a fit with the leafs because the leafs prospects like minton and cowan are what they need now and that they're cheap and they're just about cooked in the oven like they can use minton next season um so that's probably a tough

one for them to make nick robertson been playing well sure and the flames could use some scoring by the way calgary flames top scorers cadre with 20 points they're looking for a guy who gets with some scoring they should probably find a guy who scores so i do want to say i've liked robertson a lot he's trying so hard he wins backpacks he's trying right spots. He's doing all the right things. Under the right circumstances. Great guys. Bigger, heavier players to help him.

Put him on the power play. Open up room. Yeah, I think there's something there. I think he's a player now. I believe he's an NHL player now. I didn't last year. Top six player. Yeah, I do. On a not great team on the calgary fight listen there's 32 teams

in the league like not everyone can be a top six guy on a cup winner yeah there's still 32 teams yep let someone talk so anyway i i am like you know i like a lot of the pieces on calgary and yeah they're like the canucks of old to me where it's like i don't get why they're this bad maybe it's just their jerseys are so beautiful i like watching them and it just feels like they should be better than they are and they're just you know i i don't quite i can't quite put my finger on it lack of scoring yeah the lindholm thing was fascinating because you know i still think of him he scored 42 goals for the flames last year he played the whole season he only had 22 well

and this year he's when you don't play with you know matthew kachuk and johnny gadreau on the line best line in history basically that's pretty that's a pretty easy job but it's funny because if you had asked me who had more value in the open market nylander or lindholm after that season it's probably lindholm right he's a bigger guy, two-way guy. Yeah, I would agree with that. And now it's like, you know, we're talking about Willie and the 11s. He's talking about 8x8 for Lindholm.

I mean, sign me up to give Lindholm 7x8. I don't think Lindholm's going to ever find himself in a Klingberg situation where you're turning down $60 million to take a little bit more right but it makes you as a player go okay when do i think enough's enough or when do i want to push for more or if i'm turning down 64 will i see it again could it become 50 could it become 45 that's what i you know could it become 30 this is why these guys sign these deals you look at um

how about josh anderson's contract he's making five and a half for two more seasons he's got one empty netter this year yeah about jg pageau in the aisles he's making five times six six years at five million per. How many points do you have this year? I don't know. Ten. In 27 games? You know, like some of these guys that get offered longer-term deals,

sometimes you just got to take the longer-term deal because it's not always going to go great. So, you know. Yeah, you got to be careful. You got to be careful. The security is a lot of value. And the agent, too. The agent's got to be careful. That's security is a lot of value and and the agent too the agent's got to be careful that's his money too it's a good point like i'm sure we always

talk about clingberg i'm sure who his old agent is sitting at home going ah could use that boat clingberg should have hired otani's agent uh you know what i'm watching again last night uh and eric mentioned it, Blake Coleman. I'm watching Blake, and it's like, no wonder the Lightning won with that guy. He plays hard. So hard. He was so average in the American League, but he just works. Really?

I did. He played for Albany when I was at the Marlies, and he was fine. Yeah, he's a second, third line guy. Worked hard. Forechecked. But just took it. at the Marlies and he was fine. Really? Yeah, he's a second, third line guy. Worked hard, four checked. But just took it. Continued to take that level up to where now you do that at the NHL level and you score 20 times, you make a lot of money. Took it to another level.

Yeah. And I think Rasmus Andersen played 30 minutes with 10 of out in the first 15 seconds. They asked a lot of Rasmus Andersen. He's a nice player. Every name you're saying here i'm like love that player i know really like love cadre i guess hubert o making 10 shmiel doesn't help them in terms of but yeah cadre coleman elias lindholm mckenzie weger rasmus anderson manji apani hubert

o like backland hannifin that team has so many good players really like all those guys. I like Dubé. Chris Tanev. Walker Tuer. Game time. Sorry. Coronado. Sorry. No, it's a good team. It's just weird.

Yeah. Maybe they don't give up quite yet. All right. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. Got a few dogs for this evening. You know, I've been red hot No Otani talk Checking in on the odds I saw I saw a great t-shirt floating around Twitter That the Los Angeles tax dodgers And I was like

I might have to get that t-shirt I asked him before the show Wouldn't the state of California be upset That a guy's going to work there and not pay any of those taxes? Don't you want the money? You're making $2 million a year? He's going to make $40 million in endorsements and just live off that? We're going to go one day and we're going to go to CapFriendly and it won't completely

make any sense. No, it's going to be so many layers. Remember the good old days when you actually got paid a number, a salary, a real number at a real time. But I can't believe California's not going to be like, he's going to do the work here, leave, and then get the money? We want our money. He earned it here.

No. That's not how it works. No, no. It's like... My innocent means. What's he making? $2 million? Yeah. Well, he's paying taxes on $2 million. That's his income. No, he's making $70. He's getting paid to. But what's he making, $2 million? Yeah. Well, he's paying taxes on $2 million. That's his income. No, he's making 70. He's getting paid to. But he's not making it to later on.

Yeah, but he is making it. He is making it in the 10 years he's in the state. This is an excellent conversation. No, this is, can you get an accountant? Can you get an American? Yeah, call Stu up. We need someone smarter than us, but all I know is

that you pay what you're supposed to pay and he's not supposed to pay taxes on it. Yeah, you're right about that. So tonight I'm going with two pretty significant dogs. Last night I went with literally dogs. The coyotes. Last night I went with the coyotes. Didn't

treat me too well, but they're on the second half of back-to-back tonight. The Coyotes. Last night, I went with the Coyotes. Didn't treat me too well. But they're on the second half of back-to-back tonight. Going into the Penguins. No, Penguins cannot lose tonight. They are. Here's the thing about the Penguins. They're not very good. They're not very good.

We just went through Calgary's lineup. Look at the Penguins' lineup. Okay. I think they might lose. And you get pretty good value on plus 160 on the Coyotes. The Penguins, to me me should not be a minus 200 favorite against anybody in the league. The way they're playing right now. They haven't scored on the power play in six

years. I think the Penguins are going to win but I think that's a good bet. Is there a bet on a power play goal? I don't even know how to look that up. Not sad enough. A bet on a power play goal. They haven't scored one in a month. Yeah.

What would you put it at? It's been a minute. A lot. The other one I'm looking at is the Flyers in Nashville. Seems like the books aren't quite believing. Good Flyers. Believing in the Flyers yet. And I watched that Nashville team be pretty listless on Saturday night.

The Flyers are playing hard. They have balls, as their coach likes to say. They're plus 120 in Nashville tonight. So give me the Preds. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Give me the Preds? Oh, give me the, what did I say? I meant to say give me the Flyers over the Preds.

And the last quick one, another one, you're talking about a team that needs to win. The Red Wings have yet to win with Patrick Kane, I believe. Right? They haven't won yet. They're looking to lose. It'll be the third in a row that they would lose. Third game that he's played.

They're plus 120 in St. Louis. So they got to win a game here eventually. St. Louis isn't great. I like that one as a dog. Yeah. And I just look at the futures. I don't like him without Dylan Larkin for a while. Yeah, it's tough.

Do we know how long he's out? Seems like a long time. Yeah. Doesn't look good. He's on IR, but that's not the 10 games or 24-day one. He's a placeholder until he's LTIR. And the crazy thing, I was looking at the futures because, you know, I like to look at the futures.

The second favorite for the Vesna right now, Cam Talbot. Plus 750. That's a bad bet. Don't place that bet. Do not bet that. But it's crazy. It's a weird year. Goalies are weird, man.

In the year 2023, Cam Talbot is the second favorite for the Vesna in December. Crazy. Just going, what? Pardon? We traded Gustafson for him, and now we don't have him? All right.

That was Game Time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus. On Terra only. Please play responsibly. Okay, we're going to take a quick break.

And usually when we do that, there's music played, right? When we come back. Oh, when we come back. Oh, that's in hours. Okay. I think. Honestly, I couldn't tell you. That's hilarious.

We've done the show for the third year and we don't know. What is up with Mikko Rantanen Because Oh yeah He's not very happy With a teammate's dad Is that the story? Yeah

Do you have that clip? I do Oh I want to hear it After the break Okay I'm happy with your dad By the way Oh yeah he's a good guy

Shout out to Al Just don't Andy sir And just don't watch him putt from four feet. What, it takes too long or what? We'll just go to break. Yep. Okay. Tell me during the break.

All right, more real Kipper and Bourne after these words. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The Jazz Mary Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, tech guru and genius of our show. The brains behind the whole operation, Derek Brandeo, of course.

Oh, yeah. Like, he missed his music intro once, and you're up in arms over it? Really? Yeah. No, it's an integral part of my pre-shot routine. I think the show's nothing without him. It's true. If I don't, it's like, if I don't have it as a part of, like, doing my glove up before my swing, I can't.

And let's not forget Jen Rolnick. Yes. Another. And what about me? Tech genius. You. And I help. You're just you.

You're just you. So in light of all these dad trips, I think the Leafs are currently on one. Flyers are on one as well. Why do you have a problem with your dad putting within three feet? Oh, why'd you bring him back up? No, no reason. No. He just gets lots of gimme's from me.

Well, while we're discussing dads and putting, my dad is a lefty and he is so not confident with his putting. Inside 10 feet, he switches and putts right-handed. He carries two putters

to avoid the short yips. Okay, can I share my dad? Yeah, let's have it. My dad took up golfing at age 65 and had three hole-in-ones. Come on.

Up until he stopped golfing maybe five years ago. Wow. Three. Three. Yes. That's remarkable. And you have one? I've got two. One. Oh yeah, when you were like 12, right? 12, yeah.

I forgot to tell you guys yesterday. You had one yesterday? No, but I golfed Saturday. What? You guys okay? How did that not come up? I don't know. What? In December?

You didn't mention it? Latest ever. Wow. It was really warm. It was balmy, 13 degrees. I saw my boy. What was open? Rosed was balmy, 13 degrees. I saw my boy. What was open? Rosedale?

Yeah, Rosedale. They've got all temporary holes at the bottom of the greens. Yeah. And I'm hitting. Auto two-putt. You love it. Driver. It felt good to unleash.

There was a few courses open. My boy out at Cope Town, Barry, he opened it up. I saw some tweets from out there like it was golfable it was very mild on saturday out there at the park with my kids like a fool yeah breaking leaves or something all right um as we mentioned going to break uh ranting in really kind of a strange thing because i had to be reminded that he's speaking of a teammate's dad who apparently made comments to a Finnish newspaper that he was not happy with. It's Arturi Lekkonen's dad. Yes.

And what was the context that you told us? The context is that Lekkonen's dad is a hockey commentator. A former player who was talking. It wasn't just like a random person on the street interview or something. And the gist of it is that he questioned his off-season training and whether or not he was in great shape or not, correct? Something like that. Do we have it? We do have the clip.

Here, Miko ranting and weighing in on that. It was good. There's actually one thing where I got a lot of extra energy, you know, one of our Finnish NHL players' dad was talking about me in media that I didn't train

last summer like I used to do and he was just making things up, so I think that was for him, you know. If you talk s***, it's going to come

back at you. Apparently he like went out of his way to make this point. Yeah, it wasn't even referenced. No. Nobody knew anything about it. And that's usually the case, that there's always a ton of news coming out of Sweden and Finland, but it doesn't necessarily

reach us here in North America so it kind of sits idle but Branton brought it to the forefront. That one stuck with him. Yeah. And it is, it's weird to me that he says a Finnish player's one of our Finnish players' dads

just say the name. He didn't go Leckie's dad. He went Finnish players dad. There was some stuff in the replies to this that they know each other. Miko and the Finnish players dad. It sounds like they have a relationship.

Come on that's a direct you don't go into the news and swear twice about a guy talking whatever if you're just being playful. We're talking about it nationally on television in Canada, a Finnish newspaper story. Yeah. Yeah, he wanted to make a point here.

Mission accomplished for Mikko here. Don't you think? Let's check out his season stats, shall we? He scored his first and nine last night, I think. I think that's what he was mentioning. He said it felt good. It just sounded like, I don't know, if you're going to go out of your way to do that.

And he is a professional broadcaster, is he not? He is. So he's paid to have an opinion. But not on the NHL. And here's what would kill me, Kip, is if you're Brantanen, you know that, I forget his first name, whatever, Lekanen's dad got that info from somewhere.

That opinion from somewhere. And where does it come from? It comes from Arturi. It comes from your teammate. Arturi. That's an amazing name, by the way. You're assuming. We don't know.

We don't know for sure. Yeah. But Lekanen's dad wasn't watching Rantanen. Well, maybe he was watching him work out all summer. But I see where you're coming from. If you're ranting in, you're like, where the hell did you hear that? Yes. You're like, where did that come from?

Where could it have come from? You're going to start. I get the assumption for sure. Drawing lines here. I did see something that maybe they work out. Maybe he does know. Maybe he did see, which would make it even worse if he watched him work out all summer and then was like, not a really great workout

there, pal. Those arms would look a little noodley. It just seems like going out of your way for, I don't know if it's worth it. No, but you know what? If Willie Nylander said, I read this thing in the paper, someone was talking

crap about me, and I went out there and it motivated me personally and I stuck it through. Callie Y yarncroft's dad said yeah he was like engaged and mad and do it if really nobody else heard it that's the thing if a tree you want to draw comment falls in finland and no one hears it or reads it yes but he's from finland boys it's obviously a huge story he's clearing up for fin people being like yeah actually just call somebody in finland and leave it in finland he's got 34 points in 28 games he's so we're gonna see a practice fight soon i i read something you know what i could have used here and no i don't know the context again of the reporter and whatever but like he said that and the immediate follow-up question was yeah and how about this other guy on your team? Yeah. Like, can I get a follow-up to that one?

Be like, uh, what? That's the best follow-up you could give. Elaborate. What are you talking about? Who said what? Anyway. All right, what seems to be a quiet scenario for suspensions in October and November, it heats up.

David Perron gets six games. Six games. Good Branson gets one game. Can I find you the... You okay with the six? And, you know, I think one of the comparables has to go back to Austin Matthews and the outdoor game. That's a while back, though.

Is there a statute of limitations in terms of when you can compare something? Because it was a fairly significant cross-check that Matthews put on Rasmus. To me, it was more... From Buffalo. I think Matthews earned his two on that one. But I don't think there's any comparison in terms of the intent and how malicious they were well we sat here matthews is he got him in the shoulder first and it rode up yeah garan went straight across travel distance to make the

cross check right into his mouth right into his face pj yesterday saying like if it's 10 games he'd be fine with it. The intent to injure is there. What about the fact that you just completely got the wrong guy? That's a tough one. It reminded me when we'd drive to Florida every once in a while, and the three of us, me and my two sisters, would be driving my dad nuts to the point where he's like, you know, he starts swinging his

right arm at us. And he says, I don't care who it hits. And that's basically what Perron did. Yeah. He pulled a dad. Yeah, he dad-moted and it was unnecessary. So anyway, we on the show yesterday were like, PJ was like, could be 10. I don't care.

I thought it was vicious. Didn't like it. But Alan Walsh, Perron's agent. He says, Department of Player Suspensions, a.k.a. the Perros Kangaroo Court, is a media PR entity. It has nothing to do with player safety. Baseball bats swing to player's head.

No hearing. He's referring to Trouba, presumably, on Frederick. Perron, 1,100 NHL games without suspension. Zub played the next shift six games. This is a far a farce he said ron's never been suspended before that's also shocking he's a grease bag i'm surprised that he hasn't been fine but he's always played on the edge i think he had a playoff fine that's it walsh also says the violent gentleman is a joke george peros wears that brand so, that's not my words. Allen does it. He represents his players.

Absolutely. That job George Peros has, first of all, it's the worst job in hockey. It's the worst job in hockey, and I think he does a good job. And I know that's not a popular thing to say. I like it. I think they should max out that job at four years and keep it turning. I 100% agree that it's like a president. Because there is a chance that you can reset.

Well, that's the old guy. Agreed. But I see it. New standard. New standard, different standard, fresher standard. And also, you can only take so much abuse from the public.

Here's a question I don't know if you can answer. But would you rather it be stricter? Like, do we want it stricter? Do we want it stricter so we want it less strict like i don't know what the thing i want i think the people on my twitter feed which you know a little lefty sometimes would like to see it stricter you know like that's my hitting out of the game yeah no hit league but so i, I'm pretty fine with the standard. I think he does a good job. Yeah, I thought six was a good number.

Everybody wants hard hockey and hard hitting and, you know, show me something that I can never envision myself doing. Dude, we had Mike Gartner on this show who said he can't watch some of the games because there's not enough of it. I know. He's like, there's not enough aggression, animosity, competitiveness. That's when you have to say,

all right, let's get here. We need plan B. Oh, we got to... Mike Gartner's not into it. Time for a referendum. We got to do something different here. So, yeah, six games to me. Traveled some distance.

Bad shot. Sit down. I think he forfeits $150,000. You know, that's a convincer to not do it again. But, yeah, I thought it was a good number. You okay with it, Kip? Yeah. Good Branson got one game, by the way.

Yeah, but it was just a rule. Oh, that was a mandatory? Yeah, it was a mandatory one. Rule 40-something for something. Listen, I, early when I covered the nhl retiring i remember 20 games 23 games suspensions yeah but all chris simon also stepped on a man yeah i think brad may got suspended didn't he didn't our boy brad may get suspended 20 games or something raffy torres was also having a tough time remembering some big numbers cook. Cook got a lot of long ones.

But I will say, to the credit of the Department of Player Safety, whether it was Shanahan or Parris or whoever, we don't see that stuff anymore. Like, almost none of it. You still get these borderline plays. You guys get clipped, but it's ten times cleaner than it was. Still get the credit

it deserves for how clean the game is. To play the game at this speed in a competitive physical whatever to be as clean as it is is i don't think you can ever do better it's still humans to me though that's not good that's as clean as it is yeah i mean like i love the greasy part of hockey some would argue argue that's the most unique part of it. Cousins hit on Goodbranson, and we heard him talk about it. I have the quote here if you want me to read it. Yeah, please do.

He didn't say it to any cameras. He just said it to, I guess, Jeff Swoboda. My kids are 85 feet away from that hit. You know what I mean? It's a terrible hit. I was walking around, pacing through the hallway, trying to calm down back at home. I'm just happy my legs still work. That's the level of danger that was's a terrible hit. I was walking around, pacing through the hallway, trying to calm down back at home. I'm just happy my legs still work.

That's the level of danger that was involved with that hit. That was good Branson saying that? Yeah. I don't blame him for being mad. I hated that play. He also said, if that hit takes place three feet before that, I end up going down and bending my neck.

Yeah. Well, he's not wrong. That's when you get a compression fracture. And who knows how the rest of your life is. And, you know, he's not wrong. But the what-ifs are the thing that I think scares everybody. So if I take a baseball swing at you on the ice and I miss you, should that be the same penalty as if I hit you? It's the attempted murder argument.

If you shoot a guy and you suck at shooting, you've still got the same intent. It's a tough one. That's why it's a hard job and I wouldn't want it. Yeah, definitely you have to a little bit play the result because, you know, maybe you're trying to scare him with the swing. You know, you can, like, question some of the intent. You know, but I typically believe that you should penalize the intent,

you know, not the outcome. I do think that if Trouba takes that swing and it hits frederick you can quibble about whether you think he did it or not but you know just because frederick's okay doesn't make it any different than if he was concussed he still clocked him in the head with a stick frederick's are such a mutant didn't even face it in the pit bull my first training camp in philadelphia bob clark's on the ice teaching guys how to take face-offs. And he's like, okay, he gets in first. And then when you come in, you take your blade and you slowly drop it.

But start it at the top of his forehead and let it run right by his nose. On the way down? Yes. Over his lip and by his throat throat and then you put your stick down i'm like that's some serious intent right there you're sending a very clear message oh man you know when i played junior hockey and you know it was a 2003 or something like that so 20 years ago my junior coach used to say that you know if you're getting run to cross-check the guy running you in the face as he's running at you and he's like we'll kill that

penalty and people will stop running you like this was a part of hockey that was strategized and now i don't know that those sort of plans ever go into effect you know you don't see players doing what you're talking about sending messages the same way i think a lot of it's not as intentional they don't play cleaner they don't play again until i think march but i if i was cousins i'd be like i got the flu that night 100 good good brands it's gotta be top 10 guys you do not want he is a big mean man yeah i't, I'm not going out there against him. Coach Hammy. Hammy Day. It's just, it's barking. I can't go.

Did you, were you playing like when the like Philly flu and all that was like a real thing? When like there were teams that you just like literally wouldn't want to go into their building? Not, not just at the end of your dad's era. I mean, it was, it was a lot more. Listen, I mean, Dave Brown, Daryl Stanley, there's some kooks in Philly that could make a lot of people nervous, but not that level that we truly saw, I think, late 70s, mid 80s. Did anyone like that? Like, I should even ask you if if you how you felt as someone going

to those games who was asked to sometimes fight did you ever did you like fighting did you feel like like as those flyers teams seem to revel in the idea that this was going to be yeah the way it is the answer to your question is yes really Really? I like fighting. Really? Yeah. And I'm okay from zero to seven, but once you get me past seven, like all bets are off. In terms of anger level. Yeah, in terms of anger level.

And like I'm okay to hold. The wires are crossed. The wires really cross at seven on. And it's like, I don't care. You need to pull me out on a stretcher. I'm okay to hold. The wires are crossed. The wires really cross at 7 on. And it's like, I don't care. You need to pull me out on a stretcher. I'm fine with it. I'll give you everything I got. Yeah.

So what was the building that you were the most afraid of going into, though, when you played? Back then, probably it was Philly because, you know, Chikrin and Berube. Like, there were some big men there. They knew what their jobs were. Yeah. Someone tweeted a video of the 2000 brawl or whatever. We went and got Cordick because we were getting beat up so bad.

And then we had one of the worst brawls in the history of the game. And it was just goofy. Yeah, the anger. Like, I've never understood the people who get blackout mad in hockey. I don't have it. I don't have. People can't stop watching that stuff, though. Well, we watched that.

I sent you guys the video. It was Berube who ran the goalie and then gets the flippers off and is like, first come, first served, baby. But then at the other end, the guy that went in and just punched the goalie in the face. And then immediately... That just doesn't happen anymore.

No. And I love that stuff. What were we talking about? We got way off course here. Just totally... No idea. No idea. Oh love that stuff. Okay, what were we talking about? No, we got way off course here. Just totally. No idea. No idea. Oh, suspensions. Do we need more suspensions?

No. Wow. Did anyone get suspended in those days? No. What do you mean no? The game just ended? You just committed your war crimes? There was an ex-NHLer that many of us ex-NHLers did a camp with, Vern Buffy.

And he tells us a story when everything went crazy the first three or four minutes in a hockey game. And it was so crazy to mark down all the penalties. They just said, okay, everybody go back to the bench. We're going to start this game over again. I'm packing up. I got to go to my son's Christmas concert. Nobody knows what happened, so let's just start the game over again.

Love it. That's really a good, smart idea. Love it. Okay, our thanks to Arthur Staple from The Athletic and Eric Francis. We're back again tomorrow. Enjoy your games. 10 on tap. Real Kipper and Bourne.

Give us a rating and review if you get a chance to. We'd love to hear from you. We're back again tomorrow.