Real Kyper & Bourne - Davidson Breaks the Silence + Goalie Parity

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with more on the Corey Perry news before going live to Blackhawks GM Kyle Davidson's press conference to address the situation. They react and analyze the GM's comments and discuss how the Blackhawks have dealt with the ordeal. MSG analyst Steve Valiquette (20:21) shares his thoughts on the Rangers climbing to the top of the Metropolitan division, Alexis Lafrenière breaking out and explains some of the more surprising goalie performances around the league this season. Finally, on the Oilers' and Flames' sudden turnarounds and how their upswings have changed the trade market landscape.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome back into the national edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne, always brought to you by Bet365. Also on the program, Steve Valliquette will join us, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG. Rangers off and running. Class of the East so far hard to argue to the uh sabers last night plenty to get into happens including uh with uh valley we'll talk about the the pat kane experience in new york and what he expects out of pat kane after surgery

with the detroit red wings jonathan quick, I had his career dead and buried. I got to admit it. And it's making me look bad. H-O-F, baby. Let's give you the legends. Legends always have a late career flourish. All right. The whole hockey world still buzzing over Corey Perry and the Chicago Blackhawks.

Yeah, that's the right word. The Blackhawks put Perry on waivers for the purpose of terminating his contract. In a statement today, the Blackhawks said that he engaged in conduct that is unacceptable and in violation of both the terms of his standard players contract and the Blackhawks' internal policies intended to promote professional and safe work environments. I think that is an important part of the statement, Kip. Intended to promote professional and safe work environments. As far as next moves are concerned,

nothing yet out of the NHL Players Association. That's one of the places that I think Corey Perry would go first. Nothing official out of them yet. But it's my understanding that they're following up this matter with him as we speak. And still reviewing everything. And we don't know whether or not there could be a potential for a grievance. If Perry believes he has been unjustifiably terminated,

$4 million contract, you can see a guy fighting for that. If he feels like he has a case, if he feels like there's been wrongdoing on the part of the chicago blackhawks we don't know anything what we do know is uh it's been a train wreck from the moment they announced that uh he left the team with a train wreck little details and as i said to you in the first hour that we can easily revisit here, just there was any type of information that they could provide to have avoided the media, the social media circus, including dragging in innocent people like your star player,

Connor Bedard and his family. They should have gone to great lengths to protect him a lot better. And there's no, there's nothing foolproof here, right? But wouldn't it taken great lengths, small lengths would have been, hey, here's what we're doing. Here's what we lengths would have been hey here's what we're doing here's what we think may have happened here's what we're investigating right i think if they would have mentioned that there is a an investigation earlier that there's no way that they were going to conceal that information much longer than a few days. So why not come clean right away and say that there's an investigation going on

and no other players are involved and we're doing our due diligence. Even, listen, we're not stupid people. We know they feel like they've been burned in the past. They don't want to go, they're overly protective now. But isn't that backwards? The idea're overly protective now, which is okay. But isn't that backwards? The idea was to be transparent, and that would help.

But it's okay to be overly protective as long as you are not letting things get away from you, like the fact that, you know, Conor Bedard's family's got to deal with stupid stuff here and that ain't it that's not what happened here the garbage that's out there that you know is as far as everything anyone i know has heard that is not the case and so to to have spared him that it certainly would have been a you know he's a guy you got to be looking out for so uh obviously you're a you you have it from the beginning like how the team handled it um i am curious to see you know there has to be significant

grounds to terminate a contract you can't just say we don't like what you've done you know we don't like what you've done off the ice or whatever and say okay we're gonna not pay you the four million we owe you like he may have had to have done something where they can say here's an event or an incident or a thing we can clearly point to and say that crosses the moral boundary that you know is in the contract again we're we're just speculating here we have no idea legitimately don't know but you're right we're guessing there. There is that fine line of where it got crossed and whether or not that's enough to terminate somebody. So again, without having any details on anything,

my next question is, will we see a third party in this story somehow down the road well i think we're gonna get some answers right now kip okay let's go to kyle davidson general manager of the chicago blackhawks uh dealing with the cory perry situation I'm not going to get into further details. Is the league involved? As soon as you heard about it? The league was understanding of the situation, as was the players' union. All parties are informed.

But again, team incident, and so it was a team decision. How did this come to the attention of the team? Was this something that happened in a team environment or was it outside there? Yeah, just given it's an individual personnel matter, I'm not going to get into specifics. When did you guys notify the team? Pardon? When did you guys notify the team, your players, that you were going to release Corey? I met with the team today to update them on our decision.

So it was today. What was their reaction? I just kind of listened. What was your reaction to having this happen and obviously trying to come again? Just a bit of your reaction to... Yeah, you know, it's obviously been very tough. Yeah, it's been a tough couple of days. I know you guys have worked hard to kind of set a new culture here.

Does that make it even more tough to kind of follow? I think more than anything, it reinforces the resolve we have to change the culture and make sure we're doing the right things and upholding our values and making sure that we continue to build a culture of accountability. I think that's kind of my thoughts on it. Is it possible where the new reporting processes and everything you've implemented in the past few years

were able to make a difference in this regard? I believe so, yes. wasn't everything you've implemented in the past few years more able to make a difference in this regard? I believe so, yes. Corey was brought in to set an example, to be a model, to teach the young guys how to be a pro. How much more disappointing does it make it when something like this happens? Obviously, it's tough. It adds another layer.

Did it show you another side of his character that you weren't expecting to see or didn't job with your background in Tell Me. Certainly didn't mesh with the

background we received. This was a work the background we received. How does one confirm law enforcement was not involved in this? This was a workplace matter. Kind of going on Ben's question, the fact that somebody did report and feel confident enough to speak forward, does that give you confidence in the way things are being operated now in terms of matters of this session? You know, I think I'd rather just reserve comment on that. Thanks, Joe.

Is this something that you need to address? Given, you know, what his stature was even this soon in the locker room, do you need to address the team at a later point to kind of explain what happened? And going further with your decision, given that he was brought in as a supposed locker room leader and he does speak to the team culture. I'm very confident in the locker room and their resilience. Obviously, it's a tough day. But we'll continue to communicate with our players, and we'll go forward from there.

Do the players know exactly what happened? The players do not have any details at all. Do you feel like the absence of a detailed explanation has led to a lot of speculation about what it could be? I mean, to put it bluntly, a lot of people don't grant the Blackhawks the benefit of the doubt, given the whole college situation. To be honest, Phil, I think over the last 24 hours, what's gone on has been very disturbing. And I feel like I'm wearing it.

I'm carrying that. It's just tough to see. Yeah, it's tough to see. Yeah. Do you wish you would clarify it sooner, given what was said about it? You know what? I think we went through the process as quickly as we could in order to run a responsible investigation. What kind of backing or counsel did you get from Danny and or Jamie?

You know, I think I'd just rather leave that internal. Thank you. Will this investigation lead to any kind of internal changes in the procedure or any other additional safeguards for your employees? You know, I think it's so fresh that we'll get through today, and I'm sure we'll continue to always evaluate. The one thing, it goes without saying, whether it's after something comes up or not, you're always trying to get better.

You're always trying to improve. And so I don't see why that wouldn't be the case. We're always looking to be better than we were the day before. Were you able to conduct your investigation using exclusively internal resources, or did you use some kind of an outside? It's an internal matter. Have you had conversations with Corey to get his side, and can you say what his response was either to

the findings of the investigation or to your decision? Yeah, I'm not going to get into the details of our conversations. Being that Perry was an assistant captain, are there going to be any other changes or anyone taking on his

role as an assistant captain? Unclear at this time. All right. Thanks, Kyle. Thank you. Thanks, Kyle. That was the voice of the general manager of the Chicago Blackhawks, Kyle Davidson.

On the Corey Perry situation, I got nothing out of that. Holy unexpected tone, though. You didn't get something out of that part yeah i i get that part but i'm just i'm beyond that i i what what purpose was that other than a 35 year old guy that looks way over his head in that press conference he what did you what did you get out of that he just came we were came to it just a little bit late but the first thing he said when he first got up to the podium was it does not involve any players or their family and he calls it frankly disgusting okay hey kyle yeah where was that like five days ago yeah okay so what i took away from that

you know where he's near tears for the entire thing and the line where he says he feels to me without the direct quote he feels like he's put this on conor bedard that's what i take away from that press conference that he feels response he says i feel like i'm wearing it was what he said that does me no good well i don't care it it almost sounds like some accountability did he mention conor bedard's name that i missed no well he did say player's family and i think he's pretty clearly speaking to the rumor that's online and everywhere you know he said i just saw a guy that's way over his head there i wouldn't have had him on there i wasn't ready to do that. I would agree that did not look comfortable. Okay.

I don't know. I mean, does he have the life experience to go and handle something like that? Is that your $2 billion, $3 billion team? You want that guy up there? I was, you know, I guess another takeaway is it makes it feel like a much bigger deal than I thought this was. Do you know what I mean? Like it feels like you wouldn't go up there if Corey Perry, I don't know.

I don't know. Approach someone, you know, in the workplace or something. And it, it makes it feel like something drastic happened. That is a dire tone for repress. I don't know what happened.

No, I get that. But that didn't do anything to alleviate the fears that this is a small thing we should move on from, guys. We didn't like his behavior. We're moving on with the Blackhawks. That felt like, what is happening? That man looked, like I said, not ready to address the media.

Someone asked him. That, to me, looks, everything we got out of that, the Kyle Beach fiasco. Yes. Was that conference, that press conference right there. That conference should have been for that. They're no better equipped for PR disasters than they were. No. A while ago.

No, I guess you can argue that you put a very real person with real emotions out there, which is better than a PR spin maybe. And just look like you've been hit by a truck. It just, there was a lot of gravitas. Gravitas? Gravitas. Anyway, to that, to me, that was strange. You know, one of the things someone said is, is it tough?

You know, you brought Corey Perry in to be a role model. Does this, does that make this harder? And he was like, he could barely talk. And it was just like, you know, that that makes it so much harder for him that that, he said it didn't mesh with the background they had done on Perry. So there's some implication

that Perry did something real here. Where I don't know what people thought before, but it feels like something happened. I would have had just one question for him. I would have asked him, I would have said, Conor Bedard's family has been dragged through the mud through this. Was there anything you could have done or said differently that could have avoided that?

How about answering that question, Kyle?yle well the question sort of got answered and he sort of asked and he sort of answered that they wanted to do their due diligence be thorough with the investigation yeah okay well i'm sure it's thorough now well You got a young kid now that might never be the same. Well, yeah, this rumor has got to the point where it's like, again, to talk about the people I'm getting texts from that have nothing to do with hockey. It's in their workplace. And now they're never going to look into follow up on this,

but Bedard's going to live with whatever it is people think. The court of public opinion on this has made a decision. And they're on to the next thing. I just think it happened. Did you get any clarity at all where this story's going? Does it end here? As far as the Chicago Blackhawks. Not only did I get none, I think it breathes some oxygen on me.

As far as the Chicago Blackhawks, is this over with? Is it done? Are we going to hear more from it? How are the flames any smaller than they were 20 minutes ago is is there a third party that will rise in this is there someone else is there someone else's story like an investigation or someone who's been involved with perry here yes that person is there perhaps there was clearly accusations yeah okay where where. Where, where did that come from? Will that surface?

Is this, as far as you're concerned, is anything around this story going to feed it? Or is this done and over with, with, with Corey's decision to, to either fight for his contract or let it go? The worst part of what just happened there in that press conference is that we're doing this. to either fight for his contract or let it go.

The worst part of what just happened there in that press conference is that we're doing this. Is that we have nothing more to go on. Nothing has really been put to bed. And so we're sitting here. I mean, I even like, am I saying anything that's like, am I liable? I don't want to speculate, but we just don't know anything. Are we going to hear like in six months or a year or 12 years from now that there was a settlement yeah i don't know that's that's a good question right like if point is we got nowhere here if we hear in in two days that cory perry's

in rehab would we be shocked i mean no but that's one of 400 outcomes i've had people right you know did he yeah i'm not concerned in saying things but i know i'm just saying though that that's where they've left us all to speculate to go you know where to work social media will take this story next to wherever because once again you guys have left it so wide open. It feels like there was some involvement with some unwilling perhaps team employee or something. I mean, that's kind of where I'm left. You're within your rights to speculate because no one wants to give any type of answer

other than, you know, looking like a deer looking at headlights. Yeah, and that's how you end up with the line looking like a deer looking at headlights. Yeah. And that's how you end up with the line in the statement that is, you know, he violated the Blackhawks internal policies intended to promote professional and safe work environments. Yeah. Okay. So,

but, but keep buying tickets. Yeah. Jeez. So anyway, I don't think Corey Perry is going to turn up on your favorite team yeah i would agree you know as much as a lot of people are like ah this could be a you know pretty useful player anyway you know what we have someone else who could weigh on it if you're sick of hearing

our voices all right the goalie guru steve aliquette, MSG. The number one ranked guest of Real Kipper and Bourne. I don't know if I want to weigh in on this stuff, boys. You don't have to, man. We have no answers. I assure you, you can't do any worse than us. Oh, man. Yeah. I don't want to even take a stab at it.

Talk about the Rangers then. Let's do that. We're going with the class of the East. Do I say do I dare say it's the New York Rangers Valley? Well, you know what happened was

Saturday they beat the Boston Bruins. They were up by two. They spat back the lead. It's 2-2. The Rangers just always seem to find a way to win this year. It's not to say that they're the best team on paper, and I think they're the contender out of the East, but they care, and they care deeply.

And what happened Saturday at Madison Square Garden after they beat the Bruins was I think they sent a message to the league. It sends a ripple effect through the league. Everybody takes notice. They're public enemy number one now, I think, and everybody's going to be gunning for them but the one thing that i had to really digest last night after they lost the sabers was you have to lose games and you're not going to win them all we always say that but it's typically about a 2022 loss season that a Stanley Cup winner will experience and maybe the Boston Bruins didn't lose enough last year and that's why they lost in the first round to Florida they only lost 12 games in regulation

Colorado two years ago they lost 19 games in regulation and last season Vegas lost 22 games but then I'm trying to take a soft approach to the loss last night and Henrik and I are talking about it on the post game but it's it's more like what kind of games do you want to lose do you want to lose to the teams that you're supposed to beat or do you want to lose to the other top guns in the league and then run a narrative of well you can't beat the Dallas's or you know the other top teams in the league and then run a narrative of, well, you can't beat the Dallas's or, you know, the other top teams in the NHL that are maybe seemingly contenders right now. So that's just the tough part. I think right now with where they are. So what is it that's gone? Right. You know,

I don't think that many people had them as the, you know, president's trophy favorite heading into the season. I know early in the season, we talked to you with you and you talked about Lafreniere who has eight goals in 20 games. I don't know if his play matches up with that, but something's going right here for the Rangers. What are those things?

Well, I think that as far as Lafreniere's case, I know we talked about it. I think the last time I was talking to you guys about it actually was the home opener and he scored. And what happened about two weeks ago was pretty neat. Playing against Columbus, he had a really nice goal the second period. He's on the ice at the six on five at the end of the game, and he scores.

He ties up the game. They go into a shootout. He scores again on a backhand move. So he essentially gets three goals in the game. And for the last two weeks, he's just been humming. He's getting plenty of scoring chances so uh that's the one area of expertise that i really look at is how many high danger scoring chances is he getting and uh is he able to finish on those and it matches up he's getting

his chances uh he's playing with trocek and panarin and that line's been buzzing it's been their best line so yeah lafreniere has been a bright spot it looks like Kako is going to be out for a while he got injured badly last night against the Sabres and outside of that the young guys it's kind of been tough this year heel's been out it I think it's a concussion but it's just an upper body injury he's going to be out long-term IR but the defense has been terrific from everybody even picking up after Fox has been out. They've had a great run of eight games, missing Fox. The team hasn't missed a beat.

Trouba's been a rock back there. The goaltending's been exceptional. Really, everybody's playing well. It's one of those cases where everybody's playing well and everybody's really bought into what Peter Labulette is selling. And if there's one thing that I'm thinking a lot about now, guys, and I know that you're there too with the Toronto Maple Leafs, it's what are the characteristics of a winning team and how can we learn from the winners of the previous five years?

What are those characteristics and what are we missing and can we put those pieces together? And the only issue I have with the Rangers right now is they're still not defending enough off the rush chances against the high danger rush chances against uh they still rank in the 20s and you can't win a stanley cup there i've done a lot of i spent my whole day i mean i'm out of my mind from just the amount of computer time i had today in my office, trying to look for these things because you know what it is too. I started with this organization as an analyst, guys, 10 years ago.

And that was when the Rangers were at the height of their power. They won the President's Trophy in 2015 and lost in the Eastern Conference Final to Tampa. And then the next year they lost in the first round to Pittsburgh. That was a tough one. But then they had like a full run it back reset then the next year they lost in the first round to Pittsburgh. That was a tough one. But then they had like a full run it back reset for the next year and they lost in the second round to Ottawa. And then before you know it you're in 2018 and the rebuild begins.

So I've seen it. I've seen them at the top. I've seen them have to tear it down. I've seen them have to covet the draft picks and draft. And I've talked about prospects for four years as they missed the playoffs. And now the contention window is open again. So it's been bizarre that way. It's been a 10-year cycle that I've really been there for every step of the way. And now my research has changed from prospects and forecasting and selling hope to what does it take to win? We're talking to Steve Vallecat, analyst with the New York Rangers on MSG Valley.

We saw the New York Rangers take a chance on Pat Kane last trade deadline. And today we saw him sign a one-year deal in Detroit. Just talk to us a little bit on that experience on whether or not you can look back and say definitively that was a good gamble or a bad gamble. You just recently spoke moments ago about the thought of getting somebody or more defensive help. That's certainly not Kane. So we can't expect another search for a Patrick Kane type of player

out of the New York Rangers? No. You know what happened? I think Kipper, it was about getting Panarin people around him that were going to help him learn the playoff style. And I thought of it that way. They brought in Tarasenko. That's a close friend of his.

It was nice to have somebody around him that could mentor him, somebody that's won. And then when Kane really pursued the Rangers, they looked at it as an opportunity to get Patrick Kane and not pay a lot for him. And, again, it was somebody that had a lot of previous history with Panarin to help him. And Panarin, you know, he'll tell you,

he failed miserably last year in the playoffs, and there's been a few seasons there for him where he's done that and that's why he's on a mission this year he's a completely different player i'm always looking at how often he gets between the dots and either sends a teammate with a primary pass into a scoring opportunity or when he shoots it himself and his numbers right now are twice at where he was last year he's inside on everything at five on five he's inside and his shot I don't really look at the measurement of the shot too often but my eye test says it's coming off his stick much harder and so to me I think last year

that was a little bit of a misguided approach getting Kane although it was the effort I think for Panarin because Kane wasn't going to help you on the four check and that's what the Rangers needed more of he wasn't going to get you more rebounds the Rangers needed more of that this year the team they just look like a completely different team the players the game that this the game style that they're playing and their record reflects that I mean 15-4-1 only four regulation losses this year it's uh well it's tops in the league right they're tied with boston with 31 points so who else in that division is good you know i'm looking at the at the metro the capitals are in second um and i got my questions about them the canes are in third which i'm going by points percentage this is the actual point total. But, you know, then it's Islanders, Flyers, Devils, and Penguins are scuffling.

Who else is good there? Well, like, this is one thing I'm having a hard time with is that everybody's the same to me this year. I said the same thing. Yep. Yeah. So, and what's the separator, right? And the goaltending that teams have right now, I don't know if you guys looked at this recently, but the safe percentage in the NHL is 903.

Coming out of the 05 lockout, it was 901. We haven't seen it this low before. When I started working at this job 10 years ago, it was 914, 950, and we were talking about bringing the pads in and so what i'm seeing night after night fellas is that whoever wins the high danger scoring battle wins the game because all the goalies are about the same and there's a lot of goalies in the league right now that shouldn't be in the league and it's because of a couple of factors it's because too many 60 70 game eaters from five years ago are no longer playing and nobody's getting the 200 minor league or european games before they play in the nhl like henrik lungquist played 236 games in europe before

he ever stepped on the ice at madison square garden that's why he was able to take the job right away and another thing too is the 0405 lockout a lot of really good goalies stayed for an extra year of seasoning in the ahl like r Ryan Miller, and the list goes on and on. I mean, you forget how these guys come through, but even a guy like Tuka Rask or Corey Crawford, Jimmy Howard, all of these guys, they were all the number ones. They were all true number ones, but they all played over 200 games in the minors or Europe

before they ever stepped foot in the NHL. And right now, I can tell you just from watching high danger chances, they go in typically one every three times. Well, they're even going in more frequently than that right now, and there's not a big divide from the top to the bottom. It's like everybody's letting them up. So the Rangers, they've played 20 games this year. Only five times have they lost the high danger scoring chance battle,

and they've got only four losses on the season. And it really reflects them just out-chancing everybody. Shusterkin's been really no better than anybody else either. Okay. You mentioned looking completely different. Jonathan Quick, he's making me look like a complete moron because I thought his... That makes two of us.

I thought it was done. Yeah, I did too. So this is one thing that's kind of bothered me is keeping goalie data. So I know that I can measure who's playing well, who's playing poorly, but why is it not reflecting year over year? For the last three years, Quick has been at the bottom of the bottom third, and I expected that to continue because what happened in the past

can only reflect what's going to happen in the future, except we're not seeing it with the goalies. We're not seeing Philip Gustafson carry a really good season into the next or a Markstrom from one year to the next, and I can go down the list. Yuzi Saros is last in our goalie rating right now. I can't explain that.

He's been in the top three for the last three years. And it bothers me to the core because, you know, you watch these guys and you're trying to understand them, but the one thing we can't understand is what's happening between their ears. Where is their motivation? And their motivation tightens their focus focus whether it's a career year or coming back to answer now the one thing about quick and kipper you're gonna like this one because this is benoit allaire and i and i know him as well as anybody and henrik and i talk about a lot he is the master of positioning now if you

take a guy that's got three stanley cups he's won internationally and he's in his late 30s it takes a lot to listen because you you want to keep doing it your way we're very stubborn and what benoit does is he protects you against yourself and jonathan quick is playing pretty much exclusively in the blue ice right now and if you watch any of his games from la over the last three years he was out in the white ice right now. And if you watch any of his games from LA over the last three years, he was out in the white ice, 50, 60% of the game. This was bothering me. So I went back and watched his game a few weeks ago against Edmonton.

He faced 27 shots in that game. And I watched every one of them just to see where his feet were. He came out of the blue ice once at home, came down the middle and he stepped out and made a glove save in the white ice, and he had to there. It was a one-on-one play. But of the 27 shots he faced in Edmonton, he only had one outside in the white ice, 26 shots from the blue.

So I thought that was really interesting, and that really speaks to him buying in to what Benoit Allaire does and what he preaches. Go ahead there, Kippy. Okay. Cam Talbot, like seriously, what is going on here? Between the Rangers, LA, I mean, Cam Talbot's another guy. Okay. So, again, I told you guys, I've been in my office all day.

This call putting me out, okay? But it's fresh. So the best team in the nhl and it's by a large margin at defending against high danger chances at five on five off the rush against is la they're in another stratosphere and it's it's kind of neat because when you look at the numbers and you're trying to say for every 48 minutes they play at five on five how many chances they give up how many the leafs give up how many are the Rangers giving up the difference between where the Rangers are in the Leafs and they're in the same neighborhood compared to number one LA Kings is uh 28 goals over the course of 82

game season so what does that mean and why is like why is that important to me because the last five stanley cup winners have all finished in the top five in that stat and if you're in the top 16 you're always going to make the playoffs so i'm looking for these predictive measures and the really neat thing is and this is what i really believe in right now coaches that can get their teams to buy into defending they are the winning teams. And here's what I mean by that. Go back to when Tampa Bay had their best season points-wise and they lost to Columbus in the first round. In that stat, Tampa Bay was 27th in the league.

That was their one flaw on their team. They gave up a lot off the rush. High-quality chances, breakaways, two-on-ones, because they were running up ice. The very next year, they were lot off the rush, high quality chances, breakaways, two on ones because they were running up ice. The very next year, they were second in the league and then they won and then they won again. Vegas, I got it right here. Vegas, two years ago, went from 20th to fourth last year. Colorado, two years ago, they went from 12th to second.

So it's almost like they go through, we're going to do it our way, the players, and then they finally buy in when the coaches are able to get them to defend the right way and not have too much unnecessary risk off the rush so that it's not going back the other way to hurt you. I love that you did all this work just for our show today. This is great content that I didn't have to mine. What a treat. No, no. Listen, I'm old school, but I love that you did all this work just for our show today. This is great content that I didn't have to mind. What a treat.

Listen, I'm old school, but I love that stuff. What a treat. Great stuff. And I think it's the coaches that can get these guys to buy into it. Like, imagine if we were betting on that series, Tampa Bay-Columbus. I would have taken Columbus based on this because they were ninth. They were a top ten defending team off the rush that year and tampa bay was clearly flawed but we can only look back and history can help us and i'm again the reason why i'm into this is because i think new york is close i think

they're close so i'm excited about doing research this way a couple years ago we'd be talking about prospects that uh i'm sick of talking to prospects. Listen, I, you know, when I play it, sometimes I'd look at the coach and just say, shut up and just push Mark Messier and Brian Leach. Just tap the good guys in the shoulder.

And then it's like, nah, there's more to that. When you start watching from afar again, Valley, great stuff, man. We so appreciate you on this show. You're welcome at any time.

Hey, fellas. My pleasure. Thanks for the call. Keep it up. Appreciate it, Valley. Thanks. The Valley Cat does an amazing job for the New York Rangers on MSG. And amazing stuff for us. See, the whole time I'm going useful, useful, useful.

Not useless. He's got useful info. And every once in a while i listen to you it's like useless useless useless no not no you're right though okay we're gonna take a break we're gonna take a break and then we got uh we got sammy coming back for game time and we'll get into a few other things including the best game of the season i watched last night and who wants out of columbus we'll tell you that after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born.

Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. we are back nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee all right gonna hit us with a little game time sammy the app the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. And a couple things I'm looking at for tonight. Leafs Panthers. I know it's a big one for us. But I'm just looking at the number here. And the Leafs are pretty heavy favorites tonight. Minus 135. Classics.

Decent team on home ice. Against a team on the second half of back-to-back plus 115 money line for the florida panthers i gotta tell you right now tempting you know you just never get a good number on the leafs though like minus 130 to win at home they're pretty good team i don't hate the number i see what you're saying though florida been a better team this season you're getting underdog money i see the bet they probably don't like the toronto maple leafs a whole lot they'd like to prove that they can beat them again after beating them earlier in the year so that's one that i'm looking at and i'm also looking at the winnipeg jets on home ice as under that well

they're plus 100 a little bit of underdogs on home ice they've been really good and uh they're playing the d Stars tonight. But I like the Winnipeg Jets, who we never talk about on this show, but just keep humming along. Good measuring stick tonight game for the Jets, who are quietly top 10 team in the National Hockey League. Yeah. No, for sure.

Kyle Conner has been lighting it up. I also, a couple I like there, Sammy. Oh, yeah, we got. Carolina and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is way down in that Metro standings. They're 500 by record or whatever, but they're like a plus 11 or something. They're much better than their record.

They're going to start winning some games. It is really interesting that the projection on making the playoffs in the East could be as much as 12 or 14 points more. Yeah, like we're talking, it might be a 100-point cutoff in the East, and it might be 90 or 89 or something. Low 80s right now.

Someone said low 80s yesterday. I was like, low 80s? What do you mean low 80s? Brian Lawton mentioned low 80s. 83, 84 right now. That's not going to stay. No, it's not. But if you were to say in Alberta,

you would care a great deal about a potentially lower entry to playoffs, given a slow start. And that was Game Time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

Speaking of which, Calgary Flames last night with an overtime win over vegas i called it the best game i watched all season you loved it yeah i loved it what did you love about it uh intense i thought that uh the compete level on both sides was almost of equal value i was prime yeah i watched some and the goaltending on both sides was almost of equal value. I was primed. Yeah, I watched some. And the goaltending on both sides was fantastic. Yeah, and Kadri, good night for him. Like, he looks like he's finding it.

Saw him controlling the middle of the ice, handling the puck, gaining blue lines, instrumental in the goal that tied it up by Greer. Ladar gets the win and his backup last night was a man named Dusty Nickel. Dusty Nickel. He was named after his total NHL earnings

in his life. He has earned one Dusty Nickel. Tell me he doesn't sound like a country music star. Dusty Nickel. He sounds like an AI-generated country singer. I played with a few teammates that had dusty wallets. Well, I bet you old Dusty Nickel, when he's around, NHL players have a pretty dusty wallet, too. Not pulling that thing out with the boys around.

But for a guy that wasn't supposed to play in FlaDAR, he was, like was all world. All good. All world. You know what's funny is I had tweeted out the Flames schedule, like murderer's row of teams. They've done well. They've done well.

They've got a couple tough wins. They beat the Stars 7-4. They beat the Golden Knights 2-1. They have the Stars again this week, but after that, they get the Canucks in the wild. There's a chance for them here to maybe say, God, are we really out of it? Are we a playoff team? They're in the last playoff spot currently.

They're holding the last wildcard spot. And I will admit something to you, Barney, and I know, Kipper, you've been on the side. Let's have it. I feel pretty dumb about the Oilers. Like, the Oilers are probably going to make it. Where are you? Yeah. You know, like, I am feeling stupid that I'm being Mr. Hot Take, but look about the Oilers. Like, the Oilers are probably going to make it. Where are you? Yeah. You know, like, I am feeling stupid that I'm being Mr. Hot Take,

but look at the standings. There are some goals that I still watch. Skinner, like. They're six points back. Anaheim was. Poopy teams. God awful, but. It's your language.

They had a. I'm sorry. Anaheim had a 2-1 lead before they lost, I think, A-2. Before the Conard.McDavid show started. On Skinner. You had to actively get out of the way, like matrixing a bullet. Which one? It went under his pad.

It was a spanking fire. Not even five hole. No, the pad hole. The pad hole. He went through a physical object to go in. He got out of the way. You have to get out of the way to not be able to stop that one. Yeah, it's like the game before he had a shutout.

Does that worry you just a little bit? Yes, it worries me. Like they can't win a cup with a goalie playing like that. But again, shutout game before, shut it down after that. That's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about the cup. Right. You're comfortable with them making the playoffs as is with Skinner

or either Jack Campbell back up or but by points percentage the the second wild card spot belongs to the 10 and 10 Nashville Predators so who they're five points behind like they're better than that team they're just better than all these teams in their way so they're gonna get there yeah I am comfortable saying that. I've been saying that. I know, and I really just had the realization when I looked at the standings, the flames are in there. Flames are there. They're right there.

It kind of kills our fun conversations about Leafs trading for Sadorov. This is the issue. Because they're in it now. Tanev hurts. They're contending. I think they are a good example of teams not panicking. Yeah. Two weeks ago, blow it up.

Get rid of everybody. No good. And now it's a different tune. And does some of the things get revisited, including Hannafin, who apparently was fairly close to a contract. And then wasn't. And then wasn't.

Like, where are you on that? Do you just leave as is and see where they are two weeks from now, a month from now, January, March? They've bought themselves time. That's for sure. But like if you're Hannah Finn, I don't understand how you would look at such short-term results and say,

this is affecting where I'm going to commit the rest of my life to. Like the guys they have are the guys they have. You either think this group is near competitive or not. And these short-term results shouldn't impact that to me. He's got to make a decision based on a much broader amount of information than how they play the next month. Huberto, though, still one point in his last five. You know, is there an element of you that goes,

okay, if he finds it, you know, maybe there's even more here. I think there just needs... One point in his last four, my bad. I just think there has to be a new bar for him. You just don't think he's as good? The 115-point bar that he had in Florida is gone forever. Can it not be a 50-point bar, though? Yes.

Can it be 82? 80 would be really good. Give me 80. For 10-5, give me 80. Yeah, I think that's a new bar. Yeah. Okay. Well, he's not there yet. Not yet. He's short of that. Okay. Reading the Daily Face

Off, Tyler Cushy, if I'm hopefully pronouncing that correctly, wrote an article on... What is it? Cooley? I don't know. I don't know either, but he is writing about Chinnikov in Columbus is unhappy with his standing on the team.

Yeah, his agent was telling somebody from the dispatch in Columbus that he doesn't feel that they trust him and he wants to leave. He wants to leave, correct. I would like to not be a part of this. Can anybody stand up and say, I like here i want to say chinikov was a first rounder was he not like just a few years ago a surprise first rounder as some of our sn staff will tell you and it was like i'm sorry who'd they draft but you know he's a right winger he's behind patrick line a and marchenko it's not i don't know they're coming off a big win. Yeah, and he's still set

to hell with this. Right. I don't want to do this anymore. Beating the Boston Bruins, who've lost three in a row. You know, this is... Guys are... I mean, he's played 104 games. He's got 31 points in his career. Are you... Should you be demanding a trade?

I actually like this question. I think he's fine to do that. Okay, but at what point is a demand a trade and you like this question it's like i think he's fine to do that okay but at what point it's like demand a trade and you're gonna go light it up somewhere like kind of are what you are buddy maybe you're on the third line for a reason yeah i think you're probably right but i don't know he's with his rights to say i want more opportunity i'm not sold on you are what you are at age 21 22 22 yep no too early for me. Yeah. And I don't know the player well enough to tell you that he's going to be a lot better somewhere else, but it just seems it's easier to ask for these type of demands than it was certainly 10 or 15 years ago. That's when it was like, just shut up and play.

I totally think the NBA has done NHL players a lot of good. Because they're saying, you know, guys want out all the time in the NBA, and they force their trades. And 32 teams, if you want to be somewhere else, I don't think it's impossible. It's unreasonable to say they want to be somewhere else. I mean, it seems to be a bit of a trend with the old jackets there, though. They have a tough time keeping guys, which, by the way, is how you end up with guys like Goudreau and Line A.

And you say, well, they have some issue, but we'll take them. Here, take Dubois, we'll take Line A. Goudreau wants to sign here. Who cares if it's a fit? We just need players. It's kind of what happens. How's little Johnny Goudreau doing out there? I don't know.

11 points in 23 games for Johnny Goudreau so far this season. Sammy, do you feel better about the Boston Bruins kind of stinking? Yeah. Three straight losses for the Bruins. Well, I mean, they weren't going to light it up every game. But they lost to Columbus last night. And I think they lost to the Rangers, which is always a tough game.

And they lost to the Red Wings for the last three that they've lost. So two teams in there there's no shame in losing two. But you don't want to get starched by the Jackets for sure. But, yeah, I would have eventually thought they were going to come back down to hurt by hope but last year they never came within striking distance so maybe this will bring them back to the pack a bit all right good show today guys yeah i want to dedicate today's show to the life of george cohan who passed away peacefully on the weekend known by millions as the co-founder of mcdonald's Canada, but known to a few of us, including the privilege of my wife and I

knowing him as a true friend. So rest in peace, George. Ten games on tap tonight, including four here in Canada, the Leafs, Winnipeg Oilers, and the Vancouver Canucks do battle tonight, and we will be here tomorrow to talk all about them. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Give us

a rating and review if you get a chance. We'd love to hear from you.