Real Kyper & Bourne - Day Off Reflection

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

It's a day off in Leafs Land and Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with confidence checks for tomorrow's Game 4 against the Panthers, the idea of 'playing for pride,' potential line combinations and revisit some of the difference-making plays of Game 3. They are joined by NBC Sports Chicago's Charlie Roumeliotis (20:55), who discusses the Blackhawks winning last night's draft lottery, how it changes the team's plans and expectations for Connor Bedard's rookie season in the Windy City. Next up, TNT's Eddie Olczyk weighs in on how the game changes from the regular season to playoffs, great being the enemy of good and looks at some of the more impressive and surprising playoff performances around the league (46:56). Finally, the Daily Faceoff's Mike McKenna shares some insight into Joseph Woll's upside, the pressure on him in Game 4, Bobrovsky's hot stretch, how the Leafs can do a better job of putting pressure on him and Matt Murray's fall from grace (1:07:15). The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. It's the second of a day off for the Toronto Maple Leafs as they prepare to extend the series in the National Hockey League playoffs. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, David Siss, Boomba, Sammy McKee. Wherever you are watching or listening, live on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, our YouTube channel at Sportsnet, Sportsnet Now, iTunes, Spotify. We are glad you are aboard. Good show today as we prepare.

Yeah. Dust has settled a little bit. Everybody got that leaf frustration out the last 24 hours. JB, just focus now on game four, or is there more to be said? Yeah. You know, a lot of people went through the pre-grieving process. Is that what you call it? Yeah, there were some eulogies given for the Toronto Maple Leafs. When they win tomorrow night, it is going to postpone some agony for some people,

but they are going to win tomorrow. So maybe that'll be the start of some good vibes. Maybe they'll get a couple. Is this a Marc Messier guarantee from Justin Bourne? Yeah, they're going to win Wednesday. Let's have it. Marc Messier guarantee from Justin Bourne. Yeah, they're going to win Wednesday. Let's have it. Mark Messier guarantee. I would like to refer to my great friend, Paul Maurice,

when referring to today's show. If you can just listen in to what Paul Maurice had to say. This is how I feel about today. Paul, can you kind of just... Nothing has changed in 24 hours. Nothing. Just keep that in mind. Paul, what's changed in the last 24 hours exactly

so sammy nothing has changed for you in 24 hours i i i feel better today the sun is out you know this is a nice day i rode my bike in today listen ripped the homer and beer in beer league baseball last night like i'm feeling pretty good about everything in my life other than the Leafs. So, I mean, I got that. But I really don't agree with you at all, Borny, in saying that they're going to win tomorrow night. I know. The charts are out, too, Sammy. Oh, I saw the charts.

The Leafs actually have been better in terms of expected goals and all that than the last series. Everything's perfect in Leafland, didn't you know? Well, you're not analytical guy yeah yeah florida's d stinks which which one is the best for you to uh feel like they can extend this series i do think the fact that they are able to create chances against this team florida does have some weak spots sergey bobrovsky is not one of the leagues. Better goaltenders. The Leafs can score. You know, like, I think if things were to play out as I would expect them to between these two teams,

let's say the Leafs were to get a bounce in game two and it's a 2-1 series, I'd love the Leafs in this series still. So I still think they're a better team than Florida. No reason to pick the worst team to win just because they won a few in a row. Okay. Okay.

So to me, the worst case scenario for the leafs is not to get swept i i agree with this i think there's a ton to be said about saving face here tomorrow night you do do. I do. Absolutely. You want to bring it home? Bring it home. You want to lose it home? Lose it home. If there's just two scenarios for me and one is being swept or being

booed off the ice in game five for the Leafs, take the being booed on home ice. He wants it to be four. They don't want that. That's what I mean. So it's simple. They should.

They should because being swept right now is a huge difference for me than losing in game five. And I know it's for you. It's the same, but it's not for me. But he wants the simplicity of these boneheads choked and gave up because then it is clear right then it's clear to be like you got to get rid of everyone his emotions don't they get off the toilet seat right that's what that's what he wants he just wants straight end it yeah end it in misery so

i can start my 100 i can start my whatever I need to go through. And I don't fault you for that. My new therapy I need. Let the grieving begin. Right. I don't fault you for wanting that. However, a lot of people's reputations are at stake. And I understand that people, even if they win a game or two,

people are going to go, oh, well, what does it matter? You're still blah, blah, blah. But the fact is, if you roll over, it says a lot about you. I'm so with you on that. And you don't want to be the guy where people go, this guy quit. So you guys don't know enough about these guys already? I mean, there's answers to be found.

I don't know everything about them. I think I know a lot. And regardless whether you're up 3-0 or you're 3-3 in a series, there is something to be said that the fourth is always the hardest. So Florida will come out. They do not want to go back to Toronto. They want their rest. They want to focus on the next round.

They want to watch the other series, beat the crap out of each other. This one will be tough. It will take a big effort. And it will take some change. I think regardless of what you feel on a five-game win by Florida, for the Leafs to win and extend this to even five we we need to see change we need to see uh more push we need to see some pride some fight back yeah i'd like to see that tomorrow night yeah and you know if i think what some people well i'll just say sam i think what a

concern would be for sam is that you then let them off the hook this group who let you down and you say you know oh well they got one here and they could have won game two the last thing anyone wants to hear is people give excuses for the leafs falling short again they don't want to hear it right and that's fine so i think that's why the simplicity it would be desirable for some people but it's fine so i think that's why the simplicity it would be desirable for some people but it's so funny like the order you win the games in or lose them matters so much like if they win the next one they win another one they lose in six people are still going to be so pissed whereas if it was two one or two two and they end up losing in six it's

different somehow you know it's the best of seven yeah you gotta win four times and we're all on the same path if they get swept but people's perception of why they got beaten around in this round everybody could have some different takes right yeah the story's not written and you know to your point to your point yeah to your analytical point, there's something to be said that they've lost three one goal games. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

I mean, I think people are mad about game three. Montour scored the fourth, I think, on a delayed penalty. Probably, I don't know, midway through the third, maybe a little later in the third. But outside of that, we're talking about one-goal games. And dare I say this, but switch Samsonov with, I can't believe I'm saying this, with a brodsky just switched the one position and i don't know what the series looks like to you yeah i mean they're it's interesting so tonight

they're they got giordano out which you know we on this show universally like and respect mark giordano but have said he's been pretty bad in playoffs. He's out. You know, McCabe has been, you haven't liked McCabe in particular in this series. He's been bumped down to the third pair with Lilligren. Brody's playing with Justin Hall. And Riley and Shen are going to carry on as the top pair. Like they're going back to a pretty safe looking lineup.

You know, Matthews and Marner with Jarnkrok. They got Nylander with Bunting and devaras not a fan no you don't like that one i don't like any of it okay yeah that's good i'm excited about that i don't can i tell you when i look at this lineup my first thoughts yes is this is a guy that knows it's his last game coaching and he's going down with his guys that he trusts and loves i how do you how do you argue with the things you think are best sticking with i disagree with you i just think he thinks this is good enough to win and he's still wrong it's just not it's not it's not good enough and you edison you guys know how i felt about yarn crock all year long oh yeah i look at him and i said that guy is mid mid that's the best drop of the show no business starting

tomorrow night down three nothing with matthews and marner zero no chance nyes woke up like the undertaker out of the coffin this morning did he's ready to come back yeah no i know i know you don't think it fits kip but you know we have had this conversation several times where you look at their options yard i'll tell you what my options are okay okay uh you want bunty Boy up? Matthews. Throw Bunting back up there, please, with Matthews. And then Kneelander with Matthews.

Whoa. I think he's been skating well enough. I think he's the one guy that has had a few separations on the tight checking. I agree with this. And I think that right now he's my best option to open up some lanes. He can't do it physically, but I can tell you what, his edge work has been good enough that I can think he can open up some lanes for Matthews. Second line.

This is great. Ryan O'Reilly. Yep. Marner. Yeah. And Tavares. Yes, yes, yes. There. Okay? That'silly. Yep. Marner. Yeah. And Tavares. Yes, yes, yes. There.

Okay? That's it. Camp. These are the ones I made in my head this morning. Achari. And go Yarncrock. Go Kerfoot. I don't really care.

Flex Seal. What's that? Flex Seal. I love Flex Seal. Go Flex Seal. Give me one more seal camp there's your three lines and then you're on crock lafferty and you got two extra guys or three extra guys i don't know what you want to do with the fourth line or you want to go 70 i dress geo 70 i like playing ryan o'reilly with mitch marner first off they connected on a

very nice goal last game um but i like the idea of someone game two right of someone who can you know how ryan o'reilly plays recovers pucks he works he wins every puck battle he's in you know i think he can help marner get the puck more, which is going to be good for them, you know, in terms of getting him going. It's so funny that we're going back to a line of Ryan O'Reilly, Marner, and Tavares that, what was it, six weeks ago, they put up like 12 or 13 points. Yeah, that great game in Buffalo.

Right, against Buffalo. Yeah. And I don't know whether or not they have seen action together, but, like, barely. We have said that, like, it's better to go three lines deep with this team, and this kind of makes them two lines deep. But when you don't have nyes, you're two lines deep regardless. Yes.

And without nyes, you don't have a chance to have an effective third line the same way. Just play the crap out of your top six there and have the other guys kind of fill in. And Kemp seems to be fine now. Yeah, he's humming. He can buy the other two guys or two lines rest. Kipper, I know you're a very smart hockey guy and you've been in hockey your whole life.

But how does the coach the least not see this and you do? I don't understand how you can go into this game or you're already lost well you're right though sam because you got it right you got it right that he thinks this is and that's yes you know he thinks that this is his best iteration of his guys how can he like well he's a and i know he's knows these guys better than better than me but it's just i look at this lineup and you got your back against the wall you're down 3-0 and you're just doing this again? 50% of Leafs fans or more will say, how do you not play Matthews with Marner?

You have to play Matthews with Marner. No, split them up now. I think it's time to. I think it's their best chance. But that is what, you know, and I think maybe Keefe, I don't know, they're just. I think. Maybe it makes those guys happiest.

But right now. Yeah. A guy that I think can make more plays out there is Ryan O'Reilly. And I don't know. He's too buried for me in the third spot. And I think it was. What was it? Achari.

And Nyes and him were really good but before that it was uh uh no after nize went down what was it kerfoot o'reilly and what is what is what is ryan o'reilly gonna do with kerfoot yeah no you don't have much of a chance it's that's a line that kind of lacks identity. Give them Marner now and give them Tavares, and hopefully they can come up with some key plays, some goals. Make plays, too. It's not like Florida's deep. You can go two lines against them and live.

Yeah. So that's what I would have done. I like that. I wish that were happening. It is not. Well, he'll change it up 18 times. Well, that's the thing is if they're not creating offense at some point the big test is like can you get to three five games in a row stuck on two goals can you

get to three here and you got a pretty good chance but i do like the idea of like all right giordano's out you're trying a new look on the d walls in you're trying a new look in that you know you could say that things changed when joe wall went in if you're trying to new look in that, you know, you could say that things changed when Joe Wohl went in. If you're looking for a big turnaround, something to sort of be the pivot point. There you go. All he needs is just one to roll. That's it.

Why don't we listen to Paul Maurice? Paul Maurice is going to talk about limiting those Leaf stars and success they've had there. What I like is that I can truly sit up here and give you a whole bunch of different names. That Lundell line has been really good. So the change in that lineup came off the Lomberg injury prior to Game 5 of the Boston Series.

And in a very short period of time, what it's done for our hockey team has been able to us not worry about the match I'm not hiding that line and I would run them against Bergeron or Coyle or Krejci or Zaka in the middle if it's

Lundell Toronto's going to put out three pretty dominant lines if Lundell's on the ice I'm good with that match and that's. And that's a name that we don't talk about much. And I understand that too. He's a young kid that had to learn the game

over the course of the year. So he's a much better player now than he was two months or three months ago. So we aren't as deep as the teams that we've played. It's just a fact. But we got some really nice stories of guys whose names don't get out there much who've been really important to us.

Oh, thanks, Paul. Paul loved himself for coaching up Lundell this year, huh? Listen, Lundell and that Luster Reynon and Sam Reinhardt. The Leafs can't touch that third line right now. Kampf actually was their best player. Yeah. Best centerman. Reinhardt. Leafs can't touch that third line right now. Kemp actually was their best player. Best centerman in game three.

But he can't match up against that third line right now. And he's not scared to put that line up against anything that the Leafs have. I feel the same way about that line though. When they're on the ice you're not pulling anyone off because you're afraid of them.

You know, it's not. I think in game two, you know the one where Tavares pulled the Bambi behind the net? Mm-hmm. Remember that? Yeah. It stemmed off a bad pinch by Giordano. Yep.

Putt goes into the corner. Bad reverse by Lilligren. Yeah. It was less of a reverse for me than Lilligren worrying about getting hit. Yeah. Okay. So you take it. No.

Yeah. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. And that was, I think, that was the Lindell goal. Right? Yep. Big goal. That's where that third line is still harder than the Leafs' third line.

With all due respect to that line, that's not to me, you know, Lilliger going, ah, it's Anton Lindell. It's a player. No, it's a 6'2 guy coming in really hard. Yeah, I agree with that. Just eat the puck. That's where you just got to eat it. I mean, if he soft- chipped it the other way and he

had giordano there that that to me is a a good looking third line right now and then that overtime goal by sam reinhardt that's a great play great offensive and you know the crazy part about it for me we're not the crazy part about it but what shows the the iq of a sam reinhardt is i'd say nine out of ten guys would have stuffed it short side, and Wall was there. But he actually anticipates that Wall's going to be so good and so fast to the short side, he waits him out and goes five hole in the middle of the net. Yeah.

You know, it's a great play. You know, that's a really nice wrap to the middle of the net. I saw McKenna will talk to him about how he should have been reverse VH instead of what he did there. But I feel like we have given, we are playing the results in some cases with praise for Florida. Like, you know, my one regret from yesterday's show is not challenging you more on Barkov, who is baby soft and has eight PIMS on the year.

Couldn't disagree with you more. He hasn't hit a soul. He is not a physical player. He is a horse. No. That guy goes into the own zone, and he has three guys on his back, and he's scaring it. We do not agree.

Anyway, it's that. It's, you know, like talking about Lundell and Listerine, and like this to me is on the lease for not playing well enough. I don't think Florida's doing's, you know, like talking up Lundell and Listerine and like, this to me is on the lease for not playing well enough. I don't think these, I don't think Florida's doing anything, you know, otherworldly or has some sort of set of personnel. You know, we talked about this team in December and you and I both scooped heaps of dirt on the corpse of a team we thought was no good. It's the same team.

Yeah, but they're hot. They're playing better. They're playing better. There's. Yeah, but they're hot. They're playing better. They're playing better. There's no doubt. They're playing harder. They're playing better. Whether it was Paul Maurice challenging them or Matthew Kachuk's dad challenging them, the switch went off on these guys.

And they're just playing harder. Yeah. Right? They have that element. There's no doubt it's a part of their game. And it's something that has been a major problem for the Leafs to contend with here but you know well we got we got a good show here for you Eddie Olchuk's gonna join us uh in about uh 35 minutes Mike McKenna of course daily face-off hockey analyst done a terrific job all season long he's gonna we're gonna touch on

Joseph Wall getting the start tonight or tomorrow night and what that means we saw conor bedard end up being a chicago blackhawk last night charlie rue meliosis roomily roomily artist room uhiotis. I thought you were a Greek camper. You can't make that one. We're trying. It's a lot of letters. Rumeliotis. Opa. Lavendi. Nice Greek boy. Yeah. We'll get his takes.

That's great. Blackhawks insider for NBC. Opa. There you go. He's going to join us to give us his thoughts on chicago and i i wasn't expecting that much backlash on people being sour about chicago finding a way to end up with connor bedard but it is uh it's kind of vicious out there for them well they they're fine for the role in the Kyle Beach scandal was 2 million. And last night they generated 5.2 million in new season ticket purchases. So I think people were fine.

There's a bit of an injustice, but okay. Let's find out from Charlie. Rumeliotis. How's that pronunciation, Charlie? I thought, I thought you were going to greek on me i don't

know about yotti okay give me an oppa there derrick there you go how are you charlie how are we doing guys big night last night huh oh huge night and you know what you bought everybody a break off the leafs that That's what Chicago did for us. Well, you know what, too? If Florida completes the series win over Toronto, that means the Blackhawks, the Tampa Bay first-round pick, is going to go from 20 to 19. So Chicago might get luck in that department, too.

Okay, where are the vibes in the hockey world over this? Are a lot of people upset somehow, someway Chicago got rewarded after everything we've watched them in the last, what, few years? Yeah, I think it's twofold. Obviously, the off-the-ice stuff, I guess I can't really speak on because it feels more like a league issue. Like if, you know, if people feel like the Blackhawks should have been sanctioned for whatever

and then had draft picks taken away, that that's an NHL problem. That's not a Blackhawks problem, but I think where maybe the jealousy or the other part is that the Blackhawks are going from an era where they had Patrick Kane, Jonathan Taves, Duncan Keith, and now they win the lottery again, and they're going to Conor Bedard, right? It reminds me of Pittsburgh going from Mario to Sid, and you look at franchises like Anaheim and Columbus, and they haven't had that lottery luck, right?

So I think, you know, in a way, it's just kind of maybe those fan bases are a little bitter and rightfully so like i would probably feel the same way if i was there if i was a part of their fan base but that's just the way that the lottery balls bounce i guess so how does this change the plan in chicago like does this mean patrick kane would have more interest in coming back does this mean it accelerates things? What changes now? Yeah, it's a good question. I asked Kyle Davidson this yesterday immediately after the lottery show, and one thing he did say, he doesn't want this to force the Blackhawks into a position where they now have to fast-track it.

Like, if Conor Bedard elevates the group himself and the Blackhawks are competing sooner than later, that's great, but I don't think Kyle Davidson is going to go out and sign the marquee free agent to kind of fast-track this himself. I think they're going to let this happen organically, and I'm sure they'll try to put a stronger supporting cast around Conor Bedard next year, so that way he's not kind of in over his head.

But I don't think it fast-tracks it in a sense that the Blackhawks are going to themselves fast-track it. I think they're going to let Conor Bedard maybe dictate how much this gets fast-tracked. How surprised were you that, well, the five million bucks, the almost 2,000 season ticket holders, was that anticipated? It was almost as if, I don't know if it was already known or in terms of where Chicago was with releasing this information.

And I'm wondering, the first thing I said to myself, Charlie, was if I would have been a member of the Chicago Blackhawks in their management decision, is that something that I want out? Do I want to put that much pressure on this kid to come in now and be this generational player on top of what the media has driven? Now I want to put that upon him myself. Yeah, it's difficult. I think the Blackhawks are in a spot, though,

that they haven't really done anything to try to force this pressure on him. It's just the fan base was just so starved for a player like this or getting back to the prominence, right? I mean, it's crazy to think about that. The Blackhawks have not won a playoff series since the 2015 Stanley Cup final. And prior to last year, they had one of the worst pipelines in the NHL. Like, it was kind of, it was almost inexcusable. And maybe the outside of Chicago fans are looking at,

hockey fans are looking at this like, oh, like Chicago is spoiled. They're going from Kane and Taves to Conor Bedard. But when the city of Chicago and hockey got revived in Chicago again with the three Stanley Cups, it's like Chicago was just starving for another or the new era, right? Because they really hadn't had it like 2016 to 2023. I mean, for eight years, it was really trying times here in Chicago. So, yeah, I mean, I was getting text messages from people that I hadn't heard from in high school and college.

So, like, even the casual in chicago is now super charged on wanting to pay attention to the blackhawks again i only exist on hockey twitter you know like when i see blackhawk stuff i'm just kind of in the general conversation and i want to get how you feel about some of the backlash to them having this pick in the wake of the kyle beach scandal and you know how different it is there in Chicago for the actual fans of the team and how they feel about it yeah it's a good question because I think for the most part like a lot of people lost jobs over that scandal um 13 years ago you know like Joe Quinville's not there anymore he lost his job with Florida Sam Bowman

um obviously is no longer with the black hawks now i guess you could argue i mean like the ownership is the same and there are still some members in in the front office but for the most part you know they've pretty much cleaned house and i think i think that's what's hard to separate for me like if the if the casual fan or the hockey fan feels like you know that they're they're upset that the Blackhawks even had the first round pick in the in the first place that that's I guess is a separate conversation but to be mad that the Blackhawks won the lottery or that the NHL should have prevented them from winning the lottery in some way I mean that's just that I don't know if I can go there as far as the lineup and what it is now,

and forget about whether or not you're going to fast track or not, but is there a sense that this lineup is good enough to protect him too physically? And I know he's strong. He is a very strong kid, but he's not the biggest kid in the world either. And then there's that factoring in that there might be a little bit of an intimidation process to go through.

Either some guys may challenge him, some may not, but where's Chicago with their lineup about actually being able to insulate this guy in his rookie year? Yeah, I think they got to add some sandpaper to this roster, and it kind of reminds me of what they did last year going into the season. They obviously added the speed-type players with Andreas Athanasiou and some of those other players that really fit what Kyle Davidson

is trying to mold his new group into. But they also went out and got Max Domi, who's a speed speed type player, but he also provides that layer of protection playing on a line with Patrick Kane, right? So I think you have to go out and add on shorter term deals. You're obviously not going to, the Blackhawks aren't going to put themselves in a situation where they're adding players on longer term deals just to fit the, you know, just to protect Conor Bedard. But I think you want to try to check both boxes

where you're adding players that can add that layer of protection in the short term while also not jeopardizing financially the group long term. Do you think there's a chance that Chicago could see itself in a position to take on salary for assets, kind of looking to build towards the future? You know, like whether that be, you know, I heard someone in our office today say, John Tavares, take towards the future, you know, like whether that be, you know, I heard someone in our office today say, John Tavares, take Tavares,

you know, package an asset with them, you know, would that be a possibility for that team? Yeah. I'm not sure about John Tavares. I've seen some, some Nate, I know you were just sending an example. So I wasn't, but, but like Josh Bailey, like of the Islanders, like that, that's an opportunity where maybe the Blackhawks can swoop in and try to get some assets for a guy whose contract is going to expire in the short term and it's not jeopardizing the future.

And, yeah, Chicago, they have so much cap space. Now, we talked to Kyle Davidson during exit interviews, and he said getting to the floor is not a concern. But at some point, you actually do have to get to the floor so you know adding those players that um could help the black hogs get to the floor but you can get assets in return similar to how they basically got a second round pick for nikita zaitsev and then another second round pick for jason dickinson earlier in the year like i mean that that's exactly what the types of deals Chicago would be looking to make. Well, it gets real interesting from here on in, in terms of Chicago and how much they're going to ride this kid as early as today.

Interesting times for sure for Chicago. Hey, Charlie, really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this, man. Awesome. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Rumeliotti this, man. Awesome. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Rumeliotti.

Opa. Conor Bedard sells him five schmillin' tickets. I wouldn't leak that so fast. No. Why? It's like rubbing it in people's faces. Seriously. It is. Guess he's not going back to Regina.

You're one of the richest organizations. You're Chicago. You're like the Yankees. Hey, everybody, we just made $5 million off a 17-year-old kid. Imagine they're like, yeah, we don't think he's ready. We're going to send him back. We don't want to burn a year of his ELC. He's 17.

I don't even think he's turned 18 yet. He also had 6 billion goals this year. We just made $5 million. How about Columbus? And by the way, we all watched it last night. The whole time I'm sitting there going, Weeksy, man, you're good. You're a good host.

That's not an easy thing to do. And I speak of this because we're like ex-players, man. I used to always joke with Millard, I could do your job, please. What do we need a host for? But I do know why you need a host. I remember listening to those shows and just always, I thought that bit was hilarious.

Because they're better. They're smoother. Yeah. Look at me butchering this show for two years. You're smooth as silk now. But I'm thinking the whole time, Weeksy, great job, buddy. And then there was that gaffe, though, where I don't know what happened. Did you hear exactly what may have happened where he accidentally leaked out that Columbus, you're out of it?

Something to do with a teleprompter. And so, like, it had, you know, the after the break script was visible or something like that. And he pre-read some of the. Oh, boy. I didn't know that. I mean, guess what? And he just read it. It doesn't change anything.

No. You just found out, what, two and a half minutes earlier than you're supposed to. But now people think it's right. But Columbus and John Davidson, his general manager, Jarmo's there. And then you've got this fan base. And the play is that you go to commercial break with three thinking that they've got a chance after the break. And then it went to two. I felt bad for Weeksy, who I thought overall did a great job.

You know, I'm stuck with the moral stuff. And I think you guys did a good job asking Charlie about the Kyle Beach stuff and just talking about that. I do think in a vacuum, Chicago is a perfect landing spot for Bedard. And that's where the conspiracy theorists want to come out and say, hey, he's useless in Anaheim. Nobody's... True.

You can't sell Conor Bedard in Anaheim with 1030 starts in the East Coast. I'm telling you, this is for the league. They must be loving it, right? I mean, we're talking winter classics, outdoor games. Power rig destinations. Prime time, yeah, yeah. Go to Instagram.

Like, I don't know how many times I saw rigged. Yeah, you want a strong U.S. hockey market, though, like superstars in big U.S. cities. Rigged is a hot take right now. The most important thing is he's in a market that will help the league. No question. Yeah. No doubt about that.

And it's just, like, you can talk. I actually liked what Charlie said about, you know, they should have stripped the pick. You know, at this point, the Hawks, they had the pick. They won the lottery. They got the pick. You know, at this point, the Hawks, they had the pick. They won the lottery. They got the pick, right? Yeah. You can be mad at the league at this point, but they fired everybody.

They tried to – it's a tough conversation. I mean, I don't want to get into it, but, you know, I just – I look at Joel Quenville, and I still wonder why he's not coaching in the NHL. Yeah, I definitely don't have a conversation. That's for another day. But I do. He will be soon. Yeah, I think he will be soon.

And it is, you know, as much as I would love for a strong NHL, top to bottom strong, Anaheim strong, Columbus, you know, part of me does like to see that, you know, the big market teams have some sort of draw right you look at hockey related revenue you look at what players can get paid teams keeping their players you know it's good for the Leafs to have this guy go to Chicago I will say this though and I'm a little older than you guys, so I went through the Crosby, the McDavid, where it was like, these guys are just going to be great right away.

And I don't get that same feeling with Medard. You don't? I don't. No, no. And it just could be me saying I'm still not sure. What makes you say that? That he's... Let me...

I don't know what success is for him. That's what makes me say that. I don't know if I can look at him as early as next year and say that guy's going to score you 80, 90 points next year. Well, that's a great question. If he's 30, 30, 60 next year and say that guy's going to score you 80, 90 points next year. Well, that's a great question. If he's 30, 30, 60 next year, that's a success. Yeah, but that's not, that may not look like a generational superstar. It may not.

And the one thing is that he's not, he doesn't skate like, he doesn't skate like Connor. I don't think he'll come in and be as physical as even Crosby was early in his career. And I know he's a strong kid, but I just, I worry about him not having a real good physical presence right away. What's he got to do to carry this generational hey i got you five million dollars overnight to to be deemed a success i i think he's so damn good it doesn't matter so is like is he going to score 40 next year yeah like i really think he's going

to come in and be like 100 point guy right away yeah see that's so many points that is that's i don't feel the same way right well i feel like it's possible but i don't know if it's probable he's different than these other guys like i you know he's not like lafreniere or he sure or like this is like the next one kind of thing he was unbelievable in junior 11 players had 100 points but so were a lot of other guys not like that unbelievable not like that you may be right and i may be wrong i'm convinced yeah i really am like someone mentioned to me but he could be so hard to be on a garbage team it's hard to have success with no one on your line pat kane is regarded as the greatest u.s player at a uh in history yeah yeah i think so uh i don't know if he had a 80 points over 80 points

crosby have for seven or eight years he may have had over 80 points once out of his first six or seven years. He had 88 in his third year. Who's that, Kane? Kane. But he, yeah, I mean, he didn't light it up. How many years? Give me seven years. How many times was he over 80 points? One.

One. Okay. That's, I mean, it's good. Patrick, but. Sidney Crosby's rookie year, he had 102. Patrick Kane scored over 100 points twice in his career i just worry about the build-up being so huge on this guy that people would look at him and go point of game big deal that would be a big deal to me having an 18 year old step into chicago who

has no support and he scores 80 points yeah it could be a highlight reel out of 50 of them what is maddie benears who's going to win the calder trophies point total this year like 50 some one quick sec here yeah i you know the best rookie this season had 57 points in 80 games so yeah but listen 80 point per game is reasonable as an expectation okay yeah i think it's going over the spotlights on him already yeah right it is and that's great too you know we're about the stories it's great it's it's great if you're not the parents of him and you worry about him being overwhelmed or just carrying too much weight on his shoulder or the pressure and i don't i don't

begin to tell you i know the kid well enough to understand that uh this is a walk in the park for him or you know some nights he could feel it a little bit but it it should be someone's concern it's not your concern and it's not any of the fans concern but somebody should kind of be making sure that the kid's a little protected from people trying to grab every piece of flesh off of him. For sure. I do think that you reach a certain level of a hockey player. He's been living this for years now.

Yeah, and you just don't – you're going to go out there and you're going to dominate the hockey game you're in, regardless of the level you're at. He's always going to go out there and you're going to dominate the hockey game you're in, regardless of the level you're at. Like, I just, you know, he's always going to have his lumps. He's not going to, but just you're at a certain level of special. You just figure it out and it comes to you and you're just the best eventually. Certainly a high bar for Conor Bedard. Be really fun.

The next time they play best on best hockey in the year 2035, maybe Conor Bedard and Conor McDavid will play together, fellas. That'd be fun. 53 on the line. And I don't know if you guys saw the Canadian World Championship roster this year for the one that always happens during the playoffs. Even for the World

Championship, it's very plucky. Let's just say that. I feel like every year Daniel Winnick's on it. It's a little plucky this year. I bring that up. I did see the lineup. I would love to have seen Bedard go. I know I understand why you wouldn't, but it would be interesting to see him there.

Just nothing to gain. Just enough. What? Nothing to gain. Sid's gone a couple times. This is, again, you. Not giving a crap about the kid. Sid's gone a couple times.

Guys have gone. It's a chance to play for your country. Sid go was 17 sid went i think coming off of a world junior championship and subway series and rival series and they they squeeze everything they can out of junior prospect this and no i just thought the guy break i 100 I 100% give him a break. I get it. Would have loved to see it. Is Owen Power there? Guys, I'm just desperate to see good hockey players playing in Canada jerseys against other good teams. I get it, Sammy. Okay.

Every other sport in the world gets it. We don't. All right. Playoff picks. It's time for playoff picks presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. A couple other series going on tonight. Squids got a big chance here at home uh up to one

yeah i don't know about you guys but i still can't fully believe in the squids yeah and the kraken and i know we're gonna have eddie o on who's probably gonna tell us to believe in the kraken but i think dallas is the better team they have the higher end talent obviously and if you think they're going to come back in the series you know the correct score after after game five in terms of what the series is at I was looking at Dallas to be up 3-2 so if Dallas wins the next two games in a row they'll be up 3-2 in the series and that's plus 155 so I think yeah the Kraken are a pretty significant underdog tonight i think they're plus 140 so you know it's it's an interesting bet to get a little value on

the dallas stars who i think is the better team i don't know if if if yeah you guys ruined me now i believe did they announce mccann i think heisken and Enham are both kind of. I had heard McCann's going in tonight, so. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough for me not to believe in Seattle after seeing Vegas go to the cup final in their first year. Like, it's the same team to me. Something tells me Seattle's got to win this game to win the series. Yeah, it goes 2-2.

Dallas finds himself a little bit. Better goalie, probably. Yeah, better top-end guys. Yeah, yeah yeah I'm with you on that so yeah I think that's a good bet Sammy the other thing I see that you've got in our lineup here you can still get the Florida Panthers as underdogs at home who've won three straight times against Toronto yes yes they are they are the underdogs will you be hedging against the Maplers can I tell you something he is. I'm not going to.

Because it's not a... If this gets to six or seven... And you start to want the Leafs to win again? I don't want the Leafs to win tomorrow night, fellas. I'm full stop. Like, I really... Actually, I had someone write me today and say... It kind of disappoints me.

I'm sorry. I know. Kip, I had someone write me and say, how can you call Sam the face of Leafs Nation when he doesn't believe? He's not a true fan. Oh, yeah. Oh, let me paint my face and they're definitely going to come back, these fellas.

Come on. This is the comment I got. He's not a true believer fan. Randy Quaid had a character in Major League. Do you remember? He sat in the house and just ripped on them. They stink. They stink.

Sammy's turned into Johnny from Major League. That's a bleak outlook, man. I don't know what to say. I don't know. If there's an elite fan. You're not supposed to be a dumb boy. I got one DM from a listener to the show. It's like, I still believe.

And I'm like, I responded by saying, I am broken. I do not. I do not believe. If you believe, good on on you you're a much more optimistic person than i so well if you believe boy i mean there's some naivety in there but i will say i so hold on of this show i think i'm the strongest believer i i think there's a five percent chance they do it okay five percent that's a really great one and my last thing i have for playoff picks well what's your percent

uh two okay so yeah i 250 chance higher that's bad math terribly sorry if you factor in that this has already been a crazy, dumb, stupid playoff already where there's no rhyme and reason on road success, home success, power plays going 50 and 60%. I mean, it's nuts. If this was the year that another team came back from 3-0, would you be absolutely shocked? No.

Bet 365 has a minus 125. I'm betting the Leafs. Actually, you know, this, I remember I read that Beaverton article to you yesterday about how they find new ways to disappoint their fans. It would actually be incredibly Leafy to come back and then lose in Game 7 on home ice. When will you keep taking us down your rabbit hole deeper and deeper and deeper fan fiction i actually i actually was looking up the four teams that came back and new york islanders in 75 were

one of them uh born zone uh fresh face 20 year old bomb bob born on that team and they came back against the pittsburgh penguins and then the next series against the Pittsburgh Penguins. And in the next series against the Flyers, they went down 3-0 again and then came back and forced a game seven again and lost in that game seven. So it's pretty crazy. Just thought I'd throw that in there. The last quick thing I have, Carolina and Jersey back tonight. They look pretty dominant in the first two games of the series.

Carolina did a little same game parlay for you sebastian ajo to get over two and a half shots a point in the game and carolina wind pays plus 375 so there you go okay we're gonna go to break but we got eddie old chuck uh after the break former nhler stanley cup champion with the new york rangers seattle kraken analyst we'll get his thoughts on the Leafs and the hole they're in and the Seattle Kraken and their surprising place during the Stanley Cup playoffs. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, wherever you're watching and listening, we're glad you're aboard.

Give us a rating and review. Give us a thumbs up before break. And we're back with Ed Olchuk. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Still plenty to get into.

Mike McKenna is going to join us in the second hour. Daily face-off hockey analyst. And now we got Edzo. Give me a chance! That's what the Leafs are saying, Edzo. Give me a chance. What's up, Kipper? How are you, bud? Where are you?

What's the schedule like? Where are you next? I'm headed to Raleigh for game five. We'll have that game down here on TNT. And then TBD. We were in a holding pattern because obviously with those three other series going on, you know, one could be over tonight, and then we'll have to wait and see what happens tomorrow.

So there are a lot of moving parts. So we just kind of sit and wait. When they tell us to go to place A, we'll try to figure it out. So, yeah, all is good. But I'll be there. I was in Jersey for game three, and obviously a huge effort and a huge win for the Devs. And, you know, an interesting move by Lindy Ruff, you know,

addressing the 7-D and adding Brendan Smith and Luke Hughes into the lineup and having the extra forward spot there, giving a little bit more ice time to the big boys, and they really seemed to relish that because he sure got on the board. Meyer got on the board. Jack Hughes had a huge game. I think he had, what, three or four points in that game. So, you know, look, the Devs, I guess it worked in round one. You know, lose the first two games.

Now those were at home, obviously, to the Rangers. They lose the first two in Carolina, and they come out with a real, you know, a real gutsy performance. And, you know, look, the biggest question mark in that series is, you know, the goaltending, right? Which team is going to get the consistent goaltending? And, you know, we've seen all four goaltenders to this point so

we'll see how it all shakes out. Thursday night game five and we'll see what the series is, either 2-2 or 3-1. We're sitting here trying to make sense of the Toronto Maple Leaf series. Not sure if you've had a chance to catch much of it. What are your thoughts and impressions from the Leafs finding themselves in

a big 3-0 hole? Yeah, not a lot because those nights have been nights I've been working for, any full disclosure. But, you know, like at watching highlights, you can't really get a – Yeah. You know, you can't get a really good feel for it. The one thing I know when I was in studio with you guys and then, you know, post-trade deadline and just watching the prior series with Tampa,

I just, I found it interesting with, you know, the decisions on the back end of, you know, playing Geo and Shen, you know, and not exactly having defense. You know, Jake McCabe, I think, has played well, but, I mean, he's not exactly fleet of foot. I know him, you know, very well from his time when he was here in Chicago. And, you know, I just think that, you know,

I know they made some changes. They brought Lilligren in there. I think he was out the other night, if I'm not mistaken. But, again, I mean, just a different look. I just think that when you have some bigger bodies back there that aren't exactly fleet of foot, you don't have the guys

that have the ability to be able to skate you out of trouble. And that was the one thing that I thought was a question mark going into the playoffs, and they found a way to beat Tampa. And Tampa is not an overly quick team. And I don't think there's any doubt. I think Leaf fans would probably agree is Florida's a pretty quick team.

Now, maybe they play quick, Borny. I don't know what the numbers say, but they sure look like they're playing fast. They're faster than maybe the Tampa series. And I just look at the top line and go, you know, I just don't know if you can have, you know, all of those guys in there that aren't exactly, you know line and go, you know, I just don't know if you can have, you know, all of those guys in there that aren't exactly, you know, they're plotters. And, you know, you can have one guy in there maybe or two. But, you know, when you start getting the three and four guys, you know, unless you're going to address,

you know, I guess unless you're going to address, you know, 10 and 8, you know, that's one thing that's kind of stood out to me in these playoffs. And just when all those guys are in there at the same time, you know, that's just one thing that's kind of stood out to me in these playoffs and just when all those guys are in there at the same time, you know, it's just a different type of game. And you've got, obviously, a different type of opponent in Florida than you did with Tampa. This question to you, Edzo, is maybe indirectly involves the Toronto Maple Leafs, but over your experience of playing over a thousand games in regular season,

and then what close to another 60 in your career in the playoffs, what is the one thing that stands out the most to you on why we see such differences of what is presented in the regular season and then the playoffs and just so much room just gets tightened up. But what's the glaring thing that fans are missing here in terms of why a skilled team like Toronto all of a sudden doesn't find the room out there? Well, because the rink gets smaller in the playoff time.

I mean, look at every shift is for keeps. It looks like the other team has six guys on the ice. Kipper, we lived it even in our era. I mean, like, it's a way different animal, and you're not going to get the, you know, look at every once in a while, you're going to get those pretty goals and those picture-perfect passes.

But that's just not what it is. Some games are. But when you look at the totality of a playoff series, you just look at it. I mean, every shift is for keeps, and I think we've seen those. And I've talked a lot about this over the years on television and learning this from coaching in the regular season like I did in Pittsburgh, but then also playing, is the momentum swings and surges come playoff time are so dramatic.

And when you have it, the momentum, you've got to do something with it. Like you do. It's imperative is that when you do have that opportunity is you got to, you got to make the other team pay. And then when it's against you, you know, everybody says, well, we got to get back on our side. Well, yeah, but something has to happen in order for that to, to that next step to take place. So, you know, you, you need to stop it. If it's against you, like think about last night's game early in Vegas and Edmonton.

It was all Vegas the first, what, two and a half minutes of that game? And then a quick breakdown, a two-on-one, and Ryan finds Fogle, and the puck ends up in the back of the net. Now, Edmonton's got all the mo. Then they come down and have a couple of unbelievable chances. And then Vegas comes back and scores. You know what I mean? So I think Kipper, you know, look, I don't think it's anything.

You know, I don't think it's any one thing. But the understanding is, like, the rink does get smaller. And it's okay to go out there and just you know i don't want to say kill the clock but you know like it's okay to go station to station you know to make the right play just make sure you get the puck out at the blue line get it in at their blue line uh you know you're gonna have to you're gonna have to find other ways to generate offense and create that momentum that I'm talking about. Look, I mean, feel free, you guys.

I mean, we've known each other a long time, Kipper, me and you especially. Like, if you disagree, I mean, you know, please. But, like, that's just the way that playoff hockey is. And you may not get the clean exits out of the zone. You might have to pick pucks up off the wall and then you got somebody, you know, right in your grill and that puck's got to get out like that. And that to me is that is playoff hockey and watching and observing and being a fan and also calling games.

The most dangerous area on the ice is in the middle. The most dangerous area on the ice is in between the face off dots up and down the rink. Like for something, you know, good to happen for your team, the puck has got to get through that area of the ice. And if something bad is going to happen for your team, the puck's got to be in that area. So the teams that can play well without the puck,

teams that understand it's okay to go out there and just get to the next shift you know just kind of pass the baton on and uh you might have to find ways to win games that you're you know you normally you normally don't and but it's uh yeah it's it's playoff hockey and like i said i can't emphasize it enough the rink gets a little smaller come playoff time and then you have to find a way to be able to generate that momentum for your team and then take advantage of it. For sure. A lot of that is patience, right? Just being willing to stay in a close game

and not trying to force something that isn't there and just kind of waiting for those chances to develop. Something that hasn't always happened for the Leafs, has more this postseason, but hasn't worked out in this series. Another series that you're more familiar with then is that Seattle one. You've watched that Seattle team all year, and we're trying to make sense of it here because we haven't watched as closely. What are you making of them taking it to Dallas a little bit here, up 2-1?

Well, when I was in studio with you guys a few months ago, we obviously talked about this you know Seattle and me doing the local tv there this year Borny and like it is by committee uh it is a four-line team uh I remember specifically we talked about the the defensive pair of of Dunn and Larson and they've been just I mean they've been outstanding I mean Larson has been like I mean I to say he's been perfect in these playoffs, but man, oh, man, he's been pretty damn close. But everybody has stepped up, and the guy in goal has found his game

the last 20 games of the regular season, and that being Philip Grubauer. And, you know, much has been made about, you know, they got, they took on Colorado, and yeah, Colorado played, you know, they played a lot. I, they played six games in the last 11 days of the regular season. And, you know, they had to play the extra day because of some flooding going on in Nashville. They were all out to win the division, you know, and then they played every other day for 13 days. And, you know, I look at at times they were on fumes, But they also had some injuries, obviously. No Lannis God, the whole Natushkin, you know, whatever that is,

off the ice stuff where, you know, he got taken out of the lineup. No Josh Manson after the first couple of games. But the one, you know, I tried to talk about it, you know, nationally when I did do the games on TNT for games six and seven in that series, Borny. But, like, people may not realize is that, you know, remember when Kale McCarr took out Jared McCann early in game three? They played, that being Seattle, and they played these three games against Dallas

without their two best offensive players in Jared McCann and Andre Burakovsky. So you take those guys, the one guy had 40 goals this year. The other guy was on pace for 80 points, and he hasn't played a shift since game one of the first game after the All-Star break in the island. So they've done this without their, you know, two guys that are absolutely difference makers and have the ability to be game breakers.

So how have they done it? They've checked really well. They've gotten great goaltending, and they've gotten contributions up and down the lineup. So look at, was I shocked they beat Colorado? Absolutely not. Was I a little surprised? Yeah, sure.

Yeah, I mean, you got McKinnon. He got Ransom, and he got Makar. I mean, surprised? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I mean, you got McKinnon, he got Ransom, and he got Makar. I mean, right? Like, okay. So they found a way to win that game of seven games. And oh, by the way, they won three or four games on the road. And now they've come, now they take on Dallas.

They win a huge game one. Again, having going seven games, you know, they played every other day for 15 days. And Dallas did what they need to do they took out Minnesota and had the four days off and look at they found a way to win a game one in Yanni Gordon overtime game two they they had nothing and Dallas put the screws to them and and they rightfully should have then for the schedule they got two days off that being Seattle Seattle, and obviously Dallas did too. But that was their first two-day break that they had

in almost three and a half weeks. So that was huge for them. And you saw what ended up happening where they put up a seven spot and win game three. So, look, this series is long from over, but I know I'm all over the map, but they just play in your face. If we don't have the puck, we're going to check you. When they're playing their game, they're really good in the neutral zone.

I remember telling you guys specifically when I was sitting in studio between the two of you is that when they play straight north hockey, the D to the forwards, that's when they really got it going on. When they start trying to make those, you know, those Northwest passes or South, whatever the direction is and not going straight north, that's when they get themselves into trouble. And here they are two wins away from going to the conference finals.

So got to imagine a big twist back here tonight. But look, they got to be feeling pretty confident there after putting up, you know, whatever, how many they put up on Ottinger. I mean, what they put up Ottinger in two or three games, they put five spots on them game one. And then, you know, I think they got five before we lost the other night. We're talking to Eddie Olchuk, TNT broadcaster, and my teammate in 94. One more for you, Edzo.

Was I your teammate or were you my teammate in 94. One more for you, Edzo. Was I your teammate or were you my teammate? How were you saying? Bernie, is he saying that I was his teammate? Is that what he's saying? Yeah, no, that's all we hear about is how secondary you were to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I thought. Okay, Kipper, go ahead.

Sorry. One more for you, big guy. And that's a lot of frustrated Leaf fans watching uh three 10 million dollar players not put a puck in the net in this series is seattle um giving teams a reason to think that that two five million dollar players are better than one 10 million dollar player because last time i checked i don't think anyone uh at least they had a forward much more north than $5 million a year. But does it make teams second guess how much money they want to actually give someone

that isn't Dreisaitl or McDavid? Well, I mean, I think we all live like that, Kipper. I mean, look at, you know, there's no doubt. But look at, I mean, a couple, I mean, in particular, I'm just going to mention two guys. I'm just going to mention Matthews and Marner, who are two, you know, obviously incredibly talented and world-class players.

And I would want either one of those guys on my team. And, you know, look, I wish if I was, if those guys were way older, I would have loved it i got the opportunity to play with those guys and and what have you and look yeah we are all defined at the end of the day in the markets that we play is how you perform on the biggest stage right like that that is just the reality and that comes with the big money and the contracts or whatever but look at our is the national hockeyockey League a copycat league? I mean, you know, I don't know.

I think in some areas, sure, how people allocate their funds and how they do that. And, you know, look at, yeah, it just happens where, you know, look at Ronnie Francis and his staff, and I got to give my brother a little love there because he's Ronnie's right-hand man, my brother Ricky. You know, like, this is not the same Seattle Kraken team that came out, you know, at the end of last year.

I mean, you had a boatload of injuries there with Tanev and Schwartz, and you brought Matty Beneers in for the last, you know, 10 games, and he went out and got Bjorkstrand and Burakoski, and you got Justin Schultz, who's won a couple of Stanley Cups, and you got Jones back there to be the backup. So you need all types. But look, it's always easy to say that when a team happens to be down three cops. Everybody's scrapping and trying to grasp at straws.

So you try to get the best players. Look at last year. Look at Colorado, right? You've got McKinnon and McCarr. Both those guys are making, you know, they're making big cake and rightfully so. And Lanuscott got the big deal

and Rantanen, you know, I think is up there. So look at, you need game breakers. You need them. I don't care. Like you do. Like you may get a team that gets on a heater and runs

and you say, sit there and go, geez, you know, their best player isn't even a, you know, I'm just throw a number, a top 50 player in the league. I mean, you know, that, that could happen. Like, you know, I mean, look at Vegas a couple of years ago when they went to the cup final. I mean, they had some really, really, really good players. Would you sit there and say any of them were superstars? Maybe Marc-Andre Fleury, right?

You would agree on that, right? Okay. maybe Marc-Andre Fleury right you would agree on that right yeah okay now in my opinion the most important position you know in all professional sports it's the greatest equalizer when you get a guy in goal but like look at you need I would want those game breakers because that's what ends up I think at the end of the day now do game breakers end up sawing themselves off and then you need those role players yeah that's that's certainly ends up, I think, at the end of the day. Now, do game breakers end up sawing themselves off and then you need those role players? Yeah, that's certainly part of it. But, Kipper, we know back in 94,

and I know that's a long time ago for a lot of your listeners, but, you know, we're not winning a cup without the big boys, right? Like, we're not. But you had those other pieces there to kind of help kind of keep everything in line and change momentum and go out there and kill the clock so um yeah look at i'd want you know i'd want those two guys on my team 100 every day of the week as oh enjoy the playoffs buddy we're going to catch up to you real soon thanks

for doing this i can't wait and kepper i'm not sure who canceled on you but i know born in wanted me to be on your show today so so I appreciate you guys having me on. Ah, thanks, Eddie. We love you. Just one give me a chance before you leave. What? Just one give me a chance before you leave, please. Kipper!

Just give me a chance! I just want to play! Give me a chance! There you go. Eddie Olchuk. God, we had some laughs. I agree with him, and I know that you just need your stars. You need superstars in this league.

And I can appreciate that Seattle's doing it by committee, but you put them in a Stanley Cup final, I'm not sure. There's going to be a lot of people wanting to watch yeah four lines grinded out or you know yeah it's also so rare that they actually have success big picture like carolina in 06 and otherwise the you know without having stars it's pretty rare to see a team breakthrough for sure attaboy edzo give us eric i don't disappoint me. Right. I think he's right. I mean, it just depends which game breakers you have. Fair, fair.

But like, I think the highest paid guy there might be Eberle at 5.5. I mean, that's, that's not, Eberle's a good player, but you don't go pay to go see Jordan Eberle. No,

I'd watch Annie Gord. That's about it. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. Mike McKenna, Daily Faceoff Hockey Analyst. He's going to come by and tell us what Joe Wall's in for in Game 4. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, real Kiprin Bourne, back after these words.

Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590, The Van. Welcome back to the show. Waiting for Mike McKenna, Daily Faceoff hockey analyst. He's done a terrific job for us, Borny, all year long.

He has. And if I can recall our last conversation as I welcome in Mike McKenna, I believe the three of us were all in agreement that maybe get a few more starts in for Joseph Wall because you never know. You may need them. And here we are. Well, I got you here, Kipper, if that was a question. Yeah.

It is, buddy. Sorry about that. That's okay. So here's the deal. Honestly, I thought Joseph Wall was the best goaltender in the Maple Leafs organization this year. And I'm not sure at the start of the season that's what I believed at all, but by the middle, I was pretty firm in that.

Now, I think Samsonov had some really nice runs this season. Murray, obviously up and down. His game was good to start. It cratered towards the middle part of the season, and then he got hurt all the time. But Wohl's consistency in the arc of his career has led to this point. And I did want to see him play games down the stretch for this exact reason. You know, you look at what he did during the regular season

with a 9.32 save percentage. He won six games. He did everything he could have shown between the American League and the NHL to be ready for this moment. Now, this isn't a guarantee that the Leafs are going to come back and win four straight with him in net, but I can't help but question,

you know, Samson, that, that wasn't a massive hit that he took in the game from Shen the other night. You know, we thought he was battling something all down the stretch and that played into my thought process.

You know, if Walt's healthy, this might be the guy and it's his consistency right his game is very clean he doesn't lose his net very often um he plays between his posts he reads the puck reads the play pretty well um this is exciting but then again he's also got room to grow because reinhardt's game winner the other night hey let's face it that wasn't a great goal against got caught out a little bit was a little bit unaware on it um but i think he'll learn from it and the big question is can you enforce straight because that's what he's facing now in his rookie season for the

toronto mapleys well and so in that situation like my thought would be there's some pressure he doesn't seem to be nervous or anything like that but like mike you've played in games many games where you would have felt a lot of pressure right right? Going up and down between the NHL and AHL in your times when you're up. I'm sure you've been affected by pressure. How would it affect a goaltender, you know, feeling maybe a little bit uptight about your situation? Yeah, it can be tough, no doubt. I do think, though, that with the amount of games that Wall has played in the NHL and knowing that he's got some juice behind him, guys, like that matters so much.

His next two seasons, those are one-way contracts, fellas. Okay? So it's not like the Maple Leafs are looking at this as a tryout for Joseph Wall. Maybe it is at the NHL level, but his next two years are one-way contracts. That shows to me that the organization not only believes in him, but they have a plan for him. You know, they have Murray next year under contract, but beyond that, Samson, he's a free agent.

There's no guarantee he's going to be back. So I think it's been a good lead-up for him, especially coming through those COVID years that were so strange. He battled injury. These last two years, he's been able to solidify himself, and he's a really smart goaltender. He's a really intelligent person in the first place. I've known him since he was 14 years old. we used to go on the ice coaching him with a guy

named bruce racine in st louis here racine played in the nhl uh in the american league ihl for years and we always marveled at how well and how quickly joseph picked things up and it's just his overall demeanor i don't think he's phased by this stepping into the playoffs and to find somebody who's that mentally strong to play for the Leafs is a necessity. Like you have to have it because you can't hide there. So it's again, it's no guarantee, but of all the people that I've known throughout the years for a young prospect, I'd say walls towards the top of the heap of those that I believe going into

it can handle this type of situation. So wall looks a 200 feet across from him and he sees a guy that has a reputation for imploding in Bobrovsky. Why isn't that? Why hasn't it happened yet? That's a great question because you know, Bob is like a really streaky goaltender in my eyes and I've seen him this year.

I think it was early January when the Florida Panthers started winning games. He started to stand on his head and he did it for, I don't know, six, seven, eight games. And then he really came back down to earth hard. And part of that to me is just how loose Florida plays defensively. Like there's an intentional recklessness to their game. And that doesn't always translate to great defense. And right now, Bob is out playing the team in front of him. I'm not certain he can keep that up, but I sure think he can do it for one more of the next four games. So, you know, Bob's game is always been built on explosiveness. It has been built with a technical foundation. I think he's probably a little bit too

elastic for today's game in some ways, but he's also controlled that a little bit more, I think, in the latter half of the season. So really what it comes down to, dude, Bob's feeling the flow, man. And he goes on these runs, six, seven, five, six, seven, eight games where he can just be unbeatable. What you have to hope is that he can maintain some level of consistency when he does fall off because at some point it'll happen. And I think if you're the Panthers,

you're hoping it's only a one or two game dip rather than the five, six like you'd seen during the regular season. The Leafs had so much success in that first round, Mike, or at least a lot of the credit went to their net front traffic, right? They had screenshots and tipped in pucks, and a lot of that work came in front of the blue paint. Not having that same success against Bobrovsky, what is it about that, I guess, that makes it difficult? A lot of that work came in front of the blue paint, not having that same success against Bobrovsky. You know,

what is it about that? I guess that makes it difficult aside from just not being able to see the puck as much, just playing with people in your foot space like that. Well, it's hard because first people don't understand this very often, unless you've actually stepped foot in the cage and strap the pillows on that.

If you don't see the release of the puck, if you don't see the puck, leave the stick blade, you're in big trouble and all bets are off if that puck deflects even the littlest amount on the way in now your your muscle memory your remembrance of what you've seen previously can lead you to certain conclusions and where to end up on tips but if man if you don't see it off that blade, you're in trouble. Now, Bobrovsky is really pretty talented at that. Like he's a very dynamic goalie and trying to find windows and lanes and see pucks through

traffic. And he does have great reflexes. So that's one of his strengths that he can adjust on the fly. But I really credit the high forwards of Florida taking a page, not just out of, out of the Tampa Bay lightnings playbook, or I'm sorry, out of the Tampa Bay lightnings playbook, or I'm sorry, out of the Toronto Maple Leafs playbook. And they're kind of throwing it back in the other direction here where the Panthers are trying to force Toronto's D men and players on the outside to keep the puck as high as they can and not let those shots get through. So to me, Florida has

always been active with their high forwards. They're a very aggressive team in their own defensive zone. And I think that's played pretty well against Toronto, who, you know, for all intents and purposes, even though they made it work against Tampa, like, I don't know if you guys disagree with me, I don't think they're really a low-to-high get-it-to-the-net team. I still think they're a skilled team at their core, and this has thrown a real curveball at them.

The one thing that I've kind of thought coming down the stretch is I've not been overly impressed with the way the Leafs have moved the puck and I'm just wondering now and we saw in game three one of the few times that the Leafs have been able to go east west on Bobrovsky with camps pass to Lafferty for the early goal but for the most part i think i think they've been pretty predictable in terms of the feel about how they want to get the the puck to the net um it looks like austin's got shoot first mentality and i'm just wondering if that predictability has really played into bobrovsky's hands if you pre-scout enough, which Bobrovsky's tireless in his work,

and he's also got a good staff around him, guys. Okay, I mean, you've got, not only is Rob Tallis a really capable goaltending coach, you've also got Roberto Luongo in the mix. You've also got Francois Allaire in the mix. There's no shortage of goalie talent on the coaching staff with Florida,

and it's not just helping Bob, it's pre-scouting the other team. When you know the predictability of where a shooter, not just where a shooter likes to shoot on you. Okay. Like I can hop in there and know Austin Matthews is going to shoot a high glove on me. Okay. I can sit on that. He can still beat me, but if I know where he's going to shoot it from, at least I can get there and get my feet set and give myself a better chance. And so I do think that predictability has been something he can rely on. But you look at where the Leafs have done well, right? Like, think about the play, Marner's pass, cross ice, I think on the power play, right,

where he spins off, goes through middle, one-timer from the backside. You can't expect that as a goaltender. So the more that they can create a little bit of havoc with their passing routes and lanes and not be as predictable, it's going to help because when Bob gets his feet set again, his reflexes are phenomenal. If you can catch him while he's still in motion, there's holes. He gets long five hole, you name it.

It's available, but you got to create all kinds of dynamic movement in the offensive zone to get that to work. What do you make of this weird postseason, or at least this weird round, where you're seeing teams put up touchdowns? I mean, weird scores, right? 7-3, 7-2.

The best goalies in the NHL are not available right now in the postseason. What are your thoughts on the goaltending around the league, not just in this series? Well, it's funny. I had a Twitter interaction the other day with somebody that said, boy, you could take Patrick Law in his prime and put him in the league, not just in this series. Well, it's funny. I had a Twitter interaction the other day with somebody that said, boy, you could take Patrick Law and his prime and put them in the net and it wouldn't make a difference. And I was like, man, if you took Patrick Law and his prime in today's game,

you'd allow a snowman for sure. That's how much the game's changed. That's not throwing any shade to Patrick Law. That's just how much the game has evolved. And, like, guys, I'm kind of amazed to see the amount of scoring that has taken place because it's not just that it's not like the goalies have been bad. I just think that the teams have been forcing it. The number of turnovers across the board, like even from the good teams, like the Boston Bruins of all teams, the world's

greatest hockey team of all time in the regular season, the way they were throwing pucks away against the Florida Panthers was crazy, man. And I think you're seeing that across the board. It shows how young the league is and the goalies right now, as good as they've been as, as well as as they've shown in the last couple of years and raising save percentages and fighting against smaller gear, it's advantage shooter right now. And man, you look at some of these power plays look

at the oilers now they didn't have anything last night on the power play but you take the fact you factor in that they're clipping along over 50 that's stupid like we haven't seen that so um i think that's part of it you know power plays have become more dynamic the players are more skilled across the board and right now i truly believe the goalies are trying to catch up again to the shooters. And I'm not sure if we're entering a new normal at a nine, 10 being your good save percentage, or if the goalies will be able to update again, I think it's actually going to continue to regress a little bit. So Mike, uh, scores are overpaid if they're not scoring and goalies are overpaid if they're not winning. And then you've got Grubauer who was overpaid last year, but worth every penny this year.

And if you look down right now, he may be the best of the bunch for no other reason that he's been there and, and done it very recently with Colorado. Yep. Yeah. And I'm, you know, on it very recently with Colorado. Yep. Yeah. And I'm, you know, I'm not terribly surprised by Grubauer right now because I watched pretty closely down the stretch, his last seven, eight games. And it's pretty easy to just take a glance at the numbers and go, okay, well, you know,

he's about 900 safe percentage or 90% or maybe the 902. And you kind of think, well, he really sucked last year. So he must just have you on a good run and he still sucks. Like that seems to be what people get in their mindset of that. It's like you get one year that just doesn't work. And all of a sudden that's who you are. Let's face it, man. Seattle was nowhere last year. They just weren't. And they're a lot better this year. And I think it took group hour a little while to pick his confidence back up. I think he showed really well against Colorado, not just because they were his old team,

but because he also was feeling some of that confidence towards the end of the season. But you look at technical tweaks. I think he's been in more control. I think he's been more patient on his edges. I saw that in Aiden Hill last night in the Vegas game against Edmonton. He was more patient on his edges as well. And he was phenomenal. So, you know, for Grubauer, it probably was a good thing that he was hurt a

little bit this year because it let him dig in on the technical aspects of his game. Because to me, again, he looks, he looks patient and he looks cleaner in how he's playing and he's got a better team in front of him, guys. That helps more than anything with you. If you know, your boys can bail you out every now and then you don't feel like you have to do everything like grubauer probably felt last year that's pretty powerful so last one for me mike is i just want to get your thoughts on uh you know matt murray he's available for the toronto maple leafs and he's under contract for next season you know is this guy what did you think of the idea that he's available wasn't even the backup won't be playing tonight.

Kind of a weird predicament. The Leafs and him seem to be in with one another. Well, it's an odd one, isn't it? I mean, this is you pick up Matt Murray with two Stanley cup championships under his belt. And for all intents and purposes, he was supposed to be the guy this year. And you guys remember when we had this conversation in probably August, what's the number one concern? Can he stay healthy?

Is he going to be there when you need him? It doesn't even matter if he's wearing a glove or a mask. It's if he's in the net. And I hate this. I hate this analysis. I hate that this is reality. But the simple fact is that Matt Murray is a fragile goaltender. There's no other way to say it.

I hate that. I wish better. I wish different for him. He just can't seem to stay healthy. And when you're constantly caught up in the start-stop of rehabbing, playing, rehabbing, playing, you never find your groove, like we just talked about with Grubauer. And I think it's the right call by Sheldon Keefe and his staff to go to Joseph Wold not just because I think he's probably

the best and most consistent goalie that they have I think it's from the mere fact that he's been playing games you know that matters that was that matter with Laurent Persuall in Vegas he played 20 something games in the American League before he came up to the NHL he played more hockey this year than he had since he was a Winnipeg Jet five years ago. So, you know, I think that that's a real thing. If Matt Murray could stay healthy for a full season, man, who knows what you have. But I think right now there's just so many question marks surrounding him that, you know, if you're Keith, you're thinking, all right, it's Wall.

He's got to be our guy. We'll go to Murray if we have to, and then we'll sort out next year down the road. Because honestly, if you're thinking of Matt Murray being the number one goalie for the Toronto Maple Leafs next year, what does history say? History, like over the last four or five years, says he's going to miss half the year to injury or a third of the year to injury.

They're going to have to find another person. Maybe it's Joseph Wall, a really cost effective one, coming in at well under a million dollars a year. That wouldn't be a bad deal. Perfect for the rebuild. Oh my. Oh my. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, perfect for the rebuild oh my oh my well they

correct me if I'm wrong the Leafs didn't get Conor Bedard yesterday right the right to pick him first overall yesterday we'll save that conversation for another day hey Mike really appreciate your time as always great feedback

in the goaltending world. Enjoy the games and we'll catch up to you soon. Sounds great. Love coming on with you guys. Thanks as always for having me. Thanks, Mike. Mike McKenna, daily face-off hockey analyst, retired NHL, AHL, ECHL, and any other league you can think of.

There you go. Team Joseph Wall for McKenna. He loves him yeah i think uh i think we can all look at him and say that he is nhl caliber and he's nhl ready i don't know what he's gonna end up being no more than kyle dubas or sheldon ke. He's also been injury prone, by the way. Is he destined to be an NHL starter that could look at 45 or 50 games down the road? Or will he be a serviceable backup goalie?

No one really knows the answer to that. But at least fundamentally, he looks sound. Yeah, first time, long time, the Leafs have had a home grown or not you know draft pick developed type guy that they can hang their hat on cheap sammy loved your little rebuild comment there camper that's pretty funny first rookie goalie to start for the toronto maple leaf since felix pod. Did you hear the stat they said on the broadcast that during the game,

they were saying that he was looking to be the first goalie, first Leafs goalie to win in relief in a playoff game since Terry Sawchuck in 1967? And I was like, oh my God. It's happening. And then they was like, ah, Reinhardt. Nice course. Yeesh.

We got some freshly minted Sheldon Keefe comments. We also got Kachuk, too. So wherever you want to go. Hold on. I'm just going to put the new clips in. All right. So let's listen to Matthew Kachuk. What have you been doing this whole time?

Listening to McKenna. They're there. All all right we want to talk uh decor yeah and keep on changes well it's a pretty big pretty big uh change up so i think that's a good place to start yeah just looking to change the group up a little bit make it uh try and get brody on the on the left side and side and see if that can help us. And then also, you know, he and McCabe hasn't gone the way that we'd like it to here throughout both series, frankly. So just trying to change the chemistry of the group a little bit there. We have lots of flexibility within our defense to try different things.

And Brody and Hall have played a lot together throughout the season at different times and have done a really good job and you know Riley Shen have been really good for us so we want to maintain that so we fall on on McCabe and Lilligren and with Troy Daniels presence there as well it gives us a lot of options to be able to try different things and you know think that it's the timing's right to to change it up to me that is a uh position specific change where you look at who's on the panthers right side you know it's kachuk reinhardt even duclair those are your three right wingers and that's who brody is not seeing mccabe had been seeing those guys but brody on the not seeing mccabe had been seeing those guys but brody on the left side mccabe's been directly involved in like a lot five or six goals yeah

directly yeah so this says brody now seeing those guys which very good change here if you ask me listen it it's it's his last chance to get it right. Yeah. It is. And if he doesn't and they lose, it's a very big topic of discussion on either they were never good enough or you couldn't get it right. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, his future will hinge on being able to find these sorts of things and it's a pretty big change to ask mark giordano what was geo scratched for two three games this year not many yeah so you know like they're that's not a subtle move they're making here but it makes sense you can add up the other The other side is Luster Reign and Cousins. It's not as threatening.

White. You hear him saying all this stuff, and he mentioned Brody McCabe, and he said he didn't think they were that good in this series, and the other one, frankly, maybe don't wait until you're down 3-0. It's a good point, yeah. If you think they've been that bad,

maybe make a bit of an adjustment beforehand just a thought if you thought they've been like that's nine games now that they've played nine i go back to trade deadline that you've been moving guys around and looking for the right matchup and you know at the, at the end of the day, you don't, you didn't trade Shen. I'm sorry, you didn't trade Shen to play 20 minutes a night and be your top pairing with Morgan Riley. I'm sorry. If you did, then that says a lot about your blue line.

No, agreed there. It's, you know, they have 9D, if you ask them, 8D realistically. There's no reason to go forward with the same group when it's not working the problem is is like you got six of them acting like five and six d yeah no one's acting like a a legit second pair yeah like but riley and shan have been extreme i think r Riley's got the top pair. And then the rest of them are acting like five sixes and sevens. Yeah, you don't have another. Brody and McCabe have not been good enough for sure.

Definitely not a shutdown pair. Now the next theme here is the top guys not scoring. And we have Matthew Kachuk on that. Sammy, do you want to play that first, do you think? Sure. Yeah? Yeah, let's we have Matthew Kachuk on that. Sammy, do you want to play that first, do you think? Sure. Yeah? Yeah, let's hear from Matthew Kachuk on that. I haven't scored either, so I don't know what the big deal is about.

It's not about individuals here. It's not about personal stats. I mean, I can't speak for them. I mean, I guess I know those guys very well. They're very, very, very dangerous players and have been their whole careers. So some guys that we really got to keep an eye on and try to limit as much as possible. But, yeah, obviously great players and have been for a while.

So definitely guys that we're focusing on and preparing for each and every game. Yeah, it's not about it when you're up 3-0 game yeah it's not about it when you're up three nothing but it's all about it when you're down three nothing it is crazy the way we've been talking about kachok day hasn't scored yet which sucks for the leafs it does suck you know you draw up the scenarios for the leafs matthew kachok no goals through three games and you're down 3-0 probably isn't the top of your list for ideal scenarios.

No, I would say that was not how they drew it up. Do you want to go to Sheldon then to get him to weigh in on the same topic? Yep. Those guys carried us offensively through the Tampa series and came through at clutch times, scored us big goals, big moments. We're here playing

largely on the backs of how they came through for us in those moments. They'll come through for us again. But our team needs to take care of this situation right now. Everybody has to play their role, give us everything that they have, win one game, bring this thing back to Toronto, and give us more time for all these other things to come together, you know.

We've got to win one game. Listen, he's – they carried you against Tampa Bay, but they carried you all year long. I think that's the most inspired I've been by Sheldon. Let's go. Right? He's got the kid gloves on still. This is the first time all season that four of them haven't scored in three consecutive games.

Is that right? Yeah. I didn't know that. It's the longest drought that all four of them haven't put the puck in the net, one of them. Yeah. Pretty incredible, actually. Great timing. That's how much they've carried you and that's

how much you've had the weight of the world on their shoulders yeah and we kept you think any other uh top teams are different where your top four players go four games without scoring very often probably not that common yeah um yeah listen i get it i get it but i don't think it's a coincidence by the way that the problem is for me is that glad you said is that when they don't score like they're deemed failures and there's other things that you can add to your game that i think is missing for them right now. It's they're built to either score or be failures. And there's nothing in between for them. Well,

if you have guys that don't, that aren't physical or gritty or whatever, and they're offensive guys, and that's what you pay them to do. Then when you don't score, you are a failure. That's it is free. I'm watching last night.

And it wasn't a great, not a great night for Connor McDavid at all or Edmonton in general. And listen, they're coming off. I don't know what they spent four days in Vegas. And, you know, I mean, they didn't settle in back home. Maybe it takes a game to adjust. But I still see him running Petrangelo from behind on a pretty nasty hit. And it'd be nice to have a presence outside of scoring for a few guys on the Leafs.

Yeah, for sure. You know, at the end of the day for this group, though, more than other groups, it is scoring. For sure, McDavid hitting someone, that's great. But it is scoring. I had a funny conversation with my dad talking about the leafs stars going quiet and he said that you know when they would go uh to play the oilers he said the only thing l arbor wanted to do was beat the crap out of wayne gretzky and he's like and it worked you know gretzky had three points in the three assists no goals in the cup final where the islanders swept them and their whole goal just beat up those stars that's what's happening to

the leafs right where it's like shut down key on beat up those stars and hopefully they go quietly into the night when i watch the leafs right now in the locker room, and Eddie Olchuk talked about it today on our show, how the rink shrinks. Right now, they don't necessarily have the guys that can drive to the middle of the ice. The back pressure to me is a huge story for Florida. And the Leafs and Marner, he he likes his control he likes to turn up he likes to find the trailers there's no room for him to do that and i think the one time that we

did see it was the other night when willie turned up and found august of sin yeah and the two one goal yeah but those are far and few He actually was pressured on that turn up. He made a nice sauce to make it happen. Great sauce, great edges. One of the few times that they got away from the back pressure. They got it off the wall and into the middle. But if they're chasing from behind, and you're forced to drive to the middle of the ice,

they don't necessarily want to go there. No. That's not their strength. It's not. And you would agree with this, where you don't necessarily want to go there no that's not their strength it's not and you would agree with this where you don't get to say well they're defending us well so what do you want us to do you know no you got to find another way right that's i think that's exactly the criticism is like what is the alternative method of creation you know that we can find here and and i think that's why i found it that's why that's why nize

had early success because he's a bigger body that's already used to playing a style of hockey that he likes to he likes to have the body uh contact he can play off of the body contact he can still skate a puck out of a corner taking a few hits that's your core four don't play like that yeah and i would agree there and you know i talked about second chance opportunities like the willingness to be there as the butchers stand there and want to chop and make it tough to be there that that's gotta they gotta find that element to their game here. Otherwise it won't be going back to Toronto. We do have one more from Sheldon. He talked about, you know, trying not to focus on the big picture,

but just game four for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I don't think it makes any sense for us to sit here and focus on coming all the way back. Because there's only one game on the schedule right now. So let's focus on that one game. We need to win that one game and then we can kind of take it from there we're looking to build some positive momentum here as a team and with the one game that's on the schedule that's where our focus is yeah i would have i wouldn't have gone farther than the first shift to be honest with you yeah just build just build get get everybody through the rotation get everybody

feeling good get through the first get through the second and and and work on baby steps here because that's what it takes for uh teams to to get some consecutive wins here it's funny we've seen some teams come out in this playoffs and say uh actually we're not as bad as we've looked so far you know i saw the oilers come out in game two of their series and just be the better team and win handily uh the devil's down to nothing came out in game three and just absolutely took it to carolina you know the the leafs had that sort of effort in game two and that's really where boborovsky stole one for them but that element is there for them they can be that team it's just you know getting the positive momentum going a little bit and

you know like i said you win one you win two and all of a sudden things feel different so there you go let's'll start somewhere, right? Not Sammy's looking at you, shaking his head. Sammy has nothing to do with any positivity, but he's a kick rocks pal. We heard from the Colorado Avalanche today about their captain, Gabriel Landis-Cogg, will undergo cartilage transplant in his right knee

and will be lost and is expected to miss the entire 23-24 season there is your awful prototypical star in the playoffs right there like that guy is the be all end all you want to talk about colorado's stanley cup win yes mckinnon and macar but this guy was right beside him not behind him right beside them he's going to go two and a half years of his career prime between hockey games like when he steps on the ice at the start of the 24 25 season i don't see that happening. You don't, eh? No. You know, I said that to someone earlier.

No. It's tough to see him. Listen. Card luge transplant. I'll be honest, guys. I've never heard of that. Card luge transplant. There's another word for this.

It's called Hail Mary surgery. Yeah. And that's what this is for him. I think if he can walk a golf course, then the surgery would be a success. Really? That's dire, hey? Listen, people want to talk about players being greedy.

This is why you go and get every dime you can because you don't know when something like this can happen and end your career can he make some sort of insurance claim beyond the contract he's owed he's if i'm not mistaken he he's got six more years no does he really contract i don't think there's an insurance issue at all here. I was just wondering, like, you know, let's say his contract expired in two years. You know, can you say, I would have played until I was X? Yeah.

He's owed $7 million until 28, 29. Yeah. There you go. Now, if I'm not mistaken, this really stemmed out of the bubble where he got cut. Do you remember that? No. Yeah.

I don't. Yeah, he had a skate cut. And I think what had happened is that it had an effect on his knee. And obviously, so he played with it when they won the cup. Yes, he did. Yeah. And he shouldn't have, probably. Yeah.

But, you know, he's this mule. Yeah. Tough guy, wants to play through it. And in the meantime, what had happened, I think it started to destroy the cartilage in his knee. Oh. That's what happened. Sorry, I didn't know my mic was on there

it started it started but he's so big and strong and he this is a typical guy trying to you know do the right thing by his team yeah and uh and that's why he needs a cartilage transplant right now because he's got no cartilage. That's awful, man. And in 20 playoff games last year, 11 goals and 11 assists. Wow. Yeah. At least he's going to, you know, I'm happy he's got that contract to fall back on.

Yeah, you get a cup, you get your contract. Sad and frustrating. It's really so much more to give. Yeah. He's 30. He's 30. He he's 30 prime of his career man yeah with the contract he'll have over 100 million in career earnings though that helps listen um and some guys can play 20 years not get a sniff on the stanley cup i'm glad yeah he got that feeling now so big effect for the Colorado Avalanche, though.

You know, like this is a team that I kind of thought, you know, is he going to come back for playoffs this year? The easy part is moving his money off the books. The hard part is finding another Landis cog. That's the hard part. It is. You know, if the Leafs have a postseason fire sale all of a sudden there's a team with who's competitive now who has cap space who might say maybe they need a fellow swede

well whoever you said who you sending over there uh he said neil andrew with a swede joke but you know could it be marner could it be matthews mean, a lot of it has to do with the media. It's the media's fault, according to Marner. He doesn't listen. Yeah, he doesn't listen. Am I missing something here? He just made a comment today in the media. The same, we don't listen to you guys.

We don't care what you guys say. You know, you're down. That pisses you off. It does. You're down 3-0 in a series and you're done pisses you off it does you're down three on a series and you're yeah but you know bad things about us it's like yeah maybe just worried it hasn't been a he's six uh consecutive years of hearing the same narrative they they know that what's coming they're not stupid guys yeah so he's got his guard up already and he's the only one that probably hears it the most matthews will go to arizona but this guy will walk the streets and hear it every day yep he knows it win win win yeah Yeah. Avoid, avoid, avoid. Yeah. Avoid, avoid, avoid.

Avoid the narrative. Just find a way to win. One game tomorrow night. All right. So tonight we got two matches on the docket. What do we got? Carolina and New Jersey and Dallas, Seattle. Were you guys on the Devils right now and all of a sudden kind of switching it on carolina a little bit here speaking of big games you know you mentioned this earlier that you felt like

you know seattle needs to go up 3-1 here i i feel like it's a big one for carolina too you only don't want to get new jersey get that momentum going like they did in round one like carolina wins tonight they come back back and do it. Squash them? Yeah. I like it. All right, just like that. Two hours up.

Our thanks to Charlie Rumeliotis. Opa. Blackhawk Insider giving us the Conor Bedard goods. Eddie Olchuk, of course. Opa! Friend of the show, Mike McKenna. Always doing great work. sammy one more sleep and then game four we're working on that he wouldn't even know i know we're working on sammy sammy will be

very optimistic by tomorrow night i promise you get him on board all right thanks for everybody joining us and we're back tomorrow on real kipper and born