Real Kyper & Bourne - Debuts to Forget in Edmonton

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee recap the Maple Leafs loss to the Edmonton Oilers, if there's a negative trend from Toronto's top guys with their effort in games that matter, where's the concern meter for Ilya Samsonov, if there was a scenario to add Jonathan Quick to their goaltender roster, and the debuts for Jake McCabe. Sportsnet.ca's Eric Francis stops by (42:25) to discuss the goaltending woes in Calgary, if the Flames players are all in for playing under head coach Darryl Sutter, what will the organization do ahead of the trade deadline, and Brad Treliving's future with the team. New York Rangers analyst Steve Valiquette (1:07:26) jumps on to share how the fanbase feels about the team's long-term chances in the final stretch of the season, his assessment of the organization acquiring former Blackhawk Patrick Kane, and if he would rather see New York face the Carolina Hurricanes or New Jersey Devils in the playoffs. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is real Kipper and board on Sportsnet 590 the van. We are exactly 24 hours away from a trade trade deadline day and we've seen some big names disappear from the board, but they keep coming. The hits just keep on coming. Tyler Batuzzi this morning from Detroit to the Boston Bruins. We're going to get into that and so much more. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Dave Sissboomba, and Sammy McKee. The next two hours, we're glad you're aboard wherever you're watching, listening, iTunes, Spotify, YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, Sportsnet 590. The fan, you are here.

And we are glad that's the case. Leafs, Oilers. Can't think of a more anticipated game. And I'll bring you and Sammy first first and then we'll get to jb but in the last few years the hype over this one the the major trades the work the build up and then for leaf nation sheldon said it best. Disappointed. That stunk. Bad.

That was not enjoyable for one second. From the drop of the puck until the end of the game, it was very obvious who was going to win that game. And the team that did win was the team. And they were very good, and the Leafs were very bad, and it hurt. I was very excited about that game. I was juiced up, ready to rock, as I talked about yesterday on the show. And I don't know, the Springsteen flu, they had a couple too many cocktails. I don't know, they were chugging too many Starbucks while they were in Seattle.

I don't know what the hell happened, but they laid an absolute egg, fellas. JB, is there a chance Sammy and Leaf nation will make too much out of this yeah for sure there is there there's an absolute chance but you know you start at the first checkpoint which it was that was a thorough comprehensive ass kicking from the edmonton oilers who looked fantastic on in all facets of the game i couldn't believe how much it felt like mcdavid and dry saddle were on the much it felt like McDavid and Dreisaitl were on the ice. It felt like they played 40 minutes last night. Their best guys were unbelievable.

And the Leafs, you know, I don't even say it on the air, but hockey coaches say it all the time. They didn't piss a drop. There was nothing. No moment of life. No pushback. Nothing. When you look at the scoring, though,

Dreisaitl and Nugent Hopkins, I think they ended up with a point each, but really, one guy just ran you over, and that was Connor McDavid. And we know where the eyeballs are and the TV crews, I get it. Sportsnet wants to sell this thing big time they want to match up mcdavid versus matthews and i saw last night one guy who who took on that challenge who lived up to that challenge i saw one guy look across at another guy and say,

you know that MVP award that should have been mine last year? I'm going to jam it down your throat tonight. And that's the biggest look I got last night, is that Austin didn't answer the bell against McDavid on a big stage last night. Yeah. Now,avid is feeding everyone their lunch is five straight games with two goals which uh ken reed had a great line last night on sportsnet central which was like if the only person you're behind in a stack category is

named punch you're doing pretty good you know it's an old record at that point i think it's 1920 punch broad bent i think it's 1920 punch broad bent. I think it's at six, two goal games in a row. So you don't align with Newsy alone. That's it. So yeah, I mean, David's doing the thing, but you're right. I mean, there was nothing there. The Leafs generated in 60 minutes of hockey last night,

one high danger chance oh they're high danger chances from the last five games are 21 18 18 12 10 and one well it's not good they had 10 high danger against the kraken was that correct yeah and actually i i actually skipped one there sorry against the wild they only had five so those two are their lowest totals of the year five and and then one. Five is their second lowest. One last night. One feels high. One. One.

They've had teams in the 20s. I'm just trying to think of the goal that they did score, what they came off of. I guess, you know. Marner shot it in on the flank. Yeah, and then the other one was everyone thought it was offside and camp. Yeah.

I guess that's the one that's in the slot yeah that was it all right um we know we're gonna get some some meat off of uh sheldon's clips oh boy today yeah because that one he felt that one but i want to hear more i want to hear from you before sheldon okay. Okay. Do you think that, are you, you asked me if I think it's a, at the risk of making too big a deal out of it. Yeah. Do you take anything from last night? First game with new guys? I'm okay with it.

All losses suck. In terms of new faces coming in, the room spinning a little bit. I can buy that a little bit. I'm not ready to sell out their whole season based on what i saw last night and we we know they're better and they do have a reputation of not letting bad losses linger too long they they turn them into two and three four game winning streaks pretty quick here uh but we i i just think uh they were missing an emotional element last night they didn't have to be crisp they didn't have to look clean but there was an emotional uh

element that is concerning and i am with sheldon in terms of not the new guys here just the the old guys, the guys that I'm supposed to count on right now. And I don't know how long I want to keep waiting on watching Matthews become the guy that I know. And to the same extent, Morgan Riley. These are two of my most important guys. One's up front, one's on the blue line and I didn't get much emotion out of them last night to me that's that's a concern you know

you're you're you're 20 games in yeah there are 20 games uh last 20 games here we got to start seeing something more out of these guys on longer stretches to get ready for game one. And that's going to be Sheldon's challenge. Now, there's other elements of the game last night I'm also concerned about. But the loss, not so much losing to Edmonton, but the emotional attachment that I thought should have been there is not. And Sheldon should address it today for sure.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you in that I'm not going to make a huge deal out of it. Sometimes you have bad nights. That happens. It doesn't go your way. You don't feel good, whatever it is. It happens. But I'm with you.

I think you really hit the nail on the head with Matthews, nothing. Marner, sorry, not Marner, Riley is a concern for me now. Yeah. You know, where it almost feels like you need to protect him a little bit or shelter him in some way. You know, sometimes when a star player gets hurt, the rest of the team picks it up and then you get a great performance from your guys.

Yeah. This felt like the star players being like, oh, I'm excited to watch these new players play. Everyone's going to sit back and watch, you know, Jake McCabe do his thing and Sam Lafferty play rather than play. They didn't play last night. All right, let's go to Sheldon.

We'll just start with the main reason why they weren't in the game from the get-go. Let's listen to Sheldon Keith. We played it. We just didn't play with any purpose or intelligence that's better than soft and purposeless the year before it's the same thing it's close it's right that's soft and purposeless well no purpose is the same intelligence is very different from calling your team soft yeah i guess you're probably right. But it's very similar. Yeah, in terms of very displeased from the coach.

That's as disappointing as it gets for a guy that has watched, you know, a quarter of his team out, new guys in that are supposed to drag other people into the fight. And I'm certainly not pinning anything on Lafferty and, you know, Noel Achari or even McCabe, right? But where is that we're all in this together now feel last night? That was missing. Yeah. And, you know, you could see those guys trying to do

something mccabe had the accidental cross check to nurse's head just about and lafferty you know there are moments where they showed a little bit of fire and engagement but you know i am a little worried about all the different things we want to see happen with this group whether it's different d pairs different line combinations power play units like there's a lot to get sorted out and it feels pretty i don't know it feels pretty scrambled right now trying to get sorted like lafferty last night you know sammy and i were talking like liked his energy had the puck on a couple two and ones but made a couple of plays that you make on on losing teams you know turns the puck over while he's going up for a change not a very good effort on the dump and it goes back the other way they score not a big deal was that the uh um the fourth one yeah i think it was the fourth one

he doesn't get it deep at the red right before he steps off the ice and it's no big deal happens 10 times you're probably fine but you just don't do it so there's some concerns for me just about them do they have time to find what it's going to be this cohesive unit i will say that lafferty like you immediately don't miss angvall because of lafferty yeah like he just he's got that same pace he's got that he's he's hard to miss yes on his case and pk and you see him and he'll at least get at you and he goes he goes in the northern direction as opposed to turning south people hate the engvall turnaround yeah i do i do i really do and i think lafferty turn up oh man i'm not gonna miss his turn the neutral zone i'm gonna bring this back to our turn up

i never like i never like eating turnips and i don't like turnips and turn up engville should we have a way in on j on Jake McCabe's first night before we get more into clips? You know what? I want to stick with just the overall feel of the game, and then we'll start breaking down a few guys, okay? I'm in. All right, let's go to Keith on just the overview of the game.

Yeah, it's tough to get a... To me, our opponent tonight was very focused and very committed to play together to win the game. I thought our guys we started fine but just the way we started to penalty kill against the number one power play in the history of the NHL

and get our first exit and give it right back to them like we're not serious about winning when that's the case and it has nothing to do those are our regular penalty killers. Those are our top people. That's how we started the game. And it didn't get much better from there. Keefe's a little dramatic sometimes.

Did he call out Marner? Him and Kampf, I think. He called them out for not just getting the puck down the ice. Calling it not just the best power play, but the best power play in the history of the NHL was dramatic for me. But yeah, you know the play. We watched it. It actually is. I know, I know. but marner has the puck on sort of a two on three and tries to make a play which he makes nine times out of ten turns it over they go back and score on a rush

yeah that's i see sheldon needs to pick his battles better there he he does not need to to call out marner on that yeah i i'm not a fan of that at all this guy you know what he's all about on the penalty kill you love him on the penalty kill you can argue that he's the best penalty killer brad marchand's one of the is the best penalty killer in my opinion in the league him and marner are unbelievable here and it's it's not even it's not even a turnover I know it's a turnover to go back and score but you you mentioned it it's a one-on-two right so he's got a defender and he's got a back checker you've turned it over 10 feet inside their blue line which means that if I'm watching two oilers on one marner you're still three on three back there it's not the turnover that that killed you it's it's the three on three

that that hurt you yeah but i i get the idea though that keith is saying you know that's a tone setter for them in terms of doing the right things and playing a good game. I agree that the turnover is not egregious by any means. I can't stay with them, but I get the idea that we're trying to set the tone, you know, the, yeah.

And you can talk about the goaltender, you know, slide into the corner to try to make a save off the goal line. Yeah. Didn't, didn't bail them out. And the other thing with, with Sheldon is he wants to blanket everybody.

It's like, okay, you got 20 games to get ready for the first round here. It's okay if you use names. Like, Marner's a goal and an assist last night. He was the best out of all of them. Not even close. Okay. By far the best. By far. Like he is most nights. Well, yeah. Stop it. Not even close. Okay. By far the best. By far.

Like he is most nights. Well, yeah. Stop it. Yeah, he's good. He's really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the other guys are really, not everything's a Marner referendum.

Tavares. Okay. Ryan O'Reilly and Willie were dogs last night. Yes. They got smoked. Yeah. They got smoked. The Matthews-Marner bunting line was on for the bulk of the chance against that line was on for absolutely nothing created like you want to

call out marner on on that turnover on a tone go watch three one to four one Hyman's goal. Just watch it one more time. And watch where Willie Nylander is when Hyman ends up with the puck. His feet are gone. He's cheating again. And he's left it completely open for Hyman. No mention of that. Right? No mention of that. Right? No mention of that. It's 3-1.

I think you're upset about the wrong thing here. 4-1 is over. 3-1, you're in the game. 4-1, you want to cheat out of the zone? Right. It's over. I just don't understand. When can you call guys out, your best guys,

for making plays that aren't helping the team? we were saying their top six wasn't good enough he found that a tone-setting moment from what you know the guy who's been their best leaf this year the mvp of their team at some point you got to say we need more from everyone he got to have a thicker skin if you can't take a comment from the coach he's he is he still scarred from the beginning of the year where he had to tell me he had to come back and you know apologize i guess yeah i don't know he certainly changed his tone for a while didn't he like in terms of calling out these guys we didn't hear him really weigh in on the top guys too much other than to over praise at times typically when well they've been really good that's a lot of the year there's not a lot of reasons but last night

it was a night to call out all your top guys like i think you could have done a a sort of a blanket statement here like you can't be like oh and the top guys and not marner but like you could definitely call out the top guys to the effort last night because it just felt like there was a lot of puck watching there was one play in the defensive zone where the the puck was on the boards I think it was O'Reilly I think it was Giordano and I forget who the other guy was and they all just kind of like had the moment where they looked at each other and they're like are you going or am I gonna go and they just kind of like stuck in mud they looked boys, boys, they looked hungover. I don't know.

They looked, the puck watching last night was unbelievable. You know, I see people on Twitter being Leafs fans talking about this team in the moments you're supposed to be excited. Every time you get fired up, like we talked yesterday, they've had eight games to eliminate an opponent. And they haven't got it done. And in those moments, not being able to be the better team. Last night felt like one of those games. I don't agree with that. I see.

I don't either. You think a game one against Tampa Bay, they come out and win five nothing. Pretty big moment there, I would argue. So I don't think it's true that the top guys don't show up all the time in big moments. But I don't know. Do you think it's a trend with the top guys? You tell me they find a way to have two or three nights like that and they lose in the first round in six or seven games?

Yeah. Yeah, we're lining them up for character flaws. Yeah. For sure. Talented guys, but just don't bring it when they need to. And this has been an ongoing thing with those guys. And talented, arguably some of the most talented players in history for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

The numbers, the records, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Just can you win when you're supposed to win? Yeah. And that, it's going to come down to it. And it won't matter. Last night was a perfect example of what will happen if they don't get out of the first round.

You ain't going back there and saying, well, that Lafferty should have been given a little. We need a little bit more from Lafferty and Achari. You know, come on, Achari. Where was Achari? You're right. No, they're going to go back and they're going to go Matthews, Willie, Marner, and Tavares, and Riley. Yeah.

Those are the five guys that will get hammered. And last night should have been a little bit warm up. Like Sheldon should have gone back to them and going guys if if you're feeling it today about last night wait in the first round oh yeah that's a reminder to you what it's going to be like in terms of media coach talking about yeah point like it's right it's a warm-up it's a warm-up you know what scares me though is it reminds me of a point that i've made several times is that can you tape grit and character to the core if the guys who play 21 minutes a night don't have it well that's i mean right then that is the most

horrifying sentence spoke today well because it's true you know you can like i mean and listen say what you will about dubas and say what you what you will about the bottom half of the lineup and how he he's had a lot of different versions of the bottom half of the toronto maple leafs like there's been a few holdovers here and there but he has mix and match the bottom six to go along with his core and none of it has worked to get past the first round right so there's something there anyways matthews will always be tagged, I believe, as the second best talented player in the world. Yeah. Behind Connor.

If he's lucky, he'll be called that. No, no, no. Right now? Name me a player more talented than Austin Matthews besides Connor McDavid. Pure talent. It's a tough oneid pure talent it's a tough one sorry that's a tough one i'm just thinking like i'm telling you it's fine he's there i'd put my kid in there we we can we can talk about different players and saying okay one one a or whatever but you get my point he's in that he's in the top five he's in in the handful. Yeah. He's there. But what is constantly missing with this guy?

It's just a little bit of edge. Can he get pissed off? Can he get upset? Can we just see some emotion out of him besides this amazing talent? Yep. It's a great point. It's a great point that is coming, you know, as the sample size gets large enough, you know,

you see games where Connor is, you know, they lose to Boston the other night and you see him in his interview after the game and he's ready to jump off a bridge and games where he says, I'm just, I'm willing this team over the line. Just scored my 50th goal. I don't care. I do not care. Don't care. And not that I'm saying Matthews over the line. Just scored my 50th goal. I don't care. I do not care. Don't care.

And not that I'm saying Matthews cares about that stuff. He doesn't. Few people have Conor's obsession with winning. The same way that Crosby had an obsession with winning. I don't even mean it as a criticism that he's not weirdly obsessed with it the way that some people are. But he is different, it feels like, in terms of the passion in those. And the problem is if you don't have any edge,

if you rarely get pissed off, then you start getting accused of being disengaged. Yeah. Which is, it's felt that way on a couple of more than a couple of nights this season for austin oh yeah that he does look like he's disengaged the talent is there hey score a goal shoot a 40-foot wrist shot yeah we we can still see it but you know there are moments where uh if it's connect me earlier this year or ben charron little rag doll in them in the first round of the playoffs it's not a normal response just to kind of let it roll off your back i wonder though i wonder if this has not been surprising

for matthews a guy who everything has it has come to him eventually right like he has excelled what he went over to switzerland he he's won everything you know individual awards along the way he's the first overall pick it just it comes easy to him and then you get to the nhl and all these guys have been most of them have been superstars and whatever, and it takes another level of determination and commitment. Even Connor McDavid hasn't been handed Stanley Cups. And I'm wondering now if some of this stuff is not eye-opening that, man, you really got to dig in, even the best in the world.

We see edge and the ability to be pissed off out of McDavid, Nathan McKinnon. Come on. Weirdly obsessed with winning. And like. Broke his hand in a fight last year. Pissed off in Edge. Yeah. Kudrov. Kucherov.

Kucherov. Crosby. Marchand. Yeah, I don't know. Kucherov's not one for me. Marchand. In terms of being nasty and obsessed with winning? No, not obsessed with winning.

His body language. Some days he's like, hey. I mean, it's just, it's the one thing that's missing out of Austin's game. Yeah. You're right. I mean, I can't sit here and disagree with you. And I'm also not saying that that's why they lost last night alone. But it is a, we've had enough.

No, this is big picture stuff here. You'd think in a game where, like you said, Kipper, you're going up against a guy that is perceived. It's the, you're the first overall picks. It's this matchup. It's this head-to-head big canadian you know matchup between these two fan bases tons of vitriol between them and you go down five two or something you know like crosby or somebody might cross check somebody in the face on the face but like get them in the back or like there might be a slash

or they might be mean or getting a scr. That game fell over when it was over. It was 3-1, 4-1. Me and Jay were just sitting on the couch last night and I said when they were down 5-1, I was like, could somebody just do something stupid? Could somebody go out there and just, you know. Entertain me. No, just seem like you're pissed off. And I thought these new guys were kind of like gritty guys that are like in your face and mad it just seemed like they didn't really care that they were getting hosed i i

think there's some figuring out going on here still yeah you know game one with those guys okay what do they call that thing uh defcom defcon defcon yeah one to five right yeah did the number change before the game for Samsonov and the Leafs goaltending situation? Does it go up when it's more dangerous? Defcon 5 is the lowest threat. Defcon 1 is like. Okay.

Where are we on the Defcon chart of Samsonov being your goalie? So is Defcon, is it just like all of it's bad being your goalie. So is DEFCON, is it just like all of it's bad? Yeah. Okay. Five's not as bad. No, five's a country club. We're going to the beach. One, we're

looking for a bomb shelter. I thought he was really good after he let in four. He was, actually. He made a lot of saves, which speaks worse to the Leafs than anything, is that they kept giving him chances. I thought he really cleaned it up after he let in four. He was, actually. He made a lot of saves, which speaks worse to the Leafs than anything is that they kept giving him chances. I thought he really cleaned it up after he let in four, but... Listen, we've been talking about this all...

I don't know how many times we can say it. It was very concerning for me. I agree, Kipper. He couldn't find his net if he had a searchlight. There's two versions of Samson. There's two versions of samson show today and i don't disagree i agree again there's two versions of him the one where like you go you can tell very early on with him i feel like with the with the eye test if he's solid not moving around a whole lot he's kind of just like

he's quiet you're not seeing a lot of movement but when he's off he gets flying side to side and it's like he seems like he loses his net and loses the puck and it's like that's the one i don't like seeing that's the scary one for me so i don't know i'm not the same defcon i was yesterday today last night didn't change anything for me i've been worried about this since the start of the year yeah i i don't because there's no available solution i tend not to overthink those ones and just cross my fingers. I thought there was a solution in Jonathan Quick before Vegas picked him up hours ago. Over Samsonov?

No, not over Samsonov. Just to reinforce the whole thing. You'd rather have Quick than Murray is what you're saying. Listen. Pull that. People would rather have Quick or Murray. I think, in all honesty i think that if you were able to kind of massage your roster a little bit get columbus to pick 50 up get

somebody else to pick up 25 i think there could have been a scenario where you just brought in quick in and you could have kept matt murray and you could have kept samson off and do the three goalie thing like you did uh with with riddick yeah and i hated that 50 so i've gone on record saying i i hate that but under the scenario of everything that we've seen kyle dubas and brendan shanahan do that you've gone this far yeah to now do nothing for your for your goaltending situation and to leave it as is and leave it that exposed when you've gone this far to me is

asinine. Quick has been very bad this year. What's that? Quick has been very bad. He has, but he's definitely the type of crazy, vengeful, arrogant guy that you would love to have in the playoffs. And he's a Stanley Cup champion. He's also an 8-78.

He's just another veteran. I just can't imagine a scenario. I want to be so wrong about the Leafs goalie situation. I want Matt Murray to be healthy and to all of a sudden go on this great run and show this prowess and whatever. I just don't want to be right about the goalie situation and i would feel much better if it wasn't let me tell you my fear if it wasn't um murray and wool behind him my fear is tonight they play the flames the flames have the biggest difference between real goals and expected goals as in their expected goals is very high but they don't finish they can't finish a lick

this team they barely pass the puck all the shots are straight on tonight the expected ones become real well no my fear is that tonight joe wool goes in the real ones stay down he looks great because they can't finish a lick and they go joel's good enough we're good with wool we're fine they reach their conclusion tonight wool plays well tonight and they go we don't need someone or he gets lit up well at least you have some time to do something at that point i that's best case their conclusion tonight. We'll play as well tonight. And they go, we don't need someone. Or he gets lit up. Well, at least you have some time to do something at that point. That's best case scenario. He gives up a dozen.

Well, you can still defuse the ball while it's ticking. Oh, my gosh. I don't know what's out there now. And that was like the best of a bad situation with Jonathan Quick. And I'm not suggesting that he would have come in here and taken Samsonov.

You can still groom Samsonov, and you could actually just leave Matt Murray in, and at least if Matt Murray disappears again, I'd rather go to Jonathan Quick than Wall. Oh, yeah. No, I would too. I mean, yeah. Yeah.

But that's what we're talking about. My fear is that Matt Murray... When you put it that way. Yeah. Matt Murray's what we're talking about. My fear is that Matt Murray. When you put it that way. Yeah. Matt Murray. Do we have comments from Keefe on Murray? We do have a little comment. Well, let's go to Keefe on leaving Samsonov in first,

and then we'll bounce it to Matt Murray. No, he needs to stay in there. It's going to be Joe Wall's game tomorrow. So this is the type of game against this type of opponent that he needs to stay in there for all right i agree might as well hang him out there and say hey figure it out he kind of figured it out he got better as the night went on but imagine that type of game out of samson off to go down 3-2 in the series. You want to go back to him? Or you ready to say next man up?

It depends if Murray's available or not. This is what kills me with Murray. Okay, now let's play the Murray clip on his update. No, we're not going to play the Murray clip just yet. But what kills me, but yeah, okay, now we're ready for the Murray clip. Let's do it. Yeah, I think he's close. Tomorrow's going to be a scheduled day off for him.

But he's been doing really well. I think he'll again on on friday and just continue to progress from there but everything's been positive first off why do they schedule a day off for him the day before trade deadline um but what kills me is he hasn't played since september or sorry january 17th from a non-incident he just tweaked an ankle in warm-up and he hasn't played in six weeks we're talking about practice we're talking about not even warm-up is less taxing and here's the other here's the other thing i discovered here is that like samsonov's issue right now he's playing too much. Think so? I think if you go back, the best case scenario where it was trending and moving was, at best case scenario between Murray and Samsonov

when Murray was healthy was 2-1, right? Two starts for every one for the other guy. You can't count on Samsonov to go long stretches here. He needs rest. He needs practices. He needs a mental break. This is why I'm scared to just leave it in the hands of a Matt Murray. It's interesting.

If you look at his elite prospects page or hockey debut or whatever, every time he plays like 20 to 30 games in the season, he has high numbers. And every time he's over sort of 35 to 40 and numbers get up there, his season stats aren't good. I don't know if high volume of workload just doesn't work for him or if that's a coincidence, which is very possible. But, yeah, he wasn't great last year in playing 44 times. He was an 896.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe workload does play into it for him in which case if biting my fingernail isn't looking at goaltending options out there he is not doing his job hard agree okay hard agree hard agree but we are in the minority elliot last night on we've been talking about this since like october boys elliot on tv last night said he the leafs aren't pursuing a goalie so here's what i think that's a that's a mistake listen with all due respect to elliot i don't believe it yeah i think they see murray as a deadline addition that's what they're saying they're saying to themselves we're getting

murray back it's as good as you know we'd bet on him if he was on another team and we were looking for a goalie we'd bet on murray as much as the next guy so why not just better with you if kyle had been on the planet pluto the last two years because that is not trading for somebody yeah who finds a way to disappear on you yeah no it's uh it's a concern okay i know third period yes jake mccabe you want to talk about him no not yet okay one more for me oh we're running out of time okay we need a show today i'll be quick here but the third period i know kyle alluded to it being kind of like garbage time or just didn't really matter to him but we did see a scenario where it was one two three in the center ice position yeah we did with rhino riley tavaris and matthews riley played with lafferty and kerfurt yeah they were excellent they were

awesome yeah and like that shouldn't not uh it shouldn't just be a throwaway here. I wholeheartedly agree with you guys that, to me, that could shape up. Love the idea of always having a star on the ice, or at least an elite brain if you don't think O'Reilly's a star. Yeah, no, and it just, you know, you may say it's a small sample size that he's going off of but he's never seen any of these guys ever play together so it's like you see what was it three good shifts those guys have together it's like that's enough to go again tonight like would you

guys i'm gonna be surprised if we go into the game tonight here and it's not those three guys down the middle again i agree one more before we cape and that is the one thing that's still out there, guys. The left side. And watching Michael Bunting, disappointed in Michael Bunting last night. Did not notice him. He didn't piss anybody off either. He wasn't in anyone's face. He wasn't, we didn't get that, that bunting look last night.

Yeah. I agree. He got elbowed in the mouth by Dreisaitl and like went up to him and kind of like grabbed onto his jersey a little bit. And then Dreisaitl kind of like looked at him, just skated away. I was like, oof, that's a tough look for bunting. Here we go. Two key ads last night in both hockey games.

Ekholm for Oilers and McCabe on the blue line. JB, where do you want to start? I want to start with McCabe because I think we got to, we owe it to Leafs fans. I thought he looked really nervous. You know, I,

two, two thoughts. I thought he looked like a player that, that is a good player. Skates well, nice size. Like I, I like a lot about his, he looks like someone who's a player to me. I good player skates well nice size like i like a lot about his he

looks like someone who's a player to me i thought he played poorly last night um a few times just the leafs at least are really crisp aren't they like talented guys they get the puck up they go i thought a little slow with decision making and a lot of pucks started coming back his way um yeah i just thought you know first game I understand that he would be nervous. It's a big spot, a lot of attention. I didn't think he was great last night. You, Kip? I don't know yet,

and we're going to have to see in the next couple of weeks if he's a legit 3-4. He could be a very good 5'6 on a deep team. And didn't like his penalty. Yeah, do you think it was like... Didn't like his penalty at all. I don't like stick break penalties. Well, I didn't like that he didn't move his feet

from the top of the circle to the slash. That's fair. And I think if he moves his feet, there's not a real sense to slash there because you're almost shoulder to shoulder with a guy, and it's more of a push or a shove than it is a slash. Yeah. So I think that, you know, as we progress,

hopefully he locks it in with somebody here, and we still don't know where ultimately his best fit is on a pair. Yeah. I thought he got better it's uh there's just there's no there's no early presence of mccabe like there would have been if the leafs ended up with ekholm or orlov yeah you know even chikrin will see him tonight against uh playing at ottawa with the rangers and ultimately i i don't know where his his best fit is i i don't you know he's almost 30 years old i don't like that you say he was nervous like he hasn't played in any games or you know i know so so like i so now you're gonna you're

gonna put him in a game one that is my assessment by the way may not be true is he gonna be nervous in game one in game two because he's never experienced playoff games before and there's going to be a big ask from him maybe he just you know trying to impress the new guys on the team and settle in one of those type of nervousness yeah i early for me yeah no let's see let's see how he settles in the next two weeks maybe it's just a product of who like the leafs have been playing on the back end or whatever in terms of this year and the guys they've mixed in and out and I thought he just looked like a capable NHL defenseman like you said I thought he was trying to do way too much like he looked really horned up to try to hit somebody or score a goal or make an impact and kind of prove himself to

his new team which is a completely natural thing like it'd be hard to convince a guy to not do that in a hockey game with the first meaningful hockey game and yeah maybe his life and the hockey in the nhl so i think there's something there thought he looked a little bit smaller than i was expecting him to look uh and then i watched at colman i was talking about at colman elise for two years and he looks a couple more good points on the blue line i think uh i gotta give a shout out to justin hall it's like justin pissed me off last night because like why haven't we seen i had other people with that reaction why where have you been if you can knock conor mcdavid on his ass and then go run over yamam. And there's a third one too.

And then stand up. Everybody's like Nugent Hopkins fed him his lunch. Are you kidding me? I don't care about that. The guy was there. He's engaged. He saw him coming. He was ready for him.

Give that guy the belt or the hat or something after the game. He showed more cojones than anyone else in the lineup last night yeah you know what he was almost smoked yamamoto he did that's the hardest hit on the leafs this year by far and maybe it was mcleod he drilled two uh against the end wall but you know that my first thought was like that's the most i've seen him play with a burr under his saddle ever. Like, and I've been watching him since the Marlies. Because there's eight or nine guys that are in there in the lineup now, and you're scared about losing your job.

I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. So you were so comfortable before, and now you're not. That's what it took. I think so. Yeah. I agree. And that would play into the years that he's been here,

is when he's played his best is when he's come back from being a healthy scratch or been kind of, you know, talked about in the media and that he hasn't been doing very well. Like he seems to play off this kind of motivation well. And you're right. That was a awesome game physically for him. Now, I don't think he smokes weed or does edibles but his demeanor is of someone who's just he's just like a really chill bro yeah he's really chill you know and so i don't know it doesn't it doesn't come easy for him i think to play like last night i think that's a conscious like so you know for sure i'm not on anything then yeah yeah is that what you're saying or you're on uppers

i don't know. We'll figure it out because we're going to take a break right now. Eric Francis, senior columnist, analyst with Sportsnet. He's going to join us after the break, and we're going to tee up the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Calgary Flames. What's going on there? Buy your sellers. Is there still time to even decide? We'll ask Eric after the break.

You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Toronto Maple Leafs getting ready. 24 hours later, come back and redeem themselves off of a disappointing loss to the Edmonton Oilers, which means we're going back to the well in Calgary with Eric Francis, senior columnist, analyst with Sportsnet. Thanks for doing this, Eric. How's everything in Flameland? How's our buddy Daryl doing these days?

Oh, he's always chipper. Not really. You know, I know the sky fell in Toronto last night for 24 hours. Everyone's doing navel-gazing, but I think you guys are going to be just fine. I'm not sure I can say the same thing about the Calgary Flames.

It certainly is an uphill climb for them to get back into this playoff spot. They're losing ground almost nightly, and it's pretty disheartening for this team when uphill climb for them to get back into this playoff into a playoff spot they're they're losing ground almost nightly and it's it's pretty disheartening for this team when they out shoot everybody pretty much they play two to one and and they they just can't get it done their best isn't good enough anymore and it's all because their goaltenders are really struggling so I don't know did you catch that game the other night by chance? Yes. They outshot Boston 57-20.

And that was the case of, hey, Lena Solmark, you know, demonstrating why he's clearly the Vesna Trophy winner this year. But, you know, that's been happening nightly to the Calgary Flames this year. Usually the other goalie is someone who you've never heard of. And usually the chances aren't quite as good as the ones the flames had, but they had over 90 shot attempts on goal. That's pretty unbelievable that you can't win a game like that. Well,

and that's what I've been trying to make sense of with this flames teams. You watch them. They look pretty good. Look at their roster. It's pretty good. Hey, you know, then they keep making,

you know, a bunch of no, no name goaltenders look like hall of famers. Why can't they finish Eric? Is it, you know, that's not a coaching thing, really? Is it just, here's my theory.

They don't pass the pocket ton. It's a lot of straight-on shots. I don't know. What do you think? Oh, God, in terms of breaking down, you know, I would just, big picture, I'd say that too many of their shots are periphery shots. You know, Jay Woodcroft, the last time the Oilers played the Flames was January or December 27th, which is criminal.

They should be playing at least one game down the stretch here. But either way, Woodcroft gave kind of a parting shot at the end of the last game. They beat Flames and, you know, Flames outshot them again like 50 to 25, as they pretty much do with everybody. And Woodcroft said, yeah, they'll a shot from uh their own end to try and pad their stats and it was a bit of a shot it was a bit of a shot at uh at the coach but he quickly moved on he didn't want to make a big deal of it but i certainly noticed uh what he was saying there and i don't disagree you know this coach emphasizes shot volume more than more than almost anything and uh you know at what cost you know how many times do you give up, you know,

a really good, an obvious pass and you shoot instead? I don't know. I can't break it down on a nightly basis. All I can say is at the end of the day, they do have like the worst shooting percentage in the league or the second worst. And that's probably because they're shooting from too far out. Did outplaying the Boston Bruins Tuesday night leave some hope for Flame fans

that they can still make this work in terms of making the playoffs? Because, you know, you still look at a situation where they had a lead late in the third and they gave up the Zaka goal with about five minutes to go to me it's more of a point lost than one gain so coming out of that game facing the Leafs tonight is the glass half full or half empty? You know

it's half empty like it's such a good question and we asked everybody in the room afterwards you know is this something that you know is this demoralizing or is this somehow encouraging I mean you got to point out the asked everybody in the room afterwards you know is this something that you know is this demoralizing or is this somehow encouraging i mean you got to point out the best team in the league and yet badly outplayed them yeah they played the night before but still uh you know how do you look at it and you know players are going to say whatever they're going to say this time of year it's all pretty much robotic but uh you know i i think the talking

point in calgary is certainly one of glass half empty because at the end of the day yeah everyone's talking about how they outplayed the bruins everyone's talking about the shot volume but the number one thing everyone's talking about in this city is the fact that the first shot on goal went in that's the eighth time this season that the first shot on goal has gone in and it all speaks to the biggest talking point this entire season, and the whole reason why the Flames are where they are is because their goaltending has been horrific. I mean, they had the second best goalie in the league last year, and he's just struggled this year, and he'll regain his form. I don't think it'll be this year, but he'll regain his form. His career's not

over, but it is confounding how he could go from number two in the in the world to i don't know he's probably ranked number 50 or 60 in the nhl right now so we joked about uh daryl sutter off the top but like he is a polarizing guy this isn't doesn't seem like a case of him like wearing out his welcome type of thing with the players is there is there anything to that like where you mentioned the team's playing well it's just not going in they're not getting saves. Yeah, I don't buy the theory because I think it's an easy one to say, oh, they've stopped playing for Sutter and everyone knows he's got a short shelf like Tortorella and like all these kind of guys, Keenan. I'm not buying that.

The team is playing really, really well. The only reason they are where they are is because of goaltending. Like I said, I mean, they have the second fewest shots against in the National Hockey League this year. That's got to count for something mean they have the second fewest shots against in the national hockey league this year that's got to count for something they have the second most shots for that those are strange stats for me to trot out but i saw a graphic the other day uh there's like seven teams in the in the since the since expansion were that they finished top two and goals four and goal or shots four and shots against

and like four of them won the stanley cup two of them are finalists and one won the stanley cup the next year like that's a metric that is should be a recipe for success but in terms of the coach um have the boys turned them out i don't think they have do they hate them absolutely they hate daryl sutter for sure i can tell you that the room is not – he's not popular, but Scotty Bowman wasn't popular. Right. And, you know, Kipper, you played for guys over the years that guys might have hated, but at the end of the day – Oh, we loved Keenan.

We all loved Mike Keenan. And Keenan's a great example. I mean, he got you – he helped you get a ring. And you talk to guys around Calgary or sorry guys from LA who want a ring they'll tell you I couldn't stand the guy but he got me a ring you know is it all worth it if the guy gets you a ring

I don't know that's a good debate for you to have on another day Kipper but I know people here they're not expecting a ring anytime soon in the meantime they've got to endure a guy who's really not fun to play with. We're talking to Eric Francis, senior columnist with sportsnet.ca and also Calgary flame broadcaster.

So in saying that, Eric, we know that for all intent and purposes, there's job security for Daryl Sutter, but tree living Brad tree living, not so much with it's been well-documented going into his last year of his contract. Does anybody believe for one second, this guy's going to sell with without a year extension anywhere to be seen

right now? Like you mean sell at the trade deadline? Sell at the trade deadline. Well, they don't have anybody to sell that's the problem uh you know the only guys with expiring contracts you know the obvious ones if you suddenly become a seller you know you start looking okay who's who's contract expiring who could be a rental somewhere uh the only four guys on the team uh are three of them are worth liners and the other one is a seventh or eighth defenseman. So there's no assets here to sell off as a seller.

You'd have to try and go out and make a pure hockey trade if you want to try to affect some significant change at this deadline. We have seen a few hockey trades already right now. Yeah, for sure. And Brad Trilling, as we know no uh no stranger to rolling the dice and making the big move i just think that he's been trying to watch closely to see if this team's worthy of spending any uh future assets on and i think the answer is pretty obvious that it's not it's not it's not worthy of getting any sort of bump and plus also i'll say guys like their top

nine forwards just i don't really know who you'd move out. Again, I'm telling you, these metrics, with all the shots, and I know they're not getting the results. They've got a pretty good top nine, and they've got a pretty good top five on the blue line. There isn't a massive hole on this team is what I'm saying. They did want early in the year to grab a top nine forward, but Jacob Pelche stepped in and been really, really good, and it's probably the most exciting thing to happen to the team all season long so you're not moving him out so it you're not going to hear from me on trade deadline day coverage tomorrow

on sports that at all because nothing's going to be happening in calgary well that's so funny to me you say that just because the conversation we're having you know this is these are fixable things that can pivot, you know, just getting some shooting luck or getting the goaltender going. I know Dan Vladar has had some runs of decent play over his career. You know, it feels like the Flames are in a tough pack of their schedule, too.

I mean, what is it? Avalanche, Bruins, Leafs, Wilds, Stars, Wild. Like, it's a tough spot for them. But does it not feel like because the West is as soft as it is is that an addition might be enough to get them in the playoffs get some playoff games and then kind of cross your fingers and hope you get some bounces well it's certainly it's got it that's the whole debate that brad true living's having you know one night he watches his team you know i'll play the boss of

bruins and you're probably thinking yeah we, we should do that. However, that exact same night, because they only got one point, they lost ground on three different teams in the race. And now they're like, you know, I think they're five points. I didn't check after last night, but, you know, after that last game, they look up in the standings, and I know, I think there's only 21 games left for the Flames or something like that, and they're five points out. Now, I saw a lot of people go, well, that's not a big deal.

Well, it equates to them having to play over 750 hockey from now to the end of the season. You can't play 750 hockey if you don't have a goaltender. And that's the thing. People say, well, what's wrong with the Flames right now? How can they fix the trade deadline? Well, they need a goalie. Well, they're not going to trade for a goalie because Markstrom, we all know, is a world-class goaltender,

and eventually he'll get back on pace. And Dan Bodar has proven to be one of the better backups in the league up until the last couple weeks. So it's got to come from within. They've got the answer in that dressing room. They've just got to make it happen on the ice. So what you're saying is it's all markstrom's fault because there's there's nothing else if you could talk about one thing outside of goaltending i mean has cadre

given enough offense uh where would you look other than the goaltending for calgary if if i asked you to grab your magnifying glass? You know, obviously, Jonathan Huberto has been a massive disappointment. He's on pace right now to have the third largest point drop in NHL history from one year to the next. I mean, that is not a company you want to be part of. It obviously hasn't worked out for him yet here in Calgary, but, hey, he's got eight years to figure it out.

And then, Cargill's been good. He hasn't worked out for him yet here in Calgary, but hey, he's got eight years to figure it out. And then Caudrey's been good. He hasn't been great. He's been good. He's been as advertised, which is the best way that Brad Treliving puts it, and I agree with that, you know, as a secondary center. And then I would say that the answer, though, it's easy to point to Huberto as the number one reason

because if these guys got five or ten more goals, they've lost 13 games in overtime guys like you get just that one you know goal here or there from a Huberto or he sets one up and suddenly this team is right in the thick of things and then but I would say defending you know going into this season the bit there was a lot of talk around here probably only around here that this might be one of the better defensive core groups in the league their top six defensemen. Well, they lost Oliver Shillington for the whole season pretty much here, and no sign

of him coming anytime soon. And the whole group has just not been good. Mackenzie Wieger hasn't been as good as advertised. It's easy to blame the goalie, but as you guys know, it's often because there are too many good chances being given up by the blue liners. So it's a collective thing. Markstrom at the end of the year and Huberto will take the fall for the most part. I don't know if Treeling will take the fall.

That'll be a very interesting development. But as a group, this team just found ways to lose games that they had no business losing. Having a baby, man. He's messing up his sleep. i think that's what's going on with the goaltender there um the last one for me just with the wieger thing you mentioned he hasn't been as good there had been sort of a passing rumor that they could move his deal before the no trade kicked in they would never do something that out there would would they? I guess anything's possible. I don't think this is a general manager who is going to try and make a move tomorrow just to make a move.

And I think taking one of your core three or four defensemen, your number, whatever he is, three or four, even though he hasn't had the season I think they were hoping, I don't think that's going to be netting you anything that will help you move forward. This is a GM who covets centers and defensemen above all else. And I don't see him just peddling out a defenseman, a core defenseman, who you've got locked up for a lot of years at the deadline.

I'd be very surprised at that. Last one for me, Eric, and I just want to touch base on what you just said moments ago, and that's Brad Tree touch base on what you just said moments ago and that's Brad tree living situation now it's been well documented here in Toronto that Kyle Dubas is playing the last year of his deal and most well me anyways thinks that the consequences for say not getting out of the first round would be no extension where are you or the calgary flame fans if in fact calgary misses the playoffs could you see a scenario of uh calgary missing the playoffs and and brad tree living signs an extension as a general manager of the calgary flames yeah i could i could but i could just as easily see a scenario where brad sure living says you know what thanks but no thanks i'm going to

move on and do something else. I think that the ball is 100% in Brad Shurliving's court. I don't think he'll be fired, and I don't think that, you know, I think if he does not come back, it's not because he's not wanted here. I think it would be because he decides that the situation here is not something that he wants to continue on with. And, and that, you know, don't forget, I mean, he's, you know, he's got other business interests outside of this, right. His father, you know, has an empire with Boston pizza.

And, and I, I personally, I wonder if there's ever a day when he wants to go and kind of take on that. I can't see him delivering pizzas. No, that's a good point. You know what? He's not a great driver either. So I don't think that that would be a good thing for him. But I think Brad, you're living,

you know, he's, I think he's holding the cards, which sounds crazy. I'm not saying he could write his own ticket and they're going to pay him over the top to stay here. I just think that'll be the most fascinating thing about the off season here for sure.

His future. Okay, I got to follow this up because would the feel be that maybe there's just a different philosophy between Brad and maybe his head coach? You know, Kipper, you've come such a long way from just being a player who turned into a broadcaster, a journalist. Honestly, God, that's a great question. You picked up on what I'm saying about the situation here. Yeah, there's friction.

In my mind, there's no doubt that this is not an ideal situation for this general manager and maybe even for the coach. So the way they've handled some of their youngsters when they're called up, the way – I think there's a different philosophy at play with the two men, and I'm not sure they can coexist moving forward. I don't – that's, you know, that remains to be seen. I really – I think that's fair to say.

See, that's why you're a regular on this show, because you just call it the way you see it. Yeah, I'm sure it'll get me in trouble, but that's okay. It usually does. It usually does, and that's okay. It's okay. We're used to it on this show. Hey, Eric, great stuff today, buddy. Thanks for doing this.

Okay, boys. Always good to talk to you. Take care. Thanks, Eric. Yeah. Hey, listen. Daryl Sutter's strong, opinionated guy. I think he had a three-year contract after last year. And this is the first year of it, is my understanding.

Something like that. Off the top of my head, it sounds right. Yeah. Because, yeah, it feels like there's frustration with Sutter. He mentioned it doesn't feel like the players love him it doesn't sound like the manager loves him but it sounds like he's there well if we can go back a few years just Daryl showing up again right yeah and it was many people thought that ship had sailed. Oh, yeah.

That it was just over. And he comes in early, has great success, and he becomes a quote machine, and we love him, and, you know, barely make out what he's saying, and it was all cute and fun. Straight out the Dutton Ranch with his shotgun. Hit the like button on your phone. And it's okay when you're winning.

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. That sounds like a job. Did Brad hire him back? Or was that somebody upstairs? Yeah. I see what you're saying.

It's interesting because they are simultaneously the least interesting team in the league they're like yeah we're not great we're not bad we're just going to go forward and do nothing but they're also very interesting because you know this stuff why are they the way that they are um can i read are we going to move on from the flames uh we are we are uh wanted to just ask you but i can do it not after i'll just do a quick thing uh frank cerebelli tweeted earlier that uh you know the oats adding uh the voracek contract allows them to move they move bustad to the oilers but allows them to move schmaltz or kraus or whatever because they don't have to worry about the salary floor anymore so they can trade whoever and still be above the floor so gary's memo only applies to the teams

that he doesn't love and you know the coyotes are embarrassing the league but didn't he just send out a memo saying you can't do this uh how many dead contracts exactly how many dead contracts do they have let me look it up 40 to 50 percent of their salary cap hit is dead money not real money oh come on and they're just above the floor by a few million i think they're in ltir like 33 million or something and they're paying players 43 million so they they got the sham they got the same payroll i thought you were going um something else there they got the same payroll to say an indoor lacrosse team yeah they're gonna go up against the rock this weekend so they have a 28 million dollars on inter-deserve voracek weber andrew

ladd brian little josh brown and they have retained a bit of salary patrick kane and yeah kane oel yeah somebody put out a out a picture of all their best dead cap players in Arizona. Gatsu, Kosa, Pronger, Kane, Nicklin. A Hall of Fame team. Players who never wore the jersey

because they've been manipulating the salary cap for so long. Dead cap Stanley Cup champions. Yeah, way to go. Way to go. Playing in the Sun Devils rink trading away anyone who's any good at hockey hey that could be all yours Connor you could just envision 30 40 years from now you see your your dead cap money on on Arizona. What a thrill.

I know. I'm looking at the league standings. How far are they from the bottom? Okay. Unfortunately for them, they're 28th of 32 teams. They need to lose a bit more down the stretch, and I think they know that. So they're really pulling the plug on things here. So I got a source that tells me, JBb you're right on the money on daryl setter's contract three years four million bucks a year so they just wouldn't want to eat that and hire

someone else because it's clear he's an issue for the group and by that i mean the players and the gm but everybody else likes him oh the media no he doesn't like him either the fans like him i you know i think in a way the other like amused by him for sure no they'd rather win than be amused by the coach though it's my guess that's very so uh you see any lineup changes tonight for toronto we talked to that fourth line or that third line with o'reilly lafferty and kerfoot yeah did a little something for me yeah no I'm just talking about maybe bodies in, bodies out because they've got extra Dean now. What's Shen's deal?

I would put Luke Shen in tonight. If he's available, I know they were supposed to have a baby today or tomorrow. They're on the ice. Gustafson and Luke Shen both on the ice today for the Lakers. They're on the ice. They were there. Yeah. I see for me. Both are coming in. What I watched last night, I would guess that they would take Lilligren out tonight and

put Luke Shen in. Lilligren was no good. He was no good and he got hit too. Got banged up. He had a weird fall. He had a weird fall. I think if he's not feeling great. It's an easy pull.

He's not in tonight. It's an easy pull. You'd love to get them both in wouldn't you get them get them started somehow three right-handed shots and in the lineup for the toronto maple leaves yeah sure throw them in um and then who would you pull out i don't know you can't pull hall after his best game of the year can't be brody can't be riley what are we what are we down to geo give geo a night off in calgary no chance oh yeah calgary can't be brody can't be riley what are we down what are we down to geo give geo a night off in calgary no chance oh yeah calgary can't so yeah augustus and won't get in i think here's i think

they're gonna play luke shen with morgan riley like in playoffs like i think that's his partner boy i okay so that means he's gonna play 20 minutes a night no labushkin only played 14 minutes a night with riley last year i think riley was on power play labushkin didn't get you know when the game mattered they said oh boosh you sit down we're gonna any concern against tampa bay yep lots what speed of lu Shen. Lots, lots, lots. Yeah, yeah, tons. No, no, no concern. I don't worry about anything. Do you know when... You stop.

Because you're exhausted. When Luke Shen won the Stanley Cup with Tampa Bay, he alternated between playing with Victor Hedman and Mikhail Sergeyev and being a healthy scratch. I just both stuck out my middle finger to the camera. So my point is, he played 11 minutes in 11 games playing with head men. So he's either in the stands or on the top pair.

Or he was in the stands or with Sergachev. And then the other cup he played nine minutes a game, and I think in nine games. So look at him with Quinn Hughes. Quinn Hughes is a better player with him. They liked him. He has experience with these kind of players. And he has experience.

Oh, voice crack here. And he has experience going in and out of the lineup, which Keith talked about yesterday too, which is huge and which Sandin would not want him to do. Correct. Okay, let's take a break here. Steve Valliquette's going to join us, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG.

Pat Kane makes his debut. we've barely talked about that jacob chickren makes his debut oh the bruins do we haven't mentioned oh yeah they did some things talk still with bertuzzi pasta hall taylor hall out nick felino out what does that mean to the Bruins? Plenty of meat still on the bone on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are back after these words. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliot Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van.

We got Steve Valliquette joining us soon. Analyst for the New York Rangers, MSG. They're getting ready for patrick kane barely even talked about that just hall of famer trades teams go to the garden we we barely knew we it was flip a coin time i i'm not even sure he knew yeah that it was actually going to go down well it really came down to one team this this thing we said it all along that uh between jonathan taves prior to him announcing that he's shutting it down this thing was going to play out exactly like claude drew did last season when he left philadelphia and went to Florida. All right.

There are peaks and then there are valleys and we like this valley the best. We like to be of which side of that exactly. Kipper valleys are good. I think. Yes. Steve Valaket analyst for the New York Rangers MSG. We're just talking about a trade deadline valley and uh i can't recall one being as much fun as this one for me for a long time and i was in early on those uh tsn versus sports net battles uh but

this has been a lot of fun and i'm sure uh for you and maybe the Rangers anticipating Pat Kane, maybe some fun as well. Hey, buddy, seriously, how pumped is Sammy right now? Like, how is Sammy's blood pressure? I cannot... Last night hurt, buddy. You guys know I listen. You know, I can see it right now. Kipper and Bourne float rolling into Nathan Phillips Square.

Sammy's sitting in a hot tub filled with little Buddha. There, I love it. Perfect. You know what, boys? We're almost there, too. We're ready to plan the Stanley Cup parade here in New York. We're really excited. Everybody around the building,

MSG Networks, it's electric. I can barely cross the street without getting recognized. The team is just on fire right now. It's like the city has wrapped its arms around the New York Rangers. And, you know, it's funny. You look at what's been going on around the league, and it's a league that we don't recognize, right, Kipper? This is not the way it's supposed to go down.

We're all supposed to wait until midnight and then make our moves. And now everybody's in 20 games before the deadline or the end of the season. And I feel like we've just got to be prepared right now for anything. And, you know, you guys know I listen to your podcast and I think you're doing terrific. And I was listening to the one with Ken Hitchcock and the part where he said the top two lines saw off. That one really hit me because I thought it was the part that the Rangers struggled with

with Tampa Bay last year in the Eastern Conference Final. And that's why you have to add Kane. They just didn't get inside. And if you go back, fellas, to games four, five, and six against Tampa for the Rangers last year, they lost 4-1, 3-1, and 2-1. But they were leading in that series two games to nothing, and they were leading 2-1 going into the third period of game three. They had it.

And then Tampa locked them down, and they only had two high danger chances in game six. They only had three in game five, and they only had four in game four. And it's interesting, too. Both teams scored 14 goals in the series. Take away the empty nets, but both teams scored 14 goals in the series. So you're right there. And what happened in that series, guys, was that Panarin was not able to get inside.

And he's the second highest paid player in the league, but he didn't have the horses with him to get inside. He had two shots himself from inside the slot, and he was only able to pass the puck to one of his teammates to get them inside the slot in the last three games. So why do you bring Kane? It's almost like that was

the Rangers' need to allow Borny for that saw off that Hitchcock's talking about. That's just what this team needed because they've already slotted well on the third line with the kid line, and they are playing terrific. They they're playing well defensively they put a lot of pressure on you and now you've got VZ coming from the top line down to play with Goudreau and Mott so you've got energy and I gotta say boys I was I got traded here in 03 and I was here Kipper right at the dump

when uh Leachie and everybody got traded And I was traded for Peter Nedved. You know, figure that out. That's a one for one. But, like, that's what happened here. And right now I'm seeing really the best lineup since before that team was broken up is right now. This is an amazing forward group of four. It is. It's an amazing forward group of four.

And you got, you know, Fox and Truba and Schneider and Miller, and it's an unbelievable decor and a great goaltender. I can understand why everyone is so excited. I'm asking this honestly, not because... Explain to me what's happening with the amount of people they play. They're 11-6, 11-5. They're that jammed against the cap. Is it going to be that way for the rest of the year?

Yeah, it's going to be dicey. I think that Drury was definitely comfortable doing it because they are in such a comfortable spot in the playoffs right now, and it's just the way it's going to be. I think it's going to be, it might be like this for, yeah, it'll be like this until after the deadline. So it's just going to be a little bit here. And you know what? The cap cap gymnastics like out of my scope you know i remember sitting down with i

remember sitting down with lou laverillo once this is a funny one like six years ago right and i'm trying to sell them on the analytics and uh i was talking to him about roster management and how he can look and use our data and he said to me stevie stay in your lane so that's where i'm at with that one too like i have i rely on my co-host john gino and i'm like what's going on here why are we 11 and 5 what's going on and we've got guys on the bench and uh not playing in the last game two players it's just been bizarre larry brooks uh tweeted earlier tonight the rangers were deemed ineligible by league uh for emergency recall they are apparently going 12 and 5 tonight versus ottawa in kane's debut hey valley can you um

maybe fill in a little bit of the blanks here in in this past week on like when did pat kane to the rangers uh go from being a pipe dream to reality. They went Tarasenko first in a perfect world. If they knew what they knew the last 48 hours, would it have been different? Would we have seen Kane here first before Tarasenko? I mean, I don't know all of the minutia, but I do know that, Cain, you saw his comments as soon as Tarasenko and that deal went down to come here. He was only going to come here, and because of the fact that he only wanted to come here,

Chris had to make it work, and I'm sure that Drew has to go up to ownership and make sure everything's going to fit, and then he runs it through everybody. And I think it was in the works as soon as I would say that Chicago or Chicago identifies New York as the only spot for him and that was it I mean this was the only place he was going to come so I mean that's why you get a second and a fourth right Kipper and the conditional second I mean it's kind of sad that like we've not sad but we've just seen it change so much where the star players used to fetch like five first rounders now a second and a fourth for Kane just doesn't even make sense but at the same time like I don't even think seconds

matter like I'm done talking prospects and drafts right now seriously like I even went back for the Rangers I don't know about the Leafs but I went back until the 0405 lockout just to see how the Rangers had hit on their second rounders they've only had three guys ever play for the Rangers that were drafted in the second round since 0405. That's out of 21 second rounders. Okay? Like, Anisimov, Dubinsky, and Derek Stepon. That's it. So it's not like, I mean,

I don't even think of second rounders as anything. A lot of Americans use this parallel with me, and it's the NFL. You know, you can take a fifth rounder, and he's going to be a big piece for you next year. It's just not the case with hockey. And i've been watching the draft picks roll in guys since 18 when the letter went out and i'm actually done with it i've seen a lot of whiffs i've seen some guys hit but like it's a crap shoot and that's with having the first overall and the

second overall pick yeah it's really funny you get into the analytics of it like the value of picks you know the guys beyond kind of the second round or even in the second round some cases like a two percent chance of having someone who plays meaningful you know 200 plus games for you it's it is pretty rare i'm with you that when you get the chance to get better you should and with that in mind the likelihood in the first round for the rangers is new jersey or carolina how do you think how do you like those two teams? Is there one the Rangers would prefer to play? Yeah, it's a really good question. Carolina, they defend the best.

And New Jersey has a better offense. So you can pick which either one you want. If it's me, I'll go up against New Jersey and go our offense against your offense. I'd rather do that than go against the defense of Carolina. The one analytic, Thorny, that I lean on the most for playoff success is high danger chances against a five-on-five per 60. It's a mouthful, but it's legit. The guys, or the teams rather, that are best at that in the regular season and in the last number of years, I think it's been fixed now,

the teams that win the Stanley Cup have been in the top five. And listen, as I said, listen to you guys all the time. It makes me sort of feel like you guys were pulling the strings at this trade deadline because everything you talked about basically happened, and a lot of which was uh defending stuff right like you're talking about getting a six seven eight b and you're talking about uh sandpaper and you've got your core four guys you're built around um there's no question about it when i look at the lineup for toronto now i mean you guys are looking at

a different team now but certainly a team that's sitting comfortably at the table. Yeah, the Leafs had one high danger chance last night. Is that good, Valley, by your metrics? I don't know what the hell happened last night. I was watching the goals against Samsonov this morning. I was like, oh my goodness. He was swimming, wasn't he? Yeah.

I don't know what you guys are going to do that way. You know, I ran a lot of numbers on Darcy Kemper. Darcy Kemper last year with his 9-0-2 in the playoffs, he also had six goals more than he should have allowed against expected, which ranked him last of all goalies that played last year in the playoffs. So I would say, beyond a reasonable doubt doubt that Colorado had the worst goaltending and won a Stanley Cup. So, I mean, I'm also

at odds with how important it is now. But they also had one of the best young defensemen in history in front of him. No, that's the thing, right? And they limited the high danger chances. That's what it is, Kipper. And the one thing the Leafs don't have is they don't have a

headman and they don't have that guy. They don't have him. So I wonder if, you know, it's not like you're going to find him a car or a headman over this trade deadline, but I guess that's the one piece you don't have. Just want to touch base on Pat Kane's debut tonight versus the Ottawa Senators and the power play valley. I see Zabatejad.

I see Kreider. I see Kane. I see Panarin. I see Tarasenko, I see Zibanejad, I see Kreider, I see Kane, I see Panarin, I see Tarasenko, I see Fox. One of them's not going to be very happy. What if you go Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Fox. So Trochek's out and Tarasenko's out. And you know what it's like to me? Honestly, when I look at this roster, I'm thinking

about what it's like to play for Team Canada, Team US. You're going to the Olympics. How do you get a collection of all the top guys to care about the crest and not the name on the back and know your role and be happy in it for the greater good of the team, whatever team does that in this year's Stanley Cup playoffs is going to win because every team's got egos.

You guys know that. And there's subplots in every locker room. But if the team, the Rangers, Leafs, Boston, Carolina is getting deeper, I mean, look, everybody's going to have this. So whoever deals with it best and checks their ego is going to win. Because, look, like one more thing that I looked at the other day because we're talking about sawing off the top lines that they cancel out. It's a goofy thing, but there's some relevance here.

It's since 0-4-0-5, all of the game-winning goal scorers to clinch cup. Listen to these names, seriously. Arturi Lekkonen, Ross Colton, Lars Zeller, Patrick Hornquist, Dave Boland, Maxim Talbot, Travis Mullen, Dave, like, come on, Jeff Carter. Like, it's not stars. It's all those guys in D. So, you know, if everybody just plays their role, isn't that the most important thing?

And, you know, that's probably what it's going to come down to. Everyone's good. Yeah, for sure. You know, I'm just looking at this Rangers roster as we're talking about it. How has the new addition of Nico Mikula and Tarasenko been? I know Tarasenko is a sexier name, but I'm actually curious about that D-man too. Yeah, no, he's been awesome. Gerard Gallant loves him, and he's been awesome uh drug lint

loves him and he's long and he nails and um he'll hurt you he'll block shot i talked to the guys in st louis um after the trade and they loved him uh he's going to be a hole for them on their pk so he can help you if one of your top pkd is in the box he's been really good. He's been the first, like, number six we've seen come through here in a long time that's been legit. Valley, talk to me about Kendra Miller, because I did have a chance to meet him when I was down there with the alumni. I can't think of a nicer guy, and I can't help but believe him when he says it was accidental,

and I know people can have their opinions. That's mine. What do you think being suspended three games for for that act will do to him moving forward you think it rattles him no i i think he'd dig in on this one because he's a little embarrassed by it you know and and you guys know what it's like we all have brain farts every once in a while. And I thought, just by watching it over many times, that his eye contact was not on Doughty. He was more or less trying to spit into space, almost reactionary, under the duress of a scrum.

I mean, it's not like taking your mouth guard out and celebrating for a goal, like that kind of distraction, but just one that was just odd, different. I'd certainly say from being around him, there's no chance that that was purposeful and it was an accident, and I know he feels terrible about it. That's really all I have on that. I just don't see it because it's not something I see in hockey.

We're not like that, like none of us. And I just thought it was just an accident. I thought it was a brain fart. He just really screwed up, and that was it. Totally agree. Hey, pal, always great having you on this show. We always appreciate the support you give to the Real Kipper and Bourne show, and you're always welcome.

Thanks, man. Hey, boys, keep it up, babe, and keep having fun, and keep Sammy in check. He's getting too high again. Thanks, Val. Hopefully we're having daily visits with you during the conference final, man. That's the best case scenario for everyone. Absolutely.

That'd be awesome. See you, fellas. Take care. We'll stay in touch. Enjoy Pat Kane's debut tonight. Steve Allocat, analyst for the New York Rangers. What a roster they have. You know, again, just to emphasize again, Rangers, Devils, Leafs, Tampa Bay,

someone's going to get there. The Hurricanes, first or second in the league. I know, but somebody's getting their heart broken in the first round. And someone who went in hard. The Tanner-Gino trade looks atrocious first a second a third a fourth and a fifth you could have got jacob chickard twice i'm not saying anything can i i withstand can i remind you that you said the exact same thing about hagel no i

didn't not me not me you got the wrong guy no no no no you didn't think it was absolutely asinine that i did a guy like Hagel gave up? I loved the contract. It made perfect sense to me from the start. Two first-rounders? Okay. It made sense to me. Maybe it was Sammy, then.

Oh, I was crapping all over it. That is exactly why I will not crap all over this one. Yes. But this one doesn't come with the contract or, you know, he's not scoring 30. Maybe, you know, maybe they know something I don't. But in the context of the rest of the trades that have happened at the deadline where chikrin's a first and a second and bertuzzi's a first and a fourth genoa was not a first a second a third a fourth and the fifth does genoa not have the ability to turn himself into uh

tom wilson he better turn himself into two tyler bertuzzi's just for the price they paid i'm not saying he's not a good player that he can't be valuable by the costs of the deadline that is a wild outlier isn't it five picks i would say have seven goals four four yeah i you hope to see the guy that played last year yeah i'm not saying he's a bad player i'm saying he went more for more than chikrin for more than ekholm for more than everyone who's a big name at the deadline first the second third and fourth and a fifth and a fifth i don't care about the fourth or the fifth they're not that valuable to me for a second and third yeah the chick chikrin's picks are better okay but we're talking we're debating i know we're splitting hairs right now i know we're splitting hairs i'm with you and yes they did overpay in my opinion as well yeah and that's

why sammy's really hoping that tampa's heart's broken after the first round yeah he's just he's gonna be good there's a chance yeah yeah he is gonna be good he's gonna be be good. There's a chance. Yeah, yeah. He is going to be good. He's going to be good. Like I'm telling you right now that's why I will not be on record anywhere saying it's an overpay. Because. Would any amount have been an overpay? Like we're talking about in context of the store. I can buy something nice at the

store that cost me ten times too much. No further comments or questions at this time. Even if I like the object, I paid too much. No comment. Anyway. Okay. And we've been over you know, we've given it to Pierre Dorian over the years. No question. comments or questions at this time even if i like the object i paid too much no anyway okay and we've been over you know we've given it to pierre dorian over the years no question uh calling for the playoffs last season didn't happen this year the narrative turned into meaningful games it's happening we look back now over the course of a less than a year and he's turned the brinket claude geroux and chikrin into ottawa senators and it hasn't cost him any young guys the deal

they got on jacob chikrin was the value shop of all time but arizona turned down some deals based on not wanting to spend any money does that not seem like a problem betman so they but now they're trading for fake money now they're trading for fake money so arizona ends up getting whatever back it's a great deal for for ottawa i'm pumped for them i'm pumped for sends fans you want ottawa to be good and buffalo to be good for the leafs sake let's get some good games um but yeah these are these are good games for them to steal great contract as long as he stays healthy you know he can play 20 minutes a night yeah and that they'll get true value he defends you know he gets points he's just he's a great player um is uh how about a top four of sanderson shabbat zoob and him

is this going to get them in the playoffs they're just they're starting from a sizable disadvantage here they dug a pretty deep hole i would love for for them to get in. It would be a lot of fun. I'm going to say no that they don't get in, but I like the idea that they're going for it. Can I read a tweet from our boy, The Oak Leafs, who is very funny on Twitter?

I hope Shen does something so stupid and egregiously violent in his first game back that it makes Peros Charter a effing Concord flight to Calgary. You may notice a certain producer of this show comment below that saying that i've never agreed with something more that's hilarious that is a great tweet he deserves a shine for that one so uh it'd be interesting to see if shang can work himself into into just every day top six guy and is there any wiggle room right now to still think that you could unload justin hall's two million dollars and bring in something else on the i know a lot of people are clamoring for another left. A left winger? Yeah. A left winger? Another shoot at the neck guy.

Bertuzzi. Gone. Would you have liked to seen? Oh, God, yeah. That would have been money. That would have been perfect. Would you have given up? What do the Leafs have next year?

They've got their. 2024 first still. They still have it. Yeah. And they have Boston's first. Would you have given that up? And Boston's first. Would you have given that up? Oh, yeah. There you go. Take it oh yeah there you go take it let's go yeah bertuzzi's good he creates a ton he's he's

in a scoring rut this year but he's he creates at a super high rate and listen i am not saying that this is true or you know it's confirmed or anything but someone said that detroit wouldn't be up to doing bre Shanahan any favors. Is that so? Is him and Stevie Y got a little bit of... There might be a little bit of that competitive spirit between them. Ex-teammates and... Yeah, given the chance to do the same deal.

Big markets and... Yeah. Maybe there's a personal race to a original six stanley cup between them boston berlin yeah what do you think you're not telling me what you know you've told me what you hear that's really really you know possible hearing that it makes sense oh yeah that's almost guaranteed all these old players kipper, all his friends, they're the most ego-driven, competitive nuts. 100%. Oh, we're the sorest losers.

Your generation is so competitive. Sorest losers you'll ever find. Leafs could use a little of that. They could. They have it in the front office, apparently. You have yet to see a temper tantrum out of me. I'm telling you. but i'm evolving yeah and then i take a couple of steps back yes i can regress so he didn't like when sammy told us not to talk about something the other day

oh god that was so loud i'm'm sorry, is Luke Chen here? Yeah. Some of that tonight. Do you think Taylor Hall is really hurt? We have to nail down the Bruins here, boys. We haven't talked with the Bruins for the first 40 minutes of the show. Your first thoughts as a Super Leaf fan when you found out Bertuzzi's going to Boston. Crap.

Crap, that sucks. Would have liked that for Torontoonto this is my nightmare i just could they have gotten more annoying like they get half the way brad marchand and him on and bertuzzi on the same team is an unbelievably frustrating team like they are detestable boys i don't want to say i'm just gonna curse them maybe they're perfect oh they're a perfect team if they don't win it is the biggest choke job of all time they are pressure they have the best goal in the league they have the best goal in the league who scored the other night by the way we barely mentioned that they have they're balanced on defense now they have four tough lines i know they lost felino hauls out but who cares but like whatever those guys are good players but hauls out felinos out yeah but we think that yeah but they just got

tyler bertuzzi who's probably well they got him because those two guys are out and they're both he's probably more effective than both of those guys but is the idea though that like if what if one of those guys comes back in three weeks they they have a salary cap pickle here do they not no no it's over they put those guys on long term right they bring this is uh tampa bay i know but i'm saying like there's no chance that those guys are going to come back they're just gonna be hurt for 44 days until the the playoff start oh this could reek of kucherov yeah yeah this could literally send a memo now they said no trading for it listen you're right they could come back they could they could come back next week or they can come back in game one couldn't you wouldn't you maybe sit down with

morgan riley and be like we're gonna give six weeks off. Not because you've done anything wrong. We just want to spend seven and a half million. Yeah, but that's illegal. Well, so is being hurt. That's against the rules. JB. Right. You have to look hurt. Yeah. All right. Well, in warm-up, we're going to need you to step on a puck. Take six weeks

off. No, they're perfect, boys. They're the perfect team. There's no flaw. They are perfect. I's no flaw yeah they they are perfect i love that they're like if they don't win the stanley cup it's the biggest colossal failure of all time number one because they're gonna have one of the all-time great records in the history of the league yeah that it would go down as one of the biggest major upsets for sure this one would be even worse than columbus's uh knock on uh on tampa on tampa had 126 points that year it was substantial this would be in that ballpark for sure i actually this team is better than that yeah no no above it this this one would be above their playoff year

than that team that team was first in scoring by a mile they scored the bruins are unbelievable i don't think they're first in scoring they might be fourth or fifth but they're yeah they are they're unbelievable um i do think that they're almost plus 100 how are they not first in scoring they gotta be first in scoring i think it's new jersey or edmonton oh there's nobody close oh is it really okay edmonton Oilers are first, 237, and they're second at 224. Sabres, 222. Sabres?

Yeah. In terms of goals per game, they're third in the league. It's the goal differential that's off the charts. Their goals against per game, they are miles ahead of the next best team. Like I said, it's almost plus 100.

Yeah. The Carolina Hurricanes are the second best defensive team in the I said, it's almost plus 100. Yeah. The Carolina Hurricanes are the second best defensive team in the NHL, and if they gave up, you know, Boston would have to give up 30 goals tonight to fall into second. The Bruins have given up 126 goals this season. The Anaheim Ducks have given up 252. I can't recall. I can't recall watching two guys in net,

and we just watched the Bruins go through Alberta. And Swayman was really good in Edmonton. And then Allmark was lights out in Calgary on a back-to-back when you're totally getting outplayed. And those two guys find a way to get you four points on that. I love this pressure for them. A couple of injured guys in Hall and Foligno. You were really hanging your hat on it's too good

and it's too right and not enough adversity. No, no, no, it's not that. It will come back and bite you. I'll go ahead and take my shots at the Bruins. I understand that they're built really well it's an exceptional team they're perfectly built perfect team if we're allowed to say some other things than that patrice bergeron statistics have fallen off pretty significantly so of david creche's so brad marchand's they're not the guys they were during their heyday they are much better built now as a team than being reliant on those guys around them i tend to think it's the elite guys who pull you through in the

big moments and those guys are not as they were i don't know if they have a guy in the top you know it's either pastor next their guy it's their d that's really good and that's the one place where i don't see any real holes is perfect i think it was in calgary i'm watching the flames go down on a two-on-one and lynn home just like steps right up and picks the puck right out of the middle and they also give up 50 shots and that goes the other way like lynn home mcavoy orlov carlo is the top four is and how about that unbelievable how about that debut for or love how about like just coming in and having such a presence yeah two in one and maybe you know just to come full circle on the beginning of our show maybe that's where maybe a guy like mccabe feels

like oh boy they you know i'm supposed to be muzzin's replacement and i'm supposed to be this big physical guy and you know maybe it just got a little bit wrapped around him i was actually thinking like when he walks into the dressing room you're the coach you're the gm whatever role you'd prefer to have you know how do you tell him or maybe you don't your expectations for him what you want to see from him i was thinking do you you know do you just let him be the guy he is or do you set some no you don't set any parameters i don't say what we want from you is uh yeah maybe in a real loose way yeah it's just a we know your game go out there and just have

some fun it's going to be a great ride here you're going to be a big part of it and you just kind of let it evolve yeah to have gone in there right before he stepped on the ice for his first game and start filling him between the ears with you know thoughts or parameters or systems and all of that after the game that's very different it's very different and it's going to take time for him yeah he said that the leafs have much more defensively responsible forwards than they're used to playing with which uh then they're supposed to be more active down the walls in the ozone because they trust that they have coverage behind them yeah and so i think there's a bit of a you know you got to figure it out like i usually don't go here but now i'm going like he'll be caught in

the middle here i think leafs fans need to give him a sec. Like, let him get acclimated before you go, he can't play. And, you know, he had the yips a little bit off of face-off where he coughed it up, I think, the middle in the slot. And then he made a kick save in a beauty on a good shot block. And that stuff will get cleaned up as he gets his comfort zone. Yep. We got... Perfect Bruins.

No flaws. Pressure on them Bruins. No flaws. Pressure on them is great. Colossal, colossal failure if they don't win the cup. This is the hardest attempt at a reverse jinx I've ever seen. No. No. Reverse jinx? I would never reverse jinx anyone.

Yeah. Bertuzzi is just a really effective guy. He'll play with Coyle and Frederick. You know, it looks like out of the gates. You guys like the Pasternak contract? The Leafs should trade for Tom Wilson to respond. Well, the question is, do the Leafs

like it? Because Nylander is up for renegotiation in July and let's face it, that's all the Leaf fans care about is, what does this mean to re-sign Michael Nylander? Willie or willie sorry you know michael dad willie willie's what percentage of pasternak as a player 80 75 80 eight playoff

success 20 15 50 what's 15 of 11.25 pay him that yeah you know willie makes six point nine blah blah i had him at 10 10 10 5 willie yeah yeah i had a new deal i like that 10 number a lot more than the 10 5 and getting out of hand for me at that point for willie by the way how strong was he last night you and i were talking about him against ekholm just big boy not that he was good last night no but echo came bearing down on him. He was coming around the net, and I was like, oh, boy, get your head up. And he just bounced off of him. Echolm went down to a knee.

I was like, oh, my God, Willie. I actually think if there was a stat that, like, times a jersey touched the ice, Willie might be – I don't think he's ever been on the ice. Like, he doesn't – he's got great edges. Doesn't fall down much. Doesn't go into it. Yeah, anyway. The other thing, too, is, you you know let's just assume kyle's doing

the negotiations this summer how hard is he going to press willie will he press willie as hard as the boston bruins press pasternak to remain a Bruin, take probably 800,000 less than the 12 you could have gotten on the open market, convince him that you want to be a Toronto Maple Leaf the rest of your career. Here's eight years. You're a guy. It wasn't an easy negotiation like with pasternak they had to really work them over yeah about being a brun and taking a little less this was a little less yeah oh for sure than what

if the market would have bared 11 5 to 12 i wouldn't have been in here saying you know i'd say yeah that's about right so yeah and it is less than um panarin right he's not the highest you know which is 11-6 i think he had an easy case to make that he's panarin plus without a doubt easy case so it's a nice contract it's also not cheap cheap cheap you know it's will will will he i mean the bruins leave a little less to remain a toronto i believe i don't know what one of the big conversations the hockey dressing room was when I was like, ah, the Bruins. Oh, my God.

I'm getting choked up talking with the Bruins. But all their guys take less. Oh, they take less. Now it's two guys in a row that haven't taken less. Yeah. McAvoy is paid appropriately, nine and a half. That was the going rate at the time. And this is not a discount.

No, it's a discount. No, it's not. It's a discount. It's $11.5 million per year. Lurkin was, and this is not a discount. No, it's a discount. No, it's not. It's $11.5 million per year. This is a discount. This is a discount. This is not a discount. Come on. JB just said he's got every facet of an argument to pass Panarin,

and the cap is going up, Sammy. It's a discount. I disagree. I disagree. It's $11.5 million. It's a lot, disagree it's a discount i disagree i disagree it's 11 and a half million what rogers pays you wow that's a different conversation um but no like you know anyways oh the proven lord oh he takes 11 and a half million dollars what a hero this guy the perfect bruins get their guys to take less oh yeah he took less took 90 million dollars and it was nine all day long and stevie eiser and came pulled the steven stamkos playbook

on larkin and it worked beautifully and i don't blame larkin for signing no you're at home either guy come on you're not going anywhere. Boston's a great organization. Where are you going? You're going to Anaheim for an extra half a million dollars for Columbus. Who would do that? Who would be a superstar and choose? You know what a discount is? Paige Thompson.

That's a discount, but see all of this is retro retroactive discounts. Guys sign a contract. They're worth a million and a half. It's a discount. It's not a discount for a 30-goal score. No, it's not. Okay, don't use Tage Thompson as an example.

Tage Thompson signed as a 30-goal score. No one knew he was going to turn into 50. Yeah, still fire agent. Oh, yeah. And Mario, you know, Tage Lemieux. Yeah. Two things. If Tyler Bertuzzi ever becomes relevant to the Toronto Maple Leafs being on the Bruins,

isn't that a great thing? Wouldn't you love for that to be a problem? Because that means they've won a round. Like I've heard people be like, oh no, the Bruins got Bertuzzi. I'm like, the best case scenario is that that's a problem. Yeah, that's a great problem to deal with. Yeah. Deal with that.

You cross that bridge and you come to it. See, there you guys go again. Lowering the bar. The bar is chipper. They can roll over the bar. It's on the ground. You'd be so happy with a second round Boston sweep. No, I wouldn't be.

Come on now. That's pretty low. Five? Okay, now we're talking. One extra game. I would be ecstatic that they beat the Bolts and then just as pissed off as I would be if they got swept by the Bruins. There would be no

difference to me. Really? That's wild. See, there's no difference. Well, good. You're unstable. They just load it up. Oilers got Bustad. Anyone care? No. Okay. Wow. He's going to take a discount. He's going to take a big discount. I don't think it's a bad move. Like the hero Pasternak did. What'd he say? He's still all over

you. The hero from the hills comes down and takes nothing. He might as well be Peter Pan. Pastern act discount. Give me a break. Sammy's way they'd all be making 100 grand. This is delightful. Just delightful.

Another match tonight. We get to put the Oilers game behind us. 9 p.m. start. give me a rebound score tonight for the time it was terrible last night give me a 3-2 win 3-2 win sure you got one wall yeah solid yeah i think he's gonna be and that's gonna really confuse the hell out of leaf nation when he plays well everybody's gonna's going to say, that's your backup. No, that's the starter for game one. Sammy, what do you got? A better win.

Enjoy the game tonight. We're back tomorrow. The most opinionated Maple Leaf show out there. Real Kipper and Born. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.