Real Kyper & Bourne - Devils Fire Fitzgerald + Habs' Bright Future

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with their reaction to the New Jersey Devils relieving Tom Fitzgerald of his GM duties. TVA reporter Renaud Levoie stops by (4:52) to share his thoughts on New Jersey's shake-up, the Leafs' GM search, the success of the Canadiens' management structure, why the Habs are in for a splashy offseason, Patrick Roy's unceremonious dismissal, and Steve Yzerman's uncertain future in Detroit. Later, Nick and Justin regroup with Sam to discuss Pontus Holmberg's injury after running into an open penalty-box door. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's official. We're national. It's the Real Kipprenborn show. We're live on Sportsnet. Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver. Sportsnet 960 in Calgary and streaming. Always on Sportsnet.

Plus, if you miss our show live, you can always get it on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, this hour of Real Kipprin Bourne, brought you by Bet365. In a few minutes, Renault Lavois will join us.

Talk around the league. including, oh, I did it. You did it. Well, listen. How painful was that changing the Toronto Maple Leaf jersey to a Montreal Canadian jersey? Have we had that all year, that jersey? Throwing water on the Wicked Witch or something. You would just, wow.

It's not the first time I put it up. Have we had the jersey up before? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we have. Oh, I haven't been paying attention. I want them to have their fun. I do. You know, they've suffered a long time, so I'm really happy for them to get there.

Okay, we're going to be using that jersey a lot. Do you think? Yeah, because I'm going to make you. constantly go from Toronto to Montreal. We don't have Canadian teams in the playoffs. We have to. Well, the Jets might make it. Oilers will be in there.

Ottawa, maybe. Okay. So that's a few. Jets aren't going to make it. But jets aren't? No. I guess the big news of the day yesterday would be the firing of Tom Fitzgerald

in Jersey Boys. Thoughts. From the musical? Oh, yeah, I guess I said that. Jersey Boys is a musical. thoughts on that one. You know, I'm going to defer to Kip. You had talked about perhaps a separation of duties.

Yeah, I wrote about it last week. And the three teams I said were Toronto, New Jersey, and Vancouver. I don't know where Vancouver is. The sense, again, was that all three of those guys thought that they were expecting changes to what degree they weren't sure. Of course, all of them would have hoped that they would find a way to. to stay on. But I know Brad Tree Living and Tom Fitzgerald did not have good vibes and they were telling a few people that I got the same kind of sense for Alvin.

But is there a chance that they do nothing? The ownership probably is a little bit more teeters and totters a little bit more in Vancouver maybe than other places. And we'll see how it, we'll see. see how it unfolds in Vancouver, but those are the three teams that I had mentioned in my Sportsnet.com buzz article. And now I think,

you watch New Jersey, I expect them to probably have someone in place here in the next 10 days, two weeks at the most. Brendan, someone hand? Brendan Chanahan to me, I think, as you had mentioned about 40 minutes ago, 45 minutes ago,

ex-de- Devil X Ranger, worked in the NHL office, spent 10 quality years building something in Toronto. You can knock them all you want for not getting it done to a conference final or Stanley Cup final, which is fair. But you can't deny the man that he brought a level of professionalism to the Toronto Maple Leafs and respectability. There's no circus here. arrived and totally changed He classed it up 100%

He classed it up here And honestly If some ownership groups It's like I don't really need a Stanley Cup right now But Relevance I don't need this Missing the playoffs

And just get me in It's hard now There's only 16 teams That's 16 teams that are going Okay What do we got to do here. And for the record, Sheldon Keith confirms he's been told he'll be under evaluation

at season's end. Quickly. I know we're going to get to Wren here in a second. The question I had felt like the whole thing flipped with the Devils when the huge trade happened. Right? Yeah, that's a great point. The devils were, the devils were

kind of in it at that point. Had they, wouldn't they been hot? And like they were okay. And everybody thought there was a foregone conclusion that he was going to get traded there. Lost the fish. And then out of left field comes Billy Garon and trades the farm and gets them. And then it just seems that that kind of was a turning point for him.

Totally. Couldn't agree more. All right. TVA's hockey reporter, NHL Network correspondent. Renault Lavois joins us now. We're going to go in deep on the Montreal Canadiens, buddy. But before that, we were just finishing off our thoughts on New Jersey, Tom Fitzgerald. Wanted to start there with you.

your thoughts and the anticipation of what's next for New Jersey. And, you know, could Tom Fitzgerald end up in Nashville, which is starting to rumble a little bit? Well, my feeling is when you look at, you know, the press release last night, it was kind of obvious that Tom Fitzgerald was looking to leave this franchise. I've been told that he was really under pressure in the last few months. that, you know, ownership was behind his back, not really behind his back, but looking at everything that he was doing, right?

So, and there was some dissatisfaction to that hand. And I mean, for Tom Fitzgerald, I believe it was obvious that it was probably better for him to, to try something else. It's not the first person to leave his organization to go find a job that's available. Mike Sullivan is a name that pops to my head all the time because he was under contract with the penguins and he decided to lead and take the money with the New York Rangers knowing that the chances to make the playoffs were for the next two years, I guess, slim. Even if he said that he didn't expect a rebuild, that was not a lineup that was prepared to win the Stanley Cup. So you look at the big picture, I think there is some people that are,

looking at other job position right now in the league. And that's a really good example. So who's next? That's a great question because you need to understand one thing. It's not easy to be the GM of the Florida Panthers. Not Florida Panthers, the GM of the New Jersey Devils. Like it's not, well, now it's easier in Carolina because the guy that's there is a, you know, in advance that person's person.

So it's exactly the same thing that they want right now in New Jersey. They want someone who is going to make all this decision, you know, and it's going to be a decision made by a computer. That's the sad reality of the New Jersey devil and the way they work. I've been in some management people. years a few years ago saying, you know what? What's missing to your team right now is Corey Perry. That was like three, four years ago.

And they were like, oh, it's impossible, not Cory Perry. And I was like, why? And, well, Renault, if you look at the advanced stats, he's the worst player in the league. But who cares? He's going to bring a culture. He's going to help the young players. He's going to build your dressing room. That's Cory Perry. Who cares if he's not, if the advanced stats don't like him?

That's the big problem here. And so is the next GM, well, it's not a question. The next GM that's going to be there in New Jersey needs to be a geek, a guy who really, really loves the advanced stats. And all the decisions are going to be made by a computer. That's how it works now for a few things in the NHL. You know, I think one of the things that someone good with that sort of stuff you would hope is they'd be able to show like Corey Perry and that we were talking about this in our last hour. If his numbers say he's the worst player in the league, well, why, right? Is he in the right environment?

Is he being used the right way? Here's how we can use them with our team. You know, it'll be different for him here. And I think that's some of the translation that teams are looking for. What do you think the Montreal Canadians, like they have their structure right now with Gordon and Hughes and a lot of other teams seem to be looking. of that and going, how can we replicate something like that? Do you think, why is it

that that seems to be working for them? Well, first of all, you know, today I was asked a lot about what's going on right now in Toronto with that search for new GM. Okay. Elaborate on that reaction. Your earbuds almost fell out

shaking your head. Yeah, I know. I can't believe it. But anyway, that's not my question. Okay, tell me, you don't believe. Tell me what you don't believe. Okay. I'm going to go back to what happened in Montreal a few years ago. A few years ago, Mark Bergervain was let go, right? Before he was let go, Jeff Moulson. Jeff Moulson grew up at the forum, played in Vermont as a goalie. I'm not saying that he knows everything about hockey,

but he knows hockey. He called the commissioner Gary Bettman, told him, listen, I want to make can move, but I want to know if you know someone that can help my organization right now. Yes, I have a name for you. Jeff Gordon. Bang. Jeff Olson was at his presser was like, I never met him before. I don't, I don't know, I don't know, before meeting, obviously, Jeff Gordon before hiring him. I didn't know he was. He knew him by name, obviously. He knew he was working for the New York Ranger. but there was no connection between him and Jeff Gordon. So they met, they talked, took a few, I guess, meetings before Jeff Moseley made the final decision.

But ownership needs to be involved in that search. You cannot give someone else the key of your Ferrari. Drive your own car and be the driver. of what's next for your organization. After that, you're going to use it as an excuse. Well, the search that we made, like in four years ago, I said, well, you know the search that we made four years ago? We didn't do it.

It wasn't us. We give the key to someone else to do it. And it didn't work out. Sorry, guys. No, you need to be accountable. Do your own research. All Gary Bettman or Bill Daley or someone else around the league. They're strong. Call agents, call coaches, call whoever you want to call.

But you, I think, the Maple Leafs have really smart people that can do that search by themselves. So you don't need to hire a firm. You're basically saying that it's okay if Keith Pelley makes those calls on behalf of the owner, or the owner should just make those calls? And where is Neil Glassberg and his coach? coaching, you know, company in all of this for you? I think Mr. Pilly knows a lot of people around the game, knows a lot of people in sports, not only in hockey, right?

He's got a ton of people that can help him, but I don't understand why you need to hire a firm, to be honest with you to hire your next GM. It doesn't add up in my mind. I know it's a new trend. I know it's trendy. But at the end of the day, there's a lot of smart people around this league that don't work for any team right now. Probably doing something else.

There are some coaches that are not coaching right now. Or GMs or assistant GMs. You talk to a lot of people and you're going to be guided. And, I mean, when Jeff Moulson decided to fire Pierre Gaultier, Jeff Moulson talked to probably to 12 to 14 person. That's the way to should work, guys. As an owner, or if you're Mr. Pelly, you need to be accountable. You need to look at all the candidates.

You need to talk to them. You don't need a firm for that. You don't need a firm. You don't need a firm. It's not true. Yeah. It's not true. Hey, Ren, how, how, how, how,

I'm looking at that ownership structure. I asked, you're sorry, not the ownership structure, but the management structure there. How much is Kent Hughes an AGM for Gorton? Because that's how I see it in Vancouver. Or is Gordon more business? Because here in Toronto, we feel the absence of a president on the business side. Yep.

If you look at Jeff Gorton and Kent Hughes, they're working hand in hand, right? The final say, obviously, if Jeff Gorton is saying, no, we're not doing this. But the thing is, they're bouncing on each other all the time. Okay? And they have, and Kent Hughes is working really, really hard. Like at the trading deadline, he wasn't able to make a trade. We've talked about this the last time we thought together. And, I mean, he tried, it worked really, really hard.

It didn't work out. Okay. Is it the end of the world? No, it's not the end of the world. But I believe that Jeff Gorton is responsible of everything that the Montrellequians are as a team. So you need to be, you need to look at what's going on in Laval with the farm team. You need to look at every aspect of all the contracts of people in the hockey ops. a GM in today's world alone, I don't believe, is capable of doing this.

I think the structure that there is, that we have here in Montreal is the good structure because of probably the people that are there too. That's why it's important to say because Jeff Gorton and Kent Hughes before working together were obviously on the same page on a lot of things when Jeff Gorton, was working for the Boston Bruins or the New York Rangers after that. He was obviously talking a lot to

Kent Hughes and he realized that one day if something happened, if he's the president of Akiops in an organization, Kent Hughes could be the guy that he won as a GM. It's gutsy in a way because Kent never worked for an

organization before, but it's working out because of the history. between Gorton and yous, right? And I'm not talking about the five-year thing. They've been knowing to each other for the last probably 20 years. So that's why they know each other pretty well. They know, you know, how sometimes when a guy is having a bad day, how is he going to react?

When a guy is on the top of the world, how is he going to react? They know each other pretty well. So that's why I believe that it's working pretty well here right now in Montreal. You're watching and listening to Renaud-Hau-H-Lavois, Hockey reporter for TVA, NHL Network and correspondence. While we look at the Montreal Canadians, I'm not sure how many would have thought that they'd be at this point already just in terms of now challenging for top spot.

Suzuki on the cusp of 100 points, Caulfield on the cusp of 50 goals. There's Hudson. course, Slavkowski, who's on the cusp of 30 goals. But the thing that strikes me the most, run, about this organization is they are busting at the seams with still prospects and assets that haven't even been touched or look at yet. Like this team, as good as they are right now,

will only get better in three, four, five, seven years from now. Now, it's crazy, but Kipper, you're, you're so right. And that's mind-boggling in a way. And you have a coach like Mathes-S-Louis, who's growing up in a way with them, knowing how to be a coach, learning how to be a coach in the NHL, and with young players that are learning how to play in the NHL. And, you know, Margie St. Louis is bringing so much passion

to this team, to his players, to the organization. He's a winner. He wants to win badly. And so it's quite a feeling that we have here in Montreal right now because you just nailed it. It's not only about today. It's only about what's next for this team in the playoffs. It's who are coming.

The next players that are coming here next season or in two or three years are going to be really, really good too. They have a lot of young prospect coming in. It's impressive. The way they build that organization is really impressive. And that's, I believe, what should be, you know, the trend in the NHL right now, the new trend. If you look at what the Tampa Bay Lightning did over the years was just amazing, I believe. That's why they have so much success.

And I know that, you know, when Kent Hughes was hired or Marty Saleouille, they were We're always talking about we don't want to be good for a few years. We want to be good for the long run. And it's exactly what the Tampa Bay Lightning are. And I believe that's, you know, a good copycat of what they want to be, you know, in the future. So who do they want, Buffalo or Tampa? You know what? I don't think they want to pick and choose.

But let's put it this way. They're playing really well against the lightning. Yeah. They, they're so fast and no disrespect to the lightning, but they're a little, I'm not going to use the term slower, but probably not, you know, at the same level that the Buffalo Sabres are. If you look at last night game, was a really good example when the Sabres are pushing and they're big. This is a big, big team. The players are huge. So that's a big advantage, I believe, for the Buffalo Sabres. So the Canaanians are playing really well against the Sabres. But if you're asking me, Renault, who could be, you know, a team that Montreal will be really comfortable against?

Tempably Lightning is on top of the list. Do you expect, I know there was all this talk, and I'm not, I don't want to rehash the whole kind of, you know, were they close on Matthew Nyes or anything like that? But regardless of where they go moving forward after, this season. Do you expect a lot of these assets that I spoke of moving forward? They're going to have to move some of them. They can't

develop them all. They can't play. They can't all find a spot. Do you expect, regardless, if they go to a conference final or stand like a final or win or get knocked out in the first round, that they will make some of these moves very soon? I believe so.

You know, you have Michael A. playing for Michigan. He's going to be in the final four in the next few days. He's got to play for the Montreal Canines. Is it going to be the last two games, the last game, whenever he's going to join the team, they're going to be really happy to have him. But you wonder if Michael Age will have a long future with the Montreal Caneans because of all the trade trading rumors around the league right now and around the Montreal Canaanians. You know, Kipper, if I look at what I'm hearing, and I'm not only talking here about,

I don't want to talk only about the Montreal Caneans, but I think we're going to have quite a summer. I think there'll be some fireworks. And I believe that there is some names that we didn't mention in the last two months, that are going to be available. And that could be a, you know, a hot summer if everything is, you know, going at where probably the Montreal Canians wanted to go or other teams wanted to go.

I think there was a lot of discussions with names that were not out there. And these names are, you know, really important. important players in this league. Well, it's going to be fascinating to see the, I know here in Toronto, a lot of people hoping for a couple big names to switch teams, but it could be big names out too. So careful what you wish for. Speaking of big names out, did want to get your impression on former Montreal Canadian great Patrick Waugh getting the late boot from Long Island. Your perspective on that, Ren. Well, it's simple.

you know goaltending was really good probably saving winning a lot of games I should say and after that defensively it wasn't working for

the Islanders that's why they traded for Palat and Braden and Susie to defensemen so you make all these trades and it's not getting better right and that's I believe

what was the real problem here is the way that defensively the team was not, you know, playing really well. And the last week. Last week was really, really tough. And I like to read the New York Post every morning. And in the New York Post on Sunday, you know, when you're always with the Montreal

Canadians, I mean, you're focusing on one team all the time, feels like. And when I read the story that, you know, that the players decided that the season was over, there'll be no playoffs. and now we know exactly what they think, and they decided that it was, you know, the end of the season and see you next year. I was like, I was reading that. I was like, oh, that's not fun.

That's not supposed to be, you know, the way the Islanders are as a team. And I believe that's exactly what happened to Patrick is, you know, Patrick Dars decided to make a move to get a really good coach. Not that Patrick is not a good coach, but a coach that probably is going to be with the Islander. for the next three season. So that's why I believe, you know, they made it that,

not that trait, but that decision to fire Patrick Webb. Ren, one more for me. You got, you're here to the ground. We saw major changes real recent in Vegas, Toronto, Islanders, New Jersey. What teams next? Detroit. Oh, can we? Well, no.

Wow. I wasn't expecting that. They got. I wasn't not exactly. He's the son of all sons, Stevie Eisenman and Detroit. I know. And everyone loves Stevie and rightly so.

But that's a name that I'm, that's out there since the last few weeks, right? And it's really sad because I think they did a big step this season. But injuries after that, like of that. And that's a big problem. When you have injured players and you don't have depth, you're in, you're not going to, you're not going to survive. Look at the Montreal Caneans.

Kirby Doc and Alex Dexia are coming back tonight. Who's got that luxury in the NHL to say, hey, you know what? We have a couple of guys here that didn't play because they were injured. They didn't play for last month. But you know what? Didn't practice with the team for last month. It doesn't matter. Let's go.

They're going to play tonight against the Panthers. You know, that's that's, it's not easy to. have depth in the NHL, but when you have it, it's going to save your job. That's for sure. Ren, love having you on the show, man. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it, pal. Nope.

Sorry for, you know, the Maple Leaf fans and all that. Buddy. Hey, I don't know what to say. If their team played with the passion, you just showed in this segment, that's right. They'd be in the playoffs. First line center, Ren. All right, guys, thanks for having me.

Enjoy to wrestle the week. You too. Renaud LeVois, one of the best. He's one of our Hall of Fame guests. We should actually create a Hall of Fame. Yeah. We should have some sort of star system or something.

He's in it. Yeah, he's in it. He's in it. Valley. I mean, Valley. Valley and Doug. Back is what a... Those three are...

Of course, Stelic. Yeah, Stalick. It's a... Okay, so he mentioned the Detroit thing, okay? And this is why, like, I always find hiring team legends. Yeah. Awkward.

because no one lasts forever no one last forever no one last really got to fire the guy and stevie eisenman is probably the most beloved red wing of all time outside of gordy howe like there's like he's one a one b there and you go there and there's all this excitement the eiser plan he's a former legend and it just hasn't gone right and i'm not going to say you tamper your legacy on the ice obviously but people are going to remember this recency bias matters and i just i think those yeah but I don't think they go into the type of job that they know needs to get done, worrying about that part of their legacy.

But they don't, but maybe it's worth everyone considering before you do it. But that's just other people's perception. And I don't think Stevie Eisenman cares. I don't know Steve Eisenman well. The last thing he would care about is how you remember him by, if you can't remember me as a player and the Stanley Cups and what I bring. brought and the heart and all of it, then I don't care if you think I'm just a big loser that can't get the Detroit Red Wings in the playoffs.

But if you're a fan of the Red Wings, who's my age, let's say, you're, you have the greatest memories of Steve Eisenman. And now you've been how many years out of the playoffs? I know, but I don't think that's on the top of his mind. Well, it's on his mind, but it's on a lot of the fans' mind. And I'm sure tons of people in Detroit are having that thought. I know. But that's just, that's the chance that he takes.

It worked for Joe Sackick. It is different if you win a cup. Win a cup. Win a cup. It's all you need. Whether you are a Hall of Famer or Brian Burke or anyone else, it's always about the cops. But it's insane to think it's not an additional risk.

When you go back to that place where you've been a legend, because there are certainly people now who are not like, yay, Stevie Eisenman. They're like, I killed us for a decade. So he doesn't sell as many jerseys. Yeah, yeah. Just maybe less Less esteemed.

I mean, they got another huge game tonight. Do they play Columbus every game? Feels like it. By the way, this week is seven years. The Eisenman got hired in Detroit seven years ago. Zero playoff appearances. Sevens too many. That's too many games.

Listen, boys, Montreal, they could be dominant for a very long time. I do think they're just on the cusp of now how great I think they're going to be. What they do next matters a lot. I hear what you were implying to him about how to use these picks and prospects to shore your lineup. Right now when you look at that team and you go, love everything they've done. And if anyone's been listening to Meetalk for the past two weeks,

I have been heaping praise on the Montreal Canadiens. The one thing is you look at it is Suzuki's not huge. He's very strong, but Koffel's not huge. Hudson's not huge. So we talked about Matthew Nyes as a potential trade partner for them. Yes, some of those bodies. I'm interested to see. how hard they go out at Coffield and a Suzuki

in a seven-game series, these teams. If you take them away, you take away a lot of that team. Well, certainly that's going to be the question is do those guys can they? Can they withstand it? Yeah. And my honest gut on that is that, yeah. Like, Coffield is a gamer. Suzuki's could be arguably the smartest player in the league right now.

And Clutch City. So I think they'll be okay, but definitely guys are going to test them. Three on three in this thing in the cup playoffs? Half Caulfield's goals. You heard of. John Sedgwick. Yes. I heard of,

but I couldn't tell you who he is. He heard the name, but no idea. He's in Montreal. He's like the kind of the third guy outside of Jeff Gordon. Okay. And, uh, uh,

yeah, I think that that's a name that like he would interest even the Toronto Maple Leaf to go, okay, you know, and whether or not. Whether or not you think he's GM material or not, those are the type of guys that you go, okay, like what's been their secret sauce now for the last 10 years?

Yeah, totally. I guess that's why you hire a firm, is to find the guy beneath the guys, who's given the guys the guy, good input guys. Guys, guy. So you mentioned to him, if they're willing to part with whatever package that you, like you hypothesized in your Kippers, Leafs, buzz,

or whatever it was. I'm not sure the name of it. I'm not sure if that was named. I have no idea what they name it. I just hand them it and then I go home. Cash the check. But if they're willing to part with, like, let's say, they've got all their first.

They got their first this year, next year, the year after they haven't part with anything. That Hage, if they're willing to part with him, one of their defensive prospects, that's how you get a real number one center. That's how you get a real guy that takes you. I'm not saying Suzuki isn't that. but a 1A or a 1B

Like they are Spooky They're spooky for a leaf fan right now They are heading towards Not dynasty But years and years of being extremely good Suzuki now 26 years old Going to hit 100 points this year

And probably win the Selkee trophy Shout out my guy makes me sick Owns out attack legend But I'll always love him And I'll always love you But for that tying goal against Chekia It was a big moment But honestly, I wish it hadn't happened because then we wouldn't have lost the state.

It would not have it would have mattered. Game time. It's game time. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

Very excited for the segments today. I was just going to quickly pull up Bet365. We did this already in the first hours. There's separate hours. Oh, my God. I'm just typing into the search bar here. NHL specials. NHL specials.

on Bet 365. What comes up here? Oh, Toronto May Police next permanent general manager. The favorite is Sunny Mata. Plus 225. Mike Gillis, Kevin Adams, Chris Pronger, and John Chica all tied at plus 650. Thank you, Sammy. Now we'll go to a quick break. Brandon Pridham, 12 to 1. Mark Cunner, 12 to 1, Doug Armstrong 16 to 1. goes down the list. You name George McPhee on this list. Jason Spetz is named on this.

Scroll down a little bit to 75 to 1 plus 7500. Nick Kemprios. Keper. What the hell? Kipper. Did you put a suggestion in their box? My favorite stat that Sammy gave me earlier is you have the same odds of being the Leafs GM as Patrick Cantley has to win the Masters.

I love that because Cantley can win. You can absolutely win. Did you pick them in our pool? No, but I might pick you. Do you think I would immediately be in cuffs for insider or whatever? But your sports says John T. Porter immediately. Do you think I got an inside track? I didn't tell me anything.

Do you think I got an inside track because Neil and I sold water, GPA water together? You got the GPA angle here. It's a reasonable lane to pursue. Anyways, some big ones on the ice tonight, including Columbus and Detroit, in Detroit. They got to really start winning some hockey games if they want to have a chance.

minus 115 favorites against the Columbus Blue Jackets, Ottawa with another huge one hosting the Lightning, minus 135 in the money line there. A potential first round series matchup a little later on, Edmonton taking on the mammoth, plus 115, the Oilers on the money line. And Vegas again, what a great time to hire a new coach. Playing Vancouver again, minus 260 in the money line,

plus 210 are the Vancouver Canucks. Unfortunately, Vegas has the great Seattle cracking after that. Oh, my God, they knew. Kelly's really good at it. He's smart. Anyways, that was game time, presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

I usually enjoy those with you. Not today? Not today. Oh, you love it. All right. You love it. Quick break. He also wants president, not GM.

Actually, hold on. What's that? Before we go to break. Oh, God. Before we go to break. You're like Doug McLean right now. I'm a little nervous. This is, okay, so we talked about it in our lease hour.

But yesterday, we had Luke Fox on and we mentioned the fact that potentially Craig Brubay would not be leaving. And you were laughing at the reaction and you said you wouldn't watch the clip. And the crack staff upstairs, aka Jake Schultz, we have the video if you want to watch it. Oh, yes. So if we could go to the video here. And watch Justin's reaction at Craig Barubi possibly returning next season for the Toronto Maple Leaf. Here we go.

If we could play that. There might be a little bit momentum with the thought that Craig Barubi could weather the huge storm this season and somehow be there in September for the Toronto Maple Leaf. It's crazy to say it, Nick. I think there's a chance. I think it's a... Those eyes cannot get bigger. You guys know how I feel.

Oh, my goodness. I'm an open book. We'd make our show a little more entertaining if he does hang around next year. Kippa what? Kippers' Klippers have reeked for two years. Bring me Patrick. Okay. Perhaps if we had John Cooper on our Kippers Clipper.

Is there potentially a chance? We've got some John Cooper after the break. We do. And my boy, Pontus, got hurt last night. Did he ever? Is there an investigation going on in the National Hockey League? We'll answer that question when we return to the Real Sammy and Bourne show. Soon.

Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things, Leifes, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning, 6 to 9. It's the fan morning show. Sportsnet 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Born, brought to you by Bet365. Neciprios, J.B. Sammy McKee.

Okay, we all saw Pontus Holmberg slide into the boards. Okay. So the door was open, but it wasn't, like, it wasn't wide open. Here's what I would call it. What would you call it? It was ajar.

The door was a jar. Was it a door or a jar? Somebody was ready to come out. I watched the game. I didn't notice it. I'm sure upon a review of it. It was enough to, like, Is that the only reason why he's hurt or it's just?

Because he slid. He slid hard. And he hit head and shoulder as the primary port of contact. If you've ever done that, that's an instant. Uh-oh, something's out of place. One of the most gruesome injuries I can remember. Like the door being open is really bad. And the guy that we played for the Sends for a while, played on the bruce.

PJ Axelson, maybe. I mean, that's a guy. He got caught up on like an open door. I think he had to get some of his like intestine removed. He got hit it so hard. Wasn't this a part of the Detroit, Colorado? Like, you all know, there was the dasher. It was the dasher that got Draper when Claudelemyu hit him from behind,

hit him right into the edge of the board. But just I can't picture a more dangerous play than going by an open door. No, it's so bad. It's brutal. So I always had to open up the door, my door, when I got a penalty or is in the penalty box? Right. There wasn't some.

someone in there doing it. There was always somebody there. I got burned once early. And I'm like, it was on the road. And my first thought is, you mother. Yeah, someone. How did they open it wrong? Well, just they delayed it.

They delayed it. I'm like, open the door. And it's like, I want it cracked open, right? Because I want a step on the ice when it's over. Every second counts when it's live. Yeah, go on the other way. And it's like. And a split second can be the difference of anything, right?

As we know in the game. It was not PG. And there would be some officials that were like, no, I have to do it. And I'm like, no, you don't have to do it. I've got it. So I did. Grab some guy by the scruff. You don't watch on the clock go to zero and then open the door.

We all know that like you're just doing whatever you can to cheat it as much as you can. Yeah. So I don't know where that situation was last night. Well, you know what sucks is now this is going to make it. So we do have another look at it. We're going to have like a full investigation on when the door opens and who opens the door. The door's not going to be allowed to open until the clock strikes triple zero. I got an idea.

Review. That's how a review. Challenge system. ABS. Okay, here we go. We got the good slow-mo. He's going into the door. It's a little.

Oh, it's open. Yeah, I don't think the door had anything to do with that. It's not clasped. It gets caught. His momentum stops. Of course it has something to do with that. I think he shut it pretty good. I do, too.

The door being ajar affected that play. Okay. And John Cooper thinks otherwise. Let's talk to John. Let's listen to John, I should say. Yeah, I think it's clip two. It's clip two. Like I said, I said this morning,

you want to be playing well and you want to get through healthy, and that obviously didn't happen again tonight. I don't know who's working the penalty box over there, but I don't know if they should keep their job after what happened there, like leaving the door open. I could have hurt anybody on either team, and those are just dangerous. situation. So a little frustrated on

my part, to be honest. How was Pontus? Not good. Not good. That's bad. He lost a very important guy in his lineup. Yeah. He's one of the best defensive forwards in the NHL.

But your Leafs would have made the playoffs if they kept onus. Oh, give me a brain. He says whoever it was working the door, it's the same guy in every rank. It's like a They don't fly him around. No, I just meant like, it's a short old guy that sits there. It's like if you've lined up all the guys across the league

that are in the, they would generally look the same. It's always been the same looking guy. They were former gold judges. Yeah. It's an old looking dude that sits there. And it's, it is. But we can't take that away from them. Those are volunteer jobs, right?

Those are. No, I don't think so. They just go home and die. They need this. Maybe you're getting. The role has evolved. They really need this job. Getting a hundred bucks or something to work the game.

I don't know. And a ticket. Yeah, that's true. I think it's... Premo Seat. Objectively hilarious that you cut to the box and some guy in the heat of the battle is going banana sandwich in there.

Oh, you idiot. You have MF, MF. And there's just a senior citizen sitting there beside him. Well, he's loving. He's going to tell all his pals. Yeah, like the Tim Horton's, they're going to. going to the next morning he gets to tell he's like oh that true doubt he really is a light enough yeah i just find it very funny they can probably tell us who's dating who they'd have all sorts

info i don't know it's always been funny to me but i guess you need somebody to open the door it's a pretty good gig now that i think about it even just for the ticket that's you know what i got an idea for mlsc they should sell that job sell the job like i mean they're everything's been for sale under the like with the leaps i mean i would pay i would pay i would pay a ton to be that guy for the game yeah that's the best job in the house you get to sit by there the players come in there pissed off. You're not working the time clocker in me. You're just like open a door. I can do that. Me at the house hockey game.

I'm okay with doing all that. Just leave the dressing room alone. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Team stuff. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

All right. Did you watch any of that Tampa Bay Buffalo game last night? I just wanted to note that I'm singing a different tune on Buffalo. No. Really? Was it a little duller than? It was duller. It was duller.

But Buffalo. had the puck the whole time. They controlled the play. Tampa was counter punching, which is unusual. And I know they were without a number of players, but that it felt like a pretty convincing Sabers win. And I do

feel like maybe I haven't come around. Given enough credit? Yeah, I do feel like maybe I haven't come around enough on the Sabres lineup. It's not, the forwards aren't sexy enough for you. They're not. They're not. Like in a big game and you want someone to break it open, like I know Tage

scores but after that like I just they don't have that name but they are so solid all the way through and their D are so good they just control the puck the whole game my favorite part of that game is Cory Perry getting kind of hit into the bench and his stick goes into the bench and he's kind of like just whack

and then they're holding it and he pulls it and then the ref comes over to him he's like Perry's life is just that his statue after he retires is just him going what me and the rest like buddy you're Cory Perry I've been rep for a while it's two minutes for Cory Perrying

you've got another parrying he's literally like whack and tuck in the face of the stick interesting to listen to Ren at the top of our hour and if you have missed it go to Spotify our Apple podcast or YouTube to find it but he talked about how

Cory Perry's this player that the event stance just don't work for and I don't know that that's true but anyway it's Probably true. You think he would have good stats and rent?

I think it depends year over year, maybe at that time. He's talking about four years ago. He must have had a bad year or something. I don't, Corey Perry and Edmonton was an excellent contributor. You know, like he was not. But did the advanced stats support it? I honestly, I don't know. Yeah.

I think what you're getting at, what Ren is getting at, is the thing that has been the core of the argument of advanced stats in hockey is you can't quantify heart, you can't quantify tangibles or intangible tangibles. You can't quantify that and that's what he's getting at

and that's what Corey Perry is. Sunny Meta has been a hot button topic around here with the Toronto Maple Leafs as a potential GM. Someone did say to me, though, that one of the delays on re-uping Sam Bennett on the contract because it

went long, right, a lot longer. And they lowballed them like crazy. And that was someone suggested maybe led by Sunny that he wasn't a big fan of resigning Bennett. And, you know, maybe he might be proven correct, maybe in year three or four or whatever. Is this year one of Sam's contract? It is. Yes.

Right. And whether or not Sam's numbers. would support a player that, you know, the analytics would like, not just Sunny, but any one of them. Right. Right. And that's that very important line in terms of how much evidence

do you let the paperwork dictate on guys like Cory Perry and Sam Bennett. To be honest, this is all very frustrating. Because like this conversation has been had a million times. The stuff about heart. Yeah. If you are a player who plays with heart, should show up in the numbers that it helps you play in that end or score more or do something more. And there is a whole litany of people.

You can't measure heart on paper. Well, I'm not saying you can measure it on paper, but if this heart. It should make you smarter. It should make you. Yeah. And those things should show up in the way. In the big moments, maybe not. And so every person I know in analytics in the NHL, every single one will tell you that the computer is not the answer.

And you talk to Valley on our show. And he says the data leads you to the video. video. So you say, Corey Perry is the worst player in the NHL, according to Wren, which let's just say that's 100% true. Well, then let's watch why. Where is he bad? Why is it bad? Let's watch the video and let's get the hockey men in here. And that's what the guy did. He brings you to hockey. So, you know, if that's right with Sonny and Sam Bennett, maybe, but at the same time, while he was there, this team traded for Sam Bennett and they traded for Matthew

Chuck and they traded for Hagee and Rodriguez and Seth, Jones and a whole bunch of guys who maybe were in a worse spot. It claimed forzling off waivers who's been one of their best guys. So tough for me to cherry pick this thing and be like, yeah. It'd be interesting to hear Kyle Dubus six or seven years ago on why he got presented Corey Perry and turned him down. Yeah.

Love Jason Spez, I guess. But no, I don't think. No, it was Wayne Simmons. Wayne Simmons. Was Simmons a Sue guy? I think it's the fatal flaw of dubus Wayne Simich was in Onsenant Attack Yeah I don't think it was too

Yeah Anyways it's still fascinating I like I don't think There's still I'm in the middle Yeah With you guys

I really like You should be in the middle That's where you should be And that's why I want 21 degrees In the middle I want them to be like Yeah that makes sense

But let's watch the game And make our own decisions as well And use it But It will always come down to one guy and the buck stops with him and is it going to be a guy with a hockey gut feeling or is it going to be what the numbers tell you? Like we're not dealing in hearsay.

Like I worked for Kyle Dubas who was the GM of the Toronto Marley's and I watched him make decisions and it doesn't, there's no spreadsheet that spits it out and you go, that's the guy. It comes down to a decision. You go, at the end of the day, it's a guy making a decision. decision. Yeah. And his was, I don't care how big they are. I don't care how small they are.

No, it's not true. Skill, skill, skill. It is true. No, no, it's not true. It's true that he had a preference for skill over meatheads. It worked pretty good for him for a while. Regardless of their size. Regardless of their size.

They would say that there is an inefficient. Draft, the highest skilled guy. I don't care how small he is. And I would not defend his draft record. Really? No. Leaves could have used Will. Gully instead of Colby.

That's been great. I want to like that one. Anyways. All right, fascinating. See you Thursday. We're off tomorrow. We are off tomorrow. Sammy, where are you taking me?

No way. Golfing. Oh, uh, Burlington. Oh, boy. It's going to be cold. All right. Our thanks with Jason Buchla. Sorry, if you know about golfing tomorrow.

And Ren.