Real Kyper & Bourne - Difficulties of a Culture Change in a Hockey Club

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Former NHL President and GM Doug MacLean (2:25) joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to weigh in on how the Toronto Maple Leafs aren't playing as a team through their tough stretch, if it's possible to change the 'culture' mid-way through the season without firing the head coach, the similarities how the year has unfolded for the Leafs and Edmonton Oilers, and why Jim Rutherford is avoiding the word 'rebuild'. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee look at the status of the 2026 Winter Olympics' rink and the concerns from the NHL before heading to the text line for some Q&A! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, we go national on the real Kipper and Boorn show. Bore. Boring. I can be a bore. We're live on SportsNats, SportsSat 650 in Vancouver, 960 in Calgary. And streaming, always on Sportsnet Plus. If you don't catch us live, download us at your earliest convenience. Spotify, Apple Podcasts.

YouTube this hour of real Kippurn born brought to you by bet three six five and as we get going here we want to remind you send in texts at 590 590 right sam yeah make sure you get them in early and often 590 590 and we don't want please god not all the leaves like calgary text us Vancouver text us edmonton ottawa nova scotia cape bratton i want to hear from all you hear from new brunswick How about when Sam lists our guests, like it's like the guess and then a few suggested questions. The first one for Doug McLean is, Leafs suck. Now what?

That's way too personal and like that's just your little hell you're going through. How many hockey related questions in our fair city and our fair country revolve around those four words? Yeah, most of them Yeah, I think that sums it up So it sums it up nicely No, it's not bad It's funny Max not on right now

Okay, I know we just finished The Leaf edition of our program But I'm going to come back I'm going to read it exactly the way Sam typed it out And then we're going to bet how long he goes Oh yeah All right Like I'm seriously contemplating maybe going up and getting a coffee

Three minutes minimum you know we should do we'll pause we should make it a goal to read the questions as they're written all of them to whatever guest one day and I'll just say Doug Senators extend Shane Pinto I love that and just see what we get no all you have to do is Doug that's it you don't even have to say anything else and he'll go on what do you guys want to talk about Jack Hughes's hand or the Olympics oh Doug's here we have we have Doug oh we have Doug oh how long you've been listening Oh, boy.

It's the first time I listened to the show. Oh, you guys are good. Okay. I'm just talking about it. I had you on with Panger there on, you know, on SportsNet down here in Florida. So it was good. All right. Welcome back to the program.

You've been taking a few days off, you know, early in our season here. We don't really appreciate it. You know, I'm busy. I've got a lot of things going on. I found another new golf course. So I've been trying to get out and play a little golf. I'm trying to, my game's plateaued, and I'm really working at it. I'm doing a lot of swimming.

I'm just trying to just trying to stay young, you know, and vibrant, you know. Mack, does Jill make you wear that shirt in case you get lost at the beach? I just went out to the patio and I said, is this okay for TV just to bug them? It's working. It's working. So, Mack, I'm going to read your first question. question exactly the way it was written by Sam okay and it goes like this leifs suck now what you know what it's kind of fun i watched the game last night and uh you know it's getting challenging to to watch but look um i just want to i just want to go back in in history here for

about a few days when Steve Stale stood up to the media in Ottawa and said that he was really ticked off that he thought his team threw away a bunch of points early in the year. And I'm thinking, listening to it, they don't have Kachuk, they've got, you know, some challenges to say the least. His $7 million goal tender wasn't really making saves. And I'm thinking, wow, what a comment. And I look today and I see they're in first place. Without Kuchuk, they're in first place.

And I really believe, and I go back to the Stales comment, I think what they've done there, Steve Stales, Travis Green, they've created, they've started to create a winning culture. A winning culture amongst the group. and today they're in first place and they have a big win over the Bruins last night missing Kachuk and Shabbat

and still had a big win so the culture is still alive and well in the NHL a winning culture I hear the guys say well you know they don't want to dump the puck what do you mean they don't want to dump the puck

stars dump the puck if that's what they have if that's all they have they dump the puck okay everybody says okay Florida Panthers. Well, they're a bunch they grind it out. They grind it out. Listen

who grinds it out for the Florida Panthers. Barcoff does. Eklad does. Reinhardt does. Kachuk does. Bennett does. Jones does. Lundell does and Brad Marchand. That's eight

first round picks. A lot of them taken in the top five. And they dumped the puck when they are supposed to dump the puck, and they play as a team. And the Leafs have got to figure this out really quick, that you're a team, and you play the way the coach wants you to play. And when eventually it doesn't work, they fire the coach, and another coach comes in.

But you've got to play what you're being told to play as a group. And look, I understand Matthews isn't in the lineup. I get that. something, I don't know what's bothering him, but he's got to become a lot better. Their gold tenon will be a lot better. When they get Tanneth and McKay back together, they will be a little bit better.

The panic there, it's not good. And I understand it because I watched last night, and I'm looking like at nine shots after two periods and hardly a scorn chance. So the culture is still not there in Toronto. And I pointed out to Ottawa because I think they're trying to build a culture. And today, you'd have to say, Ottawa, I said I had them even going into the season, these two teams.

Ottawa are a better team than them right now by a margin. And they've got better players and they play as a team. How long was that answer? Three minutes and 15 seconds. Hey. Okay, hold on. I guess what I would say after reading Borny's article the other day, I would say they're all. guilty.

Mack, it's mid-November here. How do you just snap your fingers and wake up and have culture or change the culture or improve the culture? How? I'm not the guy that brought it up. Their general manager brought it up in the summer that he was going to change the DNA. That is another word for sort of like culture. You know what I'm saying?

And right now, they look like their skill level has dramatically declined. It's dramatically declined their skill level. And I can't figure it out. I mean, I know Tavares has played well, and I know Nyes has been okay for me. He hasn't been the horse. I thought he would take a bigger step. And I think he will as the season goes on. Their goaltending has got to cover for some mistakes sometimes.

You need the whole team. going. But to me, there's, there's, I don't know if it's, if it's the pressure in Toronto. It can't be that. It can't be that. But whatever is bugging this team and look, you're going to fire Craig Barubi. Come on. Come on. Keep Pelly and Tree Limin are going to fire Craig Barrowby now. Are you serious? His second year in the league. I mean, come on. You can't do that. You've got to right now fix this team and get your group back together. get your goaltending back on place, get your D-partners back together

and figure out how you want to play. And is it possible to change culture in season with the same players? Culture can change if you start to have success. If you start to win some games and you realize how you're winning. Yeah, your goaltender has to win you some games. Yeah, you're shut down deep hair. McCabe and Teneff have got to help you.

win a game. McMatthews has got to win you a game. Nye's has got to help you win. Nylander, you know, he's good enough. So, and, and there's got, and look, with that, with that, Berubi's got to understand that they've got, every NHL player today has to play with a little bit of freedom. No. Is that Jill? Is it the commissioner? No, it's, no, it's my buddy, business partner. Listen, from, yeah, from L.A. But anyway, Burubi's got to let them play with. They've got to play with a touch of freedom, a touch of freedom, because freedom breeds a little bit of creativity.

They're so non-creative right now. They're playing slow, and there's real, they've got some mental challenges going on right now, that they've got to work their way through it. I really do. I really believe, and I think the panic has got to calm down. And this Barubi, firing Barubi talk, like, come on, seriously.

Who are they going to put in there? Come on. Think about it. DeBoer. DeBoer got fired in Jersey after a year and a half or whatever. After a couple of years in San Jose. Then he got fired in Vegas.

Then he get fired in Dallas. All good teams. And he's the savior. I like Peter DeBore. He's had an unbelievable career. But come on. He's not. he the coach is not the problem right now all right so if if we were to compare like issues in

Toronto to Edmonton are they similar they not because last time I checked the you know I see McDavid and Drysidl still finding ways to carry this team but where there are issues compared to Toronto's they're pretty close they're pretty close I mean the only difference is they I guess they've gone to the finals the last two years, and they've got McDavid and Dry Sidel. Their goal tending is frightening. The way they're defending, the way they're playing in the front of the net,

you know, it is frightening right now, but I'll tell you what, I watched a few clips of there. Actually, I watched a little bit of their game last night as well. And I'm thinking, when I watched Drysidal score that goal, I'm thinking, wow, when have I seen a pure goal score shoot? or score how many different ways this guy scores goals.

I was blown away, blown away watching them last night. I mean, he is a... Would you have an answer to that? And here's the difference between Toronto and them. If that offside wouldn't have been called, they would have probably won the game. So are we left to the conclusion that the Oilers are better, worse something than last year?

Do they need to make changes or what's going on? Well, the goal. old tending is such a major issue. Why are they so reluctant to do something there? Well, here's a big problem. Like I look today, what are the Leafs? They need a top six forward and they need a top 4D. But here's the problem.

Most teams in the league need that. And if you don't get your work done in the summer, it's really hard to get it done during the season until you get to trade deadline. That's why it's tough to make those type of deals to acquire those high-end players. You know, like the picking up the Marchons and you pick up the Joneses like Florida have done over the years.

But those deals typically come at the deadline or in the off-season. It's hard to do it right now. And, you know, I just think they're both teams. And I think Edmonton, because of Dry Seidel and, you know, McDavid and Hyman coming back, Bouchard's going to find his game. They still have got the challenge.

with goaltending and I don't know how you fix that I don't know how you fix it you're watching and listening to Doug mclean on off the rails Friday so mac you mentioned culture and it seems to follow around Brad Marchand everywhere you mentioned him a thousand points um the feeling was when he was leaving Boston to go to Florida it was just to be amongst you know a supporting guy to the bark ofs and the

rhinards and the bandits and we wake up today and it feels like the Florida Panthers is Brad Marchand's team today. Like it's blowing me away like since the first day he went there. I had heard it before

from players in Boston. You know, Sean Coralli used to tell us what a leader he was. What an unbelievable teammate he was and what a leader he was. And when a kid made the team, when you make the team, you became Brad Mershant's friend, you know,

because he meant that much. He's grabbed this team by the bootstraps in Florida this year and has hauled them into games. He's hauling them into games. And, you know, that's what I mean. Those type of acquisitions, I know, I remember you going off on tangents last year, the Leafs have got to get Mershan,

they got to get Mershan, they got to get somebody like him. Well, I hate to say this. You were right in two things. when I was working with you, you were ranting and raven that the Leafs should get Bennett. And now you're ran and Raven, they should have got Mershon. And I have to give you credit, you were right on both. I mean, you've been wrong in a lot of things, too. They tried.

They tried. They've been wrong in a lot of things, but you were right on those two things. The Leafs did try. But, you know, I know, yeah, they tried. They didn't try hard enough, obviously, you know. Sure would like to go back in time and give him an extra million dollars per year on whatever offer they gave them. So I think, I just think of. they can win some games, but they're not going to get it going, guys, until they get

wall and stolers back to their game. Because they've got to win games for them. How many players a year have to win games for you? You need your stars to, you need your goalies to win you some games. You're not supposed to win. You need your captain and superstar to win games that you're not supposed to win. You need your grinders to win your games that you're not supposed to. to win. That's what you need

as a group and develop a team. And right now they're not a team. This is, I mean, look, and it's hard for me. I was thinking, you know, the troubles I had in Columbus, and how hard it is to win. And I said you guys in the spring, be careful when you give away

good players. They're hard to find. Really hard to find. Absolutely. Hey, kind of along this theme, I'm thinking about the Vancouver Canucks lately who gave up, not gave up J.T. Miller, but you know, they've moved on from some decent players

over time here. Jim Rutherford had some comments in the past day or two basically saying that, like, they're not rebuilding. It doesn't always work when you tear it all down and things are, they're below 500 right now. What do you think of where the Canucks are at, the idea of continually

trying to compete when you're pretty clearly not a cup contender or even close? Yeah. Well, I think it's really tough. Like, I read the article as well from Jimmy and I thought there was one thing that kept jumping out at me

as to why he was talking that way and I'll tell you exactly what it is good. Use does not want to hear they're going into a rebuild because if that is, if those words are mentioned, guess what? He gone. He will not be there. And you know, you've got Demko

coming back who's been unbelievable and now he's banged up again. Hopefully it's minor. Adams had them playing hard despite a lot of injuries. But it jumped out at me plain and simple. You bring up that, you don't have to worry about it. Okay, so Matt, take us through the minds of an executive like Jimmy Rutherford. You've been there before, okay?

You got the situation with Hughes in two years, he's UFA. How do you go about it? At what point do you have to definitively find out what's going on? You cannot run the risk, the same risk that Toronto Maple Leafs made on Marner, where he essentially gets to walk out the door for free. So what do you do? Guys, what do you do? If that happens, it is not a rebuild.

It is a major rebuild, to say the least. Here's the challenge. I talked to Jimmy Devalano recently about this. The NHL GM job today is so much more difficult. And the number one reason it is is because guys can walk after seven years of pro. That puts enormous pressure on team building, team construction, and every aspect of it. The other thing, and Jimmy D. said when I got to, the job in Detroit, I thought, he said to me, Doug, I thought I have to be a dummy not to get

this Detroit Red Wing team in the playoffs. 16 of 21 teams make the playoffs. If I can't be one of 16, then I'm a dummy. Today, it's 16 to 32. You get zero help typically from the lottery because it's a joke when a team goes from 14 to 1 and 11 to 2 and the bottom teams are bottom feeders. And you've got to be unbelievably lucky to win the lottery. lottery. So between the lottery and between, you know, the free agency and so many and so hard. No trade

clause, no move clauses. 100%. It's all those things have complicated the job. So, you know, and Jimmy, well, you can't read. And rebuilding in Vancouver, I don't get what's happened to them. I mean, the J.T.

Miller, Patterson, thing, how that got out of hand for the life of me, I thought they were, the year they went seven games with Edmonton two years ago I thought they were ready to take a major step I really did but anyway I got to ask you about Calgary and

Murray Edwards is the owner in Calgary who came out earlier through various reports. There's no interest in trading cadre no so for a team that's on the bottom right now and he's at a 35 year old still

in demand around the league what does that do for Calgary or Craig Conroy when the owner says no interest in moving cadry? Then you have to schedule another lunch with him. I told you when I used to go

to lunch with Mr. McConnell, they were great lunches because he'd fall asleep. I'd eat my lunch and I'd leave before he woke up. So they were perfect. That's really incredible to me. And you're not kidding either. But I got to tell you, the best story ever was

when we went to we're at a board of governor's meeting and I was up, Mr. McConnell was having trouble walking so I went up and got him his meal and brought it down to him and Berkey sends me a text you, you kiss ass. Next thing you'll be else

next thing you'll be cutting his meat so that's my advice to pray cut his meat another meeting with him do whatever you have to do to allow you to make and trades. How different are the relationships

between owners and GMs now? Like now there's corporations involved. You can't be cutting the meat of like a private equity firm. You know, hey, don't ever kid yourself. There's a lot of them still the very same. There's a lot of them haven't changed. I'll tell you. So you know what?

And now, and they got Anderson there, the savior for every team in the league. The last time I watched him, he was worse covering the front of the net than any of the Leafs defenseman so let's not get too excited there about his defensive play i like the way he passes the puck but in you know he's got he's got a few issues too so don't get too excited does that i don't know people everyone is excited about trying to pry rasmus anderson out of

there um let's talk about other canadian teams right now the montreal canadian started red hot a couple injuries kate and goolees hurt uh not sure if you know hook last night went down and They lost a couple games in a row in relatively embarrassing fashion. What are your thoughts and where they're at, Doug? Like, is this a blip? What are the Canadians? You know, I love their, you know, you love their talent base. They've gone through a bit of a rebuild,

and they've got some nice, very good-looking players there that are, you know, playing well. But, you know, last night, and again, I come back to culture. I come back to Dallas rolling in there, Montreal playing well and they spank them and it was a you know it was a fun game for Dallas

but it's it's expectations of the good teams you watch Colorado the way they're playing now I mean it's all business it's all business it's not and you watch Dallas come in last and I know they didn't have a good play out last year but they're all business when they play

Robertson put on a show last night but it again it's it's that culture that Jimmy Nill and them have bred out there. I think it's, I, people laugh about it. I still think it's a really, really important part of the game. I really do. Boy, you start seeing the distance between Western Conference teams and Eastern Conference teams.

And I don't know, there might be five teams in the West that you'd like better than any in the East. I mean, like, I mean, today, today, and I was thinking about this today. Today in the West, it's Colorado and Dallas. That's what it is for me. Based on 20 games or so, almost at the 20 game, those are the two teams that will play for the championship in the West, in my opinion.

In the East, it is wide, wide open. Ed, right now, who would you say in the East is the best team right now for you? Would it be New Jersey? Would it be? I'm until Jack until Jack you's cut his hand

at the team dinner last night that's all they need but I like the way I like the way Jersey's playing but it's there's nobody that everybody's come and gone you know with spurts of looking good I mean when Ottawa's

in first place today and you know what's that tell you I mean it's tied with Montreal That's right. Montreal are there. And I look at the stand. I mean, I look at the standings of the first five teams that are in the playoffs. I'm thinking, I don't, I, I didn't have four of them in the playoffs. Yet they're in there right now. That's why it's so wide open. But it's going to, to me, to me, Caroline is still a very good team, but they refuse to fix their goaltending. I don't know what they're going to do there. They refuse to. But I still think they're a really good team. The Panthers, I don't. don't know if Barcoff's going to be back or not. I don't know what, you know, that'll be a tough, a tough situation. But it is so wide open in the East.

It's scary how I don't know. I tell you, I like Ottawa. I love, I love Pinto. I like Batherson. I like Sanderson. I just, there's so many of those young guys that seem to be getting it, seem to be getting it, you know, and I like, I like what I'm saying now. A strange situation with Jack Hughes.

If you haven't heard, he cut himself at it. team meal last night. He's juggling knives? I don't know. What is the strangest call you got off ice for a guy that was unavailable to play? I guess the one I got was that they come into my office. Was it because they were going to be arrested, you mean? It's open to you answer any way you want.

I had two guys come in my office and say they had. some trouble last night. They ran into a park car. So I said, well, go down and talk to our lawyer there, and you got, you know, and then we'll deal with the police and get this, we'll get this straight out. And the lawyer came and I said, Doug, we've got a little bit of a problem. I said, what's the problem?

They hit nine park cars. Come on, really? Stop it. And they had, and they had some friends with them that they shouldn't have with. Oh, no. Other than that, I mean, you know, like seriously, you know.

Is that in Columbus? I've seen minor to that. Yeah. The worst, the worst, though, was Lyle O'Deline calling me the night before our franchise home opener. Not home opener,

franchise home opener. I'm barbecuing in the backyard, having to relax the night. All excited about people coming to town and people in town for our franchise home opener. Lyle, my captain, calls me and said, Doug, I got a problem.

I said, Lyle, we all have problems. What's the problem? He said, I just got charged for impaired driving. I said, are you kidding me? The night before your first game? I thought, no, this can't be asked. And the Columbus media is astute as they are.

They found out about it five years later. So anyway, we were able to keep it under the, you know. But anyway, so, yeah, things happen, you know. 1-800 copper is that the number you dialed those are the stories i can tell there's some i can't tell my goodness well maybe we'll leave it off that uh that story um yeah all right anything else on your mind do you want to get off your pink t-shirt oh i i got i you know what you know it's good when bruce garyock sending me taxes he likes what i'm saying Oh, very Ottawa, very Ottawa, for sure.

Anyway, okay, man, everything's good. Everything's good. T-off time this afternoon. Jill just opened the room and told me to keep it down. Keep it down. Well, you're free, you're free. Yeah, it gets dark now. You're in Florida now.

There's no time to go golf. I'm not going to repeat everything she said, no. All right, back. Thanks for doing this, pal. Hey, thanks for having me, guys. Okay, and hang up, right? don't just linger thanks back have a good weekend Doug McLean everybody's

wow very funny that you and I both started our timer on Mac for the first answer we said we were going to 326 yeah 3 oh I had it at 315 but I was late starting my clock 17 326 yeah we weren't that far off

game time game time it's game time instead of my bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds and see why it's never ordinary at bet 365 Mr. 19 plus, Ontario only please play responsibly. So I was looking through some of the stuff while you were talking to Doug. And this is a really interesting one for me where you may be able to extract some value.

So you can bet on the country of the Stanley Cup winner. And of course, there are two countries that have hockey teams in the national hockey league. What do you think the number is for USA to win the cup? 70. Minus 700. It's only minus 400. Yeah. When Canada is plus 300.

So basically it's like, I looked at what the oilers are, and the oilers are 10 to 1 to win the cop. To me, that's a great bet, the USA to win the cup at minus 40. You know, I was actually going to ask. It's an awesome number. 10 to 1. 10 to 1. 10 to 1. Minas 400.

So you've got to lay some juice, obviously, some heavy juice. But like, what are the chances that a Canadian team wins the cup this year? They're getting worse every day. How many Canadian? teams made playoffs last year. Five and a sixth, the Calgary Flames tied for the final spot. So we almost had six in. Yes.

This year, Jets are in? Yes. I mean, that's a yes. Yes. Montreal is almost certainly in. Edmonton still, guys, really? They should be fine. Toronto or Ottawa, like maybe four this year.

Ottawa over Toronto for sure. Currently outside the playoff picture with a dash nine goal differential this year, Edmonton Oilers. Yeah. I'm just saying it could be three So yes, that bet could be good It's a decent number I was surprised by that

That the value on that was that good And there is Also another one on here I love teams To record 120 regular season points And if you look at what the Colorado Avalanche have done so far

How many points they have so far? I don't know 120 is a high They have 29 points from 18 games. They've won 12 games. They've lost one in regulation and had five overtime losses. 29 points from 18 games. They are plus 240 to get to 120 points.

Doable. Good bet. 120 points is like for them, they feel like they are going to go on like. They must be pacing it. They must be, they feel like they're going to go on like a 15 game winning streak at some point this year. They're undeniably great. So a couple interesting ones.

there from from uh from uh bet 365 anyways uh that was game of time presented by bet 365 visit the app for latest odds and see why it's never ordinary at bet 365 plus ontario only please play responsibly and do not forget we're going a break uh to text us at fan oh you're text us at 595 90 uh the lines are already pretty full but try to sneak a couple in here i got some good ones from all over the country okay on that note we'll take a break here uh we'll get to those After the break and also daily face-off, the athletic first reported about the concerns about the rink at the Olympics and now daily face-off today came out with more concerns

out of Commissioner Gary Bentman. We'll get into that more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL, the J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program, a reminder. This hour of Real Kipperman Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Capriels, Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee, we close out the week.

A little tired. I started playing hockey again, too. You're back into it. I love that. Yeah. That's great. How was it going? We saw it.

I fell the other day, Thursday morning, but the ribs held up. You fell? I did fall. Yeah. Tripped or? I just pushed over my own two feet. Yeah. Tripped on the blue line, I think.

To pick. That happens. About your skate cart on or? Certainly glad it didn't happen last week when we lit it up. That's great. Before we get into some texts, daily faceoff is followed up. a report from Gary Betman basically saying that

this is coming down to the wire it's not our preference essentially. That being an Olympic rink being ready. Yes, being ready so the whole idea was that this arena was going to have some sort of tournament play that was kind of

watched over by the double IHF in December that's not happening so the rink will be used for the first time by the Olympians. So that's in three months. And that would be the women first. Yep.

Because they start, I believe, five days before the men. Okay. So. Santa Giulia, Thursday the 12th against Chequia is Canada's first game. So there's just, there may be no way to know for sure how this rink's going to hold up. They could be playing a gold medal game in Slice. By the end of it

We will send our own people To take a look for ourselves Because the well-being of our players Playing this tournament is the most important thing Yeah He says it's coming down to the wire It wouldn't be our preference If we were in control

Hopefully it will be okay And they say we'll be Hopefully that's the case I want an analysis I tweeted like The first time I had the thought Might they not go? Like might they not allow the players to go?

My understanding From talking to a few people is it's not in jeopardy. Okay. They'll move it. They'll do a different venue. Different venue. They could,

they could be playing in Switzerland. Who knows? Honestly, I was the exact thing I was going to say. Just go to Davos. Just go have the tournament where the Spangler Cup is. Is there not other,

like this part of my complete ignorance, but is there's not another sheet anywhere? There's an Italian league, pal. Yeah, like there's got to be a sheet somewhere. A sheet with what, with 14 seats in it. Yeah, that's problem is that they're making bank. on this event you're not you're not taking how many seats is this supposed to be do we billion dollar athletes and sticking them to any sheet 17000 uh yeah so it's a brand new building

of space for 14000 state of the art acoustic sight lines modern amenities unique atmosphere blah okay so they're so to follow up on sheet talk here there's not another one with 14000 seats in a league i doubt i doubt like ac they have a hockey club i think uh raycroft played for a c milan at one point. Go get on the Google machine. Pogi played for AC Milan. How many? There's, I don't know.

From what I've gathered, Davos would be sick, though. From what I've gathered, right now, there is no plan B. Hockey, Milan, Ross, and Blue, holds 4,000. Oh, that's like. What'd you think the Italian league was, pal? Buddy, that's the Lumley Bayshore.

Oh, exactly. Hey, our line could play there. Honestly, like, London has an 11,000 seat bar for the night. Yeah, London, Ontario is not... I think 4,000's crazy. The Ultras love the A.C. Milan hockey team, for sure. They go to their chant and sing. The Ultras?

Oh, that's like a European term for hardcore fans. Oh. Never heard that before, right? Well, I miss the World League, I guess. European kick hockey guys. So, no worries. Tex. Some worries.

Like, but like, for me and for a Canadian hockey. hockey fans, we're going to get to watch our beloved hockey stars play in the hockey limit. I think so. We're just not sure where. Oh, okay. Okay, but I don't care about where it is. Okay. I just want to watch it. Maybe it'll be in Lumley Bayshore.

Cheswood Arena. UBS Arena getting their all-star game after all. Scoti could do it for sure. Yeah, yeah. Is there 4,000 seats in there? I don't know. Text. Text. Text. All right.

let's see here gentlemen james from ottawa i'm james thoroughly enjoy your show great way to get your text read was curious if the n hl has ever discussed the options of coaches refusing a penalty shot and taking a two minute penalty instead

it sounds weird but there are times where it might work in the team's best interest i.e. protecting a lead late in the game yeah i've heard the suggestion a variety of times and different ways you know what would they prefer to have like if you have some plug who gets hauled down on a penalty shot could you just take the the two minutes I don't think no you know like he doesn't make any sense to me I don't want to change it I think I think you lose the hold your breath moment of a penalty shot it is tremendous drama

it never happens and I'll say this and Elliot I know recently made the same thing it should happen call penalty shots if you call a few it would disincentivize people to hack people on breakaways you get cleaner breakaway they're way too chintzy giving them away for sure and it is an exciting

moment for the fans you call one every couple games you know the amount of times you're like well it wasn't technically it's like just call it if a guy's in alone gets hauled down let's do it how many penalties shots you guys have I've had one breakway my whole life one break away in the NHL I was a shootout shooter So I had opportunities in college and in a game It's much different than a shootout

Right I don't think I ever had a penalty shot Wow It's rare I've had one in junior Nice You score? No I did not

But you know it's hard I think 30% or less do score 30% right You know like it's just so much different That bats that you're striking out Right it's it's hard Like as you know is like a guy It's such a different mentality

Than having a breakaway Where you're like standing there and they're blowing the whistle and you have time to think about what you're due as opposed to like a breakaway in the in the flow of a game. I've never understood it. You hear some of the guys say, oh,

I just go down and like, you know, take what the goal that gives me or something. I always tried to make something happen. You know, like how to plan. You're, I could just tell from playing with you last week,

like you're way better on your edges than I were. I, to be, like, Pastornak, did you see Pastornak's breakaway goal against the Leafs? Sick. Like,

I can't move my feet to go east. west like that to pull a goalie off a post. So you're looking for a spot fire. I have to look and I have to I can go I like five hole I like low stick side but I can't move my feet like that

to draw goalie out. Right. And that lowers my odds. I'm telling you right now. If you had that plus that plus that you like your chances of of being a lot higher than 300 batting 300. Well right now Ziegress has the highest

penalty shot conversion rate or shootout rate he's like 14 to 23 or something crazy 50 that's a sick number it's disgusting against very talented goals the best goal is in the world two-thirds of the time he's scoring on a penalty I mean that's on pace for the best ever ever yeah for sure like was at the minimum cutoff he's he's the best ever right now whatever if you call it 20 shots or whatever uh shoot a percentage I'm just looking up the best shootout percentages of all time yeah it's like UC Yokin and friends Nielsen, T.J. Oshy. Patrick Kane is the most

shootout goals. Yeah, he's had a million attempts. 53 goals in 132 shots. Jeez, that's good. That's a guy that moves a stick like a ginsu knife. Taves is right. Taves is cutting yourself.

Sorry, Jack. But Taves is right behind him. 52 goals in 110. 47.3. Do you remember sending Taves three straight times? I remember it well. The best, okay,

sorry to slag on the NHL records, but they have like the best percentages for guys who have shot. One for one or whatever. I know. You need a minimum cut. Yeah, Petri Numerlin had eight goals on 10 shots, 80%.

That's really good. Anyways, we can move off as fast of this. Hi, you forgot to say Ottawa in your list of cities. The city's so fun that you forgot. Sam. I think I said Ottawa. In my, when I was like, Texas from cities like I said, Ottawa. But my hockey comment is this.

When are the oilers going to make a move for a goalie? We need someone with less than a four goals against average of more than an 850 save percentage. Fan base is getting anxious. Getting anxious. But you see Twitter, like every game, they're like, what do we have to do to get a goal? The fans are absolutely apoplectic. They're losing their mind. So.

Can you imagine if they somehow pulled off a move for like Soros? Like how that would just change... Binnington. It would just change everything. At least the energy. If they traded for Sorrows today, if they traded for Binnington, who's worse than the goalies they have this year,

I'd be like, they're winning the cup. That would be like my first reaction. Honestly, it would, because you're right. About the energy, like, we got to do something different. Just the energy alone, the excitement and the energy. And sometimes I just watch Connor McDavid, and it's like, do I have to play 20? 25 minutes every night.

Do I have to, me and Leon have to score three goals every night? Like I'm watching, I'm going, is there going to be a point where he's like, I'm burnt, I'm done. I mean,

I need a week off. I mean, four nations, face off. I'm scared he's going to get hurt. He plays, and it's, just give him something that he can go. Another way to win.

Another way to win. A regroup. Okay, now. not taking a pay raise makes a little bit more sense to me not just you spent it on sorrows yeah you spent it on sorrows that's at least the perception that he would have on it not you know with all due respect to a walman and and at home if my money went there i've already lost with them but you know i would like let's say you did do sorrows or someone else and i've heard or seen people say you don't know that these guys are going to be better

or Bennington's worse or whatever at least you can say you tried at least you can say everyone said this was a problem we tried to address it you know you got to try got to take your bat off the shoulders can't go down looking

cult's third strike no more baseball references please okay Sammy no more baseball Sammy you ruined me I'll never get over it never get over I actually had like a moment today where I saw like a clip and I got really Dad.

It still kills me. That is such a funny sports emotion. It still kills me. I can't. I'll never get over it. Hello, Jason from New Brunswick here. Nice. We're covering all off.

When is Chris Osgood going to get some Hall of Fame consideration? He has better numbers and more cups than half the goal in the hall. Love the show, boys. You don't want my take on that. You'd have to go and revisit everything, but he's the top 10, isn't he? In wins? For sure. So, I don't know.

Like, Kujo. Kujo's numbers are better than Chris Osgood's without the cups? I don't know. I just, you know, like in the NFL, they have guys they call systems quarterbacks. They're like, ah, you just, like, made it work in that team's systems or whatever. That was Chris Osgood to me. Like, he played behind unbelievable Red Wings teams. Chris Osgood's 15th all time with wins.

Oh, okay. 4-1. It's a pile. 401. I have a lot of respect for Chris Osgood and his career and he's a great man and all that stuff. I don't mean to, but I don't. I'm not a great kind of. a judge of who should be in and who should be out it's just not my specialty you can it seemed a lot

easier 15 years ago when it was like oh you played a thousand games oh you got a thousand points you're in but i had someone say the other day the hall of fame criteria should be if we have to debate it it's a no just somebody have to get in every single year there's still like okay like we've got 500 goal scores john tavares just got in everybody's convinced that he should John, John Tavares. Sorry, what it is in? No, we had discussions about John Tavares with his 500th goal, now being a guy that should be able to get in.

And by the numbers, you're like, he is certainly in the ballpark, but we've also had Keith Kachuk, I believe, at 500 goals, Pat Verbeek at 500 goals. Rod Brindamore, where is he? I look at Steve Larmer, and I'm like, a guy that plays the game the way he, He did for that many consecutive games, has no spot in the Hall of Fame. And what is that fine line?

I don't know. But I guess if you're looking at all these names, there's not Hall of Famers and not Hall of Famers. We've just picked a spot and said, here, this is where the line is for Hall of Fame. I think the baseball Hall of Fame does it by far the best. It's the hardest to get into. Some years, guys just don't get in or it's one person or it's one. Like, I just don't, I just feel like there has to be seven people every time. It feels like it devalues what it actually is.

I just, anyways, we're going to, I just wanted to get this one in quick. Andrew from Dawson City in Yukon. And I asked for the Yukon. Wow. The show guys watch every week, never miss it. Kippermborn. Love you guys. Kinnock's question is, do the Hues, do they move on from Hughes?

The Canucks are bad and it's sad. That's what he says. Yeah. You can't, I don't understand what move on from him means. Well, here's what, everyone knows he's only, he's the only one that's going to decide if he moves on. Vancouver will not move on off of him. They wouldn't trade him? They will only on his instructions to trade him.

But if they went and asked him, hey, do you want to leave? What do you think he'd say? I've got a contractor, you know. I mean, I don't think he'd go to him and say, go to Vancouver and say, I'm ready to move now. I don't think it's his play, put it that way. It's just where they're at as a franchise and what we know he wants and whatever, it's really hard to see a world

where he's like, yeah, I'll lose in Vancouver, you know, if they're going to... This is why it's got a whole new dynamic now. And I don't want for Vancouver fans, the same thing to happen that the Leaf fans went through with martyr. Well, and that's, you know, there was like a window where it's like, boy, you could have got something for him and salvage something.

And that's kind of where you're getting into for Canucks fans where it's like... The window was when after Kyle Dubis got fired and Bradge Living came in here and he had a week to make the move before his full-known move kicked in. Right. That had been a hell of a thing. Holy smokes, that would have been quite a...

He didn't know if his key cards work yet. So, you know, do they want to make sure they don't get left in the dark with nothing? All right, boys, that's it. Okay. 5.53 almost at a time. So I got no more tax for you. All right.

Well, let's look ahead of the weekend. Toronto plays the Chicago Blackhawks on Saturday night. Four straight losses, we'll call it. Well, we just heard from Darren Pange. If you didn't catch him, you can catch them on a download on any platform. And he said they're fast and quick. And a team that is unfamiliar to people that have watched the last few years of the Chicago Blackhawks. Great.

And a new Connor Bedard looking to get some positive traction for Canada while playing Toronto. Man, can he shoot the puck? Two drag releases. Two drag. Can he shoot the puck? Yeah, he shoot. Love it. Our thanks to Darren Pange, as we just mentioned,

and Doug McLean on this edition of Off the Rails Friday. Sure glad you were bored all week. Sure glad you're with us. You get a chance. Give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Go on sound. Go on sound, Sammy.

Playing in Monday tonight. Big game. Midwest Division battle. It's in London. It starts in an hour. But no helicopter? No, Edward Rogers helicopter. I'm not you, Kipper. I don't do that. Have a great weekend, everybody.