Real Kyper & Bourne - Disappointment Déjà Vu

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee get right into last night's disappointing performance from the Leafs' in Game 1 against Tampa, Toronto playing nervous, Sheldon Keefe's matchup tinkering, the hit to Samsonov's confidence, the Wes McCauley conspiracy, Bunting's dirty hit and the difference in the two teams' powerplays. They are joined by the Daily Faceoff's Mike McKenna (45:19) who assesses Samsonov's game, the nerves, if he's possibly playing hurt, how short his leash will be in Game 2 and his lack of rebound control. Later, Hall of Famer Mark Messier discusses playoff pressure from a player's point of view, how the Leafs' regain their confidence and Tampa's invaluable mental advantage, even potentially without Hedman and Černák (1:05:53). The guys close with a discussion about Matthew Knies likely joining the team for Game 2, what to expect out of him and how Leafs' players block out the noise and negativity.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Well, that was rather interesting. Opening game for the Toronto Maple Leafs versus the Tampa Bay Lightning. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Frank the Tank, Derek Brandale, and Sammy McKee along for the ride in the next two hours. And it should be a ride. To try to put words into what we witnessed in that opening game. For the record, the seven goals allowed by Toronto

is tied for the third most in club history. And the most in the last 30 years. Good. Cool. Awesome. Not good. Not great. What are we doing?

How is this the first show after the playoffs begin? I, for one, would have loved to talk about Chris Bassett's performance last night. Oh, seven strong against the defending World Series champions. I'm officially announcing my move from Real Kipper and Born to Blue Jays talk. I'm now Sammy Blue Jays. OJs go. Okay, Blue Jays, let's play ball. Oh, boy.

Usually this time of year for the Toronto Maple Leafs, the seed of doubt is planted much later in the series it's not supposed to be germinating after game one after game one yes no and you know tell me jb where do we start it's a great question where do you want to go first because Because we'll let Sammy kind of collect himself. You know, as much as I do think the Leafs are okay, I don't think we can start with conclusions. We need to go through this hockey game. Like, I think we need to start with picking through how it began.

I wrote an article today on the Leafs' nerves, the nervousness that I saw in the game, the way they got away from what has made them successful and to me just didn't seem like themselves for 10 minutes you you had written about the stakes and we had talked about the stakes and there was a lot on the line there is a lot of the line in this series and it was reflected in their play i thought okay let's right let's just jump into a kipper's clipper you you touched on it nervousness let's hear what sheldon keith had to say about uh that after game one

okay we have so it's just about him talking about being nervous um hold on a second here yep all good. Poor Derek. He's nervous. He's feeling it right now. This is a real Kippenborn playoff show. Once when I was the video coach and I couldn't get a playing, the player saw me sweating. I mean, I certainly sensed it in the game, you know,

that we were on our heels a bit early on there. It looked like Sammy Annette was, you Annette was fighting the puck early on, and he's been in such a groove that that, to me, was maybe a sign of that. But I don't think nerves have anything to do with why we don't defend our net and allow a guy to walk out from below the goal line. Those are all things we're as good as anybody in the NHL in defending that area of the ice. And it didn't happen tonight, so that's disappointing.

But I don't know if it would be too easy to chalk it up as nerves at this point. It was a topic of discussion. I know the guys in their pregame show on Hockey Night in Canada talked about the nerves. Nobody really anticipated that that would ever be a factor as early as game one you want again you want to talk about later on in the series yeah perhaps but was it real at the time you would expect to see nerves right at the start of puck drop for before a big game coming out of

the gates i mean i think it was very real you know i don't you think that's when you'd see it for sure yeah you know and to me it was just like a lack of poise the leafs are so good at making little plays underneath it regrouping the dehinging and i thought every chance they got they tried to force the puck up the ice tampa had guys above and they iced the puck and iced the puck over and over the first few seconds of opening face off and again i'm not going to make a big deal out of sitting matthews and marner to start the game you got ryan o'reilly uh consmith winner uh certainly a guy that you want to lead the charge in terms of been there, done that, all help set the tone early. That's okay for me.

Okay. But the sequence off of that opening faceoff that led to a Mark Giordano not moving his feet, to now go into a stretch pass within like 20 seconds of the opening faceoff to go into an icing and in that short sequence of icing the puck came the next few shifts where i watched sheldon keith play matchup and listening to craig simpson talk about oh there's the gamesmanship's already starting with the matchups yeah so he doesn he doesn't start Matthews and Marner. He follows them up on the second shift.

But once Cooper reacts to an offensive zone face-off, he pulls them off the ice. And he puts David Kemp out there. Yeah. First question I ask is, Sheldon, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah, you know know there was that series against montreal where they played the matthews line they someone asked him about philip to know

are you gonna try to get him away from to know when he's like we're not getting matthews away from to know like we're not afraid of that matchup you're probably right there's probably an element of being like you can't be afraid to use the matthews line he's doing what he always does fellas he's overthinking he's tinkering. Yes. He's trying to get those soft matchups. You want to talk about nerves? Sheldon, you started with bad nerves. Yeah.

You started it. Like, those are your horses. What a better message at home. Let your horses run. To pull Matthews and Marner off in 10 seconds was absolutely... You've gone all week telling us they're great defensive players. What are you worried about? That you need to put Camp and Aston Reese out in a defensive zone face-off so Aston Reese can cough up the pizza to Corey Perry.

How bad was that play? And little Bobby, barely in his seat, is down 1-0. Well, and that was, so, yeah, like, I get the idea that he's like, all right, I'll do camp here, and then we'll get him, Matthew's away from Sorelli, but you're right. It's overthinking it, and so they win the draw, Geo gets another puck, forces another one up the boards. They get back in their own end.

Aston Reese, same thing. Like, here, you take it. Ah, ah, you know, like, someone take some strides of the thing show a little poise and then obviously they defend it after that i will say to his point they are statistically like the second best team in the nhl at defending the net front high danger chances all that they're very good there they were terrible there i don't want this to be like a crap on mark giordano show but that's as bad as he's played as a Maple Leaf. The first 10 minutes of that game, he might have had 10 bad moments.

We could pick any of them. No, I know. Pick anyone. Pick anyone. They collectively stunk. And now we watch a guy like Corey Perry again own the Leafs. Again. First shift. Seven shot attempts,

four shots, three goals. A killer. Three points. A Leaf killer last night. Yeah. Barely in the hockey game. 14 minutes. How about Justin Hall letting him red carpet behind the net?

Maybe get a piece of him. Well, my thought was like, is he trying to kill them and Perry cuts inside, but not even, so I don't know. I mean, terrible start there. And this is another way that nerves showed itself to me was,

you know, being afraid that Tampa is going to blow by you. Why they got these fast guys, you know, the gaps were so bad that they just let Tampa walk into the zone. And to me, I'm talking about the firsta walk into the zone and to me i'm talking about the first 10 minutes because the game goes to hell after that in a different way right like they kind of pull it together they give up a late one they come back with the power plays then it's

a penalty kill affair the third period doesn't even matter there's 10 minutes to talk about in that hockey game for me unless you want to talk special teams we got uh mike mckenna's gonna come up uh in about 40 minutes he's great at breaking down the goaltending if we're gonna follow up uh our opening uh conversation on nerves where are we with samsonov's nerves last night yeah i mean is that the worst he's played as a leaf too maybe there was a lot of worst games the leaf last night it felt like felt like the whole i just i can't imagine you know that after all the preparation they've probably done and all the talk that they've had and you know you talk about how much they prep and all the different people that they have behind the scenes. And to have that building sound like that at puck drop and come out and perform like that,

it's so, as a fan, it's incredibly hard pill to swallow. I know it's one game, but to me it just says so much about them. It just says so much. I totally put nervousness into the equation for Samsonov last night. Absolutely. No question. He was fighting it from the second the puck dropped. The one thing

when we've watched him over the course of the year, when there have been issues with him, too busy, and rolling off of posts, and not being square to the shooter. If you look at those first three goals, he got too aggressive on the wraparound. And if you watch him finish by the time the puck goes in the net,

he's at an angle. He's not square. You could do that on non-goals. You could do that on shots that didn't get through to the net. And the way he's pushing and finishing out of his crease at times. And then he's got to push back. It's like the net is the same size as it was last game, fella. That has to be nerves.

That just has to be too much. As a goalie, you can't go take the game. You have to just let it come to you. You know, the way the greats will sit deeper in their crease in those moments. We got to factor in, too, like the experience that he has now being in this market and knowing that you are the number one goalie. This isn't him still being questioned on where his place is in the NHL. This is him after a full season taking the mantle of you are the guy. There's a big difference between going into the crease as a bona fide number one guy or a situation where you're either the backup or no one's expecting too much from you. And that lends to success when you think of a guy like Matt Murray winning cups early in Pittsburgh or Binnington in St. Louis.

When you have only upside and the downside is what? I lose and anybody expected anything more or less? Right. what i i lose and uh anybody expected anything more or less right he has to challenge that for the first time of of of the weight of the world on your shoulders as a number one goalie i i think that played in a huge factor yeah i will say though if if we base it on what we've seen all season long the one thing that samson has been able to do this year sammy is rebound well off of bad losses there aren't long stretches where he's he's played poorly um over a lengthy period of time i think off losses his record is very good i got the stats here samsonov this season after allowing

five plus goals in a previous game five oh and one with a 184 goals against and a 9-30 save percentage so i've got 12-1-2 for the season yeah you know i don't want to it's real good i mean he's been he's been great in those moments and so this kind of goes to you know we're going to get deeper in on all of it but they're in an okay spot here you know with the way that game played out with Victor Hedman leaving with an injury, Eric Turnack injury, Ace Amant injury, you know, they're down some important people. Listen, this is far from over. Oh, 100%.

Like Samsonov, I feel like that's almost a good thing. Just get that stinker out of the way. The whole team has played better when they've been embarrassing the night before. That has been a theme this season, and I've commented on that several times in this show. They're in a good spot. Not a good spot, but they're fine.

But yeah, boy, they let it get away from them. They got it back, and then they let it get away from them again in the same game. Just to allude to you talking about the injuries, Chernak is out for sure for game two. Isimont or Aceymont is out game two. And Hedman and Jeannot are both game time decisions apparently. Okay.

Just a quick note in the second hour. Yesterday we had Leaf legend Wendell Clark on, which was fantastic. Today Hall of Famer Mark Messier in the second hour. So you're not going to want to miss that uh as well do we want to touch on samson of on nerves is this actually sammy talking about it actually yeah let's let's throw it in because uh he's always been uh fun to listen to after a game like this playoff uh you don't feel like nerve a lot nerves a lot uh but yeah i feel like it's hard to see how fans after a second period left to the game, yeah.

Yeah, it's just hard to see. But I will be better. I play like a s*** today. There you go. All right. He's the first guy to know it. I actually liked that tone from him. Yeah.

Sucked out. It's garbage. See you tomorrow. It didn't seem as, as like i remember early in the year like remember after that game in in washington yeah when he was when that's i think that's when uh people aka me called him the russian jack campbell yeah and yeah and he was really down on himself there he just seems like yeah well i'll play better next game yeah which i like that tone that confidence but for sure yeah i was gonna. So after every game, you guys do the Leaf talk.

Yesterday, I went on Sportsnet Central with Ken and Ivanka. Oh, nice. They asked me about Samsonov game two. I said, without a doubt. No brainer. No brainer, without a doubt. No questions asked. So where was Sheldon Keefe last night when he was asked about samson off playing game two sammy

do we have that clip sheldon uh joseph wool coming in for the third period i know it was a big margin in the game but is there any consideration to bringing him in to start game two or too early to know it's too early to know i found that really strange like where's the doubt well it's a great question and an important one uh he should have none you and i both were like obviously he's the guy my only thought is this is a guy that they said was battling something down the stretch right he's not a hundred percent you guys tweak here and there if he's a little hurt and they're like let's give him another period off and see if he's okay by next game like maybe he's not right i mean it could be injury. This was Sheldon Keefe today. What, 12, 14 hours later?

Right. Let's have a listen now. Well, Sammy's going in that for sure. And he's another guy that to me has bounced back really well. And, you know, he wanted to get on the ice today. You know, we were going to sort of cater the practice to what he wanted as he normally would do coming off of a start uh but he wanted to be in there and to me he was sending a message to the team about how focused he is and i thought he had an excellent practice today as short as it was

and to me he looks ready to get back at it a much different tune yeah i wonder if he was having a pouty moment last night sheldon where he's like someone let him down he's like i don't know it's like i do with my kids sometimes like i don't know maybe we won't go to disneyland you know what my first thought is what i don't want to say anything until i talk to kyle and brendan yeah and i think that's fine i have a problem with that no i have a problem with that okay yeah you're the head coach yeah you know doesn't matter what brendan thinks or kyle thinks you're the coach sure and say it last night after the game that's my guy yeah i just you risk then if you know i think all coaches and gms would work together in terms of lineup construction roster

construction yada yada i think if you do that and people disagree and then it's awkward i don't know it just feels like a safer way to go yeah i can't believe he said that last night yeah like are you nuts one bad game for your guy that carried you all year and you're gonna put in the ahl guy that's had six good starts yeah like there there seems like there would have been no chance but he should have scoffed yeah at that question of course sammy's the starter yeah done fair enough yeah and listen if if there were any issues like i'm you're not the game's over you're not thrown on the podium 30 seconds later. Right. There's times to talk and quickly, you know, there's a PR department. If there were any issues from Kyle or Brendan about Samsonov,

there's plenty of time to have that group discussion that you're talking about before you go to the podium. That should have been straightened out. So what do you think? Do you think he was just being pissy? Yes. No, I think he just needed reassurance from Kyle or Brendan. That's what I think.

Yeah. And I have no proof of that. I'm just telling you my opinion. Yes. Hey, it's what we do. And very, very likely right, I would say. Yeah. Just my gut instinct about being in these situations before

right um listen i mean we can go in different directions but as long as we're on the sheldon keith thing um lots of talk out there especially in the internet that somehow some someway, Sammy, there is a conflict of interest between Wes McCauley and Sheldon Keefe. People want us to have this conversation. Listen, I have been inundated over the last 24 hours with more DMs and texts and Instagram, Facebook, anywhere you can send me a message. The two years of doing this show together,

this is by far the number one thing I've got messages on about Wes McCauley and Sheldon. There are a lot of Leaf fans that think Wes has it out for the Leafs because of this link. Wes McCauley is married to David Frost's sister.

His brother-in-law, correct. He is the brother-in-law. Sheldon Keefe, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, testified against David Frost in 2008. There was multiple counts on him for sexual exploitation. And if you want any more detail on any of that, please go search it yourself after that. Everything I hear is that Wes McCauley has no beef whatsoever.

No issues off the ice on Sheldon Keefe. Zero. Off the ice On Sheldon Keefe Zero To link this As some sort of conspiracy theory Against the Leafs I think is absolutely Asinine To give this air is really Just to give this any oxygen

Is just to satisfy The massive amount of Leaf fans Who think it's a reason that they lost By four goals last night Let me just play the other amount of Leaf fans who think it's a reason that they lost by four goals last night okay let me just play the other side of this fellas I don't think that's the reason they lost clearly okay like that I would have to be a pretty big dumbo to sit behind the glass but don't you think this is a pretty easily easily avoidable PR standpoint thing that you could just not have them on the games just because your spidey senses suggest that there might but this is horrific pr for the league

it's horrible based on what sammy every single one of your fans in your biggest market being bent out of shape because you think you're eight and no in the playoffs that's enough for you to say hey um i'm not superstitious but let's not take any chances i want to be clear i don't think this matters at all but i'm playing this side of it from the leaf fan perspective that i just i think it's a pretty avoidable thing for them but there's a lot of good there's a lot of good you just don't avoid things just based we're talking about perception of social media but it's not yeah all right listen i don't like i said playing devil's advocate don't really care considered one of the top officials the nhl has and like you're gonna now label him as as what

by pulling him out of this uh i can't ref the leafs anymore right and this is one of those things where you would have to have some sort of evidence of calls like i don't know who called what penalties last night or which one you hate so much that you think you could point you could point the eagle eye on that goal there that maybe you could point to that one but that's it and and not to take Wes's side of last night, some real horseshit calls last night, okay? They were bad. Yeah.

The cross-check, the shove on Luke Shen, horrible. Horrible. Yeah. Horrible. The refs did not give the Leafs a favorable whistle last night. That's not the point here. The slash on David Kampf, which was not Wes McCauley that made the call, by the way, fellas.

Worth a note there. You know what, though? I think it was Corey Perry that went in. The slashing motion knocked the puck off his stick. It doesn't look like a slash as we... It's a soft call, but there's a slash there. It's a soft call, but there's a slash there. And I'll tell you another one, too.

The call on Chernak with Bunting after the whistle, and Bunting accidentally goes by and then pulls up Bunting and then goes down and then all up bunting and then goes down. And then that, that all that crap that bunting does with the,

the slow look and then the pop up, like he's a, you know, coming out of a gopher hole looking around. That was a, that was a terrible call to terrible. And the Leafs ended up scoring to get back in the hockey game there. So, listen, bad calls are bad calls.

I thought that Bunting went into that expecting to dive. Yeah. And then got absolutely rocked. He's like, oh, my God. That actually hurt as opposed to my usual. So, listen, I want to be clear. I think it is a massive stretch to think that the nhl has a conspiracy theory against the biggest team in the league probably their most important team in the

league i think it's a pretty big stretch yeah but you can can you not see from some leaf fans fans perspective how the optics are somewhat not perfect let me say this so there's that graphic from scouting the refs that's like the leafs are oh and eight in playoff games with macaulay so four of those at least are when babcock's here yes they're all they're all in four they're all in four with sheldon keep and during the regular season they were uh undefeated they were five oh and one so and you could also draw to that. The Leafs win a lot in the regular season and they lose a lot in the playoffs. Those ones I'm looking at, they scored one goal a lot of time. Maybe Wes could tap a couple

in for them in a big game. He may help. Wes had a bad night. Okay? And that's it. Don't go anywhere outside of that. But we had to talk about it, boys. It's a hugely hot-button topic. Consider it talked about. And I would say it'd be better if he weren't involved with Leafs game because of your point, PR and optics now doesn't look great.

But if it happens again, I mean, he's done nothing to be kicked off the games or anything. I'll tell you something right now. He is reffing game seven for sure. That is a lock. Let's just stick to the facts here. That's all. Fair.

Agreed. Okay, Sammy. All good. All right. That's all. Agreed. Okay, Sammy. All good. All right. We mentioned it. Bunting. Thoughts, please. Let's start with you, JB.

What a dummy. What a stupid play. I thought it was cheap. I thought it was a headshot. He should get suspended. I thought it was brutal. Like, just a stupid play when they didn't need it. I was infuriated by it if if the slash from camp without was sort

of the turning point of the game what uh what bunting did ended the game for the leafs that it's just insanely selfish play and like we can listen to what keith had to say on it if you want before we get more into it but i want kip steak first yeah go ahead agree okay that's good yeah like i where do you go after that right i don't know like it's really tough i don't even hear leaf fans being like well he kind of tried to like he just creamed a guy that wasn't there's no play there there's no need for the context so Sheldon Keefe initially tried to stick up for him. Why don't we listen to Sheldon on that and then we can finish it up.

In terms of the call, I don't have a lot of thoughts on that. Bunce, to me, is trying to win the line to set himself up to win a race for the puck. Got away on him. A guy wasn't expecting it. I'm sure Bunce is expecting a battle in that situation

and didn't get one. The back half of the season has been a big struggle for Michael Bunting finding his place. For sure. Finding his identity in the league here. And we know he's got the ability to score we know that he's got the ability to move up and down the lineup like smart guy i don't know i don't know what sheldon and his coaching staff have done in terms of getting him to that moment and what's being said and and who's

who's guiding him all i saw was a guy that is is is kind of in between and lost between when to push when to pull when to be engaged when to back off when he's just he's got about a million things in his mind. I don't know if anything's said to him between the time that he hit Chernak or the start of the game, but you got to stay on those guys. I run and I see a lot of parallels between bunting now and 2019 Kadri. Yeah. Where you're just, you've got a lot of emotion going on

and you don't know necessarily what the mission is. And then you get a flood of emotions. And clearly there was something going on between Chernak and Bundy. Well, that's important here too, right? There's a motive. Right. The same guy who just greased him before okay yeah but who's watching that and who's in his ear and saying hey calm down we're going the right way here don't do anything stupid

keep your powder dry this has got a long series there's gonna be times and it ain't the next shift so get your lick in well well we can sit here and talk about how dumb bunting is, I think there's more responsibility than just looking at him. That's interesting. They have a fairly... I don't know if I... Keith's done so much this year to kind of rein him in, in terms of talking about him walking the line,

bumping him down, playing him less, talking about him playing. How'd it work out last night? That's the thing. That's where it's on the player. It's on the player, Kipper. Like, he's done so much with him this year trying to coach that out of him. And we even saw it in some of these games

where he was even more subdued. Whatever you're doing, it ain't working. Then you can't play him. He's a liability. It's crazy. It's crazy what a swing it's been with him. Like, I am curious. Like, let's say he gets a game,

which is probably most likely never suspended, playoff hockey, probably. A game? You think more? Well, more? Two? It's bad. It's bad.

It's really bad. It's bad. Like, just, I didn't't did you see any body at all or did you just see a head clip you're so right now there's motive headshot uh injury it's major crosses all the boxes inner interference yeah god he didn't even have the puck no he's not playing for a while two or three i'm well yeah but just like if they start rolling you know like michael bunting is a more useful guy than zach aston reese but maybe bunting doesn't get back in if they get rolling think about it if they have to be rolling for him yeah

he won't play last game is a leaf or they're they're all not playing yeah right so matthew nize today practicing with ryan o'reilly and i believe achari if i'm not mistaken sammy the third line is nize o'reilly achari love that second line um we'll go down from the top yarn croc back in the top line with Matthews and Marner Kerfoot Flex Seal with Tavares and Helander in the top six the return of Flex Seal to the top six Nize, O'Reilly, Achari

Aston Reese, Kampf, Lafferty as your fourth line like Ryan O'Reilly with Nize safety blanket great security blanket absolutely guy to talk to him on the bench with nize yeah a little safety blanket great security blanket yeah yeah absolutely yeah guy to talk to him on the bench work his way through things very vocal player i didn't like

a lot of guys last night but i did like o'reilly o'reilly was excellent do you hear his comments after the game i know most of it was kind of cliche but it's not what he says for me as much as how he says it with conviction and with it's like when muzzin spoke truth and like the guy's been there he's done it before he's got matters to them did you see he's not he's not like a fourth line he knows what the secret the secret sauce to success is and it's like yeah yeah that's the guy that's the guy you guys should go talk to today 100 that's the guy that you need to follow and simmer on the bed uh simmer pointed out at the end after was it who's it kucherov scored at the end of the first period to make it three nothing they flashed over to o'reilly and he was like still had like all right

boys we're all right we're all right like still like trying to be that like positive voice. And then goes out and scores the next one. Which is, yeah, nice to see him get a power play goal. I will say that third line. So, you know, we can weigh in on how you think the lines that Keith put together worked. But that third line of Kerfoot, Achari, Yarncroft was god awful. Awful. I think they had like 3% expected goals.

Kerfoot using a whiffle stick half the time out there. Don't know, Yarncroft's falling all over the place. I thought that line stunk. You can't play that group together. No good. So, three lines here now, which I like. Actually, like four lines. I like their lineup now.

All right. And so, but like, I look at this lineup and i go ah boy i don't don't miss 58 no yeah yeah i mean he'll probably get in once there's an injury or something as the series goes on but yeah if they're healthy it's tough to see him have we played any cooper yet no wow 33 minutes into our show we're gonna know john cooper yet boys i was sitting there this morning on my couch having a coffee cutting this tape from john cooper and legitimately seething just smarming you to death i can't which one bothered you the most that's the one i want to lead with okay which. Which one?

I know which one it is. Second down, right? Second down, it says the Leafs might win this series, is how I labeled it. Ooh, okay. Let's go. The Leafs might win this series. They might. There's so much

runway left in this. But what I've learned over the years, Aisha the hell wouldn't bet against our guys. She's not going to say we're going to win. But I don't know. I got their back. I got their back. This guy is so far in my goddamn kitchen, boys.

You're out of it. He's in there. He's slamming my cup kitchen, boys. You're out of eggs. He's in there. Sandwich. He's slamming my cupboards, boys. He's pouring your milk right now. He opened up the fridge. He helped himself to a Bud Light. He's got his feet up.

Oh, my God. This guy. I know. God. Yeah. Please don't let them beat the Leafs again. Please. Listen.

Please win. You go in game two. You win that one. You're 1-1 going back to Tampa Bay. Come on. Yeah. You know, I don't think there's ever been more pressure in the history of hockey than on a game two in the first and they and this team always perform this team always performs

so well under pressure so no worries boys in a great place you know i am curious to see what kind of lineup tampa has like there was 10 minutes of play in the second period a five of it where it's five on five and they have no headman and i mean the least controlled the play for that stretch there was a time where it felt like they were getting the game back right by the way when they're getting the game back they they make it three two and mccabe blows apart asamont oh my god what a hit i, maybe the best hit of the Leafs season. Unbelievable moment. The building's rocking. It feels like they have control of the game.

The Leafs, the league looked at that one too, eh? Did they? For a headshot, but. No headshot. No headshot. It's just because his elbow came up, but his elbow never made contact. Right. Way too much body.

Yeah. So what kills me, though, and you guys know, I've talked about this before we came on here, but likeul tries to fight mccabe and mccabe is just chatting with him just john yeah i know yeah no whatever there's a hockey match going on see you know what i thought i thought paul did a fantastic job yeah try to fight him there no no no no not try to fight him. Just. Keeping him there. Whatever. Yeah. Just the message. And listen, if McCabe wanted to fight, I think Paul was absolutely game to do it. But just the optics of, hey, I'm here and focus on me while my teammates go down on a two-on-one. Well, that's it. I liked that McCabe didn't fight.

I was like, yeah, clean hit, whatever. But he has to keep playing hockey. So it ends up being a two-on-one the other way because he's talking to Paul and then Camp reaches in with a slash, bad call, whatever. 3-2, they're shorthanded. Now it's 4-2.

But if you're McCabe, you got two decisions there, pal. Fight or go play. Fight them or get your ass back. Yeah. But don't just stand there no the game didn't stop yeah the game stops you get the mittens off for sure right away you get the mittens off i was gonna say jake paul jake paul would probably beat up jake mccabe i don't

know be a good one anyways you get the you get the mittens off the game stops there's no penalty right or you escape back but i will quibble a little bit with you guys in terms of both of you said that he wasn't impeding him he was standing in his way like if he tries to go for a skate i bet she grabs onto him well then he should try to go for a skate and then that's what you want to do then make him make that bad decision for sure but you're right don't just stand there and and do nothing god they they had the game they had the game like the whole mojo that building going back it was out it was rocking in there and then that little ticky tack slash and then the pk let him down boys like you know no doubt tj brody wasn't great justin hall wasn't

great i didn't think marner or riley were very good on that play on the fourth goal they're both net front it's just boys can we just talk about tampa bay's power play first jesus and how dangerous it looks compared to the leafs the leafs had the what where they finish on the power play in the league two for four oh second second in the league yeah okay and it's night and day when you watch both power plays it's not even close to me it's kucherov that's the x factor for them like every time he touches it it's just like he can do anything he can cut it in he can shoot it he can you know like he just makes all the plays fake it it's let's go to cooper on his team's power play yeah what was it uh you mean for both teams was it like combined six for 12 and there's six in a row or something like that um

there's really really good players on both teams there's uh our our power play has been exceptional over the years so has Toronto's and to be honest they're hard to defend and I'm sure they're looking at us going okay how we're going to stop them and we're surely looking like okay how we're going to stop them it's it's uh there's some gifted players out there and so do I suspect that the power players are going to roll the way they've been rolling I don't um but I'm going to be honest like these that the power players are going to roll the way they've been rolling? I don't. But I'm going to be honest. These are good players out there.

They're hard to stop. Good players out there. They're hard to stop. They are. But, like, they went 0 for 8 in Tampa Bay a week ago. They just gave them a preview of their PK and then. So, I agree with you, first of all. Like, Kucherov and, and like a chameleon he could hide he could change colors he can go from he hit that one timer like being a shooter to being a passer to they they you know what they do way better than

toronto what's up is? There's no tells. They don't tip their hand. He can shoot in a split second, or he can make an unbelievable pass. And the Leafs, you watch it, Matthews will shoot from anywhere. He'll take shots, and sometimes he'll shoot from 40 feet out, but no one really, the closest to anyone disguising anything is is mitch marner nobody else has that ability on the leaf power play yeah i mean that's true

and he's the guy who has you know two power play goals in his last 150 games or something so like he's one dimensional in a different way they don't they don't have guys who do both the way that kucherov does both and point does both and you know headman can do both or sergachev they have a lot of guys you kind of know their thing and that makes it a challenge obviously their pp was good last night they got a couple but the two that went in on the leafs by the way the fifth goal where cory perry you know the the challenge which we haven't even got to yet um i hated the challenge the the broadcast liked it and then the sixth one The backhand from point Through the five hole

Like We can spend some more time In the After we talk to Matt There's lots more stuff To talk about with Leafs Just real quick Your challenge thoughts

Didn't mind it As much as You I get the idea Of that side of it Like desperation If it's 5-2 We're screwed

Listen you got some House cleaning for us Yes sir Time for some playoff picks Presented by Bet365 Visit the app For the latest odds And so I was looking At some stuff today five two okay listen you got some house cleaning for us sir time for some playoff picks presented by bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds and so i was looking at some stuff today and you can bet on when the series will the series will end for uh different ones and i was looking at bruins panthers tonight because they're getting back underway tonight and if you think it's going to

be a sweep which i kind of feel like it is even though Bergeron's not back in there, I don't think that, I mean, do you feel like Panthers are going to get one, Kip? Yeah, I do. Okay, so then maybe this is one for you. What about you, Barney? You know what? I just feel like Florida threw their best game at them

in game one, and Boston was okay, because they won by two. So the series in four. So it's three to one for the series in four still. And the best odds is five games. Sam Bennett's coming back. I like him a lot this time of year. And Lyon wasn't that far off from making it a pick-em game in overtime.

He let one bad goal in, and that was the difference. And maybe he'll let another one in. a pick'em game in overtime. He let one bad goal in, and that was the difference. Yeah. And maybe he'll let another one in, but they were in it. Although they didn't come out and put that out of regulation. Oh, yeah, they carried a lot of the play. They were in it. I got to think out of four tries, they're going to squeak one out. There's a record.

The Panthersthers when they have both barkov and bennett in they they played at like 130 point pace again this year but they just didn't have their two centers in so if you're someone who you know looking at a long shot or whatever florida not a bad bet when they have both those centers in and other one for you uh quick leaf one you can bet uh from the series from behind so if you believed in the leafs to win i want it they're plus 110 now and they were minus 175 going into the series so they're a little bit more value on the least now if you have any belief in them which i don't know how you could a couple ones i have for you i will say i think bet 365 also has uh you can actually bet the

correct score of the series like i could see the Leafs winning in six, you know, and I'm sure you're starting to get some value at that point once it's, you know, got to win for the next five. Too soon for you. Leafs are in a good spot with that Tampa D hurt. Just focus on winning tomorrow. Yeah. And you're coming back for game five, two, two.

Think so? Yeah. They're not going to go and sweep Tampa for two, but they can split like they, Tampa hoped to split here. Well, there it is. Then they get game five at home. It's 3-2 Leafs and yada, yada.

The exact recipe for me is last year just flipped and you have to come back. You have to go into Tampa and win that game six before it comes back here. Had it no tea last year. That's what I mean. All right, boys. That was playoff picks presented by bet three, six, five.

Visit the app for the latest odds. Okay. We're going to take a quick break here. As promised, Mike McKenna, daily face off hockey analyst does a terrific job. He's going to set us straight on how panicked Leaf Nation should be about their goaltending and Samsonov's ability to recover. We mentioned the record. We'll get his thoughts.

Vasilevsky thoughts. You know, oh, by the way, he gave up three. He did. Yeah, yeah. He gave up three. Three's a lot this time of year for him. If you can get three every game, you got a good shot. And then, of course, in the second hour, Mark Messi, Hall of Famer, ESPN Hockey Analyst,

will get his thoughts about the mental part of the game, whether or not the Leafs can brush this thing off as quickly as Sheldon gave us the impression that they could today. All right, more real Kipper and Bourne after the break. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The J.D. Bunkins Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. It's going to be fun for our next guest just to sit back and watch all the goalies. Who's handling the pressure? Who isn't? Who looks like they're sitting back in a rocking chair? And who isn't? Let's welcome in Mike McKenna. Mike, how's your start to this year's playoffs

well I think it depends who you're a fan of and I'm not a fan of any team so for me it's been plenty entertaining and the best part of today is I got ribs on the grill outside man so I've been smoking for three hours after I wrote an article this morning so life's good guys thanks for having me today. And whatever your smoke looks like pales in comparison to what came out of Sammy's ears last night. Good boy.

So, you know, the hot button topic even on Hockey Night in Canada's pregame show, right into our show is the nerves. And how real is it nerves and how real is it and how much did it affect samsonov last night let's get your thoughts i think it was real because to me there's parts of samsonov's game that i've just frankly never liked okay and there's a of words to personify that. I would say impatient, sloppy, slidey.

Slidey is probably not even a word in the dictionary, but I think it really fits for him. And you know what? When the Leafs play well in front of him, when he's calm, when he's not feeling pressure, he can control those elements pretty well. But last night, he looked like he was so amped up that he couldn't contain himself. And that's what led to the problems, if you ask me.

He was a rebound machine. He was sliding everywhere. He just was not in control of his game. It looked like he was trying too hard. So for me, it was kind of tough to watch because I just wanted to give the guy a hug and say, hey, dude, just chill, man. You've had a great year. Let the play come to you.

You're going to be okay. But guys, the underlying factor is I think this guy's playing hurt, and I don't know how much he's compensating for it with what he's doing out there either. Well, we've seen it, right, JB? We've seen video evidence that at times he's slow to get up. Did you see enough last night? I didn't notice it that much.

Well, I would encourage everybody to go to my Twitter feed, at MikeMcKenna56. Thank you, everybody, for that shameless plug. I actually posted a video of it. About 12 minutes into the second period, Samsonov makes a save on a shot that's pretty routine from the high slot. And he extends his right leg, and he instantly puts his blocker down and towards his body,

and his reaction screams lower body injury. And I, and I put this tweet out and then I've had just a, an never ending onslaught of goalies who have liked it and commented saying, yep, exactly. I know what that is because I've played through and listen, I'm not a doctor. I can't diagnose what exactly is going on here if there is anything, but this is what it looks like to me. And what my experience is when I've felt like that before, where it feels like my legs being stabbed and I instantly have to bring it back to my body to get to stop hurting. That's when my groin was injured. I played through a pulled groin and two consecutive Calder cup finals in the American hockey league. People in Toronto remember that against the Marlies when I was with Texas, nobody knew I had a pulled groin

unless you could really watch me every day and know what it looked like. So I don't know if that's what it is. I think it's definitely something lower body that's bothering him. I don't see it on every shot, but that one instance that I clip that I have up on the Twitter feed to me just screamed that there is something that's nagging with him. And I mean, we know he missed time down the stretch because of it. So you have to wonder what percentage he's at right now.

Did you want to follow up on the injury at all you got yeah kind of is that cool yeah the um you know you mentioned the over pushing you know you didn't use that phrase that was mine you mentioned slidiness just sort of pushing out of the crease you know it if you have a groin injury you're talking about i imagine it would limit your your movements or quiet them rather than whatever it is he's doing so it almost almost seems, it's strange, right, that he does definitely seem to be hurt. We've seen the twinges in the past. And at the same time, you've got,

like he's trying to defend a soccer net half the time. I guess I'm just trying to make sense of, you know, all that's going on for this guy. Like, is he able to calm those things down, do less so it helps the groin and helps him 10 goal? Well, you know what, I'll kind of push, I'll give you my perspective on this a bit, things down, do less so it helps the groin and helps him 10 goal? Well, you know what? I'll kind of push, I'll give you my perspective on this a bit, that when I had that type of an injury before, it was, it's a very sharp, intense, quick pain.

Okay? Like it happens and it's over. It's not something that you consciously avoid in your game. Like you can still play wide. You can still stretch out for pucks. Basically, it doesn't feel like you're going to make it any worse. It just hurts. And so you can kind of battle through it. Like you really can't, I don't think it's going to affect him as much as we might realize or think. I don't know if he's overcompensating for it in his brain. But what I see is just impatience, man. Like he can't, he's not staying on his edges.

Like when you drop that early, when you're constantly sliding, you're not square, you give away the top of the net, you have a hard time closing holes. As we saw Puck slip through his legs from point, you know, later in the game, that's all symptomatic of being impatient and relying too much on being on your knees and not beating the play on your skates and being able to be square and set. We're talking to Mike McKenna, Daily Faceoff hockey analyst, retired goaltender, NHL, AHL, ECHL.

Mike, I know you mentioned that. How is it possible that a goalie cannot make whatever he's going through worse? It blows my mind thinking that he may have to play every other night for two months and somehow you're telling us this is manageable and he can't make it worse? Have you gone through something like this before personally or known goalies to battle for two months? Yeah, well, this is, again, I want to put this in the full context that this is from my own

experience with it. Of course you can make it worse. Like you can straight up tear something, you know, if you tear something, you're probably not playing, but if you just have something that's as simple as a pole, I mean, geez, I had put it this way, guys, I had acupuncture in my groin hooked up to a STEM machine to try to get me through the playoffs one year. And that was two and a half rounds. And you can imagine how close that acupuncture was to home base, guys. It was excruciating. Like, it was terrible.

I can only imagine. But it got me through. Like, I could manage. And to me, that's kind of where it is. Like I say, it's sharp pain that you feel. And you do rely on your trainers. Like, your trainers and their techniques can really help you the problem is that without taking time off like a proper rest period you're just going to

keep tweaking it over and over again so um i i'm i'm not sure where it's going to go i don't know how severe it is i've just noticed him look uncomfortable in situations enough that i know something is there um can he play through it? It appears that he's doing so. Is that long-term? I don't know. What do you make of his coach post-game saying, you know, they asked him who's going to be their goalie the next game, and he said it's too soon to know. And even pulling him in the third period,

how do you feel about how he was handled getting the hook at a 6-2 game after giving up that muffin at the end of the second, and then again, not getting the coach's, I-2 game after giving up that muffin at the end of the second and then again not getting the coaches uh i guess reassurance right away yeah well he needed to come out of the game and not just because of poor play just because mentally you need to get him out of there my eyes they've gotten out of the hand at that point and let's face it sheldon keith knows that samsonov has at least battled injury down the stretch if he isn't right now you've got matt mur Murray sidelined indefinitely I'm just going to say you don't even know what he'd be like when he came back so what's your answer you got a guy sitting there in Joseph Wall who'd never played

in the Stanley Cup playoffs and you got a chance to put him in for a period against a two-time Stanley Cup champion team in Tampa put him in get some experience because you know what you might have to rely on him and those postgame comments me, a lot of people took that as, oh, Sammy sucked. I don't know if we can play him again. To me, I took it as, in Sheldon's head, he's thinking, we don't know if he can play. Like, you know, so I think sometimes that's,

we can misconstrue it that way. And then this morning, I think that Sheldon was very, like almost overtly confident in saying, yes, Sammy's playing, because I think he wanted to reassure that it was not a performance-based thing, is my best guess, at least, when it comes to that. So when you watch a performance like Samsonov, and you know you're going to go to him in game two,

how much, how shorter does the leash get? And when you think about an alternative plan, do they lean towards Wall or do you go back to Matt Murray and hurry him up? I mean, first off, Matt Murray's coming from a concussion. So hurrying him up, and especially with the multiple ones that he's in the past, that seems to almost be off the table. To it's just joseph wall or joseph wall and honestly the way he played on the stretch guys i had people laugh at me when i suggested that joseph wall might be the best goaltender in the maple east organization and people base this purely because they've never seen him play a ton of nhl games and you really don't know what you have but you've

also had a goalie rip up the American league this year. He was an all-star there. He came and he played great hockey down the stretch. He's probably the most dynamic of the three goaltenders between Murray Samson off and wall. But he's also probably the most in control. I would say him and Murray, at least in that regard.

But I think that the upper end of athleticism is higher on wall. So I don't think that this is a wash. If that's who you have to go to you're definitely an uncharted territory but how different is that from samson off like samson i've had a chance with the capitals last year and he couldn't make it stick there either in the postseason him and vanachek going back and forth so um i don't think there's really much to lose if you have to go to joseph wall and i think in honesty it might take a little pressure off and get the guys to wake up and play a little harder in front of them.

I wanted to get your perspective, you know, not knowing goaltender, not knowing the position as well on the fourth goal, which is Braden Point coming on the power play, getting a pass from behind the net and skating it around, shooting it in. Also, the fifth goal, which is the, you know, Samsonov maybe doesn't get to his post enough. What were your thoughts on the goaltending in both of those? I thought the point goal was curious because, you know, there's no fake or anything like that and he's dead to rights, but I guess you can't really blame the goalie there. Where Samsonov ended up on his backside going from his right to left when point went across the top of the crease, correct? Yeah. Okay.

So, you know, a couple of things that play on that. When the puck goes over to a right-handed player, if you don't get your eyes there early, if your head doesn't track to where the puck and the destination is quickly, you're going on instinct that that shot's coming right off the blade right away. So I don't think that Samsonov got his eyes on it early enough to detect that point wasn't in a shooting stance, right? Like his blade was closed.

It was facing the other direction. But in the back of your mind, the history of the game is telling you this is going to be a shot right away. No one's going to pass up this shot. Well, Braden Point will. Others will. What kind of concerned me is that, again, because his head and eyes were laid on the puck,

his body never really got rotated to the two-point. And when that happened, it just turned into a yard sale going back the other direction. He wasn't able to grab that right edge and go that way. And again, that's an area where I do wonder maybe if that is a groin, if it's affecting. But I think he just got caught out

because his eyes weren't quick enough on it. Gotcha. And then the backhand to the middle, is that where we're going for the last one? No, the jam against the post. The Corey Perry pokes it in. Where the worm, yeah, I got you. So so first off i'm a huge fan of the worm he once threatened to kill me on the ice the only game i ever played against him and um and i actually loved that it was i would have him on my team any day um but you know when you when you jam up against the

post like that there's a couple ways to attack it if your skate is against the post you're pretty vulnerable if your toe box is against the post which is the there's a couple ways to attack it. If your skate is against the post, you're pretty vulnerable. If your toe box is against the post, which is the part of the pad that sits against the skate closest to the ice, you can seal that pretty easily. The problem is that going into toe box on post isn't as clean of a transition as skate blade. And I haven't been able to tell from the angles, whether Samsonov was in skate blade on post or toe box on post. But the bottom line to me is he just got shoved into the net. I believe it was scape late on post. It's really hard to hold that unless you have your, what we would call your anchor leg,

which in this case would have been Samsonov's right leg. The one that was in the crease, pushing him into the post. I'm not sure how hard he had that against the post. He'd kind of butterflied towards it. So, um, you know, for that one, I don't lay blame on Samson up there. I think it's just a tough play.

But you know, the backhand five hole, the couple of rebound goals where he was pushing into the shot. Guys, that's a big difference. You see the top goal is very rarely push into the safe. They push at the puck going forward. That doesn't happen very often.

And I think Samson does that with, happen very often and i think samsonov does that with with regularity and it hurts him controlling his rebounds mike i want to touch base and zone in on something that you said moments ago with with the thought of joseph wall and nothing to lose to go to him earlier i spoke of the mentality of a goalie and you know battling the expectation of being a number one guy like Samsonov went into tonight, or the thought that recent success like Bennington and Matt Murray years ago always came with not much expectations and basically playing on house money

and whether or not that had an effect on Samsonov as early as last night. Tough to say. You know, I think that he's, you know, at the start of the season, no question he was in a dogfight for his career in some ways, right? Like he's a first-round pick, high prospect to the Washington Capitals. And they just straight up gave up on him. They said, we don't believe you can do this. I understand they'll say salary cap implications and stuff,

but no, they just left him to the wayside. They thought they could do better elsewhere. That puts you up against a wall. And I loved how Samsonov responded in the regular season. And that's why I had confidence going into the postseason that I thought he'd be able to harness that same type of mental energy. But last night, it just looked like his nerves were there. I mean, frankly, that's the whole team, guys.

You watched it on the ice. There was a whole lot of deer in the headlights wearing the maple leaf crest last night, and I think Samson was probably kind of symptomatic of that in some ways. So it's a matter of can he flip that switch? Can he put everything out to the, you know, put it out to the waist? And just remember, like you already had to fight once this year.

You really, he doesn't have a whole lot of pressure here. Weird as that sounds, the only pressure you have is what you put on yourself. Which seems completely crazy in Toronto. I fully understand that. But that's the mindset. That's the mindset you have to have as a goalie is that your only

pressure is what you put on yourself fantastic stuff mike really appreciate your time as always we'll catch up real soon uh as the playoffs progress thanks for doing this sounds good guys and expect these ribs coming across the border in about nice nine or ten hours yeah i'll have them on dry ice mike mckenna daily face-off hockey analyst uh first and foremost your thoughts about samsonov and what he was able to pick up uh samsonov being hurt yeah uh it doesn't change how i feel about you know playing him or not like he's the guy who's you know he's played a ton of nhl hockey and had a great season and been a warrior for them. I like what Keith said today about him suiting up for full practice and hanging in there.

So it doesn't change how I feel about what should happen. It does change my comfort level a percent or two. How about your percentage, Sammy? I got a take for you. Just take it. I think ribs are a little bit overrated. Oh, awful take. Just ugh.

I can't believe you said that. They got to be perfect. Yeah, you got to make a good rib for sure. Like if they're not perfect, then they're like fall off the bone. Yeah, fall off the bone. Money in the bank. But if you're fighting with them, picking at them dry, like you have to be an artist to make good.

I think you've been eating bad ribs. That's all I think. I've had plenty of good ribs in my life i'm sure you have but it's can be a little overrated anyways i'm just a little bit concerned about you know comparing binnington and comparing other guys that have gone on runs they haven't done it in toronto boys this is a different animal this is like it's hard to compare any other situation to toronto i can't disagree with him i think he makes a good point this time thank you uh disallowed goal or i'm sorry allowed goal allowed goal challenged in multiple ways many leaf fans thought should have been disallowed first off gun to your head that puck go on the net no every last millimeter across the red line it's

it's not a flat puck no she's not she's round she's round yeah now did the round part cross the line completely or did the bottom the bottom cross but i think the you know you take it up from the goal line, I think you're catching a sliver of black. The video, to me, was inconclusive on both sides. I can't definitively tell you if it's over the line or not. I agree. How the hell did Wes see it go in? Well, I understand that you would look and see it puck in the net. But he reacted to Perry going, ah!

100%. Stupid worm face, ah! And then he points goal. He has to have believed that went in. I agree with Sam, though. He got influenced. You get sold on it. But you see it, it's in the net visibly, but it's not,

you haven't seen it cross the line. Yeah, listen, what happens is if they're not comfortable in the net visibly but it's not you haven't seen it cross the line yeah listen uh what happens is if they're not comfortable in the video room you have to go with what the official says on the ice i know and you know you know what kills me too and i'm seeing if i can pull something up for you very quick while we're chatting here this clip of justin hall right here kipper fishing for it from a distance like get in there it's not a middle school dance he's got his butt out he's fishing for the stick lots of fishing last night lots of fishing get in there we are gone fishing they hung that sign up about what a minute 19 in i think we're pretty good to

justin hall on this show generally but we are boy he was no good last night yeah you know what i liked him at a part one part i was like you know, he's made some blocked couple shots in the PK. He had a little composure that other guys didn't have. I just found he is getting whipped. People want him out. I just thought he missed an unbelievable opportunity to take a strip off of Corey Perry circling the net. Start of game one. That would have been the best two-minute minor you'll ever take.

Set the tone. The building would have erupted. You know, part of me thinks because Perry cut under him that he did want to get a big piece of body. He assumed Perry was going to get sold out on the hit. Go show it. I saw no attempt to take the body. You know how sometimes you go and you overcommit and you fall awkwardly because you thought you were going to make contact that you

don't like swinging at a pitch did you see that no i did not see that um okay we're going to search for that in the meantime we'll take a quick break hockey hall of fame mark messier espn hockey analyst is going to come by and share his thoughts on what's going on between the ears of the toronto maple leafs as they get ready for game how could he relate thursday night i think he has a little experience and i can't wait to dive into it mark messier after the break you're watching and listening to real kipper and born oh by the way before we go to break uh like over 3 000 viewers on youtube can like i think we got a chance to hit 500 likes what do you think i think so

pounds up baby we'll find we'll find out after the break real kipper and born everything you need to know about the blue jays blair and barker be sure to subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Okay, our next guest might have a small clue of what it's like to play this time of year. Some experience, yes. Six-time Stanley Cup champion.

The last one being the most important because... Obviously. Because my co-host was there. Yes. Let's welcome in Mark Messier. Hey, Moose. How are you, pal? Thanks for doing this.

Doing great, Kipper. That was your Stanley Cup. Thank you. Yes, it was. Riding your coattails, baby. So, Mass, I need some help here. I need you to talk our producer

Sammy and everybody in Leaf Nation off the ledge after game one. Well, I don't know if we needed a reminder that winning a Stanley Cup is kind of hard, but we got a dose of reality of that last night. There's no smooth road or straight line to a Stanley Cup, and you're going to have to overcome a lot of obstacles

in order to win one. So in your experience i mean playing on all those champions and then the years that you didn't uh experience a a really bad loss what would what would be going through the minds of uh uh the leafs now how would you have handled that loss in your day well it's really interesting uh normally any team's uh journey to a stanley cup is uh is going to be met with some adversity along the way uh the least find themselves uh getting that that adversity very early in the series actually in game one which i don't think anybody expected but look at these are the times that can either galvanize a team together

or they can tear a team apart, and it's just really how they're going to kind of look at it or come together and figure out a way forward. They didn't play very good last night. There's no question about it. Can they play better? I think obviously. But even if they play better,

it's always going to be a tough matchup against Tampa because Tampa's a really good team. And they've got superstars on their team, and they've got a great goaltender, and they've got a lot of experience. So even if the Leafs play great, it's not going to guarantee a win. But I think the players to themselves have been reminded that in order to beat the Tampa, they're going to have to play much better than they did last night. They're going to have to play much more disciplined.

And, you know, Tampa's going to score some goals. And so, you know, they've got to figure out a way to get their own offense going as well. What are your thoughts on the word nervousness and, you know, dealing with pressure for NHL guys who play in front of 20,000 people all the time and have been in big games their whole lives, most of them. Can it still have an effect on guys at the highest level in these sort of moments? And how does it affect players if you do think it has some? Well, I think it can.

And I think in the past, teams have shown to have that kind of nervousness, especially early in the game. But that kind of goes away after the first few shifts or the first part of the game, in my experience anyways. I don't think we can chalk that up to last night, in my opinion. I think, if anything, I mean, I don't know. It's hard to talk about the Leafs without being inside the dressing room. But, you know, Tampa kind of was just kind of waltzing their way

through the end of the season and not really making any noise of any kind other than them being past Stanley Cup champions. But they took the time to get themselves ramped up and to get healthy and were relying on their experience coming into the playoffs. And they came out with a great game one. But, you know, nothing's ever won in the first game, whether you get crushed or you win and lose in overtime. You know, the Leafs got to be looking at this

as it's going to be a long season, and I still think it's going to be. We're talking to Hockey Hall of Famer and ESPN Hockey Analyst Mark Messier. Samsonov comes in, yes, number one goalie and probably feeling a little bit of the pressure yet not the start that he wanted. Is there any way that you can draw any comparison

to say your 1990 Stanley Cup in which you had Bill Ranford, and if I'm not mistaken, you guys lost maybe 7-4 in that game, and I think you were down in that series as well, and Ranford surviving. Yeah, well, you know, Billy actually came in uh you know and he had some pretty big shoes to fill with the goaltending that we had in the past with mogan fewer but

he came in and and played an unbelievable that year to be honest with you and so going into the playoffs we're very comfortable as i'm sure leafs were coming into the playoffs with samson love he he's had a good year. So I think that confidence happened way. But I think this was a collective effort. So I wouldn't really be pointing the finger at any one particular player. I think overall it was just a kind of a bad night that got worse for the Leafs. And they've got to park that pretty quickly now and get ready for themselves tomorrow.

And so what does that look like, that sort of trying to regroup? I was just thinking about the Leafs. They give up one with one second left to go down 6-2. I can't imagine sitting in that dressing room for the third period where really hopes of a comeback against a great team like Tampa are pretty much non-existent. You know, who does that

fall on? Is it all Sheldon Keefe? Is it the leadership group? How do they get themselves back to the level of confidence and frankly swagger that they need to be a great team in this league the score at times is irrelevant to the series outcome uh you can't play a game as individual entities and thinking just because you're down six-2 that there's nothing to be gained from the rest of that particular game. I mean, every shift, every kind of contest or contested puck out there is important for the future of the series. And, you know, and I think if you look at it as individual battles

that are going to be ways to win the war. You know, there was a lot to play for, even though they were down 6-2 last night, in my opinion. But it's also a reminder that teams in the playoffs have to be able to win in different ways. You can't be one-dimensional. What you find out in the playoffs is that whatever you do well, the other team understands that and is well scouted, and they're going to take that away from you.

So when they do start taking away your strengths, I mean, how are you going to respond to that? And what are the things that you're going to do in order to change that or reverse that kind of strategy that's going against you? And also being able to win in different dimensions, whether it's through physicality or whether it's through your offense or your power play or penalty killing or, you know, the ground and pound. So if you're a one-dimensional team coming up into the playoffs

against a really good team, you better be able to adapt very quickly and change courses and figure out a way that you're going to win this series one way or another. What does the leadership group do now, Mark, in terms of you're uh john tavaris through ryan o'reilly um and and you've got michael bunting who you hope can find his way back into this series and still be a a positive uh you know part of the part of your team yet you know you you'd like to hold them a little accountable for the hit,

a necessary hit. But where's that fine line on bunting? Well, that's what I'm saying. When you have games last night and you're on the least end of it, those are the kinds of games that can either galvanize a team together even more or they can fracture a team. And everybody gets into self-survival mode and everybody has their alliances and self-protection and and they forget about what the really the real goal is here is that you know nobody's going to win win by themselves anyways we

need everybody to to play well we need everybody to be at their best we need to be able to trust everybody that they're going to do the right things on the ice and get themselves prepared and then you just start kind of rebuilding it all and and and that's through conversation and We need to be able to trust everybody that they're going to do the right things on the ice and get themselves prepared. And then you just start kind of rebuilding it all. And that's through conversation and reminding that, you know, we're a good team. We've been a great team during the regular season at times. And if we do execute the way we think we can, we're going to have a great chance of winning not only the next game but the series. And that goes for every team.

Every team is going through the same thing. Every team's going to have doubts during any playoff series. Teams are going to be tested. Individuals are going to be tested. Teams are going to make mistakes. Individuals are going to make mistakes. And it's how you overcome with it and how you deal with it that is the most

important thing. And like I said, to start to show off, the Leafs are facing all this very early in this playoff series. And maybe someone said if you're going to eat a little crow, it's better to do it early while it's still warm. So the Leafs have to do that right now. But this could be the best thing for the Leafs. Yeah, I mean, it very well may be.

It is interesting listening to John cooper and talk about how he goes the leafs may win this series but all i know you know i wouldn't bet against my guys and he's referencing the past and what they've been through together you know you have a lot of experience with that and and so what sort of confidence comes from having been through it before like what are you able to take away that maybe the Leafs don't have in their dressing room that that Tampa team, even when down men, even off a rough season, seems to be able to draw on? When you win Stanley Cups as a core group,

it changes you and it changes your perspective on a lot of things. And it gives you that unwavering belief that you can win. And teams that have never won a Stanley Cup don't have that. And so right away going into a series like this, the Tampa Bay has a distinct advantage in that aspect. You know, Tampa kind of had some seminal moments down the stretch

when Cooper called some of the players out and they weren't playing well and he benched some because of the effort. And all with the idea that he was preparing his team mentally psychologically to get themselves in a playoff mindset in my opinion anyways

you know, Tabaskalessi took some time off, you know, and they were kind of just getting themselves geared up for the playoffs but deep down under all the layers, you know with cooper and and and the team the core they have an unwavering self-belief that they can go into any game to win if they play and they execute well and they did that last night and i think they have that going into the series and of course after what's happened with the lease over the last year last few years and not being able to get the first round and of course, after what's happened with the Leafs over the last few years and not being able to get out of the first round

and, of course, going up against Tampa again, there is no question some self-doubt in the Leafs' dressing room. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If anything, they should use that as fuel to spur them on and to be terrified of losing and to play harder and make sure that they're doing everything they can in order to win the series. And last night, that wasn't a reflection of the mindset that I think they have to have.

They announced no Chernak tomorrow for game two on the blue line. Hedman's questionable. He hardly played last night. Is that a small victory in itself, knowing that the Leafs may have two of the top four defensemen out of the lineup going into Thursday night? Massive, massive. It could be the turning point of the series in some regards. You know, you can't replace Hedman and Chernak for not only the size and the strength and the experience and athleticism that those two pillars of defense represent in Tampa.

I mean, you think about, you know, taking them out of the lineup, you know, that has got to be something that the Leafs are relishing in some regards. I don't even know what happened to Hedman, to be honest with you. We couldn't get any idea of what was wrong with him. But, you know, that's a big problem. You know, Perbic came in last night and played great in Radish. I mean, you talk about a team that kind of continues to restock the shelves and find players.

Those two young defensemen played unbelievable last night. But they're going to be tested even more so now. And we talk about it all the time, Kipper, and you know the depth of an organization is going to be tested all the way through a Stanley Cup run. And Tampa is going to be tested now with those two guys going on the lineup.

Mark, the Tampa Bay Lightning are a really well-structured coached uh they're in a lot of right spots then as you mentioned when you're a good team they take away your strengths matthews and marner really are the strengths of this toronto maple leaves team they have to produce for them to have a chance what do you want to see out of matthews and marner here we haven't really seen a series where the two of them have taken it over but even if they're not producing is there things they can do things within their control that they can handle to at least make sure that they're contributing well you got to flex outside your comfort zone at this time of year there's no question about that you know going into the

series you look at the top high-end players on both teams, and it's not like Toronto has a distinct advantage over the skill set of Tampa. And Tampa's got amazing skill, and they're in the peaks of their career, and then with all the experience and belief in themselves. And so there's not a huge advantage to Toronto in that regard. So even if you call that a wash or maybe a slight edge to Toronto in that regard. So even if you call that a wash or maybe a slight edge to, to Toronto, maybe, but,

you know, I think if you look at the players that have won, like Stamkos and Kucherov and Point and, and, and their, and their high end skill players there, you know, they play hard away from the puck all the time.

They will finish their checks, you know what I mean, at any given chance that they can. And, you know, they back check, you know, hard through the neutral zone and put pressure on the puck everywhere. You know, and it's not like they do it, you know, maybe 100% of the time all year long, but at this time of year, you have to do that,

and you've got to get, like I said, outside your comfort zone, and maybe you've got to play a little more physical. Maybe you've got to block some shots. Maybe you've got to be a little bit of an antagonizer. You know, you've got to figure out what needs to be done at any particular time throughout the game while you're sitting on the bench at any particular time throughout the game while you're sitting on the bench and feeling the temperature of the game kind of getting a feel of what's

missing or what do we need or what needs to be happening here and then you got to be willing to go out there and do that um and whether you're the you know the best player like matthews or any one of the role players or anybody else um And that's just what playoff hockey makes you do, not only as a team, but as individuals. And if you're not willing to flex outside your comfort zone, it's going to be a long, long series. And do it without hurting the hockey club. Unfortunately, Bunting couldn't do that in game one.

Hey, Mass, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about the Rangers and the Devil Series, a convincing 5-1 win by the Rangers. Is this just the bigger team taking care of the faster team? Well, I think of a couple of things, a combination of a few things. One, I think the Rangers, you know, the experience that they gained last year is just, you can't underestimate what that's meant to that team and the confidence that they had coming into the playoffs this year.

And then you add the players that they did with all the Stanley Cups and the pedigree and the game-breaking talent, and then the young core defense that they have that's mobile and big and strong, and then the goaltending. It looked exactly what it should have looked like if you think about New Jersey as being a young, up-and-coming team but without the experience. Rangers dismantled them last night. They completely took New Jersey out of their game.

New Jersey tried to force things all through the ice, all over the ice. And that was exactly my point earlier, is that there isn't a perfect example of a team that's going to have to try to figure out a way to win differently than they have throughout the regular season. It's not going to work in the playoffs against a team

that's obviously scouted them very well and took away their strengths last night. Mass, we just love talking to you. We sure do. We can't get enough. This is the best time of year. I love it. Yes, it is, baby.

I love the psychological warfare. I love everything about it. Awesome stuff. Hey, we'll stay in touch and keep enjoying the playoffs. Doing a terrific job on your shows, man. Thanks for doing this. Hey, listen, and I just want to say we're loving the Little Buddha drink

down at the hotel in Runaway Hill, so good job with that. Little Buddha, available in the Bahamas, baby. Thanks, Mass. Thanks, Mass. Appreciate it. Which Kipper owns? Quite the endorsement for my little buddhas flip it buddy put it on your website um boys mark messier what stood out for you there

a lot honestly that i i can i say yeah what do you got no no please you go first the thing when you asked about when you're in the room when you're down six two what do you do and it's like well it still matters it's not one game did you feel like they stopped playing last night a little bit completely stopped playing and i texted you guys and i said can someone look like they're pissed off that they're losing six two where they don't want up not to be a jerk but it's like you're not playing tonight to make it seven four you're playing to send a message of what game two is gonna be like right and i i can i can still i can take a strip off of you still here i can i can wear you down all i could think of is imagine tampa oh my god seven three there'd be knees flying around elbows yeah maroon would be

falling on goalies that you know i'd say that's the right answer but it would have been nice to have seen a little something more and i know it's not 10 or 15 years ago but that period it ended too fast yeah you know what I mean? Both sides just wanted to play run time to get to the next day. But the winning team, yes. The losing team, no. You should make that 20 minutes miserable for them.

Yes. It's a series. Show them that you're gonna push back, that you're pissed off a little bit. And then... I think that's an important note we text about it last night the the other thing that i just love hearing from him is that you gotta flex outside of your comfort zone okay 34 austin matthews looked awfully comfortable last night you know he was in his comfort zone come on come on it's just it's not good enough he he needs to dominate as he's shown

us in the past. Yeah. I thought he was their only guy in the first period. I thought he was their only player playing, and then I didn't notice him for two periods. I thought in the first period that the O'Reilly, Nylander, Tavares line had a couple good shifts, good moments where I noticed them. But outside of that, I thought all the stars were kind of unnot from 16 nothing from any of them really a bunch of flip punts and yeah like

this i thought they all kind of shrunk yeah no i got it i don't think like i think you i think with being the super stud of the team which you know that matthews is supposed to be his physicality his power his sort of bringing the puck to the neutral zone you know that matthews is supposed to be his physicality his power his sort of bringing the puck to the neutral zone game one that's kind of what spurns the team on everyone kind of feels it and it wasn't there last night like he's looked a lot during the regular season in those stretches where we're like where is he see i thought he was good in the first again you know and after that it's just kind of nothing he backchecked he's, I thought he was good in the first again. You know, and after that, it was just kind of nothing. He back-checked.

He's won pucks. He was the only one making plays. Not you're a top five player in the league. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not enough. Certainly not enough from anyone there. Top player in the league got no points in this game one, too.

So everybody's easing into it. Right? Lots of hockey. Yeah, listen. He has has to we did the checklist last night you guys took austin matthews versus point yeah i took braden point last night yeah right or yesterday and you have to be better than point you have to outplay him you have to stand out and you and you have to be that guy and 16 and 16 did you yeah listen marner and matthews did not lead no like they need to yeah and that's abundantly clear it's so funny not funny but when you watch some of the... Corey Perry, 3.7 shots on court. Seven shots.

I know. When you watch some of the, you know, I think a dry saddle showing, I think of McKinnon in playoffs last year, the way he bullied through the, you know, the postseason at times. You know, we're waiting for that to happen for Toronto. And when you're built the way they are, financially top heavy like this, it needs to happen. Listen, you know how I feel about center iceman pivotal position they dictate

they yeah and that's where matthew has to be as good or better and he was in the first point in the first few games five games i would say last year he was that yeah and you think of that you think of the the game winner in game five where him and Marner bust through the neutral zone. They go in two on one. Marner shot pass off the pad. Vasilevskiy taps it in to make it 4-3. And the building's going. They're flying.

That's the identity of this team. Those guys taking over. Flexing outside your comfort zone. Big time. Yeah, I thought last night. I actually like, you know, we talked about ways that the Leafs are set up going forward them getting points even though they didn't play well i actually think helps them i think it takes some of the pressure off you know you don't want to be there with bagels and the scorecard yeah you know so i feel like it frees them up to do some

other things marner finished with three three yeah he had two second assists on the power play and a good an assist on the 7-3 goal. And then, yeah, same thing for Matthews, a second assist. Tavares had one helper. Yeah. Sorry? Tavares had one helper. Tavares made a great play on the Riley goal.

O'Reilly goal. Yep. But, yeah. Power play. Yeah. Goal. But I do think it just makes it, you know, Nylander gets a goal.

They get all, okay. You're not falling behind the point per game mark. The one thing, though, that again stood out, five on five, even strength, Tavares, Nylander. Yeah. Minus two. Yeah, were they? Yeah.

Come on. You can't be dash two. No. No doubt about it. Not when you're built. You know, you're stacking two lines. Those two lines better come out on the right side of those duels. No doubt about it.

All right. Anything else? Did you want to? Yeah, Matthew Nyes is going to play for him. Yeah, we should probably talk about that. All right. We'll talk about it a lot tomorrow, I imagine. You want to get Sheldon Keefe on?

Nice. Did he talk about it today? He did talk about it today, if you want to hear that. All right, we got that? Yeah, we do. Well, we think he's a great option for us. You know, in the games that he's played, I think he did a good job. He's taken care of all that he can do in the short amount of time he's been here.

Obviously, bunting situation's up in the air right now, and we'll see how that goes. But we brought him in here for a reason and gave him the games we gave him for a reason because we felt he'd be a good option for us if needed, and the more experience we could give him, the better. Today in practice, tried to get him some proper reps because he really hasn't had that this week. Lineup decisions, we'll make those tomorrow.

Michael Bunting's hearing concluded, I guess, just a while ago. And? Should expect some sort of decision probably right around puck drop when no one's watching. Yeah, Toronto's going to miss that news. That's when the NHL likes to drop those things one's watching. Yeah, Toronto's gonna miss that news. That's when the NHL likes to drop those things, I think, right around game time. Do you know

what the number is? I do not. No? No. Sometimes you know these things. Why do you always look at me like I know something and I'm not telling you? Because you do. You do. So that's why I just thought I'm not telling you. Because you do. You do. So that's why I just thought I would ask. I think if by chance he only gets a game, he'll be so lucky. But I don't see it that way when you factor in everything about the hit.

I think it's a multiple game suspension. The only question I think is whether it's going to be two or three. Yeah. How can, you know, what case can Bunting make? You know, you're trying to throw, I guess you say you're trying to get body position, early pick on a guy, whatever. There's just so little case to be made. I don't know.

That's a tough one. We do have another clip from Keefe on all this negativity. He has one on. Yeah. Okay. Does he address Sammy or does he just speak in general? This is just, let's listen to the clip. Holy Jesus Christ.

They're ignoring anything that's happening outside of the room in terms of the negativity after that loss. I mean, how important is that that these guys are able to shut that out? Very. I feel like the Leafs are like Baines, like other people. Like they've been, you know, born into this darkness and negativity molded by it. I, once upon a time, was a Toronto Maple Leaf. There's no escaping it. No. No. No no no no you can't open a social media app yeah can't go buy milk can't take a walk with your dog no it's everywhere yeah it's just born and all clips on the they can't wait to go to tampa

yeah i you know there's a case to be made that that is a better environment when things are going poorly but oh i think they'll i think there'll be a comfort zone for sure yeah get down there yeah just gotta i've i've a lot of confidence that minimum one out of two in tampa the Leafs. Yeah. That building is not intimidating, like the way you think of TD Garden or Madison Square Garden. Sure, I think that's a fair point. I don't know. It serves them pretty well over the last few years.

They've done okay. No, no. But as from a Leaf fan perspective, I'm not like, oh. They were doing okay. You got to go into Tampa Bay. It's not like going into Boston or going into New York. Get on the Leaf fans. Half the building will be wearing Leaf jer Tampa Bay. It's not like going into Boston or going into New York. Get all the Leaf fans.

Half the building will be wearing Leaf jerseys. That's what I mean. They'll find a way to get in there. But the problem is, all Tampa loved the Leafs so much, they copied their jerseys, so you can't tell which color is which. Yeah, you can't tell if it's a heavy Leaf crowd.

Anything else, or did we just completely Dissect that like Sammy On a tough rib Where you just pick it apart We did reffing, we did Samsonov We did the big guys Power rank your barbecued meats That's what we should do

Ribs might be my number one No joke ribs for me Oh my god I gotta be honest with you I was so focused on the leaf I didn't watch a second of anything else No joke ribs for me. Oh, my God. I got to be honest with you. I'm so focused on the Leaf Tampa Bay. I didn't watch a second of anything else. I don't know what the hell happened. I just looked down and I'm like,

oh, maybe I'll ask Mark about this 5-1 score that I'm looking at for the first time between the Ragers and the Devils. Yeah, the Kraken won a game. Oh, my God. The Kraken 3-1 colorado yeah you guys were gonna let me do the whole show and not tell me that seattle won i know boys i i didn't the goaltending i did watch i heard uh grubauer was outstanding really yes oh it was the colorado goaltender that

was not outstanding can you now just think about like grubauer going in there and just stuffing it down colorado yeah great love it love stories like that right that's fun i the seattle team is like they're very much early vegas when they went to the cup final and that they're solid all the way through and nobody's that great so you kind of have to play well to beat them they need mccarr they need mckinnon they need ranton and those guys doing things they need their big dog skip well uh good on them and the jets go into vegas and just uh yeah take care of business 75 zips in his face who was it the oh my god you see the skate under that guy's visor? How does that happen? Barron. Barron.

Justin Barron. Barron. The guy comes back. He legitimately got slashed in the face. Like they probably had to do stitches inside the cut, which is fairly common, which is when the number gets so high. And then, I know. And then did you hear what he said after the game?

No. What was your first thought when that happened? He's like, I don't want to know if the puck went in. Are you serious? That's what he said. What are you, brain diseased? You're dying. Yeah, think about it, though.

Like, here you are, you're scared, and then you just see the guy come out with a cage and a patch on his face, and you're like, and Rick Bone has talked about this. I mean, it is inspiring. Oh inspiring oh my god this time of year to watch that guy come back after that and go hey boys i'm ready let's go what happened boys we're playing hockey or what i guess he's gone for like a half an hour and that's i mean it takes at least that long to sew anything with 75 stitches 17 shots on net for the Golden Knights. That's a problem. They just don't produce Jack Eichel in his first NHL playoff game.

Dash three. Punk. What a punk. It couldn't have happened to a better guy. We should call Andrew Peters quick just to get him to talk about Eichel's performance in game one. He'd pick up the call. Just sour, eh? Dash three.

Oh, yeah. Oh, he was miserable. That was one of the all-time electric. That was early. On our show? Yeah, when you put his brain in the pretzel and he came back at you, and that was a yelling match. Everyone was laughing and crying.

That was a really good one. That was early. So we're right back at it tonight. The Islanders and the Carolina Hurricanes, Florida, Boston, many Dallas and L.A la in edmonton you want to talk a little bit about uh what's the over under on mcdavid's performance tonight i yeah sure i do i do not to do a bonus playoff picks here but it's hard to picture oh i'm mcdavid mashing the oilers tonight mcdavid getting shut out two games in a row.

There's a certain number, 25-1 on a McDavid hat trick. That's pretty nice. Not the worst bet in the world. Let me tell you something. I feel like he's going to go banana lands tonight. LA is like a bad stench. They will not go away. No, because they're so annoying.

They're on the right side all the time. You know what I think I want to just have a quick mention of is on this show at the trade deadline. Oh, so glad you did this. We spent a lot of time being like the Leafs need to get a goalie. We don't trust that Murray's going to be available. And that was said verbatim. We just said we don't think he'll be available. And that Samsonov is hurt.

He's not hurt. He's not hurt. And then the next guys played at that time. It was like seven NHL games. We had no faith. I said, there's a chance Wolfe plays in the playoffs if they don't get someone. And we went over the different options, who they could have had. In Los Angeles, Jonas Corposo made 40 saves for them last night

and they win by a goal late in overtime and and i will say i said he sucked too and i know we were at least it was me options i was the one who was like trade for gavrikov and corporate sallow do that trade but we were at least kicking around options and people some insiders seem to take delight in the fact that we were wrong in that and saying the leafs i know they don't want to get anyone they don't think they can upgrade their goaltending position the leafs aren't doing anything in the goaltending position then when it didn't happen there was some smugness about it about after all of us talking about how they needed a goalie game one and joseph wool's in that the first game of the playoffs corpus all is pitching numbers game one so i'd like to revisit that and just say that we weren't over

our skis saying the leaf should go get a goalie uh matt murray's here here matt murray's availability was of great question derek do we have the tape of that show? Let's just play that tomorrow. Four minutes in its entirety. Kipper, we don't have that because we've talked about it every show before the trade deadline. We have to play a full week of shows where we brought it up every day.

Anyway, so watching LA have the success is great, but it is definitely related to something that we had identified as a concern. And here we are. Samsonov might be hurt. but it is definitely related to something that we had identified as a concern. And, you know, here we are. Samsonov might be hurt. Joseph wall may be playing a lot of hockey here. My dad,

by the way, who was one of some Stanley cups feels like walls going to end up being the guy, you know, really? Yeah. Just feels like, yeah,

there's no question that he's, he will be soon. Yeah. Sooner than later. You heard McKenna today that he thinks he may already be the best goalie they have, option-wise, so it's just an experience thing, which matters. But the point I think that my dad was making is you just don't need to be bad. And the worry is that Samsonov is capable of being bad.

They go down 2-0. You imagine game three. How short is the leash? I think one more. Okay, but, like, say they have a similar first period. Like, would you pull them after two? Goals? Yeah.

Early. No, I think you have to make every effort to show all your faith in me. He's the guy. Would you go down with them until the game's out of hand again before you go to wall in game three game's out of hand again before you go to wall in game three i think so okay that's and i and i still think i might even start him the third game and then if it's two quick ones in the first or something then it's over but i think you got to give this guy a chance to be the guy after that season he had for them interesting oh boy

interesting well that was uplifting okay edmont Edmonton Oilers, anyway, they're going to win tonight. Islanders going to the exact same lineup. Just need to create a chance somehow. I'm going to be honest, buddy. Not going to catch up. The Islanders might not get 20 shots. Can we just make the final 2-1 now? Are they going to get one again?

I just don't see how they get inside. Barzal's got to be better for him. What about those pesky wild tonight? Can they go up to Velski? He's done. Love the wild. He's done. Concussion protocol, yeah.

Yeah, he is. And you assume Chernak's in there as well. I think Chernak is probably not going to play again this series. Ten days. And he's had concussions and he's been hurt. Hey, Derek, I asked YouTube, which blew us out of the water today. Sammy, did we get almost 3,500 viewers on YouTube? During our first segment, we were up to 3,500.

So can I have a drum roll, please? I asked to hit 500 likes. All right. What's our total, Derek? Drum roll, please. 648 at the moment. Woo, buddy. And for the the moment. Woo, buddy. And for the record, that's concurrent viewers.

You know, that's just at any one moment. So it can be, you know. How would you know that? What's that? The light or the what? The concurring. Oh, concurrent viewers. So like our total for views on the show might be 30,000 people watch the show.

But just at one time. See, this is why I love having you beside me. You keep me so current. concurrent if you will yeah that is awesome yeah um all right did we touch on everything was there what's the other game tonight only dallas minnesota right yeah so oh in bruins bruins florida yeah and i'm gonna be it's gonna be a bruins blue jays flick back and forth for me tonight. Sorry to your Islanders. I got to thank Jose Barrioskin. Did you see the Butch Goring-Bissonnette fight over the Islanders?

Good times. Good times. Way to go, Butchie. Getting into it. Listen, that takes some guts. You don't win the consmite without having a little edge, you know? I appreciate the whole exchange. I mean, and you got to have some guts going up against business followers.

So you guys go, what does he have? 4 million followers on Twitter. Yeah. And we'll say biz did not hold back on him. This is a huge Maple Leaf guy. Yeah. Maybe I could get him to text me back or call me back. Biz.

Can't get him. Must be a little disappointed. Too busy. Game one. This is too busy. Biz. And so no, hopefully we get him again. Good dude.

All right. I'm exhausted. How about you guys? think so. Hopefully we get him again. Good dude. All right. I'm exhausted. How about you guys? There's a lot to get through today. I'm wiped. Wiped. Our thanks to Mike McKenna, daily face-off hockey analyst, and of course, the legendary Mark Messier.

Enjoy game two tonight. We're back tomorrow to tee up Toronto and Tampa Bay. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Real Kipper and Born.