Real Kyper & Bourne - DJ Smith Dismissed In Ottawa

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with more on DJ Smith's dismissal in Ottawa before they are joined by Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman (8:06) for a full breakdown of the events. He delves into the timing, the team's short-term goals with Jacques Martin in the interim role, potential long-term solutions behind the bench and what part the fans played in the decision. Later, news and notes - Sam voices his issues with Pastrňák avoiding a suspension for his charge on Lindgren, the Wild plan not to play Fleury in his possible final visit to Montreal, Boston sends Poitras to the World Juniors and the Jets push the Canucks for the title of 'Best Team in Canada.'The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

welcome on in to the real kipper and born show the national hour live on sports net sports at 650 in vancouver and sports net 960 in calgary this hour real kipper and born brought to you by bet three six five as stated uh in our first hour of our show, DJ Smith fired today by the Ottawa Senators, losing their fourth game last night to Vegas. Something needed to be done, apparently. Jacques Martin takes over as the interim coach, and he'll be joined by Daniel Alfredson on the bench as well.

We're going to have Elliot Friedman join us in a few minutes from Hockey Night in Canada to add to this story. In the meantime, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee on board as well for the next hour at JB. Is this the pressure, I guess, of the Ottawa fans demanding changes? The fans win. You know, to me, this is a fan-driven decision where you have a team who there was a lot of excitement around, right?

You finally get an ownership group in there that you're excited about. You get the GM out of there that some people didn't love. You have a lot of talent on the team. Expectations existed for the first time in a while maybe last year too but i know they weren't being met i don't know that ann lauer wanted to do that this season but i think it got to a point where he wants those fans to know that he'll be he'll make the right moves or he'll make moves when things aren't going well so i think to me this is a uh had to do what you had to do sort of thing for the fans we suck wow torts thanks for weighing in the standings suggest that they are dead last dead last points wise but again they've barely played games second last

by points percentage i think for them to be in this position after the offseason hype and the new ownership or whatever this is a pretty you know not easy but it's a choice that they had to make yeah and you see every article written on the in in ottawa right now it's it's a it was a storm it would have been hard for them to stick by him for a lot longer now it's just it's 2003 all over again jacques martin's back and daniel everton is there and here comes patrick patrick schaefer when you need him anyways dorian's long gone but his his message a few years ago that uh the rebuild is over did that set did that set the table for this well uh, yes, it did, Kip.

Because, you know, you look at where the team is at, and then you add Claude Giroux, and you go, oh, we're getting serious about now. He's not a young prospect. Then you sign Vladimir Tarasenko, and you're going, oh, that might be even in lieu of Shane Pinto here. Like, this is about the now, and the now doesn't happen. You have elevated the pressure unnecessarily on your staff,

your team everything around it so yeah i'd say that's where this all originates and frankly it's the best thing for a team that has a lot of talent and should be better than they are i think dj is a good coach davis pain also fired um was a coach of mine excellent coach uh and a good guy so they they needed to do something they got aggressive. The one thing I said all along about the Ottawa senators is I was not a fan of $20 million to corporate Salo. You have from day one, that has been your take.

How, how, how bad are the numbers here? Is it just simply quite very, is it, is it just a matter of getting a save percentage around 905 910 that would be all the difference in the world of this team or is it is it deeper no kip sometimes that's that's all this stuff is right like it's we over complicate a lot of it but

coach firings and goaltender save percentage is directly correlated and this guy was supposed to be a major stopgap for them he hasn't been um yeah i think that's fair that's one that you were very 892 you were very right about this because i was you know you looked at what they did in goal last year remember it was like they have seven or eight goalies last year it was like yeah yeah they got hurt and everybody but for them to bring in corpus you thought, well, they got at least he's an NHLer. He's a league average. And then it just hasn't been anything of the sort. What's his contract?

I can't remember. Five by five. Five by five? No. No good. Four million times five. Is that what it is? Yeah.

20 million I think he got for five years. Which, I mean, four is way better than five or six. It's way better. And I know that sounds silly to say over a million bucks, but it is significant when you consider the cost. Yep. Kip absolutely nailed it. Jacques Martin.

Take this the whole year. Do we envision Ad lauer shopping we're going to uh momentarily we're going to get elliot friedman maybe he can shed some light on short term and long term on the ottawa senators but this is obviously step one of a plan to me can jean martin rekindle the magic between him and the Ottawa Senators that quickly here? He was the head coach, last head coach in the league in 2011, 2012 maybe. Or maybe 2011 was last year, but it's been 11 or 12 years since he's been a head coach. So that's a long time.

Hasn't been behind the bench the past few seasons, right? He was with the Rangers last few years ago. A couple advisory sort of rules 71 years old and with daniel alfredson who's never coached uh at all it seems like part of a process not the final plan to say the least i had suggested in the first hour that if daniel is gonna take this on for the rest of the season i assume that he's thought about aspirations moving forward past this season is there any scenario you see daniel alfredson following the footsteps of a martin marty saint louis in montreal i certainly didn't tell you it had that chat i was kind of thinking maybe he's

like angling to like be the gm there at some point but head coach is an interesting thought a couple points that i think have been really relevant on this one that Sammy made, which was coaches are hired to be fired and you'd hate to hire a guy who eventually you have to fire Daniel Alfredson again. I don't like that, but also I think it is a little bit blase about what the role of a head coach is to just hand it to a guy,

to a team with expectations who hasn't done it at all. I understand that this year he'll be sort of transitioning, but I just think it's a really big ask to say Daniel Alfredson is going to be an NHL head coach of a team that, again, has some expectations. I think it's a lot. What do you think? I think they should just hire Gerard Galant or Craig Berube

or one of these guys and just kind of give it a kick at this point of the season i guess they probably don't want to pay him but like don't you want a guy that's going to try to pull him to the bottom is it about paying him or having the expectations that a guy like gerard who has success, short-term success with any team he's gone. Like, what's salvageable? From this season? From this season that you would go hire a gun like that to get you back in the race here or set something up for next season? The best argument is that this team is five or six fewer games played

than pretty much everyone else in their division. If you win those games, you're kind of in the mix again for a wild card spot, which right now they're a good distance out. But I also don't want to gloss over the fact that in the first hour you said that if your group had got the team, Patrick Wall would have been the head coach of the Senators.

No, I did not say that. Oh, okay. Sorry, no, you're right, you're right, you're right. You said your advice would have been for that. I said if I had my way. That's right. One voice of many. Would you have gotten your way?

Let's go to Elliot Friedman now from Hockey Night in Canada. Elliot's timing is spectacular. What's going on, Fried? Just another day in the NHL. Just let me say this, Nick. I had said before I heard one of the groups was going to hire Patrick why if they got it but I never specifically said it was you because I wasn't sure and I'm still not sure Elliot when we first heard of Jacques Martin uh was was the writing on the wall, was the clock ticking on DJ Smith?

I think, honestly, Nick, I really think they wanted DJ to finish the year. I really do. I think that was their plan. I mean, it was weird today. This morning, I was wondering if there was any chance that a coaching change was going to happen. And then I heard he was running the practice. And I was like, OK, I guess, you know, maybe they're going to wait until they come back from the road trip this week. I was so I was surprised it came down today.

I was really surprised with the timing. I think Steyos really wanted, really wanted to finish the year, let this run for a bit. But they just got into a situation and both of you guys have lived it as players where you know the you can't stop the bad momentum and you have to find some way to do it like i don't think jacques martin is the long-term solution here um you know he is 71 years old i don't think he's the long-term guy. I heard what you guys talking about guys like Gerard Gallant. I'm going to throw another name at you, and that is the guy who's coaching the Toronto Marlies right now,

John Gruden. And there's a lot of good coaches out there. There's Gallant, there's Everson, there's Jay Woodcroft, there's Craig Berube, who I think is a really good coach. John Gruden won an OHL championship with Mike Handlauer and Steve Stahels in Hamilton in 2018. And I have no idea if the Maple Leafs would allow the Senators to talk to him during the season. But I think that's another name I would put on everybody's radar because they know him. And sometimes if you're comfortable with somebody, that can make a big difference.

But again, I didn't see today coming because dj was running practice and i really do think the senators hope that they could they could finish out the year so it feels to me like uh step one of a process of some variety like it doesn't feel like they're like okay you know martin's gonna be the guy and off we go um alfredson is on the bench uh i think it's safe to say they see some involvement from alfredson probably in a more involved role right around that organization how do you see these next step going is it they hire one of the guys that you mentioned um or alfredson being involved what do you think they see this as a vision for the coaching

position in ottawa well i think what they see is that a vision for the coaching position in Ottawa? Well, I think what they see is that they have a lot of really good players. Yeah. Like, you know what, guys? Like, we just worked a game last Thursday where Columbus was 5-0 on Toronto and barely got out of there with two points, right? And, you know, I have to tell you this year, one of the wildest things for me has been seeing teams like Ottawa and Buffalo and Detroit's better, but even Columbus too.

How many good young teams in this league can't hold leads? And I don't know if it's a lack of experience thing or a way kids are brought up today thing or the way the game is played now thing. You know, the teams that are really disciplined and the teams that are really experienced and the teams that are really smart, they hold leads. And there's a lot of teams out there that are learning to win who can't.

And I look at Jacques Martin, and Alfredson has told this story many times, but when he was in Ottawa and Dave Allison was the coach, he was thinking of going back to Sweden. He was that disappointed with how things were going, and he was that concerned with how things were going. And Jacques Martin basically came in and taught that whole organization how to play and they weren't they never won it but they built up a team that became a real contender in the eastern conference and I think that's what this is right now this is sort of the interim step where

on the ice Jacques Martin is going to try to teach these guys how to play. Because, you know, you've been watching them lately and they are really talented, but they're getting run over in ways that the Ottawa Sanders with this kind of talent should not be run over. And I think that's what this is. This is the beginning of the build-up

to, if you want to win in this league, there's a certain way you've got to play and he's going to teach it to them. We're joined by Elliot Friedman from Sportsnet and 32 Thoughts. Elliot, we've been on the air since 4 Eastern here. Have they had a press conference or a Zoom call, or have they spoken? It's going on right now. It's going on right now. Is there any sense from your end that they're doing this

to salvage a chance to still make the playoffs or is this just to build towards, you know, something greater down the road here and just the feeling of the pressure in a smaller market like Ottawa from a fan base that was calling for DJ's job and possibly the, the, you know, the pressure that Ann Lauer's new ownership had towards that. Well, first of all,

Nick, like 30 games into a season, I don't think you ever say we're done and we're out of the playoffs. Now I know that you were a better student than I was. And, and I was told when I was going into media there would be no math, but the math is not very good for the Ottawa Senators. It's going to take a miracle for them to make the playoffs,

but you don't give it up 30 games in. Like, honestly, Nick, I just think they got backed into a corner, right? They were looking at the way the results were going. They were looking at the way things were happening. And they simply said, we can't let the status quo continue. Now, I also think this, that, you know, you've still got a lot of home games to play. You want your fans to show up.

You worry that, you know, hey, they're going to say another written off season and they're not going to come. And I think that's always a factor. But at the end of the day, and I said it before, I think they wanted to let DJ ride this out. And I just think they got forced into a situation where that was no longer possible. They had to make a change.

And I watched a couple minutes of Steve Steyos before I came on the show, and he just looked like a guy that was like, and sounded like a guy who was saying, I had to do it. Like, it's just time, and I had to do it. So, you know, anyone who knows me really well knows I hate half measures. Like, just, you know, commit to a thing or don't. I don't like being in limbo.

It's just, that's not for me. So I look at this Ottawa Senators team. If I were a player on that team, I got a GM who might be the GM, but maybe he's not. I got a coach who might be the coach, but maybe he's not. I got an assistant coach. He might be here. Maybe he's learning.

Do you think they're going to hire a general manager at some point, or do you think Steyos is the guy? So coach, it sounds like it may be an off-season thing, but when are they going to have roles in place here? Well, I, you know, it's funny to talk about that, Justin, because I absolutely know that one of the things that the players told Stahels and Andlauer was we have too many distractions here and we just want to worry about playing hockey. Right.

And that's one of the reasons I think they waited as long as they did to make the coaching change because they listened as long as they did to make the coaching change, because they listened to that. And they just said, we're going to limit the distractions and we're going to have this run like a really intelligent hockey organization. No distractions. creating a calm organization where they don't panic about things and they get things done properly they they do things that good organizations do you know justin honestly i think the whole gm thing it matters but it doesn't matter in the way you're talking about because they know that steve steos is running the show here he is the boss now well and laura is the boss. Now, well, Adler is the boss, but when it comes to hockey, Steyos is the boss. And so they're going to bring in a GM or they're going to promote Ryan Bonas. They're going to do something like that, one of those things.

But Steve Steyos is there and he's making the decisions. So I think that's irrelevant. I think with the coaching thing right now, I think it just comes down to when do they find the person they want to go. I was left with the impression that Martin is not necessarily finishing the season. He may end up doing so, but I don't think it's impossible that they're going to bring in someone. Because now you look at it, Justin, there's a lot of good candidates out there.

They got their pick. But so is St. Louis. You got Doug candidates out there. They got their pick. But look at all the teams. But so is St. Louis. You know, you got Doug Armstrong out there, and he also. So there is at least a situation now where you've got at least one other team sitting there and saying, we are looking. So if you really want someone, you better go out and get them. I just got, I mean, people are giving me names now throwing me out there jay mckee's uh running his uh and lauer's junior team in brantford so there's going to be a wide

range of of names being thrown out there but elliot there's only one name patrick wah okay Patrick Waugh, okay? The guy, he's a winner. The intensity. You got the cross-border Quebec with Montreal, and you've got the Battle of Ontario. The potential for the Kippers Clippers. Please. There is no other choice, Elliot. Just sign the guy and let's go.

I would love to see it I you know Nick to be honest I think the way that Patrick Wad left Colorado was held against him for a long time he didn't handle that very well and I think there were teams who said we're not going to take the risk on him because of the way he left Colorado. But I think you reach a point where you say, okay, it's been long enough. It's time to test someone on their merits. And I would love to see Watt coach in the NHL one more time. Absolutely. I'm with you. Next question here as we discuss, you know,

where this is and their ability to get into the playoffs which you know frankly we're skeptical of at this point even though they may not be writing it off is there a point where steos gets to say you know what are we going to do here with chikrin what are we going to do with tarasenko what are we going to do with some of these guys like do you foresee a sell-off in ottawa or a team that you know probably wants to keep these fans engaged as long as possible now i think what they're doing sort of the opposite of that a bit justin they're establishing their core okay i think that's one of the things that they're looking at here is who is our core now have a roster in front of you so I don't miss anyone,

but I think when they look at their core, they're talking about up front, they're talking about Kachuk, they're talking about Norris, they're talking about Bathurston, they're talking about Stutzla. I think Pinto is still in that core. I had wondered if they were going to move him, but I'm under the impression. He just came back last weekend. On the weekend, he put up an Instagram post yesterday that seemed to indicate he was there.

And I heard he was moving back to the city. He can't play until January 21st, but he's back in Ottawa. And I'm under the impression that he's probably going to sign his qualifying offer this year. And they are going to look to extend him. So I think he's in their core. On defense, I think their core is obviously Sanderson. I think Chikrin is somebody they see long-term being there. I think Shabbat, I know there's been a lot of rumors,

but I think they see him as their core. So I think that you look at those guys, and let me know if I'm missing anyone obvious, but I think it's like those eight guys. Greg Kubelik. Can you dangle Greg? I don't think Kubelik's the core. Can you dangle like one of them just to change it up?

Would they make Greg available? I don't know if they would. I likereg available i don't know if they would like like i like greg i think i i don't know if i call him part of the core yet but i think he's a young piece that's kind of growing into it right i wouldn't dangle tarasenko i could see that for sure kubelik i could see that for sure jerry just playing his deal i think they just keep him and because he's you know a vet but unless he decides he wants to leave for some reason. But I think they're identifying their core and they're going to go from there. So Tarasenko, I could see some of those other guys.

Greg, why would you do that? He looks like he's going to be a player. He just hasn't done it as much yet. You know what I wonder about is Boucher. That's one I kind of wonder about a little bit. Like, what are they thinking with him there, Tyler? So I'm curious about that one. Does a 9-10 percentage

would have been a difference maker for DJ Smith playing out the rest of the year? Like, how much is this on Cor corporate Salo not fulfilling so far a five year deal? I think that's got something to do with it, Nick, but watching them the past couple of days, it was, it was deeper than goaltending. And you know, I think like the one thing I always think about when a coach,

when a rookie coach gets fired, I always wonder about the second time. Someone told me there's studies out there that show that, and I haven't done the math, because like I said, there was no math when I went into sports media, but I haven't done the math, but somebody told me there's studies out there that talk about how coaches tend to be most successful in their second jobs. There you go. Great stuff, Elliot.

Thanks for joining us. Apparently there were no hairbrushes as well in broadcasting school. Appreciate your time. I got to tell you, Nick, this is good for me. It doesn't get much better than this. You're right. What can I do? I can't do much better than this.

There's no Hillary at home. Thanks for doing this, Elliot. See you guys Thursday. All right, Elliot Friedman. The other thing with Patrick Wise, he can sell tickets, guys. Oh, yeah. He makes them a very interesting club to follow. A great fit for him, I would imagine, given, right?

Like, proximity. A really good fit. I just don't know. I'll tell you, the Sens friends I have want a taskmaster. They want someone to come in and, you know, do their talk it thing, do the, you know, Tortorella thing in Philly. Waz got a little of that in him. A lot of that in him.

The most of it. A ton. He's been running a junior team, so he has been the boss of a boss for a long time. Second stint. And I had one in Keenan. They don't let you come in and relax.

No, you can have fun. You can in your own way. Provided you're winning and playing well. If you have good leadership, they can kind of control that. But there's a sense that our foot is always on the pedal here. There are no off days. There are no, it's not a country club. It's like working with you you just grinding us every day

in the office just hard gotta work having fun is second winning is first you know that's a lot of coaches i had say you know when you'll have fun when you win yeah winning is so fun yeah it's way more fun and i can't argue with that some i saw a little bit of this because i do wallow into Sens Twitter here and there, just to keep an eye. Brady and Mark Stone go out the night before to the UFC. I went to see who actually posted it. It was T-Mobile Arena, their official account.

Okay, it's not them posting it. Which makes it a little better for me, but I do think a bit it a little better for me but i do think bit of a tough visual for for brady night before going to war against someone having a hangout you're listen i this has been twice in the past two weeks i've been hard on brady i love brady but him going out and them getting starched in vegas him going to ufc with a guy on the other team them going losing their coach getting fired. Not a great visual. I'll just repeat what I said before when we had a very brief interaction on this,

which is just if it's anyone other than Brady, I'd say I hate it. You cannot accuse him of not competing. And same with Mark Stone, two crazy competitive guys. But it's not bad from Mark Stone's perspective. He was a captain of a cup-winning team. Went out and won 6-3. They killed him. Yeah.

I know times have changed for sure. if he was a captain of a cup-winning team and he went out and won 6-3. They killed him. Yeah, yeah. I know times have changed for sure, and a lot of these guys are good buddies. They can battle, but they're good buddies. And that stuff happened in my era. There's just no phones or there's no PR departments to catch. I'll say it happened when I played, but we did make an effort to conceal it. There are dinners, there's beers, but there is...

Yes, you're right. You didn't want your coach to know when you went out with the guy in the other team the night before. You didn't even want your teammates to know. Where are you going? I'm just going to go meet someone for a beer. Oh, you're going to meet the other team. It was like cheating, for sure.

You just didn't mention it. I'm staying in tonight. Speaking of that... I'm with Sammy, though. I prefer it not to get out there. I think there's still some growth in Brady and his maturation towards being a team leader. Sometimes, you know, you get...

Going to support Matthew and having the beers and stuff last year? The Calgary thing was a disaster for him. He didn't like that. No, no. You're a member of the Ottawa Senators. You're not cheering for anybody, including someone that your brother plays for. I'm sorry.

You just... If he didn't compete like he did, I would feel more passionate. you're not cheering for anybody, including someone that your brother plays for. I'm sorry. If he didn't compete like he did, I would feel more passionate. I like this take and agree with this take as well. So I see both sides of it. So I'm doing the worst sports talk radio thing. I'm sitting on the fence. I see both sides of this. Yeah, do you want to do game time?

Sure. Okay. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. So,

do you know how many games the Detroit Pistons have lost in a row? I know that they haven't won a game since the Rangers won the World Series. It was a tweet I saw today. 22? 23 games in a row. They've lost 23 games in a row. The NBA team?

Yes. They've lost 23 games in a row. Correct. They've lost 23 games in a row. We don't know that. I just told you right now. You're hockey, yeah. And for me, you know, they're going to win eventually.

They're playing tonight. And for one of my picks, I'm going to go with the Detroit Pistons tonight. To break a 23-game winning streak. Are they playing the Raptors or something? They are playing the Atlanta Hawks who are not world beaters themselves. They are plus 475. Oh, any, yes.

To win one basketball game? Yes. I mean, that's as good as a big parlay. That's a huge underdog. Obviously, they've lost 23 games in a row. They're all professionals. They're going to win eventually. They're not.

So, there you go. One of Sam's picks today. Now I'm forced to check up on that score all night now. I will be also in tune to that. I just have a feeling. I might bet that. And I'm going to really hope they lose again. Well, we talked about this today on the producer meeting

because we talked about them losing. And if they lose tonight, they could tie the all-time record on Saturday because they have three games this week. The all-time record, I think, is... I think I saw it. It was the Cavs. I think the Cavs lost 26.

The year after LeBron left, they lost 26 games. Good year for Cleveland. But the longest... I can't even imagine being on a team like at 15, 16, and 17. What was the longest one? 25 and the ball goes up. I don't know. I played in Hartford, man. We probably had a few.

23 is nuts. No, that's crazy. Played for the University of Alaska Anchorage. We didn't win all that much. I know what it's like to be a part of a little losing streak. It ain't awesome. Was it 23 games in a row? It was not even close.

So do you know who has the record for NHL? Stop. Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh and another team are tied. Just recently. Pittsburgh 17, 16. 18 games. 18.

The 03-04 Pittsburgh Penguins lost. And in 2021, the Buffalo Sabres lost 18 games. They're not as well. So they're both tied. And that's the McDavid draft here. What a coincidence. Terrible teams. 18. That that's the McDavid draft here. What a coincidence. Terrible teams. 18.

That's not McDavid. McDavid. It's 2021. What year was that? Sorry. They've lost in the year 2020, 2021. The Buffaloes. They just sucked.

It was the Crosby year, though, that Pittsburgh was bad, right? Maybe that was with him. No, they dropped him in 05. Because there was a strike in there. I don't know. Anyways, I can't imagine and the other quick pick i had for tonight i was looking at the board for the nhl not you know i like to find value not a ton of value in the underdogs tonight so i had a quick one with the

red wings over the ducks the jets over the habs and the stars over the kraken for a little three game favorite parlay pays plus 201 so that's another quick little one for you. I think Stars in regulation against Seattle is a decent bet, too. I think it's like minus 110. Stars good, squids bad. There you go. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds

and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19-plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Go Pistons go, boys. What do you call them? Go Stins? Stins. You don't want to think the first half of the word. Don't want to go, boys. What do you call them? Go Stins? Stins. You don't want to think the first half of the word.

Don't want to root for it. All right. Quick break. Yes. And I was just checked. Producer here, Armin, texted me. The record is the 28 games in a row for the Philadelphia 76ers in 2015. But that was spread over two seasons.

So it was at the end of one season and the end of the other. Yeah, we're not counting that. So there you go. Anyways, go ahead. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. When we return, Larkin playing tonight for Detroit. There's a hearing, too, tomorrow as well for Perron. Perron gets some money back.

He probably won't be able to not miss games he's already missed. Yeah, we probably won't know. But this one has an interesting twist to it. And we'll get into that. Brock Besser, also hotter than a firecracker still. And that's amazing. Pasta's avoided suspension. I want to get your thoughts on the hit.

Lindgren, he buried him behind the net. Kick him off the tour. And people want to kick him off the tour. Can we get Ryan Lindgren a break? Oh, my God. Kick him off the tour. And people want to kick him off the tour. Can we get Ryan Lindgren a break? Oh my God. I'm getting absolutely drilled. And more as we continue on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.

Everything Raptors, before and after the games. The Raptor Show with Will Liu. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. All right, Sammy, where do you want to start? You're not happy about the Boston Bruins and Pasternak avoiding a suspension on his hit? Yeah.

Stars are above the law, I guess. Just drive a guy's face into the boards, send him off the ice bleeding, and all good. Are we seeing, does it feel like we're seeing more hits from that? It's dangerous. Sure, he turned, but you got to. He barely did. He's seen his numbers the whole way.

See. I don't think it had the force to rise to the level of. I thought he hit him really hard. He deserved a game. It's okay. Lindgren's heading towards the corner, guys. He's not going to the boards. And he, if he holds his position, it's shoulder to somewhat shoulder.

If he keeps skating and stays turned. But he turns at the last second. He pulls up. Why? Why? Probably because he didn't want to get greased from behind. I don't know what he's thinking. But you got greased from behind even worse when you turned at the last second in all honesty we've had this conversation before guys in all honesty lindgren got crushed by mccabe he got crushed by he got crushed by three guys prior to this i wonder if

he was just hesitant going after a puck and then yeah it worked it's like defensive driving is less safe than offensive driving i'm just gonna say it's an opinion thing noah gregor throws that head he's getting a game hmm you know somebody what do you think well first of all he plays he plays for the leafs so they get they get suspended this is not a guy facing the boards he's not a guy that's showing numbers it's a 50 50 puck and he takes one hand to reach for it. It's bad. It's not bad. 50 puck. It, okay,

60, 40. It's a bad play, man. It's, you got a, you got five in a game, right?

Hey, pasta's not sneaking up on him. No, he knows he's there. I think that it might be the best point. He knows he's there. And I, yep be the best point he knows he's there and i so like why are you bracing for the hit why is the puck more important than yourself at that point you know i wrote that article last week that the nhl is caught between these two generations of

physicality to me lindgren if he is that concerned that reaching for the puck there is going to get him crushed then maybe you just have to accept the contact and play the puck later. I think it's a great non- suspension call. Because he is, at least you can say, you can say a lot of things, but Ling Green

getting surprised by Pasternak isn't one of them. He knows the player is coming for him. He knows he's there. So yes, turning your numbers. I could not disagree more he needs that is the exact hit that's similar to nick cousins on yes it is sure you have 10 more examples in your beer league no like he is he's charging sees his numbers continues drives his head into the boards from behind. That is a game suspension. I think they should do the opposite, give him an extra game.

It was so clean, he should get to play 83 games this year. Look at that screenshot. I just watched it seven times. The president of the Booster Club here cannot vote on anyone in the Atlantic Division on suspensions. You can weigh in on the Western Conference. I will give you that. For the record. But as being a leaf lover, you're not allowed in the Atlantic division.

If Willie Nylander threw this hit, I would be the happiest. I would be as happy as I was on my wedding day if Willie Nylander threw that hit. That's what we all love about Paso. We talk about it all the time. That's what makes him, separates him from Willie, is that greasiness. And I love

the fact that he's greasy, but when you are greasy, you deserve a game for greasy hits. Separates himself from Willie. Willie's on pace for 117 points this year, by the way. Really? Yeah. He's got so many points. Oh my God. So he'll calm down and score 105. Still make 11 million next year.

Is that where the numbers are right now? I think the numbers with pasta at 11, six. Yeah. And I think they, they hope to get it down to 11. He just keeps doing points. Five games on tap tonight,

including Minnesota at Pittsburgh. Will we see Mark Andre Fleury, Sammy? No. John Hines is starting Gustafson tonight. Wow. I saw someone say that it could be the last chance for him to play there. You okay with that?

I am okay with it because, listen, I think if you're the coach, a brand-new coach of a team, that's very clear mandate is get your team back into a playoff position and you have a goaltender that's playing very well i think it's pretty fair to play that goaltender that's playing really well yeah he is the hottest goaltender in the league going back the past three weeks um his save percentages we're looking at 958 963 933 1 you know 946 972 but but yeah i kind of watched that team on saturday night you could probably win that game with mark andre flurry in that if you can't you're in trouble with mark andre flurry what do you think

listen they're pretty hot teams since they made the coaching change, are they not? Yeah, 7-3 in their last 10. Yeah. Does that tell a lot of their teams? Like, Ottawa should be good now. Ottawa is just going to go on a tear. I will say, Ottawa's schedule the past few weeks has been really hard.

Like, it does lighten up a little bit. There's still some... I wouldn't be shocked if they won a handful of games here. What if they are the bad team? What's here. What if they are the bad team? What's that? What if they're the bad team? They may be the bad team. Well, the stats say they are.

Other teams are like, oh, our schedule's lightening up. We're playing Ottawa. Ottawa, dead last in the Atlantic. Or sorry, in the East. Plus one goal differential. Yeah, that's crazy. They aren't.

San Jose or Chicago or Anaheim. I think the Senators have a chance with Jacques Martin if he could just, from what I hear, shorten his meetings. Oh, really? Is that like a historical thing? Oh, he's got the long meetings. Oh, boy. Yes.

And he's going to bring in the left wing lock from 2008. So, we got off point here. Does it rub you the wrong way that he's not starting flurry last game like sentimental doesn't matter no no no no no not at this point in his career and Gustafson gives you your best chance to win that's all

you gotta focus on I like the nice little things like hey we're in Sweden start the Swedish guys you know like they're on the team too they can play but a goalie is a pretty big commitment for a gesture you know so I'm okay with that before we were talking Boston I wanted They're on the team too. They can play. A goalie is a pretty big commitment for a gesture. I'm okay with that. Before we were talking Boston, I wanted to stay on Boston.

You had mentioned Matthew Poitras. Boston is sending him to the World Juniors, which is pretty significant for a guy who's played their whole season to go back in. I think it's fairly uncommon. It's very rare. He's played a ton of hockey for

the bruins this year now is uh we had uh bukala on uh the other day is not that i'm following it real closely here but does this help canada immensely go up against the u.s i would imagine oh boy is that is it but is it a game changing kind of feel? To me, it feels like it is because he was talking about how, you know, Canada is going to grind it out a little bit and doesn't have the skill to hang with the Americans. So having a guy who's played in the NHL this long is great. He's got 13 points in the season. I will say his ice time in October, he played 15-13.

In November, he played 14-07. This month, he's played 12-02. Running out of steam a little bit. Yeah, but I'm just looking at... What you would expect for a young player. But it's funny. I'm just looking at his last three games. 14-44, 14-22,

8-26. I'll give you that. But he's got two points his last three games. He's playing for them. They're a team that's good. He's got three points in his last 30 games. But the last three games. Fair enough. No, that's not true. That's not true at all. No, it's not true. I'm looking through here. He has eight points in the past two months. He's having a good

year. He's got 13 points in 27 games. For a team that's in a pretty good playoff. To go to Team Canada, that's a big news for Team Canada. I'm surprised they're letting him go, but I will clarify, he should get to go. I think it's really good for these guys to go be the man in pressure situations yeah i'm excited to watch the leafs guys on that team all right what do we

make of brock besser and what close to a 60 goal pace still like he's got to be at least we knew brock besser to what's he making six million this year like he's sounds right a good goal score but can he keep this up he is 23 tied with austin matthews for first in the nhl like no one saw that coming no i mean geez he was actively available to a lot of teams i would say say, last year. So that's kind of the formula for everything going right for a season, right? You need a guy like that who you've kind of not given up on, but you've been disappointed in their performance to really hit it like this.

I will say, I've always thought he was this type of goal scorer, like a top 10 goal scorer. He can shoot the pill, though. Really shoots it. And just a nose for the net. The way that Jake Gensel just kind of sniffs out goals. You can shoot the pill though. Really shoots it. Yeah. And just a nose for the net. One of those, like the way that Jake Gensel just kind of sniffs out goals. And it's nice for the Canucks that they had that little swoon where, you know,

they were like five and five and 10 games and they've kind of pulled out of it here. Now they're seven, two and one in their last 10. They're, they're, they're a plus 41. They're just good.

They're good. They're a really good team. And even like, you know, I wrote something earlier in the season, like even if they're not quite this good they're legitimately good yeah i mean i think they're canada's best team win out winnipeg by the way we had kevin chevaldeoff on the show we're joining the show today prior to the ottawa firing we intended to give the jets some love today and

you scheduled to join us on wednesday oh is he yes? Yes. Alright. Scheduled. So there you go. But they are giving Vancouver a run for not so fast on who's the best in the country right now. And quickly, before we move off the Vancouver Canucks, they played the Blackhawks yesterday, and Conor Bedard now at 26 points in 30 games.

What's he going to look like when he plays with one good player? I know. It's so hard to get points on a team that plays in the D zone the whole game. 12 goals, 14 assists, 26 points in 30 games. Minus 15, obviously going to be expected playing on a crappy team, but give the kid a ton of credit. I don't know where we are at international,

like the Four Seasons tournament next year. The Four Nations. The Four Seasons tournament next year. The Four Nations. The Four Seasons. Oh, is that where we are? The Four Nations. That's where they'll be staying at the Four Seasons. They haven't titled it yet. It's the tournament with no name.

But you're saying he's a lock? What I'm saying is it's McDavid and Bedard. Isn't that not the line everyone's talking about? I've seen Canada. I have seen a lot of little... It's not... Look at Sammy laid up right now. It's not as good as I thought.

We're good. We're Canada. We're good. You can't teach how much we love hockey and the passion for hockey. That's what separates us from everybody else. But like, it's not what it once was, is what I'll say. And when you look at the other rosters around the world, everyone has really caught up to us. It's the U.S. that you're...

Look at Finland. Finland's amazing now. Look at, I mean, you can't do Russia anymore, but Sweden's really great. You know what shocked me today that Sam told me? We were talking about how good the Canucks are, and he goes, you know, they have zero Canadians among their forward group.

12 forwards, zero of them. Canadian. Is that the part where he says they'll never win now? No. Can't win without, was he Don Cherry? I just thought it was interesting. The one guy they have is DJ Seppi, who's Canadian, but he mixes in and out of the lineup for that game.

He wasn't in there. But yeah, there was all non-Canadians. It's crazy. You don't see that very often. Did you see Zdorov go after Johnson, who ran Petey? Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, my daughter has one of those little, like,

block things where you hammer the pegs into the hole, and that's what he did to the guy. Just the first punch was just downhill, just gunk. See, you got gotta love it right i mean it's come on for i'll be honest for rick talkett and that whole morale and uh we were talking earlier in our show about uh matthew nice coming to the aid of uh max domey but here's the but is like where is that line? And I'm a little torn on it too.

I don't know what the answer is, guys, but like between the challenge and then the acceptance of the challenge. And I know it's always a topic of conversation, but when do you need to fight? When can you not fight? When can you turn down an invitation? When can you not turn down the invitation? Is it automatic that Zdorov comes after you and you have to fight?

No, I don't think he's the enforcer. And that hit was not bad. Not bad at all. At all. And neither was the Domi one. But I think that's the idea that you have a guy that says not even close. Don't even think about it.

If you're ever torn on should I throw this hit or not, don't. I know, but are we guilting people to fight off of a hit? Are we having a crisis of morals right now? No, it's not a morals thing, but I'm like, listen, I'm all for challenging. I thought I knew that.

But I just, I don't know if the answer's right that every time you hit a guy, that if someone comes after you, you have to fight. I don't think you do. Like I've been with, even in my era, you know, and I played with some of the biggest toughest guys like a a tie domi and ty got to say not yet yeah not not on your terms you don't get to come and challenge me when you feel like it our guys never had 100 pims how many times do you think he said no i just don't know necessarily what the right answer is and it's i guess it's an individual

thing but i don't have always have to fight on your terms i i get i get it to say a saying that much of it should be game state related like if we're going to claim fighting as a tactic an in-game strategy it can't just be bad hit fight bad hit fight like it's got to be hey we're up 3-1 i'm not giving you this fight right now you know i'm gonna stay on the ice i'm see yeah i i agree with that you know i think the time not to praise the least too much here but the time nize did it was perfect great after he scored a goal already the building's building's already buzzing it's the first period borderline hit gets the crowd even more into it you go in and win seven nothing nothing. It looks like the greatest decision ever. Now, he was the instigator in it. For sure.

And he didn't get one. But there's no instigator. Nice. Agree. Good. But if I'm Ludwig too, I think I got a little jumped. Well, you did. Right?

Yeah. I don't know about that. I don't agree. Oh, no, no, no, no. I don't agree with that. Not nice. He doesn't even have hands on him. Ludwig's backing up. He has his gloves hands on him. Ludwig's backing up.

He has his gloves off before they touch. He's backing up. He's already engaged with Max. Not jumped. He's got the upper hand. How's that? The upper hand. He is being told we're in a fight.

We're not squaring off 50-50 here. Hey, listen. We've had this conversation where you've told me it doesn't matter you're all about throwing the first punch every time we have this uh like um yeah i'm a dirty fighter i like i admit it i admit it right i don't i think i'll i'll take the jump yeah but i also knew that when i did that i'd have to answer it down the road. Like there might be another situation when I don't get the jump on you and I have to square up with you.

And now it's a different field. When I thought I had to be doing that because if I had time to think about it, I would have left the arena. I needed the fight to start before I could change my mind. Would Matthew Nyes get to a point where he calls someone over and say, okay, you know, let's do the dance at center ice?

I would guess not. Because I'm telling you, if I didn't get jumps on 40% of my guys, I ain't squaring up with Tony Twist. Yeah, you're not going to center ice at Madison Square Garden with him. He's ripping my head off on a 50-50 start. But how much of that is because you're six feet tall and not, you know, Zdorov-sized, you know? Not fair. The hockey gods didn't look after me at 6'4 and 250 pounds.

My dad was 6'4 and left-handed. That's like a cheat code, right? Yeah, I was left-handed until everybody figured out I was left-handed. Right. Did you become right-handed once that happened? No, I was never that good. Never that good. That's when I quit.? No, I was never that good. Never that good. That's when I quit.

Yeah. When I was out of surprises. They got me figured out. All right. Our thanks to Elliot Friedman, who joined us at the top of the hour. Once again, the big story. Ottawa Senators firing DJ Smith today. All right, boys.

What's up on tap tonight? You're working tonight or you off tonight wednesday thursday this week wednesday thursday zigzags game day baby go zigs all right five games on tap including montreal at winnipeg enjoy the games florida at calgary too i'm gonna watch that one they did a number on edmonton, didn't they? Enjoy your games tonight.