Real Kyper & Bourne - Doug MacLean & Friday Mailbag

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with Doug MacLean for his weekly, Off-the-Rails Friday appearance! Mac shares his thoughts on the Leafs' defensive flaws, Matthew Knies' toughness not justifying his spot in the lineup and whether Brad Treliving is at a disadvantage in trade negotiations with the Flames. Then, he goes around the league and delves into the Canucks' trade for Zadorov, which Canadian teams could contend and how the Blackhawks handled the Perry situation. Later, news and notes - Tristian Jarry scores a goalie goal, Tortorella's comments on big hits and they answer your questions on the text line!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome back in to the national edition of the real kipper and born show we are live on sports net sports at 650 in vancouver sports at 960 in calgary always and always this hour real kipper brought to you by bet 365 should we just get max two minutes of pushing his book out of the way so we can get to the really good stuff like zadoroff being traded and what he thinks of the leafs and yeah all of that good stuff off the top absolutely all right doug mclean former nhl president general manager head coach blah blah blah at their author of draft, how teams pick winners or get left behind. Is it true that Kyle Dubas has bought like 100 of these books to give out to his staff?

Is that just a bad rumor? Well, it wouldn't surprise me. Like a lot of people are doing that. I think that it would be a great suggestion, you know, to every team to buy it, you know, have a look at it. But look, I hate to say, but I just got a note from the Globe and Mail today, again, nine weeks in a row on the bestseller list and and what's really exciting is i'm heading to pei next week for a function on tuesday night a fundraiser for the western capitals junior team so we're going to do a book thing george matthews and i book thing for 20 minutes or so and then george galan is going to come in and do a hot stove with me and they they sold the event out.

And I think they're going to raise $50,000 on the night. So I'm pretty excited about going to PEI and doing that with Gerard and having some laughs and selling some books. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's great. Look, I could be Ken Reed and out flogging it in every arena in North America. At least I'm not doing that. But listen, I want to make a comment here before we start.

Oh, no. I've decided, I was thinking about this when I was down just coming up from the pool. I'm going to, I want, when I do this show, I want to be a radiator i want to radiate positivity and just good comments and good things instead of being a drain you guys are a bit of drains and i want to be a radiator of positivity that's my that's what i want to be as i move forward in my life yeah you you look to me more like the like a forced air guy it's's funny, I was going to say, nobody's wanted a radiator in their house in 50 years, so it makes sense.

Or hot air. How about hot air? All right. Well, it's tough to, okay. Well, I was going to ask you about the Leafs, and it's tough to radiate positivity. I know they're getting their points, Doug, but, you know, not the prettiest week for a team that got

four points, was it? Well, I watched their show or the game against Florida, and I really tried to watch it fairly closely because it was like a playoff game. I really wanted

to get a feel for how they would battle in a game like that, where it's in-your-face hockey. And it was in-your-face. And I'll tell you, the Panthers went after them. And as the game wore on, the Leafs got engaged. And I liked their game to a degree. But that's what they got to get ready for. And I keep telling you guys, I don't like their blue line. And now that they're banged up, it's even more critical. Just, okay, Matthew Nyes, just get it out of your system right now. Well, you know, I watched him fairly closely.

And, you know, he's a big body, he's skilled, he tries to do things, but he's got to figure out that you've got to play the game hard if he's going to be the impact player that you think he's going to be. And you've been on his bandwagon all year. I don't know what he's deserved to get in the top to play with Austin Matthews. I'm sorry. Maybe it's a last resort, but somebody should send him a note that you can't be that big and that skilled and play as soft as he does i'm sorry i know you guys don't like hearing it and i know he's a kid but he can play

a lot harder than i've seen him play. Yeah. You know, it's, it's been slow ever since the game where we thought we had you beat on the, the Matthew and I's debate. You know, so the, the Leafs are one thing, you know, this is our national hour, so I'm not going to focus on them too much unless you had something else on the Leafs you wanted to ask him. The fact that, uh, no, no, just no one thing. One thing I want to say, I've got a solution. I've been thinking all day, racking my brain out with this defense is so bad.

Okay. Just play four forwards and one defense. Because they can't make line changes anyway. They're getting caught. Every time they go to the bench, it's too many men on the ice. So play four forwards and one defenseman, and they'd probably do just as well. So just show that to Keith before it disintegrates. Try it. Four forwards, one defenseman, and they'd probably do just as well. So just throw that to Keith before it disintegrates. Try it.

Four forwards, one defense. The NHL used to do that in the 30s, so try it. Maybe more realistic now that they didn't get in on Zdorov out of Calgary. He goes to Vancouver, Mac, and I was at the rink the other night, and someone may have suggested maybe ownership might not be willing, as willing to maybe deal with Brad as they would other teams. Did that stuff go on when you were either with Florida or Columbus or Detroit where you just said, no matter how good the deal is,

you know, I don't like you. I'm not dealing with you. Well, you know what? Yeah, it does go on. There's no denying that. I mean, look, Brian Murray replaced Bobby Clark in Florida after Clark. He went back. We were not making deals with the Philadelphia Flyers.

I guarantee you that. And it does go on it and and look the owner in calgary murray like he he he's not an easy guy and he would not be happy with a gm like how many gms walk away from a job well you walk away from a job if you know you're going to get another one. That's when you walk away from a job. So, yeah, so he's not overly pleased. And then, so I'm looking at this Flames team. They've created this cap space now by moving on from Zdorov. And then Vancouver, who they just traded to,

is a good example of a team that didn't tear it down and rebuild, had some good pieces, and they're kind of doing a retool and having some success. Do you think that's what Calgary is doing right now? And is that even possible for them to kind of pivot without bottoming out? No, I think, I think they're going to have to bottom out because they've got too many guys that, you know, with,

with contract situations and their, and their key players and their team, can they resign, you know, the key pieces or are they going to make trades to look for the future? I've got to believe Craig's got time. The coach has got time. I think they will rebuild to a degree. I like what Vancouver's done. Obviously, Sidorov is a good pickup.

He's not a great pickup. Let's not get carried away with Sidorov here. He's an okay pickup. He fits into the talking mold. It was really interesting last night with Vegas and them. Vegas have been a 500 team the last 10 games or so, and they embarrassed Vancouver last night. They went after them, and they played a playoff-style game, and Petro Angelo was the beast for them. And that just shows how important that big blue liner is and how critical it is for playoff success.

A blue line like Vegas is tough to beat, guys, when they get down to business. And they embarrassed the Canucks last night, but the Canucks have been real good. They've been a great story. Is losing some games and then getting some help on the blue line, is that like good timing? Or would you have rather seen them work it out themselves a little bit first before pulling a trigger?

Or you just can't pick and choose when players are available? No, I think it was a good move on Zdorov, especially when you look at the price tag you you look at the price tag and i threw a third and a fifth okay you know vancouver has got lots of good young players i think they're well positioned i don't mind that i think it was a good deal for them and a smart move to solidify the back end to me he's a he's a third pair guy at the worst is he is he a good worst. Is he a good Branson? Is he a good Branson from Columbus, that type of guy?

To me, sometimes he doesn't think the game as well as you want him to, but he's a big six-foot-six body. Tockett will like him, and he'll move some people. So I like the move for Vancouver, and I don't think they paid too big a price. Hey, Beauvilliers is a pretty good player, guys. Maybe he's not Rick Tockett's type of guy, but he is a decent player in the league.

So then I just want to ask you then about Canadian teams in general here. So the Canucks have, you know, off to this hot start. They make a trade. They're competitive. The Leafs have a ton of points, despite not really playing their best. The Jets quietly. Who do you like in Canada?

Is there a real Stanley Cup contender up here? And maybe it's the Oilers who are rising from the dead like the Undertaker gif. Well, I do so many shows now, I can't remember what I said on each show. But I think I said on your show a few weeks ago that I said the Oilers are going to make the playoffs. And of course you guys laughed at me. And I was trying to be a radiator. I was trying to, I think that happened. So, so I think I, I look at the Oilers and I think, are you kidding me? This is,

this is a Stanley cup contender if they can figure it out. And do they have to fine tune their goaltender? I know they've been out looking, watching goaltenders. You know, they're in Columbus. They've followed around. It's been documented in the media how they've been looking. So who do they pick up? Do they pick up Jake Allen? What about a kid like Primo? I mean, he's had a good year in Montreal. Is he a guy, that type of guy, a younger guy? So I still think the Oilers

are the best Canadian team unless the Leafs can figure out some way to fix what they've got going on. Did you mention a couple weeks ago that you thought the Oilers weren't in jeopardy of missing the playoffs? Was that you?

I said they were going to make the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. Even with their goaltending with Skinner? Even with Skinner, they make the playoffs. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, hey, I've been saying it to you here, but I've been fighting these two clowns. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Okay. If they make it, does Ottawa too? They get Shabbat back. I think there's some, maybe a cap issue there, or they're right up against it to bring him back.

But in your world, you also see Ottawa staying in the mix here? No, I don't see Ottawa now getting in. I think, you know, as I said to Jeff Rimmer, my good friend today, I said, Jeff gets a lot of sleep today because if you lose tonight to Ottawa, you are not making the playoffs. And if Ottawa lose tonight, they are not making the playoffs. If you look at the points after 20 games. It's not Thanksgiving like you guys all talk about in Canada.

That's all BS. I don't know where that came from. 32 thoughts or somewhere. It's 20 games, boys. It's not Thanksgiving. It's 20 games. And, you know, right now there's a lot of teams that are almost out of it, out of the mix. And Ottawa and of it, out of the mix.

And Ottawa and Columbus are both out of the mix as far as I'm concerned, unless a miracle happens. So then the Leafs are playing the Boston Bruins, who have been, you know, number one in their division. Are they, you know, we're looking at true cup contenders here. In a salary cap era, it feels like no one can pull that far away. Do you have the Bruins as the top dogs? Rangersangers vegas who is it that you got on top here i don't have the bruins i watched them a couple times last week guys they were awful oh really they were often all right i

know they won last night but they have not played very well lately and you know it's going to be interesting to watch jimmy montgomery here how he how he grabs a hold of this and and gets this team i mean they they were really good early on i get it to me today i i think the rangers are the best team guys as much as i hate to say it and i will not say it in front of gerard galant the best team in the nhlL, right? He set them up for success. That's what Gerard did. Yeah, of course he did. Of course he did, you know? Go ahead.

No, you go ahead. How am I radiating? Oh, my gosh. That's never happened to us in like 20 years. No, you go. You go. We're usually jumping all over each other to go. By the way, Nick nick you missed a major

controversy last week i do the chirp podcast with darren millar oh okay yeah and i didn't realize i did not mention his name in my book oh he's got to be sour and he asked me if i was in the book if he was in the book and if he was in the book, and I had the book next to me, and I looked it up, and I went to the index. No Darren Millard mentioned in the damn book. And I said to him, Darren, I feel terrible about it, but I didn't mention my brother and sister either.

Yeah, that's good then. You're fine. So he's like family. So I thought it was okay. So just tell him you're like family. I got to ask you, Mac, is,

is we watched the whole saga unfold with Chicago Blackhawks and Corey Perry. You know, was there anything that could have been done differently to avoid that, that internet circus or, or not? It's just too big of a beast. Look, I didn't like it. I really didn't. I thought, you know, I don't know what happened,

but after what has transpired in Chicago the last, you know, obviously in the last couple of years, you have to be 100% prepared to go. And the fact that it went for two, three, four days where teammates were saying, we don't know what's going on. Luke Richardson was saying, I don't know what's going on. And then it starts to affect a teammate,

a kid on their team. I didn't like it, how it went for a couple more days over that so you've got to be ahead of that you've got to be out in front of that and move on it quickly and look maybe they didn't have enough information but i didn't like it i thought it was again i didn't think they they handled it well. And that's just my own opinion. And when it starts to affect your dressing room, I mean, it was ugly, guys. It was ugly how it transpired through the rumor mill. And that's the last thing they need. When you ran a team, obviously you have your people that you trust

in your pr department but is is there was there ever an opportunity where you could outsource something for damage control or you lean towards the league um what is the protocol mac is there one well the only protocol i had was the game the night before our home opener in Columbus. I was already dealing with the mascot quitting. Remember I told you that? Yeah, some really heavy stuff. Yeah, but I was barbecuing the night before the home opener out in the backyard.

I get a call from Lyle Odelein, my captain, before our first inaugural game. And Lyle says, Doug, it's Lyle. I said, yeah, Lyle, I know who it is. He said, I just got charged with impaired driving. I said, the night before our home opener, you just got charged with impaired driving? And how did I stay ahead of it? I had our lawyer contact the community where he was charged,

and we tried to make sure it was out in the suburbs, and boom, boom, boom. And when I get fired, Aaron Portsline reported it and said, oh, I see Lyle O'Line was charged with a bad driving. I said, you were six years late on that one, Aaron. Sorry, buddy. So anyway, sometimes you've got to do whatever it takes. I know the world's changed since then,

but the first thought is you try to keep stuff in-house and try to bury stories. Is that still the first instinct out there? I think you don't try to bury it because you get in trouble. I think it's more you do what you can legally. I always went to our legal counsel and said, and our PR guys, OK, where are we with this? How do we solve this? And I had, guys, I had a ton of issues that I could never repeat. Like it was scary what you faced over, you know, a course of 10 years in one place.

You know, it was unbelievable. But you do it legally, you do it with your in-house people, and you try to handle it and get in front of it. And I know sometimes, and look, I don't know what really went on in Chicago. I don't know the circumstances. I just didn't like how players were constantly put on the spot, teammates were, coaches were, and then all of a sudden,

what was it, three days, four days later, it finally came out. Even Kyle Davidson, I mean, sitting there by himself trying to handle this story, there's parts of me that said I felt sorry for him yeah like this is a young gm in the league with with limited experience but the amount that that organization has talked about you know how to handle difficult challenging situations i would have thought the media department the hockey department would have thought the media department, the hockey department would have come a lot quicker on that.

Look, how long does it take to suspend a guy? I don't know. I guess, you know, I don't know. But just the way it was said, he's left the team. He's not with the team. And then all of a sudden, every media person in North America was checking this out. So unfortunate for everybody. It really is.

Do you think less stuff happens today than it did, I don't know, 10, 20 years ago? Do you think that the level of commitment it takes now to make the NHL, maybe it's an even higher level? Do you think players are on better behavior than they used to be? Or do you think there's still, if you're in a place for 10 years, you deal with endless problems over the years? I would say you deal with endless problems. I really do.

I think I know the players are in terrific shape. They train, they probably, but there's still a lot of problems to deal with. There's still a lot of fires to put out. And, you know, it was some amazing challenges, to be quite honest. And I actually had to trade a couple of guys because it got so bad.

And, you know, it wasn't that was not a fun part of the job, to say the least. Aren't you happy when you walk down the beach or get into your RV or your Porsche that you don't have to deal with this crap anymore? I do, but I kind of miss the paycheck. So got you where you are today. But you know what? I sort of, you know, you live with when you see certain situations happening. Like, I've always really liked Corey Perry. He's had a wonderful career.

I hate to see this end for Corey like that. You know, the Blackhawks have been through a lot you hate to see that you hate it to see teammates being dragged through the mud families it was it was an awful guys I have not seen many situations that rumors spread like that one spread i've never seen that guys in all my time in the nhl that it was ever that bad yeah um yeah let's just hope that uh there can be some healing process uh all the way around here exactly in in the near future you know you guys are pissing me off i came here on this show to try to be positive. I'm trying to radiate positivity and you

keep throwing negative things at me and I'm having a hard time dealing with it. I gotta be honest with you. We got you on a Zoom call and I'm looking at your shirt and that's the biggest radiant I'm getting right now. Either you're getting ready for bed or you're going clubbing. I can't

make out that shirt right now great shirt it is a great shirt and i'm you know what uh we're going to uh with friends we're going to labialetta we had an intense pickleball game this afternoon with our neighbors uh they're coming over for drinks at uh 5 30 uh five five minutes from now, by the way. And we're going to have cocktails, and then we're going to Labioletta, a great Italian place, and just try to relax after a very stressful pickleball afternoon. And this morning,

I walked the beach. I'm sort of, I'm just ready for an easy night. Sorry to keep you from the early bird special, Doug. I know it's 5.22 already. And the name of the restaurant is Peter Labioletta? It's his wife's place, Doug. I know it's 522 already. And the name of the restaurant is Peter Lavio... It's his wife's place, yeah. Lavio Lettuce.

Yeah, great spot. It's a great old Italian... You'd like it. An old Italian-style place. You'd really enjoy it. If you guys ever get down here, I'll take you there. All right. I think SN's budget will bring us there. I'm sure they'll send us to visit. And they'll give us three drink coupons each.

You know what? Here. Tell Sam I will not put in for the pay for this show for a month. And then we'll treat you guys for dinner. It's a deal. All right, Mac. Thanks for doing this, man. Thanks, Mac. Thanks for having me, guys. I really appreciate it.

Yes, yes. Doug McClain, world-renowned author. Nine weeks, bestseller. I went and hung out with, went to a golf course, saw Scott Morrison tell some stories, the co-author with him. Yes. Talked to Scott about the writing process with Doug. Yeah.

Scott's a great guy. So it was nice to spend some time with him. What do you need? Another year or two before you write a book? A book? I can't write a lineup. You know that. I screw up every day. I can't write a lineup. I don't know why.

I honestly don't know why I'm here. Good luck, pal. We'll figure it out eventually. I can't write a lineup. I don't know why. I honestly don't know why I'm here. Good luck, pal. You know what? We'll figure it out eventually. Yeah, that's funny. Hey, there's some breaking news from the Devils that Dougie Hamilton had surgery today on a torn pec. So he's out a really long time.

Ay, ay, ay. They've caught some bad injury bug breaks, eh? Yeah. They're fortunate Luke Hughes didn't get hurt after he got absolutely turned into powder by Garnett Hathaway. Do you want to talk about that now, or do you want to do game time? Go to game time, and then we'll take a break. I'm taking charge here because you're bad on this.

I'm reading my lineup here to see if I can read my writing. I'm just going to put together my lineups and put it as my memoirs. Sounds good. It's game time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

Now yesterday, fellas, I checked in on the Otani watch. Ooh. So this weekend, apparently it's supposed to be heating up here. This weekend, Jeff Passman wrote an article today. I'm not sure if you saw the figures being thrown around, Kipper.

I know you'll love this. 600? 600 mil was the number. Between 500. So he's getting a billion Canadian. I know that math is not quite correct, but we're getting there. So the updated odds now are the LA Dodgers are minus 125, and the Toronto Blue Jays are plus 250. Ooh, their odds are getting better.

Plus 300 yesterday. And the Cubs are the closest at 8-1. So it's a pretty clear line here that it's come down to the Toronto Blue Jays and the Los Angeles Dodgers for who ends up with Shohei Otani's services for next season. Really rich people never choose Los Angeles. It kind of coincides with... Did you see the traffic there? We don't have traffic here.

It's fine. The Bo rumors about Chicago. Bichette. Yes. Greatest Chicago. Yeah, didn't you hear those last week? I saw that they were like, if Shohei happened, then something else would have to happen.

I think you should just keep your good players. That's a nice idea. There's no cap. Just keep them all and bring more guys in. Yeah, no. That's not the way they think. If they're going to go spend 600 sheets, they probably got to get rid

of Vladdy or Bo, one of them. And I know who I'd choose. Not to get too down the weeds of baseball takes or Bo, one of them. And I know who I'd choose. Not to get too down the weeds of baseball takes here, but I'll tell you right now who I'd choose. $600 million? What are we talking about here? That is a lot of money. And, I mean, let me put my little Zag hat on here quickly.

We sure don't want to give a guy who's a 30-year-old who has a wonky arm $600 million? It's a reasonable Zag reasonable zag thank you would that be over he's not 10 years 11 years for sure i mean they would the max amount of dollars in the max amount of time is otani like the most and the most so he's looking at 60 times 10 probably yeah pretty good and i mean the record signing was his old teammate, Mike Trout, which I think was 450. That goes down as, like, well, the contract alone is, like, the biggest in history. But, like, there's no, like, for a Canadian story.

There's nothing close. Like, well, Gretzky would just. Everyone's like, Gretzky's in the late 80s, I'm sorry, at 15 million cash. Like, it's wild. It's wild. Absolutely wild. I'll never forget being at the Fitness Institute

and hearing about Gretzky being traded, and my jaw just dropped. Yeah. So I think a worthwhile, and my boy Gunnar on the morning show was texting me about this, that the only closest thing for Toronto would be Tavares. Because Tavares signing here was a massive deal.

But to have singular in Toronto, that's a huge deal. But this is a worldwide story. If Shohei Ohtani signs here, it's a countrywide story. It's a worldwide story. That's hard to say. So there you go.

So just keep an eye on that. I think the math isn't as bad as people think if you're going to go spend. In terms of would you get your money back? Yeah. Well, just what you can generate with it. Well, you know, the global brand thing is key, but what if he is just okay? What if he's good?

What if he's just like pretty good over that time? Don't you need him to be the best person on earth for like at least half the time? He needs to be the greatest baseballman that's ever lived. Yeah, and he may be. Robita Island. That's how it works. That's a pretty palatial island. What is the insurance on a contract?

With everybody else, the Lou Lamorello said. Find a way. All right. Get him off the books. LTIR. Yes. The insurance company's like, sorry, what? So I just want to quickly put in one more thing here, a future, the Jack Adam Award.

I just check all these before we go into this. Peter Laviolette has moved all the way up to second at plus 750 for the New York Rangers, which makes a lot of sense because they're humming and behind talking. Talking is still five to one as the favorite, but I'm sure they will.

You can't string losses and stay atop. I'm sure they'll adjust that accordingly because yeah, they're heading in separate directions. Those two teams and that was game time presented by bet 365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet

365 must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Okay, Sammy. 600 million. Be a producer now. Are we going to break? Yeah, 600 million.

Yeah. Yeah, let's go to break. Okay. We got some texts. A 590, 590. Please write us in. The first text I will read. No one is worth 600 million.

What a joke from jason i think it's fair i think it is i'm gonna contradict that after the break okay uh jari scores a goal yeah we actually have tons of you mentioned uh hathaway and his big hit last night in Philadelphia. And Tortorella had a few things to say about that, didn't he? How about Konechny went after Smith, who slashed him. Okay, so. Lots of things.

Plenty of meat on the bone here. Still on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Do not go away. We'll be right back. Covering the Raptors in depth like no one else. The Raptors Show with Will Liu one else the Raptors show with Will Lou subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts Always nice to leave it to Doug McClain to drive our show off a cliff every once in a while. And got to feel a little bit for Lyle Oatline, who's just somewhere minding his own business.

And Doug wants to tell everybody that the night before. You're doing it again. You're doubling down. Maybe we forgot. I can only imagine now Lyle sitting at home somewhere enjoying his night. And either he's getting a text or maybe it's a loved one going up and saying you know you got a drinking and driving charge the night before a season opener and he's like that was 25 years ago leave me alone uh oh by the way i fought that guy one night in oh washington yeah and i had to like

soak my head in a bucket for three days straight after that he was a tough player holy really really tough yeah he uh spent some time in the sim bin over his career yes he did 2316 minutes all right where do we want to start tristan jari scores a goal is that a big deal it is Yeah. I think it is. It is. It's cool. You see it a lot in lower leagues. You see it in junior and the AHL. You see these grainy potato videos of it. But when it has...

It's similar though. You grab it, you put it down, you fire it down. I watched every single one. There's 17 in NHL history and I watched them all today. There's a shocking amount where teams shoot it in their own net. Yeah, the last touch is the goalie, right? Yeah.

And so to cleanly do it like that. Listen, before there was Ron Hextall, there would still be goalies wanting to do that, right? No one could ever do it. Ron Hextall, actually it was Tom Barrasso. And I hate saying the word goaded tom barasso was the first guy he's not on the list is he barasso tom barasso he has one and empty no i'm asking he's not on the list so no he doesn't have one no but he was the very best

it was almost non-existent that the goalies handled the puck until this guy came out of high school. And then like Turco and Broder and these guys. And then Hextall. Yeah. And then Hextall. And Hextall had the curved wooden stick too. So these are the list of the goalies that have actually scored a goal. Okay.

Because there's, like they said, there was the ones that the last touch. Ron Hextall has two. Yeah. Which is badass. His, by the way are unbelievable one of them the rapid is going 100 miles an hour he gets behind knocks it down fire it's sick uh osgood yeah verdure yeah jose feodor the worst one ever of gunny debakov mike smith pecorine linus olmark which was last year and tristan jari jari's might be the cleanest the theodore one i

make fun of only because his was the only one on the backhand. He just two mitts shoveled it up in the sky and it trickled down there. But he, like that was a borderline toe drag from Jari. Yeah, he ripped it. He shot it, I can tell you, because I had AWS edge data. It was like 55.8 miles per hour

or something. He ripped it. I just think that when you are a goaltender in the best hockey league in the world and you score a goal, that one of the most badass things that can happen it's i think it's amazing yes but you don't care no it's fine it's highly skilled play i i get it i'll watch it it does nothing for you it just does nothing for me it's like little for me. Oh, really? It's something. But I would tell you, though, if I was on the Pittsburgh Penguins right now, and I'm Raquel, and Jari has one more goal than me, that would really, really bother me. Oh, yeah, that's a tough one.

Raquel's got like a 30-goal year, doesn't he? I thought he was good. Who else is on that list? I thought he was good. Who else is on that list? On his team? Yeah. There's a few guys spotting goose eggs. Yeah, I would be hammering them if I was Jari.

Oh, that one is getting mentioned every day. I'd be like, listen, you've got way more TOI than I do. And the team they beat last night, Tampa, they're looking hot. I know. They're super so hot and cold. Third in a row they beat last night, Tampa, they're looking so hot. I know. Third was not happy. Third in a row. Hot and cold. Third in a row they lost last night. You don't know what to make of them.

That Kucherov turnover at the blue line on Crosby's goal, you sent us that clip. You live and die with Kuch. You mostly live, but sometimes you die hard. And how about Sid's goal? Just walks in, takes two steps over the blue line,

just bar down. God, he's so good. Good hockey man. We mentioned Hathaway smoking Luke Hughes. Yeah. Now he relaxed. He thought he was getting a whistle. Thought it was exit.

And he doesn't. Are you looking it up? I was looking it up too. That prompted John Tortorella to talk about bigger picture stuff on how guys are now too relaxed. Tort says, I'm glad the kid, Luke Hughes,

isn't hurt. A really good player, young man in this league, but there's a problem in our league right now. Our players in this league do not put enough emphasis on making sure you're protecting yourself from hits like that. Make sure you absorb hits like that. We've kind of tried to turn this league into a no-hit league most people aren't ready to be hit i think it's a lost art in how you take

hits i do think looking at the clip i think hughes thinks it's icing a mistake was made we've got good refs we got good linesmen mistake was made last night and what bothers me is we had to suffer for that mistake losing a player but i believe the league it's a no-go there's nothing wrong with that play it shouldn't even have been a penalty it screams to the athletes in our game uh be prepared to be hit because big hits are allowed nowadays i'm so sure because everyone puts their arms up when there's a big hit it makes me sick what goes on in the league here with big hits that's part of the game he goes on to say he hates when people have to fight because of big hits and the league you know players today are not prepared to be hit torts must listen to our show yeah this has been

our take for every year we've done this show is that guys just don't expect it anymore and wow put me in the camp of being disgusted that was a major look at these kids from the moment they step on the ice as a six or seven year old and the emphasis on skill and the development of skill skill skill skill i where would receiving a body check be and it's not even like you you can't even practice like you can practice of course contact but you don't get that same you can't repeat it what you get out of a game in those situations and i don't know maybe we just over skilled them and we didn't go back to the basics of what hockey is and ultimately it's a contact sport until it isn't a contact sport well i.e minor hockey i've gone to a few minor hockey games this year like junior hockey you've You've gone and seen the attack play. You've gone and seen the generals play.

It's really the physicality of the game. By the time we're all 10 years older than we are now, the game's going to look different. Because even at the minor hockey level, junior hockey level, hitting is such less of an emphasis. And I'm not saying I like this. I'm saying, in fact, I hate it. But the way the game has changed in terms of what they do to it,

like that's not the skill, skill, skill. That's the emphasis. Yeah. And the training and everything, like you said, and you see that. But every once in a while, you get a guy that can do it really well, like Shuba, and he could end your career. But it's interesting that I think almost at the NHL level,

once it becomes all the players who have been the cream of the crop and all the skill stuff get there, at the end of of the day the physical teams still have a great advantage and you're trying to learn to play that style it's still hockey at that level in front of 20 000 people and that's tough if i had my 17 goal 325 penalty minutes season you have 325 penalty minutes in a season what would that have been worth on at UFA you're an 8 million dollar guy that's like Tom Wilson

I don't know where I'd spend it first not doing a radio show with me is my guess not 600 million but you had 325 penalty minutes and 75 games and scored 17. Did you give 35 minutes of ice time every night? How'd you have time?

How'd you have time? Straight lines to the net, baby. Straight lines to the box. Oh, my God. 325 is absurd, Kiffy. It's goofy. That's absurd. Anyways, I love that hit by Hathaway, and I love Hathaway,

and that's a guy I wish the Leafs had really gone hard after. He's like the perfect fourth finder to me. Because he can fly. By the way, Hughes takes that punishing blow. Then scores a jack to Luke Hughes OT winner. Same game. Awesome. Sally, too, in the overtime.

Credit to him. The bow? Oh, no, he didn't do the bow. Yeah, I love that. Think about the emotion, too. It's one thing, like your teammate, but then your brother as well. That's so cool. I mean, scoring the OT winner. Watching your brother get turned into again powder is not great but yeah could

pull up mike keenan and say listen you start playing better or so i'm gonna trade your brother that's what he did with the twins ron and rich sutter play better trade your brother yeah that's a hell of a line. It's a great line. You know, not to bring up my beloved hometown, but Anthony Stewart once told me that there was a saying in junior hockey that F around and it'll send you to the sound. Oh, yeah.

So I've heard something like that before. Out West, the joke was always, well, you'll get traded to Flin Flon, which seemed like nowheresville out West. You've been to Flin Flon, which seemed like nowheresville out west. You've been to Flin Flon? Never been. No. You got any techs for us? Oh, you want to go straight to that?

I don't know. What else you got? How about the slash? Connecting, chasing down Brandon Smith and gets baseball batted in the arm. Two-game suspension for slashing like two days after Truba hit Frederick's head deep over the left field wall. That's when he got two games? He got two games. Two games, yeah. That was a

pretty good whack. Whacked him. You know, Konechny's a pest. He's a pain in the butt, but you just can't swing your stick like a baseball bat. Well, you can if you're a Trouba. That still remains a little baffling. I'm sure they were discussing the factors that went into it

to make it look worse than it was, but you still hit a guy in the head. At the end of the day, you can talk yourself into anything or talk yourself out of anything. But that one optically was not good for the NHL. Do they still do those breakdown videos? Remember those videos? Yeah, very well. Do they still do that?

They don't come across my feed if they do because if you were gonna sell i don't think they do because if you're gonna sell the truba one it's intent that they didn't think he was trying to do it for sure and it was just like it was a weird motion yeah he's pulling his arm free it's pretty clear to sell intent on smith yeah he was trying to break his arm the thing with the smith one is, that's the play where if it skips off his shoulder pad, you're, you know, Brashear and McSorley. Like, it's a dangerous play. 100%.

I do have some texts. You guys ready? I think I'm ready. Kippy? I'm never really ready, but we'll give it a try anyways. How crucial do you think this season is for the Canucks to get Pedersen re-signed and commit long-term? If the season goes downhill, what's the price to trade him in your opinion well first of all he's got

one more year he's eligible to sign july 1st but he has one more year and he's got a qo of eight million or something it's really not much of a different conversation than probably lee fans had with willie neilander um And here we are going into Christmas, and he's not signed, but we'd all be really surprised if he's not a Toronto Maple Leaf this time next year. So the best thing that happened to the Vancouver Canucks was the great start and the real feeling

of we've got something special going on. They just traded for a defenseman that should add a lot of depth. So, I don't know. Petey, where do you want to go? Yeah, you know, the fact that he's an RFA after this season, I'm not very nervous for Canucks fans. They have control over him, and he is a very good player, and they'll give him money.

You don't lose players like him in his prime. They're going to keep him. Yeah. Not that worried about him. He's really good, but Doug's right. Watched a bit of that Vegas Gold Knights Canucks game last night before my little eyes got too heavy. They were getting schooled.

I felt pretty comfortable going to bed. I saw people tweeting before the game, like Rick Tockett had talked about how the result doesn't matter, but you want to use this as a measuring stick performance wise. You know, you want to hang in with them. And I would say that if that is your metric, you would not be very happy with how that game went because the performance was not

pretty. What's your expectations of Patty Kane in Detroit? Do you think he will be a big factor for them or just a run-of-the-mill guy i think if he's healthy and he's got the range of motion that he claims he has then there's just not a world i live in where he won't be successful i think they probably have somewhere around 55 to 60 games left i think he can be he can get 40 points for them

being an effective top six guy on the power play i don't know he's going to move the needle much in terms of possession and where they play and how they hang with the big teams there's a lot of teams that bet against him they weren't willing to give him multi-years. They weren't prepared to pay him north of $3 million. So, I don't know. Do they know something we don't about this type of surgery or just the track record alone of

other players that have not been successful? I've heard that the surgery is improved since some of those names on the list got it. Don't worry about me. Is Samsonov expendable now with the way Joseph Wall is playing? No. Is Martin Jones still a viable backup option to Wall?

No. Free up some cap space. Stop it. No. Stop it. No. Okay. Okay then, boys.

No, he's just, you know, Wall is playing well. Samsonov is a 26-year-old with lots of NHL experience who can play well. Over the last 10 years or so, who's the Leaf player that got away that hurts the most? So who they didn't resign and found success elsewhere? Thinking McCann, Rask, Dursey, Moore, etc. I'm going to do you one better. From my time with the Marlies,

there's an AHL player who is pretty effective. They made a two-year, $1 million per year offer to Yanni Gord. Really? And Gord chose Tampa, I think, at the same amount. Really? He was using the Leafs for leverage to get a second year, I think. He was Seattle's best guy last night by far. You're talking about?

Who got away from the Leafs that could have made it? In the last 10 years. Jared McCann kind of snuck away. But who else? Carter Verhage was drafted here. You know who comes to mind for me? You're going to say Marchman. No.

Oh, okay. That was a good one, too. Good one. Trevor Moore. Okay. Yeah. He's killing it. He's leading the Kings in goals.

How about... What was... Revisit it for me. Kyle Clifford and Jack Campbell for Trevor Moore. You know who's underrated? That is looking like a complete disaster. So Moore has 11 goals. Carl Grundstrom has seven goals for L.A. this year.

That was a different trade. That was the lesson trade. Yeah, different trade. But he has seven goals playing on their third or fourth line. He runs into everything. So what did Trevor Moore resign for? He signed for quite a long time, didn't he? I know.

We kind of bristled at it. Trevor Moore, cap friendly quickly. But would you trade right now... Oh, boy. ...Tyler Bertuzzi for Trevor Moore if you're L.A.? Oh, my God. I would take Bertuzzi for Trevor Moore, if you're L.A. Oh, my God. I would take Bertuzzi 10 times out of 10. I don't think they would.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. You're out of your mind. I mean. You like more a lot, huh? I like more, too. I just, from the first 20 games of the season, I'd say I like Trevor Moore better. He is 19 points in 20 games this year, 11 goals so far. What does he make?

4.2 million until 27.5. So that's what I'm factoring into. Yeah. Okay, that's a big deal to me. If I could take a million and a half and put it somewhere else, I'd take trevor moore only push back on that is when you look at the way the leafs are more is more of the same more of the same he doesn't want doesn't want that smoke he doesn't he doesn't want to go you know you you want them to punch some people in the face he doesn't want to do that and

to your point i'm not sure trevor moore is a guy that could run shotgun all season long with Austin. Yeah. But cheaper is good. Very effective player. To me, it's Dersie. Dersie? Dersie, yeah. He's an Owen Sound guy.

But he's a right shot guy who is offensive, can run a power play, young. Wasn't it you that was talking about it was between him and Lilligren? They offered Lilligren their choice. Yeah. And they chose Ders him and Lilligren? They offered Lilligren their choice. Yeah. And they chose Jersey over Lilligren. So we were just talking about Pat Quinn or Pat Quinn. Pat Quinn. It's Friday.

I love Pat Quinn. Leave me alone. Yeah. Pat Kane and his ability to come back. What about this Aaron Rodgers now? Does this guy love the spotlight? Like all of a sudden he's going reinvent the achilles tendon tear yeah these qbs best these qbs are in the limelight for so long and there's so much talk about them think

of tom brady think of peyton manning think of aaron rogers these guys have just been everyone talks with them all the time and aaron rogers tears his Achilles on the first drive, and he's petrified that he's not going to be talked about at all this year. And he goes on Pat McAfee every week. Egomaniac. And he talks about how he's going to be back. He's just not. So we can stop. Apparently he's reinvented a way to put two tendons back together

and everybody else, idiots, because they're not drinking bone broth. Yeah. Listen, I'm... I can't stand it. I'm a Jets fan. I am not an Aaron Rodgers guy, man. Probably better than Zach Wilson, though. Well, you might be.

Yeah, that's true. All right, our thanks to Bob Beers, the radio analyst for the Boston Bruins. And as always on Fridays, never disappointing, Doug McClain. Radiator himself. Give me a thought on Leafs and Boston Saturday night. Bruins 3-1. Leafs play really great and make us all feel like, oh, they're back.

I think Joseph Wall steals one. Yeah, me too. Okay, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks for always joining us on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show.