Real Kyper & Bourne - Dubas and Treliving's Big Calls

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open the show with NHL on Sportsnet's Colby Armstrong, who gives his take on Kyle Dubas moving to Pittsburgh, whether they will rebuild or retool within, who will be hired their GM and the idea of Auston Matthews coming back to Toronto. Next up, the guys are joined by former NHL President, GM and head coach Doug Maclean and gives his take on what Brad Treliving needs to do to secure Auston Matthews, what would be a reasonable contract for him and the Leafs' head coaching situation. Finally, the guys wrap up with a brief look at this weekend's Stanley Cup Finals between the Florida Panthers and the Vegas Golden Knights.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.  

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. And it's Off the Rails Friday, Summer Edition. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandale, Jen Rolnick, and our trusted producer, Sammy McKee. Any press conferences lately? No. Will they have a press conference when Brad Tree living books his flight to Arizona? Probably.

They'll have it set up outside the, was it the Whistle Rock Golf Course? Is that what it's called there? John Rom course? Like a big one. Anyways. What does that look like when he gets there? Like, I was thinking about this. Like, they go to dinner, I guess.

Like, you just hang out all day. Like, you go to dinner, and then he just hang out all day like you you go to dinner and then he just goes what what do you what do you want did you watch uh on on prime uh air it's the story of no but i want to michael jordan and nike yeah so it's from nike shoe dog nike absolutely sucks they're like not even on the map compared to Converse and Adidas. And then there's that Matt Damon character who has the biggest set of you know what to go right to the house of Michael Jordan. Yeah. Where his mom and dad are.

Yeah. And that was like offside back then. You don't do that. You don't do it with an agent like David Falk. Was that the big agent? Yeah. You don't do that. He did it anyways. That's Brad tree living.

Just showing off. That Matt Damon's really brave. Quickly. It's a great story by the way. you have to watch it it is phenomenal i know we don't cover a ton of junior hockey on this show oh boy but and it's you know the competitor took over the rights for the chl and the memorial cup but last night uh was a vintage uh memorial cup game between the peets and the camp blues camels blazers for one comeback for the peterborough peets i know we blues camels blazers 4-1 comeback for the

peterborough peets i know we have a lot of people that'll be listening in the peterborough area they'll be really fired up about that game massive hit by chase stillman followed by a incredible fight he's firing up the crowd to come back from 4-1 down and my beloved ohl still alive in the memorial cup so really proud of the peets go peets go. So you get that. You saw the hit. Oh my God. And what'd you think? Loved it. Suspension.

No, cause they, they were going to, they reviewed it. They did the kind of the thing where they reviewed the major. They made it a major so they could review it. They reviewed it. Clean hit.

He didn't get a penalty. The Pete's end up on the power play. Sorry. One more for you. Stillman. Stillman. Yeah. First round pick of the New Jersey devils.

He punched that fella right in this region hard two times with his fist i noticed it was quite a fight it was uh junior hockey they've really ironed out the fighting doesn't happen a whole lot no four-hour games like when i was a kid but yeah now that was a that was a big boy new jersey fans must have gotten a lot more excited about their pick i would say that would say. I'm surprised to hear you root for the Peets or the OHL, whatever. Like, I'm a Kelowna boy, you know, raised there. And Kamloops would have been a team that the Rockets would have loathed. Yeah.

I root for the OHL always in the Memorial Cup unless it's the London Knights. Are you the same way with the Leafs when they get knocked down the Canadian team? I was going to say, it's a little bit like rooting for the Canadian team. It's a league. It's a league. I take pride in Ontario and OHL being the best junior hockey league in the world. If Montreal went on to play the winner of the KHL, would you root for Montreal? That's a great question.

I want to know, is it consistent with the NHL? No, I would not. Maybe. That'd be a tough one. Why? Why is it a question mark, but you don't have the same philosophy for the O? Well, the O is I've watched O.H.L. Hockey. I'm from Ontario.

I take pride in this league. The best players come to the Ontario area. You follow the NHL and you take pride in blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but it's not all Ontario. Oh, come on. Magnetiscork is going up against some people you know. You're rooting for the people you know. Yeah, you're probably right.

They're the bad guys at that point. All right, we got a double dose of Off the Rails Friday. Colby Armstrong is going to join us momentarily former nhler uh co-host of chicklets game notes and he's in pittsburgh works uh covering games for the penguins want to get his thoughts on kyle dubas coming in yeah i missed yesterday that he said he was going to hire a progressive GM. Yes. Which fits in the framework of the Fenway group. Yeah.

But also kind of limits his broad range of potential general managers sure does you know like i it's right up there with uh has to speak french well and is like is brandon pridham progressive like he's a generic white guy who's been in nhl front offices for 20 years who's who's progressive then all right let's welcome in numbers colby armstrong NHLer and included the Pittsburgh Penguins, where they just named Kyle Dubas president of hockey ops. Colbs, what's going on, big guy? What's up, boys? So I've started this new thing.

I'm playing tennis here the last few weeks. Not a big country club guy. I'm trying to get exercise in, so I've got a little crew of guys together. I'm starting to get okay at tennis. It gets me moving. You know how hot it is out right now. It's hot here as well.

I was cooking out there. I just finished up a little while ago. Things are going okay, boys. Are you closer to that age where it's pickleball and not tennis? It's a lot of stops and starts in tennis, Colby. Boys, I got to tell you this. There's like, I go out of this park here. It's called North Park. It's, it's, you know, there's, there's, there's courts all over the place. So in the morning when I go, there's,

there's like a massive pickleball club. I tried to weasel in on one of the courts one day and I'm telling you, in the morning when I go, there's like a massive pickleball club. I tried to weasel in on one of the courts one day, and I'm telling you, it's like its own world of hierarchy and like what you're allowed to do, what you're not allowed to do. These pickleball people are crazy. They're crazy. So I stick to tennis.

It gets me moving a lot more. I suck, so I got to run all over the place, which has been good. All right. All right. So is his line clean here, Sammy, or should we try to get him again? What do you think? Am I brutal? He's hanging on. Okay, he's hanging on.

All right. All right, Colts. Let's get right into it, man. Kyle Dubas, what do you think? Well, I just think, did anyone see that coming? I guess my thoughts are both people got what they wanted, really, right? Like, I think Dubas wanted more control and autonomy of decisions and what's going to happen.

And I think it's been rumored a long time. Like, I think, you know, Jeff Merrick and Elliot had it a long time that there was a connection between Fenway and Dubas. So I think both people, you know, both people got what they wanted in regards to, you know, what they're going to do here. I do think on the presidency side for him, I think more forward thinking. So personally living here, too, I think the Penguins are like a hidden gem, marquee, you know, legit team to come to, I think, for players.

I think they love their sports here. It's not a big center, but, like, you get treated really well. But I also think, like, it could go a little further in regards to how their hockey department is built out. I think Kyle has a real forward-thinking, progressive mind with how that's going to operate from analytics. I know they have it here, but I know it probably could be bigger and better with Fenway. So I think his mind coming in and how he wants to do that

could really benefit the hockey department here for the Penguins. But with regards to both parties getting what they wanted, I think it's a good decision. I didn't see that coming. I thought it was going to be like just a GM position. I wasn't sure they were going to go back to, like, having a president of hockey operations. Again, they never really had that here until Berkey kind of came in

and took that role. So I thought they would just go back to having a GMkey kind of came in and took that role so I thought they would just go back to having a GM and kind of run it as is and and instead it's gone the other way so we'll see what happens we'll see who Kyle hires I thought I thought his press conference was really good yesterday as well um so yeah I think this summer is obviously a big summer and he's got to hit the ground running because there's tons of decisions to be made here do you think there's anything I don't want to say fishy but like uh anything relevant to the idea that he said he's got to hit the ground running because there's tons of decisions to be made here. Do you think there's anything, I don't want to say fishy, but like, anything relevant to the idea that he said he's going to not hire a GM

until July. Like he is going to be the guy through the draft and the start of free agency. That seems to be purposeful in some way. Like he's waiting for something. What are your thoughts about what's going to happen with that GM position? Yeah. Like he's waiting for something. What are your thoughts about what's going to happen with that GM position? Yeah, well, I think he strapped himself with the interim tag yesterday at the press conference.

And I know they've been interviewing, right? Like we've seen candidates come in and candidates come out of the running for it. And I guess he wants to be the guy to hire his guys. So obviously he's been a GM for a number of years. He can handle this and come in and take control. I'm curious to see who the guy is going to be that he decides to pick. So he gets control. He's taken over the hockey department, and he wants to have the final say.

So he'll, I guess, do the interview process and bring in the people that he wants. And he's looking for someone that can, you know, kind of see where his weaknesses are. So I'll be curious to see who that person would be with regards to the GM. Okay, Coles, we're going to give you a ring right back here as Sammy finds you a better tin can

with a thicker piece of string between us. It's been a while. Yeah, listen, you've been on a heck of a roll. Congratulations. It's been a while. But Colby, didn't he drop like six times last time we had him? Was he the record holder? No, Kevin Kurz was.

What would Off the Rails Friday be without a dropped sammy call such a hard gig that he's on the hook for the randomness of cell phones in the u.s but it's you know part of the role it is part of the role no it's not yeah yeah it is a gm right now for me a kyle dubas gm right now for me could be anyone from anywhere that's helpful which means they could pluck them like fenway group has what uh they got liverpool they're gonna hire something like ralph kruger out of the south hampton they could get a number of bean counters from any sport to kind of pluck in whatever data as a general manager for him all right colbs you ready come back sorry boys no problem about that

we're just discussing a potential general managers and whether or not it will be a an analytic guy for maybe even the fenway group that might be with the boston red socks or from another sport do you anticipate a guy that but when it's all said and done would feel like maybe a jimmy rutherford patrick alveen situation where if it looks like a general manager, it lends towards Jimmy Rutherford and not Patrick. Yeah, I kind of feel that. I mean, I don't know. Like, I think who's the names that were kind of left, you know, hanging right now

from what we heard was Darsh, I think Botterill, and what's the fella that was in arizona as well the younger guys there so those were kind of the names chica yeah chica so those were kind of the names that were kind of left at the end that we that we had so i'll be interested to see who who you know who can come in there and you know what their what their internal role will actually be. I could see it being that with Kyle at the helm and as president and running show and what he's looking for and what he wants to have here. So, yeah, I'm not sure.

And while this dragged on, right, because I think they gave him the weekend to make his decision and then it was obviously a long weekend down here and then it was Wednesday and then it was like, what's going on here? So I was like leaning. I was like,'s what's going on here so i was i was like leaning i was like what's he getting maybe he's just getting a job with fenway maybe he's maybe kyle getting it like a like he's going to be in the on the baseball side and kind of

overseeing like a you know maybe a few sports i i don't know i don't know what they were looking for but you know to finally get somebody in here and hit the ground running i think is obviously important for the Penguins. And then Fenway, look, they came in. Hextall and Burke were already here in place. So they got the guy that they kind of wanted. It just kind of worked out timing-wise that that happened. But the last week or so with the decisions that had to be made

and kind of the loose timetable had, you know, sports media here in Pittsburgh kind of going a little crazy. But, yeah, like I media here in Pittsburgh kind of going a little crazy, but yeah, like I said, like he's coming into a place. So like guys said, you'll agree is going to be so much more comfortable, right? Like the attention, you know, just in general that the Leafs and the scrutiny that the Leafs get under and, you know, rightfully so, right. You wouldn't want one playoff round in five years in your tenure there

building this team. And I think this is probably his best year at, you know, acquiring, you know, those kinds of assets at the deadline and who to bring in and who can be difference makers in your lineup for Kyle. So yeah, for him to kind of get out of that market and get into this market where it's, you know, high end, but just, you know, smaller city, smaller field,

I think will be comfortable for a guy from Sault Ste. Marie, right? Oh, is he from Sault Ste. Marie? That never came up while he was here. Really? The situation here for him as a GM, Colby, was like, hey, you have some great core players can you fill around them to win um and that's kind of exactly what it looks like in pittsburgh what are his challenges in taking over the penguins well i think they've got lots of you know they've got lots of guys up right now and and you know he touched on jari yesterday obviously being pretty

you know big free agent that's you know he going to have to make a decision on and look at him and see where he stands contract-wise and how he's going to get that done or if he wants to. Doing a full evaluation, he said that he likes the top six, and obviously it's going to be one of those things where he's going to have to do much like he did in Toronto in trying to build the depth of the team out properly. Mike Sullivan said today that he wants to get some faster players and play that faster, up-tempo game.

So I think working with Sully and trying to find him players to play the way that he wants that team to play because the last few years after their back-to-back cup wins, you know, he's played a style of game that was just, you know, straight up like north-south style hockey. You have to have legs to do that. I mean, you have to have legs in the NHL now anyway. But just in general, like the type of personnel that he has to have

in his lineup to want to play that way. And that's, you know, with aging core, you know, those are things that I think, you know, Kyle's going to have to look at which players he wants to sign and have back. You've got Dumoulin's up, you've got Zilker's up, Jari's up, just some of those bigger name guys that are there. Carter has one more year. You've got Granlin another couple of years on that trade that they made

that who knows what they're going to do with those guys and that money. And, or if you can trade those guys away to free that up but they've they've got some some money to spend right now it's just how they're going to do it who they're going to decide to bring back and um you know what decisions they're going to make with some of the personnel decisions um you know through the depths of this lineup we're talking to former nhl or colby armstrong covers the Pittsburgh Penguins. We're talking Kyle Dubas, president of hockey operations. The one thing I did get out of Kyle yesterday was that, and I don't know, you tell me, was it more about saying some of the things

that he thinks that many people want to hear? Because I got a real things that he thinks that many people want to hear because I got a real sense that he thinks he can rebuild underneath while still going for it. And we know where the situation is with Malkin and Crosby and Letang, and he talked about that and not betting against them. But, you know, building within underneath and trying to win now, last time I checked, didn't go hand in hand it's either one yeah or the other so you tell me which which way you think this is going to go for a big time

kipper he's going to have his work cut out for him because the penguins um have you know a few draft picks in the first round over the last, you know, handful of seasons, there isn't many guys coming up from, you know, the American league, what, what he can sign and maybe what he can do there may be just as in probably just as important of what he can do with the, with the penguins as well and trying to find guys and like the cupboards are fairly bare here. So he's going to have to really roll up his sleeves and it's got to be big on

the, I think on the trade market. And it's got to be big at the deadline or at free agency and that the draft and what he can swing and what he can do to free things up to find guys because it just, it just, you know, the way that organization is right now, like these guys have run through 16 years straight in the playoffs, Stanley cups. And, you know, Stanley Cups, and they've been an all-in, go-for-it

type of team over the years. Jimmy Rutherford, he was slinging them. He was slinging guys all over the place. He wasn't afraid to get rid of his first-round pick whenever it counted on him. I think when the decision was made last year to whether

Malkin and Letang was coming back, I think that's kind of the mandate, that you have to come in and find a way to make this work with these guys. And, you know, Kyle talked about talking to Sid and finding out his feel on where he's at with this team and what they could do and, you know, his compete level. And I think that's kind of the idea is that, listen, when we got these guys that are still playing pretty decent hockey although aging of course that that

they have to try to find a way to do it now that's going to be that's going to be a big challenge i think for kyle is is you know kind of restructuring this team and finding ways to spend the money that makes sense to build a roster that could compete. Because, you know, he made a good point. He talked about the division. Look at the division. Well, let's look at the division and how good some of these teams are, how much better some of these teams have gotten. New Jersey's there.

You know, Carolina's there. Look at Florida. You look at all these teams and what they're going to have to do to overcome some of these teams that are on the rise. Well, they're kind to have to do to overcome some of these teams that are on the rise. Well, they're kind of stalled out. So it's going to be all hands on deck, I think, in him and getting creative in how he's going to do that to battle through.

Colby, I know you know the Penguins in and out, but they put you on TNT. You know the whole league. You've been up here in Toronto. You've seen this team. So I want to get your thoughts on this austin matthews situation kip wrote about it yesterday i wrote about it today uh should be up on sportsnet.ca shortly but just you know he's got a big decision to make here if he wants to be in toronto long term if he's going to max him out for money if he wants to be in la what are his priorities what are your thoughts on his decision uh you know over the this next month yeah well yeah isn't that isn't

that huge isn't that crazy that's why that like five-year deal is so nuts that he that you know player of his caliber was able to not get you know tied in completely to to the max max term deal so um yeah puts him in a pretty tough spot to try to to get something done like does he like toronto i imagine so does he like playing with the guys he likes like everything we heard at the end of the year even though it was sad times because these guys really love each other and believe in each other so um is that going to be enough to get him to stick around what's up you know what's the price tag going to be enough to get him to stick around? What's up, you know, what's the price tag going to be like when it gets done and how aggressive is, you know, Tree Living going to be and, you know, courting him to stick around

and what the team might look like even, you know, next year. So, yeah, I could see him, you know, me personally, I could see him going to L.A. That's, you know, you look down and you've got Kopitarar aging as well and you know you've got to know you could have matthews i mean it's looking pretty just pretty slick out there in la and and you know country living do enough to get it done with with the team and and have them stick around will be the main question how many years do they get out of them again is it like another five-year deal i could see that happening just the mere fact after six seasons,

a guy like you who's played the game or, you know, a little bit, you hear things here and there that others don't. The mere fact to me that you have to ask that question if he likes it here. I mean, that's... And then insinuating, well, there might be a number that will make me like it here. And all of that's make me like it here. Yeah. All of that.

That's a fact. But it's got to be incredibly concerning for Brad Tree Living that you don't like it here until we give you a number that you like it here. And I get it. I get business. I get money. But I also get these guys sometimes can't have their cake and 82 in terms of the money that you want and our chances of winning well i think you'll find out right i think we'll find out there's no question that that is a hundred percent like how bad

do you want to win you know like i even like you know sid's contract when he signed that years ago and him and Gino signed those big deals. And at the time it was like Kane and cave signed those big deals as those, those big duos. And you know, what kind of percentage it was towards the cap of your team and kind of hitting those marks. And, you know, as the caps risen, you know, now they're looking like pretty good deals. They look like pretty good deals as it went on.

Like, how does that factor into, you know, what you're trying to do and winning and, you know, the team that you want to be on? So I think this will be huge. I think we'll find out where that number's at because there's no question he's going to get massive money. It's just, like, it's going to come down to does he want to be there or not. That'll be the thing. Give me a number that you'd like to see on, say, a three-year deal. If he wants short-term, how high are you willing to go before we let you go? Yeah, what would that be? Jeez.

13? 13.5. Okay. All right. Is that doable? And 14, is 14 a breaker? A deal breaker, 14 times three? Do I hear 14.5, 14.5, can I get 15, 15?

Do I see 15, 15 in the bag? I don't see why you wouldn't on a three-year deal. Like, that sounds pretty good. All right. Well, listen, people still think you're signing a 16-go deal? Like that sounds pretty good. All right. Well, listen, uh, people still think you're signing a 60 goal score MVP type of guy. I know it was an underwhelming year for him, but I'm sure Judd,

his agent's going to be trying to sign the MVP 60 goal score. Oh, Judd will be all over me. Hey, Judd will be, Oh, why didn't you say 50 why you're getting a judd text after this

yeah possibly the judd text will be covered what a beauty oh judd's in for it i'll say this old boy nice commission battle of pa is alive and well boys the battle of pa my brother just got uh got hired as as the director of player development for the Flyers. I saw that. Daniel Baer named his brother director. Yep. Who's your brother? Riley.

Riles. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually didn't know you guys were brothers. I had my little first ever stint at Sportsnet. Yeah, he was hanging out with me and Kip. Oh, my gosh. I'm like, can you get your brother away from me, please?

Please, can you get? And now he's running the with me and Kip. Oh, my gosh. I'm like, can you get your brother away from me, please? Please, can you get? And now he's running the Flyers with Breer. Who would have thought? Yeah, he's grinded. He's done good. He's done good. So he's alive and well now. I'm proud of him.

I'm proud of him. We're proud of you for coming on our show all season long, pal. Thanks for doing it. Yep. You guys for the best check out borny's article sportsnet.ca let's go let's go that's my my man thanks colbs colby armstrong so uh give us a little bit of a tidbit on uh or just a little sample of your article today it was you know putting a list together of what your priorities are when you're a player and what you

would consider and how we have a pretty good idea of what is at the top of mcdavid's list and mckinnon's list and we just don't know what's at the top of matthew's list we don't and so to me it's he is going to reveal to us what his priorities are. And that decision will affect how he's viewed for all eternity in trauma. I don't know if we'll. I wrote Thursday in my article on Austin that, you know, he's far away a hard guy to read. Yeah, he is. And I don't know if we'll ever get true answers on what makes him tick.

Because you're not what you say, you're what you do. And so what he does is going to tell us what he is and i don't know if we'll ever get true answers on we will what makes him tick because you're not what you say you're what you do and so what he does is going to tell us what he is and so if he stays here in toronto on a cheap deal wants to win i think it's pretty clear that that winning stuff is real and that is a priority that is important i did get into this a little bit on on my article as well is that um and i'm going to throw this out to you both sammy i want to hear your answer so think he's calling doug i'm just talking to doug okay all right uh i'll go to you before we go to mac yeah yeah okay if austin matthews goes all right i got doug mclean, and I'll throw this out to Mac, too. But I want to hear your answer first, so hold on there, Mac. If Austin goes the same route as Matthew Kachuk, open and honest, and says, listen, I'm not signing here long-term.

Try to get what you can for me. I want to go back home. If he pulls the exact same thing, will he get the same admiration that Matthew Kachuk had for being open and honest, or will he get ripped? I think, well, he'll get a little bit of both because people are polar, but I think it depends what Tree Living would get back for him. Like if they were happy in Calgary, they were like, ah, we got a guy with 115 points, and we got a D-man,

and we got a first rounder. If that happened in Toronto, he might not get ripped. If he gets a bad deal, probably affects how people view him. I want to get Sammy McKee president of leaf nation on that, but let's get Doug McClain involved here on off the rails Friday, Mac. Thanks for coming on. I want to ask you the same question. Is there a chance that Austin takes the Matthew Kachuk playbook? You know, there's a chance.

I mean, he keeps saying he wants to be in Toronto. And your friend Mr. Bourne there is probably accurate, but how do you get a fair deal for one of the premier players in the game? You don't get one. So you're dreaming, Bourne. Yep. La-la land on that one. You think you're getting back a couple of pucks or what?

You might get Logan Cooley and, you know, I mean, who are you getting? Come on. Who are they going to give you? Depends where he goes, obviously. So I think it's really hard for the GM. Isn't it the history of the game? Isn't it the history of the game that whoever gets the best player in the trade wins the trade?

Don't tell me Uberdough was close to Matthew Kachuk in that deal. And Uyghur, come on. Okay. Colby threw out the LA Kings moments ago as a possible destination for Austin Matthews. If you were able to do something with Gabe Velarde, a first rounder, and a defenseman, Mikey Anderson. Boo. No? Boo.

No, you're not good pieces for a guy that you could walk out the door 12 months later for nothing I know but the problem is Nick it comes back to the same thing who's the best player who's the best player probably not Mikey

Anderson to make go back go back to the Lindros trade go back to the Lindros trade. Go back to the Lindros trade. Yeah, what, 15 million? 15 million, Forsberg, and on and on. Three first-round picks, and on and on and on and on.

Back, back. This is one of the top three forwards in the game, Auston Matthews. You're not getting a fair deal, boys. Trust me. You're not. You're going to get ripped. I don't disagree with you for one second.

So, you know, I know it's impossible to guess what his priorities are, but how much do you think it affects what the Leafs do? Like, do you think if he takes 14 million that means they can't keep Marner or or Nylander or do you think that those guys are they're going to find a way to keep all these guys how do what are the dominoes of Matthew's deal it's tremendous dominoes because it's you know it it's the same for every team you take a look at your top four paid players in the in your franchise and you say okay where are those top four players numbers okay so you look at toronto colorado edmonton las vegas florida boston whoever you want to look at

top four players if they're over 34 million you're in trouble to build a team around them you really are and you know the Leafs are at 42 right now or so in that range you go if you go to 46 how do you ever build a team around them that's the problem dubas had dubas tried for three four years to put a supporting cast around and he wasn't successful doing it how do you put a supporting cast around it you know that's your challenge and right now you know you look at all those teams toronto's in the worst shape of any of them. So what's... And they're all contenders. So just envision yourself being Brad Tree Living now

and knocking on the door in Arizona at their house and saying, what's your number? Or what is also... What is Brad's number? What is the number that says yes, and what's the number where you walk away from it, Mac? Well, that's the biggest challenge Brad Tree Living is faced with.

And I'm telling you one thing. I'm telling you right now, I'm glad it's Tree Living doing it because he's got experience, and he's a reputable guy, and people in the business trust him okay so that's the number one thing i'm giving give tree full marks that he will be a guy that will do everything he can to make this happen so i don't know what the number is nick is if it's 14 what what do you do how do you build your team unless you're going to pay him 14 and you're going to move marner kneelander one of the others that's that's if you're going to pay him 14 you can't keep

everybody it's impossible do you think if he were a free agent unless the cap unless the cap unless the cap goes not much higher than next year um no not next year not next year or the year after possibly if it does it might go up three or four. But he'll eat it all. Yeah. Do you think if he were a free agent, anyone would... So 20% of max salary cap, 83.5 is 16.7 million. I don't think anybody can go there.

I don't think they can anymore, guys. I mean, I just... Look, I'm listening to what's going on in Ottawa with the brinket. Okay. I followed that today. Okay. What do you do there, guys? You look at their top four to Chuck Stutzel Norris, and they got a stud coming. That's going to be up for a contract in a year's time, Sanderson. And they very easily could get those four guys done at 33 plus million.

Okay? And I put that group of four, as young as they are, and the term they have on them, up against any of the other teams, including Boston, Florida, Vegas, Edmonton, Colorado, for potential. For potential. So you cannot let yourself get into a Toronto Maple Leafs situation that has plagued them for a couple of years now. You can't do it.

Yeah, but you can't also let them walk out the door because you gave up a first, a second, and a third, I think. Did you not? No, you can't let them. But you can phone Carolina, who was looking for a score after going out four straight and couldn't score a goal in the playoffs. I know they got Sveshnikov, but De Brink, it's a good player. So you've got to work every which way to get him on term

for quite a bit less money than the nine. You can take him to arbitration and get some down. But if you get into that with your fifth guy there making that kind of money, then you've got Bathurst in at five. I mean, you get into a situation, you can't build your team. And you need a number one goalie, and you need a top four defenseman probably, or at least a five. You know, it's hard to build a team, boys.

Dubas couldn't do it. And he's the smartest guy. He's the smartest general manager that I've ever listened about in the last few days. And he couldn't do it and he couldn't do it he couldn't do it and yet he is he's the new Sam Pollock and he hasn't hardly won a playoff round Sam Pollock won nine Stanley Cups he's won one play I talked to a GM today and the guy said like Doug what is going on here he never won in the OHL he's won one round in nine years with the Leafs. And you think the God of Sam Pollock we're talking about.

And I like Kyle. I like him. The guy who's very popular with people like yourself, Doug, Brad Tree Living, has been hired here now. What do you think his situation with the coaches here in Toronto? How many playoff rounds is he how many playoff rounds has he won in the playoffs in the last five seven years i thought that was a worthwhile conversation to have too we were we were gonna get there but what are your thoughts

aren't they even they both they both won one game in the second round right okay so they're even then going in there even is he gonna fire hire the or hire the coach? What do you think? I think, I got a funny feeling Keith survives. You know what I was thinking about today? Where would the Leafs have been the last couple of years? I know Babcock said some nasty things about Mariner, and they got mad at him in Detroit, but where would they have been with Babcock in the playoffs in these series, the Montreal series, the Toronto, you know,

where would they have been? I don't know. I don't know. I think Keith's done a pretty good regular season job. There's no denying that. I think he's a pretty good young coach. But I think it's time for a change. I think the boys have got to grow

up and say okay put your big panties on and let's let's get ready for some real battles here that's what i think they need what's out there that's available peter laviolette has been linked to the rangers like would you like to see laviolette try to close out this roster to try to win a stanley cup i think you need i think you need a coach that's uh that's that's won some games you know i was thinking today i mean edmonton are winning by four goals and nurse goes on the ice after him and petro angelo been battling and they lose them for a game and it may have cost them a series i know their goaltending wasn't good enough but it may have cost them a series. I know their goaltending wasn't good enough, but it may have cost them a series.

You need big-time experience. And I don't think they have enough behind the bench to win. And they're still going to be in the window next year of the leagues. They're still going to be in the window to win. They're going to be one of the better teams going into the playoffs. I know you're a little, you know, Gerard Galant's a buddy of yours. We get all of that. But, you know, a guy that has had success, You're a little Gerard Galantza buddy of yours. We get all of that.

But a guy that has had success, including a Stanley Cup final, I know the longevity hasn't been there, but could he come in short term and have an effect? I know he's been linked to Calgary, I think, Toronto. I get such a charge out of the Rangers. He goes to the conference final last year and lose to Tampa Bay in a tough, hard-fought series. And this year, according to Drury, he can't do X and O's on the bench. Like, come on.

I know X and O's on the bench. Don't tell me he can't do X and O's and make adjustments in-game. It's a bunch of BS. It's an bunch of BS. It's an excuse that people throw out there when they got to fire a coach. Okay. So I'm not buying it. Yeah.

He's a guy that he's an experienced guy. He's been nine years as a head coach in the NHL. He's an experienced guy. He's a, he's him and Laviel at somebody, somebody that's had a chance to get to the final. I mean, he's been a conference final and a Stanley Cup final with pretty average teams. And he had a good run also in Florida.

So, you know what? I think he's a name that should be in the mix for sure. All right, we're going to let you go, bud. Summer hours. You don't have to work twice as hard on our show with summer hours. I didn't even give Bourne a chance to talk today. I shot my mouth off way too much. I apologize for that.

No, it's okay. We love having you. I'm happy to take the day off. I was trying to make Sammy and Bourne feel better about Kyle leaving, and I don't know if I accomplished that. Listen. You know? Because I know they're devastated.

When you speak of Kyle and then end your rant with but I like Kyle, what do you like with people that you don't like? Oh, I'm ambitious. Do you want me to start on a couple I don't

like? No, no, you're done. We'll do a whole show of that one day. We'll have you on and just airing of grievances with Doug McClain. Mac, thanks for doing this. Take care, boys. Thanks, Mac. Bye. Bye.

Okay, I just want to come back to Sammy before we go to break here. Austin Matthews tells Brad Tree Living the same thing Matthew Kachuk. How is that how do you what does that do for you sammy and and a bunch of your buddies i think born you mentioned return right which would is not in matthew's control of course but relevant to fans the perception of the type of player they traded for, the amount of capital they got back, where he went. Like, there's a lot of stuff that plays into it.

But I think ultimately, if you gave them the warning and they got a good return and they were able to sort of get, you know, it's going to be quarters on the dollar in terms of return trading Austin Matthews, but you're able to get that. Velarde, I threw out Velarde. I hate this deal.

Mikey Anderson. Oh, my God. Mikey Anderson, a first rounder, and Byfield. Oh. No. I don't think you mentioned Byfield the first time you did that. No, I'm including four pieces. Four pieces, including a top three pick.

I'm not ready to have this conversation. He's not emotionally there. No, no. The first time you did it, you said Velarde. No, no, no. I was missing a piece. Kipper, leave the fake trades to me, pal. I'll get my lab.

Did I intrigue you a little bit more with Byfield? Well, it is more intriguing because now you have a giant centerman that, you know, is young and has potential. Has to bring a centerman back. Yeah. You know, that does change things. But no, I mean, I still want Matthews in this scenario. Okay. Bring Sean Dursey home.

Let him, you know, after he got booed. Bring enough of Dursey. After getting booed for getting slashed in the head by Pierre Engvall. After getting booed mercilessly by his home crowd. I'm coming home. I'm sure he's a great guy. I'm coming home. I'm sure he's a great guy, but not a needle mover. Bring home to Ursy. 13 and a half times three, you're okay with?

Yeah. Yeah, I am. I am for sure. I don't, you know, I just want more term. I'm also okay with 15 times eight. 15 times eight. I'll tell you what I'm not. It's funny because I, yeah.

Play him whatever he wants. I'll tell you what I'm not okay with. All right. I'm excited. I'm not it's funny because i yeah like whatever he wants i'll tell you what i'm not okay with all right i'm excited i'm not okay that you jumped to 13.5 when the captain of the avalanche won the stanley cup and he only went up a hundred thousand more than the highest paid player yeah that's i got a problem with a guy jumping out of toronto a million dollars when a guy actually led his team and did everything you asked him to only went to 12-6 and by the way uh mckinnon has finished second for the heart twice third for the heart once i voted for him to win the heart twice. He's a guy. Whether you're Judd or Austin, how can you look me in the eye

and say that you want to go to 13-5 when McKinnon's at 12-6 on a brand new deal after delivering the cup? It's really easy because he took a dumb deal. He shorted himself millions of dollars. He's worth so much more than that. If that guy wants to take a dumb deal, don't make it relevant to my client's deal. We got to go to break here soon, but I will say. You're not allowed to tell me things that change my mind, by the way.

You're not allowed. But what about, like, just think about the perception Matthews would have if he was a hero among heroes like David Pasternak for taking $11 million. What a discount. If he took a quote-unquote Kipper discount and took $12 million for five years or something, he would be, they would shower roses on him

and he would be talked about as this, oh, what a guy for taking less money. What a team guy. 100%. So it's like, how rich do you need to be? Yeah, he's probably made $70 million. Like, do you need to be like, like, what are you trying to be?

What do you care about? Do you care about your perception and winning? Or do you care about money? That's what it comes down to. That's what my whole article is. It's probably live. I mean, Brad Tree Living needs Sammy to go knock on his door in Arizona. No, he doesn't.

No, he doesn't. Because if I'm in Arizona, I'll be cracking beers. I'll be like, ah, whatever you want, Austin. Let's go. Let's hit the range. Austin just has visions of himself rollerblading down the boardwalk. Who's the character in Hoosiers who took over the team? You know what? I'm not a big Hoosiers who took over the team? You know what?

I'm not a big Hoosiers aficionado. I maybe watched it once in many, many years. I've never seen Hoosiers. He's the, sorry, I can't remember the character, but that would be you on that trip. Sammy fits the mold. I have no perception. Okay, we need to go to break.

Yeah, we're going to get some playoff picks coming back. You heard Sammy. Real Kipper and Bourne after these words. The best Blue Jays show out there period blair and barker be sure to subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. I think you're, Momo, calling us the most opinionated. Is that you? I don't know if that's my role in this show.

You know I like to keep my opinions to myself. I've never really heard a lot of opinions on this show. All right, Tammy, let her rip. Playoff picks. Time for playoff picks. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. Now, still no hockey.

Oh, great. Tomorrow is hockey. Yay. Hooray. Although, I shouldn't say, there's a great, great OHL game on tonight, which you cannot bet on on Bet365. But it's a high-powered Seattle Thunderbirds with I think nine first-round picks on their team

versus the Peterborough Peets, the pesky Peets. Be a great game. 10 p.m. puck drop. I know Borny will be staying up for that one. But before this year's NHL gets started, the final, I noticed that on Bet365, you can bet on who next year's Stanley Cup finalist winner will be. That is unbelievable.

What do we got? So who do you think is the favorite? The Cup favorites for next year, the Boston Bruins. How can they do that? Colorado. Colorado. Correct. Colorado is they do that? Colorado. Colorado. Correct. Colorado is the favorite.

Plus 800. With no Landis Cog. I guess. Think about that. He's missing a whole year? Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. And you think?

Yeah. What is the number? I totally made that up. You're right. No way. And coming in second. Oh, not the Leafs. It's the Leafs.

Would you really put money on Colorado right now for next year? Not a chance. Who would? I don't know who bets on these. I think it's hilarious that they put them up. I think the idea is that if you're looking deep into the middle of the pack and you think there's a team that's going to add a bunch at free agency, you think they're going to be aggressive

but they still have long odds. Maybe you could get in before the number changes a lot. Pittsburgh or something, they were way down the list. But it would be insane because you're going to get Colorado a plus 800 at the start of the year. And then would you care to Kipper give me a couple bucks to put on the least to win the cup next year? 9-1?

I'm going to guess you're not going to find any VCs in this audience here willing to back that. Edmonton is also 9-1. There you go. No thanks. How much money would you have made if you went Florida like November,

December? What would those numbers have been? We not only shoveled shovelfuls of dirt onto their casket by December. I think we had it fully buried. We had to dig it back up. I bet you when they were down, when we were talking about their pick, their Sherratt pick potentially being the first overall pick,

I bet you could have got them 80-90 to one. And how about the Penguins just needed to beat the Blackhawks on a Tuesday in April to eliminate them? And this woman would never have been here. And they couldn't do it. And now the Panthers might win the cup. It's crazy. What a sport.

And the Leafs could have been playing Pittsburgh. You got a chip and a chair. You got a chance. All right. And the next thing I have is I brought it up with you yesterday. The five goals in the series. You can bet on someone to score three goals in the series. Now we're talking.

So the favorites obviously are, let me just pick it up here. Give me Mark Stone. Score three plus goals in the series. Matthew Kachuk is minus 140. Jack Eichel minus 120. Kachuk is minus 140. Jack Geichel, minus 120. Carter Verhage, minus 110. Jonathan Marshall, plus 110. Your boy, Mark Stone, plus 180.

So there you go. Those are the favorites. Give me some numbers on the series. Game, championship team. Vegas in five. I'm saying Vegas in five for my boys on the zigzags who will be at a Stanley Cup party if that happens. I'll have to go Florida.

You're picking Florida, yeah. Seven. I would like to clarify that my pick is not about not believing in Florida versus Vegas. It's that I think the goaltending is going to turn back into a pumpkin. All the way. Yeah, full pumpkin. Really?

He's never had a sustained run, and he hot he was hot he was hot you know you make it every putt on the course you go two days later after whatever and it's just not there yeah i've just been after the putter gordo gave me i never miss boys and that was playoff picks presented by bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds tremendous cinderella year Cinderella year. Yeah. And I just thought, like, isn't it St. Louis, their run? They were in last place in Christmas. Yeah. It's starting to happen a little more often now, guys. God, they just haven't played in so long.

I know. I know. It's just such a divide. Starting to see teams, like, just get in. Just get in. Get hot. Get your goalie ready. Yeah roll the dice baby florida's never been healthier they've played like nine games in the past month all right time to go

says derrick brandale our thanks to colby armstrong and doug mclean off the rails friday have a great weekend stay safe everybody give us a rating and review if you get a chance or a thumbs up stay safe everybody