Real Kyper & Bourne - Dubas Swings Big on O'Reilly, and He's Not Done Yet

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee give a full breakdown of the Ryan O'Reilly trade,  where he fits, what he brings, the chances of locking him up long-term, Kyle Dubas' next move and much more. Leafs Nation's Gord Stellick joins the conversation (41:43) to discuss what the Leafs gave up for O'Reilly, what John Tavares can do as a winger and why Dubas should try to hold on to high picks in any subsequent deals. Then, a chat about Dubas' mentality approaching the deadline and the chances that he's brought back after this season, as well as what's next for Patrick Kane. Later, Jamal Mayers of NBC discusses O'Reilly's fit on the second line, what he brings from a character standpoint and provides insight on St. Louis's ongoing rebuild (1:07:40).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is real Kipper and born on Sportsnet 590, the van. Hope everybody's enjoying their family day. This is my getaway from my family day, Kipper. I just did Great Wolf Lodge. I'm free! Radio! You took the kid. That's a must for any parent.

Yeah. Any parents out there. Yeah. Living in Southern Ontario. It's just a must. Yeah. You know you're going to go there. You know you're going to get screwed with the cost of everything.

Yeah. But you do it anyway. Unbelievably efficient at draining your pockets. I couldn't believe. They're like, yeah, touch your wrist to this. We get 50 bucks for it. Don't ask what it's for. I can't believe you can afford to get gas in your car to get here today.

I know we're I'm dry. I'm eating the scraps. I just ate a plain Tim bit left in a box back there. So while everybody still enjoys their day off, we're coming to work. You can't have a trade like that on the weekend and not talk about it as early as monday can you can you not sammy i mean people would have come on tuesday too i think no we had to come in today must big day must must people were calling for us to come back on the air on the weekend you know what i think here's. Dubas, so sick of our show and questioning what they're doing,

they said make the trade at 5.05 on Friday. Just screw Kipper, Bourne, Sam, and crew. For those of you living under a rock the last little while, Ryan O'Reilly, Noel Achari in a three-team trade with the Toronto Maple Leafs, St. Louis, Minnesota, key contributors in all of this. And we got a couple of sample sizes, albeit small ones, on the weekend against Montreal and Chicago. But before we get into that, just on a scale of 1 to 10, how surprised were you that this happened?

This happened now and not towards the latter part of March 3rd. You know, we did an exercise, Yumi and Sammy talking about all the different players you could plug in and how it makes your team look. I forget if it was Thursday or Friday, but one of the ones that came up was O'Reilly. We did talk about him. And I remember saying how greatly it altered

the look of the forward group. Like it changed everything in a significant way, in a way that adding a single winger or a single D-man didn't quite have the same impact. And it did that for me. So I'm not shocked because I'm sure they went through the exercise of what adding this player and that player and how it all changes things. This makes them look significantly different to me.

So I'm not shocked by that i'm shocked they managed to get double retention and get it done and obviously it costs quite a bit and get a charry i'm shocked for other reasons i'm not shocked they got o'reilly i am surprised that it happened this early oh yeah i thought that they would have pushed a little bit further uh down the uh the next week just to see and keep options open. The commitment for me to go out and get two forwards over a defense to me with a week still to go to take those assets, and essentially we are talking about a collective group of a first, a second, a third, and a fourth into two forwards over a D.

I get making this decision maybe towards March, March 1st, March 2nd. I'm surprised that they did it this early for two forwards when I think there's still a major concern on the blue line. You know what that says to me though is that they had conversations about what they wanted to prioritize like you know

if they felt like what we have to get for our assets because you only have so much money to spend just like they only had so much to asset or so many assets to spend they must have said here's our list of priorities for what we want to do with our team and they must have thought that a that a forward had priority over a d-man sammy where are you on that because i would have prioritized the blue line over the forwards albeit the holes that we we've talked at great length over. I would have, I'd probably just do both, Kipper.

Quite honestly, like I don't necessarily, I mean, the trade deadline hasn't passed here now. I know they don't have the assets. They don't have a lot of assets, period, after this trade. I don't know what they're willing to do to shore up the blue line now. You're still holding the ace. No, I don't think that's out of the question now. Don't you?

No. I do. I do. Yeah. I've got Matthew Nye's out of play right now, and that's not on any knowledge or inside information. This is me watching Kyle Dubas well before the March trade deadline say, I can go get Ryan O'Reilly right now and it won't cost me Matthew Nyes.

I'm doing it. Yeah. I mean, it depends. You know, you couldn't make, you can't do everything with one, you know, with the assets. We talked about what they had to spend. And the first was probably their biggest thing outside of Nyes, right, to spend. Wanted to keep Nyes if possible.

We talked about where we prioritize it. I wrote the day of the trade that the Leafs are going to do something on their decor. And they still are. They're still going to get a defenseman. That doesn't. The other thing that stands out for me is there's not a defenseman out there that I think is worthy of giving up Matthew Nise. See, that's a good point.

That's a really good point. And I like Jacob Chikrin. I'm not sure I give Matthew Nise up for him. Even Ekholm, if they could do something like that. Ekholm has three more years after this year, and he's 32. Ekholm's a little weathered and worn down and no i'm not giving up matthew nyes for a 31 year old yeah even like can you get gavrikov now without having you know you're not going to give up nyes for expiring gavrikov that's not happening right now everybody says gavrikov's going to the boston bruins

that i've talked to okay they really believe that uh that uh boston's got the inside edge on that rich get richer there so i listen i think what we saw over the weekend in terms of how much better the Leafs' forward depth looks like, adding two really capable NHL bodies, adding Ryan O'Reilly, and then adding Achari, who's a good fourth liner. I think that that is a huge change to the way the team looks, obviously. But I am still kind of with Kipper here in terms of the deep core still to me is a piece short. And the big elephant in the room is that, you know, Sergei Samsonov and Joseph Wall are goalies right now.

Like there's still other issues with this team that need to be addressed. You guys are tough to make happy though. I mean, you can't make four trades at once. You know, you got issues to address. You take care of one. And yes, it is expensive. But, you know, the idea that had we had care of one and yes it is expensive but you know the the idea that had we had this happen trade happened for a dean you go boy that left winger

in the second line is still no good i mean this is a this is a massive change to me and what you're able to do let's talk about uh the left wing because i mean i i like Ryan O'Reilly a lot. I loved him when St. Louis picked him up from Buffalo. And when I was asked my predictions that year from Sportsnet, who wins the Stanley Cup, I picked St. Louis based on Ryan O'Reilly. Yeah. Because I just think this guy's a winner and exactly what they needed at the time to lead. Saying that, I like him a lot here.

I don't like that he's having an off year. And I don't like the fact that, you know, he doesn't carry the same kind of clout right now. Now, can he find his game back? Can he be rejuvenated? A lot of underachievers in St. Louis, including Ryan O'Reilly this year, and probably he'd be the first one to admit that.

But where is that fit? And, you know, you sit here and you just said moments ago that we'd sit there going, oh, what about the left side? You know, I watched on a short sample size of Tavares on the left side, and I'm not overly thrilled on what I saw. And be it all, again, small sample, I'm not a big fan of Tavares and O'Reilly and Marner together from what I could gather up.

Yeah, that's fair. Where is Ryan O'Reillyilly spot for you on this hockey club i i think he needs to be a centerman and probably not with tavarez i think tavarez needs to be a centerman too i i love the idea of having matthews tavarez o'reilly camp down the gut so like and i'm watching and i'm with you this weekend sammy i'm watching and i'm like where where is another team now when they see those three guys lined up at center ice now all of a sudden it's i i think it's up to my opponents to go okay who do i want to match up those are pretty good three centermen down there i don't understand sheldon keith going to uh o'reilly and tavres on the left side right away.

To me, that's a line that you put together. Down a goal, you're like, yeah. Situational. Yeah, or even protecting a lead. Shortening your bench. Now, all of a sudden, you want them together for all those different parts of the game. But to come out and do that right away,

to me, is Sheldon Keefe overthinking. You know, I did think I wonder I wonder if there wasn't some effort to not have O'Reilly come in and be like yeah you're not going to be on the power play and also you play with uh you know Yarncroft and Engvall or whatever and and not have like you want him to feel a part of the big boys a part part of the core you know you get to know Tavares and Marner, and you guys do some work together. So you're saying Sheldon was scared to hurt Ryan O'Reilly's feelings. Oh, I'm wondering. No, I just think, you know, get to know the main pieces

and be a part of that. Would you like to hear Sheldon Keefe talk about why he played? Well, that would be perfect. Playing Tavares with them? Let's do it. Let her rip. In terms of the decision to play him there I just you know I know it's something I would have tried at some point for sure and we're gonna give it some runway um thought that setting up O'Reilly and the

cherry both in terms of playing their natural position playing at center um and then in O'Reilly's case in particular you're playing with two of our top guys, it just helped put him in a good spot here on arrival. And then John and I, over my tenure here, we've talked about him playing wing at different times. We haven't really had the depth at center to be able to give it much of a look other than the odd shift here and there.

So for all those reasons, it just made sense for me to just start with the right out of the gate yeah put him in a chance to position to succeed to start things off i'll be surprised if we don't see one two and three against buffalo yeah you know tavara's you're right though it's not like on wing is it that different for maybe he's less involved and you know something he doesn't do exceptionally well is is get started and as a winger you do more more you stop in the d zone you're not kind of constantly moving around so not sure that's perfect for him but i'm not sure because they're not going to have a practice right before tomorrow because they're off today and they'll probably

have a morning skate tomorrow do some meetings tomorrow i bet we see him with devaris and marner again tomorrow one more one more and then you'll have a full practice on wednesday with a couple days off a couple hard practice days before was it minnesota on on friday i think so minnesota on friday so i would imagine you'd probably see him play there one more game and before they but i to me the reason you acquire ryan o'reilly is to have unbelievable center depth where like kipper said you're trying to put it on the other team saying holy hell who are we going to match up our best guys with as opposed to turning ryan o'reilly who at this point of

his career isn't necessarily the offensive dynamo that he was as like a part of a super line i think his defensive ability and his shutdown ability is more important to this team than his offense just start it now then sammy between not hurting his feelings and you wanting to see it one more time against i don't want hey establish a checking line where you've got one of the best 200 foot centermen out there this is our third line let hit let let o'reilly drag in angvall and yarn crock into a fight here and just come on let a letter let her rip i actually think that they've done that poorly you know over keith's time here remember joe thornton comes in and they're like yeah he's gonna play with marner and matthews and the only place to go is down you know same with nick ritchie only place to go is down. You know, same with Nick Ritchie.

Only place to go is down when you start up there. And now, albeit only two games on the weekend, it does feel like he would be demoted. Right. Right. Rather than just slot into your natural place in the lineup. Situational saying that we've got now three of the best center in the East. What do you think the cost here of Noel Achari was or the value is? Second rounder.

You think he's the second rounder? He's the second rounder. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, this is no small potatoes for the Leafs here. Like, we had Darren Pang in here on Thursday who was like, Achari, Achari, Achari, talking about how good he's been. Guy who scored 20 in the league.

Something tells me Spanky might have known if something didn't that sound like yes go back anyone that wants to listen to darren pang coming into our uh studio last wednesday boys he knew go go back to the podcast spanky darren pang aka spanky yes just listen to the show you'll understand where spanky came from uh that guy was on to something yeah he was like yeah this is a chari what are your chari and i was like all right man like yeah back off he's fine but we saw like this guy's a legit bottom six professional nhl player we got one for you yes okay yes legit all day long plays hard leans on guys finishes checks his goal typical of what we can expect out of achari gets his nose dirty come on that's what

the leafs have been looking for me and uh bunk have been calling him the centerpiece but to your point yeah it's not cheap it's a second rounder in this draft yeah certainly expiring deal second rounder but boy um yeah you know he takes contact in front of the net on his goal stays with it you know he's in kind of that area a couple of good pros see this for me again, reading the tea leaves, eventually getting Ryan O'Reilly into a third center spot really lends towards Matthew Nye's coming in there, and maybe it's a hope and a prayer that he steps in and he can actually play with Tavares and Marner,

but there's your bigger, heavier winger coming in at, I don't know, what would he be, 21, 2021 at that point? Yeah. I mean, it's a... You want to put Nyes in the top six, eh? Listen, it's... If you strike lightning,

it's very helpful. Yes. With Ryan O'Reilly as your third line centerman. I mean, right now, the fourth line is Aston Reese, Achari, Kerfoot. You know, according to just looking at daily face-off right now, you know, Aston Reese on that left side probably gets the boot for Nize at that point. And, you know, Engvall, you're looking at Engvall, Achari, and Kerfoot,

or even if it is Nize, Achari, and Kerfoot. So I don't know if we really got the question from you, like the answer from you, like Kipper, do you like the trade? Compared to what they had before, it was a must. Okay. Was it very expensive? Yes. Did they need to do something?

Yes. Are they better for it? Yes. Is it enough? No. Yeah. Okay. There you go.

That's okay. That's fair. I just wanted to make sure we got that in there. If it's not enough with them, you know, they were way off before, and hopefully this leaves them the runway and the time. You're right about the assets. What do you have left to spend here to shore up a D spot?

The Ds certainly look worse than last year. The forward group looks considerably better to me. The forward group is definitely better this year after this trade, but I think what you said about the D decor is still probably worse than last year i the problem that you know the thing that scares me about this and listen i love ryan o'reilly and i hate to be on the side of concerned about the trade but i just have to ask how much closer you are to beating tampa now with this as you were before and is it worth giving up almost a full draft class to get this much closer i mean that's the question draft class the fourth in 2025

well like i mean it's one two three it's one two three four it's a lot to give i'm just i'm asking you the question like do you think they're that much closer to beating tampa in the first round now than they were before worst case scenario this is uh nick felino two oh yeah that's worst case scenario for sure the the other the other note as well and i know this has been said but like it's not a lottery first you know you're looking at the 27th pick 27th and the you know whatever else you want to call those picks their assets their assets i understand i'm just saying they're not and they're top 10 they're valuable and you know if you're scouting staffs doing a good job you should get a good pro out of it yeah albeit maybe 1 to 30 in your depth chart of organizational. Yeah. So there's no question there is a steep price to pay.

It's a real cost. It is a real cost. And there's, you know, we've talked about the whole all in thing. And if it doesn't work, go ahead. So we've got Kyle Dubas. Got a bunch of Dubas. Yeah. We got to, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Do we all remember hearing him say, maybe not definitively, that it was highly unlikely that he'd give up first rounders for rentals? Oh, yeah. He said that. Okay. I didn't make it up. No, but we said at the time that that's how you increase the value of those things, by being a boxer who's saying,

I'm retired, and if you want me to come back, it's going to cost a lot. You say, I'm not doing that unless you pay me enough. Okay, let's go to cost a lot. You say, I'm not doing that, unless you pay me enough. Okay, let's go to Kyle Dubas on trading this first-round pick for Ryan O'Reilly. As I said a few weeks ago, I don't often like to part with first-round picks for players that aren't under contract, and we've done it twice now. I just felt that the team had earned it, and we have to put our team in the best position, and I'd rather have dealt the picks than deal from our reserve of prospects mostly because we know the prospects and what they're about we're

with them every day and the picks are a little bit like the mystery box you can have the have the mystery box you can have the prospects so we kept our guys and we'll we'll roll from there Dubas is trying hard not to use the simpsons line you could have a boat or the mystery box and what's in the mystery box could be anything could be a boat that's yes it'd be seth jarvis it could be seth jarvis 100 you took the words right out of my mouth right a little from column a a little from column b yeah so uh yeah now team earned it you think you think this was always the plan or i don't know it just i again i only can go back to what he said a week and a half ago but did someone change his mind for him or he just lied or he just lied that's what i think yeah okay yeah i do you know i think this

was always the plan that they were going to be as aggressive as possible not necessarily o'reilly and achari but to be aggressive to take swings you know i i just don't want them to be the minnesota wild or the nashville predators and finish 15th the next 20 years so if they're gonna take a swing at the cup this year and then suck for a few years and then draft high again and like i'd rather be the up and down franchise personally if i haven't made myself clear on this show i love this like i'm really excited about this what's the point of being a sports fan to me if your team doesn't try to get better and try to win championships and i understand that you have to think about it more pragmatically yeah and is it the best of a bad situation which is we need help everywhere

right yeah we're going into this we need help top six bottom six hopefully that was addressed with this yeah but if we look over the course of the last year and a half or two years, it's the stinking blue line that's hampered this team. It has. Yes. And goaltending to a certain extent, for sure. Don't worry, they're fine in net. But also, the special teams also killed them. Where is the priority?

Where's the priority on this? Well, you know, I have seen all these smart internet people say they thought it was forwards and i don't agree i agree with you kip i agree that like d is something they need to shore up i i you need another valuable d-man a guy who can defend and be heavy you know jonah siegel and the athletic today mentioned a name like dimitri orlov and you see that name was like like i know the caps are still in a play race, but if they were to fall out... You mentioned stuff that's killed them in the playoffs before.

And sure, it's been, you know, decor or whatever and lack of big goals, but a lot of it has to do with the special teams as well. And they haven't been able to kill a penalty at big times where the power plays let them down. Both sides of it yeah i mean ryan o'reilly and nola charlie are both excellent penalty killers like in that i mean uh charlie had a couple moments last night in the penalty kill where he looked like you know outside of marner maybe their best penalty killing forward and to

me if there's one thing that i'm gonna say that i love about it is acquiring two guys that are good penalty killers, one guy that can play the bumper position on a second power play or even a first, depending on how you want to do it. If you want to bump somebody off, they probably won't. I do think that one of the huge things that's killed them in the playoffs is special teams, and this was a big swing to help that out. No? Yeah, I see that.

Yes, 100%. Deeper depth. No question about it. But I will also say, like, I didn't love O'Reilly in either game that they played this week. He makes a lot of little plays. He does. He's heavy as hell.

He plays in small areas. Hockey IQ is way above average. His strength isn't speed. So what you really essentially have now is two guys that don't play with speed, Tavares and O'Reilly. I'm curious what you think of that. Before that question. And they are similar type of players.

Yeah. They even kind of skate similar. They wear 90 and 91. They look a lot alike. The cachet is in O'Reilly. It's not in Tavares. I'm sorry. No, you're right.

If you had to take one centerman, if you had a choice, would you take O'Reilly or Tavares? O'Reilly is if Tavares were also awesome at defense. Thatilly or tavaris o'reilly is if tavaris were also awesome at defense that's essentially what o'reilly is maybe even grittier yeah you know whoa so you would take o'reilly over tavaris yeah oh my god you're nuts you're nuts what do you mean you wouldn't no in a game seven no no yeah i this is, that's. We do not agree. Yeah. Come on. Tavares has, what does he have, almost 30 goals this year?

He's, you know, he's a really good player. He's underappreciated. 30 goals in a game seven. I need a guy that can do it all. Okay. Here's one thing. John Tavares did score in game seven last year until it was ripped off the board by the worst penalty call in the history of sports. You know what I didn't notice through two games?

So we can talk about that line, the Marner-Tavarez-O'Reilly line, because it's fascinating. Do you want guys to play at the same speed, which is slow, or do you want – but what I did notice is how many times were they on the forecheck and the other team's breaking the puck out, and someone knocked the puck out of the air? They knocked it out of the air, and they poked it in. They turned it around.

The teams just could not break out against that line. Marner's so good with his stick and with their positioning. I don't know if you like that line as a group or not. Again, speed. Yeah. But, boy, are they frustrated and try to get the puck past with their good sticks. Yeah. So what do you think?

Do you like the altogether speed? At least everyone goes the same speed? So let me get this straight, Cameron. I like to sprinkle it all across the outfield. Let me get this straight. Or the infield. Do you sprinkle the infield or do you sprinkle the outfield? Sprinkle it.

You don't like, you like the trade. You think it made them better. You think they paid too much. It was expensive. But you would prefer to have Ryan O'Reilly than John Tavares. Listen, I'm just saying that I think Ryan O'Reilly is more of a complete player than John Tavares. Also, I would like to add. Can Tavares better score?

Yes. But I'm just saying that. I mean, that's kind of the point of the game is to score. Yeah, it's also to keep pucks out. It's also not to turn pucks over. Tavares, to me, has an issue sometimes turning the puck over. He does. He turns the puck over a lot

He does, there's no doubt Can we go back to Chicago's first goal last night? Who turned the puck over? Was it Tavares? I'm trying to think of the first goal Yeah, think about it Behind the net, banked it off the wall Five seconds later, it's in the net

Yeah I'm looking at O'Reilly's career stats. I'm not taking this. I'm just saying, though, like, go back to my vision. And I would not take, I wouldn't put, I'm putting Ryan O'Reilly in the third slot. It's not like I'm saying that Tavares should go to the third line here. Like, he's still a better offensive top six guy than Ryan O'Reilly. Leave him where he is.

I'm just not sure it's a good fit to now push Tavares to the left side. Yeah. At this point. I don't like it either, Kip. I don't see Tavares as a winger. Again, I think that a lot of the Leafs wingers fly the zone and push the pace and pull the D out with them, and Tavares ain't pulling anyone anywhere, you know, with his game, his speed.

So, yeah, I like him there. I like O'Reilly. You're right in the three spot. How good would you feel about an O'Reilly-centered sort of shutdown group? Yeah, Nyes comes in and plays left side. Well, who do you like somewhere who do you like to play with o'reilly kipper do you have a thought in mind i think you have to uh you got to leave engvall there and yarn croc's done enough where he's not as i've said all season long a top six guy that to me is a good start to a checking line so then who do you have in the top

six curve foot again i have to go and put curve foot on the left side with uh tavarison and marner while i wait for matthew nice but it's also different when you have a third line that's also a second line. You know, that changes things to me too where, you know, you're all concerned about the second line having Kerfoot on it, but if your third line is... I'm not any happier having Kerfoot there than I am Yarncroft. No.

It's just... I'm fine with Kerfoot there, but yeah, then your third line is O'Reilly, Engvall, Yarncroft, then your fourth line is Kampf, Achari, and, you know, Nyes. Aston Reese. Something like that. Seven points this year for Aston.

By the way, Bobby McMahon with the Marlies scored today. He did score today? 13 goals in 13 games now, according to the recent tweet I saw. Well, Sammy had it before the game, too, he called it. So almost a goal per game since he's been back plenty to still get into gordon stelic in about 15 minutes we'll be joining us jamal meyer uh jamal mayers uh former nhler sportsnet hockey analyst a guy that knows st louis market very well we'll talk ryan o'reillyilly with Jamal later on in the show in the next

hour. As far as Kyle Dubas, still more meat on the bone with his comments about the trade. Derek, you have that for us? Felt that the move was important considering the market going through all of our options,

surveying the market, continuing to watch where our own team was at and where we're headed to add these two specific players to our group. Obviously, Ryan O'Reilly's pedigree speaks for itself, but his defensive prowess, his playoff performance, what he brings to our center position, and what he will bring to our team on and off the ice, we thought was vital for trying to accomplish what we're about to try to accomplish, especially with the level of competition that we're going to face. See, I just think that once they figured out they couldn't get a guy like Timo Meier

to shore up that left side, this was the only option that they saw on the board and they're like let's go do it right now yeah doubly impactful i think you know having lots of runways still 25 hockey games for them to get acclimated and it is two guys it's not just o'reilly and we talked about the bottom six needing a little someone too so it's it's significant but it's a big deal and it's exciting for the leafs and now it's a matter of okay you a big deal, and it's exciting for the Leafs. And now it's a matter of, okay, you got how long? What is it? 13 days here to figure out what else.

The goaltending, a little concerning the other night. We've talked about the decor. But now they're not done. I don't know what else there is to spend, really. I don't think there's much. I really don't. And I think you sammy did you mention earlier in the show or even off air or love and the washington capital

or he said it on air but we had been talking about it off okay so uh we all believe that uh uh gavrikov is going to end up in boston where the washington capitals I think they've got a big week coming up. I think they've got Detroit. Yeah. They've got Anaheim, and I think the Rangers are in there without rechecking. You got it. But, like, hey, where are they? Are they buyers?

Are they sellers? Will we find out by the end of the week if they're sellers? If not, then there's two defensemen there. I think Jensen's another one they also play the sabers same week four games this week all in the uh division all sorry atlantic or metro huge week yeah plenty of time before march 3rd to decide whether your buyers are sellers right so uh last time i had heard they'd like to sign orlov in was. He's asking for way too much money and too much term as of now. Caps are currently one point out of a playoff spot,

but a lot of games played, teams around them have less. They're hanging on. Lost four in a row now. If I'm not mistaken, Orlov also falls into that 31, 32 years of age. You ready to go rent another guy for a first or second round pick? Well, they don't have any seconds, do they? I don't know. The next three years, they have no seconds.

You're pretty. Okay. So that's out. Yeah. That's out. Yeah, that's done. Are you ready to go get another rental? Yeah, I love Orlov.

They're pretty puck committed here. I've always been a huge fan of Orlov's game, just in terms of sort of puck moving ability with the grittiness. Like, he really does feel like a Muzzin type guy. Yes, and I like him on the left side. So, to me, the move, if you're going to make it, would be right. I don't think they can afford him. It would be a roster player of some kind,

maybe one that plays on the left side and plays defense and players number 38. Sandin. I mean, if they're going to be able to make a trade for another guy, you've got to think it's maybe somebody like that, no? I don't think they're going to be trading their 2024 first-round pick or 2025 first-round pick. I don't think he wants to go that far here's what i can tell you the leafs can do from now on um so first off they have firsts in 24 and 25 if they wanted to get

hyper aggressive but just that's not what i was going to tell you in terms of cap space they have uh like four and a half million dollars uh that they can spend at the deadline with Murray on LTIR. When he comes off LTIR, they cannot spend or add any more money without money going out. So if you add Orlov at 50% retained, that's 2.5% or 2.6%, you have to move 2.6% to get him in. So anything they do now not only has to come with a cost of the assets but money has to go out that doesn't sound realistic does it i don't know i honestly like

if you do move sandin and there goes 1.4 you know can you cut your roster down to you know send guys down to make room it like i'm sure there's a way for a guy at that number, but much above that number, it gets challenging. Okay, so Achari, Ryan O'Reilly, a potential Orlov, Gabrikov, they all need extensions. Let's go to Kyle Dubas on the thought

of getting any of these guys, including Ryan O'Reilly, of course, on an extension. Not at this time. My view of it on that is, and I don't profess that it's the right way to look at it, Luke, but I think whenever you're, that always becomes the topic with this, and I think that you want to see how the player fits in

with where you're at, whether they like it here, whether it's the right fit. The term that I use in that is I'd like the people to live together before they get married a little bit rather than take that step without it. That's just my view. It doesn't mean that it's right. I know other teams have different views on it,

but my view is you want to make sure that the mix is right in the house before you commit to being together for a long time. I wonder how Grandma Dubas feels about that, living together before getting married. I'd like to test out the goods before committing a little bit there. What is up with that? Yeah, he was talking specifically about O'Reilly there, but I think it's a point about other guys that they trade for, I guess, and maybe Ochari.

I definitely picture Ochari as more of a pure rental than I would Ryan O'Reilly. Maybe it's on his list he's from here people are saying oh maybe he'll do the maybe he'll do the jeer daniel thing well he's not 40 you know he's 32 years old here he's still got some value i'm doubted he's going to take that sweetheart of a deal but do you want ryan o'reilly at 750 a year yeah Yeah. That sounds good to me. That'll work. Do you know who reps him? Who? Pat Morris. I think he lives in the beaches.

Isn't that his property taxes for you? They don't do the discounts. No? No. No, they don't do discounts. No? No. Oh, well, then he'll take a million then, you know, instead of the $750,000. Yeah, yeah. But he still wants frontline money, I think. think you think i wonder what a charge is

going to be worth you think ryan o'reilly's still looking for frontline money would you would you if ryan o'reilly gave you an option to sign him for say five five times four would you take it five five i have to watch more games yeah i i can't I can't answer that question right now. Is there a thought that maybe his off year, maybe because he's lost a little bit of a step, would that be concerning for you? I've seen a few analytical things in terms of his down year, and there's been a lot written about bad goaltending while he's on the ice, lack of finishing by his line mates.

There's a lot of stuff that says that, you know, had a little bit of an unlucky year in terms of his production. But he's still, I mean, minus 24 is still not pretty, and he still doesn't have as nearly as production. So I think he'd be stupid to look at it and be like, it's purely because he's playing with bad players and can't get a save. There's obviously something there. He's not what he was in 2019,

but I think you have to kind of convince yourself that some of those analytics are correct. Right? Yeah. Well, it's, you know, we talked about Patrick Kane on this show and if you want to go by

numbers, it's like, okay, he's looks atrocious in every different way. Right. One of the worst defensive seasons of all time. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And then you watch him play against the Leafs and it's like, all right, great players can do great things. I mean, that not a great narrative game for these fans last night old kane shooting it in the net a bunch yeah listen okay you know what well i want to get into that game in chicago and kane and all of it i just want to just finish off this conversation because you asked an interesting question moments ago before we got into all that and that was uh achari also a ufa also a guy that stood out this weekend to know that there's more to him and more substance as a bottom six forward

and pretty much anything we've seen up until now yeah so what would that take for the kyle dubas to re-sign achry because I'm thinking if, is he not really cheap right now at one, two or one, four. Yes. And how old is he? 31,

30. So he's going to want, he's going to be looking for a, a yarn crock type of deal. But I think he blows by yarn crock at 2 million. You know what? I don't know. And just looking over his career stats,

like when he was in Florida in 2020 and he scored 20 goals um you know this year he's on a one year 1.25 million dollar contract he didn't get a bigger deal after scoring 20 this year he's got 10 you know like is he gonna get four times two and a half or something i don't know if he'll get four years because only the leafs were um on that for your kooky enough to give yarn crock four years yeah but i i think he could get uh two and a half times three yeah easy but i i don't think dubas cares about that like i said i think i think he's more of a rental than o'reilly no i see i don't agree i think there's a ton of pressure for for kyle hopefully he you know he's still in a position in the summer right to turn around and say hey uh we traded for somebody but we kept him yeah i that's a good

point it's not it's not a rental it was not a rental we traded him and i think in a perfect world they would love to also sign Ryan O'Reilly after seeing success and the depth and maybe getting past Tampa Bay. They get past Tampa Bay. Ryan O'Reilly's going to be looking at an extension. It's only going to be a matter of whether it's good enough for him. Forget the Cup. If they beat Tampa with him and he's a big part of it he's going to go on legends row for winning a first round series

god your bar's so low man legends row for a first round sammy yeah i love you but that's embarrassing you're embarrassing yourself bud you are your bar's so low. Yeah. It's not right. Yeah. Agree. It's pathetic, Kipper. I don't know what to tell you. They did it to you. You didn't do it to yourself.

Yeah. I didn't choose this life. You didn't choose this life. Oh, my God. All right. I could live with that. All right. We got tons still to get into. Oh, my God.

We're going to spend probably the whole two hours uh on this yeah what else are we gonna do i don't know you're gonna tell april 17th isn't there a key matchup in the atlantic division right now between boston and ottawa going on do you want to talk about tyler mott traded i mean that's a big deal we can talk about that we will eventually get to that maybe by thursday or friday all, we're going to take a quick break. As we said, Gord Stelic, Leaf Nation pre- and post-game, former Leaf GM. We're going to break it all down with Stelic-tricity after the break.

You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliott Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wherever you are on this family day, we hope you're enjoying real Kipper and born. We're here breaking down the big trade between the Toronto Maple Leafs, St. Louis, and a little sprinkle of Minnesota.

Let's welcome in a guy that certainly is never lost on opinion on something big. It's Delictricity. So that's where we're going to start. Gord Stelic, welcome aboard. Hope it's a good family day for you. And just your thoughts about Kyle making the tough decision of giving up on Adam Gaudette.

Well, the day just got complete to be part of the family day on your guys' show, so I appreciate that. That's made it perfect. Adam Gaudette, that was a tough one. That was the Adam Gaudette era's come and gone. I guess the tribute video will happen pretty soon.

Hey, you know what? I like it. It's one of those, it's futures obviously down the road, and that's where if you're the St I like it. I mean, it's one of those, it's futures, obviously, down the road, and that's where, if you're the St. Louis Blues or other teams, I mean, you know, you turn to your scouting staff because a 25 to 32 pick is obviously not a blue-blue chip, but, you know, if you have quality scouts, you know, by and large, you turn that into a quality player more often than not.

But anyway, for the Toronto Maple Leafs, no secret. They have to, every cliche, go for go for the fences whatever had to do something i wasn't sure what direction that uh that kyle and the gang were going to go um i i are they done yet i don't know i don't know you know how big they could still possibly go but you know really like you got two guys that are winners you know kippy and you know that intangible from uh you know with the new york rangers winning it all i've got they've gone deep in the playoffs and uh character guy character guys as well i mean uh o'reilly just the background the story the upbringing you know his his parents and bringing in all these different uh different adopted type kids into the family and a great two-way player so just what they needed i i found it boy i was

wondering what was going to happen about the center ice or wing position so john tabaris moving to the wing i mean that that's really the winger that completes the top two lines because i was wondering how it was going to play out would it just be three deep center wise and still had a bit of a void on the the second line wing and i if i don't know if they're going to keep this way but i imagine they will for a while. Then Noah LeCherry, that's the perfect kind of guy because we're saying, you know, you got to upgrade your third or fourth line

and you're trying to think about those kind of players. And that's the perfect kind of guy for that. Yeah, no, certainly. So it is interesting that they went to the lines you mentioned. We talked a little bit about the fit for O'Reilly just being kind of thrust into a spot with Tavares and Marner second power play you know how do you feel about him playing with Tavares you know two not the fastest guys but two very smart sort of elite talents you know are they best separated does

that make a line too slow when they're together or do you think they're just smart enough to figure it out oh I think they're smart enough to figure it out and you know so use the guy that's about as fast a guy as you got as the third member of that line you know just uh yeah uh you know even even last night morgan riley's play dumping it dumping it and mitch marner timing it that it so it's not icing and turning it into a goal i i think you know we're making an assumption that john taveras will move to the wing seamlessly um don't know if that'll be the case or not you know uh're making an assumption that John Tavares will move to the wing seamlessly um don't know if that'll be the case or not you know uh I gotta say certainly he did something very unselfish and team oriented in I mean the guys played center his whole life was the number one

overall pick and you know um making that particular kind of move so I I will say probably Justin a little bit of a work in progress you know in fairness to see because everyone always just assumes everything is going to be cohesive and go great. I have to say their first shift on Saturday, boy, the first two minutes was like, man, oh, man, is this the way it's going to be all the time? Well, it wasn't, but it was just incredibly impressive from the get-go on Saturday. We're talking to Gord Stelic, former Leaf GM, Leaf Nation, pre- and post-game, always here on Sportsnet 590, the fan.

So let's just say, hypothetically, they don't do anything on the blue line from here on in. Gord, are you okay with those assets, a first, a second, a third, or fourth going into two forwards and prioritizing that over defense? Not thrilled. You'd get greedy. You want a little bit of everything. I, you know, again, I don't know what, like,

the Hampus Lindholm type trade isn't, I mean, I guess Chikorin's the equivalent, and that doesn't seem like it's something that the Leafs will be able to entertain. I think, Kippy, you know, the whole Jake Muzzin and the long-term salary save and, you know, how that works out, I'm not sure exactly what kind of money it frees up or not

because there's always been an assumption that you could, that money from there can be used to get a, let's say, Jake Muzzin equivalent, but just a steady D, a steady other piece, a steady depth piece. Because, again, you're hoping to go deep. If you get eliminated in the first round, the depth piece really doesn't matter as much, Because, again, you're hoping to go deep. If you get eliminated in the first round, the depth piece really doesn't matter as much, but the hope is you're going to go deep, so you'll need that. And there still is kind of a bit of a wing and a prayer about the goaltending.

I'd like the goaltending, but as far as compared to Vasilevsky or even what Boston's thrown together, that is kind of unproven on the Leafs side, playoff-wise, at least, you know, with the Leafs. I mean, Matt Murray, we know, is proven in the past with Pittsburgh, but we don't know if he's even going to be healthy at all as far as the playoffs start.

So I would like, in a perfect world, Kippy, I would like one more piece on the blue line. So where is the line where, you know, all we've talked about is how this is a burn the boat situation you're going for it all or nothing and i think kip and sam would agree i'm the most bullish on the trade i like it for the leafs i'm excited but where when is it too much here like if they go out and do it again like you could spend assets forever here and say okay it's nice

it's the 2024 first we're getting every piece we need. You know, what's the line here for you between responsibly going out and saying all or nothing and saying, okay, we said all or nothing, but it can't really be all. So maybe Kyle can dig back to his OHL roots and trade a 2036 first rounder, right? Like they do in these. Well, they can't trade first routers, but second routers, you know? So, you know, Justin, like to your point, and again, it's a little bit about crying over spilt milk, which I,

which I don't hesitate to do is that let's face it. The futures they've traded are comparable, commensurate with a team that's gone to the Stanley cup final and they haven't, right. You know, it's one thing for the Tampa Bay lightning to do it but the Toronto Maple Leafs have done that historically whether it's Nick Foligno or others and yeah you know you can't you cannot make the cupboard completely bare and it's funny that you know when a trade like that this happens on the weekend and it's great to like the trade and and I still don't know why

why Kyle said I wouldn't trade a first-round pick for an expiring contract, and then he did it. He didn't need to say it. I don't care. Do what you want to do. Maybe it's two expiring contracts, so maybe that's the difference. And so all of a sudden, it's all who cares, they're just futures. Like what, is this Cliff Fletcher draft schmaffed again from decades ago

when he said that? Because the other side is then when you're building for the future, you're talking about how important draft picks are and all that. So you can't have it both ways. But it is understood this is a year where you really have to. But to your point, you just can't give away the whole future. That's a little bit different but as far as the other names to just try to get a little bit of a you know i'll use a nick felino a couple years ago that kind of thing

no no you don't you don't do that you're you gotta go sammy we haven't got the official boink yet wow how's that it's good that's like not the prices right when you just lost all your Sammy. We haven't got the official boink yet. Wow. Boink, boink, boink, boink. How's that? It's good. That's like, isn't that the prices, right? When you just lost all your cash? Yeah.

We lost Gord Stelic. That's equivalent to cash on our show. It is. We lost all of our Gord Stelic bucks. Sammy's been on a bad run this month. Poor Sammy. I will not stand for this. I will not stand for this. I will not stand for this. I don't know what I could do.

We're calling that the Gord Stelic right there. I think it's Sammy's game plan to drop more gas. More air time for him? Yeah. Like, okay, finally they're going to say, okay, get him out of that side of the glass. Yeah. Just stick him on the desk. He can't produce, this guy.

Can't produce. Right. Can't make phone calls. He's sending guests five-minute prepaid airtime cards so they run out halfway through. You're on the space shuttle? Yeah. Just call in. Sure.

Yeah. All right. It looks like he's got him back on the horn there. All right. He's back. We got him back on the horn there. All right. He's back. We go sell towers by the dog pound. Hey, Gord. You know, I pay the electricity bill.

I don't pay the phone bill, I guess. I got to figure that one out. I don't know. I don't know. So in my dissertation, I was basically saying, yeah, you can't sell. You cannot completely mortgage the future at all. You still have to, you know, there still has to be some accountability and responsibility that way. There we go.

As far as Matthew Nyes, is it pretty much a given that you were able to make this trade without giving him up? Therefore, there was never an intention to move him, and he is very much slotted into the roster once he finishes his duties in Minnesota? So, yeah, it looks like it, and I'm excited about Matthew Nice, but is he Connor McDavid?

Like, I mean, like, geez, like, okay. Like, seriously, he sounds like a blue-chip prospect, which is great, but we've been through this before, you know, that it doesn't necessarily always turn out. But if you can make trades and not give up a first round pick and or not give up a top prospect that's great so um you know from what we understand this guy is a a quality blue chip prospect so that's great that they haven't given him up but i don't i mean again i don't know what other piece it would have to be something big to involve something like that.

But also I hope, I hope Matthew Nise is as advertised because they've traded away so many picks. They've got a guy got to have guys coming in that they're developing from within. Yeah, no doubt about that. And what's going to be interesting is like the spots they need guys to fill

now are primarily at the bottom of the forward group. What are your thoughts on, you know, old Pontus Holmberg had an unbelievable run here and they're like, eh, throw him to the side. Bobby McMahon's got 13 goals in his last 13 games in the minors. Zach Aston Reese hanging on. Like, what does Noel Achari and Ryan O'Reilly do to the bottom of the Leafs order?

Yeah, so, you know, your point there, Justin, because the excitement about Matthews, Marner, and Nylander all coming at once. I mean, Nylander developed a bit with the Marlies, as you know, was also just in a short period of time, and names you weren't really expecting came out of the Marlies, like especially Zach Hyman, Connor Brown, Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Janssen. Like there all of a sudden was a supporting cast that was a real pleasant surprise, and all of them are gone mainly because of cap reasons.

So ever since then have been trying to get that kind of third and fourth line depth that they had a few years ago. So it still seems like it's a work in progress, and you're right. There just seems to be glimmers of different players that impress and then don't impress and obviously the the simple thing here is two players move to lesser lines two players move to the press box and two players move to the Toronto Marlies to make room for two forwards coming from St. Louis and yeah just simply O'Reilly makes your top six better and Achari makes your bottom six better but six better. But I guess I'm going back a bit when I think of Berg, Zezel, Osborne.

I know that's a long time ago, but you'd like to have something set in stone a little bit more, like that kind of line that you're not continually trying them in game number 70. It just seems, to your point, that they get on not quite a Jack Hughes heater, and then all of a sudden they're out of the mix. You were a general manager for the Toronto Maple Leafs last night. You make this significant trade, and I heard the post-game comments, a few of the comments about being tired or not being ready, yada, yada, yada. You have Matthews, Nylander, Marner, O'Reilly, Tavares,

Morgan Reilly in your lineup. And the two best players on the ice last night were Pat Kane and Max Domi. Like, would that not have pissed Kyle off just a tad? Yeah, it should. It should. Like, you know, what is it we in the media now talk about back to back oh the Leafs back-to-back days well why don't they forfeit the game set like what do we like can you give me a break about you know just that these these built-in excuses and and you know that they're

they're one you know and the better part is don't do it at home okay that's the big thing okay like don't do what you did a week ago Saturday with Columbus at home. If you're going to suck, do it on the road. But the other part is, yeah, like, details, details, details. There's got to be a better commitment with these weaker teams, which they have a pretty ordinary record about. So I know what's going to happen from time to time. We all know that.

You're not going to get 82 gems. But, yeah, you know, you got that trade. You got that energy. You got that vibe. You had it on saturday you should have had it sunday we know chicago has been a team what they got shut out by montreal a couple of days ago you know good on good on patty kane showing everybody if they're wondering about his health and his skill on that that he's actually at a pretty good place whatever his next destination may be but yeah i don't i don't like i don't like these little things because these are the kind of habits that, you know,

creep in again when you're in the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs and you win, like, that Montreal series. You can't close out games that you should be able to close out. You know, we haven't really touched a whole ton on the games from the weekend, obviously, with the big news here. But Ilya Samsonov plays and plays I'll just say poorly uh in you know on Saturday night Murray still not playing and still not a part of it here have things changed for you like towards the deadline like do they need a goalie are you

more worried than you were you know a month ago I'm I was worried to start the year I'm not more worried than a month ago it's still a bit of the start of the year i'm not more worried than a month ago it's still a bit of the show me i will tell you one thing on saturday justin that i i i've liked what i've seen of joe wall and joe wall is up this time you know based on merit not by default you know and and again you go back to matt murray all those years ago with the pittsburgh penguins and he's a guy that came up big was playing great in Wilkes-Barre and came up big. It wasn't the ideal situation that he had to play so many playoff games, but he did it.

Jordan Bennington did it a couple of years ago. They honored Cam Ward in Carolina. He did it all those decades ago. And so I've liked that particular piece, adding the depth, but no, the goaltending continues to be a little bit of show me. And they've certainly showed so far in

the regular season that went healthy um they deserve the confidence i mean i don't know who else is out there you're not going to getting david riddick again isn't the answer uh they're not they're not going to trade vasilevsky or anything like that so outside of that like i'm okay with the goaltending i i wish it was like the days of ed balfour and curtis joseph where you had six years that the least started the playoffs and you said you know what uh we the least are not going to get out goaltended by anybody you're not able to say that did kane last night make a statement to everybody that yeah that um i'm in play and everybody's kind of forgotten about me and uh i'm oh by the way i've

got three stanley cups and considered one of the best chicago blackhawk in history yeah yeah i think you know very quietly whether he says it i mean you got three stanley cups but he's got to be pissed off for a while pissed off the direction it happened with a sudden you know they get seth jones and it looks like they're going to get one more kick at it. Then all of a sudden they do a complete, complete retool on the fly. Even a number three over pick overall pick Kirby Doc, which I think would be part if you're doing a retool, is one of the guys sent elsewhere. So I think I think on and on. It hasn't it hasn't been a fun time for him in Chicago. And, you know, you didn't see this happening.

He's been a good soldier. And again, the Ranger thing, I loved his candor about it. So I think whether it's the Chicago wouldn't meet the price or the Rangers flat out preferred Tara Sanko is pissed them off even more. So I think he, that's kind of where he went out and made a statement that there's still, there's still a lot left at Patty game.

Yeah. It's he's, he's certainly one of the more interesting names out there, but he ain't going to be a Toronto Maple Leaf at this point. So, you know, trade grade overall here, Gordon, the last one for me is just what do you think here? Is it a win or a loss for Leafs Nation? Well, whatever. Okay, when they win a playoff round, it'll be a win right now. But right now I'll give it a win. I'll give it a win. They had to,

they had to do something. I wasn't sure which direction Kyle was going to go, but I really liked those pieces where, you know, you think of Nick Foligno a couple of years ago, there were questions. And of course he wasn't a hundred percent in that, but you, you had hope, right? In this case, uh, I i like i like these pieces and i like the winning the playoff experience pedigree all right stella tricity we're gonna let you go thanks for doing this pal enjoy the rest of your family day i will i'm just gonna mail my phone bill in you guys have a good one thanks gordon stelic pre and post game on the fan 590 leaf nation you know um kyle was asked if he would have made this

trade if he had an extension like this is a full dubious would you do this i think it was maybe kevin mcgrann or would it was kevin mcgrann that asked him which is a great question it's a good question you're only gonna get one answer but You know the answer. Why is it a great question? Okay. There's different types of things that you do in this world where it's self-serving and serving to the public, asking a question that you know the answer to but needs to be asked. So you can have a quote to put in print? Yep. Let's hear his answer.

I operate the same way. I understand that that's a topic, but as I've discussed before, and I would operate the same way regardless of what my status was and just in doing what's right for the organization and the team. Way to go. And thus the ongoing distraction. Right. That's a good point.

Right. We're talking about a thing we don't need to be talking about. Exciting trade. I got to tell you, this seems like a guy making a trade that knows his contract's done doesn't it i said burn the boats it feels like a burn the boats trade oh no this is go big or go home time yeah you don't get two cracks at uh a nick felino first and a fourth and uh first second third and fourth and yeah not have anything to show for it. Two years. This is it.

Don't you kind of feel like that he knows either way? Yeah, he knows it. Even if they get past the first round, maybe he knows he's gone. That's... I think it's highly unlikely. I think a first round could save him an opportunity to get it.

A first round. Yeah, this is your bar. This is your bar I'm speaking of. It's a collective bar. And again, we'd have to see how much fight they have in the second round. Like, in all honesty, you can build up a great first round win and then do what the florida did against tampa bay just go to war with tampa if you lose four bad games to the boston bruins in the second round and get swept are you really are you really

excited about the thought that this that this team was built right no that's a great point um it was florida who lost in the second round tampa bay before they traded hubert owen week yeah they struggled with they struggled with the caps in the first round but they went to six or seven the caps were pretty good and so still they came out of that like we're not good enough it really for me it it all boils down to brendan shanahan and how much faith he has in kyleas. That's it. You know what? Brendan can sell it one way or another, I think, to the board. I would just be, I don't know.

Like, I have a really hard time seeing the Leafs get blown out in either of these series. They always play both, like, Tampa and Boston. They're a good team, man. I know, but they play those two teams. Yeah, they are a good team. I know, and they're better now. but they play those two teams they are a good team i know and they're better now and they roll and they play those teams tight but they all the time they just

find ways to leak oil a little bit it's a mistake here it's a mistake there as we're talking about this is like if they win that first round even if they get swept the next round it's like two extra weeks of hockey entertainment they're gonna say content it's like four days five days to the next series then you get the games then you get the post now we're down now we're up to like 10 000 youtube watchers sammy's a celebrity sammy's getting he's getting free stuff from uh uh titleist and what taylor may i am is that happening let's go to the second round bud you're getting oh my god Why would you say that? Trying to be on location doing the show.

That's the only time I get free stuff. It's hinges. Yes. Hinges on O'Reilly's success. Yet another thing that hinges on the success of this goddamn hockey team. Okay. One more before we go to break. And this is Pat Kane.

Please. And what he was able to do last night and the look that he had. Yeah. Now, I'm going to set aside whether or not he was interested in Toronto or Toronto was on a list. We know the report came out from Carlos that said that only two teams that he would go to, and he kind of put water on that a little bit uh yesterday let's set that aside for a second if you thought you were getting pat kane from last night would you have thought of him as

a better addition to the leafs top six than ryan o'reilly so i don't sexy or no doubt i don't want to be this guy where it's like you know i'm what if well no no no it's not that it's that i don't want to be this guy where it's like, you know, I'm what if, well, no, no, no, it's not that it's that I don't, I don't think that. And I don't want to be like, it's the Leafs who, you know, the Leafs made the trade. So I'm behind it. Whoever it is. Like I genuinely would have preferred Ryan O'Reilly to Kane face-offs, penalty kill leadership. Yeah.

Center depth, D zone, high IQ, you know, playoff, the type of guy, you know playoff the type of guy the leafs lack the type of need the leafs had all right but boy watching king shoot three in the net it's always like oh right i feel i feel a little vindicated because you know i wanted patrick and the least been talking about this for i feel like a year and a half we've been mentioning this and everyone says he's washed up and done and it's like you see him in a game with a little bit of motivation, and he lights it up. He could have had five goals in that game. He was the best player on the ice on both teams. I still think there's a possibility he goes nowhere,

and it may have to do with the fact that there's just too hard. There's just not enough teams. 10-5 is just such a huge number. Even double retention, you're at three, you know, whatever it is just 10-5 is just such a huge number even double retention you're at three you know whatever it is 2.5 i'm just praying for myself and my beloved leaf nation that if he like the ideal scenario is go nowhere because if he somehow you know tampa with their fake salary cap and you know the different rules down there and they figured that out as the team to me carolina boston one of these eastern conference teams that figures it out and puts them on there he'd have to really put himself out there to say for sure anywhere i think i think you're right

rod brindamore want pat kane is that what he feels they're lacking you know knowing the type of player he is and the thing is with pat kane that you are, you really forced to put him in a position to succeed. Yeah. And that, that's as a ripple effect on chemistry and what you already have going for you. And you don't necessarily want to mess with that. Yeah. And like Ryan O'Reilly has the good pro factor,

you know, where you feel like if, you know, if he doesn't score, it's okay. You like what else he does. For Kane, if he doesn't score it's okay you like what else he does for kane if he doesn't score what's he doing and you mentioned tampa bay it's like kucherov owns that spot the one that he wants i think oh no flank yeah yeah good point so that's it for them now you gotta kind of share a little bit flank uh're the P2 flank, Pat Swing. I'm off at 45 seconds. Yeah, we need to get the good player back on, Pat. Listen. Oh, Q Manchin. Just please not Tampa.

You want Tampa to make no trades from here on in. If Tampa Bay. I think you want Tampa to get good. If Tampa, yeah, when he scores six goals in seven games against the Leafs and everyone's like, wow, they should have traded for him. That'd be fun. It'd be Hall and Foligno 2.0. Okay, we're going to take a quick break break jamal mayors is going to join us former nhl forward sportsnet hockey

analyst and uh someone that knows the blues really well we'll uh we'll talk about ryan o'reilly's legacy in st louis and what his future lies in toronto short or long term jamal after the break you're watching and listening. And hey, give us a thumbs up on YouTube. Real Kipper inborn back after these words. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Just waiting on Jamal Mayers. See how fast Sammy is. See, I insult him a little bit. And now he's on his best behavior. Jamal, how are you, pal? I'm doing well. How are you? We're good. You know how it is here in Leaf Nation. And, you know, map out the parade, man.

What do you think? Give us your thoughts on it when you first heard about it. Well, I like it for obviously two reasons. I think that, first of all, Ryan O'Reilly hasn't had a great year, but he has a winning pedigree and obviously was a captain for a reason. I think that he'll take whatever role is given to him and certainly wants to extend his career and set himself up well for unrestricted free agency at the end of the year and an

opportunity to win with a team that's poised to do so and then you think about Noel Achari and what he's able to do comes from a winning pedigree and and a right-hand shot play center it makes them tougher to play against it makes them deeper I'm a little perplexed I don't want to digress but I'm a little perplexed why they're choosing to move Tavares, who's arguably one of the best centermen in his generation, to the wing, bringing in O'Reilly and Achari. Doesn't that give you four amazing centermens down the middle? Doesn't it make you better to move O'Reilly to the three-hole?

You're not going to hurt his feelings. And why would you disrupt the top six that were rolling all season long? I don't understand that part. Jamal, we've been on enough teams where we know sometimes, and I'm not suggesting that this is the case here, but we've been involved with teams where egos can come into play. Would Tavares be slated at all that he lost his second line spot to to move over to a position that he's not overly maybe uh you know comfortable or used to all these

years thousand percent and and i think that i don't i don't think we should characterize it as him being selfish or being his feelings are hurt or anything of that nature. He has proven over time he is an amazing centerman who can do a lot of things from a center-right position. I would argue that O'Reilly is very similar to Tavares in the sense that they're not blazing fast, but they're unbelievably gifted below the hash mark and can finish around the net and can create. It wouldn't be my inclination to play them together.

I think Jan Krook has done an amazing job with that group. And if anyone's upset, it probably is him because he's like, why am I being demoted? I have more points than this guy. And, you know, at the end of the day, I get it. You want to make sure he feels wanted and feels welcome. But knowing O'Reilly, I think he'd be fine being the third-line center in a winning team in a winning environment.

So I would be surprised if they don't go to that a little bit sooner than we think. So Jammer, tell us about Ryan O'Reilly's season to date. You mentioned it's a little bit of a down year. You know, he's a 50, 60 point guy. The last couple of seasons this year, you know, on pace for 20 goals and 30 some points. What's happened?

Have there been injuries? Is something gone on? Tell us about his season that has brought him to this point. Yeah, they've had a really difficult time finding someone that complements his skill set. I think that he had great chemistry with David Perron, who moved on to the Red Wings. Both of them like to play the wall game below the hash marks and give and go and around the net and that's what their forte was and certainly had a lot of success in staying connected and doing those things. I think it's been tough for Chief to find a line mate that complements O'Reilly's skill set.

He doesn't skate the best so he's not going to create too much off the rush. He likes to play the down-low game, and he has to have someone that wants to play off of him and play that little soft pick game and get to the net and little, little, stinky little passes, give and goes that he does so well. I think they've tried so many different forwards there and, in my opinion, tried to force-feed it where I think that the team had transitioned toward Kyrou and Thomas a little bit, and maybe it was perhaps time for him to take lesser of a role,

and he wasn't producing, and I think they stuck with it because they have so much respect for him as a person. But like all of us, we get a little bit older and things change, and it's time to take a different role. And I think that that's where he is in his career, but he's still an effective player. But I don't see him in a top six role. And I apologize if he's upset for me saying that,

but I think that he's a power play guy. On a winning team, he's an amazing third-line center that gives a team a chance to win. Jammer, how bothered would he be with a minus 24 and he goes into Chicago, I think he ends up dash two as well. For a guy that's got, again, this pedigree of being this great 200-foot guy, where's the explanation on that type of number? It's not good. I think that when you're not creating five-on-five,

I think that last year the Blues kind of – you're getting a better picture of where they are, and I think Army understands that and is doing the things to get them, you know, retooled as quickly as possible. But let's be honest, they had nine guys have 20 or more goals. That's not happening again. I don't know if there's another team that's done that this year, but a lot of players overachieved.

And so it kind of hit. And then their power play and penalty kill were in the top five of the league in both categories. So it hit a lot of their errors and deficiencies five-on-five defending. I think that a lot of it can't just be on him. They didn't get great goaltending. Their D is not as good as it has been in years past, certainly not what it was in 2019 when they won.

And so as a forward, some of that's going to lean on you, and you're going to have to pay the price because you're going to get scored on five-on-five, and you're not creating enough five on five so I think a combination of a number of things I wouldn't say his game has fallen off that much I think there's still a lot there and I am excited for him to see what he can do with you know a few more you know a more talented roster and he's going to get better matchups if he does end up being in that three hole. Yeah that's that's definitely a good thing for him. And as you mentioned, heading towards UFA, that's part of what he would be looking for.

And so I wanted to get more on him. You would know him a little bit being around St. Louis. What do you think he would want after this season? I don't necessarily mean dollars, but I'd be happy to hear that too. But like what, you know, what are the priorities for a guy like Ryan O'Reilly at this point in his career? I think it's to extend his career.

And I think he still believes and I still think he does have a lot to offer. I think that he's a guy who is a great example for younger players as far as his preparation, the way that he shows up to the rink and just his habits. I think that that'll be just, you know, experienced by us most is for younger people to be around and see another guy who's just, you know, we've all been around guys like that, right, that are just take their craft so seriously in preparation and things. I think that we all as players kind of, oh, wow,

I'm going to take a little bit of what he does. I like the way he does that and kind of, you know, make it a part of your own game. And I think that there will be a lot of young guys that are going to watch him and try to emulate some of the things that he does. He's a professional, and I think that he's won a cup. He's won the consmite. There's a lot of hockey left in him.

I think that as you do get older, as you get past 30, I was lucky enough to play to 38. You've got to stay quick. So you have to give up some strength, in my opinion, to stay fast. And I started to train more like a track athlete so that even when I retired, you know, my hands were never there, but at least I could still skate. The wheels, baby. You've got to have the wheels.

We're joined with Jamal Mayers, Sportsnet Hockey Analyst, former National Hockey League forward. Jammer, in terms of priorities, they went with two forwards, giving up the depth on draft picks. Would that have been your first choice in a perfect world? Well, let's be honest. They're coming to the end, right? It sounds silly that when I say the end, I think their window is closing,

which is just inevitable because you have to win with really good players on their entry-level contracts. When you win and you have success, you lose those players. It's so much harder to keep your team together. So I think that the time is against them, and I think they recognize that the time is now on the team. I think it's a reward. I think that's what happens, right, is you play really well,

as they had all season long, and the organization rewards you as a group to say, hey, listen, we believe in this group. We're going to give you guys a little to say, hey, listen, we believe in this group. We're going to give you guys a little bit of a nudge and a push. I think they've had some younger Ds step up and really outperform and push other guys. And perhaps their need to go out and get a step D is lessened. I'd still like them to do something, to be honest. Just it's nice to have a couple extra guys that have experience and can help in the room uh assuming you go on a long run so uh but i like i

like their team i think they the time is now for this group so it's an exciting time to be a leaf fan it's crazy that the blues have pulled the plug i don't want to say pull the plug on a season but you know they're not fully out of the playoffs. I guess it's a pretty long shot now. Sending Achari is a piece for the Leafs we're really happy to get. What can Leafs fans expect to see? Does he fight? What can we anticipate he'll bring to the Leafs? No, he doesn't have to fight.

He plays a hard game game he plays a predictable game he's a straight line guy he's going to manage the puck well he's going to uh go to the front of the net he's going to finish his checks he's going to win face-offs he's he's everything you want a bottom six guy to be and he plays with enough pace um to keep you know to keep the game going and to keep make sure that you're playing at a high tempo and understands his role. And I think that there's very few guys that really understand their role because everybody wants to come in and be what they were in college or junior.

The nice thing about Achari, I think the biggest asset he has is that he knows what he is and who he is as a player. And he perfects it night after night. And you're going to get a consistent effort from him. And that's something that I think that Sheldon Keefe and his staff will come to. And I know Chief did really admire about his game. As far as the St. Louis Blues, you know that market well being down there. It doesn't appear to me like this is an organization or Doug Armstrong's got a city that would welcome, you know,

going away for the next three or four years while they recoup. No, no, I don't think that that, I think that most of the fan base is a little surprised at the regression. And I think I kind of pointed to two reasons perhaps why that happened, but this is probably where they are. I think sometimes it's a good thing. That's my hope, you know, is that these things force you to make decisions and changes in your lineup

versus making the playoffs and kind of skipping by, and then you don't really change things. I think it's going to force them to reevaluate their back end. It's going to force them to evaluate some of the things they're doing up front. One guy that I think would really be a huge loss, and it looks like they may not be able to sign him, is Barbashev. I think that he's a guy in a winning team that many teams probably are and should be coveting.

And it'll be interesting to see what happens to him. I'd like to see him stay, but time will tell. But you know what? Army, he's been around for a long time and knows this team extremely well. And I have every confidence that he'll get this group back on track here maybe two years, maybe three years. But I think that they'll be back from contending very shortly. Is there another big name in, say, Colton Pareko?

Because you're starting to hear that name out there a little bit more with this kind of mini fire sale. Yeah, I think, honestly, I would be shocked if he is not on the list of available players. I think he's had a down year. Whether or not this is actually who he is as a player or if it's more what he was a couple years ago, I think they're figuring that out. But I believe he has, what, seven or eight years left where he's entering into his new contract here. So maybe a little bit more difficult because it'll be a pure hockey trade to move him. But, you know, it's funny.

There's always people here in St. Louis that want him to be Chris Pronger and have a little bit more edge to his game. And he's the nicest guy you could ever meet. It's just not who he is. And I think that as a fan base and perhaps as an organization, they've wanted him to show glimpses of that meanness in relative terms to today's game. And perhaps that's just not who he is,

but he does bring a lot of assets to the table as far as how he can skate and play in all situations. Maybe perhaps he was hidden and insulated behind Bo Meester and Petrangelo and really isn't the guy to be able to carry top two minutes. Well, we'll just have to wait and see. It's closing in fast this March trade deadline. Jamal, thanks for doing this, man.

Really appreciate it. I appreciate it, guys. Thanks. Thanks, Jamer. All right. Pareko turns 30. Yeah, go ahead. And that contract is until 2030. Oh, wow.

At what, six and a half? Six and a half six and a half yeah 2030 2030 so he would be very intriguing but that's just it's too much and the man has had back issues and i hopefully it's all cleared up and it's a non-issue but people are sniffing around tory krug too like i've always been a big tory crew fan watching him big fan he with the boston bruins he gave me nightmares on the bruins yeah he with good reason he just exploded that was in the uh that was in the final against the blues remember he's got his bucket knocked off and he was so pissed off he came flying down with no hair flying everywhere. He's a good player. He is.

What's interesting, you know, Doug Armstrong to me is one of the best GMs in the NHL. I've always been impressed with his work, his willingness to trade, say, Stastny while the team's in the hunt, Shattenkirk while the team's in the hunt, to recognize what his team is at this year and pull the plug. You easily could have said, we want to cup with these guys. Ryan O'Reilly is our captain.

We need to add. We need to do what the Islanders are doing, which is going all in on a team that's probably just not good enough. And now, listen, they've stockpiled here. They got picks. Picks. Three firsts this year. And they're not going to have a fire sale i don't think on braden

chen or bruce nevich or kairu thomas like we had him on the show what a month ago jammer no doug armstrong oh yeah we did right yes and what did he say i remember i i can who's got the concussions i killed some brain cells yeah yeah that's right time for you to plug your book now down and back in stores now uh but he's that's that's the core group now yeah yeah and he mentioned that kairu and thomas in that interview which i do remember um you know we're teams would tank to get those guys remember him saying he's that high on them so he knows what he has and it's not a full rebuild as much as uh the new cool term the retool they've got yeah they've got three firsts this year two thirds and then two sec like they they could take those assets turn them into players

immediately if they feel like they want to turn things around. I've always just liked the Blues. I don't know. They're just something about them. Likeable franchise. Likeable franchise. Great jerseys. Always competitive teams.

Good players. And, yeah, I agree with you on Doug Armstrong. Well, he was picked to run Team Canada. So they obviously think he's pretty good. That's pretty good. All right. I think we touched a little bit on Pat Kane here. But overall, Sammy, I know that loss last night really pissed you off.

Yeah. Listen. Yeah, too much. Relax. I've taken a beating on this weekend on Twitter and amongst my friends and everything. You made a hard pivot. Mr. Negative. And it's like, God, I don't want to be like this.

But I thought they paid too much for Ryan O'Reilly. Still love Ryan. Two things can be true. As my good friend JD Bunkus likes to say, two things can be true. I like Ryan O'Reilly. Thought they paid too much. Secondly, I hated that game last night.

And for all the reasons that Gord said when you guys talked about it. It was like, yeah, you know, you can be tired and still win a hockey game like you know it's two nights in a row it's the worst team in the league you need points tampa's sniffing down your neck you just had this kick in the butt trade you should probably win that hockey game you're gonna have to say the other thing doesn't matter it doesn't matter it was kind of well documented that samsonov's not a hundred percent yeah he

documented it do we have a did he go on record yeah well i didn't cut the clip because he swears and i don't want to put that through and it doesn't it doesn't know our show i know but i don't want to make you knew i don't want to make derrick play the clip and have it swear and then we got to talk about it so i just i think it doesn't it seems like an executive decision i did make the executive i am after all it's hard to remember sometimes i am the producer of this show so i made the executive decision i did make the executive i am after all it's hard to remember sometimes i am the producer of this show so i made the executive decision so and a bad one by that it just doesn't sound as good when it's like oh i spent all day on the beep doesn't sound as good so he went to

the poop machine a lot derrick's a professional he would have made it sound fantastic all right anyways he was pooping all day so why did you he play? Why did he play? I completely agree. It's the Chicago Blackhawks. I couldn't agree more. You just got Ryan O'Reilly. A huge dump. Got Achari on the fourth line now. Come on.

And do you not want to reward Eric Shulgren for what he did for the team for the start of the year? I mean, he kept this team afloat to start the season. Joe Wall gets a game. Throw Shully another game. year he i mean he kept this team afloat to start the season joe wall gets a game give shawley another another samsonov i get it but he didn't look good oh he looked awful in fact i thought he was shaky i thought he was squirrely from the start he spun around he's behind like a little poopy in there you just and that's just another one for your mindset that would bother of would bother him because you can't underestimate the pressure like he's not a stupid kid samson off he knows

the the the two-time stanley cup champion that's supposed to be one and 1A with you is nowhere to be found with his high ankle sprain. Oh, good luck getting over that this year as a goalie. High ankle sprain. He knows he's it. Don't tell me it's not wearing on him

right now. Yeah, I mean, it makes no sense because they're so careful with everyone and they want to give everyone all the time in the world to get better and then to chuck in a guy who's not feeling good. Don't, like, AHL goalies play two nights in a row a lot?

Yeah. Why don't, like, Wall was really good on Saturday night. I wouldn't say maybe really good as steep. Put him back in. He was fine. Yeah, put him back in. It wasn't high stress. He didn't want to go back in. It wasn't a high really good as steep. Put him back in. He was fine. Yeah. Put him back in. It wasn't high stress. It wasn't a high stress night. Just put him right back in.

Why not? But what I was going to say about the game when I said you're going to hate what I have to say about it. Expected goals. They had the puck the whole night. The game didn't go their way. Pat Kane shot one off his back. The goalie's sick and doesn't play overly well, but they had the puck in Chicago's end the whole night.

It was everything that could have gone wrong went wrong for them. Can we listen to Sheldon Keefe, though? And I know you're not going to agree with my take that they put in a good effort, but let's just have a Keefe on being tired. Well, there's some things that, you know, some things that we did. When you're tired, you got to be really smart and structured and all of that. Some of the clean looks we gave up tonight are the result of just not being smart. I mean, the game-winning goal comes off of a four-man rush,

and that ends up being an odd-man rush the other way. It's something that we talked about this morning because a very similar play happened yesterday. It came back to hurt us again tonight. So those kind of mistakes you continue to look at. But in terms of the energy and the execution of the group, we knew this was going to be a tough one today. Okay, so you just heard the man saying we're dumb. We get a four-man rush.

The game's tied. We're going late now. Where is Brody going? Where is Kempf? He's coming off the wing. Like, what are you going to go score the game-winning goal right now? I text you guys those extremely leafy moments. That was a depressing moment for me.

3-3. You don't have, you're the better team. You stick with it like the early season, and it'll come. And they force it they get obsessed with offense like oh we're close we're close we're close we hit a post and then you forget about the other way it's so bad so bad that was the dumbest that fourth goal i don't care about your stats then i don't care if you're just if the game when it matters most and you're dumb what do i care about 99 of the stats that are telling me

that you're great in these moments, but not great in this moment? In theory, you do it enough, it should work out in their favor. Those glasses are really suited. You know, like it should go better, but yeah, you're right. And trying to eliminate that catastrophic mistake is going to be key for them in the playoffs when we know how Tampa can expose them. So we did the bottom,

I remember how it was like the bottom eight, the record against. Yeah. We're upgrading it to the bottom five now. Oof. Bottom five teams, the record this season, the Bruins. They have played nine games against them they have won eight of them the lightning have played nine they've won seven of them

the leafs have played uh 10 and they've won four of them against bottom five teams yeah they've lost okay what is going on that ain't pretty boys i'm sorry like that, that's wasted points. They've lost to each of the bottom eight teams in the league. Why? Why? Because they're just not mentally strong enough to just be pros and play when you're supposed to play well? I don't know. I bet this is the stuff that keeps Sheldon Keefe up at night. Absolutely. And a few psychiatrists. Yeah.

I imagine part of the reason you get Ryan O'Reilly in is just another guy who's a pro, who does it the right way. Yada, yada, yada. But then they treated him immediately to the house tour of the haunted house. It's so true. It was like, while you're here, we're going to show you exactly what we are. We're going to route a team one night, and then we're going to show you what else we can be. The basement, it's still dirt floor.

We're working on it. Jeez. You want to feel comfortable? Just take a minus two tonight. Yeah. You'll fit right in. Listen, he was no good against the Blackhawks. He was good in the first game.

Yeah, he was. There's still lots of stuff in that Ozone that I like. I actually, as much as I'm with you, that Tavares and Marner are probably not the right line. They make so many little cheeky plays and little one touches to one another. Like it's fun to watch. And I will say this is something that Kipper's

really going to care about, but I have been pro. He's great in the Leafs jersey. I've been pro Bieber. He does look great in the Leafs jersey. He's got great hockey style. I've been pro Bieber jersey. I hate that jersey. Burn it. It's time. It's look great in the Leafs jersey. He's got great hockey style. I've been pro Bieber jersey. I hate that jersey. Burn it.

It's time. It's time. Burn it. Never again. It's like watching an open practice. And my eyes are getting worse, so I've got to go get my eyes checked again to get thicker contacts. Last time you went, didn't they let you not drive home because they were so bad? No, I've been to it twice since then.

There's nothing that says less to me the Toronto Maple Leafs than that jersey last night in Chicago. I liked it when it first came out. It was something new. But you can't really tell. I'm so sorry for Bonesy and Ralphie and, you know, CeCe and Sammer that have to call the games. Because how the hell do you read those numbers from the press box?

It's impossible. The reverse retros that are. Literally the nicest jerseys they've ever worn have just been sent to dust. So the guy not to discuss jerseys. I know you're not. And I'm telling you,

I hate them. They're awful. It's time. That's the end of it. It's gotta be. I think it's time. Is that the last time they're gonna use them?

I will say right now that I will put within... I'll put in a couple calls and say they'll never wear them again. Nice work, Sam. And yeah, Ryan O'Reilly, great hockey style. Good bucket. My son just lost his front tooth and I showed him o'reilly he's like all right cool any uh surprise on jonathan uh taves taking himself out of the equation here

yeah long covid man it's no joke he's not feeling right like that's it's a scary wake-up call for anybody who's dealing with that there's lots of people dealing with it and yeah NHL probably hard if that increases his odds of staying in Chicago to me it's like now he's not gonna have that weird taint of having gone to a random other team or something you know they've looked after him through this they've you know will he now when's left I don't think they want them back you don't eh no you know what I don't blame them as hard back You don't, eh? You know what, I don't blame them As hard as that is to say, it's like we're starting fresh It's a new room, a new core I don't blame them

But if Taves wants to play there For three million dollars Are they going to say no? How about Pat Kane then? If Pat Kane wants to come back and he says I've made a lot of money here I've won my three Stanley Cups. I want to retire Chicago Blackhawk.

How does Kyle Davidson, who is Kyle Davidson to tell Pat Kane? No. It's funny because like, what's the number? That ain't a fun situation. Because what's the number? If it's 5 million or something, I can see you'd be like, no, you know what? We just, we don't want to do that. But if it's.

You're not, it's, you're not expected to win the stanley cup right cap's not an issue right so like five six seven it won't matter spend it on guys going the other way that you can work on and develop so what do you say pat kane can't help your team and bring these kids along is that what dollar amount you know that's it won't be an issue though right they're not a cap team they're not uh they're not full yeah so he says five or six how does that make you feel when players of that ilk would be willing and they haven't said they are but like yeah you know i certainly felt ryan getzlaff not wanting to leave anaheim when and just kind of playing out the career it's anti-competitive to me which is kind of the point of being in the nhl isn't it

don't you want to win team's not trying to win yeah listen we we could say that for a lot of guys that uh have chosen not to go other places to try to win. And there's real pride, though, I get it, being a one-Jersey guy. Like, I understand that. If you're a Hall of Fame-level player, you've won Cups. It's not even a criticism. They're not all Ray Bork, who, again, didn't get it. Didn't get it 17, 19 times.

I don't know. Finally goes to Colorado and gets one. But Pat Kane's got three. Maybe I don't have it high on our priority. I'll't know. Finally goes to Colorado and gets one, but Pat Kane's got three. Maybe I don't have it high on our priority. I'll say this. I wouldn't blame them. And it might be a decision I personally would make as a guy who would be in his thirties.

Maybe you got kids, family, whatever. But when you look at the greats and their competitiveness, whether it's Michael Jordan and LeBron or it's, you know, Sidney Crosby or whatever, you just can't see the true greats of the sport saying, I don't care if I win this year. Michael Jordan and LeBron or it's, you know, Sidney Crosby or whatever.

You just can't see the true greats of the sport saying, I don't care if I win this year. That's hard to see and unlikely. I agree. Okay. All right. Oilers, four in a row. Can't close out a good lead.

They lost two 3-0 leads in the last week. that right they're pulling a vancouver yeah they were i watched that game yesterday they are ungood defensively wow that's a broken record i know so i wonder if ken holland sees the leafs do something he's feeling a little bit of the pressure too you better it's a gettable division i would hope so you have literally the maybe the greatest player to ever lace them up on your team who by the way is embarrassing the league yes he is 20 points up on second and scoring right now he's got over 40 goals over 100 points it's february he's on fire hey listen they're they're like three or four other teams looking for defense and also how many are out there they're trying jack campbell's like

trying to keep he's a screen door trying to keep water out watch him just move on i mean the show saying sam before the show like the the one that goes in the screenshot he's kind of screened but he could not make himself smaller in the net it's just like his confidence he's just a different goaltender the way i've been playing oh god how about our uh good buddy uh uh walshie alan walsh kind of woke up calgary a little bit big win uh jonathan huberto had i think close to 18 minutes and two assists on the weekend. New man. Watched that game, too.

He was really good. Really? Yeah. He was just like, I mean, he was moving around well, noticeable, dangling, passing, doing his thing, looking like Huberto from last year. He looked really good. I was blown away by how good he looked. I know we got into this a little bit friday the comparison to what alan walsh did with mark andre fleury like

it's oh my god it's not even close oh you mean the you mean the the monet painting that he said involved here all he said was uh you know perhaps my client's not having that much fun out there right now, and it doesn't appear anyone else is having that much fun. I didn't find it that big of a deal. I did see Huberto doing an interview on that, and he was like, yeah, I just didn't know. I woke up and saw my agent. I believe him. Do you not believe him?

You think he's lying? I guarantee he's whining to his agent about it. Well, that's the thing. No, I don't think so. He doesn't pick up this information from nowhere. What do you mean you don't think so? He's's whining to his agent about it well that's the thing from nowhere what do you mean not whining to his agent he's texting us hears it from someone else where does walsh hear it from he doesn't hear it from huberto you're crazy listen okay so he every player's the same every player cries to his agent i I want more ice time. Right. Or the coach doesn't, whatever. That is not new to any agent. Okay.

So he's pushing his client. He doesn't like to see his client playing 11 minutes of even strength time. He doesn't like that. Yeah. But. Who would? It just, it wasn't that big of a deal to me. Yeah.

Okay. Right. It just, it wasn't that big of a deal to me. Okay. And as far as Hubro is concerned and Marc-Andre Fleury, like they love Alan Walsh. They just love him. They trust him. They love him. They wouldn't have that big of an issue. No.

You know, you want your agent to go to bat for you. That's why you have an agent. He's the best one out there when that comes to taking some bullets and taking some hits. Yeah, he'll tweet out paintings. But this is a real thing where, like, you know, you talk about Hockey Canada or in the Olympics and Gretzky goes out there and puts himself in front. Or, you know, there's a number. Brian Burke talked about intentionally putting himself on blast in the media when his team needs to deflect attention.

There is something to be said, Sadeen. Something to be said for guys who will say, pin it on me, but things got to change over here. We're going to work on that over here. I'll take the heat. Maybe he's kind of turned the energy a little bit, maybe. We'll see how that follows up with Colorado or Calgary. Calgary is playing right now. Oh, they started at 4 p.m.

And they are losing the first period to the Philadelphia Flyers. Cool cool cool cool maybe the energy still needs work uh anything we've really learned on the weekend on buyers and sellers here guys we have a few minutes left but i'd say washington uh philadelphia florida panthers with a big win against anaheim this afternoon. That pushes them ahead of the New York Islanders. Yeah, Florida's in the first wildcard spot. In the first wildcard spot. We talked about Washington on the way out, maybe. Buffalo, big game. Sammy, tomorrow night against your trusted Toronto Maple Leafs.

Sabres GM Kevin Adams joining us tomorrow, by the way. Really? Yeah. Amazing. Detroit. What a producer. Buyers or sellers? Sell.

Sell, sell, sell, baby. They're in it. Oh, they're not in it. Three points back. They're not in it. They're not in it with three points? No, listen to all the teams you got to go over. I agree with both of you.

They're not going to make it, but they're in it. Little from Calame, little from Calame. Ottawa with a bad loss against the Boston Bruins, but that's asking for... Bad loss. Everyone loses to the Bruins. No, but like... Standing wise.

Oh, yeah, sure. They needed one. Come on. Ottawa wins today against Boston. That one has everybody excited. Yeah. They're... Yeah.

And Colorado is who we thought they were and colorado is who we thought they were colorado is absolutely who we thought they were they have one of the easiest schedules in the league the rest of the way getting healthier suddenly plus 20 where do you have the nashville predators by sale sale sale sale absolutely there's seven points out of a playoff spot. It's been over for them. Okay. If Calgary loses to Philadelphia this afternoon. Calgary is like the Islanders. You can't sell now.

They really are the Western Conference Islanders. I do wonder if they will do something drastic, though. We heard the Uyghur contract being available. Will they try to get significantly better give Dan Vladar the crease how about the flames are probably gonna have Ladar is their guy and Markstrom on the bench and in all honesty

Stuart Skinner's probably the guy for the Oilers with Campbell on the bench did not see that happen in Alberta this year but here we are alright who's the next name to drop? Timo? Is it Timo time yet? Or

Chikrin? I would say Timo because I think he's way more likely to get traded than Chikrin, no? Is Chikrin still sitting in the press box? Is he back playing hockey yet? I don't know. Gabrikov's next to go. That's my name. He's still sitting in the press box? Is he back in playing hockey yet? I don't know. Great question. I know Gabrikov's next to go.

That's my name. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's still sitting out. All right. God, that was a... I'm exhausted. Talked about a lot today, boys. I'm exhausted. It's emotional.

And we'll get ready tomorrow. He's fired up. Toronto and the Buffalo Sabres. Our thanks to Gord Stelic, Jamal Mayers as well. All right. Enjoy your night tonight. We're back at it again tomorrow.

Real Kipper and Bourne. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening and following. Give us our ratings and review. We'd love to hear from you. Have a great night, everybody.