Real Kyper & Bourne - Early Returns on Tom Fitzgerald's New Jersey Devils

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by New Jersey Devils' GM Tom Fitzgerald (5:30) to share his assessment of his team near the quarter mark of the season, Sheldon Keefe's transition with a new team, the philosophical focus on big defencemen, Dougie Hamilton's resurgence, and the controversial calls and video reviews across the league. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee discuss Igor Shesterkin's and Mitch Marner's looming contract decisions. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into the National Hour on Real Kipper and Bourne. We are live on Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour, Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in general manager of the New Jersey Devils, Tom Fitzgerald. Ten games on tap. Winnipeg's going at it.

Vancouver, Edmonton. Have we given Winnipeg their due yet? Well, I think they got it the other night Taking care of the New York Rangers We had the general manager of their team on on Monday We've been talking with them a lot It's true And by the way, thanks Shout out to Ashley who sent me a DM

It was Taylor Swift that booted me off the highway It was a big motorcade To the national listeners, Sam McKee booted me off the highway. It was a big motorcade. National listeners, Sam McKee was railroaded off the highway today by Swiftie's motorcade. Where's the helicopter? Landing on the roof. This may be a bit of a zag here, but do we really need to shut down a city

in rush hour for a pop star? It's absurd. Get a helicopter. Why don't you just say Pop Tart? Pop Star? I didn't say Pop Tart. It's absurd. Okay. Get a helicopter. Why don't you just say Pop-Tart? Like, I mean. Pop-Star. I didn't say Pop-Tart. I said Pop-Star. I'm just saying. It's absurd.

She is one of the most influential people in the world. You can't afford a helicopter? Hundreds of millions swing on these shows. She's got to be there, Sam. Get her a helicopter. Fly it to the place where she's playing. What are we doing? Shut down the city.

You had to detour for 10 minutes. You do pull over on the side oh my god for her that's just a little bit a little much holy but it's almost like we're gonna build a statue for a guy that quit on the team next here in toronto like vince carter oh my god maybe they should design a jersey about him this city poor vince hey oh that advanced bullet there oh this city roll out the red carpet some more. Keep firing. Punching up at least.

You threw Vince under her tour bus right now. Anyways, I think they could get her a helicopter. Before we bring on Tom, just in terms of the Winnipeg Jets, Tampa Bay, they're in Florida, sun's shining. Is this the night that they can kind of have an excuse to take their foot off the gas pedal here? Or like how long can this thing go? It's one of those things where it's like they're going to lose.

We know that they're not going to go 81-1, and so we shouldn't make too big a deal out of it when it happens, but it's just tough to see it. Everything's going well. Goal tending's great. Top line's good. Third line's awesome. Fourth line's solid.

You know, they just keep getting points, so I'm not betting against them. They did just play against Tampa recently, and they had a pretty spirited game against them. It was a high-scoring affair. 7-4. Victory. It's hard to beatscoring affair. 7-4. Victory. It's hard to beat somebody twice in that short a span.

I would say that tonight would be a good chance to maybe bet against them. They had a little stretch here where it's Avalanche, Stars, Rangers, Lightning, Panthers, Panthers, and they've gone 3-0 through that so far. Listen, you're up against Kucherov, so anything can happen right yep but like it is it is remarkable you just wonder like i don't know do you want it to be later on in the season when you feel this good you want to have it close to the playoffs i honestly feel like this gives you such luxury throughout your season like let's say someone's injured you know you can say all right well let's just make sure everyone's healthy and

give them some time you know it takes a little bit of pressure off things you can enjoy the day to day because as we've said on this show already 500 hockey from here and you're laughing so yeah probably probably be a hundred point team if they're 500 on the way in now is kyle connor get the love that uh he deserves a 55 56 goal pace right now i do think that he's in the legitimate rocket conversation you know he's a guy i uh when i was in the american league pre-scouting games he scored eight straight games before we played him um you know he dominated that level before he got to the nhl so he's just done this he just shoots it in the net he is currently one goal back of the league lead which you know not too shabby 22 points for kyle connor in 16 games yeah he's been awesome and uh another milestone tonight uh milestone

watch mcdavid against the uh against the predators oh yeah could get a thousand he does really well against the predators him and both him and dry,000. He does really well against the Predators. Him and Drysaddle both. You know who does well against Predators too? Everybody in the league. The Predators. There's an article on Sportsnet from Adam Vingen today. Here's why the Predators are last

in the NHL. And to be clear, they're last not just in points, but in points percentage too. They are very legitimately in last place with San Jose and Montreal. I got buddies like they do not want Connor to get it tonight because they're going to Hockey Night in Canada

Saturday night, Toronto. They want to save it for Hockey Night in Canada is 1,000 points. We should sit Connor out tonight. For our sake. No, don't. Alright, part of those 10 games tonight include the Florida Panthers and the New Jersey Devils back-to-back with a day in between.

Let's welcome in general manager of those Devils, Tom Fitzgerald. Fitzy, how are you, man? Thanks for joining us. Doing great, guys. My pleasure. My pleasure. So did you buddy my ass off here in South Florida? Do you remember back-to-backs having a day off in between?

No. No, this is unique. You know, we did this in the bubble, right, back in 20. Yeah. It is unique. I actually kind of like it. It's nice getting the first win, that's for sure. But, you know what, it's just something that's different.

It feels like a playoff game, quite honestly. And we're excited to be here. Tom, what have you made of your team's start to the season? You've already played 19 games, which is at least three or four more, I think, than most teams. But Metro's a pretty competitive division this year. How do you feel about how things have gone? I think things have gone well.

I think, like every team, goes through some inconsistencies at times. Some games you're playing well, you know, special teams are on the down. Or you're playing against a hot goaltender and you just can't find a goal. But overall, I really like the direction that Sheldon's leading our team, the habits and the details that we're playing with. We're harder to play against. We've got some different characters in the lineup that we haven't had in the past. I think we are a harder team, and we still believe we're one of the fastest teams, especially in transition,

with the Parkmont offense. So, Fitzy, if you ever see your head coach, Sheldon Keefe, every once in a while with a really big smile, it's only because he doesn't have to listen to us here in Toronto anymore. But I can only imagine what his day-to-day routine was under the microscope here compared to New Jersey, and that's not slighting your market. That's just saying that the reality is there's no other place like it in markets like Canada.

Oh, you know what? I can't answer that question because I'm not him. It is completely different, for sure. But we have some great fans, and they're very passionate, or as passionate as any team in the league fans

about our team. We'll get booed off the ice in certain games. You'll get the Bronx cheer. But I can't answer that. I know he's enjoying himself. He seems to like it. He's been great to work with.

Everything I thought he would be. Like I said, he's got our guys playing the right way, understanding what work is, what compete is, what could have its meaning, details, the game within the game. He's really laid out. There's a crystal clear picture of what his expectations are with our team, and it's been great. When I look at your roster, it looks like you have a philosophy

because I see a lot of speed up front, and I've talked to people who are like, yeah, aren't they kind of small? And it's like, have you seen their back end? Your back end has a bunch of giants back there. I'm not sure if people are aware how big your D are. Is that something that's like have you seen their back end your back end uh has a bunch of giants uh back they're not sure people are aware how big your d are is that something that's philosophical for you or just you're looking to get the best d possible and they happen to be big in this case uh i mean i i'm not going to sit here and tell you like i i didn't want to get bigger on the back end but it's it's going to be the right players and the right mix of talent and character and hardness.

You need puck movers, transitioners, and you need guys that, you know what, you need drummers, right? You need guys that are going to be able to box hard, make it hard for the opponent at the net front, stick up for their teammates. Yeah, you know, having the trees back there, pretty good. I think I heard somebody say that. It might have been Kenny Hall.

I'm like, you can have all the trees you want. You can only have maybe one bush, right? So right now we don't have any bushes. We've got a couple in the American League who are going to be really good NHL defensemen. We just feel right now with our back in particular, it's probably the best

depth we've had. When you can send us Simone Nemec to the American Hockey League and Seamus Casey who had a fantastic camp and is going to be an electric player in our league, you can afford to send them down and really get proper reps. Yeah, and up front, everybody knows what the pillars of our team are.

It's the skill, the Nicos, the Jacks, the Bratters, the Timo Meyers up front, the amount of skill we have. And we feel like we've done a good job of feeling around those guys with different players, right players, two-way players, harder players. So, no, it's been fun. And like I said earlier, Sheldon's done a great job of taking a lot of new faces and really aligning everybody to the common goal. We're talking to Tom Fitzgerald, general manager of the New Jersey Devils

in Florida to face the Florida Panthers for the second consecutive time, albeit one day in between. Fitzy, you're watching your defenseman, Brendan Dillon, take on one of the tougher guys in Gajovic. Is that what it is? Gajovic.

He's throwing like 37 punches, and you're saying to yourself, watching each and every punch, what? Wow. This is incredible. This is made for TV, hockey, you know. And that's what Brendan Dillon does.

And he didn't say it to anybody, but he turned 34 the next day. It was his birthday. Quite the present he gave himself. Yeah, he knows what his role is, and he knows. It's just a different vibe, Nick, to be quite honest. You know, last year we would have been run out of that building after the first period we had. But he sort of stood up, took on the fight,

and we felt things change a little bit for us. And so I look at the names that you brought in there. You brought in Dylan, and you brought in Pesci, who's another big guy. You mentioned that that was kind of part of the plan, is getting a little bit bigger. You've also mentioned the word hard a number of times, so that's something that going into this season, you felt that you guys maybe lacked in the past? Absolutely.

I'm not going to tell you we didn't. We look at ourselves, the reason why we didn't go deep in the playoffs two years ago is the reason why we didn't make the playoffs last year. Hard is a common word in our game. Because every game is hard. And if you don't play hard, and if you're not hard,

it's a tough league to win. So we wanted to do that. And you know what's contagious? Bringing in certain people like Nason or Cotter who they don't know any other way to play. This is how they play. And it's puck drops and it's everything they have. And they're finishing every single check and they're going through guys

and it's contagious. You're seeing other guys do it that have been here. It's just been a fun evolution to watch. Tom, I want to ask you a little bit about the ever challenges of a general manager when it comes to the salary cap and particularly these young star players that come out of entry level deals and then just jump right into a seven or eight year deal and offering them 50 and 60 million dollars and we know there's a few already that went through that with jack hughes on your hockey

club and now his brother's coming along and still very young, still very green. And I want to ask you just in terms about those challenges that you have internally, and not so much deciding and assessing where their talent may take them in seven or eight years, but which guys have the capacity to handle that much money that early at age 20 or 21 years of age. It can't be an easy thing to make these decisions. No, it's not.

But everybody's in the same boat, Nick, quite honestly. Everybody's going to be in this situation at some time of their lifespan of being a manager. You're hedging bets there, and you're betting on upside, and you're betting on growth, and you're betting on development, and you're betting on yourself that you can help that person get to those levels that you projected them to get to when you drafted them at 17 and 18 years old. So, yeah, it's not an easy thing, but you feel good when you do hit when it's

right. I would say the majority of the kids you're talking about are all super players. You know they're going to continue to grow. You know they're going to continue to get better and develop because they're passionate about the game and they want to be the best they possibly

can be. But it is a calculated risk. I don't want to say risk but it's it's something that everything goes through you know when you when you're going through something like that you know you got good players yeah that's a situation you want to find yourself in um i'm curious about a guy at the other end of the spectrum well 10 years older anyway and dougie hamilton now 31 um you know missed a lot of hockey last year but boy it feels like you guys are a different team The guy at the other end of the spectrum, well, 10 years older anyway, and Dougie Hamilton, now 31. Missed a lot of hockey last year, but boy, it feels like you guys are a different team when he's in and contributing, playing 21 minutes this year.

Potential name for Canada's Four Nations face-offs team. Tell us how he's looked in his return getting back to things this season. Oh, he looks really good. He looks strong. He plays with Brendan Dillon. There's more courage there, which is obviously nice to see. He's playing the hardest I've seen him play over the last few years here. He's not – the points aren't there like they were a couple years ago,

but his overall game has really improved under Sheldon because it's commanded. You know, you asked me before, you mentioned about using the word hard. It's just having good defenders is important, too. You need to know how to defend, and Dougie is right now the best I've seen on defending. Hey, Tom, we know that coming out of the Hall of Fame, the general managers did get together. So much talk about video review, not just getting the call right, but getting it done as quickly as possible.

We had a game last night with the Toronto Maple Leafs in Washington. We saw a number of calls being disputed and then waiting on the results. Where do you sit on all of this in terms of what we can do to better the system? It's a great question. We touched on it but didn't get into deep discussions on it. You know, the refs have the hardest job out of anybody on the ice. They've got to make right calls. They've got to be at the right time in the game. You know, if they lose sight of the puck, then, you know,

the whistle's being blown. You know, is there, you know, is there, is there discussion about Toronto, the Wholam helping out in certain situations, modern day technology, can you go direct to the ref at that moment in real time versus, you know, waiting for the play to end. So there's a lot of discussions, but at the end of the day,

it's all about evolution and trying to continue to evolve the game and help the refs, because they do have the hardest job in the world. Tom, there's been some years where the Devils have had pretty darn good teams and it feels like they've been submarine by their goaltending. You made a real effort this offseason getting Jacob Markstrom, Jake Allen's there as well. How have things felt?

Tell us about the process of making that decision to get new goaltenders and how it's working out for you. Well, you're right. It went back to, uh, early discussions early last year on goaltenders with other managers. And as we approached the deadline, um, you know, Jake Al is a guy that we identified as somebody that could come in and, and partner up with a guy who's a true number one.

We didn't have him. We didn't have that yet. But we laid down the plan. We had to convince Jake Allen actually to waive his no move or put us on his no move list or take us off it by telling him what we're going to try to do in the offseason. He did. He came in. He played great. He's such a veteran. He's such a good, good, good teammate. He played really well for us. And then, you know, trading, trading VTech at the deadline to free up that extra year of contract is important. So we could,

we could have flexibility um in the offseason and jacob markson was our number one target um uh we got him i think both goalies have really complement one one another and uh both have played played well um you know for the most part they played well so uh yeah, yeah, no, we feel we're different. It's a different feel, quite honestly, Justin. Like, even for me, sitting way up, it's like, just like, oh, good, he stopped the first shot. We're in a game. That's how good it's been, eh?

Or how bad it's been. So, yeah. Tom, so many general managers use the American Thanksgiving as this gauge to truly understand where their team is or what their wants and needs are. You buy into that? Or you know all along where you want to maybe head towards a trade deadline personally? I think I use like a 25 game mark.

And that probably coincides with U.S. Thanksgiving. I think you know what your team is. We know what our strengths are. You're always looking to add depth. I just want to see what this group can continue to do before we make any decisions on a need. You know, we still have a couple of injuries. Guys who are a big part of our fourth line in Curtis Lazar and Nate Bastion. You know, so we're just kind of patchworking internally right now.

It's our, you know, the Bowlings and the McDermott's who have come in, they've played well. So, yeah, we're just going to continue to just kind of evaluate that. You know, again, I'd like to get, I'd like to add some more speed to our lineup, whether that's on the bottom end. You just never know what's going to be there. And we'll start really discussing this stuff right after Thanksgiving, quite honestly.

You get to early December, you're meeting with your pro group, and this is where we're at. And this is what we probably want to add. Great. Tom in florida man thanks for doing this awesome see you guys okay thanks for your time that's tom fitzgerald general manager of the new jersey devils and at times the fastest show on ice there are some nights i'm watching them and it's like am i in fast forward he's, we want to add more speed. Yeah. Oh, okay.

I mean, Bratt, Hughes, Heashier, Mason Skates, Meyer can move. Mercer. Yeah, Mercer flies. How about Paul Cotter's year? 24 years old, 6'2", 210, seven goals, five assists for 12 points already. He's just kind of humming along for them. Excellent hands. Some of the best hands in the league. And Luke Hughes is one of those guys that could find himself on a new deal

starting at $7 million. Yeah. I saw your article today. I wrote an article today for the Toronto Star on Matthew Nyes. Are we allowed to talk about that in the National Hour? Yeah, we are. Yeah, we are. In general. And the article is more about, for me, just these kids coming out of entry-level deals

and being in a situation where they're amongst the highest paid guys on the team and they're barely eligible to vote. Jack Hughes is 23. He's been making $8 million. He's going to be. Like Jack Hughes is 23. He's been making $8 million. He's going to be making it for a long time. That's a steal of a deal. When's his contract end? Oh, God, I don't know, 2030?

But he's old news. I'm talking about Slavkoski and Owen Power and some of these kids who are now finding themselves, their talent's worthy of that number, and it's a fairly safe bet, as Tom Fitzgerald just told us, on their talent. But the perception out there is, like, we're really good now. Buffalo, we're really good right now.

And Mason Raymond's, like, got one goal. Mason who, uh, no, uh, Lucas, Lucas Raymond, Lucas Raymond in Detroit,

like one goal. It's like, didn't you just sign for 8 million? Aren't you supposed to lead us to the playoffs now? It's like, I'm only like 21. I'm only 22. You're asking for an awful lot.

I'm young. It's like, wait, you just asked for an awful lot. I just, just got a credit card. Yeah. No, it's, I think it's a an awful lot. I'm young. It's like, wait, you just asked for an awful lot. I just got a credit card. Yeah. No, I think it's a very fair point.

One of my things were I to be a general manager is that I think you have to be careful who you give long-term deals to just as people. You really have to trust the individual as a person know they are a hockey obsessive nerd and this is the most important thing to them because it's not to everyone yeah yeah and i i like uh alexi lafreniere is a a pretty pretty good example of okay a huge lafreniere guy yeah like we all are now yeah right but it it took a while for him to get there. There's a lot of people that doubted him. Yeah, that makes me trust it more though. Right?

And then it got to the point where they bridged him because they weren't thrilled with his work ethic and felt like he wasn't committing himself enough. But so they sat on it. Did he sign? Or was there a report that he was going to sign point four five he signed he did sign but he he came out of his entry level deal and signed um a bridge deal he didn't jump yeah from like three was from 8.75 like potentially matthew nize can do this summer because his deal's up.

So what are your thoughts? Would the Leafs be better off to bridge or commit to Nyes? Yeah, no. I think they're better off just giving him like $60 million. Agreed. You do, eh? I do. Yeah, I think just.

Over eight years? Of course, eight years. You're not giving him $8 or $7 million if you don't get the full eight. Yeah. So I think there's a real belief out there that the cap could hit $105 or $110 million in like five or six years. I read. So you're covered. You're going to cover.

And if he's going to score 30 goals and be a monster on the PK and four check and all that, that's. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah. I read in, I think it was a Joshua Cloak article that the Leafs have two players nicknamed Brick. And one is Joseph Wohl because he's the Brick Wohl. And then the other is Matthew Nyes.

Go ahead and guess why. Just a bit of a brick. Just a large guy who brick. A large guy who makes some mental errors at times. Ask Dowd. I think physically and mentally maybe it's a bit of a fitting nickname. You could ask Dowd why his nickname is Brick.

For the record, I'm not saying he's a dumb guy. The team has given him the nickname. It's in an article. He's a brick. He's a brick. Yeah. Poor Dowd. He didn't come back. He did all right? He's a brick. He's a brick, yeah. Porned down. He didn't come back, eh? He did come back. Did he?

He did come back. And they took a stupid penalty. Yeah, he got a broken nose. Was that him at the end of the game? Yeah. He's got a broken nose. Well, and ironically, it was Nyes who he pulled down there. Yeah.

Yeah. So. Yeah, Nyes just took his nose off his face with his eyes closed there. Ugh. But, I mean, come on. Like, some of these guys are just like blue chip stocks you just know get in on the ground floor get in on the ground floor so then you think so you think he would take that contract you know what i fool no see i think you're wrong because he's pretty good he's pretty good see the, the cap is moving up.

So whatever you think that that marketplace is, you can make an argument that that's old money. So even bridges now, instead of a bridge being like for some of these young kids, anywhere between like 1.9 and 2.5 now can get into the threes and fours. So a guy like Matthew Nyes could argue that he doesn't want to make six and seven years from now. He wants to make nine or 10. So, but then Bridget, it here's the risk you're risking security

prove it go prove it then you know like he had 15 goals last year well if he ends up scoring 22 this year yeah you know there's not that money's not there like you get injured for me it's not just the numbers though and we all three of us know it's not just the numbers i know that's what the lease would show but you watch this guy play, the impact he has physically on the game and just his size and his presence. He's rare with that, maybe that five tool thing, but it's the same argument or principle for all of them.

And that is, where do you, where's your cutoff line of feeling like, how can I turn down 50 million bucks, take it right now? And how am I going to feel in two or three years? Like, I can't believe for one second, Jack Hughes is really all that thrilled six years from now. He's still going to be making eight when Leon's at 14 and everybody's jumping to 16, 18.

You guarantee yourself. But to me, like, you're going to end up being Brad guarantee yourselves but to me like you're gonna end up being brad marshand at that point if you're jack hughes and and i don't like that contract for hughes at all but you're right it was a big enough number that they're like i guess i should do it and good on him tom fitzgerald looks like a hero right now to build around that and spread the money and and all of it but number one pick that's it to, that's a risk. It was never worth it for Jack Hughes. So he doesn't sign for seven times eight, but maybe he can get four times two, right? Maybe he can get...

For Nyes? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just to get him to free agency. By the way, Luke Hughes is going to make more than Jack Hughes. Luke Hughes should absolutely make more than his brother. Jack Hughes, I'm like, what just happened? How did this happen?

I'd be talking to my agent. I'd be like, that was two years ago I signed that. You didn't see this coming? Yeah, 2030, it's going to expire. So he'll be, he's 23 now. So he'll be 29, 30. He'll have a chance to get paid. He'll get another monster bag at that point.

The cap should be higher than it is, but they negotiated it to pay off the debt of the escrow. So in theory, once the players don't owe any more money to escrow. Are they not anymore? Are they still owe money to escrow? Maybe a couple hundred million or something. Just a couple hundred schmil. Yeah.

But once it's wiped out, once it's wiped out, that cap should jump. Jump. And everybody wants in on new money. Three years is your point. Bridget, baby. We'll see what Connor does with that.

What's his name? Fred Van Vliet. Bet on yourself. Yeah. All right, Sammy. Game time? Time game. Let me get my sheet here. What's his name? Fred Van Vliet. Bet on yourself. Alright, Sammy. Game time? Time game. Let me get my sheet here. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds to find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. So I was met

talking about McDavid and McDavid and Dreisaitl both absolutely own the National Predators. Like, I can't remember what the number is. I think in 27 games, Leon Dreisaitl has a goal a game. Like, he's scored, I think, 27 or 28 goals against them. Pretty good.

And David's one point away. I love a same-game parlay of both those guys to score tonight, which pays plus 400. Do you think McDavid wants to save it for Hockey Night in Canada? No, he hates attention. He wants this out of the way. He's actually a great bet to get, like, three points tonight. Yeah, so I like him to score tonight.

I like Leon Dreisaitl to score in that game. But, you know, get to 1,000, the fourth fast, it's a get to a thousand the fourth fastest the big night so give me that um and the other game that i was looking at was we just had tom fitzgerald on and the uh new jersey devils are big underdogs tonight in florida probably you know second game hard to beat a team twice plus 135 on the money line the The Florida Panthers are minus 160. Don't really have a lean on that one. I think the Devils are a pretty good team, but if you wanted to lay the juice with the Panthers,

they're probably not going to lose twice in a row the same team in one week, but I don't really have a lean on that one. Yeah. I thought you were going to say something there. Yeah, I did have something to say, and now I don't remember, so carry on. And the biggest favorite on the board tonight, the New York Rangers home to the San Jose Sharks minus 425 on home ice

against the San Jose Sharks on Monday night. Why don't the Rangers just give Shisterkin more money than Panarin and get it over with? What are we doing here? Okay. Well, let's, okay. Let me wrap up game time. We'll take a break,

and we can talk about that on the other side. How's that sound? All right, make like a Christmas tree and wrap it up. You wrap up Christmas tree? You mean a Christmas gift? It's Thursday. I'm tired. How much game time?

Is it on Bet365? Visit the app, the latest odds, and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365, Mr. 19 Plus, Ontario only. Please play it responsibly. You really. Three, six, five, Mr. 19 plus Ontario. That's a, please play it responsibly. You really landed the plan on that one, buddy.

That's a Darren Millard kipperism as he refers it to pieces of crap like you for breakfast. All right, we'll take a quick break and do that Christmas tree thing. After the break, you're watching and listening to real kipper and born. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. This is our Real Kipper and Born, brought to you by Bet365, Nick Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. All right, after we said that we're going to go to break, talking Shusterkin and the New York Rangers. And the guy that's made it real clear to the New York Rangers, I want to be the highest paid guy.

I'm the most valuable player. Is there anyone that can argue that? Anyone other than him, no. There's no debate. He is the most important player on the team. Yeah, I mean, Panarin's got 10 goals and 22 points in 14 games. He's not bad. Solid.

Solid. Solid. 10 more than the next best guy in the team. And he signed how long ago? 100 years ago. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So.

Let's talk his number. The Rangers, when Kevin Weeks said, what, a month ago? Six weeks ago? No, why is that long? Four weeks ago? Kevin Weeks. Two weeks ago? With that tweet?

Yeah. Yeah. 11 million. A week ago? Yeah. 10 weeks ago that tweet yeah yeah 11 million a week ago 10 days ago I think he had another one that suggested 11.5 I'm talking about the one

that said oh yeah 11 yeah yeah right yep yep 11 it's like

like if we just told you that you know we expect to be the highest paid why are you going 11 right and I can't believe for one second that they were you know, we expect to be the highest paid. Why are you going 11?

Right. And I can't believe for one second that they were, they were, I don't know, I don't know what the term to use, that they were confident enough that if 11 didn't do it, 11.5 would do it. It's like they told you what the number is. Right. Basically, it's like anything north of Panarin at 11.6. So if you want to avoid 12.

Panarin, by the way, Panarin makes 11.6. That was signed in 2019 when the cap was 81. 2019. That's like a lifetime ago. I know. That's in the Raptors. With the cap. That's in the Raptors.

Yeah, they won the championship that year. But if you've got a real shot at trying to keep the number below 12 yeah then go off from 11.75 leak it say we met your demands of being the highest paid player on the team and it's done well and they're really grinding over nickels then at that point, right? Like they're trying to save a quarter million dollars per year on this deal. It's just not worth it. Yeah, like to piss off arguably the best goalie in the league or one of the top three.

Yeah, like if we go back to, I don't think for one second that the Edmonton Oilers really thought that they'd need to go to 14 for Leon Dreisaitl. You don't think they needed to? No, I'm saying I don't think that they expected to. Oh, really? I think that the number that they thought that they could get away with would have been low 13s. And then Leon said, this is the number.

He said, uh-uh-uh. This is the number. Actually, it's 14. They said, then it's 14.. This is the number. He said, actually, it's 14. They said, then it's 14. And then they said it's 14. And then it's 14. I was going to say that myself. But Leon could have gone 14-5.

He could have gone 14-1⁄2. He could have gone 14 in his little number. He went 14, but bottom end 14. And really still, I thought, gave the Edmonton Oilers a break. That's interesting. So once you start going above 14 and you want to tap into the 14-2-5s or the 14-5s, then you run the risk of everybody being a little pissed off. Everybody being teammates?

No, probably management or ownership. Yeah. Right? right yeah because let's not forget like on top of the salaries these star players they get looked after really well yeah really well that's stuff that you don't know about like you know how you get into the all-star game no take my plane oh really That kind of thing, right? And you want everybody to be happy. So 14 was a good number that made everybody happy. Yep. And that's what the Rangers should be doing with Shusterkin.

Well, there's no doubt about it. It's actually borderline insulting, given his age and what he's done in the league, and he's clearly worth that much money. Then you look... I get the Rangers having a grind, though. You know, that Sabanajad contract is going to get a little concerning, right? He's not playing well. Not playing well.

31 years old. He's under contract at $8 million per until 2030. Yeah, that's going to be a tough. He's got two goals in 14 games and he's minus six that's tough that's uh yeah that's so you know dash four against winnipeg so you have some bad there's some contracts you don't love all of a sudden you go we need to you know save a quarter million dollars on on a guy we really need to keep that that's trouble so i i just i don't understand and this is my own naivete like they're this close

like the numbers we're talking about for Shusterkin are either 11-2-5 11-5, 11-7-5, 12 seems like everybody knows that and maybe the number's 12 how are they not able to just it's going to happen here, so let's just get in the room

let's just do it unless it's not going to there's no they're gonna let him go to ufa no i i'm not saying that i'm just saying that like as long as you you're you're still not as sure as you just mentioned you should be it's gonna going to happen. It's like, well, then why hasn't it happened? Right. And that's the danger is why hasn't it happened? What you're saying is he's going to be on the Golden Knights next year. When he's going to sign for six bucks a year. He's going to sign for six bucks a year.

He is a modified no trade. There is. Ten team no trade. You know. Vegas is not on that list. I'll promise you that. Teams and owners also run the risk of sometimes, like, players can emotionally move on. You think? Yes.

Yeah, it's not the be all, end all. And here in Toronto, Mitch Marner. Oh, boy. So Mitch is off to a pretty good start, but he's also had now probably since the summer to mid-November going into Christmas the thoughts of where else can I play? Where does my family want to be? Do you like it there?

Do you not like it there? Maybe I do some research, talk to other players. It's like planting a seed, and sometimes the seed can grow a little bit and then sometimes you you find yourself in February or March and you're like I'm emotionally checked out of here okay the Leafs have made Marner an offer I know no and if if it has I don't think it's like a serious, legit offer. It'd be like, let's get this process started. Here's what we would like to do.

I don't know. See, the problem there, and specifically with the Leafs, is that you've already had ample opportunities to try to win Stanley Cups with four guys in particular. You're apparently going to take another run at it. If you sign Marner and you somehow find yourself losing in the first round, it's not good. Well, it's not good. It's not good.

So what you're telling me is... So what I'm telling you... Is he's gone. No. Well... What I'm telling you. Is he's gone. No. Well. What I'm telling you. He's going to sign in the last week before the. Is everybody's rolling the dice here.

That's what I'm telling you. That you're going to go all season long with Rich Werner. You're going to get to your playoffs. And if there's success. And it's good. And everybody's happy. and he's proven that you can win with this guy and you can prove you can win with willie and tavaris then and everybody cashes in here's a perfect way you know this wasn't a planned true or false true or false

mitch marner october 9th 2025 my 37th birthday opening night for the toronto maple leafs mitch marner on the toronto maple leafs mitch marner on the toronto maple leafs true or false false yeah i'll probably say false too oh my god oh my god boy you run the risk of at this point if you're marner and you're saying you know the leafs want to see can they have six can you succeed in the playoffs can we win with you can you be good enough and then you go out and have success in the playoffs and go well you didn't believe me like i knew i could hell with you guys i don't know that's it seems like an emotional you're playing the percentages and the percentages if this group is this this core group has had like four or five legitimate opportunities to move

forward and they they did it marginally by beating tampa bay once and it's what are the odds what are the odds of them going to a conference final or stanley cup final 10 okay yeah you're smarter than me uh it's probably about what the model would say i don't know maybe so why do you want to sign him in november sammy or december because he's good yeah and you're not better without him, and it's not something I necessarily would love to do, but it just feels like... It feels like a necessary evil

to me. That's how you... The necessary evil. The cap's going up. The cap's going up, so there's going to be more room, more flexibility. It should be easier to sign guys now that want a little bit more money how much how much mr kiprios how much more oh nobody knows the answer to that okay how much would you pay marner uh what's he make now 11

yeah just under 11 10 9 i would pay him in the 12 range he gets gets the willie deal give him 11 5 i'd give him more than well i think he's a half a million bucks better than willie i would give him 12 million for eight years a lot of money it is for sure but i don't think he takes that i think he wants more than that right that's probably a little more complicated than that yeah but it's good so he's slotted perfectly under austin matthews and ahead of william nylander that's how i would view it but i'm not mitch marner so let's move on okay where else are we going here uh did you see i know you're gonna be really excited about this i wanted to ask you about this giver because i knew this is right up your alley. Did you see the Chicago magazine?

They recreated the famous scene from Ferris Bueller with Conor Bedard. Yeah, I did. You liked that, didn't you? It feels like a movie that might be in your wheelhouse. First of all, I loved that movie. That's on my top five favorite. Yes.

No question. Yeah, and just to do like three quarters of that movie in a Gordie Howe jersey is really cool. Especially in Chicago, as like the lifetime rival of Blackhawks, Red Wings. It's like a whole thing there. I love that. Yeah, yeah. Didn't love Bedard.

Anyone? Yeah, Bedard looked great. Okay, wow. I thought for sure you'd be like, oh, his shifts are too long. I figured you'd get bent out of shape about it. Listen, he's just a kid. Is he? He's just a kid.

He's not, you know, he's not having the season that he would have hoped. I'm sure the league is, you know, not thrilled that they're marketing a three-goal score right now. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? This is one of those emotional tied-up questions too much like your mitch marner conversation is if you don't take conor bedard on this four nations face-off team do you think that

pisses the kid off and does it matter if it does uh listen to me uh this weekend in the Hall of Fame, I'm standing beside Mike Keenan and Steve Eiserman. And the conversation came up. About Bedard? No, about cutting Steve Eiserman. Oh. And if I'm not mistaken, he might have even cut him twice. And I just remember Steve saying, you know, I was really pissed off at you, Mike.

But then I looked at the guys that you had ahead of me. Yeah. And I'm like, I got it. Yeah. I get it. Well, but for them to be not on there. That's how Conor Bedard, if Conor Bedard is not on Team Canada. I don't think you will be just look at the names ahead of you and tell me

that you really deserve to be there for sure you know but for him not to be there there's gonna have to be like a lafreniere or a tom wilson or a zach hyman or that kind of guy who's playing more of a specific role. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I'm pro Zach Hyman on the team for what it's worth. Listen, it's a tough league. And everybody knows how fast you can shoot a puck right now. I bet they would want him around as a 13th guy, though.

And just get the experience, be around the whole thing. You're probably going to use your 13th guy. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The only thing you got to wonder too is like how much they're using this as a stepping stone to the Olympics. It's not to win the four nations. It's to get them ready to win a gold medal. Which is why it's relevant.

So it is relevant so if that's the case and you're saying okay bedard doesn't exactly yes correct he doesn't deserve to be on the team but we know he'll be there two years from now and we need to groom him now yeah that's that's one way that he makes the team sammy the only way i'll push back on that is like i don't think are you learn that much in the Four Nations face-off would be that much different a player two years later. Guys like guys like hanging out and being familiar

with each other. It just doesn't seem to lack confidence. Who do you think finished their career with more goals? Macklin Celebrini or Connor Bedard? I don't know. Do you see Celebrini and Mishkoff get into it the other day? Celebrini's good, boys. Yeah, he is good.

I've watched a couple of Sharks games. I don't know his game well enough, but Connor Bedard's a shooter, boys. He's a shooter. I mean, he should be a top 40, 50, maybe a few years, 60. Connor should hit those numbers. Yeah. No, I think Bedard is the answer there.

But yeah, not as a commentary on Celebrini so much. Who, you know, he's another name. Be curious what kind of year he could have. He's, you know, three goals in five games so far. Hasn't played much. Curious if, you know, he had a year or two, could he be a Canadian guy? You know who's dropping like a stone right now

trevor zgris he's got i think he's a goal and two assists on the year or something in like 11 how old is he 23 15 games in 15 games does he have he doesn't have two goals i will have your answers here momentarily trevor zegers, this season has one goal in 15 games, three points minus six. And yeah, was he on the cover of EA hockey, the NHL game like last year? I haven't bought one since NHL 14, so I wouldn't be able to tell you.

What an old dude. I know. No, I just am old. I used to. No, no. They sold this guy as like he was it. To your point, you don't just throw anybody on a box. But who let us in on the direction?

Adam Oates. Adam Oates is his guy. And in the year where he was having a good year and dueling the Michigan and everyone loved him, Oates was like, eh. He's got to stop doing all this for Instagram is what he said. I remember. Remember that? Yeah.

Talks about winning hockey. What is Pat Verbeek going to do there? I don't know, man. That Alex Killorn contract was terrible from day one. I just, you look at the guys that they've got rid of on the back end over the years. You look at Lindholm in Boston and Theodore in Vegas. Like, those were young guys in the guard room.

They were young enough. I don't understand. All right. Ten games tonight. Winnipeg at Tampa. You see it going still for the Jets tonight? No. Yes.

Yes, I do. Your Islanders will be tired against Vancouver. My Islanders are in real trouble. Real trouble. Edmonton comes to Toronto Saturday night after a big win against Nashville. Huge. Two or three goals. High, high, high.

Whichever game you pick, enjoy it. And we're back tomorrow, Off the Rails Fridays. Are we going to hunt down Doug McClain on a Friday? I'll text him, see what he says. See what we can do. That's what we're down Doug McClain on a Friday I'll text him see what he says see what we can do that's what we're down to everybody have a great night