Real Kyper & Bourne - Early Visit to the Rumour Mill

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Frank Seravalli joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to start the second hour, sharing the known and unknown of the Corey Perry situation. Then, a visit to the rumour mill as he discusses the Leafs' interest in Zadorov, the Canucks planning to have an active deadline, Edmonton potentially moving on from their goalie search and the availability of Juuse Saros. Later, Sam McKee joins to discuss Patrick Kane signing in Detroit, the contract details and how he fits in with the Wings.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome to the National Hour on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. We are live on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour always brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. We'll spread this out nationally by bringing in Frank Cervelli, hockey insider, president of hockey content, daily face-off. The man is going to start to get real busy in the next little while. Frank, how are you, man? I'm good, Kipper.

I think it's already been a pretty busy week with this Corey Perry contract termination, as well as a little trade by the Blackhawks on tuesday night and all sorts of stuff going on it's been a crazy week okay before we get into uh you know the pickup of uh a four million dollar contract to uh replace a four million dollar contract just any follow-ups after this frank is there a sense that this story is done or are we going to start hearing other things trickle in no i think this story is pretty far from over we still don't yet have a really clear picture as to exactly what cory perry did more than that i think it remains to be seen whether or not the nhl

players association will grieveieve this decision by the Chicago Blackhawks to terminate the contract. I just wrote a story on dailyfaceoff.com that outlines really how unprecedented it is for a player to have his contract terminated for conduct that may be considered inappropriate, but not illegal. The Blackhawks acknowledged that there was no criminal investigation here. And with that, you know, we've seen other players have their contract terminated before. But more often than not, there was something involved that had an illegality to it,

such as Mike Richards being charged for crossing the border with the Los Angeles Kings in receipt of illegal prescriptions, like things like that. This is not that. And so I think a lot of people are taking a step back saying, hold on a second here. We need more information before just saying, oh, it's okay to have a team terminate a player's contract. And not only that, Kipper, I think there's actually been a couple of teams in the last 24 to 48 hours that may be interested in adding a player like Corey Perry. So I think there's a lot left to be written here. Well, that and, you know, there's still a verdict to be kind of had on the Chicago Blackhawks handling of this.

And it seems like the beat reporters, people around the team are kind of saying they've done a pretty good job here. Like, you know, we included didn't love the press conference necessarily. But, you know, they grabbed Perry out of there. They did their investigation. They terminated him outright. Like, it sounds like they followed things to the letter of what a plan would have been, I guess.

Yeah, I think they also at the same time probably had a few hiccups PR-wise in terms of just giving people 20% more information so that you don't have social media spin its wheels and ridiculous, disgusting rumors get legs. And more than that, you know, I just think some clarity here. Did the Chicago Blackhawks, this is one question that still remains. Did they operate here in a fashion that because they're still reeling from the 2021 investigation that revealed that they covered up a sexual assault back in 2010 are they now taking a bit of a leap in this case and trying to act uh really in the best interest of the organization and the franchise to try and build up some of that trust i think we all understand how sensitive they would be given

what happened but did they potentially overreact here i think that's also a fair question to ask but it's one unfortunately that we can't answer because we don't have all of the definitive information yet listen you're you're part of the the professional writers association here uh i think you got a pretty good gauge on a level of information and uh you know where it it starts, where it can end, what's private, privileged information, what should come out in the public. If there's more to this story that includes a third party, a possible lawsuit, a possible settlement,

is that stuff that the public is owed owed or does it remain no one's business but our own it's a hard question to answer because again we don't know the details that are involved we don't know how serious or potentially but frank you're gonna try to find out are you not yeah i mean i i think here's the thing that i'm struggling with and i can tell you uh quite openly part of the reason why there hasn't been more detail that's been reported is that there's been a lot of conflicting details going back and forth you hear one thing from someone you hear something totally different on the other hand and that part has been really difficult to wrestle with as a reporter

you're dealing with as you mentioned the potential for third parties to be involved the potential for lawsuits the potential for defamation you're dealing also with a player who's had a pretty sterling reputation in his NHL career and a borderline hall of fame guy who is really well liked by teammates that now all of a sudden finds this week his career somewhat burnt to a crisp. So there's a lot of different facets in play here that I think has made this story certainly one of the more difficult that I've had to pursue in my career in journalism. K, are you good on Perry?

I'm good. All right. Yeah, so we just had our first hour talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs, and everyone on defense is hurt, and they weren't great at defending before that. So we're trying to pinpoint some names. I know that there's an article in Daily Faceoff, I think Matt Larkin wrote it,

about potential defensive partners or who might fit for the Leafs. Are there some names out there that you could see as a fit and a trade for Toronto? Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty easy to draw a line Justin from Toronto to Calgary yeah and I I would suspect that the first name that Brad Shreliving would be calling about would be Chris Tanev based on his defensive prowess and you don't have to really look much further than the clip in the last week with him blocking a shot with his face to realize that this is a guy that certainly has the commitment required to win in your own end.

That's one guy that I would circle. I think here's the thing that the Leafs have run into in those conversations that they've had with the Flames and Brad Treliving's former employer is, A, they're not really ready to make a move yet with some of their pending free agents because their team has gotten back in the race and b i think the other reason why they're not in a rush is because the trade deadline isn't until march 8th there's no reason unless someone's knocking your socks off to go out and execute a trade at this exact moment in time especially while your team is still hanging

around and you don't have a fully formed idea yet as to exactly what they are are the flames under 500 at this quarter juncture of the season yes they are but with the mushy middle in the west and the ability to climb into that wild card race i think it's unfair to count them out just yet and until they are out i think they're going to wait and hold off on making any judgments so that's one aspect of this that I think has been a roadblock in terms of the Leafs trying to find defensemen. And I think the other part is you want to make sure that whoever you're getting is making an impact.

And there's a lot of names that have been floating out there of late that you might say, hey, the Leafs could go out and get this guy. And the answer might be yes, but is he going to make a big enough impact to be worth the squeeze what about a guy like uh zadoroff do you think uh the leafs or anybody else that's uh interested in in zadoroff would need to trade as if they're gonna resign them we've seen so many particularly in toronto uh through kyle dubas trade for pretty big significant names only to watch them walk out the door months later here

are the leafs in a position to to rent the door off at all i i love renting uh i and i say that as someone who owns my house but i love the idea of renting a defenseman, particularly because you never really know how the fit is going to be. And like I would say that specifically with regards to Tana, because he is injury prone and he is a little bit older, that he's definitely the type of player that you hang out with and date instead of marry. But when it comes to Zadaroff, like I think the less commitment, the better, because yes, he's someone that can impact your team, can provide an element that some other guys can't. You guys saw firsthand in Toronto, big hit scores a goal.

But at the same time, I think the overall overarching thought on Zadaroff is that he's truly a third pair defenseman. And if that's what the Leafs are acquiring, no sense really paying a pre-market premium to lock him up when you could then just wait and see how things unfold. And I think that's kind of really the beauty of what the Leafs have gone through this past summer is Domi, Bertuzzi, Klingberg,

you know, all one-year deals. And I think probably you're sitting here right now feeling, hey, pretty good, November 29th. Thank God we didn't really go much longer. Maybe the one exception to that is Bertuzzi, but Klingberg, like you don't often get a redo on something like that. And the Leafs now have that second life. Frank, the one thing that I sit in here and pull my hair out about daily is like the Leafs probably need to make a trade.

And it's like, but it's hard. People tell Kipper tells me, but it's hard to make a trade. You know, is it or is it that hard? Is there going to be trades at some point or is the salary cap just ruined the trade market? It's not just the salary cap. I think part of it, Justin, is general managers are naturally risk averse. And I was actually talking about this with Doug Armstrong a couple weeks back when I was in Toronto at the Hall of Fame.

And it was when he first started in his career and there's a lot of sort of first time, you know, new younger GMs that are in these roles. He said, what you go through is this feeling like you're only going to make a trade if you know you're winning it. And there's so few of those to be had that I think the big part of that is people are looking for an easy PR win as opposed to a deal that just sort of makes sense. And I'll give you a perfect recent example. It's happened within the last 24 hours, this Beauvillier deal, trading him to Chicago. The Blackhawks are without Taylor Hall for the rest of the season. Then Corey Perry's gone.

You need some support, some roster support, some scoring support for Conor Bedard. Okay, so you bring in Beauvillier. The Canucks were in a spot previously where trying to move off salary from their books was probably going to cost them money. Now these two things happen in Chicago and all of a sudden a deal materializes where they can get a fifth round pick instead of giving up something. And you can kind of just nod your head and shake hands and say, okay, this makes sense. This works for both sides. There probably needs to be more of that. And the other thing i would say as a third option would be a reason would be the fact that gms kind of need a deadline in order to make something happen it seems like

if there wasn't one on march 8th or whenever the date is every year that i would bet that we'd see way fewer trades than we already do we're talking to frank cerveerovelli, Hockey Insider, with Daily Faceoff. It seems like the Oilers have calmed things down a little bit. Has their search for a goaltender calmed down as well? I think maybe a little bit because I was just talking about the idea for the Leafs of weighing impact and cost. And that's one thing that Edmonton really ran into was there's a whole host of names out there that they could go and get but i'm not sure that they were sold that relative to cost

that they'd be getting a guaranteed impact and that is certainly the nature of the beast with the position um i i like to say goaltending is voodoo you never really know what you're going to get week to week let alone with a guy changing teams in the middle of the season and i think that even though his play might not have warranted it there's a chance that we see jack campbell back called up to the nhl in relatively short order i think they were thinking sometime around december 1st in order to try and get his game in order um he had a rough start to his tenure in Bakersfield, and I think at some point they'd probably swap him out for Cal Pickard and try and get him going again at the NHL level.

We'll see if that works, but that's their thought process right now as they seem to be outscoring and outrunning a lot of the problems that they had a few weeks back. Frank, I know you have the audacity to not exist in Canada, but we talk about the Canadian teams quite a bit up here. You know, the Leafs likely to be active. Any other Canadian teams that you think are going to be the most active out of this group of, you know, everyone kind of thinks

they can be a playoff team? Yeah, I'd say the Vancouver Canucks are right at the top of that list. And the reason for that is just look at the newfound cap space that they have after moving off of Beauvillier. I mean, Vancouver, since Patrick Alveen took over as GM and Jim Rutherford as president of Hockey Ops, they have been preaching cap flexibility. And now really for the first time in their tenure,

after trading away a bunch of pieces and at times paying really significant prices. As we're reminded with Chicago's Jason Dickinson scoring another goal last night, they've paid high prices to get rid of guys on their roster. This time around, they were a little bit more fortunate with Beauvillier, but they have some cap flexibility that for a team that's really struggled with injuries on their back end, Carson Soucy out for a while, Tyler Myers was banged up. They're now using depth defensemen in their lineup again, which they were really trying to avoid.

They've had to break up their top pair. That was so good between Hronik and Hughes that you're now counting on Noah Juleson and Cole McWard and all these guys that probably are fringe NHL players. That to me was the biggest story as to why they weren't a playoff team last year and their hot start this year. The contrasting image there is that the Vancouver Canucks put competent defensemen that have experience in their lineup. And now that some of those guys have gone down, it feels like they're kind of hanging on for dear life as they try and stabilize that, which I think they're going to try and

attempt to do here in the next week or two. Frank, when we look at the standings outside of maybe San Jose and the sharks, everybody wants to stay in it and, and try to, I think make the playoffs here. I mean,

outside of the two teams I mentioned, who do you see eventually putting up the for sale sign and, and start making some players available. I 95% of the league, I think is thinking that they're, they're going to the playoffs. Well, that was actually another reason that I didn't include in why we haven't, we seen very much activity is go through some of those teams. The Chicago Blackhawks would sell. They've got nothing left to pick at.

The Minnesota Wild aren't there yet. The Anaheim Ducks are trying to build in the other direction through some of the youth that they have. Who are they going to move? Adam Henrique? I mean, go through some of these teams and then switch to the Eastern Conference. There's not a long teaming list of these clubs

that are really trying to put a bunch of players out there. Are some of them open for business? Would the Vancouver Canucks move Connor Garland? Of course. Would the Philadelphia Flyers be open to moving some of their pending UFA defensemen? Sure, if the price is right. But we're at this sort of juncture where too many teams are in the mix competitively because of the way the standings work,

because of the mushy middle that exists in the Western Conference that everyone's just kind of sitting back saying, well, hey, if I could roll the dice this year, if you're St. Louis and you don't have to tear down and continue to take away players and still make the playoffs this year as an absolute bonus, St. Louis, Nashville, both those teams are both sort of rebuilding, retooling quietly and hoping to be competitive in two to three years. But what if you can just kind of sneak in in your market? It's just an absolute bonus that some of those teams are like, well, why would we give up right now? Yeah, no, that makes sense. And last one for me, Frank, is kind

of related to that. you know we've seen dean evison get fired we saw chris knobloch come in it just doesn't feel like there's a lot of coaches in a position where they're going to get fired but we are seeing that teams can't do a lot it's one of the only moves they have is there anyone else you think like looking around the league that could potentially be on the hot seat this season it just it feels like one of the only options you have as a gm to try to jumpstart your team yeah i think everyone's been focused justin on dj smith and ottawa and not to say that there's not reason for that but every piece of intel that i can gather is that the sens don't have any interest in making a coaching change that they're trying to stabilize their situation with all the drama that's existed this season

between a GM change, a 41-game suspension to one of their players, a first pick forfeiture, all those things that have been piled into this start of the year that has also included some really underwhelming results. So I don't think they're going to do that, make that change with DJ Smith. I think another name to consider would be Lane Lambert on Long Island.

I think the Islanders have not found the consistency and success, certainly from an offensive perspective that they'd like to have. Lou Amorello is not afraid to make a coaching change. That's another that I'd keep an eye on. I'm still kind of surprised about Dean Evason and Jay Woodcroft, given the starts that these teams had. I mean, just look at their track record for success. Jay Woodcroft, 643 points percentage in his tenure in Edmonton. You had Dean Evason, who if he didn't lose the last seven games

to close out his tenure in Minnesota, would have been north of Jay Woodcroft. He finished at 639. So I look at this and I say, we've had some sort of middling results already from some of these coaching changes. Yes. John Hines picks up a first win in his first game with the Minnesota wild, but on the longterm,

did these teams make the right decisions? I guess we'll see. One more for me and a team that i find intriguing to watch moving forward in the new year towards the trade deadline is the nashville predators we saw them go out there sign ryan o'reilly luke shen yet they might be one of those teams you're talking about that wants to try to maybe make the playoffs while they rebuild. So where does that leave Sammy's favorite goalie, Saros? He's not in play. I actually had a lengthy sit-down with Barry Trotz,

also when I was in Toronto a couple weeks back for Hall of Fame, and he said, look, when we get to where we're trying to get to in two to three years, we want UC Saros to continue to be the backbone of ourc soros to continue to be the backbone of our team we'd like to re-sign him so i don't have any indication that soros is in play from barry trotz's lips specifically and and more than that um i i also don't see this team trying to add in the short term they don't really have that much left to pick at as mentioned and sort of pluck off of this team and sell.

Maybe someone like a Carrier at the deadline who's a pending UFA. But the Preds seem pretty content of sort of just staying in this middle where they can sell to their marketplace and their fan base that's used to a high bar of success that they can be in the mix and ultimately get back to being a team that has true Stanley Cup aspirations for a 10-year run. Hey, Frank, excellent stuff today, man. Tons of information. Look forward to the next few months and certainly bringing you back on

to update us on a ton of stuff moving forward. Thanks for doing this. Have a good one, guys. Yeah, thanks, Frank. Frank Cervelli, Hockey Insider. Daily Faceoff. Wealth of knowledge. What do you want to take out of that? That sitting

here in Toronto, it feels like it's hard to make trades, and Calgary has one trade. No one wants to trade anyone because everyone thinks that they can make the playoff. Well, they're a perfect example of sometimes not overreacting. The flames. Yeah. Everybody had them dead and buried.

Yeah. And now they're feeling good about themselves and in a position to make the playoffs. I mean, they are kind of knocking at the door, aren't they? Oh, yeah. So it is. It's that West being weak is going to make it a lot harder for the teams to declare themselves for sale, as you put it,

in terms of some of their assets. So that'll be... Slow the fun down a little bit. My favorite goalie is not getting traded. No. Saros? Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Push comes to shove shove someone makes an off like a big offer to me the kings is like the spot that's the one to me like i would agree like because they're running cam talbot out there i get that but he's playing really well i get that but at

some point if you're going to be a stanley come contender you're going to win it with talbot maybe i don't know you know what what the Kings road record is this year? Yeah, I feel like perfect. 9-0-0. Yeah. Haven't lost. It's pretty good. Center depth.

You know what I'm really happy to? Byfield. Yeah. Right? Found it. Tons of pressure. Contemplating a first pick overall. He slides just, I think, one one under and did not get off to

the great start it's the pandemic he's spending some time in the american hockey league but i tell you what that guy is turning himself into a really good solid player it's almost like the ahl is not a career-ending move for a young player you know yeah you can go down there and really hone your skills your craft you know a good example so he's in the nhl last year has three goals in 53 games uh they send him to the american league where he has 15 points and 16 games in the ahl nine goals nine goals so he finds it feels himself at the pro level this year he's got 16 points in 19 games go spend a little bit of time in the American Hockey League. Send Crosby down.

Everyone needs a little time. I'm talking 18 years of age. Okay. 19. I don't understand this. If you're, I get you want to protect the junior ranks, right? If you're not going to play for the big club, you have to go play back in junior if you're eligible.

Why do we have to do that, though? I don't know. That's my point. As a bleeding heart junior hockey fan, because they want to preserve good players playing in small towns and they want to keep the league afloat. But if players are good enough to play in the American Hockey League, then the next player who's good is going to shine at that level.

It's not a development decision. It's a business decision. For sure, which I am fond of. Just grummy. I'm fond of. Yeah, it's great because you get stars to go to your hometown. Yeah, well, not my hometown. No, but just in general, it's a very popular.

Anyways, I like that there's guys that go to junior still from the NHL. I like that there's guys that go to junior still from the NHL. I like that rule. It is. But I'm an 18-year-old adult, and I cannot pick where I want to go to work. Yeah. There's just something fundamentally wrong with that. Yeah.

And I think there's a lot to be learned playing against other men. You know, like as you try to graduate to the NHL, playing to that level can, you know, it's wonderful for development and get to be the guy, man, play the big minutes. Kipper, before game time, you said you wanted to talk about Kane when we were here. Yeah, because he met the media and, I don't know,

obviously with the, yeah, listen, he's. I was going to cut some tape of it. I was like, oh, no, I'm not. Don't dump on Pat Kane. He said the right things. Nothing. Yeah, I know. I like him. Yeah, I like him.

We didn't get a chance to kind of talk about the signing because of I guess Corey Perry news and I don't know. We talked about it with Jovo. We got the medical side of it with Jovo. We didn't discuss it. I am somewhat surprised that he would pick Detroit

because I don't think that there's any guarantee that they're a lot to make the playoffs. That was the one thing he did say in the press conference that might have been interesting. He's like, yeah, I hope to help them make the playoffs. Like, yeah, they're in third in their division and winning. You'd think it would have been more of a sure thing if he would have picked Colorado, Florida, Vegas.

Austin. Dallas. I found the 2.75 interesting. Okay. Because it's not nearly the money that we would have first thought correct well right i was more shocked at the term higher you did yes well i kind of thought just from talking to kip and kind of i thought maybe we're looking like a three-year deal around four million or something like that to me, to me, was where I thought

it would somehow end up. I wonder if just because no one has any space, the good teams are pretty capped out. Yes. Yeah, you're not wrong on any of that. And I wonder if there's a prove-it factor like no one with a bad hip has ever come back and been good. That's exactly right.

I think what happened was that him and his agent probably thought that we could still find a way to get a decent contract on a multi-year deal and it didn't exist you know uh when my wife and i first moved to toronto from arizona uh they showed us some apartments here and they're like 500 square feet and two thousand dollars a month and we were like no we're not doing that. Sorry. Looked like 10 of them.

No, I'm not spending that for that size. And eventually, if you want to move here, yeah, that's exactly what happened. And I think that's what happened with Kane. You just keep thinking you're going to look around and you're going to find the, you know, 2,000 square foot place that's $1,000 a month. It doesn't exist. It's not reality. So for his services at this point in his career with a bad hip you know trying to be on a good team this

is the best he could do and but okay i was just yeah but like at a certain point like is is the difference of say a million dollars and 2.7 enough for you to go to a team that you think might make the playoffs or a team for sure making the playoffs. So you're saying, would he not have been better off to say, I'll go play for the Bruins for 1.5? It doesn't really matter. The guy has made, if I'm not mistaken, 107 million.

Does it really matter? You've had money. You still liked the money after you had money, right? There's that kind of, I don't after you had money right but there's there's there's that kind of i don't want to say ego but there's a there's a principle involved in wanting more money because you don't want to be totally taken advantage looked at as like but i don't know if 2.75 does it for me gets you into that respect i thought four would have done it if. Doesn't get you into that respect echelon. I thought four would have done it. If I can't get four or three, I might as well take a million and maybe go to Vegas or Colorado

than Detroit. Would you like to know his estimated career earnings? Yeah, hold on. Let me guess first. Let me guess. 107. Yeah, I'll take the over on his number. 115.

Ugh. Yeah, not bad. the over on his number. 1-15. Ugh. Okay. Whew. Yeah, not bad. It's a good number. Good number. I'm going to walk back everything I've said so far and agree with you wholeheartedly.

He probably should have gone for minimum somewhere. Right? And just give the team a chance to add more. Yeah, but that paycheck still hits your account. You want it to be high? The old Phil Mickelson burn rate? I'm cheering for him because our league is really a lot better when Pat Kane's doing his thing.

He did say, he's like, one thing I can do better is, you know, basically use my legs. He's like, I can cross over better. My lateral movement is better. And that's all I think of Kane is like, which way am I going? Sometimes I forget about like the human element of this too too but when you're sitting in the room negotiating with like with steve eiserman it's probably like oh this is cool like he's not he's patrick kane you don't think yeah he's sitting across the room from school but it's not affecting you i think he's

far past that you don't think that's going to influence him at all having stevie eiserman telling him you he wants you on your team. It has nothing to do with it. You guys are nuts. I think as long as it matches the things that you like to hear, then you're fine. Then it's like whipped cream and

a cherry. I'm not disagreeing with you, but it has to match with what I'm hearing overall. Who had a better career, Kane or Eisenman? Eisenman, for sure. No question. Not the first eight years.

Someone who knows stats is going to be for that question. No, it's definitely Eisenman. But on my TikTok algorithm, because it was Patrick Kane, and I was looking at Patrick Kane stuff, his hat trick came up against the Blackhawks. I think were they 1-7-5 or whatever? And he just danced

Shane O'Brien, cut into the middle, and then backhand cheese the opposite way. Pete Kane was nasty. Chelsea dagger going off. It was like, this guy was a killer, man. He was unbelievable in his prime. Poor Shane O'Brien. It was a bad, big, tough click. Prime Patrick Kane, man.

Anyways, you guys want to do some game time? Let her rip. Sammy. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Untarriable only.

Please play responsibly. Now, I was just checking in on some playoff odds because I like to do that with the Edmonton Oilers. And the Edmonton Oilers, after their three-game winning streak, correct, have now vaulted all the way back up to minus 190 to make the playoffs. Wow, what a swing. The books are a roller coaster. They're going back and forth. They don't know what to do with this team,

but they are a prohibitive favorite. Well, not prohibitive, but pretty big favorite to be in the playoffs. You want my betting advice? Hammer it. Just bet that. The lowest you're going to get it in a while. The pressure right now on Connor to be good every game

is off the charts. He had 11 points in three games. He was like 59th in the league a few days ago. He's 9th now. And he was like 59th in the league i know a few days ago he's now and he cannot take his foot off the pedal at all he had 150 points last year he can do this he can will this team uh see you just the promised land like you just make it sound like it's just so easy and it's and it's not it's not he's the best hockey player I've ever witnessed do hockey. And he's in the prime of his career.

If he can't do it, no one can, I believe, is the great cheerleader chant from my youth. I mean, I'm a full-on believer in the guy. I understand that it's not that easy. And the risk may be too much ask, lead to injury. I'm just talking about the pressure to perform every night and it would be nice every once in a while if he didn't have that but i guess because of the the cap and the way it's built and the constant you're the highest paid guy outside of Austin next season,

that you just need to score three points every night. I'll give you two. And if it doesn't bounce, if it doesn't go his way, we see the Connor that we saw a week and a half, two weeks ago. It's awfully early in the season to now wear that yeah that's that is i will say maybe the best point about the hole they dug for themselves is that there's no leeway now they took the wiggle room out to have a five game losing streak i'm watching these games now and i don't know if it's confidence i don't know if it's going

in again i don't know if he's feeling better but he looks like connor mcdavid again dude he scores on that breakaway barely flinched yeah and his his shootout goal last night was just like the easiest things that are done in his life like he really just looks like himself again so he does i think he might i think he was kind of hurt boys like there are also times when he can look like that and still look behind him and see evan Bouchard right beside him and go, why are you here? Why are you here? Why are you here right now?

Well, he got all the way up there in three-on-three last night and he had a tap in and missed it at the end. So the other thing, oh, yeah, and he's plus 350 now to be the MVP. So maybe haven't I attacked him. Were you kind of nervous for them a little bit at 4-2 and then watching it go to 4-4 last night with, what, six, five minutes to go? They were carrying the play in the third period. And all of a sudden, two go in.

And how about the Golden Knights having their fourth line on the ice with two minutes left in the game? Keegan Coles are standing in the blue paint. He bats one in the midair. It's like there's not many teams that are putting their fourth line out there. So good. The other two quick ones I had for the playoff odds, the Flames are plus 105. So they're

starting to believe a little bit in the Flames. They're in a playoff spot. I want a better number on that, I think. And just to mention the Red Wings, because we were talking about Patrick Kane, they're plus 100 to make the playoffs. And you had mentioned the tougher teams that they were facing now in Calgary,

Vegas, Dallas, I think Thursday. So big challenges, but they already beat Dallas a week ago. And Vegas too. I think the best thing that could happen for the Flames is clarity, as in they win going to run here, they get hot, they win five in a row, or they lose five in a row and decide to go the other direction. The sort of wishy-washy is where you don't trade the people you need for

assets before they get hurt, and you don't make the playoffs anyway. So they need clarity. And the last thing I have for a game tonight is Capitals visiting the Kings. One team can score and defend, one team can't score. Give me the Kings minus a goal and a half plus 120. Like that.

That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. On terror only. Please play responsibly. Okay, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back,

we'll discuss a little Brock Besser leading the league in goals. Who saw that coming? And also, former Norris Trophy winner coming back to play tonight. Oh, yeah. We'll tell you who after the break. Real Kipper and Bourne. everything Raptors before and after the games, the Raptor show with will Lou subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, after dropping four of six, the Vancouver Canucks with a big win last night against Anaheim. Sinking like a stone. Who, Anaheim? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, boy. And Brock Besser, 17th goal of the season, leads the league.

We're almost. I know. We're coming close to Christmas. I heard. No one saw that coming. It was our boy Tim McAuliffe who called the Brockett Richard Trophy for Brock Besser, which I like. Yeah, the Canucks have some unbelievable seasons going on.

Obviously, his is noteworthy. First time in NHL history a team has had four, with 25 points in 23 games to start the season. So they have four of them just humming along. It's a crazy turnaround for Besser. He was maligned. Like, that was a guy that... A year ago, he was talking about trade, right? Yeah, he was a guy that they were...

I feel like he was offered up, like... Not only offered on trade, but, you know, contemplating how much money we might have to hold back to move the contract. Jeez. And, I don't know, lead the league in scoring. It's only costing you $6 million right now. It's looking pretty good.

Not too bad. But, you know, the other thing, too, is too is you know he lost his dad and it was it hit him hard yeah naturally but can never underestimate where guys are sometimes emotionally and and how it's affecting them i know you don't you don't talk about it in the media you don't share that sort of stuff but there's no question that he seems at peace with a lot more today than in the last little while which i'm very happy for him it is a crazy thing that we come on here and everyone else you know that does sports analysis and we just have to kind of assess the play without knowing you know what's going on at home and personal lives and whatever and how much guys can be affected by it.

So we're just like, I think he's not trying very hard. You know, sometimes there's real meaningful reasons for being off. Yeah, sort of like you in our first hour telling us that you watched the third period first of last night's Leafs game last night against Florida. And there's a very good reason why. The Quentin Tarantino of hockey viewings. Yeah, I like to do things. I feel like, so like, you know, my kids go to bed,

and I was on Hockey Central last night with Gazdik and Jammer and DA, so I didn't get home until later. This guy, you just do it all. Yeah, I was doing some things. And so when I get home, I can start it from the beginning. But then you miss out on the social media element and our group text. And you guys are all over it last night. You send the messages.

We were hot last night. Isn't there that feeling of being left out? Yeah, so I need to be there live for the rest of it and then go back and watch the front half. And this is why advertisers love pro sports. They're a taping. You just proved that theory. For sports. They're a tape-in. You just proved that theory. For sure. You can't tape.

And then by theory, by the way, I tell myself that I'll have a different perspective than you guys because I'll have watched it out of order. It's actually good for the show is how I tell it. No recording. Yeah. It's not. The group chat isn't hot every Leafs game,

but certain ones it warms up. I feel like it used to be every game. We have way less texts from Kip this year that say the opponent sucks. That's true. That was a big thing last year. We have ironed that out. It's just because the Leafs suck. That's why we get.

That's what it is. So upcoming games. It's just as simple as this. They stink. Exclamation point. Exclamation point. That's the whole message. Exclamation point.

Really stinks. Hold on. I think that's a great segue because we had Valley on yesterday, Steve Allicat from MSG, and something he said yesterday stuck with me. And then you followed it up. All the teams look the same. They're all the same. 23 and a half teams that are the same. That bothers me when i

heard that and i'm not saying he's not wrong but i don't want a league where 32 teams look the same i don't think fans do either well the salary cap thanks gary yeah that's we got what you wanted do anything else you can't keep good players and also i don't know if i can what's it just i i get the salary cap and and extreme parity cap and they got it but i think kip your point is about extreme mediocrity well they got parity but i also think that you know how far can we refine excellence like you know goaltenders are all like precision now so they all have to look the same to maximize efficiency and whatever they can't look that different if you want to maximize efficiency and maybe that's elite talent in hockey kind of looks the same a lot so i mean that's what they would argue that mediocrity of what the league looks like everybody looks the same on

their side of it they would say it's parody yeah everyone's it like let me read this list of teams to you that's leading the league and if they could win the cup vegas yeah rangers just going i'll tell you when to stop boston vancouver colorado la stars florida winnipeg carolina red wings toronto maple leaf yeah you're into that group now where you go like there are all these teams to me i guess like you look at vegas as an elite team you look at the rangers an elite team like the bruins are scuffling recently like they're not you look at their roster on paper just like this let guys pay no money look the same even though you have a similar salary cap. You can pick different looking players.

Yeah, but hey, the Leafs did it for years with the Jiu-Jitsu teams. There has to be a few meatheads out there that can play. There are. We need more meatheads. They're valued. Highly valued. Tom Wilson costs a lot of money. Just get good ones.

Just find them. They have to exist exist they have to be out there junior east coast college yeah that's right if you're a young player just lean into being different give us something else will you entertain us yeah being a meathead pays what's the what did tom wilson just sign all right he's six now seven Seven-year, $45 million contract starting next season. All you have to do is be hyper-tough. He's also really good at hockey. Yeah, he's like a linebacker on skates.

Yeah, he's really good. Which helps. J.J. Watt had hands. Jacob Truba doesn't look like any other player out there. Yeah, you can build a personality. I think Florida has that personality of being a tougher team.

Leafs for years tried to do that. Did you send me something on TikTok or whatever where someone smacked somebody's head off and put it in a Blue Jay uniform like it was a home run? Is this what you do? You can't get

me the right name of a producer on this show what's his name willie willie but you can send me that so it was said to me one of my hundred group chats it's a video of uh truba doing the slash yeah but then it like goes to the bat flip yeah and it does the bat flip and he hits. Whose head did he hit? Frederick's head into the front row. It's a deep drive. It was very funny.

I thought it was great. How did he not get suspended for 10 games? Answer that question. We should never discuss that. This one, I watched it a couple more times. I am baffled beyond belief that that isn't suspendable. I think they probably overthought it. And they were like, oh, he's on his, you know,

he's falling over and he's pulling away. It's like, nah, it's reckless. I had it at three games. Yeah, you can't. The old refs can't do that. You had it higher? But he slashed a guy in the face. Yeah. You could have easily given him five for that. Not a ton of damage, but that's what we do now.

We got to make sure, like, if he lies on the ice and rolls around, is that better effect? That's a good point. He's probably getting suspension. Also, how tough is Frederick? Give him credit for not milking yet. It's like a pit bull to this stone head. But there is an appetite for some players to milk it.

Yeah, of course. Bunting played here last year. You mentioned the Frederick head home run. Also, you mentioned Otani. Oh, I saw. You want to do this? Are the Blue Jays in it? Apparently, according to some people,

the Blue Jays are one of the four finalists. Not apparently an exclusive list, but ones that are still in the mix are the Toronto Blue Jays, the Angels, the Dodgers, and the Chicago Cubbies are the four teams that are apparently still really in it. So Chicago, Los Angeles, what was the other city? Los Angeles. LA. LA, LA, Chicago, Toronto. Listen, I have a sense, I don't know if I'm going to

disappoint you or not, but I think the Jays are getting played right now. For sure. I mean, I think this is something that... The Jays are a peak leverage team. Not to do Jays takes here, but a lot of times over the past few summers, you have to give them, or if winners,

you have to give them credit. They've landed some big fish. George Springer, Hunjin Ryu, Chris Bassett, Kevin Gosman. They've landed some big fish. But they've also been like right there for a lot of them where I think they like to get the narrative out there that they're involved.

I think it's probably the players' side that wants to keep a big market fish in to drive... The Jays will pay for me if you don't. To drive the price up. Yeah. I think it's a mutually beneficial relationship that the Jays like to have their name involved in these kind of things.

What would the Otani tax be to come to Canada? You know, if he's going to make $500, they got to pay him $600? I mean, I would say it's not my money, but I literally work for Rogers, so maybe it might be my money. It could affect you. There's nothing left. Could be my money. Okay, that would be, like, really good for baseball in Canada, by the way.

I would say that would work out just fine. You can't even pitch next year, though, right? You can't pitch next year, but there's nothing that would... Like, you're making that back very quickly in terms of eyeballs, in terms of, no, the people that come to the park, you're selling out every night, the jersey sales, the attention, the ratings in overseas. Like, he is a top five famous guy maybe, like, the attention, the ratings in overseas. He is a top five

famous guy maybe on sports and sports when it comes to the world. So bring him. Pay the money. It'll be all great when he just signs with the Dodgers. Alright, as we mentioned earlier, the New York Rangers coming off a 5-1 loss to the Buffalo Sabres

will get Norris trophy winner, Adam Fox, back in the lineup. They sure could use him. Not really. No, that Rangers decor. They're still good without him. Yeah, you got Ryan Lindgren and Adam Fox,

Keiondre Miller and Jacob Truba as pair two, Braden Schneider on the third pair, and then Eric Gustafson, who, say what you will about him, he's having an unbelievable season for the Rangers. That's a hell of a decor. Good matchup with the Red Wings tonight. Be interested to see if they have a little bump from getting Kane.

When's he going to play? Is he playing tonight? He says he's going in a week against Buffalo, I believe. Oh, okay. You want to get him in there. If you're a Red Wings fan, like, oh, he's got Kane, get him in there. And if red wings fan like oh he's got cane get him in there and if you're him like if he's good to go what am i missing here i'm nervous for him though that it's gonna well how many guys have went down on with with a hip issue yeah hip situation i don't know that there's one who's come back and had a wildly successful run post resurfacing.

You know, we ran through the list the other day. It was Jovo. Jovo played 39 games. None for Kessler. Heglin? No. Anyway, but yeah, no one's really had a ton of success. Oh, at Backstrom. Yeah.

I don't know how that went. So, yeah, fingers crossed for the guy that he's able to do it. And if he does. Yeah, Heglin, Kessler, Jovo, Backstrom for the guy that he's able to do it. And if he does... Hagelin, Kessler, Jovo, Backstrom was the four. And if he does, I wonder how quickly a follow-up contract... Like if he comes out and lights it up for a couple months, he might say, keep me around, pay me or send me out of town. Detroit will say, we want to keep you around.

Yeah. I am curious about something you mentioned yesterday, that he could potentially still be a deadline move, if it doesn't work for Detroit. Yeah, I think there's a couple of different options. It's open. It's open based on how he looks, how he feels, how he produces. And, yeah.

He could get traded before the trade deadline, or he could sign an extension and stay in Detroit. He said he was most excited to play with Debrinkit, right? They've had success in the past. He says they're pals off the ice, so that's part of the reason he's in Detroit. It also kind of feels like it's the start of Emmitt Smith on the Arizona Cardinals. Yeah, I would agree with that.

Well said. All right, boys, we're out of time. Our thanks to Frank Cervelli, Hockey Insider, from the Daily Faceoff with some great stuff. All right, boys, we're out of time. Our thanks to Frank Cervelli, Hockey Insider from the Daily Faceoff with some great stuff. As always, glad you're aboard. Get a chance, give us a rating, a review. Love to hear from you. Got issues with Sammy or JB,

lay them all out. I can sympathize with you. Have a great night, everybody. We're back tomorrow. We'll be right back.