Real Kyper & Bourne - Eastern Conference FOMO

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Gord Stellick and Sam McKee open with Leafs rumours and reports as they continue to wait for looming decisions regarding Kyle Dubas and Sheldon Keefe. Tripp Tracy from Bally Sports Television joins the show (45:18) to tee up tonight’s Game 1 Conference Final match-up between the Hurricanes and Panthers, Carolina's blueline strength and the playoff success from former Leafs’ goalie Freddie Andersen. Next up, Panthers Analyst Jeff Chychrun addresses the idea of the Panthers being the underdog throughout the playoffs, playoff Bobrovsky and Radko Gudas' gritty impact on the Leafs (1:07:20). Finally, TNT analyst Darren Pang shares his thoughts on which of the remaining coaches deserves to hoist the Cup for the first time as a coach, the difference between winning as a coach and winning as a player and what to take away from the lack of elite goalies left in the playoffs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. Live on Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet's YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, iTunes, Spotify. Glad you're aboard for the next couple hours. Real Kipper and Born, Derek Brandeo, David Sissboomba, Sammy McKee. And he's wonderful he's talented put your huns together for the lovely

gorgeous Gord Stelic oh my god Sunday Night Wrestling I feel like that at Maple Leaf Gardens yes the Iron Cheek maybe someone like that I'm ready Kip ready couple of days off for Justin Bourne on this long weekend well

deserved for our our guy and uh we're happy that you're on board here for the next two hours and tomorrow as well so tons of things to get into gordon welcome aboard oh good yeah now uh kippy um might as well be here because everyone's talking about the Leafs anyway. Do you not find that? Like, you know, people say, hey, I hope you don't mind if I bother you. I go, no, otherwise I wouldn't make a living if people weren't interested. I think we could easily burn two hours just trying to figure out again what the heck happened on Monday. Yeah, no, totally.

And that's a big thing honestly the and i know we're going to talk about the eastern conference final getting underway in the west and we are all those kinds of things but just to add to that uh in about 20 minutes trip tracy carolina hurricanes uh bally sports television digging in with trip the podcast and you know trips story has been well documented publicly and his road back to broadcasting with Carolina so happy to have him on the show

and we will get into the Eastern Conference Jeff Chikrin as well from Panthers TV and of course my former roommate with the Hershey Bears was he? How many roommates do you think you had? Oh, I'd probably say about 20,

25. Well, good. Good guys. You're looking for a place to stay? Years ago, yes. Right now, I'm okay. I'm okay right now. So everything's good. Everything's good. And then Darren Pang in the fourth hour. So we'll have some fun here. Do you remember Pang's quote to Sports Illustrated a thousand

years ago when he was the third goalie with the Chicago Blackhawks? And back then they were big on you room together for cost reasons, right? Two to a room. And he just said something about, well, there's no problem because, I don't know, say it was Tony Espresso. I don't know who the, whoever it was, it wouldn't be Tony, but whoever it was and somebody else, and they just put me in the drawer. They just put him in the, you know, whatever.

That's how we fit with three Goldies way back when. It's funnier when Darren said it. It was a Seinfeld episode. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. He put a few people in the drawer. Guys are visiting from another country.

And I think Kramer organized all that. Okay, Gord, you may be the perfect guy to ask this question because you've followed the Leafs for a very long time and you've seen some storylines that have led to you scratching your head. Yeah. Where does Monday rank for you? Right up there. I'll tell you the last one before that was after one year of Kyle Dubas and

Mike Babcock, when they both faced the media and you said, are you guys with the same team? Right. That you got. And again, I throw that a little bit of Brendan that, you know, both faced the media and you said are you guys with the same team right that you got and again i throw that a little bit of brendan that you know kyle dubas inherited mike babcock who said i'm not this guy's guy so i don't give a bleep you know what he says and it was very obvious

in that exit press conference that particular year and then kyle had to come up and basically took the blame for everything kind of a you know Babcock, yeah, it was just kind of a weird one. This one, okay, first, we chatted about it. I visited with you and Justin a couple of days ago that it almost seemed like the players, it's almost scripted. You know, it's almost like, you know, and I don't knock that.

I mean, nothing really crazy comes out in those post-game, in those days. I thought it was really encouraging austin matthews saying about long term he didn't sit on the fence and give a vanilla answer like so that was good to hear if you're a leaf fan but like first of all you're wondering about the scrutiny of the general manager scrutiny of the coach you look what happened to jeff gorton a couple years with the rangers gerard glant this year with the rangers peter deborah now coaching his fourth different team into the conference final.

Like, based on your record, there's a case that can be made, a very good case, and I'm not saying I'm making it, that change there is one or the two. You change Lou Lamorello when things are going well, right? You know, so anyway, I thought maybe there'd be a little bit something more forthcoming there. We saw with Gerard Gallant that you can still face the media and not be there. And I'm not trying to get these guys fired. But then Kyle's going public. And his raw honesty, I always appreciate raw honesty because we get too many sound bites from people in general about the kind of pressures his family are feeling.

All of a sudden was, well, there's going to be more pressure next year. I'm just giving my opinion. I don't know how you're able to handle it or not handle it, but that's a big, big concern. And so are we on hold until, like, I don't know, like obviously internally they must have known that or been aware of it, I would think. Otherwise, you know, so it's like Ryan Favreau just said to you,

are we going to have something going to happen on the weekend? Like, you know, like what, like what, are we just waiting now? Is this, is this, you know, is this camp, you know, just wait it out and we'll get, we'll get back to you kind of thing. So, cause you got decisions to be made, right? I don't mean you have to get rid of everybody or whatever, but just guys can start having no trade contracts and whatever July 1st. And if you're

going to, if you said you're open to anything, well, that that's a bigger statement than other years. But then you're saying I may not be the person. So there's got to be a person like is Brendan Shanahan going to step in Kippy for like, you know, like what happens? Or does he all of a sudden just Kyle is one week enough

to get everything straightened out? Like really get everything straightened out. Like I live near, I think I told you Alex and topless and he went through a situation with the blue Jays and that was more public. They really hired his successor, but then they offered him something turned down five years, $10 million.

Yeah. And I remember talking to him a few times like in end, but there was a plan and he went ultimately won a world series with the atlanta braves but he went through a lot of soul searching and he was assessing jesus taking a toll on my family i don't even know if i want to get back into it like he went through that i'm just saying you know uh and i i don't know if it's if you think it's a similar situation with kyle now or not like what yeah listen uh we sat here yesterday the three of us sammy mckee will get you here uh justin bourne and one of the questions i threw at you guys uh he said on a

scale of one to ten uh this time tomorrow and we are now 24 hours are we going to have an answer and i think i think justin said yeah we will have an answer this is there's been plenty of time here to say to come out publicly and at least guide the leaf fans the season ticket holders the employees the players that uh what's going on here and yet here we are uh with nothing sam i how surprised are you that uh we are here 24 hours from asking that question and still in the same boat? Every minute that passes, I become more and more surprised that we haven't had any announcement on the future

of whatever's going to happen here with the Leafs. I do feel, though, that we're heading towards the long weekend here, Victoria Day in Toronto and Ontario, that, you know, there's a chance for a Friday news dump, of all Friday news dumps here to me, where they keep this quiet, and regardless of what they're going to announce, tomorrow at 5 p.m. to me is a really good time to,

you know, people are going away, there's less people working. Like, I do feel that we could be heading towards that tomorrow. That's my gut. You've sat in a general manager's chair and and talked with the pr department if sammy uh sammy's right on this then isn't it only uh lee lee does that not lead us to believe that it won't be positive news and that you do want to bury it at Friday at 5 p.m. because it's not going to be something great? That used to be kind of a strategy. And then when you, you know, I mean, I go back to when Harold Ballard

would try to usurp the Grey Cup in a different way, right? The Grey Cup was big and he tried to make a hockey story, right? So, you know, different strategies. or social media take care of that yeah yeah i don't think you know i mean like it's kind of like kawhi leonard when he went it it's not like they planned it what was it canada day or word in and around there was a holiday weekend i i so i i that hey hey you need honest answers and you need honest answers to your consumers, your ticket holders, your fans. And the fact is that if Kyle Dubas hadn't made that public, you know, we wouldn't be in on it. So behind the scenes, you'd be having a conversation.

The assumption is there's a contract offer out there, and he can think about what he wants to do, whatever. But, like, hey, you got a phone and someone's in charge who wants that job. Like, you know, this is his team. This is his team. This is his coach. He's doubled down and doubled down. It's a really great team.

It was a great team. Not a team with playoff success. We know that. And that's been the problem. Because, you know, when he, talk about pressure, when he got the keys, it wasn't a team to make the playoffs. It's a team that had made the playoffs. It was a team to get deeper in the playoffs. So you and Justin brought it up that is the pressure internally,

the fact that is there a rift between him and Brendan Shanahan? They don't sit together anymore. That doesn't mean there's a rift. I think actually where he sits now is a better place because he sits in kind of a GM's box with Brandon Pridham and Jason Spezza and Haley Wickenheiser and whomever. He used to kind of sit over where, where Brendan was and what have you. So I don't know. I don't, I don't know what it may be, but you know,

Hey, there there's, there's, someone's got to answer the phone. Stuff comes out out of the blue, right? We had that 27 minutes of the PK Subban trade and the the Taylor Hall trade and the Jason and the St stamkos of green going back to tampa bay right that all happened like in 27 minutes before july 1st and you know stuff's out there stuff happens so it's kind of like okay do we do we just wait i mean the longer that we go with no announcement the more would lead you to believe that there will be changes, there will be a separation between Dubas and Shanahan?

Well, just if I'm a boss of any place, okay, and you're having your druthers about either staying put or taking the job, then me, I just speak about any situation, I would then be, say, okay, you know what? Gord loving you. Why don't you let Kipper be in control right now? And you, you figure it out separately from needing somebody in the trenches or whatever, or, you know, just, that's what I think.

I will take him at his word that it's not a contract ploy. Cause I understand there's apparently a contract being offered. So I don't know. There's been enough reported that everybody is led to believe that there's been a contract waiting for Kyle. This is the guy that really got handed

the job almost on an accelerated level because apparently there had been an interview in Colorado with the Avalanche that Lou Lamorello, it wasn't the time for Lou to step down. Like one more year with Lou would have, like Kyle got saddled with doing all those contracts right out of the hop, you know, like all the big contracts. So I'm just saying in Lou's case, you weren't patient to bring Kyle in and now you're being

extremely patient. And I'm talking from an ownership or you know higher up management level so like the focus should be the team how do you go deeper in the playoffs what gives and now the focus from everybody from the takeaway from the stuff on whatever whatever day it was is does kyle dubas want the job or not not that he doesn't want it just kyle dubas does can he feel, is the pressure, the family situation too much that he doesn't want to continue the job at this time? That's the focus.

There should be a focus professionally about this team being where the Florida Panthers, Carolina Hurricanes, Dallas Stars, and Vegas Golden Knights are, and where they haven't been since, what, Pat Quinn's era. Sammy, where do you think this is going to head every minute, every hour, every day? We don't hear anything. I think you could make the argument both ways, that the longer we go without hearing anything, maybe they're sort of waiting for the public to cool down a little bit after yet another

playoff disappointment before announcing that maybe the head coach and the general manager are going to be back. I think you can look at it that way. But I think the reverse could also be possible too where they're, you know, they like we've talked about, you wrote about today in the Toronto Star, Kipper with an excellent article speculating that potentially that press conference changed the way

some of the people at MLSC think about him. And some of the board and Brandon Shanahan, maybe that changed things too. So maybe they're really mulling it over if they really want this guy. Like, I truly don't know which way I'm leaning here because it's a really weird situation to have gone this long.

There's enough from both sides. And yeah, if you get a chance, just go to my uh my twitter handle real at real kipper and uh i wrote an article on it today uh and basically the the gist of it is maybe both sides have to think twice moving forward and that there's regardless if he comes back or not gourd monday changed a lot of things. And there's no going back on that. And I would think that both sides have ample reason. What do you think the biggest thing that changed was?

The biggest thing that changed is that Kyle's in a place now where you'll be wondering whether or not moving forward, if he does come back, if something like what he's experienced could happen again. Yeah, well, as I said, you think, and again, I respect family first and foremost, and I respect his honesty, i respect um his priorities but you know you like you mentioned it this was a pretty good regular season this is a team that was in the playoffs as you said when we chatted november was playing tampa bay in december had home ice is against at advantage against tampa bay in january actually won a playoff round which

was huge after 19 years you can argue they got outplayed but they won a playoff round, which was huge after 19 years. You can argue they got outplayed, but they won the playoff round. And then the act that they pulled too often in the first round, they pulled the first three games of the second round. So we thought we'd said goodbye to that. So that, to me, is where that kind of pressure emanated. Internally, not having the contract,

feeling like a lame duck. Is he at odds with certain people the board brendan shannon i don't know i don't know if any of that's true it's a very dangerous game if you want to pull your wife and kids into the equation it's called brinksmanship if that's what you're doing that that that that's that's a game you better play right it's called brinksmanship if that is in fact what he's doing, if it were to be a, a kind of contract ploy about that, he says it's not.

And I'll take him at his word. I will too. And that's the first thing I thought of when the, the, the press conference happened on the Monday and then you wake up Tuesday and you're like, come on, he would never do that.

There's, there's just no way, you know, who did it is during COVID Jim jim rutherford and he regretted it two months later and that's why he got back on with vancouver like remember he left the you know the penguins paul maurice did it in the middle of season with the winnipeg jets you know like i i just so it's kind of like those guys were out of place and if you're at that place you probably should step away and follow through.

And there are other opportunities that will come up. But Jimmy's 70, 72? This is a 37-year-old man who's just basically starting. And he doesn't have Stanley Cups behind him. And he doesn't have the experience or the pedigree of a Jimmy Rutherford, how does he do that at age 37 and never won a game in the second round? Well, how you feel as a human being, and whether you want to call it mental health or family stress issues, doesn't matter what age you are or how many Stanley Cup rings you have.

I mean, I'm just using a comparable about guys that surprised everybody by I found those two very surprising about Rutherford and Pittsburgh and Paul Maurice and Winnipeg that in the middle of the season Jimmy regretted it yeah oh yeah yeah so two months later is there a chance Kyle could regret it big time today time tomorrow what um you know so went through, Alex Anthopoulos went through the process for a few months. He was actually considering going into media until he found out what we make. But anyway, then he, but, you know, so there was, I remember the genuineness he had with two young kids, all of a sudden this whole reevaluation process. So it doesn't change in one day, Kippy, does it?

Like when you're, when you're, you you know you put it out there like that i mean i anyway it's just kind of all of a sudden like like the toronto maple leafs are in a holding pattern right now is that you know from the outside looking and i'm sure business is going on as usual and also when you when you have a great management team and they have a great management team i I mean, stuff is getting done. People are getting, but you need a leader who makes the final decisions. See the one thing I was getting to today. Also how it doesn't change.

It changes everything is, is if he does come back Gord and let's say there is a press conference as early as tomorrow and they're together and, Gord, and let's say there is a press conference as early as tomorrow and they're together. And, you know, do you believe that the media or the fans or the city deserves some type of explanation? Or is it just good enough is that we had a few things that we needed to iron out and we have and now we're moving forward?

Or do you feel like people need more of an explanation? Well, you know, people can decide for themselves. I know if he comes back, what's going to be said. And it will be, you know, like, hey, after the 72 hours to clear our heads, we're good. We've decided we're moving forward. I'm fully in, both feet in and and that's that's what he'll say so whether that's 100 the truth or not that's what you're going to get so

now okay get to work and and uh do this planning on the ice i think he knows that and that's maybe you know where the where the pressure is about getting deeper in the playoffs and again we go back to let's see what happens not not just in game number 83 now. We're talking game number 88, 89, 90 now about next year, about having a more positive appearance, not in the first round, but the second round of the playoffs. So, I mean, I think you're saying the same thing. Even though it would be PR scripted to a degree, I will take him at his word and face value about things.

But it's just, it's a difficult spot to expect in two, three, four days there would be a complete enlightenment in that regard. But I will leave it to him and the others to figure that out. How about you, Sammy? Would you need more of an explanation? Like Monday he publicly says, I'm not ready to fully commit. And by Friday he is. And that will be the end of it?

I think that's a good question. I think he would probably take it upon himself to kind of explain himself, you'd think. Like, I don't know if I necessarily need that as a fan. I think a lot of fans can understand the scrutiny and the tough part of this job. And I'm sure we all understand that he feels like that for but to see it so publicly was a different thing completely so i think i don't think i need it from him but i bet he would explain himself and the thing that i mean not talking for now four days it's just allowed for this it's allowed for speculation

like you talk about it gordo i'm sure you get way more than i do but the number one question people like i've been all my leaf fan buds like what's going on with dubas what's like who's in charge like it's a big talking point amongst it's huge no it's absolutely huge and he's allowed time for speculation if he does sign it that i don't i will call it a seed of doubt that he planted on monday will will carry through the season next season with oh yeah no regardless of what he says regardless of what he says no matter how much they want to brush it under the carpet that will always be in the back of everyone's mind is what happened why why did you temporarily quit? Why didn't you commit saying, hey, I know my contract's up,

but I want to come back here. Sheldon did it. And he has another year on his deal, but he never wavered. I love the challenge. I want to be here. This is my team. Missed opportunity. Sheldon addressed what happened. There was a missed opportunity by how they played in the first three games.

I mean, really, that's kind of what we thought maybe Kyle Dubasyle dubas would say but you know like whether it's brendan or the board at this point you kind of you never want to talk someone into taking a job now you know see it's kind of like if i had no idea this and i was one of the parties which i take it there's three ownership parties including rogers right that i don't know how much how they work it or whatever but have to be in on decisions. And two out of three, I guess, have to, my understanding is, is have to be in agreement. But all of a sudden you're saying, well, wait a sec.

You know, we have this offer here, but if he's not sure about things, okay, then I'm not so sure about the offer. I don't know if any one of those parties is saying that or not, but I know that would not be something uncommon in business if you were getting that kind of feedback. Okay, well, I'm sure pick up that more on the Toronto Maple Leafs.

But in the meantime, as promised, Trip Tracy joins us, Carolina Hurricanes broadcaster and host of Digging In with Trip podcast. Trip, you're so lucky, man. You get to actually talk about games and playoffs and potentially winning a Stanley Cup. Way better than what we're dealing with up here. Yeah, Kemper, great to be with you and Gord today.

I did hear it's a beautiful, sunny day up there. But yeah, I certainly thank my lucky stars that shortly I'll be driving into the building here for the Eastern Conference final. And, you know, as long as we've known each other, you know, the big thing is, is that, you know, when I've seen my, you know, my dear friend who I've known since I was a teenager, Paul Maurice, yesterday and today, you know, back when he was coaching and Peter LaViella in the middle, when they want to stay on the cup, it was feast or famine. It was, there were some great playoff runs, but the, I mean, this has been unbelievable five consecutive years in the playoffs and all

really good, regular elite, regular season teams as it's moved on. It's, it certainly makes for a lot of enjoyment and, you know, with all due respect to broadcasting cakewalk broadcasting. Well, you mentioned it. One of the storylines is not on the ice, it's off the ice. Well, barely off the ice, behind the bench. Paul Maurice versus Rod Brindamore. Who's going to enjoy this more?

Wow, that's a great question. I would say, oh, man, I would say if you put a gun to my head, I would say Paul Maurice. You know, just because I remember talking to him when he was in parts unknown because he'd go fishing outside of Winnipeg in June of last year. And I really think because he had a daughter going to Miami, that the Florida job was going to be the only job that could really lure him out of the great outdoors

and for the team to have had the second half push. I think that he's going to get a ton of enjoyment. For Rod, I think it's a very interesting relationship because I'm sure you guys have spent just a ton of time talking about the Leafs. I think it's a very interesting relationship because, you know, I'm sure you guys have spent just a ton of time talking about the Leafs, and I remember the 2002 conference final, and what a great series that was. And Rod was assistant captain to Ron Francis, and then they beat Toronto in six and lost to that Hall of Fame-laden

Detroit team in the Stanley Cup final. Paul was the coach, Rod an assistant captain, and then, of course, Rod wins the cup as a captain with Peter LaViolette. Then after that, you know, circumstantially, Paul came back. They went to a conference final, caught Rod at the, you know, the latter stages of his career. There was a captaincy change. I can remember, like yesterday, Eric Stahl before a game in Atlanta

and the grace that Rod handled that transition. Unbelievable. And since Rod, Paul Maurice gave him his first start as a coach. You know, I think when Rod was trying to decide after hockey if he'd go into the managerial department or coaching, then I know when Rod became a head coach without experience for the first time, Paul reached out to, at the coaches convention surrounding the draft. So it's a, it's a, it's an amicable relationship,

but I think it's extremely competitive. And I'm, I know I'm sure Rod wants to win this series badly. So, so trip, you know, we're just talking about Toronto and it was great getting in the second round,

but more as expected last year, it was Colorado had to give, had a breakthrough, get beyond the second round they did that and won the stanley cup what was the kind of pressure on carolina i mean you want to go as deep as you can but this was this kind of the minimum acceptable uh say from the fans for starters to get to the final four oh hey gordon i i from the fans i would say first when Patch Ready goes down, but then when Svechnikov went down,

and I talk to our mutual dear friend Don Waddell about you all the time, and the Hurricanes, I thought were very – they had a plan going into the trade deadline that then got questioned. And when I say a plan, I think they targeted Timo Meier, and I think they made a really good offer. That's my own opinion. It's just my own speculation. But when that didn't go, if in fact that's true,

they didn't become reactionary. Because then I think you're dealing from a position of weakness, not strength. And what they did is they really assessed, in my view, a glaring need to make their team better. And that was a left shot to have three lefties and three righties in the back and a guy that could help the power play offensively, which I think there's still more there. But I think Goss' bear has been a terrific fit.

The fans, their expectation, even with the key guys that would decimate even great lineups and then Tara Vining going down, even though he'll be back tonight, he's missed a month. You know, you miss those top three guys. I didn't see the expectation go down with the fan base and that makes what they've done that much more impressive. I give, I give Donna just an abundance of credit because it was never feel sorry for yourselves.

There was a plan, an extremely impactful offseason with what Brent Burns has meant to this team, way exceeded expectations, and the expectations were high. But then the next man up mentality and still the consummate belief from Don and Rod, who I think has just had a marvelous coaching two rounds in the playoffs, that with their lineup, if they had everybody pulling on the rope, that they could still be very successful. And this is going to be their toughest opponent so far. Really a combination of the true assets of the Islanders and the Devils, but they have had that complete buy-in. I think that it's a really impressive thing because in this market where the pressure hasn't been there

like it is now until recently, even with those guys going down, that pressure stayed high and that pressure remains high that they expect them to beat this very, very good Florida team. Eastern Conference final gets underway tonight. Carolina and the Florida Panthers joining us now. Carolina Hurricanes broadcaster Trip Tracy. His podcast is called Digging In with Trip Podcast.

The name Freddie Anderson up here. People know it well. My producer Sammy knows it really well and i'm not sure he's too happy to see freddie's success but i am tell us about his playoffs so far i can't i would say okay so they're playing florida tonight who they played in game 82 where they need to be flor Florida to win the division. And, you know, the carrot of winning the Metropolitan Division, I thought, was especially incentivized this year. Freddie played that game, played two good periods,

and then it was a wild third period. They still won the game. So I'm looking at the following Tuesday, I think it was, was game one against the Islanders. And which way Rod would go. Now, Freddie ends up getting injured early in the series or an illness, the factor of the two. And so he wasn't truly an option. I think games two through when he started in six, but what I loved, if he was an option in game one, Nick, going with Ronta,

because Ronta had not lost at home since November and had earned the opening night's stars, first of all, based on merit, was the right call. But then secondly, gosh, I remember I was at a restaurant on a date in Miami back when Washington won the Cup. And in the first round, Barry Trotz, because Grubauer had earned it. He started with him. They go down 2-0.

They go on the road. They haven't won a game in the playoffs. I remember I was sitting there, and it was going to overtime, Hopi's first start. And I said to the woman I was with, I said, they win this game, they're winning the Stanley Cup. Now, did I know that was going to happen? No.

But I loved what the Hurricanes have done here, starting with Ronta, who has been excellent. And you would have faith in him because he's now healthy because he played really well in the season series against Florida. You hope it never happens because you hope Freddie owns the net. And what I like about the chronology was, I believe, not a very good goaltender, but as a goaltender, when you come in second, I think, not a very good goaltender, but as a goaltender, when you come in second,

I think it's less pressure. And so I think you're in more of a position to thrive and be the hero, if you will. And Freddie, that game six performance against the Islanders and then throughout the Devil Series, he had one hiccup as the rest of the team did in game three, but he made all the timely saves. He looked good doing it.

I just think that the way the hurricanes have worked chronologically their two goaltenders kipper so far in the playoffs has been marvelous and um you know so because i think it puts freddie in a position to mentally be right and when he's mentally right his mechanics are truly elite and he can go to toe-to-toe and emerge better than the top goaltenders in the league. And he's going to have to against Sergey Bobrovsky, the way that he's going. Did you have another date? Did you get a second one?

Long story short, she married my friend Adam Burrish, the Chicago Blackhawks. Yeah, that was the succession, Gord, that was the succession, as you and I were talking about the great show, Succession Offline. Yeah, that's hilarious. Well, it's a trip. Tracy's a great warm-up act, I got to say. Yeah, that's it for sure. Now, with the Carolina Hurricanes, and you mentioned Don Waddell,

and it's okay to be biased for friends who do an excellent job, and what I've liked and why we're talking about, whether it's Kyle Dubas up for friends who do an excellent job. And what I've liked and why we're talking about, whether it's Kyle Dubas up here about feeling he's got the pressure and all those things about doing the job moving forward, I've liked being unafraid to let Dougie Hamilton go, to trade Jeff Skinner for nothing. I mean, you do these things and people go, oh my God, you can't live without him.

Well, no, I got cap space. So when Brent Burns, when the Sharks are in a pinch, I can do that. At the trade deadline, I can always do whatever I want to do. I mean, it's exactly the way the cap should be used that you don't always need to be at the limit, that you've got to be unafraid when you made a decision, let them go, whatever they do with someone else,

it doesn't matter. I utterly and totally agree because I can remember it was before Rod had coached a game. You know, Don was, you know, his first time being general manager and president of the Hurricanes. He had been president, but first time being GM of the Hurricanes, albeit a true veteran. But they traded Skinner before Rod even coached a game. It was my belief. I'd love to see Jeff Skinner prove me wrong, but I have trouble believing that you can win 16 games in the playoffs with what I believe is lacking in the

two-way nature of his game. I'd love to see him prove me wrong. I felt the same way about Dougie Hamilton in crunch time. But, you know, they have a plan and their plan has been for me. They've had some targeted non-fools gold situations and free agency. Yes. Per Foss is a perfect example of that. But last summer, you know, they got it done.

They tried to sign Deanne, Tony D'Angelo. It didn't happen. And so then Don gets active and aggressive and targeted in the trade market. And I know it hasn't worked out because it just awful luck with regards to Max patch ready. But when I look at Brent Burns, okay, so you can't sign Tony D'Angelo.

The Hurricanes are not on Brent Burns' limited list. And Mike Greer is a first-time general manager. So if Don doesn't attack and get aggressive quickly, it doesn't happen. Then, furthermore, when you think about his experience that, Gord, you know even better than me, you know, he happened to have a relationship with Ron Seltzer, who's Brent's agent, going back, you know, maybe even to his time when he spent time as a Los Angeles King. So because of that relationship, he contacts Ron Seltzer.

Ron contacts Brent. Brent immediately says, I'd love to go to Carolina. So then it happens in short order. But if Don doesn't have all of those assets, I don't even – Brent probably gets traded because there were a lot of teams, maybe a couple that are still playing right now that were very desirable and wanted him. So I think that just really epitomizes really all the things that he's been

able to do because prior to Don here, there really wasn't an aggressive mindset in the general manager's position. And I think the Brent Burns acquisition and everything that went into it, and he has just been sensational. His play and the type of teammate he's been, the adversity that any team faces, the ups and downs of the playoffs. I mean, I can't even believe how much he's exceeded what my expectations were of him as a hurricane.

I mean, this is my 24th year, and he would rank in a short list of truly my favorite hurricanes. And that's a trade that if Don didn't have all those tools in his toolbox, I don't think there's any chance it would have happened because he needed all of them. I remember a few years ago covering a Board of governors meeting and and seeing the owner tom dundon and everybody's coming in suits and he's got the look of like i'm watching dora the explorer or the boyfriend diego with the backpack the backpack and uh i'm looking for boots and all the rest of the characters, I guess. And he's just a different guy, and we know that he's got a sense of business

that probably goes more with selling cars than it does professional sports and big contracts, and he just has this vision of how to spend money and you know i know you just talked about it but uh like he he goes from cheap to frugal or you know economically a sound guy when i look at that blue line and trip i'm looking at it and i'm going does anybody have a better blue line than carolina right now in the final four and not one guy's's making over $5.5 million. And I'm like, maybe Tom's got something going that the rest of the team should look at. You know what, Kipper? First of all, you make me think about

when they lost the guys up front. When I thought about how they could still navigate a course to go deep and challenge for the Stanley Cup, you know, they still had their blue line intact, and they had, I thought, very targetedly added Shane Goss to spare. to go deep and challenge for the Stanley Cup. You know, they still had their blue line intact, and they had, I thought, very targetedly added Shane Goss' spare. Their blue line had every capability to be the best two-way blue line in the National Hockey League, and so far it has been. It's the core and foundation of their team.

When I think about Tom, you know, because all of my years, and, I mean, Pete Carmanis, the longtime owner, gave me the job with no experience in 1998 when they were in Greensboro. So he took a chance on me that I will be forever grateful he's in the Hall of Fame. But after the salary cat came into play in 2005-2006, the Hurricanes, it was the massive exception to the rule that they were a cap team. And since Tom bought the team, they not only have been a cap team, but with the injuries that they've had, in terms of their actual payroll, I think Don would say it's somewhere in the low 90s this year. So it starts with that because that's a game changer. That makes your team better if you spend it wisely,

like you just mentioned, with the blue line i mean you have some drafted players i mean slavin and pesci go back to jimmy rutherford's time burns we talked about that acquisition chadfield the pro scouting department a player that they thought was just scratching the surface in the vancouver organization and then gordon having been the manager that you were i mean i think brady shade rod Brindamore would say it. He said it to me this year in one of our coaches' interviews that in all of his time here that he thinks the acquisition of Brady Shea is one of the finest traits in Carolina Hurricanes history. So it's a combination of things, and it's extremely impressive.

You're dead right. And the thing with Brady Shea is when you're a good-slash-great team, that first- round pick is 27 to 32 you know not what ottawa did when they got the san jose sharks fifth overall pick a couple years ago that's huge it's absolutely massive and then i think about and this is really a compliment to the market because i remember you know was at another dinner this time with my buddy Dean Chenault, who was running our blue line at the time and last couple of years in Toronto.

And, you know, the Hurricanes really could have used a righty at the time and Brady's lefty. And Don made that deal. He traded for Vincent Trocek right at that same trade deadline who gave Carolina a very significant contribution. So that was a really good deadline. But I remember hearing right after the trade from Chris Drury, who was assistant general manager of the Rangers at the time,

and he said he had a particularly close relationship with Brady, and he said, look out for him, will you? You know, he loved being a New York Ranger. This is going to be a real culture shock for him. And for Brady Shea, knowing how much he loved being a ranger knowing what a terrific hurricane he's been fits right into the great people that they have in this organization but now brady shea and i've talked candidly to him about it he is so he feels so fortunate that that trade happened and you know he loves playing for rod he loves

being a hurricane and And when I look at the growth of the franchise, going back to my first year broadcasting in Greensboro, coming from a, I mean, a premier organization like the New York Rangers for Brady Shea to say that, and he said it to me, and he's such a big, big piece of the puzzle of that blue line that you mentioned, Kipper. That's a heck of a compliment to where the Hurricanes were and where they're at now. Wish we had more time here, Tripp. Enjoy the playoffs.

Love to have you back on later on in the series. And just on a personal note, Tripp, I know that your road back to the broadcast booth has been well documented on the internet. I just want to say you sound great, and how much better our game is with you in it, man. Thank you so much. That means you've reached out before and consistently.

I'm a very, very grateful human. For me, on the personal level, I know you guys got to go, but Rod's my closest friend in the organization. I drank and missed a game in New York when they won the Metropolitan Division. I went into a meeting with Donnie Waddell, and I thought I might be fired. I certainly would have accepted being fired, and he put his arm around me and said that they were going to support me. The Carolina Hurricanes and the people mean more than I can explain in words, fired and he put his arm around me and and said that they were going to support me so the carolina

hurricanes and the people mean more than i can explain in words but the support of the hockey people the great hockey people that i have supreme respect for that i'm fortunate enough to call friends like the two of you guys that's unbelievably meaningful thank you oh sound great pal thanks for doing this enjoy the game man enjoy the, and we'll catch up soon. Trip Tracy. It's great. It's good you mentioned that. You know, Justin came public.

You know, these kind of situations. People are interested about that and also to hear the kind of support. And I think it's, I mean, Toronto Maple Leafs, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment are probably the top of the mountain with that, too. Okay, about that. It's nice that you have that nowadays, but just when he talks about rod brindamore and ton waddell and everybody else because uh he he's a fun guy he's a kick-ass broadcaster and it's nice to see

him uh jim montgomery you know could win coach of the year whatever but just to get that deserve second chance yeah and just rest assured anyone out there, there is support out there for you. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Sammy, you want to lead us with some playoff picks? Yeah, I will. I just love hearing that from Tripp, and I love him talking about Brent Burns. I love Brent Burns.

That trade is such a great trade by them, and I love watching Brent Burns. I'm rooting for them, kind of. Did you know he lived in Winnebago until his house was ready, right? Yeah. He came to Carolina, lived in Winnebago. I'm not that kind of guy. Yeah. Big supporter of the Dora the Explorer knapsack. Yeah, exactly.

He's just an interesting guy. I've always loved Redburn. All right. We do have some playoff picks for you. It's time for playoff picks presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. And still no hockey has been played, so nothing has changed. But there is hockey being played tonight.

So I cooked up a couple little same-game parlays for tonight's action. The first one is the Florida Panthers. If you think they're going to win tonight, you could take a Matthew Kachuk goal. He went the whole second round without a goal and at least still lost in five games, which is hard to believe. So you'd think that he's pretty due here for eventually get off the schneid. So if you take a Kachuk goal, Sergey Bobrovsky over 31.5 saves hard to believe so you'd think that he's pretty due here for eventually get off the schneid uh so if you take a kachuk goal sergey bobroski over 31 and a half saves and the panthers to win

pays eight to one which is a pretty good number and you figure if the cats are going to steal this game you'll need the studs to take over and bobroski and kachuk have been that for them the second thing i have is like same game parlay for the carolina hurricane hurricanes if you think they're gonna win sebastian ajo goal brent burns who i just mentioned over a point and uh over over sorry uh over a point and carolina wins pays plus 350 so that's an interesting one if you think the carolina hurricanes are going to prevail tonight and that was playoff picks presented by bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds so brent burns just has to get one point right not over one point okay yeah over a half you got

your kids play this kippy uh justin does parlays all the time yeah they watch the game a different way yeah and uh yes and yeah and i've been partial to do a little yeah let me ask you something if i would have told you before the Leafs series started against Florida that Matthew Kachuk wouldn't have a goal, I mean. We've talked about Leafs tonight. That's what I'd be thinking. Leafs Florida series, Matthew Kachuk has no goals. Put whatever bet number here, El Gordo has lost the house.

Okay? Because I would just say, because he was so dominant, those particularly three games against the Boston Bruins, and that's what even makes you, I don't want to say i don't get angry but yeah i guess more worked up whatever but yeah i thought we'd be talking like toronto playing carolina tonight okay we had carolina's angle uh after the break we'll bring in jeff chickren former nhler uh panthers tv analyst he's got uh he's got the florida panthers covered in this series, and we'll dig deeper into the Cats with Jeff Chikrin after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born

with my buddy Gord Stelic. Back after these words. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliott Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Still plenty to get into, including the Florida Panthers, who for the third straight round will be underdogs, which suits Matthew Kuchuk just fine.

Yeah. You know, just, again, I know we got Jeff Chickerton coming up, but I'm, you know, this is the whole thing got jeff chickerton coming up but i'm you know the this is the whole thing about getting hot at the right time right you know which the leafs used to do against the ottawa senators now it's been done to the leafs unfortunately but the leafs used to get hot in the playoffs and knock off the ottawa senators a better regular season team and we're talking about good ottawa teams yes should have won a stanley cup one of those ones that they one of those ones should have won a Stanley Cup.

Great Ottawa Senator teams really, but getting hot at the right time. And Patrick Laleem couldn't get hot at the right time. Yeah, no, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

He couldn't. And I gotta tell you another one is I like Jacques Martin a lot, but they took the personality of their coach, which was kind of monotone dead ass. And you had Pat Quinn, a little bit of fieriness, right? Tell us how you really feel. And you had Pat Quinn, a little bit of fieriness, right? Tell us how you really feel, deadass.

Yeah, well, okay. How can I say I like him? But his post-game press stuff was a bit that way. You know, kind of go, I remember once Eugene Melnick was going nuts at the door or something like that, and Brian Murray had to calm him down, the general manager. But yeah, but Ottawa kind of, and that's what I don't like about the Leafs a little bit, about, oh, we lost again.

It's part of the process. The Leafs back then played the part of the Florida Panthers with Roberts and... Well, Darcy Tucker. Shane Corson annihilated Alexey Yashin one time. Four-game sweep. You know, Yashin was big on their team. Exactly that kind of stuff.

All right, as promised, let's welcome in Jeff Chikrin, former NHLer, currently covers the Florida Panthers as an analyst. Chick, thanks for joining us, man. How are you? Hey, thanks for having me. I got to tell you, Gord, I was on my way to the Fort Lauderdale Airport this morning, and you were working already. Now you're grinding it out with Nicky tonight, and that's a a long shift i know how nikki goes it's gonna be like this series

it's a grind okay we know how important role players are this time of year we sure do is that ever evident god you're not kidding jordan martin he's uh almost leading caroline in scoring right now. I wouldn't have expected that. No, but that's what this time of the year is all about. And for the third consecutive series, the Florida Panthers will happily play underdog, correct? Yeah. You know, I think it's funny, interesting.

Listen to Paul Maurice the other day. And he was talking, you know, I really, I think we touched on this last time I was on, interesting. Listen to Paul Maurice the other day. And he was talking, you know, I really, I think we touched on this last time I was on, Nick, how I feel like this has been building for a couple of years. You know, they were an offensive juggernaut under Quenville and then under Andrew Burnett last season. Really, so many times they'd have these huge periods to sort of outscore any of their problems.

And this year, a completely different mindset, really trying to play that defensive style of hockey without taking away the offense, but just being comfortable in a 2-1 hockey game. And, you know, there was a long stretch this year where 60 minutes was a tough thing. Playing a full game was a tough thing and it was ugly some nights. And I don't know,

Paul Maurice made the funny comment the other day, how, yeah. And there was a lot of times in December, January, right. Came on and the media was getting tired of me saying, yeah,

there's a lot of parts to our game that I really liked tonight. And it just was, and there was a lot of ugliness to it, but you know, I think that was his message. Just be consistent in your approach. And hopefully at some point it's all going to sort of come together. And I think what we found the first two series is defensively they played really well.

But they've been scoring when they needed it too. So, Jeff, I appreciate you listening so much. Don't forget tonight I have a soft music candlelight and wine show, okay, if you want to set the right mood for that special somebody, okay? I appreciate that. My wife's at home by herself tonight there, Gord, so maybe I better not. You better pass on that one today. Okay, okay.

I'll leave that one alone. You know, so the Florida Panthers, here's what gets me, Jeff, is that I'm going back to where I thought in September. So look at statistics in September. President's Trophy winners last year. See, the playoffs just clouds everything when you lose four to Tampa. Best team in the regular season. Add best addition to a new team, Matthew Kutuk.

Shake, stir, what do you get? You get the team we didn't see for 80 games, but we've seen for 81, 82, and in the playoffs. Like, isn't this kind of the team? I'm like rethinking it. I kept thinking, man, they can't seize the opportunity during the regular season.

And then all of a sudden, poof, this is exactly what they should be. Matthew wasn't the problem all year. He was great all year. He was productive. He was a Matthew Kachuk, probably as advertised, and maybe then some.

It was the rest of the of the gang that there was there was a big transition period I think that's the way it seems to have played out anyway you know Mo was so consistent in talking about from day one I remember the training camp in September well we're doing an awful lot of work three feet from the boards you know we want to play be that hard we he talked about when the pace game goes away in the playoffs and we want to be comfortable playing those one nothing two to one hockey games and and i remember you know what my son was a game is either game one or two in toronto watching the leafs and panthers and he said boy the panthers are in trouble they're down to nothing i said yeah but watch how comfortable they're going to be now.

And sure enough, they made it 2-1, and they went on to win that hockey game. And just, you know, it's almost like Tom predicted, you know. Obviously, you can't predict how you're going to be, but this is, in my opinion, what he was hoping for when he took over. Get the team to work hard, get them to play well on the defensive side of the puck. And yet he never wanted to slow them down offensively because you sort of have that DNA that's built into it. And there was times he struggled,

even though analytically they kept telling us how strong their power play was or how strong they were five-on-five potential scoring. When we come together in the playoff timing's good we're teeing up the eastern conference final between carolina and the florida panthers joining us now is jeff chikrin uh panther tv analyst you know chick one of the the first narratives of of the toronto florida series was Bobrovsky. You can't trust him.

And here we are now going into the Eastern Conference Final, and where is the narrative on Bobrovsky? Has it subsided, or are there people still feeling like midnight's going to strike and Cinderella is done? I love the narrative from me and Toronto. It's great. No, I think, I think, I think where we, where we sit in, in Florida right now, I was in the room the other day and everything looks pretty comfortable.

Nebraska. In fact, I had coffee with Ron Hexdahl last week in Boca, just sort of going back to his time in Philly and just the great work ethic that this guy possesses. And listen, goalies get hot, they get cold, they play better sometimes. It hasn't been pretty in Florida, obviously, for the first three years. But when Maurice put him back in the net,

I'm not sure whether it was game three or four against Boston, he said it's time for Bob to take, take over. And he's been nothing short of, of really stellar in my opinion, since that time. And I, I don't know.

I think people are pretty comfortable with him right now because he's put together a stretch of, I don't know, almost 10 games now where he's played really solid hockey. So I don't think anybody's expecting the other shoe to fall at any time right now I think they're certainly hoping not he looks comfortable he goes about his business extremely consistently you know you go see him in practice he does the same things every day just working on his game so I'm hopeful Nicky like I love the way

they were really fortunate to have alex lyon start actually go in and take over for him in toronto that night too and uh just really carry the mail well but uh no i hope not i hope it stays i hope this game stays exactly where it is so jeff a little bit of a pivot here in that um i was just chatting earlier we talked about the san jose sharks and you know doug wilson didn't um didn't put a lottery protected first round pick in the carlson trade so they got the fifth overall pick ottawa did of san jose a couple years ago and i just know when you guys were struggling early this season that first round pick to montreal for ben charotte i mean it was in the conor bedard lottery range i I mean, just, you know, like an added little,

I know the players don't think about it when they're on the ice every time, but you remember years ago when that first round Leaf pick could be Eric Lindros. Remember that? And it just dominated the whole season in Toronto. Oh, my God, that could be the pick. I mean, it could have been a real disaster. Yeah, no doubt.

And listen, in my opinion, since Bill Zito's gotten here, he's brought in so many players. It seems like everything he's touched has been really, really golden. And so I guess, you know, at that time, you're looking at a club that's about to win the President's Trophy. I don't think you're really predicting that a year, the next year, you're going to struggle maybe as much as they did obviously in the first five six games now you did i'm sorry four or five months of the season so i think that was probably in their mind pretty safe bet well you see how the way things can turn right in the in a 32 team league uh you just never quite know right so but fortunately they snuck in the playoffs they did enough the last three months of the year to get themselves there. And by good luck or good fortune or good work ethic, they had a two-goalie tandem that got them to where they needed to be. And they caught fire, played really well when they needed to,

these first two rounds. So that didn't come to fruition. The lottery pick. But I see what you have. You know, you have to be excited when you actually live in a market or play in a way the GM feels confident enough to sort of go all in. You know, it's something that everybody – I heard – I was listening to Kenny Holland's presser the other day,

and he said, you know, when are you going to trade a first- he, he, how, when are you going to trade a first round pick? He says, well, I sent two for Ekholm because it's finally time. Well, it's really nice to be in a market where the general manager considers it prudent to take a chance like that. You know, Chick, you spent your hockey career as a defenseman. When you watch two guys in particular, Mark Stahl and Radis Gudis play, there's some nights I go, I don't know the game that well because I thought these guys were done.

And they were unbelievable against the Leafs. Just in the right place at the right time, taking away time and space, and then Gudis every once in a while plastering a leaf. I mean, how surprised are you that they're squeezing every ounce out of these guys? Right. I've really liked Radko's game from the time he's been.

I don't know if this is his third year now. So I've really liked the way he's always played that, you know, lunch pail style. And like you said, Nicky, with the intent at times to really light someone up and really keep their head up. Mark Stahl, probably, you know, a little bit more of a struggle early in the year, sort of finding his legs and sort of finding that fit on this club. But again, from day one, Palmer East being consistent,

him and Brandon Montour played together just about every step of the way. And yeah, you know, Nicky, I think experience, right? It slows things down for you. And even in this, and particularly in the playoffs

where it is grind, where it's not quite clutch and grab, but you just really have to be that steadying influence and really make the play, chip pucks up the people, and just maybe be that fourth guy on the rush. You don't have to lead it, but just do things simply from the back end. There's enough scoring on this roster, either on the back end with Montour, Forsling, Ekblad, or, you know,

they seem to be getting production from all four lines right now. Playing that simple game is probably easy, almost easier for those guys at this time of the year than it is in December. So you've got to present the Kahn-Smythe Trophy after two rounds to a Florida Panther. Is it Bobrovsky? Is it Kachuk? Is it Verhage? Who gets, who does Jeff Checker and present it to? I think you have to throw Sam Bennett's name in that conversation. Yeah. He's been, he's been really, really darn good. You know,

the one guy look at, I guess, I guess if you have to name it, I think Brofsky at this point because of you know i guess being the playing that underdog uh that underdog role for as many as long as they have the past two series that he's the one to get it um but again matthew kachuk's really carried this club all year and and uh i know I did the playoff trophy, so I'd have to go with Sergei Bobrovsky, and my 1A would be Matthew Kachuk. Well, it's going to be a real interesting series here.

You're watching Paul Maurice and Brenda Moore. That alone's a good storyline. Chick, thanks for doing this, man. Enjoy the start of the series. Hey, thanks, guys. Great talking to you, and enjoy as well. That is Jeff Chickren, former National Hockey League defenseman, and does a great job on the Florida Panthers broadcast.

He absolutely does. And so, you know, you've got all these storylines. You've got Paul Maurice coached Carolina for so long. On the other side, you've got Pete DeBoer. He really wants to beat Vegas. Vegas has an assistant coach named John Stevens who kind of got embarrassed by Rick Bonas, right? Another teammate of mine.

Okay, but, you know, when, like, Rick Bonas took over from Jim Montgomery and he inherited Montgomery's assistance in Dallas, and he really didn't want him. And you remember the next year, he did an eight-second presser, said, we know what the problem is. And they moved John Stevens right from behind the like man so he wants that so you got that angle as well and then you

got three stall brothers playing in this particular series another little I was thinking about because we take about Sam Bennett Sam Reinhardt do you remember the heady days the future the Buffalo Sabres Jack Eichel Sam Reinhardt a tandem bicycle built for two they rode into training camp.

Everything was hunky-dory. And then it wasn't, right? Everything was beautiful with the Sabres. Now, to Buffalo's credit, you know, they've bounced back in a big way. But here you got them on different teams. Jack Eichel now being where the Sabres maybe thought they were with the Vegas Golden Knights. And Sam Reinhardt being the other Sam on that Florida Panther team. Just how things change, right? I'm a big Sam Reinhardt being the other Sam on that Florida Panther team. Just how things change, right?

I'm a big Sam Reinhardt, Sam Bennett. Those two guys are real. They're real hockey players this time of year. They are exactly what your team needs. Well, Calgary Plains had Sam Bennett and Matthew Kachuk. You know, again, I know reasons guys go, but all of a sudden you look in the playoffs man those are the kind of guys who even couldn't get a first rounder for sam bennett wow you think about that he's an impactful guy and i begged the leafs on this show not this show not this show i think it

was before this show yeah but you can't pick my real kipper at noon show i think that's how far back it was well oh well that's how far back yeah you're right sam yeah wasn't it nick robertson he wanted him to trade for him yeah hey one more question on uh on florida in particular gudas uh a lot was made out of that that, Sam, right? Of Gutis' eyes and face staring down Joseph Wall. Who claimed he didn't really notice it. Was that a big deal to you? Did it make more noise with Lee fans, Sammy? I think people pretty widespread hated Radko Gutis to begin with.

I don't think that was like, oh, he was such a great guy leading up to that. I think I hate him now. Everyone hated his guts. Everyone hated his guts anyway. I think he was probably, outside of Sam Bennett, public enemy number one for a lot of Leaf fans. He's not a very popular guy. So I said it the day after.

I didn't mind it. It's the heat of the moment. You're really excited you won the game. They lost. I don't know. I didn't mind it. It's the heat of the moment. You're really excited you won the game. They lost. I don't know. I didn't mind it at all. Well, a lot of other people, because officiating quickly comes to mind, felt. Now, first it was Cali Yarncroke that got caught and was playing D.

So he kind of stumbled, but people feel Gutis gave him a shove. That a penalty could have been called on that play. Do you think so? I don't think it really made much noise on how blatant it was until Saturday or Sunday. I think Yarncroke was falling anyway. He was scrambling because they were caught up there, you know. But after that, like, you know, good. Like, how often is he going to be up there celebrating? You know, that's good hustle getting up there.

So I don't mind that kind of raw emotion i i still hate the bite who wasn't saluted yager danny markov yeah daniel mark yeah that mark that's a great one right i love that stuff after gary volks overtime winner you know the salute the smart ass salute to him going the other way i i love that kind of stuff the uh the closest answer the Leafs had to Gutis was Luke Shen. Did he play great or what? Brought the best out of Morgan Riley. Like, you know, so it's funny. Our son, Justin, first game he went to, he goes,

wait, this doesn't go to a lot of games. Don't get me wrong. I don't spoil the kid. But he just says, I really like Luke Shen, but he doesn't skate very well, right? There's kind of like, And so then you watch, and he's understood how to adapt, not being a premier skater. He plays real smart.

He played real physical. He brought the best out of Morgan Rielly. This is a guy that you have to try, and the character kind of guy he is. Because when you were talking about the Florida D, he provided that. And poised, too. Sometimes you can slow things down for your pace and he was able to do that take an extra step and then make a great first pass didn't get always smart one step ahead of and I still think now granted I can see why he wasn't

on at the end of the game but you know could Chuck taken liberties with Mitch and then McKay being down and two guys pound you know those are those are little things that, oh, okay. That's, you know, like, I don't even, Joel Wall could have come out and I don't know, whatever. Just something, you know, it's kind of like, okay, Toronto wins the game, but Florida kind of delivers a little bit of a message at the 60th minute. Part of my article today I wrote, it was-

How big is this article? It's a good one. Okay. I'll show it to you after the break. Okay. I read them normally. Yeah. Good. I do. it to you after the break. I read them normally. I do. Oh, and honestly, I do. Toronto Star, right?

I wrote today that the Leafs have made it abundantly clear they want Luke Shen back. I just don't know if they're going to be able to afford him. Who wants him back? What's that? Who wants him back? Who wants? Yeah, like the Leafs, who?

Yeah. General manager? Very good. See? I think there was a coach that was involved in an exit meeting. Okay. Yeah. But he's still here too, though.

I don't know. Luke's agent calls. I'm sorry. We're out of the GM's office right now. We will be back in two. Gudis is still playing at 2.5 million last year right you think that's kind of a fair number for luke well again we keep getting used to the hometown discount that jason spencer took and marchi ordano tech and whatever so i don't know

what the number is he's not making 750 i can tell you that what if that's the number to me because he did it here okay okay, then yes. Also, what's Gustafson? I don't know what all these guys are. What's Lillinger? But they're just when, part of when you had so many new pieces to find out, okay, what's the units going forward in the future and whatever. But to answer your question, yeah.

Luke Shen has basically taken the minimum the last eight years with eight different teams, basically. You know, is, yeah, that's the number. I'm fine with that number. Okay. Yeah, that seems to be a number that a few are throwing around. Sorry, Kipper and I do not have any clout. Okay, we're going to take a quick break,

and we're going to bring back Darren Pang, former NHL goalie as well, and doing a terrific job for TNT. And a guy that, Sammy, if I stand corrected, just prior to the trade deadline, was all over Ryan O'Reilly and Achari. He was. To the Toronto Maple Leafs. Almost like he... Like he knew. Like he might have known. Yes. He sat in that chair overilly and Achari. He was. To the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Almost like he. Like he knew. Like he might have known. Yes. He sat in that chair over there and said something. Yes. We'll find out how much he knew after the break. Nick Kiprios.

Gord Stelik. Real Kipper and born. In-depth Blue Jays coverage with an analytical twist. Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Darren Pang said to join us, former NHL goalie, hockey analyst, TNT.

Is he working tonight? What series does he have? I don't know. Maybe he's been named the president of a hockey team, too. You know, they're going after those broadcasters now. Panger, how close were you to beating out Keith Jones in Philadelphia? Well, like really close. They want except they wanted a guy that that played longer in the NHL,

that had more hair with the potential to go gray. And they wanted a guy that played in five overtimes and didn't get a shot on goal, which was Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. And so that's why they picked Jonesy. So he met up all the prerequisites. He passed them all. So Tockett's gone during the year. Jonesy. I think Jonesy's still doing the games.

Yeah, he's going to do the final. He's going to do the final. He's going to do the final. How is he going to do a final? He's the president of the Philadelphia Flyers. You know what? He's actually doing the Eastern Conference final starts tonight. He's going to fulfill his contract, he said to me, and he's going to do them. I was in the bullpen. The right-hander was ready to come in. But you know what? But

Jonesy, I said to Jonesy, you're already making enough for Schnaigle being the president. Do you really need more? But he's ready to go. Well, good for him. You know, in all sincerity sincerity what a phenomenal guy have you ever heard an outreach of of one guy getting a job like that where there's no animosity there's no bickering in the background there's no uh he can't do it it's all you know what jonesy can do it he'll be just fine i just love that guy i got a lot of respect for for keith jones and and he's so fun to work with you know this, the part that I'm going to miss

is that I have done several games with him, including Winter Classics tonight. I just love being around the guy. So he'll be greatly missed on the TV side for sure. And just from a selfish point of view, in hockey in general, we need the Flyers going here. We need the Flyers to be the Flyers in our league.

Yeah, we do. I would wholeheartedly agree with you. I mean, I was thinking back, maybe just getting old, but I was thinking back to big games that I've done in my career as a broadcaster and I was thinking back to like, you know, I did that game

seven game with Steve Levy when Eric Lindros tried to dance through four guys and got drilled, you know, by Scott Stevens. Game seven, Philadelphia. Going to the rink, getting ready for a game in Philly was just so, it was not, you knew you were on a big stage and you knew that even as a broadcaster, you had to be ready to go because they are,

they're so demanding of you as an analyst. They're demanding of themselves. They're demanding of their players. And so, yeah, to get them back on board is absolutely essential for the NHL. I don't think it's in the near future. I think they've got a hell of a road to climb, but I think this puts them in a pretty good spot to start it off anyway. So with the playoffs, well, Rod Brindamore is great in his own way,

but you've got three other coaches. I mean, look at the history, been around, you know, the winning. I mean, Peter DeBoer, fourth team he's taken to the Final Four, and all very media savvy, which is good for you guys and good for the viewers and listeners like us. Really good. media savvy which which is uh good for you guys and good for the viewers and listeners like us really good and hey kipper i know i know you're you're there with one of the all-time best right there but he made me your vision a long time ago yeah yeah i i might have i might have to rename you you uh you might need a vision after your last name now with all the shows you're doing. Holy jumping.

But moving, it's called Stelic Vision. Well, it might. So anyway, just to say Darren Pang sitting alone there, Leafs are playing Chicago in the playoffs in 1994, where Maple Leaf Gardens doing the big show in the afternoons. And Darren Pang a couple of times comes up in an empty press box and whatever. And that's what we created, Panger Vision. And that we did a, like Darren Pang a couple times comes up in an empty press box and whatever, and that's what we created, Pangervision, and that we did

a musical entry for it, and here we are these years later. It's made zero, but it just sounds big. Pangervision. I like it, and I like doing Stellic Vision as well. Thank you. Me too. I love it as well, and so I didn't want to step

back on you on the coaches because it is important um in our you know in our business as you guys well know to walk into a whether it's a little private meeting on the side or just listening to them or maybe doing a interview during the game is that you know to have guys that have been around that have experience but also have great personalities and i can tell you firsthand i you know, I did a large part of that Toronto and Florida series. And, you know, Paul Maurice is an exceptional person, and he's got a flair for the TV side, and he knows how to answer a question.

Even if your question's bad, he knows how to come back around and make you feel good about it. And, you know, Pete, I mean, Bruce Cassidy, heck, I've played on five different teams with Bruce Cassidy in my career, and we've won two championships together. I love that guy. And I always thought he'd be great in TV, to be honest with you. And years ago when he was in the East Coast League,

I told him, you want to get away from this business and get into TV? I think I can get you in. And it's worked out for Bruce Cassidy. And obviously Rod Brindamore, an exceptional human being and a well-rounded coach, a successful coach. So someone's going to win, and it's going to be a heck of a ride. I'm looking forward to this Final Four. I know there's a lot of naysayers out there because it's not a big market.

But heck, that's what you go to camp for. You put a picture of a Stanley Cup in that locker room, and your dream is to win the Stanley Cup no matter where you're playing. I'm pretty excited for these four teams. We're talking to hockey analyst of TNT, Darren Pang. So one of the four is going to lift the Stanley Cup for the very first time as a head coach. We know Rod Brendamore's history as a player, but pick one.

The best story for you, first time head coach winning it is it is it cassidy you know i mean yeah i mean i mean for me that's a personal thing you know i mean to see bruce cassidy and probably all year long too kipper you know and rightfully so wefully so. We talked an awful lot about Jimmy Montgomery and the Boston Bruins. And, you know, there's Bruce Cassidy that had 105 points last year. He's taken them very far. He's advanced this group of young players. I know he was tough on them. There's no denying that.

But that's what hockey is all about. And they're now well-rounded people and they're well-rounded players. And so, you know, I'd be thrilled. what hockey is all about. And, and, and they're, they're now well-rounded people and they're well-rounded players. And, and so, you know, I, I'd be through obviously Bruce Cassidy won the Stanley Cup. I'd be, I'd be just thrilled for him. And that's very personal. That's not, you know, that's not the Vegas golden Knights or what were players that I know on that team. But the other guy is, you know, it's Paul Maurice. I mean, he's,

he's always treated us extremely well. Not that the other guys haven't, but he's, he's done things pretty well and he was going to retire. I mean, he wasn't coming back. He was fishing and, and the, you know, the right call came his way. The team was underachieving all year long and, and now they're the dragon slayers. So that would also be an incredible story for a guy that started his career at the age of 26 and is still in the game you know coaching I think that's a remarkable story for me so Panger let's talk about the position you played and uh every team's used more than one goaltender which you know decades ago would not be the case it's not goaltenders do is a Mike just don't seem to steal series anymore it's I is it because all the goaltenders are so great i mean what is it that

now now you just need good enough goaltending to give you a chance to win is that fair to say man when i was playing in the late 80s mike keen would have used six goalies by now that's right dr hook you know i oh my goodness goodness. I still remember I retired that year, but we made some trades. We had Jock Clucci. We had Greg Millen in Chicago. We had Eddie Belfory. I think you might have had Fox. I can't remember.

But then you got Greg Millen got pulled, and he's going up and down the bench with a towel. Oh, my goodness. But getting back to this year, the fact is it's a difficult position. But we don't have the goalies that we had in the late 80s and 90s. We have good goalies, but how many elite goalies do we have in the league now like how many really elite goalies do we have and and i think going side to side laterally post to post is very difficult on these guys and i think that the athleticism

has to be such at such a high rate to be able to keep up with the pace of the chances, the dot-to-dot passes on two-on-one breaks. It used to be the goalie had the shooter, the defenseman had the pass backdoor. Now the percentages and the analytics and the fact that these players try so many different moves in practice, whereas we got frustrated back in our era and through Stixit guys, if they tried that kind of hot dog and stuff, well, now that's just hockey.

And it's really difficult to stop. So you're seeing a lot of grade A plus chances. And I don't believe that defending is as good as it probably should be. So now you're getting all world chances on one timers, dot to dot, no chance for the goalie and and and you lose a little bit of your mojo in that net and and so it's been hard to steal it i always felt like in this era it was hard for a goalie to steal a game against or a

series against colorado you're going to get pulled in a couple of games just because the difficulty and chances that they present to you and and you just you're fatigued and so you might get pulled in a couple of games just because the difficulty and chances that they present to you and and you just you're fatigued and so you might get pulled in one game and then have to come back and win three two in another another game go back the next game and get maybe pulled again but you know eventually you got to win four games and you know Tampa Bay gave teams fits like that um now you know I mean we're we're're seeing that the mental fortitude, or I guess you could describe it, of the goaltenders isn't quite there for a long period of time.

And I just have to think that it's the difficulty in the chances against, but it also is the lack of the high-end goaltenders. And I don't have to tell you guys. I mean, I just mentioned Anira, Hasek, Belfort, Brodeur, Waugh. I mean, you can go on and on. I mean, that's, you know, you, every goal you face in the playoffs, even Javi Boulin, uh, Kolzig, I mean, Curtis Joseph, like it, you know, the list grant here. So I, I think there's a, a watered down product in the net right now panger i blame the reverse vh and there's two goals the two goals this like past week and you covered toronto and florida it was willie kneelanders short side goal

that uh that uh pushed the game into overtime where bobrov has been great, but he scored off like three feet off the goal line. And then White, Johnston, Dallas on Grubauer with a back hand that ended their season. You're not going to get a disagreement here. I've tried to understand it.

I've tried and understand it I've tried I've tried and tried and tried but I just feel that there's no reason hockey sense wise for a goaltender to go down and put yourself in that position

no matter what size you are when a guy has an opportunity to score from the sharp angle. And I really don't like hearing that. It's a great shot. You know, And Sammy disappears, panger disappears and our producer,

Sammy disappears. So we'll try to get panger back. Right. And try to get Sammy back. Is Sammy thinking, rethinking his job? What he doing anyway he's going to talk it over yeah all right well we may get him back we may not have him here i think derrick might have him here i don't know i'll see what he did he did agree with me and i'm i'm with him i They want to play the percentages. That's all. Yeah. And I don't know.

I mean, is that a good position? I know there's sometimes you do play the percentages. We all play the percentages. We shoot short side if we can. If we. TNT really should fly them, don't you think? So he's going through Indiana? Do they not have phones in Indiana, Darren?

Everything okay? I got to tell you something. I am going through Indiana right now, and the cornfields are surrounding me. I'm driving to my little lake house in Michigan, and I'm sure there's a cell service somewhere around here. I can see it with tractors and stuff. So I apologize for that. Stand up on your car roof.

I stand up and don't go down in the reverse. You know, when a left-hand shot has the capability of stepping out a little bit or a great shooter with the skates on the goal line can still pick the top corner of the net. And so that is very frustrating to me as well. And I get more texts during the course of a game from NHL players saying, ugh, you know, that's not a great shot.

It's a terrible goal against. And I should take a screenshot next time of the amount of people that send me a text and i guess like i i didn't do the reverse vh i couldn't even begin to explain it so um i'm probably the wrong guy to talk about it but all i know is a bad goal is a bad goal but the other part kippy or excuse me darren about goaltenders you've always talked about the speed of the game the speed of the game which game. And so if you're a goaltender now, are you not expecting a guy coming at you 100 miles an hour, crossing, passing the puck 100 miles an hour to someone who fires it at you 150 miles an hour? I mean, that's almost part of the job now, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. But it's still hard to pick that puck up off these sticks. I mean, you know, you think back to, Gord, of the 2005 lockout. There was a lot of rule changes implemented there. But one of the things that we don't talk about was the increase in the curve. You know, so you're taking these shots, heel-to-toe saucer passes, and they're coming off like a trampoline effect on those blades. And it is probably really hard for these goalies just to pick them up.

But the other part of it is, as bad as the reverse VH goals against that can be frustrating is, how poorly are two-on-ones being played? Like how many times do you see a defenseman slide into a great passer? The one thing that you have to still have is hockey sense as a player. If a guy's a passer, if it's Adam Oates, why would you go to war to Adam Oates? You know he's going to find a way to pass that puck perfectly to Brett Hull, and Brett Hull's going to one time and you've got no chance whatsoever.

So I think there's just some technical things in our league right now that aren't maybe where they've been in the past, the structural part of the game, playing a two-on-one break. And, you know, I don't know. That part of it as well is a little bit frustrating because the goalie's got zero chance on the backdoor one-time play because maybe the defenseman prematurely goes over on a bad slide and makes for an easy pass.

Okay, I'm going to end this segment on some panger vision, give you full credit. A week before the trade deadline, you were pumping up Ryan O'Reilly and Nola Chari. Tell us how great they were. You've had inside information, and you take your game to another level. You could have given us the best scoop of the year,

but you just kind of threw it out. But watching the series, covering the series for the Leafs in the first two rounds, what's your overall take of where the Leafs fell short? That's a really good question because i you know being around the team for the first time in a long time um i mean it was 2004 that steve levy and i did their last series win and i never did a playoff series in between 2004 and 2023 um but so you don't get a chance to be around the players like I finally did in the series against

Tampa Bay and then the series against the Florida Panthers and I loved what the new players brought to the table they brought a hot stove element they brought like guys that hung out in the locker room and wanted to you know just wanted to talk hockey with you Luke Shen and Ryan O'Reilly are the two most obvious answers but they were always ready around with you, always available. I think they tried their – I do think they tried real hard, every single one of these guys. What was the downfall? You know what?

The downfall to me was I didn't think they played that well in the Tampa series, and maybe that fooled them a little bit. I'm not sure. But they didn't seem to come into that series and push the envelope against Florida when I thought that they could have taken advantage of the best line for the Florida Panthers is the Bennett line. But yet, could Chuck look like he was battling something in that?

He didn't look like the same self that he had in the seven-game series against the Boston Bruins. Bennett, obviously, is a thorn because he hit really hard, and he had some injuries, and he did some things, but he played hard. But I thought the better players of the Toronto Maple Leafs should have taken advantage of the fact that that top line in particular wasn't as good as they should have been. And that's what disappointed me, is that the top guys couldn't break on through to the other side,

as Jim Morrison and the Doors once said. And I fully expected them to in any given day. I was like, okay, here comes Austin Matthews. Okay, here comes on a rush. Here comes on a chance. Okay. And then as the game went on and it got harder, there's fewer rush chances and he was less effective.

So I think that was the disappointing part to me not just austin matthews but i think they're they're the core four for sure uh weren't difference makers like they should have been uh so panger when i saw you last maybe at scotia bank arena josh levo was trying you were trying to find out when you played with his dad did you ever find that out josh levo felt his dad played hockey with you at some time yeah no we couldn't find we couldn't track the years didn't fit they didn't fit they weren't they weren't in line so um i love josh he has no hair like me but we we couldn't get that aligned see just the aura being a round panger makes people think they played with them when they never actually did you know that that well that might be it it in fact bill zito i found out that bill zito the

general manager of florida uh was a bat boy for the for the brewers and uh and and he also skated with us with the milwaukee admirals in 1984 from 82 to 84 85 he'd always come back and skate and be a stick boy i found out a lot during this playoff run. All right, Banger. One quick one here. Florida, Carolina. Who's going to the final? I'm staying with the underdog. I'm going to stay with the hot goalie and the underdog

cats. All right. Sammy, hear that? One of the reasons... Give him a meow, Sammy. I just... I didn't think that, I think Matthew with the time off, I think he needed some time off. I think something was bothering him. And I think once you get that line going, you get the Lundell line going.

I thought Barkov, I think he's got more game left in him. And I think that goaltender is the hottest goaltender right now in the playoffs. All right. Hope everybody's enjoyed this version of On Golden Pond with Darren Pang. You're a beauty, Kipper. Don't ever change, pal. All right, pal. Enjoy the lake. We'll see you soon.

Darren Pang, everybody. I wonder how far the drive is. So he's got to go from Illinois to St. Louis, right? Yeah. So Missouri. I don't know. Then Indiana. I wonder how long the drive. St. Louis to St. Louis, right? Yeah. So Missouri, I don't know. Then Indiana. I wonder how long the drive. St. Louis to Detroit.

We'll figure that out. Well, Google it. I don't Google. It's okay. Whatever. Used to be Northwest Airlines. That used to go there. Used to do all the airlines.

They're all merged now. All right. So, Sammy, do we have anything out of Paul Maurice? Any Kippers Clippers now that Sheldon's shut it down for the year? I poured through the tape today of... Anything good? I was saying this to Gordo. He's a weird guy to cut audio of.

He said he's tough to clip. Everything's so, like, it's kind of bloviating and over talking and everything's so you say bloviating you're not enjoying it i don't know he's just you know what i think he reminds you of beating out your leaves no i i said throughout the whole thing except for i think there's one day where i listen a little bit i didn't i don't hate paul maurice i like paul maurice a lot i like paul it's okay to hate in the nhl it's good for our game but i liked i like paul maurice as the coach of the leafs i've loved paul maurice's career i've followed him closely like i think he's a great coach and i really had a lot of respect

for him some of the stuff he was doing the least series pissed me off a little bit but it wasn't like the john cooper stuff with him but like i't believe you. I don't find him... His press conferences are very good for the media, but you don't get a ton of information out of him. He's just kind of talking a lot. But I did cut one clip of him talking about what this series is going to be like and what the expectations were, if you want to hear that. All right, let her rip.

Okay, let's go. In that you're probably not here, everybody's got some version of a weakness. I don't know if it's a weakness. How about this? They've got something they're probably not here, everybody's got some version of a weakness. I don't know if it's a weakness. How about this? They've got something they're way better at, because you have to have something that you're really good at to get here. But you've minimized that to the point that you're here.

It's just not your strength anymore. I don't find, I mean, analytically, Carolina was highly unusual compared to the rest of the league. Their defensive numbers are off the charts, and their offensive numbers are really skewed to the right as well. So I don't see that weakness. We've had to improve defensively drastically. Last year they scored a lot of goals.

This year we scored a lot of goals. And I don't think that's going to have anything to do, the goal scoring part will have anything to do with this series. It's going to be both teams are going to grind this thing as hard as they possibly can. They both understand their systems. They both understand their game. It will be as it always is in the end of both players, right?

The guy that gets it off a stick a little quicker inside the bar instead of outside the bar. One more block shot, one more stick in a lane. It'll be the minute details. So there you go. Okay, can I tell uh can i tell and derrick derrick and and sam you're gonna tell you here's a palmery story okay you like the story kipper you like it remember you worked with us at sportsnet for a bit i guess you would i we we worked uh the stanley cup final together yeah uh the year calgary and he used to ride bobby t's motorcycle in the uh when we used to be up at 401 in mccowan remember bobby torrence had the motorcycle and

paul maurice oh yeah right a bit so so i'd heard this story and i asked him if it was true and he said it was it says a lot about him as an individual harry harry neal tells the story that there's an nhl all-star game wherever it was so we're talking a couple of decades ago so bob cole's doing play-by-play, Harry's doing color. So the All-Star game's the only time there's a mishmash of everybody from different teams there. So it can be, you know, a little confusing. It's not like what Bob Cole and Harry normally do,

Toronto versus Philadelphia, Edmonton, you know. So coming out the morning of the game, so Bob Cole's with Harry, and then he sees someone down there and he said harry who's that and harry said because he thought it legitimately was timo solani so anyway bob cole starts going over and harry realized oh my god it's paul maurice the blonde hair probably well and so anyway bob cole starts talking to paul maurice like he's timo solani like asking about finland and all this stuff and everything and paul maurice is there with his Bob Cole starts talking to Paul Maurice like he's Timo Solani,

like asking about Finland and all this stuff and everything. And Paul Maurice is there with his parents. And Paul, realizing Bob Cole's in pretty deep, assumes the personality of Timo Solani, right? Just for the brief interaction. Yeah, just whatever. Did he go into an accent? Finnish accent? Just whatever.

Just because Bob was just looking new pleasantries. But anyway, and so Bob left satisfied that he had a few words with Timo Solani. And I asked when we worked with him at Sportsnet, and Paul me said, don't you ever tell that story. It's true. Like you said that. But it's a true story. It just shows that, you know, I like that side about him.

He just kind of said, okay, here's a Hall of Fame legend broadcast guy, and he's with my parents. He thinks I'm Teemu, so I'll just answer a couple of Teemu questions, and he's going to go on and say hi to somebody else. So I always thought that's a real neat little slice of life measure of the guy. Right, Sam? Hilarious. Yeah.

And you think about, particularly back then, there's a similarity. Like Teemu Salani, Paul Maurice, you know, whatever way back when, back when both still pretty youthful guys I mean no one's more youthful in Teemu but anyway I always got a kick out of that kind of reminds me of a story I took my dad to a players association uh in Lake Tahoe right okay and uh golfing my me my dad and uh Ken Baumgartner Ken he's disappeared. He's disappeared. Oh, he's super smart somewhere. I know. But anyway, Baumgartner.

I like Baumgartner. Yeah. So, you know, we were finishing up our round and we're getting to like the 18th hole. And my dad says, hey, thank you, Paul. And I'm like, who's Paul? He goes, oh, yeah. And then he answers. And I go, he's not Paul.

He's Ken. And I go, did he just call you Paul? He says he's not paul he's ken and i go did he did he just call you paul he says he's been calling me paul for four and a half hours i didn't have the heart to tell him my name's ken i have i'm really bad with names and it's one of like the great things it horrifies me that i wish i was better and I hate calling somebody by their wrong name, but I can never remember anybody's name. It drives me nuts. Listen, you've got buddy, chum,

pal, boss, big guy. I've got a bag full of them for you if you want them. I use all those, Kipper. Do you do the one when you're not sure? I am talking to Sam, but I'm not sure of his name. So then you come, Kipper. There you go. Do you do the one when you're not sure? And so I'm talking to Sam, but I'm not sure of his name. So then you come, Kipper.

And I just go, hey, Nick. Do you do that? Because you're like in no man's land. I'm going to try that. Oh, yeah. I'm going to try that. I'll be interested, if we can go back to the hockey game, what I'm actually

interested to see tonight is that you know a big difference between the leafs and florida was the four check of florida and their ability to get on to the leafs d core in terms of them creating turnovers the offensive zone yeah no space what are you gonna do to carolina's that's what i'm wondering are they gonna to – that was probably the biggest – Big, strong, and mobile. And they can break the puck out as good as any D court. We'll find out quickly in the first 10 minutes. Burns, Pesci, Slavin, Shea, you know, Gostisbeer, on and on and on.

Yeah. Like, wow. Wow. And we kind of – I kind of made fun of them for that Gostisbeer trade, thinking that, you know, it's such a Carolina move. It's not the big star they're going for. Everybody thought they were going to go after Timo Meier, and they beat Timo Meier pretty handily in a series,

and Goss Dispair is contributing for them well. Like Max Domi, right? I love those ones that, you know, the big names are the big names, and it didn't pan out for the New York Rangers in there, but the other ones, like, and it can be an element element of luck sometimes but more often i'll give pro scouting credit kipper you know just about you know you'd say that's what you try to get a pro scout it's just about where's someone that can fit in a in a different a better role we can give them a better opportunity and they can embrace that with our team that maybe they're not getting with their

current team nick kiprios gordon stord Stelic, Sammy McKee, a couple of news and notes around the league. Let's start with Lindy Ruff going back to New Jersey and how close he was to fire Lindy. Yeah, so is that really a news and note on May, whatever day it is today, 18th, is it? I don't know. It's in my lineup.

I put it in there. I'm looking for stuff. No, no, Sam, no. At least you're giving us nothing to talk about. It was a news and note because someone did ask Fitzgerald the question. So he kind of said, yeah, Lindy will be back. But it's an incredible story that Andrew Burnett was made associate coach, okay, and so the optics were to the fans.

Yes. Lindy is on beyond a short leash. And the fans decided we're going to make it no leash. We're going to start calling for his firing the second game of the regular season. And wow, what a, you know, good on Lindy. And hey, it's like the pedigree of all these coaches that are in the Stanley Cup Final Four, right? They've been around different stops. And I wonder, how was Andrew Burnett thought of?

I'm big on him as a potential coach. In Calgary, people wonder, because of Jonathan Huberto, does a guy like Burnett who had him in Florida or Gerard Gallant who had him in junior? I mean, that's the one guy Calgary's got to get going. Like, how much does that factor in any kind of decision in Calgary? Who's still looking for a GM? Yeah, it just seemed that once you have a team

like the President's Trophy champions there last year and you don't get the job done, there's maybe just a little bit of a stigma there. He was in the final three for the Jaguars. I know. I know. Well, wait. Talk about stigma. Jim Montgomery.

Okay? Different kind of stigma, but got the opportunity and became first overall. Anyway, all it takes is one guy to like you or one woman to like whoever's doing the hiring. That's all it takes. 31 other situations can have no use for you. I want to get your thoughts on

the Arizona Coyotes. And I think it was yesterday that Clayton Keller's father tweeted out that his son's going to leave Arizona. And I don't know. Was it followed up with anything, Sam, from Clayton Keller today in terms of wanting out? Is his dad Alan Walsh? No, his dad's his dad.

Okay. And is this what's happening now? Are the guys just, all their best players just bailing right now? His dad, this is where he sent a tweet to the Arizona Coyotes official account when they put out the statement that I put in the lineup yesterday. Keller will not be there at the beginning of the season and expect others to follow or not sign. Team will be moved and there are no other options and Phoenix will regret losing a professional sports team.

City just got diluted from a perception standpoint. Privately financed too. Is what he said. Did he mean it as an email to the organization but it became a tweet? Maybe. Probably could have been. But how could you not feel that way?

If you are a player there, like you're really going to make us play at a college, like an especially Clayton Keller was a long-term contract. How many more years has he signed for? Like, yeah, but trust me, Gary Bettman already by expressing his extreme disappointment. That's big. It's kind of when he went into the Calgary City Hall

and that with guns ablaze and that you better do something here or we're going to move the Calgary Flames. He's been loyal, loyal, loyal to the Arizona city forever. But come on, this is it. This is uncle. But they're going to play there next year. Well, one more year, yeah. No, no, I just mean it's like, okay, Winnipeg, Atlanta,

the time has struck 12. Let's talk. It sounds like they're not going to do it with their 37-goal score here. They're short of stars. And if this guy wants out. Well, people have wanted out before, and they have to stay. I mean, it's not the best scenario. It's a terrible scenario.

Like, I mean, you know and and and bill armstrong all he can do is what he's been doing a really good job on the ice right but what a horrible look oh that you're now now your players are like i'm not going back okay so here's a quick one you remember arizona remember bob mccall and john shannon talked forever about the Arizona situation. Remember that about a dozen years ago? Like almost too much. But anyway, they were on top of it. They had the info, whatever, but a lot of it.

So do you remember when Doug McClain was on and the rawest radio I ever heard when Bob told him he's never going to come back on the show on that? Do you remember that? I do remember it, yes. What it was about was he doug was on because he had all of a sudden his name popped up with a potential ownership group bobcat was with another potential ownership group right so he wasn't happy because he didn't think doug had come this is the

story behind the story that doug had become clean with him before about it well meanwhile i mean neither ownership group ever got the team but as you know when you when so it was a weird radio because it started innocent enough and then bob was really pissed at doug and doug didn't really realize how he was i never heard that oh yeah and it was now they made up later on okay but i remember people what the hell i go i don't know what and then and that's why there's always an ulterior motive, right? There's generally a vested interest. And it's funny. Theirs became about the Arizona Coyotes and new potential ownership groups that were, you know. Really?

It was, wow. I found it awkward. But it was, I don't know if you ever could find it. That one got away from me. I never heard. It was on Primetime Sports. He just thought it was, I don't know if you ever could find it. That one got away from me. I never heard. It was on Primetime Sports. He just thought it was a guest. Sammy, do we have Doug McClain on Off the Rail Fridays?

You'd know better than me. You call him up. I don't know. I don't know where he is. He's going on a trip somewhere. We'll call him, see if he picks up. Oh, no, I want to ask him about that. So, I mean, Craig Morgan, who does all the work in, like,

covering the Coyotes and covering all this stuff, he's saying that the Coyotes are still looking at five or six sites. Apparently there's a Fiesta Mall possibility. I don't know what the hell that is. Is that like Dante's? Yeah, like they're still. Will they get to play after all the stores close at 9 p.m.?

Yeah, I guess. Yeah, after the college team plays on their rink, they can play there, or they can play at the mall after the Denny's closes. Kippy, is that like the Daunties Fiesta? The Fiesta Mall? Could that be it? When I overordered one night? That's right.

Great peppers. So, yeah. Mess it. Yeah. Anyways, who cares? But they're eyeing the Fiesta Mall site. Okay. I'll be there. Anything F Okay. I'll be there.

Anything Fiesta, I'll be there. Wow, Gord. Just two hours. Felt with you exactly two hours. The sands of time. It's like the soap opera. The sands of time slowly coming down the hourglass. Our thanks to Trip Tracy, Jeff Chikrin, and Darren Pang,

and Gord Stelic, who we have again tomorrow. All right. I'm so grateful for that. I warmed up today. I'm good. I feel better. You were terrific. It's like I went in like Joe Wall.

I'm going to be good. Sammy, it's time tomorrow. Do we have an answer on Kyle Dubas? No, it's not a 5 o'clock yet. Four minutes after we go off air, we will. What do you think? No, I don't think so. You don't think so, eh?

Okay. Okay. To be continued. Let's talk tomorrow.