Real Kyper & Bourne - Fedorov's Closure in Detroit + Will Canucks Say the 'Rebuild' Word?

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

Four-time Stanley Cup Champion Darren McCarty (4:55) joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to look back at Sergei Fedorov's jersey retirement ceremony with the Detroit Red Wings, the closure between the older fanbase, the franchise and their former player, the controversial contract holdout between the Red Wings and Carolina Hurricanes, and Darren's time playing with Sergei. Then, the guys chat about Detroit's chances for a playoff spot and where the priority lies for Steve Yzerman ahead of the trade deadline. Afterwards, co-host of Donnie and Dhali, Rick Dhaliwal jumps on (28:20) to discuss the Vancouver Canucks' losing streak, the word 'rebuild' starting to creep in, Kiefer Sherwood's potential market before the Olympics and roster freeze, Elias Pettersson's future, and Thatcher Demko's injury concerns. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, we go national now on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. Thumbs up on that. This hour of Real Kipper and Born brought to you by Bet365. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Stanley Cup champion, four-time Stanley Cup champion. Also host of the Woodward Sports Network, Darren,

McCarty, of course, a big night last night. Sergei Federov honored number 91 up in the rafters. We'll get Darren's thoughts on that for sure. And also Rick Daliwa will join us in about 35 minutes. Hybrid rebuild talk. Boy, that escalated quickly in Vancouver. Yeah, man. I mean, even watching some of the highlights of that game last night,

They're terrible. Like just so porous, the gaps in coverage are gross. Effort is down. They don't have any skill. It's just not good right now. Did you guys? That sounds like an awesome start. Did you see Fedrov coming out in the car on the ice?

Yes. Did he get to keep the car? I don't think so. Maybe it was his car. I don't know. Yeah. I think he's fine. I think he's by his own.

I was going to say. Financially stable. I just don't know about you guys, but just one of the quintessentially coolest athletes. of my life. Yeah. Like, just total. He was that dude when we were younger.

When I was a kid, there weren't many guys that I wanted on the least more than Sergey Federer. I mean, he'd skate. He was big. The white skates. He was cool. He was in the commercials. The Nike commercials.

Yeah, the Nike commercials. So the white skates with the swoosh. Nike came out of nowhere, right? Because they were all baseball and football and they were like hockey. How did they make everyone's skates look like that last night? I think they'd slap some white. things on the outside. Is that about it? A little skate shell or something? That was kind of cool.

All the players did that for warm up. Sundeen was a big Nike guy too. He had really cool. His, his, I mean, this is gear nerd from being a kid, but he had Nike skates, but they were much more understated. They were just black with the swoosh on them. They look really cool, but God, I loved that. I wasn't in awe a lot. Like, I was playing against Wayne Gretzky. I was against Mario Lemieux. Federov was one of those guys too. Really?

Yes. He was in a small group for me where I'm like, oh my God, that guy's so good. Was there, you know, when you're playing in the NHL, because I've skated with a lot of NHL guys, and there's some guys, I'm like, ah, I can hang with that guy. You know, this or that, maybe he does better, bigger, or whatever. But there's some guys I've been on the ice with.

I'm like, that's not. That's so many levels about what I can do. I had a lot of those so many levels. To me, that must have been fed or off. You're in the NFL and you're looking at that guy. You're like, you should be in a different league. I got to just focus on my level when they step on the ice. That's like the fourth line.

Bring them to your level if possible. It was the things that he could do on his skates. He was like Willie Nealander out there. And we marvel at Willie today, right? Yeah, I think that's a good. As one of the best purest skaters in the league. But then had Selky leveled. defense of work too and played defense one year.

Remember that? Yeah. Scotty Bowman put him on the blue line. Put him on the blue line. How many games did that happen? Really? Yes. I don't know.

I don't remember that as a kid being saying to himself, this is the craziest thing ever. Scotty Bowman and he played for a stretch. He did. On defense. Yeah, yeah. We'll get Darren McCarty's thoughts on that as well. The year we won the Cup, he was arguably

the best player in the world. I don't think he won the scoring title there, but he won the heart. and that was 93-94. The only guy ever to win Selke and Hart in the same year, right? I think so. Really? You know, watching stuff.

The more you know. Watching some of that, you know, presentation last night, he had the thing where he never should have left Detroit. He said, that's on me. He kind of gave that one to the fans, and fans really appreciated that. What was that over? Contract or?

I don't remember why he left. Listen, the young me was not as in tune with the, the NHL and the reasons. But, you know, that was a cool thing. And then, you know, just a lot of kind words of fans seem to really embrace him. He is, yeah, a beloved Detroit Red Wing, to say the least. Do we think they're heading in the right direction right now? Because there's no question.

Very impressive so far first half of the season. Let's welcome him in now. Darren McCarty, four times downly cup champion, host of the Woodward Sports Network. We're just, Mac, how are you, my friend, first of all? Good, fellas, how are you doing? We're good. How's everybody this? Yeah, we're good.

What a great night for you and your particular alumni, especially the Stanley Cup champion teams, to watch Federov last night. Just your overall thoughts of last night and how really special it was for you? I think really for a lot of us and not just the players. but the fans and stuff, it put a tight, nice bow cherry on top to whatever you want to call

at the present, the dessert, to something. And Kippa, you remember because of, you know, playing through those days and stuff like this. And I think because there was always a little bit of contention with, you know, how Sergei left and it wasn't the Red Wing, you know,

sort of departure and stuff. And I think that's why it's taken so long. But cooler heads of fire. finally prevailed. And the best part, if you go watch it, what you got is the authentic Sergey Fedorov that told you his truth, right, in a bunch of different ways and sort of cleared up a bunch of things and did it his way from coming out in a Corvette, right? Coming out in a 90s Corvette, which was so Sergei. So I think for all of us that know Sergey, whether you're a fan, a friend, a teammate or whatever, last night was unbelievable. It was a cherry on top. And I think

it's just, you know, the way the game ended and overtime and stuff like that, it was perfect. Darren, I hate to have you do our research for us here, but I don't remember exactly the details of his departure and what made it sort of contentious. Could you just fill me in a little bit on what those details were? Because to me, it's been like, wait, why? I haven't understood why there was this sort of divide between the two sides. Well, I think it always had con back to maybe it was, it was, the contract offer that he'd accepted from Carolina that Detroit had matched.

And then along the lines after he'd won in 2002, it was one of these things that, like Sergey said it last night. And I can relate to it because I left and came back during the lockout from 05 and went to Calgary and then was able to come back and finish here. But the fact that he said is that, you know, his head was different places. He'd been there and he left and that was on him. But as the reason is for all of us that just are interested in the why, well, he went and he found the love of his life and now he's got two kids and that he said it pointedly is that it's on me that I left, but if I didn't leave, wouldn't have left, I wouldn't have met the love of my life and have two beautiful kids.

So I think we can all understand the way that life works and something that it's unfortunate. And I just think to be addressed that there was, that people sort of weren't happy. And I know, like, a bunch of times that Sergathe got booed and, you know, whether it was Joe Lewis when he came back and it was just because there was a lot of hurt feelings. I think that that was one of the, you know,

most hurt feelings, I guess, in the Red Wing organization. But everything worked itself out. And last night was a culmination. And that's why it was put a pretty bow on it. You're watching and listening to Darren McCarty, four-time Stanley Cup. champion doing terrific work on the Woodward Sports Network.

We are talking Sergei Federov retiring his 91 jersey last night. So correct me if I'm wrong, Mac. But you broke in the year he won the MVP, correct? Yeah, the heart, the Pearson, and the Selke. Right? Never to be done. So that was my first year. Yeah.

Unreal. So like that was my wheelhouse where it was Wayne and Mario. and Sergei comes in with this remarkable season. I'm just, do people truly know how good he was? And at that point, he was the best player on the planet that season. Is that fair to say? Yeah, no, for sure. Just here's the thing, what we always do, Kipper, right?

Just go ask Brett's. Grets is the one who would be tooting Sergei's horn. It's the fact of just get out there and watch it. because it was, I think we'd seen, we'd started to see, you know, the Russian player come over. I mean, look at the guys that he grew up with and played with, you know, the burreras and the Mugilneys and the way that, you know, they could skate. They all did it. Sergei just did it at 200 feet, right? He did it all over the ice.

And then later in his career, reverted Scottie needed to get him more ice time. So I say, you know, go play defense and win a cup. So, I mean, it's like, like, and that, and. The talk, you know, around our room or whatever is just how talented he is. And trust me, I've been around super talented guys. But, you know, this is a guy that if he crafted at defense, would probably want to Norris. And that's not coming from me.

So just an exceptional talent for whatever reason. And I think that, like, a lot of times, it just goes out notice. I think for us, Kipper, is because we were playing in the West, right? And you know, you're looking 30 years ago and the way that it's covered. So it sort of sneaks up on you. You would have heard about it in New York and in Toronto and stuff like this just because of being in the hockey world. But as far as everybody else, I mean, it's unbelievable.

All you got to do is go talk to guys that were on the ice with them. Okay, so if you, Ken, I counted the seconds I skated backwards in my career. I don't think it would add up to a minute. What were your first? What was your first, as a team, watching Sergey go back there? What were your first thoughts? And, you know, what was it like watching one of the best forwards

all of a sudden go back there and make it look like it's a walk in the park? It was absolute BS because now I had to go chase Lidsstrom and Fedorov in practice. Right? I mean, you get, you get, that's why the grind line was so angry during the games. We never got to touch the puck in practice. They got the Russian five.

You got, you know, Sergey, you got Nick. I mean, yeah, that's why you wonder why we take runs at Shelley. Yeah. I mean, there's a Hall of Famer, and it might have been the easiest back there. So I think it was just, it was more, see, we were conditioned, right, by then into 02 with that Hall of Fame team and stuff is it was just getting Sergey on the ice. When the Russians were on the ice anyways, it was like half the time one of the fours was playing D anyway. So it doesn't surprise me how easily he kept to it.

One of the things I think the difference is, which makes the best of the best, is not putting themselves in position for guys like us to continue to take runs at them and get pieces of him, and then Sergey was just, he was smart like that. So, yeah, I mean, you just, yeah, frustrating to stay at least, but that's just because I had to play them in practice not the game. Are you good on Sergey? All right, so let's move to the Detroit Red Wings Hockey Club, which is in first place in the Atlantic Division right now.

Oh, go ahead. Can I just say one more thing before we get off the Fed off the thing? I think the most important thing, if people didn't, see that Sergey said, right, was that when he said to Steve Eiserman, and you can argue who the greatest captain is, right? You played with one in Mark Bessier. I mean, that's apples to apples. Sidney Crosby is a great one. We're not arguing that. But the fact that Sergey Federeff said that Steve Iserman is the person that he learned the most from, right, on and off the ice, that lays everything out to the relationship that people always speculated that they had a conference.

You know what I mean? It was combative or whatever. No. It was sort of big brother or little brother. And I think that that choked Stevie up last night. And Steve Eisenman, man, does never show the motion. No, no, no. That's an accomplishment choking them up.

That's how I just wanted to add that. Yeah, great. Make sure that you guys, everybody knows that. That's what I took from. And it was just like, yeah. So I think a lot of questions got answered for a lot of people yesterday. Oh, that's awesome. I think fans probably loved it and deserved to get that.

They're also loving this team. As I mentioned, in first place right now, a handful of wins in a row. Are they a first place team? What have you seen? What do you think this Detroit Red Wings team is? Where's the dice? Whoever the first place, let's roll it, pick a team.

There's four of us. Grab another guy. I mean, it's Eastern Conference. Where? It doesn't matter. I think the question is, is this a playoff team. Yeah. I think that that yes, it is.

Now, I'm not going to fall into because, like I said, you go on a three or four game losing streak, and you're looking up. So I just think that the way that the NHL is, the way that they are playing, the way, especially the guy that was brought in here to be the adult, well, two of them. John Gibson is playing phenomenal hockey right now, and he just looks comfortable. and it doesn't look like, you know, he's tiring and Camdow Talbot's done a great job behind him, but he's done what he's been brought here to do. And, you know, James Van Riemsdipes, another adult in that dressing room.

But it's all about the youth, right? It's all about the kids and the skate and the stuff like this. And we're just grateful that now the hashtag wiser plan, you can put the clock on it because you see the young guys. Axel Sam Pelican, that's what I call. the Sam Pelican. So, you know, Nate Danielson, Emmett Finney, you know, guys like this, they have the speed to play against any team in the league. And that's where it starts in this game.

Now, you know, I think that it'll be interesting come trade deadline because I think that knowing Stevie is that he's going to try to, just like we used to in the past, is it now is the time to insulate your team, you know, whether it's bringing the veteran guy in and stuff like that, solidifying your roster. because, you know, playoff hockey is just a little bit different. But the way that the league goes nowadays, it's playoff hockey every night. So it's crazy. They got to keep doing what they're doing.

And, you know, that's the step. So it's not when it's when, you know, you sit here and ask me, I don't think they're a cup caliber team just yet, but I think that they're a lot closer to it now than they were at the beginning of the year. So you've seen the finishing touches on a Stanley Cup roster multiple times. What is it particularly you would look for a top score, a top six score, a bottom heavy guy, D? Where would you go, Mack? There's the three, right, Kipper?

Are you taking a top six guy, a score, somebody that can move in, be on your top two power, play that plays minutes that has experience, i.e. a guy like a rust in Pittsburgh, right? Like, are you going to experience that? Or are you going to go further down the roster and try to solidify and look a little bit different in Sherwood in Vancouver, a little bit heavier, like a guy that can play some minutes and also, you know, be that guy. Are you going to go for Murphy or Samuelson or somebody on defense, like a four or five

guy to solidify yourself. So I think it's all up for grabs and it's all open. I know that back in our day, before the salary cap, Scotty would go out and get all of them. So I don't think that happens now. I really think because regular season is getting those goals and getting that extra point. It's about not losing games. Don't look in the wins or column or whatever. Look in the loss.

And if you have less losses, that means you're getting points. But in playoffs, man, it's keep the puck out of the net. So I think for me, I want that D. I want that 3-4D guy, somebody that can play in the lineup. I mean, you know, Ben Shara's done an unbelievable job with the young kid. But, you know, let's utilize and solidify that. usually because it's a little bit different in playoffs, but you need guys because somebody's probably going to go down,

but who can step up. So the interesting part is that I think that there'll be some activity in Detroit, this trade deadline. That's always way more fun. You know, you talked a little bit earlier on the show here about Federov playing D and you had Lidstrom. You've seen some really good D. Most cider this year has got himself not just in Norris conversations.

I heard them in heart conversations too. What are your thoughts on the steps he's taken this year to become one of the league's elite? Yeah, I mean, he is really stepping out. You look at those two back there and most sider who's ahead, but Simon Edvinson also and the two of them playing together being his second year, which was he's doing exactly what Stevie thought, you'd have projected, right? We all project guys to be. I think that, you know, with Axel coming up,

and the way that they've got it, he's playing, yes, the intense minutes and against the top players, but there's a comfortability to him. You know, last year, it just seemed that it was a little bit more nervous, not nervousness, just the puck didn't sit as well on his stick. Now he takes the game over. I always said that, you know, I look at guys and who does he remind me of or who can he, who we want to turn into or you want to be. Like myself, I always just wanted to be Rick Tocke.

Okay, so, but with him, it's Victor Hedman. So if he gets closer to be in that lead, right? And I think that Mo, you know, also too, leaning towards that in that youth. But yes, he's definitely a leader. He's wearing a letter for a reason. All those guys. I think it's, he's bounced back to anybody who had criticized, you know, last year not playing as well. he's really taking that to heart.

And every night he's one of your best players out there, as he has to have been. You know, you're led by this team by most side are on Dian Dill Larkin on Ford. But everybody else getting the support. Matt, great stuff, man. We so appreciate you dropping in. Fantastic stuff from last night.

You're always welcome on this show, pal. Anytime. Keep crushing it. Boys, remember, the Red Wings are going to get better, so you're going to need to call and you're going to reach out. You got that right. Kipper, none of the other guys answer your question. call, but I do.

You got that right, Mac. Drapes is on a pickleball court right now. Drapes dropped me long ago. That's all right. You got me now, Kippre. I love it. I love it, man. That is Stanley Cup champion, Darren McCarty.

That was great stuff. I'm with him, hey. Rick Tarkin. That's so cool. I love that. I mean, that's a great guy for him to have aspired to be, right? That's just like an extra skill level and whatever. and Mack had, he was

All time, Morris all around. All time leader in Gordy Hill Hatrix. Rick Tock. So just to put a bow on Detroit here, because we don't know, we don't know how this thing ends up, particularly in the Atlantic, right? This was the year that Detroit had to make a move.

This is the year Stevie Eisenman had to show something here, and he's gotten it there, at least for the first half of the season. Now the one interesting thing that you got to keep Keep in mind is that like Tampa's limited Florida's limited the Leafs are even limited On assets and what they can do to improve their roster Whereas Detroit is fresh man They have they're loaded they've got

They can easily fit guys in They have the second lowest salary cap They have all their first. They have assets. Like this is now who's in a position to improve their roster between now and March and the deadline? And it's Detroit and Montreal. And those are the top teams that are they going to hold on? I hope those two, as someone who does a Leafs hour,

I hope those two have a bidding war for Artemmy Panarin or something. Half a season of Artemian Panera. They'll get them. they'll get them and they'll have assets to keep to spare too yeah maybe the red wings will reunite didn't cane and panarin play together in chicago yeah i actually think the red wings they've overachieved based on their performance this season to date like they've got as many points yeah you haven't been impressed with them though yeah and you know i still think they're good like they're fine they're deep they're solid the last time we covered them against the leafs it was like

for 39 minutes you're like how Yeah. How are they a top team? I mean, they go through their roster and I'm like, ah, I guess Andrew Copp and... And then the light switch kind of went off a little bit. Well, they're solid. Then they got the D or the big thing. That Edvinson is good.

Yes, he's good. And Cider's elite. Their fans were pissed that he wouldn't make Team Sweden. That Edvinson did. Yeah. Like, people were talking about him not making... I saw a big thing about all of Recland-Larsson making it over. Edvinson was a pretty questionable decision.

Wait, wait a guys get hurt. Oh, there's someone else on screen. That was tough to leave off that they did. They missed. Pontus Holmberg made it. Yeah. But do you think they'd be in the conversation for a cadre kind of acquisition, the Red Wings?

I think they'd be in a conversation for Pedersen. Oh, I like that. Yeah. That one makes sense to me. Really? For sure. Yeah.

But there's a lot of places this roster can go. Did Matias Echholm? not make the roster? No, he definitely made it. He had to have made it. Yeah. But we'll get into that too with Rick. We will. Game time? Game time. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app play this odds and see why it's ever ordinary at Bet365 must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Lots of action. Again, there's just 10 games every single night. Every team plays every night. So if you're a hockey fan, these next two weeks are literally the dream time for you because there's just so many

the game's going on. I'll take a look first at the Toronto Maple Leafs who play the second half of back-to-back in Utah. Did you want to hazard a guess? Sorry, Eckholm didn't make it. What? Yeah, and Broberg did. Ekholm didn't make Team Sweden.

It's a good thing for the Oilers. Rest. And Philip Broberg, who they moved. Just on a fat new contract, too, that Broberg. Sorry. I'm not surprised with that. Anyway, so I'm just saying if Edmondson was not the next guy up, in my opinion. Wow.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are plus 125 tonight, a slight underdog in Utah, taking on the mammoth on the second half of back-to-back. Mammoth minus 150 on the money line. There's just a lot of Atlantic teams playing in games. You're just hoping for some losses for a least perspective. But the Detroit Red Wings and Boston Bruins, they're playing. That's where the marquee game tonight. Three points.

I will promise you that this game goes to overtime. I'm just going to check out what a – I guess it would be a tie pays. If I know how to look that up, I'm not sure I do. But give me the Detroit Red Wings in that game as an underdog on the road at the at the Bruins. And give me a sorry, I just lost it here. Okay. Oh boy.

I was just going to say, it's gone. So I'm not going to give you anything there. And also the Montreal Canadians, another Atlantic team in Washington taking on the capitals, plus 115 on the money line there, some decent value in my opinion for the, pretty good Montreal Canadians who are an underdog in Washington. Anyways, that was game time

presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete of odds and CYS every ordinary at Bet365, must have a team plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. You just got to blow through it.

What are we going to do with that? Listen, I was going to look up a goal, it blew away, it was going to take me time, I was going to hum and ha, just power through. The whole segment hinges

on his Wi-Fi working. No, I was just, I was swiping over something and it all disappeared and I just had to power fuel noise. That's it. All right. No better explanation than that.

That's all you need. Would you rather me sit here and be like, go? Yeah. Okay. No, no, you're good. You're good. You're good. You're good.

You're good. You see it this time. Put it that way. What do you mean? Okay. We'll take a quick break here. I'll get Sammy's, what do you call it? Tinder.

Swipe left, swipe away. What is it? I don't know what you're going for, pal. Swipe left. Swipe left for dates. Yeah. We're not sure what you're looking for. Yeah, what's the joke?

Well, how you swipe left or swipe right when you're doing that. Okay. You have a swiping pattern that you're used to, maybe. Good one. All right, all right. What a joke? Got Carlin over there. No, no, 10 out of 10.

Sorry. Tender. Is it tender? Tinder? Yeah. All right. All right. Calm yourself down.

We'll get her going on sports at 650 in Vancouver. As we go, Vancouver Canucks next with Rick Dolly. co-host of Donnie and Dolly, the team on Czech television. What do the Canucks do? We'll answer that and more, especially with Sammy on his Wi-Fi after the break. Diving deep into Leif, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The Jady Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A reminder of this hour of Real Kipperman Born brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren, Samuel McKee. We'll just wait on Rick Dahliawa. In the meantime, there is an update about Braden Point from Tampa Bay Lightning. What is the latest? The latest is that his season is not over. They avoided the worst case scenario. He is week to week.

What does that mean for the Olympics? Yeah. There's just no way I think you would jeopardize Tampa Bay Lightning season for the Olympics. If it's three weeks, that's February 3rd or so. Like, you need a conditioning sting, maybe. Interesting. All right.

Let's welcome in Rick, co-host of Donnie and Dolly. Rick, how are you, buddy? Look at you, steady. I just spoke too soon. Yeah, buddy, you're great. You are absolutely great. Always the pleasure to join Toronto's best. Listen, usually we have you scheduled at the top of

hour, but based on what we've seen out of the Vancouver Canucks lately, you're like that break the glass in case of emergency right now on our show. So that's what we're doing to find out what the heck is going on out there. What are the vibes? And where is this thing heading? And where did it derail maybe, Rick, in your eyes in the last 12, 18 months? Well, that's a great question, Nick. It started going downhill, Millie. Pedersen, right? Miller Patterson, that feud

because the year before they took Edmonton to game seven, that's where it started. Let's be honest. And then Quinn Hughes, he wants out of town. Let me tell you something, Kipp. Kipper, they're finally using

the rebuild word in Vancouver, but let's get one thing straight. Being a 30-second place in rebuilding was not a part of the plan this year, right? This season was all

win for Quinn. It was, let's have a great year so next summer we can sign Quinn Hughes. Well, that didn't go according to plan, did it? They're in 32nd place because a massive mistake by management,

especially at the center rights position. This team once had Pedersen, Horvett, Miller, Lindholm in the last two, two and a half years, three of those guys are gone. They now have David Kemp as a second-line center.

Brock Besser has to score in 20 games. Kemp can't get him the puck. Skilled wingers need a center to get him the puck. And guess what? Camp isn't it. And the fact that he's your second-line center is not good. the rebuild here guys is going to consist of playing young kids surrounding them with good veterans

they clearly want the rebuild not to be six seven eight nine years like buffalo Detroit Arizona San Jose Florida those guys took forever right some of them are still going through it these things aren't fun but when they start trading some of these vets Nick that you're keeping an eye on too I know you do a great job

trade-wise, it's going to get worse here. They're in 32nd place with veterans. When they get rid of some of these guys like Sherwood and Kane and, you know, O'Connor and all these guys, things are not going to get better. They're going to get worse because if they're true to their word about a rebuild, then younger kids are coming and you've got to play the heck out of the young kids. but Vancouver fans, honestly, guys, Kipper Borg,

they just want to see a plan. They just want to see clarity. You know, in the past 15 years, there's been one playoff win. That was two years ago, right? It's been a lot of bad ownership, management, going through coaches. It's been a, since 2011 in the magical run,

it's been a real tough time event. They just want to plan. They just want to plan in clarity. And if you're going to say rebuild, which they have, but they haven't really started doing rebuild things yet. Start doing the rebuild things like trading veterans and big contracts for young kids and draft picks. Like Montreal, last night we're watching the haves. And everybody in the city is going go-go-gaga over what the haves did.

And they're rebuilt. So, and, you know, Trevor Linden told the owner in 2017 to do the rebuild. And then Jim Benning says, hold on, I can fix it in two years. Well, who did he, what, which way did he go? He went Jim's way and not Trevor's way. Just give us a plan, show clarity, and execute the plan. I think that's all the people of Vancouver want. So it doesn't sound like you're convinced there's a clear plan as of now.

So does that mean you're not sure? like where is a guy like Sherwood? Do you think that's going to happen soon? All right. Let me get into, there's a ton of guys here. Let's get into the guys. First of all, there's too many guys that are over 21 with no moves and trade protection.

Like they were handing out trade protection like candy, right? And so you got to deal with that. And one team told me that, you know, mostly the guys available in Vancouver are winners. like the goalies aren't available I don't see any defensemen available three of their defensemen are either 20 years old or 21 I think most of their

guys available are wingers so the team told me we can't call Vancouver because it's mostly wingers available and we got a lot of wingers so Sherwood's the big name right no question he's going to get moved but now he's injured one to three weeks

so you guys got to keep and I on the Olympic roster freeze February 4th. There's a good chance,

guys. Sherwood might be not playing until the roster fees. Then you come out of the

Olympic freeze and you only have 12 days to the deadline. So let me get into Sherwood. Lots of

interests. Leads the team in goals, power play, penalty killing hits. Good guy.

Good team guy. Great mortar. You know, hardest working guy, him in Garland is not even close.

Salary is low. Playoff teams love him. There's not a team in the league that can't fit him in cap-wise. Canucks still want a first-rounder and something else? They're not getting it. But I will tell you something.

When they first started shopping Sherwood, it wasn't for a first. I had another team tell me that as soon as he started scoring at a good clip and a ton of the team started calling, they opted to a first. And I don't have a problem with that.

I just don't know if they're going to get a first. Lots of interest on Sherwood. Teams love the way he plays. They think he's going to be a good playoff guy and a playoff team. Can I try to keep him a couple of weeks ago. They made an offer around $4 million a year, right? Three, four years. In the summer, they offered three times three with his old agent.

But this is most likely going to end up, I think, guys, Sherwood, and the trade. But they gave it the old college try. But the $4 million ain't going to cut it. The Dvorak contract in Philadelphia is more like what Garlands are so he sure what's going to get in the summer or if he can kind of deal with the team before trade. So you would mention Center Rice in Camp now. They're second line centermen. Where are we on EP 40, Pedersen? And like, they're thin at center.

Does it matter anymore? Does it not matter? Just move them if you can, providing you can get the assets that you think still a 10 or 11 million. player could command? He's got a no move too. I don't see. Does he want to stay? Yeah, I think he does.

You have to go back to when the Canucks threaten him with the trade and, you know, sign or trade or whatever. And he said, no, I don't want to go anywhere. Like, Kipper, he didn't sign for 70 years because he wants to leave a year in, a year in.

Like, I don't have any evidence or proof that he wants out. And when I bring it up with his agent, J.P. Barry, You know, JP doesn't, he hates him when I bring up these scenarios with him, but he's got a no move. I got no evidence that he wants out or he wouldn't want to get out. He just got married in the summer.

I just, I don't have evidence right now, Kipper, that he wants out. And here's the other one for you. If you do trade him, you better get his centerman back, because I just told you they're the weakest team in the National Hockey League of Center when David Kemp's your second guy, you know, Rossi's her, you know, heels her. They got Braden Coots coming from the Western Hockey League in a couple of years. He's going to be a good one.

But, you know, I'm looking at this year's draft, too. I've got to feel because of their standardized position, they'd love to grab a centerman in the top 10, too. You know, they got their eyes on, you know, some good ones, including one in your neck of the woods, Caleb Mahaltra, who's having a great year in the OHL. Look, Kipper, if you trade Pedersen, who's your first line center.

Are you getting a first line center back? I mean, he's not ripping it up anyways, but I just think there's a draft. You can in the draft. You find them in the draft. You load up. And you look at developing them in the next two or three years, four years. That's what a rebuild's about.

Yeah, I get that. And the pain is coming, like in this city. Because, like, I got to tell you guys something. It's easy to say rebuilds. is harder to go through it. Go ask Detroit. You know, go ask Buffalo. It's been 14 years.

You know, I mean, you know, and I think the Connacht's preference is to not do six, seven, eight, nine years and do it quicker. Well, how do you do it quicker? Like, there's going to be paying. They're the dead last in the league, guys, for a reason. It's not a good hockey club right now.

Yeah. You know, it's not. Last one for me, Rick. Just want to get to your thoughts on Thatcher Demko. Are you hearing anything about his future? What's going on with him? Well, he got hurt right in your neck of the woods there in Toronto on Saturday. I was told this morning they're still evaluating him.

They're hopeful for an update either tonight or tomorrow. There's something wrong. He's getting hurt every 9th or 10th game. He had a knee issue this year. He had a groin injury for five weeks. But I was told this morning they're going to take their time and look at everything, right? When he's healthy for long stretches, guys, he's divest in a candidate. Problem is, he's played 23 games last year and 20 this year.

He can't stay healthy. And he's going to make $8.5 million next year. Like, guys, you know, between Demko and Lankan, they're going to pay $13 million, close to $13 million on two goalies and possibly in a rebuild. You know, well, they're going to be in a rebate. They're not going to be good next year, you're going to pay two goalies, 13 million? Right?

So there's a lot of factors that play. And the club signed him on July 1st. Many are wondering, why didn't you guys wait? You know, why didn't you guys wait to see how he did this year and then sign him? But anyways, that's what's the point? It's overweight. I will tell you something else. And, you know, Dempco was high on the U.S. Olympic teams list to replace injured guys.

The three guys are, and I'm going to tell you something else. Americans thought about him seriously. They just couldn't get over the injuries. But when the three other goalies were picked ahead of them, the Americans had told him that if there's an injury, you're most likely going to be the first guy called up to replace, but I don't know where that's hit now. When he's on and when he plays well and he's healthy,

unbelievable goaltender. But he's going to a stretch here, guys, with injuries, is just unbelievable. Rick, really appreciate your... Joining us today under short notice, man, but we'll keep an eye on a lot of these storylines. Thanks for joining us. Always.

Any time for you guys. Thanks, Rick. Appreciate it. Rick Dahlia. Yeah, my, this, this Demko situation is like, couldn't come at a worse time

because you've now took a very good goal tender. And the injuries have devalued him immensely to the point where USA hockey doesn't see him as a viable substitution. if anything happens and what team would trade for him, even if they decided to move him. No, it's a fair point. If you don't trust that a guy is going to be available for you, then it's just...

It's why I was surprised they paid him that money. I guess you feel like if you pay him is not available. It wasn't a six-year deal, thank goodness. Still, though, I mean, it's three, right? It was three. But don't you feel like with those guys, it's like, well, pay him, if he's healthy, good. If he's not healthy, it's LTIR.

I know it's not nothing, but it's... It can affect your ability. to accrue cat money and all that if you're forced to be an LTIR, but I do like Sherwood. I do like him for your leaps. No, but I like him as a play. I wouldn't try to the first for him, but I like him. Other storylines around the league, the Rangers are, yeah, they're in big trouble. They're in big trouble, eh?

I just, I don't know, I don't know where they're headed, much like a lot of teams where you just blink and their roster's old, older. A lot of 33, 34th, 35-year-olds here. J.T. Miller, former Vancouver Canuck, was supposed to come in there and change the culture and make it a little tougher. And it's just... It's just hasn't... It hasn't turned around. Do we have any sound from J.T. Miller?

We have a clip. Yeah, I think we do have a clip. Jaja grabbed it. It's just him kind of being at his wits end. What's your message to the group and just be in the end? after a loss like this. I mean, I know how much you guys are trying to do the right things. Oh, I don't say anything.

Yeah, I don't know what to say. I mean, we're going to go to have a good practice tomorrow and get ready to play this game. Don't know what to say. Yeah, and he was also asked something to the effect of, like, did you have, like, an emotional dip and, or, you know, energy dip? I don't know. I don't know. Sounds like it. How do you feel about that?

You think he owes more of an explanation? That's the other thing, too, is. Not to know the New York Rangers. I know. I don't answer the question better probably, yeah. Yeah. But he's never pretended to be that guy either. I don't care.

Right? I'm not making any excuse for him. But I'd rather him say, I don't know what to say. I believe that's true. I believe he's. You can explain that answer, though. Here's why I don't know what to say. You know, I'm not seeing, you know, seeing it from our team or maybe we're at long run.

You can elaborate on why you don't know. But there's also opportunities to. dig yourself in a little deeper if and if you don't want to go there you have the right just to say I don't know what to say even though you are the captain it's a little bit of a Matthews did that though you'd be like

that's unacceptable from the representative of this giant organization who's supposed to be the emotional leader who's brought in to change the culture and the culture he's bringing is more apathy and but the difference would be is we know where this is headed for JT and this team it's like it's

over. Well, if that's the case, yeah, okay. It's over. Well, in terms of a playoff run. Yeah, for a playoff run and ultimately if they are going to go into a rebuild, they're going to have to clean some house here. Panarin.

Yeah, maybe write another letter. Do whatever you need to do, but it's we just talked about Vancouver and maybe some pain coming up. There might be some short term pain, maybe longer term for a window that's now closed in New York. They got Trochecks signed for this year and three more and Miller for five, six more.

Trochecks a guy that a lot of teams would trade for right now. Oh, yeah, for sure they would. I mean, he's 32. What's his cap hit? It's a little expensive. No, it's not. It's 5.6. You got to the list of one.

Okay, so it's in the wheelhouse. Which? I know. Did you want to hear Sullivan's thoughts? He gets a good, good quote. Yeah. You can play the Sullivan clip there, Derek. You know, this is a good group of guys.

they care a lot about what's going on. And when you don't have success, nobody feels it more than us. And so I understand the circumstance that we're in. But, you know, the answers are inside our locker room, and that's where we have to look for them. He's an intense guy, eh? Everything really, whenever he talks, it really feels like life and death. Not a lot of levity with him.

Well, can I tell you, I'm going to write this at some point. but hockey loves a serious man. He's the most hockeyman of as it gets. They love Elaine Lambert, Dave Hacksdall, like give me your most serious men and I'll make them a coach for some reason. Barube, for example, here, is a hockeyman. But a perceived serious man, I would say.

But he'll, like with the media, you'll have a joke, he was talking about the... So, I have an elaborate theory about this. I'm going to write it all at some point. Okay. Once you win, you earn the right. Paul Marie is probably a more serious man. you know, win some cups has some, it's not even the cups, it's like longevity.

Eventually you earn the right to have levity. Palmerace, John Cooper, they've got a little bit of, oh, they, they levitt. Right? Yeah, they're sitting at the top of the mountain. Well, it's it. And they kind of, they get to be like, ha-ha. But if you want to rise in the ranks and get hired for NHL jobs, you need to be a serious hockey. But I feel like Mike Sullivan, he's won.

He's been around forever. It kind of hurts your theory. It hurts my theory that levity comes. I think you get permission to, be levitationist. Yeah. But I don't think he's, I'm aware that's not aware of it. You got to have a sense of humor, too, though.

You've got to have a good sense of humor to kind of get away with a lot of things. Yeah, it helps. Some guys just aren't funny people. Nope, that's true. That's true, too. How about the devils last night? Went in the Hughes Bowl. You don't want to talk about?

Yep, that was good. You want to talk about Linus Allmark back practicing with the team today. No one wants to talk about Ottawa? I don't want to do any one. I plead the fifth. Dougie Hamilton, two assists. Dougie Hamilton two assists. I told you they're going to come begging back for him.

Who? The devil's? Are other teams? I'll just play well and give us more options here. So yeah, Allmark on the ice. With the team. I think. Yeah. Maybe perhaps.

Yeah. So Allmark's back. They're not leaving personally. Also back. Oilers activated Jari and Jake Wallman from LTIR today. Who, Walman's back? Yeah. So Ingram.

Yeah. He's going back. He's got to go to another level, too. Wallman. Yeah. He wasn't great. No. And they paid him like he was great.

Well, they gave him seven by seven. That's seven, I think. Yeah. He was really excited to spend that car and McDavid savings, eh? Yeah. He's like, 70 of you. Echo, man. Roslavik.

Everybody gets the cut. Eric Carlson out two weeks to the lower body injury. The penguin still. hanging around just I think Kyle Dugas wants to just sell Can you guys just start sucking

Just start Please take me off the hook here They have officially fallen out of a Playoff spot And Connor Ingram Since Jari went down He has a 904 and a 270 So he's held them in their head above water

With their goal then it Well Saw someone say that was the best goalie performance They've had all year last Wow Our thanks to Bill Armstrong general manager of Utah in our Leaf Hour edition and then

Darren McCarty, four-time Stanley Cup champion. Rick Dollywa, co-host of Donnie and Dolly on Czech television in Vancouver. Thanks for your contributions. Ten games on tap tonight. Find yours.

And then join us right here back on the Real Kippermborn show. You know, out of all the shows we've done, this one of them. Absolutely. Have a great night, everybody.

Hey, you know what? I don't think the show sucked as bad as I thought it was.