Real Kyper & Bourne - Flames of the Future with Craig Conroy

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by Calgary Flames GM Craig Conroy (3:04) to discuss his team's overall successful start to the season, Dustin Wolf's agility in the net, what makes Rasmus Andersson the team's MVP so far, how his team's performance affects the front office's approach to the trade deadline and future of the franchise, Justin Kirkland's first year with the Flames, and Nazem Kadri's veteran presence in the locker room. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee look at the Ottawa Senators falling back into a familiar November skid and Thatcher Demko's potential imminent return.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome back into the real kipper and born show as we go national live on sports net 650 in vancouver sports net 960 in calgary this hour real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee in a few minutes we'll welcome in craig conroy general Calgary, this hour, Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Craig Conroy, general manager of the Calgary Flames, former NHLer, over 1,000 games in the National Hockey League. I was going to say 1,000 playoff games. Wow.

That's a lot. He's played a few, too. Yeah. I was going to say. Yes, sir. You watched some of that Flames game last night? I did, yeah.

They've got a really good goalie. Their goaltending's been their strength all season long and a big reason why 10-6 looks pretty darn good. Yeah, third in the Pacific. Could any Islanders team look more Islanders-ery

than that Islanders team? Like just the most... Sammy and I were talking about this. They're fine. Everyone's okay. They're the world's most average team. If you brought all their guys, like all their good guys onto an elite team,

they'd be an awesome contributor. Great to have Brock Nelson on your team. Putting them together as a team, it's like, I don't know. Borovac. Yeah, Borovac's really good. And it just seems like every signing that Lou Lamorello's had the last few years is just so they could be that middle, mid-team. Lock up Palmieri.

Got to have him. Go give five years to Lock up Palmieri. Got to have him. Go give five years to JG Paggio. Got to have him. I mean, I don't know if you boys saw my boy Pierre Engvall last night. Looks like he was worth the money. Three goals and three straight. Toe drag. Snapper.

Did you see the beaver tap? Yes. Okay, that was a new NHL record. Puck furthest away from a beaver tap in NHL history. It's the national hockey league. The thing was on the other side of the ice, and he's on the, it's like 100 feet. Near half boards, and he's banging away. And he's banging away, and he got the puck back.

I mean, and guess what he did? Toe drag top corner. It doesn't matter. It's the most embarrassing thing. My son is never going to be a beaver tap guy. Use your voice. You know who loves a beaver tap? Nick Robertson.

Loves a beaver tap. Loves it. It's like, you know, that could be the other team here. Yeah. I just, I hate it. Well, we're going to ask Craig a number of things, including, you know, how much does a team that seems to be in the mix right now kind of sway him on what maybe he thought he'd do long-term to this team? Do you think we could get a GM to admit that the team is doing better

than they had planned to do? We're going to do that right now to Craig Conroy. Because that's... All right, perfect. All right, let's welcome right now to Craig Conroy. Because that's... All right, perfect. All right, let's welcome him in. Craig Conroy, former National Hockey Leaguer, now super general manager of the Calgary Flames. Connor, how are you, bud?

Good. How are you guys doing today? We're good, okay? We're going to hit you right between the eyes here, okay? Because I don't know if you caught any of our conversation before you came on. Okay. But like, come on, how surprised are you that your team's this good right now?

This early. Well, very happy. I mean, you want to, you want to win every game for sure. Really do. But you know,

you see where everybody picked you and where everybody kind of thought you might be before the season and it gives everybody a little motivation especially the older guys you know hey we're better than this you know they got us picked right at the bottom so uh the question mark maybe was goaltending and our goaltending has been excellent up to this point has that been the the the well, I think we'd agree it was the main point, but have there been multiple facets of your game where you've been like, we didn't think we would be this strong here? Well, I think goaltending is definitely, you know,

with losing Markstrom or trading Markstrom, we believe that, hey, we have two good young goalies. They were excited. I mean, you know, you talk to them, everyone else said, well, we don't know what's going to happen. They were just looking to prove themselves. Hey, we're NHL goalies. And now we've got an opportunity with Markstrom gone. So, you know, you didn't know how it was going to work out.

But they've really, right from the day one, they've been battling. And Devin Cooley's been amazing in the American League, too. So, you know, we have – goaltending has really taken off and been a huge difference for us. You know, you'd like our special teams to be better. They were better last night, but they definitely struggled. So if you want to say the goaltending is a positive, the special teams has been a negative so far this year.

So every Tuesday we have Stephen Vallecat come on, whose expertise is goaltending. And he has said on our show that he thinks that Dustin Wolfe's one of the fastest goalies he's ever seen. He describes him as explosive. Now, is that the feedback that you've gotten all these years about what makes him maybe special or different than other goaltenders?

Well, the one thing, he is quick from post to post because he's got to come out a little bit farther, so he's got to live it farther to slide sometimes when he goes across. So, you know, watching him in junior and then seeing him do it in the american league and it's always a little adjustment period for dustin you know he got lit up i remember

the first american league game i was like oh boy this might be a long year and it seems like he just kind of dials himself in and figures it out and figures out where he has to go against different shooters but the other thing he really absorbs pucks well that's the the thing that i like and sometimes he has to come across standing up uh when you're smaller goalie he he somehow reads it and comes across standing up it it's weird how he does it i wouldn't you know most goalies just come they slide across and they're in the butterfly and he can come across actually up on his feet which takes away some of the net for him. Yeah, and he's not stuck in that cursed RVH that way either. He's upright. I like it. Yeah, he is up.

Looking at the offensive side of your guys' game, Rasmus Andersen is leading your team in points. He's playing 25 minutes a night. I know we're talking about the goalies, but this guy has to be in the conversation for your MVP this year. No, he's played amazing. I mean, the one thing with Rasmus, he's such a competitor every game. I mean, he, you know, physical plays hard. So those are a hard, you know, once he plays over 25 minutes,

I always tell him I might be too much. He's like, no, I can play more. So, you know, that's just the way his mind is set. But even last night to score the big goal for us, he loves staring down the crowd. I said, But even last night, to score the big goal for us, he loved staring down the crowd. I said, what happened last night? He goes, I looked in, and Craig, everyone had a Flames jersey on. There wasn't one, you know, wasn't one opposing jersey. So he was looking, and Kadri was actually looking for someone too,

he said, in the pile. So no Islander jerseys in the front row. So he couldn't stare anybody down last night. But he's been excellent. And, you't, couldn't stare anybody down last night, but he's been, he's been excellent. And you know, you think with the four nations coming, he should be definitely in that conversation.

He's he's been, he has been one of our MVPs in the team so far this year. Before we get into specifics on, on UFAs on your hockey club and what to do with them. What is again, a start like this do for you with your mindset on what kind of transition year it's going to be and what ultimately you need to do at the trade deadline

and how it may or may not alter now based on what you've seen so far? I mean, I think we've always had a plan where we need to go. And one of it's to get young guys in, young guys playing, young Coronado. Matt Coronado's been up, you know, we sent him down for one little stint, but he's been up here with Zari, Pospisil, you know, bringing Kevin Ball over. Not that, you know, he's been in the league for a while, but he's still a young guy. We've tried to get those young guys in and we got to continue to do that i mean we've had a great start in the american league uh in a lot so many players you'd like to call everybody up but obviously you can't just uh and we're having success here but at some point we need to give these guys an opportunity also but uh you know for us come trade deadline

i think it's it's status quo we're going to see where this team's at there's a lot of hockey to be played between now and then. And, you know, I think you might have mentioned that we haven't been scoring a ton of goals. And so it puts a lot of pressure on every game's a one goal game right down the stretch. So, you know, we'll see how it goes here. But the plan is, hey, get these young guys in, you know, trading marks from Gabe Wol vladar a chance to to become an nhl starting goalie and we're going to continue to do that with other other players as we move along here well it's almost like pruning a like a tree or something where it gives room for these other branches to grow looking at your team like zari kirkland coronado pospacil like a lot of young guys have you know kind of taken the step to become real contributors for you.

Well, it's been, you know, we've been able to kind of have him play in the minors. Zari was two years in the minors and really get to his game where he was comfortable. And then he got called up and never to be sent down. And I think, you know, I think that people were a little upset this year when I sent Matt down Coronado, it was only for a couple of games, but I'm like, what is going on here? People, he needs a play. He needs, he's a young player. That's what they don't understand. Sometimes they just want to see us put all the young players in, but we want to put it in an environment where

they're, you know, we're competing every night. We might not win every night, but we want to have close games, competitive games, and put these guys in the right position so they succeed moving forward for us. So are you a big member at Costco? Oh, yeah. Love Costco. I'm like, he must be trying to get a deal in there. How does he not have one yet? We got to make it happen. It's fun when he goes out for the shootout, too.

I knew he was good, but, you know, I'm like, oh, it's the NHL. But he's had, you know, two for three, so not bad. But he is making the most out of, again, last night, what, under eight minutes, but finding ways to contribute. 28 years old. It's a nice story. It is. You know what?

And he comes every day with a smile on his face, and he just, he's enjoying it so much, and he's not taking it for granted that, hey, I'm here. You know, I'm guaranteed to be here. I'm working every day. Whether he plays eight minutes or one minute or 20 minutes, he's going to, he's not going to let this thing go. But, you know, the best thing is the other night he jumped in

and had a fight right after, you know, there was a little scrum on the ice. And he's just doing anything he can to stay. I mean, that's, it should send a message to everybody else around the league. To be there, you have to do things maybe that you're not always comfortable with, too. But to see the way he's come in and played for us, it's a great story. He's a great person. When the trade, the Kachuk trade happened, you know, the immediate returns, people had question marks and worries and all that.

And obviously that'll be a conversation for a lot of years. And, you know, the immediate returns, people had question marks and worries and all that. And obviously that'll be a conversation for a lot of years. But Mackenzie Weeger has really become an important piece of what you guys are doing. You know, people talking about him potentially being a guy on Canada's Four Nations faceoff team. He really, he has taken a step over the last year or so, hasn't he? No, he has. I mean, the the one thing it's his all-around game offense defense but he he plays like rasmus anderson the the amount of minutes he plays and the hard minutes he plays in the matchup i mean blocking shots last night you know finishing

checks compete they're not it's not an easy game that he plays but uh you know it seems like ever since he's been here every year he's risen his level a little bit. Obviously scoring 20 goals was amazing last year, but he brings so much more to the game. And a big reason why we're having success night in and night out. You do have a couple of UFAs scenarios. Kuzmenko's got these quick hands that we saw last night. He's UFA.

Like, is there any thought about keeping these guys around or is it just one of those scenarios that you just have to play out the year to get to? Anthony Mantha, very disappointing because he seemed to have gotten off to a good start. And it would have been nice to see what he could have done over the course of the year. But any thoughts about still revisiting signing them longer term? You know, I think you're always open to talking and seeing what everybody's thinking. But again, for us, I think we have to see where we are closer to the trade deadline, where this team kind of is, and, you know, if it's a fit long term.

And that's what's nice right now. We don't have to rush and just do something. We can kind of sit back, watch if it's a fit long term and that's what's nice right now we don't have to rush and just do something we can kind of sit back watch see how the team's going and then and then make those decisions but you're always open to conversations you know I felt bad for because he really was playing so well for us and you know it's just he came he wanted to prove himself and you know Gordie Alhatrick, the first night in Vancouver, definitely endeared himself to the city and the fans right away and the team. And then, fortunately, it was just a freak little thing in Montreal.

And, you know, the ACL surgery, it was disappointing for him, for sure. How much do you believe in vibes? You know, like, over the course of the season positive and negative energy you guys getting off to a good start is that something that affects things for the year or is the end of the day just your roster can only win the amount of wins it's built to win that make sense uh i think the big thing is when we won that first game in vancouver did not look good for us to be able to come back to go down to see the room after, to see the guys, the excitement, it felt great. Like I walked in and I wasn't sure what was going to, you know,

the atmosphere was going to be good, but it was a real belief. And I think now we've played so many games. Obviously, we've come back a lot this year. It's not a recipe for success, but, you know, the guys believe, hey, we can do it. We're not out of the game. We've got to keep it close. Goaltending's been excellent.

They give us a chance every night. Now we've got to, you know, we'd love to get the power play going. And I think with Kuzmenko, we mentioned earlier, when he really gets, you know, if he gets hot, that power play just took off last year. We were the top power play the last, I think, 13 games. We need to get back to maybe not the top power play the last i think 13 games we need to get back to maybe not the top power play in the league but we need to be scoring consistently uh you know it gives us even that much better chance every night gotta ask you about uh cadre and and still what

he's able to bring you uh i know again not to ask you whether or not you'd ever contemplate trading him, but in terms of what he's bringing and what he can still share with some of the younger players, it has to be so valuable for you. Oh, it is. I mean, he is a competitive, he's a warrior out there. I mean, he comes to win every night. He leaves it on. He tries.

Sometimes, you know, you say, oh, you'd like to see him just make the easy play, Cods, but he does some amazing stuff, and he always wants to be a difference maker and help this team win, and he pushes the other guys. He doesn't – he holds everybody accountable. Obviously, I'm not on the bench, but I can see him going at some of the guys, and I thought he did an amazing job, especially with our young guys, Zari and Pospisil last year.

Their game took off and his game really took off. So, you know, he's a veteran leader that, you know, he's not here to lose games. Like that's what he said at the beginning of the year. I'm here, I want to win, and I want to prove everybody wrong. And that's kind of his attitude, which is great for our locker room. Do you read his book? I haven't read it yet i gotta read it though i'm a little nervous what it's gonna say like wouldn't you have uh like maybe suggested save it for the end of your career

and throw us a chapter you thought it was the right time for him. Yeah, no, I've read a couple of her. It does look interesting. It's good. It's a very good book. Good stuff there. We were talking before we had you on to Jesse Granger, who covers the Vegas Golden Knights, about the Pacific Division.

What are your thoughts on the division this year? Some years weaker than others, stronger than others. How do you see things around you guys? Well, I mean, we know it was going to be hard coming in you have obviously edmonton's the odds on favorite leading going into the season you have vegas you know and even the young teams i i think la is off to a great start you know the san jose's and anaheim's are not easy games they've added players their their younger players are coming along. So Seattle's always a battle with us. So we feel like it's a strong division.

Obviously, there's a couple elite teams, and we're trying to stay in that mix as long as we can to give us a chance down the stretch here. Did I ever tell you guys that I called Craig Conroy one year during his career and told him he got traded? No. Really?

How did that come to be? Presumably you weren't the GM. I'm telling you, it was horrible. I was literally sitting in the, we were filling, we had back-to-back games. We'd played, I think, Detroit the night before flew in from st louis the the deadline was over though and i think as a player we woke up from our nap and we're kind of ready we're looking at who got traded and my the phone rings and it's kipper and i he said what do you think about the trades and i thought he was talking about doug wait and keith kachuk trades

coming to st louis he goes no I'm talking about your trade I'm like I'm not trading he goes uh can I call you back oh my gosh I'm like five minutes Larry and Joel called me up to the room and I knew I was traded I just didn't know where because I don't think you told me Kipper where I was trading yeah just that I was treated. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm like, like my first thought was you need to talk to somebody there. And I'm sorry about breaking the news, but Hey, those were the days back there.

And for sure. But the good news is you're not going anywhere. Now, if I call you, it's not to tell you you're backing up and moving. Craig, thanks for doing this, man.

Thanks for having me, guys. Really appreciate it. Thanks for your time. Craig Conroy is doing a fabulous job with the Calgary Flames who remain in the thick of things. You know, like if they kept going like this, I don't know, maybe Adi. What would you do with Rasmus Anderson? And if I'm not mistaken, he's got one more year.

But what would I do? Those guys. I would beg him to trade him for the least for nothing. he's got one more year. But what would I do? Those guys. I would beg him to trade him for the least or nothing. That's what I would do. He's now in a position to ask July 1st for a long-term extension. And Calgary says what? Rasmus Anderson is 28 years old, and he is awesome. He's making $4.5 million this year and next.

If I were the GM, Rasmus Andersen would be committing to my team for the next six years? I think six for sure. If he wants seven or eight, he can push it. But he controls out there. He's got the bomb for the shot that we saw last night he's a tank and he's a you know he what i love that conroy mentioned so much is a lot of these guys they're competitive on that team wieger competes and anderson competes and kajik competes and they got a lot of guys zari and coleman and they just they work hard and they got a lot of guys, Zari and Coleman. They just work hard. And they got a really good goalie right now.

Yeah. There was a play that Anderson made. I don't know what point of the game it was. It was on a penalty kill. And he just eats a slapper, like, right in the foot. And it clearly kills him. He's like, oh, he goes down to, like, touch it. And then he sees a guy going to the front of the net.

He just hobbled over, hammers his stick, like, as hard as he possibly he possibly can then hobbles back to the bench after i'm like yeah you that's the type of guy you love i will say the looking through the like leafs or sorry the flame stats before we talk to conroy plus minus people think whatever they think about it and it depends on who you play and the top lines often play tougher competition but you go through that team pretty much everyone's a plus matt coronado is plus seven a lot of guys the top pluses play tougher competition, but you go through that team, pretty much everyone's a plus. Matt Coronado's plus seven. A lot of guys at the top, pluses. Kadri's minus 10.

He's just a random minus 10. You got Sharon Govich at minus seven, then only a couple other guys are even minuses at all. That's strange to me. That stands out as some sort of, he's a good defensive player. Yeah. 10 points in 19 games. He's having a rocky start.

Getting, like you mentioned, the top minutes. Probably playing against every team's top line. They're not that great a team. And he's playing the top lines. And he's the top defensive center. So he's probably eating a crap sandwich most nights for his competition. Absolutely. The only thing that continues to sting and not to harp, but Jonathan Huberto cannot ever find the magic that he had in Florida

on pace, I think, for 25 goals and maybe 40 points. But this is a guy that's 10 and a half. 10 and a half large. And I don't know how you get around that. He only makes it for a couple more seasons, right? Is it two more? Oh, my God. I think it's seven more. Seriously, what is it?

He makes it until 2030. 10 and a half. 2031. 10 and a half? Yeah, he makes 10 and a half for six more seasons. One, two, three, four, 5, 6, 7 more seasons. How do you get around that? You don't. You pay him 10 and a half

million. You pay him 10 and a half million. You just hope he's effective enough that you're Like even if they ate 50% of it, I'm not sure anybody would want him for 5 to 5. Oh, I mean, yeah. But you're right. I get your point. Like I don't love him at 7. Like 5 to 5, I'd do it for yeah. But you're right. I get your point. Like, I don't love him at 7.

Like, 5-2-5, I'd do it for sure. But, you know, he's... Would you? Yeah. No. Six goals, four assists, 10 points. I don't know. It all depends on my team. He's playing 18...

He also... Is he playing 18 minutes a night? Like, it's remarkable. You know, that Florida... You have outlier seasons in guys' careers. Yeah. But that's, like. Has anyone ever had one?

30 goals, 85 assists, 115 points in 80 games for him that year. And then it's. In 85, yeah. And then it's gone. He had a 92-point season, though. Yeah. Yeah. But they were just.

That year, that 115 year. I mean. Was it him, Barkov? Yeah, they were just free-willing. Yeah. Yeah. But they were just, that year, that 115 year, I mean. Was it him, Barkov? Yeah, they were just freewheeling, you know, all over the ice. It's unbelievable. Massive. And then he went 15 and 40, 12 and 40 for goals and assists. Like, eish. And he played the same amount of games that dropped from 115 to 55 is,

got to be unprecedented for a guy who was healthy both years. But I do, I i you know i do whenever i watch the flames uh kuzmenko does jump out to me you can play you're gonna say he's on the ice no no no kuzmenko jumps out to me he can play i love that play coleman that's a guy that a lot of teams would love to have around play all the time but coleman coleman's valuable to them yes every team he's's won Stanley Cups. We know what a third line does for a Stanley Cup championship team. How long is he under contract?

This year and two more at 4.9. He's the exact guy that you want in your bottom six. Not at 4.9, though. So much money. You have to retain there. What's he got left? This and two more. Two more.

Age 33 and 34 but if i'm conroy like i think the guy that you have on your two guys on your team right now and and huberdo but like you can guarantee will be there when you're competing for a cup would probably be anderson dustin wolf like who else is on that list that's what well he is yeah but outside of him who else is on that list cadre i guess is going to be there. That's what he is. But outside of him, who else is on that list? Kadri, I guess, is there for a long time. I think he's actually like Zari. Yeah, yeah. Those guys, for sure.

I just, you know, I would be very, very, very open for business on anyone other than, like, my young studs with them. Right? Well, Anderson and Kadri would fetch you a boatload. Do you think Kadri's trading? Oh. Yeah. Seven mil?

100%. This year, plus four more seasons yeah yeah i think 34 yep even if you got calgary to eat a million million and a half if you start talking about serious assets like first rounders and blue chip prospects this is the guy that could get half a dozen teams over the hump for Stanley Cup. You think he would fetch assets like that? Yeah, I do. I do.

I just don't like that much. I think he's just, he's one of the most competitive guys. I love the player. He knows how to win. Yeah, he's competitive. It's so funny. I think he can fetch. Covering the Leafs and being like,

God, that just sounds like a good third-line center for the Leafs, doesn't it? And you would take them at five, five and a half. They traded them at four and a half. Right? For what again? Barry and Kerfoot. Ouch.

Yeah. Kip? Do you see that as a potential Leaf option? I see that for half a dozen teams, an option. If you can get Calgary to eat just a little bit and give them something that really excites them, you have to think about it. Like the window, again, Calgary's scenario

is really about getting to the new building. 2027. You want to peak. When you get into the new building. 2027. You want to peak. Yeah. When you get into that new building and you start jacking up those prices, you want a competitive team then. Can I tell you what I'd be doing if I was Conroy then? I think you need to start moving pieces now.

You're too good. You need a top guy. You need to pick in the top five next year. Yeah, you got to get Gavin McKenna on your team. That's what you got to do. You need to pick in the top five next year you gotta get gavin mckenna on your team that's what you gotta do you need like the top stud and right now you just keep winning you're like god we're gonna stop 19 stop it guys it does not help the plan no anyways i hate that system that it's a bad warns you for tanking, for purposely losing. Fix it then.

It just sucks. Fix it. Kip shit? Yeah, what's the fix? Gold system. Gold system? Reward people for points after they've been mathematically eliminated from playoffs. And they can declare themselves out.

Wow. Yeah. So you're trying to win every game. The more points you get after you're out, and the bad teams are out first, right? So that gives them a little bit of an edge to get there. But, you know, it's going to incentivize guys on that team. They're going to be like, oh, let's play hard when they're third, last in the league.

Problem is, jobs are tough to come by. And if you're not playing hard. They're like, God, I've got to play hard for what? I just can't see a ton of guys not trying to win. I mean, that's the league. It's a good league everybody's trying. I got no answer right now. Nothing? Nothing. No, I was all right.

That's not even close to my idea. But I think that's the best probably option that you have. Anyways, game time, boys? Yes. Alright. Let me get my sheet here. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365.

Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. So you mentioned that the Toronto Maple Leafs would be huge underdogs tonight. Yes. You would be wrong. The Vegas Golden Knights and Toronto Maple Leafs are both minus 110 on both sides of the ledger here. Oh, smash that vegas listen i don't tell you how to

spend your money but i list leafs have surprised us in the past but this would be a really surprising one it seems like excellent value for a deep vegas team that's coming in here playing well give me a little bit of a the vegas money line with that number um looking at the goal scoring if you want to bet on they don't have it up i was gonna say bet on a grubank and golf but they don't with that number. Looking at the goal scoring, if you want to bet on, they don't have it up, I was going to say bet on a Grebankan goal, but they don't have it up,

so I'm not going to say, just for a first career game. This is rare. You don't see this very often. The Dallas Stars home to the San Jose Sharks are a minus 525 favorite on the money line. We never get into the fives. Yeah, the San Jose Sharks plus 390. My Sharkies.

For a simple win. That means you could probably get the Sharks plus a goal and a half and still get this money. Yeah, so there you go. There's a big one for you. The other games tonight aren't exactly the most inspiring. National Predators in Seattle to take on the Kraken. National big favorites there, minus 140.

And the late one on Sportsnet. The Buffalo Sabres are in L. in LA to take on the Kings. An elite jersey matchup, if I do say so myself. The Buffalo Sabres are plus 150, LA Kings minus 180 in that one. Two cents on the Buffalo Sabres. They're not dead. They're not dead yet in the Atlantic Division. Five teams are currently below 500 in the Atlantic.

To get up to that fourth spot they need like a win what the sends man sends come on as of yesterday as of yesterday the boston brewers still had a playoff spot too at a 0.475 winning percentage minus 21 goal differential remember when i said this was the best division in all of sports beside the al east yeah they've been wrong on that one anyways that was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play this to odds, and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. Okay, we'll pick up a little bit on that theme that you just left us and what's going on in Ottawa. They looked so good last week against the Toronto Maple Leafs, and now it's like, who are they? They've stunk since. November is their kryptonite.

Also, we'll follow up a little bit on the question mark still in Vancouver around JT Miller and what it means to the Vancouver Canucks. Maybe a little Demko sound from today. Got plenty more. Don't go away. It's a real Kipper and Bourne show. Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning.

We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning, 6 to 9. It's the Fan Morning Show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. A little bit of news and notes. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Sammy, what is with the Ottawa Senators and the month of November?

Sorry, I was just doing some producing as well as actually talking on the show because I am the producer. You do it all. Do it all. What's the saying? Master of few. Jack of all trades. Yeah, Jack of all trades, master of few.

I don't know what the hell he's saying. Is that going to be? Now Derek's buzzing in my hair. What's he talking about? He's the same thing. Anyways, listen to this record. This is from the piece on sports.

I thought CA last night, 12, 29 and two in November since 21, 22. Wow. Tough to be competitive in the standings doing that. 12-29-2. Like, listen, the Leafs record in November

over the past few years, I asked Sportsnet Stats to fire it on. They haven't fired it on long to me yet, but I'll say it's very good. And to have heartbreak in April, you have to play well in November. And that's where the Leafs are at. The Leafs always play great in November.

And the Sens, it kills them. That puts you right underwater. Talking my buddies ascends fan i was saying like at least you're gonna get to enjoy this full season like a chase for the playoffs the bruins are no good the door is open you're gonna be in that mix and it's like just grab it just do it and get some goaltending one of the things in that article by Alex Adams on Sportsnet, you're welcome, is that they give up goals in bunches. Six times this year, they've given up two goals, kind of within a couple minutes of each other or closer. Just Brady Kachuk called them immature.

Maybe immature, he said. You watch the way they played against the Leafs on that Tuesday night. They can do it. They can do it. Unbelievable. You watch the way they played against the Leafs on that Tuesday night. They can do it. They can do it. It was unbelievable. That's the part that probably is pulling Travis Green's hair out right now is that you can look like that and then be at home last night. I get they're the Stanley Cup finalists, but they're still on a back-to-back and as travis green said

not a lot of energy not sharp with execution like flat wake why it's a great question but i don't know that i do not know go ahead what would you change kachuk stutzel batherson norris like ridley greg all like top picks yeah like is is the mix not right now is the chemistry not right these are these are top quality young players yeah it's funny like you can see that they recognize the thing that i think when i see this team you know they don't feel like a particularly gritty tough group and the bottom six they've added it's you know mckeown and nick cousins and amadio and david perron like they're trying to surround these guys with those guys with an edge and norris is a guy who can finish his checks and all that.

But obviously Brady can chuck too. But it just feels like they're missing a little something. They're missing a piece or two. Tons of talent on the back end with Sanderson, Shabbat. Can I give you Linus Allmark's numbers in 10 games started this year? I think we have the answer, folks. A 2-9-9 goals against and an 8-84 save percentage, boys. In 10 games started.

He's not, I think, produced a 900 save percentage. That's tough. Yeah, it's tough to win when your goalie's having a tough time. But, you know, going into this year, we had Valaket on saying, in a different environment, he's not as sure he'd be able to thrive. It's very possible that he finds it, but so far he hasn't found it, and it's just like, what would you call him, higher-paid Corpus Allo? Yeah, I said it earlier this year, and I'll say it again.

They traded Corpus Allo and then signed new Corpus Allo for double the price. Stuff. Sorry, Sens fans, if you're listening, but it's not great. Tomorrow night, they're going to welcome in Vegas. Vegas, another situation with coming out of Toronto, like Edmonton last night, where they faced them. You have to go back to Ulmer. Ulmark, yeah.

Ulmark, sorry. Ulmark tomorrow night. You have to. You have to. We need you to figure this out. And quickly. Yeah. Well, you can't bench him.

You made a big sign and you paid him all this money you gotta keep running him out like how what's the most games he's played in a year it is another thing if you're saying now you're gonna play 60 or something you know it's yeah i agree that you gotta keep running and then saturday all mark again against vancouver just keep hitting the button just keep hitting hitting it. Hitting the Allmark button until he finds it. Allmark. Allmark. 8.25. Allmark. 8.25. Allmark.

I hope they figure it out because they can make the playoffs this year. 884 is. Don't talk about. Playoffs? Like shockingly bad. But I will say overall, like when I look at my fancy sport logic charts, they don't produce as much as you'd like them to offensively. And they give up more than you'd like to defensively.

It's not just, you know, they're not like this flawless team. The Oilers look amazing by the fancy stats, and they just can't get saves. The Sens don't look amazing by the fancy stats. His job is to make sure his salary doesn't match his save percentage. 8-2-5. 8-2-5. He's heading in the wrong direction for that.

I will say, good win for the Oilers They Second half of back-to-back We talked about it yesterday in game time They needed it And they went in there and Looked like a team that could go to the final It was unbelievable What did Bouchard undress?

Was that Shabbat? Yeah That was the old no-move move Where you're like I'm gonna do something with it Nah We're just past you It's just Connor Could score Like the year he just scored 60 Just because That was the old no-move move where you're like, I'm going to do something with it. Nah, we're just past you. It's just Connor could score.

Like, the year he just scored 60 just because he wanted to. You see him last night, just fires it top shelf. It's like, what? Why do you do that all the time? He's like, I'll just get 100 assists. All right. Are we expecting Demko to play this weekend? I don't know, boys. I listened to, because during the break there i was

grabbing some of the audio because he spoke today oh good so this is okay so derrick if you get the clip one for me i'll explain it he was asked if like he's ready to let himself think that he's gonna start was the way the question was worded so play clip one for us eric uh no not yet i mean i'm a i'm a day-to-day guy i think you have to be um admittedly through the process i i slipped into the you know the future seeking mindset and it never really ended up too well for me so um just sticking with it day by day and you know i definitely know that i'll be playing here. You know, I can't give you a timeline yet, but I'll definitely be back and, yeah, just enjoying being where I'm at today

and keep making progress from home. I didn't like how quickly he came out at the beginning of that comment with, no, no, not yet. Yeah, no, he knew he was not close. Yeah. Like, I listened to that here. I was surprised by the tone of it.

I'm with you. We thought, because remember we mentioned it before the show yesterday, and I'd been texting with Valley about him maybe starting last night against the Rangers, and you listen to that. I would have preferred, I'm close. I'm real excited. I can't wait. Just waiting to get the nod or waiting for the right time you can tell

it's been hard on him though like you can hear someone who has worked with a sports psychologist when he's like uh you know yeah i've fallen into the future seeking mindset and it's not like you know i got seeking mindset that's something a psychologist says for sure which is great i'm sure he's got the sense like i don't know what i'm gonna come back to right i can't put myself somewhere that's gonna make this even harder for me so i'm just gonna try to exist in the moment and there's a second four hours there's a second clip which includes the question which kind of alludes to what we've been talking about on our show in terms of pain management and what he's going to be going so play the clip two there derek and to get to this point was it just you

had to sort of learn to manage how it feels is it just no um we we had to use different modalities um to get the function up uh it wasn't a you know an adaptation of my style of play or and i knew it wouldn't be. Shortly after Penticton, we really nailed down what the issue was specifically, which was nice to finally kind of understand what was going on. That gave us a clearer picture of different options that we had moving forward. It was kind of just trial and error at that point, and we ended up finding something that worked really well for me.

That's positive. Penticton is beautiful. Thank you. I love Penticton. I got something out of that. What did you take from that? That they know exactly what it is and it's manageable and they've got a game plan and we

were clear-minded on the issues which is far better than we don't know what the hell's going on good listening to those clips not your typical grunt athlete i literally waiting to say i got modalities adaptation and functionality out of that i got a college kid i heard a kid but that's great that you know if they can at least pin that down because it has felt you know here in toronto everyone's pulling out their hair over matthews and the uncertainty you know it's felt a little bit like what is happening here yeah yeah and that's kind of leads us to jt miller because this is like the second what is happening scenario

for the Vancouver Canucks. And I think it's safe to say that we don't expect them back anytime soon. No, okay. I don't know. You think that's safe to say? I don't know. I don't think you leave for personal reasons and come back four days later yeah you're right and that's what that's

yeah four days later five days later maybe a week but right now he's on like a a day-to-day injury type of scenario right like his his his salary's still on the books, the cap, right? They're not getting any relief off of his salary cap. And when you go on long-term IR, then you do. Until then, you're just leaving a hole in your salary cap by being gone my point in all of this is if if there's an extended period of time that he's out they're gonna want to watch they're gonna need or want some of that relief and i and to my knowledge it only comes when there's something definitive going on i.e like mental health break through the nhlpa uh program yeah so you couldn't get

cap relief for a personal leave without no sort of like no or else everybody would do it we know he's not but everybody would do it right right it's like oh yeah i see your point yeah you just say hey we're looking for some cap relief here so can we expect if it is a mental break that he needs needs that the NHL PA would eventually say it. They put them retroactive on long-term IR, which players do once they're in any type of program. And then you can move on. Yeah. But right now it's like,

he can't go day to day and be out for two or three weeks and, and think that the Vancouver Canucks are okay. Leaving his salary on the books. You know, I don't know about that. You know, like, I understand you would like to have the cap relief if you're going to use it, but if they know, which they do, they're going to wait for him to come back. If it's a week, sure.

But if it's longer. Even if it's two months, Kip, don't you think they're going to hold their hands and wait for him to come back? No, they are going to wait for him to come back, but I'm saying that this is a team that could probably use the long-term IR relief that it puts on your cap. Yeah. So do you expect that we will hear something in the next week

that clarifies this? I think there's still a possibility, and we're all just speculating here. I have no knowledge on what is going on, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's still some type of announcement coming

through the NHL Players Association if in fact he does need some type of break. Okay, so we'll await that. Keep our eye ears and eyes wish him the best while we kind of await to see what develops there gotta say boys really impressive win for the jets last night yeah after getting thumped by florida in florida by the way florida has i want to say

six or seven of these back-to-back sets this year, maybe even more. It was a good game, and I did watch enough where I said, maybe a Stanley Cup final right there. Oh, you think the Jets? Oh, no. I saw a playoff type of intensity last night. Yeah. I thought it was really good.

There's a lot to like, and, you know, Shifley is a guy who's you know really elevate his game he is now i would say would you say firmly a team canada guy uh on our website jacob stoller hit uh jets mark shifley belongs on team canada at four nations face off as the headline it was the front page on our website i I agree. Okay. How could you not? He's on mine. Yeah. Hattrick last night, nice goal. See, for me, he almost would kind of be that, like he could play a role like John Tavares did in Vancouver in 2010,

where it's like we know in the island you were the number one centerman for them, but we need you to come in here and play left wing on the third line. Tons of guys score for us. We're just, we need you to be all around great and not make that your number one. Shifley could play that role. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too.

Depth guy. And he's, he was a world juniors guy for Canada. He's got pedigree. You need some meat, real meat, to go up against those Kachuk brothers. You need something. Are you talking about Wilson or Hyman or who? Somebody.

You want Wilson? Somebody. I'm more convinced now than ever that those two together will be nothing but trouble. The Bash brothers. Those two guys are aligned. You're lying up thinking about... I mean, you probably could consider it. The Bash brothers. Those two guys are in a line. You can't build your lineup thinking about. I mean, you probably could consider it.

Oh, no. Was Tom Wilson going to go out there and beat them both up? Like, you know, him sitting on the bench while Matthew. There's no physical. Good point too, Vorni. I'm not expecting dropping gloves beat up, but I'm just talking about like fight fire with fire. I'd rather fight fire and play in their end i get your point though kevin it's i'm just gonna be you know i worry about

the way matthew's perception would be in this city with him playing well for usa i imagine what you're listening to what does that mean like it's just that he's gonna go play well for america and he's gonna have a big moment against canada well no but it's different if austin matthews was canadian you know as a canadian a canadian hockey fan i would love him that much more and like him as an american playing against canada that sucks but can you imagine defending brady kachuk an Ottawa fan? Like, he's a way worse type of guy to have to cheer for after the way he's going to act wearing a USA sweater. There's no comparison.

There's no comparison. I mean, that USD. They're going to hate him for two weeks, and then they're going to love him the next day when he returns. Could you put the Kachuks on Matthew's wings? Let them both play wing? Put Quinn Hughes and maybe like McAvoy? He's not playing the Four Nations face-off.

He's playing for Germany. I didn't get to know Euros. Just relax. No. Take a chill pill. Everything's fine. Ever. You know, just like Brad said.

He flew to Germany because his back feels totally great. Yeah, it seems unlikely, doesn't it? He's playing next week, and you will have worried for nothing. So Sportsnet is set to broadcast the Four Nations face-off roster reveal on December 4th. That'll be at 6.30 p.m. Eastern. Sweden and Finland's rosters will be revealed earlier in the day, and then you'll get to see Canada and the United States reveal their squad.

So before that, at some point, fellas, we're going to have to put together ours, right? You're going to have to go through it. Is Marner on yours? Of course. He's probably going to play on the top line. That will help his contract negotiations. I actually had him with McDavid.

Yeah. I like him. I mean, I with McDavid. Yeah. I like any of them together. I truly like any of them together. I just think their forward group's going to be unbelievable and it's going to be cool to see it. I'm really excited. I know you guys don't think Buddy, I'm excited. I just want

Canada's goalie to stop a couple pucks. I'm just looking forward to taking two weeks off during it. You're going to be in the common island. I'm just looking forward to taking two weeks off during it. You're going to be in the Cayman Islands somewhere? We don't have to work during that, do we? You've got to talk to some people if you don't want to. I've got it in my deal. I don't have to work during it.

Our beloved boss, Ryan Fabro, is in Mexico right now. Right now would be the perfect time to call him and ask. Yeah, yeah. It's the afternoon. It's the afternoon. It's the pool. He's way smarter than us right now. Perfect time

to call him. We got Leafs Vegas tonight. Give us a score. Vegas 6, Leafs 2. 4-2 Vegas. We'll be my pick tonight. Let's see what's going on. Nashville at Seattle?

What do you like? Nashville coming on? I like my bed. I like my bed. Sorry. Do you? That was harsh. Sabres Kings, I'll watch.

Our thanks to Jesse Granger in the first hour and Craig Conroy, general manager of the Calgary Flames. Enjoy your Wednesday night. We're back tomorrow on Real Kipper and Bourne. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.