Real Kyper & Bourne - Free Agency Fallout

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off with reactions to a busy weekend in Leafs land, breaking down the signings of Ryan Reaves, Tyler Bertuzzi, John Klingberg and Max Domi one by one.  Then, the team's free agency losses, how the additions fill those departing roles, the possibility of trading William Nylander for a defencemen and the clock ticking on extensions for him and Auston Matthews. Leafs Nation's Gord Stellick joins the conversation (43:44) and highlights the importance of adding loud voices to the Leafs' quiet locker room, which departure Leafs fans will miss the most and the team's goalie conundrum with Ilya Samsonov still unsigned. Next up, NHL Network's Brian Lawton shares his thoughts on the lack of term handed out this year, Ryan O'Reilly's unceremonious exit and early winners and losers from free agency (1:07:12). The guys close with a chat about some of the bigger deals around the league, the O'Reilly situation and Kyle Dubas' first free agency with the Pens.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Real Kipper and Bourne on location and more importantly, the next two hours. A two-hour show. Full-fledged show, JB. You're on one side of North America. I'm on the other side, but we are bringing it to the people. Leaf fans woke up Friday. Or I'm sorry, they woke up Free Agency Day much differently than they woke up on the Friday.

Yes. And a much different look to the Toronto Maple Leafs. We're going to get into that for the next two hours. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick, who's somewhere in the building, we believe. And, of course, Sammy McKee. Have we got Sammy yet, Derek? I think Sammy is not with us yet.

There you go. We can't go two hours without Sammy. Hey, there's Sammy. He is in the building. All right, guys. We knew that the system was strained. No question. The system was strained, no question, when it came to the salary cap and the effects of COVID and a cap that has not seen any strength over the last few years in terms of raising,

really came to fruition. What surprised me, actually, guys, and we'll start with you, JB, is that I didn't think we'd see as many deals as we did. Granted, the money and the term was not there for many guys, including ones that are now members of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but there are still teams very aggressive on the weekend. You know, like years ago on free agency day, it was always the day that GMs ruined their salary cap down the road

and ruined their teams because they had space and they spent space. But with the way the cap is now, it feels like it's almost advantage NHL teams. There's so many one-year and two-year deals signed that I think you would call prove-it deals before the salary cap is supposed to go up. This is not a July 1st where I think the teams burn themselves. A lot of teams got guys that they're taking a flyer on that they're low-risk for term and pretty cheap.

So a lot of deals, as you mentioned, but I think it actually worked out pretty well for most teams here. I personally cannot believe that the Leafs got John Klingberg, Tyler Bertuzzi, and Max Domi on one-year deals, and Ryan Reeves got three. To me, that is one of the most insane sort of... Some of the contracts that got ahead ended out were

somewhat surprising like i think calorn to the ducks is a surprising one i thought the dubious contract that he gave to jari was pretty crazy but like yeah i was really surprised by a lot of the contracts on july 1st and july 2nd for that matter and i think i would start with tyler bertuzzi i know we're gonna get into that but that one was the one to me that shocked me the most in terms of what he signed for. In the old days, he gets five times five and a half easy. Yeah. You can't give somebody what you don't have,

and the Leafs don't have term to give, and they don't have excessive dollars to give past next year. So it is what it is. I'm not so much caught up, Sammy, in three years for Ryan Reeves. I think it's at that point where anytime you're in the ballpark of a million dollars, you can find ways to buy out, bury. It's not really a three-year deal if you want to get out of it and someone mentioned to me that there might be some some different ways that the Leafs can get out from underneath that contract

if they need to so I'm not I'm not worried about Ryan Reeves having a three-year deal and also I think you know Sammy you talk about those. I think you see three guys in Bertuzzi, Domi, and Klingberg who are looking for a longer-term, higher-value deal while Reeves is getting all he can, you know, on the way out, basically. So different reasons, right? Yeah, and I don't want to paint myself in the corner of not liking the Ryan Reeves contract because I am absolutely thrilled to have Ryan Reeves in the Leafs,

but it was just shocking to see him get three and other people's get one. Like, you know, lucic got one for one year and i was like okay that's surprising but like you said he's probably taken one to maybe get a bigger one next year potentially okay i want to start with the ryan reeves uh signing for no other reason it seemed to have set a tone for leaf fans coming out of the gate. A lot of talk from the insiders, including our Elliot Friedman, that suggested that Ryan Reeves was going to become a Toronto Maple Leaf even before free agency officially opened. And just the tone after hearing about Ryan Reeves,

that you guys felt one way or another. Because I do believe once Ryan Reeves and Klingberg came out, there wasn't a ton of positive vibes coming out of Leafland, right? You are bang on. Yeah, like a lot of people were watching five prominent names leave the roster only to be filled by Klinberg and Ryan Reeves. And just that pause or that delay before getting to Bertuzzi and Domi and how it made you guys feel. Sammy, why don't you start? Because it really struck a nerve with Leaf Nation. Yeah, and JD and I recorded a podcast on the Saturday night after the two signings and all the guys going out the door for the Leafs. And I said some things on there that I'd probably like to take back

after day two of free agency. Which is common on our show, right? Yes, and it's common for me. I'm a weathervane, fellas. I'm a fan, after all. I get kind of fired up about certain things. But I think the perception, listen, like I always talk about, I have a ton of Leaf fan friends in my life,

and the perception was bad, fellas. No one was impressed with day one of free agency, and I was among them. I thought that the Klingberg deal was like, no one was impressed with day one of free agency. And I was among them. I thought that the Klingberg deal was weird. And I thought the Ryan Reeves thing going out and prioritizing him was weird. But yeah, I think the perception flipped immediately. So I'll get your take on it, Borny. But it's just the perception flipped.

And maybe it's a good message not to get too, you know, overexcited on day one of free agency. Yeah, I'd say that my, you know, my thoughts are nothing to me can be viewed without the lens of the recent Leafs drama, which is Kyle Dubas leaving. And there was a sense that, oh no, we've gone back to this, you know, whether it's David Clarkson or Matt Martin or whichever guy you want to, you know, okay, we're, we're not the team that's going to make the smart, efficient deals. We're going to be the, oh, we need to go grab a chemistry and tangibles guy.

You know, the other aspect of that is I think there is some, because of the way the chronology of the whole thing work, people view the Ryan Reeves things as having been prioritized. But to me, it's more that Bertuzzi and Domi are such more valuable players they probably had a lot more options and a lot more to consider and you know were they as readily available as Reeves maybe that's a harder you know maybe they get done quicker so I don't think that the way it unfolded played out in Tree Living's favor I think if he gets Bertuzzi Domi day one the next day he supplements with Reeves and Klingberg, he's getting a lot more applause at this point. Yeah, I think you bring up. You go and do something like this.

And totally redeem yourself. That's a nice drop there for sure. It's so true. It is. It is. And the bigger picture is, I think, for Leaf fans, is the message that Ryan Reeves had sent everybody, is that the team needed some upgrade in the jam department. And there's no one that makes more noise on and off the ice than Ryan Reeves. He's got his reputation. It's loud on and off the ice than a Ryan Reeves. He's got his reputation.

It's loud on and off the ice. And this, this was a, a team for, for Brad tree living or Brendan Shanahan. Maybe he just read that, uh, got to the point where he,

he said, this team's too vanilla, right? And they want some noise and that's what ryan reeves brings them first and foremost but i am curious if that's going to be welcomed the way so in the past the reputation this core is too quiet i know neil anders a pretty quiet guy matthew's quiet guy i don't know you know the other you know tavar is obviously too so that's been their reputation and they've gone out and addressed that before right they brought in joe thornton

who's a big personality guy um they brought ryan reeves who talks jason spetz as a talker these are all these or ryan o'reilly i meant to say and jason spetz all these personality guys here's the thing the three guys i just named thornton o'reilly Spezza, big pedigree. And that core, the Leafs would have said, these are guys who have been there, potential Hall of Fame level guys. Are they going to be okay with Ryan Reeves coming in and talking, talking, talking, being the noise guy if he dresses 62 times and plays 10 minutes? I am curious to know how the Reeves noise factor,

as has kind of been talked about, is welcomed by the people who play a lot. Fellas, do we want to hear his clip on what he thought his role would be in Toronto? Because it's pretty fascinating what he had to say. Yeah. All right. Let's go to it. Well, I think, you know, I don't ever come into a locker room shy or quiet. You know, I tend to come in and start chirping people right away, just kind of get that over with.

But, you know, I think for me, you know, I don't play a lot of minutes. I don't score a ton of goals. So a lot of, you know, what I do is a physical play, you know, making sure guys, you know, feel safe on the ice and, you know, chirping, getting in guys' space. But, you know, off the ice, you know, for me, I take that very seriously. You know, I like to plan the parties. I like getting the boys together. I like getting together on the road.

I tend to drag everybody. You know, if somebody, you know, tends to not come to, you know, events, sometimes I tend to just make sure everybody's there because it's really important. The best teams I've been on are the guys that, the teams that everybody is together all the time off the ice. The worst teams I've been on is when you have little cliques that hang out together and, you know, you never really get the full group together.

So I'm not exactly sure what the locker room is. I heard it's quiet, but I don't know if it's cliquey or whatever. So if it is, then we can address it. If not, then, you know, I've know if it's clicky or whatever so uh if it is and we can address it if uh if not then you know i've heard it's a great locker room so um you know i think i'm just going to make sure that everybody's together all the time and and dragging guys into you know whatever whatever we need to do to feel like a complete team that's that's a lot to absorb there, guys. I gotta be honest. It's a fascinating clip. It is. Um, you want to get right into it now, or you just want to talk about, uh, uh, No, let's get into it.

How much is, uh, yeah, I mean the value. Okay. This is what the value that, uh, I see out of him is it's a long 82-game season. Milan Lucic just went back into the division with Boston. Tanner Janot could easily be a problem on many nights in the same division with Tampa Bay. Drawing a blank here. Montreal's tough guy there on defense.

Jacques. There you go. Another guy that he could be toe to toe with on, on a lot of nights versus the Montreal Canadians. So there there's value there. The danger for me. And we had spoken last week about Ryan Reeves and, you know, I've, I've known that role.

I've played it throughout my career, and it's a fine line. And sometimes a guy like that can come in and have a great positive impact. Other times he can wear on other guys as well. Yes. And I've mentioned it before that those guys tend to suck a lot of oxygen out of the room. And you really, it's like a comedian to me. Like sometimes your material can work with a certain audience and sometimes it can't. And you better know your audience really well and read them before you come in there thinking that my jokes are going to be 100% great,

and I'm going to drag everybody into laughter. And, you know, his comments about dragging everybody into whatever he wants isn't a given. It's not a given. And, you know, the ones that tend to be dragged in are the ones that are really willing to come in and be a part of that. And he's going to have to read his audience. In this case, he's going to have to read his dressing room. I think that's really well put. This is a fairly well-established, well-paid group of individuals with a ton of individual accolades. Whether you look at what Marner and Matthews and Tavares, all those guys individually have done over their careers.

I understand they haven't won a Stanley Cup, but neither has Ryan Reeves. So I think it's important for him to come in and show buy-in to the core and the group and being a part of the team rather than saying let me show you how i like to do it we're all going to flood rockers and everyone's like listen man i got three kids you know i'm going to bed on the road like you know you got i agree that it's a fine line he's got three years he should probably take his time working his way in yeah and i'm sure there's a lot of team well i'm just i was gonna say to you kipper i'm sure like i have no information but i'm sure there's a few teammates along the way with ryan reeves that were probably pretty happy to see him go like our locker room is full of guys

with different personalities that you know like you said it's it's the audience thing you know you can try to be the hoopla guy but if one guy doesn't want to hear it, one guy doesn't want to listen, he's not going to change the way he feels about you. So it's a fine line. You're right. But I, I think it's pretty clear here. And I'll get your take on this fellas that Brad true living in his exit meetings. And we talk about how much he talks to people and all the different,

like he's downstairs, not upstairs. I think it's pretty clear with these signings that have been made with Domi, with, with Reeves to a lesser extent for Tuesday, that the room is something that was identified by multiple different people as something that may be not an issue, but like it's a quiet room is not something you want to hear about your

NHL locker room. Quiet room is a bad thing to hear is it not yes by him identifying that it's a quiet room is another way saying that the room is not strong right and you can hide a lot of things into a quiet room and i i found him backtracking a little bit on i hear it's a great room yeah he did he realized what he said he backtracked immediately he said he said it was a quiet room before he heard he said i heard it was a great room yeah yeah it is but there are some things that need to go said sometime need to be said said, and a quiet room may not say them. And you do need some guys to say, hey, pal, need you to block that one.

Should we have a drop there, a random drop? I – Is this the backtrack drop? Whose backdrop was that? I don't have no idea, fellas. It's hard to know when I'm not there. I don't know what Derek's doing back there. What's he cooking back there? There you go.

Okay. All right. Yeah. All right. You know. And the other one that kind of bothered me is, you know, the one that referenced, I like to plan the parties. Right? And I like to get the boys together on the road.

Like, first of all, maybe you might want to find out if they've got somebody else on the team who plans the parties, right? Like, maybe it's, you know, maybe it's Mitch Marner who plans the parties. Maybe it's John Tavares. Maybe you want to make sure that, you know, they're in need of a party planner, right? It's the Leafs. They pay somebody to do that.

Yeah. You know, I mean, where is really planning parties on the top of a priority list for Maple Leaf fans who have not won a cup since 1967? Could you shoot in the net once more in the playoffs? I'm not really worried about that. How about an OT winner? You know, I mean, I don't even know. Is Ryan Reeves married? Because there is a part of an NHL team that has a lot to do with wives and girlfriends.

And I'm not sure the first thing you want to hear out of a free agent coming to a team is, I'm going to plan the parties on the road for the boys. Yeah. Did we lose Mourney? Mourney, are you muted? Oh, hey, do you want to listen to Tree on Reeves before we get to the bigger deals? Yes. Sure.

Okay. I remember Billy Guerin a while back had mentioned when he brought Ryan in that you need character in your team, and sometimes you need some characters. And I think he brings – there's a presence to Ryan. It's not about fighting and all the rest of it, but I just felt both on the ice and in our room and around our team, we need a little bit more noise. And Ryan brings that. Like I said, I think there's a physical presence.

He can still get in a forecheck. He makes things difficult for the opposition. And it gives us a little bit of a different look on our lower lines. So we're excited to have him. And again, if some of the guys welcome that um you know it could be an asset for sure we're just going to have to see the way this thing kind of plays out uh but first and foremost for me is the noise that he's going to create on the ice uh for for some of the guys and you know how much How much braver does he make other players now? And it has worked in the past. That part I can identify with for sure, JB.

I do like that if you get scrappy, annoying guys like Bertuzzi and Domi on the team, I like that they can set the volleyball to someone who can spike it. I don't mind the fact that they have a guy who's like, it's not just antagonized like bunting and then everyone has to go back to the bench and, you know, it doesn't end. It can end now, you know. So, listen, guys, with the Reeves thing, I think it's a bit too much money personally.

I'd rather him be playing for one instead of 1.35. I'd rather him run two years instead of one. But I think it's a fine addition for the Leafs. I don't mind it. How's it going to work in playoffs, though? Is he going to play on a defensive shutdown line? How often is he going to get out there? I think it's fine. I like it for the regular season. I don't know

that this one's going to significantly help the team get over the hump, but hey, they can use a little bit of this in a lot of those regular season contests. Okay, so Sammy, you okay with anything else on Ryan Reeves? Yeah, I'm

just, I've wanted this guy in the least for like 10 years so I'm pretty excited to have him on board. I really am. Like, I've loved all his interviews. I like his personality. Like, I think it could work here. I think if he goes out there night one and beats the break off somebody and is riling up Scotiabank Arena, I don't think it's going to take very long for this fan base to fall in love with them that's all i'll say you think the the days of guys ragdolling austin

matthews are over no i still think guys do that i think i don't think you can have the toughest guy in the world like i think it still happens but this time they just might have to answer somebody for it i think people will still go after those guys still hockey but i i don't think it's it's going to be like that that never has been the case i hate that i hate hearing that from people being like oh you know this bad thing happened to a player even though they had a tough guy it's like that's not what the tough guy in hockey forever yeah guys still got in fights when dave samank they did stuff to people when dave samanka was there they just had to fight him yeah and you don't get to show people what they stopped from happening you know or you know the extra things that quieted down because of them because nothing happened so there's no way to

rebut that anyway it's just a pushback anyways i I hate the idea of like, oh, they had a tough guy and bad things still happen. Of course they did. Yeah. Okay. Bertuzzi was a big name on the market. No question about that. When it came to one of the few guys that could actually turn into a long-term scenario moving forward. Bertuzzi was one of those guys.

It never came to fruition. The thought was that he wanted a five-year deal at well over $5 million per, and it didn't happen. But he did get his five-plus out of Toronto, but just, just again on a one-year deal uh first and foremost the surprise that the Leafs were able to get him on just a one-year deal JB let's start with you well you know I guess this is a guy who believes that when healthy he is obviously worth more than that he scored 30 goals two years ago he gets healthy this you know plays in a crummy team and then he gets on a good team and healthy in boston gets five goals 10 points

in seven playoff games he obviously believes he's a seven million dollar guy or you know whatever the number may be so that's why you get him as cheap as you do is he thinks he you know after one year with the cap going up he can get that that much bigger number. For me, I'm just like, I wanted the Leafs to be bigger jerks. And that's why I'm okay with Reeves. I think Bertuzzi is a complete annoyance, and it drives me crazy to watch him play. He's the guy that I wanted for the Leafs, because when I watch him play for other teams, I'm like, I hate that guy. I hate him.

Biggest compliment you can give a guy in hockey. I hate playing that guy. He scores, he's in a crease. He falls in a goal. He doesn't shut up. I love that for the Leafs. They need some of that. A year at $5.5 million is a great deal.

Who knows what it looks like down the road, and who knows what it looks like, what it means they have to do in season, salary cap-wise, which I know we'll get into a bit. But for me, you can go back and check my tweets. Before free agency dropped, this is the one guy I wanted for the Leafs, and they got their guy. And he is, Sammy, a very big upgrade from Michael Bunting. Oh, no question.

Right? He's like unfoamy Bunting. Yes, exactly. Unbluffing Bunting. Yes. So that's huge for them to have someone like that. And everyone you see who draws up the Leafs lines, they got him with Matthews and Marner next year.

I don't know if that's too much for him or not, but you each complained about their left wing all last season, Kip. Yes, correct, 100%. I'm a big fan, for sure, of Bertuzzi coming in. He's heavier. He's smart. He can, I think, on a poor year, score you 20 goals. And on a really good year, can score you 30-plus. And who knows what that number could look like with Austin and Mitch.

I think they've got a chance to look like one of the better lines in the league. He's way bigger than I thought he was. He's 6'1". He's a good sized guy. And for me, it's just such a mutually beneficial relationship here, this contract.

Like you said, if they play him with Matthews and marner in toronto what's that next con what's that next contract going to be looking like like if you if he's viewing this as a stop and you know it's a con it's immediately you have him in a contract year playing with two of the best players in the league in a year where the Leafs need to be good like it's a really mutually beneficial relationship for these two the two sides like i could see it going really well for both imagine it's low risk imagine watching alex calorin sign four years 25 million and watching him and going how am i not that yeah i think i think the two different

situations is probably that Kalorn has won. He knows that he's probably not going to get that, and he's going to go there, and he's going to make a bunch of money and live in California. He's 34. Yeah, but he's 34 with cups. He's 34 with a ton of experience on how to win, and they paid a premium so he can go into Anaheim and teach some of those younger kids how to win.

Bertuzzi couldn't have done that. Ain't nobody winning in Anaheim with Killorn and Gutis as your free agent prizes. Good luck. It's not great. But I get your point, Kip. I'm not discounting that. So do you guys want to move on from Bertuzzi? You Domi?

Well, yeah. I mean, Domi's the one that I think turned Leaf Nation around completely. Would you agree, Sammy, in terms of shoring up now what we said was an underwhelming left side last year? Yeah,

I think it's completely flipped the left side now, right? Domi and Bertuzzi and Nize like it's immediately better on the left side than it was all of last season basically bertuzzi domi nize is unbelievable one two three that's a really good left side so i think it's pretty exciting to have max domi here i'm calling it now uh a big time suspension at some point this year for Max Domi when his passion wires absolutely cross and he does something crazy for the least.

I can already picture it. Maybe in opening night I could picture it happening. I just feel like he's going to have so much. Watch the lawsuit, Max. Yeah, the passion that he's going to play with. Did that happen to David Clarkson? Yes. David Clarkson.

Tell him to skip the preseason, Max. No preseason. But I like the signing. It's, again, another low-risk one. A guy that can play on your top six. He can play on your bottom six. Energy guy. Not afraid to get in the face of the other team.

It's an identity signing with some pedigree with a guy who is a beloved leaf. I don't know how you don't like it. 15, 20 goals yep could come from from domey uh again 20 and probably was looking for a a multi-year deal on four million dollars uh there's no question he he probably could have made a little bit more money somewhere else maybe maybe on a shorter two-year deal. But the attraction, of course, is the history with the Domi name in the city of Toronto. Can that play against him a little bit? Can it be a bit of a distraction?

You worry about that, JB, at all? He seems like a guy who leans into it pretty well. He's already made comments about being excited and wanting to be here. Let's face facts. The guy is 28 years old. He's on his now seventh hockey club or something like that. He's looking for a home. Toronto is obviously a great candidate to be it for him.

I think you're going to get the best of him while he's here. And sure, there may be a few extra questions and a bit more attention. Doesn't seem like a guy who doesn't like attention to me. You know, some people hide from it. He seems like someone who'd embrace it. Well, to a certain extent, I think, too. I mean, there's actually a little bit of shyness in him as well in certain areas. Is there?

I can say it comes from his mother's side of the family. Yeah. Right? It ain't, Ty. But I think he might be at a good age. And, yes, JB, you're right. He's played with a lot of teams. But he also played with one in Quebec,

a fairly famous organization called the Montreal Canadiens. So he has a little bit of that knowledge and that savvy to be in a market under the microscope already, which I think can help him out a lot. You guys know how I felt about him coming to Toronto last year. I told you multiple times that he was willing to take a lot less to come back last year. Whether, you know, it certainly appears on the surface that it was Kyle Dubas that maybe didn't want him. And less than maybe Brendan Shanahan, because lo and behold, a year later, he is here now and he is signed. So I really thought last year was the time that they should have gone after max domi

and yeah i agree you know hopefully hopefully there's still room that the the team can grow and get better um you know despite you know some key pieces out of the lineup now and kip to your point you talk about him playing in a bright market like montreal guy had 30 goals and 70 points there. That was when everyone thought we were looking at a superstar. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they can get that version of him. Well, the other thing too, I know Sammy's throwing out top six, bottom six, but it's also going to be a key where he ends up playing.

Is he playing with David Kampf all year? Is he going to get opportunities on the power play guys? Like, let's take a look. Maybe he'll play two units this year, and then, you know, that'd be nice. Even if there is two units, you know, two or three guys are going to still absorb a buck 30 off of him. Yeah. You know, Bertuzzi will want his power play time and he's at 5.5

he's gonna get power play time um but you know Max is gonna they're gonna have to find a way to get Max some some significant minutes I think on the power play too because once upon a time it was his specialty you know uh and he's got the ability uh to to create and and make things happen offensively boys we haven't even talked about john we have talked about the guys who left for one but john klingberg on pp1 i am really excited about this and i i feel like the only person watching the leafs who's excited about it but i like what he can do up there. And Morgan Riley, for years you guys have heard me be like, he just dusts it off too much. Just move it.

Just throw a fake. I like Klingberg for their PP1. Yeah, and then the rest of it, I hate. He can't play 5-5. He can't play 5-on-5. It's too soft. This is the signing I am not a fan of. I don't see the fit.

Well, JB's right. He will give them a different look on the power play, for sure, with a right-handed shot. He will. He wasn't the guy who was recently in it in some sort of playoff feisty altercation stuff, was he? He was trying to fight guys. Listen, I don't know what happened in Anaheim.

Anaheim thought that they're fine paying him, I believe, $7 million. $7 or $8 million. And turn him into an asset at the trade deadline. Except one thing happened. Nobody wanted him at the trade deadline. They couldn't give him away. Sam, you talk about Ryan Reeves not liking the three-year deal. I don't like him at 4-1.

You show me another team willing to pay him a little over $3 million to come in and be a power play guy. That guy is Gustafson in my mind right now. And where did Gustafson sign my mind right now. Yeah. Okay? And where did Gustafson sign? Rangers, 850K. 850K. There you go. Okay? And what did he have?

I think that's a harsh review. 40, 50 points? Who, Gustafson? Gustafson? Yeah. Gustafson had 120 points because he had 44 his team and 80 against. To me, come playoff time, I'm not sure I want Klingberg out there five on five. That's all.

Well, that's the hard part is you're going to play him on a third pair where you can't put him out there to kill plays and defend and be out there in a close game. It is sort of a field goal kicker of a role here for this guy. He's just going to go out there and be a pee-pee guy. But, I mean, he was a pretty good player for Dallas once upon a time, you know, three years ago anyway. He turned down $60 million from Dallas. I don't know if I'd ever be okay again as a person.

I don't think I would recover. You're so exotic, I'd never financially recover. I'll never financially recover from this. Once upon a time, we were talking about him getting Norris votes. So, you know, he did put himself in a position where he was considered one of the better defensemen in the league. But that thing fell right off the cliff. He's incentivized to prove himself.

And in Anaheim, how do you do that? The team sucks. No one watches you play. How do you go be the guy who earns a big deal there? I understand. You think that change is coming to Toronto? I think the spotlight's bright and you sure better be good. You know, like there's Max incentive

for him to be the best version of himself. And if it doesn't pan out, you know, is he someone you can cut bait from then at that point? Maybe, but the risk on getting his upside, I don't know. I don't mind that. Klingberg is talking right now, and this was his quote.

I'm not going to lie. It was a tough year last year. Yeah. Well, listen, he bought him out. Why did you have to pay $4 million for him? He bought him out. I'm really surprised it cost $4 million, Sammy. You're right.

Yeah, like $2 million, maybe. $4 million to me seems surprising. That was the one that i didn't like at all like you guys he's bigger he's big he's six three i guess that's something he's got going for him can't teach size like babs likes to say but yeah i like so where are you gonna who are you gonna play him with yeah yeah who's he playing yeah well listen this is again still to have you know kyle's out brad tree livings in but again the free agent and and the clingberg on the back end still suggests to me that you know they're they're top heavy guys everything's about the forwards and the real issue for me moving forward for the Leafs is, what's your goaltending situation like?

And that blue line still is not good enough. And it hasn't been that way for years. Yeah. Not good enough. Not good enough to compete. And that's where the work has to begin. Is that blue line and then solidifying the goaltender their d is actually so concerning for me that like i love their group of forwards i think you

can win a stanley cup with their groups of forwards i truly do but you need real upgrades on that back end to the point where this kneel and everything right now, they're what, five, six, seven, 8 million over the salary cap in the off season, which is allowed. You know, it might be, that may have to happen because the back end right now, Riley Brody, McCabe is all you trust. Basically you're not even sure how much you trust them. Yeah.

Well, um, there, yeah well um there it's not coming anytime soon through free agency help on the blue line so yeah i got you guys got me yeah yeah i think bernie i think your headset uh anyways it really really will come now, I think, with Brad moving forward, Sammy, via the trade somehow, some way reshaping that blue line a little bit at some point between now, training camp, or the trade deadline. It's just it's not good enough right now, but it's also July 2nd. So I think we got some time for it. JB, we got you back. Brad's going to have to he's going to have to trade himself through maybe a different feel to the blue line. Unlike the forwards got traded through free agency.

Yeah. Sorry, Kip. I only caught the tail end of that can you ask me again about yeah i'm just saying that uh to change the blue line uh i believe that brad will probably have to do it via the trades uh much different from changing his his front forwards through free agency yeah yeah no that that seems to be the only route to take. You know, I still think they're in a pretty good spot. Like, that decor is fine enough to win you a lot of regular season games,

but I just, you look at how you can change the shape of a lineup in the season as you get towards the deadline, like the Leafs forwards from the start of last year to post-deadline, you have some time to change the decor, but they definitely have to do it. You're just not winning a Stanley Cup without at least one more legitimate D-man added to the group. So where are we at with the Willie and Matthews situation, fellas?

I kind of thought that might have heard about Matthews by now. I think a Leaf Nation's on the clock. I've said it right from the start. July 1st would have been a great feel for Leaf Nation, knowing that both these guys are signed, sealed, and delivered moving forward. That's not the case. There's not a sense that anything's imminent as well.

And again, in a system where funds and term are dried up, you know, you assume that it's been saved somewhat for Austin and Nylander, but it seems like there's still a lot of work to do for both those guys. I wonder, guys, if Nylander's camp has taken some offense at how much less he earned than the other guys, despite being comparable production-wise, yada, yada.

I wonder if the Leafs have a deal with Matthews, but want to get Nylander signed first before Nylander can look at the Matthews deal and go, you gave him 14. You know, you keep paying him. Why am I the guy taking the deals again? I wonder if they want to get Nylander signed before they announce the Matthews thing. Let's just assume that you're right. Okay.

Usually safe bet there, Kip. And Lewis Gross and Michael Nylander, the father for Willie. Listen, I'm wrong a lot. No, no. I think you may be right. We want to see what that guy makes first.

And what do you do if you're Brad Tree Living? Yeah. You know what I do? He ain't got nothing to do with you. I always say, watch your own bobber. You know, say to my kids, don't worry about what your sister's doing. You know, you got different rules, all right? Okay.

Then I'll do, then, okay, here's your different rule there, JB and Brad. I want 10.25 times eight. There you go. That's what I want. Hope you like Carolina. Good luck getting it out of Tom Dundon. Yeah. And how quickly do you start trading them?

Today. We're on the phone today if you want. So 10.5. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Is there a 9 that would make you happy? Yeah. You give me anything that starts with a nine and I'll take them.

Give me 9.99. You will. You'll take 9.99? Yes. Because I think that's a hell of a lot of money, and I think that's a deal he should take tomorrow. I will do 9.99 if I can give you four years or five. How about that?

God, why don't you take the eight? Why don't you take the eight?'t you take it i don't want him i don't want age 35 willie and i don't want willie knowing he's got nine years of contract ahead of him no matter how he performs willie could give you 40 goals a year in in seven out of eight, or he could give you 20 and a great 10. He could give you 25 dogs a year, too. I'm the one that should be scared of Willie, not you guys. Underperforming. 9.9 is a

horrifying number. I do, too, but anything above 9 is officially scary town to me, boys. Timo Mayer, 8.8. He's way talent to me, boys. Timo Meier, 8.8. He's way better than him, boys. Oh, get out of here. Way better than Timo Meier? I don't know why.

Way better. Absolutely. But better. Absolutely. Better. More dynamic score. Talent. Here's what I can promise you.

Willie would have seen Trouba coming. I can promise you Willie sees Truba coming. Yeah. Anyways, we should break, boys. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. That's a quick 40, Sammy. Yeah, we got to go.

We got Gord Stelic after the break, and in the second hour, we're going to go around the league with Brian Lawton as well. So plenty more on our two-hour version today of Real Kipper and Born. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, we continue on the Real Kipper and Born show. Big changes for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but one thing that will never change, our love for Gord Stelic. Yes. What a happy Canada Day. How are you guys?

We're good. We're all good. We're just trying to take it all in, Gord, the last 48 hours and Leaf Nation and this new philosophy of, hey, let's make it difficult here. Let's get some noise. And, hey, Ryan Reeves is already providing a little bit of it. We've heard from Max Domi, who's wearing France on his way back.

Let's get your thoughts, Gord, on the change of philosophy from skill, skill, skill to, hey, let's grease it up a little bit. Yeah, a lot of electricity the last couple of days, that's for sure. That's for sure. And, Kippy, you know, you guys, like, I guess one of the quieter dressing rooms, right? And, you know, you want to get, I guess one of the quieter dressing rooms, right? And, you know, you want to get, and Brian Burke will always talk about when they won a cup in Anaheim, he brought a guy like Brad May

in just to add some, it was too quiet, you know, just some of those little pieces. So you're going to add that as well. You know, I guess it's something that's going to be a positive in the dressing room. I know it will. But you're right on it, particularly, Kippy, and guys, in the playoffs, right? In the playoffs are when you need the Sam Bennett, those kind of hits,

those kind of guys going out of their way to make the hits, to extracting a tool out of the opponents, to game after game after game, that being a big element of your DNA. And, you know, goodbye, Alex Kerfoot. And I'm saying that with all due respect and hello, someone like a Bertuzzi or a Domi that can give you that kind of element. So I really got to admit Saturday, like everybody else, I kind of wondered is another shoe going to drop in the Maple Leafs favor, as opposed to all these guys not re-upping.

And certainly that ended up being the case. Yeah. What are your thoughts, Gord, on not so much the incoming players, but the exodus here, like Michael Bunting, Justin Hall, Ryan O'Reilly, Luke Shen, Alex Kerfoot? That's a big percentage of the team that helped them have a lot of success. Is there any one of them that maybe Leafs fans are underestimating is going to hurt the team not having them around next year? Yeah, you know, Justin, one thing to keep in mind, we have to,

is about this is a great regular season team. I think sometimes we forget about that. But I think Michael Bunting, had they not made those moves, I assume they would have had something to fill the void and they had kind of a one-two punch to fill the void. I mean, Ryan O'Reilly, it's kind of, you know, that was the one that fans were under the impression that, okay, he'll go back to St. Louis, or all things being equal,

he'll stay in Toronto. And I guess lesson learned, he left a little bit of a stink bomb on the way out, that it wasn't a very positive experience for him. Whatever the reasons are, you've got two guys coming, Ndomi and Bertuzzi that want to emulate Gary Roberts and Joe Newendijk and Curtis Joseph and guys like that that came back and had a phenomenal experience when they came back to the home area so I mean Ryan O'Reilly was was circumstances beyond their control I gotta say at the end of it the guy I

missed was Luke Shen and when they got him I kind of wondered would it would he be a seventh D or what would he do and he was such an intricate role morgan rodney played his best hockey with him as a partner and i really you know i know other people can say a cherry and things like that but i just thought he's the one the one piece i wanted to have back because he brought so many of those intangibles that we believe that reeds for tuzzi, and Domi can bring. Certainly, the Leafs could not match a Luke Shen contract anywhere near north of $2 million. The money that they wanted Luke Shen to take,

they gave it to Ryan Reeves. And I'm just, you know, Gord, if I go back and I think about your tenure as a general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, you were in a similar situation as Brad Tree Living, where you thought that you needed a lot more toughness. And you gave up some skill in Russ Cortnall for the late John Cordick. Can you relate to Ryan Reeves coming in in this similar situation in terms of, you know, why you felt it was so important and what it actually brought you? And were there similarities to your move back then to Ryan Reeves coming to Toronto today? Did I make that trade, Kippy? I can't remember.

People just have to look back a little bit. I think I told you guys. What were you looking for, Gord? Was it similar that you were too soft or you thought you needed more noise? Yeah. Did it work? Yeah, I think I told you guys that a couple of last year, somebody yelled that to me on Yonge Street as they drove by about that trade. So so, Kippy, to your point, bit of a different era.

And we had a coach, John Brophy, that really, really emphasized we needed to get tougher. Now, you know, a positive out of it was that's why we took Ty Domi, Max's dad, in the second round of the 88 draft. So that ended up being a really good pick. And that gave us some of the things that we were looking for. And, you know, we added some complimentary players like, OK, Brian Curran, Lou Francesetti, Brad Marsh, you know, that, you know, we're a little bit more on the tougher side. So it is a necessary ingredient. And you're right. I can emulate, I can certainly emulate with what they're looking at now. And the point is, you know, one heavyweight's not going to change a team. I mean, Ryan Reeves has been around a few different teams

the last couple of years. But there's that element, that word culture, there's the whole thing if everyone gets on board by just getting a little bit more sandpaper as a team collectively, that's the positive. But, yeah, it's a funny animal that these guys quite often need more toughness. Then it got to a point where they're getting too many penalties and, you know, what have you.

I really think Wayne Simmons, that second game against the Tampa Bay Lightning in the playoffs, he almost scored. He played really well. He almost scored, and then he took the unfortunate penalty, and then Simmons and Kyle Clifford were not necessary ingredients anymore. And, you know, hoping we're not repeating in this case that, you know, Reeves, who's played deep in the playoffs before,

can still contribute there. But, Kippy, to answer your question, that's a very fair comparison. You know, one thing that interests me is like toronto is a unique animal and ryan o'reilly has kind of implied you know you mentioned maybe not the best experience uh not necessarily the room uh so much i don't think as like his maybe there's too much family around too much noise around it whatever it is he didn't love being in Toronto. Kip and I talked a little bit about Max Domi coming here, another guy who, you know, Tavares came here because it's Toronto. You know, Domi seems to want to be here because it's Toronto. How do you think that affects a player's performance, their season,

their experience as an NHLer? Well, you know, Justin, and one thing about Max is he really excelled on the Canadian team as well. You know, he liked the big theater. He played in Montreal. He liked the big theater. And I think when you've got – we hear so many things about the Canadian dollar, tax-free state, you know, all these other things that you're competing against.

And like I said, I use those comparables. And, you know, New and Dyke Roberts, Joseph, a few other ones that'll talk about the positive thing about coming back in the area and embracing that. And I think that's a real positive for him. I mean, he's played in Phoenix and other places that aren't the big hockey markets. And same with Petuzzi. I love the fact that they want to be on the big stage.

I love the fact that they're kind of betting on themselves to a degree. I mean, there weren't a lot of multi-year contracts to go around, by and large. That seemed to be the nature of this UFA period. But they're kind of saying, I'm going to go out, use this season, kick ass, which is good for them, feeling they're in a good situation, which after kind of discarding what O'Reilly's feelings are, speaks well for the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2023. So I really like those particular fits.

Just tell me he's not going to wear number 28. Please tell me that. I don't want to wear number 28. No, no, come on, come on. He's got to wear 28. Sammy? Yeah. No, no, 28.

Number 11, there you go. Yeah. Good, no, 28. Number 11, there you go. Good. Okay, good. Do you worry about the pressure of the name Domi in Toronto? No, no, it's a popular thing. And it's the whole thing. I don't know what kid plays in their dad's shadow i mean there's if you ever want to look at the the uh unfortunate first round pick danny jeffrey on was short-lived when his dad boom boom jeffrey i was coaching the montreal

canadians now i'm going back decades but i mean that was one where it never really got going and i just think you know there's uh tyomi's extremely, extremely popular figure here, maybe at times polarizing, but mostly a popular figure in Toronto. And I yeah, and I think enough people, there's enough new young fans and whatever that he's well out of his dad's shadow and he always has been. So I think they can more embrace what his dad had was such a very positive Toronto experience twice. And hopefully, hopefully Max has that same. So, you know, there's a couple positive Toronto experience twice. And hopefully Max has that same. So, you know, there's a couple of question marks now. Well, I mean, obviously no team in the salary cap era is, you know, doing perfect at every position.

The Leafs get John Klingberg for $4 million, which is a curious fit on a talented offensive guy. And we're waiting on a goaltending deal for Ilya Samsonov how are you feeling about the back end working from the crease out here as we sit on things in July 3rd um vanilla kind of vanilla you know I think uh uh it's been always known about all the money spread the top four salaries among top four uh, and that's kind of impacted how the D were. There was a lot of things. Rasmus Sandin gone, now Jake Muzzin out.

Finally, and it showed, boy, D can still get money, the kind of deal Justin Holl got with the Detroit Red Wings, even though a lot of fans were happy he left. And to be fair, it was time that he did move on somewhere else. But yeah's there's an element of work in progress about it can morgan riley play like he did in the playoffs more often than not you know uh tj brody had an ordinary playoffs at time but it's been a steady guy uh you know you got got the addition of mccabe from chicago who you know look good in a lot of

ways added some physicality but still i don't want to say the jury's out, but you just want to get that fit and bring that all together in that regard. And Klingberg had a so-so year last year. He's got to bounce back. There's no question. He provides offense. Again, he's got on a one-year contract as well. So, yeah, I think the D, and that's something that Brad Treliving had, if you look at his track record in Calgary, was big at addressing the D, whether it was free agents or trades.

So I think there's a little bit more to come still here. You mentioned, Justin, the cap restraints, which are very real. But, you know, he's had experience, the challenges, and navigating all that as well. We're talking to Gord Stelic from Leaf Nation pre- and post-game fame, also former Toronto Maple Leaf general manager. Gord, the concern, July 1st gone and passed, and no signing of Austin or Willie moving forward.

How concerned are you? Zero. Zero. Okay, I'd be concerned if Austin Matthews' contract, How concerned are you? Zero. Zero. Okay, I'd be concerned if Austin Matthews' contract, particularly since Austin Matthews indicated he wants to stay here or sign another contract here, well, you know, it's pretty well understood. Whatever the money is, 13 or whatever will be. I mean, he's a generational hockey player. You don't want that to start becoming a distraction.

You can say, okay, Pasternak in Boston, McKinnon, Landiscaug in Colorado, that all worked out in the end. But here, given fans are expecting it, it would be a distraction. Willie Nylander, okay, you try to sign him. He's the one guy that could be in play as far as the trade goes. And the other thing is hey if you're going for it willie kneelander in the final year he's and he's going to be a ufa you know he's kicked ass the last couple years he's the guy that if he can kick ass again and you go for it

you know better having him in your lineup and see what happens and if the dust settles and you win and you lose them so be it or if things are going south which would be terrible you trade him at the trade deadline. So I think in that case, you've got a number of options for Willie Nylander. In Austin Matthews' case, I'm not saying you have to get him signed July 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th. But the expectation is in the not-too-distant future, he's going to re-up. So can Bradtree Living do enough things around this group that they will be different enough for you or is this one of those things that you still feel like they're going to be the same team as long as the core guys are here uh i think he already has done enough uh as far as the core guys

are the core guys right the core you know and they're exceptional core guys there's just there's there's just core guys in a team that don't have an exceptional body of work in the playoffs. So these tweaks on the weekend, I really liked. I really, because, you know, first of all, Justin, like, you know, we all know, everyone gets excited about the weekend that is unrestricted free agency. But the Toronto Maple Leaf history, there's John Tavares, which was the big fish, but there's Jeff Finger, there's Mike Comisera. There's Tim Connolly. You know, there's the Clarkson.

There's, you know, Jason Blake. Like, I mean, there's a litany of people getting excited about pieces that didn't make a big difference. So your big pieces are already here. And then if it's Nylander that he feels there's a kind of good hockey trade to make. And I'm sure he's talking contract, and he's also always talking about potential hockey trades. Then, you know, that can come into fruition. But as far as complementary parts go on a free agent weekend, these are really good. I mean, Klingberg a bit more of the jury's out,

but Reeves has a specific purpose. And the other two guys, I mean, I thought Bert mean my like i thought bertuzzi's gonna go back to boston that's just a great great name and i've always liked the the the fit one day of domi and domi is really fit in well any team he's gone to and he's played hard in the playoffs for them i mean he's been a consummate team guy that way when the goings got tough so i really like this body of work on july first weekend especially when you compare it to some of those other names I just threw out there. JB, you mentioned Ilya Samsonov. I don't know what year we pronounce it differently.

Is there any thought that it's too quiet for you? We haven't heard much in terms of re-upping or how close they are. Is the sign that it's so quiet, Gord, one that suggests that they're having trouble signing him? KP, did you like Ilya Kuryakin? Remember from the man from Uncle Napoleon Solo and Ilya Kuryakin?

Gord, you're way older than me. You're way older than me. Remember the man from Uncle Napoleon Solo and Ilya Kuryakin? You're way older than me. You're way older than me. Wasn't it a movie, too? Anyway, that was my favorite Ilya before Samsonov and Ilya Nastassi. Is that before Leave it to Beaver? Before Leave it to Beaver? I think it was before beavers were invented, I think.

I don't know. Before they inhabited the earth. But, no, it's a restricted free agent. You control his rights. The Matt Murray, again, you know, at least, and again, Kyle did a lot of positives, but a bit of a legacy is broken down goaltenders who break down and then having to move them out somewhere to try to give up assets to try to get some other team beat that salary and they're kind of in that predicament a little bit a little bit

in in this case uh with matt murray but uh i look at the goaltending um uh whatever i don't know what the number the comparable will be for samson obviously he'll get a raise i just think a real this is the first time in how many years have you had a Joe Wall and a Matthew Nise, the guys that are coming to the team on entry-level contracts that are not fringe players. I mean, Matthew Nise is a top two line player. Joe Wall is a competent NHL goaltender, competent backup at a minimum. So that's taken a little bit, a little bit, a modicum of salary cap relief in that direction. And I got to think they have to have a number in mind with Samsonoff that's got to get done.

He's their guy. Gord, great stuff today. Great stuff throughout our whole season on the Real Kimper and Bourne Show. Really appreciate your support over the whole year for us. We're going to be leaning on you again somewhere down the road for sure. Thanks for doing this. Well, you know, I said, like, it reminds me a lot when the fans started and I

did a show with Damien Cox. I was way better than Damien, but anyway, did the show and just kind of fun talk, great hockey talk, and people just really enjoy it. So I appreciate being a part of it, really enjoy it, and thanks very much. Been a pleasure to be involved, guys.

Thanks, Gordon. We love you. At its finest. Gordon Stelic, everybody. Yeah, Justin, see you, guys. See you, Sammy. Let me ask you guys, were you expecting Samsonov to kind of be looked after at this point,

or is it still debatable here on who are the two goalies gonna be come september because matt murray boys and i told you this a while ago and you shook me off like an o2 fastball said you know matt murray uh you know get rid of Matt Murray, but Matt Murray's still in the mix. Is he going to go 10 for the Leafs? It's just, it's not even the bet against him. It's the salary. You know, it's like, you know, you can't be paying a guy who's going to be a 901 this year over $4 million. Like, you can get Samsonov for under that,

who could be a 915 if he has a great year. I don't know what he was last year, but couldn't have been far off that. I just, I don't, maybe it's harder to get rid of than I thought. I don't know what a buyout looks like. I just can't believe they're going to go forward with this guy. Sammy, your mic. Oh, there we go. I have no control over it.

Can you guys hear me now? Yeah, you're back. Can you hear me yet? Yeah, okay, okay. I think what they're doing with the cap gives me two sort of inclinations either that they're so far apart with neilander that neilander is going to get traded or that they have something figured out with matt murray going to get traded because they're kind of spending like drunken sailors right now and they're over the cap like it feels like there's another shoe to drop here

that could be that they have something in place for murray maybe like i don't know what it is but i i can't picture him being the goaltender for the leafs next year i really can't like it'd be if you're going into the season depending on that the sample size was large enough like he had what three good weeks and then the rest was injured and bad. Yep. 100%. They're going to have to trade him or buy him out. There's some that I've read that think that he's going to go on long-term IR. That's not happening. He finished the year healthy.

He got cleared medically healthy. He's not even 30 years of age. He's not going on long-term IR. He still wants to goaltend for the next three, four, five years of his career. So that's not happening. Can you pay Chicago to take him? Listen, you could most definitely take – you can get interest on another team taking him if perhaps you sweeten the pot.

But now you're Mrazek all over again. I think you want to try to trade him as is before you give up any assets. Well, do you think that – I mean, i mean would you okay we talked about this on with jd bunkus today i'll ask you guys this if you were had to put a sweetener in to get rid of matt murray would you include nick robertson in that as a sweetener i would i'm i'm not i actually can't believe the amount of preseason Leafs forecast lineups that include Robertson on line two or three. I haven't seen him take 10 good shifts over the past two years.

I know. His best shifts were in one game in his first game this year. I don't remember a moment. Would you do that, Kip? Good point. Yeah, there's that one game. I'm just not sure how teams would value Nick Robertson today like they did a year ago or a year and a half ago.

Well, would he be equivalent to a third-round pick now? If you were, or like, what would his value be? Because the Leafs don't have any picks to sweeten the pot. So they may have to use a player. I don't know. I'm just putting it out there. I don't know anything, obviously. It's just something we talked about.

Yeah. Sammy, I wouldn't think of him as a second or third round pick anymore. I'd think of him as a PTO. Nick Robertson. I guess high upside PTO. Yeah. Is it PTO? Nick Robertson. I guess high upside PTO. Yeah. Is it? Like, I really have no belief.

Unfortunate. But I don't have any belief. He could prove us all wrong and finally come in stronger and better than what we all think. At least me, anyways. But he's going to have to start from the very beginning at training camp, and maybe it'll happen for Toronto. Maybe it won't. We'll have to wait and see.

Okay, let's take another break here off our two-hour show. We'll keep running back today and tomorrow for two hours, and we'll welcome in Brian Lawton and maybe take a good look around the league on what just transpired for agency the last couple of days. We're Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, and Sammy McKee, and we are Real Kipper and Bourne. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports.

The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, you guys with me? Here we go. Let's welcome in Brian Lott, former general manager, player agent, analyst. He's done it all, and he's done it all on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Hey, Lott, how are you, man?

Sometimes on the other shoe, too, but yes, on the real Kipper and Bourne show. We've done it all, I think, I hope, maybe. Hey, we've watched the free agency unfold in the last four to eight hours. and since the salary cap inception, I don't think we've ever felt anything like we felt in the last few days. Mind you, lots of transactions have happened. We've seen guys moved and signed. But clearly what has dried up is the term and the money that's available to these guys. No doubt about it.

I mean, obviously, there's a lot of teams that are praying, praying for the future. They just want to get through this year. It's been a tough deal with the pandemic. It's slowed things down. It's ruined some people's planning. It's not something you can plan for, so you really can't say too much to the managers and the guys that are in charge of it. It just is what it is.

But the slowing salary cap has put it pretty hard. It's not like it hasn't been exciting, but it hasn't been as exciting in the past. There hasn't been as much movement in the past. And it's a little bit surprising because whether or not people like to admit it, they love to see what happens in the offseason. People love to see new players coming to their team, new hope. That's been dampened a little bit, for sure, mostly because of the pandemic,

but also because we've got a couple teams out there. You've got Chicago doing things that we haven't seen in the past, signing guys like Corey Perry and trading for Taylor Hall and signing Nick Foligno and paying these guys really good money, but everybody kind of knowing that they're going through a rebuild and it's going to be all about Conor Bedard. So there's been all these unique twists that have kind of caught some managers by surprise to be honest with you so very unusual time right now in the nhl it is brian and we would be remiss if we didn't get your thoughts on

on the toronto maple leafs before we go around the the rest of the league obviously they've changed the gm and uh changed roster significantly, but have left the core intact. Your thoughts on Tree Living's decisions thus far as Leafs GM? Well, unfortunately, that's the only team I haven't looked at, so we'll have to go to the next question.

That's fine. I'm just kidding, guys. Okay, I was going to say, all right, I've got other teams to ask you about, but you know. It's all about the Leafs on this show, you know that. No, I didn't know that. This is so shocking. I wasn't sure if we would talk about the Leafs, but yes. What do I think?

I think, you know, honestly, we'll get back on track. I apologize, guys. I'm just joking. I think Brad had a very specific philosophy or plan coming in, and that is that he wants the team to be tougher to play against. I do think they've achieved that. You know, the Ryan O'Reilly deal or no deal, I really don't know what to make of that, you guys. Ryan O'Reilly is this beloved player by his teammates, a tried and true winner, exactly the type of guy you want.

And the fact that he didn't come back to Toronto, you know, at least around the league and talking to other people, going somewhere else for similar money that didn't have as much a chance to win, that was a red flag for a lot of people. That really caught a lot of people off guard. I don't know what to make of that yet, but do I like Tyler Bertuzzi?

Do I like Max Domi? Yes, I do. Ryan Reeves, is he going to fill a certain part of that mantra that may be tougher to play against? Of course he is. Is it going to be the right elixir? If that was a problem that Brad identified, then yes, it will be. Is it possible that their issues are deeper than that we won't know until we get into the season to be honest with you

lots i just want to touch a little bit on this ryan o'reilly stuff and no question is he's got an impeccable reputation so there's some guys that would walk and you'd say good riddance, but his leaving, would that cause Brad Tree Living to take a deeper dive into looking at the organization and having certain things readdressed on why he's adamant that he doesn't want to be a Leaf? I think that it absolutely will, Kipper. The issue with that is you have all these different strategies and paths you need to follow to be the leader of the club, to be the general manager like Brad is. And unfortunately, some of the things you won't be able to answer when you're coming in, some of the issues you may already know the answer for,

but you're forced to just be an optimist and say, look, if we go this path, this will give us the best chance. Brad may or may not think, and I haven't asked him, so I couldn't tell you, that that'll be the answer and we're going to have a fantastic season and everything's going to be lovely for the Toronto Maple Leafs but I have no doubt he's put his best foot forward he's looked at every possible avenue he could take this team and this is what he believes will give them the best chance to actually win I still and I like I thought Kyle did a lot of great things there. I'm still waiting to see some reallocation of their assets

to build that decor a little stronger, maybe to strengthen their goaltending. And that doesn't really touch on what I'm alluding to, which is how strong is their locker room really at the end of the day? Because that's the one thing that you can look at as an analyst and say, it's clear that Toronto is thinking this just by the moves they've made. Never mind what they're saying. All the GMs say things that they don't necessarily mean at times.

They're just saying what is the best option to say. I assume all the fans in Toronto know this. They've just seen it for too long. But at the end of the day, you'll get more evidence as to what the answers are as this season plays out for Toronto. I do think they'll have a wonderful regular season. I think there's too much talent on that team. Not too Kipper.

But it'll all come down to the playoffs again. And how about the rest of their division and how they're shaping up? You know, Boston Bruins had to make some significant changes this year and Tampa Bay too. Do you think the division is going to look significantly different? I guess you could consider some real rising of the Buffalo Sabres, Red Wings, Senators, depending on where you sit on some of those teams. Yeah, no doubt about it. When I look at Toronto, I do think they're going to have a great regular season. When I look at Tampa, I do think they're maybe regressing. Obviously, all the

players that they just let go, I mean, they lose Killorn, Maroon, Ross Colton, Bellamar, you know, and they brought in a lot of guys that, you know, people kind of went, huh? But that's what they had available to them. So I would say they're in a bit of a regression mode, and yet I'd never count that team out. Ottawa, I think, should be on the upswing, although I'm not quite ready to say they're there yet to necessarily make the playoffs. Montreal, to me, is going to be what everybody would expect them to be. Marty St. Louis will do a great job. The Panthers are a wild card.

We know what they did last year. Detroit isn't there yet for me. Buffalo is an interesting team, and they could be the one big surprise. So the division's still a bear. I didn't talk about Boston, but Boston will find a way. They've got a lot of history. They have a very strong room. Feels like their guys tend to get the most out of everybody in their organization.

We saw teams lots like Carolina readdress their goaltending situation on minimal deals. Former Toronto Maple Leaf Anderson gets a two-year deal at 3.4. Ranta comes back, I think, at 1.5, if I'm not mistaken. Anyways, we're seeing some short-term deals. And then there's Corpus Salo, who finds a way to get five years out of the Ottawa Senators. And no question, Pierre Dorian made it abundantly clear he had to take care of his goaltending situation. But in this market, five years for Corpus Salo, that one had me shaking my head a little bit. Yeah, and I can see why that's pretty aggressive.

You know, the money wasn't the end of the world, but the term became a big part of the issue for getting him signed. No one likes to talk about it, but not every player wants to be in Canada. That's just the reality of it for different reasons in different markets. No, not every player wants to be in the U.S. either, to be completely transparent. I've been shocked, to be honest with you guys, to see the players kind of running out of Calgary because I just think Calgary is such a wonderful city. And even if you're a U.S.-born player like I was, there's a lot of avenues available to you to not be as penal tax-wise. So I don't totally get it, but I feel like part of that deal might've been based somewhat off of that, that you, you know, you get these guys that have options, clearly Corposalo did,

and you got to convince them to come to your market. It kind of sucks when you have to do that, but it is what it is. It's just the way the league is right now everybody wants to go to Tampa, Dallas, Vegas, Seattle, Arizona believe it or not their tax rates are dropping fast there's a lot of similarities if you look at all those markets it doesn't mean you don't get good players it just means sometimes you got to pay a little bit of a premium and yet I would say to be totally fair to Canada, that because of the Connor McDavid effect, they have been very, very efficient in getting quality players to go there for good deals. Is there a team, when you look around after free agency, that you think did the best? I think Colorado did a really nice job getting some additions in there.

I know it's tough at this time of year to make those sort of assessments, but any team that you like what they did in particular? I definitely thought that Colorado did an excellent job to the point where coming out of the moves that they made, I said, okay, this team is back. They took one swing, and Ryan Johanson, do they have the players that can support him to play the way they need him to play? That'll be a big part of it in the end, but I do like what they did,

and I do like their team. Miles Wood, to me, is a guy that could really help them where they need help on just fielding players that are above average in their role, and I think that Miles Wood can definitely be that for them, so I'm pretty excited about that. I love their decor, so that's exciting. Can Gorgie have a really strong year and carry them?

Yes. To me, Colorado has kind of solidified themselves as that team that is the team we thought they would be last year, even though they still won their division. But Colorado wasn't the beast we thought it would be last year. I think they have a chance to be that again. And then, you know, you look at all the different strategies that are being employed around the league.

We already talked about Tampa. They had to go a different direction. They just don't have the money. You look at Boston and some of the things they're doing, shorter-term deals, trying to get guys in there, still hoping for guys to come back. Nobody really blew the doors off for me this year. I was a little bit perplexed by the direction that Nashville went in.

Just couldn't quite understand, you know, where the disjointedness was. They traded Matias Ekholm, buyout Duchesne and Johansson, and then they signed Ryan O'Reilly. Didn't all make sense to me, but it'll be fascinating to see how it plays out. We could probably roll all that up into a ball and say Barry Trotz has made a really firm statement that character counts and culture matters to him, and maybe this is the beginning of a really great run for them. Not even mentioning a Luke Shen contract at 2.75 times three,

if I'm not mistaken. That was huge money. All right, Lotz, listen, we got to let you go, pal, but really appreciate the effort and the effort that you gave us throughout the season. Always welcomed on this show, man. Thanks for doing this. Always my pleasure, guys.

Thanks for having me on. It's Brian Lawton. So one of the goaltenders that did hit pay dirt, JB, is Sorokin, pal, on the island. Eight times, 8.250 AAV. Wow. That's big money. Yeah. I mean, like, I love it. I love that he's 28 and one of the five guys in the league. I trust to be an elite goaltender with some consistency.

The only thing is like, you know, is there any chance to get surplus value on that? Like, is there any chance he plays like a $13 million goalie? Like probably not. If you're elite, you're worth about what he's getting paid. So it's a lot of pressure to play well for a long time. But to get a guy like him locked up as a staple of the team, I'm okay with that. I actually was wondering, Kip, you know, with some of the news around the league right now and us talking about Matt Murray,

do you think there's a possibility that they unload Matt Murray and then decide to do something like bring in John Gibson, not re-sign? You know, Gibson is apparently not going to go back to the Anaheim Ducks. Last three years, his numbers aren't great. Makes $6 million or $6.4 million. Yeah, they're not. They're not even good.

Multi-year deals left, right? They're horrendous. They have four years left. Yeah. But people like the guy. Listen, he's got a reputation. They believe that the team sucked and it hasn't been his fault. Then I don't want it to happen.

I don't think there's a scenario in Toronto where I see them going any place but trying to lock down a valued contract moving forward with Samsonov and Joseph Wall. I wonder if the Ducks did retention of a couple million and you traded a Murray, that way

they're done with a big money goalie right away. I don't know. I don't love it myself. Trying to talk myself into weird things. You know who didn't like that Sorokin contract is Connor Hellybuck. You don't think he liked it? No. We were talking on the show forever about how he was the next $10 million guy.

I don't think he can make – well, maybe close is the right word, but I think he can make well maybe close is the right but i think he can't make a dollar above that if you're if you're the team that's negotiating with him right like that's kind of sets the well you can't all you got to do is all you got to do is get somebody to see it your way and you can most definitely get it i think he's going after Vasilevsky's number, buddy. 9-5? Yeah, and then settle in for maybe 8-5, 8-7, which would still come above Soroka.

In Winnipeg, do you think? He's done there. They'll never pay him that in Winnipeg. And he doesn't believe that they can win in Winnipeg, so he wants to go somewhere where he thinks he can win in the next year or two. So, okay, so do you guys want to get more into this Ryan O'Reilly conversation? Give me the facts. Give me the facts on it. I just, I don't know where you're going to go other than to speculate what his issues were.

And I think we can do that, but, I mean, I'm not sure it would solve anything. Okay. What do you think? I mean, it's a pretty hot-button issue at the moment. It's okay. Are you insulted, Sammy, as Leaf Nation, that this guy doesn't want to be a Leaf? It's his hometown. And he says, thanks thanks but no thanks is

that what you're getting into it's like you can't believe that not everybody wants to be a leaf no it's not even that it's just what is it i don't know i you know there's conversations around the the friction with him and the potentially the coach and you know like he believes maybe adjustments that were, that maybe could have been done publicly. Did he not mention that after the season was over? Yeah, I just, I think it's a worthwhile conversation as to why, and we can speculate, we're doing Sports Talk Radio here,

as why he's offered the more money from a, offered the same money, apparently apparently from a way better team that just happens to be his hometown team that he always dreamt of playing of and he goes and plays for a crappy team with not a ton of future like i think there's a conversation there fellas yeah sure i mean why sorry the quote from tree Living on it was something like, sometimes when a guy, what is it? Do we have a Tree Living clip on it? No, I don't have the clip.

Not this one. I don't have the clip. But what Tree Living said was we had a pretty good idea which players would move on. I had a really good talk with Ryan. He loved playing here, loved our players, loved the room. But sometimes when you're from this area, there's a lot more to it. Like maybe he thinks his dad's a jerk and he just doesn't want to be around.

You know, I don't know. You never know what family dynamics are at play or what it may be. He could be the media here as he gets towards the tail end of his career. I wouldn't want my career to be in decline in front of the Toronto media either. I don't know. Could be your name you know I mean even if Brad said that he

you know he loved all of those things and he didn't really love them you know he wouldn't come clean anyways on that right so it just it's going to leave everybody speculating on what people want to just say it's a crappy room or, you know, he hated the coach.

Whatever the case is, Sheldon's coming back. Things that probably Brendan Shanahan or Brad Tree Living would have liked to see done differently next time have already been talked about and addressed. So, you know, the bottom line is he didn't have as much fun or didn't get as much enjoyment as being a Toronto Maple Leaf as he probably thought it would have been coming home, and he had the choice to leave, and he exercised it. And internally, if there are some issues behind the scenes

that maybe he addressed confidentially to Brad and Brad could fix moving forward, it should be done privately, not in front of the media or the fan base. Yeah, I just will say that I think the public perception on him changed a little bit from Lees Nation, for sure. On Ryan O'Reilly? For sure.

What, though? What changed? He's not a winner anymore? Well, they're fans, and it's a little bit offensive to a lot of Leafs fans, I think. There you go. I asked you that at the beginning of the segment. I said, are you offended? But I'm not saying i really am i

think they maybe dodged a bit of a bullet with that contract i don't think that contract is going to age that beautifully but i do think that you know you look at it and you say like if he goes if he goes somewhere else where there's potential to win it's one thing but for him to just take a contract with someone where it's like yeah yeah, okay, you're going to go suck in Nashville for four years? I would have liked to have seen Ryan O'Reilly stay. For sure. And add a different dynamic to that center ice position. If the Leafs, albeit, they can add toughness on the wings all they want.

Am I comfortable with Austin and John Tavares as a 1-2 centerman in the playoffs again? No, I'm not. I'm not. And Kampf in the third slot. So between Austin, JT, and Kampf, they don't have a mean bone in their body. How far are you going in the playoffs with three centermen who none of them have one confrontational bone in their body? Yeah, I know.

And that's, I mean, is Ryan O'Reilly a big-time confrontational guy? But at least he's... Lady Bing candidate. Yeah, yeah. But I just, I think the perception has changed on him here. And he probably knew that, but he was welcomed with absolute open arms with his fan base. He was absolutely beloved by this fan base. Not anyone said a bad thing about him the whole way through.

And, you know, he was loved here. There's no question that people wanted him back. He came up with a big tying goal to send it in overtime, man. 100%. They don't get past the first round without Ryan O'Reilly. 100% agree. I completely agree. And that's why seeing him walk out the door where you know it just hurts

it hurts it's just you know i see i see your point sam like like nashville is like a cool place to live and they got lots of music and he has a stanley cup already and it feels like he's just going to play there you know like not chasing a cup or not because it's meaningful to him it just seems like a cool place to go play so i get why it's like oh well he left for not because he had something better but because he didn't want to be here and that changes things i think i think a ton of leaf fans it's just kind of make gets them in their feelings about the team they cheer for and the core they cheer for and the coach they cheer for that this guy was like well i mean the mean, the fact that. 4.5 by 4. No, no, I'm talking about to trade for him.

A first, a second, a third. I think Achari was in there too. Yeah, he was. You know, first, second, third, and fourth for him and Achari. To watch them walk out the door for nothing. Yeah, but that was always a risk, Kipper. Like, I don't, I'm not getting on Kyle Dubas for that nothing. That was always a risk Kipper. Like I don't, I'm not getting on Kyle Dubas for that trade.

It was a great trade. And like you said, they don't get to the point that they haven't been in this whole era without them, but just it's, it's a commentary on the Leafs to see him go like a guy who was like a, supposedly the gritty winner, you know,

leadership core guy who comes here, has a cup of coffee and decides that he's on his way out the door because he you know where there's smoke there's fire like you can speculate all you want but there's too much crap floating around about this for there not to be something to it it's a commentary on this room and on this leaf burned on ryan o'reilly so yeah it's not it's not a good track record for this team at least felino went somewhere where he had a chance to win 30 games well listen he signed with the bruins because patrice bergeron called him who called him on the on the uc sorrows column like give me a break like

it's just it's a surprising move it's strange it's a strange one it's strange it is all right we can move on i just i thought i'll just say the tree living did imply it was external things not internal things at the leaf so he obviously doesn't want to say what maybe maybe o'reilly's ex-girlfriend was ringing his doorbell in the middle of the night and bothering his family like we literally don't know what's up with the you know you don't know you're right all good but I'm just saying it's it's a tough pill to swallow for myself and a lot of Leaf fans bunting love bunting all right um three years eh not four we called it we called it a long time ago 4.5 to 5 and i sent out a tweet saying that uh it's equivalent to 5.3 if he signed in toronto right when you factor in uh the taxes and maybe cost a living yeah i mean it's great you know great for bunting uh i wouldn't want the least to give him that deal

but i do think he's going to give them the value on that. It's just not how I see the Leafs needing to spend their money, but he's going to give you four and a half of value the next three years, age 27, 28, 29. I like that for Carolina. That's not what I expected for a destination for Michael Bunting. Me either. It's really not.

I hate when they get guys that you know like them signing him you know they are usually have a pretty good track record of identifying talent with donnie waddell and eric tulsky and all the whole team over there they have a pretty good read on guys like they got orlov on that two-year deal i loved that contract like outside of the weird goaltending again for them, I really like what they did in the offseason. I really did. And I think it's – I think he slotted into that third hole with maybe a Jordan stall.

I mean, they've got Sveshnikov and Teravainen, I think, patrolling the first two spots on the left side. So, I mean, it could be an expensive third line winner but yeah on a championship team that's that's where i had him slotted for sure and you can see him you know i thought sammy he'd go to a team that's trying to turn the corner it's detroit it's a you know ottawa it's a team that has cap space and needs a guy. But, yeah, this is interesting, going to an established team that couldn't get over a hump. Speaking of Detroit.

I know. Let me take a victory lap on the show. Justin Hall, three years, $3.4 million per season. It's almost like he's a pretty good defenseman i agree with you borny that he is good and that he was underrated the entire time he was here i am still stunned by that aav stunned by that like you've got to be a little surprised i think i said he'd get three million a year we got tape of me saying he'll get three a year yeah all right he played 20 minutes a night for the Leafs. He's a right-handed shot.

He defends the blue line. He breaks the puck out. He plays on the penalty kill. He plays 20 minutes a night. His team was good. He's a good player. I understand that nothing he does is fun to watch, and he's probably not taking a bad team to a good team,

but, yeah, I don't want to pay him $3.5 million either. I'd probably rather have him at 3.5 than Klingberg at 4. You could have signed him, JB, at the beginning of the year, you could have signed him for 2.75 for three years. And I'll tell you what, if you ask me, I'd take Justin Hall back and Achari over the four plus million for Klingberg. Oh, no question. Yeah. You know, Justin Hall is one of those guys, though, that he just had worn out his welcome with the fans.

Like, I just don't think you could have announced that deal and you know hey we re-react hall for three times two and a half and leafs fans would have lost it it would have been what's the opposite like a parade like it would be like a it would be like a funeral procession no they'd have yeah they'd have the torches out on young street going to they could march into scotia bank arena to get to brad trill living they couldn't do it you're right the the the relationship with the fan base and him was far too fractured and i know you don't like make deals because of that but like at three it has to weigh in yeah at 3.4 if they signed him for three years 3.4, if they signed him for three years, 3.4, this city would have lost their minds.

Let's just have a quick talk about Steve Iserman and how all the draft picks in Tampa Bay had to come through for that team to become the dynasty they were. Because the UFA signings right now in Detroit for him are Andrew Kopp at 5 times 5.6, Comfer at 5 by 5, Hall at 3 by 3.4. 5 by 5 for Comfer? Yeah.

Yeah. Comfer is a 30-point guy a year with the exception of last season, and they're paying him as if he's moving forward to score them 50 to 60 points. I'm not sure he's that guy. He's, you know, Alex Kerfoot, essentially. And really, that's a nice review. And then Ben Sherratt got four by 4.75 from Detroit. Like Stevie Wise, UFA deals, not great. By the way, Philip Zadina on waivers right now.

And who was taken just after him? Quinn Hughes in the next pick? Yeah. Ouchy. The Iser plan is in disarray. Their second pair in Detroit's Goss Despair

and Justin Hall. Oh! Fire and ice, baby. Yang and yang. Here we go. You go that way, I'll go this way. There'll be some events out there with that. Around the league, Blake Wheeler.

Top six guy. You want to go Kerfoot signing, getting all his money back that he made with the Leafs for two more years, 3.75, if I'm not mistaken. Sayonara, pal. You know, I lived in Arizona, and the same dollar amount there, here, there's a massive raise for Kerfoot.

You know, this is like he almost doubled his salary versus living in toronto so go ahead and play in mullet arena put that the centerpiece of one of the worst french trades in franchise history uh he always he always wore that he could never get over that he was always measured against that and it just never worked it was terrible sorry i know he scored a huge playoff goal but other than that not a lot of good memories surprised blake wheeler ended up with the rangers that to me is a rich guy choosing what city he wants to live in yeah you kip i mean that's like i'm gonna play in the east coast New York City and a chance to win a

cup let's go yeah I I just don't know in that room who's who's who's gonna tell Blake Wheeler you know just to kind of cool it every once in a while which he he needed in Winnipeg and he's not gonna try that I think I wanted him in a stronger room that, you know, like a Brad Marchand could kind of tell Blake Wheeler every once in a while, you know, chill out. I don't know anybody in the Ranger room that could do that. Because sometimes Blake can get ahead of himself sometimes. And, listen, he's a guy who likes to play offense and go forward uh zabinijad likes to play offense go north uh panarin north uh is tarasenko going to be back i don't know they just have so many guys that just try to score i don't know that team doesn't

look like an unbelievable two-way club to me so uh i don't know how much that moves the needle positively for them who had enough good offensive players. Anything else strike you guys throughout the league? What about the Dubas contracts? I thought Pittsburgh did an awesome job. Awesome. Listen, they're making noise for sure. I just, I, listen, Riley Smith I thought was a great pickup. I envisioned him as a guy that can play with Austin and Mitch.

Now, granted, I think he's at 5 million and Bertuzzi's at 5-5, but let's just wait and see if you can hold on to Bertuzzi past 12 months. But Riley Smith, I thought, was a very good pickup by Kyle Dubas. I mean, getting Matt Nieto for $900,000, I think he's a nice hockey player. Noel Achari, great depth guy. Lars Eller is an awesome 3C physical guy. Ryan Graves on D is a stable, you know, like a big, trustworthy defensive player. I thought Pittsburgh got a lot better in the last few days.

It was actually a little scary watching. And then you see the thing that has handicapped Dubas all along is goaltending. And he gives Jari 5x5+, a 5.4 almost that that almost negated all the good he did for that team yeah that contract is scary like that could be i thought he was going after matt murray for a second yeah god he should have that don't you think that contract has the potential to be an albatross immediately like Like, Jari was horrible last year. And I guess he was hurt, right? That's what came out the offseason,

that he had been playing through injury or whatever. But, like, if I'm a Penns fan, I'm like, yeah, you got us some good depth guys, got us a solid D-man, but you just locked up this guy that killed us every night for $5.5 million. Like, that's a scary one. Yeah.

If you take a look at the organization as a whole not many assets uh coming through the system and like it better work it better work because i'm not sure what his plan b is he doesn't have a ton of first rounders to give away here moving forward and there is nothing in the system. And what do you do with Jake Gensel? Do you want to give him, Timo Meier, $8.5 million? Love Gensel. He's going to want a very, very big number.

You know, it's funny, you know, a guy like Jari, and I think his numbers ended up shaking out okay last season, but you're right with all these guys have a case to be made that they're worth X. You know, Jari had a case to be made that how is he not worth Jack Campbell money? How is he not worth, you know? It's fine. But who else out there is willing to give him that, JP? It's not.

But I'm saying that about Gensel, too. I'm not giving him Timo Mayer money, not in a million years. But he can make the case he can because he has the points. What these guys have to do now is prove that they can go get it somewhere else. And I'm not saying they can't, but it's hard with no money in the system. I mean, that Grandlin contract that Pittsburgh has, $5 million for two more years. They got a lot of big numbers on their books, man.

Raquel for five years, $5 million. Smith, five years, $5 million. Rust, five years, $5 million. He's locked in. Ryan Graves, big guy, big strong guy. Really trustworthy, JB. I like him. I like him.

We'll see. We'll see how it shakes out for Kyle as he tries to win the Stanley Cup in October. All right. Just like that, two hours, guys. Flies by almost as fast as one hour. Almost. Maybe not. Thanks to Gord Stelic and Brian Lawton.

We will be back tomorrow for another two-hour show. Just one tomorrow. Really appreciate everybody sticking around. Sammy, any last words? Got to go. Bye- words? Got to go. Bye-bye. Got to go. See you tomorrow, folks.

We're right back. Real Kipper and Born.