Real Kyper & Bourne - Friday's Fallout

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off the week with some fallout following the Dubas decision, the poor optics of the move, Dubas final statement to Leafs’ nation, the fallout of Jason Spezza’s decision and the idea of Auston Matthews not resigning without Dubas. The guys wrap up with tonight’s Game 3 matchup between the Golden Knights and the Stars.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Hope everybody had a good weekend. Long weekend. Dick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Eric Brandeo, David Sissboomba, Sammy McKee. We've got summer hours. Summer hours, pal. There's worse things than this. Two to three from here on in.

I don't know where to start. First of all, I'm going to sound like I have a lisp. Yeah, there is actually so much to get to. I'm stressed out already about the clock. Don't, don't. I just want to explain that if I sound a little different, I've got an old hockey injury. I've had my bottom teeth capped for the last 34 years.

And they've been fantastic until I bit into something and broke and fractured my tooth underneath the cap. Oh, no. And now they've got to go dig it out and find it and get rid of it. And I'm in for, like, I will be in in a dentist chair for the next year i think are you my buddy stan promised me he'll fix it are you when you're going to get it fixed uh 5 15 today oh yeah well i'm gonna start i don't know i don't know where i am i don't know what's gonna happen i don't know how I don't know where I am. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know how fat my lip's going to be.

Yeah, yeah, okay. But we'll play it one dentist visit at a time. Was it your mom's baklava? What'd you bite into? Ah, man. A rib. A rib? I might have bit something a little earlier that started the process.

A bowl of Werther's just eating cereal? I don't know. But we're going to get through it. We are. We've got one hour to dissect where this Toronto Maple Leafs storyline is at this present moment. You know, I started Friday's show,

and I believe I used the term, if you've been sleeping under a rock in the last few hours. I see where you're going. If you've been sleeping under a rock and you haven't heard, Kyle Dubas is no longer the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. You weren't literally sleeping under a rock on Friday, but you were close. I'm not as close as you can be.

You were really close to sleeping under a rock. You know what's funny is so we were away camping, my wife and I, you know, Leafs are out. It's a week later. They've done their presser. Seems like Dubas is coming back. Safe time to go. So we turned my phone off.

Our moms were in town to watch the kids. I turned my phone right off. So when I powered it back on Saturday morning to drive home, I was like, oh, come on. And then I've been consuming everything possible since. So you were literally the last guy to know in Toronto. Yeah, quite possibly. And I've just picked my jaw up off the floor. You could be in broadcasting for the next 70 years, and you won't ever get a day like that.

Gifted a GM of the team I've been covering for like a decade, fired in really unbelievable fashion, and I was toasting marshmallows. Not that the Leaf misery is something that we can gloat about, right? But from a broadcasting perspective, that was the greatest theater you could ever find for live content or live radio, podcast, I don't know. Sammy?

I will say this. At least I got the Dubas presser, which also was full of great drama. So I got the Dubas side of it. Where would Monday to Friday rank for you, Sammy? It's number one, I think.

I had some night shows where I did after the Jays made all those trades in 2015 where they got Tulewitzki and they got all those guys and they got all those guys. And that was like that. And they got David Price. I remember doing an evening show producing with Roger Lajoie, taking calls and all that kind of stuff. I worked the Toronto Raptors championship broadcast when they won.

So that's obviously up there. But I just I've never like the second Shani sat down to start that press conference, I looked into there at Gordon and Kipper with just this look on my face because the way he walked out there, the way he sat down, the tone he started with, it was pretty clear pretty quickly. I've watched it a couple times now. It was going to be something different than we're used to with the Leafs. Yeah. Right?

Like, it was pretty clear. Okay, we are on the clock for an hour show now from here on in. So I say, JB, you're going to be our grapes in his heyday where something can break on a Monday or Tuesday, but we just cannot put it to bed until we heard from grapes on a Saturday night. You are that guy right now. We need to hear from you for the first time.

And someone that has worked with Kyle Dubas under the Marlies. I mean, where do you want to start on this story? I will start with disappointment at how weak the whole thing is. It is weak in every aspect to me, Kip. Like Dubas looks weak. Shanahan looks weak. The whole thing to me,ip like dubas looks weak shanahan looks weak the whole thing to me pathetic's a bit much but not one person to me dug in and made a decision like there were hard decisions to be made shanahan and mlse could have said we don't want kyle dubas we've decided the

success wasn't there it's not enough he's gone's gone. They could have said, we want him. He's our guy. Got to have him. You know, we've left ourself with no choice at this point. Got to have him. They didn't decide either way. Dubas could have said,

I want to be here. This is my everything. And he didn't, he could say, I want to go. This isn't it for me. And he didn't. And everyone comes off looking wishy-washy and emotional and where you're

looking for professionals and leaders, everyone came out looking worse. Yeah, no one can argue with that. I think that's truly bang on. Well, that's good. Because I've had a lot of time to think about this. But I am truly like, I can't. I know that my understanding is you rightfully, by the way,

went pretty good at Dubas and the decisions he made on friday um yes yeah and uh i mean for me my the emotions caught up to me and you know just from a someone that's been around the game for so long and listen he he had the dream job. Like, there was just a part of me that could check being a broadcaster's side and just saying, Kyle, like, you know, not that I would physically wring your neck, but I would in any other way possible. Right. To say, what are you doing? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. If, in fact, and and a lot starting to surface now because we know kyle had a lot of friends in the media and there's pro kyle dubas here and then there's not yeah but the sense is a lot of people that are pro kyle are are spinning this theory that he wanted more control. He wanted more autonomy. He was frustrated with how slow the process was to get his message across. Like all of that.

And again, just to go back to why I would say to him what are you doing is that like you're you're not 55 60 and you know you're you're looking at you know the back end of your career you've got the whole your whole career ahead of you so it's not perfect so at times you are told no yeah we answer to bosses here yeah right there's you know ryan there's dan there's you know go up the food chain greg sansoni those guys come and tell you yes or no on something like then that's the answer that's called you know uh a pecking order that's called the uh you know the the chain of command i don't know what you want to phrase it but that's the way it works yeah and kyle if if if you if you were tired about not having more leeway then then use your right to exercise the last year of your deal and move on yes but it didn't need to get this ugly and and to me it was almost

you know like ah you know it's not exactly how i want it but maybe it would be if you paid me more if i had this you know as you mentioned more autonomy or whatever it may be and then it goes to the other side where you know shanahan had left himself in a position with it had to be kyle or the franchise to stand here holding the bag with no GM and huge decisions to make in 40 days. And he got emotional and he got his feelings hurt by, you know, Kyle wanting to go about things differently or wanting more money or whatever. But they left themselves in a position where you can't afford to get emotional and let the guy go because now you're the one who's the president of the team. And you got nothing. You're doing interviews.

I think that's where I feel differently today than I did on Friday when it happened would just be how I'm looking at Shanahan. And I thought that like the early narrative was he was getting kind of a pass in terms of this. But I do think that he plays a pretty big part in this as well in terms of this but i do think that he plays a pretty big part in this as well in terms of like you said off the top there borny it not looking good on either side i think ultimately you know he he is the guy at the top of this thing where you say okay you know that's where you needed your leadership to come from and i think a lot of people understand why he was frustrated at Dubas and why. I could see, by the way, the way it played out making me mad as well.

But that's when you're the guy at the top and it can't show. You know, you have to just dig in and keep that behind closed doors. I did a hit on breakfast television today with Sid. And to your point, I just said, listen, at the end of the day, Kyle's gone. You're interviewing. But this is on Brendan Shanahan's watch. The buck is supposed to stop with him. Yeah.

This was left open and vulnerable for a potential blow up and to your point it was it was on his watch so he has to be held accountable to say that this is what presidents are supposed to avoid yes that's exactly how i feel and i think at the start of last year the board probably said we don't want to sign them and maybe brendan did but that, the board probably said, we don't want to sign him. And maybe Brendan did, but that at that point, you have to say, we either have to sign them or not keep them.

I do hold Brendan accountable because he is the president, but this was started by Kyle. This was started when he didn't get a contract. No extension. No, it was started he didn't get a contract. No. Extension. No, it was started Monday. It was started Monday. No.

Yes. Listen, anything that started without a contract is just business. It's just business. It is business, but the business people left themselves holding the bag. Which is fine. And if you're Kyle and you want to say, okay, I'm not happy. And to your point, you know, we talked about this all year. Is he stubborn enough to say, you know what, I'll go somewhere else. But that's not the way it played out, JB.

It played out much differently because of the way Kyle acted on Monday. Like at the end of the day, however, Brendan Shanahan as president came to the conclusion, I want to offer you a five-year deal, and I'm going to pay you four plus million, and I've got 22 million, 25 million on the table. Here it is. However he arrived to that,

it's his right as president to give it to you in september it's his right to give it to you in january it's it's his right to give it to you a week after the season's over that's his prerogative he is the president he is in control if you choose to not accept it then just do it quietly and then go on your way and say, we could not come to terms. If, if the news came out that Brendan Shanahan wanted him back, but Kyle said, uh, we couldn't come to terms and that's why I left. No one would have said, boo, it would have been, oh, Brendan blew it. Or no, the best thing that Brendan did was not give him his contract because he's never

been, uh, ever a guy that threatened to take the team to a Stanley Cup final or win the Stanley Cup and he doesn't deserve it and you would have had that 50-50 but it wouldn't have been ugly like this when Kyle decided to play games and overplay his hand yeah is when this thing got. It's when it got ugly, Kip. But if it's his prerogative to offer him that money when he offered him the money. But when you drag the year out and you say, we don't know if we want you.

We don't know. We'll just see how the year goes and then we'll make our, it's my prerogative, I'll give it to you when I want. They get to March and they say, I think, you know, we think we're ready. We think we're probably ready to do this and then you're like okay you know we're going to do what we've got kyle and then you don't get a deal done and all of a sudden it's may you your prerogative has left you so if that guy does what

you're talking about gets emotional makes it whatever then all of a sudden the only option you've left yourself is gone so you've left yourself no avenues or no plan because you've decided to kick it down the road if you're going to kick it down the road you better have plans yeah if your one plan doesn't work out because you're the president that's what happens now now the focus is off kyle and now it's all on brendan and the other thing i said uh today on the morning show was he needs to fix it. It's a mess right now. It's got people talking about Ballard years and all of that in the 80s. And no, Brendan, you're the president.

The buck stops with you. You have to fix this now. And apparently he'll get his opportunity when he hires whoever he hires. I just can't imagine a world, Kip, though, where you're like, okay, Brad tree living. You're a guy. This is Sandra. She's your secretary. This is, you know, whoever trade Mitch Marner.

You got 30 days, you know, like I just, you don't even know where your office is. It just, so my point here is that the things you may have wanted to do to the physical roster, you already hear them saying, Shanahan talked to the team. Now it may be more likely that all four of the core members come back and maybe they trade them later. I mean, you can't, those guys have no trade clauses. So all of a sudden they'll have leverage. The teams you're trading with will have leverage.

You put your team in a worse spot. No, no, no question about that. And it's not who's at fault more and who it's not. It doesn't matter. You hit it right on the's at fault more and who it's not it doesn't matter you you you hit it right on the nail at the beginning of the show where you say hey guys there's blood on both hands here and listen i i get the kyle stuff too it was very strange to me the more i thought about it to go up there in that press conference unless he's trying to kind of haggle which i know you talked about you know using that press conference as a bit of negotiating doing the whole i don't

know if i want to be here i don't know maybe if the pot's sweet enough and i'm i get the idea here where it's like yeah but does it need to be perfect to be the president of the gm or sorry the gm of the leafs at age 37 after not making it past the second round? Like maybe it can be not perfect for a bit more. Oh my goodness. You know? Absolutely. So he's trying to create this extra leverage. Yep.

Which, you know, obviously blew up in his face. And so, you know, it kind of reminds me of like a divorce where both people are like, I want 55-45. And instead of doing that, they end up giving a third to the lawyers going to court. No one gets what they want. It's a mess. It's no leadership here.

It's just, again, it's not uncommon for someone to leave at the end of his contract, i.e. a player, in this case, a general manager. It just didn't need to play out like this so publicly. No. It just didn't need to play out like this so publicly. No. And, again, if Brendan Shanahan was this controlling, then Kyle doesn't even get the opportunity to go up on the podium on Monday. Like, Brendan told him, don't go up. Yeah, wait until we got answers. Don't go up't don't go no no no i'm going up like could could your boss or my boss stop us from doing something here uh yeah but

brent brendan brendan didn't stop he didn't stop kyle from going up right Right. Kyle said, I'm not taking your advice, Brendan, even though you're my president and I answer to you, I'm not taking your advice. So all of a sudden, all these stories come out about being this control freak and not allowing him to do stuff and trades. And I'm like, was there really a lot of evidence of that with some of the moves that he made like you know like i mean this trade deadline you yourself said several times it looked more

like brendan than kyle yeah yeah no no no question about that but you know maybe maybe he saw the light this time around that he can't win with the playoffs. I have no idea. Yeah. I mean, I'm just, when you got two hours, as you know, we throw stuff out there. Yes, we do. But, you know, Brendan Shanahan and the late Brian Marchman were buddies. Like, you traded him, you traded his son for Malgan. that doesn't have brendan's fingerprints all over it he had freedom to go get matt murray it felt it felt like the freedom was getting taken away

well you mean half the roster was sue greyhounds for a little while there seems like he had a bit of freedom right which if you're starting to lose that freedom you're starting to take it away from the gm the second to me you're saying i need to you know vet my gm's decision making you might need a new gm and that might be time for the definitive decision to have been made earlier i i think regardless of how we got here in terms of this week and the weirdness and everything that kyle was that he laid out in his press conference and brendan laid out in his press conference like i don't think this is a bad result like they have not gotten what they should have gotten for over five seasons now with the toronto maple leafs Like, regardless, maybe there's no plan. Maybe there's panic time in terms of getting these guys signed or traded or whatever.

But to me, like, this was a long enough time seeing somebody's plan to not have any results for there to be a new person running the team. Like, I don't think, like, I know what everyone's worries are, and I know that looking ahead, the unknown seems scary, but I don't feel like it's not merited for him to be gone regardless of how it happened. I know what everyone's worries are, and I know that looking ahead, the unknown seems scary, but I don't feel like it's not merited for him to be gone regardless of how it happened. I don't think anyone's making that case. No, I am making that case.

I'm making that case because the decision was made from a weakness, not a strength, and that affects me about where this thing's headed. It is. The Leafs season ended May 12th. I think it was the 23rd today or something like that. They're doing interviews still for this position with a very tight timeline,

like this Austin Matthews deal and the no trade clauses. You know, I know Brandon said he's not going to rush things, but you kind of got to rush things. So your point, Sammy, if he fires him on May 13th with a plan, it makes sense well that tells you everything you need to know on how surprised he was he thought he had his general manager at the beginning of the week and if you are that sure that you think that you better you better be right that's a very valid point but we we'll see where it lies ahead.

Now, Kyle Dubas did release a statement for the first time since being let go. Sammy, you want to read it? Sure. Let's see how this goes. While I understand there's interest surrounding the circumstances of my departure, I will not get into the specifics of what I consider to be reasonable and consistent, but private discussions. In the days that I felt needed to assess and evaluate my own view to the future, both with

my respect to the necessary direction of the club and ensuring that I had the full support of my family for what I knew would be required in the offseason and the years to follow, the organization, as is their right to do, decided to go in a different direction. In the nine seasons since being afforded the opportunity to work in the organization, as is their right to do, decided to go in a different direction. In the nine seasons since being afforded the opportunity to work in the National Hockey League for the Toronto Maple Leafs, we have had the chance to learn a lot and have grown

significantly through the ups and downs. We have watched our family double in size while developing meaningful relationships which will last a lifetime. It was an honor to be able to work in such an inspiring place with dedicated, loyal people and an extremely passionate fan base. The impact of that and the relationships with all the people at MLSC from the board of directors through the ushers at Scotiabank Arena will forever hold a dear place in our hearts. To the players, coaches, and staff at the facility each day,

past and present, thank you for your passion and commitment at every step of the journey together. It was a tremendous pleasure to work alongside you each day. We will roll from here, the Dubas family. Now, when he signed the Dubas family, did he dip his kid's hand in paint and put a handprint on it? I used to do that all the time. Yes, signed by Theo. Sometimes I'll draw a little paw for Lewis.

Clearly, first of all, my first thought is this is a good move by Kyle. You gotta say something well no he's saying something without saying something took the saying something took the high road well not really kind of no higher higher is i don't want to go into more detail that could maybe paint me in a further corner than i already am that's what i also see what i do see here is just one last shot of giving Brendan a nice parting gift of that I'm not airing private discussions like you did on Friday.

That's what I see. You know what part stands out to me is, you know, him kind of framing it as I was just taking the time. You know, they're allowed to offer me a contract when they like. I was just during the window in which I was taking my time to make a decision, they changed their mind. You know, the way that it's kind of being framed as like, he was just taking his time before putting pen to paper,

and then they flipped him. I heard Monday a guy that had doubts about being a Toronto Maple Leaf general manager on Monday. That's what I heard Monday a guy that had doubts about being a Toronto Maple Leaf general manager on Monday. That's what I heard. That you lost faith in leading our hockey club. Yeah. And once you throw that out there, there ain't going back. You know, it's funny.

Like, do you truly believe that he went into that press conference knowing he was going to talk about some uncertainty about returning purely for a leverage standpoint or do you think it was i don't want to call it immaturity or whatever but just a guy who went up there to talk about a situation and just couldn't help but tell the truth about his family situation i haven't got a clue i don't know the man well enough to answer that. But it sounded like whatever issues that he had with his family got fixed with a new package of terms for Brendan by Thursday. Yeah, and that could be part of Kyle seeing that i'm his only option now this late like suddenly i have leverage and as you mentioned overplaying that hand that's interesting you know

and that's surely to god he won't hire fire me right now before all the stuff that's about to right what's he gonna do do interviews late in may i just i i again all of this could have and should have been done behind closed doors. Like, it just. I would have loved someone to dig in and make a choice. And everybody talked, you know, we didn't really talk about it, but behind the scenes we did publicly. We didn't talk about, you know, is there a fractured relationship between kyle and brendan remember

oh yeah that was a big one that was it was a big one to try to make it clear that like were we've been fine even if it's not been perfect even kyle at the beginning of his press conference said that i i gotta be here by myself this is i gotta stand on my own two feet something of that regards yeah in that regard. And that's all you kind of thought it was, is after six or seven years or nine years in the organization, that Kyle doesn't need Brendan sitting beside him in the press box, or he doesn't need him holding his hand. Yeah.

So what do you make of all the stuff coming out about everyone in the, you know, players and people being well unhappy let's you want to go to the players or uh just the one that caught me a little off guard was jason spezza that he just stepped down immediately immediately and like i get that you're a kyle guy but no one wants to be someone else's guy. Everybody ultimately wants to stand on their own two feet. Right. And everything that I heard about Jason Spesso is great,

that he's hardworking, he wants to learn, he loves it, he shares his experience of being on the ice with still probably 70, 80% of the guys in the league, 90. Like, he was an asset. Right. He had no problem going to the Marlies and working his ass off there. And he was starting to really build towards Traverse City for, you know, the rookie games.

So there was real movement there. There was real growth there. Why on the first opportunity do you, first of all, just go into that war zone between Kyle and Brendan? It's clear why to me. Why don't you step back and let that thing sort out? And if you still want to step back, do it like you're standing on your own two feet, that you're not riding Kyle's coattails.

To me, it's a statement. He must have seen some things that Brendan said and did that he just didn't agree with morally. He didn't want to be a part or didn't want to work for someone who was doing or saying the things, whatever it was, that Shanahan was doing. He was saying, you you know if you're gonna hose kyle this bad in his opinion then i don't want to be here either wow wow i'd like it could be so bad other than no i'm not allowing you to do that i don't know i it's a to me it's an awful look for spats that is to leave right away

well i i don't know i i truly think that leave right away. Well, I don't know. I truly think that this is... We don't know what happened, but from the outside looking in, it's all we can do. We talk about it every day on the radio. My perception of it is it's a bad look to just immediately leave. You were given a job first year out of the league with the premier franchise in the league, your hometown team.

And it's like the one guy, don, don't you want to maybe move on? He's the only one who made a decision. He's the only person with the balls to make a decision. He said, I don't want to be a part of what's going on here. So see ya. And also. Oh, listen, if you got 90 million bucks in the bank, you can do anything you want. He's rich as hell.

I got to play Brendan Shanahan soon. Okay, guys. i didn't make any decisions yeah you can yeah i i just think hey you know what else too there's a team up the road here in uh in ottawa that could use some management you know i don't know if would be kyle or jason with kyle or jason whatever but uh you could talk about pittsburgh you can talk about ottawa you can you there's different ways and i gotta think like again just sitting here going into the following week i'm like did kyle absolutely throw 20 plus million dollars u.s back in their face and not have a plan b i kind of think he doesn't have a plan b but i i think he does have a plan do you think so you do i do yeah i do and it just points to

pittsburgh for me it's a lot easier to say i'm not going to pop up somewhere when you intend to stay in toronto right like that's i think was the intent yeah but i thought that was a lie the second he said it. Okay. I never took that for gospel for one second. Did you guys? No. I don't believe you. Yeah.

No. I don't know why you would throw that out there. Yeah, to me it implied something more. Monday was so weird. It was a weird day. It was a great day, though. I just think that every time Kyle says something moving forward, it's like I'm not popping up anywhere else this year or this summer. Well, the claim he can make is that it fell apart in a way

that he didn't anticipate. He can make any claim he wants. Right. But, you know, perhaps you should have thought of that before you uttered those words because people hold you to your word. Yeah. So then what about the other people that are apparently upset with this? Well, some of the players apparently, like there's reports coming out

that there's a lot of uneasiness. Well, there should be because they're about to bring in someone new and make new decisions. Okay. Watching them in the second round was uneasiness for a lot of people in the city. So I don't get this. I don't get this. You lost to a team that was 19 points behind you in the standings

that you should have mopped up and you've got uneasiness in the meetings really who make who comes up with this stuff seriously people write this i guess reported sammy yeah yeah there's lots of reports out there about it this is uh this is a joke juice your sore season for reporters out there i heard uh and then you mentioned all the names your pals how about the one where apparently brandon shanahan called the core four and said that uh you know you're not going anywhere did you is that one out there too not that you're not going anywhere was it wasn't it that like he let them know did well he that. You guys will all be back. I promise. I pinky swear.

Is that what's being reported? Yeah, it's been mentioned. Okay. Like, again, why would Brendan throw that out there and paint himself into a corner here? Like, does that make any sense at all? No, it doesn't. It doesn't.

If that's the case, that that was said to those guys, then I can't believe it would be. I just can't believe it would have been said to those guys because you're talking about starting over here, starting totally differently. You can't tell those guys are going back. All bets are off. Yes.

We talked about this prior to all of this. But if Austin Matthews tells them in three weeks he doesn't know what he's going to do after the season, you've got some choices to make. that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that didn't just sneak up on you and that didn't just happen but you know who's not been thinking about it the guy who doesn't work here yet we've talked about this for a year and then every time we did people would freak out that we're starting crap who's people me Me? Listen, we're better prepared for the decision. You don't know what you're talking about.

You're just click baiting and you just want hot takes and it's like, oh, now everybody's bringing it up? Yeah. Okay. You didn't see it prior to all of this, but now that Kyle's gone, it's a huge concern

that Austin may leave that Kyle's gone, it's a huge concern that Austin may leave because Kyle's not here. Might be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life, that a player will only sign if he gets a certain general manager. Yeah. It's ludicrous. Are you committed to being a Leaf or are you not committed to being a Leaf? Here's the biggest contract in the history of hockey. Oh, it's a different guy offering me this.

I think I'm going to say no. Yeah. Like, if that's the case, then don't buy anyway. Yeah, exactly. You're still getting warm cookies at the end of the meal if it's a different GM. Don't worry. But I'm telling you, we have talked about this.

We have beat this up in this room far more than the guy who is not yet the GM of the Leafs, has not thought about what to do with these contracts and how to move the change the core of this team and whatever so you know not great bob and it's coming not off of mvp season it's not coming off of 60 goals it's not coming off of discussions like hey who's better mcdavid or matthews it's coming off of 60 goals. It's not coming off of discussions like, hey, who's better, McDavid or Matthews? It's coming off of, how really good is this guy?

Is he a leader? Can you win with this guy? Certainly Dubas believed it. You tell me how you can go from a conversation of, can you win with this guy to the highest paid player in nhl history not easy for brendan who's been here forever or the new guy who's coming in to be the general manager you're telling me he's going to make that decision in six weeks yes i am telling you that

yeah he is he's going to make that decision within six weeks, and he's going to potentially trade him within six weeks. Good luck with that one. Yeah. Oh, I know. No, it's... And, you know, someone may... The one guy who I love as a GM in the NHL

whose name keeps coming up is Doug Armstrong. Doug Armstrong, while in the playoff hunt, traded Paul Stastny. While in a playoff hunt, traded Kevin Shattenkirk. One of the years they won the Stanley Cup when they did that. He makes hard decisions. And, you know, I know he's under contract until 25, 26. Oh, is that like a throwaway comment? Yeah.

That's pretty important. I'm not saying that he's likely to come here. I'm saying he's the guy I like. Be careful because there's a lot of people writing about doug armstrong like it's like this close to happening yeah and it's just like happy with the contract like god he works for another team i'm just saying he's a guy there's an ownership out there yes he's loyal to stillman and all them he's days. Why would I give up a major asset in my organization to the Leafs to go win their Stanley Cup? And what happens to my season ticket holders and fan base and my players?

Take someone that we regard as a leader in our organization, hand them over to the Leafs, and what? And what do we get? Sounds like it's a Doug Armstrong out. I have no idea, by the way. But I have read that it would be Doug's choice, that sort of thing. I'm not saying he's coming here. I'm saying of the available candidates, Brad Treeliving just traded the guy

who's going to win a cup for Florida and hasn't made it out of the second round. Like him, too. If there's an out there and, you know, Doug was able to go to his ownership group when he extended his contract a few years ago and said, I need something because my dream job is a general manager or lead the Toronto Maple Leafs. If I can just... If there is a possibility that Toronto opens up,

will you leave it for me? If that's already done and said, then good on him. And there is an opportunity for doug armstrong to come but if there is nothing if i'm an owner i'm sitting there going scram beat at toronto for sure if they have the say then no reason for them to do that by the way i do want to clarify that i think tree living is a good gm and i know kachuk forced his hand and yada yada but and everybody that's now using that trade to throw in his face is one that he screwed up

was lauding him for what a great job he did when he made it. I can't imagine having done a better job with the asset he had to move. I just see that so much now. Where people are like, oh, you know, he... Cubidou was a big miss. So far. Yeah, that's fair.

That's fair. He can come back and play well and maybe score 100 points but that one uh that one's gonna be a hard one to to look back i just don't know how you trade one of the guy who's literally a heart trophy finalist this year and get better you know like i thought i thought he did well in that trade but that's not his whole 10 years gm or anything kipper in your opinion is that the favorite for a living? Do you have any indication, anything you heard?

Like, which way do you think they're looking? I would think right now, yeah, he'd probably be at the top of the list in terms of someone coming in as early as, I don't know, three days, five days, seven days. But I don't get the sense that they're going to really rush into this and then there's you know we know that there was a press conference that just happened in calgary or it's happening now in craig conroy at two o'clock listen i had heard that they pretty much had craig conroy all along and but you you gotta make it look like you're doing your due diligence. You can't go too early and have a knee-jerk reaction.

And I think if they were to name Brad Tree Living tomorrow, people are going to knock them. I would. Yeah, I know you would. And I would probably too. I'm like, come on. Like, listen to people. Right.

Bring them in. Someone have any new ideas out there? Exactly. Yeah. So I do believe that this won't happen you know in in a few days can i weigh in on something of a grander scale i think that this whole thing is a learning experience or an education for me anyway in the value of experience you know i'm not sure that how you know kyle learned on the job right you yourself

kip have said he did better as he went along you know that a lot of the malgan stuff and nick patan and that was earlier days he started looking for sort of a heavier type of player i know some of the new the younger you know first time ahl coaches they had the marley staff has all been let go i know that you know some of the inexperience showed there you know there is this is a tough place to learn on the job in toronto for hockey he's had like a lifetime kyle of of real experiences in nine years here. He's so much more valuable now. He could take anywhere and say, my nine years in Toronto is like 20 of yours in

Carolina or Arizona. And that's why he's like a top prospect now. He's the most valuable guy available. Yeah. Within reason here, right? And I think it was just

too much too soon for him. You know, I never would have agreed with you at the time. I can see now some of the things that, you know, would have been, took some time. And in a year where you're just finishing your fifth as a general manager, it should have gotten uh easier right he should have he should have gotten calmer he actually went the other way we saw a raw motion out of him the f used to call it desperation i think the f us to the fans really bothered me

if i'm brendan shanahan or if I'm on the board, like I'm going, that's our guy, that's our leader. The guys on the ice know who their opponents are. Can someone explain to Kyle Dubas that that fan isn't our opponent? Why are you wasting your energy and your time on that? That's not it. Throwing water bottles is not it. Looking unhinged on your press conference on Monday isn't it.

He was actually going in the wrong direction for me. Yeah. And you know what else, Kip, is I think he prioritized in his hiring around him, like diversity, you know, it was encouraged. He did a great job in the Maple Leafs under his tenure, I think did a great job at encouraging diversity within the organization and everything.

But he didn't surround himself with diversity of thought. All the people around him think hockey should be played like him, whether it's Spezza or it's Daryl Metcalf or Pridham, you know, all those guys want it to be played the way Kyle wants hockey to be played. Okay, there's a term for that. They're called yes men. Sure.

Yeah. And that's kind of where I'm going. I don't, I think he did done well having someone beside him who really feels differently about the way the game is played and should be played. And I don't know that he did that. I don't know if Brendan did that. Sure.

Great point. He had one in Mark Hunter. Yeah. And I think you need a little, you need people to disagree in the office and say, here's why you're wrong about that. Here's why. I don't think they wanted those guys around. Well, by the end, they didn't have them around. So that's your answer.

Boys, we only get to talk for an hour, so we should probably go here. Okay. You got anything for us? We got to do it. We'll do it after the break. Playoff picks coming up. Perfect. Real Kipper and Bourne after these words. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van.

Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Summer edition. Yeah. One hour. Two to three Eastern and like that first 40 just flew by. I can't believe that was 40. Before we get to playoff picks, you feel any differently about the Leafs after what Bobrovsky's doing to the Carolina Hurricanes?

Because I'm seeing a ton of that from more dubious-leaning Leaf fans. And it changes nothing for me, by the way. Look how Carolina can't score. We thought the Leafs couldn't score. Carolina can't score. Bobrovsky looks unbelievable.'t score. Carolina is like, can't score. But Brovsky looks unbelievable. He's dropping his stick to make blocker saves.

He's not making the amount of 10-bell saves he was making against the Leafs against Carolina. He's made a couple really good ones, but I think the Leafs had better quality chances against them than Carolina has. Overtime started, I think. I think he's like stopped 101 out of 102 or 100 out of 101 something ridiculous yeah the cats are also 6 and 0 and ot which is not hurting they're 10 and 1 in their last 11 games yeah well that's a i saw an article today with all due respect to mark lazarus who i like a lot it was like the cats are doing it differently they're doing it by having fun i was like no they keep winning yeah they win every game yeah guess what's really

fun winning every game they can't do anything wrong no i know it just works and so sam every year has the team beat the leafs not gone on to great things well yeah but it's like you know i would be more list i'd be ready to listen to this if it wasn't for them getting quote-unquote goal even all these other series maybe you know, look yourself in the mirror. Price, that's Lesky. Last year, Tampa goes to the final. Year before, Montreal went to the final. Again, just, I've used this, like, just switch the goalie.

Okay, as much as we crap all over sometimes the Leafs roster, like, you know, Kenya win with Kerfoot. Just, just, is that myfoot? Just switch the goalies. Give the Leafs Bobrovsky and give them anything they want. Well, you better hope this other kid's a wall of famer because he's going to be their goalie. Can we talk about that just briefly? Yes, please.

Let's. Quick, quick. Like, cool is the Jets on Joseph Wall being your number one goalie. Can you just bring him along and give him 30 games to see where it goes? Have you been to Toronto? Yeah. No. Come on.

It's just crazy talk. The guy, they stick him back in junior to, or not junior, with the Marlies to, and he gets lit up in the last game they got knocked out, 8-4 or something. Did he? Yeah. Gave up a quick TD. Okay, so come on.

Don't throw this guy into the Wolves, please. It's going to be Sammy and him all over. All right, it's time for Playoff Picks, presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. We haven't talked about this in a while, so I thought I would check in on the cons, my favorites. And I have to say that

i am sick to my stomach looking at what roberowski is now oh boy he's obviously the big time favorite now plus 225 oh remember when we talked about it no we talked about it during the leaf series and it was a giant like 40 yeah a little bit of a whoopsie there so this next one i have to ask you this i can't believe they posted this on bet365 it's an incredible bet to make you can now bet on the stanley cup handoff oh can you so who the cup is going to get handed off to who do you think the favorite is what's stopping what's what's oh i don't know what's stopping like uh like players from getting their buddies to lay bets and they're just sending it up themselves.

Yeah, it's a fair question. So who do you think the favorite is? I think the favorite has got to be since the Panthers are most likely to win it. Who's the oldest guy in the Panthers? Is it like Ekblad or something? Who's the captain there? Barkov.

Barkov's the captain. Barkov to Ekblad. No, it's Bobrovsky's the favorite. Of course. Plus 300. And the next one is Jonathan Marcheseau, which is an interesting one. Because I guess they would, that he's been there the longest, that he's an original member of the Golden Knights.

He's in his 30s. He's been through a lot. So he was the next favorite. What kind of odds could I get? Not Carlton. Just went to the mascot. I think the interesting one here is, I guess, William Carlson at 12-1, who's a guy that's been there forever,

might be a little bit of a decent value for you. And Eric Stahl, who's 20-1. Oh. And that's an interesting one, too. Probably, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's been there forever and, you know. So there you go. I just thought that was something a little bit unique for you guys.

So my Jacob Slavin pick, not looking real good. He's not on here right now uh they've only given up two goals a game i know and freddie can't blame freddie no ah i can't score either freddie should have had that one on reinhardt it was a good you know should have had him no i can't blame him he's been excellent all right a couple more things quickly before we go you can bet on when the series will end obviously i was looking at the carolina and florida series it's hard to bet against the sweep right now the way that bobrovsky's playing but if you it's obviously a massive favorite minus 115 for it to end in a sweep but if you think the canes can find a way to make it a series maybe win a couple games it's plus 500 for the series to end in six games so

maybe they win a couple maybe win on home ice go back series to end in six games so maybe they win a couple maybe win on home ice go back and you know so that's how that could go anyways the last thing same game parlay for tonight stars nights if you think the stars get back into the series a stars win with a rupee hints goal pays plus 260 so i would take that and that's playoff picks presented by that 365 i think so too yeah Dallas winning tonight. Rupe is the guy. It's crazy. The Florida Panthers, they have 10 wins in 11 games. Every single game but one has been a one goal win.

So sorry, one of them was an empty netter. So it was technically a two goal. But then there's another game they won by two. To me, all one goal wins. Rupe Hintz is the ultimate example of guy playing in a weird hockey market. If Rupe Hintz played in Montreal, he'd be on every CCM billboard. Rupe Hintz is amazing. He's a mule.

He is such a great player. He's probably my favorite guy left to watch. I love Rupe Hintz. And he's got one of the best handles in the league. Rupe. Rupe. I'd like to see Dallas come back and make a series of this. Yeah. I mean, we've been getting good games, like to see Dallas come back and make a series of this. Yeah.

I mean, we've been getting good games, right? At least we're getting overtimes out of it. What'd you think of Chuck Selle leaving the rink? I love it. That's my favorite Selle you can do. Absolutely love it. We're not going to stay here and make a scene. Right to the room.

See you later, guys. Hey, our thanks to nobody. No guests today. Just us. Just us. Thanks. Absolutely nobody. Best show I've booked all year.

All right, we're back tomorrow. Real Kipper and Bourne. Enjoy your night, everybody.