Real Kyper & Bourne - From Coaching to the Farm, On and Off Ice Lessons with Darryl Sutter

Episode Date: October 14, 2026

Former NHL player and two-time Stanley Cup winning head coach Darryl Sutter (0:46) joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to chat about his newest book The Code of the West: Lessons from the Ranch and the Rink, co-authored by Bourne. He shares stories from his career on and off the ice, including missing a morning skate for the birth of his daughter, playing in California, his post-coaching life including farming, his hockey upbringing alongside his brothers, how he was mentally prepared for the NHL, adjustments for young players entering the league, playing his first year with the Chicago Blackhawks and the current style of play from the Florida Panthers. Then, Philadelphia Flyers writer Charlie O'Connor joins the guys (32:37) to discuss the team's winless start to their year, which areas of their game are fixable, and if a trade or head coaching change would be on the horizon. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome back in studio. It's the National Hour on the Real Kipper Endborn show. Brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kiprio is Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fans, streaming always on Sportsnet Plus, and YouTube where we always appreciate a thumbs up.

And if you miss our show live, catch it on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your download. Okay, let's not waste any time. Because our next guest doesn't do fluff, okay? He doesn't, he doesn't waste his words, okay? And he most certainly doesn't care about your feelings. You know what he cares about winning?

And he's done it twice as a Stanley Cup champion head coach. Let's welcome in, Daryl Sutter. Hello, Kephyr, how are you doing, buddy? How'd I do there on the intro there, Daryl? Well, it's not exactly true. Which part? You make the first part. The fluff part?

Hey, a book done by our very own Justin Bourne. That's pretty cool. How was that experience for you? You know what? I think at the start it was, wasn't really sure. about it. You know, my brothers and I had done that a book years ago in the 80s when we were playing in young guys

and it was more, you know, it was just hockey stories and basically a chapter on each one of us and that sort of thing. And then I'd done one in San Jose when I was coaching there with a university student and for a project. And, you know, they were more hockey stories. So, you know, I kind of

when I talked to Justin right at the start, you kind of wanted to get a feeling for it. and to see what would be involved in it in terms of what it would actually be about. So you know, I think it turned out really well. It took quite a while. Thank goodness for your partner there, Kippre, because it'd be pretty awesome to work with.

I think that thank God for technology, because a lot of it, if it's just me talking, that would not, I don't know how that would go, but I think, you know, with emails and texting and then what was cool on the cool things was actually the audio book part of it doing that, that was kind of cool because, you know, you keep getting edited or cut in on and say, and do that again. I said, well, that's how I do it. It is a process, the audio book. Well, you know, it was honestly a great honor to get to be a part of your story. Darry, Darrell. How was the harvest? We didn't get you last week. How was the canola harvest?

We're just about done. We've had some rain the last week. So actually, they were hoping to go this afternoons, but probably not. Probably tomorrow. And most guys will be getting done by the weekend. You're kind of right on that time where it's almost telling somebody yesterday, it's almost like when you're done after training camp, you know you made the team, then you're waiting for the regular season. So we're sort of right in between that. Now just, you know, finishing up all that and then getting ready for getting ready for the next part nice that's great we're glad we got you in this little window here i hope the initial reception of the book has been great one of the things we were talking about last week john tavares missed a game to be at the birth of

his son tucker and i know that there has been some evolution uh over the years and how that's gone now if i'm not mistaken you had to miss i think a morning skate once and didn't go great if i recall Yeah, I got smoked by Bob Pulford on that one. He was the coach, I think, and the GM at that time. And that was, it was 1985 because it was when our daughter was born. And it was the second round of the playoffs. We were playing the old North Stars. And day of the game, game once conference, second round.

And Wanda went into labor. And that was before cell phone. So I phone pulling and go at the stadium. And they got to go get him. He comes on the phone and Kippa, you probably talked to Pully at some point, but he was a gruffled, gruffled guy. He was an awesome guy, but it wasn't much said. And anyways, when I talked to him on the phone, I told him what was going on, and he never said nothing for a few seconds. Then he, the last thing he said was, well, name it after me.

So Pully's name is Robert Jesse Pulford. God bless his soul. And so we named our daughter, Jesse. Isn't that great? And then he find me, remember we used to get the fines? So he fined me for missing practice. And I frigging told him, I said, what's this deal? You frigging take it off my playoff check.

And we made a deal that I'd name it after you and you still find me? Like serious. Anyways, long story. He was awesome. And he got you the money back too, didn't he? Yep. He came to Jesse's grad in San Jose. Flew all the way out from Chicago to her graduation.

So that's 17 years later. and he gave me an envelope with a card in it and inside it said to Jesse the day you were born I find your father $1,000, he put a check in there and he went paid in full. Oh my goodness. That's a great story.

That's a great story. Darrell, like decades of playing the game, coaching the game, probably too many to mention, but when you're putting all of this together with your book, what were you more attracted to? The stories on the ice or off the ice?

I think both, you know, You know, you kept, you look back at it sort of from a distance when you're after a while instead of just being in the moment of it. And you, you sort of forget a lot of things that you actually think about now. And you go, that's, you know, that was exciting or that was fun or that made a difference in my life or that person made a difference in my life. And that's kind of what it's all, that's kind of what it's all about, isn't it? Like, you know, it's one thing, what happened at the rink. It's another thing about happened at home and in your life. And mine kind of went together the way we were brought up and the rules

and what we were taught and the way it carried through into our careers and things like that. And for me, like, I got the whole deal. Like, I got to play for the team that I, you know, like grew up, always wanted to play for. I got to be the captain. I got to be the coach. those things all made a big difference. And, you know, we all did it, right? We all played for the Stanley Cup and were kids.

How many times did we, you know, that's all we did. It was to play for them, pretended for somebody and then to be able to win a cup and then win another one. And, you know, and then your only goal then is trying to win another one. So, you know, it just goes on and on. So it's been fun. You know, one of the things that I thought was really cool

in getting to hear more about your story was your son Chris. Chris says Down syndrome, for people who don't know. And you've been such a part of that community. Your whole family's been a part of the Downs community. I laughed at some of the lighter stories of Chris in Los Angeles. When you were there, I mean, just tell the people a little bit about Chris's experience and the life he got to live as someone who lived in California.

Yeah, he was a lucky guy. You used to tell him that, you live right on the ocean. Everybody thinks you play in L.A., but you live in Manhattan Beach and you live right on the ocean. I used to tell me he's the luckiest guy in the world every morning, open your patio door, and there's the beaches right there, and you've got all these good-looking girls playing volleyball. And then in the afternoon, you can go to a baseball game with some of those guys. And the night you get to go to Kings games.

I used to tell him, you're the luckiest guy in the world. And he is, and he is, and he was, too. So he's a busy guy. He's planning now because Harvest was late. We usually get into a draft, a NHL pool. So now we're doing it this coming Sunday. So he's revved up on that, got it all planned. He ended up with the Kobe jersey too, didn't he?

Oh, yeah. He's got Kobe's jersey. He used to hang around with those guys when we were, because we practiced under the same roof, the Lakers and the Kings back then. So, you know, he'd come to the rink and he'd disappear. And he'd be over. Nobody was supposed to go to Lakers practice as it was security.

and Chris had find his way in there. He was even in the training room with, I remember when Kobe had the Achilles heel injury and couldn't find him. There was Chris. He was in the... Kobe had his foot in the pale and the ice and his shoulder,

Chris had his shoulder arm around Kobe's shoulder and a towel on him and tell him it was going to be okay. What a life, man. Yeah. Daryl, outside of farming, you have a lot more time to kind of take in a beach every once in a while and do different things outside of the game. How has that adjustment been after coaching all those years?

And could you get bored? Could you go back? Yeah. Can you get? Yeah, I haven't even jumped back into the holiday thing yet. We're still, you know, we're busy here. And with the Brent's team, the Red Deer team's only two hours, so we go to lots of their games. And with son Brett coach and the Wranglers, we've been there for two games.

games already. So we're busy. Would I go back? You know, I just told something this other day. Like, you know, when you talk to guys about it, you go, you know, the only way you could go back because you have a different, sort of a different level or different, because after you've won championships, you only, the only thought is, you know, it's not about coaching the NHL.

That's not the deal. It's just about if it was to win a championship again. That'd be the only thing that would even raise. raised me up at all would be that. So, you know, I've, I'm enjoying what I'm doing and I like talk, you know, guys will phone or players you coached or coaches that, you know, they'll phone, you know, things like that and ask you've seen the last couple of games or the last game or whatever or ask you to watch, things like that. And I enjoy doing that too. So, you know, you're sort of, you know, you still, like, I have a hard time watching the whole game's quite honest. Like I'll watch

a few minutes of one game and then go to bed and watch, you know, if there's a game in the West Coast or something like that. So, you know, I love the way it's going and for us and

so I'm good with that. I just want to follow up on the coaching thing a little bit, Darrell, because you've had this an amazing run and you've really seen the game evolve in so many different ways, but also what's going on? with today's kids between the ears

and how you could have coached them 25 years ago or how you need to coach them today and what you've seen and witnessed just as an example too. I mean, you're well aware of McKenna here in Toronto and obviously an 18-year-old coming in today and I don't know if you're aware, but a little bit of talk about him missing an optional practice

and everybody's saying, well, it's a big deal because it's Toronto and I'm like, I know I feel for a lot of us it's a big deal just in general that an 18 year old would miss an optional practice but you know maybe it's just us being old dinosaurs I guess at the end of the day

but just this whole the way it's evolved in in your opinion yeah I just think that on the one side of it the kids coming in or especially that top end those top 10 guys are you know there's so much more prepared than probably

we were at that age just because of they have in terms of training, the mental, the physical part, the access to so many more things. So that's a huge, huge, huge plus for these kids coming in. And then on the other side of it is just what you talk about. I still believe there's got to be an earn it deal involved in it. And, you know, you got to, you know, I know, I know, I would have been there for everything. If I could have played in the NHL, I didn't make until I was 21, but I would have. have been there. I wouldn't have missed a minute of anything because you're afraid of what was

going to happen if you did. So, you know what? There's two sides of it, but he's going to be a great player. It's just the pressure of it all and the expectations and, you know, and the media pressure on it all. We're seeing it out here with, you know, Pract the boy in Calgary. You know, he's not off to a great start. So everybody's going, well, what's wrong with him and all that? Well, there's nothing wrong with him. It's just, you know, you're going to have to wait a couple or three years. especially with the defense to see how good he's going to be. So, you know, I'm kind of neutral. I'm not going to drive somebody on that one because, you know,

I don't, I don't, you know, there's so much going on with the schedule. And, you know, they get their mandatory days, things like that. So it's quite a bit different than when we play, that's for sure. Well, and I think it is interesting. Like when a lot of people are curious about young guys today, you look at your family and you guys had six of seven boys go on to play in the N. And I guess that was one of the questions I wanted to get to the root of when I was there with you is what it was about your guys's upbringing that translated to having such structure and discipline and eventually success. And if you think that's still sort of the should be the path for a lot of kids.

Yeah, I believe it strongly. And I don't think we even understood it until later, probably till we're done playing. And quite honest, that's probably why four of us ended up being captains and four of us were coaches. and we all stayed in the game after we were done playing was the simple fact that we grew up doing that. Without knowing it, we were a team and we had structure and we had discipline in our life. That was the way of work with dad and mom.

And so that was probably an easier transition that we even thought to play pro and then take the next step. So I think it was just sort of natural more for us. But, you know, I know for myself, like I, you know, my brothers were all either high, first round picks or Brian, Brian was the second. I was the last player taking in the draft the year I was drafted. So, you know, I was, you know, I know we get lumped together, but I think I had to do it a little differently. I, you know, I played in the minors and I went overseas and

those kind of things. So I think the mental part of it for me, I was, when I kids, like we kept here asked about the young kids coming in, I think mentally by the time I was coming in, when I was playing my first year in the NHL, I was way ahead of a lot of guys, older guys, just because mentally I'd prepared myself. I'd been cut. I'd been drafted late. I'd win overseas, all those things. I had to earn a contract, things like that.

So I think mentally I was ahead of a lot of people, and that probably helped me going forward. That probably helped me as a coach unknowingly a lot as it went on. It probably helped me deal with guys a lot, I think. so that's you know you know when I think about the setters I certainly think about you know their fit on hockey clubs and the roles that they had and it was clear that I think all of you you know from junior right to the pros you had a clear idea of what you guys were good at or what you were capable of doing or not capable of doing today it seems to me like they're all coming in, Darrell, the kids, they've been schooled, they've been skilled,

and they all think that there should be on the number one line. And do you think players today have a more difficult time finding a role on a hockey club? Yes, definitely. I think that the adjustment to what your role is actually allows these guys to sustain longer careers and you see how their roles change as they go along. So you'll even see guys in that, you know, that top end that'll change, change roles. They'll become the, you know, the best two-way centerman or the, you know, it changes a lot. Most of these kids are drafted because of the offense, correct?

Offense and probably size and speed after that. But the skill part of it is probably highest on the list. So then they come in and there's a big adjustment. You're going to, you know, you're going into a man game instead of a boys game. and it's a big change for a lot of them. Understanding the role and being respectful of what the coaches and the teammates expect out of them is, I would say,

might be the biggest change that they have to make in their games. Yeah, and that's, you know, one of the things that when you're imparting some of this wisdom to young players now, you've told me some stories about when you were first coming up. So when you played overseas, people don't really know. Darrell went and played in Japan, which I thought was absolutely fascinating, a very interesting year, and there's lots on that in the book.

But tell us a little bit about when you first broke into the league. You're a captain of the Chicago Blackhawks, scored 40 goals for Chicago as a rookie, and you're the captain, and there's Stan McKita, and you can give us the other names who are on that team. You learn from those guys. You learned from some great coaches. You were around some great veteran guys on your way up. Yeah, you know, that was after WHA, you guys. And so, you know, there was guys coming back to the NHL,

and there was guys coming back to the American League. So I played that year in the American League against a lot of those older guys. And so it was quite a bit different. You think, but now there's fewer teams then. And so there's probably a lot of American League teams that could have been NHL teams, to be quite honest. So it was a big change. There wasn't a whole lot of young players. You didn't, you paid your dues.

You did your one, two, three years in the American League or international league then. And it was, you know, the teams had your rights for 10 years. till age 30. So either 10 years or age 30. So, you know, you didn't like it too bad. Like, that's the way it worked. Like, unless they totally cut you free, they had your rights. And so you did everything you could to make the big team.

I remember Stan McKeda telling him this in training camp that first year. And I still got sent down. And he said, you know, because those older guys, all those top older guys were the best players in training camp. and even that's without doing anything all summer. And so I remember telling me, he goes, every year I come to training camp, thinking I have to make the team.

There's a guy that's frigging won three major trophies in one year. Like he said, I'm afraid losing my job. And so, you know, that stuck with me about, and it still did when I was coaching. You guys, you know, you always had some guys that had it on crews for two or three games in training camp. Well, Frank, you guys, you guys went open. in the year on the roster, well, then you better put your foot on it here.

See, that's the biggest thing when someone asked me, what's the difference between players today and, you know, in my area, your era, Darrell. And, like, we had the mentality of surviving, and today they have the mentality of thriving. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. You know, at the same time of that, Gipper, I still remember being sent down that first year

that I, after I signed a contract, and I was quite honest, pissed off because I thought I was better. You know, they had kept higher around picks than me on the team. And that was sort of my statement for the year. I was going to show them that I was better than those players and allowed me to get called up and take their place and then totally replace them like the next year.

So that's sort of the, you know, that's a totally different way of looking at other, where maybe there's a little bit now of entitlement, where there certainly wasn't. an entitlement at any point in those years. None. It was like you either shut up and do it or afraid to go play in Moncton. Daryl, the thing that, you know, I thought of you recently, the flyers are having a tough time out of the gate. And I was thinking something you told me about taking the dressing room from a team that had like a bad culture and finding a way

to give it back to them. And what it looks like, you know, because you had some great leaders in L.A., I think, when you said you basically were able to pull out and say, now I know that they're able to do this without me. Yeah. And I've seen that on all, you know, I coach those four teams. And I've seen it on every team because when you go in and sometimes you go in the middle of the year

because you've got to establish how you want the team to play or that you're the leader or, you know, what your identity is as a coach or as a team. And, you know, you go in, you kind of got to take it away from them, right? Because because then you find out what you got. And then when you find out what you got, then you give it back to them. I mean, we're going to the, when we went to the finals in 2004 with the flames,

and I remember thinking that, like, geez, you know, you're not sure about the room going into it, and then you take it away from them, then you're kind of the, you become the voice and the spokesman and the captain and everything in the room, and then you give it back to them, and then they got it. And that's how that team went to, you know, they beat two-one in game seven with other than Kipper and Jerome. They didn't have a star. that was a star team that was a bunch of they were all guys like us you guys like so you know

you just that's how you do it I mean Darrell that's what happens what happens when you don't like what you got yeah well in use and that's another dinosaur that's another dinosaur

real right Kippfer because remember in the old days there might be you could have a 30 man roster like they didn't care right so now you got a 23 man roster. So there ain't a whole lot of movement. And whether, if guys need waivers, you know, it ain't happening very much, is it? Like, so, so if you don't like it, you know, and that goes to it again because you can win championships.

And they say, well, maybe this guy didn't get along with the coach. Well, that guy also didn't get along with the players, but he might have won a championship. So everybody loves you, right? That doesn't matter. So those guys that never win anything, they're the guy. that don't get liked very much. I know you're watching enough hockey. I got to ask you about the Florida Panthers,

their style of play the last few years. They seem to be standing out more so than any of the other clubs in the National Hockey League. Are you surprised that on some nights they can look like an Oilers Flames game in the mid-80s? Yeah, you know, I love the style that they play when Paul Winter, you know, that changed. And then with, you know, Barkoff became such a great,

leader and Matthew going in there and you know it just goes on and on and and you know the way they play they play you know they play they say play off hockey well they play play play off hockey you know and if they get healthy and stay there stay that way this year and get in

then they're trouble again for sure and I know that you know they've switched the goalies around but Marky's really good too so I like watching Florida but you know I like watching Carolina too just because they'll they play the same way they keep coming at you, even though they're a different type of team.

But, you know, I always thought Tampa, Florida is like Emmonson, Calgary, like, just freaking go at it. So they should play more against each other. They should. Darrow, I think we got time for one more. So I figure before we let you go, maybe you could just build people in on the code of the West itself and how you came across the code and came to believe that it sort of provided the backbone for the way that you think a team in an organization should be run. Well, that's how we grew up. Those rules in that book are pretty much how we grew up

and what we were told to do and what we had to do. And again, it just transferred into the next part of our lives. And, you know, I really believe this. The ground here always kept me grounded. It didn't matter where it was. I wasn't a big city guy. And even though, you know, we lived in Chicago a long time and L.A. a long time, it wasn't a big city guy, but I was grounded.

So if you have values that take you back to that rural lifestyle and you stick with them, then you're, you know what, you're always satisfied. Even on the airplanes, I started coaching, I'd just look out the window and think about home. So, you know, I always, there's something, and I tell kids this too, you've got to leave to come back. And it's really, and it's important to do that. That means you come back because you loved it. You've got to leave to see what's out there to make it happen for you. but always remember the lights on and the doors open, come back.

And that's what you should live by. The Code of the West, Lessons from the Ranch and the Rink, and it is co-authored by Justin Bourne. Darrell, fabulous stuff, man, we covered a lot. You want to take one more crack at anything farming at all, extreme weather, climate change, contaminated soil, pests, diseases. I'm not getting into anything that's going on in the world with. right now. Savvy.

I'm happy where I'm at. That's good. Well, we're happy that you're happy. Daryl, thanks for doing this, pal. Yeah, you guys are awesome. Thanks, Daryl. Appreciate it. Daryl Sutter. The Sutter's, you know, like every once in a while, I worked with Ritchie Sutter.

Yeah. These guys, they're just the best. They are. All of them. They're the best. You know, I brought my son out there to Daryl's farm. You know, my son's barely comfortable, this bare feet in our grass in our backyard. And, you know, this is a farm.

And they showed Charlie a good time. That's awesome. He shot a gun with Darrell's first gun ever painted a bull skull. He was a probatractor. Oh, my God. That's like the best day ever. Daryl showed him an awesome time. It was a really cool experience.

Can you take me to? The dog? The dog is an outdoor dog. My son was unaccustomed to dogs being left outside and perhaps intermittently sloughed off. bad behavior. It was awesome. It was like, hey, this is the real world. This is, it was good for him.

Daryl sent his dog to Moncton. He sent him down for four. Speaking of Moncton, I was talking about, I love looking at teams and that team that he was talking about in 7980. Yeah. The two top scores on that team were him and Bruce Boudreau.

No way. And then also on that team playing the Ron Wilson. So three pretty good H.L. head coaches. Yeah. I mean, Daryl's, the people he worked with, He coached his first year as a coach was against Scotty Bowman and those penguins teams.

But he played for the Iwakura Toma Toma Kamaai. Oh, nailed it. You nailed it. He just went to Japan, didn't know a soul, didn't talk to anyone for like a whole year. This would like greet the boats as they came into port to get the stars and stripes, the newspaper, and read it.

What a... Get some English words. To be a fly on the wall for that. Daryl Sutter in Japan for a year is an unbelievable sitcom, wait and a half. But that is, that is. We should do it today. It's all too late.

No, I... Oh my God. Anyway, it was an honor and a privilege to get to be a part of his story. We're looking forward to our free copies. Good role model. Does that mean, you got your free copy yet? No, no, yeah. I'll buy one.

It's in the mail. Get off your wallet. I bought one of yours. I don't think I bought your book, though. I did. I did. I bought it for my mom for Christmas and got it signed. By you.

I'll buy Daryls, but I'm not buying Doug McLean's. Fair enough. Game time? Game time. It's game time. It's game time. 6-5, home of the three-goal, early payout, an official partner of the NHL must be a team plus.

Ontario and Alberta only. Please play responsibly. How did you guys survive the frenzy? Yeah, I got a few points I want to make maybe after the break. Okay. About the frenzy? Yeah. You think I'm not having.

Moderately frenetic. Okay. Okay. Well, I forgot about this, that I got a new phone, and I'm trying to log in to my account. So we're having issues here. Where's my line up here? How many games?

How many games on top? Two games on top? Maybe three. I know that David Amber did all 16 games in one parlay. Did he hit it? Oh, I think we'd know if he did. That's true. You'd be retired.

Good one tonight on Amazon. I think it's Habs and Caps. Two good teams. Yeah, just two games on tap. Another really good game. Dallas and Colorado playing again. So. Got some tension built up between those squads.

McKinnon and Rupert Hintz round two. Can he stop? I think, like, I like that McKinnon cares and, like, he sent the message early in the season when fighting Brant Clark or whatever. Yeah. Does he need to fight every night? Like, I don't know. He's a big boy. Hintz punched him out.

Well, yeah, Hince also does some, like, martial arts training. Yeah, yeah, I could tell. One thing that's consistent is knowing when you see a fight, who likes it and who doesn't like it. who wants to be there and who doesn't? Yes. And you think he... And Nate wants to be in there. Oh, 100%.

Yeah. And this guy's been training like it too. Do you think my coach felt my willingness to go down at the end of a fight? My guess is you're not one of those. You're an easy guy to go. That guy doesn't want to do it. Yeah, we'll just wrap it up here and let the refs come in. Yeah, so he talked about a little bit postgame about how he's from Dartmouth and or Cole Harbor

and there's got some grit to their game out there. Oh, I like that. And I got to tell you that. Having lived there for two years. Yeah. Gritty. He's right. Yeah.

Anyways. Oh, now I've lost my sheet. That was game time instead of by Bet365. Home of the three-goal early payout or an official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario and Alberta only. Please play responsibly. Okay. We'll take a quick break.

For those of you just joining us, if you didn't hear Daryl Sutter, give us a download. He's terrific getting him for about 25, 30 minutes to discuss their new book, co-written by our very own Justin Bourne. We'll take a quick break. We'll get into this frenzy, the things that I liked and maybe didn't like about it. And we'll go around the National Hockey League.

Sounds good. Back after these words. Real Kipprenborn. Hey, it's Matt Markeesie. And I'm Mike Feudah. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon.

It's the fan hockey show on SportsNet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipperman and Boren brought to by Bette 365. Nick Kippreis, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. Flyers. We're going to have Charlie O'Connor on.

He's a beat writer for the Philadelphia Flyers. Just need a couple minutes of his time just to tell us that the flyers are officially out of the playoffs. Mathematically eliminated. Like, what do they got to do, J.B? You're the analytics guy. Like, what kind of run do they have to go now to make the playoffs? I was thinking about it. Like, you know.

Six games into the season. What are they like 05 and 2, if I'm not mistaken? 07. So what if they win seven straight hockey games today? They're still out of playoff. You know, like it's, I don't know how many, it does feel like the hill has gotten pretty cute. It kind of sucks a little bit that we're so in the analytics and numbers and crunching

that we could figure out who's got a, like a slim chance to make the playoffs. by like November. Yeah. You know? I'm looking it up now. And we're just going to figure out where the flyers stand as we welcome in Charlie O'Connor. Does a great job covering the Philadelphia Flyers who,

Charlie, we weren't expecting the Philadelphia Flyers to win the Stanley Cup, but we weren't expecting this, were we? No. I can tell you, no one in that building was expecting this either from the players all the way to the top. This has come as a major shock to everybody. And it's one of those situations where I don't think there's anyone in the organization, again, from player to general manager, including the coaches.

There's no one who doesn't share blame here because I said it on my show today. Like there's a difference between a losing streak and a losing streak, and this is the latter because you can lose some games in a row and maybe your goaltender wasn't playing that well. or maybe you just haven't got the bounces or maybe you're snake bitten, you're hitting posts all the time. That's not what's going on. They've played eight games, and I would say they played decent in two of them.

Last night against Seattle and last week, last Thursday against Ottawa. The other six, they've gotten bulldozed, and that's not a, you know, well, we're just getting bad luck or, we're just off to a slow start. that is a fundamental issue with the way that this team is playing, the way they prepare for the season, everything, really.

So, you know, I know you said that everyone is to blame here. I'm looking at their roster. There's lots of good players on this team. You know, Forster and Zegrois, Ket, Ket, Martone, Bunting, Mischkov, like they tip it. They got guys. So is it, you know, I know, when it's everything, it's really hard to single out anything.

But where do they turn? What hole do you patch? first in the dam? It's a really good question. I would say before last night, I think the thing that they needed to address first was just the compete and the battle level, because that's been absent in way too many games. And, you know, I wrote about it in a column I did this weekend where, you know, Port-A-Mars knowing after one of the games this weekend basically said, you know, some people think it's not effort and that's not true. We're trying. We care. And I believe they are trying. I don't think they are quitting on Rick Talk.

I don't think they are purposely dogging it. But they are getting, last night was not the case. Last night, they played with Jan. They played with that. They played with that, but they played with compete. But all too often, they're just getting outworked by the other team. And that's just a prerequisite to being competitive at the NHL level. Like, look, there's going to be some nights where the other team's going to outwork you.

It's part of the reason why one team wins and the other team loses. But if it's every single night and if it's on most shifts, you're just, going to see what you've seen through most of these eight games that they've played. So I think that's the starting point, is they need to be digging deeper and winning more battles and winning more puck races. And you did see that last night in fairness. They did play a tougher all-around game. And if they can sustain that, I don't think this losing streak will go that much longer.

So that's number one. But then beyond that, you know, there are a lot of things roster-wise. Like one thing that will help, and it's certainly not an excuse, but there's a number one They are asking some key players right now. You know, Travis Kinecti is out. They have two top four defensemen in Rassas, and Ryan who aren't playing. Getting those guys back will help,

and none of those guys are, I think, going to be out for a super long period of time. That said, though, they were really bad, but all those guys were healthy the first two or three games at the year. So that's clearly not the main issue. Like, it'll help getting them back, but that's not a cure-all. They need to look into a mirror and just function better within their system, compete harder, just play better.

And that's not an easy question to answer. It's not an easy problem to solve because there's not one answer. There's probably 10 things they need to improve upon, you know? You're listening to Charlie O'Connor, Philly Sports, talking Philadelphia Flyers and a horrific start to their national hockey league season. Rist Elaine is hurt, connect knees, hurt,

but hurt players have been traded before. How much pressure on Keith Jones right now and Daniel Breyer to shake this thing up once and for all? It's a good question. And I think a lot of it's, going to come down to how long this losing streak goes. Like right now, I don't think they're inclined to make a move. I don't think that Breyer and Jones want to fire Rick Cocket,

because, I mean, that is what you do in situations like this. Like, well, I guess you change the coach. That'll jolt things. I don't think they want to do that. And I know Danny Breyer is a patient guy who doesn't like to lose trade. And, yeah, if you really wanted to make a trade, I'm sure he could. I'm sure, as you said, players have good players. They have players that other teams want.

And if he wanted to make a shake-up move where he's losing the trade, but it jolt the room, he could do it pretty easily. That's not his style. He does not lose trades. I mean, this is the guy who waited 18 months to get Trevor Zegrois and held to his price because he didn't want to pay for Trevor Zegris and ultimately got him for a second round pick and a fourth-line center. So that's not really Danny Breyer's like M.O. is to make panic trades.

But if eight games turns into 10 games, turns into 10 games, turns into 12 games, turns into 15 games, yeah, he might have to, whether that's a coaching change or whether that's a big trade. I think they would probably do a big trade before a coaching change, but also he's got to answer to ownership. And there might be a point where ownership tells him you need to get rid of someone because we aren't willing to deal with us anymore. I said that I went on a show, I think, yesterday, and I said, look, in these types of situations,

what was unthinkable on Monday can become very plausible by Thursday or Friday if teams keep losing. So, you know, we're all just kind of waiting and seeing what happens and seeing if they can pull out of this. And if they don't, who knows what can happen. All right. Last one for me, Charlie, and just things have been bleak, but one bright spot seems to be Joseph Wall.

That acquisition seems to be panning out well. Yeah, he's been great. And it's funny, you know, I obviously covered the game at Exfinney Mobile Arena last night. And if Dan Bladar's a say percentage doesn't look good, it looks quite bad. But a lot of that's driven by the fact that the first. game of the year. I think he was rusty. He didn't have much of a preseason. He got hurt in his first game. And the team was terrible.

Really, since that first game, the goal tenings been good, which is terrifying. Usually when the team loses eight straight games, you figure out the goaltending must be bad. No, aside from that first game, I don't really pin any of the games that they've lost on the goalies. And you're right,

Joseph Wall, who, you know, you're obviously very familiar with in Toronto. He's been very good for the Flyers. You know, he had one game where he was just average, but beyond that, he's been legitimately good to very good in all of his games, and he's already been accepted into the room. He seems like a popular guy. It's wild because the goaltending is good enough where if they could actually get back to playing competent hockey, there is something there. But it doesn't matter how good your goaltending is if you're

averaging 20 shots a game and you're scoring a goal a game at best. Charlie, great stuff, man. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this and give us a little bit of a feel on the Philadelphia Flyers. Yeah, you got it. Thanks, guys. Charlie O'Connor, Philly Sports.

Yeah, it's just, it's way too early. Just way too early to have a knee-jerk reaction. Oh, 5 and 3? I know. I know, I get it. I get it. But I also get that you're going to look really bad if you do something that isn't deemed,

like Charlie said, something that's best for the club instead of just trying to jolt the room. Can we shift from really bad and really good? Sure. Corner of David's getting better every year. Oh, man. He has 17 points in six games, boys.

Yeah. And like all these primary points, everything's just flying off a stick into the neck. Guys are... Like a video game. It's... Yeah, he's the best we've ever seen and we should acknowledge it.

Jesus. He was me that didn't win the heart last year. He obviously is unbelievable, and he's been unbelievable his whole career. And I've been watching him his whole career, and I've just, like, I love the guy. But this year, with the Babcock stuff and him taking all that, you know, the heat of bringing him in

and all that stuff. The leadery thing that he's doing and just being like, I'm going to another level, he looks better right now than he's ever looked to me. Like, he is in his absolute prime. I don't think there's a argument. to be said. He's plus 14.

They just started. 17 points. 16 in a year. It's ridiculous. He's amazing. He might be the best player ever. He needs to win a cup. I hope he does, but like, it's ridiculous.

Boyler's win last night was one of 16 games last night. It was deemed a frenzy. A frenzy. It was a frenzy. I don't mind it. It's good. I don't mind it. Okay.

But. But it's like, Can they tell people about it? Like, I had no idea up until like yesterday that there was all, like, it's not marketed. They don't do anything to push it. At the end of the day, it's just a. A lot of teams plan. It's a Tuesday.

I don't mind it being a Tuesday. No, no, no, no. I don't want it just on a regular Tuesday. Like, first of all, make it a holiday. If you want to evolve Canada for the first time in like probably 15 years, right? They don't want to include us in anything. Like, make it on Thanksgiving

because it's an American holiday too, isn't it? I don't know about that. It's Columbus. Isn't it Columbus Day? Is he giving you your take back to you? Which is great, I'll take you. Is this what you said? No, I just, yeah, Thanksgiving should be a...

Okay, then I'm including yours. Yes. And it's an American holiday too, Columbus Day. Start the games that, I don't know, two o'clock, one o'clock. Let's go. And then make the last one at nine, not 11. 11's crazy.

Okay. And the other thing is like, don't do it six games in October either. We're not ready for the frenzy. We're not ready for the frenzy. We've just warming enough. We haven't worked ourselves up. And October is the worst month for hockey in general in the States.

Oh, yeah. Ratings-wise. But I don't know if you saw your building in the island. I don't think there was 8,000 people in the building, 9,000 people last night in the island. They're just, you're up against baseball. Like, just build it up then. Baseball playoffs, football, yeah. Don't try to slide it in.

It's the frozen frenzy. It's a frenzy. It was frenetic. Anyways. Bonus? Yes, you got a clip. Yes. I cut this clip.

Yeah, this is Rick Bonas, who I really, like. I do. And everybody loves him, right? Everybody loves him. But he's going after the players again. Obviously, it was an embarrassing game last night against the Florida Panthers at home. He's not happy. Let's have a listen. It's something that we'll just keep addressing, playing so well, doing so many things, and then it's self-inflicted. It's a terrible turnover. I will see you on the goal, and it's, you know, ridiculous penalties. So that's self-inflicted. We beat ourselves in St. Louis. We beat ourselves tonight. So you have to hope. You've got to believe that that performance tonight

will embarrass them enough to stop this, right? Because if they're not embarrassed by that, we don't want them on the team. It's as simple as that. And a lot of those self-inflicted things are we can fix them. We can. I know it looks bad, but I'm well. I also believe, I believe in what we're doing.

I believe in them. And I believe we can fix the problems. That all being said, if that doesn't get their attention, then they're on the wrong team. It's as simple as that. I don't mind his temperament. He's not yelling. He's not screaming.

That's the good part. But he's got to stop with, you know, we don't want them on the team or they don't want to be on the team and it's always kind of coming back to, you know, that feeling of no, who wants to be here and we don't want you. If you don't want us and it's like, just get rid of that narrative. It's gone. Can I win.

Winfell's gone. Winsky says he wants to be back. There's no signs that he wants to leave. Just stop mentioning that we don't want you or you don't want us. Like it's to me like, stop with that. Yeah. I think that's a good point. I also think Bones' reputation has always been that people love this man.

You know, like he's likable. He's been on a lot of benches and, I know Kevin BX has talked about really appreciating his time with him. He's like a connects to the players sort of guy. But he is pounding this Columbus team. Every chance. I mean, he got it. The reason he got,

let me get the job. He's like, if I'm back here next year, they'll be hell of a pay. It gets tiresome for the players. Agreed. Yeah. I mean,

they win their next game. their five record as the Leafs. We're running every day. Like, aren't they fun? But I have to say, we suck. Guess what? They can play harder.

They're just not as good. There's kind of that, too. Like, they don't really have the horses. If their roster was good enough to beat the average NHL team on the average night, it'd be like, yeah, yeah. But, like, I don't know that they got the guys they need to pound them like this. I will say infuriating penalty if you're a coach that Matthew Olivier took, where was that the Latvian guy who plays for Florida

just kind of rubbed them out nothing. Louis Balinski's? Nothing at all. Like just pushed him into the boards. Didn't get a five for that? Yeah, fine. And then he gave him the... He speared him in the nuts, didn't he?

Yeah, right. Came in there underneath and got him under the... Got him in the sweet spot. Yeah. And he went down, he got a five-minute major, got kicked out of the game. Like, that's an idiotic penalty. And you see the reaction to him looking up?

No. They showed... Because they showed it on the job. And he was like watching. He's like, yep. Oh, Olivia? Can't do that. He got me.

It was a really funny reaction. You got me. Yeah. There is some times where you don't really mean to do things the way they play out in Firecross, you know? And it's just like, even like the Nazar hit on Horvatt, I don't think he was out there. Like, I'm going to drill this guy's head. Your time is a little off.

You're trying to be a little tough. Yeah. Oh, boy. Yeah. That didn't go. So, yeah, just, I know we mentioned this in our earlier hour. But Matthew Nyes has been quiet now. Yeah.

But isn't it kind of the way it should work that you've got a winger, I've got a winger. There's stuff that we don't like about our winger. There's stuff that you don't like about our winger. And now we're finding out what we didn't like about each other. Winger? Totally. Yeah. And it's like, yeah.

And it's like, that's a good trade. Yeah. That's a good trade. Fresh starts. That's a fairly even trade right now. I will say Marchanko is quite. is far more noticeable than Nyes is quiet. Yeah.

Nyes has nice where he's just like he's not on the ice. Machenko flies around and cuts into the middle and shoots one into the shin pads a lot. But at least you notice him. That's worth $5 million more a year, right? I guess so. You know, when the salary caps $1 billion in the coming years, you want good players.

I'm sorry. And how many teams do we have in the league? It's 48. No, we're down to $7 then if it's billions. Oh, God. My beloved Leafs will still be right in. Oh, no, no, no. Now they got a chance to win the cup.

Like the last time they won it when there was six teams. That's right. All right. Good show. Hey, Daryl Sutter today was fantastic. Yes. Your book came out yesterday. Go to the West with Daryl.

Unbelievable interview. Great job, Borny. We love you. We're proud of you. Thanks, buddy. mentioned Charlie O'Connor, too. Thanks for joining us. Good stuff in the Flyers.

Two games. What do we call it? That's not a frenzy. Two game frenzy? I don't know what you want to call it. Prime night. Yeah, I'll be watching both, but Colorado, probably more. All right.

Pick a game, and then join us tomorrow. We get to do it all over again on The Real Kibber and Born Show.