Real Kyper & Bourne - Front Office Analytics and Late Coaching Changes with Doug MacLean

Episode Date: April 10, 2026

Former NHL president, general manager and head coach Doug MacLean (3:38) joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to chat about the use of analytics and data in building a Stanley Cup winning team, the importance of the people around a new general manager that they would hire, bringing in former players to lead a organization, who Doug thinks could be candidates to be the next Maple Leafs' GM that have been training as an AGM or worked behind the scenes for awhile, why the Vancouver Canucks could be more of an attractive job than Toronto, and why he sees an increased trend of teams changing head coaches to fight for a playoff spot. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee discuss the questions around Alexander Ovechkin's future and take your comments and questions on the text line!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, taking it up a notch as we go national on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. And streaming always on SportsNet Plus. If you can't catch us live, there's always Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube where we always appreciate the chats and a thumbs up for our boy, Sammy and J.B. Take it. This hour of Real Kippper and Born brought to by Bet365. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Doug McLean, former NHL president, GM, and head coach. Also, we will be taking texts.

Yes. 590, 590. Was that a yes for the text? Or was that a yes because you saw someone put something in? No, I was for the text. I'm just watching. Rory just dropped the dart to what probably about six feet on 12 at Augusta. So he's got a put to get to the lead, minus seven.

Something tells me you got something on the line for Rory. Nothing. Nothing. No, I have zero investment in Rory. I got one investment in Patrick Reed. Oh, Reed. What's your gut instinct on Reed? He's been playing well.

Sometimes the darkness wins. He won a couple times in DP World Tour this year. He's played well at Augusta in the past. It's coming in hot. So put a couple shekels on him. And he's got a good start. So we'll see how the weekend looks, but it's trending towards an incredible weekend in Augusta.

All right, plenty to get into with McLean as we await him. Pittsburgh clinches a playoff spot ending a three-year drought. Do you see the video they put out, to flip the script video? No, I did that. Yeah, right. It's a miracle we didn't end up on it. Like overdrives on it, like a lot of people, you know,

the preseason predictions about how this team is no good. Yeah, well, I don't know what we said. I don't remember. I think we is strong. You have been particularly okay to them. Kippa and I have been burying dubest nonstop for a full calendar year. Just, I guess it was. based on the inevitable that they've got three of their best players closing in on age 40.

And at some point, you just thought it was going to come to a screeching halt to the point where we all, and I include myself in this, and whether it's right or wrong, it doesn't matter, we need something to talk about. If we projected that Pittsburgh would have been out by January or February, what would have happened with Sid, would Sid be okay hanging around, babysitting some of the younger kids, kids. He's not babysitting anybody. He's leading. Yeah.

Yeah, what are they going to end up with? I mean, 100 and some points by the end of the end of it, 98 with three games to go. So, but yeah, so they put out a thing, basically highlighting all the media who said they wouldn't be great, which I think was probably a reasonable guess. Nick Taylor rolls one in on 15 to get to minus two. Oh, our Canadian fella, two under. It's obviously probably a pretty tough pill to swallow for a lot of leaf fans across the country, watching the job that Devis has done because a lot of the guys he brought in there to sort of

support the older core of really done well. Yeah. But I'm here to tell you, I don't care. Sit back in the playoffs. Oh, listen. He's made some great moves, including the Skinner one. It looks fantastic, you know, overall. Yeah.

I don't know what it's going to look like. Again, in the playoffs, we don't know what anything is going to look like. It's so unpredictable. But full marks to the Pittsburgh Penguins and Kyle Dubas. Honestly, and we have had the conversation. I don't know if dogs are we, I'll get to do this quickly. But how many times do we say on the show, they're never going to be back in the playoffs with Sid.

We said that multiple times, and now he's back in there, so great stuff. Okay, let's welcome him in. Doug McLean, former NHL President, GM head coach. We usually come to you a lot sooner, but we thought we'd give you extra time to work on that resume of yours. Yeah, I was trying to get Neil Glasberg's number,

but for some reason, I haven't been able to find it. So he's the guy. I didn't even ask you a question. He's the guy that's doing the search for the general manager. Okay? Well, we don't know. Hold on. General manager, president.

Nothing's been clear yet. So just a minute. Is Neil the guy that Elliot used to bring in to Sportsnet to watch games with you and I and he'd sit in the room with us and watch hockey? Is that the same guy? Oh, my God. I can't believe you remember that. I think it is.

right yeah i think it is and i don't know maybe maybe rogers had to bring your friend in day yeah bring your friend to work day yeah so now he's searching for the leaps now maybe it's because he sat with us watching those games that he's not qualified to do that i think we could have ruined him that night uh i give him full credit for hanging in there after that maybe so okay i'm going to say something that is not, you know, people are going to be offended, especially Sammy, or not Sammy, but Borny. I look and I say, okay, Tampa Bay, Vegas, Florida, and Colorado, the last five Stanley Cup winners, right?

And I dare say none of them were built solely on analytics. Yeah, but nobody claims that that was the case, Mac. And I know for a fact they weren't, okay? Now, now we're going to hire a general manager. You do not build an NHL team on analytics and numbers. It's a real important tool, a real important tool in the overall process. And if you don't use it as a GM president, director of scouting, you're an idiot if you don't use it. But you don't build teams solely on analytics.

And I'm listening to this stuff the last few days. The Florida Panthers were built on analytics. Like Kachuk trade was analytics, was it? Bennett trade was analytics, was it? Forsling wasn't Zito his agent? Before when he was in Chicago or his company was? I mean, Bobroski was he brought in due to analytics? Jones was he brought, come on, what is going on when I'm listening to this craziness?

I'm telling you, it's a real important tool. Everybody should be using it. It's an important part of the scouting process, but it's not the whole process. It's a great tool. But to say you're going to focus on data and it's going to be a driving part of your organization, be careful what you wish for. And look at the best franchises in the NHL. Colorado, Dallas, Minnie, Montreal, Vegas, Panthers, Anaheim, Bruins,

strong management teams. That's what they have. Every one of those teams I just listed. Strong management teams that incorporate all aspects of building a team. Go ahead. Did I interrupt you morning? No, no. I was just going to say, like,

it feels like you're arguing against nobody. No, I'm thinking that I listened that I listened the other day about the Florida Panthers that that Sunny Bono or Sunny META is the guy that brought all these players in. Like who's who's believing that? Seriously. I mean, I'm like the NFL higher up and coming management people and they get jobs and they move up because they've done a great job in assistant. roles, they've worked with organizations, they've learned their craft, they've learned how to become a general manager, and we're doing what? I mean, I mean, some of the names I'm hearing is, it's unbelievable.

But anyway, that's just my own opinion. The three of us up here have never held the title of a president or general manager. We assume that a lot of the attention that the analytic guys are getting led by Sonny right now, who seems to be a favorite for maybe even New Jersey and Toronto, we know where their strengths are. So to go to another level like general manager, what are outside of maybe having a program that can tell you who's probably projected to be a good player to trade for,

what else is, where are the pitfalls as a general manager? To take that guy now and move him to the general manager, what is missing? What could be a scenario that he's looking at Mac where he's just can be lost maybe in certain areas? Well, number one, you've got a staff of approximately 75 plus people to manage. You've got a scouting staff to manage, both pro and amateur. You've got a coaching staff to manage.

That is a challenging part of the job. You've got contracts that you don't have to negotiate, but you certainly have to be involved heavily in it. You've got a salary cap you have to manage that you have people that do it, but you have to be involved in it. There's trades. There's free agent signings. I mean, there's running a minor league operation,

a minor league franchise, your minor league team, your minor league coaching staff. Like the job is unbelievably, comprehensive. And I look at guys that had have never done it, that I, hey, if he's great at analytics, that's great. That is part of the group. That's an important part of the group. Now, maybe he's a terrific manager of people. I certainly haven't heard. I hope that they really invest. What are the, the Florida Panthers, are they devastated that they're losing this guy? I'm not hearing that.

I'm not hearing that. So I think there better be a lot of thought going to this higher if he's the leading candidate. And I look, I don't know the guy, and he might be a brilliant guy, but this is the Toronto Maple Leafs. And when I'm telling you, I look at, let's think about this, Colorado, Dallas, Tampa Bay,

Minnesota, Montreal, Vegas, Bruins, Panthers, Anine, sharks, even the sherps. unbelievably strong management teams. Unbelievably strong management teams. Yeah, they all use analytics. Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, I'll tell you what people who are listening to you say that.

And Kip, I know how you feel about it, whatever, about data, is some of the people who are more into it don't get the fear of it. Or why it's, why, you know, when it comes up that this is something that they want as a key part of their hire, you get people who've been in the game for their entire lives, well, they're pulling out their hair over it. You can't do it. You can't measure heart. People get very upset.

And there's a lot of people saying the same thing you just said. They're saying it's not the whole thing. But it's not. It's not. I think everyone's in agreement there. Yeah. What I said is it's an important part of it. Yes.

But you certainly don't build a team around it. But it's an important part. Yeah. And I get the idea that it's a big role management of people. Like that is an underrated facet. I get that. I mean, there's so much to this job. If people, I mean, I'm like, there's so much pressure in the job. There's so, between, the other thing is dealing with the media, dealing with the fan base, dealing with ownership.

It's all encompassing what goes into this job. And to put an inexperienced person in the Toronto Maple Leaf job makes me a little bit. So what about putting an experienced guy in with a Sunny? Sunny still's the general manager. I brought up the point where, you know, the kid in Carolinas, they don't have, they got Brindamore. Brindamore is the hockey guy in all of this here. I know his focus is coaching,

but he is the hockey guy and Justin Williams from everything I hear, okay, in Carolina. But Tom Dundon, Tom Dundon essentially is the management team. He is the guy. And whatever you think of Tom Dundon, it still seems to be working, at least for the regular season for them. What about Toronto? What about an experienced NHL guy

or someone else to at least alleviate some of those pressure points? Look, I think that, you know, the press, like I said it on this show after Keith talked. I mean, hire a president of hockey ops that's on top of the league, that's totally in top of the league, and let him hire the general manager.

He's the guy that should be hiring the general manager. Not Neil Glasberg's recommending. It should be a guy that knows the league and knows the people in the league and knows who's available, hire in the general manager. And then the general manager in consultation with the president of hockey ups,

hires the coach. That's the structure, Keith, I thought, was talking about in his conference. So look, I happen to think analytics is unbelievably important. But I'm telling you this. You too, and look at the teams that have

won Stanley Cups, and you tell me that it was a driving factor. It was an important factor, but it certainly wasn't the driving factor. Mack, who do you like? Who fits the role here in Toronto? You guys are just talking about Justin Williams as the hockey guy that oversees stuff

who's from Coburg. He's not that guy, by the way, but he's just, he's a springboard right now. I'm not sure how involved he is. Who can do that in a market like this where the pressure is? Well, that's a really interesting question. And you say, okay, who are some great up-and-comers in the game today that have been working behind the scenes in an assistant GM role, learning all facets of the general manager job? Okay. And people are going to laugh when I say this because I happen to really think the world of this guy. But I've watched Rick Nash now for seven years work in the background in Columbus.

Training to be a general manager. Training to be a general manager. Toronto guy, great player, great person, comes from Toronto. Mike Stapleton just got a big promotion in Anaheim with Padver B. Solid secondary guy. Gregory Campbell with the Florida Panthers. One of the reasons I hear they want to upgrade Gregory Campbell in Florida, and they wouldn't be that disappointed to see somebody go, and Gregory could be upgraded because they think a lot of them. Ryan Johnson in Vancouver, I've heard nothing but great thing.

I know, Brian, I had him as a player in Florida, quality person, quality family. But I guess there's so many good young guys out there. Mike Greer got the job in San Joseon's done a marvelous job there. You know, with coming from, where was he, New Jersey before that, in training. I don't understand why the, I'm anxious to see if some of these names come to the forefront. See, and that's just, you know, the one thing that I did here is the only reason why Marchand ended up in Florida was because of Gregory Campbell and their connection to Boston. He, he, how did Chook end up there? Did the analytics people have to tell you to get Matt?

No, Kachuk picked Florida. That's how it happened. Yeah, right. That's how it happened. But that's the relationship and the trust part is for Marshand, who we never thought in a million years would want to go to Florida. And a million more years, we never thought he'd resign there. And I mean, that's based on history, relationships, trust. You know, you know how quick teams can go really south?

Like I'm watching the Vancouver Canucks three or four years ago, okay, in the bubble. And I'm sitting there saying this is a team that's going to do some amazing damage over the next number of years. I'm watching Quinn Hughes and you're watching Peterson and you're watching Bo Horvatt be a real leader and you're watching Demko becoming a top goaltender. and all of a sudden, all of a sudden, it's, you know, they've lost their whole solid core that Miller was there. They've lost their whole solid core. And now they're, them and the Leafs are sort of heading in the similar direction.

No, no, no, no. Hold on for a second. I like Vancouver a lot better than the Leaf situation right now, just based on the, the draft capital that they have. That's the one thing. they may hang their hat on a first pick overall. That thing can change quickly over there. That can change quickly except you lost,

you lost the best young defenseman in the game. I get it. I get it. I understand draft capital, but draft capital is important, but you don't want to get draft capital by losing the best defenseman, young defenseman in the game.

That doesn't, draft capital doesn't compare to Quinn used, Nick. I'm sorry. It gives you a better chance to try to fill the gap, smack. It gives you a chance to rebuild. But the Leafs aren't interested in rebuilding. They're going to retool. And they went south when they lost their goalie, too.

Yeah. A few other teams. Like, the wintertime season was lost because of the hellabuck. Yeah. And they're still in it. So look, I just, I look, I think this is a huge job that Toronto job. This is a huge job. And look, I don't wish

Sonny Matt, if he comes in, that's great, he gets the job, he deserves it, whatever. But this is a big, big job. And unless you get an unbelievably experienced president of hockey ops, be careful what you wish for.

Mac, don't you feel like whoever comes in has to under promise a little bit? I feel like that first press conference you give to sort of state direction as whoever it is that takes over here, the under promise kind of helps with your tenure a little bit. Doesn't I remember Brian Burke coming in talking about how they wanted to be and truculence and promising and whatever?

And even Tree, I think, had a lot of confidence initially. Like, if I was taking this job right now, I'd be like, look, we're going to try here, but we may need some time to figure this out. The whole there will be pain thing from Babcock was the best thing he ever said. But, you know, and I agree with you on that. But it doesn't last for me because eventually it all comes back to wins and losses. Yeah.

And it comes back to the media and the fan base. And I mean, look, the toughest part of the GM job is dealing with the owner, dealing with the media, and dealing with the fan base and trying to appease them. And I'll tell you what, it is one. It mean the pressure. And also, people have no idea what the pressure is like when you have to make the call. when you have to be on the phone and you're saying,

yes, I will trade Nylander. I will trade Morgan Riley. The pressure of making that call is over the top. And that's what goes with the GM's job. And nobody knows what it's like until you've sat in the chair and had to pull the trigger. And I'm telling you,

it's a high when you do it, but it is one pressure package. situation. And not everybody is equipped for it. Mack, that used to be Ron Francis in Seattle and he's out now. Is that someone that

should get in the mix with all the rest of the names? I mean, look, I've always been a Ronnie Francis fan. I, you know, I've used to talk to him a lot when we're at SportsNet and he's a good person. I knew him a little bit because of Greg Millen and he were great friends.

He's a good man. Seattle's got some issues, guys. What is going on with that franchise? And I guarantee you Ronnie Francis is not the problem with that mess out there. And somebody better grab onto that one really quick because it's going south in a hurry. Yeah, they got three years in a row at around 80 points. This is a, I'm frustrated because this is a very negative show here. And I really wanted to be positive for Sam.

I know. Okay. I'm excited because we used to, we used to help Neil understand the game, Glasburg, when he came into work with him and Elliot. And I mean, now,

I mean, now we're all negative here. And I wanted to be, who do you like in the East? Who's going to get into the playoffs, Mack? Who's your favorite team of the mediocre teams? Well,

it's going to be, I mean, the island, it's going to be the islanders or Columbus. Because they, they are sitting pretty because both them and Philly, Philly, Columbus, and the, one of the three are going to get the third spot. Columbus, didn't they get buried?

Yeah, but they got three games left. Look at the islanders. Montreal, Boston, Washington. Look, look who Philly have to play. Philly go into Vancouver, or go into Winnipeg. Then they got Carolina and who else? Montreal. Montreal.

Yeah. Columbus go into Montreal. then they come home. They got Boston and Washington. And, you know, Boston's in, so they're going to rest. Philly or Carolina goes into Philly. Now, do they dress part of a team? That's what you worry about in these last three games that, you know,

somebody may win because who they're playing is going to rest a lot of players. So it's going to be the Islanders or Columbus get the third spot in the metropolitan. Can't believe we didn't ask you yet about Patrick Waugh being let go and DeBor stepping in. Yeah, what are you hearing in Florida? In Florida? I mean, when you go for coffee with all your buddies. The dead GM? Oh, by the way, by the way,

Jeff Rimmer told me that Sergey Brabroski told him, Jeff, you know, you're so smart you should be a management guy. Jeff was a nice little plate to deal with, tell Jeff. You know what I told you? I said, Jeff, phone Toronto, phone Neil. Get your name in there. If Pabrowski told you that, that's good enough. Get your name in.

But anyway, I don't know. What's going on with the border? Islanders, Islanders. Trust me on this. This trend we watched with Cassidy and Patrick Waugh is going to be a new trend in the NHL. And it'll hit next year down the stretch with teams fighting for their playoff lives. and there's going to be more coaches fired at this time of year. It'll increase every year.

It's a new thing. And especially if, especially if Columbus get in with bonus, if the Islanders get in with DeBoer and Vegas are in already with torts. So it's going to be, it's going to be a big fact. Matt, why? Why is the trend?

Because owners are waking up right now and, and they're losing too much money. Where's the trend from? What they're saying is if we don't get in the playoffs, we're going to lose out on 10 or 15 million dollars. That's what they're thinking. And, you know, the frustration mounts. And, you know, I mean, I've watched the Islanders. I mean, the games they lost at home.

Every time I watch the Islanders, they're down 3-0 halfway through the first period in a game that was a must win. So I don't know what it was. But firing coaches like, have we ever seen this ever? where coaches get fired with eight games left, with four games left, with three games left. I've never heard of it.

Well, there's the bump, right? It's the bump. Yeah. I mean, I understand it with 25 games left. Yeah. There are 30 games left. I understand there, but with three, you know, and Torts,

Torts comes in, Cassidy, obviously, they, you know, it was a disaster there after, you know, it's the same thing I'm doing in Boston, but it was a disaster. And now Torts, because then he's Mr. congeniality, Mr. Bobb.

Wait, way till game 20 next. So nice and sweet now. Which is, and you know what? They're 4 and O. They're 4 and O. You know, and they were five. I talked to George McPhee three weeks ago, and he said,

actually, I talked to George the other night. George texts me, I don't know if I'd tell you this, but he texted me, he said, Doug, I'm walking by your place with my dog. Grab your dog and let's go dog walking. So I take my dog and go. George and I are walking down the street in my place here. We each of us walking our dogs, but George's dog was a little tiny little guy,

and he held him because he was scared. Newman was going to attack him. So anyway, we had a great chat. That was a great hockey chat. It was much more enjoyable. I'm sorry, was this before or after he fired Cassidy? It was after. Okay, all right.

Maybe your fingerprints would have been all over it. I talked to him before a month ago, and he was concerned about the playoffs and then I talked to him after and we had a great conversation. Last one for me, Edmonton Oilers, I feel like they're just going to do the same thing they've done the last couple years.

Worried about them all year long, all of a sudden they're good, their division's not that great. Doesn't it feel like they're just bound for the conference final again? I think, you know, again, we still have the goaltending worry. I think Paul Coffey going back is a stabilizing

factor for them. He's a good hockey. man, he's done a great job anytime he's come in, as a pinch hitter. I think they're going to be tough. I think they will be a tough out. If their goal-tending holes up, I think they'll be tough. You know, I think without Florida,

without Florida at the end, you know, if they get through the first couple of rounds, he'll get better each round. One last one, Ovechkin. You got a gut feel on if this guy plans on playing next year, or are we going to see him done after this weekend? You know, listening to him the other day, it was interesting. I mean, the admiration you have for this guy.

I remember sitting at the draft table in Carolina when he went first overall. And I mean, I'm, you know, I mean, this guy has not disappointed hardly. I mean, he had his struggles winning the first championship and him and Sid were battling. But look, he's been, he's been special. And watching him, listening to him the other night, health, 41, young family, I sense that he, I sense he may not come back. It was just the vibe I got when he was talking about 41 and health, you know. So we'll see, you know.

But I hope he doesn't retire. Okay. The caps, the caps may still get in. Like, they're right there. Are they? Yeah, they could get to 95. They can get to 95, you know, so. Wow.

I wouldn't count them out right now either. I wouldn't, you know. All right. Listen, in the meantime, like, sharpen up your analytics a little bit. You know, you're young skill. I've actually, I've actually tried to study it. I really have tried to study it. And so I can talk to Bourne.

That's because if I ever meet, if I ever meet born in person, I know that's what he's going to want to talk about, expected goals and all this bullshit. And I want to be alert to it, you know. Matt, we're playing golf this summer, Mac. Yeah, we are. I'm a fan of it. We're doing it.

Buddy, the Walmart that they could build between your drives and Justin's drives off the charts. But anyway, my handicaps, 13, by the way. This guy's coming down. 13. From the senior T's. All right, buddy. Thanks for doing this, Mac. Thanks for having me on, guys.

Thanks, Mac. Appreciate it. Doug McLean, everybody. Get Rick Nash's name out there, right? All right. That's an idea. It's an idea. Apealing name to me.

Right? The guy who's been doing management stuff for some years. He knows Toronto. Did he say seven? Yeah, he's been doing it. He's been with Canada. Yeah. I'm into it.

I can hear Rick Nash. Rick Nash, two guys that the Leafs should have signed his players now going to be part of the management team, Chris Pronger and Rick Nash, two guys that the Leaf fans all clamored over for their entire careers and now they're going to work in the front office. Get him on the ice. Game time.

Rory with another birdie to get to eight. after Fleetwood eagled. He's dialed. This leaderboard, boys, it is. It is. I need Justin Rose up there. Champa. Like, I hope there's no plans

for the weekend for you, too. I'm trying to pawn my kids off on other people. Legitimately, I'm trying to arrange play dates, so someone else raises my kids for two days. One of my good buddies, Madison, he's moving this weekend. Oh, are you helping me a move? And he's a die, of course not.

But he's a diehard golf fan. He's like, oh, I'm driving all day. I'm like, this is on you, buddy. Yeah. How about the guy who says, like, help me move? Oh, my God, no. Are you kidding me? I saw someone.

I look like Keith Hernandez. Once you hit 35, it's like, you got to pay for someone now. I'm out. My back is not. I saw someone tweet, like, I'm not slipping a disc for a slice of pizza and five beers. Thanks, man. Those days are over. Hire a company.

Way over. Game time, resented by Bat 365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. Now, boys, in the heart of a playoff race, tons of huge games. Oh, wait. Nothing.

Come on. Zero games on the schedule tonight. Not one measly game. But how many tomorrow? Probably many? Yes. Fifteen? Yep.

That's 30 teams. Wow. I mean, who doesn't get to play tomorrow? That's very weird. Unless Toronto and Florida forfeit. They're going to have a game. We're not sure. I'm not sure they're going to be playing.

It's going to go zero to a shootout, and every team just going to be firing clappers from the circles. So I'll look at the major leagues of baseball. The Toronto Blue Jays get back underway tonight after a series changing, season changing potentially win against the Los Angeles Dodgers. Five and six or something. They're five and seven.

Instead of four and eight, it feels a lot better. Not going to lie to you. They are hosting the Minnesota Twins tonight. Twins come in as underdogs, plus 125. Former Jay's prospect, Simeon Woods Richardson on the mound for the twins. Patrick Corbin off the street. I'm sorry, who?

Patrick Corby, I mean, that's just what happened. For us? Yeah, they signed him. He's a lefty. throws poo. Probably not going to go great. We'll see. But minus 150 on the money line

if you want to bet on Patrick Corbin tonight for the Toronto Blue Jays. And a quick check at the Masters leaderboard. Rory McElroy. Plus 1 15 to win the Masters right now. Like Rose suffering that heartbreaking playoff whole defeat last year, two buddies, it would be just the coolest story to see him come back the next year and do it. Got a number?

Really good number on Justin Rose. Plus 1100 right now. What's the cut line? Do we know? Plus four? Plus four? That's pretty good. Patrick Reed in the third spot with odds, 10 to 1,

going a little further down the list. Kepka, 3 to 1 at minus 3. It looks like the best value to me. Anyways, tomorrow is moving day at the Masters, and I will not be moving off of my couch. Anyways, that was game time presented by Bet 365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play it responsibly.

Before we go to break, text, 590, 590 from all over the country. No one of Leafs questions. It's all these questions. Every other question from all over the country, 59590, if you're listening. Okay, let's take a quick break. Also, I want to get your thoughts. We got Doug McLean's thoughts on OV. I want to hear from both of you.

What is your gut instinct on the great eight? That and a little bit more as we close out the week on Real Kipper and Born. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. A reminder of This Hour of Real Kippur and Born brought you by Bet365. Nick Kippreos, Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee.

I don't know if I probably have asked this to you before, but since it's Master's weekend, you've got to have friends in high enough places, Kip, that you're going to get on at Augusta one day. I hope so. Like, you know, like some of the circles you roll in, I think you probably pull it off, no? It's really hard.

Yeah. It's hard. Really? I'm surprised that. I haven't really tried, so I don't know if it's possible or not. Oh. You are actively trying.

Your mic's not on. Mike's not on. Mike's not on. Okay. So a friend of a friend of a friend, you're trying to. Well, I have a golf Twitter account that I hope that one day SportsNet has golf rights and they send me to cover it and I can win my way onto the course. That's the only way.

Is the media. Like I'll legitimately like switch professions for a while in hopes of doing it. The other thing too is it just it shuts down in the summer. Like there's only, there's small windows where you could actually as a guest go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the. Exclusive of exclusive.

One of the French, Canadian journalist during, I forget his name, but during the round, like the media lottery, he hold his second shot on the first hole for a two on the first hole in Augusta. That's crazy. Unbelievable. Jerry D. played. Yeah. Played Auguste.

I think he's dropped like 84. I'll settle just. Well, they don't play back. No, of course. I'll settle for just everything, picking in April to just go and watch for two days. You going to take us? We could make that happen. Yeah.

I feel like we could make that up. least aren't going to be the playoffs again next year. So she'd be no problem. Tax or did you want to talk about Ovi before that? Ovi. Yeah, let's get your thoughts. Like kind of a strange kind of cryptic kind of thing. His visit most recently to Toronto,

he picked up a few pucks, I think, and gave him to the trainer. You think it's coming to an end? You know what? I hope he retires. Yeah. I don't want to see him just grind.

to out next year. No. And I'll tell you what I really don't want to see is OV all season next year just standing for two minutes on the power play. Yeah, not starting in his own. At some point, you're not an active hockey player.

You're a field goal kicker, you're a specialist, you're just, I don't know. I don't want to see it either, but I think he'll be back because I think when he doesn't, we're going to be all over. He doesn't have more goals than Gratzby. And the other thing, too, is then how do you not announce it?

Like Copatar, how do you avoid having people go, should we go shake his end after the game? I don't know, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Do you think people know right now that it's? No, what I'm saying is if next year you almost have to announce a Copatar all season long, he's going to retire and teams feel obligated.

to give him a gift, then I don't know. No disrespect to Anzi Coppatar who's had a fabulous career. But, like, he's not Ovi. No. Ovi is one of the, I mean, most goals

in the history of the league in the regular season. Not total, but in the regular season. I don't think we're comparing that. It would be on steroids. It would be... It would be 10 times the Copepath won't.

That's right. But they may want that. The ownership probably would love that. Oh, the ownership would love it. But no, no, no. The owner is different because it's like a son to him. Yeah, but the team.

team doesn't want it. Clearly. Team doesn't want it. The coaches are quietly going. Please retire. Please. And, okay, he's a 30 goal score. Everybody's going, yeah, he's a 30 goal score.

You can find a 30 goal score if you pay him $9 million. Yeah. You know, that could be younger and more upside. Well, and also, if you put someone in his same usage situation, they're going to score too. Pick someone who's a good player and say, we're going to give you two minutes on every power play. All you have to do is hit one-timers. You'll never start in the D-Zone.

A lot of guys look pretty good in the opportunity. Yeah, I don't know. Do you think, you don't think, everyone's like, oh, he wouldn't want the tour. I think he's going to shut it down. But, like, why would people think that? I don't, yeah. Has there ever been more attention-seeking player?

Like, I mean, the way he's played, it skates, his helmet, the hot stick, Sally. I don't have a feel. I don't have a feel for it. Fascinating. Let's go to text. Okay. Hey, how about Shabah coming back, by the way?

Broken arm and then just two weeks. That's pretty sweet. This is from Kim and Edmonton. This is a pretty sweet text. Hi, guys. Love the show. What was the moment or event that made you love hockey? Oh, that's a very nice.

You know, it's really hard, right? I was born. My dad played in the NHL. Like, I have memories being in the locker room as a kid in the NHL. So I just kind of what I knew. Kipper? When did I get there for myself? I don't know.

I got invited to my next door neighbor's host league game at George Bell Arena in the meatpacking district. George Bell, that's my neck of the woods. Yep. And I'm like, oh my God, I got to try this. Joe Grech was my neighbor. You remember the time that you're like,

all right, I'm going to get into Hodging. I remember pressing my face against the glass. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. It's awesome. All right, that's a nice sweet text, right? Very sweet, Sammy. Who says we're not sweet?

Kippur, what was it like to play for Mike Keenan? Tell us a funny or crazy Keenan story? Crazy Keenan's story is we practiced at a facility called Wright Playland. And the only way he could get to his office is to cut right through the middle of our dressing room. Right? So we'd have team stretch and he cut right through the middle. And, you know, he had his designer jeans on, his crisp white shirt, and he always had a scarf wrapped around his neck.

Is that right? Yeah. So, like the idiot that I am now, I decide one morning, I'm going to grab a red practice sock, wrap it around my neck, exactly the way he wears his red scarf, and I'm going to follow right behind him. Okay. Yeah, and then halfway through he stops and turns around.

And I'm busted. And, you know, the boys got the best chuckle. The boys got the best chuckle. You know, they've ever had all season long and I'm a healthy scratch the next four games. Four! Oh, yeah. Help mom, four.

Oh, yeah. That's a hundred rain. That's a good story. This is from Bill in Norfolk County. which three Canadian teams have the best chances of winning the Stanley Cup within the next five years? Three teams in the next five years. Montreal 1A. I still say, I still say, Ottawa.

Edmonton one. Edmonton one. Yeah. I think. That's it because they could win this year coming out of the west. Yeah. And the east is way better. I don't know.

I'm going to say Edmonton, Montreal, Ottawa. No, I'll say. Toronto? No, I'll say Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton. Ottawa won. Yes. You check Linus Lomark's I know.

I know. You know what, though, this isn't this year. And they could get rid of them by next year. Okay. And replace them. Yeah.

And he's got a fantastic team. They do. Hey, guys, Foster from Victoria here. Love the show. Thanks. If the Canucks get McKenna in the draft, what's the next few years look like?

Give me some hope as a Canucks fan of over 25 years. Well, I guess you're coming off that big trade, the Quinn Hughes trade, where you kind of hope that one of the guys, you know, Rossi, Ogren, that those guys find it, right? They become players. McKenna, does he help next year?

Probably not a ton. No. It's pretty lean. Like, you need Bue him to figure it out. It's going to be a while, guys. I think you've got to flip a couple of the other guys, too. It's going to be a while. You're going to hang out of Pedersen and DeBrusk?

They're not going to be a part of the long-term solution there, are they? Bessers had a really bad year. A lot of guys. Yeah, they still may have to get rid of a few here. They just couldn't. They tried to take. get rid of Bessor's contract. They couldn't do it.

They tried to get rid of Cain. No one would take them. They just, they, they just, it starts with a healthy demco. That's just any goaltending here. Look at all the teams that suffered goaltending issues.

You know, it's crazy just looking at like bad teams and how long it takes to get better. Like Chicago, when are they going to get better? I look at the. Buddy, they got a free pass too, eh? What's the deal? I don't know.

That's a huge market. I don't think anybody. I just think people stop caring. It's almost like, oh, they're rebuilding. But I say, okay, well, can we show some signs of coming back? Like San Jose has already bottomed out and bounced back in this time. They get all the time they need. Chicago has the worst underlying, like, expected goals for and against in the league.

They're worst in Vancouver. They're atrocious. Yeah. So, like, I'm not even seeing flashes of like, here they come. No. It's time. Yeah, they get a free pass, though. at least it doesn't appear like anybody ever expects anything from them.

I would like to see them. So they just leave them alone. This summer. They're going to draft very high again. Sure. They're going to draft very high. So let's say they add, who's the other kid, not McKenna, but the other?

Oh, the Stenberg. Stenberg, right. You know, so they get someone like that. And then, you know, a couple of these kids who are coming along, need to start to contribute. They trade for a Nielander. They trade for whoever you think of. And then you kind of wake up in their, like, Anaheim.

Well, you know, You got to get back. Three or four pieces for Anaheim now and they're... But you've got to get there before you can get there. Like, this is a ladder and they're still on the bottom rung. Also in a way tougher division than Anaheim. Hopefully they're timing it right, though. Three best teams of the league.

Let those other teams spend all their ammo and then start your climb. How about this one, boys? If you weren't working in sports broadcasting, what profession would you like to do? Astronaut. Yeah. Hold on, do we have to be capable of doing it? I'm in on astronaut, but I also wrote a lot. where I said I failed 11th grade math the other day.

That's really sweet. You know, that's the first dream big, Kip. Yeah. I'm in. I'm an astronaut with you, pal. We'll do a podcast from space. I was going to say... But I'm driving.

I was going to say continue my pizza delivery career. How fast is that rocket coming back home now? 8 kilometers per second. They must be... Are they back? Oh, if they're going to that speed, they must be close. A lot. A second.

Stop it. Yes. What is that? Like 40,000 miles? I have no idea of a Chris Hatcher. Colonel, Chris Hous. Hadfield said it yesterday, so it's gospel. That's all I know. Oh, my God.

What does your face feel like? I don't know. Hot, probably. Coming into a heat shield, they're using that heat shield here. Sammy, close your ears. If Montreal were to win the East, which team would you want them to play

in the Stanley Cup final, Heidi and Toronto? Sam would like to invite Colorado, so they get smoked. Give me Edmonton. Yeah. Be fabulous to have an all Canadian final. Yeah, that would be really cool. Sports that could use one.

And the last year, in the last year, the original deal. We're like, can we please get that? Not out of the question, by it. Not out of the question. Not of the question. I published one just a few minutes ago. Tears.

The likelihood of winning the cup. All the playoff teams in tears. And I got Montreal pretty high up there. Can we just avoid like two markets? I don't want to embarrass anybody, but like, can we avoid those markets that just, you don't. I'm not even naming them. But you know.

Dallas Carolina final. Whoever is watching and listening, you know. Dallas, Carolina. Is that the league's worst? I know Dallas is a big market, though. Is there a worst western one? Wild Carolina? Probably.

No, Minnesota's hockey state. We're good. Okay. We're good, though. The Utes? I guess Anaheim is probably, Anaheim Carolina is probably Nightmareville for D&HL. It's a nightmare bill for everybody.

I was sorry. This is from a desperate wing fan in Ottawa. Will Steve Eisenman be fired soon? Maybe bumped up. Bumped up. I just don't know what to do with this thing. I'm getting so mad at this idea that you could fail your way to the presidency of an organization.

Like, what is that? It's a thing. It's a new thing where it's like, well, we don't want to embarrass this guy. So we're going to pay him millions. It's the Peter principle in business. Everyone gets promoted up to a level where they're incompetent. If analytics can be a thing now, so can that. I guess.

Their deadline, they traded a first to get Justin Falk, right? That was what happened. It's got five points in 14 games for them, minus three. Yeah. I mean, if they miss out in the playoffs, I pick could be pretty high. Yeah. Right? That's not going to look good.

That's not Carvo, but pretty bad. Yeah, not like that. Um, that's it for Texas. All right. Big, big game tomorrow night in Toronto. Biggest game of the night. Sorry, the rest of Canada. I know you're trying to make a playoffs, Ottawa, but all eyes on hockey night in Canada.

For a must lose game. For a pick. Yeah. I'm awfully, I'm awfully stock tomorrow night. That's enough to make everybody watch. Hey, Sammy. Well, it's a big one. Way to tee it up.

Way to tee it up, Sammy. Yeah, it's a big one. I'm curious, yeah. How are they going to handle that covering it? It's like our, it's going to be a tough. Speaking of which on the Montreal Canadiens, how about that brand new white jersey Suzuki

captain? Yeah, I mean, our thanks to the Montreal Canadians who sent it. Really? Yeah, big fans of the show. Thanks to the Canadians. That's great. Wow, so I'm just wondering if there's such big fans of the show, if they're listening, when they're going to schedule their parade for Cole Cofield scoring 50 goals. Is that, is that tomorrow after the game,

or is that on Sunday? When's that parade going to be? I just got a text send the jersey. jersey back because of Sammy. Remarkable achievement that is just a storied franchise has to celebrate 50 goals. What an incredible achievement. That jersey right there may be getting my Selkie vote this year. I mean, I love Nick Suzuki.

I've said it before. Onsen attack legend, love them. But over the top. All right. The goal call was great. Oh, my God. I mean, anything, I forget, a French goal call. It's just, it's amazing.

Sounds great. Good job this week, guys. Thanks, man. From an astronaut to Doug McLean. Like what kind of week have we had? We are all over the map. Right. But we got time to regroup this weekend.

All right. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. I'd love to hear from you. Thumbs up on YouTube. Have a great weekend as we close out the National Hockey League. Or?

Enjoy the Masters.