Real Kyper & Bourne - Getting to Know John Chayka + Flying to Round 2 with Keith Jones

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee check the temperature of the Leafs' GM search as the team is reportedly continuing to negotiate terms with John Chayka and Mats Sundin. Later, former Coyotes video coach and ESPN's Steve Peters (17:46) shares what Chayka brings to the GM role, his path to being GM in Arizona, what role the Coyotes' ownership played in his tenure, and why he can find success in Toronto. Later, Flyers President of Hockey Ops, Keith Jones (36:31), stops by following Philadelphia's OT win over the Penguins to advance to the second round, and he discusses the young team's bright future, Rick Tocchet's impact and Matvei Michkov's development.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

All right, let's get her going for the next two hours. The Real Kipper and Boren's show. We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto, streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. If you miss our show, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, where we love the chats, love the thumbs up. That Kippery hosts, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandale, Frank the Tank, Baraska.

And Sammy, try to keep your area. over there. Keep her clean, who clean. Who me? Yeah, who me? Oh my God. Massive email.

I don't know. Today, because of you. Listen, I'm going to be nice here, but wouldn't throw stones from a glass house over there, brother. When I leave,

I'm the last, you guys are shot out of a can when the show's over. That's all true. It's just a vapor. That's not true. I stay back. Yeah.

And I ask Ailish, who takes over this. seat. Alish. How's it look? You're happy? It's clean. Is there a wrapper?

Is there a chocolate wrapper that Justin threw at me? Yeah. You're dusting for fingerprints over there, pal. Do you keep up the great work? I found a lineup from three years ago in the desk. Yeah, maybe. Just a couple. All right.

Plenty of conversation to be had here, including our update on the Toronto Maple Leafs, which is. sponsor this segment, which is Chico watch. It's all quiet. Chico watch. We are, it is a Chico watch.

Is it not? There's like really no one else. If there is, it might be one of the best kept secrets in leaf history. I kind of like the idea of there being some like mystery. Well, sure, like, you know, Scott White hasn't been told he's out of it yet. Like Mike Gillis just. kind of faded into the background like Homer into the bushes. Like is he still,

does he exist? Where's he around? But yeah, no, it's everyone you talk to is like, nope, it's those two guys that're working on contracts. That's what's happening. So, I mean, do you have any new thoughts? Has anything changed for you?

I got a question. Sure. Have you heard a good story about him yet? Well, it's not that I haven't heard any, good stories so much. Okay. You're talking about John Chica and if there's anything. A positive.

One positive thing. Did some of those deferred contracts. Okay. Which was creative and thoughtful. Okay. In about 10 minutes we're going to have Steve Peters who works at ESPN and has got his show called Inside the Coach's Room. And he might have some insight because he did work with John Chica.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he was with the coyotes for 25 years almost. And so he was there before and after Chica. So he'll have seen the whole arc from his opening pitch to when he's over. That'll give a different perspective, right? At the end of the day, we're just three guys on the outside looking in. But he might have some insight. And that's what's going to happen between now and when they name him official.

Yeah. If that happens at all. Guys just trying to find stuff out. People trying to find stuff out. What else is out there on the likes of John? I mean, Matt's, not so much. We know Matt's. Everybody knows Matt's.

It's been well documented. He's got to launch his book last year, pick that up and get to know him even more. Chike is still a bit of a mystery, though. Yeah, the thing that's changed the most maybe is a better understanding of Tidomi's involvement, which, you know, and I can't even pin down how much that is, but it does sound like he has been a part of the selection process, and we know he has strong ties to Sundeen and Chica.

And it popped up yesterday. Yeah, and Keith Pelly, too. Keith Pelly too, right? Yeah, and it popped up yesterday in another athletic story with the connections between Max and Chica and all that different stuff that came out. So, you know, you start, there's some dots that you start to connect. So Chico worked with Max in junior?

I think there, yeah, I think there was a connection there. Okay. Yep. Not in like that. Chica originally was University Western, right? Yeah. Which was by London. Right.

So I do believe that there's a history there between Chica and Max. Okay. Yeah, I mean, to Sam's point, you talk to people about this. And the biggest thing is I guess people just don't really know what to think. Because he hasn't been in the league in a while. And the first tenure was under such weird conditions, right? Like the Arizona coyotes were weird. What?

Just out to left field a little bit. I just remembered I just remembered Keith Pelly hiring Ty for TSN when he retired. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. And I'm not sure if I got this story straight. Okay. And I'm sure if I see Ty next time or maybe even Keith, they'll straighten me out. But I think the story goes that Max were a tie on his first night of being an analyst for TSN did the opening game

and then after the game was over around 10 o'clock 10 30s he's leaving like where you go and it's a double header we got another game he goes not for me a bye yeah it's funny oh my God that's funny

Those super coveted gigs that like, you know, that I would love to have myself one day. Those guys grind, man. You know, you see the X and those guys like there. They're late. It's late. It's two months straight. Double overtime last night in Vegas. Yeah, I saw her boy Tim McAllifloat uploading an Instagram story.

It was like, it was like 3.50 a.m. I ran into Ken Reed yesterday and I was like, yeah, what you're watching tonight, what you into? And he was like, rooting for regulation, pal. And then woke up and saw that. one went to two o'tee. Then you got, I had hockey central at noon. Oh yeah. Coming off double headers.

Oh yeah. So you were right. Double headers and double overtimes. Yeah. Fun, fun stuff. The busy life. Anyways, yeah. So we'll talk to Steve Peters.

Also, Keith Jones will join us later on. Another former player turned president. So maybe he's got some insight on what potentially Matt Sundeen could be looking at. Well, and same with our guest in the 5 o'clock hour. Kevin Lowe. So can I ask you just on the Sundeen thing? Because I don't know if it's true or not,

but we've seen a lot of connections between, you know, people, I think Merrick brought up Mike Johnson as a possibility. Guy works for TSN clearly does all the regionals on there. And somebody DM me and said that him and Mats are very tight. Is that true? Do you know? They were line mates. Okay.

Well, I just said that they might be friends. Yeah, we're all together. I mean, for me, very short period of time. Mike Johnson spent a lot more time with Matt's. Okay. I was just wondering if that's a name that, you know, if that was being another name. Yeah. Because, you mean, it's popped up here and there.

And, like, I know Merrick brought it up and I know it's kind of been battered around here and there. In the millions of names that have been brought up. But it just, there's a connection to Matt's there. I found that interesting. Honestly, to God, you'd almost feel better if it were him as GM. Because you'd be like he's been, who's followed the league more closely. He's a nice level for years and years and years. This guy knows it ends it out.

I do believe that if Matt comes in, he'll be able to grow out his, his, you know, his team. So whether or not it's Mike Johnson or anyone else, I think he'd have full control over those type of names. Okay. I was just interested because I just said, somebody had told me that. I didn't know if it was true. One of the appeals, I think, is that Matt's and Cheka come from such different worlds, right?

Like, you know, Matt's... The odd couple. Well, yeah. And, you know, Matt's knows all those people and that hockey side and the history of it and the culture side of it, all that. And obviously, Chica is from the business world and from a data side.

And, you know, you hope between the two of them, you kind of cover all your bases and... You hope? All I got. I got a text from our boy, Mike Gentilly, producer of the fan hockey show to some hosting on sports, I'm not to the fan,

that the segment was called win, win-l-l-tie with tie domino. Oh, really? All right. So there you go. All right. But if it ties, then we go to overtime. I'm going home.

I'm going home. Yeah. I think once Ty found out that you really had to put some time and effort into that type of job and at times, you know, whether it's Mike Johnson or myself at times,

you got to jump on a plane and go work. Yeah. And it probably just wasn't his thing. Yeah, fair enough. What would you say? You do here. Were he to be involved in the front office?

Does that affect Max in any way? I don't know how that would work, to be honest with you. I'm not sure. Maybe that'd be viewed as a conflict so Ty wouldn't do something. Or I don't know. I don't know whether or not we'll see Ty in any official role, to be honest with you. It could be as simple as, hey, I've just, I know John Chica.

We had, we were together in Arizona or Phoenix at the time, whatever they were called back then. And he had some amazing ideas. It falls into what Keith Pelley's looking for. Here's an introduction. It could just be as simple as that. And if people want to speculate right now, does it lead more to something official for,

tie. If it does, then I think it's a fair question on your part to ask, well, how does, how would that affect Max? The one thing that stands out is Max's Arizona Coyote's days, he was there and then not from 18 to 19, or 1819 to 19 20. Chica must have traded Max at some point. No? Maybe.

And maybe his contours up. He just signed somewhere else. Anyway, that's just random thought I had. He got, do you remember the trade? No. Galchinoch? Yeah, the Montreal. Yeah, where Max had, like, great success.

Yeah, his best year. Yeah, he was awesome there. Yeah. That was. It's not encouraging from a track of perspective. Got rid of him right before his best year. Yeah. Well, I mean, can't hit all home runs.

You need a couple singles. He hit a few. I have a couple, you know, non-strikeouts. I'm hoping he looks more like Okumbo. recently than when he started. Yeah, I'll get it figured. I just, I think the overarching feeling I'm having about this is if John Chica comes in here and his name the gentleman,

and that's done, he's going to have a lot of proving people wrong to do. And that people, a lot of people that are in the media and that have been writing about this and have been talking about this, have some pretty strong, pre-conceived notions about this guy. And that I feel like it's going to be a pretty big uphill battle from the start, don't you? I do feel like I, I even wonder if it would benefit him to give some clarity on the years in Arizona. How tied were your hands?

What were you able to do? What were your restrictions? Including ultimately being suspended by the NHL. Do you think he needs to come clean on that or some clarity on that as well and what happened and why it happened? Do you think people would be interested in that? I think he'd be interested, but I don't think he has to do that. That's not. Or has it been well documented already?

Is it out there? Nothing that happened. I've not really researched it in the last little while. I don't know in terms of what is really out there or not, where he got caught for lying or cheating or whatever. The league interpreted how he broke the rules of the CBA. But was it clear or not clear on all of that? Nothing that happened in the state of.

Arizona regarding hockey has been covered extensively. Excellent point by you. Either Craig Morgan wrote about it or no one found out about it. So that's all I got. So I don't, I don't. Yeah. That's the extent of that. Right.

Yeah. Now, the other concern is, and I'm with you in terms of whether or not you can ultimately feel like, okay, if he broke the rules and he was suspended and, it costs the team a first and a second. That's a great penalty. It's a significant penalty. And if you feel like he's paid his dues and he's learned his lesson and clearly the NHL does because they reinstated him.

So if he comes, if he ends up here, there be many including yourself, as you had said, that says, hey, it's a fresh start. Yeah. Like give the man a fresh start. but I hope people here's the butt part though is like

and this is my concern too is how will other general managers or teams feel about him what do they remember about dealing with him whereas his reputation

and his credibility to go back into that world because this team isn't like it's got a huge runway to try to get better again. Right. It's like it's a very short window here to try to get them back into the playoffs

as early as next April. And John, how are you getting there? Because you don't have any prospects, grade A blue chip prospects, depending on, you know, where you feel with a few of the Marleys. And you're going to, you don't have any draft choices of significance to throw out there.

It's like, how are you going to do this? You've got to go back to those general managers and make deals. And make deals right away. And it's like, okay, it's okay for us to say, hey, you get a fresh change, but how do they feel? Yeah, I do think that this is my own opinion,

but I think that people, didn't want to deal with dubus sometimes because you don't want to get burned by a, the Toronto Market or the boy wonder kid. You're very cautious in dealing with a guy like that. Remember the waiver claim thing? Right.

And I think Cheka probably carries some of that too. It's like they know the position he's in. And when you come in, you're like, I'm looking to do something creative here. I'm sure it might be hard. But the one thing I'll say that I like about Chaka versus Tree Living before, tree kicked tires and everything and traded nobody

until the deadline. moments before. He was too slow. It was too slow. Yes. Chega traded a lot in his time in Arizona. You know, not all hits,

but at least he's trying to do something. Yeah. Good if you have a radio program. People are making deals. So, yeah, I think you'd get on the phones pretty early and get to it. But I wonder what the holdup is with contracts or whatever.

Like, how much do you want? Here's the job. Job description. Yeah. And who answers to who? Yeah. Who reports to who? You know, right?

Does Matt's... Worked out over a meal, can't it? Does Matt's need new scouting staff? Who stays, who goes? Yeah. Like, we haven't seen anybody officially let go or released or... Was it Freach yesterday talking about how Armstrong was going to be willing to take the bullets for Steen? It would almost be like a service to Mats and whoever that if there are some guys they're going to move

on from to do it so that they don't have to do it. But I guess you'll let Matt's come in and make those calls. But how would you know? But that's the million dollar question is how can he feel comfortable enough to have a true evaluation of their body of work over however long they've been around and how far you want to go back? Pritam's been around all 10 years of Brendan Shanahan's world. Was he not?

Yeah. So how far would Matt's go back to say, hey, what happened here? Right? When we lost, when we gave up a first rounder and it ended up being Seth Jarvis, like what happened? But also you need someone like that to tell you about what's happened and how the internal operations have run and who do you keep? Who do you know? Anyway. Okay, let's welcome in Steve Peters.

Works for ESPN. He's an analyst for inside the coaches room. also been around the Phoenix coyotes at the time. Arizona was the name switch done when you were still there? Everything was done when I was there. I missed one year. I was there 97 to 2020. So is there from Keith Kachuk all the way to the bubble.

Wow. So I saw a lot of stuff in Arizona. So Steve, obviously with the feel that John Chica is right at the forefront in all of this for the Toronto Maple Leafs, many around here, including us, are starting to wonder who's John Chica and what can he bring to the table. And, you know, let's just start there. What stands out for you in terms of why the Leafs would be so interested in John Chica?

I think this is interesting. And I'll tell you, the people I talk to around Arizona when his name started to surface on the rumor mill at this job, everybody was surprised. And I think with John, you're getting a very smart guy. John's smart. John doesn't have the success he had at 25, 26 years old because he's not a smart guy. He knows how to say the right things to people. He reads, he studies, he learns from people that have succeeded in things that he wants to do. So you're going to get a guy that's smart, that he's going to look at every angle of a deal.

He's going to look at every angle budgetarily and as a player, as looking at players. So I think that's the asset. I know we're talking about analytics. And by the way, this drives me absolutely insane, that now Toronto's going to be, they've had an analytics department for how many years? Like every team in the league has an analytics department. So to say, hey, we're finally going to accept analytics and embrace analytics. I think is a little bit of a misnomer on what you're bringing in with John Trekkah.

Yes, he looks at numbers, but every GM looks at numbers. Kyle Dubus looked at numbers. So I think you're bringing in a smart guy that's going to try to bring that intelligence inside the hockey room back in Toronto. So maybe tell us a little bit about, that's a crazy thing to me that at 26 years old, they handed the keys of the organization over to him. So how did it look like?

How did he end up in that role? I know you were around at that time. Yeah, it's strange. And I think for people that have been around this league and you guys have been around the league for a long time, players are used to going through juniors, American League, battling it out, finding your way to the National Hockey League.

Employees have to do the same thing. They have to find their way to the National Hockey League through the grind and get their way there through the things that they have done. With John, it was a kid out of university that really had no hockey, NHL hockey experience on his resume. He had started staff athletes in university, and you guys have already mentioned it. His close relationship with Max Domi started. Well, he was still at university. He was Max Doney's personal trainer. He was Max Domi's nutritionist.

He was kind of the end-all catch-all for Max Domey started. in London. And I think that's what really got him, honestly, on the path to getting the job in Arizona. Through that relationship with Ty, he was introduced to businessmen in Toronto, who ultimately became part of the ownership group in Arizona.

Hey, and then Don Maloney was introduced to John. Hey, we got this really smart analytics guy. He's got his own analytics company. You need to bring him in. But it went from an interview in the summer of 2015 to a month later. he's assistant general manager and within a year he's general manager and two years later he's president it all happened so fast that i think everyone in the periphery of that that that rise to

success for john chike was was very surprised one and how quickly it happened and two how many boxes he didn't check prior to getting there now and i'm not saying that in a negative tone i'm just saying he hadn't had a job in the nchel before and now he is not only assistant general matters he's general manager at 26 and this is a guy that didn't know the inner workings of the nash i didn't know, you know, the day-to-day grind or when the bus leaves or how the hotels work. Do you leave after games or all of those conversations with coaches and players and all of those things? He had never been through that. And now he's thrust into the role of general manager.

And I think there was a little bit of shock in that and how quickly he propelled. Having said that, again, we talk about how smart he is. But at the very same time, you look at what Kyle Dubus was going through in Toronto. similar path in that they're young, smart guys that are really driven by numbers and analytics. But Dubus at that time said, you know, I'm not quite ready to be the GM. I'm going to learn under Lou Lamarillo.

I'm going to learn all the ins and outs of things outside of the analytics realm, things that have nothing to do with numbers and stats, the actual job of being a general manager, how to negotiate contracts, how to deal with other GMs, how to deal with players and send players down, and all of the things that go with it, John didn't have that experience. Dubus became an assistant GM, and I really believe the success Dubus is having now in Pittsburgh is because he did take the opportunity to learn from those around him.

Unfortunately for John, his entire staff was made up of people that he knew, that he was close with, that were all under the age of 26. So the assistant general matters, the stats got everybody in that bubble was just as inexperienced as he was. And that was a concern around Arizona at that time. And there was this thought that there was going to be someone helping him, an assistant GM, and I won't throw out names now because it doesn't matter, but there were, there were NHL legit NHL guys that had been through management, either as a GM or an assistant GM, that were in talks to join John Chica at that time. And it just never came to fruition. And I really think if John would have had that guidance through all of the things outside of the analytics world, that he would

probably never have had this six-year lapse from the NHL. You're watching and listening to Steve Peters, NHL ESPN producer. Also, of course, you worked for Arizona slash Phoenix under John Chica. We are discussing John Chica. Can I ask you just in terms of the fast track of John Chikra in Arizona, where was the weakness of ownership? and how that played into ultimately his days there and then the ending there as well. Yeah, it's interesting.

And we've talked about that in Arizona for 20 years. I mean, from the very, very beginning, the ownership in Arizona has been in flux. It's been a problem. It's never had that stability. And at that time, when Chikek came in, it was a group of Canadian businessmen, a majority from out west oil guys from out west,

but it was a group. And it was eight to ten guys all put in the, their money and hey, we're going to own a hockey team. No NHL experience, no sports experience. It was fun. It was fun. Hey, we got a hockey team. And I'll tell you, that's another show for another time on how these owners were on the road and how they acted on the bus and around the team. It was an entertaining time. But because of that, and their inexperience with sports, that's what allowed John Chika to get his foot in the door. Again, with his relationship with this businessman and with Tidomi, that got the ball in motion. And I think that's that, that,

because there was nobody really at the stopgates saying, hey, I don't know if this is, if this kid's ready to be a general manager on the National Hockey League, there wasn't that stopgap. Don Maloney didn't have the opportunity to say no, to bring him in as an assistant general manager, because the ownership is telling him you're hiring him. And I think after Don was let go,

there really wasn't much of a process on who was going to be the next general manager of the Arizona Coyotes. It was just almost a foregone conclusion that it was going to be John. And now, now I keep going back to saying this. John's smart. Yeah. And I think he does have a leg up on a lot of people because he's intelligent, communicates extremely well.

He's good in a boardroom setting. He knows the right things to say to people at the right time. And that's because he's smart. But I do think there is something to be said for the experience that you can gain from being around that particular industry for a length of time. And I think when he left, again, it was an ownership issue. When the Morello group came in, Morelos had a different idea of how this team was going to be run. And John and the Morellos just didn't see eye to eye.

And you could see it right away, that this wasn't going to work. It was another group that hadn't been involved in the NFL before and didn't know how to run a sports team. And John butt heads. They were frustrated. And you knew it was going to be a matter of time. How it ended was a surprise to all of us because there was the rumors about the New Jersey Devils and John's going to take a job, not just running the the devils, but the basketball team as well. He's going to run the whole thing.

And now he's 29. So I think that that time the owner said, okay, that's enough. You're not going there. You're not doing that. You're under contract here. You're extended here. And John just said, that's it. And three days before we went to the bubble in 2020 and got on the plane,

John Chika was gone, and Steve Sullivan was our general manager. Steve, great insight in all of this. Before I let you go, let me just ask you. Okay. So John goes from the least amount of culture in the NHL to one that's very deep here in Toronto. You say that he's very smart. He can handle himself in so many different ways. I get the sense that you're saying, yeah, I mean, he could pull this thing off.

I think his advantage in Toronto are twofold. I think he's matured hopefully over the last six years in his involvement with businesses. And we're talking big time businesses across Canada. So I think that will have helped him. And more importantly, in Toronto, he's got a support system. He's got people that have been there before. He's got people hopefully around him. And Matt Sundeen is a great example.

This is somebody that gives John Chike a little more cachet and, okay, he's going to have somebody to help him through this. And I think John was just probably a little bit ahead of his time when he came in Arizona. And here's the concern. You said it. People don't notice what you do in Arizona. They don't notice if you draft Victor Sotom. and you say he's the face of the franchise and never plays, that's fine in Arizona.

We'll move on. In Toronto, you don't get away with that. And the little decisions that you make day to day on calling players up and down and how those trades move, he's not going to be able to hide. And that's what's going to be interesting to me is see how much he has matured and how much he is willing to take outside counsel and advice. And can he take on literally the center of the hockey universe in Toronto? and that's going to be a big task.

And people should be skeptical of this hire. They should be. This is someone that hasn't been in the NFL face for years. And he left after lost our draft pick here in Arizona with his little scouting scandal. That hurt. That hurt. And put the rebuild back in Arizona because he violated rules and get suspended. Those things won't go unnoticed in Toronto where they did in Arizona.

I wish him well. I think he's a nice guy that ultimately meant well. I just think he was at the wrong place, right time, wrong place, wrong time with the wrong people in Arizona. And maybe, just maybe, that this could be a thinking outside the box decision that may pay off for Toronto. Steve, appreciate the insight, man.

Thanks for doing this. Really great stuff, man. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for having me on, guys. I really appreciate it. This is kind of the big time for me. A little bit of nerves. No, no, no.

This is. It's, you're an analyst for inside the coach's room, right? Yeah, I just break down a bunch of game from them. I was a video coach for 20 years. I can't stop breaking down film. If you want to watch the game, see how plays happen, see who screws up, jump inside inside. It's really good.

Can't recommend it enough. Thanks so much, Steve. Steve Peters. Geez, that was. Yeah, that was really good. Really good. And, you know, it sounds like he knows. He's been a part of that history.

He knows it. He knows where the pitfalls were for John, where he had a chance, where he didn't have a chance. Yeah, I found that very insightful. It doesn't seem like the, the problems or the pitfalls you mentioned would be insurmountable, you know, if having the guidance of someone, you talk about the culture,

I would think the most exciting thing for John Chica now is just to know that whatever he needed for support is there. You got it. And there's no, I don't have to worry about it. And that falls into what Keith Pelley wanted from the moment he said it on the podium, that this is the direction we want to go. and it fits.

Yeah. And now I think Lee fans could have a better understanding of why John Chica is of such interest to the Maple Leafs right now. Yeah, if I may say about our own show, I think that's must listen to stuff if you're curious about the direction

coming up in the next couple of years. Absolutely. Speaking of must listen, Keith Jones after the break. Boom. Yeah. All right. Plus, Kevin Lowe at the top of the hour. Plenty more on Real Kippering Bourne.

Do not go away. Diving deep into Leifes, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The Jady Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick and Bruce, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. Cam York.

Wrist shot in overtime. Eliminates the Pittsburgh Penguins in a few minutes. We'll welcome in the president of hockey operations for the Philadelphia Flyers, Keith Jones. Games again last night. Yeah. I mean, you can be. Well, zero zero. Like, how do you feel about that?

Talk at hockey boys. Talk at puck. Is it okay? Is it like watching a pitcher's duel? It's great when it's got overtime. Anytime it's over time. It's great. But I found it.

Also, there's also something that you kind of respect about, you know, neither team giving one up all the whole way. There's something sort of noble about it. But no, it's more fun to watch 5'4. It's like pulling teeth to try to score in the playoffs now. One of the most famous goals in playoff history, Steve Eiserman, from...

You're in St. Louis? Yeah. Was it? That was zero, zero and double overtime. Was it really? Yeah. Yeah, that's... John Casey.

Yeah. Just the camera angle made that goal. You had a coming into your living room. You know how I know it was John Casey and not Grand Fear? Oh. Because... Oh. I wasn't playing for some mysterious reason.

Some reason. Yeah. I wonder what it was. Interesting. John Casey, was he also in... net for the Lemieux triple dangle when he, like the famous Mario Linoos? Inside outside? Oh,

that's maybe the best goal in NHT history. It's one of them for sure. But yeah, I don't know. But yeah, no, it was good. And then we got the great drama and the Vegas, Utah one, Utah up late in that one, and Vegas Stormback. And then Andre Vasselisky has a hole in his glove and Montreal won. You tweeting the pitcher

of Dave Thomas from Wendy's is the goalie. Sorry. But Vaselowski's struggled in playoffs. He's been no good since the least. I kind of suggested it a little bit. And Valley wanted nothing to do with it. He's like, I'm like, tell me if a man on an island.

But this, there's something going on with him. He just doesn't. He's still, he's still, he's still talented as hell. We know that. But there's something missing in his game right now. And I don't know if it's like a level of a, aggression where he's

I think he's just trying to rely on his talent too much right now and it's a bit of a I'm going to goaltend in a rocking chair like Kirby Doc's goal I'm sorry but you can't you can't bring the puck over the goal line right the icing line and then pull it in and go far post right

it's just there's no way does get a poke on it and Doc kicks it back up to a stick. But not an aggressive poke, not a... Yeah. I don't know if you remember someone tried to do a wrap-around about on Dobish and he swung his stick like he was Billy Smith. Oh, the Billy Smith wraparound. Yes.

Oh, yeah. Glenn Healy used to do that to me in practice. I'm like, could you not? You're going to break my ankle. Who was it on the lease that got their arm broken by the... Was it... In practice? No, in the...

game. I think maybe was it pro? By the way, in practice, that is psychotic behavior. Yes. But you can't piss him off. It's skipped up off his stick and broke his arm.

Like he swung his stick anyways. The heel of a goalie stick has some weight behind it with a little torque. Thank you. So the rumors are starting. Gennie Malkin, you know, is he done there? How long until we're doing the Cid combos again? Okay, so what is, yeah, where were we going with the Pittsburgh? Penguins on this all season long that your three top players, including Carlson,

could they catch lightning in a bottle while they rebuild? Right. Is it enough for Kyle Dubus to look at Sid and go, I got you back in? I did my job. I mean, I don't know if it's enough, but what does enough mean? Like to prevent Sid from stormy out and saying trade me or? I have, I mean, there has to be some more leeway for Kyle Duvus to kind of, transition out of this era and go into something else.

I also don't even know that they're ready for that. Like, have they built up the undergrowth enough that they can burn the old forest down here? Like, it just feels like who's, so you got Ben Kindle and, I don't know, maybe they got a bunch of guys I'm unaware of. Okay, so what do you do with Malkin? Can I turn him into someone? Well, he's unrestricted, is you not? Oh, is he? Yeah, I'm sure he is.

They got to resign him. They got to resign him. But just to say, maybe he has another year. Check, I can't even remember now. No, he's UFA. He's UFA.S.A. Malcolm? Yeah, yeah.

Okay, we'll pick up that conversation, but let's go to Keith Jones, president of hockey operations for the Philadelphia Flyers. He's got some free time on his hands right now. Jonesy, how are you, my friend? I'm doing great, Kipper. How are you doing, pal? We're good. So, listen, you make the playoffs and you win the first round,

everything going according to your plan, right? It's going well, that's for sure. I don't know if I could ever say it's according to plan. Our guys have done a really good job. Talk's done a great job, and I think everybody around here is pretty excited about the way things have gone so far. Yeah, that's a big step for you guys

to get out of the first round here. So what do you attribute your success through that first round of the playoffs? It's been a combination of things, which is always the answer that you want to give, because you've got a lot of different players that have contributed to your success, and you also have a coaching staff that's done an outstanding job and helping you get to this point also. Goaltending, though, has been obviously really important for us,

and Dan Valladar has been outstanding since the start of the year and picked it up even more as the playoffs came around. It was a big reason why we were able to, you know, get past the penguins last night, this is outstanding play. So he's one that really stands out. But there's been a committee of players that have done it at different times throughout the season.

You know, Trevor Zegris at times, Jamie Drysdale's done a great job. It's a long list. And I think that's what's really important about our group is we are a young, you know, developing team that's, you know, continuing to grow. And I think the future is going to be very bright for us. So as far as,

Talk its concern, Jones. If you can kind of narrow it down for us and what stands out the most for you, is it the systems? Is it what he's able to get them to do defensively? Is it the work with Zegris and a few others? I mean, what culture behind the scenes stuff? Yeah, it's a combination of a lot of things

that make, you know, excellent coaches. And through his experiences and through, you know, relationships with other coaches in the league, including Peter DeBore and John Cooper, who he worked with, you know, with the Canadian Olympic team. I think he's just gained a ton of different perspectives that he can use to help himself,

now be the coach that he's become. And then he's really done a great job of taking that information, sharing it with our players, driving it into our players when necessary. He's got a really good balance to, approach and the way he goes about doing things. And I think our guys have benefited from that. Some players that stand out to me as individuals, Zegras, who you mentioned,

there's no doubt that there's a great connection that has happened there. Owen Tippett is another player that has excelled under talk. And then you're taking a whole bunch of young guys that are, you know, 22 and under, like Alex Bump, who's jumped in there and done a great job since the end of the year. Denver Barkie was our best player over the last couple of games in the last series as far as our forwards went. He's still, you know,

developing Meechkoff at the same time and I think that's gone as well as it could and kind of as Talk would have planned it and I think that's important for us as we continue to see our young star players potential star players continue to

develop. Martone fit in seamlessly there's just been a lot of good things that talk is done with a very young roster. So when we had you on last year, there's a time it was like, I don't know, December, January, you guys were in the playoffs and we talked about,

you know, you guys making playoffs last year, and you're like, ah, we're not there yet. Like you kind of knew you guys ended up just missing last year, but you kind of knew at the time you weren't there. This year, are you seeing the fruits of that labor, that patience? Because that's a hard thing to have, but it seems like you guys have put in the time

to do this in a solid way, so it's actually got some state. power? I do think that, you know, I've been a really important part of this as Danny has stayed patient and the way that he's approached the trade deadlines

in each of the last three seasons, including this year. You know, we didn't look at last year. We were definitely selling. But this, you know, trade deadline that just passed. We were definitely thinking that we would just stand past.

If we received a ridiculous offer on Rasmus Ristel-Lyman, we would listen to it. But Ristel, we believe, was a very important part of our group, and we're not looking to move him, but we're listening because that's where we are in our evolution as a team. So last year, you know, in the year prior to that, we traded players like Sean Walker, who went to Colorado and enabled us to pick up a first-round pick that, you know, hopefully turns into something in our future. That was the plan and now it shifts to not aggressively

buying pieces but not selling. And I think that was the next part of our plan and so far it seems to be working out okay. Jonesy, as far as Mishkov is concerned, every time there's

natural kind of development things that pop up like it would normally for a 21 year old, this thing ends up being a bigger story than it, you know, sometimes should be. But what is it with, you know, the relationship either with maybe fans' expectations or what, but why is it always seem to be a bigger story than other 21-year-olds when it comes to Mishkov? It's a great question. I think some of it might have to do with the early success that he had, you know, getting 63 points in his rookie season

is pretty impressive. I do think there's areas of his game that, Talk believed he needed to work on and those areas he still wants to help him improve on. So I really think that's what it comes down to. I think there's a lot of fans that love the kid and want to see him, you know, be an excellent player in this league. And Talk feels the same way as far as wanting the best for him as a player, but also within the team concept. And that's the balancing act.

But there's been overreaction from fans along the way. but that just shows how passionate they are. So from our perspective, from up top, there's nothing about anything that's happened that is concerning to us. And we look forward to Matt Vey being a flyer for a long time. Keith, you know, we're in the leaf's hour of our program here and we're talking about some of the new hires.

They intend to make one of the names that's coming up for a president-type role is Matt's son-deen. You've got some experiences sort of taking on this role of president You know, for an organization that you spent time with, what are maybe some of the challenges or, you know, what are you faced with when you take on that role to begin with? Well, your number one priority is to help your general manager and make sure that you're giving him everything he needs

in order to do his job to the fullest. Obviously, Matt would have that as far as a wealth of experience about the market that he would be working in. also about the game itself. He played it at an extremely high level. I think he would be a real benefit with his knowledge of the sports. How much he's paid attention to the players of today's game would matter. You know, you want someone that's watching hockey every night that's around hockey

that understands the league and has a good feel for the kids that are arriving and the ones that are here playing. So that's a big. help, I think, especially for me, is the fact I was doing TV for as long as I did and had a great perspective from different angles, including at ice level, on a lot of the current players that are playing. I do think there's value in that. But I think Matt's would be a great choice. And his, you know, ability to know the marketplace, I think, would really serve the fans in Toronto well.

Keith, really appreciate your time, as always, when you come on our show. Best of luck in the second round, my friend. I appreciate it, guys. Thanks so much. Thanks for your time. Good luck. That is Keith Jones, President Hockey Operations of the Philadelphia Flyers. We're on to the second round.

Great to hear Jones. Top eight. 32 teams in the league. They're in the top eight Philadelphia Flyers. Yeah, you remember he was the best used to have them on? Oh, he was a great guest. Yeah. Hawk was a good one, too.

Oh, yeah. They stole two of our best guests. I love to have him on. You look at that organization and some of the names coming up, like that Alex Bump, they pulled him out of the press box and threw him in his best player

on the team that night. And then they put him, has to come out again. They're meat potatoes, man. They're talk at, they're... They're not big, I don't think. They have a couple big D, but like I think of... Do they have one guy that you can say,

and Sandheim was a beast, too? He's the one guy that I think can come close to controlling pace of play out there. He's a stud. He's a stud. When Canada had their backs against a wall, it was like, if it wasn't a car, he was like the best guy. Yeah, he was really good.

But yeah, watching their team, it's like you can see how they should be in the mix for a lot of years to come, but then also how they have, I don't want to call guys expendable, but like if they wanted to do something bigger, they seem like a team that's reasonably well equipped. They have four first rounders in the next three years, all their picks in the second round,

four third rounders. Like they got prospects. They can do something. Robert Thomas? They can do some things. What do you think of their chance against Carolina? Is he still there? Is Jones you off the line?

I didn't like Philly and overtime. They got caved in for the whole. I was like, it's a matter of time. Pittsburgh was all over them. Sid, just with a couple of these little touch passes out in front, the puck ends up right at the top of the blue paint. You thought it was going to be that, but it just never happened. I don't know who cut in front of the net last night.

Santa. And he tries to feather it. Oh, you're huge. Oh, just shovel it. Oh, just shovel. He tried to feather it. I will say it's like you text me about Dewar the other night. It's like, gosh, you didn't bring a player.

I don't know, maybe you didn't get a chance. Connor Dewer? Yeah. Was awesome. That line was awesome. But every time he was on the out, he's buzzing, he's got the puck on a string. He's, he's dancing. Did he have the puck in Toronto?

No, once? Noel, Aciar, and Lazot, that fourth line. They were getting every second shift in overtime. I'm going to get one of the best fourth lines in the league. Two former leaves. Dewar almost didn't score here, right? He played like 20, 30 games before he shot one in.

I was a proud member of the dudes. I love Connor Deer. I thought he had some potential. What we really liked was his interviews, straight out of the pod. Just like, no punch in the mouth. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, that's the end of the Pittsburgh Penguins for the year. So yeah, Carolina Flyers. Carolina obviously pretty heavy favorites. I don't think Billy would argue with that. I would say that. I would say that. But it's all, like what Freddie Anderson is going to show up. If not this year for Carolina, boys.

Does that Lidar signing the best signing a summer? Wide open, A, for a conference final or Stanley Cup final? It's got to be Carolina. They have to do it this year. They can't stumble. You're going to get Montreal or Tampa or Boston or Buffalo. Yeah. Conference final.

They'll be favored in every series until they get to the final. the final. This one and the next one, and then depends who they play in the final. If it's Colorado, they probably won't be favored, but if it's another team, they might be. God, the NHL, just hoping they, go, Flyers, go. Yeah.

Betman's wearing an orange suit. Oh, no, Batman, he got all those teams down there. He'll be fired up about having the Carolina team in there, wouldn't he? Oh, the ratings from the Philly games or through the roof. ESPN is getting two million on like Tuesday nights. Maybe they'll get a, yeah, maybe they'll get a favorable whistle. Is that the Olympic bump?

Is that what that is? I think it's the market. Or people just waking up. Buffalo's in it. Billy's back, Pittsburgh's back. I think good hockey markets are back. We did our duty as a Canadian nation. We let them win.

They're growing their game down there, exploding their fans. We had to do it. So nice of you, Sammy. We had to do it. We're just trying to keep the game afloat. What a trooper you are. We're charitable. We need the Americans money.

Our thanks to Steve Peters talking Arizona slash Phoenix Coyotes. If you get a chance, download it. Also, Keith Jones, our thanks. Wish him the best of luck in the second round. Plenty more on Real Kipper and Bourne as we go National next. Kevin Lowe, six-time Stanley Cup champion.