Real Kyper & Bourne - GM Meetings Breakdown with Doug MacLean

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

Justin Bourne is again joined by guest host Gord Stellick as they welcome Doug MacLean for his Off-the-Rails Friday appearance! Mac gets into the best way to prepare for the playoffs during a stretch run, Doug Armstrong being named GM of team Canada, the Red Wings' fighting in practice, if the NHL needs to close the LTIR cap loophole and what is discussed at GM meetings. Finally, they regroup with Sam McKee to answer your questions on the text line!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome back to real kipper and born i am justin born i am joined for the second hour by gourd stella today gourd thanks again uh my pleasure my pleasure when i you know i was going to stay one hour but then i heard it's off the rails with Doug McClain. So I clamored and I begged and I lobbied to please, please, please, let me stay a second hour. I know. I'm so excited to get to him. I do have to throw a really quick live on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 650 in

Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour of Real Kipper Born brought to you by Bet365. And now we get to be joined by Doug McClcclain without nick kiprios dougie mac how are you feeling about being on a show without kip well it's it's an honor and it's not very often i get to be on with a you know a former fellow gm and it's it's kind of a treat and i so it's funny i i mentioned to somebody today that I was going to be on with Gordon Stelic and uh you know which is always fun because we've always had a lot of laughs over the years but this guy was very serious about this question and I I I think he's

wrong but he wanted to know if you were the GM of the lease when the Andy Bathgate deal was done for Don McKinney and Andy Bathgate to come from the Rangers in 63 were you part of that Stanley Cup acquisition I had played a small role in it of course it was uh yes Andy Bathgate everyone Dick Duff and Bob Nevin going the other way and uh yeah no that was that was of course as you know a punch MLAC trade and uh whatever from way back when. And I was – it's in the book, 67, though. I'll still talk about the book Revival, which Damian Cox, I did about the 78 team. Of course, your book just kicked ass, Draft Day.

But it's in the 67 book about – you can find out if you're tired of reading Doug's book. Okay, anyway, I told Jeff Rimmer he was wrong on this, but he was convinced he was right on the timing. Well, I look really good if I'm Punch Imlach's assistant back in 1964. I feel pretty happy how I look right now. I can't believe we just had

draft day show up on screen. I actually have it crossed out in Doug's bio of all the great things Doug did. We're tired of talking about the book. No, you never stop talking about a book. You know that, Justin. Doug knows that. I know that. Bunch of authors here.

But I got another beef, by the way. So when I was working radio in Toronto, I had the Mercedes, Burlington Mercedes deal. Remember that one, Gord? Yep. Yep. I saw your reaction when Kip just read a commercial, by the way. I'm thinking, are you kidding me? So anyway, they made me, because I had the deal done by myself.

It wasn't through Sportsnet or anybody. So every time I had a chance on Hockey Sound, I'd say, oh, I love my new Mercedes. I love it. I outed Burlington. they do a great job. So finally they told me to shut up and stop mentioning it or they're going to fire me. So anyway, Kip and Kippy. So Kippy pounces on the deal.

I'm evolving. Yeah, and you can assume that that deal is also a separate deal that does not include co-hosts, I promise. Oh, yeah. There's only one thing about Kippyippy it's always about kippy no you you work with the champion mccowan about throwing little products and i mean this car deal obviously they pay the station right so that's the big thing but to work six or seven products you've worked with some masters in oh no it's it was priceless but anyway it was good to see Kip. I'm glad Kip, he's got a new Mercedes to drive around in.

That's great. I mean, I'm into those. Now that I'm retired and out of the mix, I've got no freebies coming here, you know? Sounds like you're doing okay, Doug. We're not too concerned about you. Oh, my God. I had an intense pickleball game this morning.

Like, it was intense. Did you win? I played this week with the pros. I got moved up a category, so I played with the pros, and then I played this morning with my 80-year-old buddy here at the condo, and I kicked his ass. I was too

hard on him. This is like leaving your top power play unit out when you're up 6-1. You just lay the beat down and no mercy. That's like Keith using Bertuzzi in these key situations. He's become a monster for them. It's amazing what Matthews can do for Bertuzzi. It's great to see.

They may want to leave them together and get Mitch to maybe drag up some other people when he comes back. You suggested to Kip, I'm not going to. Now, Iris uh in the alumni box chris broadhurst to the ex-therapist and he did say pickleball injuries like everybody's on the rise so the popularity that's what he's treating nowadays now hey so what have you thought about we're trying to get this what what is the best way to best prepare you for the playoffs as far as how you finish the regular season, as far as your regular season goes. The Maple Leafs have had every conceivable type,

and every year it's been a playoff disappointment. Let's make sure you do not have a bobblehead night. Make sure of that. You do not want to do that. Look, I like the way the Leafs are playing right now. I mean, you know, Samsonov has come back and has looked good. Wall, we hope, is going to be really solid like he was before the injury and, you know, seems to be fine.

Can Edmonston stay healthy? Can the group on the back end stay at least healthy, you know, for the playoffs? And I think that's like you heard the players talk after last night's game is rest. Make sure you're 100 percent rested. And, you know, you've got to you've got to move the pressure around. They've been under extreme pressure the last few years, guys, going into the first round. From everybody, from us, from every media in Canada. So to go in, I think they're going to go in loose this year.

I think going against Boston is a good matchup for them. I think if they go in loose and healthy, it's going to be a heck of a series. So at the deadline, GMs are making all these decisions and there's a heck of a series so at the deadline gms are making all these decisions and there's a lot of scrutiny in canada and trying to add pieces to a team that's not built i want to take you in a little bit of a different direction doug armstrong was just named gm for team canada uh wanted to get your thoughts on him being the guy and just what's different about that selection process and how you build out a staff from there that's that's a an interesting one you know it's it's you know whether it's the olympics whether it's the four nations it's it's it's pretty interesting process to go through i'm

sure i never experienced it but i'll tell you what you know d, Doug has been there with Iserman and, you know, in the assistance role. So that's a big advantage. You take people off. I mean, let's not forget Iserman in the St. Louis debacle, you know, when they were together in Tampa and the pressure that put on on both sides. But it's an exciting thing for Doug to get a chance. He's the most experienced GM and the longest serving GM in the league. One of the most experienced. He deserves a chance at it. You know, he'll put a good quality staff together. have been good to you in your career and give them an opportunity to go into a short-term event that's not really a ton of work, but it would certainly be a ton of satisfaction and a lot of fun. And, you know, it's not like building a team, but you are building a team in a short-term event. And short-term events are tough because you've got to strategize as to who are going to be key guys in these short-term, high-pressured events.

Speaking of Steve Iserman, we're getting some great playoff races, once again, courtesy of the Red Wings just hitting a wall. So, I mean, about what you do when you're Derek Lalonde right now. And also, hey, I mean, Steve Iserman, I think, is still Teflon, obviously, in Detroit. But this is taking a lot longer than Tampa Bay did for him. Listen, this is tough going. And when you hear that guys are fighting in practice, you know the tension is starting to mount. So we've had brawls in Detroit and brawls in Vancouver. You know, guys mixing it up because of major frustration and being ticked off

and being unhappy with the way situations are. Look, Stevie made a big pitch this summer to bring in a veteran group to solidify his kids. And everybody thought it was going really well. But you know what? If you don't have great goaltending? If you don't have great goaltending, if you don't have great goaltending and you're still young and you bring in veterans,

you still need great goaltending. And I'm not sure they're getting good enough goaltending right now. Not bad, but you've got to get great goaltending this year. The fans will not be happy in detroit if they don't make the playoffs this year they're expecting it and that you know i remember sitting at the first year saying okay who's going to be better ottawa columbus ottawa buffalo or detroit who was going

to be the best team of that group that would take a step and And you know what? It's scary how all of them may miss. None of them have taken a step that we thought they would take. Detroit, I guess, is the closest right now. That's hard to believe. It is. What's funny is I heard Patrick Kane interviewed after the practice fight. And he was like, I think we'd be more disappointed if guys were walking around here smiling and happy. They're happy about this animosity.

Have you had cases where you've had guys on your team that are fighting, you're trying to keep apart? Like, I'm trying to get a vibe for you if you see it as a positive for a team as Kane did. Well, you know what? I'll never forget in Detroit, we had Primo and Probert go in practice and Primo was a kid.

That's a real one. That's a real one. That was a real one that's a real one that was that was a real one and i you know but no guy it's i'll never forget you guys may not remember this name but i'll never forget my first year in the nhl in st louis in 1987 we were going through a tough time and brian sutter was our captain brian sutter, who was a competitive, tough guy. And you remember him, Gordy, how good of, this was a 30 goal score, 180 pounder,

who would just, you know, tough as nails. He and Jimmy Pavese went toe to toe in practice. And I'm thinking, I'm trying to get in between and break them up. And I'm thinking, ah, I don't think I'm going to get in between these two and break them up. I'm going to let them tire themselves out like the linesmen do but it was it was it just people get ticked off and people are feeling pressure i don't think it's a bad thing but that was our captain

brian sutter fighting our number five defenseman jimmy pavis in a practice fight. So, look, tensions run high. I never had it as a coach in Florida, a fight in practice. We had Paul Laws who had 50 fights for us in the regular season. So, you know, that was enough watching him. But, you know, tensions are – look, it's really hard. When I watch Buffalo and Ottawa and these teams that are out of it and Columbus, it's so hard on the head. Like how much how much punishment can can fans take with what's going on right now? I mean, I get I always send a Bruce Garriott a note last night after Ottawa beat Columbus.

I said, is it true that I got blamed for the loss that I got blamed last night? Or was Mel Bridgman blamed for the loss last night by Ottawa? So a team that I just assume is going to be there, and along with Carolina, Colorado, number one, stole the trade deadline spotlight. The Vegas Golden Knights lose to Calgary last night. There are only a few points. Like, I feel comfortable they're going to be there,

but I'm kind of wondering, Doug, they're basically healthy except for Mark Stone now and Martinez. What's your take on very pedestrian play by that team? Well, you know, I thought it was, I mean, obviously they stole the trade deadline. I mean, Carolina did a great job. They did a great, you know, half a dozen teams did really nice work.

Them in particular. The hurdle thing blew me away. He did a great, you know, half a dozen teams did really nice work. Them in particular. The hurdle thing blew me away. Like, you know, that shows you a GM that is really doing his homework and taking a deep dive into a guy that's injured with seven years left or whatever on his contract and making that move. But I'll tell you one thing that's bothered me about them lately is I don't like their goaltending. And they look, their goaltending come up really big last year in the playoffs, guys.

They got a couple of guys. I mean, the big guy, they're six foot six guy. And we talked about it on the show a few weeks ago. I mean, the pucks are going through this guy like crazy. Thompson and what? Aiden Hill, is it? Yeah. I mean, I mean, really pucks are going through this guy. He's a six foot six gold and just block it, block it. That's what he did last year.

But I, that, that, that goaltending situation will be very interesting to watch because these first round battles are going to be unbelievable. So they are having the GM meetings in Florida. I am fascinated by the GM meetings and how these things, I guess there's some presentations.

Maybe you can tell us a bit more about what is presented of these, but they're going to talk about the LTIR situation. Do you think they need to close this loophole? You know what? I've seen guys with the commentary lately. Look, it bothered me a couple of years ago when the Kucherov situation where, you know, he starts to skate near the end of the season and, you know, he's back. He's skating for like two months, Doug. Oh, I know.

I know. It's crazy. And they win the Stanley Cup with $104 million payroll. So that was so – I don't think that was the start of it. There was another one that might have been prior. Kane in 2015. That's right. Patrick Kane was the start of it. There was another one that might have been prior. Kane in 2015. That's right. Patrick Kane was the other one.

Yeah. So, look, it's going on. It's a loophole. And Kenny Holland, you know, how do you have it in the playoffs, guys? How do you have a salary cap in the playoffs if all of a sudden bodies start to fall? So, I don't know what they're going to do. I've seen the commentary about if they've got to play the last game of the season, you know, to be eligible and this. But I don't know how they're going to get around.

And then they can't do anything till I go to a collective bargaining agreement. And and I guarantee you, Marty, Marty has got to make a stand here because there has been no P.A. In my opinion, for the last seven, eight years. As a PA, do they still have an office before Marty came in? Because nothing has been done out of that office that I've seen. It's been a joke, okay, in my opinion. My humble opinion, it's been a joke. So Marty has got to take a stand here.

Am I wrong in that, Gord? You know, it's funny because Don Feer was such a big figure in baseball, and you're right. He just was very vanilla, and people seem to think the office is shut down between collective bargaining agreement negotiations. So certainly Marty is keen up there and wants to be on the

cutting edge of everything, if he can. I thought he was a shareholder in back roads, that holiday excursion thing that we were all over the world on these hiking trips because I never heard of him. I never heard of him. So Marty is going to take a stand. And is Marty going to give up things in this?

I'm very excited about this negotiation when it happens. And what is it, another year plus? Sadly, yeah. That would be interesting. No, I don't know how much time we have left, so I wanted to make sure I added one. Okay, lots, but before, because, Doug, one thing seeing you, and I don't want you to critique the trade deadline shows,

but it's funny seeing your face. I think of when we did trade deadlines together over the years, I don't know if they changed it, but they would fly in so many people right and you'd be there and you go oh you're coming up in 10 minutes uh okay no sit down we got pierre lebrun in uh hartford oh you're you're whatever and we go for beers after 90 of us were pissed off right right you know what i mean like we're supposed to tell the players they're supposed to be team out there but they would have way too many people. And some of these guys just for the day were at 2 o'clock.

I've only been on once, you know? What about the goalie they brought in? I was on the panel with them all day. They were trying to get rid of me. I knew that one. I left trade deadline that day. What was his name? Ilya Berskalov.

Ilya Berskalov. Yeah, they put me with Berskalov on a panel, and I went out after, and I said, they're trying to fire me. They want me to quit. They're not going to fire me. They want me to quit. They put me with him the whole damn day. What the hell is this? What's Greg

Wyshynski's handle? Puck Daddy. Remember Puck Daddy and Stelectricity? So I was on with Wyshynski once, and then Wyshynski let me know. Doug wasn't happy about whatever we said. So anyway, I talked to you about it, but you just said, no, trade deadline day. We're waiting for a flight that keeps getting canceled all the time.

I think they do it a lot better now than they can cut away to more and more desk in the big studio. But I remember days that started with so much optimism and joy. And then after just people drowning their sorrows about the way it all went. Yeah, it was priceless. I mean, yeah. I mean, obviously, Kippy was always a star. So we had to always, you know.

And then all of a sudden, Elliot started to become a little bit of a star. It was a fight for stardom. John Shannon, he wanted to be a star they all wanted to be stars i just wanted to survive um so the hearing all the nhlpa talk i actually forgot it gives me a reason to bring up something we haven't yet on this show uh which is the the cory per Chicago. The NHLPA must have got involved there. Not sure if you saw, but they settled on that contract. Any insight onto how that works? Like they didn't grieve it, but they just decided this whole thing has just gone away now?

Yeah, I don't know how much the PA would have got involved in it, but Gord would agree with me on this, that there's a pit bull in Toronto by the name of Pat Morris, who absolutely loves Corey Perry, and he has since he was 18 or 19, and I can guarantee you that he was on that from day one. And, you know, it seemed to be a little bit of a rush situation when all of a sudden boom a contract is terminated um i would say there was some rookie or inexperienced management mistakes made in the way that was handled in terms of overly cautious yeah yeah well my take on

and making and making the you know the announcement that the contract is terminated it's not an easy thing to do and it shouldn't be an easy thing to do right uh so uh i i suspect the way i know pat morris who by the way has gone missing on me. If you see Pat Morris, tell him he owes me a phone call. He's with Kate Middleton somewhere. I've been waiting six weeks for the call. Tell him. Okay, I will.

My take on it, Doug and Justin, is that the collective bargaining agreement is what the rules, right? And I think Chicago, because all that's happened, they've got a code of conduct within that is maybe the most stringent of all 32 teams. So whatever Corey Perry did or didn't do, or did,

violated that, but it didn't contravene the CBA, I don't think. So I bet you, I bet you, without knowing, he probably got pretty well all his money. And they just kind of made it nice. Half of them got an assigning bonus anyway, right? So I of you know made it nice we happily got an assigning bonus anyway right so i bet you that was a particularly because as you say there's no bite from the pa and pat morris is going to defend his client so he's in edmonton he's in a i guess a happier place i i may write my next book on how the code of conduct doesn't seem to work all the time because i i could write a book on the

situations going back to st louis detroit to columbus like oh my florida a scandal book a tell-all a bridge burning book let's let's do that one i'll write it for you and i i think my uh literary how do you say that literary agentary agent? Yeah. You got it. Asked me if I would be interested in doing a second book. Brian, you know Brian? Yeah, of course, Brian. Yeah, the call lasted like 20 seconds. Like, get lost. See you later.

You've never had a phone call last 20 seconds. Yeah. I doubt that. Maybe 20 minutes. That's about the minimum. So, Doug, what do the GM meetings look like? Like you guys just in a big old conference hall and someone stands in the middle and says, here's a topic, kick it around.

How is it sort of, I'm trying to picture it in my mind. You know what, it's really, it really is Obviously, I don't know how much it's changed. I mean, look, you always have a great a great venue, you know, a beautiful resort. It's a it's a great opportunity for the guys to get away from their teams. It's a great opportunity to get together with fellow GMs. And you see, you know, you always see three and four or five, six guys hanging out, talking. It's great that way. But it's a very – I think Coley Campbell and the guys do –

and Mike Murphy when they were involved do a great job of setting it up because there's all kinds of rules in situations, controversial things where they want to hear, have small group presentations, small group situations where you go off and try to come up. I remember when we're doing this, you know, the three on three and the shootout and all those type of things. GMs are heavily involved. And there was great discussions with four and five guys in these short panels, as well as when we're making the rule changes you know it was unbelievable for my for me to sit in there when they were taking the

slap you know banging of the stick the stick touching the body stick touching the hands and so listen to bob gainey talk about that as a former star checker, one of the great defensive players of the game, to hear Bobby Clark talk about those situations when we're making these rule changes. So really, you know, it was a well-organized, well-structured meeting as far as the GM's meetings. And I always, I always, it was a great learning experience to be quite honest.

I think it's kind of like more of the American style that they're the, like they're the Congress and then the president, the governors are the, are the, are the Senate. Yeah. And Gary Bettman is the president, you know? So it's kind of like. What it is, it's the, they're like the house of commons in Canada. Okay.

And the governors are like the Senate who do nothing. This is in Canada we're talking about. Yes, the Senate. Okay, okay. It's like a retirement job. Yeah, that's what it's similar. There you go. Well, Doug, how is your retirement job going as being a professor?

Where's your professor? I enjoyed it. Last night was scouting. The scouting process was the title last week. The week before was the role of the GM. The week before that was the collective bargaining agreement. Next week, it's analytics. I'm enjoying it.

I do it an hour every Wednesday night. Some great questions from the students. I've really kind of enjoyed it. I really do. The problem I have is it's at eight o'clock at night and eight to nine. You know, it's tough to get up and play pickleball and golf. I have a 7 a.m. tea time twice a week, so it affects my sleep habits, you know? Well, listen, we appreciate you coming on, even with no Kip, and we'll see if he can get you in on the Mercedes deal

this time around. Gord, it's such a great thing to see you, Gord, because we always have so many laughs, so it's great to see you. And I don't get a chance to listen to your show. And I've, I couldn't go on twice this week, once because of pickleball lessons and once because of golf.

So tell your guy to please keep in touch. Cause I feel terrible about it. Well, we love having you on just like here. So anyway, always great catching up. We go way back. So it's always fun.

That's for sure. Thanks guys. Thanks Mac. Appreciate it. That is Doug McLean, guys. Thanks, Mac. Appreciate it. That is Doug McLean, former NHL president, GM, head coach, author, teacher. Do you know what would never happen now is just in general about, you know, the assistant coaches don't talk, right, publicly? I don't know when all that came.

Isn't that only like a Lou thing and then the Leafs still do it? I don't know don't see it happen anywhere i don't well you can't get an assistant coach on for media right which he used to be able to and i think of i can remember the media talked about doug mclean was well really unknown he was an assistant coach in st louis and jock martin brought him there and he'd been in new brunswick so this he landed an nhl job like that so they kidded that i remember all the media talked about where they were chatting with the blues and then this assistant coach doug mcclain goes no we're not done yet come on ask us some more questions right now imagine nowadays that

is something we talk about or in the paper and obviously uh that worked out well for doug because he had a great career in the management side the coaching side but also he showed right then why he's so successful in the media side from the word but also he showed right then why he's so successful in the media side from the word go it is fascinating that you know i i guess the fear with letting assistant coaches speak is that you present a ununified message it's definitely not a word ununified but you know what i mean yeah and it's such a shame because we lose a lot of great insights and personalities yeah i mean there's there's so many hilarious hockey guys that have such excellent assistant coaches because you want guys like that to on the ice to keep it light and yeah the assistant coach thing that i think of

recently was that steve ott clip where they he was behind the bench and his kid was up on the jumbotron taking off his shirt and he's trying not to laugh i love that we gotta get paul mclean on speaking of so wonderful uh he mentioned brian sutter in that um in that practice fight whenever he brings up a name i'm not like i'm familiar with him but i didn't know what his career looked like i was bringing the hockey db they don't make them like this anymore in 82 83 in 79 games he had 46 goals 30 assists and 254 penalty minutes and didn't doug say he's like 180 pounds there's pounds? There's just not that hockey player anymore. That does not exist.

Well, he set the template for five other Sutters to make it, right? I mean, basically, and it's funny. I remember being in St. Louis for a morning skate once, and in Toronto, like under Battle, the kids weren't welcome around, okay? So kids weren't there and that, but there, it was kind of casual, and some of the players kids were on the ice st louis blues and i remember sutter was on i his kid was maybe six i don't know small and mostly it's just a fun thing man he was on his kid's ass like they were out

there first and it was not he was not like a pleasure skating okay this was not the deal for his kid being out there. You know, I lose track of which kids made the NHL of all the Sutter's because a few of them did, so I don't know. There's a lot of Sutter's. Yeah. Two of them played with my dad online. Oh, right.

That's right. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Sutter ties. Do you want to do game time? Well, I think the break, we'll do it after. Okay.

We're going to go to break. When we come back, we'll do some game time and we'll take some texts. Text 590, 590. Text, text text text uh thank you doug mclean and we'll be back after this hey it's ben ennis and i'm brent cunning we got you covered on all things leafs rafters and blue jays every weekday morning six to nine it's the fan morning show sportsnet 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. It is time for some very fun stuff in a moment, which includes text.

But first, we want to have a quick chat about one thing. The Sabres are not dead, guys. Hey, let's do game time first. Game time first? Yes. All right, game time first. Let's do game time first. All right, it's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app, latest odds,

and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Only two games tonight. And I wouldn't say either of them are barn burners. The Winnipeg Jets are home to the Anaheim Ducks. The Winnipeg Jets are minus 450.

So not a ton of value on them there. And the other one is the LA Kings. Like I said, they're minus 280 against the Chicago Blackhawks. So not a ton of value to be found in either of those games. But the thing that has made my heart warm is that Conor Bedard has started to, you know, after that injury has come come back he's put the bubble on and he started to look like a rookie of the year caliber guy i love a conor bedard goal tonight give me a conor bedard goal at plus 180 and if you want to get really frisky give him the first goal of the game at 10 to 1 no 18 year old has ever had

three points in a game three games in a row andold has ever had three points in a game, three games in a row. And he has five points, three points in the last two games. So, got a chance to do it tonight. Really? Yeah. I mean, there's been some really good 18-year-olds in the league. I mean, that surprises me. And he's also above a point per game now, which is an unbelievable feat on a team that is

terrible. They are a really bad team. So, he seems to find some chemistry with that Khrushchev. So, Gordo, I just wanted to ask you this. Who do you think would be, I know you're not a gambling guy, but who do you think is the favorite to win the Stanley Cup? According to the books.

I'm trying to guess what, you're going to give me the answers? I'll give you the answer. The fact they picked the Carolina Hurricanes is not the answer, correct? No. Florida Panthers. They are not the favorite. They're the second favorite. You didn't let me finish They are not the favorite. They're the second favorite. You didn't let me finish. I was going to say they're the second favorite. And the first favorite are, gosh, what?

In the West? Edmonton? It's Edmonton. Oh, wow. I'm really surprised by that, too. They are plus 550 to win the Stanley Cup, and the next closest is the Florida Panthers. It's 7-1.

So they're jumping on it that it's a Canadian team. It's public money. They want more money on it. But 5-1 is surprising. I'm going to say a thing here where I need Vancouver fans to plug their ears because we've done this recently. But just saying, the Oilers have three fewer games played than Vancouver.

Okay. If they were to win two of them, they would be five points back with 15 games to go. If they were to win all three, they would be three points back with 15 games to go. Are we sure the Pacific Division's a wrap? It's a great question, and I am not sure. I think the Oilers are, I mean, another excellent take by me.

I think they're an extremely good team, and they've just really gotten build and build towards the right part of the year. So I'm just saying it's not out of the question. It's very unlikely Vancouver probably wins it going away, but I'm not saying the Oilers are done yet. And the Toronto Maple Leafs are 15-1 to win the cup there. They're going all the way down. A lot of teams in front of them.

So probably the right spot. Wait, sorry, their odds are better than they would have been a month ago, I assume. Yeah, no, they've always been in that range because it's still the Leafs and they want the big public teams to be getting the money on them. But yeah, they're 15 to 1. But I mean, if they at least they'll win the cup, I mean, they're going to have to

fold Vegas because there's going to be a lot of money on that. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. Find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

Playoff runs. Playoff odds. Playoff pushes. The Buffalo Sabres, which I mentioned when we came out of the break. I should have looked at the odds for them to make the playoffs. Keep continuing. Yeah. I think it's 9%.

8% or 9%, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually wrote on that the other day. It's about the window they were in. Right now, they're three points behind the New York Islanders. Just three points.

Now, the Isles have two more games played, but the Sabres are kind of making a push. They're a positive goal differential team. Ukapeka Lukinen is the best goalie in the NHL since January 1st of 2024. To me, this isn't... Because I think we talked about this earlier in the NHL since January 1st of 2024. To me, this isn't... I think we talked about this earlier in the week, in fact,

where I was not going to get excited about the Sabres until... Every year, they seem like them and the Sens. Everybody kind of says that this is their year to take the step. They've said that for a few years. And Detroit. I don't want to have those combos, really. But to me, they really do look excellent. And I love that Byram trade for them. And I just't want to have those combos really. But to me, they really do look excellent

and I love that Byram trade for them. And I just feel like they have great goaltending. They seem like a team that's just having some fun and they don't really have a lot of expectations on them now. Out of all those teams that are down there, why not them? But it's all been facilitated by Detroit just hitting a wall. Yes. That's what's happening.

It's not teams making a push. So last year, there was a two-week period where Buffalo, Ottawa, and Detroit all spent at least one day in the playoffs. Really? All of them did at one point. For Detroit, it ended whenever they had two consecutive road games in Ottawa. One was a make-up because of Canada. They lost them both, knocked them out. And then the team that got into the end were the Floridaida panthers but all those three were there for a day and is detroit going

to see history repeat itself that they were there for many days yeah and it doesn't now they play buffalo tomorrow that is a four pointer and boy i like to see the bets on that one but that is a four that is a playoff type game uh in detroit tomorrow the buffalo sabers and then the washington capitals are one point out. I know. They're one point out. And Philadelphia, we kicked off the show talking about, for the first time this year to me, looks a little vulnerable.

I'm saying that with respect because they never were supposed to make the playoffs. But every time they slid, they seemed to stop it. And they get entrenched again. But I wonder if this time they really are vulnerable or not dude philly is you know they're five points sorry four points up on you know the teams that are on the cusp of these playoffs and they've got the most games played like they're philly's in jeopardy here so there are playoff spots available and i'm just gonna say it pittsburgh and new jersey their seasons aren't over is all i'm saying they're not over they have 17 games left and

they're respectively five and four points out of a playoff so it's a lot of teams that's the problem but they're right there those two are like when a relationship hits a wall or guests that stay too long okay they're hanging around too long like you stayed in a relationship that you you know hung around too long in should have or your guests that you wish they went home five days ago. That's the Devils and the Pittsburgh Penguins right now. They lose or something. Oh, they're done.

Well, no, they're not done. It's going to be formidable, but if you get a Nashville Predator-type run, you could be there. It's right there. It's hilarious, actually. The Red Wings, plus three goal differential. Sabres, plus two.

And in between them is the Capitals minus 31. So good for them for hanging in there. So I said we'd get the text today. Minus 31? I know. They're terrible. And I get yelled at by Capitals fans all the time. Okay.

Got a million texts. So I'm just trying to pour through them here. This is one that's interesting because we never really do ref talk on this show. But I want to get both. I would say you spend a lot of time saying we don't do it talk on this show. But I want to get both. I would say you spend a lot of time saying we don't do it. We don't. But we do some. Rarely.

Okay. We rarely, like, I mean, I feel like a lot of, anyways. How can we get the NHL to address the error issues and the non-call issues with officiating? It just seems that the rules are being applied differently to some teams. And I'm sure that's a Leaf fan texting in that thinks the league's against the Leafs. But do you guys feel like the officiating is really bad in the NHL? Go ahead. I don't.

I think it's a hard sport. Go ahead, Gordon. Best officials in the world? I absolutely don't. And the fact that there's conspiracy theories alluding like they're favoring one team over the other. I like the idea of the NBA now gives a report out like the last, they'll go over what the last part of the game and they'll be candid and

honest, break it down. I still don't know why you can't have a pool reporter say, talk to Wes McCauley after he threw John Tortorella out. And maybe the officials wouldn't like it, but I think, I think it would give them a chance to give an explanation. So after the game, when everything's cooled down, something to say if there is a question and, you know, just to get that. That's maybe what helped it with the public a little bit as well

to humanize the officials a bit. And I actually think in terms of getting that statement from the officials, instead of putting them on the spot, allowing them to prepare a statement on it to say after the game, you know, the pool could come up with three questions. You submit it to them or something and say, hey say hey we just like to get a response from these and sure it could be oral but they should be able to see the questions they're going to be asked so it's not like you're you know get them in a gotcha moment or something like that so they can at least help

us understand what the thinking was in many of these cases i think that as expansion happens it's going to get harder there's more games to officiate there's more officials needed that it's going to water it down a little bit some nights and that is part of the problem yeah and once the playoffs start then they get the quote-unquote best guys and yeah so i'll assign uh west mccauley to the leafs and then we'll get to talk about it for some i've talked about it before because doug mcclain alluded to bob clark talking to general managers meetings and i just remember and i'm talking over 30 years ago, being in a general managers meeting. And that subject came up again about officiating. And guys were kicking around.

And Bobby Clark got up with a few expletives and said, we're on these guys' asses all the time. How the hell do they know what to, how the hell do they know what we want? We keep changing our minds. He said, look, the right teams win the Stanley Cup and the buildings are full, okay? Leave it at that. That's really good. And it was just a good cut.

So here we are 30 plus years later, the same kind of dialogue being out there. That's Bobby Clark. I will say, you know, there's no doubt that, so the Leafs have historically, well, in the Matthews era, they don't take many penalties because they're not a dirty team.

These are not physical guys. And ins era they don't take many penalties because they're not a dirty team these are not physical guys and in turn they don't draw a lot officials tend to say and we gave three to these guys we got to give a couple of these guys the leafs don't take a lot so they don't get a lot of calls so they're always at the bottom it's a lot of five on five i think people just see calls missed and get frustrated because the leafs don't i don't know they're not in games where penalties are called um gourd. Armstrong, Keon, Sittler, Clark, Gilmore, Sundin. Who is the best Leafs captain and why? Okay. So, first of all, there's positives about all of them.

And I saw Daryl Sittler today at the Easterseals skate. He's going to be honored this year at the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Consummate Dinner. Nice. So, he was a captain during a difficult era i think he would be the um the guy beyond george armstrong doing the book on the 1967 team and back then being a captain was a lot more difficult because you were you know there wasn't the relationship with management and that stuff and they talk about the kind of understated, quiet leader that he was.

And it was huge. And it's hard to compare different eras, Justin and Sam. You know, it's a little bit unfair, but I'll stick with this one. And I don't think Daryl or anybody else would take issue with that. Even though it was a long time ago for a team that won four Stanley Cups in seven years under a guy named Punch Imlach, who treated me very well, by the way, his second time around. But he balanced it really, really well.

And he was a guy that was incredibly respected, George Armstrong. Okay, there we go. It is fascinating to see eventually how Tavares falls in these conversations because he is a consummate professional. He treats everyone, you know, kindness and respect by all accounts. He works hard. He does all those things. But, you know, there's always issues where they haven't won,

so people get frustrated. He makes a lot of money. That bugs people. It's not Austin Matthews who's the face of the franchise. Is he the best leader? Don't know. It's not a knock. That's a great question.

No idea. Like off the top of my head, I would look at Morgan Riley. I'm not quibbling about it. I'm just saying. But, you know, but yeah, you know just just part of it i certainly respect all those things but what makes the best and again it's a different kind of leader than george armstrong's day or daryl siddler's day yeah but yeah you're not william wallace leading the troops in to battle or anything you're going and talking to the media guys every day saying

the same thing over and over that's what it's become a big thing. You're 100% right. It's funny. You're like a PR guy? Well, yeah. And I remember Dion Phaneuf wore the C with pride. But because he was with a losing team, and I really liked him, I got tired of him droning on all the time, a Leafs Nation postgame. And it wasn't his fault. No.

It's just that he had to be the guy. Those long breaths in between what he would say. Matt Sundin got to talk when he win. He got to go, as I said. He'd always do that. As I said, whatever. So he got to be fun talk. Here's a great text. Pretty simple. Why didn't you talk about Brayden Point yet?

Brayden Point, six points for the Tampa Bay Lightning. Nick Kiprios texting Sam and I about how wonderful Brayden Point is. Yeah, he was at that game last night. The one goal he scored was just the edge work on that. Special player. I think that's why the top end of that team,

they still sneak into a playoff series. And Braden Point and Kucherov and those guys are playing 25 minutes a night. You're like, well, they could probably beat anybody. You know, it's just they're still to me. And they really did a number to the rangers last night well they're they're you know it's funny because my the show i'm on nhl network radio we get those kind of complaints all the time hey you never talk about whatever you know why

but tampa bay but it's funny this has been a different year for them about they've been scratching clawing and scuffling and they're nowhere near as good a team as they were but they're elite players are elite players yes and they're carrying Oh no, we talked about a scrappy team that just gets in and has talent. It's them. Yeah. They're going to win. I wouldn't want to play them. But I mean, like before where there was a lot more balance and depth, whatever, they couldn't make it. They can't get Goodrow and Coleman and

those guys at the deadline and Hagel at the deadline anymore. But when they're elite players and he is one of them, when they're going, they're going. Scary. So it's weird. They're not comfortably in, but I just feel they're comfortably they're going, they're going. Scary. So it's weird. They're not comfortably in, but I just feel they're comfortably in. Yeah, it's just Vegas.

Yeah, they're fine. The difference with them is the goaltending, right? Where Vasilevsky has not been himself since he's come back. But if there's one guy that is going to flip the switch when the playoff starts, you'd think it's him. I mean, last year he wasn't very good. He was dealing with the injury. That's probably the main reason

the Leafs got past the first round last year and maybe i don't know i just i would want to play them the first round can i give you a weird braden point quirk yeah okay top 30 scores in the nhl this season uh 27 of them are plus hockey players you're looking at plus 27 mckinnon plus 31 mcdavid Matthews, plus 23. So the two that aren't, Jesper Bratt and William Nylander are minus one among players that have the plus minus. And the other guy is Braden Point, who's minus 14. Wow.

He's in the top 30 in scoring. He's 17th with 73 points, and he's dash 14. A lot of power play points, I guess. And what's his name? Stamkos is like, he is way up there on the Masters leaderboard. He's a big dash too. Oh, yeah. I think he's like minus 20-something.

Like, he's really way up there. I don't know if it means anything, but weird quirk. Has that person texted back said, enough about Braden Point? No, no, no. Just talk about the six points last night. Don't pull up that crap. Fashion question. Looking at Rocky Thompson's outfit last night don't pull up that crap fashion question looking at rocky thompson's

outfit last night has me thinking how far are we from uh away from seeing coaches dressed more like jb and sam and less like gordo hashtag casual friday so i believe rocky thompson was wearing a bolo tie last night but it was underneath like a like a starter jacket kind of thing it was a weird look it's a hell of a combo guess what i ain't telling rocky it looks bad to his face so keep it up whatever you want to do rocky i hope it never changes i you know i look at nba coaches wearing like the quarter zip and whatever and i don't know i'm a little bit of a stickler for this stuff like i feel the same way about like a golf People going collarless now. I just think

there are some places it's nice to look nice. Maybe this isn't one. And the NFL guys, you couldn't be Tom Landry anymore because you've got to wear a product. You've got to wear an NFL product. It's got to be fun. Belichick wearing the sleeveless NFL product.

Yeah, but I think it's got a stained New England logo. I think they're supposed to wear something there. I agree with you, Borny. I love the fact that the NHL guys still wear, but Torts doesn't do it. Yeah, Torts is making a push, isn't he? He wears just like a Philly jacket,

and sometimes he'll have like a tie underneath or whatever, but most of them wear a suit, which I still appreciate. I'll do a grump thing too. I also think that when guys show up to the rink with no tie, I don't like it. I was one of Grape's big things. Whenever they'd walk in, he'd be like,

look at this beautiful boy wearing the suit. Well, Lou Lamorello felt that those little things are about, about mandating a tie, tie and jacket were when you went there, you understood the importance of playing on NHL teams. Like he felt there was just a little subtle thing, but you went there you understood the importance of course yeah like he felt it was just a little subtle thing but you understood you know because later on you can dress casual when you own your company and spend your money right so it's funny little things people

do disagree and you know like in pga tour like for golfers they often have like a swing trigger or a pre-shot routine it's like okay this gets you in the mindset yeah to me that like you have a shower you put your suit on and you go to work. Yeah. You know, I like the idea of not just being like, you throw on your wrinkled whatever. I will say golf,

I've kind of started to, depends where I'm playing. Like, if I'm going to play with the boys at Lakeview, I'll go just t-shirt. A t-shirt? Yeah. Like, not like a band rip t-shirt

or something, but just like a nice t-shirt. Oh, I think the collar, I don't know. But in tennis, they've gotten away from the collar shirt though too. And it's all going that way and i guess it's fine doesn't make a difference i'm not gonna come out to scarborough and wear no collar all right but

but i i you know when you just want to go out and have a few you know beverages and just enjoy yourself you don't have to have a collar on let loose a little bit um does hyman get 60 goals this season gourd probably not Probably not. Insane question. So I did. I don't think that's viable. That's why. So I think I mentioned to you during the All-Star break, I got to be the host of two fan forums.

And one was Austin Matthews and Morgan Riley together, followed by Mitch Marner and William Nylander. Anyway, Marner was with Riley Riley Nylander with Matthews, whatever. And it was great. And there was a bunch of people with questions. And before Austin came, like Steve Keogh goes,

the PR guy goes, please, you're going to take questions. Please don't let it drag on about how all, all Austin's being asked is if he's going to score 70 goals. So I just, I got that out of the way. I just said,

look, we're not going to get, let's talk about other fun stuff. And as Austin, is it safe to say you're going to get this. Talk about other fun stuff. And Austin, is it safe to say you're going to try real hard to score every time you get the facility? So everyone kind of had a laugh. And that was that. So I don't get caught up about the numbers.

All I know is the first year they played together with the Leafs, Connor Brown scored 20 goals and Zach Hyman scored 10 in 82 games. So Connor's going to get 100 next time. That's extrapolation. So I'll say yes because i like the guy i don't care and i don't get i i don't know i don't get obsessed about the why i don't get obsessed about the number um no i do want to ask you is the answer i want to ask you about today you were with the leafs at the easter seal skate yeah yeah it's something they've done every

year i do and christine simpson and i were the host on two different rinks and uh and this is the what this is a marquee event always and you think the least played last night and you know they committed to this and so it's a lot of easter seals kids and their parents and it's also those that have raised a lot of money you know to go so it's a big thrill for them and it's funny so uh half so the players are split 50 50 to the two rinks and so the rink so i'm on microphone and one christine simpson's on the other and it's just a wonderful i you know the word magical is overused but it still is yeah it still and you know what these guys are really invested like you know morgan riley knows casey casey's like the top fundraiser he's uh he's just seal's kid who's

now an adult he just kicks ass man he's. He's awesome. He's out there. So my side, Morgan Riley and Austin, they have them at the bench now because there's no point. The other guys skate on the ice, but the lineups get too big for those guys. So the lineups are huge. You have to pull them off the ice. And I'm having on the microphone trying to, you know, it's like parking lots where they used to have the lights, and you're trying to get to your parking lot.

Hey, there's Connor Timmons down there, and there's Joe Wall, and there's T.J. Brody, and there's there's Noah Greger and hey, they're skating around. You know, if you look, they're going to be in the two big lines. But anyway, MLSC and the Toronto, and this isn't blowing smoke. It just is really nice. And they've always committed a firm date and it really benefits Easter Seals kids. So that's awesome. It's fun to be a part of.

Awesome, Gordo. You're really nice and we really appreciate your time. Thanks for hanging with us for a couple hours. It's been wonderful. Don't we have another hour? Sorry, no. Everyone, listen to Gordo's show, and you'll hear him on ours. Thanks again.

We appreciate it. Thanks to Doug McClain and to Mike Fuda, and we will be back on Monday. Thank you very much. We'll be right back.