Real Kyper & Bourne - GM Try-Outs Take Shape

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with some more GM talk and the potential of Brad Treliving stepping in for the Leafs after he reportedly met with Shanahan.  Next, they address the idea of Auston Matthews resigning before July and how much that hinges on the future GM. They are joined by former NHL President, GM and head coach Doug Maclean on who would be a good fit for the the Leafs. They wrap up the show with a look at the Dallas Stars forcing a Game 5 to keep the Conference Finals going and Sam Bennett's hit on Jaccob Slavin.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. And it's the Real Kipper and Bourne show coming off a well-deserved day off yesterday. Was it? I don't know. I'm just... We took it regardless. Probably not, but I'm saying it anyways. I like it.

I don't know if we even kept score in our golf game yesterday. Sammy, you did. I know that. Yeah, I always got the watch going there. The Golf Canada app, if I do say so myself. I know Sammy was one over in the front nine. He was. I was more than that on the back.

Did you keep score? I did. Yeah, I helped together pretty good. I finished well. You did? Yeah. front nine he was i was more than that on the back but did you keep score i did yeah i i helped together pretty good i finished well you did yeah i almost i finished better than i did in the front as well i think i ended up 80 80 okay yeah i was i think six plus six in the front and maybe plus three in the back nice what is that i think you're the same as sam i think he was 81 yeah right in that range too anyways pretty. Pretty good, fellas. Did we miss anything important yesterday, you think? No, I think we picked a great day.

You guys didn't hear that they hired Haley Wickenheiser? She's the GM of the Leafs now. Oh my God! No, it didn't happen, Kim. Oh, it didn't? I don't know. I thought it might have. You want some people skating off the road right now if they're in their cars? I know. Sorry. Joke. That was a joke. Full joke on that. you want some people skating off the road right now if they're in their cars i know sorry joke

that was a joke full joke on that just picked a random name out of a hat could have been sam all right you guys want to pick up on uh on that theme of finding a general manager for the toronto maple leafs and and just note that uh again a one-hour show we're on summer hours doug mcclain we're going to try to track him down apparently he's on vacation somewhere in the alps i don't know portugal no idea hiking we'll try to track him down because you have on this guy that he's willing to come on our show from vacation the man is on the camino trail in portugal he's literally not on this continent honest i don't believe that we can call it Off the Rails Friday without him.

Yeah. He's the force that drives it off the rails. He is. We're too professional. Okay. And he is... We're too professional. That's what everyone always says about me.

This show, too professional. You know what, Sam? You're a good guy, but you're just a little bit too professional. That's what I think has happened on Fridays. So that's why I go and I search for the guy who can completely put us in a ditch. That's right. So let's recap where we're at.

Okay. Shall we? Sure. As of right now, the Leafs don't have a GM San Frank Cervelli has tweeted um he said that I'd expect Toronto to interview at a minimum Jason Botterill Mark Bergevin Brad Tree Living and Peter Chiarelli of all the things we're going to talk about today that is one we're going to talk about your article on John Tavares there's some rumor about Dubas's agent you know and there being a conflict of interest yes with

other players having an agent at the same yes company agency uh chuck's in the final stars extended their series we're gonna get to all of it but that's the state of affairs right now jammed packed so out of the gate the biggest name out there of course brad tree living we believe that there was contact. We believe that there's ongoing discussions, probably through the weekend. We don't expect anything to happen, at the very least, with the Toronto Maple Leafs and a general manager job,

probably till mid-next week. Nah, no rush, right? Tons of time. You're damned if you do. You're damned if you don't. You go and name a guy today or tomorrow. People say you didn't take time. You haven't done your due diligence. You knee-jerk reaction.

Go get the... So they're going to have to... Brendan's going to have to go through half a dozen names. But you know what? In terms of hiring someone for this job, if you are interviewing for this job, the thing you have to do to be prepared for the interview is have answers to what you would do with their current situation so i don't think that not hiring

any of these guys yet means they're not thinking about it i bet you all of them are thinking about what would i do where i named gm and i'm gonna have to have these answers so i think those guys are probably preparing just in case i sure would be where i being interviewed but unfortunately my phone has not rung yet kipper's phone is ringing right now is it you yeah it is that is that shanny no not calling for me i know that guaranteed he might be calling for a different reason yeah guaranteed for someone now to come in it it would be strictly as a general manager. We mentioned some names that some might be interested in, like, you know, would Doug Armstrong,

who's coming off the world championship now, go back to his owner and say, hey, listen, I mean, what are the possibilities? Some mentioned George McPhee. some mentioned george mcphee uh jim nils surfaced up uh through uh uh through the media now uh do you think like anyone that would come in would have to find out for sure like if if this thing by chance gets worse and this time next year if the heat's on even replacing a brendan shanahan that these the people that they're interviewing now would want some reassurance that they're going to be around for two or three years or if there is more changes a year from now do they get thrown out

with the bath water i guess the only way you can be comfortable in that is just getting term like you just i need five years or whatever it is and reasonably i think to judge a gm anyway i think five years is pretty much a base timeline isn't it like or four anyway one thing that i think about is like brendan shanahan's got to be a little careful here because you don't actually want to uh hire a guy that could take your job in a year would that be the concern i don't know hiring your successor hiring your successor no i don't think that's right but if you went out and got a job but if you want if you went out and got doug armstrong that would be oh yeah that would be uh right a little bit because you could see being like i'm

just speaking if i was in brendan sh Shanahan's shoes and I'm like, okay, do I find someone who's absolutely locked at the GM role and you can never see him in as a president or, or anything moving up or, you know, do I, do I have no choice, but to go get the best guy,

regardless of how secure I feel in a year or two. I mean, it is stupid to not hire the best guy available right like i understand in terms of the power struggle and succession and keeping your role and all that but like you want to win stanley cups and that'll keep you hired and if you hired the best people that gives you the best chance all right to me you got to go with the best guy even if it is the guy you can take your job i will say that looking at the names that Frank put out there today, you know, Peter Chiarelli and Mark Bergevin and Jason,

like those names do send a little shiver down my spine. Like I don't, like, you know, I would prefer Kyle Dubas probably to those. We can look at all those names, including Brad Treeliving, and say, where's the success? Yeah. I mean, Shirely, they won the cup right under his tutelage. Long time ago.

Yeah, 2010. The only time the Bruins didn't choke in the playoffs was when he was the general manager. But, yeah. We're closing in on, like, 15 years ago. That's a long time. I don't even really, you know, I forgot that he even won it. That list of names to me is not exactly an inspiring one.

Yeah, and tree living of them may be the most appealing, but it's, yeah, I don't know. It's going to be a tough spot here. One thing we were talking about before we came on, I said to you, Kip, like, do you think that they would fire the coaching staff or a coach or whatever prior to making this hire and let the gm pick a guy you said it doesn't typically happen that way well i correct me if i'm wrong off air but you said

wouldn't it be better for sheldon to have more time to go find a new job if, in fact, they are going to get rid of him. Yeah. And I just said that that has never been the case since I've followed any of these type of stories as a broadcaster for over 20 years. That's the least of their concern is Sheldon finding another job. They'll make that decision when they need and have to, whether it's July or August. Yeah. He has term on his deal or august yeah he has term on his deal anyway right so they're like he's got another season to get paid at least another

i don't know if he has two but we know he's under contract yeah and typically you know teams do like it when you do find another job because it takes the money off of their payroll you can't you don't get paid by two places no no i remember talking to bill garren as a player and he was getting paid by three teams you can get paid by three teams as a player just not a coach yeah my understanding is that uh if if if a gm has term and it's big like babcock yeah if babcock was to have found a job then the lead then they'd have to negotiate the terms of him coming out of his contract right so let's say someone hires babcock for four million dollars to coach but he's owed 6.5 from the leafs maybe the leafs still pay him 2.5

correct yeah and i i don't even think you can do 50-50. Maybe it's more than that. Yeah. Right? Where the team has to pay probably 60% or 70%. If we take them off your hands, you know, we're willing to let them out of their contract if you eat 20%, 30%, 40%. I don't know where the cutoff is. It's tough to incentivize a coach like Babcock to come out of retirement if he's not going to make additional money to do it, right?

No, sometimes you just want the opportunity opportunity and if you have a year or two and you're guaranteed four more somewhere else I see you have them extend yeah yeah okay you've got you've got great incentive yeah to keep going so uh do we do we all believe that Kyle Dubas is heading towards Pittsburgh? Because I do. You do, do you? Yep. And I think he's going after the whole kit and caboodle. What, president as well? Yes. What?

Yeah, I do. I think he's, everything that I've watched and observed, this guy is a guy that wants it all. Do you think that behind the scenes, coming to the end of this deal, the Fenway Sports Group found a way to talk to him and said, this is what's going to be available to you at the end, or even more during the tumult they went to him,

and so he found the confidence to go back and say to the Leafs, I actually, you know, change of plans. I want $5.5 million, and I want autonomy, they went to him and so he found the confidence to go back and say to the leafs i actually you know change of plans i want five and a half million and i want autonomy because he knew we had that deal yeah i mentioned you guys a long time ago plan b i don't know for one second how you turn down 20 to 25 mil or whatever it was. Four million or four and a half million and then go back to them four days later and ask for an additional $6 million without a plan B.

So something came up that made him confident enough to be like, how far can I push this thing? Does anything else make any sense to you? No. For someone that would be in his position to just say yeah i will go home and watch jeopardy i can say this i once upon a time uh offered a job didn't really want it didn't really want it but liked the job didn't just didn't really want it and after discussing

money decided what would i do that for you know after working it through with my wife and whatever what would you know what would the number be and it's a ridiculous number but i went back and was like this is what it would be and they're like let's we're not doing that you know and i think i think that's kind of dubious here where you go you know if i'm going to be pushed around and kicked and have no autonomy. Maybe after some thought, make it worth my while and I'll stay. If not, I'm happy to say no. But his gap was a lot shorter than your gap. True, true.

That was a tight turnaround on that. An additional 6, 5, 4. And you are 37 years old. And I want to stress this. He's not Lou Lamorello, who's around 80. Right. He's got 30-plus years of prime time earnings. Yeah.

So how does $5, $6, $7, $8 million make a difference in your life when you are in this? I don't know. You know, for what should be a very long career. So, but by that logic, you should want to be with the team that gives you the best chance at winning, which is the thing that gives you the longest success. You can be Ken Holland if you've got cups.

You guys talked about Shirely when we're Holland's cups earlier than that by a year or two, actually. But when you win, you get to have longevity and get hired for five million dollars and so to do this it should be more about what team has a better chance to win and do the penguins have a better chance in the leafs no they don't so i don't know on that you know premise maybe he's missing the ball too are you guys uh, there's still a ton of stories coming out on, like, pro dubis in terms of, I read the other day, I think, Jonas Siegel. Jonas Siegel had an article out in The Athletic,

which I found very interesting. And, of course, you know, I get it. He's got a job to do. And there's a certain angle there for sure. But, like, he went in and talked to still employees at MLSC. And it's like the whole thing was like how everybody's still devastated. And, of course, when you speak of that, you're asking for people to be anonymous. Right.

Because jobs are on the line i get all of that but i think one of his lines that just kind of blew me away was like uh they're all in mourning well that wasn't one of his lines that was actually no no that's right one of the lines that i read that uh he quoted uh somebody anonymously that said uh we're all in mourning. I've got two thoughts on that. And I'm like, what a strong message. Yeah. Well, you know, hey, some people support people in sports. You know, all right, I'm a fan of this guy, I root for this guy, whatever.

Dubas had disciples. You know, like he had people that would follow him to the end and so hold on to that point the article to me is is capturing that tone from those people inside which is very real it was just you know the guy who hired me and gave me a chance is gone so i'm sad i get that but but people getting fired or traded let go sent to the minaved. Like, that's all part of the world that we live in in professional sports. Like, the most popular players in history have been traded. Yeah. Like, Mourning?

They thought it was forever? Mourning's death. Yeah. This is not death. This is just a guy leaving and like it's rippled through the you know the office and they're devastated they're confused like like can we not act like professionals here people it is a different go ahead sammy i don't hate that people are feeling a little bit uncomfortable no i agree I agree. This is not uncomfortable. This is devastation.

Yeah, but I don't know. I read that article too, and I don't want to throw anybody under the bus. No, we're not. We're just having a... All of us like Jonas, and I know a lot of people felt that that was... No, it's not Jonas.

He's just the messenger here. Exactly. We're talking about... I'm focusing on the actual people in there that are paid to do a job and are acting like their lives are over. I know. Like, you've got a job to do.

Why don't you focus on your job and a little bit less of what everybody else's personal issues are with their job? Yeah. I truly couldn't believe what I was reading. Thank you. Oh, yeah, no, it's relevant. I had it sent to me several times.

I was like, are you kidding me? How many, like, this is professional sports. You think he just has a job forever? What do you expect? Like, it's the number one hired and fired job maybe outside of ours. I would say. In the world. Go ahead.

Okay. No, you go ahead. I think this leads to a bigger conversation about what Kyle Dubas is to people. And he's not just a GM. He's like a proxy for so many things. So many people, old hockey guys, you know, talk about him, oh, there's a pencil-pushing nerd, whatever. And then you got all the young people who, you know, or the analytics people who think he's, you know, Jesus Christ.

But he hired them. I understand, yeah. So are they often in their first roles? Is this article a reflection of how insecure you are with your job? I think there's a lot of insecurity shown from a lot of people who talk about Kyle Dubas. That's 100% it. Everyone, it's like reflected in him in some way. He's some...

I don't feel like people ever just talk about him, the guy. It's always Kyle Dubas, the glasses. The other thing too is like this feeling like they've just lost Theo Epstein. Right. That's also very true. But a lot of people say, so Epstein, I think, was hired at 37 by the Red Sox and hadn't held the job of that magnitude before and eventually won. Dubas is about to be hired at 37.

I've seen people say he's ahead of where Epstein was this time. But that's your right people are afraid they're losing epstein here okay last time i checked two world championships with two different right long suffering organizations he won yeah we're talking about a guy from 37 on one one round in five years yeah and one game in the second round he is not theo epstein he may be one day but he ain't leaving today that's like he's theo epstein no no you're right you're right the the track record is not there to be this shook about it but i this is the the since we've been covering the leafs you can be on a street corner right now and lean over to the person waiting for the light to change.

You can cross the street and talk to them about this, and they have an opinion. I was at Centennial last night after I played golf with you guys. I went and played with my wife. You are strange. Well, I went and played with my wife. She wanted to play golf, and I went went and did and we had a blast but the at the starters hut there was a group of at maybe seven or eight people men women legitimately screaming at each other about the lace like top of their lungs being like man they gotta get rid of martin knee landers gotta go keith's no good they should not i'm

just like oh my god it's a fever pitch i dropped my kid off at school today, and there's three teachers going into it about, you know, why Dubas left and what they got to do now. It doesn't happen like that during the playoffs here. You know, the talk about hockey. This has been. It's a fever. It's insane. It's a runaway fever.

It is. I got a fever. The only solution is to win more hockey games yeah um i'm nicole thoughts on the nhlpa now reviewing kyle dubas's relationship uh apparently the agent that he had hired was part of the wasserman group which also represents austin mat. A lot of different agents have called the NHLPA and said conflict of interest. Yeah. So the technicality here is that by the book,

if you have a certified agent with the NHLPA, you cannot use that agent if you have players at the same agency. Now, Dubas' agent isn't certified with the nhlpa he's a golf guy um doesn't have a ton of hockey clients i don't know how technically he's not a member of the nhlpa right dubas yeah but dubas gm's front office personnel can't have a certified agent his agent isn't certified so technically he's okay but there's an article you know frank cerebelli wrote about it and he he's one of the gms he quotes says but it's understood that that's why we have the rule you can't have an agent at the same agency so like yeah for me personally i think it's uh uh yeah it's it crossed the line yeah yeah i i mean he's had this agent for how

long i assume it's always been a thing. They're all under one roof, are they not? And so the concern is that. Can the golf division come over to the hockey division and say, this is what I'm hearing or this is what I heard or. So the concern there, and I'm asking you, not telling you. Yeah. The concern is that if you have an agent at Wasserman or a client who is,

he's your guy, he represents you. The concern is that he could get other players at Wasserman to take client who is he's your guy who represents you the concern is that he could get other players at Wasserman to take less under the salary cap to help you out that clearly was not the case with anyone do was negotiated with we got Doug oh okay for all you off the rail Friday fanatics uh we did track Doug McClain. And to be fair, he has told me where he is, but I didn't pay attention enough to remember it. So I'm going to ask you right now, where are you? Well, as you know, I've always been a world traveler.

And you know I'm a very avid hiker. You know that, yes I'm in I'm in Portugal and tonight we're actually for the next couple nights we're in the Durrell Valley which is the greatest wine area one of the greatest wine areas in the world and without a doubt just a spectacular place we're at a we're at a spa resort here in the dural valley i'm just overlooking the river here now and the vineyards and i'm getting ready to go down to dinner and we've hiked all day and just had a wonderful day my knees are a little sore my back's a little sore but other than that i'm ready to go i'm ready to go i mean i'm like uh i'm like dallas i'm a little old i'm a little slow i'm a little sore. But other than that, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. I mean, I'm like Dallas.

I'm a little old. I'm a little slow. I'm a little hurting, but I'm ready to go. So let me ask you, just prior to you coming on air, we were talking about the Kyle Dubas, Brendan Shanahan, Leafs scenario hitting feverish levels here in Toronto. It's got to be the same in Portugal. When you go to that cafe on the corner, they got to be talking dubious leafs.

No? No. No, what's happening? I came out on the first day in the hike, and a guy comes, slides up next to me, big guy from obviously Montreal. He said, hey, I won't say anything, but I know who you are. I said, oh, I won't say anything, but I know who you are.

I said, oh, well, okay. Like, who the hell am I? Oh, no, I know you. And then another guy the next day on the hike slid up to me and he said, I looked you up last night. I looked you up last night on the Internet, and I know who you are. Anyway, Dubas, poor Dubas. The problem is he had to deal with the agents to pay them more, not less.

So that's the problem. You know, the Leafs are the ones that got screwed here because his deal with the agents, I'll give you the most you'd ever possibly want on this deal. And, you know, so that's, I think, can you be punished for that? I don't know. Well, we're going to find out. Much drama about that.

I'm going to tell you something. Listen, I just read the leaked candidates. Botterill, Bergevin. Listen, correct me if I'm wrong here. When you make a big GM move like Shanahan moved, I don't see how big it is.

I like Kyle. I know he's a good guy. Seriously. It's not like he's, I mean, he's not, I mean, he's not, I don't know who, but he's not the greatest GM in the history of the game. But now that you get rid of a popular guy, you can't settle for the names I'm listening to. You've got to make a splash.

You've got to pull a Shanahan deal and go to an existing team. You look at the top three GMs in the game, or four or five, and you go and you try to get permission to pry a top guy away. You do not settle for a secondhand GM type guy. I'm sorry. So he better make a splash here. He better make a splash. I heard Doug Armstrong's name.

It's not like the Leafs can offer compensation to get Doug Armstrong out of a deal can they anymore I don't know but you gotta find out cross every dot every I and cross every T because you can't go with some of the names I'm hearing about I'm sorry or he's gonna get fried

he's gotta figure this out and say okay I, I'm going to like he did with Babcock. Oh, yeah. Whether you like Babcock or not. It was a big splash. What do you say, Joe? Does Jill want to weigh in on this?

She's meeting the friends for drinks and I'm screwing that up by being honest. Jill, do you mind if I just stay on another minute with these guys? I mean, they're looking for ratings. Anyway, so, no, Kip, do you agree with me? He's got to make a splash here like he did. I get it strong. Maybe a little Lamorello-type splash.

He's got to do something here to pry somebody away from a team however he does it am i asking a question is doug going to have cabs off in portugal are we going to get you slapped in the back of your head soon or are you okay no you know as you know jill's a big fan of the show whatever whatever you know whatever you guys want you know your thought on the idea of taking a gm job then immediately trading a superstar whether it's marner matthews or whoever it is like is it possible could you you know can you imagine what that would entail because i certainly can't having not been and that's in those offices? Look, not that it's the same thing, but I was in Detroit, and there was umpteen offers coming in for Federoff to leave Detroit.

When Brian Murray was the GM, I was assistant GM and associate coach there. I mean, those are pretty big names, okay, especially Iserman in that day and Federer, okay? You've got to hire the best GM possible, however which way you do it, by prying somebody away is what I'm suggesting, and you then let that guy make the call on who he moves. Does he move a Matthews? Does he move a Mariner?

Does he move a Nylander? Who does he move? That's up to the new hockey guy, not Brendan, in my opinion. Brendan's a good day. Brendan's a good hockey guy. We all know that. He's very supposed to be. He's head of history.

But listen, he's got to hire the most competent person he can hire, and then that's got to be the guy's number one job who does he move how do you figure out kippy you made a great point the other day on the show how do you figure out taveras maybe that's all you have to do maybe that's all you have to do if you can figure that out but i i just think it starts with hiring the best gm and please i i i respect all the names i've heard but give me a break they're not gms of the toronto maple leafs unless i'm drinking too much red wine in the duro valley sorry oh we know that's going to happen real soon here uh all right we're going to let you go because we don't want jill to be too upset there's no uh the greatest

the greatest thing about portugal the Drouro Valley, somebody told me there's no sulfites in the wine, which means you don't get a headache. Uh-oh, that's nothing but trouble for you. Hey, how come when we talked to you in Florida, it sounds like, you know, we've got two cans with a string tied between them, and in Portugal, you're crystal clear. This is studio quality here. Well, I sort of asked the hotel to ramp it up a little because I got to,

and it's like my friends here that I'm with, that I'm traveling with. They know your guys show really big. And I was telling him, look, I'm going to be delayed for drinks before dinner tonight because I have another opportunity to go on the real Kipper and Bourne show. And,

you know, and, and they said, Oh no, no, no, we'll wait as long. You know, that's a big opportunity. So, I'm serious. You guys with my hikers here, with this prestigious hiking group I'm with, you guys are big. And I didn't realize it. You know, I didn't realize it. Listen, if there's any potential Portugal general managers out there, bring one back here.

I'm serious. This is a big, big decision. This is a big call. Brendan. Get Doug back. All right. You interested? Should we put your name on the board

with Botterill and Bergevin? Put me on the board with those guys. That's for damn sure. Okay. All right, go have a good time. Stay well. Stay safe. Thanks for joining us.

Carmen Sandiego. Yeah. Hey, guys, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Enjoy your next hike. And just not your shorts, okay? All right. Doug McClain. next hike and just not your shorts okay all right doug mcclain where in the world is doug god he's so right what's that what he just said there about the splash he's so right see that's

what you're that's what you were feeling at the top of the show what do you do go get hey can we have julian breeze blog tampa bay he's right about that all you're gonna do is jack the price up for at the top of the show. Yeah, what do you do? Hey, can we have Julian Breezebois, Tampa Bay? He's right about that. All you're going to do is jack the price up for GM salaries in other cities. That's all you're going to do, which is fine. That's what I'm saying. I think true living is fine. I've said that before, but those other names,

it scares me. I'm going to tell you guys something. My feelings on Matthews that don't get caught up in the no move kicking in July 1st. I think in many ways it's irrelevant. What? Like if he won't sign. Yeah, if he won't sign, if he won't sign, you got to know why. Right?

Right. It's got to be crystal clear to Brendan Shanahan that why you won't sign, you got to know why. Right? It's got to be crystal clear to Brendan Shanahan that why you won't sign. So there could be three reasons. Money, term, or you don't like the direction that they're going in. Or the market. Whatever the case is, you don't want to be here. If you don't want to be here, If you don't want to be here, then we're going to work together to get you out

because the last thing, Austin, you want is to think that you're going to play out your option year here and then quietly disappear because this market will eat you up and chew you out every day you are here he doesn't want that the Leafs don't want that he's going to want to work with you to get a trade done because every day he's here past July 1st no one will trust him but i see your point and i think it has merit that you could still conceivably move him even with a no trade clause i think you're it would great you limit it would greatly limit you because he would say i will facilitate it if you trade me too but you're

limited you're limited anyways how many teams out there today could trade for Austin Matthews as is 11-6? 31. 31 teams would move bodies to make room. Not unless, JB, you've got reassurances that he will sign with you after his deal is done. Which means he's going to have to pick the team, which gives the other team leverage. But now you're back to limited. There's no 31 other teams anymore because we know he won't sign in...

Columbus. Edmonton, Columbus, Vancouver. We know that's not happening. So you are going to be in a position after July 1st to say, hey, listen, would you sign here, here, and here? Because those are the only teams that are interested in doing a real trade, and you're down to a handful anyways. The best thing you have in your pocket is, John Tavares,

to go talk to Austin and be like, Austin, I had a nine-year career with the Islanders. I was the captain. I won a playoff round with an OT winner, if you'll believe it or not, and they hate my guts. And I'm scared to go back there. They hate me. Every time we go in there, I get the heebie-jeebies.

Instead of retiring my jersey or celebrating me, I can't go in the state. You know, like, it's so, you do have that. Where is Austin there? And if Austin, deep down, if Austin did want to leave here, it's going to be ugly for him too down the road. Yes, it definitely would. As a guy that could have had an amazing career and bailed. But I just, I knew it would come to this.

I know no one is getting traded by July 1st. No one is getting traded now. It maybe would have happened if Dubas was still here, but the new guy's going to come in and I want to assess. The new guy's going to come in and he has to smoke out

Austin Matthews. And he's got to look him in the eye and Austin's got to look right back in and say, forget the noise. everything do you want to be a toronto maple leaf and they'll say if the price is right and i think and that's part of the smoking out yeah okay we did just talk about saying i'll stay for a price. You know? Is that, do you believe that that's all it's going to be down to for Austin Matthews? If the Leafs hit his price, he stays?

No. Because I think there's way more to that. For sure. Way more to that. How much do you really like it here? Do you see yourself living here for eight years? Are you comfortable with the scrutiny and the media and going to buy groceries and having to sign autographs,

take pictures, or actually here? Get the power play going, for God's sakes. Hey, Reg, work on the power play. Right? Yeah. That's a yes or no. Are you okay with that? Do you want to be here?

And the word, my intentions, is that just a little bit of a door cracked open for him? It's my intentions to be here. Did he say that? Yeah. Sammy, was that the term? Yeah, I think. My intentions, yeah, that does he say that? Yeah. Sammy, was that the term? Yeah, I think. My intentions, yeah, that does void everything that comes after.

I think he's probably just going to sign a massive contract on July 1st. Did Kyle give him a legitimate out to ease? Possibly delaying? Oh, yeah. This is the thing. This is all going to get kicked down the road now. Because that's the feeling now. It's like, hold on.

Kyle's gone. The vision's gone. But if he, like we've talked about whatever day that was, if he is not signing a massive contract extension to be the centerpiece of the marquee franchise of the NHL because he's, it's a different general manager okay bye-bye now we're talking about trades because you're clearly not right for this market I I'm a believer that Sammy just summed it up beautifully it's that simple

you want the you want like I mean he was given his cake and eat it too on the last contract right like he's been given everything in this market in terms of love by the crushing cake live lit he got he got the short contract he got the big aav he's given every sponsorship opportunity he's been given you know love upon love from the you know adorning fans and even when they crashed out people didn't pile on him as much as they should have probably in years past. And this is an opportunity coming up here to prove that you want to stay here and you want to be the centerpiece for the biggest franchise in the NHL. Like I said, and if you're like, I don't know what my buddy do, but I'm here all day. I guess Wasserman is gone.

It's like, OK, man, like what it'sis. I'm here all day, I guess. Wasserman is gone. It's like, okay, man. For what it's worth, he came out in Leafs gear. He said, I want to be here, and that's all he said since. Prove it. Yeah. Prove it July 1st and signed a massive contract and stay with the Leafs. And this guy represents a mass in Leaf Nation. Every day past July 1st, Yeah. They trust him less and less.

I know, but it's May 26th, and I feel like I hear him trusting him less and less. Let's get to July 1st and figure that out. But the new GM also doesn't have until July 1st. You got to talk to him prior to that, obviously. Yeah. Yeah, I do. But like I said, past july 1st you also got to say this is your risks moving forward is that if you think that you're gonna uh just pull a tavaris or

a johnny goudreau and and throw out some token lines to get you to free agency to just walk out that door leaf nation's gonna yeah they're gonna they're gonna destroy you can't do it i still people i don't think he's got the stomach to stick around yeah and and deal with that all year kipper there's still people as you know in this city that hold a grunge against matt sundin for doing that you got two choices though matt sundin's the greatest player in the history of the franchise maybe and he wouldn't waive his no trade deadline his no trade clause when the leafs were fighting for a playoff spot he was in the final year there's all the rumors about them being able to get Jeff Carter and a first round pick for him

and he wouldn't waive he didn't waive they felt they fell a point shy of making the playoffs that year and then he didn't sign until midway through the next year with Vancouver, and he was killed for it. Killed for it. And there's still people that hold a grudge against him. I am of the mind that you have to have him say to you in June, he's going to sign July 1st and then do it, or he says he's not sure and you have to trade him. Yeah.

And this is where Brad Treeliving got ahead of it in Calgary. Someone's got to make a decision with the new ownership. This is where Brad got ahead of it in Calgary. Yes. got to make a decision with the new ownership. This is where Brad got ahead of it in Calgary. Yes. Forget about what happened in the trade. Because Kachuk was fair to him, as Matthew should be here. And that's the new standard for Austin. Yeah.

Matthew Kachuk set your new standard. The old standard where Johnny Gaudreau and John Tavares got to fake it until they made it, you don't get that. You don't get that option. Yeah. Okay. Matthew Kachuk said it for you. For sure. Okay.

Sammy, we're going to take a break. Yeah, for sure. I think that was a somewhat reasonable conversation that we had there, which is surprising. All right. You're going to come after the break with some playoff picks. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. You're watching and listening

to the real kipper and bourne show covering the blue jays from an analytical perspective jay's talk plus with blake murphy be sure to subscribe and download jay's talk on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. What do you got for us, Sammy? Well, before we get to playoff picks, I thought we should maybe talk about the hockey for five minutes. Sure.

I know we should talk about Matt Kachok and his heroics, but has anyone ever been hit harder than Jacob Slavin? Got hit by Sam Bennett? His lungs have not reinflated since that hit. That, I was watching that. That got me out of my seat. It's rare that anything in a Florida Panthers hockey game gets me out of my seat. That's just real hockey. That's a guy that wants to win a Stanley Cup.

Slavin flew through the air backwards. He just, he fumbled the puck a little bit. That's how you get killed. It was just enough for, but. No regard for human life, I believe is what Borny said in our group chat. I just think that the one thing that, I don't care what area you are, you're supposed to know who's on the ice and what they're capable of doing.

And even if you fumbled the puck, I would hope that Slavin would have known that Sam Bennett's around somewhere. Right? As Colby likes to say, check the game notes, pal. Yeah. So, like, he, and you're right the way he fumbled the puck he just had to look down at it for one second it was like almost i've i've played with guys where i just know that if that guy's on the ice you are neutered yeah you're

done you're done i can see it you scared. You won't go near him. You won't go in his corner. You won't go in front of the net. And I get it. It's a safety issue. I know I can't win with you. But, hey, the good news is you'll be safe. What would happen if there's a loose puck in the neutral zone

and Sam Bennett and Jacob Truba are going full speed in a race for it who dies i don't know maybe i just uh true was just so much bigger maybe the arena just implodes in on himself into a black hole what's different now than a hit like that 30 or 40 years ago is that there's there's there's more guys who try to throw them no there's just more people so sympathetic to a guy being hurt or brain injuries and i get all of that i get all of that but that's what the game is still about well and the playoffs are a reminder to change that people want to change that for the safety issue and i'm not here to debate that or saying it's wrong or it shouldn't be that way i'm just telling you people like sammy will pay big bucks to go see that hit i saw something the other

day that like you know adam silver thought that the basketball in the 90s was too physical it got less physical but they try to keep an element of that hockey has got less physical but it doesn't translate as well our sport needs that element it's a more physical game and it doesn't translate as well. Our sport needs that element. It's a more physical game, and it's better with it in it. The breathtaking skill with the looming threat of violence is what makes hockey brilliant. It's all the more impressive to hang in there for a dangle when you can get your head legally knocked off. Yes, when you can do what Bennett did.

It's that juxtaposition that's so cool and rare. I know. And there's Sam Bennett's, Jacob Truba's. There's not that many of them out there anymore. No. You know what's kind of fun? It's fun that the Leafs have one of them. Like, over the next two years of his contract,

Jake McCabe will throw five hits that we talk about for half an hour. For sure. So, yeah. And Matthew Kachuk, three game winners in a four game sweep. He's unbelievable. Unbelievable. And I cannot believe the level he's hit. Never thought he had it in him.

He's still not the conspire winner up until this point. Bobrovsky? Yes. I mean, it is. He's not even in those games, though, Bob. Yep. Bob had a 970 in that round. 971.

971. 971. That's stupid. That's a stupid number. Yeah, like the goals he's scoring are irrelevant without the goaltender. All right. It's time to get to playoff picks here. It's time for playoff picks presented by Bet365.

Visit the app for the latest odds and our friends at bet 365 have now posted a special bet here who will be named the next general manager of the toronto maple east oh boy and the overwhelming favorite prohibitive favorite if you will is brad for living at minus 140 140. I'd bet that. The next closest is Eric Tulsky at plus 350. No. Brandon Pridham, so 10 to 1. Mark Hunter, 12 to 1. Stan Bowman, 12 to 1.

Mark Bergevin, 12 to 1. I can keep going here. Mike Gillis, 14 to 1. Doug Armstrong, 16 to 1. Maybe a little value there if he comes home for his dream job. Lawrence Gilman, Peter Shirely, Jim Benning, Jason Botterill, Michael Feuda, Ray Whitney, Ron Hextel, plus 40-1. Ryan Burke, 60-1, and Doug Gilmore, 80-1. So there you go.

Doug McClain? No, he's not on there. I'm going to ask them to put him on there for 100-1 with a glass of wine in his hand right now. We only got a few minutes here. Let's go down the path of mark hunter because that one interests me a lot why you want to do this to your boy is there any world you see where brendan shanahan pick us picks up the phone talks to mark hunter and say yeah that decision five years ago, not a great one.

Not a chance. You talk about worrying about your own job. Is there a bigger self-indictment than that? There's no way he can pick up the phone and call Mark Hunter. He can't do it. Not after all these years. Even if he thinks it's the best choice, he can't. And you're going to lose the Owen Sound faction of Leafs Nation if you hire Mark Hunter as the general manager.

You can't have the Hunters involved for Owen Sound. No, Mark Hunter can come in here, win a Stanley Cup, and you'll still hate him because of your connections to Owen Sound. Kipper, that would be a very complicated day for your boy. Let's just say that. Listen, Sam, life's complicated. As you get older, it only gets worse. Not a big fan of the Hunters.

We can all digress on that one. And I just wanted to quickly, because you mentioned Conn Smythe, so I'll put this in here. Bobrovsky is still the favorite, which you're right, plus 200. Matthew Kachuk, plus 325. But I actually thought at plus 400 here, Jack Eichel, that's a pretty good value for Jack Eichel. Because if the Vegas Golden Knights get through Dallas,

if they win that series, which they're probably going to here, and they win the cup, Jack Eichel is definitely the cons my favorite really good last night oh i think jennifer botterill last night showed a couple of line rushes when it was like a hot knife through butter oh so slick they said galley said the number on the broadcast last night but the number they're out scoring out like it's like yeah he's he's plus 10 to 5 on 5 i think it's like 15 5 or 16 5 they're killing the competition when he's on the ice he's living up to his hype here by sport logic like offense generating plays he's the top guy left at 5 on 5 so that's an interesting one i like march or so there though you got a number for him i do have a quick march he's got eight goals he's clutch he's you know a little greasier a bit of a narrative with him being there since the start.

Yeah. Good number two, 12 to one. Tempting. So there you go. That was playoff picks presented by Bet365. Visit the app for all the latest odds, fellas. So what are we supposed to do tonight? No hockey?

I hate when you get to these nights of the year and there's no hockey. Did you watch last night, I think, Emily Kaplan after the Dallas win had Joe Pavelski on the bench, eh? And she's like, you guys must be feeling really good right now. And he had this look on his face like, we're down 3-0. Okay, it's just one game. You want to know the odds of us coming back? We're just going to go home and eat,

and we're going to pray for another win. That's it. Didn't he mention something about not having many of these moments left? I saw something like him scoring that goal. It's like, even if you're still three, you know what feels really good? Scoring a playoff overtime winner, regardless of where you're at in the series. You're not going to have that many moments left.

But they got a little bit of that Leaf feeling when it's like you won the game to hang on, but this is going to be really hard. He was a part of blowing the 3-0 lead with San Jose? He was. To Vegas? No, to LA. And it doesn't seem like

Ottinger can hit Bobrovsky levels to carry this thing right now. I don't know. Bobrovsky levels to carry this thing right now. I don't know. Bobrovsky levels. What are we doing? Really hard. Like, he's going to have to flip a switch like we've never seen before

for Dallas to even make this a series. He's a good goalie. You never know. Okay. Our thanks to Doug McClain all the way from Portugal. I don't know. Guys, one hour is just not enough with you guys. Let's go golf again. Let's go golf again.

Let's go golf again. Alright, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Hit a rating and review if you get a chance or a like button for us.