Real Kyper & Bourne - Goalie Roles with Steve Valiquette

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

MSG analyst & Clear Sight Analytics CEO Steve Valiquette joins Nick Kypreos and Gord Stellick for his weekly appearance (1:04). He digs into the right time for a coach to pull a struggling goalie, relationships between starting and backup goalies, Kevin Lankinen's play in Vancouver, Dustin  Wolf's speed and the easiest and hardest teams to play goalie for. Then, Nick and Gord regroup with Sam McKee to discuss Lankinen's emergence and reflect on Monday's Hockey Hall of Fame induction ceremony.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

let's welcome everybody in to our national hour the real kipper and born show we are live on sports at 650 in vancouver sports at 960 Calgary. This hour of real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. In for the on assignment, Justin Bourne. Let's welcome in Gord Stelic. Kipper. Where's the applause? Sammy.

Derek. Oh, thank you, Sammy. Thank you. And that was Sammy clapping. My mic wasn't even on. There you go. There you go. Gordo was Sammy clapping. My mic wasn't even on. There you go. There you go. Gordo, thanks for joining us today.

Really appreciate it. We had a terrific hour on the Leaf edition. As we go national, you're in for a treat because it's Tuesday, which means Steve Ellicott. I know. I watch and listen pretty well most Tuesdays. We go deep. And most days, period. Deep into the Valley right now with New York Ranger.

The only day you listen is Tuesday. MSG. And very well dressed. I like the tie today. For those of you watching on one of our Sportsnet platforms, Steve Vallecat. What's up, buddy? You know, boys, I'm telling you right now, the money I've spent since I started working with Henrik Lundqvist is ridiculous.

Okay? It's been so expensive just to try and sit next to him. Do you know who Richard Steele is? He's an ex-boxing referee who, like, would encourage people to throw in the towel. Right? So I'm telling you, I'm telling you, you got to be like Richard Steele and throw the towel in. Call for the towel because you'll never win that fight, Valley, against King Henry. It's killing me.

And I don't even tell my wife how much I spend either. Well, listen, appreciate you joining us. We got a good list of a look around the National Hockey League Hall of Fame weekend. I'm with Mike Keenan. You're pointing at me. I know. Okay. But you were there.

Okay, I know, I know, but I'm not Mike Keenan anyway. One of the best moments I remember during my year with Keenan was the time that he pulled Mike Richter because he thought he sucked. So he put in Glenn Healy. Glenn Healy went in for about 13, 14 minutes.

Gave up, I think, two. Pulled him back out. Put in Richter again. I'm like, I'm not suggesting for one second that Keenan had a great feel on when to pull a goalie, but I'm just wondering now as I watch throughout the early parts of the season, do coaches still know when to pull a goalie or what their purpose is when they pull one?

Because sometimes I'm wondering, this guy just gave up four goals and 16 shots. Why is he still in the net? Right. You know what it is too, Kipper. There's a lot of communication before the season begins with the coach about what the season's going to look like, what his expectations are. I'll give you a little bit of insight into a meeting I had with John Tortorella before my fourth year with the Rangers backing up Henrik. Brought me in his office and he said, Valley, sit down. All right, here's how it's going to go this year. You're the backup. I need you to know your role. By the way, I didn't need

to be reminded of that. I'm playing 12 to 15 starts a year. And he says, you need you to know your role. By the way, I didn't need to be reminded of that. I just have to look at stats. I'm playing 12 to 15 starts a year. And he says, you're going to be playing the games. We don't think we can win this year. And if it's not going well, you're not coming out. That was the end of the meeting. And I walked out of the room. And I was like, you know what? That was debilitating to me because now I'm looking at the schedule and I'm like, okay,

third game of four nights in Pittsburgh. I'm playing that you know I could see it I could I could count you tell you when my starts are going to come when I watch the game right now I'm looking through a different lens because it's all about trying to capture the win are there nights where your goalie should come out because the other guy would give you a better chance to win. It depends on the goals that he allows. If your goalie allows on the very first goal of the game that he allows, if it's a low danger one, you will lose 86% of the time. That was the statistic last year. This year, with the way things have gone in the NHL, it's a little bit lower.

It's 74% of the time. But it doesn't change if he allows two, if he allows two, he should be wearing a hat to start the next period because you will absolutely lose. You lose 94% of the time. Wow. So what I'm saying is I'm watching Shisterkin Thursday against Buffalo. It was a six,1 blowout game but the first goal if you watch it it was doline and he fanned on it it went five this is minutes before hearing on the bridge that possibly he had signed his big deal at 11 and a half now it didn't never happen but you can imagine there's i don't know if he got wind of it or not but i was wondering at that time if it was a distraction lo and behold the second goal of the game it's low danger the third one's low danger guys it never gets better from

that point and i think this is a message for youth hockey coaches through junior and college minor pro if your goalie has clear view on a shot and it's from 20 feet or further out and he gets beat on it just have your antenna up because if anything looks a little dicey in the next few sequences at the net, get him out of there. It's a bad night because he's just having an off night. So, you know, Steve, what I go about when you talked about Tortorella telling you the rule, even though it was kind of tough love. And, you know, once I remember asking two favorite guys,

a guy in broadcasting of ours, John Garrett, you know, Cheech, right? And I asked him the question about was there ever a situation where you didn't have a good relation with the other goalie? Like something was, and I was surprised that he offered an answer and he mentioned Greg Millen, who's a media colleague. But he said it's because our roles weren't defined. So it wasn't a healthy situation then, back then. And I'm curious, does that happen still now

or are, are people told like you were so, so there are no ifs and buts during the course of a season? Okay. Well, if you remember when Shostakhin came here from the American hockey league five years ago, he started nine and one. Henrik took a backseat. Georgiev took a backseat. And it was really hard on Georgiev because he thought he was going to be the next guy in line. I can't imagine. And from what I've heard, that whole scene didn't go well, having three guys at that time. That's not very typical. Shosturkin just broke the door down. He played so well in Hartford back then, Gord. You couldn't even keep him there.

He had to come up. And the team was rebuilding, and Henrik was maybe or maybe not staying a little longer term. Oftentimes, the role is defined because if it is not, you guys have been around the teams long enough. If you don't know your role, it causes problems. There's a subplot around every corner in the locker room and everyone's always talking and it's just the way it is everybody has to know their role i i had this conversation earlier in the season with a head coach in the nhl about the spirit of a hockey team and what it looks like and when i watch connor hellbuck go down and fist pump after winning his game the other night to set an NHL record,

and you see the way that Winnipeg's playing right now, they play with a lot of spirit. And Carolina Hurricanes play with a lot of spirit right now. And Vegas, I've watched them a few times recently. I feel like they have a spirit. And Minnesota has a lot of spirit. Right now, the Rangers do not have a lot of spirit. Right now, the Rangers do not have a lot of spirit. And there's been some distractions in the offseason, and maybe a few roles haven't been clearly defined. But you see it.

And, you know, Gord, I'd spoken to you earlier this morning, and I brought it up that I heard you a few weeks ago talking about the Leafs. And where we are in New York right now with the Rangers is exactly where I feel you were with your opinion on the Toronto Maple Leafs a few weeks ago. We're talking to Steve Allicat, analyst with the Rangers, MSG, and CEO of ClearSight Analytics. So, Valley, where are we in terms of style of play today? And you just mentioned the Leafs. So what we perceived the last few years of being an East-West kind of team has now turned into a Craig Bruby,

North-South, straight lines, get it in deep, pucks to the net, blah, blah, blah. But what do we know about East-West versus North-South? I think the most important thing to know about east-to-west is how you defend it. It's more important than the offense. It's how you defend it because the one thing I can tell you right now, if you look at the bottom 10 teams in the NHL

out defending against that pass, which does account for more goals than any other goal, the low east-to-west, the low pass below the hash marks. Scene passes, right? Yeah, the scene pass. It goes in more than any other goal. And more than twice the next closest shot type. So this is something that we do every day within our company because we're looking at trends.

And the trend on the east to west game offensively is 40% more chances than five years ago, right now in the NHLl so the league's certainly gone east to west the current goalies that i speak to that have been in the league five or more years they feel it they see it every night i was watching guys colorado um carolina the other night and in the first pass of the of the puck it was seconds into the game. The first play down the ice was low east to west. That one we just talked about. Under the hash, across the seam.

Georgiev's got to make a split save. It's got to be a spectacular save. But it doesn't stop. And Carolina, they had five of those in this game. And that was not Carolina before. Carolina, for a long time, has been a trendy pick amongst NHL fans and media to say they're going to win. And now I feel they are set to win because of the way that they are controlling their offense.

The way their offense used to work was volume shooting. And Henrik and I, we worked together and we talked about it all the time, the amount of good games, great games that he played for the Rangers against Carolina because it was easy to play against them. They'd warm you up all night, and then when you'd face a difficult one, you'd be warm for it. And Shusterkin, the same thing.

Every time Shusterkin played against Carolina over the last few years, look at his numbers. He's had 48 save nights. He's had 52 save nights. I feel like a really good goalie, like the one that Carolina has been up against in the playoffs in the past four or five years where they could have had a little more success.

They've gotten stymied because they're keeping the guy warm through the playoff series where they are right now. They're a different, they're on a different level. And the way I think hockey is being played right now, I'm just going to carry on because I pulled a bunch of stuff here to share on the show, which is safe percentage is at a 30 year low low. Shots on goal are at a 20-year low, so teams are

shooting less. I already mentioned the east to west being up 40% over the last five years. The perimeter shots, the clear-sighted perimeter shots, they're down 34%, so teams are taking fewer bad shots. And then the clear-sighted shots from just outside and inside the slot area combined are down 30%. Because when you watch Edmonton play right now, fellas, they're really good at having their stars like Leon and Connor getting inside and then dishing. And it's not always a shot on goal anymore. And they had three goals that I loved against Vancouver. They had one that was a pass off a rebound right net front. They had one that was off a turnover where you can see everyone just separate and get

on both sides of the ice and be available for east to west. And then Corey Perry pumped it in. And then the last one was a dry sidle net drive where he carries everybody across the ice and kicks the puck on a weak side rebound. And I'm looking at those three goals, guys, and I'm like, what could possibly Lankanen have done there? You know, he gives up seven on the night, but I don't know if at least four or five of them

were almost impossible to stop. Because I think shot quality has taken hockey to a whole new level now. It looks like a different game to me. So, you know, I'm wondering, like, you know, Pittsburgh's one situation. I mean, they have three goaltenders. You just need one to start stopping the puck.

And last year we saw Tampa could stay the course with Vasilevsky injured, got by. In Vancouver's case, he just brought it up. But, I mean, are you saying, like, all of a sudden, you know, no Thatcher Demko and, you know, and Charlie Leningrad's a great example in Washington. They could stay the course because he was a pleasant surprise. So, how do you gauge that Lankan, and you know and Charlie Lindgren's a great example in Washington they could stay the course because he was a pleasant surprise so how do you gauge the Lankan and you know what you're okay versus you're playing with fire as far as the Vancouver Canucks riding it with Thatcher Denko's

injury Thatcher has been so important to them over the last five years he's been their most important player I would argue because I know you could say Petey and JT Miller, et cetera. You could say Quinn, but I think that he's been the stabilizer back there. And with him out, you can get a run from Lankanen, but he needs support. And it's almost like unfair for a lot of the goalies in the NHL right now to be put into positions that they're just not ready for. And Skinner's the same thing in Edmonton. And I bring this up a lot, guys. I mean, there's probably a dozen goalies in the NHL that just didn't spend enough time in the minors. They didn't get their 200 games so that they haven't been able to come in and have an easier transition into the NHL game for a consistent long run. And that's just the

difference there. Lankanen, his shot quality that night, forget about i mean it could have been 10 so i think the goalies are facing a lot and not all are all the way prepared it's it's just the the system that we're in right now too you know with where everybody is and everybody that's retired the one thing that helped a lot of goalies get an extra year in the minors was that 0405 lockout look at how many goalies played an extra year in the in the minor leagues there that had really long careers off of that as a springboard? Last night, pretty good effort from Justin Wolfe in Calgary. And is he one of those guys that you're talking about that got to just cook a little bit more in the minors?

Yes and no, because he was so dominant in the minors. I thought you had to take him out. So I didn't disagree with that, but pretty tough in a rebuilding team now without the safety net of having the older guy Markstrom with him and coming up in an apprenticeship. But yeah, by the same token, Kipper, I mean, that guy's one of the fastest goalies I've ever seen. Like I'm looking at speed east to west right now. Blomquist to me still is.

Yes, he could use a little more time in the minors, but he's got NHL speed. And I would put Dustin Wolfer at the top of that list. Like he is, man, he's fast. And what are we talking about? We're talking about a lot of movement east to west nowadays. Goalies have to be able to move. You know, it's almost like saying what is required 100% of the time to make a save? Positioning. And you need positioning. And if you can't move, and that means tracking player movement or a pass,

then you're never going to be there. And if you're not there, 100 pucks out of 100 are going to go in. And I think it's a matter of maintaining angle, depth, and squareness. You need those three elements to be able to play goal right now in the NHL. And the guys that are killing it, they're achieving that every night on every sequence. So you're talking about your New York Ranger team trying to figure them out. And in some ways, it's never a curse.

But because you have excellent goaltending, it's like if your parents have money. Whenever you keep losing your job, okay, they prop you up, whatever. You can sleep in the basement, you get by. But they can play vanilla, nondescript, lackadaisical hockey, but they got Shusterkin versus a team like Pittsburgh or others, they get their ass kicked if they don't have the goal tending. So in some ways, can it be a mixed blessing

when you're trying to figure out the other parts of a team? You know, it's difficult, Gordon, and I'm with you on that because you're still trying to figure out why aren't we consistent? If you watch New York right now, they're just not consistent in the same game. Forget about game two game, but in the same game. And here's the thing that I think is rather funny and perplexing. If you realize that east to west offense is the most valuable way to score, then it's perplexing to me that the Rangers don't know that they need to defend against that as well

because they are the second-best team in the NHL offensively east-to-west, but they are the worst at allowing east-to-west. So the forwards know it's valuable, but don't counter and play defense the right way. Do you know what really aggravates me defending right now, fellas, is guys taking their stick and bringing it to their side and trying to play goalie. And in some cases it's to the side down. So they're trying to hold a lane. And in some cases it's side and front. But what that is, is it's not Jacques Lemaire hockey. It's not Larry Robinson hockey. It's not Scott Stevens and Ken Danico, the way those guys have told me that you need to check with your feet.

Be fast in the D zone. Stay on your feet. Stick on puck. And if you do that, you're rushing people. And right now, I think a big reason why there is a lot of east to west in the game is because the lanes are there and I'm watching the ranger defenseman and their stick details they're not like those guys that I just mentioned you need stick on puck in the d zone and one of the drills I do when I'm on the ice coaching guys goalie coaching is if I have a goalie that isn't quite ready for time and space I'm always in the lane I'm putting my stick in places so that he knows where

the release is going to come from. So if my stick is present as a coach, it's going to make that drill easier on your goalie and help him develop. And then when he's really good at that, you can take your stick away and let him experience some time and space. But that's how difficult time and space is. Time and space, it's feet that you have to move your angle in your net because players can change their release points at any point and i think that understanding the time and space in the d zone needs to be eliminated you know why i think washington's so good right now guys that's carberry's message it is be fast kill the play as soon as possible good sticks check out how many goals

they've scored recently where they have all five leaning in because it's automatic. They're reading off each other's. They've got great sticks and they're going. And I feel like they're the most connected team in the offensive zone right now. Watching them, I'm like envious. And I saw them last year when they were terrible in the first round of playoffs against the rangers and they've just taken a 180 for me a couple of players i want to get to uh in this segment but we'll start with ovechkin first we just spoke to spencer uh in our earlier segment he was outstanding please download it if you didn't catch it live but uh ovechkin and whether or not you believe that there is some data that might suggest that this record will be broken as early as March.

Yeah, so one thing I fell into was at the same time, because you guys have talked on the show in this past week about Bedard, I found myself looking at time and space chances for Ovechkin. When is Ovechkin the best? When he's got a little room out there, right? And he's getting his one-timer off. What do you need to get a one-timer off or to have a quick release that's effective?

You need a little space. Well, Ovi's got six goals on 22 chances where he's had that time and space. The way that we qualify time and space as a company, guys, is that if there's a stick length away and there's nobody there you got time and space yeah so he's had 22 of those chances he scored six times so the show that i was listening to kipper was when you guys were discussing that bedard's getting closed off and everybody's able

to stay on him because he's the only threat he's actually not done that bad he's had 20 time and space chances but he's only scored twice just hasn just hasn't finished. And so he's not getting the benefit of the goals the way that Ovechkin is, but he's still getting his looks. But, my goodness, I watched that game the other night, Kepra against Minnesota. He's got a one-on-four with seven minutes to go, and he

turns the puck over at the offensive blue line. It goes the other way. Mrazik's got to make a two-on-one save. And then with four minutes left, he's got to fly by at the point. He's outside the zone when his man scores from the slot. I'm like, the kid, I agree. Like, it's a little too much for the kid right now. He doesn't have enough support, whether it's top-to-bottom support.

But he is getting his looks, but he's also getting the benefit of getting on the ice. Yeah, that 15-goal pace is is gonna get up there i mean it's he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna finish with a decent number it might not be one that you link to having a great year but you know you forget how young he is too ovi's producing though boys that's the message ovi is getting on the board with chances at this point last year he was ice cold and he's all over the board right now. I see him to continue scoring. So Mike Sullivan, before the game last night,

talked about the three, not ideal having the three goalies, but it'll play itself out. And right now it looks like they have no goalies instead of three, whatever in Pittsburgh as far, you know. And I'm curious statistically about, like, first of all, they got to figure a different style to play because they're not going to fire the coach. They can't go young all of a sudden.

They can't do what Calgary did last year during midstream. So they got to figure some stuff out. But goaltending-wise, you know, let's, how bad are the numbers beyond six goals in the first period last night? And just in general, you know, Tristan Jerry trying to find himself. And if just one of the guys grabs it, they're fine. Would that be the case? Right.

It is. I'll start with Blomqvist because I think he is a top 10 goalie statistically right now. He's off to a really good start. I watched his first game against Detroit, and I saw it in the first five minutes. I'm like, this kid's good. He can move. He can play. And he needs the support.

It's one of the toughest places to play Gord, playing for the Penguins in net right now. It's just the way it is. Statistically, it is. It's the Rangers that give up the most east to west, and then Pittsburgh. And in the top 10, I didn't finish my earlier point, which is everybody in the top 10, east to west against, in the bottom 10, non-playoff teams with the exception of the Rangers across the street here.

That's it. You can't win when you give it up that way. And I think the reason why you can't win, it's not just because the chance itself is difficult. It's because it feeds into everything else that you're doing. And you can imagine being in Tristan Jari's skates where he's trying to come out for a shot, and he's saying, well, where are my options right now?

I can't really tell. The sticks aren't great. I don't know who's got lanes. I'm going to back up a little bit here. And now there's more space in the net. And you can aim big and be confident when you're taking your shot on him because there's more room. And you're in your head a little bit because you're thinking about is the pass coming or is it a shot? And what's my role?

Back to your role. What's my role? And I think Pittsburgh, they get enough on the offensive side of the puck. They're a lot like the Rangers too. They have to defend better and they have to commit to it now because it's getting late quick. Valley, if Pittsburgh's the hardest team to goaltend for, who's the hardest team to goaltend for. Who's the easiest? Is it Hellebuck in Winnipeg with a goal differential of what?

I used to say Boston. Right? 38, 36? I like the answer to this one, Kipper. So the easiest place to play is Winnipeg. So what we do is we take away all the shots from the neutral zone, Gord, all the shots from the neutral zone, all the fluff from the outside. And we just look at scoring chances, the difficulty of them, and then how many you face.

And the easiest environment, it's a 9.05 safe percentage environment for Hellebuck and Comrie. So as a tandem, they have the easiest environment. The second, well, I'll say this, the easiest environment for a starting goalie, you'll be surprised. This year, it's Linus Almar with a 9.07. In the games that he's played, he's actually had a very easy environment. And that's why, and we've been talking a lot on the show, Kepra and I, with Borny Gord, about why I think Ottawa gets in over Boston this year. And if Allmark can just keep it together and be willing to play every game that he's asked, they get in. But they need him to be a rock there.

His environment is very favorable to getting into the playoffs. Well, it's.917. Kipper has a way easier environment when I'm here compared to.902 when Justin's here. So that's that's another little little stack on the media side right the the toronto maple east more plain washington washington believes the only two with the goaltenders that it used to be more common right that the catch with the quote wrong glove and i and i i mean is there a statistical thing

about you know forwards or shooters saying holy crap, I don't like it. My numbers go down when I have goaltenders with the opposite situation. Is there anything to that or not? I think there's definitely something to it, and I'll share this with you. When I was practicing, one of the most difficult aspects about being a backup goaltender was that you get so used to your teammates. And so I know Ryan Callahan, when he's coming down the wing, he's going low blocker.

Brendan Shanahan's a righty. He likes to come over the blue line and go back same side. And he would try and go high glove on me. But I get to know the rhythm and routine of all the, where they want to shoot. And I would say to a Brandon Dubinsky or a Callahan, I'd be like, listen, I know you're going low blocker. Can you just change it up?

Like I'm trying to just, you know, get out of my own head a little bit here and just focus on the puck and make some saves live. And they would say to me, no, Valley, I need to shoot my shot because I'm going to take that shot when I get that chance in a game. And it needs to be sharp. So now I'm thinking to myself, all right, so now you're going against a righty goalie.

How's that looking? How's your low blocker, Callie? You know, now you're shooting low glove all day. And i always wonder about that because the hardest part about being a backup in my opinion is turning that mechanism off in your head because you can't be seeing live shots for the first time when the puck drops at a game and and that's the hard part and i think you you know what it is gordon when you change teams as a goalie. For the first two weeks, you get abused. And then after that, you take over because you learn everybody's shots. Great stuff, Ali, man.

As always, like shot out of a cannon and 25 minutes of nothing but solid info. And boys, you wouldn't believe how tight my time is to get across the street and get on the bridge. Go, buddy. Mikhail is our producer. It's Butch Goring's wife. And she's like, Val, you better be there at 530. I'm looking athail is our producer. It's Butch Goring's wife. And she's like, Val, you better be there at 530. I'm looking at the clock right now.

Go, go, go, my friend. Go. Thanks for doing this. That is Steve Allocat. He's got the four minute mile now. Every Tuesday, the amount of information is off the charts. And he explains it well. It's not like you kind of scratch your head more. That's key.

That's the whole thing. The ability to convey it. Now I feel guilty. Just tell me, Valley. I'll tell you guys. I had no idea he had to be over by 530. Yeah, we got to learn to communicate more, Valley. Okay. I'm going to text Valley. Valley for dummies. That's what our segment should be called. And we're three of them. I like that

Dustin Wolf. He's an enjoyable goalie to watch. He got a hell of a compliment out of Valley as one of the fastest goalies he's ever seen. He's small though, right? Dustin Wolf, like he's not a very big guy. There's not a ton of small goalies left. No.

Soros comes to mind. He comes to mind. I like watching him play a lot. And he's saying these guys need enough games in the American Hockey League. He's talking in general general this guy's the hl goalie of the year twice right yeah what else can he do right what else can he do so he's certainly and the good part is fulladar is playing well too so he can be a tandem right now he doesn't have to be the guy in the nhl um logan thompson who catches with that right hand seven and oh in washington no goalie has ever gotten

seven and a lot of washington before wow i hate the wrong-handed goalie anytime you play against i can't shoot blocker side it feels weird to me to shoot on a right-handed goalie blocker side i'm like i don't know why there's ever scored on that side i wonder why there's so few because it should be the same as although it used to be everyone shot left and now a lot of people shoot right remember that for like it just seemed everyone did and yeah i always thought it was like like palmeteer was the first one i remember as a kid yeah yeah catching with that hand and i i have this weird thing where every player i've ever played with or against I can remember what they shoot left or right even like goalies

it's just you know when a guy's catching right it's the first it's just embedded in your head forever we went to play golf at Coppinwood with Brad May and his dad Ken a couple weeks ago and Kipper we were sitting at the table having a beer

and Kipper's like, oh, he used to play beer league with that guy. Yeah, he shoots right. I'm like, how the hell? And then, and then. It's like, how the hell do you remember that? This is like 25 years ago in a beer league and the guy's at the tournament. And you remember what he shoots.

And I'm like, hey, Jonesy, how are you? Hey, you shot right. Did you? Yeah, I did shoot right. I you remember what he shoots. And I'm like, hey, Jonesy, how are you? Hey, you shot right. Did you? Yeah, I did shoot right. I said, see, guys. It's a weird thing. I couldn't tell you what anyone shoots on my rear league team.

Maybe that's more about the beer. Anyways, game time? Game time, baby. All right, it's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds to find out why it's ever ordinary. Bet365.

Let's be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Well, it's the biggest at 365. That's for 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Well, it's the biggest game of the year as Kipper said here, the Battle of Ontario. As Doug McLean says, huge. We're not supposed to talk about the Leafs at the National Hour, but I'm going to go ahead

and make a pick tonight on the Leafs game and I'm going to go with a Ridley Gregg anytime goal against the Toronto Maple Leafs. No, a cross check. Maybe, I don't know if it'll be a slap shot into an empty net. I don't know if it'll be a goal with a goalie in the net, but Ridley Greg will get a goal tonight against the Toronto Maple Leafs for a little bit of revenge.

A couple of the other games I'm looking at Canadian teams in action, Vancouver and Calgary. We'll talk about that a little bit later after the break. Vancouver's a big favorite in that one. Minus 230. Flames in the second half of back-to-back. And the New York Islanders are in Edmonton for a rematch of what year final? How many times did they play in the final? You guys know that a little better than me.

It's minus 230 for the Edmonton Oilers. The New York Islanders are plus 190. So that was game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. It's 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

How many times did they play in the final of those two teams? I think just once. Twice, didn't they? Twice or once? They lost to them and they taught them the lesson, right? And then did they beat the Islanders? I think they beat the Islanders the next year. I can't remember.

Of the first four Stanley Cups. I should know remember. Of the first and fourth Stanley Cups. I should know that. I don't know what I had for breakfast today. Actually, you know, a little thing. Roger Nielsen got brought in by the Oilers to look at video. Really? Just in the playoffs. Because he got, and specifically break down the opposition

for their first Stanley Cup. So, Cody Campbell paid tribute to Roger last night. And I never, I'll never miss an opportunity for someone to pay tribute to Roger. Okay, we'll take a quick break. We got seven games on tap, including the Flames and the Vancouver Canucks, plus

we'll talk about Jeremy Roenick, his speech last night at the Hockey Hall of Fame induction. Plenty more when we return to Real Kipper and excuse me, and Stelic. Introducing Seeker,

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Find the radio, podcast, news, and sports you love. Seeker. Seeker. Seek your sounds. This hour of Real Kipper and Boren brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kipper, escort Stelix, Sammy McKee. Closing in on our show. That will lead to seven games on tap,

including Calgary and the Vancouver Canucks. Canucksucks struggling at home calgary really good on the road anything gonna give tonight gourd uh well you know a couple a couple things one is you gotta like what you know we commended spencer carberry in the washington capitals for kind of doing a retool on the fly last year calgary's done it to a certain degree as well. You know, it started last year. Things went south, and it looks like they don't have to take as much of a dip as they thought. Like, Vancouver, okay, EP, missing. Brock Besser now out.

I know that's just been a couple of games, or a game so far. And no Thatcher Demko. And they've been playing great, you know. And again, Steve Valakad wasn't over the top about Kevin Lankan who's going to get the start tonight, but just he has really stopped the bleeding and goal. Yeah. And our buddy Elliot Freeman, you know, picking Quinn Hughes to win the heart kind of raised a lot of eyebrows.

I liked it. But he's been a real key, key cog that way. So, you know, I don't like, for me, the jury's still out on both teams or had been at the start of the season. I wasn't knocking Vancouver, but we saw last year, New Jersey and Seattle took steps back after having positive playoff experiences.

And I was just saying, you know, Vancouver has to prove they're not that kind of team either. And so far, despite some adversity, they've been doing it. Yeah, they signed Kevin Lankett in September. Yeah, that was a late one. And, I mean, he's got a 9.05 for them, 2.61. He's making league minimum.

Like, that's pretty, it's league average goal, above league average goaltending for them. And a real nice win against an L.A. team that's been coming on as well for Calgary. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, that L.A. King team's been kind of quiet started with a bunch of road games because they're renovating their their home you know their home arena and

and then Sammy um learning a new system under Jim Hiller he's not totally new but I mean they played that one three one it was they're doing a bit of a switch now and they're there they're there they're there in the top four so Calgary's win night. And Jonathan Huberto getting a goal. I mean, we always, you know, just can he find it? Can he blossom? Can he find that? Because everyone affixes that number of what you make in salary. And he's come, you know, nowhere near yet to get that

like he did with the Florida Panthers a few years ago. Where does that go long term? Jonathan Huberto? Probably nowhere. Well, not looking good right now uh yeah so those contracts don't go away so i don't know what you so you so you hope but then you know i don't even if you you know and nothing's gonna happen probably for another year or two but eventually if you if you do feel like you can move off of it that number is so huge at 10.5 that even if you ate three or four million well Pierre-Luc Dubois may be a bit of an example that Washington you know

took you know if you find a buyer might be the right scenario I don't know it's a strange one Kipper like you played on a few teams I don't mean i just mean about sometimes it doesn't work out everyone just assumes okay sam's got traded he's going to play the same for the minnesota wild like he is for the new york islanders and then they go oh he's halfway what season's half over what the hell's with sam mckee and you've had that i've certainly had in work situations, just non, you know, it goes well or doesn't go well. And I, you know, you're kind of in Calgary, the clock has seemingly struck 12 for Jonathan Huberto, and you keep trying to push it back and take another crack at it.

Or do you accept it's a bad contract and he'll fill a certain role and be overpaid in a cap world? Yeah, I think he's just going to be overpaid. Well, the cap's going up, so maybe he'll be less overpaid. Silver lining. I do buy into the philosophy that there's no untradeable contract. It's just a matter of working out the numbers, and if sometimes you need to do something just for the sake of looking different, if the numbers match up, then sometimes deals happen that you make a trade

for the sake of making a trade if it all balances out on the money side. Eric Carlson to Pittsburgh, Brent Burns to Dallas. Like, I mean, San Jose having contracts that are immovable and, you know, hurdle in some degree to Las Vegas, then all of a sudden you get creative and, you know, you, because you're right, it's a sexy acquisition. Like people said, wow, Eric Carlson coming. That's great.

Brent Burns coming. That's great. Hurdle coming. I mean, that's a, those are sexy looking acquisitions, but on the business side, there's a deeper dive that needs to be looked at, but sometimes the sexiness overwhelms the team acquiring it. And that's maybe what Calgary can hope,

which happens with Jonathan Huberto. I bet you Pittsburgh was wishing that Carlson was actually unmovable. Well, there's a lot of redos in life we'd like to do as well, so it just doesn't work that way. Now, did you stick around right through the Hall of Fame last night to get to Jeremy Roenick, which I thought whoever the committee, who was on the committee last night really did a nice job for no other reason is that they left Jeremy Roenick last.

So I wonder, was he alphabetically last? Because they tend to go alphabetical. No, I believe that they thought everybody was going to stick around. Not to disrespect any other speakers. They get introduced to the press conference and alphabetical, but you're right. Shea Weber would have been last,

so good move. You're 100% right. Not to disrespect anyone else that spoke last night, but come on. It's Jeremy Roenick. I didn't go to the party like you did. You were out there clubbing until 2 in the morning. I was. But I did see the show.

I think the feeling was that if JR was going to burn the whole house down. He's the Kardashian. He's the Kardashian. With his speech. Yeah. At least everybody else would have gone by then. Yeah. And then we could just kind of look for the,

screaming out of the exits. Yeah. People were walking to the exit. It's not like they're missing anybody else. It didn't happen. But very JR, first of all, very emotional. Right. Speaks from the heart.

Yeah. And he didn't disappoint anybody last night. Yeah. Well, he speaks from the heart. And he didn't disappoint anybody last night. Yeah, well, he speaks from the heart, and that's why it took him 12 years. And that doesn't make it right. Yeah. That doesn't make it right. You know, and he was candid about how pissed off he was that it took him 12 years and how it shouldn't. And the mistakes that he made and uttering, I was wrong.

Yeah. Right? I mean, that's... How about the Doug Wilson? I don't know which clip you're playing, so I don't want to walk was wrong. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's... How about the Doug Wilson? I don't know which clip you're playing, so I don't want to walk on it. No. But I never knew the Doug Wilson story.

Is that what we're playing? We're not playing. Oh, we're playing a clip. No, we're not. I didn't know that part about everybody in life. That's what I like about the speeches because everybody out there can relate to something non-hockey. And when you're low and all of a sudden a friend offers that support.

Now, they can't offer you a job like Doug Wilson did with the San Jose Sharks, but somebody that when you're down, when everyone's vacating you, comes in your corner a big way. That's something our friend Brian Burke is very good at. Brian Burke, when you get kicked, Brian Burke's a good guy. I was surprised Ken Hitchcock said that. He had no professional relationship with Brian Burke, but when he got fired,

he said, Brian called him every day. This is a number of years ago. Oh, listen, for 98%, the phone stops ringing the moment you're gone. Oh, boy. I experienced it. Yeah. And then you learn there's more to life

than being a New York Ranger or Toronto Maple, working for the Leafs and all that. If it defines you, that's sad. But you do get caught up and you forget that every time, oh, of course, Delick's on the line or Dick Kipko's on the line. Got to take it. And then five years later, oh, he's looking for a job. He's looking for a job.

Just tell him I'm out. I'm busy. That's right. And for him, that Doug Wilson story was, I remember a guy, I was a huge Dallas Cowboy fan in the boat. A guy named Charlie Waters talked about his son had died with one of those sudden death things, perfectly healthy. You know, he was about 18 or 19 and kind of wits in.

And Roger Staubach said, hey, come on back to Dallas. You're really popular here and I can set you up. He's got a big real estate company. And guy comes back and it turns his life around. You know, just something about and I can set you up. He's got a big real estate company, and the guy comes back, and it turns his life around. You know, just something about you're walking now aimlessly. You don't know what, and someone comes through like that. And, you know, Doug Wilson, who I don't know well,

but that spoke volumes, what he did for Jeremy Roenick and the way Jeremy articulated the whole thing. And it wasn't just a hockey thing. He basically saved his life. Like he says almost like that song, Someone my life literally he said last night not yeah great story and he gets to play with the sharks and he scores his 500th goal with the sharks obviously which is the weirdest milestone goal of all time you remember the goal where it's a i didn't remember we played for the sharks he comes i sent a tweet out with the video earlier today. He comes in over the red line, and he goes, like he just makes a dump in,

and it hits the stanchion, and it shoots straight into the crease, but it doesn't go in. But then Alex Auld, who's the goalie for the Coyotes at the time, tries to handle it, and he pokes it in over his own goal line for his 500th goal. And he shoots it in from the broadcast. It was panger on the broadcast. He said he didn't want to score it into an empty net,

but I'm not sure that was better. It's really good. It's really good. Don't you think Sammy should get out more? Why? I just remember these things. I remember these things. That's good.

I remember these things. But I should get out more. You're right. I spend a lot of time at home. Last night was interesting to be there last night and then start watching some of the montreal canadian current players come in out of uh a late win against the buffalo sabers so bust up from buffalo very classy very classy and carrie price but fighting off autograph seekers

like he was getting a little little little spirited he was one of the last guys in there and they got some autograph guys that are pretty belligerent in that and uh yeah him making it as well and listen i mean i watched a good portion of the the last part of the game and it was anyone's game in the third period they they found a way to win and they desperately needed it, Montreal. So not the most reassuring 7-5 win, but something that maybe they can just build on because it was a tough weekend losing to Toronto. Well, and Buffalo, again, they continue. Buffalo, Ottawa, Detroit.

If Buffalo would have won, they would have been in the playoffs as of today, trying to punch through to get there. But I got to tell you, and Kipper being with the team and that, and Sammy just about that, okay, when it's going horrible and it's not going well at all montreal so they were going to come regardless which is very classy you get that win oh yeah that just oh it's and even even barry trotz is there because of course because shea weber and david poyler going in

the fact you beat utah on saturday you know they get a point losing last night. But anyway, just that makes all the – you can breathe a little bit. Because before it's stifling. You know, it's like you got this kind of odor around you about just, you know, I don't even want to say to them. So at least, you know, I was happy in that sense. I don't really cheer for teams per se. But if there's something like that going on, I like them having to come. Because I know what

that's like you get you know throw me a bone so get me a w so okay the team party is a little bit better spirits for example so you were around jr after his speech what did you get a sense of relief after he was oh like the old uh thousand pound gorilla off his back. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. Yeah. The other one, too, is he's used the word when we had him on the show on Thursday, I believe, that there's a sense of validation, right? And, you know, being around Eric Lindros, too, I know what that does for how you feel about yourself and how you feel like you're perceived. It's just, it is the cherry on top, right?

It's not a Stanley Cup, but it's got to be the second greatest feeling in the world outside of being a champion to be inducted in the Hall of Fame and how it can change your life and the way you feel about yourself. So if you win as a team, you have the Stanley Cup ring, which you have one of them. And so that's a great thing. Otherwise, if you sign your autograph, you don't, you know, Gord Stelic, a Hart Trophy winner, a Lady Bing winner, second team All-Star.

How they sign it now is HHOF and your year. Hockeyettes, were they all? Daryl Sittler, whatever the year is. So that is your,of and your year hockey that's where they all daryl sitler whatever the year is so that is your that that's your mark now that's your indelible mark and people look and they go okay yeah i understand that's special and and and that's not something you're you're not you're not bragging you know it's something it's it's an it's sort of a intangible yet tangible thing so it's neat and that's where it's a wonderful weekend because i get to do a few things behind the scenes and they're all sitting like here you know and you

never you never get that kippy you know i mean first of all they're active players different but just yeah letting their guard down and just i do sign 94 cup yeah i'm like it's just like it's the greatest feeling in the world, you know, putting those numbers down beside your signature. And if I don't do it, people will say, can you put that down? Especially if I sign a hockey card, a Ranger hockey card, can you just add 94 cup? Yeah. Well, it's like I signed, like, claim Brad Marsh in the waiver draft.

It takes a while. Gord Selig, Dante's Fiesta. Oops. Get the sauce off. You look at the Atlantic, you mention peppers. It's Gord Stelic. What is that, Derek? Did you computerize that? That's not me.

I never said that before. Fresh off their Dante's Fiesta with extra peppers it's gourd stellic that's me i said extra everything i think that's from gordo's uh filled in one time you mentioned buffalo at seven and eight uh detroit at six and seven but there's still a sense that you know if we're not talking about a team that looks like they're they're gonna hang in there that you know if we're not talking about a team that looks like they're they're going to hang in there that you know there could be some changes there could be like we talk about boston is montgomery in trouble is lalonde in a scenario where he feels he's got the security now to keep going on with detroit like how do you see how do you see those teams moving from week to week

well i know first of all i know like uh coley campbell who talks to everybody kind of about How do you see those teams moving from week to week? Well, first of all, I know like Colby Campbell, who talks to everybody kind of about different things and was talking to me weeks ago about this coaches meeting. It got moved because of the Goodrow tragedy, right? But they meet and they meet with the NHL and they kind of have a fun one. And then they go out for a few beers. And he said, they took a group picture last year.

What is it? 14 of them are gone. Like, imagine that. Like, last year, the start of last season. So the carnage of head coaches in the NHL is unbelievable. So when you're talking, I don't know what particular general managers or presidents or decision makers feel, but it certainly shows the knee-jerk reaction to fire a coach has never been more prevalent.

So the other ones are noticed. And I think Jim Montgomery definitely, obviously, is the one that seems to be the most aware of it, the most acute, and is going to stay on top of things. But if it's the Habs again, then why would anyone get fired in Toronto? Well, even Toronto, Boston, Tampa Bay, and Florida. And then on the other side, what do you do again in Buffalo Ottawa Detroit did you buy that okay just one more year we'll get our fans to buy into it I don't know that's going to be that's

going to be their problem that's why you mentioned tonight and I think a very valid comment about you know Ottawa can make a bit of a statement tonight because they want to get back to being in the playoffs and also the Battle of Ontario because this Toronto team has dined on Ottawa in the playoffs when Ottawa was the better team and then in the regular season when Toronto's been the best. So, you know, just a lot of little things in that respect. Seven games on tap, including Boston at St. Louis.

They lost 8-1 to Washington, right? And Ottawa beat Boston. Yeah, so I mean, I don't know what statement games. St. Louis, funny team, huh? Funny team. They've had some big wins and they've had some big losses. At some point, Boston's going to have to show that the free agent pickups

and the money committed to a guy like Zdorov has to start paying off. And the commitment to Swayman. You've got to stop taking so many penalties, Zdorov. Takes a penalty every game. Well, it's something the Monk Army said, right? Just about they have to get more discipline in general. Absolutely.

All right, just like that, two hours over, Gordo. I'm ready for four. Come on, this is nothing. Buddy, you worked already this morning. All Gordo does is work. I'm ready for four. Come on, this is nothing. Buddy, you worked already this morning. All Gordo does is work. I'm like the Marines. I've done more by 9 a.m. than most people have done all day. He also talked to Valley twice today.

And we are lucky for it. Our thanks to Spencer Carberry in our Leaf Edition hour. And then Steve Aliquette at the top of the hour. Great two hours with you, buddy. Great, Kipper. Really appreciate you always coming in. Thanks, Sammy. Have a great night, everybody.

We're back tomorrow.