Real Kyper & Bourne - Grieving Game 2

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with Nick Kypreos over the phone, and they get into the Leafs' Game 2 loss last night, the significance of Knies' injury, the horrific start to the second period, Sam Bennett's dirty plays and if he should be suspended, the officials 'keeping score,' Samsonov concerns and potential lineup changes for Game 3. They are joined by NHL Network's Mike Rupp (48:08), who discusses Florida's momentum, the away team discrepancy in this year's postseason, the idea of 'earning luck,' and how to lessen Tkachuk's impact on the game. Later, the FAN Morning Show's Justin Cuthbert shares his thoughts on the Leafs' waning confidence, how to beat Bobrovsky and the importance of controlling Bennett (1:06:41). Justin and Sam close by answering listener questions and predictions for Game 3.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, welcome everyone to Real Kipper and Bourne, but it's no Kipper. It's Sam McKee, it's Justin Bourne. Welcome, Sammy. Hello, Justin. To this side of the glass. How's it feel? Ah, fine. Yeah, I love that. I love i love that forbodes for the show so i'm rushing here first off i'll also say hello to derrick brandeo brandeo how you doing pal you good we got sis back there yeah all right we're rocking and rolling uh kipper

is he's not with us today but he's going to call in i think at some point just to make sure we get his take which i'm actually quite excited about. But I myself am a little flustered just getting here. My kids' school caught fire for real. So they're like home now. Our pets' heads are falling off. Yeah, so I got here like a minute ago. Yeah, running around a little bit.

My article will be up on Sportsnet.ca in a moment on my thoughts from game two but last night you and i were on leaf's talk post game we chatted about how we felt about the second game and we were pretty positive yeah i thought the show was actually had a pretty positive tone not that like we thought think they're going to win the series necessarily but about how they played and i get here today i sense a different tone from you i from last night i feel exactly the same as i felt last night in terms of how well they played okay and the fact that they lost that game and them not being able to convert chances and turning the puck over but it just sucks that we're here because to not get that one when you play

that good yeah what does that do to a team psyche what does that point you're at home you play as well as they've played maybe ever i mean they dominated five zero minutes of that six zero game so i don't know what they're feeling today like maybe they're encouraged because they played so well and that they that's what the coach would say that's what i mean he's telling them hey guys if you play like that again but ultimately they played that well and they didn't get a result and now you're going on the road for two games where you're already in a hole to nothing like i feel like this is a really tough time for sheldon keef in terms of keeping these guys in it like i know they've got veterans i know they've been through it but that is a massive gut punch last night

that I am still feeling. I woke up today. I was feeling it. Yeah. And you mentioned the nice thing, too. You know, you're also worse. Yes. As a roster.

Significantly worse. Because he's been your best left winger throughout the whole playoffs. Yeah. It's actually funny how quickly he became so impactful. He was on the ice for multiple six-on-five game-tying goals when they were chasing down Tampa and on the ice for every overtime winner.

Is that good? Yeah. And last night, they're down a goal, chasing for a full period, and they need one guy to make one play, and they don't have him. And the loss is not because Matthew Nyes isn't there, but...

You could have put one in the net. You never know. Certainly, or created something, or just done something different than more shifts for, I know Yarncroft didn't play a lot, but whoever it may be in his stead. In the space-time continuum, maybe he does score a tying goal if he doesn't get taken out of that game by Sam Bennett. I mean, being the diehard Nye's fan that I am, I could very easily see that. So, yeah. Can I, can we do the, you want to do the Bennett thing?

Looks like Kipper might be calling in here. So maybe we'll save the Bennett thing. But I didn't think he should have got suspended last night. Okay. And now with the result of the play. Yeah. And re-watching the plays that he did over and over. The fact that he's a repeat

offender it is a little bit wild he didn't get maybe one yeah so i am on the internet like you yes and i can see the discourse yes and everyone is wants yes blood ah like i'm see the amount of i put out you know the the tweet about having you know the question that we're going to take at the end of the show, and people are unhinged. Like, maybe they should put Simmons in there to beat the crap out of Bennett. Yeah, and it's like, stop it.

Yeah, I'm sure Bennett's going to take that fight. Oh, boy. Oh, we got our boy. Nick in Boston calling in here? Nick in Boston. Hello, Nick. How are you? I'm good.

How are you guys? You know, Sammy, we're losing our boy a bit, Kipper. He was pretty confident yesterday. I don't hear the same tone today, I'll be honest. Well, first of all, I feel like I'm a parent that's left town for the weekend and calling my kids to see if everything's okay at home. So, listen, is the oven off?

Is it off? We're good, Dad. We're fine. Get up off the floor, stop playing with the dog, and go to school. Hey, and Theo's graduating this weekend. Oh, my God. That's crazy. What a career wraparound that is for you yeah

the kid i just you just listened to me uh give instructions to go to school when he was in grade two or grade three is graduating this weekend so um all good on on my my part uh as far as the leaf fans yes, a little concerned after last night. Yeah. No, as I mentioned, there's a lot of good play from the Leafs. They controlled long stretches. They didn't get the result last night. What are you chalking it up to?

What do you see as the major issues? We'd love to just get your overview, Kipper, on last night's game. JB, a minute and six seconds. How's that? Yeah. How's that to sum up why they're down 2-0? A minute and six seconds. Yeah. And it was a horrific one minute and six seconds.

You're down 2-0 because you didn't start the second period and you took your foot off the gas pedal for a minute and six seconds. And that is in the nutshell. You guys want to focus on the 50 minutes or the 55 that look great? Great, do it. But if you look at the one minute and six seconds, that's the difference during this time of year.

One or two mistakes can come back and haunt you. If the Lightning want to go back and kick themselves in the first round against the Toronto Maple Leafs, they're going to kick themselves on blowing a 4-1 lead in game four, right?

The Leafs now have to go to Florida and make sure they don't kick themselves next week to look at one minute and six seconds. And for me, go back and play that minute and six seconds. It was a disaster from puck drop. From McCabe to Nylander to giving Barkov the opportunity to go in like that. And then Sheldon pulls off the forwards.

And for whatever reason, McCabe is horrific on 19 seconds. He wants to leave him and Brody out there. And then all that did was just compound the remaining 47 seconds, where, again, horrible decisions. When the puck's 200 feet away from Bobrovsky and it comes right back in your net, it was a disaster from Matthews' half-assed forecheck, where it goes D to D to Ekblad.

Bunting goes in there, does a drive by. And then McCabe comes in to challenge Barkov and he gets a clean out. It was a disaster minute and six seconds. And that's why they're down to nothing after last night. So Kiproy would be remiss. It didn't get your take on the Bennett situation. Leaf fans are not pleased.

My friend, um, the, the one, which one, the one behind the net with knives. the Bennett situation. Leaf fans are not pleased, my friend. Which one? The one behind the net with Nyes that's now probably driven Nyes out of the series with a concussion. And then the following play where he cross-checks Bunting in the neck,

follows him up with one in the lower back. People are clamoring for a suspension. What are your thoughts on that? You got 5K for that one. Yeah, you got 5K. Yeah, listen, I appreciate Sheldon suspension what are your thoughts you got 5k for that one yeah you got 5k yeah listen i i i appreciate sheldon trying to you know work the league with the comparison to the austin matthews in the outdoor game the one that he needed to compare it to was lafferty on colton a week ago

that's the same cross check and what samfferty, we never thought for a minute Sam Lafferty was going to get suspended off of that, right? No. No. But people, Kipper, people are more mad about the behind-the-net wrangle. Yeah, the Bennett one is what's got people pissed off. Yeah, listen, you can't suspend on just the outcome. And he's concussed.

He's out. We know that. And that's why people are clamoring. If he would have gotten up, the most you would have been screaming about is a missed penalty. And it was a rough, absolutely all day long, needed to be a two-minute penalty. But the only reason you're talking about a suspension is because the outcome was bad for Nyes and the Toronto Maple Leafs. If you go watch it, Bennett's got the puck, and he wants to go around the net,

and it's actually Nyes who goes and physically physically confronts them nize goes and tries to rub them off and then they don't you know from then on all you have is a 10-year veteran a man against against a guy that's just out of college that isn't used to that type of physicality. And Bennett ate him up. We know Bennett ate him up, and he took an extra shot at him. And that's it at the end of the day. I'm telling you, if he gets up, if Niles gets up, no one's screaming for a suspension on that play. But he didn't, Kipper.

And he left the game, and he was out for the whole game. And this is Bennett who has been suspended three times in his NHL career, plus in the playoffs. I think people have a right to be pissed off about it. They're pissed off because he's concussed, Sammy. Yeah, I know. The play doesn't warrant a suspension. He's concussed. Like I said, if he stays in the game, no one's screaming for a suspension but it's concussed like i said if he stays in the game no one's

screaming for a suspension yeah i listen i i agree kepper we were we were just getting into that a little bit it's a bad play it's a rough it's excessive it's a you know i think he's a dirty player at times but not sure you can suspend for that play you know the so the minute six gets away from them and they scored two goals just two goals for the fourth straight game. Bobrovsky is now the best goalie in the playoffs in terms of goals saved above expected. You think it's just a hot goalie? Are they not getting to him?

What are you seeing for their inability to score enough? I don't see anywhere near the traffic that we saw against Vasilevsky and the ability to stay there and cause havoc. We're all in agreement that this series is, there's more room out there, right? For sure. Justin, you talked about that from game one, that there's a lot more room out there, which means that there's gaps, there's space. And right now, Wabrowski has a ton of space to see the puck.

You've got to start getting into his space. You've got to start bothering him. Don't knock him. Just bump him. Do whatever you can. But this is the guy that's hurting you right now. We talked about, you know, Kachuk in the first game. He was quieter, but, you know,

he still had enough room to make a world-class pass to... Who scored the game-winning goal there? Forsling, was it? Yeah, Forsling. Forsling. Forsling, okay? That was a world-class pass right through his seam for the game-winning goal.

No, he didn't have the physicality that he had in game one, but right now, it's not Kachuk, it's not Bennett, it's Bobrovsky. That's your biggest issue now going into Florida, and you've got to solve him. You've got to hope that the trend that he's had in his career where he cannot sustain longevity happens as early as Sunday. For sure. For sure. All right. Well, Kip, listen, I know you're down there in Boston. You got any fadeaway thoughts for us? Are you good to go? How are we feeling about game three in two weeks. Listen, just look at the road records.

Yeah. Look at New Jersey losing two at home and going into Madison Square Garden and winning. Like, this is a crazy playoff, man. Anybody that just writes off the Leafs right now, hey, maybe it will happen. But judging by what I've seen so far in these playoffs, man, things might be still up for grabs.

Love it. Love it. All right, pal. Well, you enjoy yourself down there. Congrats on your son graduating. Great accomplishment. We look forward to chatting with you on Monday, man. See you, Kippy.

Enjoy the rest of the show, everybody. All right. Thanks, pal. Sounds good. Nick Kiprios, ladies and gentlemen. Nick in Boston. Nick in Boston. Nick in New England. I was just about before, you know, before we had Kip there,

you and I were about to have the chat. I do agree that I don't think you can suspend for the attempted head slam on the ice, which sounds ridiculous. It's just, you know know they're tangled it's rough and violent whatever i don't know that it's like a slew foot level of violence or i mean you're just the thing that pisses me off and like i said last night i didn't necessarily i guess the thing that's changed and kipper is right is that he's hurt and I think they played the results a little bit with the Bunting one as well, right?

The fact that Chernak was hurt. And Bunting had no history. What Bunting did was worse than what Sam Bennett did. No question. Like, I'm not going to sit here and be that Johnny Lee fan and say it's in the same park. Right. But I do think giving the benefit of the doubt to a guy

who doesn't, I wouldn't say necessarily deserves it. Has not earned it, yeah. Like, he doesn't necessarily earn, and, you know, you compile the fact that he cross-checks a guy in the back of the neck, buries him while he's lying on the ground. Like, you know, a combination of those both. Yeah, yeah. There's an argument to me, and I'm siding with my my leaf fan brethren here which i don't always do as you know yeah i think he did deserve a game you know i i am uh okay with the marsha marshawn

suspension which is i call the cumulative a-hole penalty which is you've done enough things yeah but now here's a reply you're not going to like i don't think which is to me this feels like leafs fans feel robbed by the result there is no question you're right and are upset today and want some blood they want to blame something they want to pin it on a moment they want to find whatever you know if you get that one game for bennett that game still lost last night it's still two nothing it stinks but it does feel I just want to know what's considered targeting the head yeah like that's not targeting the head for you Brandon yeah like where's the line like like can it not move for just a week he he tossed his upper body which is attached to his head to the ice which is apparently not

targeting enough but it's the number one thing people are asking me about. We should get into it with Keefe. We should listen to the Bennett stuff that he has. There's multiple clips on it. So, Brandeo, if we could start with Keefe on the Bennett plays and then follow it up with Maurice on the bunting and nines play as well, if we could just go back-to-back with those, and then we'll come out from that.

In terms of the hit, I'm not going to comment on the bunting and nyes play as well if we could just go back to back with those and then we'll go out come out from that in terms of the the hit i'm not gonna comment on the league we'll look at look at that you know i'm sure the cross check on bunting is eerily similar to the one that we saw with austin last year in the outdoor game we know how that one worked out so you know we'll we'll just see the league league will look at all these kind of things. I didn't see the outdoor game. I know that will shock you that you wouldn't all be focused on the Leafs games. Probably had a pre-scout for those pesky Florida Panthers. So I can't comment on that. Everybody seemed to survive that, the tangle up behind the net.

I think we've been on the other side of the ledger enough. Oh, I didn't like any of that. That made me angry. I didn't like any of the Marie stuff there. The Toronto jab, the pesky Florida Panthers comments that everyone survived the tangle up just fine, which they did not, a serious injury to a young man's brain. And the last part in particular, which I think we've been on the other side of the ledger enough.

I don't get that. I think we've been on the other side of the ledger. Is it that they're getting more penalties called? Yes. That's what he means? Yeah, he means that they have had calls go against them where he thinks they shouldn't. You know, we got the 5-1 clip or whatever it is.

All right, you know what? I'm there. I hate his guts. All right. Two games. Who right two games two games i hate his guts i do too that's just right now by the way i know he's a lovely guy i'm told he's a spectacular dude and like sure he coached the leafs he was great and like you know i loved you in years past ready to hit him right now yeah not a fan of the man not Not a fan. I think the, my biggest complaint, you know, we're not the ref show. And so we won't do it for too long. No. But my biggest complaint is penalties are three nothing for the Leafs.

The score is two one for the Leafs. So the refs will not. They stopped. Call penalties as they happen. There was at least four to five infractions in between that time and they're like we can't be the was it uh ralphie i guess on the radio made some comment like you know florida's gonna not gonna get called for anything that doesn't involve an axe was jim's line god yeah i don't know i just it's the reffing game management thing it it's a real sticking point for a lot of people.

I don't think it's the time or place to necessarily discuss that. But it is frustrating when the whistles go away. And I will say they missed a few on the Leafs too after that moment. I thought the Leafs could have gotten out of that game with more than one penalty as well. But they've got to have the Rives above it. I think the bigger question here is Sergey Bobrovsky, who I've had this, have you had the graph sent to you yet? Yeah, you sent it, yeah.

He has had his best two-game stretch in any point of any season with the Florida Panthers these last two games. Oh, I haven't seen that graph. With goals above expected. Oh, I've just seen the goals above expected. Saves above expected, I should i should say so saved above expected it's been his best two-game stretch of his florida panthers that's awesome that's awesome so last night we did i know i shouldn't reference it a thousand times but we did do leaf stock and the first thing that i

talked about my takeaway from last night which you can read my article on, should be up right now, is the idea that the Leafs had two rebound chances last night. Just two. You know, out of their 25 slot shots. And, you know, Florida has some butchers, as you like to say. Absolute butchers. Like Gutis, butcher. You know, what's his name? Stahl.

Stahl's a butcher. Ekblad. Ekblad, butcher. So standing in front of their nets not as fun as standing in against perbix and cole and yeah uh whoever else they had to forget that series but not it's like it honestly feels like a lifetime i know it's a different world yeah so it's not as fun to be there and now they need to be there i have felt that the leafs have been very happy to play this sort of trade opportunities the The Leafs had eight odd man rushes to Florida's two last night.

It's going to come down to now you have to treat Bobrovsky like you thought he was Vasilevsky. Screens, rebounds, fall on him. The play has to all happen directly in front of him because he's playing too well right now. Yeah, I still feel like they are filtering it a lot from the point, but like Kipper alluded to there, and like you've said, they really are doing a great job of clearing the front of the net.

Yeah, it's one and done. And Maurice clearly would have scouted that series in his, you know, 10 minutes between series that they got. He would have been looking at, hey, we can't let this happen to us. We have to let our goalie see it. And they're doing a great job of it. And frankly, in the playoffs, they're getting away with murder in front of the net, which is what happens. I mean, like you're cross-checking your body and people.

You're slamming people's heads into the ice without any suspensions or whatever. So they're getting away with murder. And they know the line. And frankly, when you have a league where there's the management or the game management or whatever yeah you know once you get a few penalties in a row your ability to clear the front of the net you say it as a coach yeah as a coach you go in the room you're like listen we got a little bit leeway it's called four on us here you know we're not getting five in a row called on us so go out there and clear the front of the net and don't be afraid to use your stick don't be afraid to knock some guys down like that's part of it and i let's play off hockey i understand it so i really we talked about it but

god you just gotta bear down and score a couple of those chances yeah well that's really what it comes down to you're paid a lot of money yeah and like you can talk about how good he was but you're guys who make 40 million dollars combined big four, the whole thing that this is built around, have to be able to convert some of their grade A's that they had last year. It's actually really funny because we spend a lot of time being like, you know, you got to defend and be in your position and structure and whatever. Offense, you can't really control offense. Great players do great things.

It's sort of, you know, at some point, you have to have your feet held to the fire when you make 11 million bucks 10 million bucks and you get grade a chances and you don't score and for a lot of players you go look i'm getting these chances they'll generally go in for me i'm pretty good at that well they need to go in now and tavarez is probably who we're both talking about yeah he gets that pass from below the goal line from willie piece of pad cross bar and out and it's this close and he gets a breakaway and it's this close and we need one there yeah absolutely like it's you can talk about how close it is and how you're getting chances but you are elite elite in front of the net and you

need to show it in a big game like that and it's amazing how different the conversation would be yeah right one of those goes in two of those goes in they win of those goes in, they win the game. You're talking about like, that's why it's such a cruel sport in the playoffs. It's that on a nice edge. It is. And so one of the things that I mentioned in my article today was just like, we talk about how the Leafs put themselves in a position in round one to get lucky, air quotes. You know, you do the things that help you get lucky, which is you don't make big mistakes and give them other,

other team glaring chances, which keeps you in close games, which they've exclusively done in this series. Right. That's right. Made, made those big mistakes. You know, they, you get in front and you tip pucks and you screen the goalie and hope you get lucky and he doesn't see one or it goes off your leg or whatever. Did that well in the first series, you put yourself in a position, people call it creating luck or whatever, and there is luck involved, but you put yourself in a position people call it creating luck or whatever and there is luck involved but you put yourself in a position to be lucky enough you get lucky sometimes and the Leafs have not put themselves in a position to get lucky

because they've made the glaring mistakes the turnovers you know not a huge problem but against a team like this they're gonna burn you yeah they're they have some really skilled players they have just sneaky good. For Hagee getting behind Lilligren last night again, like he gets behind you. That's what, and they talked, he talked about that Keefe when they gave him a breakaway. The one guy.

The one guy. Yeah. And they did it again. Yeah. So I. The Florida Panthers lead the playoffs in goals within five seconds of a turnover. Two of them qualified last night.

So they now have nine goals within five seconds of a turnover two of them qualified last night so they now have nine goals within five seconds of a turnover next best is vegas toronto with five toronto has two so you know they're a quick strike team and so how many does florida have nine oh my god i know they've only played eight games no i guess nine games that's remarkable it is so this is the you know you talk kipper talked about the minute and six seconds at the start of the second period and you have that lull and to me they have the lull because they played so well in the first that they're like we're up to one we got them now like we're humming and they were they were and so let's listen to sheldon keith talk about how they came out to start that second period at the very first clip there brando disappointing and baffling

disappointing baffling frankly became me to make those mistakes one time in the last series not once i i know you did but you got bailed out yeah you got bailed out and i i don't know because it's so hard to sit here and say two of your best guys on your team turning the puck over in the sweet spot is coaching it'd be a really tough thing to say but what is it with the starts to periods like that sometimes it happens does that happen to every team we just watch the leafs every night is it but it just feels like it happens so often yeah like is it a motivation thing is it like it just feels like it happens so often yeah like is it a motivation thing is it like what are you saying to them like I don't people are sick of me saying this when it can be easy and I just feel like that would be an opportunity where you're

rolling and no we got him now you know like we're at home we're gonna win the second game of 7-2 like we did last round yeah and just took the pedal off or you know foot off the pedal a little bit Nylander gets stripped who by the way we can talk about his game i thought he was tremendous outside of that moment yeah and you know marner instead of skating it out of the zone drop pass in zone which he does all the time so effectively yeah put matthews in a tough spot matthews instead of just trying to do something safe with it try to make a cute chip and it's a weird play that he made just shot it right into his gut yeah it goes back the other way so if i were gonna ask you to let's just say power rank the problems here going down to nothing going to florida because i think it's been pretty clear that the least have been the better team through both of these games i think the obvious tampa i'm sorry florida was better in the first

game but last night there's no question what do you think what's the first thing that worries you other than being down too well i guess that's maybe it no the first thing that worries me is the goalie duel which is not just that bobrovsky's playing really well but samson's making a lot of saves, but if every game there's one that makes you go, ugh, it's really tough to win. And so he has proven to be an ugh guy once in a while here in the postseason, and I just am worried that the Leafs can play great, but if he gives them the ugh every night, it's trouble. I hate, I do hate the goalie conversation because I feel. Helpless. I feel like it's, and I feel like it is a little bit of low-hanging fruit. It is.

For sports fans and hockey fans in general to be like, ah. Stop the puck, goalie. Blame the goalie. Yeah. And, you know, he's screened on that second one a little bit, and it's a bit of a. The Barkov one. It's a bit of a flutter puck, drops a bit on him, but it's just. I understand, but I'm just not.

It's. Stop it. It's got to be saved. He has let, what did i say that he's let in so far in eight games the 26 goals yeah he's like i don't fault him for the cross ice forzling goal no i don't but he's oh yeah or the other one the behind the net tavara's fall lilligran's bad reverse yada yada still has to be better yeah and it's pretty clear here that last series he was playing against a goalie who there's some quotes coming out that saying he wasn't 100 you know he's fighting it he's played a lot of hockey he was a better goalie in the last series but that it wasn't hard to be the best goalie in

that other series because vasileski killed the lightning he was terrible do you think samson off cares that bobrorovsky's playing well? Why don't we hear the clip from Samsonov on what he thinks about Sergey Bobrovsky? We don't have it, apparently. But I will tell you that the clip from Samsonov is very short, and he says,

I don't give a F word. Yeah. I don't care. He's doing his work, I'm doing mine. That's essentially the whole quote. And I love that answer. I'm just digging up the quote here as i have it on my computer i don't know where that went anyways do you not love that answer though from him just being like don't care don't care at all trust tree time let's have it i liked it last night the more i think about it i'm just putting it in for Derek to play it here. Okay.

Because I think it's good just to hear the tone of voice. It didn't show us, Derek. If you want to play it there, it should show up now. I didn't love it. Why? Because you should give a F. I don't know. You should give an F.

And you should elevate your game. You have to elevate your game. You're the goalie. That's the one thing you can control is being better than the other goalie. And, you know, you should give an F about how he's playing. I don't give a ****. Yeah. There it is.

Give it to us again. I don't give a ****. Yeah. Okay. And Mark Masters followed up by being like, why not? I know. What an awful line. And he said, he has his work.

I have my work. Yeah. I think that's fair. I don't think it's Samsonov's job to be like, it's pretty incredible. He's doing great. You know, the old Tim Thomas to Luongo. It's not my job to pump his tires. Like, I'm fine with Samsonov being, I'm going to stay in my lane.

Yeah, I guess. But I do think that he should care. Yeah. No, it's like playing match play. And it's like, you know, do you care that the other golfer's playing great? No, you should. Yeah, you probably should. You have to adjust your game a bit here.

You might have to, you know, make one or two putts. Yeah. So, I just, I do have worries about the goaltending. So, if I'm going to power rank that, I don't want to say it's one, but it's heading towards one. Yeah. I think the lack of ability to finish on Bobrovsky

and the not putting in the chances would be pretty high on the list too. So that's my net front in scoring is two on my list, which is tied to this, obviously. Which is just they haven't lived in that area the same way the last game they won against tampa they had five scoring chances off rebounds you know they haven't had that in this series yet against florida so and i think one that is kind of maybe not going untalked about everything's talked about closely here but just the defensive depth is also on my list a big worry to me lilligran and geo is a pair

bad struggle fish they're bad yeah and you put hall with geo and it's been bad and you're gonna put in gustafson into this series against a really high flying offensive team who's really good on the forecheck well that's thing you're up one goal do you want to put geo or gustafson over the boards not it's obviously geo in that situation they have a lot of like okay guys outside of morgan riley and i know not every team has six really good defensemen in fact no team has six really good defensemen but i do especially florida especially florida but i do feel like it's really sort of manifesting itself here and a big concern with you know brody and mccabe not playing up to their usual standard is a huge issue for the leafs at least need those guys to be really good for them to win this series or go further or want

to win a cup you're gonna need that your top shutdown pair to look like it i thought they were better last night i guess but mccabe makes the error like like kipper said and he's supposed to be yeah shannon riley been great there's nothing you can say about them they've done what you need them to do they've been good but man the defensive warts have been worrying me yeah i would say the biggest one so you know lilligren going back on pucks when you see a four checker within a stick length of him and you're going back on pucks i feel like as a viewer i can be like this puck's about to get stopped and you know what i mean by stopped like just not moved off the boards or moved across it's just it's they're gonna be in a puck battle because he just he's panicking with the pressure behind him

and not able to make a play with it and so that's a big. Because now anything in his corner feels like it's a Florida possession. Yeah. And they really killed him on the board check last night. Yeah. And one of their goals comes straight off of that. And I don't really know what he's going to do in that play. Like he gets buried. Puck comes off his stick.

I guess make a quicker decision. Geo is on the board side. If he just wants a little chip up the boards. And he reverses it behind your net. Which is already a dangerous play. Coaches tell you not to make and Tavares blows up the shoe and then Gio's caught out of position because

who would have anticipated that? It's just a comedy of errors. Worst case scenario, like in all regards. And Samsonov, the whole thing could not have gone worse. That's a great pass. That's a great pass. They executed on it. They took advantage of an opportunity and that, you can say that for Florida, is they

took advantage of their chances last night. So, looking ahead to, I mean, do you want to hear from Keefe today? Talked about Giordano. He did a little Zoom today. Nice little throwback to COVID times, which I really loved him doing a Zoom meeting.

So, if we get K get Keith on Giordano. Obviously, the Giordano and Hall pairing was one that didn't play, you know, to the level that it established itself, both in last season's playoffs and in the regular season. So we changed the chemistry up there a little bit and feel like we had some good shifts and good results in game one. It always went the same in game two. You know, again, with each individual player, you look at their game, you look at a lot of things that are happening around them as well. But, you know, it's with all our players and certainly being down two in a series, I think, you know, we'll look at everything. We'll discuss everything.

And we do have time here for, for rest and recovery and practice and all the things that normally you're not afforded in a, in a, in a playoff series. So, you know, we'll look at some things there and see how that impacts the geo and

the rest of our group. He, he did mention geo at the end there on his own. Sounds like 11 and seven to me. Well, yeah, I think that's the right spot to have that conversation nize is out so you don't have to sit anyone lafferty i thought was useful yeah good for check uh contributed to the first goal so i don't think aston reese goes in i think it's hall's going in hall's dressing next game for sure yes for sure so it's just a matter of if Lilligren comes out.

There's a world to me where Lilligren comes out, Hall and Gustafsson go in, and, you know, see if you're behind chasing the game, you see a lot more Gustafsson protecting the lead. You see a lot more Geo. And then, you know, you're going to see a lot of Matthews and Marner and different, especially on the road where they can't match you. You love being able to say, you know, Marner's getting a shift with camp and kerfoot or something which happened with two minutes left in the game last

night which i didn't people didn't like you but i thought the fourth line was so good for them last night that i could i was fine with giving everyone a breather and i just the geo thing i can understand from their perspective and in a vacuum and us sitting here on the radio it's so easy to be like take geo out i know it's like he's been bad like we can all sit here and have a real conversation about how his speed could not respect the man anymore his feet no good his gap control is struggling to break the puck out he's icing it three times a game it hasn't been good yeah but on the team side of this where you're with the guys every day, what he's meant to this team, what he means to the roster, what he means to the team.

Leader, does the right things. I just, I would like him to come out of the lineup. And I love the guy. But he's just not going to. But you know what? He, for him, the Leafs play two games in the next seven days. Yeah. Which is wild.

I know. They play in three days, then three days, then they'll have a day off, and then two days. So you're looking at it the next week, they're going to play twice. It's going to help him. It's going to help older guys like Tavares and O'Reilly. I don't think anyone matters on Florida who's old. You know, Eric Stahl, whatever.

Yeah, he plays four minutes a night. Yeah, Mark Stahl, sure, is he old now he old now whatever you know maybe it helps him a bit i think if you're looking and i am searching and digging for every positive possible going into a series where you're down 20 going on the road i think the day off here actually really could work in favor of the least for some of the reasons you just put out there. But I do think it gives a couple days for the narrative to change. We talk about how the Leafs

perform better when they're in trouble. When they have had a little whack on the wrist. Yes. They're going to be dogged for two days here. Full days of them hearing about how their second round curse is here now like it's and i think it gives them a chance to kind of regroup have a day off like he was saying

today get down there practice actually i bet you they don't even they don't go until saturday evening yeah i don't know practice here tomorrow morning fly out and then have the game sunday i doubt they're going down early today but i don't think you're looking to give the boys an extra day on the beach this time correct yeah uh i also think that it gives a little bit of a chance for this unbelievable cats momentum to kind of peter out a little bit yeah where they've been on the road they're playing every other night they're in these really high intensity games where it's just like do it's been do or die for them for yeah how long now like a week and a half like they've played how many games in the last 10 days it feels like they've played every other night they go down there they're like we're up to nothing we're fine they kind of have a let off and the Leafs can get back into this

series I do think that there's a chance for their momentum to run out a little it's like running in the city you run for 5k and then you hit a traffic light and you have to stop. And it's just like, I think I'm just stopped. I don't think I'm going to start again. I got a slice of pizza to walk home. I don't think I'm going to keep running. Like, I don't, it's a very, you know, very narrative-y mojo kind of conversation. So?

But there's no way that doesn't play into this a little bit where there's a like you switch it over onto their side the self-satisfaction yeah there's no like it's human nature yeah that can creep in and the Leafs have to take advantage of that going down there where they have their back against the wall and the cats have a little bit of they have a chance to take their foot off the gas a little it'd be interesting to be on the bus with those guys are on the plane whatever and hear how they talk about this leaves team because let's be real they got pumped last game yes and they're getting blown up too like guys there's some big hits out there it's soft hockey for yeah like i don't think they're sitting there going this is awesome you know like they're

we stole some some wins up there yeah so i'm just i think it's a really blessing in disguise for them to have the extra day yeah and just listen And just listen to the radio a little bit, fellas. For sure. Read the, you know, when you tell people not to read the press clippings, read them. Yeah. See what people are saying about you. This year for you and how easy it's going to be now. This is not, if they go down there, they lose on Sunday.

And they go out with threes. And if they, you know know god forbid the brooms come out this is this conversation is not going to be like oh well they did it this conversation like jobs are still going to be on the line here well i said i said as much earlier that you know the first round thing was imperative for keith for dubas whatever but if you beat the the lightning then you'll get swept by florida i don't know how it's better is it oh it's better but is it how much better it's not and not that much better i mean listen florida blew their team up last year after the exact same thing happened yeah second round is gone see ya you know their star players traded everything which was what a great trade by bill zito great

trade unbelievable trade and people made fun of them for that trade and that was they got by far the best player in that trade and it was an amazing looks good now i know we we have one thing to do do you want to kneel under it later because we got to talk about let's let's do let's do kneel under now my two cents i just i was really hard on him in the first game uh without the puck i thought he was the best player on the ice last night. I know he had the turnover. His zone entries and not just like the numbers of times

he did it, the control, the plays he made. He set Tavares up three times. He walked in and took shots. He was dominant for me last night. You want to hear his head coach talk about that? I very much do. Okay, there we go. Keith on Willie. Well, in the third period, William was a dominant player.

He was the best player on the ice rider team by a mile, I thought. Really took control of the game and created a number of looks for me and his line mates. Obviously, was unable to get it to go over the line for us. That is the next step and obviously the ultimate goal. But the way that William took charge of the game in the third period obviously shows what he's capable

of doing and what we need more of. That's what pisses people off about Willie. I was just going to say, if I'm Keefe watching that third period, I'm not happy. I'm mad. I'm mad. I'm like, where have you been right you've that guy dominated i don't know no one else got to play no he had to puck the entire time he was on the ice watching my six-year-old when there's this one select kid that has it the

whole game i'm like can we get him out of here so everyone else can play because i would pass he just dominated and he haven't like even in in the first round, he was good for stretches, but that whatever, how many minutes he played in the third period, eight minutes of hockey played in the third period was by far his best hockey. When he's going, he's going,

he's going, he's going. So you really hope that heading down to Florida, you get that again, because if you get that again, you probably win game three. I would guarantee it. You see another game like that. you probably win game three i would guarantee it you see another game like that they'll win game three i promised mess i wouldn't do this oh my

god guaranteeing all right uh it's time for playoff picks presented by bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds so i do my little check-ins i I bet all my money on Florida in game three. Okay. My family's in peril. I am rich. What about the family? I am rich off the Panthers. You are. I am chock full of money.

You've been hedging from game one and two? Yeah, I did. So early to get hedgy. I wouldn't have. I mean, I can tell the story about how I obviously hedged big time on Tampa going into game six. Yes. So I hedged big time. Yeah. Like more than I'd be willing to tell my mom how much I hedged big time on Tampa going into game six. Yes. So I hedged big time. Yeah.

Like more than I'd be willing to tell my mom how much I hedged. Like I hedged a lot. And then I went into overtime. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm doubling down on this hedge. And so then I was like, oh, I lost. I didn't even look at my account. Did not care.

Did not think about it, obviously. Went in on Monday to to check my to check the odds for our segment and i had more money than i was like what the hell i accidentally bet on the lease going into overtime so not only did the least get the win he missed bet on the lease and cash and i cashed so i had more money than i expected so i was like okay well more money than expected i'm gonna go for game one hedge here obviously hit well got a lot of money in my account i'm gonna go for a hedge again i now have more money in the all right well you need to the cats are making some of that out and not just

keep piling it on because at least they're gonna win a hockey match here we'll see some point so i looked at the the cup favorites i looked at the cup favorites they are now the florida panthers are the cup favorite baffled just what is the other disappointed and baffled to hear that how could i think it's valid yeah how could you not there's some there's some juice the narrative is very nice then they trade to become like a heavier team and they just beat the bruins yeah they've won two they won how many games in the road they won five won five games in a row against boston and toronto four of which were on the road yeah i think it's a valid and so the leafs now have gone down to plus 800 the second worst odds tempting nice oh i'm tempted and the worst odds of course is the

seattle cracking at plus 1350 even though they're 1-1 they got no belief in the poor squids um no players in the top 50 in the league so next thing is the panthers odd this is what made me sad i looked at like the panthers odds so after game four like the series score after game four panthers to sweep is down to plus 310 yeah okay well i wouldn't touch that that's scary yeah seeing a number that low you look at that number and you're hoping to be like plus 1100 yeah it's plus, oh, it's plus 300. Like, I think it's kind of like,

I got to, you know, I, as a player, you know, I've played in, you know, for,

I would say 10 good years of playoff runs where you have a moment. I won the championship. One of those 10 years, but you have a moment in all the other years. You're like, oh yeah. You know, like we're in the third period where this is,

we're in trouble. Like you suddenly have the first thought of summer vacation yeah truly like on the bench you're like god what am i gonna do you know all right back in the game oh yeah but like i just as you were reading me that i had my first like god the Leafs are almost out like what does that do for the show okay all right willie uh willie's already thinking about the world championship all right and the last one for you here uh I feel like the Devils have bounced back tonight, which I kind of do. And Andre Palat scored a lot of big goals

for them. Yes. So a little same game parlay cooked up. Palat goal, Jack Hughes with two points and the Devils to win is 10 to 1.

10 to 1. So there you go. That's a little long shot bet if you're looking for something on a Friday. All right. That was Playoff Picks presented by Bet365.

Visit the app for the latest odds. And that was our first segment. We will be back after the break. We're going to talk with Mike Rupp and Justin Cuthbert, our morning show host. Looking forward to that. So we'll get started with Ruppert after the break.

Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports. The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. We're going to be joined momentarily by Mike Rupp, NHL Network Analyst, former NHLer, 609 games, and Stanley Cup champion.

Did I say this on air already about Simmons? No. Oh, the amount of people in my mentions be like, get Simmons in there, get Bennett. Get Simmons in there? He's been playing a month, it's the fastest team. Like, you have 11 forwards, and one of them's going to be sims how many minutes is he gonna play three yeah and that's uh you know love and respect for wayne simmons in his career but nothing but this ain't the time like what is

bennett gonna give him that fight i was no then it's gonna look at him be like yeah right yeah busy playing in the series the top line yeah like are you kidding me yeah that that's not a worthwhile suggestion i get being unhinged. I've been unhinged many times in my life. That is an unhinged take from Leaf fans today. I was actually going to get your take on something that's really going under the radar because he's not a huge piece that they rely on. But David Camp's not been anything. No, they're not getting a ton.

Like, it's kind of the same thing happening. They're not getting a ton, ton from like. Except old Flex Seal. Yeah. All a ton ton from like except old flex seal yeah all-star that was a great goal last night trying to empty that hayden you know i said they had two rebound chances there's one yeah i know they're just not getting a ton from a lot of guys yeah it comes down to like yarn crocs giving them nothing well i am curious you know we talked a little bit last night about time on ice um yarn croc played what eight minutes or something last night 720 i mean that's pretty ridiculous so uh i believe we have uh mike rup rup are you with us yeah i'm here welcome we're doing good we're doing good thanks for joining us today uh i catfish grubber i didn't

tell him kipper wasn't here today oh really stuck with me i catfish oh tough bounce rup we got sam mckee on the other side of the glass today it's okay it's all it's all good i uh i was a little i was a little slippery yesterday i was supposed to be on you guys so i apologize for that so glad to connect here today for sure and we really appreciate your time you know we we really wanted to get your take on what's going on here uh up in toronto where you know the team finds itself down 0-2 to the Florida Panthers. Leafs hung around pretty good last night, but wound up on the wrong side of the result.

What are your thoughts on the early games in Florida and Toronto? From the Panthers' standpoint, they're fierce right now. They're forechecked, they're pressure game. They're kind Like their forecheck, their pressure game. I mean, they're kind of getting back to a little bit of hockey 101, and it's all about forecheck, and we're seeing the same thing in the Western Conference with Seattle as far as just kind of disrupting things by just everybody being on the same page. And around that forecheck, I mean, the game's changed in a lot of ways, but a good hard forecheck where everyone's connected, game's changed a lot of ways but a good hard

four check where everyone's connected it's it could do a lot of damage and create some turnovers so um i got to give them a ton of credit i think they've been playing a great blend of hockey that we've seen over the last number of weeks um but from the toronto standpoint like i get it it's bad going down oh two going to south florida i don't find it to be all doom and gloom. A lot of these things, especially in game two yesterday, these are controllable things. Their puck management's got to be better. And, I mean, it's just they're getting chances. I mean, I don't think that if you're – we always talk about it in hockey, right?

Like, if you're not getting the chances, that's when you're concerned. If that's individually or collectively, they getting chances i mean they're still a great skilled team that can turn things around i i think they do in this series i i don't see this to um at some point they're going to break through offensively and but i just they've got to stop shooting themselves in the foot you know and i find that that the game management has been a little bit of an issue so far in this series yeah it's probably the number one thing rupper and to me the florida panthers are just the perfect you know exemplification that's a big word for me there of momentum in the playoffs it's just the way that they're rolling right now to them and the way

they're talking in post-game media scrums and the way they're talking in pre-game stuff and the way they play on the ice they just kind of feel like they don't think anything can go wrong for them right now. Is that, do you feel that with them too? Yeah. You know, and it kind of gives me a little bit of a, a little bit of PTSD with back in my career with 2012 when I was at the Rangers and all season long, we were a top end team. We were battling out with Van for the president's trophy and we played New Jersey in the in the Eastern Conference Finals and for

six months seven months I mean we were absolutely by far a better team than them but at that juncture of the season in the playoffs they just were rolling and on playoff hockey it's weird because players we see individually that aren't probably someone that would maybe i don't know scare you as far as the lineup goes with really kind of hurting you in the way they play with just even offensively or anyway right like you don't pay attention to certain players. And all of a sudden this player is like a factor, every shift, every game. And it's just when teams get rolling like that, it's dangerous. And, and again, use those same words I used before connected, you know,

united everything they're doing is it just kind of rolls. And it's like, you know what the shift is going to look like before you get out there. That's just best playoff hockey. Whenever we see some of these Cinderella, I guess, stories, it's stuff like that. So, yeah, it just seems like they've kind of gone, they're playing the right brand of hockey at the right time,

just like the Devils did back in 2012. And it's tough, but, you uh, it's not unbreakable. You know, I think that it's just, you gotta make sure that you're not giving them any free passes. They got to earn everything. And at the end of the day, if you lose to that, yeah, it still stings, but at least you can kind of tip your cap to that. But, uh, I think sometimes the frustration sets in, like you sit there and think, well, we know we're better than them. Then you start getting out of character a little bit. You start overstretching yourself.

And I think that's the slippery slope this Leafs team is going to have to deal with. So I want to get your take on this, Robert, because you've played in a ton of NHL playoff games with the road versus home record stuff that's happening right now. And it's unprecedented, I think, through the first couple rounds of this playoffs, how many gate teams are winning on the road. But what is it? Did you prefer being on the road, prefer being at home?

What do you think it is about that that's so weird this year? I loved playing at home in the playoffs. There's nothing like it. I mean, that's what you remember the most as far as the energy, all those things. But I do think that at times it's hard to funnel your emotions the right way. I think that there's teams in the playoffs this year that have gotten into penalty trouble in games like that because you're all jacked up.

You're feeding off the crowd. It's home. Everything is escalated. And sometimes there's a little bit of a power struggle, I think in your brain of what, what's right and what you just want to flow with, right. And go with. And so I like playing at home,

obviously more in the playoffs, but the road seemed to be a little easier because you're going and, and you're just consumed with, I mean, everything is revolving around it. It is at home too, but there's, I hate to use family as distress distractions. I mean, everything is revolving around it. It is at home too, but there's, I hate to use family as distractions. I mean, it's your family,

but you're not so, you're not so, you know, you're in a, you're in a little, little cocoon when you're on the road in the playoffs. And it's like, you're watching other playoff games on your nights off. You're eating together. You're, you know, getting extra work with your, with the trainers. You're, everything is geared around getting rest for your game, and it's just focusing on it and kind of owning it. So I found that it was a little bit easier,

and plus you're not supposed to have success on the road. It's a little easier, less pressure. So I don't know why this year's numbers are so crazy. I don't know what to kind of put on that, but, you know, just when I played it, put it this way i love starting series on the road because i feel like it allows you to kind of there's no pressure there and you can also kind of you know get a big win if you get a big win on the road in the first two games like i feel like that changes everything for sure and you know one

thing that makes a big swing is just like a couple of bounces can go a long way you're on the road you don't have to be the better team but you luck one or two in all of a sudden you're feeling good pretty good about yourself you know i i sometimes feel like i straddle two camps because i'm into analytics and numbers and all that and i can tell you that the leafs have outchanced and outperformed and should score and yada yada the last few games but i also played in the minors and i've been told my whole life about earning your luck and the leafs have been unlucky in the first couple games where do you weigh in on how you earn your luck and if you can even earn luck um yeah no i think you can i mean that's uh obviously when we always say that you can you earn your bounces or you yeah you you

play the right way you're going to get the bounces. I mean, clearly that's not a proven thing. Like, we just think that way. Like, you just continue to do the right things. Eventually it's going to go for you. But I think a lot of times it's in the playoffs. You can be feeling good about yourself. The numbers could speak to feeling good about your team game

as far as even shot volume. I hope we're at a stage in our hockey consumerism now where we don't put so much onus on shots on goal. I think we've learned now where the shots are coming from and all those things. Those things really matter. But it's about getting to that middle of the ice. And I think that's where you feel like you can earn the bounces. Cause you can shoot, you can shoot the puck.

You can get 75 shots on goal in a game. And if they're from the outside, I mean, you might score one or two zero. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? So you got to get to those areas. We see so many going off of the opponent's skates. You know, we get double deflections. I mean, that's where you earn bounces. You keep going to those areas and battling for that that part of the ice and that's where i think you can earn some bounces so i want to ask you about matthew kachuk and what we've seen out of him here because the toronto media has been all over him in terms of propping him up and i don't know if you saw

maurice yesterday but he said they're not the best line in the history of hockey. But I think this guy has really sort of elevated himself into the conversation of one of the elite elite. Like, I think he was before, but what this playoff run has done for him so far, like, I think at the, you know, remember when we all said that, oh, is Claude Giroux better than Sidney Crosby? Remember when we all had that conversation, that one playoff run? Yes.

Like, I really do feel that there's going to be some people saying that he is one of the top five guys in the league when it's all said and done if they do get past the Leafs. Yeah, so I don't know how you measure this, but this is how my brain works is we all would probably agree

Connor McDavid's the most talented player in the NHL in the world. Agreed, yeah. You know, you can go on and on, argue who's number two and all those great things. But for me,

there's like this fake category of top players that influence the game and like that doesn't that doesn't mean in general that means every single night ways that that player can influence the game to win i think a perfect example of that is how highly regarded patrice bergeron's been in his career now patrice bergeron is not a hundred point guy he's not a 120 guy like he's not going to hang there, but as far as influencing the game in his prime years, like, I mean, he influenced it just as well as anybody else. Magic Chuck obviously can get the a hundred plus points, but he influences it in so many other ways.

Another guy to go back to Boston that I've kind of thrown in this category over the years is I felt like a Brad Marchand influences games every single night as a, so if you were to say, all right, on this, any given night, Brad Marchand was a prime factor of his team winning this game. I put his numbers. He'd be influencing games for the Boston Bruins, almost like Connor McDavid and Edmonton, totally different ways in doing it, but it just, it could be his penalty killing. It could be his block shots. He could be getting under his skin. It could be drawing penalties. It could be scoring. I mean, this guy, it's just his energy he brings. That's kind of like

Matthew Kachuk for me. He can put up four points. Doesn't need to. He could still be the best player on the ice and have zero points. So that's a unique blend. And in that kind of mystical category for me he influences games just as much as any other player in the National Hockey League What's the complaint here is that the superstars, a guy like Nylander he'll be nowhere to be seen for 10 games at Amazing or

Marner, he's had some pretty good quiet runs here in the playoffs and not able to impact the game all the time. Someone like a Chuck, then, if you're defending a guy like that or playing against them, how do you shut him down? I asked this to Kipper yesterday, but like more engagement or less? I would think less. I would think it's one of those guys that you want to, I guess, sleep.

I don't know if Matthew Chuck will ever sleep, but I don't think you want to, I guess, sleep. I don't know if Matthew Kachuk will ever sleep, but I don't think you want to. Those are the type of players that when they want to engage you verbally or physically, don't do it. I think that's the only way because he gets stronger in those moments and he's able to do more. But that's the crazy thing about it. Okay, maybe he feels that, so he backs off that a little bit. And then he, again, this is a player that I thought last year, him getting his a hundred points,

he wasn't gonna be able to do that again because he was on the best line in hockey last season in Calgary and he had a better season this year. Right. Like I don't, I don't understand it. And he, he can do it other ways. And, but yeah, I think he got think you gotta you know you don't want to play his type of game like that um it's it's you try to kind of ignore it and move on but i think it's hard because then he'll just turn and do something else no kidding well rapper we really appreciate your insight on all this stuff we're looking forward to see if they can uh figure him and brovsky out in the games ahead. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks, Robert.

All right. Thanks, Charles. Thanks so much. That is Mike Rupp, NHL analyst for NHL Network. There he goes. Doink. 15 points in nine games so far for Matthew Kachuk. You know what's funny, though? Do you have his elite prospects page open? Is that what you're looking at?

I'm just looking at his hockey. He has his playoff stats, though, year yeah this is by far as typically has not been a great playoff performer yeah and i remember the year they lost to the oilers he's bad last year was it last year yeah he scored in the first game and then he didn't score again and quiet like you know rupper talked about like his ability to impact the play he just kind of stopped playing to be fair they were pretty overwhelmed in that series. They were, but maybe he's a foot out the door as well, which is not a good compliment to any player, I don't think,

if you let that lead into your game. He had 110 points this year. Yeah. Did he really? Yeah, it's just, like I said to you yesterday, the word that comes to mind for him and he was like it again last night it's just he's relentless there's never a shift where he's just like not breathing down your throat and i think rupper i asked that question and i don't think

he could have laid it out any better than he did in terms of guys that just influence the games in different ways for sure and i think of you know like i actually don't put him in the class obviously of um of kachuk but a guy like that is cologne to me yeah tampa where just he went long stretches without scoring but you're just like god this guy is really annoying yeah he's in your face he's on top of the goal he's good defensively he's all over the ice i mean matthews is the closest thing the leafs have to that in that he can block shots and win puck battles defensively yes there's no question he is elite defensively but he's not he lacks the physical element that you're talking about calorn marchand kachuk like that type of guy yeah i guess maybe ryan o'reilly would be the closest to yeah to that his finish on marner's

beautiful pass last night? Yeah, it's nice to see him score a goal, and it would have been really nice for that to be the winning goal in the hockey game. It certainly would have. You know, I do, not to circle back on the goaltending and, you know, beat up on it, but, like, they at least have scored two goals

in three straight games, which is not nearly enough. They won one of those three games. Yeah. You know, some playoff games are 2-1 yeah they won game six 2-1 that when samson off played great that was enough there's allowed to be low scoring games and i think in a reverse you know and if we're going back to the space time continuum here again that i referenced earlier i think if you make that save on that flutter puck from the top of the circle you get that save you get a face off you kind of slow things down there's a world where the least win that game two one yeah because they really really were great in all facets from

that point on so like i know you got to score more than two goals usually to win a hockey game but like you can't win a game two one yeah no it's it's an option for sure and it was as disheartening as it was sammy to beat up i hate beating up on him because he won them like he won them their first round in 20 years i know it's great he was unbelievable have you done for me lately but yeah but like i kind of want to go a little further yeah and he's not very good in the first two games of the series no we have lots to cover in the next block i want to talk about more about knives you got a nice oh i pulled the kipper i pulled the kipper we got more on nice yes um and we'll talk about that we're going to be joined by justin cuthbert host of our morning show here which is exciting and we're going to take questions

uh text fan 90 or just text 59090. Yes, text 59590. Your takes on this series, your takes on anything, your takes on life. I'll read anything for you. We got a couple of tweets, too, out there that people responded 16,000 times to, which is good. People are engaged. Well, we are, too. Well, I know. We're engaged.

But, like, it really opens my eyes to, like, I guess, from a personal standpoint here, people care about the Leafs. Yeah, and you know what? Everyone said all season, regular season doesn't matter, regular season doesn't matter, and people treated it like it didn't. Yeah. And guess what?

It's not the regular season. The fans have flipped the switch just like the Leafs have. We're playing now. Oh, yeah. People want Wade Simmons in the lineup to fight relax anyways we'll talk to cutthroat we'll talk to cutthroat break it all down uh after the break breaking down the top stories in the nhl every day the jazz marys show subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van.

Welcome back to Real McKee and Born. The Real McKee. The Real McKee, the Real McCoy. Yeah, fantastic. I've been telling you about this having some cases of the olds here yeah my back is killing all right let me address this and i think i know why tell the people why because i stand for all the games mckee stands for the whole game or at least most of the game i stand for like always sitting at the start and then once the game gets into the second period it's close or whatever i'll i stand what is your living room

situation like is ally watching with you yeah sometimes and you're just standing does she think you're a complete psycho i stand like you know how like a you'd see like an old guy how you'd like see an old guy standing? Hands behind his back? How you'd see an old guy standing outside of Tim's? That's how I stand. Just in new balance. And a foot in front of my TV. I'm just sitting there like, yes, I am taking in what's happening here. I am as close to this as possible.

And my lower back is just barking. All right. We're joined by our boy, Justin Cuthbert. Man, thanks for coming on the show. We really appreciate it our boy, Justin Cuthbert. Man, thanks for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Hey, buddy. No problem. A question for Sammy.

Heard about, you know, the happiness hedging. Yes. Does that include betting on Vinny Viola's horse at the Kentucky Derby this weekend? Wow. I never even crossed my mind. But he's the favorite, right? What's his horse called? It's Forte. He is the favorite, I think. I mean I mean it's still a decent price I think it's like six seven

to one uh so you know he should name that horse hockey on Sunday that's what he should name his horse because Leaf fans are so unhinged they were like oh the owner got him to move the move the game so he could go to the race. No, they were hinged. They were reasonably hinged on that one. Oh, you think you're here for that take? Not for that's why, but that it's unacceptable. Oh, yeah. Not happy about it. Yeah, so we were just talking about Sammy standing up and watching the hockey games because he's weird and passionate.

How invested are you personally in this, or is it all a professional view for you? Good question. That is a good question, because, you know, there are a ton of Leaf fans working at this station, as I've sort of learned here in my transition starting last September. And I've never really bled blue. Like, I've always understood and really had a passion

for the conversation around the Maple Leafs, but I've never been someone who's lived and died with the success of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but being in media for the length of time that I have, I've been waiting for this run forever because as you both know, and everyone sort of understands that if the Leafs do well, it's beneficial for everyone. I've been, I've been waiting forever for, you know, the reaping the reward of that or at least

just like writing a different story or talking about the new storylines and round two as much as it's been kind of like oh do we really want to be here based on the start it's nice to talk about round two of the stanley cup playoffs involving the toronto maple leaf so it's not like fan hat leave that to alish but uh the Leaf and the Leaf conversation has always been like, you know, top three in terms of passions. So, I've not only, you know, turned my love, like I've loved the Toronto Maple Leafs my whole life, so I've turned

that, and I've turned it into like, not only my job, and my finances. So, I've tied literally everything. That's why I have to bet so much on the other team, because my whole life is tied to this team. Anyways, so Justin, heading in, we were just talking about this in the first segment here,

and I'll pose the question to you. What gives you the most worry heading into Game 3, and what gives you the most hope heading into Game 3? The most worry would be sort of the confidence point i think uh i mean we were talking about on the on the show all year that confidence really drives this team and i think it was shaken within the first what two three weeks of the season with mitch marner kind of being the face of all that and all of a sudden mitch marner goes on that what 30 game point streak and the confidence is oozing and he can't be stopped and it seems to permeate

the whole group and it seems like this team does kind of go up and down ride the roller coaster of confidence a little bit and hey what's more emblematic of that than their struggles in the playoffs up until this point and i guess now included in round two here i think the confidence probably has been shaken and the confidence when shaken has been a massive, massive issue. So that needs to sort of be rectified. I guess the confidence thing would be, or the,

what gives me, you know, hope that things will be a little bit different in game three is that Sergey Bobrovsky isn't this guy. I just think like, you know, we saw the, the charts floating around the expected goal stuff,

the two game samples. Yes. I understand. this has been a brilliant brilliant brilliant brilliant brilliant uh little start to the series here for sergey bobrovsky but this guy loses it as quick as he as he captures it he's lost his starting position every year since he's went to florida yes he can catch waves but how long is he going to be able to ride that wave I just can't see him being Fort Knox for the entire seven game series so I feel like eventually these pucks are going to get through and when they do there could be a rush of them and then hey maybe the confidence rushes back with it so breaking the dam would be very very important I think they were close to doing it in game two in the first period but he held in just enough to really find his center again

and that allowed florida to get on the board so getting to sergey brovsky is obviously the key right now and if they think they do that then you can kind of eliminate the big concern which is the confidence point yeah you mentioned that chart that's floating around with the expected goals saved above or what is it goals saved above expected thank what is it? Goals saved above expected. Thank you. I went to my analytics expert to say the words for me. But this has been his best two-game stretch as a Florida Panther. And the chart is, I wouldn't say it's going one way. There's some low dips along the other way. And, I mean, you've watched Florida play the Leafs.

You've watched Florida play other teams. He can be so bad. Like, like so so bad that you're right you just have to hope that this is gonna flip and that you have to bank on the fact that it is always flip with him but man it's just i've made this comparison the other night on leafs talk and i'll make it here this team's giving me 2015 kansas city royals vibes justin where it's just like they're catching lightning in a bottle. It's small sample size hockey, and he just is right on fire for the whole time. That's what scares me.

And you got to flip it for him, right? Like, let's say he's in control of this switch for whatever reason. It will take, you know, more than just clean looks and pressure and downhill running, if you want to call it that, like it was in the third period, it might take traffic. It might take what you did to get through Tampa. Like they have to be a little bit different. And I think the thing that's like most representative of the fact that,

yeah, he's clearly feeling it, is that Austin Matthews has seemed to try everything in his bag. And he's gotten chances because he's gone through the bag so far, and he can't seem to figure out any way through Sergei Bobrovsky. So it's got to come through other means, right? You know when you know Matthews really knows he can't score, he's fighting it, is when he tries that five-hole one. I like the GD five-hole switch.

I hate the five-hole one where he's just like, I guess maybe five-hole, I can't beat him anywhere else. And he tries to go five-hole from the dot. So you can really tell when he's fighting it. That's pretty good at work, though. Oh, yeah, it really is. What are your thoughts on A, the loss of Matthew Nyes and what it does to

the Toronto Maple Leafs lineup and the way that he was injured and the lack of repercussions from the league? Okay, so the loss, I've been thinking about this since we figured out, well, we knew he got a concussion and I think I knew when he was stumbling across the ice that he probably shouldn't have been back in the game but he was within a couple shifts.

But I've been thinking about it, and it's kind of like, it looks bad on management, doesn't it? Like, this guy has been this mercenary, right, where he's come in, he's been so impressive, he's given them life, and it's so great and such a thing to latch onto because it's so entirely new. I mean, you look at this team. Since John Tavares was put into place behind Austin Matthews in the depth chart, every single person on the roster is acquired through means other than draft and development. The guys that are here that have been drafted, like Timothy Lilligan,

well, there are problems at the end of the lineup, and you might sit them in game three because it's just not working with them. This is such a brand-new thing for Leaf fans to experience in this era, and it's really a bit of an indictment on the hockey operations department because they haven't been able to add someone like Matthew Nyes over and over and over again. What feeds a team like the Carolina Hurricanes? Well, it's Seth Jarvis coming up, and they have a conveyor belt of players

that come and lift the bottom, and it's just something that's completely foreign to this group, and that's why it's Seth Jarvis coming up and they have a conveyor belt of players that come and lift the bottom. And there's just something that's completely foreign to this group. And that's why it's been so great to see him come in and actually have an impact. Because guess what? Cal Yarncroke acquired through free agency. Hasn't done anything. Was reduced to what? Seven minutes in game two.

Like it's a big issue when you're counting on exclusively banking on guys who other teams have given up on. And that's kind of where they're at. But in terms of how he was injured, yeah, it's greasy. It's the greasiest. It's very, very greasy. But cumulative damage, it doesn't get you suspended. And what he did to Nize, if Nize wasn't injured, you'd never look at it again. Like, it's just, it's a tackle.

It's a penalty. I don't know why it wasn't called. But is it something that gets you suspended? No. And then I look at the cross check, which he was fine for. It's the same thing as the Sam Lafferty one on, I think it was Ross Colton. And you can't add those two things up and just say, hey, one game, at least to me. I mean, he's towing the line.

He's flirting with the line. He crossed it, I guess, enough to get 5K. But cumulative damage isn't something that George Peros is going to consider when he goes through the game film. It's just the reality. And if the Leafs need to do something about – or if something needs to be done about Sam Bennett, you can't count on the NHL and the league to do it. You've got to kind of step in yourself.

And they've got to do something to slow Sam Bennett down because he had a real bloodthirst in game two and it's it's yeah i mean it was undeniably effective he is a real problem for the leafs like like he is that in the fact that he is not only very good but he is violent and he wants to be violent and he's in your kitchen and like who did he spank on the first shift of the first game? Was it Kampf? Yeah. And Kampf was looking over his shoulder the rest of the game. Like, he is a real – I think that's the difference between Tampa and Florida

is that the Tampa stars, while greasy, aren't going to run you through the boards and, like, hurt you and want to hurt you. I feel like the top end like Kachuk and Bennett and these Nick Cousins, who I know is on a star, but he's playing on the top line. Like the Tampa's grunts are their grunts. The stars on Florida are kind of their grunts. You know what I mean?

Like they really, oh yeah, it's great. They really lean on you when it's, when you expect it to be the guys in the lower part of the lineup. And it's their stars that are really leaning on the Leafs. We were joking about this morning. Like Matthew Kajuk has just spawned other matthew kajuks like i know sam bennett was always like a playoff performer and always a mean dude but all of a sudden nick cousins is like six inches taller and acting like matthew kajuk without the skill

out there uh and you know what he was effective too because i think the worst play of the night the thing that infuriated me the most about what the Leafs did, forget the, you know, 66 seconds from hell, was John Tavares looking over his shoulder with Nick Cousins behind him and deciding not to eat the puck. Like that's something that everyone who's played the game could understand. Even if you're in the worst men's league possible, you eat the puck with five seconds if you can. And John Tavares didn't want to go near it because he had Nick Cousins

coming behind him ready to land a hit and he coughed up the puck and Austin Matthews has to take a penalty and you guess what the Toronto Maple Leafs needed an extra couple minutes of well that was time to tie the game and instead they had of 20 minutes they had 18 minutes in the third period because they began the period killing a penalty those things add up that's the losing hockey that they kind of and that's the trap they've fallen into when a penalty. Those things add up. That's the losing hockey that they kind of, and that's the trap they've fallen into when a lot of it didn't look so pretty in Tampa Bay, but there was a lot of winning hockey

in the series against Tampa Bay. All right, so before we let you go, we'll give you a chance to forecast this thing the rest of the way. It's okay, you don't have to paint the optimistic Sam and Ailish view of this thing if you don't want to, but what do you see coming here as they head towards Florida well I think the rest is good I think that they're still in Toronto is a good sign too I don't want to be sending you to Florida for two days to just hang

uh with you know Miami Heat games F1 races and a lot of other things you could potentially do uh so I think you know show up on Saturday afternoon, a lot of time to collect your thoughts, a lot of time to rest. I mean, Austin Matthews went, what, 25 minutes? Mitch Marner the same. Rest up and have a really angry effort, a William Nylander-type effort where surely he was slapped around in the intermission a little bit and then was the best player on the ice in the third period. We need to see that urgency.

We need to see a lack of hesitancy. We need to see the Maple Leafs go after it and get it, and they should because they are, on paper, still the better team despite being 0-2. All right. Well, thanks so much, man. We really appreciate having you on today. Thanks.

Cheers, boys. Enjoy the weekend. Yeah, you too. That is Justin Cuthbert, the host of the Fan Morning Show. At least on the Justin Cusp of coming back in this series. You know, if I were to place a Batman, I'm going to look at the Leafs. The Leafs to win this series? I can look that up for you.

Yeah, find me that, will you? Yeah, no problem. All right, so a few things that we didn't get to in the opening block. There's a lot to pick through. I'm actually surprised how much there was to pick through from this first game. You know, the home losses was one of it i am always interested in paul maurice's comments the leafs are plus 235 on bet 365 i don't want that still not good enough no because they know people believe yeah they like they still kind of think they're vegas still believes folks that's

that's lovely yeah um i want to hear you know he talked about the 66 seconds from hell paul maurice weighed in on what he said between the first and second period this is gonna make you hate him oh really oh good let's get maurice on that yeah nothing funny um i had my mic on from that quest for the cup so my language was no good. We just talked about the idea that you don't get to own every game, right? The first 10, twice shorthanded, that was theirs. That was their push. The Lundell goal was huge in this game because at that point you're going, this could be 12-0, right?

Like, it's their onus. That goal is big. And then a real strong push there in that middle part for that. And then we just settled, okay. So they're going to be good. They're going to get their chances. They're going to make their plays. They're rolling tonight.

It's just stay in the fight. For me, it's perspective. That's five games in nine nights of as intense emotional pressure you can put on the hockey team. And we're not, this isn't the Jersey Rangers series where the home teams are 11 miles apart. We've been on an airplane for a while.

So that's exactly, is that not playing into my, I actually am. I was thinking about what you said while he was talking, like give them a chance to settle in, slow down, go home, fellas, step back and take a look at what you said while he was talking like they give them a chance to settle in slow down go home fellas go step back and take a look at what you've accomplished put the feet up what an accomplishment you live in florida six wins in the playoffs go out in your lanai you know put your feet up by the pool that'd be nice yeah got it i'd hate to admit to see you i love florida i

hate it i know my least favorite state i love florida my family lives in florida i go to florida every year. I love Florida. I wouldn't live there, but I love it. You know what wants you dead? Everything. The people want you dead. The bugs want you dead.

The alligators want you dead. The weather wants you dead. Everything in Florida would prefer you not be there. I went on a trip to Florida in August once. Oh, God. It's just oppressive wet heat. Honestly. And I was like, I went to visit my uncle Glad and my cousin Gracie,

and I went there and I was like, I'm going to go shoot some hoops. And my cousin was like, you sure? And I went out and I literally was out there for two minutes like, I should have saved on, why did I leave Ontario in August? It's the best month of the year. All right. So, you know. What else have we played?

Well, Maurice on what he said there is interesting too just because the idea that he's like he's very philosophical philosophical yeah i mean a lot like cooper like every question is a essay yeah it's a chance to be you know socrates once again be like you know every game is not yours to own you know yeah you just got pumped for 10 it's not a philosophy class yeah but yeah um you know i do think that's a good message to a road team who's trying to steal another one like they did so do you want to play the key from the lineup without nice because i think he alludes to some pretty good stuff in that one and do you want to do the update from the lineup without NICE? Because I think he alludes to some pretty good stuff in that one. Do you want to do the update on him first? No.

He just says that he's going to catch on. Can't cost you later. And he's day-to-day after the next two games. Do we think there's any chance he comes back? I don't. I think it'd be a really, this, you know, I often joke about the Leafs winning the PR Cup. Mm-hmm.

And how good they are. When's that happened? I mean, they are the kings of doing everything right in the community in the public eye in this in the in the conceived public relations you know what i mean outside of letting their people communicate with the outside world yes other than that right well i mean like a radio interview you gotta be it's a bridge too far good sir gotcha but i just like i think it'd be a really tough look after these next two games to put a kid a 20 year old kid back in a really physical series when he's had

brain trauma of course of course why of course why did they say but maybe but why they say concussion well i you know trying to get him suspended well Well, that could play into it. But I don't think that saying concussion is like a mandatory period where you can't participate. Maybe he skates tomorrow or the day after. You know, like I do think that it's in their interest to sell it to everyone, sell it to his team. He's not available. Sell it to Florida.

He's unavailable. To the league, this guy's done. When, you know, maybe there's a chance to get him back. If he comes back, he's a boost, I guess. And you just have to assume he's not going to be there. I would be extremely surprised to see him again in this series. I would too. To be honest, I just, I, my sensibilities have changed a lot in hockey.

As we've often talked about, like the way that the game has changed and the way it's viewed is kind of the way I've changed my views about used to love the sammy cappin and hit oh my god him like struggling to get off be like bell that was my that is one of the greatest moments of my childhood followed by the worst moment when jeremy roenick went down the other end shot in the net but like you're right yeah like oh my god look at that idiot you're like oh jesus what was i saying buddy i i was a season ticket holder for the onside attack for 20 years, and I went and watched 15-year-olds, 16-year-olds beat up each other for four-hour long games.

It's like things have changed for the better. Yes. But I'd feel cringy if Matthew Nye's played again in the series. Sure, and I'm fine with that. I agree that depending, because had the blow he'd taken been much worse, I that i i agree that you know depending because had the blow he taken been much worse i think it i would agree with you you know they they look like a couple of small ones which also very bad i'm not saying it's good but i i am saying i can see him playing again i guess the hope is that when they play around three starting may 19th saturday night that he's

available it does may 19th yeah that's that's roughly my guess but anyway so uh let's hear Saturday night that he's available. It does. Yeah. That's that's roughly my guess. But anyway, so let's hear what the lineup will look like without Matthew Nye. Oh, obviously Matt, he's proven to improve the depth of our team and believe we're a better team when he's in all that said, we were a very good team before he arrived on scene here.

So, you know, we'll make some adjustments accordingly, but we've got full confidence in our group. Yeah, that sounds like expected. I like the idea that he's like, listen, we were a very good hockey team. We were in second when he came along. We're in second with him. You have multiple elite hockey players on your team. You should win some games without Matthew. we had four superstars up front stars if you like a super too much and then added ryan o'reilly you

know like there's five guys there who have pedigree pedigree so you can't say you don't have nizer in big trouble next man up and all that sort of stuff so we have reached the last 20 minutes of our program a lot of these are not questions. I want questions. They're like takes, which I don't mind. No, that's fine. Takes is good as a question for us. We just want to get us jumping off.

This one's from Travis Rosebrook, who tweeted in, at Travis Rosebrook. Thanks, Travis. It's a great point. The Leafs haven't lost three games in a row since October 2022. If I'm not mistaken. Is he mistaken?

Not that I'm aware of. I'm going with you, Travis Rosebrook. I'm going blind into your narrative. I think maybe in regulation, I don't think they lost three in a row since the start of the year. I remember talking about that. I don't think the big boys lose game three if they bring the same effort and eliminate the big mistakes.

Yeah. If they get that many chances again in game three, they are winning the effort and eliminate the big mistakes yeah if they get that many chances again in game three they are winning the hockey match yeah 100 i i truly believe that the one thing that they need to accept and rough talked about this a little bit is that you just have to make it so hard for the other team by being so responsible and not giving them any free chances because you're gonna get yours and i you know i i was wrong in our group chat last night i was like they're gonna get to three the question is can they keep florida to three yeah and they didn't get to three because bobrovsky made six

billion saves but i was right that the chances came to get there so to me it's a matter of keeping florida to a manageable number because there's no doubt the Leafs are going to score. It's just a matter of, yeah, keeping the other team down. Yeah. And Samson, I'm doing well enough with it. Joe Smith from Cornwall, Ontario. Wow. Full. Give me the full government.

Your address. I mean, that could be a very fake name. A shocked Bruin fans here. I feel you, Leaf fans. The eye test tells you that you should win. The loss of knives is huge. Great show, guys guys so he's a scorned ruins fan i'm sure this is like as a bruins fan watching this there's a lot of ptsd from that first round yeah because these games feel similar to the last few games of the leave of the bruins panthers series and it's impossible not to look at florida's roster and go mahera forseland

colin white eric stall like you know zach dalpy there's enough guys in this roster that should get exposed you look at teams that have success in the playoffs and look at what vegas does they get expansion drafts so they're the deepest team so think about it their best player is like the eighth best player in any other team yeah but their worst player is also the eighth best player on another team so they don't have that bottom and they just win consistency they have no depth to expose seattle same thing they have no debt bad depth to expose they win florida bad depth to expose they should lose yeah they have bad depth but it's just Their fourth line plays four minutes a night. Yeah. And they had.

What was that guy? I don't even know. Dalfi or Dalf? Dalpi. Dalpi? Yeah. He took a penalty last night. He's a journeyman minor leaguer who I once picked to win the Calder Trophy 12 years ago.

Really? Yeah. Why? I just thought he was good in training camp. Here's a preseason prediction. Wow. I love that. That's what that i mean that is a take yeah to help you i'm gonna look up his career stat i'll look it up later all right happy friday guys

you too maurice from caledon what's up mo um maybe this is paul what if one thing you forgot to mention so far is that florida has been playing exhausted and tired constantly for the last little while now they've got a couple days off to relax i think they're going to be better in game three love it love having these egg i love this all that's palmo it's palmo yeah yeah we get it paul um no no i mean you have exercised in your life you've lifted weights yeah once yeah and i wouldn't tell you what i benched in high school recently but you know when when you stop we made the joke about jogging before yeah it takes some time to you know to get it back up yeah it hurts a couple days later sometimes more so than the next day so you know i don't think florida's gonna suddenly be better with a day's rest as i mentioned

it's gonna help some guys have a little bit more pop early in shifts, but the wear and tear is still there. I can't read this name of their title. I'll show you after. It's very funny. All right. Feels like uncharted territory, so I haven't really been too disappointed. I feel that too.

No, you don't. I'm upset, but I'm not devastated. It is uncharted territory, so I haven't really been too disappointed. I feel that too. No, you don't. Like, I'm upset, but I'm not, like, devastated. It is uncharted. If they lost the first round, I would have been devastated. But it's uncharted. If they lose on Sunday, clearly devastated. But up until this point, not devastated. What gives me hope is that the Leafs are so much better,

and it just seemed like the goalies have been the difference. Nylander looked like the best player in the world last night. Looked like it was a world junior game what is your appetite for they should have won they deserved to win if they lose in four games to florida and they all look like game two where they out shoot them by a hundred they would lose four three i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know no comment at this time really i just feel like that's done here i'm already having such a hard time analyzing this and like i woke up this morning not worried about getting through two hours because obviously i'm doing this a long time i can do it but like i feel like i could have come on the radio today turn on the mic i'm like

they're way better goalie was bad made a mistake that's it thanks for listening to real kepper i'm born yeah because that's kind of what the game was yeah it was the like cutbird said the 66 seconds from hell yeah which may apply to some other things in my life all right uh this is from owen this is from owen lamacroft on twitter samson off worries me he's overplaying everything which leads to some big saves but also some really bad goals. I think it's time to take McKenna's idea and give Wall a chance to get us back in it. Forwards in the D zone also have their heads in the clouds, sometimes brutal to watch.

Thanks, Owen. I will say this. Typically, I would really disagree with the Leafs forwards in the D zone being a problem. The weak side D, the weak side winger is been lost an awful lot in terms of protecting the slot in the net front area and also you know you look at nize kind of gets caught between on the one they shoot through in game one they haven't been great

i'm gonna hear that i'm gonna ding ding ding i'm gonna give you points on that one um the the wall samsonov stuff like come on like how desperate like no you can't do all you just i i will disrespect a wall wall might be the starter next year i will ask you something here though okay healthy matt murray in a vacuum yeah healthy matt murray if he were available tonight is playing on sunday no he i would send him to go play for the Toronto Marlies. Okay. And. I don't like. I was going to say, I don't like Matt Murray.

It's a rude thing to say. I don't love him in that. Yes. And as always, these criticisms are not about the person. But. I don't think he's an NHL goalie at this point. Okay. Yeah.

I just think the pedigree. He has played in. Yeah, yeah. But. So there's part of me that when Samsonov I thought we might wake up today and get the report like hey Samsonov's can cost like he took two of the bean last night that clapper that like he collapsed yeah I mean it's crazy that he is so obviously hurt hurt with something. And everyone's just like, well, he always does that. He always looks hurt. It's kind of the boy who cries wolf situation.

It 100% is. That's exactly what this is. Where you're like, I don't know. Tell us when you're really hurt. You've been milking injuries all year. Like looking hurt all the time yeah i don't know what's real yeah and you continue to play so you take a knee for a minute in game excuse us for not being like get the ems out there anyway i i did have a moment last night where i was like if wool

goes in and i mean this with full conviction i don't feel any worse about their chances. It doesn't really change it. I don't like wall has a chance to get hot. If he gives up a bad goal, Samson is already doing that every game. Yeah, but you just can't do it. You can't because there's the chance he goes in and gives up six. We make fun of Keith for being the tinkerer for Tinkerbell.

You imagine the conversation in this city. Go to a guy. How many NHL games is wall played? I think the answer, you don't need to look at it. It's like 12. 12 to 15. Regardless of the number. It's 12. 15 or 17. Everyone got in for a game one against Tampa, and that guy just came in and just

shoot it through his chest on the breakaway. It was breakaway or whatever, but it was like, maybe not him either. We're not ready for that yet. It's just something that we haven't really looked at much. I forgot about that clip. Does Sheldon Keefe ever take a timeout after a string of bad play? No.

I think that some of these bad games could have been put in check with a timeout calming everyone down and reminding what they're supposed to be doing. I'll hear it. And I like it as an observation, but not for last game to one, you get the intermission anyway. Yeah.

And the first one, like how panic would it be to give up one right away? Yeah. They got one on us. You know, like it just would seem, I wouldn't have heard it after the third. It happened so fast.

And that building was just. Oh my God. Okay. It's happening fast and that building was just in such shock. Everybody stay calm. What's the procedure? That's the problem. That was actually the most visibly mad Sheldon has been without being like the beet red yelling mad.

Like just at the turnovers he was just like at the refs, at his own guys. So he's trying to keep it in. Why keep it in? At your own guys so he's trying to keep it in why keep it in at your own guys it's time matthews you're gonna go yell at matthews go full maurice has he ever done that on his guys no they've really protected those guys it would be refreshing when you're losing one of these massive hockey games to see him go full maurice game two middle of the game not not last night yeah but there's been times where they could have used it for sure he never does it

yeah ever but boy he well every time he does say anything kip comes in here and he talks about i don't like that matthew's gonna be in la and martin is gonna move to mexico and leans on the refs he does he's uh he's frustration he's nick nurse ask yeah he leans on the refs. He does. He's Nick Nurse-esque. He leans on them pretty good. And if he ever gets them to come over and talk to him, he does the face where he thinks that they're just the stupidest people in the world. He's got that... Yeah, I hate that face

he does. You know, he's nailed it. What are you... If you're the ref, you're like, I can't wait to call another one on you. Have you ever refed a hockey game before, Pel? uh great show this is always a good way to get your tax read this is a great show don't know why but i am not in panic mode yet lose sunday then the pain and hurt will start just don't see the least losing three in a row that's from roger in the 905 just move on the

most traumatic way i can phrase this is that I'm not nervous at all, but if they lose the next game, they're not going to win the series. Yeah, I guess that's a confidence that they're going to win the next game. They're in it or it's over. Yeah. Right? Well, and to be honest, when you're sincerely the better team, even at 3-0, it's not over.

You know, when you're the underdog and you're down three nothing night night the better team's gonna play better and get one on you over four games you know you can string it together when you're genuinely the better team as i believe the leafs are here but you just have to play against the bruins down three oh then they'll maybe the choking bruins those dogs i do if they the, like, they obviously just coming back from 3-1 is different than 3-0, clearly. Like, if you get the first one in Florida, you lose the next one, go 3-1. It's still a series. Yeah.

It's still a series, but you lose the first one in Florida, it's over. It's funny how that works, right? Right? It's all perception. Come back 3-1 and it does feel very different. Yeah, it's all perception. But it's impossible to believe there's a world where Florida beats them four straight times.

Okay, let me ask you this. This is from Chris and Aurelia. This may be one for not with five minutes after the show. How do we really feel about Mitch Marner? He has the most points, but he never seems to be a game breaker chris marilia you know for a guy that you know kipper talks about being better than matthews and um the engine and all that gets an awful lot of passes yeah you know in this you make an 11 million bucks compared to Kachuk and other sort of drivers of the play. I'll say, I think he has narratively has been helped out by,

he had six points in the 7-3, 7-2 games. You know, two shots went through Vasilevsky. You know, kind of those games were whatever. And since then is not really, we're at the point in the postseason with him where it's like i thought last night he was dynamic so good he controlled the play he attacked the net he made that pass to o'reilly he shot the puck i actually thought riley was sorry marner was really good last night and so if he's that guy that's worth the money and you can convince me he's a playoff guy but it's been underwhelming for the past six games fair i think that's fair

you're looking at me like it's not fair i i want to know what your take is on how do because how do we really feel about mitch marner i'm a guy who does analysis i'm not a fan. It's complicated. Yeah. It's complicated. I think you would, for a guy that has 12 points so far, you would like more. But it's hard to ask for more when the production's there. Yeah. But I'm sure behind closed doors,

actually they probably don't say anything to him because they just don't want to hurt his feelings. Right. But like, I'm sure Keefe would... Like a little more... If you gave him the true serum and him and dubas were sitting around having a pizza and a beer yeah they might be like we need a little

bit more for mitch yeah right well sure i mean if you want to talk about him in a class of the guys like braden point who you know really really effective and good all the time and game impactful top guys you know one thing we do in this sport as fans and doing analysis we say he's a top five player in the league and you go oh okay yeah who's the five and you start counting it out shocking how many players you could try uh sam bennett nick cousins that's the first three in the best players in the league apparently but it's shocking like when you really actually write it down and you go oh kael mccarr connor mcdavid nathan mckinnon austin matthews you know you start doing whatever your version

of that is and you go oh he's actually the 17th best player you know whatever it is yeah so yeah i would say it's a complicated relationship in this city with him based on contract output playoff performance um did you see the hitty through last night yes he absolutely mucked someone that's an m by the way i know it was a mucking hard hit yes but they didn't like i love the broadcast we are so good cc and and um craig simpson the camera had turned right but they didn't go back to it no replay yeah that's his hardest hit he's thrown as a leaf it was a really hard hit was it mahura mahura it was just like oh my god can we get a replay on that and also morgan riley's two biggest hits oh my god he's rocking guys he's giving me

brian campbell vibes he's catching guys they're not expecting yeah they're i've really loved the hits they're throwing luke shin by the the way, just another shout-out. Five shot attempts, three on net, an assist, a part of the most important pair. Every time he touches the puck, I'm like, oh, thank God it's Shin. Which is an insane sentence. I know. He's going to get money in the offseason.

You think so? Yeah. I think he gets over a million bucks for a couple years from somewhere. Leafs? I would really love it. I know Vancouver fans, they want him back. Yeah, probably. Yeah.

I would probably want him back. I mean, your team stinks. The only thing I, you know, I, the only reason I would really want him on the Leafs is that you have Morgan Rielly at 7.5. He's played with this guy for 10 games. He's been the best he's ever been. He's never played better. Could you, like, you worry about the decline for Shen,

but if you can get a version of this Shen, you can be Riley like this for a year or two. He hit 13 is Reinhardt along the boards. And Reinhardt didn't fall, but his soul left his body. The look on his face, he's like, oh. He was skating this way and instantly was moving the other way and was like, oh. He looks like no fun to play against Shen. No, no kidding.

All right, well, we're going into game three. We're doing predictions as always. What do you got? The Leafs are going to win. They are. Yeah, they're going to win. I'm going to bet a lot of money on the Panthers, but the Leafs are going to win. I think they tighten it up on D2, so give me a 4-1 Leafs victory on Sunday.

I'll go 3-1. All right. Thank you very much to Mike Ruff and Justin Cuthbert, Brandeo, Sis, Sammy. Thanks for joining us out of the glass. And we will see you after this weekend, after game three, back with Nick Kiprios. We'll be right back.