Real Kyper & Bourne - Grudge Match on the Island

Episode Date: March 21, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin with Sam's grievance of a Montreal Canadiens mural in Toronto before teeing up tonight's Leafs' game against the New York Islanders. They discuss the 12-6 lineup going into the game, Pierre Engvall's revenge game and the odd combinations on defence. They are joined by four-time Stanley Cup winner, MSG Network's Butch Goring (20:46), who breaks down the Islanders' postseason outlook, how Bo Horvat has been the catalyst for the team's turnaround, why the powerplay has struggled and the ill-will Islanders' fans still hold against John Tavares. Then, NHL on Sportsnets' David Amber looks at the playoff push around the league, why some teams are limping to the line and the Flames' season-long struggle (40:51). Finally, Penguins' writer for the Athletic Rob Rossi talks about Pittsburgh falling out of a playoff spot, if the owership group is at risk and the future for the team's stars if they fail to make the postseason (1:06:09).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is real Kipper and born on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. And it's live and it's in color on Sportsnet's YouTube channel. Sportsnet's now listened to on Sportsnet 590 The Fan, iTunes, Spotify. We've got you covered for a busy Tuesday night in the National Hockey League. 13 games on schedule, including the Toronto Maple Leafs visiting UBS Arena to take on the New York Islanders. We've got a great show for you. Butch Goring will be joining us in about 20 minutes to tee up that game. David Amber, host of Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet.

He had a good one last night with the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Ottawa Senators. David Amber, host of Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. He had a good one last night with the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Ottawa Senators. Where there was an unlikely hero named Dylan Ferguson. You remember that name? No, do you? Yes. Oh. He was one of like 16 goalies that Vegas went through a few years ago.

Yeah. You remember all those injuries? I do, yeah. I don't know if he actually played a game or not i can't remember he did i i know because he's played two games in the nhl and his first was against mcdavid and the second was against crosby so decent uh decent opponents to start so his win comes at the expense of the pittsburgh penguins in the second hour will bring in Rob Rossi, senior writer for The Athletic. Based in Pittsburgh, things are ugly in Pitt. Everyone, like all these teams on the cusp, Pittsburgh can't get a win.

You know, like Winnipeg can't win. Flames can't win. Come on, someone take this thing. So we're glad everybody's on board here for the next few hours. Derek Brandeo, David Siss-Boombaugh, and of course, the star of the show, Sammy McKee, will be leaving us tomorrow. I know. I haven't been 1% jealous, and today I am suddenly very jealous. What do you got going?

Yeah, I'm going to my good buddy keegan's bachelor party for a few nights in scottsdale arizona gonna play some golf i'm gonna have a couple orange crushes probably enjoy the sun and just have a good time i'm really looking forward to it okay i gotta get this out of the way because oh we usually don't talk before a show like we can sit for an hour and a half you're eating a chocolate bar i'm putting yeah and sammy's stewing yeah today yes and we're gonna get we're gonna get to the islanders and the leafs but i don't know where this is coming from sammy today out of you about the ttc and mural of the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadians.

And like, seriously, this thing's been around forever. Like, what is eating your shorts there, Gilbert Grape, on this? So, last night I went to the Toronto Six game at Mattamy Arena. The old Maple Leaf Gardens had a blast. Toronto Six punched their ticket to the isabel cup final congratulations to them and on my way home i went to college subway station i saw the habs mural there and listen it's not my first time in there no i've seen it a hundred times i understand it's insane that that exists i i really can't believe that since 1985 when the mirror was porn uh painted we've just been okay with that i

i can't imagine any other city in the world who's loves their professional sports team like the toronto fans love the maple leaves would allow the rivals team painted not like in a you know make fun of jokey manner where the Leafs are like bashing their heads in or something like a hidden spot in town they're beautifully immortalized if you will like enshrined if you will on the subway station closest to the old rink it's mind-blowing to me I honestly can't believe that that's allowed get rid of it paint over it I couldn't agree more can you imagine first off it's a testament to the people of Toronto that that's allowed. Get rid of it. Paint over it. I couldn't agree more. Can you imagine?

First off, it's a testament to the people of Toronto that that mural is intact. Because can you imagine what would happen to a Red Sox mural in the Bronx? Yes. Or like, think of it like that. You don't even have to go to that extreme. Like, what about Philly? The closest one. They're like, oh, let's put a picture of Sid up there. Yeah.

It's insane. Okay. My first thought listening to all of this is you need to get a life. That's the first one. A fair takeaway. Yeah. The first thought is like, oh, my God, I can't even believe this is a conversation. My second thought is that it's based on the best rivalry in hockey.

Okay. thought is is that it's based on the best rivalry in hockey okay so the thought is saturday nights you're getting off and is it is it the leaves facing south and montreal facing north if you have to know the details they've messed up no it's it's on both sides right it's the halves one is on the northbound platform and the yes it's only i mean it's pretty apropos they're going south they are together no they're on opposite sides it's not it's the same spot yeah but it's it's the same stop so you it's based on the rivalry okay great so let me okay go back to 1986 haves good Horrible team. One of the worst teams in the league. And you go down to Maple Leaf Gardens, you spend your hard-earned dollars, you go down there and you watch the Montreal Canadiens wax your favorite Toronto Maple Leafs, and then you gotta go north up to the north of the city. I'm gonna go hop on the subway. Oh, great! There's the team that just waxed my favorite team enshrined on the wall. You know, I'm urging the TTC to revoke your Presto card. No way.

Sammy's right. Sammy's 100% right here. This is the type of thing that's like, you know, you're supposed to, you don't actually hate people from Montreal. That's not real, but it's sports hate. We're not supposed to celebrate their franchise in our city. There's a celebration. The celebration is they're there. They're on the wall. They're painted. So then Lance Hornby

who works for Toronto Suns, worked there forever, he writes for them and he sent me a tweet talking about the history of it and that the TTC initiated a project to have a mural done and they wanted to have Habs and Leafs on opposite sides like it is today.

And Harold Ballard said, absolutely no way are you using the Toronto Maple Leafs logo if the Habs are involved. And he was right. He nailed it. Like everyone always says, Harold Ballard had it right. He doesn't nail a lot of things. 47 counts of fraud is right.

He was right on this one. I hate to say it. He was right. Why would you let... Like, they're like... Wine squirrel and a nut. Something about that. You're going to paint the Habs in my subway station closest to my rank where I live?

I got to see that all the time? I'm sure he took the subway all the time, Harold Ballard. But, like, it's just... Anyways. I know we don't have to spend too much more time on this. It just drives me nuts. All right. Glad we did that.

Let's go down there with just a spray can paint and just do your thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, Sam McKee, Sportsnet.

Behind bars. This show would be thing of legend. It would be admissible in court if anything happens to that mural in the next 24 or 48 hours this is trump inciting the riot they're coming right at you man right at you it's true if someone wants to be construed as having been provoking if someone wants to get it off scott free oh, today's the day. Sign it with your Twitter handle. Real Kipper and Bourne Show, Season 2, Episode 114, Exhibit A. The best part is, Kipper, if they ever look for this episode,

there's no way it's properly labeled. Yes, I mean, that's really good on your part. You just write down any number you want on our episodes. All right. That's not true. I keep track. JB. Yes.

Paint us a picture of tonight's game because Leafs are going 12 and six tonight. 12 forwards, six defense. Well, they're going in against a New York Islander team at a crucial point in their season coming off a West Coast swing where they got two wins. You know, some people say coming back off the road swing like that, teams can a little vulnerable first game back at home it's a good thing uh brody being hurt is uh the note of interest i think for defense you got brody shin and timmons all scratched along with uh with simmons i think brody's is he blocked a shot he's not 100 do we remember do we remember anything significant in the ottawa game i don't really but he's in the way a lot he's

in the way a lot so he got hit by hockey puck and they're gonna give him an extra day which makes some sense yeah and then 12 and 6 i'm on i'm on board with that i like it hoping it's not the like the last time they're like a brody's day today and then he was out for three weeks with an oblique so hoping they're being hopeful being truthful this time. They sent Steve's down. So of the 12, who do we have as the extra? Oh, McMahon. McMahon in with Lafferty and Nylander. Okay, so I like that.

All right, let's go to Sheldon Keefe for our first Clippers, Kippers, Clippers, Rippers, Snippers of the day on the New York Islanders. Yeah. They're just, they're defending real well right now. Obviously, their goaltending, we know, is a real strength and foundation of their team.

Gives them a chance to win every night, but just they're defending real hard and protecting the goaltender, so that makes them even harder to get to. It's a deep team that plays hard and structured, and obviously they're playing to keep themselves in their playoff spot,

and they've been hanging on to that and playing good hockey. So they're a team that traditionally in these spots, they dial things in this time of the year, and I think that's what you're seeing. They're just playing a very hard and structured and simple game. It's almost as if when Sheldon talks about another team, he's got the same script, but there's only just that empty insert team here.

Or insert compliment. And you can pick whichever one, but you know it's going to be, yeah, insert team, insert compliment. You know the format. The only question I have about tonight's game is, does Engvall score two or three times in his revenge game against

the Toronto Maple Leafs tonight? Sammy. Yes. One for sure. I'm really looking forward. I'm just hoping somebody plows him. That's like someone hits him or someone tries to get in his face and he just does the classic thing that he always does. He's done a great job all these years of avoiding contact.

What makes you think tonight's the night? Him ever being hit hard? Honest to God, can you ever remember Pierre Engvall taking a big shot? No. No. I don't remember him throwing one or hitting. In his, since he's gone to the Islanders.

The neck is like a lifeguard chair. You can see everything from up there and he never gets hit. And since he's gone to the Islanders, he has, in seven games, he has five points, which you talked about yesterday. It's nice. Plus two.

And I go over to the other stats. How many shot blocks do you games he has five points which you talked about yesterday it's nice plus two and i go over to the other stats how many uh shot blocks you think he has in seven games zero how many hit how many hits also none two he's six five 220 get in the way there is a there was a part of me where i was really starting to accept him well but that but that's the thing. Yeah, you're right, because he's never going to be different than this. But he actually started to show signs that... No, Kip. No, I'm not hearing this. We drove this guy out of town.

I'm not hearing this now. I am speaking... This is like role reversal Freaky Friday here. But I started accepting more of today's 2023 player in the national hockey league and it's a lot of these guys you can't light a fire underneath them but the guy is six foot five and he could skate man hey can you imagine having more tools at your disposal and doing less with them like you did what you did for a career, Nick, at 6 foot and 205 pounds. I know, but that's apples to oranges.

And I just think that he could be a legit 15, 20 goal scorer. He's got 15 right now. Okay, so he'll hit 20 maybe. Maybe. So that's a good thing. I know. It's a good thing. I know. It's a good thing. I won't hear this.

I was having a drink of water. I won't hear this. Come on. We crapped on this guy for his playoff stuff. I've been with this man for two years. This is too big a zag. I can't handle the zag. I will not hear this about Pierre Agbo. He's zagging too hard here. Alright.

But listen, I'm not overly surprised that he's doing well there. He's effective. The one thing that's different with him is the Islanders badly need depth guys who do good things. And he does good things. His ice time since he's been there. I'm trying to look at what it was in Toronto,

but he's always around 13 minutes per game. He's playing 15, 51, 15 30 like they're using them flex seal now we already have one of those yeah he's scotch tape he's a thumbtack Yeah, exactly. He's not quite the same. We're down to bobby pins now, I think. So I get it. But he's going to score tonight. Brace yourself for that. Oh, absolutely. Rip it in the net. Blow by Shin or someone they just acquired.

No, Shin's not playing. Shin's not in, so. Shin's not in. So can I ask you about that? About him not being in? Yeah. You surprised that he's, you know, they're not players? I feel like he's going through a bunch of stuff with the newborn family in Vancouver.

No, he just got back in. He's not going back out. You think he's going home or back to Vancouver? I don't know. I would. Is he not? I don't know. I hope that's not the case because you got to start really being around guys.

This is not like a part-time job here. That kid will never remember anyway. You're supposed to be around each other. You're supposed to be getting together. More bonding now than ever before to hit that stride in game one. I hope that's not the case. The guys are bouncing back and forth and Samsonov's back in. I don't think his wife's had the baby yet, right? No, she has. Oh, Samsonov. Oh, Samsonov. Samsonov's back in i don't think he's had his wife's had the baby yet

right no she has samsonov samsonov no no they're still waiting still waiting god they're asking about kids a lot like they were asking what the protocol is about them down there and like wow we i know those guys and they'll let them do whatever they want to do in terms of being there and being around i'm sure so but like if he's mid game oh yeah dude just throw bat marie in there ice cold season on the line for him they do it shen's out mark giordano's in let's go to sheldon keith on managing uh his ice time his minutes it's more just us doing doing what we can to to manage it We have had to utilize him more throughout the season, just with the number of injuries that we've dealt with,

and now we're in a spot where we're healthy and have more depth than ever. So we can just be smart with it, but as we've talked about, it's not just him. We've talked to our entire D-Corps about looking for opportunities for them to stay involved and not have to sit for too long and get everybody in the mix and at the same time ensure that they, like Brody's case here,

that they don't have to play through anything at this point in time. I think that's one of the luxuries that we have with the fact that we've got certainly eight and even nine with Timmons here, very capable NHL defenseman that can step in and we shouldn't miss a beat. I will say this, that it appears that he wants to try to create some internal competition here, right? Is that the sense that we're getting?

I don't even know if create's the right word. Just it's there. You know, like there is competition. Play well and be a part of this like so riley gustafson is a pair pair tonight not a placeholder and practice pair like it seems like that's going to be what they're gonna do which is interesting to me that they but the only thing i would say to that is that then you strike lightning here and they're great together, then they're a pair.

I know. That's your top pair going into game one. No, then it's not. I'm sorry, but why else are you putting them together? To see if they can work together so you can not have them matched up against the other team's top players. Because you know that McCabe can play

against their team's top players. You know that Brody can do it. And then you kind of manage their minutes and play them maybe in a more offensive sort of thing but you know to kip's point i often think that like do you want to try something that let's say it works puts you in a bad spot long term like i can't see the leafs wanting gustafson in their lineup as one of 6d well shen's out or brody's out it's top four like you're either going against braden point and kucherov or you're gonna go against stamp coast right and uh and probably cologne or i don't know where tanner uh janeau falls in but like those that's that's a big assignment for gustafson you know and they obviously think well i'm i shouldn't say they

obviously think i am curious to know what they think about the value of breaking the puck out like he can make plays right he can but you know we just saw them make moves to go away from guys like that in favor of guys who could clear out the front of the net. All I'm doing is I'm dumping it in his corner, and he's looking like Christmas dinner to me. Well, and they seem to want to go away from that. So is it right now still that they're like, we're outside of 10 games left? There's still a few more games to tinker and try some things

and see what works? I got to think so, but I'm starting to get uncomfortable at single-digit games left. Like, I don't love McCabe-Lilligren either. These pairs don't make sense to me. Geo Hall's fine. But, like, have we seen Riley McCabe for any stretch of time?

Nope. I think that's just them thinking that it's too loaded. Too heavy, like, in terms of the rest of it then? Yeah. Worry about the rest of it. yeah about the rest of it yes yeah so from three to six boy then you go haul brody behind it and then you're left with you know chin or yeah i am of you know considering shannon lilligran considering keith has tried the janitor on the fourth line here in the last month since the trade right. Right. I'm surprised they haven't thrown those two together,

considering McCabe can play the offside too, right? Like, I don't know. Anyways. All right. All right. Up front, Sheldon's comments on JT. What do we get out of that? Let's find out.

Yeah, he just goes through his routine and stays consistent with it. I think that's really ultimately what works in terms of it coming back is just trust your habits, trust your abilities. But we don't need to make a bigger deal of it than it is. Like I said, he's played lots with Mitch, and Mitch has played lots with Bunce. And, you know, I expect that line to really get going and obviously hoping that the Matthews group that we put together here with Yarncrook and Kerfoot can continue as well.

So all of that is good, and I think, as we talked about Willie a little bit yesterday, I think his game the other night in Ottawa, despite it being a back-to-back, was a step in the right direction, and if that continues, then that group will get going as well. The most interesting thing here is the top line top line is Kerfoot Matthews Yarncroft yeah you know this is

like the old send Mitch to rescue the guy who's not playing well routine that's exactly what it is yeah there's a real sense that he's not happy with Tavares or Nylander lately for sure I mean it's pretty clear they're lined by, whatever expected goals and all that. They got filled in the last little bit here.

They're turning the puck over. And to Keith's point on Willie, he's not hanging on to it. Like, he's just kind of throwing it away and hoping things are going to happen. So I've said for a long time on this show, I've seen Sidney Crosby play with, you know, a couple of donuts and figure it out. You know, like drive a line because he's that good. This is prime age Austin Matthews.

He should be able to be a part of a dangerous line, even if it is Kerfoot and Yarncroft. I'm curious if he can carry a line and still get value out of it. Okay. As we said at the start of the show, we're going to bring in a four-time Stanley Cup winner Butch Goring. Does a terrific job on MSG Network covering the New York Islanders. Welcome aboard, Butch.

How are you? I'm well. Thanks, guys, for having me. It's always fun. Well, that's great. Let's just start with the Bo Horvat factor here. And what was it that enabled, I think, the Islanders to have some stability that you've seen throughout his stay so far going into tonight's game

against the Leafs? Well, I think first and foremost, it was Lula Amarillo making that big move and bringing in a quality person and a quality talent. I think just sort of woke the team up to say, hey, you know what? that big move in bringing in a quality person and a quality talent, I think just sort of woke the team up to say, hey, you know what? I still believe in you. You guys can still get the job done. We can still make the playoffs. So I think there was a – I don't want to say there was an adjustment

in attitude, but it was just I think an awakening of what really was going on with this team and the expectations for it. Then you bring in a guy like Bo, who is such a good hockey player, a goal scorer, 33 years in a row, I believe, scoring 30 or more goals, and he just does so many things. I mean, he's on the power play. He's killed penalties. He's good on the face-offs.

And now he's, you know, until Barzell got hurt, they had a legitimate first line with, you know with two guys with really top-end skills. So he's been a godsend for this team on so many ways. Well, thanks for joining us today, Butch. I did want to ask you about this team and not just trying to sneak into playoffs. Is there any reason to believe that the way they're constructed would allow them a chance to really upset someone in the first round and maybe do more damage than that?

I think there's a possibility. Hey, listen, there's a couple teams, you know, Boston in particular, that, you know, they've had an incredibly good year, and that would be a tough matchup for anybody, it seems. So, you know, the way the Islanders play is, A, they've got a great goaltender. I think top five and maybe even top three in the entire National Hockey League allow a tremendous start to a playoff series. And they play a defensive brand of hockey. They're happy, and they don't feel the pressure of playing in one-nothing games or

two-one. I mean, these guys just keep playing shift after shift and nothing seems to bother them. I mean, they remind me of what Al Arbor used to say, I don't care if the roof falls in, you guys keep playing the same way. That's really their mentality is they know their game and they don't get frustrated with their game. They don't expect to score five, six goals a night and blow out teams. They expect to win 2-1, 3-2 and they're comfortable doing it. So when you have that kind of mentality, I think

you can beat anybody, you know, given the things get in the right way. And let me just add, if their power play ever wakes up, that would be a real bonus. Yes, indeed. Butch, the name Pierre Engvall didn't get the hype of a Bo Horvath coming to the island, but what have you seen out of him that our producer Sammy never saw in the years he was at Toronto Maple Leaf?

Well, you know, to be honest with you, I saw him a couple times when he played with Toronto, and he had good games against the Islanders. So when I heard he was coming, I was happy because I really feel like he can play in any one of the three lines and be effective because he doesn't deviate really from his game. And so what I will say is the first game he played, he was very good, very noticeable. And then for the second and the third game, he disappeared. And I don't know why, but he did.

But then since then, he's back to his old self, or the self that I'm looking for. He's scored goals in three straight games. He has an influence on the game. He's very noticeable, and he's playing with a lot more, it seems like a lot more confidence and a lot more energy. Yeah, he's a talented guy. He just needs a

whack from his coach in the years once every eight games butchie oh well then i'm not in that position to do it so but uh certainly lane lambert's got a bit of a temper so maybe that's what he did that's great yeah no that's uh that's a good way to get the best out of him you know i did want to touch on something you just mentioned a moment ago, is that power play. You look at the bottom quarter of the league, the only team in playoffs that's in the bottom quarter of the league in power play percentage is the Islanders. They're 30th in the NHL, 16.5% power play.

Like, if they were even league average, they would be, you know, far up the standings. What's the deal? Why does the power play struggle so much? You know what? That's the deal? Why does the power play struggle so much? You know what? That's the $20 million question. They certainly have enough talent. Maybe they wouldn't be the best power play in the league,

but they certainly shouldn't be in the bottom third of the league. 30th is an embarrassment, really, as far as I'm concerned. They go through these periods of time where they struggle to get in just with the entry. They turn it over a lot. And for the most part, what I see is I don't see a lot of creativity with this power play. It's a very standstill kind of thing, passing around the outside, looking for the outside shot or score it to the net,

and hope Anders Lee or Zach Parise can deflect it. So it's not a very creative power play, and as a former penalty killer, I don't see where they're a challenge to the penalty killers. I think they're very predictable, and when you become predictable, these penalty killers today, they're such good skaters. They get in front of shots. They get their sticks there. They do a heck of a job

on the Islanders. But I agree with you 100%. If they had just the middle of the pack, they wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot. They'd be fighting for position, who they play in the first round. Butch, the top six on the blue line for the New York Islanders,

we can go down rosters throughout the National Hockey League and say, oh, no question who their number one defenseman is, but what is the pecking order? Who's the go-to guy on that blue line? Well, you know, in most cases, most nights, it's Adam Pollock. He's the guy, the power of strength, and Ryan Pollock has played extremely well in the second half,

so he's been a good one. Romanov has been really good in the second half also. So you've got three guys that have picked their game up and are playing really well. Scott Mayfield is pretty steady out there. He's got long stick. He's strong. He's got some bite to his game

and does a good job with the penalty kill. And young Aho has continued to get a little bit better. He's undersized, but he's a terrific skater, so he's finding his way. And I don't think it's any secret. I mean, Noah Dobson has not had a great year. And so that would be the only fly in the ointment for the Islanders right now, although he's picked his game up recently, and that's good news. But they don't have, you know,

Pellick and Pollock used to play together all the time, and that was kind of the number one pair. But Coach Lambert decided to make a change, and he's sort of balanced things off through the six of them, which seems to have worked out really well. It seems to have just given the defense a little more balance in different areas. Does Lou have it right with valuing older veteran guys, you think,

compared to the rest of the league? I look at guys like Zach Parise or Peugeot, Palmieri, some of these guys that are very good players and have had great careers. Some teams may think they're, you know, past their best before day, but Lou seems to really put a lot of pride in these guys who've been through it and they're mature, professional guys. He gets the most out of them. There's no question about that.

I mean, Zach Parise is one of the best forwards we have. I mean, you talk about 18 seasons and 1,100 games, I believe he's got over 400 goals. And he looks the same thing almost from the day he started playing when he was an 18, 19-year-old. I mean, nobody works harder, nobody competes harder, and nobody is more consistent. So I don't know what Lou sees in these guys,

but he's got some magic because the veterans on this team have played very, very well. Like I said, if it wasn't for some of the injuries and the power play, people would be looking at this team with a little different perspective. We're talking to Butch Goring, four-time Stanley Cup winner and broadcaster with MSG. Hey, Butch, you've been around this team a very long time, and you've seen players come and go, including some from your dynasty that got traded off and then returned.

Where does John Tavares coming back as a Toronto Maple Leaf time and time again rank when it comes to the drawing emotion from New York Islander fans yeah well he might be number one that's what I figured and uh you know just the way things, I think, worked out with him, apparently, and I don't know this for a fact, I've never heard this, but, you know, him saying he wanted to stay on Long Island and become an Islander, and I don't know if that is true or not, but that was out there. And so that irated the fans.

Obviously losing John and not getting anything in return, you know, was a tough deal for the hockey team and the organization. So I guess there's a lot of reasons you can dislike John Tavares. I mean, the only thing I will say is he was a great player when he was here, and I have nothing but respect for the way he played. But would I have liked him to stay on the island yes but you know what that's why you got a thing called the free agency and you can do whatever you please and who could blame anybody for wanting to play in their hometown yeah that's uh it's fair enough but I was hoping to get your

thoughts on a couple of teams in the playoff race with the islanders they're uh you know in tight you know coming down the stretch here the pittsburgh penguins lose a big one last night the panthers are kind of climbing up what are your thoughts on the penguins and the panthers and uh which of those teams maybe would concern you a little bit more uh they both concern me they're they're two really good hockey teams and and uh i know as aner fan, I'm thankful that Pittsburgh has been struggling as of late because they had a little bit of a lead and they had games in hand. And two weeks ago, they looked like they were going to be a shoe-in. So they have struggled. And Florida, you know, I've been kind of waiting for them all year.

I mean, last year they finished first overall, and I've been waiting for them to sort of come alive and find that ability that they had last year. I mean, last year they finished first overall, and I've been waiting for them to, you know, sort of come alive and find that ability that they had last year. And it seems like maybe they're starting to slowly capture it. So both those teams are very capable to win games. I mean, anytime you've got Sidney Cosby on your hockey team, you know that, you know, he's missed the playoffs once, and that was in his first year, I believe. So you know what kind of a competitor he is and what kind of leadership he brings in that dressing room. So they're going to fight right to the bitter end. So the Islanders, they've been playing really good hockey,

and they've just got to continue to do that. And, you know, the old cliche, you've just got to take care of your own business. And if you do that, then you've got a pretty good chance. Sorokin's made a name for himself when it's, when people regard him as one of the better goalies in the league. What kind of player are the Leafs going to face tonight in net? And where's his game right now?

His game has been remarkably consistent. He's a guy that can win a game on his own. He leads the league, I think, in shutouts. If he was playing with the Boston Bruins, he'd be an absolute sense for the Vezina, as Olmark is at this point in time. Sorokin should get votes as a Vezina trophy winner just because he's been that good.

His record isn't as good simply because his team votes as a Vesna trophy winner just because he's been that good. His record isn't as good simply because his team hasn't been as good as it needed to be at different times. Making the playoffs and a chance to win a playoff series, if you've got a goaltender like Sorokin, you have a chance. Hey, Butch, really appreciate your time.

Have a great call tonight. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Be well. Thanks, Butch. Butch Goring on the New York Islanders. You know that market well. Yeah.

Grew up in it. They're going to kind of take their foot off the gas pedal a little bit. On all JT? On JT. No. No. Not yet. Title to the absolute medal, boys.

No chance. It has to to the absolute medal, boys. No chance. It has to be like a Vince Carter thing, like 10 years after his career. Which I don't agree with. It's still wrong that people are like, he's okay. The man said he stopped dunking. Are Raptor fans that tough on Carter every time he came in? Oh, my God. Yeah, I can't.

All right. And listen, I hate his guts. I didn't watch over the years well enough on that. It probably comes down to what kind of person you are. You know, I'm a little bit more forgiving person than it sounds like Sammy is. I mean, John Tavares didn't go in the media and say he was going to quit dunking. And, you know. Play what?

He said. Hold on. Carter said he was going to quit dunking? Yes. He said he was because his hand was going to stop dunking when he was playing for the Raptors. And then he traded. And then he went over and dunked all the time for New Jersey. And he quit on the team.

The man quit on the Toronto Raptors. And everyone was like, oh, he's fine. There would be no statue for him. Oh, he's just misunderstood. He was a young man. It's like, boo! So, you know, this, the Engvall thing, everyone's talking about, oh, you know, it's going to get a goal tonight, whatever. I would be way more offended if he threw like a big hit or blocked a big shot.

Like, that would burn me just 10 times more. A headfirst diving shot block on the PK. What the hell was that? Our Sportsnet YouTube poll. what do we have we have almost 400 votes already on if he scores tonight yeah 55 say yes he will score i i just think they're scorned because every former guy like at least made it out unscathed against colorado and evgeny malgan aka dennis malgan who is now i i just got this sent to me um jared bednar talking about the confidence in dennis malgan yeah i think he wants the top line minutes i think he's a guy that likes to be playing and make plays he's gone from

the fourth line to the third line to the second line and last night he was on the first line he also went on to compliment his defensive play the mall canadian like could he just go to another team and just suck oh no no yeah go to davos once kyle resigns in toronto he's coming back for a third time listen this man i would not rule that out for a second He clearly likes him 1.1 million though He's going to have to pay more No, no, he's going to have to pay more now Because he's lighting it up there

But like, it must burn him so hard That his son couldn't figure it out here I think he wants the top line Oh, whoa, was that me? Yeah, it was you I'm hearing those Instant loop What's going on?

Yeah, here we go Malgan's lighting it up And Engvall's going to just blow up Matthews tonight do you know how many Dennis Malkins I've had in my career there we go that is an awesome drop in there Monte

there we go so one guy who is not filling the net like Malkin is Willie Nylander and didn't stop his head coach from really talking about what he wants to see out of him the other day here. How do you think he responds? Tonight he's playing with third line. Yeah, Lafferty and...

Lafferty and... McMahon. McMahon. How does he respond? All of his Matthews got yarn foot and hair croc. With all due respect, those two guys he's playing with ain't helping him get to 40 goals. No.

Well, no. You're right. That's more of a grunt line, no doubt. It's grunty. They're going to need him to shoot it in. I'm asking you, how is he going to respond tonight? Piss and vinegar? I mean, he's never been full of those things on any given night.

But, you know, you just want him engaged, right? You just want him to be a part of it and be going. So, you know, those guys he's with tonight, good skaters both. They both get in after the puck. They both get it. If he can have the puck, you know, we've talked about there's not enough puck to go around when you have a bunch of superstars on the line.

Well, Willie, have it all night long, pal. It's yours. You know who's got a better chance of scoring than Engvall? Is it me? No, McMahon. I think so. You calling your shot here, Kipper, tonight? McMahon, first career goal?

I'm betting McMahon tonight. He's so overdue. Oh, he was on that 2-1-1 with Willie last game where he got a good look at it. Yes, he's getting looks. He scores 18-18 in the AHL, and he gets that look from Willie, and it doesn't go in. He's got to be like, come on. It handcuffed him like a little millimeter. Just had to bring the hands in a little bit.

He's close. Now, all he needs is... I'm betting Bobby tonight and Pierre. All he needs is... Ten bucks on each. Parlay? I know. Now you got Willie, who's arguably the Leafs' second best playmaker.

Yeah. Come on. Should happen tonight. Tonight's Bobby's night. You heard it here. I think, yeah, I do like the idea of having Marner matthews and nylander on three separate lines i it's it would create some matchup issues for some team i think once i think once um uh oh my god riley comes back that you could do willie with him and maybe lafferty or achari or

whatever you want to do with that. Willie with O'Reilly? Yeah, maybe. On a third line? Bill O'Reilly? Heard that name before. I just, listen, a third line checks the crap out of you. A third line doesn't have a guy who blows the zone looking for a breakaway. A third line can do whatever you want it to do.

But they're using... No, no, you can't. It doesn have to check no you do no you don't but they're using do a camp achari and zach aston reese and all the big defensive spots so they're going to use that as their pseudo matchup line historically third lines have been pivotal in the stanley cup playoffs for sure because they frustrate other teams come through with big goals yes yeah but frustrate other teams. Come through with big goals. Yes, but frustrate other teams. Not your own coach? Okay, so Willie's on the fourth line then. He's on the fourth line. Well, that's it.

It's semantics to me. It's like you need good lines. Is that a good line? We've solved nothing. No. Nothing. David Amber's going to settle all of this for us. Help us solve nothing.

Host of Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. We'll get into his game last night plus so much more. You're watching and listening to the Real Kipper and Born Show. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van.

I don't want to hear about it. Oh, you do? I actually work quite a bit, just not on television. Is my next guest ready? All right. We all know what Howard Cosell did all those years for ABC on Monday nights with football. Well, this man's doing the same for Sportsnet on Monday nights. Right.

Been a staple since I started working here. Right. What are we doing here? Let's bring in the man, the myth, the legend, David Amber. Oh, man. I preferred it when you didn't know what night I was on. You hadn't seen me on TV before. You weren't sure who I was.

But he unlocked it. Now you're doing the Howard Cosell bit on me. Come on, Kipper. You're killing me. Listen, Thursdays, we know it was cheers, friends, Seinfeld. Mondays, we know it's you. All right. Well, we're gaining some traction.

No, come on. Last night, buddy had me all night watching Pitt, Ottawa, and Dylan Ferguson get the job done. Now, I know it's house money now for a guy like that, but what he did was still fairly impressive. It was amazing. I love those stories. Even if he didn't have a 48-save first-ever start in the NHL,

basically a huge win for Ottawa and a tough loss for Pittsburgh, even if it wasn't under those circumstances, I just love a guy who gets drafted 100 and whatever it was, 97th overall. He's on his fourth NHL club. You know, he's been up and down through the AHL, ECHL. As he said postgame to Kyle Bacowski, he said, you know, this whole year I've had 48 games on a PTO. I mean, think about that.

This guy's just trying literally to get any opportunity to showcase what he can do and in that setting on that stage to walk in and you know deal with paul of amers malcolm crosby letang and put on the performance you did it's just such a great story i loved it it was really cool like every now and again we do something in sports guys and we're following a storyline and it's just it's a very cool human interest story and last night was one of those stories courtesy of bill and ferguson at the same time d i heard that and i was like 48 games on a pto like that's not right it doesn't seem very fair to me seems like a pretty good goal yeah

well he was just with the lease organization a month ago wasn't he like isn't this that was the last thing i read about him was he was drafted by Dallas. He went to Vegas. He was an emergency fill-in for nine minutes for Vegas one game. That's his only NHL appearance previous to last night. And then he was, I think he somehow meandered from the Leaf organization to the Senator organization. And literally, he's just been bouncing around in the NHL and ECHL. So it's really, really cool. And, you know, you get to see who was so

focused last night. And it was funny, Anson Carter said last night, or maybe Keith said, this could be the next Hamburglar, and we were like 40 minutes into his NHL career at that point. It would be a great storyline if he can continue. I don't know if he's starting tonight. They're now into Boston.

You go from the fire into the inferno, but I don't know if he's getting a back-to-back start after a 48-day performance. It's just on the adrenaline alone. I mean, if I'm DJ Smith, I certainly consider it. Yeah, no kidding. Hey, DA, it was kind of a foregone conclusion before Christmas that playoffs, NHL playoffs include Crosby and Ovechkin,

and now there's a real possibility that that won't be the case. And I know what you're like working with you all these years, man. You like your stars on the big stage, but how surprised are you that Pittsburgh and Washington are now in this position? Well, you know what? If you'd asked me at the start of the year, is it conceivable that one of those two teams,

and maybe even both, don't make the playoffs, I might have said, yeah, I can see that happening because you have these up-and-coming teams, whether it's the Senators or the Sabres, et cetera. But if you'd asked me six weeks ago, based on where Washington was in the standings and where Pittsburgh was, I would have said, no, of course, at least one of them and probably both of them will make the

postseason. So this is a huge shock. You know, Pittsburgh's consistency has been one of the great storylines in all of sport. I mean, no North American pro sports team has a longer stretch of consecutive playoff appearances currently than 16 straight by Pittsburgh. I mean, think about that. I know they have the three Stanley Cups, but it straight by Pittsburgh. I mean, think about that. I know they have the three Stanley Cups,

but it's also they find a way to get into the postseason essentially almost every year of Sidney Crosby's career. So the idea of them not being there, it is a bit shocking. And Washington, it's really, I think it's been just so many injuries for them, right? And maybe this is a bit of a turning over on that roster when you think about Nick Backstrom, you think about the injury to John Carlson, even O.V., who's

never missing games, has missed a series of games with his father's passing away and with a lower body injury more recently. So maybe there's a bit of a change into the guard, and you see these teams like New Jersey, you know, you see these teams on the rise, these burgeoning teams that are ready to sort of say,

well, it's our turn now. So it's great. You have stars. You'll have stars, but you might not have Crosby. You might have Jack Hughes. So maybe you're just changing one star for another star. Yeah. You know, with no stars or different stars in there,

I know another thing that you like to keep tabs on is our Canadian clubs. Boy, Winnipeg's trying to give it away the flames keep tripping over their own shoelaces like ottawa had a moment but then fell fell behind you okay what are your thoughts on these canadian teams who's gonna get in oh man well now you're depressing them i know sorry pal come on didn't we talk about this i told told my therapist I wish we could talk about it, right? Stay away from this subject matter. Listen, I work with you, Borny, on a lot of Tuesdays, and you were sitting there, and I'm like, oh, my God.

It's been a bit of a snail's waste, right? In both conferences. It really has been. I mean, in the last, what, three weeks, especially on the Florida Panthers, has any team in the Eastern Conference on that bubble impressed you guys? I mean, it's been one loss after another. Like, no team has kind of risen up and said,

we need to take this, you know, and run with it. The Islanders have been good. They haven't been great. They've been good. And everyone else has just been meandering along. It's been really, it's been weird to see in a way. Yeah, you know what, listen. Toronto and Edmonton,

two Stanley cup contenders will have to sort of carry the mantle. And I do believe if Winnipeg gets in, and you can probably say this for Calgary too, because if Calgary gets in, that means we're going to have to finish the season like 10 and one. So think about that. If Calgary gets in, clearly they're going to be with a lot of momentum. Markstrom will be playing great. And if Winnipeg gets in, I do think with the makeup they have and we saw what they can do, certainly for the first 50 games of the season, they will be a top out.

And I do think the West is wide open. Colorado's looking amazing right now, guys. But I'm really interested to see how the West is going to be won. Because you look at these teams and they're all so closely stacked. And in any seven-game series, and we even saw this last year, Dallas getting knocked out by Calgary, game seven overtime. L.A. getting knocked out by Edmonton, game seven, right? It's a very, very tight conference.

So I do have some hopes and aspirations for the Canadian teams, but there's certainly not as many teams in the playoff race that we like. You know, it's a bit hard to put my head around it. If you were to ask me who's the most disappointing team this year, I'd usually say it's Calgary. It just has to be. You know, a team that I thought might have been even better than last year's team, but it just hasn't worked out in any fashion.

Oh, man, it didn't worked out in any fashion. Oh, man, it didn't work out last night. They got absolutely spanked in L.A., which suggests that there's some issues going on there, and it's just not Markstrom underachieving. No, and I heard you on, I think it was on yesterday's show, where you reflected on what Kadri getting 13 minutes, right? And then Borny said, yeah, you know, it seems like every single week and every single day,

someone's been Daryl Sutter's doghouse. And I respect the fact that he doesn't play favorites, everyone's held accountable, but it just seems like it's a miserable environment right now. And it's hard maybe to play like that. I mean, you guys can speak to that more than I can, but it's hard maybe to go to the rink. And I know winning cures a lot of that,

but you want to have some upbeat, you want to have some optimism, right? And it just feels like it's a real dark cloud that's just falling around the Calgary Flames pretty much since the start of the season. And this whole notion of, you know, oh, well, the Flames are still in it. Yes, mathematically they are. But I said this the last time I was on your show. They haven't won more than three games in a row all season.

So you're asking them now to somehow close out their season 9-2, 10-1, whatever it's going to take to make the playoffs. That's a tall order for a team that hasn't found any sort of rhythm in their game since the start of the season so um you know i don't have high hopes that calgary's going to do it and i imagine there's going to be a lot of figuring out i don't think they're necessarily going to blow the whole thing up um you know we talked about this when i was on your show one of the times about how much is too much and that was one of the concerns with the maple leafs right they added what six new players

that's a third of their roster like is that too much how's the chemistry one of the concerns with the Maple Leafs, right? They added, what, six new players? That's a third of their roster? Is that too much? How's the chemistry, et cetera, et cetera? And that's sort of what seems like happened in Calgary. They lost their way somehow with Gaudreau leaving and Kachuk leaving. You added some very good players, skilled players, and it just hasn't fit in. It's been like round

pegs and square holes or whatever the case may be. It just has not... The chemistry just hasn't been there, and it's been hard to see you know what's happened in that franchise so far this year do you one of the uh the last times we worked together uh we were discussing tampa bay's defense you may recall and we have text 38 times since and almost came to blows that night um so i i want to get your sense for where you think the leafs are at in terms of their chances i mean i know we're trying to stay generally positive but tampa seems to have taken a little bit of a step back do you believe that they're they're they're vulnerable to this maple

leafs team i would say i like the makeup of the leafs team better than a year ago, more than I would say, oh, Tampa is vulnerable. In other words, I'm just not prepared to sleep on a team that's proven every time we've doubted them, they find a way. What they've put together in the last four years has been incredible. And we can't diminish that. We can't just say, well, they're sliding. I'm not, they're sliding. You know, I'm not saying they're doing a rope-a-dope right now, but they certainly just appear like a team, whether it's a lack of motivation.

I think they see their seeding. What is the motivation for them to go out every night and go crazy to win games? I'm not saying they're not trying to win games, and there could be definitely some fatigue. I know that's a really popular narrative right now, that the team is burnt out when you play 100-plus games, etc. You're playing these incredible spring and playoff games.

I get that. I'm not as worried about Tampa, maybe. And I know you said their defense looked a little shady to you and thin on the blue line. I'm more just impressed by the Leafs, how they were able to, in some respects, change their pushback level, change their identity to some level,

and look like a team much more ready to go into the trenches. Game seven against Tampa wasn't one based on Kucherov or Stamkos or Hedman. It was one, essentially, Nick Paul scoring two goals and them grinding out the game. And I think the Leafs now are more prepared to grind out a Game 7 type game if it comes down to that with Tampa.

So I do have a great level of optimism about this Toronto team this year. We're talking to David Amber, host of Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. Regardless if Toronto or Tampa advance, I mean, are we going to see any type of hiccup down the stretch here still out of the Boston Bruins, or is it just a foregone conclusion that they're going to go into the playoffs

historically one of the best teams? Yeah, you know what, Kipper, I mean, you guys have talked about this a lot on your show. I don't see a weakness on that team. Maybe the one weakness is they will not have faced really any adversity this season. The adversity they faced was at the start of the year.

McAvoy was out, and Marchand was out, and I think maybe Crate, she was out. I can't even remember. They had a few significant injuries to start the season. That didn't faze them at all. And they've just been carrying that momentum through. You know, they've clinched the playoff spot, what, two weeks ago now? So, and they've basically, you know, they know when they're going to be the top spot in the NHL for some time.

So, I'm just wondering, is that going to be an issue? Where you have other teams, you know, jockeying for home ice advantage. You know, you have the New York Rangers fighting tooth and nail right now to try and get into the number two slot. You know, is that going to be a situation where teams are playing really meaningful, hard hockey at the end of the year and Boston is resting guys at this point? I wonder.

And I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm just wondering if that's going to be an issue. The way it was an issue for Tampa Bay when they had that 128-point season and then they got swept by Columbus, right? It just felt like they were on cruise control for a long time, and then it was like, okay, let's ratchet it up. It's playoff time, and they weren't able to ratchet it up. So, I don't know.

Listen, Boston looks great, but, you know, history says what? I think only a handful of times in the last 10 years has the team with the best record won, you know, the Stanley Cup. I mean, Florida had 122 points last year, and they didn't last very long in the playoffs, right? So, you know, Boston looks like a very solid team, but I think there's incredible parity in the leaders here. Nick, your cup team was a President's Trophy winning team, I believe, right?

In 94? Yes. Did you feel like you had some adversity? You guys added some players at the trade deadline. There was a little bit of and you had Mike Keenan there making sure he hated our regular season team even though we were in first overall.

Tough crowd. I don't know. To me me this is what's going to make this tournament and we'll call it a tournament but the family cup players are going to be exceptional the first round is going to be i mean our minds are going to be blown i imagine i mean there are me at least i don't know how you guys feel but if there's 10 teams that if they won the family cup i'm not not shocked. I'm not shocked, right? Like, I wouldn't be, you know, like, blown away if, you know, even like a team like L.A., as much as they sleep and they're under the radar and no one really talks about them, they have the best record, I think, over the last six weeks of the season or something.

Yeah, New Jersey, Vegas, there's a lot of teams you'd be like, yeah, I can see it. Yeah, I mean, Edmonton is 19-5-5 in their last 29 games. I know they're a flawed team. I know they're going to go into the playoffs with Stuart Skinner an unproven guy with no playoff experience as a goalie. I get all that. But at the end of the day, I call him

a huge void for them. Oh, that was good last night, too. Oh, my God. He was stepped in on that slap shot from eight years. That's fantastic. Playing from your tee boxes, DA. That shot. Yeah, that's what I need.

That's what I need to be hitting the tee box on, right? I want one up from the red. Whoever the red is, I want in front of that. I'm trying to get pretty nose. Hey, JB, did I ever tell you the time I jimmied the water fountain in the CBC building? We had a makeup room. No. We had a water fountain in the dress, in the makeup room.

Yeah. Like any water fountain you'd find in a high school hallway. Yeah. But I could jimmy it so when someone goes to get a drink, it comes out like a fire hose. You get DA pre-show or what? Well, buddy, he looked like he just got electrocuted. Oh, my God. When you work with Kipper, you have to be on high alert.

I'm watching the games. I think I'm eating popcorn. I'm minding my own business. He comes up right behind me and smashes a paper bag, right? He says, I'm going to bomb going off. I jumped about four feet in the air, and Elliot's taping the whole thing. I'll find it. I'll send it to you, JB.

You're getting bullied. You're getting bullied. I'm not surprised to hear this. You're getting bullied by Kipper. Yeah, pretty much. We had some good laughs. Yeah, we sure did. Hey, DA.

Great stuff today. Thanks for joining us, man. Yeah, anytime. Thanks sure did. Hey, DA. Great stuff today. Thanks for joining us, man. Yeah, anytime. Thanks for having me on, fellas. Enjoy the game. All right. He is David Amber of Monday Night Fame on Sportsnet. Do you want to, before we go to break,

just get Sheldon Keefe on playing good teams down the stretch? Yeah, I think that's worthwhile. They're going to see one tonight, I think, for sure. Yeah, the opponents demand it. We've played a lot of good hockey teams here of late, whether it's teams that are firmly in but are at the top of the league and have

a lot of elite players that keep you on your toes, or teams like an Ottawa team the other night that's desperate and fighting for their lives. And then you've got a team here at the Islanders that have really done a good job of putting themselves in a good position, and obviously they want to hang on to that.

So another important tough road trip here for us in terms of the volume of games, the quality competition and all that. So you want to get off to a good start to it. And David Amber just talked about it moments ago like it's it's unpredictable here because we're seeing some teams limp we're seeing some guys that should show up that don't like calgary like is there a bigger game of their season than last night to go and push winnipeg also yeah nothing well that's that it's not just losing it's losing like that like it just looks like something's wrong right you know today is they play again tonight i think in anaheim but you need that one tonight you shouldn't use an excuse

like you're fatigued or tired like that shouldn't come into play the other team hasn't played 70 games this year you know so you got to think that the islanders are a very desperate team tonight you've got to think that it's just a foregone conclusion hey at the end of the day they just may not have the game breakers to keep up with Matthews and Marner and Nylander tonight. But they should be able to, at the end of the night, you should be able to go, hey, listen, they fell short. There's something not there, but effort-wise and focus and all of that should not be an issue.

What I like about it for the Leafs, I think it's important to play some good teams down the stretch, teams that are really giving you their best efforts. You're going to get that from the Isles tonight. But what I like about it is the Isles protect the middle pretty well. You know, they got, you know, he mentioned Pellick and Pollock and, you know, Dobson, he said, hasn't had a great year. But, you know, they got a number of d-men that really do defend well and they're

going to make it a challenge to get to the inside that to me is the defining thing with this group of toronto maple leafs is when it gets hard to get to the front of the net do you have people who get there anyway in the past the answer's been no you know maybe tonight is not the be all end all for proving it but we're getting to that time of year where it's prove it time. And I know you guys will call me super fan Sammy for saying this take, but it's one I believe in that the Leafs don't get a lot of off nights in terms of teams efforts. I agree with that. The Leafs are a marquee franchise in the NHL.

Yeah. The most covered team, most covered team at times, the most hated. Oh, at times I would say the most loved and most hated at the exact same time. They hate us because they ain't us. Correct.

But I think, I do think that the Leafs have to play a lot more high intensity games than a lot of teams do. Yeah. I don't know if that's nuts. No, no, no. I truly believe that. San Jose gets some sleepier teams over the course of a season. Yeah. Like the Leafs have to, you know, I't think ottawa is playing the way they did on saturday night if they're playing you know the the i don't know who i just think a lot of these guys too know that like you know the the voters for trophies the people who judge them and talk

about them there there just is more in this market and it's half the half the league's hometown too right like everybody comes back here and their grandpa's half the league's hometown, too. Right. Like, everybody comes back here and their grandpa's in the crowd eating Timbits. You know, like, oh, we got our old Meemaws out there. We got to go prove it. So, not to get ahead of ourselves here, but after the Islanders are looking over their shoulders tonight with Florida and Pitt, then you got Florida on Thursday. Yeah, a couple of good matchups this week who saw that i for one did not i had florida dead in the water oh you had a month ago well you had him dead in the water frankly a month into the season we called it and

yes we were right and you know they they are finding it here a little bit of are they they're they're also finding it because like everyone's falling yeah everybody's like no one is running away with it either that's the tiger woods victory where you know you don't always have to be the best if everyone's falling down around you kind of like scotty sheffler recently everybody just kind of falling back and he's like yeah i'll just i'll just couple down i'll just keep making birdies um i think remember we used we were having the conversations about them trading that first round pick and it being like in the bedard sweepstakes at one point like they were way down the stand that's right too i forgot about that was montreal has their pick yeah they were like

fifth or sixth worst team in the league at points throughout this year yeah if you're the habs you don't love the the push they're making i will say that florida panthers the one thing about them is they do have some unique characteristics they're not like an average team that's sneaking in they are among the elite offensive teams in the nhl like it's the oilers it's well i mean it's basically the oilers in florida offensively devils too barkov and matthew kachuk they're obviously now but they they they had some guys that did it last year so yeah and that shouldn't shouldn't come at a huge surprise no i guess not you know they i'm just looking at like a sport logic graph of expected goals for and against like florida grades out pretty darn. They're still a pretty good team offensively.

Not great defensively, but good offensively. It certainly happens that helps that you have Matthew Kachuk just having an unbelievable season. Like, they, I feel Vitt indicated saying that they won that trade when it happened. They absolutely won that trade. Getting a Kachuk. Yes.

They got, like, a top 10 guy in the league in that trade. He's excellent. His job was to drag him into the fight, and he did that from day one. He's got 100 points this year yet? He's high. I would say he's in the 85-point range. Matthew Kachuk has 95 points. Oh, so 10 more.

Fourth in the NHL. Yeah, that's unbelievable. And considering the way he plays, too, that's two more the pasternak he's ahead of mckinnon marner you know like some players he's yeah what's he making nine and a half i think i think under 10 but it's considered like florida money it's like 20 million in florida oh yeah so he signed a eight-year 9.5 contract. He signed it with the Flames. They traded him after they signed it so he could get the extra year. But, like, that's an awesome contract.

That contract is never going to look bad. Agreed. That's a great deal. Love the guy. And it's like making an extra two. Maybe more in New York. Yeah. I don't know about Toronto anymore.

Cost of living, taxes. For sure. Yeah, he's loving life. Let you say that. Well, one of the reasons why they're in is because Pittsburgh is out. So we're going to join Rob Rossi after the break, senior writer for The Athletic, based in Pittsburgh. What is going on there?

I'm looking. I'm watching the game last night with David Amber, and I see empty seats. I'm like, oh. Problem. problems we'll get into it with rob after the break you're watching and listening to real kipper and born back after these words get smarter when you listen to hockey talk the hockey pdo cast with dimitri filipovich subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 the van

one of the bigger stories this week is the fact that the Pittsburgh Penguins no longer hold a playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. So let's welcome in Rob Rossi, senior hockey writer for The Athletic, based in Pittsburgh. Rob, thanks for joining us, man. How are you? Oh, I'm great, guys. Out here in Denver waiting for practice to start.

Nice. Let's start with last night. 2-1 loss to the Ottawa Senators where the Penguins played well enough to win. And if you heard those post-game comments from Coach Sullivan and Sid, some maybe moral victory in some capacity there. But are fans buying it? or are there real concerns today? There's concern and there's anger.

It's about a week before the trade deadline, the fan base turned on this management team, especially Ron Hextall, and now that things have kind of gone the way they've gone, there's a lot of anger. I mean, there's a whole generation of Penguin fans that came up with the Sidney Crosby era that don't know anything like this. They've only known sustained success, so I'm not even sure they can be expected to handle it.

I mean, they've kind of been living a charmed life. But I think there's concern in the room, too. I mean, they're down four of their top six defensemen right now. They're not getting any secondary scoring all year. As I like to tell people, they've basically been playing with six forwards, two defensemen, and no dependable goaltending, which is a tough way to live in the NHL. And now one of those defensemen is hurt with Marcus Pedersen. So, I mean, it's a concern, and they've got a gauntlet here this week. They've got Colorado tomorrow night.

Next night they're in Denver, and then they've got the Washington Capitals coming to town Saturday. Even though the Capitals are out of the playoffs right now, that will be a game that the Capitals will have circled. So how much of this is fans' frustration with management, which happens in all cities, I think, when teams are you know supposed to be good and miss the playoffs versus there could be real change i know ownership there in pittsburgh

changed i don't know how involved they would be what is your sense of if there's potential for real change at the higher positions there with the penguins really good question it's also very tough one to answer because it's an ownership group that is different. I mean, if this were still the Mario Lemieux-led ownership group, I would say change would be coming. But Fenway Sports Group is, you know, they're not really based in Pittsburgh. I think they're still trying to wrap their heads around what it's like to own a hockey team. You know, this is their first full season as owners. Yeah. So, but you know, look,

missing the playoffs, I think anything but trading Crosby Malkin and Latang is on the table. I would think Mike Sullivan is safe because they signed him to a three-year extension and he had two years left coming into this season. But I certainly think you could see a management change. I don't have any intelligence that tells me that's definitely going to happen, but it sort of feels like when the fan base is this angry, if they would miss the playoffs or they would get in and get their doors blown off,

you know, you got to start thinking about what your season ticket holders are going to do too. So Rob, where's the dynamic between Brian Burke and Ron Hextall? When I look at this lineup and Brian Burke's been there a few years now, it doesn't really shape up to me as a Brian Burke kind of roster through and through. So how has that worked out between the two of them? I can't really get anybody to tell me what Brian does other than sort of advise. And, I mean, you know, Nick, I'm like you.

I look at this roster. I look at the moves they made at the deadline bringing in Mikael Granlund. That's not a Brian Burke-type player. So somebody told me last year at the deadline last season that Hextall's the guy in charge. He's the one dictating everything and calling all the shots. So I got to put this at the feet of Hextall.

I think this is his team. This is the way he's built it. It's in his vision. If it's Brian Burke, I'll say this. If it is Brian Burke that has a lot of influence, he's doing things that are not consistent with what he's always done in the NHL. I think you'll agree with me. influence. He's doing things that are not consistent with what he's always done in the NHL. I think you'll agree with me. Berkey's not really one to change his philosophy on what a winning hockey team looks like. No, I think he's fairly entrenched in his viewpoints of what's successful

in the NHL. So, you know, what is it with the depth scoring that they, you know, like Kapanen they tried and didn't quite take, like they just keep trying, guys. I know in the past guys have played with Crosby and found success. Is it purely injuries? Is it luck? Is it just bad selection of these guys? Why can't they find someone? They're just not good enough at the bottom six. I mean, you're talking about a lot.

But, I mean, with all due respect to these players, their third line last night was Drew O'Connor, Ryan Poling, and Granlund on the wing. And they had Jeff Carter centering a fourth line, and they had Josh Archibald and Danton Heinen on the wings. And that just doesn't measure up. You know, I was in New York last week covering a couple games in Madison Square Garden,

and you look at the depth the Rangers have up front compared to what the Penguins have. If you look at the Penguins' depth, I mean, they've got a great top six. It's a fantastic top six. It rivals any top six in the league. Really, it truly does. But they have not been able to fill out

the bottom part of the roster, and they haven't been able to really figure out the depth on defense after Chris LeTang and Marcus Pedersen, who they tried to trade last summer. And look, we can talk about that all the time, too. The bottom line is their goaltending hasn't been up to par all season. And I don't know

any team that can win when your goaltending is hovering around the 900 save percentage mark. They're not good enough in net. The question prior to the season in the offseason was on Malkin and Letang and bringing them back, and if they're too old.

Between Sid and Malkin and Letang, they're the least of the worries here. How do you think this is sitting with Sidney, who's still very much in the prime of his career? I don't think this is sitting very well with any of them. They're saying the right things publicly, but I've, you know, I've not every game because I've missed some over the years, but I've covered every season of those three being together. This is the 17th, and I can tell you that their body language is

we're doing everything we can, like, help us out. And I think those guys, about a week before the deadline, you know, after they got their doors blown off against Edmonton at home, I think those guys, from what I understand, pretty much planted the flag in the ice and said, look, we're going to play well enough to force management to do some things. But I think when management went out and did the things they did, it deflated the room a bit.

You know, they were on a 7-1 and 1-1 before this four-game losing streak, but it was kind of a mirage. And, you know, speaking specifically to Sid, you know, guys, he's so great at the front-facing public part of this, but the one thing he's never been able to conceal is when he doesn't think he's got a shot, you know, when he doesn't think he's got a shot. You know, when he doesn't think that he's on a team that's real competitive. It hasn't happened much to him here.

It was his rookie year that that happened. 16 in a row, correct? 14th season. But it's just not a, it's not something that he's comfortable with. So, you know, in a situation like that, it almost feels like he holds the cards, doesn't he? Like he's the one saying, like, if he wanted change, if he wanted something different, do you think he has the kind of power to dictate that?

And again, maybe the new ownership makes that challenging, but typically a player like that would hold a lot of the cards, wouldn't he? Well, I don't believe that Hextall wanted to sign. But based off my intelligence, I never believed that Hextall wanted to sign Letang and Malkin. Crosby wanted both of those guys back, and it happened. I mean, he's the most important asset in the organization. He's maybe the most important person in the history of the organization.

I say that with respect to Lemieux because Crosby's carrying the team going forward. And, you know, I think ownership is going to include him in decisions. I mean, he doesn't want to leave. He wants to finish his career here. He's repeatedly said that. He'll have two years left on his contract after this season, which means he can put the pedal to the metal there to the Penguins'

ownership, right? He can say, look, you got one season to show me you can fix this, which is why I think anything's on the table except the big three being broken up. Which means no one's really safe there other than the three that you mentioned, including Hextall, Brian Burke, anyone else from top to bottom. Could be me. I don't know. I could be out.

Is there a chance that this team has enough with those guys? They get into playoffs. They finish in the first wildcard spot. Like, could you see it coming together for this group? Absolutely not. They're just too deficient on the bottom six. Their defense is too soft, and they have no goaltending. I mean, I just can't stress that enough.

Yeah, okay. They just don't have the goaltending to go into a series. And, you know, I mean, Tristan Jari's been pulled from four of his last 11 starts. I mean, it's just, you know, it's just, I mean, I can't see them. Normally I'd like to say yes, and I will. The caveat here is anybody that bets against Crosby doesn't get rich. But he's only one man him him

Malcolm and Letang are only three players and unfortunately this isn't a video game they have to take rest during games hey Rob I'm a big Mike Sullivan fan I think he's a heck of a coach and he finds ways to squeeze and get results here um where is he in all of this? Outside of, you know, Sid, I got to think that, you know, he's solidified there, is he not? I believe so. I mean, ownership is really fond of him. Like I said, he had two years left on his deal after this season,

and they gave him a three-year extension. He's one of the higher-paid coaches in the league. He's a Boston guy. The owners are from Boston. I think his track record speaks for itself. He's taken some criticism here in Pittsburgh for some of the ways he's used people, some of the ways he's deployed guys like Jeff Carter and Brian Dumoulin. At the end of the day, a coach can only coach the roster he's had.

The Penguins have been so up against the salary cap all year that he didn't really have a lot of roster maneuverability. And, you know, I'm probably in the minority here amongst the media in town, but I think if they would somehow get this team into the playoffs, short of winning the Cups, it would be the crowning achievement of Crosby, Malkin, LePang, and Sullivan because it would almost be purely on the strength of leadership of those four.

We're talking to Rob Rossi who covers the Pittsburgh Penguins for The Athletic. One more for me, Rob, before I let you go, and that's empty seats. Did I see that correctly? Was my TV out of focus here? Like the overall vibe right now, now yes there's pissed off fans but are there some that are uh you know is there apathy setting in i don't think there's apathy um that was a tough game because they had had a five game homestand the week before and then that game got planted in in the middle of two games in new y and two games in Dallas and Denver, which, you know, you know how that works.

Sometimes you play a weird home game on a Monday night. Ottawa's not a huge draw. You know, they're still averaging about 17.5, between 17.5 and 18.00. That's not capacity, but this isn't the biggest market in the world. I think the fact that their fans are still so angry is a good sign, but I think that's something ownership has to consider. Will they turn apathetic? Most of the season, this wasn't the case Monday night,

but most of the season the empty seats have been in the sort of people that paid for the pricier seats and didn't show up. That was not the case last night. They just didn't sell those seats. And, again, that's why I think ownership's going to have to take a hard look at this because when you have a fan base that has on multiple occasions showed up to chant fire the GM by name, that's not exactly what you want

when you're sending out season ticket renewals. No doubt about that. Hey, Rob, really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, gentlemen. Talk soon. Yeah, thanks so much. Senior writer with The Athletic

based out of the Pittsburgh area. And Sammy, 16 in a row. I just can't get over the question, like, could they come together to get Crosby, Malkin? No, it can't come together. They've made the playoffs 16 years in a row, have they not? I think it was since after Sid's rookie year, right? I'm just looking it up right now.

So Sid's 18 years. This is his 18th year. He missed the first year. 16 successful in between. Adds up. It's pretty good. It is a 18th year. He missed the first year. 16 successful in between. Adds up. It's pretty good. It is a pretty good run. If I recall, the two longest records in the NHL recently,

I think the Red Wings, what were they? Like 25? Yeah, they were up there. And the Blues were way up there, too, and they won their cup. They were at like their 17th year or something like that. So, which when you consider there's 32 teams in and only 16, it's like a big accomplishment.

Oh my God. To be the top part of half of the league for every year of a multi-decade career. It's unbelievable. It truly is. I, you know, that's a,

I think it's a huge, obvious point of pride for sid oh yeah this is big for him to get in i think like even if they get in and get their doors blown off but just to be able to say you made the playoffs and i listen this is never in just to be sammy like and want to win a first round no i know he's not but like in the back of his mind you give him the truth serum you'd rather be in there and have a tough first round series and not be in there at all i think he knows his team's not very good he has to know he knows that he's a very very smart hockey player he knows that his team stinks there's no doubt just so hard when you have a good top six to

believe that you can't win like they're gonna play the death out of him and whoever you know that group up against you get the first wild card spot and it's carolina or it's jersey it's a lot different than if it's boston yeah boston's mopping them malkin's been good too yeah i watched him last night point per game he's over a point per game this year. Yeah, he's been really good. He's lived up to wanting to come back and get paid. Yeah. Peak Malkin, to me, is as good as a hockey player can look. I think that's as close to Mario in our generation with just the big guy strides.

Loved him. Yeah, and it's competitive. Listen to Rob talk about Grandland, who they picked up at the trade deadline. Angley and yeah. Loved him. Yeah. And it's, you know. Competitive. Listen to Rob talk about Grandland, who they picked up at the trade deadline. Yeah. Being un-Brian Burke-ish. Yeah. Right?

That dynamic's weird. So there's no question that this is all on Ron Hextall. Interesting quote about Burke-y, eh? Like eh like you know like the role of president is has never been meant to be co-gm right like the idea typically it hasn't brendan shanahan would be very involved with kyle dubas but i think this is a new thing in the last like 10 years where you have presidents that are like looking over the gm shoulder be like what are you doing there yeah gun to your head who's the gm of the colorado avalanche you got sackick and i don't know the name of the guy yeah but it's not it's not joe sackick right right i mean you see it here in

toronto with messiah jiri and poor bobby webster everyone's like oh messiah it's like i'm bobby's like i'm the gm the trades i'm the one who makes the dumb trades it's not like brendan i'm sure is following around kyle dubas all day like brendan as a president would be involved in like a ton of other things besides rosters when you're the president of a billion dollar organization season tickets and marketing and alumni and all of it charitable events and music oh yeah i mean everything though But this is I imagine As it gets away from the GM The president feels a little bit more

Yes It's like a parent when your kid's acting up And all of a sudden you're like what are you doing now Oh listen The trade deadline had Brendan Shanahan's Fingerprints all over it Come on

But were the Penguins the ones that were going to trade For JT Miller Brendan Shanahan's fingerprints all over it. Come on. Of course it did. But were the Penguins the ones that were going to trade for JT Miller? Yes. They supposedly had inquired. Weren't they going to offer a couple of picks? Can't fit it in. They're in jail.

Are they? With a salary cap. Yeah, I don't think it's pretty. You're not getting in his eight million heinan paling o'connor archibald grandland it's lean so their d pairs right now are pierre oliver joseph and chris letang brian dumoulin and chad ruedel mark Friedman and Taylor Fadun. Yeah. Whomst? Correct.

It's hard to pinpoint exactly what responsibilities come with that title. I think it varies by organization. L.A. L.A. I would see Luke Robitaille having a real firm grasp on decisions that Rob Blake's made. And by the way, they've been pretty good lately. Couldn't tell you which ones. Blake's the president and Robitaille's the GM? Other way around. Robitaille's the president.

Luke's the president. Sure. Blake. Yep, I knew that. Also one of the best. You put the kids to bed and then you go to bed right after. One of the all-time great interviews on Real Kiprem Born. Robitaille.

It was unbelievable. I forgot about that. With his draft year. One of the best all-time. You want to go back and revisit the Edmonton game? I do. Yeah, I watched a lot of that last night. I want to go back and talk about two defensemen, but first, Eric Carlson.

Yeah, he was really... A lot of things. Yes. Entertaining is the biggest one I could think of. He is... He's breathtaking. So good. He's so good.

All right. And... But... And, you know, there is an element. It's crazy. Like, I am a member of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, and I vote on the major trophies. I will be voting on the Norris trophy this year as I have for,

I don't know, 10 years, whatever it's been. And Carlson gives me fits because his team is crap. And you do tend to play different on a crappy team. Well, the wins are less important. And so last night in overtime,

he makes the dumbest decision where the puck's in the corner he's the last guy back nurse is leaving the zone and he turns in to the offensive zone like he maybe i'll get the puck here and it's less than a 50 50 battle it's like a 30 70 battle edmonton gets the puck they go the other way and they score and okay it doesn't matter for to san jose they don't care they're not trying to win anyway but it's so tough to vote for a guy who doesn't care about he was on the ice all night he's exhausted he scored twice he scored the most unbelievable fake shot the fake slapper oh my lord it's just yeah what he's doing is not like you want to vote for the guy who helps his team win? He scores 100 points?

I said a month and a half ago, I don't think he should win the Norris based on the fact that his team's just been out since October. I'm not that guy. I watched him last night. Now you think he should win the Norris? I'm changing my mind, I think. I mean, good i mean i'm leaning

towards him listen you're you're playing against another desperate team in edmonton and you're playing against two of the best players on the planet and you can still look like that it's something to be said about being the best defenseman over the course of he has 11 games right now he's at 1.23 points per game he has 11 games left so call it 15 points that would leave him with 102 points and his five on five numbers are really good too yeah like he's uh just looking at it right even strength points he is first oh he is 66 even strength points points. And isn't McDavid at like, I don't know, he's not that far past him. Anyway. He, sorry, just looking at it right here.

Connor McDavid has 69 nice even strength points. And Eric Carlson has 66. You have three fewer points than the greatest player on earth. Three prime seasons. And he's three up on Kachuk. Four up on Nathan McKinnon. And he's three up on kachuk uh four up on nathan mckinnon and he's 23 up on the next best d-man so it's blinding to me it's like he is unbelievable he's kale mccarr all over again you know who's having a soup just does not care about defense well and it it's

like they stink. I know. They're so bad, San Jose. So he's incentivized to take that chance because they'd rather get a high pick anyway. Yeah, listen, it's like watching a guy say he should be the MVP and you're like one of the worst teams in the league. It's like I can be one of the worst teams in the league without you. Right?

I can easily stink as bad as we stink now call that the mike trout syndrome listen i'm gonna vote for him i think i think i have to yeah listen i i i get it like adam fox the thing the car the underrated the underrated season to me and i see the canucks guys always talking about it is quinn hughes yeah i'm torn on it. He's playing 25 minutes a night. He's a plus 16, 65 points in 65 games. He's awesome in every direction. They're horrible. I know. They're just as horrible as the Sharks are. Well, maybe not.

It's funny he's plus 16. Carlson's minus 14. Every year. It's time of year. There's always some team that just looks lights out. And it's the Canucks this year. It's always the Canucks, by the way. Every year. And good one the canucks it's always the canucks by the way every year and good good one guys there's only the you know the next conor mcdavid in the draft that's from your town that wants to play for you that you fired your coach and got good for no goddamn

reason i was smart you idiots i was really smart ah it looks tough now you mentioned goaltending for edmonton skinner so it's skinners right it's oh it's skinner so campbell's deal is five times five this is year one yeah my real kipper and born prediction is that he doesn't finish that contract on the oilers anyway and whoever pays him in the last year is not paying for the whole ticket. Bakersfield? Is he going to finish it? I just, I mean, you watched that game last night. He gave up four, but he had three called back, two or three called back that went through him.

He gets small. He was awful. He was just awful last night. And it's just, it's not getting better. You guys know how much pride and enjoyment which is sad i understand that but i don't have a lot as a leaf fan i took in the earlier in the season when he was getting lit up yes i feel awful i feel none of that i know you should feel shame no i just i feel so bad for the man he's the richest man ever that I feel bad for. He just is not good.

And you know what? After watching him from December on in Toronto, now we're 15 months later, and he hasn't been good for two weeks since. But you mentioned the five-year deal. Like, if you're in this predicament this time next year you don't you can't let a guy just hang in there until you get to year four to the buy it out or trade half of it or like oh my god you may have to make some tough decisions as early as next year if if he cannot turn this thing around you just don't pay your backup five mil look at his and again really like the guy and so i don't want this to be personal he's just he's been really bad

his personal no no i know his goals against in the last seven games three four four six four six four and this is like him finding it like you know after an earlier stretch i don't know he did have a good stretch he did have a decent stretch where he was above 900 for four or five straight games jay wadecroft to say he's great and don't worry about the numbers you know the numbers may not look great but i thought he was great his 714 save percentage on february 25th against columbus it looks bad yeah i know the numbers don't look good. Just one more thought on this game, and you mentioned it already, the disallowed goals. And I'm not talking about even if they're legit or not.

I'm just saying that I'm so tired of now feeling like a goal is never a goal. I know. And we have to wait and wait and wait. And the video, the whole thing on the video was for egregious calls. And we are watching like a splinter of an offside. Yeah. And I'm just like, can we do something about it? Like, if we went back in history

and we took away all the goals that were offside by a whisker. Yeah. We're talking about thousands of goals. Oh, yeah. I would love to go back. We should do that. Thousands.

That's a project, boys, this weekend. I'll do it while I'm in Arizona. Watch hundreds of clinching goals in the playoffs and see what happens. Bobby Neistat from the Islanders, cup winner. It's not supposed to be within a hair our side or not. And I know that

we all are about now, hey, just get the call right. Right? It's black and white. Right? Wrong. There's only one way to go about this.

Do you want to hear the most insane stat of the season? I think you do. Oh, I'd love to. Zach Hyman has seven disallowed goals this year. Seven? Seven. To go with his 30. He scored seven goals that have been disallowed goals this year. Seven? Seven. So he scored seven goals that have been disallowed? That have been called back that aren't currently on his stats.

Wow, that is mind-blowing. I'm going to throw something out at you guys, okay? I'm not asking the league to change any rules at all. Keep everything the way it is. Okay. Except for one difference. Okay? The video nerds are not allowed to call into the bench.

No beaner? You want to call it, you call it from the bench. You know, I took great pride as a player to call, like, offsides. I was the guy. Oh, you're the worst. You're the worst guy on the bench. I would stand up and I would call an official's offside or not. I love that.

Okay. And even if they're not, it puts them in their brain. They were so pissed off at me by the end of the game. It's like, I called three of them, man. You missed. Thanks for your help. Like, you call it. You know what's happening now is every time the video guys come in,

the technology now they know it's done. Yeah. If they're calling it, it's no goal. It's the Hawkeye system, right? Every time they get scored on, you look at the entry in the player. It's part of the job. You guys want to call. You think it's offside.

You call it on your bench. You got seven people there. You know what I think? You got videos already there. Have a quick look you call it on your bench you got seven people there you know what i think you got videos already there have a quick look call it from your bench do not have anybody hawkeye this thing how about this love it and i think we should do away with all screens on the bench no no ipad that'd be fine no like the coach has a screen to watch a replay or whatever get rid of those hockey games i'm with you. I'm with him. Dinosaur.

What about the big-ass screen at every rink in the world? The Jumbo Troll? How about you just look at that one? Yeah, I mean, I guess there's that opportunity to glance up and try to catch something still, but part of it is like them dragging their feet before lining up for a draw to give the video coach time to get a couple of views. It's like, like yeah it's just i agree last real time make the decision what'd you think yeah last night i'm really enjoying

eric carlson and you know and then matias that home show which we're going to talk about next yeah but and then you're got to like oh oh all right but to me this is the nfl now where literally every play you're like oh it's complete downfield let's find out if that was actually a play or not a play i hate that it's every play it's true sucks i hate that i really do hate that and it's i do have every deep ball it's like half them not even trying to catch just trying to draw a flag i do i will admit that when i'm watching the least game like a big goal the first thought that like crosses my mind is nice. They scored.

But I don't think as a league, I don't think that's what you want. No, you want fans to have the climax. Like joy. Yeah. Enjoy the moment. Yes. Not like, was that good? Did we do good?

Are we allowed to think that's good? So the app that I built, like helped build. You know, you built it. I built it i built it which you own so when when a team scores our app gives points away wow but then it gets called back and i'm i'm talking to our our geeky tech guy i'm like get those points back get them back we can't give away free currency get them back we didn't invent that so before we get to echo him if matt duchesne never goes offside that crazy play yes we're not in this mess would

this ever have happened i don't know but that play is still one of the most bizarre ones ever he just takes it and pots it upstairs before that play i didn't even know what the word egregious was that's the only reason i had to look it up in the dictionary both merriam and webster i no i i honestly don't know if we'd be here it's weird it's a it's a funny you mentioned you mentioned echo oh boy he's pretty good pretty good takes one of the house on his back end and puts it through but he's like rhymer he's like game of thrones good he changed he changed their whole thing he's the mountain he's just got that look on his face you're're like, that guy would suck to play against.

One guy changes a ton. Changed the Oilers a great deal. I still am, like, a little bit disheartened by what the Oilers, like, I've been talking up the Oilers for a long time here and really kind of. They're 19-5-5, you said, didn't you? What? Oilers. Record. 19-5-5?

Yeah. What are you talking about? Their last 20. Oh, I don't know. I didn't mean to say that if I did. Did you say no i didn't say i don't know what are they they're really good though are they okay that's good why are you disappointed not talking them up they they were crumbs last night they weren't they weren't any good all right they gotta be great everyone well we never get what is that

in what their division they're they're in third in their division. They're still chasing. With their record. All right. Well, it's fine. I'll get you answers here, Kevin. The Oilers are 8-2 and 0 in their last 10. Four straight wins. And 20?

I don't know. We don't know that. That one's not available on Hentra.com. That's math. They're good. They're good. Okay. They're good.

So I just thought last night they looked really dicey against the San Jose Sharks. Okay. Kadri, I mentioned, David Amber mentioned it listening to our show yesterday. 12 minutes the other night. 12 minutes last night. 12 minutes last night again. 12. Not much more than 12.

Yeah. And there is some speculation him and Daryl maybe not seeing eye to eye. There's some speculation blank in Daryl not seeing eye to eye. Like who is his advocate there? Is Tree Living and him close enough that? Yeah, Kadri played 1235 last night. He's a dash two. Well everyone is dash oh yeah we lost eight two kings yeah yeah great effort by the way flames yeah you're not out of it but i know that's

the thing you talk about like oh the oilers might have to make a decision on campbell sooner it's like i know sutter has this deal but like i have not spoken to anyone near that organization who hasn't said that things are an issue with him. So, yeah, there's a lot of unhappy guys there for sure. Last night, put them in the red for the first time in gold differential. Minus one on the season. Like, at some point, you know, he's the guy. He's a classic short shelf life guy. He is. He gets a burst out of his group and then he can't sustain it. We talk about this's the guy. He's the classic short shelf life guy. He is.

He gets a burst out of his group, and then he can't sustain it. We talk about this all the time. Him torts was like that forever, where he'd go somewhere, and they'd get the immediate kick. You know, it's just, it's really, I would, you'd hate playing for him. Yeah. You'd hate it. Does not sound like guys are having a.

And when you're. He fully loves him. Oh, yeah. Well, he plays him, what does does he play him 18 minutes a night? Yeah. Won the cup together. Like I said yesterday, if you played on the 2012 Kings, you're getting ice time.

Yeah. Look out, Jared Stoll's going to come play the third line for him. Yeah, no, that seems like a frustrating situation. Winnipeg's frustrating, too. You know, they can't really get any traction. But who's going to catch him? Well, it's the Flames of Nashville behind him. Exactly. situation winnipeg's frustrating too you know they they can't really get any traction so but who's gonna catch them well it's the flames in nashville behind them exactly nashville nashville's got the best winning percentage you know better than calgary god they got smoked earlier they

lost by a touchdown for the rangers they're awful they're a bad team so can the least just go back to the old days and get back into the West next year? Wouldn't that be awful? No. All those starting times. Yeah, they'd love that travel. Oh, yeah. I'm sure they'd eat sushi on their private jet.

They'd be crying. How good do we think LA is after watching them last night? Really good. Yeah, they're good. I think I wouldn't, you know, I don't think they'll necessarily win the Stanley Cup, but if you're out there looking for a value pick to put a couple of your hard-earned shekels on,

I wouldn't be opposed to it. All right, so you got... I don't think they're going to win, but necessarily... This Pacific Division's tight. You got LA over Edmonton in the first round. I would not bet against it. Right now, Vegas has 92 points. LA has 92 points. edmonton has 88 points

all three teams have 11 to 12 games each mcdavid oh sorry vegas ain't winning the division no they're the worst of those three teams and mcdavid's just overwhelming so it's hard to pick anyone in a seven game series over mcdavid because it's just this is the years these are the years for mcdavid like. Like the greats of their time. Where they pull them through. You get one. Where it's, yeah. If it goes seven, it's McDavid has a moment.

Like Crosby's golden goal. He finds a moment. He's just waiting until he gets to Toronto for his. Who? Pardon? Oh, I was just going to say. I'm still on LA. Sorry.

No, it's all good. Like, you know, he's still really really good coppy yeah yep he's his team he's mcdavid for them he's that good just so he's bergeron it's it's he's patrice bergeron in black and silver he's all scores. Every time I watch a highlight or... He's scoring. Yeah. He's a talented player. And no Fiala.

He's hurt. Is he hurt? Yeah. He's been out of the lineup, I think, for half a dozen games. And he's good, too. He gave them a different look. And you know who's sneaky good, too, is that Arvidsson. Oh, yeah.

He's always been good in the playoffs, too. The Kings are going to finish, like, eighth in the NHL for, like, five years and never win a cup. This version of the Kings. That's my hot take of the day. Oh, wow. They're not going to finish like eighth in the NHL for like five years and never win a cup. This version of the Kings. That's my hot take of the day. Oh, wow. They're not going to win a cup. Okay.

Not anytime soon? No, I got a bunch of good players. They don't have enough. These guys. They don't have Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Ryan O'Reilly. Jesus. That guy too. Yeah. I don't know. I. That guy, too. Yeah.

I don't know. I think he's wide open. All right. I like the Kings. You do? Not to win the cup, but I like them a lot. All right. Just like that.

Sammy, go to Arizona. Four. Our thanks to Butch Goring, David Amber, Rob Rossi. Sammy, what time is your flight? 9.25 tomorrow morning. What time is your tee time? 2 p.m. Arizona time. Where are you playing? Get the name. Hey, what time is your flight? 9.25 tomorrow morning. What time is your tee time? 2 p.m. Arizona time. Where are you playing?

Get the name. Hey, no pictures, eh? Don't be that TikTok guy. I know, I know. Listen, I want the pictures. I want to live like you. I'll send one or two. I want them.

Nothing over the top. Okay, enjoy the game tonight. Toronto and the Islanders. Get a chance. Give us a rating and review. Thanks, everybody. Talk to you tomorrow.