Real Kyper & Bourne - Hall of Fame Feeling with Ken Hitchcock

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off the National Hour with the Capitals' bounce back efforts as of late, winning despite Ovechkin's underwhelming production and the concerning power play numbers. They are joined by newly inducted Hall of Famer Ken Hitchcock (4:50), who discusses the ceremony in Toronto, stories from his career and his thoughts on some of the coaching situations around the league. Later, on the Penguins hot stretch, the complete game and longevity of Sidney Crosby and what Kyle Dubas can do at the deadline to push the chips in even further. Finally, news and notes - Brendan Gallagher calls out officiating, Kyle Connor's unreal goal-pace and the Canadian teams trending up.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome into the national hour on the real kipper and boring show we are live on sportsnet and sportsnet 650 in vancouver and sports that's 960 in calgary and this hour always but always brought to you by bet 365 plenty to get into around the national hockey league and in a few minutes we'll welcome in one of the newest inductors to the Hockey Hall of Fame, Ken Hitchcock, who sits fourth in winningest coaches in NHL history. And, of course, part of the Stanley Cup team with the Dallas Stars. Yes, sir.

I don't know. Where do you want to go first? Well, before we get to Hitch, do you want to talk about last night in the NHL at all? Uh. Want to talk about Brendan Gallagher

or the Sabres or Sid? You know what? I think for me, personally, the two teams that have just put a stamp on, sometimes I don't know what the hell I'm talking about,

is the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Washington Capitals. Great place to start. Because those are teams that were trending, and I'll go back to last year as well, towards, you guys got to kind of blow it up a little bit here see i've been a team pittsburgh guy but they started looking old and slow and they couldn't make it clear the washington capitals yeah have and the caps now seven two and one in the last 10 the penguins have won five straight i mean those teams are once again in the top half of the Metro

and positioned in a pretty good spot here. They got the standings up here like a real TV show. Love it. Holy. Production value. Frank the Tank up there. I got invited to an alumni event just prior to the season starting in Washington. And they still got some great pieces,

but you were just wondering if it was catching up. Now, the most interesting aspect of even the Washington Capitals, for me, off the start, is that this is happening with Alexander Ovechkin with all but a couple of goals. And if I'm not mistaken... He's doubled his total. He's up to four.

He's up to four. Okay. Which is what? A 25-30 goal pace? Yeah, he tied Wayne Gretzky all time for empty netters. So we're not going to see the huge numbers apparently off of Ovechkin. And at his age, 30 is not bad.

Would it be deemed as a complete failure in your mind by the hockey world that a guy in his late 30s would bring down his totals from what we're accustomed to seeing in the 50s down to 30? No, but it does change some of the conversation a lot of people like our boy DA have been having where it's like, yeah, if he's got 50 last year, if he only gets 40 this year, you start to see that tail,

the scoring tail at the end of careers. But how much does it thin out from there? But you're still in the ballpark of two plus years. Yeah. Right? Yeah, he's going to get there in all likelihood i mean it seems very attainable now but it is interesting that you mentioned they're having success without him but also their team goal differential is minus two like they don't look like a loaded team to me

that's going to be a threat throughout the season so i'm not really sure how to so who's tied up the street you who is tied for second in in all-time empty net goals? Marion Hossa. Second all-time, yeah. I was actually going to say when you mentioned that about Gretzky, Hossa you can put on the ice. Block shots, steal pucks, one of the best defensive players. You've never thought Ovi.

It's been like a he'll shoot it in the net for us thing, right? I think he had one last night too. Two of his four this year are empties. Yeah, but last night he had a shot at an empty net goal too. Okay. Okay, they're going to, every single time there is an empty net, you better believe me. And the other thing is, check for me quickly where Washington's power play is

because it's not pretty. I don't think it's pretty. All right, let's see what we can do. Stats, teams. Which again. Power play. The Capitals power play is. Ooh, I'm going way down. Last in the league.

7.3%. 7.3%. Mike. I didn't know it was that ugly. 7.3%. Last in the league. Yeah. Wow. So that's another.

That's really surprising for a team that's bumped up in the last two weeks. Shocking. That it hasn't happened with Ovi's scoring up in the last two weeks. Shocking. That it hasn't happened with Ovi's scoring or getting on a hot streak and the power play. Okay, as promised, one of the newest members of the Hockey Hall of Fame joining us now, one of the winningest coaches in NHL history. Let's welcome in Ken Hitchcock. Hitch, you caught your breath since the weekend? Nick, I was okay through the weekend until we went to sign the book.

And then standing on the riser behind me were a lot of the players that I coached in the NHL and on the Olympic teams and stuff. So that's kind of where I lost it a little bit when I saw all the guys there. That's why if you ever look at my signature, it's the worst-looking signature you've ever seen in your life. It's got some pretty shaky moments in it. Is it as full circle of a moment or a weekend as you can ever get? And is it possible to absorb it all? Well, first of all, going to Toronto, guys, I haven't been around the game visually for a long time.

And it's such an intense market and there's so much going on hockey-wise. It's a little bit overwhelming but um i'm i'm really humbled by this like i you know this is this is a long way from running ice on an outdoor rink or or coaching midget hockey this is so far from that and and i i was able to share this we had a great family dinner with close friends. And then the Stars and Blues put on a function together, which was terrific. And that, to me, is the highlight.

I got to share this with a lot of my family and then a lot of my close friends from when I coached and was in the league, to be honest with you. I mean, I imagine, and maybe I'm wrong here, but have you had a moment when you've been alone, you've just been like brushing your teeth and been like, Hall of Fame? You know, it's an incredible accomplishment, Ken. Thanks, Justin.

You know, for me, it's when Lanny told me in the summer that I was going in, it's the first time, you know, we're guilty of never looking back. We don't live in the summer that I was going in it it's the first time you know we we're guilty of never looking back we we don't live in the past as coaches we're either into later moving forward it's the first time I kind of had a pause and reflect of well you know this is what happened in my career and it's it's given me a chance to pause and reflect and and think about some things uh that happen because you you're so busy looking for tomorrow or looking for ideas for today that you don't spend any time reflecting but this has really given me that opportunity to pause and reflect quite frankly earlier this week

hitch we had uh claude julian on and they were playing the music in the background because i was still talking to him and you know i and you've been on this show before and i i do appreciate uh our conversations because you know i was an idiot hitch uh in my career because sometimes i'd look at the coach and just say shut up and open the door you know and let messier out and let all those stars out and the longer you're out of the game and the longer you watch and you study line changes or when particular players are out at any particular time or how you need to drop into a, you know, a four check, you appreciate it so much more. But today to coach, today to hit your levels or Claude's levels on wins

has got to be much more challenging for coaches today. And we just saw Jay Woodcroft, and he was an up-and-comer and looked like he had a bright future. But the pressure over the first dozen games is an incredible hitch. I'm just wondering, will we see anybody hit those levels of wins like you and Claude ever again? You know what, Nick? I think it's really hard being a long-term coach in the league now.

I think we've become, National Hockey League has become, for coaches has become, for coaches, has become a little bit like the English Premier League soccer program. You know, three and you're done. And I think it's really hard to become a long-term coach because opinions by the players and by people in the game are so strong they can overwhelm a coach. And, you know, I looked at what, like, I've mentored Jay for five years now, and I think he's a wonderful coach.

I think he does a great job. But when things start to unravel and then the stories come, is he going to last, is he going to be able to make it, that becomes overwhelming. So the story does you in more than the actual facts do you in. It wouldn't surprise me that the Edmonton Oilers go on a tear here because they were looking like they were coming out of it even though they weren't winning games.

And when you've gone through this adversity and you come out of it, you know what it's like. You could win forever. And I think the same thing happened to a team like washington they had to change their style now they check like crazy they're they're checking and their numbers over the puck are incredible they're hard to play against and i think once you get in that mode you can win forever but it's going through that process that costs a lot of coaches their jobs quite frankly you know when you do take over a team,

so Woodcroft is out and they looked like a team that was about ready to turn it around. You know, what are some of the challenges? I asked Julian this as well, but just, you know, I think it's interesting to get different perspectives on the challenges for a new coach. Like Chris Knobloch taking over an Edmonton Oilers team where, you know, can you change systems at this point? Can you change lineups?

What does he have at his disposal now that he's taking over what has been a recently successful team? Well, I've experienced this before quite a bit. And to me, number one is that you better partner up with your leaders right away. That's, that's really, really important because they're the guys that are going to be your your guide and they're going to be the people that if they buy in the rest of the team's going to buy in to try to get it and and involve the whole group is impossible

so if you think you're going to coach 23 guys into this it doesn't work that way you've got to coach four or five guys get them to buy in and a really solid foundation and the rest of the guys will follow and i think that's critical sometimes sometimes we get too involved in coaching too many people and i get it that we instruct 23 but we really coach those first five those leaders that are responsible for the direction of the team and that's got to be the partnership and you've got to include them in everything all the decisions uh all the framework any changes in systems you've got to get them to buy in before you can expect the group to um to come along with you know for the ride but i i really uh found over time that if I can convince my leaders

and my best players to check, I've got a real chance to turn the thing around quickly. From the 2023 Hall of Fame class, we are joined by Ken Hitchcock, the fourth winningest coach in NHL history. Hitch, one of the easy things to do in Edmonton is just point the finger at the goalies and at the end of the day say that Jay Woodcroft was goalied.

You know, I'm asking you out of your 1,598 career games coached in the NHL, how many times were you goalied? You know where we were goalied, Nick, is not because our guys weren't. Our guys were good but we we had and we were playing unbelievable hockey in st louis and we lost to crawford to crawford again and then to quick and we had a chance to really make a run on cups but those those guys those two guys were incredible i don't know that we got out bully uh our guys were were were strong but those guys were incredible and we were talking about it

over the weekend here we lost to los angeles and we outshot them 42 to 14 in the decisive game and jonathan Quick was incredible. And that's what you need. And I went through it. I had Eddie Belfort. And we went on a four-year run with Eddie where he was our best player by a mile. And when you've got a goaltender that can dominate that way, it's like gold. And when you look at Aiden Hill and the way he played I mean he

saved some games and and I think that's critical uh it's not that you need it you can really go on an extended winning program and win championships if you've got great goaltending good goaltending gets you a little bit of the distance but great goaltending takes you all the way Ken when you look at the coaches around the nhl today are there any in particular that you admire um and you know and why would that be if there's any that stand out to you i don't want to get so much into names guys because they're yes there are some people that i'm really impressed with but i can tell you right now the coaches that get their teams to dive into the checking part of the game, not just playing defense.

That's easy to just play defense. You can mirror people. But the teams that get their players to play through people, I'm really impressed with. You look at the job that Dave Haxtell did last year, and that team checked right through you. You look at some of that Dave Haxtell did last year, and that team checked right through you. You look at some of the teams. If you look at the teams right now that are on top of the heap,

they all check really well. And I think that's the sign of a coach, because that's a very hard thing to get your team to do, to check. And you see the ones that are having success. I think there's a reason is that they're the coach is demanding it and the players are falling in line i'm gonna throw three teams out at you hitch boston the rangers and dallas will exclude the stanley cup champion of vegas out of this uh like what's been most oppressive uh in any of these three teams? Well, first of all, Nick, for me, Boston.

Boston has a great spirit, and that team has defined leadership. I know you're worried when you lose Krejci and you lose Bergeron, but they've got a defined leadership, and they're going to be around all the time because you can see their leaders are their best players. but they've got a defined leadership and they're going to be around all the time because they, they're,

you can see their leaders are their best players. Their leaders are leading in the right direction. They're in really good shape for me, Dallas, same things happen. Like they are in a situation, quite frankly, that they could go on long,

long runs here because they're veteran players. Even as they get longer or older in age, they're still more than competable or they've got a group that you can really compete with. And they've got all these younger players that are coming on. So to me, they could go on extended runs here for quite a few years. And the Rangers, the rangers are learning how to play the game i think labby's done a great job there the rangers got numbers over the puck they're not chasing from behind and they're hard to play against because they can play extended

minutes tied and be at the end with their skill or they can have a one goal lead and really carry it for a period and a half or two periods and do a great job with it. The Rangers are learning how to play winning hockey, and you can really see it coming forward right now. Yeah. You know, you've mentioned a couple of times now leaders, and so when you coach your group, you're coaching four or five guys, and you see the importance in those guys.

What is the difference when you have vocal leaders versus leaders who just lead by the way they play? We had Matt Sundin on earlier today, and Kip was talking about how he was a guy who just kind of went out and did what he did, right? Because he led that way. You know, what is the difference to a team when you have these different types of personalities

that are leading your team? I think that's one of the big changes in the games, guys. You know, when Nick was playing and stuff like that you'd had quiet guys that would just come and play and show the way I don't think you could do that now I think leadership has to be vocal I think because there's so many tugs and pulls on the players away from the rink around the rink a lot of people involved in their lives other than just you as coaches. I think you need real vocal leadership

if you're going to be successful in the league now. And I think that vocal leadership has to be up front with your best players. And I think when you look at the teams that are having success, their top players, their captains, their leaders are really vocal. And I think that's the only way you can have success now in the NHL okay Hitch I want to take you back you know in your reflection mode as a coach and looking back at your career and we had earlier this year to start one of the most bizarre dismissals of a

head coach in Mike Babcock in Columbus and I'm not asking you to comment on that necessarily. But what I am asking you is, you know, over your weekend, when you look back at your career, do you sit there at times and reflect on some of the things you said and did over your career where just today, you know, it's much different. And is there a part of you that says, I'm sure glad I'm not maybe starting my career today because I, I played for Keenan, you know, there's, there's others. I caught a little bit of Pat Burns. You guys set a tone, you set a bar,

you either hit it or you get out of the way. And I'm just wondering if, if that came into play in terms of your reflection this weekend. Yeah, it did. And that's why I wanted to, I said it in my speech. I, I,

I, I, I'm in all of the players. I'm in an odd level of sacrifice necessary to win in the national hockey league. And I was really a fan of the players. I couldn't show that when I coached. I didn't think I could show it anyways.

But I was really a fan of the players. And I wanted to tell them all, and I tried to anyways on the speech, that how much I appreciated their effort, their commitment, and their sacrifice. But I think now, when i look back on it um and you look at the coaches now you've got to be really careful you've got to be really selective um because there are so many other factors that influence the players now um and you've got to be really smart at the way you handle it i i think the biggest change for me, Nick, is that when I coached, you provided or at times demanded a direction you wanted to go,

and you just took the players there. And I think now you've got to sell it ahead of time and get a buy-in ahead of time before you even start down the path. I think that's the biggest change in coaching and you've got to be able to present a case that there's going to be success with it before you can even start soliciting a buy-in well you know here in toronto last year there's an issue where keith you know called out one of his players he apologized the next day we talked about all the time here because it was kind of a weird event um you know where do you fall on dealing with stars and discipline now because

you know there are some times i'm sure you'd like to staple a guy to a bench i don't know if it's harder now or just how that relationship does change i imagine um impacts coach's ability to really dole out discipline and ice time today? I think that's where you've got to really be smart. I think if you're going to be critical, it has to be a we critical, not a them or an I critical. I think if you're going to criticize your team because you didn't like the way they played, you've got to use the word we all the time and not single O people. And when there's success, I think that's good to single out people for their if they've had great accomplishment during the

game or they played really well i think you're you're well within your line to single that out but boy when you're criticizing everything has to be a we and you can't get pointed because it grows legs. I remember when I was in Edmonton and I made a comment about there was a time that there were some shifts with some of the younger players where we kind of dumped it in the neutral zone and changed or turned it over in the neutral zone and changed. And that drove me crazy. And I pointed it out. And that story grew legs for a month.

And that was a real eye-opener for me because in the past people had moved would have moved on but they weren't so I think you got to be really careful and I think you got to really be able to keep it at the wee and not get pointed because I think that story will be there and it'll stay with the you and it'll be part of your lore and you don't want that to be part of your lore. Hitch, I got to ask you for our Sportsnet 960 listeners in Calgary. Jonathan Huberto, who is struggling immensely, how would a Ken Hitchcock maybe 20 years ago handle Jonathan

or maybe a Ken Hitchcock today handle Jonathan because he scored 115 points not too long ago and and now he looks like a 50 or 60 point guy like how would you get Jonathan going here? Well I've had a lot of that before and I I use the same method. You either trust the player or you don't trust the player. And if you trust the player, then you've got to put him out there in situations where he feels like you have confidence in him. And that means that you've got to take risks and put him out there against top players or in critical situations. First of all, not talk about scoring, not talk talk about points but talk about game-like situations where you trust this guy put him out there where it really matters give him that

confidence that he can play against top players and then let his skill take over after a while because his skill all of a sudden he isn't going to wake up and start scoring two points a game it's going to be a gradual process but in meantime, he's got to feel like you trust him. And being able to play against top players, putting him out in critical situations, start of games, end of periods, stuff like that is really, really important because the player's confidence will grow because he feels like you trust him and then his natural skill will take over. I've always found that when you're working with players

who have lost their confidence, they become very aloof on the ice. There's games where the saying you'd have is, boy, was he ever quiet. And you've got to bring the noise, and the way to bring the noise is to put him out there when it really matters and see if he can grow from there. Hitch, great stuff as always, man, on our show. We really appreciate your time, and once again,

congratulations on your induction. All right, thanks a lot, gang. Thanks, Hitch, appreciate it. Ken Hitchcock. Awful guy. Do you think if Brett Hall's watching and listening, he's like, who was that guy? Where was that?

I was actually thinking of how I used to think about Ken Hitchcock when I used to watch the NHL, and he was kind of a hard-nosed, you know, he would really ring the most out of guys. But it's interesting hearing what a thoughtful, you know, he really thought a lot of this through, and that was just the way you coached then. There's a great story that uh reeves tells about hitch i don't know which podcast it's on but he does a long story about hitch getting mad at him and yelling at him and it's hilarious him

doing hitch at the impression of hitch it's incredible but yeah it's right it's like he's a hard-nosed guy and then you hear him talk there it's just like that was the most insightful hockey conversation a method to the madness right every once in a while we're all in new york uh keenan telling stories and then there'd be brian leach whispering in my ear i don't remember it that way yeah that's all you know hanging around my dad and his buddies there's a lot of i'm not sure it went down quite like that uh don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, pal. It's all good. It's all good.

As long as you win at the end. That's it. Right? He's a lot of guys, much like Keenan. At the end of the day, he can't take away the fact that that guy just pushed enough buttons to help you become a champion. Win and win and win. You can never take that away from hard asses like that in that era. Yeah.

And you know what? He's still a guy that does consulting for NHL coaching staffs at St. Louis, I think, most recently. And he's very in tune with today's era of hockey player. All right, game time, baby. All right. It's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds

and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Now, i think today is a good game time boys what do you got well i got the oilers again yeah uh i think i'm gonna ride the oilers here for a while uh i'm going again another the horses lead the way connor mcdavid goal leon goal and the oilers minus a goal and a half pays plus 575. That cashed last time, right? It did.

It wasn't a minus goal and a half, but the last time I went with it, it did cash. So going back to the well, I just feel like they're going to light it up again. And going against a team where I don't know where they're heading, Seattle. They're heading. Right?

Way down. You kind of won me over a little bit, JB, on just overachieving last year. Yeah. I mean, there's lots to like about their defensive play and making goaltend and all that sort of stuff. But to me, you just can't bank on, you know, solid play from solid players.

You need to have some elite guys and they just don't. Well, at the end of the day, Schwartz is a good player. Eberle is a good player, but they're not front-line guys. Those are all complimentary guys. What do they have? They got really a lot of mileage last year

out of maybe three third-line type of players. Yeah, like Matty Beneers had a good rookie season, but his rookie season was 56 points or something. Can't put the puck in the net. Has he got one yet? Sammy, what's Matty have? He has a number, which is one.

Minus 15 in 16 games, one goal, six assists, seven points. Minus 15. And he was looking for a long-term. He thought he'd be one of those guys. I guess the Jack Hughes deal. Rookie of the year. Why wouldn't you try to lock me up now for eight? Yeah.

But, you know, second line listed right now is Jaden Schwartz, Alexander Wenberg, and Brandon Tanev. Okay. Fine. Fine players. The next thing I have here on game time is Bo Horvat returns to Vancouver tonight. Schwartz, Alexander Wenberg, and Brandon Tanev. Okay. Fine. Fine players. The next thing I have here on Game Time is Bo Horvat returns to Vancouver tonight. Yes.

And, boy, there's just been a lot of conjecture in that market. I mean, I follow a ton of— Are they booing him or not tonight? But that's a hot-button conversation in Vancouver. I follow a ton of Vancouver people very in that scene on Twitter, and they are very bent out of shape about this. I mean, would you boo him? Whatever. How do you boo a guy whose team wouldn't pay him?

The revenge factor tonight is a Bo Horvath goal, and the Islanders winning is plus 375. I would imagine that nice, shiny contract that he put, he would put some of that on the board tonight, I would imagine. Oh, I imagine he's putting up a couple. There's a couple shekels up there. So, you know, I don't love the islanders but i did not see at this point back then yeah that jt miller being the hot guy in the league and bo harvard struggling right yeah i just flipped never saw that coming and just now think about the fan base in vancouver

and how what what a great feeling knowing that our team's going this way and and the islanders are going down i know horvath said a salty thing or two on the way out the door but you know seemed primarily about the fact that the team didn't value the nine years he put in on losing teams being like their only horse. The captain of a crappy team for a long time. So, you know, to me, he was a good Vancouver Canuck and should be supported. But hey, as you've said,

people pay their money. They're fans. If they're upset at him, do your thing. If I'm going there wearing my skate jersey tonight, I'm definitely booing. Boo Horvath. No, I think I give him the standing O at the start, and then the second that puck drops, baby, boo every time he touches the puck. That's how you handle it.

That's how you handle it. So a couple more quick things here. Sort of checking in on odds to make the playoffs. And the reason I bring this up is because I find this very fascinating. Is this leading into the segment we want to do, which is called Are They Good or Do They Suck? That's my dream segment. We'll get to it one day.

We just need to sell Kipper. The Oilers are minus 175 to make the playoffs. Whoa. So pretty prohibitive favorites. The Bucs think they're going to make the playoffs. And last time I checked, they had single-digit points. Let me just double-check that. Yes, still single-digit point, nine points.

Wow. I know they're really good, but it's a big time uphill climb. Hitch made an interesting point that they may have already started it even before they got rid of Jay Woodcroft in Seattle. Yeah. It's just crazy you can't even get value on it now. Plus 145 to miss wow yeah but yeah no he he did mention that like this is probably going in that direction and then

god they just dug the hole so that's what i mean you know that's i do not recommend that bet not a 175 no skinner has looked great since jack Campbell's left. Yeah. Right? And Jack's, what, 12 goals in two games? Yeah, apparently he let in a 60-foot slapper last night. I mean, he's a guy whose performance

has hinged on his mental state and that can't be great in the American League. And a couple other ones. I hope he figures it out. Me too. I really do. Totally rooting for him.

And a couple other ones for the playoff odds, just quickly before we go. Bucks are believing in the Penguins. Minus 175 to make the playoffs, but not the Capitals. Plus 185 to make the playoffs. So they're a pretty heavy underdog to make the playoffs, and the Penguins

are a pretty heavy favorite to make it. The Bucks know what they're doing. Did they get faster? 7% power play for Washington. When Backstrom left, did they get faster? I don't know, maybe. Weird one. Hey, 7%. Strom scored a nice goal last night. He's been good.

He's been really good. All right. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. All right. We're going to take a quick break here.

And then we're back. We'll discuss a little Brendan Gallagher last night calling out the officials. Oh. He was right, too, Sammy. It's a right call. Sammy, save it. Save it.

Do I need to call you a whambulance? More of the Sammy crying after the break. You guys think at some point, like, Sid, either this summer or training camp or at the beginning of the year, said, time out with Austin and Connor here. Because I'm not going anywhere. I do think that this year that sid is starting to have is how you end up with freakish end of career numbers like right when everyone's being like okay now it's time for you to pack it in sid is at 19 points in 13 games yeah he's gonna be one that when he's done it's gonna be really sad because he's been he's like next to matt he's my favorite hockey player ever i love sydney crosby yeah we got him there's a there's a

yeah you know that jersey he gave me a pretty great moment at a really good time in my life when he scored that goal that was pretty enjoyable it was pretty special he's the most forever he is the most complete hockey player in the league and connor's not there and neither is austin neither jack hughes none of them he is the most complete no shortcuts does everything the right way no cheating yeah i mean that was patrice bergeron only sid was doing it plus 30 points on it right i mean the numbers are pretty baffling yeah he's plus 8 19 points right there but he's between matthews and dry sidle on the leaderboard watching him last night he's a pain too like he's got to the point where he's got the

leeway with the refs where he he gets away with it he's hacking whacking like he cares so much it's just like god he can't teach that. And again, if you're going to score, the whole idea is that you do more of the scoring and less of the shoveling the puck out of your own net. And that's where Connors failed and Auston's failed for the Leafs this year. Yeah.

You know, Auston's up there with the total goals, but I'm a big plus minus guy until it's not a factor, but this is a factor. Successful teams with their stars are now plus. Look at Vancouver. Go look at JT Miller. Look at Pettersson. Go look at Hughes.

Like you cannot saw off your goals and sid and uh carlson i think uh malkin i think matthews is a plus player kipper he's what is what is what is matthews minus what is matthews marner tavaris and nylander total, plus minus. Am I a mathlete? I don't know. You can give it to me in two seconds. What are they? I can give you three of them. Plus one. Right now, they're even between Nylander, Matthews, and Marner.

So let's find out what Tavares is at. I bet you he's minus. Maybe minus one. There he is, minus two. So as a group, they're dash two. But combined. As a group, they're dash two. Yeah.

Now go to Pitt. Give me anybody. Sid's plus eight okay the on-air sat today no i'm just this is this is how you're hitch said it hitch said it yes claude julian says it win your minutes uh your important players your best, have to be a lot more in that end and a lot less in your own end. For sure. The Marner-Matthews group has been struggling this year. And, you know, blame it on the left winger. The coach has talked about how it's the two of them.

You know, quietly here, Marner doesn't have a point in three straight games, which is unheard of for him. So, you know, I look at Sid's numbers here, and he's up to 1,521 points in 1,204 games, probably going to get to 1,000 assists this year. He's at 961. You know, it's incredible, but you wonder where he would be without that two-year sort of injury

in and out of the lineup. Yeah, his concussions. In the neck. It was really scaly there for a while about him. Remember there was remember there was like is he gonna be able to come yeah i had real concerns at one point i actually you know interesting you mentioned his total career numbers i had a friend mentioned he's in like if he has two more full seasons he's in like gaudy territory right now it's really good the second nhl player ever to hit 2 000000 points. What's he, 500 away? He is, yeah, he's under 500 points away. So 400 and some points away, you know, if he's a nine.

I just don't know if you can keep him that interested for five more years. And it may be more than five years. He's not going to get to 100 every year. I don't see him sticking around or babysitting and like listen i mean kyle dubas went really all in oh yeah what choice do you have right he's all in on sid and it's definitely enough to hold his attention right now but i don't know what this team's gonna look like in 18 months you think if they get bad sid will say i'm still an nhl player and a very good one but i'm just gonna go back to cool harbor uh no i see sid shutting it down before oh yeah yeah okay i thought you might go somewhere else

um i i do see him shutting it down before ever going to another organization yeah the only question is is how long can kyle dubas keep him interested in thinking he has a chance to win because i don't see him as a babysitter everything's great yeah 479 points is a lot but if he had played two more years let's give him 100 points in those two years that he would have played right like yeah he's oh his numbers are going to be off the charts he played for from in three straight years he went 41 22 36 games played really yeah that many so if it's 82 80 you know 80 like he's up in the 1700 range 1800 range and it's like holy crap this is this is a real thing yeah but again the model of consistency because i don't think he's ever had a

year where he had more than 120 points no i don't think he has either he's he has had one year of 120 points yeah one one and he's been over 100 one two two, three, four, five, six times. So he just kind of gets a lot of points every year. But yeah, to your point, he's also, I just, I think my defining Crosby memories will be, well, we had obviously the golden goal. Yeah, that was good. The Ovechkin hat trick game where they both had the hat tricks, but also the battle with Giroux in one of those playoff series.

Yeah, when they beat him and everyone's like, is Giroux the best player in the world? Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. But there was real nastiness between those two, and it was the competitiveness that stuck out to me. Yeah, because it's like,

when you asked him, he's like, because I don't like them. Like, he hated them. Yeah. That was a good rivalry. The only thing I wonder about Pittsburgh is between now and, say, the trade deadline,

where's Kyle, what next level can Kyle go to help this team? Or is this, this has to be pretty much your Stanley Cup team? Because there's not much in the cupboards there, right? No, but this is why I stuck with Pittsburgh when people were saying, oh, this Pittsburgh team's slow and no good. Because, you know, Dubas will be doing something. I know they're up against it and not a lot of assets. They'll do something.

They have next year's first and the following year's first. They don't have this year's first. They have 2025, they have 2026. They have this year's second, no second next year, and the second round after that. A little thing. And this is still coming off of Jimmy Rutherford. Yeah.

Where he spent. So I don't know where he can further deplete the organization to win now. Yeah. So that's another factor on where Pitt goes. I've come to it. I don't know where other Leaf fans are on this. Or I guess the Dubas hating Leaf fans. But watching the Penguins last night, I can't do it.

I can't hate on Sid. I have to root for the Penguins. Really? Yeah. It overrules the Dubas. Yeah, it does. It's just like I can't watch Sid and be like, I want this guy to lose.

Like I'm watching him karate chop it from below the goal line into the net. I'm like, God, he's so good. He's amazing. Just the redirects. he's so good he's amazing just the redirects that's that's so sick it's like him and pavelski around the net basically one two anyways love you sid hope you're listening bud uh he's not okay as we promised uh brendan gallagher oh yeah coming off a loss where at least last night they thought they would take a crack at maybe getting a chance to tie it up, which they still did.

Yeah, Montreal getting frustrated here, right? They took a late penalty last night and had some choice words, didn't they? Yeah, so was it Lindholm was behind the net? Jeffer Flames' player's behind the net. He's protecting the puck, and he backs into the back of the net and falls over while Gallagher's there. Gallagher gets the penalty. Old Brendan was not very happy about that.

Would you like to listen to him? Oh, very much so. All right, Derek, play the clip. He can't make that mistake. It's obviously a real important part of the game. He's in the neutral zone. His partner's right there looking at it. He didn't have a penalty call. Their bench reacts and he makes a reactionary call. It can't happen at this level and he knows that. Yeah reasonable i did see the play super professional i saw the play

and it was the back official the one that's on the goal line who had a probably a much closer better angle than a center ice official doesn't make the call yeah Yeah. That drives players nuts, doesn't it? Oh, that makes people mental. When you're like a guy looking right at it and a guy that's 100 feet away is like, that drives them nuts. That's tough. So, you know, they lose to the Canucks on Sunday,

lose to the Flames last night, partially on the back of a call there. They got the Golden Knights and the Bruins for their next two games. They're down to 500. They already handled the Bruins once. Yeah, true. But Montreal is starting to look more like what we thought. They're down to 500. They already handled the Bruins once. Yeah, true. But Montreal is starting to look more like what we thought.

Not that they're bad. They're playing. They're competitive this year, but they're still going to be. Josh Anderson had a grade A chance to tie the game. Markstrom pulls the big Bernie Perrant glove save. Don't look now. Mark and the funky bunch.

He doesn't have a goal yet. Josh Anderson. He doesn't have a goal? I don't think he has a goal. He doesn't have many goals enough to necessitate an entire stat column. I think it's full goose egg. It's because they haven't played the Leafs enough. He does score against them.

Flames 5-8-2. Oilers 4-9-1. Here they come. He's got a bagel in uh 16 games that like i went my first 15 games as a fourth liner without my nhl goal yeah and i was going preoccupied bananas yeah i can't imagine a guy making five million bucks a year who has a much better reputation for scoring than I do right now or back then. Well, and think of a guy who's at 28 in the league, Max Domi,

is sitting here in Toronto with all the pressures of Toronto and his dad and all that waiting for his first one. I'm sure it's on his mind a little bit. I'm just looking at the goal totals for teams he's played against. He has 13 against the Toronto Maple Leafs, and next closest is seven yeah um who's your first career goal against kipper detroit uh sammy saint laurent does that sound right no idea you tell me oh my gosh i think it's sam. I haven't said that name in like 14 years.

Heard that name in 84 years. Sam St. Laurent. Yeah, I mean, this picture, yeah, he's got the Jason Voorhees mask. There he is. There he is. There he is. I was at the Joe Louis, assisted by Alan May, his regular guest, and the late Doug Wickenheiser, first

pick overall of the Montreal Canadiens. Good goal, lucky goal. Great goal. Oh, yeah? Sid-like. I just right in the blue paint, chopped it. Redirect? High glove. What were we talking about? Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Hit YouTube.

If you dig deep enough, you can find that video. What if like what did that feel like honestly like when you your first goal like you just euphoric christmas yeah just christmas that's what it felt like what's your favorite goal uh patrick one montreal form wow that's a big deal high glove yeah wow toe dragging it across the blue line didn't die that's great it was like seven bodies in front of him thank god or else he would have pulled it out like it was a muffin that's awesome i wish i could find that goal but probably can't find that one nah nah this is way before sammy and the internet yeah so do you feel like the you know there are

canadian teams the direction they're going flames and the oilers so do you feel like the you know there are canadian teams the direction they're going flames and the oilers starting to get better we give kyle connor a little love yeah we're actually do you know one of the best goal scorers so far in the national hockey league yeah i send you guys today a list of expected goals uh just straight up expected goals from staffletes number one in the nhL, Zach Hyman. Number two is Austin Matthews. And then it's all the players you would expect. But number three in the league is Kyle Connor.

He has been the third best forward at creating what should be goals. Only seven assists, though, Kippy. Who's that? Kyle Connor. But he's not a centerman. Doesn't need to be addition magician. Center position has to have that element in his game. But the reason I sent you guys that list was, shockingly,

Nylander's fifth, but Tavares is sixth in expected goals, so the Leafs have a few guys up there. Yeah, because he's shooting them from the front of the net. Power play doesn't hurt, yeah. But yeah, Jets are looking pretty good. That's a nice win over the Devils. shooting them from the front of the net. Power play doesn't hurt. Jets are looking pretty good. It's a nice win over the Devils. Jack Hughes, I get, but their goaltending is left a little bit to be desired.

Devils flailing a little bit. Three losses in a row, 7-6-1 for a team that I think a lot of us, myself included, had probably as favorites to win the Metro this year. They don't have their best player, one of the best guys in the league. That's a huge loss. It is. But, you know, other players like Toffoli.

Toffoli might be minus eight, minus ten. They're digging pucks out of their own zone here. Yeah. Yeah, that's been a problem for them. The one thing I was going to mention for Canadian teams, the Canucks lose Connor Soucy, which I know does not sound like a big deal. No, I think it's a big deal.

I do too. I think it's one of those where sometimes you add a defenseman and it sets everyone else up. It puts everyone where they're supposed to be. When you take a guy out, it forces people to kind of get reslotted and not necessarily in a good way.

And yeah, the Canucks, you know, obviously I think they're 8-1-1 their last 10. They've been awesome. But yeah, that'll be a challenge for them to see, you know, their depth will be challenged with that absence. If I'm Craig Conroy, I'm texting some media members being like, boy, they're really asking on.

Canucks are really asking on Zdorov. Drive that price up. It appears that Tage Thompson, Mario Jr., when he's toe-dragging, Tate Lemieux. Boys, the Sabres, it's not happening for me. Maybe broken hand, suspected broken hand. And he went out earlier in the game because Charlie McAvoy kicked him. It was ugly.

Yeah. I'm also watching like the lower bowl. There's no, doesn't look like any fans are at the game. This is the year they were supposed to turn it around. This is the one for me where it was like, okay, now you have all these 10 pole pieces. But I'm watching Levi, the rookie. Yeah, it's tough.

Coming out of college. Can't be much more than what? 21 years of age. Hey, get us in the playoffs. Come on. I think it's time for Adams to not just say, we're growing and we're getting better, and you got to make some moves and get that team some help.

All right. Oh, shout out. Kyle Ocpozo. 1,000 games in the NHL. Former teammate of mine. Pretty awesome accomplishment. Awesome. Yeah.

Okay. Less than 24 hours for puck drop in Sweden. That's not true. It's Wednesday. We're still so far from hockey. Just under 48 hours. Tune in tomorrow when we have 11 guests. Oh, my God.

We got to do another show without a Leaf game? I don't know. Let's do it. Our thanks to legend Matt Sundin and Hall of Famer Ken Hitchcock. We're back tomorrow.