Real Kyper & Bourne - HHOF Reflection with Jeremy Roenick + CHL & NCAA Opens a Path

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by former NHLer and Hockey Hall of Fame's newest member Jeremy Roenick (1:54) to chat about his upcoming induction ceremony and what it means to him to have this honour. Then, Sportsnet's Jason Bukala (30:05) stops by to weigh in on the approval to lift CHL's eligibility ban to the NCAA, how this fundamentally changes the development for young hockey players, which schools could benefit from this decision, how players can earn money and how could this affect smaller market teams in the CHL.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's kick it up on our national hour the real kipper and born show we are live on sports at 650 in vancouver sports at 960 in calgary this hour real kipper and born is brought to you by bet 365 nick kipreels justin born sammy mckee a few minutes we're hoping to track down jeremy ronick now listen uh these nobody has it busier than these guys throughout this week and travel to toronto it's going to be fully loaded for them from the moment that they touch down we're trying to track down jeremy ronick he texted me his like schedule that he was like oh boy oh yeah like that looks like it's a nice quiet day for you yeah it's listen it's uh he it's his head spinning.

I think, yeah, I'm going to be there Monday night. Go for the induction? Yeah. Are you going? I got a big zig-zags game against the Katso Hockey Club on Monday. Zags taking precedence. Keep your priorities straight. I'm the captain.

I got to go. A.K.A. I collect the money and organize it. You're the secretary. I'm actually the general manager now. I'm a playerk.a. I collect the money and organize it. You're the secretary. I'm actually the general manager now. I'm a player coach. I barely play. All right. Well, we sit on Jeremy Roenick possibly giving us a call here.

You worked the game last night in terms of the Edmonton Oilers. Great news. Connor McDavid's back. Much quicker than we imagined. Your initial thoughts on McDavid back. Any signs at all that you saw that maybe might have been too early? Not for me. I mean, really tough playing armchair doctor,

but he had a number of rushes where he was 1,000 miles an hour. A couple cut-ins. Ooh, I'll save that for later. Okay, as promised, doctor but he had a number of rushes where he was thousand miles an hour he uh you know a couple cut-ins oh i'll save that for later okay as promised and seldom delivered on the real kipper on promises let's go to jeremy romnick the class of 2024 buddy are you well rested? Because this is going to be Mach 5 for you the moment you touch down in Toronto. Which will be tomorrow, by the way. By the way, thanks for having me on. Kipper, I love you.

Thanks, pal. I appreciate it. No, I'm not ready. I'm scared to death. I'm nervous. I'm excited. I have every emotion in my body going. I'm here in Chicago right now

working and trying to stay focused, but it's going to be awesome, and I appreciate sharing the time with you. You had a tremendous career that puts you definitely up there with some of the greatest players to be in the Hall of Fame

for sure. But can you articulate, JR, or explain to our viewers or listeners what the process has been like you over the years, wondering whether or not you're getting in, you're not getting in. Is there any way you could tell us what that feels like? And then ultimately getting the call that you are in. It's probably the craziest way that you can frame that question to me. And to be totally honest with you, which I usually am totally honest, it's been frustrating and it's been aggravating and it's been exhilarating. I will tell you this.

It took 12 years. They passed by me 12 years. And at a point, I was done. I mean, I didn't care about it. I didn't think about it. I didn't think it was going to happen while I was alive. And when it happened, and not expecting it, is when I really probably appreciated it the most.

And it hit me like a two-by-four in the face. And I really loved the way that I really appreciated it and how it how I felt and how appreciative I was and the gratification that I had. And I'm sorry it's so loud here in Chicago, but that's exactly what I'm feeling in my head right now. It's just craziness. There was a point where I didn't care anymore. There was a point where I didn't care anymore. There was a point where I'm like, this doesn't matter as much anymore. I'm seeing some of the guys that are going in before me. I'm like, really?

What's happening right now? And I guess I just didn't understand the process. The process is very important, how it happens. Again, I'm sorry. No, you're fine. We can hear you. This is live TV. This is what makes it great.

It's I didn't understand the process. And I truly believe in the mentality that, you know, all good that comes for those that wait. You know, you know, good things come for those who wait. It really hits home and is a true statement in something like this, because I do not think that if I got inducted into the Hall of Fame or elected into the Hall of Fame in 14 or 13, it wouldn't have meant as much as it does today. And I think that's what's really important. So when I know, you know, when my father-in-law, Clark Gillies, eventually got inducted into the Hall of Fame, he had a great reverence for the Hall his whole life. And it felt, I think think to him like some validation um you know how did you look at the hall of fame when you were younger and you looked at the players in there and when did you start to think that you know that might be possible for you well first of

all as a kid i would never even think of the hall of fame wasn't even in my thought process i just wanted to be i wanted to be michael ruzioni scoring the winning goal against the Russians. Right. I just wanted to be a hockey player. The Hall of Fame wasn't even a thought in my mind. And it really wasn't until my career ended, to tell you the truth, to be totally honest with you. But you go there. You see it.

You see the displays, you understand the history of the game. And Kipper, you and I have had this conversation before. I think a lot of the game and the players in the game today have forgotten about the history of the game and don't think about why the game has gotten to where it is today and the people that have paved the way for this generation. I loved going into the Hall of Fame when I was there to be able to see the Mahaviches, to see the Gordie Howes, to see the Bobby Orrers.

We can go on and on and on. And some people that nobody's ever heard of that are in the Hall of Fame. To be able to go into there knowing that I had a piece of the building block of where the NHL is today, I hope that kids today don't just go on the ice just, you know, playing a game. They're going on the ice knowing that there was a lot of people who paved the way and played the game properly for nothing because they loved it. They didn't play for a salary. They played because they loved it. And, you know, I think we've lost that a little bit in the game today.

But it's really important that we try to remember it. And I think days like on Monday where the Hall of Fame is relevant kind of brings back people to remember that. We're talking to Jeremy Roenick, the class of 2024 Hockey Hall of Fame weekend coming up. So, listen, you're talking about brutally honest. There are some people that I'm going to skip speeches in the past. I will not skip your speech.

It will have me at the edge of my seat. I cannot wait for your speech. So, I'm not asking you to give away any of the secrets, but tell me, when you start building a speech to recreate a vision of your hockey life, where do you start first? Family, minor hockey, coaches, players? Where does. go?

Well, I'm actually kind of, I have goosebumps on my arms right now because, again, great question. I've written four speeches. My first three can't happen. Okay, okay. They can't happen. Okay, okay. They can't happen because they're too long. There's too much to them. I can't be a Mark Messier and go 20 minutes. I have to be me.

And you know it's going to be very emotional. I have to be me. I have to be very honest. And I think there's some amends that I need to make. And I have stories. I make people laugh. I make people cry. Because you know I'm going to cry like crazy and my problem is trying to get

out what I'm going to say in five to six and a half seven minutes but there's no good way to start in something that I need to say

unfortunately I'm not going to get to say the original speech that I want to say. Unfortunately, I'm not going to get to say the original speech that I wanted to say, which I will put on my website when I launch my new website later in the year. And I think everybody should take a look at it because there's so much to it. But you know me. Yes. I can talk. I'll find a way to get out what I need to say.

I think you'll enjoy it. I think you'll leave saying, I want more. There's more to it. But I only have a certain amount of time that is allotted for me in the situation to be able to get out 21 years of craziness, enthusiasm, happiness, controversy. It's a lot.

Very difficult. But I hope everybody enjoys it. But at least I end the show. Do we get better Kenan stories or Hitchcock stories? Again, I can't tell enough stories. Kenan, there's a quick, everything has to be quick.

Yes. So there's a quick Kenan story. Hey, who's telling you to be quick? You should go long, JR. Don't get me going about it. Don't get me going. You know what I wanted to say i said i had to wait for you for 12 years you can wait for me for 12 minutes you know i just can't do it i can't do it but let me just let me just tell you this um i'm in a different place in my life

um i'm in a different world in my life i am in in a different world in my life. I'm at a time where this is the perfect time for me to give a speech like this and to have this happen to me. And I'm excited for it. Yes get to where I need to be, but I leave people wanting more, and maybe I can give them more as time goes by, and I can continue the path that I'm on. JR, how's your relationship with hockey today? I really don't have much of a connection with hockey today, to tell you the truth. I've kind of been pushed aside by a lot of the NHl like i've been kind of pushed aside obviously by the media for unfair reasons very unfair reasons but i i've come to grips with that um i did a i did an

interview with nhl network a couple weeks ago i'm like hey, hey guys, who are you guys? I'm Jeremy Roenick. Nice to meet you guys. Pleasure. I understand a lot of the mentality and I get it. I was unfairly judged and unfairly I think set aside. But that's okay. I'm good with that. I think, set aside. But that's okay.

I'm good with that. I have a great life. I'm actually very involved with a bunch of businesses that I'm building. And my kids are great. And I'm okay. I'm really in a good place. Now, if something comes up hockey-wise, I would jump in in a minute because it's my passion.

I love the game. I have an entire podcast with my good friend, Tim Peel, who Kipper, you and I have been on the ice with many times, battling with one of the best referees in the game. If something happens hockey-wise, I'll jump right in. I love the game. But I'm okay without it because they've been okay without me. And that's okay.

That's life. I accept that. That's okay. J.R., can this weekend go a long way for time healing between you and hockey or the NHL? Absolutely. Awesome. Absolutely. This is really important for me because more than half of my life has been hockey. Almost one-third of my life has been the National Hockey League. and it's my passion. I love it to death. There's parts of it I miss, and there's parts of it that I don't miss, because it hurt me.

And I understand, I realize that a lot of the things that happened to me was my own fault, and it was probably my decisions and the things that I said or the things that I did. But I was also unjustly looked at by the media for attention reasons. And I let that happen. But, yeah, this weekend I hope people understand that I'm not a hockey player anymore. I'm not an NHL player anymore. I'm not a TV personality anymore.

I'm a person who loves life and is happy in their life. And it's very, I have a lot of gratification in where I've been and where, you know, where I am. And if that opens up a door, that's great. Because I'll jump in and I'll have fun and people will see a different person, but if it doesn't, this is going to be a great weekend for me to close a door on a chapter of my life that was really, really amazing. JR, you referenced the U.S.

80 Olympic team, and ultimately what it did for you, Brian Leach, Billy Guerin, guys from our era, what have you done for the next generation on where you see USA hockey? Well, that's the proudest part of my hockey career, is being able to take American hockey and put it on the map as a world power.

You know, when I was 10, Mike Ruggiero scored a goal that lifted the United States hockey world on a tier. And Al Michaels asked if I believed in miracles. And I always thought that I did. And I tried to be Mike Ruggione. And in 96, when we won the World Cup, and even though I wasn't a part of that team for contract reasons, I was so proud of what my guys did. Keith Kachuk, Brian Leach, John LeClair, Tony Amante, Billy Guerin,

Doug Waite, Mike Richter. We set the world on its ear. And then in 2002, we were in the biggest game in sports history, the gold medal game of the Olympics. It doesn't get any bigger than that. And we were up against our biggest rival and the hockey king of the world in Canada. And we were on that stage. And even though we lost, it was the greatest feeling knowing that we were a superpower because of my generation, because of the guys that I just mentioned, and I can name 25 more. And now going into the Four Nations Cup, U.S. might be one of the odds-on favorite to win it. When I came in the league in 88, there was 14% of the league was American.

Now it's 32, 33%. And it's because of our generation. And to me, that brings me a lot of gratification, for sure. Is it crazy seeing the Kachuk brothers be like the torchbearers for this, having played with their dad? They kind of embody American hockey right now. Yeah, because I was one of the first people to lift them and put them in my arms when they were born.

Right? Literally. Keith Kachuk means the world to me, and his family means the world to me, and I was one of the first people to welcome those two kids into the world. And to see them right now dominating the hockey world, it's not surprising to me, but it's very gratifying to me that, that, that family is a beast of a legacy. They are seriously what, what Chantel and Keith, and I just don't mean Keith because Chantel has a lot to do with the way those boys were raised

and their daughter is also a beast of an athlete. That's a quality family right there. They do it right. They do it right. And they compete and they're, they're honest people. They're honest players. You might not like them, but boy, would you like them on your team? JR, we could, we could keep this going like for a long time, but I don't want to do that because you need to get a good,

nice rest. Cause it'll be the last one in the next little while. This might be the last good night. I have for a while. We can't thank you enough for joining us, man. You've always spoken from the heart, man.

And that's what makes you Jr. And we're so looking forward to you coming here, here in Toronto and helping you celebrate your great career man. Congrats. It was an honour and a pleasure chasing you around, never catching you but chasing you around.

Hey listen the great thing about hockey is we're all friends and we become better friends when we meet each other regardless of whether we played in the third line, fourth line, first line, or we played on the opposite sides of the country. And that's why I love you, Kipper. All right, pal.

We'll see you soon. Thanks for your time. Jeremy Roenick, everybody. Thanks, guys. All right. Wow, that was so cool. He's going to cry his eyes out. Oh, my God.

He's almost losing it now. Yeah, he's going to surpass Marc Messier. In terms of tears? Tears, yeah. There's some big feelings there. Yeah. I think we kind of caught a few of them. We sure did.

Yeah. And I think people got a nice warm-up to what lies ahead for five to seven minutes of his speech. There's no way it's five to seven. No. Sometimes they say when you're angry, you should write a letter then just throw the letter out. I'd like to see those first few speeches. Those first couple drafts would be pretty interesting.

And if the Hockey Hall of Fame is listening, you don't start music playing to get him off the stage like the Academy Awards. You just let him go. God, that was cool. He was a hell of a hockey player. And his time with the Flyers, he really tortured me as a kid. He scored that big goal after...

Being the Leafs out? Yeah, after Darcy Tucker laid the biggest body check in sports history on Sammy Kapanen. And then down the right wing, very similar to the one that Nick Cousins scored against Lizzie Scheider under the bar and did a big celebration. Yeah.

It's cool to have him on the show. Just to kind of round out the 2004 induction Hockey Hall of Fame. 2024, sorry. Coley Campbell, David Poyle, Natalie Darwitz, Chrissy Wendell uh pavel detsuk shay weber and of course jeremy ronick the video you sent me of your dad and coley campbell fighting today colon campbell on youtube is funny because my dad is all of six foot four and colon campbell can't be 5 10 but i built like a fire hydrant yeah and and you know not a competitive guy who went at a lot of bigger people yes and yeah my dad threw a lot of

downhill yes bobby was punching down yeah and the thing that led to it was like the collision was like this weird wrap up where they both went flying there's actually another video where colin campbell's fighting a sutter and my dad's third man's in just to hit campbell again i think they had some issues so how many games did you would you have said you played against ronick like that was like the same era you guys i was in the east he was always in the west yeah so once or twice but like we knew that there was this hot shot american kid coming out of school and could skate like the wind, but also could hit like a freight train too. And he was fearless right out of the get-go and cocky, like really cocky.

And he knew right off the bat that he wasn't trying to show people or prove to himself that he belongs he knew all along he belonged and it's it's tricky you get kids 18 some of them first rounders top five but deep down they're not sure if they really belong there yet this guy knew it i didn't realize he played in the queue but yeah he played for the holland peaks for 28 games he had 70 points that's ridiculous 19 points in nine playoff games so he was an entertainer you know like not just a hockey player he knew he was he was a showman he wanted to put on a show he was a showman and you know it's interesting because we as a as hockey culture should embrace that right like

we need elements of that but the second it happens a little bit think about this is not a defense of jr so much as a as a culture of hockey we should love people like this so to your point like this to your point like how many times have we played over and over again his exchange with patrick waugh oh my god on uh i i deked him out of his jock strap too i don't hear jr because of my two stanley cup rings in plugging my ears like that stuff lives that's u's UFC. Yeah. That's cutting a promo for, yeah. And that's part of the value. I know. Would it be so bad to say

about the other team that I don't like that guy and we're going to dummy them tomorrow night. It would be unbelievable for us to have something like that. I remember when he got buried and his face got all cut up and he was doing this. I mean, look at my face. That was JR, right?

Yeah. I mean, again, we could have talked to him for an hour. But I think two broken jaws. Yep. Like he can't have one original tooth in his mouth right now. There's just no way. And that's for a guy who put up 1,000 points or whatever he had. Animal.

Yeah. Animal. All right. You want a little game time? I do want thousand points or whatever he had. Animal. Yeah. Animal. All right. You want a little game time? I do want to do some game time. Let me get my sheet here on my computer. Go ahead. Yeah.

And then we've got Jason Buchla after the break to discuss a very big, big announcement from the NCAA. All right. It's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. So you mentioned earlier in the show that America

would be the favorite and we were just talking to JR one of the greater USA players ever that they would be the favorite in the four nations face off I come to you to tell you they are not the hockey power that he referenced and we beat them in 2002 one of the greatest moments

of my life. Canada is plus 125 in that. In America, USA is plus 200. Shouldn't we know the team first? Great point. Great point. The idea, that's how good we are. The idea of us is the favorite.

You know, some of the, I think Dom LeCision who does the models for the athletic ran like a projection or whatever um you know what the teams might be and who would be favored and it had the the usa pretty heavily favored yeah you know so i mean that to me if you're looking for value usa could be a value bet and a happiness hedge at the same time if you're a canadian say either the canadians win or you get paid i gotta got to tell you, I'm putting big money on USA. Are you? Oh, yeah.

Big happiness hedge for sure. That's the, like, I don't care if Finland wins. I don't care if Sweden wins. That's fine. You can't have the American wins without someone paying you a couple hundred bucks. I can't live that without a bit of compensation. Did your Montreal beat Toronto in the playoffs? Remember Sam made hundreds of them.

I made a lot. I made a lot. Everything's great. I really find it weird that you need to spend money to kind of protect yourself. Protect yourself. It's like, at least I can go buy a toaster. It's really weird.

I don't know. It's really weird. I don't know if you know this. I care a lot. This affects me. You can care and save some money. This affects my mood. And you mentioned,

you mentioned Finland as an interesting. They're plus 700. I got to tell you, I love that number. They're a plucky squad. They always play well together. A couple of hockey games. You're a good goalie. It's a short tourney.

They got great players. You know, I really like their team. So Sweden's plus 450 to round it out. So that's the odds according to Four Nations Faceoff on Bet365. And that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app to find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only.

Please play response play. That Finnish team we're talking about. Yeah, you're talking about Barkov and Aho and Rupe Hintz and Lundell. Lackanen, right? Yeah, Taravainen, Tolvanen. And then on the back end, it'sro heiskanen and lindell and you know micola ristelainen and then you're gonna have probably sorrows husso like they're they don't suck they don't suck at all small tournament you know those guys are games prideful fins and also

that's a team that's gonna like oh two-way play hard yeah you know they've played the exact same international hockey game in every single game i've ever watched them they're gonna get scored on five times in total and we'll see if they score six exactly okay we'll take a quick break we'll catch our breath if you're just joining us uh and you missed uh jeremy ronick on our show uh download it gotta kevin weeks is implying there's some sort of 11.5 million dollar deal he tweeted a picture of what appears to be the World Trade Center and 11.5 and a question mark and eyeballs. Shesty? I think that would be a discount.

Yeah. I think the Rangers would be lucky to get him at 11.5 and they should race to sign it. So I don't know. I think the Rangers will be lucky to get him at 11-5, and they should race to sign it. Yesterday's price is not today's price. Yesterday's price is not today's price. There's not many irreplaceable players. When you think about maybe a thousand guys going through teams year after year over 32 teams, how many are truly irreplaceable?

Yeah, you lose Shusterkin, it's like, you get Lankanen. They're legitimately 15, 20 points worse. It's like you have no choice. If he said tomorrow, I don't care about your cap. I want 14 million. They give him 14 million.

But that's not the way it's going to work out. But I'm telling you, he could be the one guy. There's a few. But he could be one guy that could easily get it. Alright then. Okay, let's a few, but he could be one guy that could easily get it. All right, then. All right.

Okay, let's take a quick break. As we mentioned before, the NCAA lifting eligibility ban on CHL players. And what lies ahead, Jason Bukala, former NHL scout, does a terrific job as an analyst here on Sportsnet, will be in studio to tell us exactly what that means for Sammy's Owen Sounds. This is all about the sound. When we return, Unreal,ipper and born. Get smarter. When you listen to hockey talk,

the hockey PDO cast with Dimitri Filipovich, subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Let's welcome in Jason Bukala, who's been on the show many times.

Does a great job breaking down many prospects, players, current players, and, of course, being a former scout, knowing the landscape between all prospects all over the world. In this instance, we are talking CHL. We're talking NCAA. And we're going to get right into it. A reminder that this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365. All right, let's go.

NCAA. Approved. Approved of a rule allowing CHL players now with experience to go down south something i didn't get a chance to do uh when i played in the chl more more questions now than answers here moving forward here jason get your thoughts well first off it eliminates that opportunity so i'll take you back a little bit when i was in sous ste marie with the Greyhounds in the early 2000s, we had a great team. Jeff Carter,

Craig Hartsford, coach, all that kind of stuff. But it was still difficult to recruit a kid out of the GTHL or at least have an interview with them and say, will you come play in Sault Ste. Marie? It was like we were living on the moon or something. And we weren't. You know what it's like up in the north. They love it up there, Kipper, their hockey, right? But that kid

would say things to us like, well, if you draft me, I'm just going to go play college hockey instead, right? I'm going to go play college hockey. Fast forward to today, what does this ruling mean? It takes a lot of those chess pieces off the board, first of all, strategically for some of the players. I spoke to some of my former colleagues in the Ontario Hockey League today, and I also made some phone calls south of the borders

to some of the NCAA guys. Fascinating, fascinating. So from the OHL side, some of the guys are already getting calls today, a couple hours later, from kids playing at the BCHL, Outlaw League right now, not affiliated with the Canadian Hockey Canada umbrella. They're getting calls today from some kids saying, hey, listen, I'm going to Providence next year. Do you have any, I see your rebuilding outfit.

Do you have any space on your roster? Oh, yeah. Because they can move right in. It's not going to impede them going south to the border next year. Right. They can come play major junior tomorrow. It could be like a developmental step for them on the way to college. Yeah.

Well, the kid is thinking to himself, you know,'re okay out here but i think the ohl be even better for my development suddenly now are some of those teams going to take some of those calls maybe i don't know you know it's possible here's something that's really fascinating to me i brought up the school packages you know how the chl kids are on these school packages so um imagine you go play for the own sound attack sammy you go play for the own sound attack sammy you go play for the own sound attack and you're there for three years and you're getting 12 000 a year on your school package now that same athlete decides he wants to go south of the border in year four instead of coming back for his oa year in the in the ohl or whatever um so there's 36 000

in the kitty if you will um the way they're positioning it is I thought they were going to say that they were going to eliminate school packages. The feedback I got today was that they're actually going to probably be bound to those, and there's going to be a new strategy going forward. Not sure what that looks like. But that $36,000 would save that school in the States some money because the kid already has that hitting campus. They would do it in reverse order.

They'd work together. They'd work together together this will bury tier two right like junior a teams whatever who basically were keeping good kids who wanted to go to college now if you're a kid you're just playing the highest level it's problematic and and let's think about the ushl big business ushl is a juggernaut i think this is just me i don't know the losers in this well i don't have any information yet this is my guide if i'm a franchise owner down there i want to become a member of the chl if at all possible i want i want that to happen i want to be part of that umbrella and start to play for the memorial cup because could they be a loser 100 they could what about if the kid playing in dubuque all of a sudden wants to come up and play in Regina for the Pats and ride shotgun with Conor Bedard when he was there?

You know, these types of things could legitimately happen. So there's a huge trickle-down effect that's going to take place here. And I haven't even got to development fees and the effect on the NHL yet because that's a bargaining thing and that's a CBA issue. So just more player options is a good thing but if you know we've seen at the junior a level here in the chl like programs books they they take three or four years sometimes to build to get to a memorial cup this really doesn't allow that like Like, is there any downside to knowing that a kid's going to come up here and only play two years and then leave?

Like, how do you build a program around that? But, you know, our kids who want to make the NHL are going to see NCAA as a better, you know, go play 30, 40 games. They may say, hey, here in the CHL is better for my NHL development if that's my focus, wouldn't they? It could be if you're a top six guy or you're a top pairing D or you're a one in net, okay? It could be that those players are going to stay in the CHL anyways

because they see that their clock to get to pro is tracking expeditiously in relation to where they are in their development cycle okay but if you get a guy who's playing for the london knights they're a juggernaut right and they do a fantastic job market deal but they take their time with their prospects not everybody gets it right away you have to stick around and then you earn your opportunity and i'm all for that by the way earn what you're you know you're given um but there's going to be some kids out there who are stuck in the three who are going to say to themselves, this isn't for me. I think that I'd be better suited at, you know, Michigan or Notre Dame.

You pick it, you know, whatever. But what about the smaller schools, Borny? How is it going to affect the smaller schools? Is it going to be good for them or not? Because there's only so many spots available. And are those smaller schools like the bowling greens and the lake states and all these other places anchorage you know who's had its you know trials and tribulations you know they you got to keep those programs going um you know is that like where are they going to be benefiting from this or are they going to be up against it

even more because those other big big schools are cherry-picking the best already on top of some of the best they already have. It's going to be a fascinating process. And then from there, I'm curious about money and name, image, and likeness. And like, you know, if you go to NCAA, all of a sudden, recently it's been that you can earn money. So if you're a big-name prospect, you're Conor Bedard, you know, is it like, hey, why don't i go make half a million dollars

playing for michigan state rather than playing for i don't know what they would make in the chl if anything you know like it's the opportunity to earn early is there yeah they're not making anything in the chl they're making you know they're per diem and stuff like that i don't i don't think it will i I mean, I guess it could. They're not making anything off a jersey sale in the pro shop. None of that's going on. When we start talking about money, so that's another one, the nil. Think back to when Austin Matthews, before he was drafted

and he went overseas even and played pro over there, went to the Swiss League and made X number of dollars. Are we going to start to see a high-end talent go to the school down south and actually get drafted out of Michigan or wherever the case may be and then qualify for nil? I don't know. There are some laws there. I don't know all the intricacies of it yet,

but my belief is that some of those kids have to play an exhibition game at least up here with the American franchise. Do you guys remember when the basketball teams were coming to Toronto a few years ago? Duke came up here, different ones. My understanding was it had something to do with NILT because there's some cross-border immigration

stuff. It's way above my pay grade, but there's a lot of moving parts. I'll throw this one at you guys. Imagine you are a first round NHL pick and you're, or second round NHL pick and you're taking a little bit longer

to develop for whatever reason. I'm sorry, picked from CHL? Yeah, CHL. So a Londonite player gets picked in the second round. Yeah.

Imagine this. And he's just taking a little bit longer, right, to develop. As an NHL club for player development, am I thinking to myself easton

coward is he better off going back to play for the london knights for another year at that level or is college hockey going to be something in between it's not the american league but is it going to be something older it's older it's a different style you know there's different the trainees like all this stuff you can spend the whole week in a gym basically. That's right. You're done at 20 and you're looking for a place to play. If you're waiting for that development, I totally see guys jumping ship a lot earlier than that. Absolutely. I do.

Absolutely. Less stability for these teams. Books, I see chaos the way it's spelled out to me. And I'm an American kid. Okay, I choose to come up here. And I'm not playing. I don't like the coach. See ya.

Like, it's going to be a revolving door. Like, the threat of a kid coming up and saying, where's my promise? And someone saying, you're not ready to play. And we got to be patient. And they're like, I'm out of here. Because every single kid thinks they're on their way. Good luck buying a program and having the same names finish the game that started the game here.

I'm with you. I'm with you. There's so many moving parts. And then we haven't even talked about, so imagine a Minnesota high school kid who goes down to play, you know, wherever in Omaha. And so he's in the center of North America. So he's a Western Hockey League territory guy.

I'll throw something really crazy at you. The kid comes up and he doesn't perform at a high level in the Western Hockey League. And he goes on waivers in the CHL. And now he's picked up by a Quebec league team even though his district was in the middle of North America there are so many levels of things that are going to and you know for a fact right now as we sit here talking because the phone like I said calls have been made you know that agents and coach like everybody today they're looking for that little little loophole to try and figure out what's the best connection here the CHL cannot compete with the multi-billion dollars coming out of the NCAA.

You know how much money those booster clubs have? Those booster clubs have, I mean, a bajillion dollars. Okay. And like, sorry, Sammy, but like, do I want... Sammy said today, he's like, Owen's not going to help them. Come and see my $30 million dressing room. Come and see where you're going to help them. Come and see my $30 million dressing room. Come and see where you're going to work out. Come and see the meals that we'll cook for you.

Come and see all of this, or go see Owen Sound's dressing room and their workout facility. Owen Sound didn't need to catch a stray there, Sam. He's not having that. I'm not picking on Owen Sound. I'm just using a small market. Like, listen. He doesn't help the Kelowna Rocks.

He doesn't help anyone. Here in Ontario, Oshawa, London, Kitchener, they carry the big bats. Yep. And they're going to maintain. And maybe they can persuade you that our program's better than anything you're going to get down there. But not everybody can sell a program with apples to apples and it's going to be tough it's gonna be really tough i mean university teams are gonna get picked through too i think uh i don't know about that no maybe i don't i think there's gonna be like i don't see

that being opening up the cash by the ncaa is it's going to be tough for CHL, who's predominantly for 40 years have paid the kids like 50, 90 bucks a week. Exactly, exactly. And you ride the iron lung. You know, if you're in the West and you're going from Brandon to Tri-City and, you know, all of a sudden you get a chance to go play in the, you know, the ECAs, imagine, all of a sudden you you get a chance to go play in the ECAs. Imagine, all of a sudden, you're going to play at BU, and BC is literally two sidewalk squares across the street from you.

It's a different experience altogether. It's not going to be for everybody, though. It's going to open up some more opportunity for some other kids up here. Is it going to dummy down our league? I guess that's my question out of the box, right? But to the own sound example, Dale DeGray has been there for 18 years. He runs a hell of a program.

It is buttoned up. Kids love to go there. Like the Suzuki's were there, or pardon me, Nick was there, right? You know, they like to play there. But if you're a smaller franchise and you hit the skids at all, you better get it back on the rails in a hurry because you'll never rescue your franchise.

Like, it better be buttoned up and being run, like, perfect. When you go to North Dakota, guys, their facilities, it's like the Toronto Maple Leafs. They have marble. It's in the middle of winter. You're walking in on marble floors in the foyer. My college hockey division was North Dakota. Then you go to Minnesota, the Golden Gophers,

that beautiful facility. Wisconsin seats 15,000 people. Some of these buildings, it's, I mean, NHL-like. It is. And if you're a young kid, that holds a lot of appeal. So something that did come up was co-branding. There is an opportunity here. And I think that Dan McKenzie, and again, I'm speaking out of turn.

I'm just spitballing. If I'm an administrator in the organization. It's all we do on our show. Okay, good. Nobody's listening. I think that they're going to look for a co-branding type of opportunity where now we are together. Like London and Michigan State have a partnership or something?

What are we talking about? I'm just talking marketing dollars. I'm talking like how can we facilitate it so that everybody from a business model perspective are made whole again. A little revenue sharing. A little revenue sharing. A little revenue sharing. I don't think the rev share will work because I'm not sure where that goes up through the NCAA, if it's a campus incubator or if it's a, you know,

how the CHL, but how about development fees? Let's talk about development fees. Like year over year, the NHL. So if you're drafted and if a CHL prospect is drafted, the Sudbury Wolves have a player that's drafted by the Toronto Maple Leafs. And the Toronto Maple Leafs, he's a first-round pick. And they go through the development process. At the end of it, when they sign the contract, his NHL deal,

there's development fees that roll back into the CHL. I'm telling you, it's probably close to $14 or $15 million a year that rolls back into the chl and development fees it's a real monstrous number it's a huge number so here's what happens um yeah because they put all the time into developing them and then you pluck them out especially the first rounders who would put more bodies in the seats if you just cut them a check thanks for developing our players it's negotiating and all the cba and everything yeah it's part of it there's a it's like the transfer agreements in europe and everything else that happens like there's transfer

agreements in place there as well so there's all that the ncaa as they sit here today they're not entitled to any of that like that's not their model like they don't take money that way right so um i'm curious to see how that affects things and i do know this that the one general manager told me today that if the kid signs to play here and we say it's going to be three years to collect your your school package here in canada and you leave after year two it's going to be null and void so then that's the risk that that ncaa college takes on because i don't know if you remember not bernie but when you hit an ncaa campus everybody up here thinks you're a great player i'm going to get a full ride to the States.

That is not how it works. They cut you in any time. Well, and there's no full... The American model is so good now that I can take a local, an in-state kid in Michigan, University of Michigan, it's a private, Michigan State's a state school. Two different echelons of enrollment costs. Totally different.

Michigan's twice as much, especially for an international student. That comes out of my budget, my 16-player budget, and I have X number of dollars to work with. The more local guys I get, they're way cheaper. In-state guys, like 15 grand. I went to Alaska. British Columbia counted as in-state. So they got a ton of BC guys.

A ton of BC guys. Could the CHL do themselves a favor by, like, the overage, right, is 20. Yeah. One, two overage. If you push it to 21 or 22, could that help them out a little bit if we see that expanded? I don't know because then I guess my fear out of the box would be that the younger guy would leave to somewhere else sooner.

And you never see him. You know, because you're keeping around a couple older guys. I know there's a lot of people scattering trying to say, how do I cash my piece of this check? You know, like, how do I get involved here? Things are just getting settled. How about the NCAA kid? So I'm NHL scout. I'm going to watch a kid play.

If I sign a major junior kid and he's an OA, I got to turn him pro right away. Right? You know, he's got to go to the American League next year. I'm'm an NHL scout. I'm going to watch a kid play. If I sign a major junior kid and he's an OA, I got to turn him pro right away, right? You know, he's got to go to the American League next year. I'm signing him to NHL deal. I signed a kid to Oxford. When I go down to the States and I watch an NCAA guy, yes, I'm signing him to turn pro, but guess what? Generally speaking, those guys are a little bit older,

so their entry-level deal for me as an executive in the NHL is shorter because he's probably 22 or 23. So instead of a three-year entry-level deal i might be looking at a two so strategically when you start looking at your depth charts and your clocks internally with your prospect pool again it starts to affect things like that and this is a huge effect on the nhl and the collective bargaining agreement because there's different rules for NCAA players in terms of how long you can control their rights compared to CHL players. So they're going to have to.

And the CBA is coming up. Like this is probably. This should be at the top of their list. That will be at the top of the list. 100% it will be because if you draft them out of CHL and I got a two-year window on them. Yes. It's disjointed right now. If I draft a kid out of Finland, I got four.

If I draft him out of the USHL, I've got four. If I draft him out of the CHL, I've got two. There's going to have to be some synergy there, isn't there? Yeah. It's going to have to happen. I mean, the thing that I like about this is it's empowering for players. The world is your oyster. You can go play anywhere now that wants you and that fits you.

And I think, you know, that ultimately that puts pressure on the organizations, the CHL teams too, to provide welcoming, positive environments that are, you know, offering to develop you. You have to be appealing or people are going to say see ya. So how quickly can we see a different looking Memorial Cup? I think that discussion is going to happen through the course of this winter and definitely at their Board of Governors meetings that they have towards the Memorial Cup this year in Rimouski. You know, sooner than later.

I would suggest to you that depending on what the USHL and the CHL can come to an agreement on in terms of just everything there, ideally you'd like to have four leagues if you could in North America. I would propose to you guys there's enough bodies, there's enough quality out there that we should have four, not just like that host team getting an automatic buy. So, yeah, I think that if I'm a... But again, I start thinking about the Madisons of the world in the USHL compared

to the Muskegans and the Dubuques and some of these other places. Waterloo, Party Town USA, when you go in there and watch a game, I mean, they're crazy, the fan base. The place is packed. Fascinating development. Fascinating. Stay tuned. Yeah, stay tuned. Alright, we got 20 seconds.

Books, thanks for doing this, pal. Under some short notice. Glad to see you. All right, thanks to Jeremy Roenick, Joshua Cloak from The Athletic. And Bruce Springsteen. And Bruce Springsteen. Okay.

Man, this show just flew, eh? That was a good show. It was a good show. Hey, we're patting ourselves on the back. That's what we do, because no one else will. Have a great night, everybody.