Real Kyper & Bourne - How to Fix Morgan Rielly

Episode Date: January 17, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee tee up tonight's Leafs game against the Florida Panthers and discuss goaltending and defence holding the Panthers back and Morgan Rielly's recent struggles. Former Panther and current Panthers analyst Ed Jovanovski gives his take (22:39) on how to get Rielly back on track, how Aaron Ekblad has had similar slumps and gives a season outlook for Florida. They are then joined by Keith Tkachuk (41:52) who shares an insider perspective of his son Matthew's experience with the Panthers this season and what it was like raising his sons to be mold-breaking NHL pros. Later, Daily Faceoff's Mike McKenna joins the show (1:05:59) to break down the Panthers' goaltending situation, why goalie gear is extremely important and who he likes better between Matt Murray and Ilya Samsonov.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Back at the saddle. We are Real Kipper and Born live on Sportsnet 590. Our YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now. iTunes, Spotify. Glad you're aboard for the next couple of hours as we go into game night florida panthers in town to play the toronto maple leafs winners of three of four as we oh boy hit the halfway mark, we're wondering, is anyone going to push

Tampa, Toronto, Boston in the Atlantic? As much as I've heard all week how the Ottawa Senators still want to play meaningful games. You got to win. Somewhere you got to start winning. winning last night that didn't happen but it did for the florida panthers beating the buffalo sabers so is that's is that all that's left for teams that could get into the mix florida panthers

yeah i mean the buffalo sabers could can see i mean it's a long long long shot i think they're 13 points behind tampa bay so uh unlikely for buffalo but florida the reason florida i'm less skeptical of them is their season last year they're not things have not gone well this year but were they to get some goaltending you can see that there's a lot of good players on that team you could see them getting hot could you not as you mentioned three or four and if you do the fancy stats sorting they're pretty good they had creating offense or the best teams in the nhl are creating offensive opportunities so there's something there okay let's uh we'll we'll stay on that theme before we get into the lineup changes with

sheldon keith but first let's get his thoughts on the Panthers you know some some things have changed and some things have remained the same and you know we talked this morning that we just you know we just played against Boston who's one of the top offensive teams in the league and in many statistical categories this team actually are trends higher than them and better than them. So in that sense, offensively, they've just been extremely dynamic. They make a lot of plays. Their defensemen are very involved in a lot that they do and very good at run your net, all that kind of stuff.

So they present a great deal of challenges there, great transitions. So all of those things I think have held true to last season as well. I haven't watched closely enough or long enough over the season to pinpoint why it hasn't worked out as well for them. But in terms of the respect we have for them as a team and their players, that's unchanged. And statistically, you look at it

and, you know, it's a dangerous-looking team. The most Sheldon Keefe comment ever, that this team is better than the Bruins. I was kind of focusing on this chocolate that derrick gave me just prior to the show is that true that sheldon said in many ways uh the panthers are better than the boston bruins where they're offensively they check you know in terms of creating also expected goals is what i'm talking about in sport logic. They're a top team in the NHL. I mean, they still get a ton of opportunities when they play.

Just sorting through it there. Third and shot attempt. Second, third and shot on net. Second and slot shots. First and inner slot shots in the league. So they get to the dangerous areas and they get pucks on net. Was one category. Can they stop a puck?

Oh yeah. There's category. They're 50th in that. They're legit 50th. Spencer Knight is 50th and goal saved above expected 50th. Okay. So it's not good. How many goalies are there?

62, 64. Therein lies the problem with the Floridaida panthers is sometimes it's that simple it's their own zone yeah it's the blue line and it's the lack of getting a big save it is and even their defensive stats like you whatever you think underlying numbers are not terrible they're they're a top 10 team They're around 10th in the NHL in giving up slot shots and chances and 15th in expected goals against. So, yeah, they're not the best defensive team, but they aren't as bad as their goalies make them look.

In the next two hours, we're going to be joined by Ed Jovanovsky, of course, big-time former NHL defenseman with Florida who's doing a Panthers TV. He's going to come down and break us uh a few things down on what we can expect out of the panthers like keith kachuk proud papa yes of matthew and and brady will be along as well former nhl player tough guy who's that again gilbert godfrey rest in peace yes um we'll always have that did you gilbert we will have that do you know that there are three players in the nhl that are leading their team

in both points and pims i suppose that one of them will be playing tonight against the toronto that is one of the three can Can you guess the other two? The brother. Yeah. That's true. Do they have another brother? Yeah. Steve could Chuck. No,

the other one is a hold on. Hold on. Okay. Bad team. Bad team. Bad team. Bad team. Easter West.

What's Chicago in? Another famous dad. Yes good max domey correct that's so interesting yeah um had a brain fart at chicago just to round it up mike mckenna daily face off in the next hour as well so terrific terrific show. Booked by yours truly. Sammy McKee. Sammy O. We didn't even discuss this one. This was just hey boys. Here's who's coming on.

What a lineup. Okay. That's just you know. Let's keep the expectations down. Once in a while I get hot. Like anything. So just talking about how bad the goaltending is. For the Florida Panthers.

And their next year will be paying their two goalies $14.5 million. Is that good? For three full seasons, that $14.5 million for their two goalies with Spencer Knight and Sergey Bobrovsky. Knight's save percentage is in 899 through 19 starts. That's just a train wreck. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. So what do you do?

I mean, no one's taking your bad goal. You cost a lot. Okay. I assume this is going to be the push right now from Florida. It cannot slip here i three out of four in a short sample size maybe playing their their best hockey of the year

right now yep so i assume that this is a must win for them against an Atlantic division team. Like you cannot, yeah. Cannot lose to Toronto and still think that you can make up ground here. No, it's they're at that point now where they've burnt their grace period. And you know, they don't, they're not going to win every game from here on out,

but you need to start stockpiling points to a climb the standings, but also, so your GM takes you seriously and gives you players that make you better and not worse at the deadline like you don't have until mid-april you have until the end of february to show that you got a chance to get in the fight there is no wiggle room here they are much like a handful of teams including the toronto maple leafs where the salary cap will not allow them to make a lot of changes here and the worst about it is that they don't even have first rounders in the next three years to dangle at least kyle does yeah you know looking at their team though the problem they don't have much on the back end like brandon montour has been a bright spot for them carter verhege up front has been good but there's just i don't know he the more you look at it the

more you think last year was the aberration and not what's going on this year and just as a note i had told you that spencer knight might be starting tonight he is on the uh he's hurt right now so it's going to be either bobrovsky in the second half it's going to be either Bobrovsky in the second half of a back-to-back. No, it's going to be a kid. Or Alex Leon. I think it's the kid. Yeah. Well, he's not much of a kid. He's 30 years old. Alex who?

Lyon. Lyon. L-Y-O-N. Played for the Flyers for a little bit. He's a minor league guy. Minor league. Up and down. That's why I don't know him.

24 career starts in the NHL. 24? Yeah. This will be his 25th at the Eagles tonight. I imagine that's who they're going to put in. Maurice didn't announce a goal this morning. Said there's a chance they'd go back to Bobrowski. Who's 4-1-0 with a 9-19 save percentage over his last five starts.

Okay. There you go. He's starting to pick it up. Eric Stahl has 38 games and 14 points. But the analytics on Florida, at least when it comes to the offense, does does bode well for why they were successful last year. That's true.

Yeah, if you had better shooting percentage, better goal tending. A fairly dangerous team on a night-to-night basis, but the blue line is it it was the trade that actually probably hurt them

defensively more than ever by losing Weger, McKenzie. Weger's been great for Calgary. Like, you know, he felt like such a throw-in in that trade. I know, you know, we know he was a substantial piece, but it just felt like they were so... They hated him in Florida. What was that about?

They just didn't think he knew what he was doing defensively. Yeah. It really feels like they did the complete opposite of the leafs where they got swept by tampa bay and they said can't win with this group too soft over you know and they turned it over and said forget it not going to win this is the trade rather than just saying you know we had some success this season let's not overreact to four games here. And boy, did they overreact.

And it's not like it's working out great for Calgary either. They're hanging on. They miss having elite talent, top-end talent. They're in a challenge here. And Huberto, the style of play that he had that was successful for him is almost like the complete opposite of what works in Calgary because East-West and having that flow game

that we were accustomed to seeing in the 80s before the two of you were born. I was born in the 80s. I'm an 82. Yeah, I was kind of just... Okay. I get what you're getting at. I was joking.

Yeah, I get it. But I'm close. I close you think i'm that young more than 90s wow but that's the the east west the the drop passes the flow all of it is it's not flying with daryl and it's not flying with jonathan because he cannot produce like he did in florida so weird though is how gaudreau figured it out he figured out a way to play a way that sutter would tolerate while still getting to do the things that made him effective and i feel like that's a challenge like when you're huberto and you play a certain way to create your offense the coach says i don't like the way you play and then you gotta kind of go

okay well should i do it the way i know it works or do it the way that this guy wants me to do it i think he's probably been searching for his flames identity not to mention the big contract now a little bit extra weight all right we're gonna go to uh jovenoski in about 10 minutes but before that let's talk about the lineup changes for the toronto maple leafs sheldon keith will give us an update on that and what the florida panthers can be looking at tonight. Murray's in that, yeah. And on the other guys, Sandin and Holmberg, it's for them. They're feeling better. Obviously, they're here and able to skate, but we just determined that giving them more time

to get back up to full strength and have a day of eating proper food and keeping it down and all that kind of stuff would serve them well, so they won't be available tonight. No, I get it. They were sick. I get it. I get the flu. I get all of that.

It doesn't matter whatever area you are. I'm waiting for the butt on this. No, the butt is that I'm starting to get a real sense here that whether it's the flu or even a minor injury um a hangnail they're they're just not in a pressing need to get people in the lineup to win you know with a sense of urgency from here on end they're gonna they're gonna do what they have to do in a grand picture to get ready for the playoffs do you not get that sense yeah well yeah i just feel like in general that's the way they operate where they're like it's middle of the season more so now you think so and and it has everything to do with the fact that

boston's gone and and run away with this thing. Maybe. It certainly could. Like, what is the point in having a guy force his way through when it's not a matter of making the playoffs or finishing here or there? We got the luxury of saying, take a day. They're kind of caught where we don't have to push these guys. That's not good. Well, no, I don't know if it's not good or not. It's definitely not good.

Why is it not good? If you go from here, the next 39 games of the season going well. I don't think it'll be like that because guys generally want to play. Right. Right. If you're healthy, if you feel good, put me in. I want my cookies. I want my points.

And then I'll flip the switch and try when it's playoffs? Well, no, not try. They just won't push the envelope. That's all. Yeah. And I don't know. That's the smart thing, right? Wouldn't you say that's the smart thing to do?

I think it gives them the best chance to kind of be ready, I think, for the first round. And you will still hit some key games like we saw Saturday night. Austin taking two nights off didn't stop them from having playoff type intensity saturday night did it no no i guess not it's and it is the right thing to do right like you're sick stay away from the team although it doesn't sound like they're away from the team but they skated i think today did they they did they had a couple of as brody did yeah there's a bunch of ranks down at their facility yeah yeah go cough on that ring

did you send did you guys see the video i sent you of brody skating today was long enough for me to reach the conclusion you did you didn't like the look it didn't look like he was enjoying the stride but you don't get the you don't you don't get to see in five seconds on the internet what the drill was all about or what the uh emphasis was on his first three strides the drill was don't rotate your trunk he was really excelling at the drill yeah it is there is some concern there it's funny how quickly you lose a guy or two and this is a eye-opener reminder from from playoffs you lose brody sandin you know is got the sniffles and now your third pair is ben timmons which you hope they can shoot better than ben simmons of the nba but

ben timmons is not not a playoff pairing so but they have the lily pad the lily pad and shelvin yes yes speaks very highly of the lily pad yes let's uh go to sheldon on that one but i think it's just with lily in particular i would put it to the consistency like he had times last season where you could really see him popping and for that i would i would point to like physicality on the rush and killing plays early winning a puck back and then launching the transition or just the way the puck's coming off his stick in the offensive zone. And it's just happening more frequently, and he seems to be that much more comfortable

in playing both sides of the puck here this season. So, yeah, he really took big steps last season, and he seems to have maintained that and continued to find the consistency necessary to just be a guy that is just in your lineup and you're happy to have him and you can lean on him when you really need to. And it seems like he's been able to handle anything we've thrown his way.

It's all legit. So, Timothy Lilligren, this is this is from sportsnet stats they sent out a great stat pack he is number one on the team in goal share at five on five for the lease he's been on the ice for 27 goals for and 13 goals against so 67.67.5 yeah that's a big advantage the leafs have for a third pair is they they handle their minutes morgan riley is has been on for 20 goals four and 23 against yeah obviously the context is who are who you're playing against and riley is one of two players in the league that have played 20 plus games and our only defenseman on their team with a negative plus minus cool cool cool cool cool

cool cool noah dobson is the other one on the islanders yeah let me just say on the keith quote those aren't pretty no it's not good it's not good on the keith quote about how he's become a guy that you just have in your lineup and you're happy to have him which is great but it's it's it's praise yes ish yeah but you know like i think for a lot of guys that's what you want from your demon that's what i want to hear about justin hall i want to hear that you're happy to have him and you just don't think about him or whatever those are great qualities if you're kind of slotted into i would say three four five he's in every night we don't think about him. He does his job. Right? Right.

Just the one and the two is that you want. And that leads us to Morgan Riley. Yeah. Where he's been lost since he's come back. I don't know any other way to kind of frame it. Yeah. other way to kind of frame it yeah but he he looks like he's just caught on what on what he wants to be on any particular night yeah don't you love it if he was your second best defenseman wouldn't that be good i don't even think his his plays warrants that right now yeah but what is what is morgan riley to you morgan riley has always been as a number one guy in the nhl a little extended to call a true number

one but there's 32 teams so he's a true number one he's one of the 32 best d in the league but at the tail end of that group and so asking him to be the number one guy without a real, like, you know, Lindholm to McAvoy or Sergeyev to Hedman to be this true standalone number one guy, you're falling behind the good teams with him as your number one. And it's not meant as a knock on Riley.

That's just the construction of the team. They don't have an elite number one. They have a number one in Riley, but not an elite number one they have a number one in riley but not an elite number one he's not even a top half for me he's starting to to go into that place where um he's gonna get knocked he is gonna get knocked what do you mean by not verbally like yeah by you say you can't knock him okay right okay and i'm saying there's some plays out there now where where he's he's uh he's in between he's caught yeah uh whether or not he should stay or go and he's there the fan base is going to start really knocking on him it's happening it's

happening online now you think it's already it's fullblown? Where's Riley on the grand scheme of things of the blame game right now? I would say borderline the number one talking point amongst the fan base. It's percolated from the— Justin Holl is just Homer Simpson into the bushes. It's percolated from below the surface to very near the surface in terms of talking points. Well, here. For me, I watch him and he doesn't know whether to. I think that's a good point that you're making.

Doesn't know where to go. Are you an offensive defenseman? Where to go, what to do. It seems every decision he makes is a bad one. So here's what I want to know from you. And is it better to have him commit to being the offensive guy the leafs don't have any offense from the back end nick they got nothing no offense from their d the answer to that is no so don't you want to get it from someone no

no that's just more pressure on your boy mitch okay he can handle it and so can austin yeah i i'd sooner i'd sooner want this team to lose 2-1 uh then say go out score riley's latest go out there and and and just you know find a way to win 7-5 it's not helping riley i i would go back and i'd watch games with morgan when he wasn't in the lineup and watch rd and watch the the percentages of the plays that they make right and the risk factor yeah and we were really good when you weren't there but watch the decisions and that's where morgan gets himself in trouble is that he's going against the grain of everything that worked in the month of november when he wasn't there and i think he needs to simplify his game and just focus on being on the right side and being incredibly cautious when he's on the

ice that's where i would start with morgan riley this sounds whatever don't you think he could benefit if his playing style were a bit more like mark giordano's in that the thought now for giordano's he doesn't care if he ever gets another point he won an oris trophy right he just wants to be the guy breaks it out quick gets it up the rink, do those sort of defensive things. And I understand that's a big switch for Riley. But what does the tail half of his career look like if it's a success? It's probably not being Eric Carlson.

Do we have a guess? Yeah, we're going to go to Jovo, and maybe we can just pick this conversation right up. Perfect guy to talk to. Ed Jovanovsky, former NHL defenseman. He knows a little bit throughout his, what, close to 1,200 National Hockey League games. Jovo, thanks for joining us, man.

How are you? Hey, I'm good, guys. Thanks. Yeah, listen. Everything good over there? Yeah, it's okay, you know. I mean. It's January in Canada, Ed.

Breaking it down with a microscope here. You know this city, right? Right in the thick of it. Yeah, we're just talking about, you know, when certain defensemen get caught between where is my true strength? Is it on offense? Is it on defense? I mean, you've had success on both sides of the puck in your career

morgan riley is the guy that uh seems to be a bit of a whipping boy these days here up in toronto but when things aren't going well on both sides what does a defenseman do to kind of get himself back on track well i you guys have i'm sure heard this and seen it through your days but you know maybe a little easier said than done but just keep it simple every time there was there was a point in my career where you know not wouldn't say overwhelmed but just kind of like too much and just let the puck do the work you know get into a game focus on making a good first pass, getting back quick, having that couple extra seconds to make that pass and let the puck do the work. Don't try to beat that extra guy.

You know, his skating is so good. So he's always going to be that fourth and fifth man, you know, get the puck at the point. Listen, you don't have a lane, get it back behind the net. Don't complicate things. And then a D zone, do your own job. You know, sometimes you feel like you're kind of bigger than you can play two positions, right? Instead of kind of taking care of your own,

you try to help your buddy, just kind of complicate some things. And then at the end of the day, it's your guy that ends ends up scoring so just kind of focus on what you can focus on and um you know things will kind of fall into place he's a guy that's going to get ample opportunity plays in every situation i haven't been following the struggles of of riley but been there done that you know you know what it feels it's just about getting your confidence back. Right. Yeah. And he's a, he's an elite defenseman and I'm sure it's, it's right there for him. Yeah.

A little bit of patience would go a long way when you're naturally talented. It tends to, you tend to figure it out, which is a natural segue to talk about as well. Yeah. Oh yeah. We're seeing the same thing a little bit with Aaron Eckblad too. I mean, you know, he's been injured, so he comes back. He feels like, you know, he can do a little bit more.

Being off for a while, the conditioning's not there, you know, and he's just starting to kind of, you can see his game picking up, but you can see the confidence was lacking. These top players, you know, you always say it, have feelings, too, you know, and always you try to, you know, get their confidence, try to keep the game as simple as possible until you feel that confidence to maybe do a little bit more. Yeah, and I'm wondering with that whole decor for Florida,

obviously this team had a ton of success last year, maybe struggling a little bit more on the defensive side of things than the offensive side of things, Is the decor the issue there? Well, it's all, you know, you talk about that trade, and, you know, I'm always asked, what do you think of the trade? Listen, you bring in Matthew Kachuk with the age 24. He's been everything and more coming into this situation in Florida. Aaron Eckblad played with Mackenzie Wieger for a better part of a handful of years.

So the chemistry was there. They're playing in all situations together. You know what it's like when you have that confidence and that familiarity that you're playing with your partner for years. I've done it too where I have a partner for a few years. It's great. Then you bring someone else and then maybe you're switching sides, right? You're not playing your normal position.

I think it has had a little bit of a trickle-down effect on the back end. Montour has done an unbelievable job kind of filling in that weaker position. And now you've got Mahura, a guy playing more minutes. Forsling, who's having another great year, he's playing a little bit more minutes. So, I mean, that trickle-down effect has had a little bit of an issue on the back end. But over the last handful of games,

you can see him getting a little bit stingy on the back end, a little bit more attention to detail, getting the pucks out in certain areas where they were turning those pucks over early on and it ended up in your net. So you can see their all-around game, something that they preached from day one, trying to build that playoff-style hockey that wasn't working early on. But you can start seeing the message getting through to the guys from the

coach. We're talking to Ed Jovanovsky, former NHL defenseman and now working for Panthers television for Bali sports. Jovo 11 points behind Tampa in the Atlantic. And they, and Tampa, look in that park.

Tampa's got three games in hand so what is the sense in Florida that they're still in it that they can come back where's the attention now well

Pittsburgh and Washington I think right now I think you're looking in those wild card positions being you know being four points out of that position yes florida's played 45 games or you know wash has played 46 but i think kind of get into those areas there is is i mean you got to go on a serious heater i think to get to get into those situations. But I think right now, Kipper, as you know, game at a time, right? I think tonight's going to be a nice measuring stick, kind of see if they can continue this, you know, playing well. They haven't won three games in a row all year, you know,

which is like mind-blowing, right? When you look at this team, what they did last year and on the runs that they would go on. So trying to develop that consistency. But yeah, looking into those wild card positions, kind of sneaking into those areas is something that, you know, I know the guys are looking at. Just one more on before I go to you, JB, just the big trade and how everybody spoke of it being a win-win.

When the Panthers struggle, is that something that the marketplace would go back and revisit? Is that talk amongst the hockey people down there? I know what it would be like in Canada to revisit that on the struggles of Florida and Calgary. So what is the narrative off that blockbuster trade that ultimately landed you guys, Matthew Kachuk? Well, first of all, I'm not sure this big trade even made the paper when it happened way back then. So let's talk about the media.

I mean, it's not like it's heavily covered. You know, I think there's, yeah, I mean, the easy thing to say, Kipper, is, yeah, you know, a team has struggled. And you know what? They shouldn't have, you know, got rid of Huberto and Uyghur. Yeah, it's kind of the easy cop-out thing to do. I think if this trade was there again to be made, I think

Bill Zito pulls the trigger. It's up to the guys, too, to come out and perform. They just didn't perform early on and things were snowballing. They just couldn't get out of a rut. Matthew Kachuk has come in here and done an unbelievable job. I don't need to

go over his numbers, but what he does also is kind of drag the boys into the fight. And this team gets in the playoffs. I'm curious to see kind of what his game, how this team will transform in the playoffs because he's that type of player that I think is well-suited for the playoffs. And frankly, I think, you know,

you look at the last couple of years, there wasn't much fight, you know, on the, on the front end by the guys, you know, specifically the guy that they moved, you know, it wasn't you know, on the playoff time as you know, your star players get checked a little bit harder and you got to fight through that. And I like Matthew Kachuk in that position. Yeah, for sure.

You know, a guy I wanted to ask you about was the guy who keeps getting all the most underrated player in the league conversation and Selke conversation, Barkov. How has his year been? Well, not by his standards not not great yeah i i think he you know he battled pneumonia there early on and he was out and he was uh um you know coming back it's always tough you know from that illness getting your conditioning back but you know you see spurts of it why you know maybe the number he's a point a game guy right now still you know, you see spurts of it, why, you know, maybe the number, he's a point-of-game guy right now, still, you know, 35 games, got 35 points.

But what he does in key situations, right, guys, he's a face-off guy. The way he, you know, that horse centerman in the middle, the way that he can track back and break up plays, the way that he can layer in the defensive zone, where he's really kind of covering up as that next man for the defenseman to start the breakout out. So there's many facets that, you know, probably the normal guy is not really looking at that is a difference that he's contributing.

I mean, certainly you want his offensive numbers to pick up, and I think right now where this team is, not a better time for the horse to lead the way for this group. Hey, Jovo, 24 years ago today, where were you? Yeah, I was brought up earlier. Yeah, that's pack your bags up, Joel. Thanks for coming. 22 years old, but they ship you off to Vancouver.

Thanks for everything. Yeah um yeah listen it was you know my daughter was six months old at the time when i got traded so um it was just like i'm like oh my god what's now what i get traded the next morning i'm on a 6 a.m i'm on a flight to dallas nashville back to back i got Mike as my coach. He played with 29 in 32 minutes back-to-back and then get to Vancouver, Mark Crawford's their coach. And then I didn't see the sun for 19 days when I got to the old British Columbia, but it worked out pretty good for me in Vancouver.

It was a city that I didn't really want to leave when I went to Phoenix. Was there any sense of you being a part of that, or was that just dropped right into your lap? You know what? I should have known this in a quick story, so the dogs are barking. I was in Vancouver.

We were playing Vancouver, and it was morning skate. And I'm out there, and I'm watching the team Vancouver skate. And Snowy, Gar Snow skates by him. He's like, hey, Jovo, what number do you want? Oh, no way. Wow. So I'm like, oh, shit. I'm like, oh, here we go.

So, yeah, sure enough, you know, I think a month later, there I am, you know, with the, you know, got the trade and here's what happens. But I ran into Berkey, actually, when he was down here, and he was telling actually my son. He's like, you know what, I wasn't making that trade unless your dad was in that trade, you know. So, yeah, it was good times over there but certainly at 22 with a newborn at home you just never expected and you also where you were drafted you know in

an organization you didn't think after a couple years that just kind of pulled the plug on you but here's what it is uh just from afar you know for someone that has spent uh a lot of time in that vancouver canuck organization uh oh man it's it's tough to watch i would imagine for you even more so because you know how how great it can be there yeah yeah you're you're absolutely right and you, it's a great market day, just like Toronto, right? It's hockey 24-7. And when things are going well, it's a real special place. And it's unfortunate how, you know, things have kind of evolved,

you know, there were goalie situations. You know, now you've got kind of a captain that's, captain that's not sure where that's going to go. I'm sure Bruce has already got his luggage packed. I mean, who knows how this is going to unfold. And the comments that are Jimmy Rutherford coming out there that just got to really kind of dive into kind of finding out what issues are. But it's tough, you know, and things especially in a market where there's so hockey craze

and the passion is there. And it happened to me when I got there. We were like, you know, very like 13,000 people there. The next year, throughout my career, there was a complete sellout all those years. You know, so it kind of got the team kind of back on you know that respectability and it seems like now watching the games you see look you know quite a bit empty seats hopefully they can kind of get it together there and

and figure things out well happy anniversary on your 24 years ago today where Pavel Burry was also thrown into the trade, was he not? Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know what really ticked me off on that whole thing? My paychecks got smaller for some reason. Came up to Canada from Florida. That's tough.

Joe, I really appreciate... I'm like, what happened here? Yeah. Really appreciate your time guys okay former nhl defenseman former vancouver canuck 24 years ago traded with or for pavel bury you know i don't know if you can have a much worse tax swing on your check can you going from no income tax in florida the actual trade what was the total trade i'm pulling it up right now um it was uh it was brett hedekin brad ferentz uh conditional draft

pick uh with beret to florida for dave gagne ed jovanovsky kevin weeks mike brown and a conditional draft pick wow yeah that's a blockbuster yeah that's a block that's a block for jovo was a jovo's 6 3 2 20 500 career points on the schnoz by the way and it must have been uh for those two years after um pavel got traded to florida the two years he went 58 59 goals the first two seasons he went to florida electric if you're jovo trying to live up to that stay-at-home defenseman playing in the gloom in vancouver then they're taking an extra 30 off your paycheck great jovo did mention the thought of a wild card in the east for florida they are yeah that's a good thought

well it is but it's one of those where washington is eight in front of them and pit is four in front of them with two games in hand and we believe one of Washington Pitt or the Islanders will miss the playoffs. Right? Are we there now? If Florida gets in, two of them have to miss. That's right. Right. Washington Pitt and the Islanders.

Is that realistic? That news for my Islanders. If Washington Pitt and the Islanders, too, will miss the playoffs for Florida to get in at this point i wouldn't bet on that i've watched a couple no penguins games recently i know they're a little stinky too i would you know they're they're missing jari which is obviously huge yeah um i just i'm concerned about the penguinos i know and you know what we've been saying that for two and a half three years and every time we do sid and mike sullivan bail them out guess what we've also limped the first round get dummy i don't care they get in right yeah we also said you know

these kind of things about tom brady and then we watched last night so to me it's just i i i would bet if i had to make a bet right now on who would make the playoffs this year, either the Cats or the Penguins, I'd probably get some value on the Panthers, and I'd probably take them. You did pick Brady at the end of yesterday's show, by the way. Yeah. What did I tell you? I don't want to look like an idiot betting against the GOAT.

What did I tell you? What did I tell you? You're right. Listen, I can live with going down at the goat, you know? Divorce, not his year. No, tough year. Tough year. Selfish.

Selfish. Incredibly selfish move. I just could not have any less time for that. Did you catch his post-game press conference? Did he cry? Tell me he cried. Well, it was like he was thanking everybody. Not about the divorce, but the loss.

Oh, okay. Oh, was he retiring again? cry tell me well it was like he was thanking everybody the loss oh okay oh it was retiring again well it sounded like uh thanks uh uh well goodbye at least tampa yeah he's going somewhere else no he's yeah he's gonna go somewhere else yeah that's my guess him and um please don't go away for the jets well don't do it i'd rather watch zach wilson throw it six yards downfield to the other team than Tom Brady. Him and Sean Payton are going to team up, go to the Jets, and they're going to win a Super Bowl, and you're just going to have to love them.

Anyways. I don't think I could do it. I truly don't. Yeah, you could. Enough, Brady. Okay. Now, Keith Kachuk. We will be discussing the son combination.

Leading scorers, leading scores, leading PMs. I'm sure dad wouldn't have it any other way. Keith could Chuck after the break, you're watching and listening to real Kipper and born. Toronto Maple Leafs ready to battle tonight against the Florida Panthers, who in many ways are looking at a must-win game. Florida will come in all juiced up. Matthew Kachuk ready to battle.

Yeah. I mean, they're in a back-to-back, but you know they're going to bring it. We don't have Matthew Kachuk as our next guest, but we have someone close. Very close. Yeah. The man who is responsible for putting him on this planet. How's that for an opening? Let's welcome in Keith Kachuk.

Not bad. Now, before we get going, are you still the director of recruitment for the St. Louis Blues? Correct. That is correct. Do you suck? Because you couldn't get your own kid there.

I must suck. I don't think my kid wanted to deal with me every day. So he decided to go elsewhere. Oh man. And like, is that like a part-time thing or i mean are you on the road i'm on the road a lot i work i mean i'm an empty nester now just the wife and i so i want to get out and i work for the blues and i do it full time i like doing the free

college free agents and help out the amateur draft and whatever they need me to do, I'll do. I just can't sit around here all day. And you weren't tempted to fly up to watch this game tonight against the Leafs? A hundred percent, no. We just had Ottawa in town. First of all, it's a grind just to get to Canada these days, you know? But no, we had Ottawa Senators in town,

so the night before Sunday night we had ottawa senators in town so we had uh the night before sunday night we had all the trainers over and uh some of the younger players over so it was good so i'm just trying to recover so you obviously you've been paying a lot more attention to the florida panthers this year their son changing teams uh what has the initial experience looked like from your perspective well you know what matthew's happy um you know they're starting to play better now as a team they went through a lot of injuries um at the beginning of the year and they just weren't clicking great there was always something going on players missing they had to play short because of the salary cap but i think they try

they've been traveling a lot so i think think things are settling down now. I mean, obviously they're not happy where they are. But, you know, it's nice getting down to Florida for a few days here and there with the weather and stuff. But, no, he's enjoying himself. And, you know, it's been a good transition. He loved Calgary but, you know, wanted a change of pace. And it is what it is. And the Atlantic Division, the East in general, is really hard this year, especially the Atlantic.

So, you know, some great teams, Boston, Toronto, and Tampa, are really standing out this year. So it's going to be a grind until the end. We know that, you know, Calgary was in a tough situation, like most free agents at that age who are really good. When we talk about Matthew being one year away from unrestricted free agency, and I know, joking aside, we talked about him possibly going to St. Louis,

but can I ask you, did the conversations between you and Matthew and the possibility of going home were they were they are serious considerations not the pros and cons of it did you guys go through that process you know what matthew's pretty intelligent kid you know he he's got his head on his shoulders he knows what he's doing i felt with st louis and matthew was a little bit a tough situation for me, so I stayed out of it. I wanted Matthew to make his own decision.

But he talked to Doug right when he became a free agent, where they were allowed under the CBA. And he had some good conversations with Doug. I don't know how far it went, obviously. When Florida came into play, I think right then he decided that's the place he wanted to go. It's always somebody's dream to play i think right then he decided that's the place he wanted to go um it's always somebody's you know dream to play in their hometown but um this situation he felt was better fit for him you know we were talking before you came on and there's three players in the nhl that are leading their teams in points and pims uh two of them are your sons which is a pretty cool stat would you say that the pms part comes naturally to them,

or did you encourage them to play a little bit more aggressively? I'm asking because I have a six-year-old. Hopefully a six-year-old's not going out there doing some of the stuff. No, he's not nearly tough enough yet, Keith. I'm working on him. Well, I would say that. You know what, the boys, I like the fact that the boys play the game hard and, you know, they'll do things to help help their team win

and, you know, play in the tough areas. And that's what it's all about. It's not all about, you know, fighting or doing this. It's about getting your nose dirty and sending the right message to your team. And if you have to take a penalty, that's the way it goes. But, you know, hopefully they're not in there too much. I think Matthew is, you know, needs to make sure he's on the ice more. The wins are so critical.

And I think Brady, you know, Brady will fight. I mean, that's what I love the fact about him. Like, he's not willing to back down. He's not going to back down to anybody. And they play the game hard, and I respect that. Your experience, not only playing, but also being a dad minor hockey watching Brady and Matthew come up through the ranks

and just the type of players that they are today we don't see that many Keith anymore so in your opinion is it because we're not asking players to play that way anymore or we're just not finding players willing to do it?

Well, that's a great question. I mean, I think nowadays everybody wants to be a skilled player. I mean, when they're a kid, which is great. That's what you want to teach at a young age. You want to make sure these guys have, you know, the proper ingredients to play, to be successful in skill work and skating and stuff like that, you know, and it's some of that grind that you have in there to compete.

I mean, it's got to be within you. You got to be wanting to be able to play in an uncomfortable situation. And kids nowadays are treated different, too. You got to remember that. It's not, you know, what the hitting has kind of gone away in the hockey, which is great. You don't want to see these kids getting hurt. But then again, some of these kids are so focused on skill, they put themselves in some difficult situations,

and they get clobbered out there. So it's a fine line, I guess. But I like the fact that, you know, when things aren't going well for you individually as skill-wise with the puck, there's another ingredient that you can bring to help your team. And I think that's why I love the fact that they're willing to play a physical game and play it in your face and, you know, agitate a little bit, I guess. But I think it's the compete level

that's most important for me and anybody you know every time i told my kids you know i don't care if they score goals and do this or do that it's willing to compete and be a good teammate and they've done a good job of that you know that i would say has been a fair criticism of the toronto maple leafs the team we talk about every every day, is having the guys in the big moments and that willingness. And they look forward on the free agent market every year. They brought in Nick Foligno for a first overall pick. This year in looking for guys, a name that has come up once in a while is Ryan O'Reilly.

Now, you guys are only four points out of a playoff spot and obviously not in a selling position. But I am curious about O'Reilly and his season so far. This guy who's, I think he won a Selkie trophy. He not in a selling position but i am curious about o'reilly and his season so far this guy who's i think he won a selkie trophy he's always a contender he's a dash 28 right now which is very unlike him throughout his career what has o'reilly's season looked like well as far as i'm concerned and obviously whatever happens to him is above my pay grade but right the fact that he's the guy that won the consummate for the Stanley Cup champion, Sam Lewis Blues, so in our minds, he's a hero here.

He's a great player. He's such a professional. He's such a great guy. One of the hardest working guys. That plus minus that is really unfair, really, because he plays against, I mean, just one of those years where just everything seems to have gone wrong. But, you know, he's a competitor.

He's a worker. He's loved by his teammates, and he wants to get better. And it's just one of those stats. And whatever happens with him happens. I mean, he's done so much in such a little time here in St. Louis. Not only with the cons might that went in a championship, it's, it's how, you know, these younger players look up to him and see his work ethic and see what he

does to get better each and every day. And unfortunately he's hurt right now, which is bad timing, but you know, we strung a couple of wins together, but once he gets back, you know, we can make another run. I mean, we're behind the eight ball a little bit, but he's a big reason why we've had so much success over the last bunch of years and been so competitive. It's because of him and his leadership. We're joined by Keith Kachuk, former NHLer,

former St. Louis Blue, current member in the recruitment department. Keith, when it comes to expectations now, and you were a member of the St. Louis Blues chasing a Stanley Cup, what did the Cup mean moving forward for the community, minor hockey, and ultimately maybe even the pressure that Doug Armstrong still feels to compete yet again? Did the Cup change things in so many different ways in St. Louis?

Well, it changed things because this fan base and this organization has been waiting for a long long time and i think it's really helped out you can date back to when brett ho came here the significance he had on minor hockey and it's no different with during that that staley cup run where you know we came out of nowhere and just got on a run and on a heater. We were unstoppable. And going into Boston game seven and winning. I mean, this is a sports town. You've been here.

It's a Cardinals town, a baseball town. They love their hockey. It would have meant so much for the city. And Doug Armstrong, since he's been here, his record is incredible. Wins, losses. We're in the playoffs pretty much every year, but one maybe. So the expectation is to win every year. We have great ownership. We're always

at the cap. And Doug doesn't give a shit. He'll trade anybody. He'll make deals. That's the one thing I love about Doug. He'll do whatever it takes to make his team better. And it's all about winning and nothing else. Okay, I'm going to take you out of your hockey mode and go back to a dad mode.

Okay. And this is just, this is just me looking from afar. And this new generation of chewing mouth guards. Have you ever gone up to Matthew and just said, hold on for a second. I was the guy that like, like created a, a choke-free environment when you were like two years old in our house. And now I'm watching you chew this thing on breakaways and back checks,

and I'm like, I can't think of a bigger choking hazard in my life than playing in the National Hockey League going 25, 30 kilometers an hour and this thing dangling from your lips. Have you ever had a conversation with him on this? No, it's not even worth it. You know what? They're going to learn the hard way. That's the only way to learn.

I'm not going to tell them. I'm not going to take their phone away. They live on their own. They make way more money than I do. I don't know what else to do. I know I spent, and my wife and I spent a lot of money at the dentist and stuff, and you know what else to do. I know I spent, in my life, and I spent a lot of money at the dentist and stuff, and you know what?

Shame on them. It's their fault. It's not their fault anymore. I got my teeth knocked out, and I had a mouthpiece in from a slap shot from T.J. Oshie, and I put a hole right through my mouthguard, and I lost five teeth. I couldn't imagine not having a mouthguard.

It's just that. You know what? Oh, well. It's up to them. They're going to learn the hard way. There mouth guard. It's just that. You know what? Oh, well. It's up to them. They're going to learn the hard way. There you go. Your work is done. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Like a blackjack dealer when their shift's over. I'm off the clock. I'm off the clock, baby. Hey, listen. It's been a blast, Keith. Thanks for doing this for us. All right.

Thanks for having me, guys. Take care of yourselves. Appreciate it. Keith Kachuk, Proud Papa. You're concerned about the choking hazard? That's a concern of yours? I don't get it. I don't get it.

No, no, no. We're in the era where we used to almost give penalties out for a chin strap. Yeah. Okay? Remember the measurements? Oh, we can't. You know, a helmet comes off. You need to go straight to the bench.

You cannot make another line rush without a helmet. But I'm going to let you chew this thing around like it's a piece, like you've got 20 pieces of bazooka bubble gum in your mouth. No problem at all. The big thing, too, is it's not just the teeth. They're actually for concussion prevention, right? That's more what they're for. Right, to stop the head rattling together when you get smacked well so that you can make a real case for the

health importance of them i don't think it was a serious question but let's wait for the the first trainer that needs to perform the heimlich heimlich and then he's done it his whole career and then then we're gonna have a discussion yeah now things get serious yeah um it's just let me just know it's just it's just it's something that he just does like it's i bet it would feel so weird to play hockey to him without having i used to do it you did it like not as much as him like no no no like mcdavid's got it dangling out of his mouth no joke cane. They all do it. And it's.

I was going up to the face off playing with it or whatever. It's a cool thing to do now. All the cool kids. I just need to know. We can continue this conversation. But we are three for three. Our last three guests of blatant cursing on our show. What is going on? I'm glad everyone is comfortable to talk to us.

Exactly. Like it's a bar room. We're putting people in the comfort zone And we're not cussing It's not us What are we supposed to do? I feel like I'm not a cool kid now I feel like I gotta chew a mouth guard By coming up with a four letter

Word It's even sports that employs too What am I supposed to do here i'm sorry brandeo he's kind of been thrown at the wolves here so he mentioned something in that interview that i think because you guys were talking about how asking about why his two kids sort of play the way they do and he was mentioning that the way hockey has changed from the grassroots level there will be a time here fellas in the not too distant distant future where there will be barely any physicality and any fighting i think so you always think it's

gonna be there yeah because i don't think you can play hockey any other way the way like there'll be some listen there's gonna be some disagreements no matter what but i think it's gonna go even lower than it is now like you watch you watch junior hockey these days. I watched junior hockey when I was a kid. Games cost – Junior hockey was a – They took four and a half hours. There was just all fights or whatever. And you go to a game now and there's barely a hit.

There's barely any fighting. It's just – it's changed so much the grassroots level. And it's got to make its way up to the highest level. I am leaning more towards JB than you, Sammy, on this. That's fair. And I'm glad to hear that. And I do believe that it may be a little cyclical. For sure. It will eventually turn.

And I do believe that there will be a new generation that sees opportunity of creating um an image or a style of play that is that some teams are starving for begging there is an opening right if you're a guy who plays with 10 animosity right and i think that a lot of teams saw oh the game is getting you know not maybe gentler or you can be a speedy skilled team you don't have to worry about that part and then like a bunch of big teams went and won and continued to pound it down their throats and it's like oh and we're missing that and the beauty of this generation is that you can fake it till you make it. With that, for sure. You don't have to be naturally angry. To being, I don't want to insult anybody here playing the game today,

but it's easier to bluff today than it was 20 years ago. As long as you fight a few times, at least you're bluffing. You might have the cards. If you never fight, you don't have the cards. But there is such a demand for it right now. And it kind of brought me back to that question that I asked Keith was that the coaches aren't asking you to go out and do this or they're just not willing to do it anymore. But there's a lot of cash sitting at the table. And if you just upped your intensity a little bit if you finished a few

more checks if you looked a little meaner matthew and matthew and brady's you know goal output is not that much higher than the next superstars but because they're nasty they make nine million dollars a year whatever they make and and no one in i know he fights, but in a couple more years, no one's going to even go near Brady Kachuk. No. It's like he's earned, the way that the game is going and the way that he plays feels like two completely different directions. He's on my Braden Point list of guys I would pick uncomfortably early for you. He's a stud.

Which one would you pick? If Bunting was two inches taller and had another 15, 20 pounds on him, that takes him to another level. He's squeezing whatever he can out of 5'11 and 170 pounds. It's mindset to me. And is he someone who actually, if he was bigger, would he... I think he'd have more confidence.

More confidence and just stay in the face and actually fight. Again, I know there's people listening going like, Neanderthals, you don't have to fight to win. You don't. But having the element of a willingness to take it to your opponent,

look them in the eye, stay on top of them and make them uncomfortable. And part of that is showing a willingness to take it to your opponent look them in the eye stay on top of them and make them uncomfortable and part of that is showing a willingness to stand in there when you do have to 100 and that's you know there are teams that are looking for it they recognize they need it and it's tough to find teams would pay you don't even want to know what they pay for tom wilson if the if tom wilson the capitals dropped out and they're like ah we're gonna trade wilson if he was ufa he was ufa this year even coming off major reconstruction yeah on his knee would probably without blinking look at uh eight eight plus and if he were a center minute to be even more you know if you could if you can find that in a guy who's down the gut

which is why when austin matthewsed Rasmus Dahlien in the throat and got a two-game suspension, the only thing you heard from people was, Yay! If you could only play Rasmus Dahlien every game. Right. Who was the Minnesota Wild that just signed? Nick Boldy. Nick Boldy or Matt Boldy?

Matt. Matt. Lovely player that can beat you in many different ways. Oh, yeah, you're a fan. Oh, yeah. And it cost them 49 million bucks, seven times seven. Gosh. But he's got the extra value is that he can come in with some edge,

and he's a big boy. Yeah. He's over six to 200. Right. There's money boys. Listen to me, minor hockey players, junior players,

just up your intensity a little bit, just a little bit. You want, we're going to go watch Bobbyahon play for a third game for the toronto maple leafs strictly on the the back of him being a big strong guy willing to go go get it you know the most impressive thing wasn't that he ran anyone over fight fought anyone he went and got the puck first and he was willing to take the hit in a couple of his shifts and you know that all goes to a willingness and a commitment that you can't find in everyone.

And by the way, I didn't have it. I know you did. I didn't have it. I grew up with an easy life. And I wish my parents had been crueler. I'm kidding, by the way. You needed to walk home from practice every once in a while. I feel

like I had a roller bag at one point, and that probably did it to me. The old dreaded roller bag. The classics. You know what the line is about that, that if your bag has wheels, you likely don't. That's a good line. I don't have wheels, and I don't have wheels, period.

And listen, you can't talk anybody into it though right like you you can't tell me that a few of your coaches had kind of nudged you oh it came up it came up and what was your first thought i can do this i'm gonna try or well you know it's not for me on the four check i would be more than willing to go in and finish my check. I've always finished my check. But, you know, the other element of it where you saw Jake Gensel talking to Brad Marchand in that highlight. I don't know if you saw it the other day. Yeah, I sent it to you guys. Yeah, but Marchand came up to him and basically was like, you touch him again and I'll kill

you or whatever he said. And did you see Gensel backpedal? He hit me first or something and like backpedaled and got the ref between them and whatever. Yeah. Not saying Gensel's whatever, but there's a willingness of the Bruins top players. Did you not ever play against a guy where you

felt if I hit him and he doesn't get up, I'm okay with that? That's a really wonderful question. I don't know. what are you getting at here all day long there are guys that you're like to hell with that guy oh yeah yeah yeah it's just like care to name names no okay no but i you know i really despise billy garren in new jersey a

couple of games i would have rather had players just go home and not be a part of the opposing team. But mine was more like. That's when you show up to beer league and you hope the best player is not there. I just knew that there were certain guys who had called my bluff enough times that they were going to chase me around a little bit. And I was going to have to deal with that. And that was the guy I wanted to go with. You had your stick. Well, that's what my coach would always say.

He said, you cross check him in the teeth and we'll kill it off for you yeah no i don't want to do that i don't cross check a guy in the teeth it's not my nature i honestly was like i'm not now he's really really mad it's not my nature okay i don't know what happened to this conversation i don't know we got a good break talking about guys not getting up it's wrong weather outside it's we're in mordor okay out there it's pure fog now it's what season is it anyways i don't know wasn't the sun out just 24 hours ago we got our two days of sun and now we're we're destined for a hundred straight more of all right now that you got the weather update from sandy mckee let's go to break and bring back mike mckenna

from daily face off and we'll get his thoughts on Matt Murray going back-to-back. Is this the start when Sheldon says, Take the reins. All right, let's write a number one here for the next little while. What do you think? I think so. Okay. This is the one.

All right, back after this, you're watching and listening to real kipper and born just waiting on mike mckenna daily face-off hockey analyst retired nhl hl ecl did i miss lee uh he only played in a couple i think didn't he just played he'll tell us always does Did I miss a lead? He only played in a couple, I think, didn't he? He just played. He'll tell us. Always does.

Do we have? He'll definitely know about Alex Lyon. Lyon. Lyon. Do we have confirmation if Alex Lyon is playing for the Florida Panthers tonight? No confirmation. Likely starter according to Justin Bourne's guesstimeter right but brofsky was played last night a 4-1 was he busy does that matter anymore lion uh is a 909 in the ahl

we got mike all right i already introduced you i'm not doing it again mike okay you do what you want, Kipper. It's fine, man. I'm good. It was really good. You missed it, but it was really good. It was better than David Ambers. Yeah.

For sure. You got your name right. Yeah, I got your name right. And what you do. Well, it's good. If you screwed up Mike McKenna, you'd really be in one yeah for sure okay name to pronounce love coming to you for the goalie situation not only here in toronto but around the league uh toronto florida tonight uh bovrovsky played last night 4-1 win in buffalo

we expect maybe alex lion to possibly play tonight if that's the case where did you see this after spending what 15 million dollars on on Spencer Knight and Bobrovsky because this thing has been pretty much a disaster well you know let's preface it by saying Alex Lyon even though he doesn't have a ton of NHL experience, is somebody who's performed really well in the Calder Cup playoffs in the American Hockey League before. He has a ton of experience there, and he does have NHL games on his resume. So, you know, are his numbers great there? Not particularly, but he can play.

He was my goalie partner my last year when I finished up in Phil in Lehigh Valley. And I think he's pretty good goaltender. And what you're facing though, is when you have Spencer Knight out, you're probably not going to run Bobrovsky two straight games. Lions had a pretty good season so far in Charlotte and kind of here we are, you know, but I think it's a pretty big test for Florida because really I don't think Bobrovsky has been great for them. I think Spencer Knight's been really up and down this year,

which is not surprising considering he's only 21 years old, going to turn 22. He's still learning the league. He's still learning how to play in it. You're right for a team of $15 million in goal. Maybe we shouldn't be too surprised that the Florida Panthers are currently well outside the playoff picture. Do you think those guys will sort it out this year,

but Braski and a night, you know, The Panthers are currently well outside the playoff picture. Do you think those guys will sort it out this year, Bobrovsky and Knight? You know, I keep waiting for Knight to really grab that crease. And I have thought that his peak this year has been better than Bobrovsky's because to me, Knight is very much a modern goaltender. He presents big. He tends to at least stay within his post a little bit better than bobrovsky does who can chase at times but there's still elements of night's game that you know to me kind of surprises me i i'm surprised that he continues to play with a pretty extreme depth

for such a big guy um i don't know if that's a product of his college upbringing and who he's had previously as a coach there or if that's just where he prefers to play um but boy i'd sure like to see night take a page out of Jake Ottinger's book, you know, a little bit deeper, stay a little bit vertical. I think they're similar goaltenders. But you look at the success that Ottinger's had, and, again, he's three years older than Knight, but I think that's exactly the type of goaltender he needs to be looking at

to really study up on and try to play similarly to. You know, any time a team struggles, especially after winning the president's trophy you're going to go through uh some decisions and the one that kind of i kind of scratched my head on a little bit mike is signing spencer knight a year removed he's still finishing off an entry level and next year he jumps to4.5 million when he had no arb rights. He really had nothing there, and they just handed him $4.5 million for the next three years.

And I'm wondering, did they miss out on losing a big carrot dangling on him this year? Well, it sure makes you wonder about it. And I know that the knock on Spencer Knight, and this is in a good way, I shouldn't say knock, but one of his things he's known for is just being a really mentally strong, prepared goaltender, well-rounded individual, not just as a goaltender.

But I saw that contract and I just went, whoa, whoa, went, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Like much the same thoughts as you here. Like, why are we just handing it to him right now? Like, this is supposed to be a value play down the road. And I understand the teams are much more willing to gamble with contracts nowadays. You know, it's not any different than some of the seven, eight year deals we've seen with players coming out of, you know, restricted free agency. But, you know, I hadn't seen anything from Knight to tell me that he was going to be a

guaranteed four and a half million dollar goaltender. I thought that he had the potential to do that. Absolutely. But I don't think the motivation factor it's going to affect them at all. I think just from the salary cap standpoint, I mean, like that's a lot of money to tie up in a big gamble when you still don't know whether you're going to be able to get rid of Sergei Bobrovsky or not you know I don't think there's a expectation to finish out that contract if at all possible in Florida so I was really surprised when their GM Bill Zito gave that deal out but I tell you what I was really happy for the goalie union because

that four and a half million dollars sure looks good around the league when you're looking at comparables and that's good for everybody that puts the gear on i just don't think it's good business for some of these teams sure yeah it makes a lot of sense you know we i think you probably spend a lot of time looking at goaltenders versus their contracts and how they're outperforming or underperforming obviously jack campbell has come up this season quite a bit he was a name i wanted to ask you about only because you had for quite a while mentioned that he had outdated gear and was playing and sort of you know he hadn't used sort of the newest equipment and he has since made that change um have you noticed anything different in

his play since then or what would be different going from old gear to new gear for a goalie yeah he's won three straight games and he's allowed two goals or less in five of the six that he started since he updated his gear around the holiday break. Love it. So, um, and here's the thing. I, I, it's easy for me to look towards an article I wrote a while ago that, you know, took off a little bit and say, Hey, I told you so. And I don't think that I single-handedly guilted Jack Campbell into modernizing his equipment. I know that this was a process that had been undertaken for some time. The encouragement factor,

at least to try to get him to update his gear because his pads were just, they were so soft and flexible. And I mean, he's probably given up a half dozen goals a year through his five-hole just because his gear was crappy. And it wasn't just that he had a puck go through his glove in Dallas, you know, early in the season. So he made the switch to a company, a different company, the same one that Carter Hart wears, and they trained together in the summertime. And his new gear is a little

bit boxier, a little bit stiffer, a little bit more modern. And, and, you know, sometimes it's just a confidence thing. Who knows if the gears actually make an extra saves, but it's not just gear. Like I've seen Campbell to me, be more patient on his edges. I think he's been better about finding pucks through traffic. Those were two troublesome areas. The one thing I see that he still doesn't do well, he still doesn't rotate very efficiently. His Bob, his lower body doesn't rotate in the same way as his upper body. He kind of fights against himself.

And as times has a, at times there's a hard time getting across with the entire package. But I think some of the other things, like I I say like patience is so important for a goaltender on their edges Campbell was dropping early he was pushing the envelope at the beginning of the season I've seen that be dialed back in these last couple games he just looks more relaxed more patient and really more confident in his movements in his safe selections we've heard stories of like Brendan Shanahan wearing the same shoulder pads since like minor Adam.

Are goalies the same way? Do you know of goalies that just go, no, no, no, this stuff works for me. I don't care how old it is. It used to absolutely be like that. Brendan Shanahan also used the Easton Classic aluminum shaft that he had to buy out the remaining stock from Easton years ago because they didn't make that log anymore. It was the heaviest stick.

It was like 110 flex, and he just couldn't quit with them. So that was pretty cool. I mean, Mike Badano wore 652 tacks clear until the end of his career almost, I think. Love you, guys. Listen to you. Oh, I could go on and on and on. I mean,

West walls had to retire because they couldn't get the right socks for him anymore. Guys like we have all kinds of weird things out there, but that's legit. When we're talking, is it true? Yeah. Yeah.

When we're talking about Marty Brodeur, there's a guy who wore the same arm and chest protector for the better part of like 20 years, man. And it took him actually getting injured before he realized I've got to update. And he ended up getting one of Pekka Rene's old pro return arm and chest. And he started to kind of update his gear in his last years. You know, I think until recently you would see some goalies use gear for two, three, four seasons with, it was like an upper body gear,

right? An arm and chest protector, maybe that would be more common than it would be gloves, blockers, pads, players would still goalies, especially would get new gear. It's just how they like it. Do they like it stiff? Do they like it flexible? And largely we've really gone away from the super flexible gear. We've gone to more stiff gear that kicks rebounds out hard, that gets the puck away from us as quickly as we can. We're going to see Matt Murray play again tonight. Many thought, including me, they'd probably go back to Samsonov. I'm not sure if you watched Saturday night, but maybe a couple of goals that a few people questioned.

But is this a start that we can look on and say, now they're going to lean towards one guy more than the other. Someone even suggested to me, Mike, that he's played more games on the road than at home and they want to give him more home games now. Is that even a thing?

It can be a thing if it starts to be really burdensome after a while. In some ways, it is tougher to play continually on the road. You just want to start one at home because you can just drive up in your car. You just feel more comfortable sometimes. It's tough to be a road warrior. I think it's a strength for the Maple Leafs to have two goaltenders

that are obviously capable and they've played good hockey this year in moments. I didn't catch all of Saturday night's game because I was at a squirt hockey tournament in the Wisconsin bells. And I got to tell you, that place is unbelievable by the way, our squirts, see one team got beat by a team from Chicago that had a ringer on it, that this kid didn't have any matching gear. He didn't even have his name on the back of his Jersey when every other kid did. So the fix was in. But in any case, you know, I've seen good and bad from Murray.

I still think that – I don't think there's been a whole lot of evolution to his game throughout this season. I think that at times he's really pushed the urgency envelope in a good way. But I still worry about the scouting report, right? Like everybody knows, get the puck airborne. Beat him side to side. He's going to get low and locked. Like that hasn't changed at all. And I think that he's kind of gotten caught up with that,

whereas I think with Samsonov, he's a little bit more dynamic. But he's also more prone to allowing goals that befuddle you at times, you know, and especially if he starts to get deep in his crease. That's the one confidence tell for me with Samsonov. So I'd also like to know how to properly pronounce his name. Cause he's gone back and forth. No one can call you on anything. Just pick, pick a direction. You know what, in general here though, guys,

like I would like to see the Leafs get to a point where one of these two starts to play two out of three games. That's what I would like to see. I think that'd be a good mix, especially heading towards the Stanley Cup playoffs. When frankly, you have two guys, you don't know if they're going to be healthy or not. So they both do need to be playing, but man, you'd really like to ramp one of them off, ramp one of them up to get prepared for that high intensity playoff series. That's upcoming in a couple months. Hey, I got a question for you here that's probably a little loaded because I'm thinking about Morgan Riley,

but when you're on the ice as a forward, I'm always aware of who my D-men are, you know, because they play different ways depending on who they are. When you're a goaltender, how aware do you have to be of the D-pair that your team has on the ice? Like, okay, I know I've got this guy who's a

risk taker um maybe i'm more likely to see chances coming than i normally would is that a thing or you just kind of locked into the offense the other team's offense well i can tell you about the 2011 training camp that i spent with the ottawa senators and they had a guy named carlson on that team and i was very very aware of the game that I played in St. John's for Hockeyville when EK65 was on the ice because I knew we might be scoring, but I also knew it might be coming the other direction real fast. They're going five forwards, one D, eh? Yeah. I mean, this was early in his career, too, man, where he was just, you know, wheeling, right? And you do have to be aware because you tend to face different types of shots.

And this isn't – you know what your strengths are for your defenseman, right? Like Eric Carlson, world-class talent. You know he's a great puck rusher, but you do know you may face odd man rushes coming the other direction. So that's how you kind of have to gauge things is, is knowing the threat, you know, knowing who on your team as a defenseman is more willing to push a player further up the wall that might expose something a little bit deeper or especially on the penalty kill, which of your players likes to block shots and how they like to block shots. You know, do they take the inside lane away? Do they like to get right in front? So, yeah, absolutely. I think the best goalies out there are very aware of their defensemen

and their tendencies, more so whether they go, oh, this guy sucks. I think it's more so they think, I've got to be ready for this to happen because I know it's something I've seen before. What has surprised you more out of Seattle that they're 26-13-4 and knocking on the door of being one of the top teams in the Western Conference halfway through or that it's come off the back of Martin Jones? I think it's probably that the team is that good.

And here's why. Martin Jones, to me, was smart to go to Philadelphia last year. And the reason being is that he reunited with Kim Dillabaugh, the goalie coach of the Philadelphia Flyers. And they'd worked together previously for the Los Angeles Kings organization. When Dillabaugh was the development goalie coach and Jones was coming up through the ranks. And that's when I thought he played to some of his best hockey.

So I think he went there, retooled his game a little bit and he's just, he's been a winning machine for the Kraken. Now, I mean, I just wrote a piece about Vezina power rankings for this year and his 895 save percentage isn't going to put him in the mix for Vezina anytime soon, but the guy just keeps winning. Like he's making big saves when he needs to. I just didn't see the Kraken being able to rattle off these games. They've come together in a way that's really surprised me. You've got Vince Dunn playing like an all-star on the blue line. Jared McCann's playing the best hockey I've ever seen from him. I mean, Burakovsky,

what a signing, right? It's everything you would have expected or hoped from him. So it really does surprise me. And it's, it's great to see Jones being a big part of that, but you do have to wonder, right? What's the ceiling again, like the traditional numbers, they don't look great. The advanced numbers, they're okay, but he's winning's winning man and i'll tell you what i'll take a winning goalie over with okay stats then i will a losing goalie with incredible numbers at this stage you just got to find ways to win yeah for sure and which is why i want to ask you all mark is it sustainable for him is he really can i ask him one more question on Seattle? Just one more before we go to that one. I'm really loving your stuff, by the way, Mike.

Thank you. As the back half goes, and Seattle now really feels like it's their playoff spot to lose, do they say, hey, we've come this far with Martin Jones, but let's get group hour going. Or do you just keep rolling with it? Because I don't trust Martin Jones.

Well, do you touch trust? Philip group hour more? I have to, I'm paying them over six, almost $6 million. But for a team like Seattle, here's the argument I take.

They're ahead of the curve. They're ahead of the curve. They're ahead of the curve right now. You've got to get Grubauer to at least play some games in case. And I think it's a big picture thing. It's kind of like saying, are they going to add at the deadline? Are they going to add a goalie? I don't think they're going to add a goalie. Are they going to add players to make that team better

and make a playoff or a Stanley Cup run? I'm not sure of that either. I like what's going on there. I do think that you'd want to see more of the two to one mix. Now here's the thing. Seattle right now is in a, they're in a dog fight out there in the Pacific, which I don't think we really expected, right? Like they're two points off Vegas. Los Angeles is right there.

And guys, Evander Kane's coming back for the Edmonton Oilers tonight. Okay. That team is dangerous. I don't care what anybody thinks. And I don't think Calgary and Colorado are far off either. So if Seattle gets towards a deadline and they're still in the place they are, if they're rising up through the standings, I really don't think goalie's going to be what they add at because I don't think Ron Francis looks at that realistically thinking we're going to win the cup this year.

But you know what? If it gets to the offseason and they start to look objectively, if they could move Grubauer's deal, I think I would definitely take a look at it. But I think they're probably going to stamp out with Jones. All right. And then my last one there was just on Allmark. And is it sustainable?

Is he really a Vezina-type goaltender? A 936 save percentage is not sustainable. No, okay. It will drop. But from what I've seen from Allmark this year, the first thing I see is that there's been a decent Delta between him and Jeremy Swayman, his goalie partner. That, that means a lot to me. He's outperformed his goalie partner.

Now Swayman's gotten better as the season's gone on that Delta has, has shrunk, but there's elements to Omar's game that I really like. And he's not trying to do too much anymore. He played for the Buffalo Sabres for better part of four or five seasons where it was all on his shoulders and he was trying so hard. And I think even last year, there was a bit of that with the Bruins. He's more restrained. He's got great hands for a Swedish goaltender, which is rare. And it turns out that's because he didn't have a whole lot of coaching growing up, coming up through Sweden. He was always one of the mid-tier goalies, not the greatest goalie.

So he kind of had to figure things out for himself. I like his fundamentals. I like his hands. I don't think it's sustainable. I think by the end of the year, is he going to be a Vezina finalist? I think he's going to be a finalist. But to me, it all depends on whether the Islanders or the Predators make the playoffs. Because right now, Sorokin and Saros, they should be in the mix. Connor Hellebuck should be in the mix.

Even Jake Ottinger. It's going to be a while before we really figure out who's going to take that trophy home. All right, buddy. We've exhausted you. Thank you for your great work today. You never exhaust me. This is fun.

It's goalies. It's goalies. Always appreciate your time, Mike. Thanks for doing this, pal. Thanks for having me, guys. Talk to you later. I can almost make up a name for goalie, and I bet you he'd have good facts on him.

I know. Flerb McNeibles. I could throw anything. Ah, McNeibles. Yeah, 6-1 last year. Save percentage. Enjoys fishing in the offseason. Know him well. He's dialed. He's absolutely dialed. McKenna the offseason, know him well. He's dialed.

He's absolutely dialed. McKenna's the best, first of all. Second of all, he was harping on the Jack Campbell thing last year with the equipment. He was saying he's got to get new gear. So he went to – he didn't say the name of the company, but I will because I love the gear. It's Brian's, which is a good Canadian company.

I think it's made down in the Windsor they have like they do all the cool custom ones you know like the like the when the coyotes have a cool one or like the kraken they always have these really cool so i've always liked them a lot anyways just wanted to say that and that's you know brian's gears that's the brand he got yeah but i did disagree with him on uh on seattle's goaltending i i think this back half they they gonna have to find a way to get grubauer back and being the guy you know i do not not martin jones and jones has done a great job up until now but i don't think that's sustainable well that's that's the conversation because you don't care who does it you know you have an 80 million dollar salary cap and who cares who stops the puck as long as one of them stops the puck but you're right do you believe that martin jones is suddenly a different goaltender

than he's been probably not no i don't and so you kind of want to see the guy who you expect to be better have a run and find it and that's what's happening in toronto that's a fun conversation for ron francis to have with the head coach of the team yeah hey the guy's playing worse dave the guy stinks can you get him a few looks yeah versus the guy that's carrying us through all these games and you know again be careful because uh when martin jones has an 895 and Grubauer has an 888. So. Right. It's not like he's stealing games for you.

Like he's not 936. I did want to know yesterday. We were like the Seattle team. They have Friedman noted in his 32 thoughts piece. They're shooting percentage, like the highest in recorded history as a team. So you can expect them to score a little bit less in future months, but yes, the goaltending not going to get any worse.

Like they're at least eight 95, eight 98 guys are better. So yeah, I don't know. I'm with you though. So this is it. When you take it to Toronto is if Murray and Samson, I've are kind of playing about the same quality.

You want to see it be the guy you're paying $5 million and you have under contract for another year, so he's going to get the opportunities first. Which is that why he's in tonight? Maybe. Was just one more on Seattle, their leading goal scorer. What's your thing on Seattle? What do you like Seattle?

What's up with Seattle? Was it not a former Toronto Maple Leaf? Oh, McCann, who is shooting 28% this year. He's scoring a lot, huh? Kept Kerfoot over McCann. Oh, I hadn't heard that. Did they do that? Was it that easy?

Was it that? It was Hall, too. They protected Hall and Kerfoot and traded McCann. I forget that. That was a bit of a whoopsie, I think. Might want that one back. McCann's also making five. Is he not?

Yeah, he is. Right. Do you remember when they did the expansion draft? And there was like, they had filmed the... Yeah, the Kevin Weeks fish. The Kevin Weeks whipping the squid or whipping the fish out there. And it said Alex Kerfoot. Everybody got all excited.

And then they went to the actual thing, and it ended up being. Yeah, they leaked out the wrong fish. Yeah, the wrong fish. Exciting moments. Bet on the wrong fish. Mike did mention Evander Kane. What's your deal with Seattle? Why are you so interested in Seattle?

I'm just fascinated that, like, I thought they were horrible this year to start. I thought that Hacksaw couldn't get the job done. I was wrong on that one. Yeah, I'm with you. There was a year or two of his job on the line. We just watched them do something that no NHL team in history has done, and that's win seven consecutive road games. All right, all right. They've got a Vegas thing going right now, and that is more misfit toys are having great success.

I see it. The league stacked the cards in their favor again, and they're balanced. I hate that. I hate the league stacked the cards in their favor. Well, they're balanced, and look at their picks. This year, they have their first. They have three have three seconds they have two fourths two sixths wow like they're just stacked with these picks i mean they have the second from the least trade with giordano they're if they are in at the deadline they are a big time player for somebody

has the league uh made any announcements announcements on who the fans have been? Thursday. So they don't do updates to see who's leading or anything like that in the vote getting. And I want to bring this up. I haven't seen one thing. Because Shane Wright is eligible to be voted for. Oh, no. What are you doing here?

No, I'm just telling you that he could be the first guy to get called up from junior a hockey to play in an nhl all-star do you know i got sent down to play in the echl all-star game i was in the american league how did you get into that game i was in the american league don't you have to be in the league to be in a position to be apparently not i was sent down to score in the all-star game uh i had three assists is that good is that because the owner put you in i have no idea what happened i was in the don't you ask questions during your career none i just went where i was told they sent me i was in line at tim hortons and the line went back and forth like an airport lineup and capuano was the

head coach Jack Capuano and he was going the other way and he saw me and like forgot that I existed he's like oh Bonnie he's like uh you're uh you're leaving tomorrow at 4 a.m you go to the all-star game I was like the what the ECHL all-star game and then he came then we kept going and I did so I faced him three more times and I didn't say a word I just if Cappy doesn't want a chocolate donut, you never played that game. That's so true. I flew across the country. I was in Connecticut.

The All-Star game was the next day in Stockton, California. I was the first person in the skills contest going the length of the rink and doing the pylons. Anyway. Incredible. I think, I don't even know if that's even possible, if he's eligible or ineligible. I just know that Shane Wright was one of the guys,

his name was at the time. One of the write-in vote options? Yeah, or on the card or whatever's on the fan ballot. Can you find a fan ballot on i i haven't seen one thing about a kipper i like i'm on twitter all day long it's almost like the nhl doesn't want the john scott thing to happen if there's a a potential john scott coming we know nothing the league doesn't want us to feel the momentum at the end of the day they can still pick whoever the hell they want we'd never know hashtag push for pontus so hey got to ask you a question because we were talking about the goalies,

and it's two straight starts for Murray now. And I think you could argue that the Jets at home on Thursday is an even bigger game than this. I know that's a division rival, but you think about the rivalry between the Jets and the Leafs, and that's been a real thing. If Murray wins tonight and he plays well, you're going to go to samson off in that game

or are you gonna go murray like is there a chance for him to get three in a row here i don't i don't think so okay and because i i just think it's an important game for the least against the jets i think two out of three is a big deal yeah so do i but not three out of four okay i don't know what do you think was you know, Samsonov chose Toronto and presumably had other options, and he didn't get paid a ton of money to do it. Presumably, they told him, we'll give you at least 30 starts if you're healthy. I got to think there was a verbal agreement that you're not here to sit and wait. Yeah.

Yeah, that's part of the deal when you're trying to get people signed. And obviously none of that is binding. They can do whatever they want if he's not playing well. But he's not played poorly on the whole. So, yes, I expect him he would get the next game. But regardless, to Sammy's point, if it's Samson off thursday against winnipeg or or not uh these are these are good challenges coming off of a boston brewing game

this week it is interesting that mike notes that like samson off is a more dynamic athletic type guy and murray is you know they're different stylistically. Shot blocker. Yeah. Murray. Right. And does one of them make you feel any more comfortable in the playoffs against the Tampa Bay Lightning? I guess Murray's the answer. I just don't think that Leaf fans have seen longer stretches long enough

to fall into a comfort zone. With anyone. And we're over half the season now. That has to change. And it's not just the season now. Yeah. That has to change. And it's not just the fan base. It's the players. Yeah. The players have to start really feeling like this guy's our guy.

But I don't know. Are they going to go against the percentages or the odds of having a one, a true number one start the playoffs? And we will see a one one a if murray plays great tonight i'd love to see him go again thursday do you think there's a world where samsonov could play well enough to earn a contract before the season ends no i think it's a brand spanking new different goalie what if he's a 920 this year and goes you're gonna walk me to ufa is a 920 k by yeah well exactly k by they can't afford that okay but what does k by

mean it means he goes to play for another hockey team what are they gonna pay him no idea i don't know well he's not like he's he's leaving four times four for a 920 25 year old who's a first rounder uh did you play in the playoffs i did not okay then i'm not paying you four i'm not you don't think someone will give them that kind of number three and a half maybe on a two-year deal that low eh i i i need i need to go now into a four or a five. You need to be the starter. I'm signing you so you could be my starter at that money. It's true that you basically as a backup make two and as a starter make five. And otherwise, we're not doing the inverse of that.

But you can't get caught by paying a very, very, in your opinion, a very, very good backup goalie for $4.5 million. Generally, if you pay someone $4 million, you're hoping that you have a starter that you're getting cheap, a value starter like Matt Murray at $4.675 million. Florida signed. Why did they sign Spencer Knight at $4.5 million? Because they envisioned a world where Bobrovsky's gone by a year and a half.

How do they make that happen? I don't know. They buy him out. They buy him out. That's what you do. Yeah. That makes sense. How about...

I was going to turn the page. Turn the page, baby. Turn it. We done on Vancouver? Anything else to say after yesterday's follow yeah i don't i don't i don't see much more other than just a another head scratcher okay edmonton uh vander kane returns tonight back from his hand uh surgery wrist surgery he says he is not a hundred percent in terms of shooting it, but it's is what it's going to be.

And he says, no excuses. He's back Yamamoto on long-term IR, which I, if I'm telling you, I can't shoot the way I wanted to shoot. You just made an excuse. That is a somewhat of a reason why I may not score as much as you'd like.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll do a hundred meter dash. My hamstring hurts, but no excuses. Wait a second but he's also got other elements in his game that will lift the edmonton oil there's no questions about that was it his right hand i'm asking because can he no longer fight would that be would you be someone is he less threatening now? I had no problem keeping my glove on if I had a hurt hand and still slugging at you.

Who was it that just decked someone over the net? Sergeyev. Sergeyev drilled a Garland or something like that? Garland and got fined? Nothing. Oh, yeah, he got fined. A $5,000 fine. I loved it, though.

Because Garland was in there. Such a sucker. Over the net. No, like he can't. He got a $5,000 fine. Oh, yeah. I loved it, though. Because Garland was in there, you know. Such a sucker. Over the net. No, like, he can't even come back on him. Smallest guy on the team. Classic fake tough guy move by Sergeyev. Just classic. You know what Sammy said about him, though?

He was like, leave it to Tampa to find him. Garland was an innocent on there. He's trying to swing at Sergeyev. No, he was stuck behind the net. There was the net between them, Kipper. He punched him in the face. I did watch it. I watched it a hundred times. Go, go, Garland. Bring it up. Garland the net between them, Kipper. He punched him in the face. I did watch it. I watched it a hundred times.

Garland's phony baloney, too. Bring it up. I want to see it again. Garland was like a chihuahua on my pant leg. I would have slugged him, too. Oh, give me a break. That's the classic tough guy, fake tough guy move. Pick on the smallest guy on the ice.

Keep the gloves on. No, look. Watch Garland. Free? Going in, digging. Oh, yeah. He's going after him. He's going after him.

That about enough of you. Okay. You know what that is? That's a classic scram beat it. Yeah. I can't stand Sergey Chet. Garland. Garland did spear Vasilevsky or at least stuck him a little bit.

That's a big fish eating a little fish right there. Leave it to Tampa Bay to find a greasy defenseman like that. I'm disappointed in the league finding him. No, that's a bad punch. That's a sucker in the face. Stop it. Listen. Garland's hair makes it really WWE that he's able to toss it.

Sergachev takes shots at guys all the time. Remember when when he did to marner when he went in on the empty net and he came up with the shoulder into the bean tomorrow's had to go after him surga chev's the good kind of greasy i guess i mean it's not like he's been suspended or he's done i think he's been suspended has me oh probably uh speaking of tampa are they knocking on the Leafs' door of home-based advantage here? I honestly haven't looked at the standings. Well, take a look. I'm here right now. They're two points behind with two games in hand.

Oh, really? Yeah, higher leading in points percentage. That's why I don't look at the standings, boys. We do want the Leafs on the road to start. I would agree. Actually, no, I don't. You know what? Take one for sure.

I was about to be the fifth guy to swear today, but I almost said, who gives? But, like, who cares? At this point, I'll take a game seven, man. I'm just trying to kill time until the show's over. No, but, like, at this point, with all the scars that they have, you know, they lose home ice game seven, they lose in the road game seven.

It doesn't matter. Wherever it starts, it doesn't matter. So, hold on. Are we at the point? Let's find out how that happens between now and then and see how you feel well what do you mean by that like how the least i don't know maybe power play sucks maybe they can't keep the puck out of their own net maybe the goalies are horrible are you going to still have that nonchalant attitude yes because it's

just it doesn't the regular season really doesn't matter anymore as long as they keep up a decent winning percentage i mean buffalo's not going to catch him no one else is catching him tonight is like can dryden hunt take a spot or sorry dryden hunt can uh what's his name bobby mcmahon earn a full-time spot as a toronto maple leaf i am i am interested in the game tonight i'm interested to get a look at the cats bunting matthews kneelander yarn crock tavarez marner mcmahon kampf engvall i'm a like that i'm a bobby fan mcmahon kampf engvall is six two to six five 200 pounds plus big line that's a big line rangy vision six nine'9", Masai. And then Aston Reese, Kerfoot Hunt is the fourth line. Can I convince Bobby to throw a Sergeyev punch to Matthew Kachuk at the right time?

No. No? Maybe. Asking too much? I don't know. I don't really know what his nasty streak's like. I don't feel like I've got enough of a taste of it. But he's a big guy, skates hard, so maybe he's got it in him.

Maybe. Yeah, a quick year-by-year fight totals of Bobby McMahon. he's a big guy, skates hard, so maybe he's got it in him. Maybe. Yeah, I'm a quick year-by-year fight totals of Bobby McMahon. There's nothing there. Okay. Nothing? Did he get shortchanged and argue with someone at the cash register? Cashierist?

Come on. No fights? Nothing. Nothing. I can't find anything. He's not... I could be wrong. Sorry. In his last year... Can I get him to raise his voice? Colgate University He had 58 pims in 34 games Pims? Maybe a little nasty

Probably not What do we have for predictions tonight? Florida's goaltending Come on The Leafs can't back to back oh here's a stat are good for four tonight aren't they on this guy panthers are one of the worst teams in second game of back-to-backs this season one four and oh meanwhile the maple leafs are the best team when the opponent is on a second of a back-to-back at seven-0-0. So good night to bed in the Leafs.

6-2 final. Ooh, a lot of goals. Yes. That'd be nice. And while we're doing stats before the end of the show. What do you got for me? I got a convincing win for the Leafs. If you're heading to your local sportsbook,

I would consider the over. Yeah, that's a good one. Mitch Marner leads the league in points on game opening goals. Four goals and 11 assists. 15 opening goals for the Leafs. Does that matter, Kipper? Useful or useless?

Yeah, absolutely useful. Yeah? Yeah. He's your engine, boys. Sammy said when he told me that, he said it's an engine one. Tavares and Nylander, they need a bounce-back game. I don't think they were very good Saturday night.

Matthews, two goals tonight. Okay, our thanks to Keith Kachuk, Mike McKenna, and who am I missing? Jovanoski. Oh, Ed Jovanoski. Great two hours. We're back again tomorrow.

Enjoy your night, everybody, and give us a rating and your night, everybody, and give us a rating and review if you can and thumbs up on our YouTube channel. Have a great one.