Real Kyper & Bourne - Jim Montgomery's Return Home

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne welcome in St. Louis Blues rink side reporter and co-host of The Cam & Strick Podcast Andy Strickland (3:37) onto the show to discuss Drew Bannister's short tenure behind the bench, Jim Montgomery's return to the club, which players will be on the roster during Montgomery's time as their head coach, Doug Armstrong's history with firing coaches, and what will Armstrong look for nearing the trade deadline. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee dive into the New York Rangers potentially looking at making a big change to their roster, specifically with their core.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's take a national on the real kipper and born show we are live on sportsnet 650 in vancouver sportsnet 960 in calgary this, Real Kipper and Born is brought to you by Bet365, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Andy Strickland, co-host of Cam and Strick Podcast. We'll get the latest on the St. Louis Blues, who have fired Drew Bannister and replaced him with Jim Montgomery. Crazy.

That was fast. That was fast. And very strange. Not even strange. Just like I don't ever remember GM saying the things Armstrong has said, where he's basically had nothing to do with our coach and had everything to do with the guy who was available. I mean,

this is, I sent that, that graphic to you guys, but the Bruins firing coaches but i think their last three that they've fired claude julian um kirk cassidy and now uh montgomery it was under 10 days that all of them ended up with a new team and they all wanted jack adams while coaching the bruins yeah and they all had good records. Yeah. Cutthroat in Boston. Yeah.

And we've seen probably like, I don't know what's the number now in the last year and a half, two years, like almost 20 firings. Yeah. Like it's been off the charts. Turnover is worse than ever. But it's not hard to figure out. Like it's an easy, it's an easy way to shake up your lineup because guys and the salary cap have been you've been in jail with your salary cap can't get rid of contracts and these guys aren't on a salary cap so it's just money in yeah money out and there's no

repercussions it's not going to hold your team back. Unless you have a budget. It's just cash. It's not like it's costing you anything. I wonder, I'd like to see a stat, like will coach, the length of coaching 10 years go longer once

the salary cap is higher because teams will have more flexibility to actually make trades and change their roster. Right now, for the last couple of years, it's felt like looking at the buttons you can push and all there is is fire coach. Oh, no. It's going to open up floodgates for sure.

I wonder in the next CBA if you – they should have put the coaches on the salary cap too. Coaches don't want to hear that. Do you think – They'd still have jobs though. The coach has been getting fired forever. I don't think – You don't think it hear that do you think they'd still have jobs though the coach has been getting fired forever like i don't think i get coaches you don't think it's been more frequent no oh my god look at our stats look at the stats okay okay we got it we can provide this like you

think more coach been fired in the last year than ever ever i mean like i think it's a very up and down sort of thing like i think there's certain years where it's really bad and there's certain years where it's not as bad. I think it just goes up and down. Like, I wouldn't say. How many coaching firings? There's been a lot. I can't immediately pull this up, but I know I've done this before. You're great at this thing.

Oh, I used to be. We can definitely find out how many coaches per year. Yeah, someone let us know. But there's definitely been a uptick in firings of coaches during the post-pandemic, we'll say. Okay. So I guess you're right. I just, I don't know. It just feels like my whole life coaches have been getting fired for fat teams underperforming.

I don't know if it's okay. Part of it is there's a thousand teams now. No, that's true too. That helps. That helps. All right. Okay. Let's welcome him in.

Andy Strickland, who used to be on a station 590, the fan, because Sammy wrote that on me, but apparently you were fired. Was that true from them? That's a false. Hey, we all do. We all get fired. How are you, pal? You are strictly Cam and, right?

Cam and Strick podcast. And then where else are you working? Well, I do some stuff with another radio station here in town, the Big 550 KTRS. We'll give them a shout out. But I took my longtime radio show to strictly a podcast format. So it's called Hockey Sense. And I do it on just a podcast.

I figured, why not? I already have one podcast. It's easier that way Sense, and I do it on just a podcast. I figured, why not? I already have one podcast. It's easier that way. Control your own show. That's what I'm doing. You're way ahead of the curve. We haven't caught up to it yet. Thanks for joining us, Andy.

Tons of news for a team that, you know, isn't supposed to contend, basically, right? Yeah, they're not really supposed to contend, but they weren't expected to, I think, be as lethargic. That's the best way to describe this team heading into, at least where we're at right now. I mean, just so inconsistent, not a whole lot of identity. I think that's the word that's being tossed around. You don't know how this team is going to start games,

how they're going to start periods, what you're going to get out of certain guys. You know, the injuries have played a part, there's no doubt. I mean, Nick Letty is a guy that's not getting a whole lot of attention, but he's been out for several games. He's an NHL player. You can certainly use him. You combine that with Phillip Broberg, who's been out, now you're forced to elevate certain defensemen of the lineup you didn't have Robert Thomas for a number of games so um but at the same time a lot of players have really regressed since training camp in the

preseason you know they brought over Alexander Texier they thought they'd get more from him you know Matthew Joseph is a guy that has kind of been in and out. Same with Dylan Holloway, who they brought over with Broberg, obviously, with the offer sheet. So I think they expected a little more consistency, not to mention they haven't gotten a ton out of the Shuns and the Kairus and the Bucinaviches. You know, Thomas is starting to put up some points since he came back. I think he has three points in three games. But still, there's more to give. Power play's been inconsistent. All the statistical categories that you connect to coaching, it just hasn't been good enough.

Something's been missing. But with all that being said, the reason why we got that news yesterday was strictly because of Jim Montgomery's availability. If he's not available, I think Drew Bannister is still behind the bench coaching tonight at MSsg you know i think we'll get more into jim montgomery but just take a look back at the guy who got the axe for jim here is drew bannister been given a fair shake here he's at home today how do you think

he's feeling about the opportunity he was provided to coach the team listen fair shake i mean you look at the number of games 22 games this season you look at the number of games, 22 games this season. You look at the number of games he coached last year as an interim guy. Probably isn't fair. But at the same time, I don't think they were overly committed to Drew Bannister. Let's face it, they gave him a two-year contract. I said the other day that if I'm a coach, if you have any leverage nowadays, you better give me at least a minimum five years based on what you're talking about. If I know you're going to fire me two or three years from now, I want a coach, if you have any leverage nowadays, you better give me at least a minimum five years

based on what you're talking about. If I know you're going to fire me two or three years from now, I want a five-year deal. And Monty got a five-year deal. So it just kind of shows you the type of commitment in terms of what they were willing to give to Drew Bannister. You know, Doug Armstrong has two more years in his contract as a GM before he slides into a president role for three seasons with Alexander Steen.

So, yeah, probably not fair. But at the same time, you've got a guy who has history with the organization, a real relationship with the organization, not just one where he knows some guys. He knows Army very, very well. Army gave him a second chance a few years back, the first team to hire him after he was fired by the Dallas Stars. Took advantage of the situation with Boston to put himself in this spot.

He knows a lot of the players. He was here as an assistant, like I mentioned. I think 11 guys are still here who he worked very, very close with. Al McAnus, Keith Kachok, guys that are heavily involved with the organization. Alexander Steen. He's super tight with a lot of these guys. So, again, when he became available, I think throw everything out the window, including, you know, what's fair and what's not.

It was about not necessarily just today, but moving forward with Jim Montgomery as the head coach. Cam, where do you have the sense of urgency on Doug Armstrong trying to pull this deal off? Because I'm told that part of the big push was the fact that maybe someone else might have been sniffing this thing out. And I haven't confirmed anything, but I got to think that Stevie Eisenman in Detroit was looking around and trying to figure out what his situation may be in the next week or two. You know what? And I talked to somebody in the organization about that today,

because Detroit's probably the one team that you look at right now that's probably closest to making a move. And that's why you can't mess around with this. You know, it reminds me of years ago when Davis Payne was the head coach. He's now an assistant in Winnipeg. And Doug Armstrong had taken over and Ken Hitchcock was available. He was a consultant with Columbus. Of course, he had long history with Hitch and Dallas. And that was his guy, you know.

And so he went ahead and made the move around the same time of the year. Nobody was really anticipating or expecting a move. Wasn't overly shocking. This It wasn't overly shocking. This one wasn't overly shocking. It almost made too much sense. But you're right. You don't want to allow another team to come in and take your guy. If you know you're going to make the move, and Doug Armstrong told me this a long time

ago, once you know you're going to fire a coach or you know you're going to make a move and the guy that you want is available what's the point in waiting you know and even if the blues would have won that game the other night i mean his firing wasn't predicated on how they performed against the islanders if the blues won that game six to one you're probably still seeing a press conference or at least a news release on sunday announcing jim montgomery signed a five-year deal with the Blues. So tell us a little bit about Monty's time with St. Louis as an assistant coach. He had gone through a hard time in Dallas, had been let go there, and came in as an assistant coach behind Ruby, if I'm not mistaken. And, you know, it seems like he formed some roots there.

They kept a house there, if I'm not mistaken, too. He kept a house here. His wife is from St. Louis. His son was playing a hockey here in st louis just a couple of years ago in fact he plays on the same team as barrett jackman's son and there was some talk when monty got the job in boston maybe trying to you know find either a billet for his son or maybe his his son would stay with grandparents of course his wife is from st louis like i said so they've got a lot of family here when boston was here a few days ago maybe like a week or two ago I think he had something like 25 friends and family at the game I mean he really is a St. Louis guy it's it's the perfect storm

for the Blues but it's even more perfect for Jim Montgomery you know you get a chance to come home how do you not take it um not only did he play for the Blues years ago, but he also was a player coach for the Missouri River Otters, you know, in the United Hockey League. You know, so he's been around St. Louis for years. When he was playing, he was training in St. Louis and he was living here in the summer, spends a lot of time here in the summer. So his role with Craig Berube was, you know, as pretty much his lead assistant. And he formed great relationships. He had a number of different text chains going on with different sectors of the team, Russian players, power play guys, different line combinations.

If you know Monty, he is a communicator and a people person. Always has a great relationship with his players. Now, he's not afraid to get in the face of his top guys either, which I think you need. We saw that earlier this year, benching Poster Knack, getting in the face of Brad Marchand in the third period of a game after he had a little bit of a careless turnover. So I think he's willing to do that.

Listen, the team in Boston, I think it became very moody there. It got to a point where sometimes I think you just have to make a change. But I don't think it's a rare reflection on who he is as a coach in terms of how they performed this year. Probably overachieved a little bit the last couple of years, struggled this year. But there's no doubt the Blues has got a significant upgrade in terms of the potential he can have with this group here.

We know when this team's finally ready to compete again, it'll be led by Robert Thomas and Kairou, but there's also 30-plus-something guys. Brendan Saad, Braden Shen, 33 and 32 respectively, and then on the blue line, Pareko, Falk, Nick Letty you mentioned earlier, and then, of course, Ryan Suter's on his last legs. But who's going to be around, and who's not going to be around in the next three months or 12 months for Montgomery? Those are typical contracts to move to.

You know that. You got Turman on an aging player, north of 30, and we're talking 6.5 AAV for guys like Falk and Shen. Shen's your captain. You know, he's going to, you know, center the second line tonight for Jim Montgomery. I think Monty is, I think he's going to give him an opportunity to maybe flex a little bit

offensively and see if he can, you know, recreate that that confidence that Shen has had most of his career that maybe he's lacking a little bit right now, you know, and get these guys to play a little more on the inside. They've been way too perimeter. I think that's been a criticism of the Blues. I mentioned lethargic, but just not a whole lot of emotion in their game. Typically, you get that boost with the new coach. I would think tonight that you're going to see an emotional effort from the team, at least you hope

so. But, you know, Saad's a guy that has some playoff experience, obviously some winning experience. His cap hits a little lower, not as much left on the term. I would think that there would be some teams interested in some of these guys in the event you get there, come trade deadline time. You know, it's interesting. Jordan Cairo is obviously a former first-round and a second-round pick, I should say. Great pick in the second round, really. Still kind of evolving as an NHL player.

They feel like his play away from the puck has gotten much better this season. He's hit the post a bunch, so maybe he's been a little bit snaked, but only has six goals on the season. Jake Navers leads the team with seven goals, so they need more production. I think 13 of the 20 or 21 games they've scored two goals or less. The power play hasn't been good enough, although it's shown signs recently of being a little bit better. But they've got to have more of a shot-first mentality.

Doug Armstrong mentioned it yesterday, and other people in the organization have complained about this. It's almost like they feel like they've got to pass it into the net. They overpass as much as any team in the league. They just won't shoot the puck. But Kairou's no-trade kicks in this summer, you know, and so our no-mover. No, it's a no-trade. Army doesn't give out no-moves.

I should know that. Nobody has a no-move here in St has a no move here so it's no trade kicks in this summer so if you wanted to move them and you wanted to have the flexibility in terms of you know having him not have any say in terms of where he goes i guess you could take advantage of the language in his contract um but listen he's a guy that you would have to get some value back in return. You've got to have some players to replace these guys. But I would think some of the other guys you mentioned, there would be some interest. And if you really wanted to go down that road,

I think you could find a taker. You know, Doug Armstrong is universally respected as one of the best GMs going. Obviously, he made a couple of savvy moves with the offer sheets this offseason. He's a team Canada's going. Obviously, he made a couple of savvy moves with the offer sheets this offseason. He's team Canada's guy. And he's kind of set a rebuild that mirrors the Kings one of old, right?

I think he said three or four years, and they're a year and a half into it. But I can't help but notice he's fired five head coaches. Like, that's pretty unprecedented in the end. I don't know how often it is that GM keeps their job through five head coaches, but it does look like they're in good position. They do I don't know how often it is that GM keeps their job through five head coaches, but it does look like they're in good position.

They do have a lot of first-round prospects coming soon, do they not? Yeah, they've got a bunch of guys coming. They've got a couple of Swedes. You know, Jimmy Snuggeru, who had four points over the weekend, I think, who was a big star for Team USA last year in the World Juniors. He should be here at the end of the year. Delavor Dvorsky, who was high on a lot of teams' lists. You know, they drafted him 10th overall last year. the World Juniors. He should be here at the end of the year. Dalibor Dvorsky, who was high on a lot of teams' lists, you know, they drafted him 10th overall last year, but he's 19. They want

to let him play in the American League where he is right now, but he's producing, putting up points right now in the American League. Yeah, you're right. It has been a lot of coaches. Now, the Banister situation was a little bit different. You know, I mean, they kicked the tires on dean evanston

um i think there was legitimate interest in david carl from university of denver who's uh has some success down there obviously winning national championships and and that didn't work out so i don't think they were just looking to throw a bunch of money at a coach and hand out term for somebody who didn't really excite them that much. And let's be honest with you. Everyone knew that Jim Montgomery was in the final year of his contract. He talks to a lot of people around here. I think they had some conversation about an extension there in Boston, whether it was a low ball situation or for whatever reason,

they couldn't come to an agreement. I hear it was more of a low ball offer. You know, I hear here's your extension. We want you, but really don't. It's OK if we don't get a deal done, you know. And so I think they wanted to be patient from that standpoint. If Boston would have announced last summer that they weren't bringing jim montgomery back monty would have been hired by st louis last summer you know so i i feel like this was the guy that they had targeted for quite some time and they wanted to allow themselves to be a little bit patient but like you said you can only be so patient once he's available don't allow another team to swoop in and and create or you know throw something on the table that's too good to

pass up, and now you lose them, and you're still stuck at square one. So pretty savvy, to be honest with you. I think they got the guy that they want, and they were never really overly committed to Drew Bannister. You always had a feeling that he was just kind of a placeholder until they got the guy in that they wanted. We're talking to Andy Strickland, co-host of the Cam and Strick podcast. So, Strick, what are the odds of you talking Doug Armstrong into picking up Chris Kreider

tonight after the game and taking him back to St. Louis? Apparently, he's available. What are your thoughts going on in New York right now? Is he going to get his first assist of the year? I mean, I'm looking at his numbers. He's got no assists on the year. I mean, they're an interesting team when you really dive into the numbers. Adam Fox doesn't have a goal.

Truba doesn't have a goal. It feels like they've been waiting for, what's his name, to get to 300 goals forever, Zibanejad. I think he's been stuck at like 298 for a while. I think he's been there at least for a little bit there. So they're just okay. You know, they're talking about throwing all this money out at Shesterkin, which, I mean, you can have your opinion on whether or not you want to do that.

But, like, his numbers numbers still great and good. I think as a team, they lead the league and say percentage, but his numbers are a little higher compared to where he's been in recent years with goals against average and whatnot. So, but Crider, I would take a man,

the blues power play. They could use a guy like that, to be honest with you. They need somebody up top who could quarterback a power play and shoot the puck tipper. So they've got one of those, that would really help because neighbors isn't bad in terms of being a net front guy. They've got some creative

players with Thomas and Kyra and Vucinavich and these guys. But I've always liked Kreider, man. He's a guy who I think he's still going to pace for close to 40 goals. So this guy knows how to score. There's no question about that. So the Blues are in the Winter Classic this year. Is there excitement locally? This is Chicago, St. Louis.

It's not a typically huge matchup here. Well, Bedard, man, are people going to be okay if Bedard doesn't make hockey Canada? I mean, I'm reading this like this is some type of travesty if you don't put him on the roster. I mean, it's Canada. You can have two teams in Canada. This guy's got three goals and 12 assists.

How many players in Canada are all-star players that are having better seasons than Conor Bedard? And I see Sidney Crosby in his, what, first or second year, had 102 points or whatever, and was left off the Olympic roster in 2006. And that did create a little bit of headlines at the time. But, I mean, getting to your question, I mean, it hasn't necessarily created that marquee feel that you were looking for.

I actually have two tickets to the game if anybody wants to buy them off of me. I might just sell the tickets. If anybody wants tickets, let me know to go to the Winter Classic. Although I'm looking forward to it. They announced their jerseys the other day, and the outdoor games are always great to go to. I'm planning on taking my son, but I told my wife I'm not telling him until Christmas because if the temperature is under 25,

I may not go. Tickets are the same price as Taylor Swift tickets here in Toronto? What's that cost? Three grand each, I think. No, they're a little cheaper than that. Not much, but they're a little cheaper than that. I saw Trudeau had a good time at the concert, by the way.

He got a lot of attention for that. Yeah. I was just talking about that. He's dabbling in politics lately. What were your thoughts on that, Ken? No, we'll let you go. I don't have any bracelets for you to share or anything like that but i appreciate it guys we appreciate you strick thank you all right uh enjoy covering the game tonight andy strickland everybody thanks does a great job on the cam and strick podcast for the record, 38 Canadian NHLers have 15 or more points this year.

No one's taking it harder right now than Conor Bedard himself. Is that right? On his struggles. Do you have that sound bite? I was just editing it while you were talking to Mr. Strickland there. And I'm putting it in so Derek can play it. Okay. Before you play it, just,

I know there's some people that still say that his talent warrants a position on Team Canada, but there's just no chance that you can send a message that rewards his play and what are you telling other players that have played better or more deserving i've got a couple of uh nights of television this week and uh on both of them we're doing something related to this so i was going through some sort of fringe guys making the team and i was looking at tom wilson's uh stats in november and i was like no goals six assists you just cannot put this guy on the team you know i'm going through this in my head conor

bedard in november no goals six assists and he doesn't do what tom wilson does on the other side you know yeah i'm a i'm a big believer of like if if you're targeted as a fourth-line guy, then those goals for Tom Wilson won't matter as much. Well, sure. But Conor Bedard cannot. That's kind of the point I'm making. If you have those two guys and you're going to get no goals. Can't make an argument, right, on Conor Bedard playing on the fourth roll. Yeah, that's his role.

I don't feel. Not good enough. He's not playing good enough to be on Canada. But, you know, I kind of disagree with Stricta. Like, I don't. That's not a conversation that I have or hear about people. Oh, Bedard's enough to be on Canada. But I kind of disagree with Stricta. That's not a conversation that I have or hear about people. Oh, Bedard's got to be there. Do you have that?

Do people say that to you? No, I hear a lot of Canadians wanting the best players there. Yeah. I don't think it's a detriment to Conor Bedard's career that he's not making one of the most stacked forward cores ever. You're going to pick a guy like Anthony Sorelli instead or Brandon Hagel or someone like that. It is a disappointment. It's a disappointment.

It's a disappointment for him. It's a disappointment for him. For Canadians, I think, who have a lot of hope in him. But he's not there yet. He's not ready. Gannis got some good forwards, bud. They're going to be okay. I know, but he's not.

He just didn't come in the league as another young, great forward. He came in as a labeled. And we're talking only about a handful of guys in the last 50 years that have had the buildup that this guy has had. That's all. Yep. So do you have that sound clip? I do have the sound clip.

Let's listen to Conor Bedard earlier this week. From watching video, what do you see offensively right now? What can you do better? I mean, I could name a hundred things but um i don't know man it's uh it's been frustrating for sure and um you know i just don't feel like uh you know i'm really doing anything so um you know just keep chipping away at it i guess and you know, hopefully kind of find my game again. A hundred things. A hundred. I mean, I'm very pro Bedard.

I like the kid. And I think he's a very good player. Like, I think he's super talented. And I do believe that he's going to find it. But, you know, this isn't the drafting for potential team. This is we need you to play four games over a few days here. That are important. Need you now.

Guess what? The teams you're playing against? Yeah. Fairly good. No time to find it. No. He's never gone through anything like this. There's not a chance with this kid.

Sure. I think it doesn't kill you. It makes you stronger. For sure. Look but lafreniere is now he's been definitely through it but they can't keep sucking what's that like if they just keep sucking the black every year yeah they need to like make us take a step here eventually like they they read i'll tell you who has more pressure or as much pressure as connor is Luke Richardson. I mean, as a coach, you wear that yourself. You've got this young player, and I'm not doing enough. He's revisiting his situations.

He's revisiting his ice time. That's where you go to your head coach right now, and you go, I need some help. Unfortunately, the idea of surround this guy with, like, good proven veteran guys, they didn't get veteran guys who are still effective. Like, thanks, Foligno and all that, but he's... Taylor Hall, healthy scratch.

Taylor Hall is so ineffective right now. Just not helping him at all. Neither was when he was on the line with Joey Anderson and Jason Dickinson. Like, he's dying on the line with Joey Anderson and Jason Dickinson. Like, he's dying on a vine. Joey Anderson of Leafs fame? Of Leafs something. Yeah.

Part of the McCabe train. Anderson was. Yeah. Who could forget that piece? I guess you did. I don't know about you, Kev. You remember that? All right.

It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app, latest odds, and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. It must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. You're talking about the St. Louis Blues with Andy Strickland there. And they fire their head coach.

They bring in Jim Montgomery. So I thought it would be interesting to look at their odds now to make the playoffs. So if you go to the standings, how far out are they? I'm just quickly pulling it up here. The last place, the last wildcard spot in the West is at 24 points, and the

St. Louis Blues currently sit at 19 points, 9-12-1 through 22 games played. Their odds to make the playoffs are plus 600 whoa do you think that this move is something that is made just to have him there for the future or do you think they'd actually get a coach public is that roster good enough to have any value on that number plus 600 i don't know so i think they can be better than they've been for sure and i do think that the west is you you know, there's,

what's it going to take, 92, 93 points? It's not impossible for them to get in. But I think it's long-term. Like Strick mentioned briefly, they have some like four first-round picks coming in the next couple years. They're aiming at a three-, four-year rebuild. He's got a five-year contract.

I think they just want to see positive strides out of their young players and try to be more competitive. So I'm not taking that. They're not getting it. Okay. And a couple other interesting ones on the playoff numbers here. This is so surprising to me. But the Nashville Predators are plus 140 to make the playoffs.

So there's all these teams behind them. You know, the Flames, the Sabres, Ottawa Senators, all these teams have longer odds to make the playoffs than the Nashville Predators do right now on bet 365, plus 140. So they believe that they're going to figure it out. They got the good play. So, sorry, what's the no side of that bet? I just have to make the playoffs. It'd be nice to get the other side of that bet? I just have to make the playoffs.

It'd be nice to get the other side of that number. That's crazy. Yeah. I'm surprised by that. Are the Preds better than we think? That 3-0 loss to Seattle did not help them, but they're one team that has to go on like a heater. Yeah.

And we haven't seen it yet. And maybe it's, there's a feeling in Toronto that they could very much go on one right now. But there has to be a team that's going to rip off like 10 of 11 or something. And that's the only way Nashville gets in right now. I mean, remember last year. They got to go on a streak.

Last year, they went 18 games, whatever. Yeah, maybe that's what they think is going to happen. And the whole time I'm going, I don't see it from that roster. That roster is no good. And the last number I'll bring up is the Ottawa Senators are down to plus 190 to make the playoffs. Sens have a generous schedule coming up? Yep.

What do you got on that? Sens schedule. It's pretty easy. Yep. What do you got on that? Sens schedule. It's pretty easy. Like, it's multiple ducks. There's the San Jose Sharks mixed in there. Yeah. So, it's the Flames tonight, who I think the Flames are due to lose a hockey game at some point. Sharks.

There's the Kings. Ducks. Red Wings. Preds. Isles. Ducks. Like, their next nine games, eight games, there's only one playoff team in the mix.

There you go. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete's odds and find out why it's ever ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus. Until then, please play responsibly. Okay, we'll pick up that Ottawa Senator conversation as they lose a key guy out on the blue line. We'll tell you who after the break

when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning, 6 to 9. It's the Fan Morning Show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Heading down the stretch on the Real Kipper and Born Show nick kiprails justin born sammy mckee

sour real kipper and born is brought to you by bet 365 let's get into some news and notes when we left off the ottawa senators didn't seem that long ago that they beat the toronto maple leafs what about two weeks ago? Right. Where they could not have looked better than the Leafs. 3-0 win. And they looked like next level stuff. Yeah.

Since then they lost to Philly, Carolina, the Golden Knights, and the Canucks. And the Canucks. Yeah. Oh, sorry, the Oilers as well. And defenseman zooms out with a fractured foot. That's bad. I think you know that, but that's not good. A team that's struggling on the defensive side of things,

that doesn't help. So what's up? I don't know. What do you do? What do you do with the Ottawa Senators? Is it a mental thing? We know they've got good players. We know that they're also locked into long-term deals.

But if there's one team that's crying for maybe a significant shakeup, is it not this team? It's this team. It's this team. And I got my Sens fan friends who are saying they would do anything but Stutzla or Sanderson, which, by the way, I didn't mention the captain there. So, you know, people frustrated like just, well,

they need to do something else. This isn't working, right? How long can you do this? He's still like, you know, I saw the clips of him attacking somebody on the ice there the other night. I don't know who it was against, Vancouver. Yeah, 4-1. Play hockey. It's I don't know who it was. It was against Vancouver. Yeah. 4-1.

Play hockey. It's like, you know, it's not cute anymore. Play hockey. Like, you're the captain of the team, man. And he's a guy who can – he's got 80-plus point seasons. He can score 40 goals. Yeah. I watched him the other day.

They're in a fairly close game, and he's just looking for someone to run into, looking for someone to be angry at. Like, you're so good. Yeah. Do hockey. do the hockey stuff do the hockey so i don't know you you think there's potential for them to i think they've got to do something i do yeah people are frustrated and it's not helping that you went and spent 8.25 million on a goalie and he hasn't looked like anything like you would have

hoped the first 20 games in. You have to just believe that's going to sort itself out. Yeah, I know, but, like, by when? It's that American Thanksgiving thing going on right now. Yeah, what are you saying? I'm saying that. You're talking about him? No, I'm saying that. 3-10-8-81.

Now the odds are starting to go against you that you're going to make the playoffs. Yeah. That's all. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you can't trade Allmark like that contract is. No, no, you can't. But you've got to find a different way to buy time or to get a different look in front of him and wait for him to come around.

Yeah, all strengths save percentage for the Ottawa Senators. They're near the bottom of the league, bottom six or seven teams, whatever it is exactly. So, yeah, it's been a major issue. You know, the other part is everyone has good young players that they draft and then their prospects and then they make the team and then fans are happy, but they still have to become better than other good players you know like is norris gonna get there and pinto gonna get there

and greg gonna get there and are these guys just gonna be okay you know if they're just okay that's not great and so some you know some new bodies i think they're disappointed with what they're getting out of Perron and the fourth line. How long ago was it the Pierre Dorian said? We're a team? No, the build is over and now we're ready to contend. Was that two or three years ago? I thought you were talking about that. We're a team.

That he said to David Amber. Which was one of the greatest lines. What's the greatest strengths of your team? We're a team. We're a team. We're a team. And David Amber said that. And David Harris is in there. I don't have to laugh.

It really may have come down to him just signing everybody prematurely. Yeah. It's tough. You get excited. You want to keep people. One of their biggest problems is they've got Jake Sanderson and Shabbat, and they're both making $8 million bucks and you only need one of them and i can tell you who it is we can all tell you who it is sanderson all day long yeah

like shabbat's got to go really really i think there's a market for him he's got a modified no trade find a market okay you find one i actually agree with that because he's a guy who's going to play a lot of minutes for you he's now let's see 27 years old or something he's not a young guy anymore yeah you know and and if you feel like he's not physical not a hard defender not not not enough things um yeah it just felt like they tried to do you know they're like assign all of them to the cheap contracts like the quote-unquote long-term cheap ones that always work out the jack hughes yeah it's like let's get them all under contract because they're all so good and then you know year four of it you're like oh crap maybe i think this is one of my core beliefs that you can't not

everyone is built to get a long-term contract like you need to be so sure before committing to, you know, eight years of a guy's life. That's a lot. Okay. Lots of noise around the New York Rangers, more specifically about potentially moving major players out, including maybe blowing up their whole program, according to one of their local veteran writers in Larry Brooks. New York Post, Larry Brooks.

The title is, It's Time to Blow Up This Underachieving Rangers Corps. I would like to fill everyone in. The Rangers are 12-6-1. I guess that's what you're saying, Brooks. I guess that's what I'm saying. There it is. Elliot Friedman dropped the name Chris Kreider out there as a potential.

And Truba. Well, no, Truba's been out there. They wanted to get rid of Truba in the summer. Why? Neither captain. Listen, it's a really sensitive situation there with Truba in that room as the captain and knowing that your team wanted to trade you. You think the hate is art?

Have you seen his art? Do you not know about his art? Oh, I know about his art. He's quite an artist. Yeah. Is he? I'm not going to make fun of the guy for having interest.

No, you make fun of this particular interest. I am pretty sure the art has nothing to do with it. Okay. I'm quite comfortable in that. But at $8 million, I think he's got next year, if I'm not mistaken. This and next. This and next.

He's old. They tried to move him out, and he made it clear to the Rangers that there's a family situation, and I'm not lifting my no move. Oh, really? Zero goal, six assists. He's playing 20-32 a night. You know, that's a tempting guy, right? I mean, we talk about him as being today's Scott Stevens.

He's the preeminent open ice hitter in the league. He's physical. He defends well, think i uh i just don't know like if teams are willing to eat all of that or how much the rangers would have to hold on but again i gotta go back to he's made it clear that he does not want to go anywhere because of a family situation is this is just as much as to change the look and wake up the room or like i mean what's like if you're trading crider and truba which are two identity guys of this era of that like like brooks he wrote there in his headline i don't know is it

me they're talking about zibanejad and panarin well they're older right there we're talking about guys in their 30s zibanejad's what, 32? Yeah, and looks all of that. Not sure exactly what it is. Zibanejad is 31 with, oh my goodness. I can't even count the years available. Still on his contract. Five, maybe?

Yeah, he goes all the way to the end. Yeah, five. Chris Kreider has got six and a half for two more years. Zibanejad has 14 points in 19 games. Minus 10. Minus 10? Yeah. They're good. I just find it kind of strange, guys.

And I know they got the crap beat out of them. They're beaten on the score clock. Anyways, Saturday night against Edmonton 6-2 but like they're in the what's their record 12-6-1 they're they're what the leafs are but a little better they're they're number one seed in the east today in the wild card now why why the panic right now? I don't understand. Kip, I think there's some self-awareness. Yeah.

They have the number one save percentage in the NHL. Now, I'll stop myself there. So first save percentage in the NHL and their underlying numbers aren't great. But they do have the goalie. The goalie is Sam, as we like to say. He's on the team. Yeah, he's on the team. He gets to be a good player for you, too.

So it's not like they're going to regress. He's a Vezna winner, necessarily. So they're a good team with him. It doesn't sound like shipping guys out to ship them out helps. So they must want a different type of player there. They're looking for something, right? Yeah. That bottom line of Jimmy Vesey, Sam Carrick, and Matt Rempe,

you're not winning a cup. I think he's got, I'm not sure if it's a complete no move. He may have one of those limited. But I think teams would have to know that he'd be willing to go. Who? Trouba. Trouba. Trouba.

Yeah, yeah. And as far as Kreider goes, I think there'd be teams. Falling over themselves as huge as fast as he shoots it in the net. Like, we're just talking about the Ottawa Senators. But I would believe that part of his list of teams that he wouldn't want to go to as an American would be anywhere in Canada, not just Ottawa. I'm sure the Sens are on that list.

But he would be a type of guy that I'd go, okay, he's a little older than the rest of them, and he's had playoff success. That's the thing when you tape on guys like Perron or Giroux. Giroux's been effective, mind you, but you need some guys who are still effective and older. I look at that Rangers decor, Keiondre Miller and Adam Fox, sure.

No, no, no. They're not playing well right now. And Adam Fox is not, like... He's been disappointing since the Norris. He's, I don't know if he's tired or hurt or, you know, maybe just the fact that he's not the biggest guy in the world is kind of catching up to him a little bit. I was actually just going to say that I think they're thin,

particularly if they move Trouba. Braden Schneider, Zach Jones, Ryan Lindgren. Keandre Miller has regressed. they're thin particularly if they move truba braden schneider zach jones ryan lindgren keander miller has regressed he was really in the last year looked like he was going to be like you know like he's big and fast and like the potential is still there like a headman type of guy but he's like he's nowhere near that right now and he's he's he was better last year than he is this year and lingren is plays hard but he's got looks like to me a little wear and tear how many times have we seen him leave a game and then come back right and you're like okay he's done for the night he comes back he's tough tough as nails, but he's weathered.

So it's not what I think maybe their general manager is looking at is just saying that we have a really good goalie and we're overperforming and I don't like the feel of this group and I've got to shake it up. The Rangers have played, I just was looking this up, they're the fourth easiest schedule in the NHL. The coach too, it's like LaViolette. The fourth easiest schedule in the NHL. Really? Which. The coach too. It's like,

like LaViolette. Like he seems like, I don't know. I don't know how much fire there is to this smoke, to be honest with you. I think what he did was. This is the shakeup. It's just,

he's rattling some chains right now. Put some bees in the bonnets. Cages. He's rattling cages. And I think that's why you go and leak it to the media. Yeah. Makes sense. What was the last time we saw?

I wouldn't like that. What's that? I wouldn't like that. Nothing. When was the last time we saw a guy like Chris Kreider at $6.5 million get traded in the middle of the season? Yeah, just like a player trade. That was not on an expiring contract. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen. They need him. Want to talk about the Penguins? We're talking about all the positive Sidney Crosby 600 goals. We're really thrilled still about that. Does that still work for you?

I think it's unbelievable and amazing that he got to 600 goals, 1,600 points, three Stanley Cups, and two cons mice. The only other guy to ever do that in the history of the league is Wayne Gretzky. So I think that's pretty amazing. I also think it's completely heartbreaking that he got the 600th goal

and a 6-1 loss to the club the Leafs lost to last night. I think it's honestly, that situation is a perfect microcosm for where the Pittsburgh Penguins are at. So they could probably be getting a 600th and a loss to the Utah 6-1. You should fight more. You can tell that's frustration, though. What else do you do for your team? Humiliating. Embarrassing.

Just looking to do something. Not for Sid, but for the Penguins. No, of course not for Sid. Can somebody else jump out there? For 19 other guys, you should feel humiliated. If you're on the bench and you see your star player doing that, you're like, oh, that's supposed to be me. I'm the next guy to get thrown out of that game.

Right. I cannot leave the game with the rest of them just coming off the ice chipper without no sweat oh my god effort said how do you look that guy in the eye when he's fighting fighting right when he's fighting and you're just but who's this bottom half that lineup gets to leave the game they got phil tomasino today phil tomasino is there he's on the scene uh tomasino uh came across for a fourth round pick from nashville 23 years old i think he has four points in 11 games this year he did have 11 goals as a rookie a couple years ago first rounder 24th overall there's all all the Phil Tomasino information. And who else?

And classic Dubas guy. Like reclamation offensive guy that just like will not do anything. If that building by January, February is half empty. It's bad. It's really bad. Well, so are they. it's not good what do they have guys what do they have that's even

tradable when he went there there was no picks like he had nothing in that regard player wise you can't trade the good players apparently it's against the rules I don't know I don't want to tell you like paul yarvey was a bet

a buy low guy matt nieto was a buy low guy kevin hayes lazat did sid purposely resign at 8 7 just in case make it movable he needed an exit strategy i mean he needs it get ready like the strategy should start but it's not going to get bad enough that he would want out i don't know the answer i i thought for sure no but i'm starting to kind of think that way yeah it's just there's a perfect there's too much third line center for the leafs there's just oh it's too much. There's too much. Perfect third line center for the Leafs. There's just too much. Ooh, it's all water problems at a great rate. Too much hockey. Can you imagine Dubas trading Crosby to the Leafs? That would be the day.

The only way to salvage his legacy here. That would be the day that I'd be like, you know what? That Kyle, not so bad. Not so bad at all. Everything's great. That's a tough one day for Kyle. I mean, I don't know what you do your hands were tied to start with but certainly hasn't made it better that contractor ryan graves is a struggle didn't have to trade for eric carlson carlson is just a disaster they got to trade carlson

that's what they got to do to who um can't do it. No? No, it's just... It's just... Even at five million bucks, that guy would scare me to come into my room. Yeah. You're not just talking about on the ice. I mean, it's a big personality to... Sucks a lot of oxygen. You know, it kind of makes you look a little different

at the Brett Burns thing in San Jose. Burns is playing with Slavin in Carolina, and they're the best defensive pair in the nhl really what a period on the end of it what any offensively you love burns what a pickup you love but just watch him still the juice that he still has at his age prime in san jose when carlson was there and he must have been like this guy. Speaking of which, Kochekov is out with a concussion. So it's Spencer Martin. And Freddie's

out long term. It's like 8 to 12 weeks. And I think you're done being able to count on Freddie. That's over. Can they just stop zagging so hard and just go get a damn goalie? Well, this reminds me of the devils the devils like had a good team and then like we we have no way to fix this problem

and then they went markstrom and it was like oh another the best team in the metro what a surprise this has gibson written all over it oh really oh yeah oh yeah i gotta tell you i i have some like not great thoughts about gibson based on him not wanting out of Anaheim all these years when they've been bad. Go compete! They'll pick up 40% of that contract, 50%. It'll be... Duxwell? Oh yeah. You think?

I'd love to see him behind Carolina's defense. He might be really good in that spot. Alright. On that note, our thanks to Joshua Cloak in our leaf edition of our show and then andy strickland putting a bow on jim montgomery who will lead st louis against the new york rangers tonight all right boys good job today we got through a marner conversation and we didn't want to kill each other let's get tuned in tomorrow to see if it's the same.

Have a great night, everybody.