Real Kyper & Bourne - John Chayka's Potential Fit as Toronto GM

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee catch up with the latest on the Toronto Maple Leafs' GM search, with the word being that Mike Gillis is out, while John Chayka continues to gain momentum. Then, Sam shares his Marlies report after attending their recent playoff game. Later, they review Edmonton's Game 2 loss to the Anaheim Ducks, Connor McDavid's quiet start, and pressure mounting on Kris Knoblauch. Afterwards, former NHLer and NHL Network's Jason Demers joins the show (29:22) to discuss the Penguins' chances after falling 0-3 to the Flyers, playing under Chayka in Arizona, and the pros and cons of bringing franchise legends to the front office. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Oh, come on in. You have nothing better to do in the next two hours. You are right where you need to be on the real Kipper and Bourne show. The Kipperiot, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Frank, the tank is in studio upstairs. Derek Brandeo in the house. What? What?

I like looking at your lineup. I just. And paying attention to it, like 30 seconds before we go on air. The best part about that is, is like, you know, the talent, quote unquote. You're supposed to have some sort of idea who you're having on the show and like what you're going to say or whatever. Of course you do. Yeah, but what if there was just no one? Like, what if I just came in as like, it's us for two hours today and you'd be like, welcome to the show.

Oh, nobody. I didn't prepare for it. We'd be fine. I know we'd be fine. If people haven't figured it out in the last five years, years. We really just make it up as we go along. There's a lot of flying by the seat of her pants on this show.

But there's also a lot of like gathering information and just not planning the order in which it comes out. Which is awesome. That's very well put. Thank you. Awesome. I wouldn't want to sell anybody on that notion. But it's just so accurate.

It's like, soup of information. If we went and pitched our show to somebody on the outside right now, there'd be like, it's like Seinfeld, man. Your show about nothing. Your favorite show is the show about nothing. This is a show about something, just more than nothing. We'll figure it out here as we move along. We are live on Sportsnet 360, 590 The Fan in Toronto.

Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Jason Demers will join us. Yep, yep, yep. In about 30 minutes. We'll go around the National Hockey League. What we saw last night, David Amber as well, in studio. as he gets ready for a night of action

hockey night in Canada and Sportsnet as well. In the meantime, GM watch. I did a scouting trip to the Marley's game last night. As the stomach turns. Isn't that a soap opera? I think it's more of something to do with the world. Oh, as the world turns.

Are we doing an update there? Well, I mean, what update? it's kind of quiet out there. I do hear more John Chaka than I do Mike Gillis right now. And I will even tell you that someone and it's unconfirmed

that says that maybe Gillis is out. Really? See, this is why it's a good show. We don't get to know these things until the mics come on. So. Well, at least you wait until 402 this time. Yeah, that's right. Outside of that, outside of that. And then the assistant general managers list that we've heard with none of them with prior GM experience,

it kind of just leaves John Chica out there. Yeah, mathing that out. So let me just start with piece one of this conversation, which is Gillis. Does it sound to you like they decided against going down that path? I have not gathered any information to definitively tell you that's what I'm hearing. Okay. So there's a number of scenarios that they cooled off on him. Mm-hmm.

He cooled off on the leaves. Also an option. Or they couldn't come to terms or, yeah, Mike wasn't comfortable, I guess, with the vision, maybe. But whatever the case is, either they've got him tucked away somewhere and will present him when they're ready or he's out. He's no longer a candidate.

So if in fact there is not grand misdirection at play, you know, I saw somewhere on Twitter, someone mentioned like, oh, it'll be Evan Gold and Jamie Lang and Bruner from Boston. I think Jimmy Murphy may have reported something to that effect that he thought that he's a Boston guy. But the Chaka thing does come up a lot and does seem to be something that has some substance to it, maybe?

I think so. There's, I think there's a few links for sure. Yeah. Correct me from wrong with the families from this area. Yeah, from this area. Southern Ontario. Yep. And there are, yeah, there's some synergy,

one might say, with Chaka and. Synergy? Yeah, well, with people. Are the horizontal? The silos are not vertical. They're diagonal. No, just people in the orbit that he would have connections with his time with Moldover and Brasson, you know, from being a GM. Relationships to the guys that he has here in Toronto.

You know, like, I just think he is connected to this. Yeah. In a variety of ways. So I think it's possible. And to your point, he had a GM experience. I think a lot of people would look at him and say, well, he had four years of GM experience and it didn't go awesome. But I think that was a pretty tough hand. He was dealt to play there in Arizona at 26.

Is he as rich as we hear he is with like the Wendy's? Yeah, I think at one point he owned like 80. And like now maybe down to 60 or something like sold a bunch. Okay, can I just have one? Yeah. Kipper, if you ran Wendy's, they wouldn't have any pens. They wouldn't have any. They wouldn't have any.

They'd be losing their AirPods everywhere. People would love to flip hands. hamburgers for me. Yeah, they would. I can tell you that right now. We'd have a blast. Oh, yeah, that's true. I guess it's just like a flipping hamburgers for you for five years.

That's not so bad. Yeah, it's pretty great. You know, how are people going to react in Toronto if it's John Chaka, you know, as well as Sundeen and Robert? Honestly, well, first of all, I would believe that there would still be a team around Chica, which would include ex players. And maybe it's Matt's, maybe it's Ty. Ty's name we've heard floated out there now.

Yeah. So. I think he's past the check. I think whatever the vision is, he'd be surrounded by a team. So I know the owner Blitzer in New Jersey says, hey, this is

one guy, one decision maker and Sonny. I'm not sure when we eventually have a press conference with Keith Pelly, he's going to throw all of it on one person. I don't get that sense, right? And we don't get that sense from his last press conference.

How do you feel about the involvement of former players who haven't been in management now becoming decision makers? I don't know about decision makers. Decision guiders? Well, I don't know. If it's mats or tie and, you know, what do you think about flipping this guy for a first round, right? It's like, I don't know, like, what do you guys have been doing for five or six years?

You're just watching, you know, in Tye's cases, you've been just watching focusing on mats. Has he been watching the rest of the league? Is he up to speed on prospects on another team? How deep are you involved to participate in those types of conversations? Or do you need months, weeks and months to eventually get yourself to that place, which I'd hope that they'd be committed to doing. You know what they are to me?

What are those gutter guards? You put in a bowling alley? Like, you take a little kid so they can't throw it in the gutter. Like, have these guys who can say, hey, this is not going to play in this market. Like, just keep him from someone from making a terrible mistake. Say, hey, you can't trade a superstar for a host of picks when you're trying to. Just kind of keep things on the rails for someone maybe.

I don't know. You asked how the reception would be for, Chica. Did you say that? I said that. I would say that he doesn't amongst the casual fan have a sterling reputation. I think his name carries some weight in terms of, and like I don't even

really know totally why. But I guess maybe the way he was perceived when he was in Arizona and the way it kind of ended there. Like, you know, you talk to my Dumbull Leaf fan buddies who are all just normal guys. The name Chica doesn't exactly

you know, give a lot of confidence to people. Honestly. If I'm just sort of, you know, going through the group chats, that's kind of what's happening for me. And it may, it may be like legit concerns

on Chica, right? It may be. I really believe that I know this market well enough. Whoever it is, there's going to be people just picking it apart. Totally. That doesn't matter who. Are three of them in this room?

Well, yeah. But there's not going to be confetti. guns if it's Ryan Martin instead of John Chaka. No, no. You know, like, I totally agree with that. And like I've said, all week, I'm totally underwhelmed by this list. Yeah. I have been since it's... But I do think that there's a difference that people are going to go in with pre-conceived notions about what John Chica is versus, I don't know what's...

I don't even know that the guy's name, the guy from... Evan Gold? No, from Dallas. Scott White. Scott White or Ryan Martin. I don't think anybody knows anybody. No, but guess what? Nobody's willing to do their homework now. now, but once they get named, that's when the digging starts, right? Totally. So, okay, like Ryan Martin. Yeah.

But he really knows anything about Ryan Martin other than he's assistant general manager for the New York Rangers. But he was in Detroit. He didn't leave on good terms. And it was a little underwhelming when he left. You didn't like the applicator contract? They weren't in great shape. The team wasn't in great shape when he left. And then he goes to New York

And now he's potentially leaving New York They're not in great shape And the American Hockey League team And Hartford is not in great shape And it's like Yeah to your point People are going to be like, we got them Pick it all apart.

Yeah. And I do think that with some increased focus on Cheka I think people might look back at that time where Arizona was run by Marulo who wasn't paying people and hired Chaco, who was 26 and probably not ready for that. In all the complications that came with that, I think he was handed sort of a tough one. You look at the trades he made there. They're actually kind of good.

Contracts were actually kind of good. I know it didn't all go great. And so people resent the, you know, someone getting handed a job before they probably deserved it. And there were a couple incidents. It didn't end perfectly clean. And then they had the draft thing. So people look at it and go, write them off. I think some reevaluation of that time would validate.

vindicate him a little bit. I think you're right, but for a big portion of the fan base, he'd be starting behind the eight ball in terms of perception. Is that fair? Totally fair. Well, I mean, I will say. I mean, I will say. I'm going to say this.

The one thing that did come into my text group yesterday was, why do they want, I don't want to say it, why do they want Dolorama Dubus? I was like, don't do that. Don't do that. He's not what he is. He's been successful in everything he's done. He's been successful in business. he's been successful.

It wasn't. What do you define successful for him? And they'll pick apart what happened to him in Arizona and they weren't successful. And who's to blame? Was it an ownership? Did he not have the assets? Did he not have the resources?

Well, that's it. Right? And everybody will pick it apart. Yeah, I don't think. But he went to the conference. Julian Breisbois would have done great. Did he ever go to the conference final? Yeah.

What? Yeah, they, that 2014 was it, I think. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, like that, that was a tough spot. You know, that working for that owner and that time with that team. And will they leave alone his history about being suspended for lying and cheating to the league? Will they, will they leave it alone?

Will they dig it up? No. No way. Definitely. Well, I think it'll be looked into further in what really happened here. And again, I don't know that he's going to come off bad if they do that. Like, it's, he was in a tough spot. Can I, can we go back to the Gillis thing?

Sure. Do you have anything more on Chico? I just, what do you think changed between him being the front runner versus him being, you know, not, you don't know for sure, but out potential? Yeah. Like, did he want to blow it up? I've talked to a couple of different people and I'll get conflicting kind of ideas of the potential for it to blow up. And one would be that he's at that age now. He just cannot, he doesn't want to come in and be seen as a guy that is one of three or four.

He has to be the guy in charge. I respect that level of stubbornness. Stubberness. It's like, hey, it's the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's a big organization. We're going to need some other people. And he's still like, nope, it's me or boss. Now, there's another, you know, a side that I'm hearing is the guy's been out for 12 years.

He'll do and say anything to get in there just to get in there. And then, well, but it doesn't seem like that's happened, though. It's kind of quiet, right? It's kind of quiet. You're right. So I don't know, like he, could he still be very much in the mix? And they're keeping him quiet. Of course, so much has been made out of leaks and people talking. Are they keeping this one incredibly quiet?

Which might be a victory in itself for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it sounds like these people have been in town this week and conversations have been had. Yeah, I have heard, though, some assistant GMs have, I said this the other day. Of that group have been notified? Yeah, yeah, that they're out.

So. So there is a, there is a narrowing happening. Just two guys undercutting one another. I'll do it for a one five. I'll do it for one three. One one. Do we hear one? I mean, what else is going on?

Have you been to a live auction? Yeah, it's intense. It's not for general managers, though. Not a reverse one. It's electric. It is fantastic. Yeah, good auctioneers awesome. It's really good.

I think... Matt Martin does it at the Gillies of the Gilles of 13 drinks in. It's not an electric. It does feel like something could happen next week. Yeah. So that's what I was going to ask. My next question was going to be timeline. You think next week?

It's kind of feeling that way. How did we just do 15 minutes on this with nothing? We do 15 minutes on it every day with nothing. This is your 15 minute updated GM conversation. And look, I even put up the Leafs jersey today because I knew we were going to do 15 minutes on. Oh, hey, before we move on. So Sam went to the Marley's playoff game last night. This is for this guy that's DME four or five days in a row.

Day five of asking for Marley's talk in the Leafs hour. 12 of the Marley's that played last night played for the Leafs this year at some point. What did you got? They won five nothing. It's amazing the difference. about how guys look. You know what they're going to get over a walk. My pen blew up.

Do you need a new one? I just gave you that pen. It's just pieces everywhere right now. It was great. Like I just, you know, you go down there and Pesetta all of a sudden is like, looks like the best power forward in the league and Bo Gruz buzzing and Jacob Quillan's mixing it up with everybody. And it was interesting to see Cowan in that, in that context.

I would say that guys were kind of leaning on him a little bit. and sort of letting him know that he's the star that's coming down. You know, it's just doing HL things to him. But he was playing well. A guy named Letary, Vinny Letary. Yeah. He scored a hat trick, went bar down with the clapper. It was fun.

My, was he an ex-Dallas star where he, I don't even know where he came. No, Detroit, maybe. Yeah. I don't know. Wasn't there a bit of a bidding war or something with this guy? Yeah. Anyways, he, a puck was going on his own.

He jumped up in the air, caught it, set it down, set it down, and went bar down with a clapper. Yeah, Laterie is, is, is, 31 years old. He looks like it in that week. So where's his history? Yeah, so we got Anaheim Ducks, New York Rangers, Ducks.

Boston Bruins, Minnesota Wild. A bit of a suitcase. Yeah, University of Minnesota guy. Your boy Murmus was out there. Oh, Mirm Dogs back. Top pair out there. He was so good for them before you got kneed by someone. Yeah, and Villeneuve looks like, you know,

Prime Eric Carlson down there. Like, it's just amazing the difference. I had fun. So, what I'm a lot of. I'm really interested in is like no Leafs in the playoffs here Marley's are in the play

was there a vibe? Was there like a feeling like we're getting we're in playoff hockey? Hey Toronto, you still have playoff hockey here. Let's grab a Marley flag and put it on our car. You can go watch Cowan for the price

of American League ticket. No, I didn't get that sense. I don't want to be this guy. No, it wasn't bad. Just answer it honestly. It was a horrible crowd. It was a horrible crowd.

It was a horrible crowd. It was like half full. Not even. Not even. Folks, you can do better. Tickets are cheap. It's a lot of fun. It's a league.

This is a Leafs town. But like there's hockey. But I hate that. The games are so good. You know, it's bothering. There's junior hockey in Mississauga and 600 people go. Like it just. You know what else there is?

NBA playoffs. Like I got no vibe for the Raptors. They're going to get wallpaper. They are. Yeah. But they're still in the playoffs. But no one cares. Nobody cares anymore, eh?

If you don't, if fan bases don't think that their team has a chance in the playoffs, they bail on them. NBA is so different. You have to. to have a primo guy to have a chance. And Brandon Ingram is not. I love it. Rastock.

On the level of those guys. Yeah. He buried his coach and then missed every shot. Yeah. Not great. Yeah, nice one two punch there. So what are we left in the city with GM flags now? No, no, Js are going to come around.

Jays are coming back home tomorrow night. They're playing the Guardian. People will be fired up with that. You get a buzz back. Once they get all their pitching back, they're going to go on an 8 to 12 game winning streak at some point this season and get themselves right back in it. I promise you that. Fuck it.

I just wanted to say the one thing about what you mentioned to Cowan getting picked on. My dad always said he went down after playing for the Islanders for a year or two that six foot four, 21-year-old guy who's been in the NHL, people tried to bully him. And he said he was forced to kind of learn there to stand up for himself, punch back, have that confidence. Everybody should play in the minors. He said it was the best thing for him. And it's not just to make you tougher. It's like humility, carry your own bag.

Yeah. Sit on the back of a bus, double up, all of it. And he's not afraid to mix it up. giving it right back and he's getting in on the forecheck. He looked good. He looked big there, I will say. After like 12 years in the NHL, Brooks Light got sent down to the Toronto Marley's.

Probably not great. Not great. And after the game, there's like a dozen pizzas on the bus for the boys because that's what you eat in the minor before you travel, you know, back on a bus or whatever. And he took the pizzas off the bus and gave them to like fans that were around the bus and was like, we're not eating that. Like, you know, that's, you know, it's not proper refueling for your bodies.

And all the team was like, what are you? doing, man. Give me my pepperoni pie. Like, get in the bus. What was the coach? Everyone was so rattled. That's unreal. And, like, no one was like, like, like, everyone was like, man, sit down.

Get our pizzas back. What was the name of the coach? We did it in Edmonton. We were like. Oh, Dallas Akins. Oh, he's like, fruit. No more donuts. And everyone is like, you don't get to make that call.

We're doing carrots. For Dallas. Yeah, I didn't go. Never been in the NFL since. Yeah, you can't. It's the donuts. You can't take away the writers. Take away the donuts and it's hard to get back in the league.

Speaking of Edminton. Oilers. Lost. Oilers lost. After Kevin Baxa came on and said, I think the series is going on. Yeah, well. Good read. It might be a reminder, too, that Edmonton needed the, like, the last week and a half to

solidify their spot. Well, and it doesn't just happen. Right. They didn't run away from Anaheim all season long in the Pacific Division. No. So it is close. And like if you're a Stanley Cup winning coach like Quinville, you're like, okay, well, we got to take away McDavid. Their power play is unbelievable.

We need to shut that down. Everything else I think we can hang. McDavid has no points through two games, does he? Yeah, zero. And the power play's over six. They can't even get set up all that well. And so you take away their strengths and all of a sudden it's a series. They asked Noblock about, you know, he kind of went off the ice a little awkwardly there.

And they asked him about injury if he was, something's wrong with him, said, I'm not going to give you an update, don't know anything. So, I mean, he talked after the game, McDavid said, I'm fine. So I don't know what's going on there. Let's play, let's play this clip from Knoblock on McDavid. And this kind of gets to something that Kipper's been talking about with him all year. Let's do Clip One Knoblock on McDavid, please, Derek. Absolutely.

I think he's putting a lot of pressure on himself. He wants a lot of, obviously he wants a team to do well. And he's a leader. And usually when we have success, he's a big part of that. And, you know, there's stretches during the season that he hasn't been the best player. You know, there's nights that he hasn't been outstanding. Doesn't happen very often. And, you know, I'm certain that he's going to find his game.

I'm not sure I would have gone down the path of reminding people when he wasn't very good. Not outstanding. I would have to shied away from that. He only had, checked another, 140 points again this year. You're going to win the heart trophy for the league's best player. I don't know how Oilers fans feel about, you know, I'm not in the day-to-day with Noblok. But this guy really doesn't blow me away, boys. No.

He really does. Like, I don't, you know, it's hard to see a guy in the media eye versus what he's like in the room. Like, you could never know. But does he go in there and give the barou-based? pre-blue speech where he's like, we're a good effing team. It's just, you know, I don't know. There's the expression that I often reference on this show, which is better to have to tame a tiger than paint stripes on a pussycat.

Yeah, yeah. And I do feel like the Oilers have the tiger part. Like, you know, they're desperate, passionate. You know, they have a lot of those guys. I wonder if knob-block's steadiness doesn't kind of help them and give them some longevity. They don't seem like a team that needs, you know, Her Brooks to go in there.

You're right. And it's gone back to back finals with the helm. So like, I'm not. You know, experienced huge success and failure all with him and it's. I'm not criticizing him as a coach. It's just every time I hear I'm talking like,

oh my God. I know. I feel this. A bit of a dragman. We had him on our show. And I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, it was nice of him to come on. Really nice of him to come on.

But it's not our most electric segment of all time. I don't, do you guys think a coach needs to have a touch more fire here and that? Like, he's never done one thing in a media. He got them to the finals without that fire. Yeah. But to me, it's just not whether or not he has enough fire or not. I just look at this lineup and, you know,

Knoblock also reminded me that when he's not the best player on the ice, right? When he's not outstanding, what's the rest of your team doing? And that's like, are they really prepared? can they truly hold the fort for this guy when he isn't scoring 2.7 points a night? And I think the answer is no. It's like McDavid, Drysidal, Bouchard will carry you guys on their backs or you don't have the team to do it. That's all that comment reminded me of. you know, if you pick three guys on any team in the NHL right now

and say your best three guys are not good, do you have enough? They'll all tell you no. Like, everyone needs their best guys to be their best guys. And in game one, it's Dickinson with two and captain with two, Samanski scores one last night. Connor Murphy scores one last night. Like, it's, you know, they've gotten these contributions from these guys in the first two games

and they get a bag of- Yeah, I mean, a couple of the goals that go in on Engram. You're like, oh, maybe could have used that one. but five. Is Jari time? No. Not driving the TJ? Not yet.

It's so over if they go to that guy. Really? You guys are just... Oh, no. He's a mess. Totally agree. He's a mess. He doesn't have...

To me, it's... You've got to be down now 3-1 to even consider it. Here's Pickard. Where is he? Is he with Bakersfield? Is he still in the org? Maybe he was backing up in Rochester last night.

I don't know. Jack Campbell around? I just look at that lineup and I go on any given night and Savoy's been pretty darn good. But he's just, he's just a kid who has to go play with the best player on the planet. $15 million player is now got a $850,000 player on his line. Brownie even mentioned that on our show, right? When he came on Mondays, like it's a huge series for, or huge playoff for Savoy. Why should it be a huge series for him?

The guy's just, you know, barely out of diapers. You're right. Why is it a big series? Now they need that guy to step up. How about just solidifying your spot in the NHL? Yeah. And it's a big ask. It's a big ask.

I'm looking at like a lot of the five on five numbers for these individual oilers. Like McDavid's still dominant. You know, like he's still taking. He has to be dominant. Yeah. But I think that's normal. He had his foot on the gas. Like the last two weeks, he was like,

unstoppable and he was a one-man band and it was going great for him and now you you're in a playoff situation pressure situation now he's a little off and he's frustrated already it's funny thinking back to like the Olympics in Canada and how when they needed a goal

against the U.S. it was just is McDavid going to score or not it's every team every team he's going to be on it's just it's the McDavid You got the best player in the world. Yeah, you're hammering that button. Again, again.

Like a rat at a lever hoping some food comes out. Like, McDavid, David, David. One more. One more, McDavid. And so I don't know how you avoid that when you have that option. And it's the same problem every time that you cannot load up to start a game, McDavid and Drysiddle. And then by the end of the night, you need them to play together and save you.

Yeah. And even their back end. here and Connor Murphy's come in and gave him and is given him some depth but like Jake Walman you you're you're hard pressed to find him 15 16 minutes the guy's making seven million dollars next year and for very many after and that guy has to be 21 22 minutes solid and you're hiding him at 15 16 minutes I'm not panicking. Neither am I at all.

But I think I think I said in our first picks, ducks and six. I think, yeah, it could be on to something about seven. But McDavid, almost serious injury last night, like they had a moment where it was like, yeah, this could be over. It flashes before your eyes. But that does remind me of those leafs years where it was like, if any of these guys are hurt, like, yeah, you're up 3-1 in Montreal, Tavarez is hurt.

See ya. Let's go. They may be in Anaheim, but long-term, you still. I don't know if they can go If they can go four rounds and win. Long haul. Anything could happen because that Vegas, Utah series is not entirely clear. Like, we can get a weird one.

All right. Let's go. Break. Yeah, let's go to Jason DeMeres. All right. Plenty more around the National Hockey League. Stick around. Real Cap room born. Hey, it's Matt Markeesie.

And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. The Fan Hockey Show on SportsNet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Caprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. All right, as promised, been on the show already. Now we're regular.

We have no money, though, Jason. No money to pay you. Is that okay? Yeah, that's why they pay me the medium bucks. Hey, thanks for joining us. great job on the NHL network. Most intriguing series for you so far. What do we start there?

Just one that you have your eye on. I mean, I wanted to say it's the first off, it's been an incredible start to the playoffs. I've never seen so much, I want to say physicality. You know, we can say fighting, but it's a lot of wrestling, but like how much buyin you have from, all the guys and how vicious it's been.

It's been really dirty, even I think more so than the last couple years. And maybe that's just like no Florida Panthers around. So everybody's like, oh, my God, we have a chance this year. But I'd say for me, the most intriguing so far, I have to say, I mean, I'm shocked that Pittsburgh's down 3-0. I didn't expect him to lay an egg this big and of this magnitude. And credit goes to Philly, Dan Vladar, Porter Martone, like this team looks great right now.

They look very structured. Ever since the Olympic break, they've, I know talking them kind of shifted a little bit of their defensive structure through the neutral zone. And they've frustrated the hell out of Pittsburgh. And this is an inch, now I don't know how far they'll go, but to me it's the most intriguing just to see, is this the way the penguins are going to go out is a sweep. Sid the kid, the year they had with Dan Mews. and it just seems like they've forgotten how to play hockey. Phillies just dominated so much. And then out west, it's got to be Dallas and Minnie.

It's just such a great series. If Minnie continues to play with fire and give Dallas this many power plays, I think they're going to be in trouble. I think they got to keep it five on five, even after what Felino said and they go out and take eight penalties. I know it's a high. There's a lot of emotionality and you're trying to play physical, but you've got to tow that line with Dallas.

because I think they're the better team five on five, but if you give them eight power plays, you're going to lose that game, nine times out of ten. So I think they got to really get back to the drawing board, but it's a great series. It's going to go seven. I can't imagine it,

not going seven. How great is Quinn Hughes and Brock Faber been? And then, you know, Matt Boldie on the Minnesota side, and then on Dallas, you look at Duchayne and Randen and kind of waking up and then Hayskin and coming off that knee injury. And I really played 43 minutes last night. So those are the two.

that have kind of caught my eye you know one Pittsburgh for just being so bad right now and forgetting their identity and then just the the how evenly matched Dallas and miniar Jason you know we're going to get to some other series but we happen to have you in our leaf hour and so this is a you're the perfect guy to have on to ask about this

because one name that's coming up often here right now for a potential GM job is John Chaka now his time is the GM of the coyotes overlapped exactly with your time with the coyotes. So wondering what you can tell us about what it was like, what he's like, what the word was around Chica and the job he did as a GM. Well, I just talked about this on my podcast too. And I liked John.

John brought me over from Florida. Believed in me. You know, he has an analytics lean to him. I think back then he may have leaned too heavily on it, but he was great to me. I don't have a bad thing to say about him. I, you know, in the times that he was there, and I know the unfortunate stuff that, you know,

he was kind of wrapped up in and, you know, spearheaded or whatever you want to call it, you know, that's all gone now and I think he paid his time. But, you know, he came in when, and he was there through Morello and, you know, Alex Morello came in. And, you know, we had that whole year before COVID where I told the story on the podcast is,

for my understanding was we were in first in the Pacific that year and we were playing great and we were getting around the deadline or before the deadline and we wanted to make a trade and Morello was his first year there and our team was humming and we had a trade kind of for Tyler Toffoli. We found out that Toffoli was coming and it's what we needed. We needed kind of a goal score and Toff was in L.A. at the time and we were like we were playing out. LA that night and we're like, oh my God, we're going to get to Foley. We're all fired up. We're like, dude, guys, like this is, this is exactly what we need. Our decor was stout. Kemper was in Nets was playing great.

You know, we'd Castle Keller, everybody was having a good year. And the Morello wanted to make a splash and went out and got Taylor Hall and basically circumvented the whole process. And I believe John and then we're like, no, we don't need Taylor Hall right now. And not to say Taylor Hall is not a great player. and a great veteran, but just for what we needed at that point, we needed a right winger that could score, put the puck in the net.

And he just kind of circumvented it. And then everything fell apart after that. We kind of lost a ton of games in a row because it just didn't fit. Like it wasn't anything Taylor did or our team did. Sometimes things don't fit. It just happens. But Chikes, like, had a good plan for us and kind of took the brunt of it. But that was kind of on the back of ownership from my understanding

and not John, but John had built something pretty good for what he had to work with in Arizona. And I think given Toronto and the fact that they will spend and they should spend because just that city as a whole deserves to have a team in the playoffs, year and in year are to be competitive. And I just think he could be a good guy to manage that. And I think it wouldn't be a bad guy to look at and take a deep dive on because I'm sure he's learned from his time away and he's a guy

that kind of toes the analytics line and I think now he was maybe ahead of his time and I think now that all the analytics is kind of caught up and it's really at the forefront of everything I could see him being somebody that gets a job one of these days

and and but yeah I think it's definitely a guy that I wouldn't be surprised makes it back in the league he's been trying now for a couple years and when he does I think he will do a good job if he surrounds himself with the right people. Other issues too, like just not just maybe the ownership dabbling in a trade, but like, were you involved with paychecks being late and just other things that maybe

would have challenged Chica in that situation? Still owed money. Yeah, no, yeah, blink twice if I'm still owed money. Yeah, listen, there was there was a lot surrounding that at that time. You know, it was a weird time in Arizona. and it's such a shame because I thought we did have a great group of guys and the coaching staff, everything had good symmetry and, sorry, good synergy. And John, I think, was willing to step back and kind of let us run it the way we saw it

and let the coaching staff, you know, operate by their own accord. He didn't really dabble too much. And now, listen, Bill Armstrong's coming and he's done a great job in Utah and before Arizona putting those pieces together. but a lot of those guys were John as well. And I do think that ownership, and we've seen it on a lot of franchises, ownership is just as important as the GM and just as important as the coach. It's top down.

It trickles down. And if you have an ownership that is maybe meddling too much, it can really hurt a franchise. And I think if it's in Arizona, that was really the case with the Morelos. And I think, you know, now that you see the ownership, with Ryan Smith and Utah and what they're doing and willing to spend. And it's unfortunate. You don't want to tell somebody that owns a hockey franchise,

hey, because I don't have the money to do it. If I did, I do it. But to say, hey, spend, spend, spend. But if you want to win, it's been proven that it's very hard to do it on a budget. And if you do do it, you might only get one crack at it. And then you're back to the bottom of the barrel. So it's something that you have to as a franchise. Just is what it is.

You got to pay, baby. And that's the only way you get the best out of the players and the best out of the organization as a whole. So hoping Toronto realizes that and really brings in just a good, you just need to set something up for the next. This can't be a Band-Aid. There needs to be a clear direction. And it needs to be something that if it's going to be a five-year rebuild

or seven-year or it's a retool, it's got to be clear-cut. The message has to be clear because the fan base there doesn't deserve to wait a long time, no matter how, you know, spoiled they've been with all these consecutive playoff years. I just think it needs to be quick. So they're going to have to spend and bring it in the right guy that's that has the clear vision, I think is the most important thing. Here they're talking about getting some, some of the most respected Maple Leafs of all time back involved with the organization.

Matt Sundin's name has been involved. Gary Roberts, Ty Domi, Nick Kepreos, I believe. you know, what are your thought? You got my vote. Don't believe everything you hear on this show. You got my vote. As long as you bring me in as an aide on the side, just the right hand. But the way you're speaking about Chika, man, you're up for president.

I better be. John Chike, if you're watching this, I know you are somewhere. Bring in your boy. Come on now. You know, how do you feel about guys that haven't been in management then kind of being involved. Like, these guys know the league. They've been around.

They have a sense for it. Like, there's no doubt that they can provide sort of, I guess, some guidance, right? Kipp's pretty comfortable with it. Yeah, in terms of culture, Jason. Like, I think there's a fine line with that because I agree with you on the culture. But again, you have to bring in guys that played

that are involved in the game. You can't just have kind of an ambassador. There's enough of those around. You need somebody that knows the league and really watches and is also a fan. Like there's a lot of guys in the superstars, legends of the game. And I'm not going to name names just because, listen, they've done amazing stuff in the sport when they're playing.

But it is very difficult to run a franchise and be a GM. You've got to love it. You've got to live it, breathe it. And you can't just mail it. in because, you know, you have a great career on hockey DB. Like you had a great career. You had a bunch of games. You won some cups because there's been guys in the league that have come and done,

try to be a GM and have great resumes. And it hasn't worked out because it doesn't always translate. And I just think that I do believe Toronto, I like seeing the movement of more players, ex players coming in because ones that know the game care, love it. You see some good guys around the league that that are in, you know, higher up positions as advisors and assistant GMs and they're doing great jobs or some that are struggling a little bit.

But I do think if you're going to bring in somebody that is from the old guard that is loved, beloved by fans, they have to know the game inside out. They can't just be beloved by fans and that's where it ends. Like they have to know the game,

be a part of it because if you're going to jump the line and you're not going to kind of do the grind of scouting and all sorts of things, that's fine. you've got to have a great, great sense of where you want the team to go and also being able to execute that vision because, again, at the end of the day, you know, your career is your career and it's great, but it doesn't always translate to being management and it's difficult

and it's not a job that is for the faint or harder for somebody that's going to do it, you know, half-assed. Yeah, no, I think that's, those are really great takes. appreciate that. Last one for me, just want to get your thoughts on the Edmonton Oilers losing a game to the Anaheim Ducks. I don't know where you sat on it. I kind of felt like this was going to be a five gamer for the Oilers, kind of a warm-up round of the get to the next one. We have Kevin Baxa. Come on yesterday and said he thought it could go seven. I mean, maybe I'm missing something here. You think this one's going to go the distance? I had it at six. It was my pick, I think. I had Oilers and six. I think, you know, as much as Q is, you know, just this amazing coach, veteran coach,

it's still a young group. I still think, you know, if Dostal played a great game last game, and I think the only thing that could hurt the Oilers is goaltending. And, you know, Conor Ingram, I think's got one of the worst goal saves above expected. and I thought the issue had kind of been ironed out. But, you know, Anaheim is very opportunistic. They got a lot of pure goal scores on that team. So I don't count it out at all.

And listen, if you were to tell me after two games, Connor McDavid has no points and Evan Bouchard has no points that kind of color me shocked. So I don't expect that to happen. I hope his injury isn't that bad. It didn't look good. The little tweak, maybe high ankle or his knee, but hopefully he's okay. But I just think that it's,

going to be a lot tougher than people think just because that division as a whole wasn't you know anaheim kind of limped into the playoffs but they were at one point one of the better teams and when they get streaky they're very good and they do have a lot of good leadership on that team so i wouldn't be surprised if they kind of took all of this you know all of us talking about them losing in five and six and is using that as fuel and you know as ex players you know when when everybody's counting you out. We guys read all that. Guys read all that.

They know you don't think Philly looked at every single thing about Pitt, Crosby's going to roll him over, young team, Philly stinks. And it's, and they're using that. Same thing with, with Anaheim.

So, and I'm sure Q's getting the most out of those guys right now. And he has been. You look at Cutter. Game one plays him 13 minutes because he wasn't going. We talked about it on the network. I'm like, that's a great move by him.

Hey, you've been great for us all year. you're a 40 goal score, but in the playoffs, you got to elevate your game. You got to go up another level. The mistakes are even more amplified. He does that, plays him 13 minutes, rolls with Terry and Carlson and those guys who kind of had a good game. And then what does he do, what was he do last night?

Two goals and assists. He plays 18 minutes and was all over the puck. And I'm like, that is the differentiator, I think, with the Zanaheim Ducks team is going to be can Q kind of keep pushing the buttons on these guys and these young guys. And can, you know, Edmonton take advantage of the chances that they're going to get because they're going to have to score four or five because you can't really trust what you got in the net. You know, no, no knock on Ingram or Jari, but just hasn't been proven to be good enough this season.

So they're going to have to make sure that they're capitalizing on their chances. And, and yeah, it's, it's, it's an intriguing series for me. and especially with Connor not having any points, but if you were to say and tell me that he has no points in two games and that it's one, one, I'd probably be happy if I'm in Edmonton or his fans because it's only a matter of time if he's not severely injured that he's going to have a night.

So, you know, I still have Edmonton. I refuse to bet against him anymore after they've burned me too many times. So because they just went to two cup runs and I didn't think they would the last few years. I think I think they'll figure it out. But yeah, it's, it's good on Anaheim. I think Anaheim's got a bright future. And I think this is just a, this is maybe a getting their feet wet.

And they're kind of taking the underdog world. But I think with what they have talent-wise, they're young guys. I mean, they're going to be good for the next five, six years. We're going to see a good little resurgence of those teams out in the Pacific. Not the Pacific, but out in California, Anaheim and San Jose. They just got a light. I love so much of what. they have and what they've built.

And listen, when you got Lucas Dostal there who struggled mightily down the stretch, but has game stealing capabilities against Connor Ingram that, Anjari, that, you know, their goals save above expected, some of the worst in the league. You could get interesting quick here. Yeah, it sure does, man. Great stuff as always, Jason. Really appreciate your time, pal. Thanks for doing this.

All right. I'll see you in Toronto for our meeting. Love it. Thanks so much, man. Look forward to. Mayor's future president of the Toronto Police. So I know we talked to Gillis and Chica. Is there a world for you, Gillis President Chica general manager?

Yes. And to be honest, I'd be good with that. I just want to happen. Yeah. I just, I don't, like, at this point with all these names, it doesn't matter to me. Is there to you? Well, let me put it to you this way. they have both been accused of being the smartest guys in the room.

Okay? Something I have never been accused of. But you also don't think you are. Here's the two scenarios for me if they come out in a press conference together. One, the Leafs make the playoffs next year. Two, they kill each other. Death. There's blood everywhere.

Someone's going down. Oh, boy. Someone will go down. As someone who is a co-host of a popular Leafs show, that sounds fantastic. Playoffs or management fights? Let's go. Playoffs and playoffs.

Okay, management fights then. Yeah. But I think everybody would agree that they be wise to announce a president. Yeah. And not go to the Sunny Mada, New Jersey. No, I think that's definitely my preference. I genuinely believe it's a big job. I'm not like, hey, do this because I want to see them spend money or whatever.

I just think there's a lot to keep tabs on. And I thought that that hurt Brad Tree Living, not having a sounding board last year on a day to day. Yep, totally. You know, Shanning, he was around on the daily with the Leafs in previous years. All right. You have DA in the next hour, talk about some of the Canadian stuff. Yeah, and we still got plenty to get into, including Crosby getting an embassery getting an embellishment penalty.

That's, okay, we'll save it for the national hour here, but... We've barely talked hockey so far. Boy, Muse went on the, on the podium and a few tears streaming down his face. All right.

We'll get into that. Jason Demers from the NHL Network. If you're just starting to follow us now, give it a download on Spotify. or Apple podcast. YouTube's out there.

Love the chat. How about a big thumbs up for Jason DeMeres? And by the way, Yassie L. Pueeg is going to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team in the Inter-County Baseball League next year. It's already May 10th, possible.

Yeah. There's a wealth of information on the real Kippin-Born show. Who's not thrilled about this? This is the most exciting news of the day. Bye-bye. David Amber in studio as we get set for a big night on Sportsnet, it's NHL hockey at its finest playoff hockey.