Real Kyper & Bourne - Keefe’s in the Lab, but Chemistry Is Lacking

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off the week by discussing a pair of Leafs wins over the weekend, the team lacking chemistry despite the wins, Matt Murray's statement game against his old squad in Ottawa, Calle Järnkrok's hot stretch and William Nylander's mini-slump. Leafs' radio colour analyst Jim Ralph joins the show (42:59) to discuss teams limping into the playoffs, Sheldon Keefe's lineup tinkering and the Leafs' defencemen he'd like to see on the postseason roster. Then, New York Islanders' winger Matt Martin calls in (1:05:27) ahead of his side's game against the Leafs tomorrow night. He discusses the Islanders' crunch down the stretch, Pierre Engvall's fit with the team, stories from his two years with the Leafs and shares his thoughts on the issue of obligatory fights after big hits. To close, Kyper, Justin and Sam discuss Rasmus Sandin's struggles in Washington, the dampened playoff race as of late and the 'puck-tail' on broadcasts and whether or not its a good thing for hockey.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Hope it was a good weekend by all. Got your hockey fill on the weekend. Hmm. Not the most compelling hockey down the stretch. The Leafs managed to win back-to-back games over Carolina and Ottawa on the weekend. Good effort by their goaltender, Matt Murray, stopping 48 of 52.

Yeah, 48 of however many they gave him. We'll hear the coach weigh in on that later. Overall, though, it just seems now in those last, what, 10, 12 games for some now, it looks hard to manufacture some real sense of urgency. And I include the Toronto Maple Leafs in that because we saw them find a way to get a win, thanks to Matt Murray, and we'll get into that more specifically but overall i mean where is where do you think the leafs are when it comes to how they want to approach these

last uh dozen games well you know a couple of wins is good i think that you know get the uh positive juices flowing for the uh the new guys and everyone who's kind of getting used to being a toronto maple leaf i i think the biggest thing is trying to figure out what's it going to look like. Like they brought in so many new pieces. It's a little like there's the exponential options now. Who plays with who? And do we have time to look at it all? And so going into playoffs, it's like, all right, what's our best look?

We don't know yet. We bring in Sammy McK mckee of course joining us uh david sisboomba derrick brandale derrick's not here it's tristan today oh it's tristan today derrick's off today i forgot to put that in the lineup i forgot until he that he was here until i walked in the room so oh hi why doesn't that surprise me at all with you well we like you're just straight into it today hey kip straight no what did you want no time for you know watching the ncaa basketball golf anything over the weekend or usual non-hockey minute we have but you're right into it i love it he's engaged today we got things to talk about i am for sure because uh i'm just i'm looking

around the league and this isn't just a Toronto Maple Leaf thing, but are there some teams now, and I want to get into this maybe a little later in more depth, but I'm just saying overall, we saw a team like the Leafs go into Ottawa. The storyline was Matt Murray. It didn't disappoint the storyline, but as far as just the overall feel of where this Leaf team is, Sammy, did you get a sense that, you know, it's going to be hard here to kind of manufacture?

I would have thought the battle still with Tampa Bay for home ice advantage would give Toronto a sense of urgency a little bit to look better say what you want to say say what you want to say you don't think the leafs have been good i don't think the leafs have been good yeah okay that's good i'm glad we got that out but why and this is where i may come back and take them off the hook a little bit right that are they tired are they just are they looking already to april 17th i know that in my day yeah the the sense of home ice advantage would be huge i just don't know if today's kids go hey listen we go in there we win game one it's it's back and we get home ice advantage all over again yeah why are we killing ourselves for this is there a part of that that's going on i don't think so i feel like the two best home ice teams in the nhl i think going back the last two years

is toronto and tampa like it's crucial and everyone goes well i lost game seven last year it's like well then i guess they're gonna lose every game ever like shut up sometimes you lose game seven fine fine, whatever. It matters to get home ice advantage, Kippy. I'm with you. That should be a motivating factor for them. But I see a lot of uncertainty. And again, I don't want to come back after two wins

and say they've been bad, but I just see a lot of uncertainty. Okay, so is that Sheldon's uncertainty on the line juggling and where everybody feels like their place is or their lane? Everything's up for grabs here in terms of ice time, possibly a power play position if you're Gustafson waiting in the wings. Give me your sense, Sammy.

I think a lot of people were concerned when they made the trades at the trade deadline about how many new guys they brought in. Yep. That there was going to be, you're like, oh, what are you going to do with the chemistry? What's it going to look like with all these new guys coming in? It's like, well, I think you're probably kind of seeing it. For sure.

And I don't think they made those trades to be better in the last 25 games of the season or however many were left after the trade deadline. I think they made those trades to be good in the last 25 games of the season or however many were left after the trade deadline i think they made those trades to be good in the playoffs and to be ramping up for the playoffs and playoff style guys like gun to their head they probably you know their analytics kind of look worse in the bottom half now they don't they're not as i don't know that just looks a little bit off but i think once the playoffs start the type of guys they got are going to be better than the guys they used to have so like a lot of people are pretty negative on the Leafs in terms of you know how they look in the bottom half their lineup i think it's kind of fair that they have

a whole new half of their lineup that has been playing together for two weeks or three weeks i'm not panicking about them they're winning games first of all that's all i'm seeing then yeah do you think well maybe well do you think that's all I'm seeing then. Yeah. Well, maybe. Do you think that's what it is, Kipper, or are you more worried? I think that it's a legitimate point for sure. That there's just a lot of turnover and they're trying to find a new chemistry. Yeah. You know, one thing that you and I talked about before the show, if I could just kind of preempt a question you were going to ask me.

Yes. Is, okay, Mr. Analytics. okay mr analytics yeah that's not my department what are the numbers suggesting since trade deadline where where the leafs analytically for for uh kyle dubas and his 50 uh members of the analytics department. Well, they've been the worst team in the league. No. 32nd. Yeah, pretty much. By high danger chances.

What are the biggest ones? Expected goals for and against. Okay. They are at the bottom of the pile and expected goals against since in the last nine games. That's going back to March 3rd or whatever deadline was.

And 31st or something like that. And this is at five on five expected goals four down to i don't know they're they're in the bottom five teams is that a you're you're the you're the expert here is that a big deal i believe if derrick brandeo would hear we're here he would play well it's not good you know it's uh it's a legitimate problem yeah it's a concern okay okay but before sam's a concern. Okay. Okay, but before Sammy jumps in. You're good. One more question.

Yes. Very technical one. Okay. Why? Yeah. That's a really, and I imagine that's what they're doing now. Why? What's going on?

You know, I think if you're someone who believes in play driving, like loved Engvall and Sandin, the toughness stuff doesn't matter. Engvall was a good guy at taking the puck from one end and playing at the other end uh sandin is pretty good at breaking pucks out and getting it going the other way you know that could be part of it the the guys they brought in are you know not skaters and puck movers the same way maybe to me it's chemistry i truly think what sam said made a lot of sense and i don't think it's bad chemistry it's figuring out what it's gonna be you know this is the first 10 games of this season what were the

leaves so four four and two they weren't awesome they sorted it out and kind of found an ad they're not the the worst team in the league so you know some of this stuff is going to bounce back and come around but it's much more likely that instead of being an elite puck possession team, they're now more of a middling one that needs to eliminate high quality chances and create high quality chances. Sammy, did you hear the man? I did. He said they miss Engvall.

No, I'd say certain people might say they do. I'm not one of them, by the way. Listen, I think if we're going to have the Engvall conversation, that part of it is definitely noticeable. I'm with Sammy on this one, JB. But I also do not miss him for one second because I think when it comes down to it, this is a regular season versus playoff conversation

that he's been excellent. Well, not excellent. Excellent is an extremely strong word for Pierre Engvall. But he's been excellent. Well, not excellent. Excellent's an extremely strong word for Baringville. But he's been good enough. Slightly better than 50%. He's been good enough in the bottom half of the lineup to be a useful guy. But when the lights have got brightest,

and it was a 17-game sample that he's had, he's got zero goals, and he kind of goes away in the playoffs. Brandon Hagel dropped his gloves and tried to fight him. He's keeping his powder dry to this year so they're they're trying to bet on the fact that the guys they brought in are more playoff type players and like i have to say i know those analytics like that brad may it's not good yeah but i do feel better at full strength about the bottom half of this least lineup the way it's presently constituted for sure that i did in years past and if i may um you know i'm working on some

i've got some you know the player and puck tracking stuff i'm working on some articles that i'm gonna be putting out on behalf of the nhl and aws like i've seen some player and puck tracking data and i don't know you know what I'm going to put out there I've got some articles coming on it but one of the things is that the Leafs haven't created many high quality chances the chances they have created are the best in the NHL they're not getting a ton of chances but they're getting grade triple-a looks which is exactly what i saw against a carolina yeah where carolina needs three quality chances yep to maybe score a goal the leafs get one and it's in the name they've created really good chances with this group they have they've got some guys who play in the inner slot a lot

you know it goes back to quantity versus quality and Barry Trotz's theory that the Islanders could go ahead and get outshot by 30. He didn't care. Just don't let him shoot from the top of the crease. Like, I mean, just a quick aside on that Carolina team. Like, how are they going to score enough to go deep in the playoffs now without...

Yeah, no Petrity, no Svechnikov. They just, they're going to have a tough... Yes. They're structured. They're a great, well-coached team. But when it comes down to it, they're gonna have yes they're structured they're a great well coached team but when it comes down to it they don't seem like they have the horses that are gonna be able to shoot in the net like the least interesting the worst two uh teams at creating quality chances like in terms of like the grade whatever it's uh calgary and carolina create the the lowest quality

of their chances so yeah carolina having some trouble creating great looks and you know could be there for the picking if a new york islanders team finishes in the first wild card spot not saying just saying what are we since the uh trade deadline like six games eight games nine yeah still a small sample size yeah and they've won most of them right what are they five three and one or something like that i don't know exactly what it is and they've won most of them right what are they five three and one or something like that i don't know exactly what it is but they've been pretty good so i listen i think the discourse has been quite hot about the leafs and the like the analytics like that stuff's not pretty but do you guys feel better about it this year than you did last year i think they're

different they could lose every game from here on in i like this team better than i've liked anything i've seen in recent history i agree have the advantage that if you go through numbers whether it's the ones on natural stat trick or sport logic or the nhl site the old bolts boys are reeling they're struggling they're middle of the pack and pretty much everything where they were elite at a number of things um obviously the special team's still good or their power play still good but okay we got uh our good friend jim ralph who's going to join us in about 35 minutes nice toronto maple leaf radio color analyst and in the second hour, Matt Martin. Remember that name? Yes, sir. Remember that big, tough, perfect fourth liner that the Leafs have been searching for ever since?

The nerds ran out of town. He's going to join us, New York Islander forward. He's done a terrific job since leaving for Long Island. Looking forward to a conversation with matt martin okay so what did we learn on the weekend when it came to the goaltending situation and matt murray we'll start with you jb ah you know that it's still there sometimes you know what i mean like he still can do it on occasion you know i don't know how often i trust him to do it over a large sample or stay healthy or whatever but nice to know when there's games where you know he can still do it yeah i'm the godfather three

on matt marie here i just when you thought i was out you pull me back in yeah i don't like he can look really solid and he can look he's just really technically sound and like you know he doesn't move around that great but he just looks like a he's got he has moments where he really tantalizes me and then there's the games where he looks bad he looks really bad and that's kind of the worst thing you want on your goal as long as he doesn't have to move around that much he's fine no it's just that's not that's the last thing you want in a goalie is extreme ups and downs yeah you would much prefer a more consistent thing but i don't think i'm taking too much away from saturday are you kippy well i think first and foremost let's give the guy credit

because he he went in there that was the game that he had to have played yeah to hold on to any thought at all that he could be in the lineup i'm not talking about starting that was like a saturday round where he shot 600 to stay in the tournament being in the lineup yeah and i think there was a couple of occasions already where he should have played against ottawa and didn't so you know the other side they were laughing at him if somehow some way he didn't find a way to play saturday. And not only that, he saved the game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Where does it go from here? How many more games do you want to see?

Samsonov, it's been well documented that his wife's having a baby, but there's a sense that he's not 100% healthy. What does that mean here? How do you carry on now the next dozen games? How many do you want him to have? Is this truly up for grabs still? Is there a possibility that the Leafs would still want the experience of a two-time Stanley Cup champion in game one against Tampa Bay?

I mean, hey, listen, they play four back-to-backs in their final 15 games they just played one of them you're gonna see was there 13 left you're gonna see matt murray get five minimum six probably probably six and seven i told you about a week and a half ago that he should see six or seven games well here you go there you go you called it i mean you know, I think I, in this show, you want to believe that the regular season holds greater meaning. And so Samsonov outplays Murray this year. He will win the crease. And, you know, in game one, at this point, it's almost impossible to say that Samsonov will not have had the better year,

but it's hockey. And you're going to play the guy who's playing well at the time of the game. And the games are a month away. Under a month now. Samsonov looked pretty good in his last start, didn't he? Looked really good. All right, I want to pick up this conversation after we hear from our first Kippers Clipper from Sheldon Keepe

on Matt Murray Saturday night. I'm sure it'll do lots for his confidence. It was good that he's busy. We've been talking about how he hasn't been busy enough in terms of the workload and even in the games he's played of late here. I think he's done a good job, but hasn't got enough of the perimeter-type shots to really get him engaged in the game and to get proper workload and to inflate his numbers at the same time.

So probably good for that. Somebody in the building here must have liked him. He must have been nice to that and i think he was somebody in the building here must have liked him he must have been nice to someone because i think he got about 10 10 bonus saves here tonight but uh you know you know with no no question they threw a lot at him a lot of traffic at the same time and he handled it really well i wonder if the bonus saves thing isn't to defend his team a little bit and be like we we didn't give up 50 to the Sens. Because that's, I mean, it looks bad to give 50 to the Sens. Is that why he says that?

I kind of agree with him. Then he got 10 freebies? I found myself looking at the shot counter multiple times that game and be like, geez, that seems a little juiced. No? Remember, it's somebody that's probably between the ages of 90 and 100 and got a free blazer counting. She's wearing Coke bottle frames.

Ah, there's another one. It's like, you know, who wants to volunteer from the home tonight? Mildred's in. They've never really. Give her the clicker. That's how it's been historically with the NHL office to your point Sam you look at the media

meals room someday and the office officials get to eat and it's like can someone get that person a plate can they carry that oh my god that's funny with all due respect thank you for your service thank you thank you can this is the part that would upset me if I'm Samsonov, is that.

What else can you do? Well, I've outplayed this guy all year. All year. No bad months. Tell me that it doesn't really matter and I may lose my game one start. Yeah. If he doesn't start game one let's say samson i was fine from here to the end of the year he's a 9 10 over the next seven games they win most of them

and he doesn't get to start in game one like he's not playing for the maple leafs next year right like that would piss you off looking for an opportunity prove you're the guy you gotta see how it all plays out is it a a one-game elimination they're playing? Well, I suppose you're right. Depends how that plays out. Their hope is to play multiple of these, like to winning 16 of them, potentially. Ideally.

Think about the scenario, though. This is what a game one start in Matt Murray's favor will do to Samsonov's mentality. That to get back in that, I got to cheer against this guy right now. Yeah. And if I,

if he does well and I don't get in there, I've lost a major negotiation chip as a free agent this summer. It would definitely change your set of priorities. Tristan, this is where we need to... It's not good.

For Samsonov. It's not. Do you know what Samsonov's record is at home? Yeah, it stinks. Yeah, it's terrible. 18-2-2. No, no. Samsonov.

At home, he's terrific terrific and on the road a 6 6 and 1 on the road yeah 18 2 and 2 at home how are you not going to start that guy at home in game one i i like the home road split just straight up play the play the numbers you know what i don't mind that win i don't mind that yeah game one win yeah no game one win if it's in toronto back-to-back Sammy, you go down to Tampa, back-to-back. You go Murray game three? Yeah.

Love that move. Oh, man. It's your starter until he loses the net. That's what the playoffs are about. You don't mess with a good thing. I agree. I mean, it's going to be the most interesting, most dramatic situation to watch.

It feels like Matt Murray having another year, knowing they like him, is like less fragile. I don't mean as a body. I mean, emotionally fragile. Like he's got less at stake here maybe. For Samsonov, this matters a great deal. It is a fascinating case study right now. I don't think it matters.

I think you guys are overthinking it what's that that's just like yeah he's gonna play samsonov's net there's no way he doesn't play game one if he's crappy game one probably doesn't start he's gonna really stink from here on end to finish the season out to lose all the chips that he's gained at the table you guys are wrong if he's 905 over the next seven games and Murray's 9-15, you're going to put the 9-0-5 in net for the last month? Yeah. I don't know.

I got to see the goals. I got to see the scenario. I don't care who really plays. Just as long as they're playing well. It doesn't matter. I think this is such a win now. You're not helping the conversation. You're not deepening it, super fan.

This is blowing it out of proportion. It's like, yeah. It's not. I think it is. I don't think it is. You have two. You have the option. Last year you had Jack Campbell and the ghosted whoever as a backup.

Who was the backup? I don't even remember. Who was the backup last year? Mrazic, maybe? Yeah, I guess. Probably was Mrazic. It's like you have no. Guess what?

If the guy stinks in the first game, you have another guy that you have some trust in. Okay, my last thought. If you think we're overthinking this, it's because they've overthought this. Yeah. Sheldon's desire to talk about Matt Murray's numbers after every game is fascinating to me.

They clearly want this guy to be successful. Yeah. Why wouldn't they? They'd want the goalie, one of the good goal guy to be successful. Yeah. Why wouldn't they? They'd want the goalie, one of the good goalies to be good. That's what they would like. All right, let's move off. We'll move off the goaltending and we'll get into a sniper of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Kelly Yarncroft. God, nice to see Matthews play with someone who can shoot it in the net for once. We recorded his eighth career multi-goal game, extending his point streak to four games three and three the leafs are 11 3 and 2 when he scores a goal this season this man is on fire matthew's talking about yarn croc's release one of the best releases he's seen just like getting praise on your shooting from steph curry um he also said that about Nick Robertson too oh Nick Robertson

has the best shot in the league you totally just punked my argument so true let's let's go to Sheldon on Yarncroft with Matthews yeah just outstanding and to me he's been great all season but it seems like it's gone to another level um you know Yarny's moved around and played with different people throughout the season and played different positions. Hasn't spent a lot of time with Austin. And that's something we wanted to get a look at. And he's been terrific, both in his own play and what he's generating, but also how he's facilitating for his line mates, Austin in particular. So it was something we wanted to continue with here today.

Austin felt strongly about continuing with it as well. And both those guys I thought were terrific he's got rewarded for it it's no question he's got a good shot yeah he can shoot it it's crazy that he's only scored 17 goals as a career high this is his career high which you know he's presumably always shot the puck pretty well his career high uh he's tied with 35 points. So he's at a career high in that too. I mean, has he ever played with these guys like this before in his life? He's been playing in Nashville. Yeah.

No, he's been a bottom six guy. That's what I mean. Which, listen, people think I'm like, I hate this guy. No, no, no. I don't know. I think he can be very valuable, but not in a fixed top three with Austin in the playoffs. And in short spurts, can he go there and have success? And can that success go from half a period to a whole game to two games? Maybe three, yes. But as a permanent fixture, he is not an answer for me.

Yeah. In the top three or the top five in your roster. The only way that you seem to like their top six, which I am fine with and agree with, is O'Reilly being in the top six with a super line of sorts because that's the only way you push out Kerfoot or Yarncroft or whoever from being a permanent top six guy it's the only way to do it depending on I think even Matthew Nyes you have to be married to the fact that a Kerfoot will have to come in and just hold the spot there because there just isn't enough balance and that's if you want to go matthews

tavaris and ori o'reilly yeah in a in2-3, which I think ultimately is still maybe the way to go. Like Matthews, Marner, Bunting is that they've been together a ton. Yes. And then Tavares, O'Reilly, Nylander. You know, those are obviously the most they can load up their six. And then your third line is something like Yarncroft, Kerfoot, Lafferty, or something like that. Yeah, and if something goes stale, you want to change it up, throw Yarncroft down there.

The good news is that you've had enough sample sizes, if you're Sheldon Keefe, to feel comfortable that it's had success already. It's a comfort zone for Sheldon, and it's also one for Austin. It's not a hard sell. I'm going to put you with Yarncroft tonight because as Sheldon has already alluded to, Austin's fully on board.

If anything, all it just proved was that this was more Matthew's call than it was even Sheldon's call. You know what? That also proves to me though, that sometimes there's value in a guy who just, you know what he's going to do and be. And Zach Hyman was that for a long time where it was like,

you know what you're going to get. And you know, that is yarn crock. I think you have a pretty good sense of, of he's a reliable night in night out guy. He is, but just like the scenario is not really a guy that's a reliable night in night out guy he is but just like the scenario is not really a guy that's going to go in the

corner fight for a puck and win those type of battles he might be a lot more comfortable with Austin in the corners battling it out and him sitting at the top of the circles waiting for the one timer that's not going to work and ultimately is that a consistent look you want to see moving forward?

If he's the shooter. Last time I checked, 34 wanted to be a shooter on that line. Yeah. I mean, I like Jaron Kroc in battles. I think he's pretty good at coming out with pucks, but he's not Zach Hyman to the point that I made previously. We do have other quotes from Keith on stars on different lines and on Nylander.

Okay. And one last thought before we get to that. And it's a good lead for me because that's where I wanted to take you. Okay. That, you know, for every action, there's a reaction. And Yarncroft this week is totally Sheldon's flavor of the week. Yeah. But it comes at a cost.

And that cost is that you've lost a little a bit of willie here and as good as yarn croc is and as great as of a shooter he looks willie has stopped looking like a shooter and a flavor of the week for for uh for sheldon and don't look now but he may have like two goals in his last 10 or 11 games but see that's on old bill himself that's not on sheldon for liking yarn crock or giving yarn crock opportunities that's you know that's willie's job to keep himself relevant and scoring and you know wanting them to keep him as i know that sounds good on theory but you're the coach you got to get that guy going ultimately and well

i think sheldon did his best if we can hear the willie clip on uh given neilander another little poke yes more i just find you know and he and i've talked about this you know i just find the puck sitting as sticky as food aren't moving to the same degrees on attacking. There's a lot more perimeter, a lot more just sort of getting rid of the puck. I want him to hang on to it. I want him to challenge. I want him to be on the attack. I want to see lots of pace from him. That's when he's at his best.

So that's really it. Just get back to doing that. It's been too long now since we've seen that consistently from him. But as we've seen through most of the season, it's certainly there. Biggest line for me has been too long now. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the first thing I looked at Saturday night is who had more minutes

Saturday night, Yarncroft or Willie? Yarncroft? You edged him out? Yeah, you edge him out. I get Willie's responsibility is to look in the mirror, but that shouldn't happen. Unless you're trying to send a message to Willie and wake him up. Yeah.

Right? But at some point, you've got to switch it you're gonna have to if you're sheldon you want to get ready for the playoffs if it comes at pulling yarn crock a little bit back to prop up willie it's gonna happen eventually you just can't keep going with this type of look eventually you gotta have to yeah get willie going again right now his lines were in practice today yarn crock matthews kerfoot bunting tavarez marner mcmahon lafferty kneelander yeah and ask andre's can't tell me when willie walks in the room and he sees that line how's he feeling a little more like hey a little more tough love do we have your attention now yes but i mean we can't i'm not

going to talk to both sides here and say that we want keith to send messages to guys and then when he actually does it we can't be like i need to play him more like this is what he's been he's been bad recently and he kind of deserves a demotion and he did it and i think it's probably good and biting took that uh tough love too a little You know, and it hasn't been a ton of it this year. But I agree that like, you know, I think there's a season for coaching. And you coach and coach and coach. And maybe, you know, guys like you, don't like you, whatever. But in the last few weeks of the season, everyone should feel like things are going good.

You know, like maybe not yet. Yeah. But I do think that there's a time where you you know you make willie feel important and all that but this is it if you only get willie the best of willie after you give him a little cuff in the ears well save the cuff for late in the season going into playoffs that you're giving him a little come on yeah he's going trying to score 40 goals this year i don't care yeah who cares he's got fun he does though i know he does you think these guys are so fragile their egos i just i'm just giving you a sense of the room

and the dynamic of these guys and their expectations are don't mess with my ice time i need my cookies i'm going after a new contract these are real yeah it's real in a room i understand that so i also understand something to keep an eye on that's all yeah i got zero concern for willie he avoided this all year yeah not bad like we're in march now but it comes it comes at the time where the bingo-bangle balls are out, too. Yeah, I mean, everyone's all over the map. Yeah, and listen, like, I'm not going to kill the guy for having it be the time of year here where, listen, I think there's a lot of malaise with just the end of this season.

I think there are people trying to stay healthy people trying to like just figure out where their spot is in the lineup honestly to the playoff races are dead now dead i mean florida is making it interesting with pittsburgh and the islanders and that's the only one like you can talk you could talk me into you know calgary trying to catch winnipeg yeah but they're five points back or no that's a lie they're four points back four points back in the game in hand now so but no i just i think i think there's a lot of factors for a lot of guys right now and willie's just going through a down stretch and i do i do feel like willie is the only one of the big four that Keefe will really kind of pick on.

Do you know what I mean? Like in terms of sending messages to him and feeling like he's the type of guy to do it, he hasn't had to do this yet with him this year. And he's finally had to do it. If we got through a full year without a you-know-what whack for Willie, it would have been a miracle. Like it just happens eventually, and you have to be happy that it didn't happen more than this. I don't think it's the end of the world with him. All right.

Fair enough. Were you on the juggling less of a concern for the blue line? Start with you, Sammy. I think I would like them to get some pairs settled here. I think that's more important to me. But I think, you I think they're mixing Shen in and out now. It looks like it's going to be Gio and Hall, McCabe

Lilligren. Rhodey mispracticed today because he blocked a shot. I like Gustafson on Friday night. They do have some options here, but they are going to have to have tough conversations. That part of it's going to be hard. You want to get a thought in before we go to Sheldon on his rotation of his D?'s let sheldon do it do we get uh well to be

honest we've had a discussion with all of our defense here leading into this weekend and just going down the stretch just to let them know there's going to be times where where guys are going to get to get time off and whether it's bumps and bruises or rest or workload that guys are going to be uh coming out to give them some time. And, you know, while we're healthy here, we want to keep everybody involved. So the work was done in advance of that, and Gio took it really well. As did Gustafson, because to me, Gustafson's coming off of his best game. Last night, our plan going in was to have him come out today. We decided to stay with that, but it was tough because he played well.

But like I said, we have had the conversation with all of our D that situations like this will come up. I found it interesting that he had to sneak in and Gio took it really well. Like, there's no furniture being thrown around. He handled it like a pro. That's good.

So what are your thoughts? Well, it's really going to come down to, I guess, Hall, Gustafson, and... Shen. Shen. And Lillie. And Lillie. Yeah.

If you need muscle in your lineup and you need a presence in front of your goaltender which luke shen has shown more of than we've seen in years yes in front of that seems like every time anyone wants to look sideways at your goalie or anyone else on the team luke's there which i totally welcome yes but i think to be fair though there's a flip side of that conversation in terms of how he like doesn't defend the blue line very well i find i love the guy and i'm so happy no no there's a price to pay to have him in the lineup but there's a couple plays a game where i'm like oh boy well the foot speed well and that's his gaps are so bad because he doesn't want to get walked why yes so like he just like allows guys into the zone.

I probably shouldn't back away from my mind. Yeah. I guess you have sort of a personnel thing where with Hull, Lilligren, Gustafson, Shin, where it's like, depending on what you want, I guess you can put in who you like there. But I have no sense who are the front runners to be in, like who's going to play the most of those four guys against tampa and part of that is because i don't know what they think of lilligren you know like i know the use they see of hall i know what they think of shen gustafson i'm a

little unclear and lilligren i'm a little unclear on exactly how they feel about those guys i think lilligran has dipped a bit recently do you guys agree well yes yes what seemed to be a fixture is no longer a fixture yes but he was a part of that sandin pair that you know we talk about advanced stats they drove play all the time 55 of shots went the right way for the least for those guys out there you know he's a part of that they're struggling moving the puck up the rink you know it depends how you feel about what you prioritize from your defenseman i just think it's uh maybe a tougher pill to swallow for these guys than it is say you know a bottom six forward that when i play i'm playing like 19 20 minutes for you guys but and then i go from that to press box yeah like that's a for

justin hall that's a very confusing message i'd be 20 or zero i'd be pissed yeah right yeah but i i you know at the same time i do think these guys probably see all the guys there they understand what the team is trying to do this year with the deep run and needing d-man and all that like there would have to be some understanding on their part for sure yeah but but they better win right because it's all like it sounds like everybody's got a great game plan as they say as tyson uh mike tyson reminders till you get punched in the nose yeah and not picking the right lineup in game one has these guys coming back and saying okay do the right thing you're out i'm in and what's interesting too is like luke shen is not keith and dubas's identity that's not the

guy that they have no no it's by default right it's what somebody told you go get some toughness yeah so i find it you know you want to be who you are and who you've had all your success with so it's really hard for me to think they're going to say, Lilligren, you're watching because we need to bang a little bit more. But I'm curious to see how committed they are to this new physical aspect that they've tried to acquire. I'll just say this. Jake McCabe was excellent on Saturday night. Good hockey player.

I've been very happy with his contributions. He has come in and he's... As advertised. he he has come in and he's as advertised as advertised and and absolutely filled the void of good jake muzzin oh you think so oh yeah yeah yeah for me anyways for sure the minutes that he logs yeah and listen i mean still we need more of a sample size in big games you know unfortunately he's gonna end up playing 500 games after the regular season's over and not have one big playoff game under his belt and you know jake was a season stanley cup champion i mean he's he was a great shutdown guy mccabe still has to go and do it

right but the presence is there for a guy that can make the opposition, keep their head up in the neutral zone, win battles in his own zone. Just at least look sideways. It's yeah. It's not a concern anymore. You know, I also feel like with Muzzin,

Muzzin had sneaky offensive upside. Like he was actually could do some things. McCabe does too. He seems to jump up, be involved, got his first goal. They never put Jake in a position to do that. Muzzin. Muzzin, yes. Jake Muzzin.

Yeah. He had actually a good shot too. Yeah. He could hammer the puck. Yeah, you're right. Curious because I see McCabe up in the play a lot. Sorry. I'm just saying on McCabe on Saturday night, he had a goal, their first goal.

He was a plus three in that schmozzle of of a hockey game he had two shots on goal three block shots played 23 minutes and 49 seconds led the team had two minutes and six seconds of shorthanded time on ice and it's a quality 23 it's not like dragging his his uh justin hall 23 his tongue you know and i get we i know we got to go to ralphie but i would be remiss if i didn't ask you guys about your thoughts on riley this weekend oh yeah better better yeah not just the points but like you know up in the play a little bit and i thought he made good puck decisions yeah listen uh it's a win that you're you're not talking about uh him getting caught up on the up up ice uh a giveaway uh poor decisions yeah it's good he's cleaning some things up before we go to break i do want to

mention that one thing the leafs are going to have to do is have a pair to play against tampa bay's best guys kucherov point so you have to pick who's going to play against them not riley and uh brody well they got riley paired with Gustafson for tomorrow. I think that's probably because Brody missed. Do you think so? Yeah. But still. But I almost don't hate the idea of saying, Riley,

you're not going to be on the defensive shutdown pair. Like, we're going to do, you know, McCabe and Hall or Gio and, you know, Shen or whatever they choose. Not Shen. But, you know, I don't hate the idea of Riley not being on the pair that plays the best line so i think we can talk about the bottom half this lineup and all the additions and all everything and their analytics and whatever but i think the least would be really happy about

austin matthews and morgan riley both looking like themselves heading towards the playoffs over almost anything else no yes those are true positives yes okay all right we uh blew the uh right past the third base stop sign we did after the break jim ralph matt murray's performance saturday night the line juggling so much more on real kipper and born back after these words unrivaled insight analysis and opinions on all things blue jays blair and barker be sure to subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 the van all right to make sense of it, let's welcome in our next guest

because we did a horse crap job of doing it in the first 40 minutes of our show. Ralphie, what's going on? Oh. I was talking to him. Me and Ralphie are buds, so I was talking to him. Sorry. My bad. Wait, do we have Ralphie?

You know what the problem is, eh? We got a couple. Which one? He's going to take a break soon, and he's already checked out he's gone he's gone the body's still here yeah sammy's got a golf trip on the horizon he's he's on the first tee right now i know i'm james all right ralphie jim ralph take two makes sense for us ralphie, because we didn't do a very good job in the first block. But before we get into Matt Murray and a few other things, just your overall sense of these last 12 games.

And I'm not just speaking Leafs, but I'll include them in all of this. But just, I don't know, some teams are limping going into this stretch here. Yeah, and Tampa is one of them. I watched the Tampa game yesterday and they get a 2-0 lead and one characteristic of Vasilevsky and Tampa to blow that and lose to New Jersey, although they

won the two games in New Jersey earlier. So I think they're a curious team to watch if in fact they can turn it on. You know, a team that's been to the Stanley Cup Finals three years in a row. I think they're a curious team to watch if, in fact, they can turn it on. A team that's been to the Seneca Finals three years in a row, I don't think you look at it as being a favorable matchup, but they don't seem to be quite as consistent as they have been in other years. We'll see if that translates into the postseason.

Ralphie, how do you feel about the line and deep air schmazzles? Like, I don't know who plays with who or what's going on necessarily. Like, is it too much tinkering or are they just appropriately using the time they have to figure out what's best? Yeah, I think so, Borny. I think as far as, you know, just trying to figure out. I mean, Schellenke said that, you know, before the Ryan O'Reilly injury that he was basically going into the lab

and he was going to experiment and try different combinations to find the right chemistry. And obviously, up front, I think it's been more of a challenge because you have a lot of depth on the blue line. But I think you saw when O'Reilly came out of the lineup, there's really not a lot of depth up front, and that might be a concern. It looks like Atari's going to be good to go tomorrow,

but all of a sudden when you see Wayne Simmons back in the lineup and Bobby McMahon called up, you're saying, all right, they may not be as deep in the forward position as they are on the blue line, and that's probably one of the concerns for me is, you know, getting your top six ready and, you know, finding out what you've got up front or do they go, you know, what is it, 11 and 7 in the postseason.

Part of finding out, Ralphie, is this new chemistry between Yarncroft and Austin Matthews. Would you be comfortable with Yarncroft riding shotgun with Matthews in game one versus Tampa? Who's on the other side, Kip? Marner. Okay, then yes.

It could be me and you to be okay with that line, right? Kiprios out of retirement. Yeah. I'll take the Bible for 600. Oh, I will say this. I heard you guys talking about the goaltenders and who would start. And I'm not saying I'm angry with who I heard, but I'm disappointed. Oh, tell us why. Well, you're talking about home and away and who's better than that.

And I think you're missing the point of stats and analytics. Because Matt Murray's best games have been on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Sundays. So you can't play him on a Saturday where he's got, I think, 3.48 goals against an 891 save percentage. So he's out of the mix there. And, yeah, I just thought you should have delved into it a little deeper. Maybe Wednesdays is two for one night? Yeah, Wednesday afternoons.

Hang on. But Jarnkrok, he can shoot the puck. how is this guy only managed 15 goals a year in his career i guess part of it is he wasn't playing with austin matthews you know before uh before coming over but we even saw him pre-season he had a couple of one-timers from the right face off circle it was just bullets so it, you know, he's always been sort of one of those tweener guys, right? Like sort of a third line guy that can score the odd goal, but be responsible defensively. He can be a little bit physical.

So, you know, it might be just more opportunity because he still missed, what, seven or eight games with an injury and has managed to already score, you know, equal a career high in goals. So it might be more opportunity than anything else. You know, on the backside, Sheldon talked about explaining to all the defensemen, everyone's going to get a bit of a rest here. We got a lot of guys we like. We're trying to get everyone in.

And I was saying, I can't tell how they feel about Lilligren or Gustafson yet. Like if they really like guys that move the puck or if they really are all in on this newer, more physical team. What are your thoughts on Lilligren, Gustafsson and the likelihood of them being in the lineup in playoffs? Well, I mean, that's a tough call, Brian, because we're sitting watching Saturday night, McCabe and Luke Shenn kill penalties,

and you're going, yeah, you kind of like that, don't you? Sure do. When it comes to defending. So, you know, I think I guess I look more at the other guys where you're saying who you definitely want in the lineup. And obviously Morgan Riley

is on that list. Giordano is on that list. And then I would have McCabe and Shen definitely on the list. So now you go on that list. And then I would have McCabe and Shen definitely on the list. So now you go to the other two. Do you want the puck-moving guys? Do you want sort of, you know, Justin Hall's a bit of a hybrid? You know, I don't know if it is something that they're just going to monitor game by game or if there is a plan to maybe have a little more toughness

and physicality over the skilled guys. I think it's going to be a pretty interesting decision. Is it a tough decision to weigh in the toughness and the ability to clean out the front of the net with Luke Shen? It's apparent, though, that he won't come close to the 17 minutes he averaged in Vancouver, but where's that fine line for you and Luke and perhaps his foot speed and Justin mentioned

earlier in the show maybe gap control yeah I can just speak to her from a goalie standpoint you want Shannon McCabe in front of you you want guys that are going to cut guys down in front and I mean I think we've seen probably more scrums since McCabe and Shen have come in after whistles

than we saw in the first part of the season. No, no, the last three years. Yeah. Or it might go a little further than that. But it's, you know, I just think that, you know, that's the time that you want the Warriors. And, you know, you want that physical play and that snarliness and guys to maybe have to have their head up coming over the line

or going to the front of the net. That's just my personal preference. I've played with guys throughout the years that were like that, that they weren't the most skilled. But, boy, you loved them blocking shots and cleaning out the front of the net when there was any kind of scoring chance against you. Now, obviously with my career, I didn't play with enough of them, but you know,

I just liked the guys that I got to play with. There you go. You know, looking at the way Sheldon Keith has talked about his players, you know, he will defend Matt Murray to the end of the earth. There are just certain guys that he will go to bat for repeatedly. But old Willie Nylander seems to take the old cuff upside the ears. Took another one today from Sheldon.

Do you have any problem with him going at a guy who's got, you know, 80 points, 35 goals here, having a pretty good season? Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, the numbers sort of back up what Keith said today. And I think Nylander scored, what, twice in the last 10? Yeah. You know, so he's just sort of gone through a little bit of a lull. But I think what hurt Nylander was when Pierre Engvall got traded. Do you?

I don't believe you. Where's it going to go? I'm based on a coach not criticizing the goaltenders. I mean, goaltenders, I think Murray's given up six games in a row, four goals against. But, you know, I think I'd rather have a coach back me up than point out the obvious that, you know, you should have had that one that went 40 feet in the air over your head.

When it comes to Sheldon, youon, outside of not losing home ice advantage, where would you prioritize where he might be thinking of in the next dozen games? Yeah, I think it's like you said. He's just trying to get everybody ready. And I think the balancing act is to have guys not only ready, but somewhat happy.

And I don't think anybody's going to be happy sitting out game one. So I don't, you know, I think the big thing is to get everybody to buy in, be ready, your number might be up. And if, in fact, they're capable of going on a long run, they're going to need everyone on deck at a certain point.

So I think that's going to be the balancing act. And once you get Ryan O'Reilly back, if you get him back to the last week of the season, I think that's going to be really the telling point of what's going to be on the ice for game one. Do you think they should get, well, if they can get to a situation where they could rest some guys,

are you in favor of guys sitting out hockey and resting a whole bunch? I know Giordano said he doesn't like to do it. Some guys want to keep going, but boy, it should be nice to go into playoffs with some fresh John Tavares or even a Matthews and Marner. Don't you think?

Marner's played a lot of hockey in the last little bit. Yeah, even, I mean, the Carolina game, what, he was 29-30, something like that. Is that good? Which, yeah, I don't think you want to be playing, you know, your stars that much. So I can certainly see it, you know, down the last week of the season if the games aren't going to be meaningful.

But you're right, guys. But you're right, guys. But you're right. I mean, you know, some guys respond better to time off and other guys feel like they lose a little bit of rhythm. So, you know, that might be, you know, pretty long conversations with some of your star guys as to whether they're in favor of it or not. I mean, I don't think you can with uh the mindset that we don't want guys to get hurt because i think that's that's when you start to get into trouble but i think it's

probably those will be conversations with the individuals um you know especially the forward guys ralphie just your thoughts on on morgan riley and uh the last few games, the goals that he's been able to put to shoot in the net here, less is more for Morgan these last few games? Yeah, and yet you still see him jump up into play at the right time. I think the last time I was on, we talked about it, that it seemed to be decision-making is really the key to his game. And we haven't seen him as frequently try to jump up or, you know, getting caught on bad pinches.

His strength really seems to be joining the rush offensively, not the pinch and not the gamble, but being able to read the play and join the rush and contribute to the offense that way. Ralph, you have a very important question. I know this is just a crucial one, of course. Samsonov has a kid coming any day now. Shen just had a kid.

Cloth or disposable. No, someone else. Someone else on the team is having a kid. Lafferty's having a kid. Did you and your wife time the kids to not arrive at playoff time? Am I crazy that guys used to do that? I waited until my career was over. Did you?

Yeah. Okay, that's savvy. What are you, Captain? Yeah, I waited too. The only thing we planned was when she got full control of the house. Noted. Thank you for that very important question. Yeah. noted thank you for that very important question yeah well you know the um you know looking at the these guys that are kind of in and out

that have just had kids is there anything uh in terms of like preparation um you know that a team would do differently down a stretch like this knowing your opponent how would a team like the toronto maple leafs prepare for the tampa Lightning? Do you think they're doing video work on Tampa yet? When do they start looking at Tampa Bay and focusing on that preparation? Yeah, I mean I still think they go through the regular game by game

who your opponent is, trying to break down their penalty kill, their forecheck but I'm sure it's in the back of their mind. They know what they're up against and it's going to be interesting to see. They've got one game left in Tampa before the end of the season. And, I mean, wouldn't it be something if it wasn't that meaningful a game and all of a sudden Matthews, Marner, Tavares all get the night off

and a rest. I think that Greg Popovic, I think, did that once, didn't he, in the playoffs in the NBA where they had a big kind of a matchup that this could be an NBA final and he rusted all his big guys and pissed everybody off. So I think something like that would be sort of unique that it's like we're not showing our hand now. You mentioned the blown lead by Tampa versus New Jersey.

Have you seen enough from January to this point on Tampa to definitively say this is not the same team and this is by far the Leafs' best chance to slay the dragon? Yeah, again. I'll say. Or is it fool's gold? Last year with home ice was going to be the difference. And obviously, even though you get game seven at home,

it doesn't turn it around. You know, I still think you're wary of Vasilevsky, you know, because like I said, and this is in fairness to Sam Sinov and Matt Murray who have had some stellar moments for the Leafs this year. But other than, I mean, who would you be looking at going into a playoff series in the East where you would say, we have the edge and goal? You know, I think, you know, whether it's the Rangers or Carolina or Boston, I think, you know, the key to their success is it might not so much be that you need goaltenders to

steal a series or steal a game but nothing against it can hurt you you know just just solid and uh but vasilevsky i think is the one that scares you that um you know he's so good when he's on that he can be the difference in a game or a series so they've got the uh new york islanders tomorrow night um you know what are your thoughts on the islanders from what you've seen? This is a team fighting for a playoff spot, not maybe the most offensively dynamic. What's your take on what they're going to be dealing with tomorrow?

Yeah, when you just look at the numbers, they're kind of a bland team. And you've got Barzell out, and there's still sort of that holdover from Barry Cotts team. You've got Barzell out. There's still that holdover from Barry Cotts where it seems to be defense first and try to win the low-scoring games. I think it'll

be a test for the Leafs for sure. Yet, you look around the league from Ottawa to Buffalo, all these teams that were trying to get into a playoff spot that have just died down the stretch. It'll be interesting to see if the Islanders can hold on to that playoff spot and keep going.

But it really doesn't seem to matter, does it, that you look at these games and say, well, this should be a win for them. They need a more inferior opponent, and then it blows up in their face. So it'll be interesting to see, from my standpoint, more how the Islanders come out as opposed to the Leafs. I'll come to you, JB, on this as well,

but we'll get Ralphie's thoughts first. This will be multiple times now for a guy like John Tavares to go to the Island, but still got to be a little emotional for him still, right? Yeah, and I'm not being smart with this, because it's a different building. I think it's not quite the same. You don't say, this is where I used to park,

and this used to be my dressing room. I think that sort of help washes away the flood of memories coming back. Yeah, that's certainly an element I can see too. It's been a while now. I know it has. Let's see, five years here or something like that. But they haven't forgotten.

No, they have not. They'll never forget. They'll remind them again tomorrow night as well. Hey, Ralphie, thanks for doing this, man. I love coming on with you guys. Thanks, boys. Thanks, Ralphie. Jim Ralph. Color voice for Sportsnet

590, the fan, radio analyst. Yes, sir. No, it's going to be interesting tomorrow night. I don't think it'll ever leave. It's because he was such a fixture there. I get it. And time goes on, that it's because he was such a fixture there i i get it and time goes on but it's that one just seemed to be a little bit more personal i'm sure all the toronto fans would

feel really forgiving i like you know like they booed vince carter until last year like yeah that's good they should do this sports hate is okay you're allowed to hate guys and i would boo the hell out of john tavarez if i was an islanders fan too yeah you know he's just such a good important part of the community and the team for so long he gave his heart and soul to him oh those new yorkers don't care no they don't listen i'm acknowledging it's happening i'm just saying they're all wrong why that's all no they're not wrong no they're scorned them yeah okay it was it was a scorning all right we can't relitigate this just to pick up on on tampa before we go to break here yeah uh good team yeah i'm starting to pull away a little bit off of and i get it they can be a very good team but this is going on a little too long

right now do they have chernak back they do don't they did he did he get hurt last time oh god he gets hurt every other game i know i know the guy cannot and i'm really starting to say that that they miss palat and they miss mcdonough yeah that is not the same team without those two guys no it's not yeah i mean they haven't been good you worry you only worry because it's the leafs yes and yes a team like this has shown the capability to be like oh is it go time you know like they haven't prioritized winning the president's trophy in the last few years. They just kind of play until it's playoffs and then they beat you in seven games. I mean, they beat Florida so thoroughly. Florida won the president's trophy last year, then got dismantled by Tampa Bay, swept.

So you worry that it's like the second they want to be good i get it they can do it i know but they all of the things make them look not very good lately i ain't going there boys i know i ain't going there i will say what ralphie was talking about with the the toughness factor and going up against tampa and having guys that can clear the front of the net and with luke shen in the lineup or whatever. I'm not as worried about the speed factor against Tampa. I wouldn't say Tampa is the fastest team out there. Obviously, they have fast guys.

You look at Braden Point, one of the faster guys in the league. But, like, as a whole, it's not like New Jersey or something. Where New Jersey is such a fast team. Right, not a track meet team. Like, I think Shen is going to play a lot of games against Tampa. I really get the feeling. Yeah, I'm totally stuck on that. I don't know.

And who's out? Who's out, by the way? I don't know. Lilligren, maybe? Okay. Yeah, it could work. They're just going to have 10 guys on top of whoever's in net at all times. Every guy who is on the ice in Tampa will be standing in Samsonov's crease after every whistle.

You know what? You're right. They had to have envisioned Maroon and Corey Perry in front of the net. That's why you got Luke Shen. The second you're worried about defending Maroon and Corey Perry, you're losing. But they hurt you. They hurt you last year.

No, they didn't. See, I think they wore down. I think they wear you down. And I think they make people nervous. And I do think that that's the reason why you countered with a lot more grit. I agree with you that when you look at all the guys they have, so the guys you mentioned, but also the guys who are on top of the crease, like Sorelli and Point and Paul and Hagel and Colton,

and like those guys all live there. So I get a crease clearer as I talk about this through the show. This is what the show is, is therapy. You talk, the therapist says nothing, and you realize something as you're talking. I think you want Luke Shannon to start that series. So you asked, when did the Leafs start preparing for Tampa? Yeah. November. Now, well, you're right. I think you want Luke Shannon to start that series. So you asked when did the Leafs start preparing for Tampa?

Yeah. November. Now. Back in November. Yeah. When they knew they were going to face them.

And yeah and the trade deadline was part of dealing with Tampa. And the last thing before we go to break you mentioned playing against the Islanders and going there.

They can only hope to contain Pierre Engvall who is on a four game point streak right now. Three goals in four games? Five points in five games. Coming into tomorrow night. How many games has he played for the Island?

Seven. Five points in seven games. Wow. Who's going to contain him? I don't know. They're going to shut him down. Get Sandin on him. Okay. We got Matt Martin after the break. that's kind of cool with the leafs new toughness we're going to be asking him if he's shaking in his boots tomorrow night not at all oh yeah he is he's going to admit it on our show

after the break you are watching and listening to real kipper and born smart takes on the biggest stories in sports the fan drive time with ben ennis to Real Kipper and Born. on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Okay, as promised, let's welcome in 14-year veteran of the National Hockey League. Two of those seasons with the Toronto Maple Leafs, Matt Martin. Matt, we don't just let any player on this show. Just the real special ones here. So, thanks for joining us. Oh, I appreciate that intro.

Thank you very much. And thanks to JB, who does all our player bookings now. How are things going? Things are good. Things are good. Just got home from practice not too long ago. Yeah. Got the Leafs tomorrow night.

We appreciate your time. We know it's precious these days, especially when you're in a dogfight here coming down the stretch. Yeah, well, yeah, I just got back from the West Coast. So, you know, we did what we needed to do out there. And obviously got a tough one tomorrow against your hometown Leafs. So just got to keep finding ways to, finding ways to collect points, get wins, and hopefully find our way into the dance. Yeah, Matt, where are you guys at right now coming off that trip?

A couple of wins, obviously without Barzal right now. How are you guys adjusting to that and finding your way through? We've adjusted pretty well. We actually had a little bit of a tough stretch there. We lost Barzi, lost Peugeot, had Clutterbucket line up, had a good chunk of our regulars out,

but guys stepped up in different roles and found ways. Obviously the addition of Horvath and Engel has paid dividends for us. Horvath's been playing in, you know, really all different situations and taking more draws than I've ever seen a centerman take. So, you know, he's done what he's needed to do for us.

And I think everyone's stepped up to give us a chance, and now we're starting to see some of our regulars filter back in the lineup here, and we're starting to get healthy again. But we're taking it one day at a time, and just, like I said, trying to find ways to pick up points, win hockey games, because as you guys know, it's a tight race in the East.

Hey, at one point there, you joined, I believe, Horvat on the top line, did you not? You were playing, I'm looking at your time on ice, playing 18 minutes, 17 minutes here and there. What was that like for you? Is that just you going into Lou's office and saying, wake up? No, not quite that.

I think if you guys know Lou, it's more of a know who you are, do your job. Doesn't matter where you're playing. But no, it was great. Like I said, it wasn't just myself. I think it was everybody who were playing pretty shorthanded. And even the young guys that got called up in the minutes that they played, minimum minutes, did a great job.

And then some of the veteran guys that were put in different roles. I mean, for myself, I was playing penalty kill, jumped up there for a few games and played with them. And, you know, we're just finding ways to be impactful, be effective. And I think really it was up and down our lineup, guys, just finding ways to win games. And like I said, we've gotten Peugeot back now. We've gotten a few guys back healthy

and a lot more depth with our forward group now than a few weeks ago. And if you have to, you can rely on some good goaltending. Sorokin certainly put himself in a conversation amongst the better goalies in the National Hockey League. Just talk about him and the levels that he can get to and maybe be the difference whether or not you guys not only get in but make some noise as well. Yeah, he's special, man.

I watch him every single day. One, the more he learns language, the chattier he gets in the locker room. He's got a great personality. But on the ice, I mean, he's phenomenal. Every night it seems like he makes incredible saves for us at the right times. We're very fortunate to have two very, very good goaltenders. Obviously, we have Zarllamov in there as well. And, you know, every game we go into, we feel like we can win

and that they'll be back there and make the saves for us when we need them. And to watch Ilya from, he came over and joined us in the bubble where he didn't speak the language at all, just to watch him over the last few years kind of blossom and to know what you're seeing now um start there's sky's the limit for this guy man he is uh as good as i've ever seen and one of the fastest like i said just unbelievable personality on him as well um you know obligatory question because we're in toronto pierre engvall went there at the deadline how has he been used how is he fitting in we checked his stats for the show

and i see he's putting up some numbers how's it going with pierre engvall and can you beat him in a race in practice no that's not gonna happen um you know size size and speed it's a combination as you guys know that um you know isn't isn't easy to find so uh you know he's a big, as you guys know, that isn't easy to find. So he's a big body that skates extremely well. And I think the first two games for him, he was coming into a brand-new system, totally different environment. And then since then, he's kind of found a home on a wing with Nelson and Palmieri. Throughout the whole West Coast rep, he's been a big factor as to why we came away with a couple wins there.

He's producing, and he's been a huge addition for us. Obviously, didn't know him that well. We had a camp together, but didn't know him that well in Toronto. But when we played against him, obviously knew about his speed. It's always talked about. But he's a smart player. If you know Lou and you know our coaching staff, they like details and doing things right all the time.

And he does that. So he's fitting great for us and uh we're lucky to have him we're joined by matt martin left winger with the new york islanders uh i mentioned your your your your career uh going now almost 15 years to those seasons in toronto you know we've watched the leafs kind of go through this cycle of skill skill skill and then they got a little bit of grittiness, and they want that toughness back at the trade deadline. It just seemed when you were here in those two years, it was more skill and less toughness. But what do you remember about your two years here in Toronto?

Well, I remember a very young team that had all the potential in the world. I mean, we did make the playoffs both years. But, yeah, just Matthews was a rookie when I came in, Mitchie, William Nylander, all these guys. They were just kids, and now they're all bona fide superstars, really. You had some of the the best talent in the game over there and um they're they're tough matchup for anyone on any given night and to your point i think they they made good moves around the deadline i think as

you know kipper playoff hockey is a different animal and you had guys like luke shitt and then um you know flafferty and uh achiari and you know even ryan o'reilly who plays a responsible game i know he's hurt right now but um these guys these guys know what it takes come playoff time and they're physical and they'll make a huge difference matt you mentioned like the difference of playoff hockey and the type of game that goes on. The Islanders have been to the conference final a couple of times, had a couple of good playoff runs. I feel like if you guys get in,

you've got a veteran group of guys who've been through it. They play a pretty good playoff brand of hockey. Do you feel like there is a true difference in the way the game is played between that regular season and the playoffs oh yeah i do i just think that the commitment level uh obviously elevates the uh you know when i say commitment level i think one you know everyone's diving in front every shot to block it i think everyone's taking taken a piece of everybody. Now you're running in the same team potentially seven times in a row. So I don't think you ever pass up a hit.

I don't think, you know, you don't give anyone an easy play where I think sometimes, you know, throughout the course of an 82-game season, you walk into a West Coast building or something, you know, maybe the intensity isn't quite as high as it would be, obviously, for a playoff series. And on top of that, I think the games are called a little different as well. I think that there's less penalties, more five-on-five play. And ultimately, I think we have the depth and to play five-on-five hockey,

we've been, to your point, we've been pretty successful with that over our last two playoff runs. Obviously, missed some of the playoffs last year, but we believe in our group. We believe that we have what it takes to get the job done, but we've got to get focused on that right now. Matt, I can't think of a better player

than to ask this next question than you, my friend, and that is a hot-button topic, seems to be fights after big hits. Is that an issue for you? It's been something that I look at it that's been around forever. Issue or non-issue for you? Well, it's a tough one. I think the easy thing is for everyone to say.

Sammy. You know, I think we were on our last question. Oh, I think we lost Matt. That was like my best question that i was so looking forward to his answer saving it for the uh the finale of the interview sammy did you and matt plan that together we'll see if we can get him back you want to get him back listen i don't want to bother the man it's busy let him go after that then, then, and give him the one more. Oh, yeah, absolutely. One more.

It's a good question. Let's see. I'm just going to call him back, boys. Okay, and we're just going to ask him the one question again, and then we'll free him. I let you down, Kip. No, that's okay, Sammy. I'm just kidding, pal. I know you would never do that on purpose on me.

Amazing. He's got the worst timing, by the way, Sammy. I don't think it's Sammy. Sammy, do not cross the street unless I'm with you today. But yeah, like it is going to be interesting. After this, we'll talk about the Dumba on Kuznetsov hit. That's the latest one that we saw on the weekend. TJ Oshie goes to fight Dumba after he hits Kuznetsov.

Yeah, we may not get him, and that's okay. Sammy's giving me the hold on signal, right? Yeah. I give that one to my wife, and she's like, no, no, no. I've got that one a few times for you while you're on the phone. Tell me to hold on. Okay. All right.

We got Matt. Yeah. Kipper. I'm here. Do you want me to answer that question? I would love it. I would love it. Thanks.

So I think that it's an interesting topic because I don't think that every clean hit, I guess, should resort in a fight. I think physicality is part of the game. And us as players sometimes have to not jump the gun or else the physicality is going to go away completely. And obviously that's a part of game that I love. But in saying that, you know, the big argument is everyone looks on Twitter and goes, oh, that was a clean hit. That guy shouldn't have to fight. Well, you know, when you're standing on the ice,

I think you don't necessarily always know whether the hit was clean or not. And if you see your, your teammate or your brother or your, you know know one of your best friends laying on the ice after getting his you know essentially his head taken off uh your first reaction is to respond to that and you know for me i would generally rather be wrong that way than not do anything about it at all and find out that it was a dirty hit, I guess, and not respond to it. So it's a very tough subject and a very tough topic, and I don't have the answer to it. But I just think that, you know, obviously the players, we don't have the benefit of looking at a replay

and then going to respond to a hit or going to respond to something that happens. You're generally, you know, seeing it live or, you know, catching a little bit of it and, you know, kind of going off your first reaction or first emotion. And, you know, I will never criticize one of my teammates or any player really for sticking up for their teammate um i think

that's you know what brings the group together and um you know it's it's it's it's tough because nowadays you have so many replays and so many views and obviously so much criticism but um you know i think there would be if they can find a balance to it i don't think that's that's a bad thing but um you know i love physicality i also think that fighting is necessary in the game so it's a it's a hard one to really um juggle and get the answers to. And I know that, to your point, I know that that was a big topic at the GM meetings last week, and we'll see what they came up with. I think that's terrific insight from a guy that lives it, man.

We really appreciate your time. Want to wish you all the best, Matt, down the stretch here and in the spring, man. All right, I appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks, Matt. Appreciate it. New York Islander.

I got a lot out of his answer. I really did. Yeah. No, you know, I love the part where he said, I would rather be wrong that way. Like, you barely see it, your teammates lying on the ice, fighting for their life, you know, in the moment, and you'd rather

stick up for him and say oh i got it wrong it was a clean hit then not stick up for him and say oh you know my bad so this stems off of a big hit that you had just mentioned moments ago yeah before you that i just want to say how much the gillies family appreciates matt martin and what he does for their foundation he's become an ambassador for them. Huge on Long Island. Gives his time. Good to kids. Wonderful man. So thanks to Matt Martin. Class act. He is. All the way. So nothing but love for him. Very well put. And again, thanks to

Matt Martin and the New York Islanders for making him available. The big hit. Yes. And just in what Matt Martin just told us moments ago. And for me, someone that's lived it in another generation, not a whole heck of a lot has changed today for me. And, you know, the one thing that, you know, Matt says is that I found,

again, you know, very consistent is that, you know, we in that position, no matter where you were in what era, don't have the luxury of a replay or really, truly breaking down a hit. Let's be honest here. With the headshots the way they are, how many times have you stopped on your personal VCR or PC? What do you call them? Video, digital video recorders. Whatever. And frame by frame, you, digital video recorders, whatever.

And frame by frame, you get the luxury of going, oh, okay, was that the show? Well, how long did you and I do it on this hit for before the show? Yeah, exactly. So as players, we never got that luxury. So my first job isn't to answer whether it was a clean hit or not. The only thing that I care about in that instance is did you try to hurt my player? Yes.

Whether it was within the rules or not, I don't need you taking a run at my team. When you say, when someone says who's never been in that position, whether it's a clean check or it's not a clean check, that is not the same as, you're lumping them all into like 95%

of the checking that we see, which is bump a guy off the puck, get the puck and move on. And then there's the Matt Dumbo where it's like, I'm catching you with your head down. I'm taking advantage. Skated forwards from the blue line to light him up. i'm taking advantage forwards from the blue line to light them up i'm i'm taking advantage of you being in a vulnerable position and i am gonna

hammer the out of you which i am fine with as matt dumb as teammate and a fan of the nhl right yes and that's that gives me the green light to respond the way i want to respond yeah i agree yeah no and that's a big part of what i think what gets lost in the discussion is you know even to martin's point though he says you know you don't want to jump the gun all the time or it can take some of the physicality out of the game right if guys think every time i throw a hit i'm going to get fought for it fine yeah but i want the other team to think every time they throw a hit against my team they are going to have to fight for it and so maybe they don't want to throw that hit next time against my team there's so many factors that go into it and you just said

it exactly uh there's do do i think that this is the time that they're going to come after me if it's not do i back off this time do i do i finish a check no one have to deal with that guy but ultimately the hit matt dumba gave kuznetsov has on occasion hurt guys, put them out four to six weeks, have ended careers. Yeah. And that's what you want to answer to. But to be clear, you don't dislike that hit. I thought it was a fantastic hit.

Yeah. And I want to see more of those. Right. I do. Okay. And for once, too, the officials got the call right. They gave 2-5 and 10 to Oshie, who went to fight Dumba. Dumba got five for fighting.

The only thing that bothers me with having to, a guy on the other side here for for a second here because you gotta you gotta you gotta put you gotta wear both skates right the the aggressor and the guy that gets hit yeah is i don't necessarily like that a guy off a clean hit if we want to bring in the term clean hit, if you want to bring in the term clean hit, or a hit that play continues. How about that? Sure. I don't like the fact that a guy gets to decide to shut down the play just because he's going to go after a guy.

I think Oshie actually had the puck or very nearly had the puck and was like, no, I'm going to go fight the guy now. I got a feel for the guy who hits in the eyes of an official a clean hit. And yet you have the ability to pull me off the ice on that. Yeah. And I don't know what the answer is. But it used to be where on a hit like that, I had to answer the bell. Because if I didn't, I had to go back and look my teammates in the eye.

And there was this term in my day that nobody's used for a very long time, and that's turtling. That used to be like the kiss of death, that you had to look your teammates in the eye and say, I turtled. So there was a sense that you needed to answer that. Today, that's gone you don't have to fight you don't have to fight anymore after a big hit you can choose to but you don't have to yeah i how do you how do you how do you convince uh dumb button you know not to fight

or just well what's dumb gonna do Literally turtle is his only option because he was getting fought. No, it's up to the officials or the teammates just to get in there and not get it to the point where he has to take two or three punches either. Right? I don't know what the answer is to that, but I don't like the fact that a guy like

Truba gets pulled off the ice if he goes and hammers somebody too. Right. So's it's tricky yep but those flashpoint moments in hockey games are what makes hockey amazing like when like that's the crowd doesn't get up on their feet for much more than big hit by home team player followed by big fight that is what makes hockey great That's why people have loved hockey for as long as they have. So, like, I don't necessarily want, it's a natural reaction. That's the type of fight you want.

We may be trying to find a solution to a problem we don't have. That's exactly how I feel, Barney. Where it's like, I... If it's called correctly, like, there has to be, if I go and challenge a guy to fight and he doesn't want to fight then my team should be screwed yeah right either an interesting point is if dumba doesn't fight there now oh she's in the box we're on the power play oh she's on the power play a two-minute penalty for instigating um how about a two minute delay game penalty you delayed the game

well they give him 10 too you know yeah but there needs to be a heavy price to pay that's fine i like that go to go and challenge a guy that does not want to fight hey we were playing a hockey game here before this is this is my ultimate dream okay in this instance a guy goes and hammers a guy dumba blows up kuznetsov blows them up yeah okay and instead of oh she going after dumba oh she goes after somebody else and go go go hammer a minnesota guy hard take a run at someone take a run at one of those go try to hurt their guy and then have them come back and try to hurt their guy and then have them come back and try to hurt your guy like with hits that are clean hits that are clean and now we got a bunch of great big hits yeah mark messier was the energies up the emotions was the best we're

in dallas it's getting crazy he said i told you the story he stands up he looks at me and joey kosher goes don't go hit their dummies go hit their best player yeah what does he do oh my god so mike madano with the greasiest that's the way you do it it's a greasiest elbow that's borderline murder that's now a hard-hitting clean game yeah so you want mike madano to go to his teammates and be like, could you not grease their guys? Because I keep wearing one on the chin every time that happens. And I get dropped off the stretcher on the way.

That would add to the physicality overall. It's like, okay, I'm not going to fight you here, but I'm going after one of your guys now. And now all of a sudden everybody's at the edge of their seat, not just to watch Conor McDavid go end-to-end. But to see if he dies. Now we got more elements. But to see if he dies? Yeah.

Now we got more elements. You don't want to miss a shift in that hockey game. No, I'm... Listen, you created a compelling theater. That's what makes hockey great is breathtaking speed and skill

mixed with the threat of violence. That's what hockey... That's at its core what makes it great. It would be dishonest to argue that. That's like... I love a big fight like i thought we were gonna get one on saturday night regular season i'm sorry

like austin watson and uh wayne simmons were on the ice at the same time they're kind of getting each other's i was like oh please let's get a fight gun and he's like no didn't happen yeah by the way i respect simmons for not being like all right they're putting me in here now i need to go punch someone like he, he played the game. No, he played, like, yeah. Yeah. He's not really making much of an impact, but he's not getting scored on a whole lot. He's just doing his thing out there.

Yeah. But I would like to see him fight Austin Watson. By the way, did we know he was in last weekend before we spent 15 minutes on, is Wayne Simmons going to play hockey for them again? That was before. Okay. It's kind of a strange one for me. That he got in or that?

No, just that, you know, he's- We literally said- He's a part-time player. He's not really doing it full-time. Well, they're throwing the guy a bone. He's been a great soldier for them. They needed a guy on the second half of the back. We're not in the throw-a-bone business. He can play enough.

He can play enough. They're back-to-back. They got 15 games at the end of the season. They don't have a lot of forward depth. Why not put him in that? That's a bad case. That's a bad point. That's a bad point. No, it's not.

If the points are going to get in playoffs, then I'll hear it. Listen, that's not wrong. We're not telling you you're wrong. We're just saying that, you know, to ask a guy to play once every three weeks, once every three and a half weeks, once a month. To me, you have 12 guys with Ryan O'Reilly, 12 guys that are clearly your forwards after that i want to know who's going to play next and give those guys the

ice time so if it's mcmahon holmberg steves are next don't put wayne simmons in if simmons is really going to be one of the guys then put them in so this says to me maybe simmons is in certain events ahead of alex steves which i would agree with yeah so maybe that we got a little glimpse into the hierarchy of who's coming in next you're going into a playoff game against you know they're playing eight minutes a night against um pat maroon and cory perry who'd rather have in the lineup? Alex Steeves or Wayne Simmons? Wayne Simmons. Yes. Although, ask me, Wayne Simmons or Holmberg and McMahon, and it's Holmberg or McMahon. He's been in our position in these previous playoffs.

Right. And it hasn't fared out great for him. Nope. Hasn't. But was it in game one? They won game one five spit. Oh, God, I was dreaming. Do you remember?

I was dreaming after that game. Five nothing. Leafs overa bay in a playoff game like a million years ago oh i know scoring on a breakaway against vassaloski like we're sweeping these guys just such a reminder that it's seven games oh yeah you know you just hopefully more than can't ride the roller coaster you got a rasmus uh sandin update for us i do listen to like i've had to find out the next leaf was on fire and now he's like i spent too much time on twitter but i gotta read all these dorks telling me how big a mistake it was for the least to trade rasp and sandin so i'm gonna remind you better believe rasmus say okay this is from i

forget the person who tweeted this is one of the guys who covers the the tom galedia thank you that covers the capitals rasmus sandin is far from the only one struggling defensively for the capitals but he's a nightmare on a nightmare run where he's been on the ice for 13 of 16 even strength goals and they've that they've allowed in the past four games including two of three, he's minus 11 during that stretch. Oh my God. So, I mean, that's not a sarcastic.

Oh my God. Minus 11 over a string of games. Every guy that's like, hell, maybe they should elevate Sandin for a bigger role. This is what you get. Dash 11. It's also a reminder when you take a,

you know, a sort of contributing player on a very good team and put them on a bad team, you know, you're not as protected and sheltered it's tougher to look like look great and a reminder of guys who are on bad teams that come over to a good team just sometimes need a little support team context is huge at least traded for fully formed they traded sandin for fully formed sandy in gustav there hasn't been a bigger stretch this season of more bad hockey than we've seen in this like last week and a half

like just around the league around the league like playoff race take a look everybody's like falling off. It's like the rain. Nobody wants it. Buffalo got spanked. The difference, the discrepancy between good teams and bad teams has never been brighter than what I've seen in the last week. No. Like Buffalo. We love Buffalo. Six, seven, nothing.

Seven, nothing. Nashville. Like seven, nothing. Seven, nothing. Nashville. They lose seven, nothing. Seven, nothing. I'm watching. God, they suck. I know Yossi's out. Yeah.

But they have a backup goalie last night against the Rangers. David Ayerson? I don't know who it was. They pull him after four nothing and sorrows has to go in oh really never do that like i'm why just let the guy give up a dozen like 18 i don't care if it's 20 that's insane i am like sorrows must have cold sorrows off the bench yeah they did wow for nothing in a season that's well maybe they are pretending this is where i give the leafs credit here too because they left samsonov at home

this weekend if in by chance matt murray got filled saturday night you don't even want him thinking about like going in yeah that was a smart a smart move. I actually really liked that move, to call up Wall and leave Samsonov at home. Yeah. Perfect. It was a smart play. Perfect. But like Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh lost 6-0 to the Rangers.

Does anybody want the playoffs? I don't know. It's, you know, you look at the... Calgary, Winnipeg. Anybody want it? The Flames are just tripping on their own shoelaces we'll say um yeah they are four points out with one game in hand on winnipeg winnipeg can't lose enough they're just dying to give away hockey games so yeah nashville nashville's not going to make it

but they you know they're minus 11 and they're only a few points out of playoffs winnipeg's got arizona and anaheim they got to win those games coming up calgary's got la anaheim uh vegas san jose how many of those do they need calgary's got a four red hot yeah three out of four well i mean look down the stretch camper there this is the back half of their schedule vancouver anaheim chicago winnipeg vancouver national san jose wow the last like eight games they don't play a playoff team outside of winnipeg who's fringe so jimmy rutherford was right all along a vancouver just no structure and they just had to get rid of bruce boudreau apparently they're the best team in the league now. You mentioned the Kings there. That Corpus Allo trade looks pretty good for them right now.

Yeah. Is he playing well? I haven't seen that. He's never a fan. Doing okay this year? He's got a 1. Canucks are 8-2 in the last 10. He's got a 1-9-6 goals against in these four games there. Is the equivalent to Tampa and Toronto in the west in the first round edmonton and la

i like that like two very good teams you probably shouldn't draw each other yeah first round yeah vegas is just doesn't do it for me surely one of these teams is going to catch vegas vegas has vancouver calgary yeah i don't know. Are you buying into LA? Yeah, they're annoying. They're pesty. You know, they got, if Corpus Allos are right, I like them. Like, we're losing two good teams in the first round out of LA and Edmonton and Toronto, Tampa Bay.

Yeah. Yeah, and then, look, the Rangers and the devils will be in the first round or rangers in carolina like there's there's good teams going home no doubt about it yeah sammy you got to fix this first round yeah okay i'm gonna put in a call to gare call someone will you me and gare go way back i i think i'm just looking at the standings here so it's right now it would be um la and Edmonton. Would that be right? First round?

Oilers got to be careful there. Well, yeah. They went seven games with them last year, didn't they? Oh, yeah. And Corpus Allo has been really good for them. And I like that Kings team. That's one that would be a scarier matchup than you'd think. To me, it's guys like Deneau and Kopitar who played D. And we saw how that went in Toronto.

I love that Fiala's good ad. And Arvidsson. And they got a lot of just scrappy guys. They added Fiala, which gave them a different look, a finishing look. They're a pretty good team. Oh, they are. I tweeted yesterday about the puck trail on the broadcast. I was watching the St. Louis Blues game.

It's one of those Bally's one. I hadn't seen it in a long time. And they had the puck tail, like the Fox glow track puck on passes, zipping it around on the power play. And I was like, I don't know. You can kind of talk me into this. Like, I didn't hate how it looked. I think you guys saw my tweet.

What did you think um would the group with the broadcast be aided by that my first thought when i saw it was that that's the station that went bankrupt so they owe a billion dollars and i think the debt started the moment they they did this look at this thing at him zipping it around. Zip, zing, zoo. I'm into it. McKee being into it shocks me. I think it looks cool.

It looks cool. I think it helps people follow the play who aren't as savvy as you and me, Kip. Kip, we're living in the year 2000. I'm a dot. People who have really bad eyesight. And people who didn't play and don't know where to look for the puck that it should be going. We did this 30 years ago. Yeah, but it wasn't this.

What? What's the difference? The Fox puck? It was orange and this one's black? Yeah. What's the difference? Because one looked like, you know, remember when you watch like an old movie with like the old special effects? Laser guns?

We're like, how the hell do we live like this? And now the movie special effects are great. And we live in the year 2023 where technology is sick. Tell me again one more time. I can tell you from the response, many people hate it. Multiple humans. Many people hate it. You know what it looks like?

Uh-oh. A video game? The dirt that follows my my tee shots. It's a worm burn screaming behind. It's like a divot for me. Like you topped it like you topped the five wood. So I put a poll on Twitter and I said like or whatever and dislike and five almost six thousand votes. It is like split down the gut.

Thirty six percent of people like it. Thirty three point five say whatever. gut 36 percent of people like it 33.5 say whatever and 30 percent of people dislike it if there's that much of a demand that 36 percent of people want it you are really concerned for people who are watching the game for the first time that's that's your your your number one argument what are we trying to do other than to grow the audience of the nhl i think it's cool you can just like flex how good a technology you than to grow the audience of the NHL? I think it's cool. You can just flex how good a technology you have just for the sake of doing it.

If you could toggle it on or off, so Sportsnet now premium, toggle it on or off. That's one of the options. Do you want the tracker or no tracker if you're watching on your computer? I'd track. I think I'd track here and there. I might not track all the time. You track? You track?

I don't know. I track on a power play. I don not track all the time. You track? You track? I don't know. I track on a big tracker. On a power play? Don't mind them snapping around. You're a non-tracker? Not attracted to the tractor? You're a non-tracker? Unattracted to the tractor. Tractor? Are you John Deere? Good talk. That was an important discussion. Well, the good news is that they're

gone bankrupt. I don't have to worry about that anymore. my god he's gone see ya all right any good games tonight what do you got for us i was just looking not really any important ones no tampa bay montreal tomorrow ottawa pittsburgh like the penguins got to figure it out far has got to win pittsburgh got to win so they're they're desperation games but they're not two relevant teams biggest game of relevance is the calgary flames playing the los angeles kings the flames need points and oh are they close do you know the flames lead the nhl in one goal losses and how many you know is 23 last time i checked and lead the nhl in posts and crossbars hit with over with just over 70 that's disgusting in under 70 games that seems really high well it's won a game i know but like yeah it's the most in the league do you know what the next closest is i

feel like that's like 20 more than that i don't i did get that from an analytics company but i don't uh know who's second so my point is this team's close i'll give you a bunch of flame stats while we're at it they lead the nhl in shots but they're 20th in slot shots so everything comes from the outside they have the most shots from the outside they just pepper the puck at the net and nothing or not much of value you know the the thing that stood out for me out of the uh 6-5 overtime loss on saturday night to to to dallas what's that was uh no points for cadry in 13 minutes of ice time no points in 13 minutes oh 13 minutes is the note there okay i was like no points in a game that happens all the time 13 minutes that the note there. Okay, I was like, no points in a game. That happens all the time. 13 minutes, that's not many. Wow.

Yeah. Daryl not... I don't know. Something's up there. Doesn't seem like Daryl's a big fan of Kadri right now. God, does Daryl like anyone? God, it must be so tiring playing for this guy. He likes his tractor.

He's like, yeah. He's going to play... He's like, Luchich, get out there for another shift. He's a big fan of the tractor. He should toggle tractor on and go drive it. That's right. Is there anyone that else played for the 2012 Kings? Can we get Trevor Lewis in the top line?

God. Yeah. Got to get Kadri going. Yes. That makes sense to me. All right. Fun show, boys. Just like that.

Two hours gone. See ya. Our thanks to Matt Martin from the New York Islanders. And as always, Jim Ralph. Give us a rating and review if you get a chance. Love to hear from you. Give us a thumbs up on YouTube. We're back again tomorrow to tee up New York Islanders, Toronto Maple Leafs.

Have a great night, everybody.