Real Kyper & Bourne - Late-Season Scouting with Jason Bukala + The Vancouver Circus

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off the second hour with some April Fools memories before welcoming in former NHL scout Jason Bukala (4:21). He discusses what to expect from Boston College star Ryan Leonard as he joins the Washington Capitals, prospect development in the U.S. vs. Canada, the challenge of cross-league prospect comparisons, Lane Hutson's case for the Calder, and much more. Later, Canucks Central's Dan Riccio joins the show (31:13) to discuss the circus in Vancouver this season, Quinn Hughes's standing amongst the NHL's best players, Rick Tocchet's future with the team and the potential consequences if they miss the playoffs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Alright, welcome into Real Born and McKee. We are not with our boy Nick Kiprios today who is sports net is sadly let go. No, I'm kidding. It's what's that's April Fool's. He's golfing. He's somewhere in Florida. We have a couple of shows this week, you know, because the Jays play So he figured he'd take advantage of it. He will be missed until then but for now, it's you and me

How you doing scram beat it? I'm good. You mentioned April Fool's there I will not throw anyone under the bus But as you may know this morning Tyler Gearwood's put out a tweet. Oh.40 this morning and said that he's going to be playing in the Masters despite rupturing his Achilles three weeks ago. And I looked at my phone, I was making a coffee, I looked at my phone and I got an email notification from somebody at this company who sent it out like, because we send out like big sports things to like the whole company, like we do that all the time.

But somebody I don't know the person and I'm not gonna say their name because I don't want to embarrass them. They sent it out to the whole company. I was like listen I've gotten God on some April Fool's. My mom was very ruthless when it came to April Fool's. So I'm very scarred and I'm very high April Fools Most no, I like April Fools Like I like a good joke like yeah, but I'll tell you one that's you know relevant to hockey I was I don't know maybe 11 10 or 11. We were in Toronto. My sister Jackie lives in Toronto

so we were at her place she was here for a university and lives in Toronto so we were at her place she was here for a university and the Leafs were playing the Washington Capitals that night and my mom was like Sam we have tickets to go see the Washington Capitals and draw my police play hockey like I'm like oh my god oh my god and I was like jumping around Jackie's apartment so excited and then like I saw the old ticker on the score when he used to be a TV channel said Leafs at Washington and I was like a little kid wasn't really paying that close attention I was like wait a second. Yeah, my mom told me we had tickets to least came

It was good also when I was a teenager we were in Florida my mom told me that like she was pregnant That was like 15 or 16 she was like you know and I did it I did it I was like I believed it I was like there's no way no no no she's gonna be a big brother I was like no and I believed it so I'm very keenly aware of all I saw the Mitch Marner one that got flicked out today it's all like some Tavares ones get your jokes off I don't mind yeah I, I generally hate it. I was convinced I was going to summer school once. Okay, but you know, you're right. That's the better way. Yeah. Thank God I'm not right. You get to live with the that's great. Anyways, this

hour of Real Kipper and Bourne's Brett brought to you by bet 365 going to be joined by a minute by Jason Buchla. Going to talk a little bit about, you know, the new signings coming to the NHL. Ryan Leonard joining the Washington Capitals. Jimmy Snuggerud joining the St. Louis Blues. You were saying you're a big fan of the fact that Ovi was taking out Leonard on his first day as a capital. If you've listened to this show, you know my thoughts on you're not an Ovi guy. Never been an Ovi guy.

Haven't been since he wore a tinted visor for team rush at the world juniors never been a fan So slighted that is the most like hockey culture. This is no I just I was like what are you doing? Yeah, and then we beat him 6-1 in the medal and knocked him out of the game the men of the game anyways Yeah video of older ovi with all the young guys at the bar Just you know them chanting bands or make a dance whatever the song you're singing God, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, it's five away from the literal all-time goal record and he's out there having a blast looking like listen like I if that guy walked into my Into it be like, you know the zigzags

We might never seen him before them like this guy with that barrel, with his hair. I'm like, look at this guy. And he's just one of the all-time greats. Oh, the other day I was having a chat with someone about the potential for players post-career to get big. I did it. I was up to 230 or something. Post-career?

Yeah. He's already there. Well, I know. It's going to be fascinating to see how tight over you can keep it. All right. We are joined by Jason Buchla of the Pro Hockey Group and Sportsnet Puckpedia, the founders scouting director. Oh my God.

Where are you, dude? What's going on? Fellas, I'm on the road. I'm on the road. I pulled over on the en route here. Complete chaos outside Kitchener, but I'm here for you. As you know, all the time. I got my scout Cito on here.

I'm meeting Sammy at the you know all the time. I got my scout seat. Oh on here Yeah, I'm eating a stamp. I'm eating Sammy at the game in in Brampton I thought Sammy McKee might go up to Brampton after the show tonight, but no go to the Jays game today books Go to the Jays game go for the Major League sports I already made my pilgrimage down to London for Sunday afternoon to go see the Knights in the attack play So that was my junior hockey and go to the Jennys on Friday. So those are my two junior hockey games But yeah, so you're on the way for scouting what on-road are you at they're also scenic yeah they all look the same they are chaotic at this time of night it's pure entertainment outside kitchen right here there's a lot of chaos in the parking

lot a lot of fantastic people watching I feel like I'm on the strip in Las Vegas Yeah, you're not on route Vegas, baby All right, so we were just talking about Ovi and and Ryan Leonard you did a great sequence of videos I believe it's on your Instagram page if I'm not mistaken Is that where you put that out or is it Twitter did Did a piece on them today for sports.ca too. Yeah, it's on all the above, Borny. I'm getting better at the social media thing.

Good. Your multi-platform. At Pro Hockey Group. At Pro Hockey Group for Twitter. But it is on sportsnet.ca. You get all the good and then you get a little one in there that I call an area of an opportunity for him that he's going to have to improve on. improve on Ryan Leonard that is as he makes his debut for the Washington Capitals tonight. And before we get into it. I am fascinated by the weight conversation to I do believe OV is going to look like my I have Polish heritage, and my, my, my jaw job my grandfather, I think there's a good chance Ovi's gonna look like my Jaja in a few years.

So- Just three bills, eh? Yeah, he went from like 200 when he was in the war to a svelte 295, I'm sure, towards Gitta. So anyways- Couple of pierogies along the way. Jaja Ovi. Oh, pierogies and cabbage rolls.

I mean, all kinds of surprise foods. Give us a Ryan Leonard scouting report there, books, if you can. the three or four of these guys. I don't know when you have a league of six or seven hundred players, whatever we have and if there's like 10 kids like this coming into league, I still kind of think those are unicorns on balance. It's a very low number. Brian Leonard is going to add another layer of power forward and skill to the Washington Capitals. He's one of my favorite players outside the league. All kinds of growl. He shoots the puck. His first instinct is to get it to the net instead of, you know, be a natural playmaker. But he's one of those guys that he doesn't necessarily have to touch the puck to be involved in the play. So if there's a third assist that could be handed out if you get my drift, because he extends plays and he's in the way and he's in the fight and creates chaos, he's one of those guys.

It's gonna be a heavy lift here to start his career. We all know that. It's hard at this time of year to step in. Matthew Nyes did a nice job of it. The first time he came out of school. Ryan Leonard had 25 even strength toxics here, boys. Four power play, one on the short. He played all situations at BC.

Captain, he was the world juniors, he was the top forward at the World Juniors, MVP at the World Juniors. This kid's a handful. Yeah, I didn't watch any of his college exploits, but him and the World Juniors, I mean, he was undeniably great. And all these guys that are coming in here, I can't help but notice that a lot of them have an American passport, Bukes. I'm interested in the sort of class because we've seen what happened the last couple years At the at the world juniors and with the best on best stuff that's starting to pop up here Where we're gonna need these next generations to start, you know insulating what we already have You know you see McKenna and what he's doing and he's got eight points in the first two games for

For medicine hat to start the WHL playoffs Like how do you weigh the two countries development programs? Like at this level they have the US really gone ahead of us a lot Like I I don't know if it's too broad of a question for you But I just think it's fascinating that like you think a snug root is coming in this Leonard that's coming in It's like it seems like there's a lot of American influence on these college guys there always is but at this level It feels like it's better than's a lot of American influence on these college guys that always is but at this level, it feels like it's better than it ever has been.

Totally agree. Let me put it to this way Sammy. They've got it on every they have it in every skill category. So if you look at snugger coming in, he's kind of like Ryan Leonard light. He's a guy to uber competitive kids shoots the the pocket fun. What a great board. I don't know if you guys heard it or not.

They they asked him what number he preferred, going to the St. Louis Blues. And he says, I don't care what it says in the back of my jersey, I play for the Crests in the front of my jersey. Hockey men everywhere were like, oh gosh, that's incredible. Oh my god, man.

If a kid at the combine could come up with something original like that for me, I'd be taking them out for, you know, well, stuff later on. I'd be very excited about it. But I mean, they have that the the US model is grooming players to be productive in all kinds of categories so we talked about the liners we talked about the snuggeroos you talk about the Knives but then you look at the Lane

Hudson's and the Cole Hudson's and by the way Quinn Hudson who's the older brother brother of the Hudson's the, he's a forward at BU. There's three of them? He's going to get a deal. There's three of them. He's going to get a deal too. And I would anticipate his signs when he's coming out of the Frozen Four. Now, he's a forward, he's a different player.

But to your point, you know, when you start talking about McKennahs and the Celebrenes or, I don't know, like we could go down even Porter Marton. I can go on to watch Porter play tonight. There's a power guy. There's a big power guy, but the volume of players and in every category, even goaltenders, like look at the goaltenders, Trey Augustine is, I didn't know. I didn't see if he turned pro with the tray yet or not today, but I believe he's gonna come out of Michigan State. They've got it going on at every category, fellows and coaches, like David Karl, come on.

There should be a lineup around the corner for him for his services coming out of Denver. So how does the process of like cross-checking leagues go? That always fascinates me, cause you watch a guy and you're watching the guy in the O and you're like, okay, at the O he's this. Is he better than a guy who's played 42 games out of denver and a totally different style of hockey like how does the process of determining how to stack these guys up against each other

happen so great question first of all you have to eliminate some sort of bias and you have to take as much information in as possible and you also have to factor in for me anyways, the position the player plays. So if you're a defenseman, for example, like the Cole Hudson kid, and this is why I wasn't worried about Lane Hudson when he was gonna turn pro-Borne, because I saw him, college hockey, you played it,

college hockey on balance is three years older than any category of major junior. So the average age is like 22 and a half somewhere around there. So if you're 18, 19 years old and you're a defenseman, for example, like Lane, and I see that he's in the fight and I see how calculating he can be to defend, that tells me something. I kind of feel more comfortable that he's going to be able to, even though some of those college games are not as skilled as maybe the really high-end elite CHL players but they're men and they're playing hard and they're playing fast and and you remember those college games like you're so amped up on that Friday night right hit it to get it to get it out of your system because you've been sitting there all week you play those two games that's

why when I go scale school college games and for my staff I would always tell them to go for both games don't tell me you're going to this game here on a Friday and that game on a Saturday. I need you to see how they are on both nights because Saturday is a lot more organized. But anyways, I digress here. You have to take the macro into account here and really you start with your baseline,

never change your baseline. Are you thinking it? Are you executing it? And are you playing fast and thinking fast? I worry is your relentless compete in place because nothing else matters. I don't care what level you play at in the world. If I'm just coming to kid in Europe, in college,

in the CHL, if you don't play fast, think it fast and have that relentless compete, especially at this time of year, the rest of your skills set never going to matter. It doesn't matter. You can be the most skilled guy on earth, but if you're not ready in all those other categories, you're never going to be able to make it happen. So it's a fun time of year, but it's different hockey, I will say that.

And then next week, next month, when I'm in Dallas for the world championships, U18 worlds, that's going to be different all again, because those Euros are gonna come over here and play on an NHL size sheet. So now you're gonna see some of those smaller skill guys who've been playing on bigger ice and see how they adapt on the smaller race next month. So a lot goes into it. I was just fiercely trying to pull up the calder odds

for the NHL, but I'm an idiot, I can't figure it out. Anyways, I just wanted to ask you, because you're mentioning Lane hunts it a lot there and I got to tell you at the start of the year when he was taking all those minuses as a Leaf fan it was a lot more fun to talk about it oh yeah maybe he's not so ready for this and then I watch him against the Panthers on Sunday I I mean I was a grown adult. What a nice thing to do. He played in the NHL. It's fine. What are you doing here? But I watch him against the the Panthers on Sunday. It's like oh my god. He just oh no, they got Quinn Hughes Yeah, so for me, I think Celebrey's been brilliant this year. Dustin Wolfe has been Unbelievable as well for the Flames like he's the only reason they have a chance like how do you handicap this Calder race?

Cuz all three guys are having brilliant rookie years Lane Hudson's for sure right now it was and I I honestly it Dustin wolf could have let I don't say They're not gonna get there But so I guess I write till the end of the season I'll hold back on my vote But if that's some welcome somehow Backstop the Calgary Flames in the playoffs listen the Cal Calgary Flames, you guys know how they play. They got such great character They pull for each other. They work for it, but they have not scored a lot of goals this year guys, right? So when you're 32nd in the league in goals for that just puts

Enormous amount of pressure on your goaltender because you can't outscore your mistakes necessarily. So that's where I sit on wolf I think that he's he's a fantastic story. He's probably number two I don't know. It probably splitting hairs on number two. But listen Lane Hudson what he's done here You have to go back to 1985 86 with the Montreal Canadiens I forget might have been like it was a euro I believe who who who led or who was named rookie of the month for the Habs twice in one season That's how far back with that historic franchise. And this is the most amount of points as a rookie defenseman, I believe,

that has been scored since Nick Lindstrom. So the kind of company he's keeping here and the way that he's evolved to your points, Sammy, at the beginning of the year, it was okay. How are you gonna adjust? How are you gonna be more calculating with your defending? Obviously he's got smaller quickness, He's got dart and active stick. He's not going to want to body up necessarily, right?

He doesn't want to get worn down off the cycle. Smart, super competitive, and then the rest of his skill set. He can't teach that. You can nurture it, but you can't teach it. Yeah, I'm just looking at the guys that he's ahead of in just points this year for defenseman like you know he's he's ahead of Evan Bouchard Dullin Josh Morrissey Adam Fox Eric Carp like points guys yeah that leather you know you don't measure that defenseman just like that but yeah it's it's it's a real enough yeah it's a real deal here like yeah and with that demo they might be in good shape. Yeah, Montreal. Yeah, they might be in good shape. They're gonna be a little bit okay.

And like they got the father kid at BC, the goaltender who had an outstanding year at Boston College, eventually he's going to arrive. Uh, obviously they've got, uh, Demidov on the horizon here and, uh, you know, I can't wait for him to get over here for the kid first of all because It's good as he wants to be in North America. He wants to be an NHL player And they're playing with him a little bit over there between the years, you know They threaten to bench him for for a cage. I'll play boss leading scorer by the way at Scott Yeah, we're gonna bench you for the playoffs on an expiring contract in the cage all bananas Of course, and then then they dressed them. So they're just playing mind games on and then he scored he scored in the first game. So

Boy, oh boy the Montreal Canaries. They got a lot in the cupboard a lot So we had Andy Strickland from st. Louis on yesterday there they're a bit of a story, right? I think one of the one nine straight they've just surged up to the standings The one thing that stands out to me is when we had Doug Armstrong on earlier in the year, you know He is kind of Waffling about what they were gonna be and they're thinking about the future and he said, you know One thing people don't really look at with us is we have five first-round picks or five former first-round picks coming to join us In the coming years. So the Blues are good and they have guys coming

Snugger Root is one of them I presume and then there are some others that look pretty good as well. Well yeah I don't have the roster in front of me. Thanks for putting me on the spot. Dallabor Davorski is one. It might be in the washroom at the Enroute if you want to go have a quick look there. Otto Stenberg, Zach Dean, Zach Bolduc, Snugger Root. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that.

I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that.

I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that.

I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. He's more like a guy who ripped the pill from the flank on the power play and do some things from the perimeter. And then you get Otto Stenberg who's a, he's a, how can I put it? Um, he's, he's, he's a, it's a bull moose in a China shop. He's built like a fire hydrant, but he's, he's, he's, he's in the fight all the time in the middle of the ice. He's been a part of leadership group, but team Sweden at every level, captain their team, um, and he can push the play up and down the ice he'll provide secondary offense I think in the NHL but he's got all those other tangible things when I think of the Blues right now little guys as good as they've been I think it's like 15 2 & 2 or 16 2 & 2 I

may be out by a game there in the last 20 smoking look at the smoke and hot look at the top of the table look look who's doing the scoring. Thomas, Holloway, Kai Rue, these guys are leading this group and they're all under, they're 25, 26 and under, you know, and Dylan Holloway's got I believe 25 maybe 26 goals now as well, so not only do they have it on the horizon, they got that mix of veteran guys that are gonna, you know, still be good enough to assist that push with those young guys. And then you start saying what you said there, more about the young guys coming in. I think St. Louis had eight, if I'm not mistaken, eight prospects at the World Juniors this year.

How did they do that? They just won the cup. Yeah. Why do they have picks and prospects? They're pretty good. Smart. Doug Armstrong, cup. Yeah. Why do they have picks and prospects? Pretty good. Smart. Doug Armstrong, man. Hey, picks, prospects, and you signed two opera sheet guys. So you mailed in some picks.

They spent draft capital for the opera sheet situation for Broberg in Holloway, and they've still got all that on the horizon. Great job by Danny Janell there and their scouting stuff. There's certain teams in the league and I love all the guys on the tour. I really do. But it takes about 10 minutes to take a look at the Dallas Stars, the Washington Capitals, the St. Louis Blues, even what the Calgary Flames are doing right now. The Montreal Canadiens. These teams are replenishing and they have a plan and they're sticking to it and look what's happening.

With St. Louis it's extra special because it wasn't too long ago they won a cup and now they're going to be looking like they're loaded for bear for several more years. It's interesting there. You mentioned the Caps and the Blues and I think there's some parallels between those two teams. For sure. And if I'm a general manager with like a kind of a pushy owner, I wouldn't necessarily love those two teams as examples,

because they're like, well, look at them. They never suck. Look at Chicago. Also, why are you so bad? Yeah, but it's like those two teams never really sucked. And now they're at the top of the stand. One team's won nine in a row. One team's at the top of the standing.

They've been able to sort of, you know, bridge the gap between being really good and being cup winners and never truly bottom out to build their team Is that yeah, I guess that's scaling it comes down to but I'm sure there's some owners around the league They're like those those goody two shoes Maybe they're gonna look bad like Kyle Davidson in Chicago is like jeez and this isn't looking great for me Yeah, why do you have to suck though? Like why do you why do you have to suck? I mean it you're only one or two bad decisions away from it all falling apart. Like I'm gonna pat myself and our staff in Florida on the back just a little bit here.

What they're doing in Florida with the Panthers is unbelievable. Bill Zito's done a fantastic job with his staff. But we were getting good and we were good right before he took over. But when he left, it's not like what happened in Toronto. Like Kyle Dubas had a different plan for the Toronto Maple Leafs and it ended up being that there wasn't any prospects, the Covers were bare for draft capital, the Europe against the cap. When Bill Zito came into the Florida Panthers, if you want to take a look at the guys that

he traded out around the league that we left, the Weager, Hubert Dole Matheson, Montembeau, Owen Tippett, all these first round picks that we, the cupboards were full, there was space available on the cap and you could just turn over the roster or you could trade out prospects that you didn't want to have and you don't have to be bad to be good and when you get good you should be able to create some synergy there. But my one thing I would always say, don't fall too in love with what you have. There is an expiration date on what you have. If it doesn't work, don't fall too in love with it because you got to keep filling up the tank of gas with something new.

And that's a problem with a lot of franchises in the league. They think, oh, let's just give them another year. Oh, let's just give them another year. And before you know it, yeah. You got nothing. You're three years down the road and it's over. The Jays traded a Nick Robertson before the Leafs did. They did.

They traded Nick Robertson today, apparently. They had one. Who knew? Yeah, anyway. Unbelievable. But yeah, I've always said that the team knows before other people know. Even when the name is still relevant, the team's like, God, I'm not sure about this guy. That's when you should probably make some of those moves.

So we're, you know, I know we're jumping around, but I know you're, you know, you know, the whole league. So Calgary flames, not just going to ask you about all the young guys. Last night, Adam Clapka scores the game tying goal. He also makes an unbelievable pulls it from behind the net for a tuck that Longberg puts in they've another come from behind. Does Klapka have a chance to be a guy in the league? Six foot eight, 24 years old. He's got a guy as Calgary gets good to be in the four like that's what he is. I'm not gonna

again like he's had a hell of a week like he was challenging people and you know's what he is. I'm not gonna again like he's kind of held the weak like he was challenging people and you know doing what he's got to do. He made that that move on the blue line was like whoa yeah yeah just happened there where'd that come from but yeah he's a four he's a big four if you can if you can create chaos and I'm not talking about having to drop the flippers either I'm just talking about being at a heart out and creating space for your group, i.e. Lombard, who by the way, Ryan Lombard, if anybody wants to watch a lot of him, he is the biggest smile, one of the most energetic guys in the league. What a great guy to have in your room.

But that all fits the culture there. And Clapas is is a four a little boardy. I'm not going to oversell that. All right, I just one last thing before we go. We'd like to be on your way. The Ottawa Senators, you know, I watched yesterday we had a quick conversation about the trade for cousins and Norris. You know, some of the behind the scenes thing, we didn't really get to see the full conversations people have but in your experience What are those conversations you can touch on that one specifically if you like or just tell us generally about the process the Scouts have in in those big trades So the first thing that happens is you eliminate any outside noise and that includes injuries

So what you do is you take a look at the athlete you say to yourself on the best day Who's the better player and give me the reasons why. So, you know, right shot, left shot, play it fast enough, win faceoffs, track 200 feet, create better than secondary offense. Can it be used in all situations? What's this compete level like? And then the big one for me, and I would always ask our staff this on his worst possible day, and I mean your worst state, you know, like we all have bad days. You can wake up on the wrong side of the bed or whatever on your worst possible day. How much does he have

to give the group on his bad days? Because that's really important to me. It gets a hard league and things I need to know that like I want to know that it's not an exact science, but you can kind of figure it out. Right. Um, so you start with that. And then beyond that is when you start to talk about injury history, and situational success or lack thereof, because some players that leave Buffalo, for example, they spike out other places. You ask yourself the question, why? Is it what they're surrounded with?

Is it because they were not the best version of themselves there, et cetera, et cetera? And then it gets to the medical with Norris, and that we would hand that off to our medical people. You would ask for the medical from the Ottawa Senators, hopefully the agents involved in that, and it would be as truthful as possible. If you don't get that medical, in my experience,

if I don't get a medical, I don't recommend that we do that deal to our upper management, our ownership, our president, whatever, because when you've had several shoulder surgeries like that, I need to know that I'm gonna have this player at that age for several years because that's what cousins is going to give in Ottawa. So those are the background discussions. And, uh, you know, if you're really lucky, if you're really lucky,

you've run face first into one of the trainers who can tell you exactly what this kid's like behind the scenes. And our respect for the is as well, because when you want to really know everything about a player, go ask the trainer. As we all know, they know everything about everything. They do. They're the guys in any given dressing room. All right, Boox, go ask some people in the en route.

What's up with them there? Your really bad day is talking to us from a Kitchener en route. Yes. Boy, next time, next time, let's do it live like me walking around the office. Do a man on the street just doing interviews. With the live cam.

What do you think of the Leafs? Yeah, you're just getting killed. Pure entertainment. All right, Boots. See you, bud. Drive safe. Thanks for your time, buddy. All right, boys.

We'll see you. Thanks for having me. All right, Jason Bucho of the Pro Hockey Group and Sportsnet. Great stuff. What a guy. Yeah, what a guy. You want you to undo some game time before we go? Let's time let her rip it's game time presented by bet three six five visit the app latest odds and find out why several ordinary at bet three six five this 19 plus

Ontario only please play responsibly yes I was furiously trying to log into the or figure out how to do the futures on here because I'm so bad but just quickly it was my phone is now malfunctioning as we're quickly talking here lots of action on the ice tonight and the big one for the Leafs and for the Montreal Canadians In fact, like this like this game tonight has a ton of stakes the Montreal Canadians are plus 140 underdogs on home ice against them of them against the Florida Panthers I Give me the Panthers. I mean this could go one of two ways right that the slap shot

At the end of the game, which I tried to argue yesterday that, you know, there was still time on the clock and finding a guy 5K is a little bit weird for a shot where there's time on the clock. I think that would probably inspire the Montreal Canadiens. They're going to come out hot. Like I know they're at home. That's going to be an electric crowd. There's some hate involved. I do think there's a world where the Montreal Canadiens are big time in that game

But I think the other side of it is you could get the Florida Panthers Mine is a goal and a half at plus 150 and I don't think that's the worst bet either But no, I don't I think if you're looking to bet the Montreal Canadiens tonight I think they would be live underdogs in that game the the one thing on that game Though, you know the Canadians have the opportunity to dress Arbor Jack guy and they're not. So if they were really mad about that thing or focused on it, I think they'd throw him in. I'm gonna be talking about that after this

on Hockey Central with Don Granada, which is pretty cool. Love that. Excuse me, tonight the Calgary Flames have yet another massive game. Every game for them is the biggest of the year. They are in Utah to take on the hockey club. They're big dogs, the Utah Hockey Club, big travel for them. Taking on the the Calgary Flames minus 185 for the Utah Hockey Club tonight plus 155 for the Calgary Flames and the Moneyline there. Big value on Calgary if they think they can do it in the second

half. They have Dustin Wolf going tonight so we we'll see and the LA Kings hosting the Winnipeg Jets The LA Kings are minus 120 rare chance to get the Jets at plus money plus 100 for the jet tonight in LA And that was game time presented by bet 365 is the athlete of stars to find out why it's ever ordinary bet 365 plus 19 plus interior only please play responsibly. Well when we come back We're gonna talk to your friend in mind Dan Riccio Central our boy a lot of news about Rick talk it is he signing extending what's going on there big? suitor extension coming up here for the Puse

Anyway, I didn't say his first name because I'm not sure if it's like police sir. Yeah, I don't know how to say it So it's okay. All right when. I don't know how to say it. It's off. It's a fuse. Okay. All right. When we come back, Dan Riccio, Connect Central. All right, welcome back to Real Born and McKee. This hour of Real Born and McKee is brought to you by Bet365. Thank you for your support there. We really appreciate it. Can I tell you my favorite Twitter thing I just found is Ryan Leonard's contract, his entry level contract This year has a two hundred and seventy five thousand dollar performance bonus if he wins the cons might

Wow, you imagine being confident enough to be like and put a bonus in if I'm the best player in the whole league in the Playoffs my first year. I'd tell you I'd be quite a story. I gotta tell you that'd be worth a lot more than 275 Yeah, there's be like, yeah, we'll give you 10 million if you in the cons my who cares over you'd personally give me What an incredible bonus that is? We are awaiting Dan Northease ready. Oh Do and Dan reach you of connect central. How are you pal? What's happening fellas? What's my bonus for this hit? 275 thousand dollars if it brings us in. Oh, I don't know.

Your bonus is getting to talk to your oldest buddy, Sam. We've been working. It's a good enough bonus for me. Get a new agent. We've been working together, literally my first day at the station. And what year would that have been? I don't know. Way longer ago than I wanted it to be. I started in 2009. Oof. So I probably would have been like 2011, 2012 and I remember doing some around there. Yeah. Screening Raptors postgame calls and I didn't

know how to like punch in the phones and Riccio was working the board and I was freaking out and Eric Smith was not pleased with me. It was not a great scene. It was not a great scene. And now look at us. It's just a typical day at the office. Yeah, yeah, that was tough. That's great. Well, we appreciate you coming on. We have been dabbling in Canucks conversations. We had joked that our first conversation or question to you might be just a umbrella year-long

question. What's happening over there? Boy, I think it really all goes back to the beginning of the year. You know, lately it's, it's kind of like expectations have come so far down for the Canucks that you're like, all right, you know, bunch of young kids, bunch of injuries and they're punching above their weight, still playing pretty well, given the jets, a good game on Sunday. And it's just, it's rough right now, you know, without alias, Pedersen and Filipino out of the lineup, you're down your top two centerman

Queen Hughes is playing at less than a hundred percent. You just can't have the biggest expectations for what this team is as currently constructed. But you go back to the beginning of the season and expectations were, well, they're going to do better than they did last year, right? When they took Edmonton to game seven of the second round and they've gotten nowhere close and it really went off the rails right from the start. Obviously, whatever was happening behind the scenes had a big effect on that and they've never been able to get it back and going ever since all of that happened in December and January with the Leah's Pederson and JT Miller.

Yeah. So I guess if you were going to like do the sports talk radio thing and like place the blame somewhere, where would it be? Like it feels like there's so many different places, injuries, a very high profile spat between the teams, two best players, Quinn Hughes, you know, missing time when it was that most crucial them talking about him flying into the four nation Quinn Hughes is coming. Remember that? That was insane. Like where does the talk? It's been taken some heat. I see on my Canucks Twitter. Like where does it lie? Honestly, I do think it goes back to Miller and Pedersen and whatever exactly it was that

happened between those two, you know, of course injuries played a big factor. They didn't have Dakota Joshua from the start of the year. Philip pronick missed two months when he was at this time. Dr. Demko's barely played. They've had a ton of injuries and to big players throughout the course of the year, JT Miller, even he took the 10 game absence before he eventually got traded. But all of that, you think about the commitment that the team had last year, the way they defended, how hard they played for Rick talk and how they won that Pacific division title. We didn't see that at the start of the year. They were getting results early on. They kind

of kept the smoke and mirrors thing going through early November. And then I think they had three wins in all of the December.. Really the cracks started to show they were getting blown out on home ice when they hardly ever got blown out last year when Rick Tocket won the Jack Adams. They just did not have the same level of buy-in and now really since the Miller trade they've gotten that back. I don't want to put this on Miller because there's plenty of blame to go around in the whole situation, but whatever it was that got into that room and how deep that spat between Miller and Pedersen got,

it affected the way the team played on the ice. And I don't think you can separate how this team played early in the season from where they've ended up here and how that element of this season plays a factor into that. So to go back and forth from positives to negative because there's lots of negatives that we could talk about but it's Quinn Hughes.

It's Quinn Hughes the best player in the league because I honestly I read night I watch them and I love when they're on the East Coast because I like East Coast Quinn Hughes as opposed to PST Quinn Hughes but I mean he's one of the main reasons I have any chance in every game I watch. Like he just has the puck the entire time he's on the ice. He plays all of every overtime, like every overtime he's out there for four of the minutes. I, you know, if they ever found a way and it's going to be impossible now, what are their chances to make the playoffs? But he is a legit MVP candidate for me. I love watching him play. He's unbelievable. Yeah. They don't even, they're well out of the playoffs without Quinn Hughes this year.

I mean, the season is, was, would have been cooked in December if, if it were not for Quinn Hughes and the way that he's played this season, he's, he's an unbelievable talent. And I do think, you know, we never really, we don't often see defensemen have the capability to be talked about in the, the Connor McDavid sort of range, the Nathan McKinnon sort of range, but Hughes and McCarr are there the way that they can dominate a game. And certainly Hughes, because he's does it as a one man show. McCarr has McKinnon to work off of. Whereas Hughes, it's like, yeah, I'm going to have the puck for four plus minutes a night when I'm on the ice. When nobody else in the league is above three, usually it's just, it's an absolutely insane thing to watch the way that Quinn Hughes controls a game,

but the injuries have really affected him lately. And I think you see it more on the defensive end than anything else. Since he's returned from that injury that kept him out of the four nations, the cadets have been outscored 14 10 with him on the ice. Before that, they were, I think plus 20 at five on five with, with Quinn Hughes on the ice. So it's been a drastic difference. He just hasn't been able to defend as hard. You see it when he gets into battles, they try to shelter him as much as they can away from those kinds of things, but he's still everything to this team. And if he gets back to it, you know, they might just win out the season and find a way to sneak in. So do you think there's any chance like if they don't, if it's, they

lose a couple here and it goes down to 0.1% or whatever that he just stops playing that they like just kind of shut them down here. I think it's going to be ultimately Quinn Hughes's decision, but I wouldn't be surprised. So he's clearly not at a hundred percent. I don't know what percentage he is on it. At one point, Rick Tocque was like, we're not going to play him if he's, if he's below 80%, but I'm like, are we sure about that? Is your own number to pick? Are we sure about this? I don't know. But you know, again, he's just clearly not there.

And I think as soon as they're out of the playoffs, you might see Quinn Hughes get shut down for the season. But I think ultimately the competitor that he is, it's going to come down to how he feels about it. All right. Well, talk it is at the center of the news of the day. You know, Elliot put out a story today saying that, you know, the Canucks are saying behind the scenes that talk, it's either going to play out his, you know the the Canucks are saying behind the scenes that talk it's either gonna play out his you know sign extension or they're gonna activate the

they have the option right for for talking next year where are things that with talk it and coaching bank one year coaching contracts always go I think right now talk it going all the way back we asked him first about it on Kenoch Central in September when we were at training camp in Penticton. And even then he had sort of the same mantra mindset. I'm not worried about it. We'll figure it out at the end of the year. So his, he's always been consistent in his messaging when he's asked about his contract. But I do think this comes down to a couple of things when they do get down and dirty with the negotiation

of it all money, you know, is he going to get paid at the top end, which is about 5 million. He's got the Jack Adams. So I don't know if he gets into the Mike Sullivan, John Cooper range of salary for coaches, but he's probably above 4 million with what he's put on paper as the Canucks head coach and the Canucks, unless they're playing multiple head coaches, like they were when they had talk at Boudreaux and Travis green still on the payroll at one time, they generally don't go into that range of what they pay their head coaches. So I think that's going to be something that's a, a part of the negotiation, but also a bigger part of this, not just on the money end of things is how does talk and feel about the situation? Does he, it's been a trying year as we've discussed everything that he's

had to deal with off the ice, not so much about the X's and O's this year as a coach would like it to be. So how does that affect the way that he feels about the future in Vancouver? How does he look at the situation with quid Hughes? What does that look like beyond his current contract, which has got two years remaining after this one? And obviously the biggest question is, does he think he can win with Alias-Peterson as his number one center?

And I think that's a big part of, when they talk about the future and how they're going to make sure that whatever happened this season doesn't happen again, how do they try to tackle that when they get to their exit meetings at the end of the season? Yeah. So, and there's also the little cared out there of his, you know, the Flyers Hall of

Famer with the opening with the Philadelphia Flyers here after Torz got shown the door. Yeah. But I mean, like that's everybody's making that connection. On that, I think like what happened today and what Elliott reported today? And we've talked about it on Canucks and sad is reported as well you know the Canucks are using that option year as A way of staving off any potential interest. Yeah, they're saying, you know, we're gonna pick up the option and then you know If Rick talk it doesn't want to coach well, then he's not gonna be coaching for anybody

so it's their way of putting their foot down and saying Rick talk it It doesn't want to coach. Well, then he's not going to be coaching for anybody. So it's their way of putting their foot down and saying, Rick, talk, it is ours and everybody else can back back up. But to my, my point is, is like, you want to go coach. I watched that flyers team the other night. Like they reek. I know, I know, I know they have like a bunch of picks coming up here and he's a flyer hall of famer and maybe a bill into the build into this role, but like you can picture next year year the Canucks being back to being a playoff team. Like the pieces are there. Quinn Hughes still plays their her own. They're still got a good top pair.

They got a good goalie when he plays Demko, a good backup option in Lankton and who's capable and showed great at this time. Pedersen's been brutal this year, but like that could turn around. They have pieces to me. The only reason the Flyers thing is like any sort of attractiveness is just because he's a flyer Hall of Fame or going home. He knows Keith Jones. Like, do you want to just stink or do you want to like actually coach a team that has a chance to make the playoffs and compete in the playoffs? I know what I would pick. And it's the Vancouver

situation. I know it was crazy this year, but it's not going to be like that two years in a row. Is it? I don't know. No Miller. Is it? Is it like, I don't know. No, it's it's I mean, the Connucks is still a better situation. I mean, the Flyers, whoever whoever gets hired for the Flyers is probably gone in two or three years when they're more ready to compete. Yeah, and they are as currently constructed. You know, the Flyers, they've got some good prospects. You know, they've got the flyers, they've got some good prospects. You know, they've got obviously Mitch cough. They got some good defenseman coming, but like, you know, you talk about having a number one center. I know like Elias Pedersen, there's a lot of questions there, but he's still a guy who scored a hundred points in the league. He scored close to 40 goals in the league. The flyers don't even have a guy coming really that plays center that has that kind of potential and has the ability to take over a game the way we once saw Elias Pedersen do. So I would

have those questions if I'm Rick Tocque. And I know there's a deep connection there with Keith Jones, their president of hockey ops that really, you know, makes you point the dots and connect the dots in the situation. But it, you're right, Sammy. I mean, it just doesn't make a ton of sense. That flyers gig is, is one that is kind of like a, it feels like one where a guy's coaching it just to to be the guy that gets fired in two or three years time. The Bruno Caboclo of hockey teams two years away from me. Yeah. But I do think you know if that's how you feel about the Flyers is relevant. You

know you said that you like a lot about what's going on with the Canucks. Where do you see the Canucks future reach like you know in terms of guys on the way, guys who are going to stay, can Pedersen find it? You know, the, the talk at being not wanting to be there and having them do the option year thing is probably not great either. Be nice to clear up some of that stuff. So what's the direction for the Canucks if they are to miss playoffs this year? Oh man, I'd, I'd love to, to be able to see into the future, get the crystal ball, get the crystal ball going and seeing exactly how this off season plays out. The biggest thing with the

Canucks is what happens and how they keep Quinn Hughes happy to the point that come next year, next summer, he's willing to sit at the table and be like, yeah, sure. I'll take $120 million from you guys for my next eight years, because that's really what matters right now is how do we sell this future to Quinn Hughes? And you know, maybe you'd like to take a little bit of a deeper breath and try to let this breathe. Let some of your young guys like Tom Volander and Jonathan Lekker, a Mackie play out next year and see how that develops. But I don't think on Quinn Hughes's timeline, you have that opportunity. You need to make big moves this summer to set yourself back up in the conversation, to be in the playoffs and maybe

be a cup contender next year, which is a wild timeline, but you've got to get there quickly. And alias, Pedersen is the biggest part of that question. What do you get out of him? Do you keep him? I don't see how you trade him and get somebody better. So ultimately I think he stays in Vancouver. And two, what are you going to add to this roster this summer? There's not a lot of options in free agency. You're probably not keeping Brock Besser with how the trade deadline played out. I just don't see where you're getting that piece in free agency and you're going to have to trade for somebody. Do you have the pieces that other teams really want if you're going to try and acquire a top six impact player and they probably need two of them.

All right. Well, reach where before I let you go here real quick. You got eight games left for the Canucks. 16 points to take you to 97. So you probably got to win what? Seven? No, something like that. Seven. Oh, and one might do it. It's every, every game is must win. I mean, the blues are never losing again. So you're, you're catching the might, it could happen. It's probably going to happen, but if they went for more for their seven, I mean, they got that. It's it. Go ahead. But it's probably going to happen. But if they went four more for their seven, I mean, it's, it's kind of cooked anyways for the

Canucks. So you gotta, you gotta you don't you're not going to win any of the tiebreakers either in the conversation. So you got to get to at least seven wins in this in this race right now, which didn't look like it was going to need 95 points a couple of weeks ago. But with the way the blues have gone, that conversation changed, you need seven of eight, probably eight of eight, if you're going but with the way the blues have gone that conversation changed you need seven of eight Probably eight of eight if you're gonna really make it the blues got another powerhouse tonight the Detroit Red Wings So you blame this blame the schedule makers for the Canucks like yeah

I've had a cupcake for two weeks here and brutal don't have it don't have a ton of confidence in the eiser plan if I'm It has not been pretty and you got your Travis Matthew. Have you been golfing already out there? Reach? Did you come from the course? Like I just see that golf. Oh man, the cherry blossoms are out. I'm feeling the golf course calling my name every day, but the schedule has been a little too busy lately, but we'll get out there later this week. We got 35 millimeters of freezing rain apparently coming to GTA tomorrow. So cool. Cool. Yeah. Another ice storm.

Yeah. Great. All right, Rachel. Thanks for your time and we appreciate it. Cheers, fellas. All right. That's Dan Riccio of Canucks Central, 4 to 6 p.m. So do you like, I don't know, I get why like the history and the Flyers Hall of Famer,

but Rick Toggett's a competitor. I guess it comes out of what he wants. He's a incredibly competitive guy. And he saw parts of that team be really good last year. They have great pieces. If you had the choice next season to coach, there's no comparison. I don't know if there isn't.

Really? Here's why, here's why. I would say with those seven picks in the first two rounds this summer I would like to know what are you doing with those? Are you acquiring players or drafting? All right. Yeah, are you flipping those and now we're gonna add a center now We're gonna add you we're gonna get some players that I can work with or are we waiting five years for those picks to be useful? players I

also There is something to be said for stability and briie and Jones have done that for Philly, where they've calmed things down. Tort stepped out of line and started acting a little squirrely, and they were like, that's enough. Yeah, I'm seeing some of the stuff from the Chicklet guys. You see they were talking about, like, some of the stuff that was said between you. I'm not going to try to paraphrase it, but like...

Between him and York? Yeah, like, I don't know if they were... But it was pretty nasty stuff. Like, maybe bury them, like, you're not going to play, even if you sign, like, all this kind of stuff. And it's like, yeah, they were but it was pretty nasty stuff like I'm maybe bury them like you're not gonna play even if you Sign like all this kind of stuff and it's like yeah, they were like, you know what? Here's the door. Goodbye. Thanks You don't want this in a rebuild anyway, and that's fine. You know, I think right now They're doing some assessing of what are these guys like without torts? But I do think it looks like a stable place to go be the coach. And I heard Doug Armstrong talking about Jim Montgomery and saying,

you know, not often you get to be a guy who's there for sort of the turnaround and then still be the coach you want there once the team's there. Could talk and do that for Philly where you say we're going to try to turn around quick, flip some of these picks. He's definitely stability. If you would represent that if you are Brie and Keith Jones, no question.

Give him a five year contract. Because I do think if you look at Vancouver, stability has not been a word I associate with what's going on there this year, you know? Like, man, I forgot. But there's no way it could ever be as bad as it was that year. No, I think you're probably right.

Two quick things. Yes. Last time the Red Wings and the Bruins both missed the playoffs in the season. 1967. Whoa. This year. And last thing, shout out onside attack playing game three at

the Bayshore tonight. Going to be rocking. Shock the world, boys. Thank you to Jason Buchla, Dan Riccio. Who do we have in the first hour? Anthony Petrilli. Yes. Thanks to everyone. We will be back on Thursday. Yep. It's me and McKee. We'll see you then.