Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Cook the Ducks

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee discuss the Maple Leafs' dominating 7-0 win over the Anaheim Ducks, including Alex Kerfoot finally having a positive impact, if Pontus Holmberg has played well enough for the Leafs to let David Kämpf walk, and if Dallas Eakins should be fired. Then, former NHL goalie Mike McKenna (42:27) joins the show to talk about Alex Ovechkin reaching the milestone of 800 career goals and tells the story of when Ovi scored on him and did the "Stick on Fire" celebration. Later, cohost of the Rink Wide: Vancouver podcast Jeff Paterson (1:07:10) discusses the limitations in Bo Horvat's game, what he would cost in a trade and the problems with the Vancouver Canucks. Lastly, the Bruins are unbeatable, and Samsonov is finally awarded with the Leafs championship belt.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. To say that the Toronto Maple Leafs beat Anaheim last night wouldn't do it justice. Ugh. That was a shellacking. Welcome to the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. I'm Nick Kiprios,in born derrick brandeo sammy mckee and we welcome back jen rolnick hey big wave from jen was that an straight up trade frank the tank for jen rolnick was there anything else involved to clear waivers

back to the minors i think after she returned from injury we're gonna throw in a second to get jen back first of all we made frank the tank a star okay he ain't going back to the minors if people could see frank with his beautiful long gray locks and his you know crossfit physique i think he'd be a popular gentleman bit of a weapon that frank bit of a weapon frank could be 28 or 58 and i would not be surprised i have absolutely no clue if frank the tank's working on fallon you know next week i wouldn't be that surprised that's what we do here like is that the tank hey tank himself yes he's gone on to bigger and better things. Took over for Paul Schaefer. No questions asked. That guy's still around?

I don't know. So, Sammy. Yes, sir. I think when we ended yesterday's show, I think you threw out a prediction of 7-1, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. You Leafs hater? I can't remember.

Was it 7-0 or 7-1? It was 7-1. You gave him a goal. Crap. I should have said 7-0 or 7-1? No, it was 7-1. You gave him a goal. Crap. I should have said 7-0. But I also said Austin Matthews would score four goals and he merely got an assist. Yeah, don't, don't, listen, I've built you up there. Don't, don't, don't strip yourself back down.

Listen, I mean, I heard a lot of trap game talk. Justifiably so. People were saying that and we had the conversation like, oh, this would be a spot. The old Leafs. No, it wasn't. The Ducks are just too bad. You know what else, too? people were saying that we had the conversation like oh this would be a spot the old lease no it wasn't the ducks are just too bad you know what else too the ducks were off a tail end of a back-to-back they got shut out the night before by so that's almost as if they didn't play the night before that doesn't when you don't score the night before that doesn't count for like half a game yeah well a full game.

Well, then they have combined over those two games to play one full game. Because, yeah, they didn't score in either contest. They couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. Oh, man. I tweeted, like, do you think the trainers had to wash the equipment after the game? Like, they had to wash jerseys or they just fold them right back up for the next match? Like, that looked like we'll get into toronto but that's the type of game that gets your head coach fired oh man yes i agree in toronto in this market to lay an egg like that i mean the amount of times guys were just standing

beside the guy shooting it in the net i wrote an article today on on some of that but you know bunting's goal there's a guy standing beside him and joey anderson's goal there's a guy standing beside him john devar is his goal he's wearing a guy like a backpack you know and mitch marner's wearing zgris on his on his back for that goal too like and that's coming off of uh hiring a new general manager and pad for beak building a new uh department and you want your head coach dallas to to at least have them lose games on a better look than that yeah they have to show up you everybody knows that they don't have the talent to compete but neither do a lot of teams arizona doesn't but you should have enough to

battle and to to show that the issues with the team are on us to get more talent yeah not looking at you and saying hey guys you can't mail it in no you can't just not try look at the first goal the leafs score connor timmins is standing behind the net a set breakout so that the ducks can get into their set four check they get to pick where their players are on the ice he makes one pass to pierre engvall and it's a three on two like how does it break down that badly that quickly do they not know where to stand do they not want to do what the coach wants him to do i thought the most embarrassing part of the whole night was that story they told in the broadcast about him getting that picture taken down you

know what i said the same thing he's like it was a draw i'm like oh my god it gets joking he must have been joking that it was a draw. No, it didn't come across as a joke. I don't know. The way that she was talking about it. Anyways. Okay, hold on. There's some people that didn't hear the whole story,

so why don't you reiterate? There are pictures of him fighting. Well, the famous picture of Wendell Clark where he's looking like Ali. Just looking like a rough guy. He's got the hand in front of him, and there's a Winnipeg jet lying on the ground. Dallas Eakins is the guy that Wendell Clark fought in a team picture where Wendell's up, Dallas is down. The helmet's kind of like down over his face a little bit on Wendell. It's famous. They reported that Dallas didn't like the picture because it didn't kind of show the whole story of the fight.

Yeah. Yeah. So he asked them to whole story of the fight. Yeah. Yeah. So he asked them to remove it off the wall? Yeah. This is the picture, yeah. It's a great picture. It is. That one's hanging in a lot of man caves across Canada.

So he had the picture removed, and he came back now, and there's still a picture up, and it's like, oh. I heard that, and I was like, oh heard that i was like oh my god i was cringing yeah and the the shots of him on the bench he looked like a man what are you supposed to do last night that's the horrible thing like they're just obviously they hate playing hockey they're going into every different rink they're getting spanked by everyone they don't win ever and what do you tell what does he go into the locker room after the second period and say well how many times can you go in and say have some pride have some pride in your own career have some pride and you know where do you want to be in this

league and you know what are we you know there's right i mean you're in the nhl and it wasn't uh that far removed where we saw this team beat the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. And Zegres on a really good effort in overtime if my six concussions aren't kicking in right now. Shot it into the net. Over Shulgren. But last night he did play, right? Last night Zegres did play.

He did. He had one shot. It was minus two. I thought his most meaningful contribution was when he actually was pissed off at David Kampf and he gave him a little shot in the lower back with the stick. And then David Kampf kind of shouldered him in the head and there was a little bit of a scrum. First time you noticed him.

100%. And for a guy that has Michigan-like moves, that should not happen not happen well we mentioned it yesterday though it's just like it's impossible to look good on that team it is playing with no structure wait you're supposed they have i don't buy that for one second he's too talented and he can find ways to stand out uh in his shifts kipper the marner goal i'm gonna i'm gonna pull up things intermittently while we're chatting but the marner goal zegras is flying the zone i don't have it up but he's flying the zone as the weak side wing as the puck comes around looking for whatever cheating cheating and then so when it gets turned over marner's you know got easy access to the net

and he's he's on his hip and this is the stuff we had Niedermeyer on yesterday. Who's like part of what he's doing is working with the young guys and basically trying to convince them that it's not just about, you know, doing fancy stuff and demonstrating your skill, but helping your team win hockey games. And last night, no one was helping their team win hockey games. John Klingberg last night,

minus four. Yeah. I was supposed to be, would you trade it? I didn't even know. Would you trademons for clingberg straight up salaries notwithstanding three salaries notwithstanding three assists for one guy minus four for the other there might be something to him playing pretty good against ahl level competition well that's yeah so the ducks last night represent ahl and a half like a team between the ahl and nhl and clingberry sorry i was i was just gonna say like

there should be a division two right actually that was the postgame show that's what jd said division two you can't tell me that last year yeah we've done it last year elite league yeah we did yeah the elite league they're not in it no they're they're not in the elite league but the other guy one other leaf had three points last night if i'm not mistaken do you know who it was sammy if i already told you don't say it no kerfoot had two yeah but he didn't have three points no the other guy was pontus holmberg so you got timmons and holmberg with three points each leading the way for the leafs kerfoot scores twice engvall gets on the board it really is it's an hl half team where those guys have an easier time you know compared to and by the way neil andrew who used to get a hard time

for racking up points against the easy competition bagels yeah i think that actually is good for him me too he's the only toronto maple leaf if i'm not mistaken oh no there's there's actually another line where the guys the camp mog and reese line didn't uh so that in itself is a good sign outside of yeah it's anaheim is that you're really starting to see some balance out of uh the bottom six now for for being more of a threat here. And they're nice goals. Yeah. I mean, when you see Engvall going top shelf, it's not a bad look right now.

No, good for their confidence for sure. And I think we actually have Sheldon on that since we're talking about it. To me, though, I feel like i'm being the pessimistic one here though but with that's the dream game for pierre angvall and kerfoot let's go kerfoot in there like a bad team playing with zero physicality letting those two guys fly through the neutral zone no it has to be said like i'm sorry yeah i mean it's hard to really measure you know like it's good i think it's good the confidence factor that you see it go in the

net you're feeling good maybe that carries over but you're going to play the new york rangers next it's not going to look like that it is funny though it was reminiscent of like taking a dog to a dog park like you got like an aussie shepherd or something and throw they're just like oh my god it's just having a field day out there last night um but yeah so keith Keefe on the bottom six contributing, I think, is the clip. What are you going to do? Not score, right? You can only play who you're playing. That's right.

Yeah, I think it's great for their confidence. You know, I think a lot of those guys you mentioned have been doing a really good job for us. They haven't necessarily gotten rewarded for it offensively, but have done a lot of really good things. Through games like this, maybe you can get some traction with some guys and you're able to get them on the ice more, get a little more rhythm for them. I thought

Holmberg's third period was outstanding both ways. Made plays with the puck. Some of the defensive plays and getting back and winning pucks back were great. It was nice to see Julie Anderson score a goal. I thought that line in the third period was really, really good. You know, Engvall scores, Kerfoot just a couple.

You know, they get us going in the game. So, you know, it was good all the way around. And Timmons, you know, has been moving the puck really efficiently for us here again tonight. Did the same thing. Every single player we have on the sheet is a plus, plus one or better here tonight. So it's a good team win. You know, on the Holmberg thing, the guy is,

he's been playing in that SHL, the Swedish Elite League or whatever, since 2018. Like, he's been playing men. He's 23 years old. Is there a chance they found a guy here that, like, is going to be on in the playoffs and a part of this i every every game yeah my eyes draw to him more and more and there's no question in mind last night as i'm watching the game uh he will be the reason why you will say

goodbye to david camp next year wow my thoughts exactly wow that they have developed really yes developed david cam yeah a hundred percent and camp's been great it's been superb but there you don't need to pay camp 10 million bucks no yeah two and a half two seven five to three million for for three years when you got this guy is coming up here's the tricky part here i don't like what you're doing by the way what making you think no well that too but i also i also love david camp so okay all right here's the other thing though that may factor in this correct me if i'm wrong and i need you to verify this but i talked to somebody last night and it didn't dawn on me until he mentioned it where is where's uh home holmberg's contract situation because you did mention that he is

a little older yeah and if i'm not mistaken he may need a new contract next year yes pontus holmberg's current situation is he oh yeah he's 825 he's an rfa after this season there you go so if we are in the world guys of the cap only going up a million dollars next year which we think it's going i mean there's always a chance they can negotiate with the players association and find a way to artificially bump this thing up four million bucks but don't like the chances from what i'm hearing seem likely would there be another team out there that could see homberg continue to develop and say yeah i'll offer sheet them i just think it's unlikely i'm just saying yeah i'm just saying if offer sheets happened in this league, yes. Yeah, but they're crazy right now with the pressure of no cap room.

We are in the world of hedging. Yeah. And we saw Kevin Adams down the street in Buffalo maybe pull off one of the best heists in hedging with Tage Thompsonompson again two goals last night off one timers and did you see his opening goal off the face off yeah it's a laser beam this guy is like off the charts third in the league in scoring now he is locked in at seven one at 7-1. I can't be right. No, no, you're right. I know it's right.

7-1. Yeah. Which means that Kevin Adams for the next four or five years has arguably a $3 million advantage to other top-paying teams,

players, to go out and add around T.H. Thompson. Yeah, well well that's what the Bruins have done for so long with their top guys, right? But it's going to trickle down. It will trickle down to the fact that other general managers have to hedge

and it Like as in guys are going to guess longer term on guys developing who haven't proved it per se. And if you can turn around and look at a pontus and go i'm i'm willing to give that guy two and a half million next year i think i think it would be on an rfa the return would be like a third round pick if i'm not

mistaken yeah his salary is so minuscule it yeah it'd be a late rounder i'm sure so is that crazy to think that that could happen to me it is really well yeah you need more of a sample size i think i think this is the type of guy that is one of those under the radar they'll be like yeah here's two years two million he's under the radar not in toronto but no but i don't like i think we're the first ones having a real yes meaningful pontus holmberg contract conversation in the history of sports. I don't think it's a big talked about thing. I think this is something where he's been just going by from my optics and what I see, I see a guy quickly developing into a good depth player.

The one thing I will hear in particular is I know a lot of analytics people are pushing their management to offer sheet guys like this guys who it doesn't cost a lot to you know in terms of acquisition cost but it's a good low-end bet and teams who are up against the cap may not want to match two and a half million to pontus holmberg buries your cap if you're the leafs you're like i had to pay and i had to pay like listen i love holmberg but good luck cap if you're the Leafs. You're like, I had to pay camp and I had to pay. Like, listen, I love Holmberg, but good luck with Pontus. To me, if they gave Holmberg a similar contract. One-four. Yeah, around the camp contract would be the ideal situation. Yeah.

Now let me ask you something, though. Yes. Based on what you've seen so far on the early returns on where Sandin and Lilligren have gone. Should they have gone long? Would someone have offer sheeted them at 2-2 or 2-5 for a third rounder? And can we draw up the compensation again? Am I right with $2.5 million on a third rounder?

Compensation NHL. I haven't looked at this in 100 years. Well, you should. Sam looks up stats brought to you by? I don't know. We're making that up. We have teams in jail, guys, in a salary cap. Toronto is no different than many of them.

1 to 1.3 is no compensation. 1.3 to 2.1 approximately is one third round pick. 2.1 to 4.2 is one second round pick and then it goes up to 4.2, one first. They'd probably offer him 2.099 or something. A second rounder is

significant for sure on a guy that you may not be considered. I don't think you'd have to go with a high kipper. I think you could offer him that number number 2.1 and the Leafs would still go. We can't do 2.1 for Ponda Solenberg. They would do it. The Leafs would. Yes,

I would. I would believe that they would match that because you're really all in on this guy. I like, I like to forecast and project, but can you not get camp at around 2-1? No. Like how far off is he?

No, he's 2-7. All right, well, we're close here. Half a million dollars is huge in the world of... But bring Kampf to me and we'll talk AAV here. We'll talk years, you know? All right. What if he did 2.2 and we'll give you five years at that? You know, like something...

You're nuts. I know. No one's paid listen we we think yarn croc was kind of goofy at four years yeah there's an interesting comparable for camp can get the yarn croc deal yeah so anyways listen that's just i don't want to beat it up forever here but my point is i like holmberg I like where he's headed. He is one of those guys where I say, you can win with that guy rounds in the Stanley Cup playoffs. He plays heavy.

He's strong. He's smart. Took the puck to the net a couple times last night. Took the puck to the net. He can remind me more of a Palat or Cologne type of body frames. I'm not saying they're the same players or they'll have the same success but

you're tired of playing against those guys in game four, five or six because they are heavier and they lean on you and it just gets tiresome. And people are tired of hearing us talk about Dennis Mulligan and you you know, Robertson and these light guys that Keefe is like Nick Patan, whatever. Here's a guy they brought, they drafted, they developed,

they brought up, we like. Third line center. Sixth round draft pick. There you go. Yeah. Yeah, he's winning me over. Should we stick with the bottom six and do some Alexlex kerfoot love

love to hear that sure alex kerfoot shoots two in the net last night one of them he just one-timed it past john gibson and you know he he looked like i don't know an all-star last night pretty good pretty good player coming out of a slump a little bit he hasn't been scoring at the rate he expected to this season but we talked talked about it before we came on air. The Leafs love this guy. Very popular. He's a union rep, and he's a part of the leadership group, and everyone, you know, we talk,

I think he's the fantasy football commissioner. He's everyone's boy. So good to see him get a couple of goals. Let's listen to Sheldon Keefe talk about Alex Kerfoot. Again, I think he's another guy, you know, that he's a better player than his production would show and he's played better than his production would show as well. He still plays important minutes for

us. We've been winning a lot of games and we focus so much on the offensive production. We want everybody to produce. We want depth scoring and all of those kind of things but there's so many things that happen beyond the scoring that are that are so important to contribute to team wins and that's it right he played 18 and a half minutes last night he plays

a lot of minutes he plays on different lines kills penalties yeah i know let's have it sammy the only question is does he have the sandpaper to go up again against the Tampa Bay Lightning and find a way to be a guy that can contribute into beating them out? That's the only question I've asked from the moment I've watched Kerfoot. I just, I think this is a classic guy to me. That would be a salary cap non-existent conversation that we wouldn't even really talk about him ever be happy to have him you know he's a guy that you'd mix in your

bottom six and he's make but the fact that he makes outside of the big four and morgan riley does he have the biggest you know he's three and a half million i guess and tj brody's up there some of the defense guys but he's got a big ticket i have defended the guy in the past i've said that he's kind of a necessary guy to have he's a swiss army knife whatever you want to say about him i just i just i think it may be just been watching him for too long now where it's i don't think you guys give him enough credit i think i well listen the guys he plays with every night are saying he's underrated he's uh this so it's like who am i to tell mitch marner that i think he's no good and he shouldn't be on the team anymore but if they trade if he was part of a big trade of the deadline they needed a contract to get a i'm not going to be heartbroken to see him go no and last

night it's all great i just think he can do everything he can do everything and except for finishing close but but you know like he's they put him everywhere in the lineup they use him all over he's smart and here's what kills me is he made a mistake or two mistakes in the postseason last year. So, you know, that's fresh and it's come up on the show a number of times. I mean, he took a bad penalty, but is he a guy who takes bad penalties? He's not. Those are, but the thing is, you know, moments like that. He might be a guy that takes bad penalties in the playoffs because he's asked to do something

he doesn't want to do. And that's go finish checks. I don't know i i mean did you see that trend throughout the playoffs or i know it's only seven games uh him not really knowing how to finish a check i think it was against headman and he brought his stick up and i think i had to do with more him being nervous or apprehensive against a bigger guy it's not his game. It's not his game. Yeah. To me, I think it's a one-off play from Alex Kerfoot. And I get. So here's the thing about that, though.

Yeah. Fans, this is how you earn the love and earn the hate of fans in any sport. Look at Harry Kane, the most popular guy in England. The Leafs' job aren't to pick fan favorites. The Leafs' job is over the moon. Their job is not to pick the most likable team. I'm just saying that, like, there's not no reason that Leaf fans don't like Kerfoot. There's not no reason.

I agree. And it shouldn't be money. There's not no reason. No, there's not no reason. Yeah, thanks, Jen. No, that does make sense. No, there's not no reason. We get what you're trying to say there, English major.

Thank you. What was that, Hemingway? No, but, I mean, there's a reason. There is a reason that he's not a fan favorite. But, you know, their job is to win. And they see him play 17 and a half minutes a night and play in special teams and play on all four lines. You need guys come April on that need to find ways to go through people kerfoot's and i'm around you player no argument and they've got a lot of going around you players

yep kerfoot's needs to be that swiss army knife that can do both and he doesn't he's just not built that way yeah they're not they haven't been built to get out of the first round either no and hey that that is a fair criticism of the maple leafs in their construction it's not to me a fair criticism of is alex kerfoot worth three and a half valuable to the team you know a guy who could win be on a team that wins in the playoffs yeah so if they had other people it's not his fault he's not that player and if there were other players who were that player would you love kerfoot like phil kessel was the dog until he was on a team that had people that could make up for what he didn't have but yeah but phil kessel sure sure it's not that you

obviously you need you need a you need that that perfect team for a guy like Kerfoot to not need to finish his checks yeah that's what you're saying sure it's not like you can't go through Colorado's lineup last year and find you know Andrew Cogliano or Darren Helm or whoever's whichever smaller guy that plays a grittier bottom six role and can chip in like those guys exist yeah he's he shouldn't have to apologize for not being the player i'm describing but i see your point that it's like you're looking for where are the issues with the leafs and that you know in the past yeah that's been an issue and he has been one of those players like a few more that just can't find a way every once in a while on a particular shift to go through you and that's still the NHL Stanley Cup playoffs yeah you have to have to add some of that have to

in the bottom like I know Kipper you're obsessed or not obsessed it's the wrong word it sounds mean for some reason I don't know why I said that but you're excited about the idea of adding a defenseman to me there, they're eight guys deep. Yeah, no, listen, it's changed. It has changed. They're eight guys deep. Like, the priority is guy who scores for the top six and a bruiser for the bottom six. Those are the two things they need desperately.

You know, people are having a conversation. I feel like Trump right now. People are saying that Morgan Rielly, you know, what do you do with him? Yeah, Morgan Riley has not been a part of this amazing resurgence and it's making people go, wait, is he dispensable? He's not dispensable. That's not what I'm saying. Well, and that's what people are saying.

You know, it's like there are people wondering about Riley. When he comes back, how does he fit? Is he on power play one? Does he play left wing? Didn't we get a tweet about this? Yeah, somebody tweeted us and asked us if he should play left wing with Margaret Tavares. They need a left winger.

They seem fine on the back end. Listen, we're talking about games against Detroit and San Jose and L.A. Kings. Did you see L. see la kings last night they lost by an unconverted touchdown to the sabers couple field goals maybe maybe as bad as anaheim last night i'm not sure i didn't watch but come on a struggling calgary team that's too slow right now to be considered a top contending team no you're right though the teams that they where are all these people saying we don't need morgan riley on the blue line anymore

the top the two teams they played that look good they played against the tampa bay lightning yes they had an impossible time getting the puck out of their own zone against but that was without tj brody that was with mac mac hollowell in the lineup and then against the dallas stars who they did beat for nothing but i still had thought they had a tough time breaking the puck out and those are two real teams during that they miss morgan against the good teams so okay so yeah yeah and we are again i mean we've been very crystal clear we think think half the league stinks. Yeah, that's a fair assessment. We do. Maybe three quarters.

Honestly, boys, the three good teams are with the Leafs. It's like the Leafs, they're all in the same division. Sick league, Gary. We've got a super NHL league. Yeah, great. And we've got a really loaded Division II league. Sure. So need more sample size before people start, you know,

saying let's move Morgan Riley to the left wing. I know. We own San Jose and Anaheim. I will say, though, I'm very happy about the tradition. Sorry. I'm happy about the tradition. I apologize for that. I'm happy about the tradition. I apologize for that. I'm happy.

Pouring it on some poor guy. I'm happy about the tradition of people wanting to move Leafs defensemen to forward. Because this happened when I was a kid. Remember Caberle has a conversation. Maybe you should try him at forward. And then it moved to Jake Gardner. You know who would be a good forward? Jake Gardner.

And now it's Morgan. McCabe. McCabe. McCabe. McCabe. And now, you know, Morgan Riley a good forward? Jake Gardner. And now it's Morgan. McCabe. McCabe. McCabe. And now, you know, Morgan Riley, he's pretty good offensively. Maybe he'd be a good forward. Not everyone's Brent Burns, folks. All right, where do you guys want to go?

Samsonov not allowed a goal in 152 minutes, 34 seconds. I just wanted to say, we literally skipped over Alex Ovechkin getting 800 goals on top of the show. We'll get to him. We'll get to him. We'll stick with the Leafs. We'll go back to him. We'll do that later. Let's stick with the Leafs first. Well, first, he's got lots of personality, you know, and that's –

It's on. He's fun to be around. He's fun to talk to. But I think what really stands out is just, you know, the work that he's put in since he's arrived in our facility and how he's embraced the program when i say that it's i mean that's scully coach strength coach it's it's uh a performance team it's uh nutritionist like it's all all the way through um he has embraced everything that we've

brought to him and everything we've asked him to do. And then he's put the work in. And I think he feels good about where he's at with his game. And he's done a good job getting through the injury and getting back here now. And it was really good today. His first period was excellent. And then big save in the second period on the breakaway. It's still 2-0. And then I thought the team took care of him from there.

And it was really good. So you just play. We'll take care of the rest for you. We've got everybody here. I did note, though, I did think it was worthy to mention that he said, like, he's listened to everything we brought to him, including nutritionist, you know, that sort of thing. And at the start of the season,

that was something that we said that we had heard in Washington. not in shape was what was the commitment to the position the professionalism you know off the ice and so if he is been like oh man this is a reality check i'm 25 and if i don't get it together i'm not going to be in this league maybe you're getting an elite goaltender who has suddenly found a low level of professionalism. By the way, first in the NHL in goals against average, Samsonov. First in the NHL in save percentage, Samsonov. We're going to have Mike McKenna in about 15 minutes, daily face-off

hockey analyst. Does a terrific job. He's going to talk about Samsonov and where this goaltending duo heads towards Christmas and the new year. And then Jeff Patterson will also join us in the second hour. We're going to get into a little Bo Horvat talk around the Vancouver Canucks.

But Samsonov will not go tomorrow night against the New York Rangers. We expect him to play Saturday against the Washington Capitals and Ovechkin. That game is in Washington. Does that play out the way you see it? That way we've got Matt Murray against the Rangers tomorrow night. And then that's set up for Matt Murray against Tampa Bay next Tuesday.

I don't know. Saturday night, hockey night in Canada, we're going to be Samsonov? Yeah, because it's against Washington. They're playing them against a former team. Oh, yeah, okay. It is nice that Ovechkin got 800 out of the way. We don't have to do that all Saturday night. But, I mean, if he's got 801 going into.

Oh, yeah, Gordie Howe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all that. Which, I mean, listen, boys. I've been cheering for this team long enough to know that. He's getting a one and a two. No, I think they play someone tomorrow night. And then their next game is Saturday against Lease. He's getting one tomorrow.

And then he's tying it. All right. We got about seven minutes. Listen, did you watch last night? I watched enough to know Yeah, I saw the goals So, I mean, when we were talking before pregame We were like, okay, Ovechkin, that's a big deal

That's a story, I probably should have opened up the show But we got into the Anaheim State Well, we had to get to the Holmberg And we had a huge Huge story All the 800 Holmbergs RFA deal We were like, ugh Relief show But, you know, there's also that huge story. All the 800 Holmbergs RFA deal. We were like, oh.

Relief show. But, you know, there's also that whole thing about, you know, Ovi doing this incredible thing and then, you know,

we've had conversations earlier, me and you, about the whole thing about Ovi and where he stands, you know, during the war and his picture with Putin still on his Instagram and that is clearly left a sour taste in your in you know when when it comes to

you talking about Ovechkin and I'm not saying that I'm not with you on that because it's out there and it's real and it's affecting lives and everybody's got this political view on it but you know i i am also a guy that can kind of um what's the term compartment compartmentalize this and i i've been able to do that and i know it's a little tougher for you yeah well it is interesting and i think the nhl recognizes the conflict because you know it's a little tougher for you. Yeah, well, it is interesting, and I think the NHL recognizes the conflict because it's not like they've been going crazy promoting the chase for 800 or trying to catch Gordie Howe for Ovi.

I mean, they're in a position, and I only bring this up because I think it's going to make it interesting in how Ovi is covered over this chase for Gretzky. Right now, the U.S. is sending Patriot defense missiles to the Ukraine to beat back the Russian

onslaught led by this dictator that Ovechkin openly supports. And his profile picture is him and this guy, this murderous dictator that the U.S. is actively fighting against. He is in the capital in Washington, D.C.

It's wild. Oh, it's wild. The conflict is massive. I think there's a ton of compartmentalizing. We're struggling with compartmentalizing. I know it is. But we understand. There's not no reason I'm saying that one, boys.

I think there's a ton of that going on. Listen, everyone's celebrating and everyone's talking about him scoring that goal last night. It's not like it's 500 goals or 600. It's 800 goals. I know, but listen. No, no, and what I'm getting at is like it's an incredible accomplishment. Which is hard. Of the charts.

But I am more on Borny's side of it here where it's like i don't feel i don't cheering for him not to get it and we're not punishing him necessarily for just being russian we just talked about ilya samsonov and how much everyone loves him here and we'll play some funny quotes from him in a bit it's you know the open support not just support but like you know campaigning for this guy who is leading this murderous charge so it's it's different than the other russians yeah i don't you'll get no argument from me but i just i know we should i just see it for its face value. And it's one of the most incredible. And I feel bad for the game that it has this over its head. For sure.

It's a bummer for the league. And in many ways, it just won't happen again. I don't think it'll ever happen again it certainly wouldn't will never happen again real kippern born season 18 season 18 with austin matthews in the chase or what not with one player one team his whole career yeah it's just so special on so many levels and it's almost as if it's it's still an open-ended thing on how mainstream media will handle this moving forward and you know if if this war continues how much of it is on the forefront how much is kind of covered by mainstream media how much is it not does the nhl dictate how hard they push based on the temperature

of of the whole story on a daily basis do they do they gauge what's out there sentiment push harder ovechkin's uh charge or do they back it off i wish you know for so many reasons we could just celebrate it because hockey fans deserve that after following one of the greats who's been heralded as one of the greats forever. And he is the greatest goal scorer in history.

He is. Sammy's got his, how many games it took him? He's not the greatest goal scorer in history. Who is? Wayne Gretzky is the greatest goal scorer in history because he has the most goals. Yeah. You know, but if he doesn't get hurt, he's going to pass him and he will become

the only 900 goal scorer in NHL history if he stays healthy. And you're right. It may still not happen. But Gretzky would be the first one to say he's way better goal scorer than I ever was think about ovechkin's prime where he went from 200 goals to 300 goals in 178 games he went from 300 to 400 and 162 games

700 800 162 games still on his prime scoring pace it is unbelievable five behind you know connor mcdavid and jason robertson and and he's 15 years older than these guys years older and he looks like he's been drinking a keg of beer every night i don't know how long i'm not sure what's more impressive scoring on an empty net or scoring on Peter Mrazik. He scored three on Mrazik last night. Is this not equivalent to, I guess, Hank Aaron, all-time home runs and stuff like that? And I think of Cal Ripken Jr. passing Lou Gehrig for consecutive games. Like this is like. So, this is why the league is Homer Simpson-ing into the bushes right now

because they hope that it blows over enough that by the time he's actually in the quest, they can sell it and promote it. And everyone's kind of forgot about the war, right? Like, I think they're crossing their fingers it happens slower than quicker. And that's, I mean, it's similar conversation with the World Cup of Hockey, what they're crossing their fingers it happens slower than quicker. It's a similar conversation with the World Cup of Hockey, what they're hoping for as well. By 2025, no one will care about that. It's a very different conversation.

One quick more thing on Ovi for you guys. About the on-the-ice stuff. SportsCenter stats put out the most goals by Ovechkin versus opposing goalies. They put out four names. How many of those names do you think you can name? The four goalies he scored on the most got to be in his division against...

They're really good goalies. Mark-Audrey Fleury. Number one. Is Fleury? 25 goals on Fleury. Henry Lundqvist. Twice, that's right. Second.

24. Look at that division. This one's out of division. Team he loves playing against. The Leafs haven't This one's out of division. Team he loves playing against. The Leafs haven't had one goalie long enough. You won't get one of them, the other one. Okay, you want to just go with that? No, no, no, no, no.

Kipper's going to use Google right now. No, I'm not Googling. I'm just looking at teams right now. So I want to say uh i want to say while you're doing this i'm going to give you something someone just sent me ovi has 800 goals in 1305 games matthew says 274 goals in 473 at this pace he would have more goals than ovi in as many games long ago nope okay that was a decent guess in florida oh right yeah uh the last two are carrie price where he loves playing always was on trail and carrie letnan how about lundquist flurry and carrie letna wasn't a bad goalie in his day too so the old thrasher days there in that division

and thanks to robin strathroy for that austin matthews ahead of ovi's pace by per game score all right did he ever score on mckenna we'll ask him for sure did ovi ever get sent down to the echl no i don't think so okay then maybe probably not but we'll ask him after the break mike mckenna from daily face off joining us next on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590, The Van. Leave it to a Greek to send me a tweet saying, and this is from Sam Daskalopoulos. Opa. Pretty sure.

Opa! Pretty sure McKenna was in net for OV's stick on fire. I mean, of all goals to be in for, if that's true, that would be unbelievable. Yes, and it wasn't in the ECHL. No, it was in the big leagues. Mike, are you hearing all of this? Yeah, I am.

Is it true? If anybody thought Ovi ever played in the ECHL, they got another thing coming. Yeah, it's totally true. You know, when people find out that I was the goaltender in net for Ovechkin's hot stick celebration where he scored his 50th goal in the 2008-09 season, the common response is it's actually always the same. They always look at me with wide eyes and they go, that was you? Because nobody can believe I was actually a net for it and played in the league. And then, yeah, I'm like, this is my claim to fame.

I had Don Cherry defending my dignity on hockey night in Canada. Yep, that was me. I was a net for the hot stick. this is my claim to fame. I had Don Cherry defending my dignity on hockey night in Canada. Yep, that was me. I was in net for the hot stick. That's my claim to fame. So I only have visions of, I think it was in 1987, if I'm not mistaken, that Ron Hextall just chased Chris Chelios as a member of the Montreal Canadians, like right to the far hash marks. And baseball swung his goal stick against his shin pads.

Any thought of going after Ovi after that episode of hot stick? Oh, in the moment? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Like I've been in the league for maybe, I don't know, two weeks at that point. So here I am thinking here,

I'm an absolute peasant in this league. I can't take a suspension right now on probably the best player in the game. Like I just have to eat this. And what was so tough about it was watching my teammates just kind of stare at him when we get in afterwards and Rick talk, it's our coach and talk is he's fuming, right? Cause nothing happened. And, Oh, really? Oh, I'm playing it. I'm playing it for Kipper right now. Kipper, watch this. Tuck's just ripping everybody. Tuck definitely thought somebody should have gone after Ovi.

I think at least somebody should have said something was the thought process, for sure, and nothing did, and we all just kind of stared at it. But you know what? No one expected that. It was such a strange occurrence, man. Nobody nobody had done a celebration like that ever, ever. And we're all just staring at him kind of at first, like, what's he doing? Who's number two, number two, is just standing and watch a number two on your team at the time in Tampa

there. Right-handed shot. Lucas cry check. I remember that. He's just standing right beside him just watching it happen. Yeah. I was working with sports net i was one of those guys that said that uh it was uh a little over the top i do recall i think a year or two later doing a uh i don't know if it was a charity event or a league uh award show or something where ovi knew that i didn't like it and came over to me and you know actually we had a

very good conversation believe it or not and he was just saying why don't you like the players celebrating and why don't you like them expressing themselves and and that's that's what we need to do more and uh you know I I kind of stated my my case that uh you know that there's another team involved and you know i think that uh i think in many ways that we were both probably right because we do know that it's gone to another level in terms of the creativity the celebrations the the passion and all that and you know i've swung over not completely over the other side but but in the same sequence, I can think that Ovi's also come over my side a little bit too because I watched last night, guys, Ovi celebrate his 800th and I saw a guy that was not interested in any of that BS,

but a guy that's been humbled by it. I like the fact that he tapped his uh his heart on his jersey to the chicago fans and everybody outside watching and ultimately i think this guy did get it to the point where he led a team to a stanley cup and his legacy will go down in history amongst some of the best in that's ever played the game oh yeah he. He'll be the greatest goal scorer ever if he isn't already. And you know, it's funny Kipper, like you mentioned having a conversation with him.

I actually spoke to Ovi about it. I don't know, a week or two later when we played against them, you know, and it was just one of those exchanges down underneath the arena where he basically said, sorry, I don't know if he said,

sorry, but he more or less said, I didn't mean anything by it. I didn't mean to show you guys up. And, and I said, that's fine. You know what? We're good.

No problem here. I think he understood that it was kind of an embarrassing moment for our team. That was really bad at that point. It was just kicking us when we were down. And we're good. And you know what? Now I look back on it pretty fondly because it's one of those moments in NHL history that's pretty iconic. And hey, man, even if I was on the wrong end, man, even if I was on the wrong end of it, even if I was on the wrong end of it,

I was part of something historic and I'll forever be tied to him. So I've owned it. It's cool. And I love watching Ovi play, man, one of my favorite players. It's also not a groaner. He rips that shot. It is a thousand miles an hour. One of the questions I did want to ask you is,

everyone talks about what is it about his release that's so deceptive, yada, yada. Is it not that he just shoots it a billion miles an hour and places it really well? Just before you go, I want to say that I went down, just to kind of add to your point, I went down and did an alumni event about a month and a half ago, two months ago.

And I walked into the practice facility facility and they were on the ice. And I couldn't take my eyes off of Ovi the whole practice. Just shooting it. Shooting it. And, you know, the one thing that really stood out during that practice, Mike, was the sound. Almost as if I'm listening to eight other guys on the blue Jays do batting practice. And then I hear Vladdy,

I hear Vladdy and just the sound off his bat is much different than anyone else's. And I got the exact same feel watching Ovi shoot the puck during this practice. And I'm just wondering as from a goaltender's perspective, do you get the feel the same different feel when a guy like that comes at you? Yeah, absolutely. It's because he's swinging for the fences.

Absolutely. Every time it's like growing up in St. Louis, I'd see Albert Pujols and I'd see Brett Hull. And those were similar types of players for what they did. And like, even I just put a piece up on daily face up today about the top five, one-timers in the league. And I pulled NHL goalies and all but one guy said, Ovi. Now the thing about Ovi, when it comes off his blade to me, it's not like he's so accurate with it. It's just overwhelmingly hard. And it's hard to read because you know how this works with the

big shooters. He can shoot it from anywhere. It doesn't have to be in his wheelhouse. It can be three feet behind him. It could be off his front foot, back foot. So a lot of times the puck comes off and it's almost like waffling on edge. So he can dip and dive and go all over the place. So his one-timer is tough to stop because it's hard to read. And then when he's shooting on the rush like he did to beat me for that hot stick goal, he's got a really big time toe curve

on a stick and it tends to go like toe heel toe really quickly um and when he uses that d as a little bit of a screen it's just tough to pick up and it comes off the blade so quickly almost kind of like a boomerang so you know i had trouble with him early in my career but i actually faced him i think five or six times total and later in my, I did better because I knew I had to get my feet set. If I got my feet set, I could at least get a good read on the shot. I wasn't perfect against him, but I was at least better once I had that little bit of detail. Yeah, it's a really good point about that toe curve, because sometimes it does seem to just come off and whip and change direction on the way.

It doesn't seem to matter where it is in his stance, he hits it. So one goaltender actually two goaltenders are stopping a lot of pucks in toronto right now uh ilia samsonov has taken over the nhl lead and save percentage and goals against average you know one of the things sheldon keith mentioned today was sort of his off ice he's taking care of himself and really listening to the things you're trying to work with him on what are you seeing out of samsonov so far this season well it's a really good point because I think that there is a little more than an inclination, maybe a belief that Samsonov just didn't really take things serious enough in Washington

in a couple of different ways. And so obviously that's one thing. You get kicked in the teeth when you're a first-round pick and the team that picks you doesn't want you anymore. They just let you go. So I think that woke him up a bit, and I think that there needs to be a lot of credit to goalie coach Curtis Sanford in Toronto here, because he's got two goalies in Murray and Samsonov that are pretty different in how they play in my eyes. Samsonov still, to me, has an element of free form to his game.

He's not that crisp, but I think he's cleaned up two things this year. First, his depth is really consistent. There were times with Washington, he'd be deep in his crease, then he'd be way out. It's like he didn't really have a game plan. Now I think he's pretty set in that, and I also find that he's sliding less than he ever was before. When he was in Washington, he'd slide from side to side and recover, and his game was just really busy.

Now there's still a little bit of that to him. He's never going to get rid of it completely, but I do find that he's staying on his edges a little bit more. And then in turn, it's just making that first save easier and easier for him to control it because his eyes aren't moving. His upper body's not moving and he's square to the shot initially. Is this sustainable? I mean, these type of numbers, does it,

as, as expectations rise? I mean, is there going to be a letdown here uh the brutal honesty is no a 939 is not sustainable i mean we're he's we're only a third of the way into the season so he's going to come back down to earth with that i mean if he if samson off finishes with a 925 I would consider that a massive year for him. But there's going to be regression if that's what the number turns out to be. And some of the things that I said before, I still think he's loose in his game. He's not very crisp. He can still end up on his back and his stomach occasionally.

And that's a progression. He's going to have to keep working on that with Curtis Sanford to really find that structure. So is it sustainable from the numbers he's posting now? No. And I also think that, frankly from the numbers he's posting now? No. And I also think that, just frankly, the Leafs have played really well lately, so it's given him a ton of confidence. What's going to happen when he finally hits a tough patch? Because to me, Samsonov really hasn't had one this year.

At some point he will, but with the way he's playing, like I say, with his depth and the fact that he's not sliding as much, I do think he's capable of 920, 925 type of goaltending, and that's everything that the Maple Leafs need. Do you think he can be better than McKenna? Sorry, not McKenna, than Murray? Yes, he can definitely be better than McKenna. He is much better than McKenna.

Now that we've got that out of the way, if Murray and Samsonov are both playing well come playoffs this year, can Samsonov make a case that he'd be the better guy to start? I'd start whoever's playing best going into playoffs. And I think that that's really healthy in this relationship. The problem is that you got to hope that both are healthy here, guys. That's the elephant in the room. We don't need to belabor it because we know it's all what we're hoping doesn't happen.

You want them both healthy. But when you look at Murray and I've watched him closely, like I didn't like his game against Calgary, but you throw that one out the window. Look what he did against Dallas. I mean, just one of the greatest goalie performances I've seen in the last probably two years. I think he's playing at a level of urgency with Murray that I haven't seen in a couple of years. He's, you talk about crisp, like his footworks, real crisp. Okay. He's very rarely swimming unless he absolutely has to. He's, you talk about crisp, like his footworks, real crisp. Okay. He's very rarely swimming unless he absolutely has to. He's not knocking the nut off anymore. So he's adjusted

that. And so the arenas around the league, but I still question his hands, you know, that Calgary game, it looked like Cadre and a couple others were able to expose them up high. That's something he'll have to keep working on. But I think realistically, this is an open battle between Murray and Samson off. And if you have two bullets in the chamber when you get to playoffs, who's to say they both don't end up playing a little bit. Murray's won a Stanley Cup like that previously when he had Marc-Andre Fleury as his goalie partner in Pittsburgh. I could see it playing out like that again.

Until one of them catches on fire, right? I mean, but historically, we don't see it happen when it comes to winning Stanley cups. We see one dominant guy and very seldom. Do we not know who that, that guy is generally before the playoffs start? Yeah, it's true, but it's also a little bit of a different landscape. If you look at the number of tandems around the league, I mean, I put out a piece of daily face-off on the top tandems, and it was so hard for me to rank because most of the teams in the league now, say for maybe five

or six, they're rolling with a tandem that's playing two games to one guy, one game to another, you know, even closer to split half and half. Now, you know, come playoff time, we've seen how that works before. You are right, Kipper, like it typically does go to the one goalie that's caught fire. But a lot of that comes down to the team. You know, if the Leafs are playing well in front of one goaltender, unless they really stink up the joint and playoffs, they're probably going to ride them out. You have to think Murray's got a bit of an edge there though, with two Stanley cups in his pocket. I know he's been rebuilding. I know the last couple of years haven't been great, but

he still knows what that moment is like and there's value to that. That's why you lean on him as the guy. I think unless Samsonov is playing heads and shoulder above Murray, I think you're right, Kipper. It's Murray's net probably for playoffs to lose.

Do you think stats today do a good job? I know there's some goals saved above expected and some new ways to look at goaltending. Do you think we do a good enough job accounting for environment? As in, are the Leafs providing both these guys with the insulation to look good? Is John Gibson being unfairly put upon playing in Anaheim? Are we capturing situation enough on these goaltenders?

I think there's enough information out there. If you have kind of a discerning eye, you know, as far as John Gibson, I, listen, I haven't liked this game for four years. I think you're seeing the goalies that haven't updated to modern style and post integrations and everything else like that. They're at the bottom of the league. And we're talking about quick and we're talking about Gibson and we're talking about Peterson,

some and Bobrovsky, even some pretty big name goalies that I think have been, they've been passed by. But in terms of the Leafs, this club is providing them insulation. No question about it. And I think you have to look at how the team is like expected goals for the team,

shot attempts, all that stuff. It all matters. It all factors in. I still think there's value in traditional numbers. I do like goal saved above expected. The problem is that it's over the course of the season. So you really need to look in a little microcosm, how somebody playing, you need to look at the last five or six games to really get a feel for that. And of course, when you look at Toronto right now, Hey man, that's pretty good. Like I said, I didn't like the Calgary game for Murray, but aside from that, he's been rock solid, the same

as Samsonov. Okay, based on roughly 30 games, we are starting the playoffs tomorrow, and I am giving you one tandem to pick anyone you want to start to try to win a Stanley cup.

Who do you pick? Samsonov and Murray all Mark and Swayman. He just wrote on this. He knows them all. Okay. Where are you going? I'm giving you, I'm giving you a chance to pick anyone you want to try to go win a Stanley

cup starting tomorrow. Who are you taking? Well, we got to assume that the Islanders are in the playoffs, even though it's getting tight out there in the Metro, I would go Ilya Sorokin and Semyon Varlamov. Wow. That combination.

I mean, Sorokin has been outstanding and I think Varlamov has been very good. Either of them can win. If you're looking at a tandem thinking you may have to play both. But I think even in Tampa, Brian Elliott, guys, he's 6-1 this year. I know it's not playoffs, and I know he's also faced a little bit different workload, but you just look at how Tampa's playing and you think, man, Elliott and Vasilevsky, they might be able to get it done as well.

So I haven't really liked Swayman's year so far to date. I think he's trending upward. Omar has been fantastic. But if I got a role in the playoffs with a tandem, I want the one guy who I think is probably the Vezina winner. If it's Sorokin, it might be Hellebuck right now. They're going to be battling it out for a while, but it's really because of the strength of Varlamov. I'd feel completely comfortable going with the Islanders tandem into playoffs. Excellent. Excellent stuff as always, man.

Appreciate you coming on the show. Appreciate you being the goalie in that off of all these hot sticks. What a thrilling development that was. Hey, you know what? That's just my crack team. That's what I claim to frame. I want you to know that's my crack team of led by Sammy McKee that did

mounds of research to find that out about nine minutes ago. Perfect. Well, I appreciate it. Better late than never. Okay. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Mike McKenna from Daily Faceoff Hockey Analyst. Sammy, I expect you to know that stuff. He knew. He had done great research to figure out. He was watching the video. Who was the goalie net for Ovi's 50th? We got to get him on the show. There's been a few times I've been disgusted at a hockey event

than when he did that celebration. Oh, you guys are ridiculous. No, no, no. That was ridiculous. I didn't like it at the time either. That was ridiculous. I wouldn't like it today. It was too gimmicky for me.

What's wrong with going, yeah, double fist pump? What's wrong with that? Why are you going to put your stick on the ice? Show a touch of class. Awful, Sally. He's the most Canadian guy I've ever heard. Good old boys. The one that I've liked is in overtime when guys throw their stick into the crowd.

Love that. That's a great Sally. Love that one. Yeah, until someone loses an eye. You know what I actually thought of's a major lawsuit you know matthews for years has done the look of the crowd and give the like let's go i was gonna say the other day and i was like mitch yeah mitch started doing it i think last year but mitch is one of the you scored 35 times last year he's uh you know you don't like bunting doing it it's a bit much you got eight let's what was that seven one the seventh goal that's right let's the one that's getting me

with celebrations i mean we'll talk a little mcdavid in the news and notes or whatever but this guy i was saying to borny before the show scores a goal every night that would be the best goal of 85 of the guys in the league's career every night that would be the best goal of 85% of the guys in the league's career every night. And he scored one last night where he just carved up the Preds. End to end, goals through, and then he just fist bumps these guys off the ice, no look at his face.

It's just an easy game. There's like tiers of scoring, and it's like McDavid tier, Dreisaitl tier, and then the rest of the league starts. Matthews really celebrates his goals these days. You know what I add? The drop down to one knee. Well, but that's Ovi, and I've actually always hated Ovi's celebration just because I think it's a bad sell-ee.

He does the one-knee ice punch thing. Yeah, it's a bad look. I don't like that sell-ee just because I don't like it. It doesn't look... No, I'm not, like, offended by it. I just think it's a stupid sell-ee. I don't like it. I think that looks like a lot of... Why are you so pissy? Yeah. Right? Yeah, like, I'm not offended by it. I just think it's a stupid... I don't like it. I think that looks like a lot of...

Why are you so pissy? Yeah. Right? Yeah, like it's not... I've seen Pat Kane kind of do a little bit of something. Kane does the mouth guard out this too. I think that's where Matthew's got it from, actually. Kane goes down to one knee every once in a while.

Does he not? He does, for sure. I'm trying to think who the best guy in the league is at doing it. Just a best selly guy? I don't know know we're open to suggestions if you got it i remember tim kerr scoring 60 goals for the philadelphia flash i don't think he raised his arms five times really well there's a big part of it that's like you act like you've been there before you know i actually got called into my athletic director's

office in university because i scored a big goal and i turned around and did the referee point at the net oh boy yeah i don't know i like the ref point i did the captain morgan pose once right now i'm so disgusted at that point great what's your favorite celebration of all time uh timo solani throw a shoot in the gloves yeah that one is wow i don't know over time you know what actually yeah that's where he's zamboni the center ice yeah that's pretty sweet i i don't who was it oh um when yakupov maria yakupov who was just like the craziest celebrator and they were playing like a mid-december game and he tied it with like a second left and he skated the length of the ice and like yes yeah he was just like out of his mind but yeah the hot stick would not be on my list of favorites

i'm going back but tiger williams wrote his stick down center ice and maple leaf gardens i love tiger but only tiger can do that first came back i think as a vancouver canuck i dare you to tell him not to yeah right well that's it it's like yeah you want to go ahead and get something to say about it would still kick 90 of any nhl players ass yeah i want today i want nothing to do with telling tiger williams he can't do something he go ahead and do whatever he wants i also i mean not to get too there's a couple more that I really, really love. I'm not a big fan of Kuznetsov at all.

Oh, you love the bird? When he does the... Big fan, yeah. That's a good one. I don't really get the bird thing. Well, it's Russian eagle. Yeah, it's not. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah.

Okay. And Luchich, when he would score, and then he would take both hands on his stick and put it above his head. This is the most over celebration of all time uh oh my god and i'm too old for it's like a 10 minutes another really good one sorry i mean the mud here i got there's two more i got the one of the most iconic and a guy that actually just had two assists as a 50-year-old in the Czech League. Oh, Jager Salute. Jager Salute is glove off, bang.

My buddy Brian Propp had a guffaw, which I think he got somehow from a Howie Mandel show. A guffaw. I don't even know what the guffaw is. show. A guffaw. I don't even know what the guffaw is. What's a guffaw? A guffaw. He took his hand out of his glove and he kind of scooted it up towards the air.

Okay. It was really strange, but I think I found out it had something to do with Howie Mandel. That's strange. I've been hanging on to one because I'm embarrassed about this. And in fact, it's the only time

I think my dad actually called and was like, what are you doing? But around the time Terrell Owens pulled the Sharpie out and signed the football, I didn't do that. Oh, Barney. Oh. But Anchorage, Alaska and Fairbanks were big rivals. Like those are huge games every year.

They give out a trophy. I scored an OT winner in that game and pretended to pull out the Sharpie and sign the stick. Oh. And i got punched in the head for that the next game but i am really surprised you've made it this far i stopped celebrating like an idiot as i grew up and jamie ben i don't know when it was can't remember the last however long snapped his stick over his knee like it was it was broken a little bit he like scored though jackson how about when bobby Bobby Ryan scored using someone else's stick? Yes.

And then celebrated. That was unbelievable too. He like showed it. I think it's the art of a celebration. It's incredibly, to me, it's important to the goal. Like if it's an all-time goal or like it's something the moment, it's what you remember for. You think of Patrick Kane.

I know. You score the overtime winner that nobody knew went in yeah and he's jumping up and down you remember that just as much as you remember the goal like it's it's an important thing i'm going to break i know i know the windmill we'll be back right after these words take us away this is real kipper and bornorden on Sportsnet 590 The Van. JV, I got to think that the NHL Christmas freeze, which is coming, I think, if I'm not mistaken, Monday. Oh, yeah. At midnight.

Couldn't come at a better time for the Vancouver Canucks just to calm things down out west uh because uh this whole beau horvat story is taking on a life of its own i think uh and that's uh it's a good reason to kind of get into it with our next guest mr Mr. Patterson, how are you? Oh, is he? Okay. All good, Mr. Patterson? I am, yeah.

Is that you catching your breath with all the turmoil going on with the Vancouver Canucks? It was actually me turning off my dryer so that I could do this unfettered because I didn't want the home appliances to be rattling in the background. Is there really news in the last 24, 48, 72 hours here or is it just kind of

some things surfacing that we already knew pre-existing even towards the summer when they chose to sign JT over Bo? Yeah, I'm not sure that there's anything that is earth-shatteringly new other than this report that the Horvath camp has rejected the team's latest offer, and I suppose that part is new because during the Hall of Fame weekend, there was a fair bit of noise around the fact that, well,

all these Canucks personnel, management, and ownership were in Toronto, and Pat Morris is based in Toronto, and the two sides didn't get together. And that seemed to have some people concerned that, you know, we had reached this critical mass where they weren't even talking to each other. So if you're rejecting deals, at least there's some communication going on. But it's just the bizarre nature of the way this thing has sort of taken on life now in the last really 10 days. And 10 days ago it was Brock Besser in the spotlight.

Now more recently this week it's Horvat again. But to have a player release a statement, a prepared statement through the team while he's on the ice at practice yesterday. I've covered this team for 23 years. I've never seen that one before, so that was new. And then, of course, he comes off the ice after practice and gets asked questions about the contract situation.

And so he was trying to get ahead of it. I understand what he was trying to do with the statement, but in a market like this one, they had Monday off, so this was the first time that anybody had access to Bo. And, of course, those questions were going to be asked, but, of course, he handled it like the pro that he is. I mean, he has been nothing but gracious with his time during his playing days here as the captain.

He's comfortable in front of the microphone. So I didn't understand the need for the prepared statement because he was going to get asked all those questions. And he can certainly handle himself. He didn't dump any more gas on the fire. He just kind of explained his side of things and away you go. So that part, at the very least, was curious. And to his credit, it hasn't been a distraction. Now, he hasn't been asked about it an awful lot.

He was asked about it before training camp and sort of said all the right things then. And then he goes out and he scores 20 goals, and he's one of the league leaders in that department. So it hasn't been a distraction. But, you know, now that it's ramped up a little bit, I am curious to see if at any point this does, because now it's pretty real. Now I think it's pretty clear that if the Canucks have made their best in the final

or something close to it and it's been rejected, then it's kind of natural to suggest that he isn't going to finish the season here as a member of the Vancouver Canucks. And so in that sense, maybe it does change the dynamic a little bit. Can he shelve that and just continue to do what he's done on the ice through the first 28 games? We're joined by Jeff Patterson, who's covered the Vancouver Canucks for more than

two decades, and this one's a beauty as we watch what happens to Bo Horvat with the Vancouver Canucks. Jeff, is there a chance that this release, this something-out-of-nothing story is kind of brought together by Bo, his agent, that this release, this something out of nothing story

is kind of brought together by Bo, his agent, the Vancouver Canucks, just to try to drum up the best case scenario here to move off of this. Can there be a deal done after Christmas or at the deadline? Like, where is this heading here? Are they all in agreement that this is the best way to go and this is the best way to kind of draw up interest?

Well, it's hard to fully know what Patrick LV and the general manager is thinking. We rarely hear from him. He plays things remarkably close to the basket. Jim Rutherford certainly is more outspoken among the two upper management guys. You know, Bo Horvat, again, said all the right things. Drafted by the Canucks, sort of groomed under the sardines, became the captain, has started and raised a family here.

I do think that Bo Horvat, in some world, would like to see it through and see how far he can push it with the Vancouver Canucks because, let's be honest, they haven't had a whole lot of success during his time here, got to the playoffs as a rookie, and then got to the playoffs again in the bubble a couple of years ago. But it's been since 2015 since the Vancouver Canucks have actually hosted a playoff game here at Rogers Arena in Vancouver. So a long time coming, and they're below the playoff bar

as we sit here now, big one in Calgary tonight. But the chances of them making the playoffs this year feel slim. I wouldn't rule it out because there's enough runway left still. So I think Bill Horvat envisions a world in which he does lead this team to playoff success and those types of things. But through no fault of his own and through fiscal mismanagement of now two management groups, eventually the dam's going to burst.

And it looks like we're reaching that point, and he's kind of going to be the guy that ends up being squeezed in all of this. So they made their bet. They committed to JT Miller. And, you know, at the end of the offseason, just before training camp. It has not been a great start to the season for JT. He picks up points. If you just look at the box scores, you'd say, hey, a point-of-game guy,

that's all right, coming off a 99-point season, but it's just nightly errors. You probably saw the highlight the other night against Minnesota with the cross-ice pass that got picked off for a shorthanded goal, and we see way too much of that from J.T. Miller. And I do wonder if there is some buyer's remorse in the offices

at Rogers Arena. Did they hitch their wagon to the wrong guy? But there's not enough money to go around in a flat-cap world or a cap that's going up by a million bucks. And so, you know, the only way I could see them carving out space to find a way to meet Horvath's demand, they'd have to get out from under Besser or Garland or Tyler Myers. And Besser and Garland are both stuck on four goals and have had massively disappointing starts to the season.

And Tyler Myers is essentially a depth defenseman making $6 million this year and next. So, you know, none of those contracts is going to be easy to move. They don't have much in the system and the pipeline. They already added a second-round sweetener to move off Jason Dickinson's contract earlier this year. And so, you know, this is a new management group. They inherited the mess. They did.

But they've been on the job a year now, and instead of carving out any cap flexibility, they committed to Miller. They elected to go three years with Brock Besser. You know, they went out and they signed Ilya Mikheyev in the offseason and didn't do anything to address the back end of it. So they spent all this money up front, and yet everybody in this market knew that

the defense score wasn't good enough, was the glaring weakness, and sure enough, if you watch the Canucks at all this season, I think they've given up five or more goals in 12 of their 28 games. So know in so many other games look and feel the same they can't defend they give up way too much and as a result they lose more than they win so uh there's a myriad of problems here and it's going to be really interesting to see what direction this new management group decides to go but right now it's kind of been uh paralysis by analysis and they

really haven't done anything that's kind of tipped their hand into you know what that next big move or that first big move is going to be if they decide that they want to change the direction of this hockey club and ultimately is it going to be moving Bo Horvath or is there going to be a trade before that that you know it tries to create a little wriggle room so maybe they can double back and see if they can't get a deal done to keep the captain here long term so you mentioned the fiscal mismanagement of two groups and now we're on to the second one i can't help but wonder like who's under fire in vancouver right now most of all is it individual players is it the new management group is it you know is it ownership who is feeling the heat of a, I guess,

just from the outside, it looks like they're kind of stuck in this mushy middle where they're pretty good and they got some good players, but they can't really do anything to get better. And it's tough to see a roadmap out of this. The new management doesn't seem to have helped them with that. Sorry for trying to answer my own question. I will now hand that over to you. Yeah. And I will need 15 minutes to answer this one uh no i look i think there's a huge portion of the fan base that is angry at ownership for just refusing over a decade now to strip it down and try to build it up properly and and ultimately you know even though people have tried to get you know sell the team moving on as a hashtag, and trending on Twitter.

You don't get to make that call. The owner is the owner, and there are a lot of people that have felt his fingerprints have been all over management, certainly behind a lot of the moves of the Jim Benning era. I think the new management group, it's been just over a year since Jim Rutherford took over. Patrick Levine was brought on board in January, so he's coming up on his first anniversary. He had a little bit of a honeymoon period there.

But I think there is some frustration with the inactivity because talk is cheap. And ultimately, Jim Rutherford was brought in to do a job. He was brought in as a senior, senior manager with his reputation and the Stanley Cups to prove it. And one of the things everybody thought with Jim Rutherford was, you know, he's proactive in all the trades that he made when he took over in Pittsburgh. And yet you look at the trade activity and I get it's tough in this climate at the National Hockey League, but, you know, they've just nibbled around the fringes, traded out Travis Hamannick, brought in Travis Dermott last year, and then

Ethan Barron and Riley Stillman. Like that's the extent of their trade activity. And they're no better for those minor moves and that's why some major surgery is going to be required and and so i think a lot of the frustrations with ownership that you know it's just been this constant chase of getting in as the second wild card and take your chances that you know under jim benning it sort of was getting to the playoffs and hope that something can happen and they saw that that in the bubble, that was kind of the case. And so I think they thought that that gave them hope. But coming out of the bubble, they were one of the sexy teams.

Like all those young players stepped up, performed well. Horvat was terrific. I think he had 10 goals in that playoff run. But Demko, you know, was the first playoff test for Pedersen and Hughes. And they were both point-of-game guys. And so there was really reason to believe. And I go back to that free agency period coming out of the bubble. You know, we were in COVID.

The Canucks as an organization were sort of cutting corners financially wherever they could, and that's when they let Mark Sturm and Tanev and Toffoli and Troy Stetcher all just walk away as unrestricted free agents. And, you know, they had to Foley. If they had found a way to resign to Foley, they probably don't have to chase Connor Garland and make that trade and bring on OEL and his contract. And, you know, and so it's just chasing your tail

and around and around they've gone. And as a result, they're right back in this position of, you know, best case scenario is probably sneaking in as the wild card number two or maybe you reach the Lockheed Heights and be in the number one wild card number two or maybe maybe you reach lucky heights have been the number one wild card whatever the case yeah you know you're taking on the top seat in the conference and sneaking in sneaking into the playoffs means that you will have kept bo horvat and then you watch him walk out the door for nothing they can can't do that. No, you're right. I agree with you 100%. And so

that's where I think, like in my world now, if they have made their best and final, and only they know, but if they've even been close and it's been, you know, reviewed by the Horvath camp, I think you really have to start looking at trading him sooner rather than later because

the last thing they can afford is for Horvat, who's been remarkably durable during his career. But imagine if he gets hurt here closer to the trade deadline. Like, you know, then you're left pulled in the bag in that regard. And so you can't bank on that. You can't plan around injuries. But it is a realistic possibility. And so I do wonder if, you know, they think they've made the best offer to him.

They have made their best offer to them. I would start looking at, you know, making the best possible trade in the here and now and really starting to lay out some sort of longer-term vision than rolling the dice, hoping they come up your way and you sneak into the playoffs for, what, two home playoff dates? And, like, I just think the Tackleini familyini family, they've got more money than just about anybody. Really, two home dates, is that lucrative to them? Or the possibility of a third home playoff game? I'm of the opinion, set a course for this franchise.

If it means stepping back, it's been a dark decade here. But put together a plan that will allow you to have a run of four or five years where the hope would be that you were a playoff team every year, and in one of those years you get it right, you get on a big long run, and you actually put together a team that can contend. So the owner hasn't shown that kind of vision yet. It just really is sort of fly by the seat of his pants year by year, take it one step at a time.

But I'm with you that that cannot be an option for this group. And, you know, Calgary was in a different boat last year. Like, they watched Calgary with Johnny Hockey, but they had legitimate Stanley Cup aspirations that fell short. But the aspirations were there. This team does not have those. And so holding on to Horvat would make zero sense, in my opinion. I think Vancouver Canucks are going to think that they can get a boatload

for Bo Horvat, and they are going to be really disappointed. Yeah, it's tough to know. I mean, we spend a lot of time here on this market wondering what's his value on the trade market, and then beyond that, what would his value be on the open market? Bo is... He's a really unique player. I think there are two guys in the league right now

that have 18 goals but less than 10 assists, and he's the other one. Bo is an incredible... He's developed into a goal-scoring ace and an absolute face-off stud. He's a captain, so he's got leadership, but there are awards to his game.

Vancouver doesn't want to pay him as a top goal-scoring kind of guy. Here's the problem in a nutshell. He's not going to run at 21% with a shooting clip. There is going to be a drop in his goals, but he's not going to score one of every five shots. It's just

the reality of the situation. And I think one thing that people around the league don't recognize, and I'm not here to, to, you know, throw darts at Bo Horvath. He's an incredible guy. I've always enjoyed my dealings with him,

but he's got nine assists. I think five of them at even strength, 28 games. And he's not a setup guy. He doesn't have playmaking and a vision on the ice. And so this is, this is Vancouver's. This is why,, this is why,

and this is the biggest dilemma here I've seen actually is kind of an interesting case study that Vancouver wants to pay him like a 50-point guy, like the guy that you just mentioned, Kent set up. So that ballpark could be anywhere between five and $6 million. But what's going to happen now between five and six million dollars but what's going to happen now between now and the trade deadline they're going to want to trade him as if he's an 80 point guy and a 40 goal score so tell me which one it is because you can't suck

and blow at the same time yeah and again i have nothing but the highest regard for bull horvath but realistically i mean he's had one his career high is 61 points. That was last year. And again, sort of the knock on him is he doesn't make the guys around him a whole lot better in terms of setup and playmaking, those types of things. You know, they throw him out there in the matchup role, and he holds his own,

but he's certainly not a defensive ace. He's had one selkie vote in his career, and that came from a member of the Vancouver chapter of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, so some hole-cooking there. You know, he's a very good player, but I'm not sure that I can go a whole lot further there if I'm the one that's trying to sign the contract. I can understand from the Canucks' perspective. There's been talk that they looked at Ryan Nugent Hopkins as a comparable and and

somehow the Oilers got the Nugent to agree to you know eight years at 5.125 which is incredible because he's had better seasons statistically than Bo Warbat has at this point in his career they're around the same age they both had the potential to be legacy players so I can understand the Canucks coming with that but the market obviously is he's telling you something different he's not going to sign for five and a quarter uh but to me I think anything higher than about six and a half you're going to have trouble extracting value from Bo Horvath who does a lot of good things but there are areas of his game that at the age of 27 turning 28 in April you know he is what he is and it's not likely that all of a sudden he's going to become this incredible playmaker.

And so that is the concern, and I think any team around the league should be wary. Byron, beware. You're getting a good player, but if you think you're getting this complete sort of low-end 1C or a really good second-line center, again, there are some things that hold him back in my estimation from being able to command something that would start with an eight. Like I just, to me, eight would be a no-go zone. But yet the market, you know, is going to dictate that he's probably going to get something in the high seven.

Jeff, just last one real quick before we let you go. How's our boy Bruce Boudreaux hanging in there? Is he okay? If they didn't fire him a month ago, man, he's going to be there for maybe life. Yeah, it was pretty funny. Yesterday after practice, somebody asked him and said, Bruce, you've been on the job for just over a year. You've seen an awful lot.

And he just said, yep. And, you know, Bruce, you don't get the one-word answers out of Bruce very often, but I think that kind of said everything without saying a whole lot. His demeanor has changed. I mean, look, none of us would want our boss just beaking constantly, going public and saying some of the things that Jim Rutherford has said. And yet, at the same time, if you watch that 7-6 win over Montreal when they were down 4-0 and came all the way back to win in overtime,

it was everything that Jim Rutherford had said. Like, there is no structure. They can't defend. And Bruce seems okay with just kind of letting his horses run wild and hoping that they can outscore their problems and their power play. It's elite and among the league's best, and it bails them out on a lot of nights. So Bruce loves offense, but ultimately they do have to tighten things up defensively. So it's been tough.

I mean, there has been a change in his demeanor. Hasn't been as happy-go-lucky as he was last year when, you know, he was excited to get back in the league and have a job and all those types of things. He's in a tough spot because I think he recognizes that he won't be the co-chair next year. It's just a question of will he get to ride this out for the remainder of the season? They probably don't want to pay. They're paying travis green the final year of his deal so uh you know from an ownership standpoint they probably don't want to be paying three head coaches so that might give bruce an opportunity to stick it out to the end of the year but certainly tough

circumstances and uh it is never dull that much is i think certainly for those of us but i think i think the league is on to the Canucks now to know that there's just no shortage of storylines out here on the West Coast. Jeff, really appreciate your time. Thanks for sharing. All right, guys. Thank you. Thanks so much, man.

Appreciate it. Jeff Patterson, co-host at Rinkwide Podcast in Vancouver. Yeah. Good stuff. That's a problem now for Vancouver is they're... You don't think they're going to get a pile for Bo Horvat? No. Guy's going to score 40 times this year and no one wants to pay for that?

Tell me what a boat load is. Like a first and a prospect and a fourth. I don't know. That's a boat. Load-ish. That's a boat load. I don't know that's a boat load that's about i don't know what do you think is a reasonable first and uh yeah a mid prospect yeah but don't you think that there'll be teams that may be out of the playoff picture that could trade for him too why would you do that if you're maybe going to re-sign him kevin if you think he's good and do it in the summer but then i guess but you have first right refusal oh stop it have a better chance to sell a guy on your sister the contract's gonna hold its own you don't need to give up a first rounder for first rights of refusal yeah sammy i don't know the the question i have is you know i think

about what felina went for the deadline first no? No, you're right. You're right. No, but Kipper, think of what guys go for at the deadline. What the Leafs gave up for Foligno. What happens? Horvath's another tier above that. Obviously. No? Not obviously.

No, no. This is rental. There's a market to rent. And who's got more pressure now? me to overpay on a rental or you to get rid of them for nothing or watch you get feathers jeff's right if i picked up what he was implying uh they should trade him now like before he gets hurt well he has the most value like before the game against the flames they should trade him at 442. Which is a TNT game.

And here's an issue in itself. Look at your standings and you tell me who needs to buy Bo Horvat now. I guess the Leafs aren't in any hurry, are they? No. Capitals? They use bohorvat maybe maybe colorado colorado colorado is kind of the one that keeps coming up but yeah there's not many teams you're right so if you can't go get what you want to get boston everyone all

boston's in no rush and here's the other thing that i don't think we mentioned that, you know, Vancouver doesn't want to eat money. So Boston cannot take Beau Horvat, even though that they're going to need somebody. Vancouver's not going to eat money for half a season. No, they're not. They don't want any money. As of now, they may have to, but they don't want to take any money on. Any contender is going to be like so who tell yeah who who can take him on without needing to get money off a payroll nobody well not many teams

not many but and you're going to wait for him in the summer if you're there is that too that that that return could be greater by retaining money i could help vancouver out too but they would have to admit that they're not trying to make the playoffs then which they just refuse to do even talking to jeff and you know he's saying i'm not going to say they're out of it yet a lot of runway left their winning percentage is 482 it's a bad team what are you what kind of fight are you trying to win here you want to well i think there's a pretty common theme here throughout every single management group that's been in there in the last decade they're not all thinking we have to get the final playoff spot here they're not all thinking the same thing

right like there's somebody telling them yeah like you don't think one of these teams you don't think alvin would want to blow it up and rebuild you don't think the any new management group would love that buys you four free years if you say we're starting over benning like everybody crapped all over him but he probably wanted to blow it up. He probably wanted to. Why do you think he traded for Garland and an OLE? We're having the Aqualutini talk, are we? You've been trying forever to get rid of Connor Garland.

You cannot give him away right now in that contract. Didn't they re-sign him like the day after they got him? Yeah. Or quickly after? You know which one really like stings hard right now is it tyler myers no is it arizona oel yeah take a look at what what's left on that deal the guys they traded to arizona would be gone by now it was like jay beagle like would they be on there's jay beagle and antoine roussel and all these guys that would

be oh louis erickson wasn't it but those guys would just be off the cap and they would just have that cap space wow has oh my god one two four more years at seven two no more kipper eight two oh am i reading it wrong and he hasn't oh i'm sorry i was looking at tyler myers is he making seven oh my gosh six no he's six he's six seven two oh i'm yeah i was right seven two did i say seven one who are you talking about here oh yeah i'm looking at eckman larson i'm looking at all of recman larson who signed a eight year 66 million dollar contract yes on july i'm just saying he's got 7.26 left till 26 27 it's 8.2 8.25 on cap on the aav yeah okay yeah so there's a there's a bonus involved somewhere yeah but the aav is 8.25 for one. And then you got another. I'm seeing what Kipper's seeing.

I got another year. I'm seeing 7.26 as well. I got another year for Tyler Myers at 6 million. Like that's. If you click on his contract, it does say his cap hit is 8.25. It is 8.25. It is. All right.

Yeah. But that one was, he was supposed to come in and be a difference maker. Everybody was, everybody said if this guy was not in Arizona, he would run for a Norris. Right. Do you remember that conversation? I do. Yeah. Arizona retained 990,000.

Oh, there's some retention for Arizona. So the Canucks hit a 7.2, whatever. Not even a million they could get. That's interesting. So yeah, that is certainly hurting their chances and their flexibility. And also he has a NMC, NMC, NMC, no move, no move, no move all these years. So Bergeron and Krejci will retire after this season. So Bo Horvat signing there would make sense.

Yeah, that's actually a super easy fit, isn't it? Hold on. Is that true? Bergeron's going to retire after this? Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. What did you just say? So your summer is going to be much better now? Yeah.

If they do. If he wins a Selkie trophy and you think he's going to retire? The Leafs win a couple of playoff rounds. I can't see them coming back for another year. He retires? This is it. It will be the greatest summer of my life. They got to win the cup this year.

That's why they came back for another shot at winning the cup. He would be one of the all-time, like, in terms of retiring while you're still good and while you're still physically able to play bergeron winning a selkie playing like this for the bruins and packing it in would be an all-timer for me he doesn't seem like the guy that wants to just keep hanging on year by year i respect that i love it too kipper he's not holding on he's unbelievable he's one of the best players in the league i'm the best team in the league i know but he's so good and he's so smart it's almost like i'm bored now i want to go do something else that's how cool he is respectfully he's uh yeah sickens me 22 points in 28 games slowing down a

little he's already got 10 snipes though oh yeah slowing right down he's gonna get 30 again this year slowing right detroit lots of talk about bo horvat maybe being a fit in detroit detroit boston colorado doesn't have room after this year colorado would be they're a rental renting that guy and yeah and you you don't even want to trade a first rounder unless you know it's going to be kind of 18 to 30. Yeah. You're not, you know. Not a high.

Not trading a top 10, 12 first round. You don't envision if you're a team and you have that type of pick. Well, you would never give up a lottery pick. It feels like Bo Horvat should be a better defensive player. Hearing someone like Jeff talk about how he's not winning shutdowns. I like him a lot. I'm a Bo Horvat fan for sure. Better than Pontus Holmberg if the Leafs swung a deal,

gave up some picks and prospects? I like Pontus if uh you can get him for one for the show today i like him at one four next year from kyle dubas by the way patrice bergeron has been a captain on the bruins since 2006 is the second year in the league and they gave him a letter third yeah did you lose respect when he, you know? No, to whatever you're going to say next. Watched Vancouver share a pretend Stanley Cup. Forgot about that, yeah. Yeah, I didn't hear that from him.

No, no, we didn't hear that from him. I'm sure that's gone now, that story, right? Yeah, so should we talk about the Bruins never losing It's remarkable to me That the Leafs have not lost a game in regulation Since Sam's dead Sam just died Oh no

I've been eating popcorn back here But I just got a kernel One of my earlier years uh i was doing junior a games with kevin quinn and i'd always eat food during this mark sanchez in the hot dog popcorn and i finally get kevin quinn to take some popcorn and he pulls a sammy right now during his play-by-play oh man i'm like i'm slapping his back i'm i'm lifting him upside down i'm like i'm not doing play-by-play so you better get that kernel out of your throat but they haven't lost since remember it's day and they are still behind

bruins and not just behind like you know three plus boston has two games at hand and like they're potentially seven behind yeah three points up um it's just i can't believe they're this good i know it is a little surprise gonna hit a skid first boston or toronto toronto show here might want to answer this one wisely the bruins the bruins are due to due to back it up a little bit. You know, I'd love to say that if you look at their underlying numbers, they're not X, Y, Z or whatever, but like they're just so good. You know, it is interesting to me that Anaheim had those two defensemen, Josh Manson and Hampus Lindholm.

And, you know, there was some jockeying to get them. But the two guys have been huge impacts on their respective teams like the Avs don't win a cup without Josh Manson last year and Hampus Lindholm's been unbelievable with the Bruins are you sure that they don't win a cup without Josh Manson element for them he was that physical guy that made them tough to play back there he hit people I know he played 14 minutes a night or something. I wouldn't definitively say no, but I get it. I liked him.

He was something they needed, something the Leafs certainly could have used were he interested in playing Canada. But yes, Bruins, very good. On our list of things to discuss. Oh, go ahead. I was just going to say, now if you look at the Boston Bruins,

every time I see a highlight, I'm seeing something involved with, you know, Nick Foligno. I'm seeing the name A.J. Greer. I mean, they just look like right now they're just rolling with everybody. Did you see the shootout goal that your boy David Pasternak scored last night? Oh, my goodness. It is so. Did you see the shootout goal that your boy David Pasternak scored last night? Oh, my goodness. Skipper. He didn't.

It is so. He's just filthy. Well, all these guys with the shootouts try the same thing now, where they come in way far on the left side or the right side. They slow it right down, and then they kind of go really quick in front of the net. Did you see? Here we go. Here we go.

Yeah, he's still slow. Get your stick stick to the middle it's a little over the power he's about broke his wrist six times on the deke that he uh i just love a little creativity something i've never seen before and that's close to one i've never seen before yeah no i mean he kipper knows knows he's good i know but i just i hate to praise him but it was really i love i love that he touches the puck once or twice in the whole deke. There's so much going on with the shoulders and hands and leaning. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's pretty nasty.

One thing on our list to talk about, guys, was Ilya Samsonov gets the belt. Oh, yeah. For the Toronto Maple Leafs for the first time. He's played 11 games at Leaf, never got the belt. Let's hear what Ilya Samsonov thought of getting the belt. A long time I wait. Half year. You know, 11 games.

I'm enjoying. I will go sleep with this. It's not the Stanley Cup, but I will go sleep to it. You can sleep with it. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. He's my favorite. He's better than Jackbell for us in interviews

uh in fact he also weighed in on mitch marner just move on kick a guy when he's down favorite too you gotta win last night he did and he i think he's up to a 900 save percentage in on the season so kudos it's nice that he has kind of played that role though that that kind of relief a little bit. That happy element. He's the levity in our little drama here. He's great for us. Let's listen to him talking about. I was just going to say, like, don't over-rely.

We can crap all over Anaheim. But early, he made some saves. Oh, yeah. He made that breakaway save. He actually caught and held on to. Just as a quick note, not up to 900. He's at 875. 875. Oh, i think he was up to 900 for the game what is save percentage jacks 875 on the year he's got to make he'd have to make 88 straight saves to get up okay all right there's always a chance because he's got

conor mcdavid and dry saddle every night the play should be at the other end of the rink the whole time. Jesus. All right, here's Samsonov on Mitch Marner getting to 23 games straight. You remember what I said. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe. I believe, for sure.

A little bit more. 23, almost 50, yeah? Almost. 23, almost 50, yeah? I love this guy. You heard what I said. Almost 50, yeah? Almost. 23. Almost 50, yeah? I love this guy. You heard what I said. I think Mitch could go another 10, 15 games.

Yeah, I think Thursday will be a tough one. You do, eh? Yeah, Rangers are underachieving. They're a good – it's not like – they're not – they're in the second wild card spot now. They've won four in a row. They're kind of starting to look like the Rangers a little bit. Mitch is getting good looks. Oh, listen.

He's one of the best players in the league. If these guys really bear down, there's so many points that Mitch leaves on the table because guys just aren't finishing. Yeah, they scored seven times last night. You're right. Their line didn't get in. What did they get? Two goals last night? Something seven times last night. You're right. Their line didn't get it. What did they get?

Two goals last night? Something like that? Yeah. They're there. Anyways. John Tavares is just like, so the Marner on my line thing, how long can we do that?

Never change it, right? How many tap-ins has he had off the blue paint? It's a nice compliment because he goes there. Yes. You know, like he's a guy who parks it in the blue and Mitchitch everyone gets their attention drawn to mitch and then all of a sudden john has it and they're like oh i guess there's another dash he is the point per game guy tovar was he a 30 and 30 his whole career 30 points and 30 games he has 925 and 979 career games yeah jp does not call him a superstar on toronto Would you say he's like a good role player

No he said he was added differently The other three were drafted He was added differently He's an 11 million dollar plugger Look at him He grinds man I got a work in his bag off of my co-host That's what you respect about him though

Is every night He is working his bag off He digs his way to the front of the net. He's a horse on the sideboards. Does whatever he's got to do to get that one point per game. Yes, sir. All right. Our thanks to Mike McKenna, Jeff Patterson.

Fun show today. Yep. Selly's 800 goals. Good show. Good show. Give her one of these today. Or another windmill. Yeah, sure. Selly does. Good show. Good show. Give her one of these today. Or another windmill. Yeah, sure.

Selly, don't. All right. And if you've been watching, hit the like button. Give us a rating and review as well. We love to hear from you. We're back tomorrow on Real Kipper and Born. Have a safe night, everybody.