Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Free Agent Forecast

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Justin Bourne, JD Bunkis and Sam McKee check in on the Panthers' Cup parade and discuss whether some aspects of the celebration are getting out of hand. Then, they discuss why Brad Marchand is a perfect fit for Toronto, John Tavares' reportedly rocky contract negotiations and whether there's a chance the Leafs let him walk. Then, the three look at the 2025 UFA class, potential impact players for the Leafs to target, trade options and Mitch Marner landing spots.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into real kipper and born no kipper today. I am joined by the great JD Bunkus who I'm going to introduce in just a moment. Fully all I just I just did. Let's just say hello. Hi JD. Hey, hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Welcome aboard. Glad to have you today We are still live on sports that sports that 590 the fan sports net 960 in Calgary sports to 650 in Vancouver and sports net

Plus technical directors Jake Schultz and Derek Brandeo and as always this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 bunk How are you pal? What's going on? I always want to know where Kipper is when I come in. Wedding? Yeah. Wedding in New Jersey, I think. He's actually funny. He was like... He's a gallivanter. Yeah, he gallivants.

He was actually like, hey, just so you know, Monday, you can call me in the car. I'm going to be driving back from a wedding in New Jersey. No, yeah, for sure. I was like, why don't you just not do that? And he's like, yeah, okay. He agreed. Maybe he wanted to give your show the big scoop. Do you think there is one? Well, he gave one to not your show.

Last week when we were talking about when he thought about Marsha and yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, I know you got a show, right? It's funny is he'll often give it to us involving going on other shows and being like, you don't want to give the good stuff to the other shows or whatever. He's aware of what's going on. Yeah, he came in and I was like, you should have done it. Oh, why? Why? Everyone knew that.

Everybody knew. How have you guys enjoyed watching the Panthers celebrate their Stanley Cup victory? So hard. Hard for you? No, like they're celebrating it hard. Yeah? Hard for you? No, like they're celebrating it hard. I will say it looks exhausting. I can't help but feel like, God, they must be tired.

The most 40 year old guy I think I've ever heard. I think a couple things. One is I've seen some blowback on Twitter from fans of the Oilers and some others that have gone like, this is such a classless way to celebrate the way that they- Oh, classless. What a dumb word. I know, but that's it. Where they've gone, oh, they didn't have to call out the Oilers and some others that have gone like this is such a classless way to celebrate the way that they Assa's what a dumb I know but that's it where they've gone Oh, they didn't have to call out the oilers like March and wearing the losers. I will say I didn't love that I I love it I just again for a sport that is aching for genuine animosity like that thrives in animosity. Of course

Why do you remember avalanche red wings, right? It's like did they get along or did you watch a documentary on it 20 years later because they Hated one another and it was a blood feud. So I love that stuff I think that we don't get enough of that in modern-day sports, especially North American sports where it's like true blue hatred Yeah, like we got that one report where it was hey the things that are being said between these teams is Crossing a line and I went amazing, where can we hear it? I want to hear that. How much would you pay for the live feed?

Well, it's always been our thing. It's like HBO should sell the rights to the on-ice microphones, and then it would get shut down literally a week later because of all the bad stuff that was said. Oh, when they said bad stuff, it meant really bad stuff. I think the Bennett thing, with him being up there,

I understand what he said, but basically being like, yeah, we're dirty and we get away with it and we want or whatever. I do I do think I don't have a problem saying it But I do think that a bit of a tough look for the league being having a guy being up there being like He didn't say I get away with it. He said like people complain. Yeah dirty. Yeah, I apologize to absolutely Yeah, yeah, Connor McGregor line and then did could Chuck go up after I don't know I just saw the one thing I did deliver the same line Hey, they're foggy pal. It was real bad, but he did that I would like to have it apologize to absolutely nobody line after Bennett

Is he did ever miss around like yeah? He said I was thinking about one of my favorite lines and I went wait who went first went first on this? Because this is actually really important. They've been at the album room for five days. I think this is what I mean. It's like, honestly, I watched them the first night. I was like, you should get to sleep with tomorrow's a big day. Hasn't this made you? They're like, how about we just drink all night again?

How's that sound? Hasn't this made you want Marchand more though in Toronto? Just from like the media? I just want to say on the the Oilers losers logo It was the one thing in all this where I was like, ah, you know, you're supposed to Celebrate your team's success and not celebrate the other team's failure. I know but it takes someone to Legitimately do something you consider offensive or across the line to create this real Hatred or animosity that you're talking about which is good I recognize it's good. I also think it's gonna be weird if it was like bark off

Then I would go kind of cringy, but did they try with the nickname the rat? It seems yeah, okay, so what it's like he's green lit. Yeah You can get away with anything. Yeah, he's a made man. I'm away with it But I just it feels like I earned the rat label there Yeah, did they chant f McDavid to at one point was that a thing that I saw some? Yeah, I don't know if they were chanting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were taking part They were enjoying did have on the Instagram feed like thank you Bruins like in response to whatever. I like that. Yeah, I love that I like that one. I like all the hey, thanks for your your cat You know this that the all they're doing is the scene in

What's Scarface? You want to see a bad guy? That's them they're just embracing it they're realizing that it doesn't matter what they do just like al Pacino and Scarface Where he's trying to put on the mask of a legitimate businessman? And yet when he goes out to the restaurant people still look at him with a raised eyebrow and so he loses his mind He's like, you know what fine I'll just be who you think I am right and that's all the Panthers are doing so I'm into it and now they're Their legacy is totally cemented right with the two cups

So it's like they can do and say whatever they were like now They're feeling like truly on top of the world one cups one thing. Yeah, back-to-back cups three straight finals. It's like they are you know there There is a level of it though Sam where we're watching this stuff where it's like they're trying to be like though We don't care whatever yeah, they've earned the right to do it the same time kind of feels like well. There's two things There's two things that bother them a lot and they bring up all the time is the state tax thing. They cannot stop talking. They're talking about it more than other people are talking about it now. And the fact that they have no fans, they are talking about it.

It's like, Oh, they don't have any fans. Like all the people at the bar on the street that your parade's going down happen to be looking out the window. Wow. What a party. That's probably filled with fans for every game. Like the one hot spot, two things that really seem to be bending them out of shape. I didn't think that the team Twitter account should have tweeted like, they say we have no fans like with some pictures the fans or whatever

It's like don't lean into it was like 96% of homes didn't have the game on that they wanted in Florida And they were being literal when they said you have no fans, right? It's a you have significantly less than every other market that I thought about this board By a significant margin and that's what people are pointing to I will slide to your cringe point It's just for me. There's stuff. I enjoy like I've really enjoyed March and run Because it feels very authentic to me for sure Whereas when I see him waiting trying to go back to the bar and they're trying to pull out of it like that I love it

I love seeing that stuff and so when I see the thank you to the other teams for Brad Marchand, who took a, you know, sweetheart deal with the Bruins, went to them hat in hand and said that he wanted to get something done because being a Bruin meant something to him. And then the organization went, we're going to go in a different direction. No thanks. I don't mind him expressing his anger. And it's like we loved it when it was the misfits for Vegas.

So why not do it for guys that were castaways for the Panthers, like for Hagee. Like there's so many of those guys. Seth Jones. Yeah, Seth Jones was viewed as like an untouchable contract in the NHL. Reinhardt was like a failure before he got there. People thought he was no good too.

So yeah, I just think that's a part of sports. But again, to the Marchand point, I like it when it feels authentic and funny. And I'm not trying to take a shot here, but I feel like Kachuk stuff is forced, that he like wants to be the villain, that he's like, and I'm also the bad. And like, it's not nearly as natural. Like the other two guys, Bennett and Marsha and kind of stole the face of what you were for the last team. And now it feels like you're

trying to do the like and I'm gonna shotgun a beer it's like okay okay that's bad boy the Florida the Martian thing though the thing that you said that you're like oh does not make you want him in Toronto more the thing that actually makes me want him in Toronto more is the night they're out there all they win the cup they're partying or whatever and he shows up at Dairy Queen at 11 a.m. The next morning and is signing autographs and taking pictures and like that's just you know you can work hard and play hard I'm like you sign pictures of her kids and all that like I love that

I was amazing funny, but like how many guys actually show up for that like what? What are they paying him nothing like compared to what he's made in his career, like he's made... He could have slept through that alarm. But the fact that he showed up, I'm like, God! Good Canadian boy. He loves embracing the fact that it's like he's having a moment. They're out till 5 am. Yeah, he's having a moment.

And this is why part of me does believe that he'll come to Toronto. Because it seems as though he's at some point of his career where... He's just really enjoying the spotlight He always does the TNT interviews every time they call on him to do something with him in biz He's there for it, but you're one of the best player interview thing within any Shell thing ever and I'm hammering each other you look at even the four nations Who's the guy that's willing to take the phone and do some of the all-access content? It's Brad Marchand who's the guy that's soaking up the moment in Florida and showing up at

Dairy Queen 11 a.m. despite being at 11 till God knows when. Just you think he's left? No, maybe a couple hours. Not much. But either way and just his interactions with people just seem very genuine and funny and I don't know. I just I like it. I will say I was driving in today thinking about the likelihood of March and to Toronto because

You know Kipper talked about it and it does seem likely I have it at what? 51% chance like sure. I think that's a fair number, you know somewhere in that ballpark and I was trying to think of his influence on this room without Marner who is you know another personality of sorts people like Mitch and all that on the team and trying to imagine Marchand with Matthews and trying to draw Matthews out to a comfort level and if Matthews would take to that or not like if he would be receptive to someone you know Matthews is 28 you know we're going to be this next season he's the captain of the team does he want some guy coming in having a good time being like let's have some fun pal I would hope so or is he gonna be like all right well

you haven't been here this is our thing I don't know I don't know the end but our thing stinks everything does yeah it has flamed out when Brad Marchand is at his best of course you have to he'd have to trust me my process when we have the cache to do it so that's fair where I'm at with that element of it is they've had Tabara's and Matthew's is not like as stiff as Tabara's is obviously. Like it's kinda hard to match that. Pretty close though, media-wise.

He's more like snarky, right? He seems perturbed and whatever, I know that the day to day of a media can be probably a bit of a grind. You're having like, you're like any human being, right? There's some days where someone will ask me a question that's totally innocuous But in sleep well the night before I'm having a bad day And then I kind of bite their head off of it and then ten minutes later

You're like yeah, we should kind of had that one back, you know Like so I don't view Matthews is like a problem with the media, but he's not mr Media and at times it feels really tense with that group. Nylander obviously doesn't like talking to the cameras. He seems like a loose guy that doesn't get bothered by... Shit, Nylander doesn't seem like him? Oh, it doesn't bother him. Doesn't seem like he's not bothered, but also not like Mr. Forward-Facing who wants to jump

in front of a microphone and like look at those exit interviews where he's talking about how he mentioned the whole thing of, well, we took them to seven games and I went, Oh God, he doesn't really have it either. They have never had a guy like March and who would be this much of a bonafide dude in the league, a genuine hall of famer, a guy who's been a captain of a team, a guy who's played for team Canada, who would get to come in that room, but then embrace the side that a lot of these guys seem to think is like a real detractor to the job, which is the forward facing element of it. Instead of having to put Matthews out there all the time, or Tavares in the tired stuff all the time, you get

Marshand who steps out in front of a microphone and is willing to say a few things and has done it in a major market in Boston, who has won and who has played on Team Canada and knows how to handle it when the right times are to say something that maybe calls your group out a bit. Maybe the times where he takes a shot at the media and pushes back for the room and is actually able to say something that doesn't sound snarky, but kind of funny and forces you to reflect as the question answer.

Show those guys that the media is not out to get you. This can be fun. Yeah, like you can work with them. Yes. You know, this is not out to get you. This can be fun. Yeah, like you can work with them Yes, you know, this is not a adversarial. Yes thing I think that obviously the thing that's most important for them is if you're buying Brad Marsh and What are you getting from him as a hockey player? Yeah, right because is he gonna be the same guy playing with Matthews as he was on a third line with the Florida Panthers That's not getting the hardest matchups

No, probably not. In fact when I saw saw him at Four Nations, one of my biggest takeaways was, oh, he's not there the next year for Olympics. He seems to be one of the odd men out in terms of guy who can hang here. That was, I mean, those games, those USA Canada games were like maybe the two fastest hockey games. Like that's, you're never going to have those teams didn't have third or fourth. There's no, there's no easy matchups No any of those games, but that but you would I would say that he looks slow in that tournament

You're pulling yourself text is he can't play first-liner You're fooling yourself if you're thinking that Brad Marchand is gonna come to Toronto and have the same on ice impact as he did with the Florida Panthers and Especially once you try to start to age that over a potentially four-year deal which seems to be the way that you're gonna get him Here. Yeah, but to me it's like There's always this conversation of are you overpaying for intangibles, right? Like we did this with Zach Hyman where you're going. Oh these contracts they tend to age bad when it's the guy that doesn't

But contextually with this team to me Marshann makes sense as an overpay like you're really, you've come out as an organization and said that you need to change the DNA of this group. I think that they're trying to do that now with the negotiating table where they're saying we're taking a harder line position with Tavara's, we're taking a harder line position with Matthew Nyes, whatever part they're playing in the Marner stuff, but he's walking away. There's going to be a revamp in terms of the way they're doing things, at least optically today.

But if you wanna tell me about a guy who could come in here and actually change Easton Cowan's career and change Matthew Nye's career and change the outlook of what the next couple of seasons look like in terms of younger players coming through the organization, their approach with the media, their approach with the game,

the joy in which they play with, the looseness that a guy like Marshan brings. I think contextually, if you told me, told me hey Brad Marchand four-year deal at eight million for let's say the Carolina Hurricanes I would go I don't think that makes sense no but for the Maple Leafs in this exact spot that they're in I kind of feel as though it's it's a bit of a perfect marriage and that's why I'd be willing to overpay it I've made this comparison before but I view it very much like the Blue Jays

when they signed Russell Martin. That you know you're buying this four year deal for the first two years of it. That anything you get after the next two years, it's like he's basically becoming a player manager, and you just have to be able to eat that and hope that as the cap rises and then hopefully your negotiations get better,

that you can still find ways to win. Yeah, and that you're able to flex your financial might for the first time in a really long time with other teams not necessarily Being able to you know spend to the cap when it starts going up and up But that the window thing makes a ton of sense to to add on to your point I mean you have the next is it three years left to Matthews to was that the first year of his contract? He was the highest paid guy. Yes last year Yeah So you have three more years here of Matthews under contract like if you're matching up these next three years or four years

However, many it is with Brad March and it's like These are the only three years that really matter like look at how old Tana is look at like some of the older guys in Their team. It's like yeah, he's not he's not that much older than these guys He's a perfect match for all those things that you've talked about and unlike the other than these guys he's a perfect match for all those things that you've talked about and unlike the other Veterans that they've brought in here. It's actually one. It's like it's not Marlo. It's not Thornton. It's not so many complete opposite. It's not spezza it's not all these guys that are like, you know spezza, you know, we like to say we met a man I picked it because of Jordano all these guys they've brought in never won anything and bringing in Marche with that cache and all that stuff

Just makes a ton of sense. So I I'm really really Hoping to my you know, yeah, and then it happens I really am yeah and you kind of hope that the tail end of it works out like Tavares end of it where we all said the back end of that was gonna be bad and then I was like, yeah Okay, they still 30 juice out of that. So on that topic we find there's a report I think Pierre Lebrun this weekend wrote essentially that the Leafs are playing a bit of hardball with Tavares. I had Myrtle on my show today he said that they're further

apart than that both sides are feeling a little sensitive now or that neither side's ultimately very happy I'm kind of paraphrasing him which is the thing insiders hate the most. I't yes, I'll pull it up Well, we have it in here too. So if you want to know here, it's This is from JD bunkers podcast. We have the host. Oh, it's been harder than the least we're expecting There's a little bit of frustration on both sides James Myrtle today on his podcast. Okay, so I Know my thought on this and in LeBrun's piece He said something to the effect of you know Tavares knows that or sorry the Leafs know that Tavares wants something to the effect of, you know, Tavares knows that,

or sorry, the Leafs know that Tavares wants to stay here and that's their leverage. And Tavares knows that the Leafs can't exactly afford to lose them. And that last part is what catches me, they can't afford to lose them. Are we sure? Because everyone, yeah, there's nothing else

in the UFA market, I get that. But like, I just can't imagine a world where you go another three or four years with the forest when it has not worked and it's not going to get better. You already can't play him in the you know against top lines in the playoffs. You're suddenly it's like okay he doesn't PK we need to start him in the ozone he's to play with good players and he's to be like you're trying to like position it so it works for him.

If he goes somewhere else do you think he's going to drive a line for seven million dollars. I'm not so sure that Tavares has leverage that this is what sucks about it for me is this negotiation thing I know I didn't think we were and you two both. I didn't think we're gonna have to have these conversations I think he was like I want to be here. Let's do it for four Well, they said right after yeah during them again the media. Yeah, he was like I want we already had a good conversation With bars and it's just he's already spent seven years here Working against a contract where it's like he's working backwards from it where everyone is crapping all over this guy's not Steve It's just killing them. I understand you're wanting to get what you're worth and you're seeing other guys sign out there I totally get it, but I just it's I'm so surprised that we're in this scenario with this

I just thought he was gonna be like a do Shane thing four and a half times four like it's gonna be done the first time It's the time it's able to be done Yeah, and it's like now this one is going out through the media like this one that seemed like a layup You can't get your money. No one's saying don't get your money. Just go get it I'm really frustrated and surprised by this. I truly am like it's just I did not expect this so great. This is a great talk because I I think whatever deal Tavares is willing to sign today in Toronto Works for every other team in hockey especially given the free agent market right now, right? Like if you told another team

Hey, John Tavares gonna sign with you for three years at six million per. In a world where Brock Nelson got seven. I think you go, yeah, I think you go, yes. Every team would take that. Right. So whatever it is that he's offering, every team could take it. But just like the Martian thing, the context here matters. You've already paid John Tavar $77 million. Did he earn it?

Has he entered free agency? Yes. Was there some discussion of he could have even gotten more at the time and took less? I don't know. You've already paid John Tavar's $77 million. Did he earn it? But has he entered free agency? Yes. Was there some discussion of he could have even gotten more at the time and took less? I don't know. I feel like that's kind of a bit of an urban legend. The St. Ols' 8 thing? Yeah.

I feel like that was some maybe manufactured leverage. Yeah, I think it's a little, I've never heard anybody tell me point blank that that's 100% true. He was gonna go. Yeah, he was gonna go and it was 13 was 13 million percent of the like either way he clearly had options he could have signed this deal in other places and he came to Toronto so it's not like Toronto just did him a huge fail favor bailed him out for an 11

million dollar it was like fair market value but still you've made 77 million with the Leafs plus what you've made with the Islanders. Everybody wants to feel paid and appreciated for their work, but for John DeVar's, no one's appreciating you for anything more than what you don't take. That the last play for you is winning a Stanley Cup. You want to make your market value? Go to Utah then. Yeah, you can.

That's what I'm saying. Go get it. And no one's going to cry, and everyone's going to say- We're going to judge you. For sure. And I think that that's fair. That's what I'm saying. Go get it. And no one's going to cry and everyone's going to say... We're going to judge you. For sure. And I think that that's fair. That's what we do for a living. But for a guy that has positioned himself throughout his entire career is like a Sidney Crosby light, right?

The guy who's always on the ice, the guy who's always working hard, a guy who always says he's a consumable professional. A guy who's got his eyes on the main prize and that is to win a Stanley Cup in Toronto. A guy who sacrificed the captaincy because he thought it was what was best for the team and didn't make waves about it. For him to now be fighting with the organization over an extra couple million dollars, and I know that sounds stupid to some people.

No, it does not. Yeah, millions are still millions. He's got $100 million he set up in Etobicoke. He's got his whole family here. You have the opportunity to retire as a Toronto Maple Leaf. The last thing that you should be caring about is trying to win a contract negotiation for a few million dollars. And frankly, I think that Toronto's price has to not just be lower than the rest of the league. Like it has to be significantly lower than the rest of the league.

If you're not gonna squeeze him, who are you ever gonna squeeze? Totally. Like, how are you ever gonna... Is it a business or is it not a business? Where is the precedent gonna be that you're gonna be able to get another aging free agent player that wants to play in Toronto Who's like more set up here that you're gonna play are deep? Yeah, who are you gonna play hardball with? Yeah, you don't get to do that with Brad Marchand. You don't get that you didn't do that with your RFAs It doesn't look like you're gonna be able to do that with Matthew Nyes

By the way, like that might be a bit more of a difficult negotiation You have to flex your muscle if you're Brad Trier living. And as painful as it may be to replace John Tavares with Mikhail Granland, right? No one thinks that that's a good swap amongst the players. But at some point, you got to have some organizational pride and go, what are we even losing here if we lose John Tavares? Okay, we're paying him $6 million, let's say. Like, oh, that's the haircut of a deal.

Let's, $6 million. You've won nothing Like, oh, that's the haircut of a deal. Let's say, $6 million. You've won nothing. You already outlined what he is as a player today. He's gonna score 28 goals next year. What is he? And get caved in by the Florida Panthers. What's he two years from now? Is he on the wing on the third line?

Oh yeah, now you're moving him to wing. Right. So, I just don't view it as some big risk that you lose him. I think it's, you take that hard line position. To me, the number has to start with a four, flat out. You're not giving him more than four and a half, 4.8, somewhere in that range.

Yeah, stretch it out, but it's gotta start with a four. You have to have the optics of, we got him on a similar deal to Matt Duchenne, I don't care about the state tax, I don't care about Matt Duchenne getting bought out of his other deal. That guy looked at the Dallas Stars and said, I'm old, I still wanna win, I'm happy with my situation. I'm set up here. I want to be here

You got to do the same with the bars Taurus also won his tech tax thing with the CRA or whatever So it's a win for all of us. I see it's a massive win for all of us to let athletes know they can come here And keep more of their money. I'm not I meant it more just like I hate the tax man Right, but but I do think it's great for Toronto for Canadian sports fans who want there to be ways For these guys to keep their money, so it's more appealing to come here But yeah It is gonna be fascinating because I also think if this is home and where you want to be we're gonna retire You don't want people always viewing you through the lens of what you earn a contract

Well, if you make six million dollars, yes, just be the guy who's from here 100 shmul I see 111 so far. Yeah, you know what's but like is he really? Grinding like his agent. Maybe not maybe this is like our We've got multiple reports and in a climate where I just Sam Bennett standing up at a podium going I'm not leaving where Matthew Shane's going. Hey it's done. It's over I mean where like station Yeah, and not to make this about the state tax stuff again because I do think it's a part of it But even an RFA like Maverick Bork signs the one-year deal immediately for literally like 900k basically free and

There's just deals being done all around the hockey world Tons of contracts are getting signed if there was one place in the hockey Universe that was dying for one offseason where we weren't doing this stuff It's here and so for Tavares to even not be able to understand that of what a lengthy Negotiation starts to look like for him even if he does end up going to the number. It's just it's burning people out We're sick of it. That's that's exactly what I was gonna say. It's like we're just there's too much Contract negotiation. Yeah, PTSD to have it showing you that they can't learn anything. Yes. It's like the same It's like Tavares is doing this now

Like when everybody thought it was just a slam dunk and there's just people are gonna resent them if it's anything above five It's like every year we go into the plaster like maybe they've learned maybe they've learned We get it's all about to get back to the contract talks that gets happening again But they haven't learned how much of this is It being just Toronto and the agents using whatever like how much of that is in this but that's Crummy enough it to me if you're trying to do that at this point. Yeah, that's that's it But so to me the bigger question more conspiratorial. Yeah, like fully tinfoil. Yeah, let's go is that The whole league, you know how when the best players take less money your question more conspiratorial yeah like fully tinfoil is that the whole

league you know how when the best players take less money all the rest of the league gets pissed because they go hey you're the ones that are supposed to be people were pissed at Connor yeah he took 13.25 whatever he took that's my point is that there's always this undercurrent of when the best players don't maximize their value that they've not done well by the rest of the league and I do wonder sometimes not to over it, but if there's added pressure in Toronto because it is the most visible. But see, no.

See, because to me, you're easily able as another agent or a team to say, Crosby took 8.7 times 2. That's an outlier. That's, you know, he's Sid He's doing that because blank blank blank and you can do that with Tavares, right? It's like his number has Tavares made more money than Sid in his career now. God's a great question Yeah, but like this thing is a great example where he's like we're not doing a big negotiation. It's not about money I'm gonna give these guys two more years. I'm trying to win another cup eight seven. Okay, you know

we have 90 points this year a team Canada like I Just don't see how you can be like I want a million less than said but has he made more I oh I thought you Yeah, I thought you were googling it. I was like anyway, I just I'm with you. I agree I think that they got a squeeze to bar not even close. It's made 35 million. Okay 114 JT 147 for Sid Sid signed one of those long 13 ones for eight seven, didn't he? Yeah, that's right. But when they did like the greasy Elia Kovalchuk one era,

like yeah, 12 years. They started around the same time. Yeah, they did. That's why. Yeah. So, but I just, I'm with you guys. I'm at the point where I know that you're not supposed to be quote unquote punting. I'm not advocating that's what they do.

I'm not saying let Tavara's walk and then don't try to be creative. You're going to have to do other things. You're going to potentially have to entertain deals involving some of your younger players. You might have to be creative with your blue line. Like I was talking today that maybe you already are talking about flipping Brennan Carlo somewhere else for some center depth. Yeah, it's not a pretty thing, but I would much rather the Leafs finally take the position and say, no, this is not the same management group.

We're not just capitulating to your wants. If you don't want to be here for the number that we have, then we're going to find a different way to win. And last year, everybody, everybody took to the pulpit and hammered the Tampa Bay Lightning for the way that they treated their captain, the face of their franchise, Steven Stamkos. Myself included. And could you imagine had they actually gone up and paid him that deal?

Like the odds Tavares could end up in the exact same situation where he walks from Toronto, goes and signs $7 million in Utah, and we're looking at his numbers and going, hey, their power play kind of stinks and they're talking about taking Tavara's off power play one and Yeah, they don't use them in the D zone and people in Utah who don't know anything about hockey are frustrated with this guy easy That's not a non zero percentage close personal friend Ryan Smith's right fans are talking about there. Yeah, all right. Yeah, he's Sure, great. Thank you. Um, okay, we know comment Yes, sure. Yeah, thank you. Um, okay, we know comment We'll draw a clean break because we have lots of other topics So it's let's do a game time before we we do that though, Sam

It's game time center by bet 365 visit the app latest odds and find out what's ever ordinary bet 365 miss 50 plus on terror Only please play responsibly so The I was just looking at bet 365 just so we were to know what we're gonna talk about here because there's literally no No more sports. It's it's kind of grim. Actually. I get a little bit sad at this time Swelling box pitching tonight for Atlanta. Oh, okay. No what I was gonna ask you guys a Couple of favorites for next year's regular season awards. Hmm. Oh They have those posted on here. They're rock. me give me was the last in Matthews heart trophy odds

Austin Matthews heart trophy odds last He is 1,500 plus 1600 right now. I can give you I mean you're not gonna need many guesses to need it to See who the favorite is. Yeah Connor McDavid, Nathan better Matthews. So he's healthy The rocket with the rocket Richard Richard trophy Matthews until he sees healthy. The Rocket Richard, Richard Rishard trophy. Matthews is a second favorite behind Leon Dreisaitl. Maybe not a bad bet on Matthews there at plus 400. Yeah, plus 400.

No. The Norris is- You're gonna wait all year for plus 400 on Austin Matthews? The Norris is, McArthur's a favorite. Who do you think the favorite for Jack Adams is? What a weird thing to be. Who do you think is gonna coach best next year? Ah, the favorite for Jack Adams. So it's always gotta be a coach on a team that is like on the rise. I don't know. Keefe?

No. Oh, it's like... Quenville. Quenville is the favorite at plus 750. And then it's... That's a good one. I'm mad that I didn't guess that. Yeah, because there's the potential for the story. And the Calder Memorial Trophy, the Demidov is a massive favorite at plus 160.

And then it's a bunch of guys that I'm not really sure about. So there you go. Anyways, that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out what's ever ordinary at Bet365, Miss Funky Plus, Ontario Only. Please play responsibly. All right.

When we come back, we're going to talk about some non-Brad Marshand free agents that would work for the Leafs, possible Mitch Marner destination, and much more after this. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL, the JD Bunkus podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Bourne subbing in for a kipper today, my man, JD Bunkus and the JD Bunkus podcast and Leafs Talk. A few more topics to go man JD Bunk said the JD bunk is podcast and Leafs talk Few more topics to go here bunk. I missed this talk. What's that? I miss Lee's talk. Is that true? I did I love doing those show. I'll tell you it's a great show. It was I really enjoyed getting I miss it on the good games. Where's they're like a game seven was on Saturday

I do not miss Columbus Tuesday night. Yeah, I gotta ask you how we're like Sam Bennett, you know It's like we get through the regular season. You're fine. They're the playoffs. It's like that's when we really start to excel How do you feel that your? instant emotional takes How do you feel typically they age like the next day? Do you often feel like they were wrong or do you feel like it's pretty much how you end up feeling? I'm a guilty conscience guy. I've woken up multiple times the next day being like, God, you idiot.

I told you guys this before, but like, Lamarello had all the coaches when I was in the American League. You fill out a thing before you talk to anyone, send it away, then you talk, then you watch a video, and like the next day, 80% of the time you're like, oh, I had him all wrong. I really don't want to sound like too precious about this because I think what we do is mostly just really fun.

You get to shoot it with your buddies and like our show is literally one of my best friends who's ever lived. I get to just sit there with and do what we've done as friends like our entire relationship. Which is like bitch and moan about the team or then like celebrate something fun that's happening. But I really like that I'm able to do the reactionary show and then sleep on it and then see how I feel about stuff in the morning and then do another show. Yeah, that is nice to have that. Yeah, I get the here's how I was feeling.

And so sometimes I don't know what the hit rate is. I'm guessing that if you pulled the audience to be like, you get it wrong every time. Actually, it depends where you go. I get it wrong every time. If you go to like my Instagram followers, it's like that's people who really like me. If you go to like my YouTube comments, it's mean. It's meanness generally.

Yeah, exactly. Twitter, everybody's so jacked up and like polarized already. Like Instagram, you're just scrolling watching dog videos. So when you see something from somebody else, you reach out and you're like being kind because you're like, I was just looking at a puppy. On Twitter, it's like, hey, World War III is going to is gonna happen and also here's free agent news and you're primed up Remand anything somebody puts out there in the world. You're like, okay It's different it depends on the app. Yeah, I get to know social media is the

Dividing so let's talk about free agents for the Leafs Brad Marchand is obvious We talked with him in the first chunk of the show. We all want him. There's not much out there. There's not much out there. And I am of the belief that to remake this team the way that I think it should be, you probably have to make some moves. You probably have to make a deal.

I don't know if that's... I don't think we should start there because there is free agency out there. Do you have a couple of guys in mind? Do you have anyone in mind that you think, okay, there's a guy that the Leaf should definitely go and get? Brandon Teneff. Oh yeah? Oh, like the most. I'm fully on this train. Okay.

Again, people will, some people will hate my off season because they'll go. He's a wood chipper. Why are you paying so much for another guy at the bottom of the lineup that you don't think is going to add goals to your team? But again, I'm talking DNA change. What was the number one point of DNA change for this team this year? TANF Chris and questionably. Yeah, what do I want more TANF if I get down on the bench? Telling me hey, what do we want? Who was it? They hired his dad to try to sign him? Uh VC Hey, what do we want? What was it? They hired his dad to try to sign him? Uh VC V. Yeah, right. You want a VC? Yeah, remember that they even sign here

And then VC ended up crawling back and his legacy is the only guy Sheldon Keefe ever yelled at vanilla You think it's been the only guy Sheldon Keefe took a side in the Amazon series was like you're gonna get cut We don't like the way you play with his math like well Don't agree my left we gave her say, uh Yeah I really I really love the idea of having a line that has Brennan ten of and Stephen Lawrence on it and then figuring out Who the other wood chipper is gonna be and going I want to have essentially Some iteration of the Islanders identity line

where you're going, God, those guys are just awful to play against. They're just hitting you all the time. And I don't know. I bet you all the company teams have someone like that. Like it's it's Gord, Goodrow and Coleman, or it's Lundell, Luster and in March and it's, you know, my other thing with TANF is that normally those guys get like you a little overpaid and my hope is again that you're targeting Someone who wants to be here who would be going I'd love to finish my career playing with my brother in Ontario Yeah, that seems appealing to me and I'm a believer in the brother factor

I think if you were listening to this and you have a brother that you like some people don't But you know it it's like there's no one that you'd rather be around at the end of the day. And so the idea that you're keeping Chris Tanev a little bit happier, you're adding more of the Tanev DNA to the team, you're adding something that I do think is a personality change and just the dude who loves hockey and plays it the right way. To me, he's like very, very high on the target list. I do like Brandon Tanev. You know, I was going through Anthony Petrilli's a three part series on potential like free agents and stuff on Maple Leaf Hot Stove.

Yeah, it's, you know, it's well done. There's just not many choices. You know what I mean? Like, it's like Sam Bennett not coming here. Marshand, we've ruled out as like maybe coming here. Tavara's Marner. Yeah. It's the horrifying thing is the amount of cab space and a

horned up new general manager with way more responsibility. That is looking up for the laws of Marner. That is like trying to fill an enormous amount of holes on your of your forward core. Yeah, it's like that is the horrifying mix here before next off. I don't think it's that horrifying, though, from this standpoint.

It's like, well, I mean mean the cap spike just asked that. No, the cap spike thing, it's like, I'm thinking of those Malay and Luch each Troy Brower year when the cap went way up and then those guys got insanely overpaid. That's what I'm very terrified of at this very moment. I think that's gonna happen. So the fact that there's not a lot of free agents out there

is also to me a little bit of a, oh, you're probably not gonna end up doing something too stupid long-term It's just there's nobody that I think you're doing that with like well doing manji apani. There's one day I do love manji apani Nick healers. Yeah, well, no, that's right again. I know Nick healers is gonna Be fit right in he would be the most perfectly family love Nick healers Yes, there's there's like a faction of people that love like, it's like... Hold on, I haven't even said I want to. Oh, wow.

You did in private. Did you not just imply that? No, no, I'm saying this is, you said there's not a guy out there that they could overpay with this cap space. That would be dangerous. There is one. I was going to say, well, Brock Bester is the other one. Brock Bester's a great example.

Yeah, those are the two guys that I look at. If the Leafs signed, I would not be thrilled because and it's not because I don't think that either of them could be good contributors and regular season players. I would just be looking at it going. Oh, those aren't. That's not the skill sets that I think you need on this team. You know what Nick Ealers is for me.

Nick Ealers is if you've gone to Eaton Center and you're shopping and you need a shirt because you're going to a party and you're like I gotta get something all my stuff is whatever we're moving. It's all I have to leave here with a shirt There was a shirt that looks so great, but it's a size too small and you tried it on it It didn't work. You're like, okay. I've been here for three hours. I gotta get going. I'm late. I need something It's expensive Maybe it's not as small as it felt when I tried it on maybe it's it's gonna work And you talk yourself into it and you get to the party and you feel the shirt on you like God

I hate this shirt or you so uncomfortable in this shirt or you bought it because it was really expensive And so you're like it must be good must be good You're like if it's me poorly It's not my look you guys are big shopper Dan flashes Very complicated batter You know that it I can sit there and talk myself into Elers You know, I don't want Brandon Tanev. You need more talent. You need to score. You need to be faster. You're slow Hey, you're the guy that actually he fought a couple of times and his playoff numbers were big or better this year.

I can get there where I'm like, the shirt fits okay and it's expensive and it is a complicated pattern. So I can talk myself into Elers. I know it's not. I know it's not the right fit. Can I just say the one counter? Sure. This is the easiest one.

So if you told me like you're bringing back the team, yeah, but Marner's gone and they brought in EELers fixed it. Yeah Eight and a half and you spend more, you know, yeah But I guess that's my questions like where does the rest of the money go and there's just not to me There's it's like I I like the local guys coming in here for cheap and looking at this offseason more as a Can you get dudes on not? So don't me the first year was a great contract. They got maxed oh me It was a one-year deal and million three million bucks. It was a prove-it deal He played great the mistake was that four years the next year they went hey

Even though no one's ever wanted you for more than a year, here's four and... Almost four million. Yeah, that was the mistake. Good to play off, though. I like those kind of deals thinking like, if Manji Apani, a Toronto kid, is sitting there, I'm not a huge fan. I like to match him more in Calgary than I like to... anyway. There's something there, though, right? And there's a bit of bite to his game, he can finish.

I'm into Manji Apani. My hope is, again, He can finish. I'm I'm into Monty. Yeah My hope is again that and maybe I'm being way too pipe dreamy with this stuff But I'm going alright if you come to Toronto and you play for a one-year deal Can you up the value can you be in the center of the eye? Can you see if you actually love playing for your hometown? Maybe it goes like that's the thing with these Toronto guys is that there's a scenario right where things go really well Like that's the thing with these Toronto guys is that there's a scenario right where things go really well And you get that year one of Domi where people love you Domi was bad for a lot of the season then Marner got hurt and he had a good stretch and by the end of it people

Were like this is the kind of guy that you have the sign up. We love you. We'll build Idols for you and I view a guy like Maggi a Pawnee like that It's like yeah, man get the Woodbridge boys going fired up for you. Like that's yeah What yeah, it's kind of like small Justin Williams to me. Like he's kind of, he's not big, he's not strong, but he's smart and finished. Very popular. I'm at the discount wrap looking at things and going,

this used to be really nice. Like this was a good brand. Ooh. Winners. It's not the perfect fit. Like me seeing Banana Republic in Costco the other day. You see those It's like this used to be a little bit hotter Yeah, I'm a couple seasons late maybe on it, but maybe I'm pulling it off

Maybe I put this shirt over top of it and the look is where it's good. I Can see it I can see it he is so the one thing and I'm gonna lump in two of our questions I mentioned that I think the trades kind of have to happen. It killed me the other day as someone who wants the Islanders to do well to see Noah Dobson's name. You know, being Elliott Friedman had him rumored to be whatever. This relates to your Brandon Carlo thing, where Dobson is a guy who's had 70 points in the league as a right shot defenseman and he's 24 years old.

The Leafs need offense from the back end they need a puck mover Carlo's been good for them I actually like Carlo yeah but he stylistically is so much more of what they need okay can we put something together where okay Carlo goes to the Islanders I don't know is it a pick is that a prospect I don't know how you end up making this deal because it would be expensive to get no jobs I mean, what picks or prospects do you speak of? I mean, Topi Niemiłot just went and signed in Sweden. So, right.

Who did Roni? So did Roni. Did he really? Our two guys, Topi and Roni are gone. I don't feel bad about us minimizing them for the past five years then. Yeah, but no, I just like that's the only way I could see. Okay, that's a really meaningful thing to get a guy like that I recognize they don't have the cash to know but that obviously to me pattern

That's kind of like one of the more ideal paths that you can take is finding a way to take a good roster player and upgrade without having to Take a massive cap hit. Mm-hmm. Like that's the only thing I think that you have to avoid in terms of deals that involve star players is having it feel like, oh wait, are we just back to core four here, core three here? Like we've got, to me, the idea of this is that you're gonna be trying to spread the money around

a little bit more. And even though Marsha and you'd be looking at and saying, well, isn't that eight million? Isn't that what you're talking about? It's like, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like that's a chunk. Exactly. Like it's not going to be the 14 Marner one or the 13 Marner one. It's like, how are you going to appropriate the other five million dollars from that deal for a second guy? And so that's why I'm looking at like, yes, Marshan is number one. I think if they strike out on him, frankly, it's hard to see how they put the money together

to get to the cap. And some of these, all of a sudden you're just saying, screw it Tavares, just take the money. Or you're just under the cap and you just wait for McDavid. Like I said, do you guys want me to break through quickly there? I'd rather leave a hole and figure it out later than to try to rush something in right now. Any Kane interest interest Patrick Kane

Like I don't have any small like a little a dash a dash of it like I wouldn't mind seeing Kane get a look with Matthews. Yeah, but is it something that I'm like you gotta and you just watch that Stanley Cup final Like yeah, maybe Kane could have another year if he's a million bucks he had 59 points last year I know he's a prize a million bucks. What was his last deal? He signed for Denise. I'm Yeah, okay, so I'm just and again It's I'm doing this because Taves just signed but how did when I saw that Taves contract where it was like make up to seven million Dollars it was five point two five in the regular season Yeah, they say when a cup is up to seven so but it's like is that what he got

I know buddy if he just plays like 60 games and they make it a playoffs It's a five point two five million dollar contract good agent. King's is four million last year. That's what I'm saying is I Don't want to I don't want to pay Patrick Kane Yeah, four million dollars, but I would take Patrick Kane instead of Max Domi if you move his money Yeah, you know something like that where it's like can you then? You could have done that scenario with a lot. But now you have no centers on the roster. It's like Domi right now is on track. What about Pugh Suter? Pugh Suter is going to make four and a half million. He scored 20 taking shoot it. He, you know, you can interest me in that. You

know, that's when he's 29 years old. I don't know. There's just not fast, not big. With that, my entire problem with everything this off season is that it's like the one center that you'd like to have back on a really cheap deal is the bars and for whatever reason it doesn't seem like it's going that way right now. We'll see how it plays out. The rest of the center market is terrible. There's no way to really pivot your D in a way that you're looking at it and going, okay, this kind of a shakeup would be good for you free agent wise.

There's just a bunch of wingers that you kind of like. Like I like Riley Smith. Yeah. You know, like. How about a league minimum deals this Cole Kepke who was on a good line in Boston last year or. It's stuff like that. It's, it's moves like that, that I look at and go, Hey, can you find a good bargain version

from this group of players? Yes. The Canes, the Mongey uponies,, guys that are coming in under the full market value because they would rather play in Toronto, whether it's a chance to win, make a little money off the ice, get a little bit more visibility, whatever it is, that's sort of the way I'm looking at it as a more holistic standpoint, rather than me feeling like there's one target that you gotta have other than Tanev, because like I said, more Tanev. You know who is out there as a UFA is Leaf's

Deadline legend last year Luke Coonan. No Luke Coonan. Oh, they can get him for they can get him for whatever. Yeah, that was a hot rumor Hot rumor. I don't think Mikey eats a lot. I've seen enough Luke Coonans. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways. Okay. So where's Marner going? There you go. So that is the question. So Marner's not gonna be a Toronto Maple Leaf. Did you hear? So what is the most fascinating? You know, what outcomes do you see? What would be the most interesting? The most fascinating Florida it is 100% like yes, no even second place It is that also he can't win if he goes to Florida like I don't mean like he can't physically win I mean, there's almost no way to. If you go and you win the cup,

you're Kevin Durand who went to Golden State, never goes, well you kinda got one, but whatever. And if you go and you don't win, everyone went, this guy's toxic. How do they lose to Leafs with him on there? You know, like to me it's a lose lose. I can't have the thunder and then that. The thunder and then Mitch Marner eliminates Leafs

in the same calendar year would be too much for me to endure I Would say that so Florida would be one two would be Carolina simply because of the lack of Waving the no move. Yeah, because if he was to sign there you go Hey, everyone understands that your wife was pregnant and that that was a difficult thing to do but you are a myth like that That's not an unprecedented thing that's ever happened in sports where someone's had to move when someone was pregnant and they had to figure out like you have the means any old check on our

show got traded while his wife was in labor like I'm just I understand why he didn't want to do it I was I'm fine with him not doing it in that situation I'm just saying that if he was to sign in Carolina, it would come up. It would be like pretty painful to go, wait, so we could have had Miko Ranton in here, not just for that run, but also for the future. And it was all because you weren't willing to go there earlier.

Like think about how it felt for those of us of a certain age when Sundeen did decide to come back and play in the NHL I felt very bad. Yeah, it did and Obviously everyone got over that and I think that we as a market overreacted to Sunday when he didn't wave the no-move originally But for a little bit there It was a real tough feeling until he came back and won a game against the Leafs and then it was like things are better now I can't top corner. Yes, so To have it go that way where you sign with that team and it directly cost you a Hall

of Famer. Yeah. Where do you think he's going? Vegas. What's the thought process there? I think that they get rid of Patrangelo and that they find ways to... That's what the Golden Knights do. And this is my whole thing with people who are like, well, you

don't want to sign bad contracts because what if McDavid comes up? You're like, you'll just move off the money. That's what good teams do. And that's why I think Vegas does. Yeah, I think LA because it sounds cool. Ducks. You guess it's a lives of dogs with Quenville. Yeah, trying to like be win.

Now. We I think he goes to the Ducks use the perfect 14 and a half million minutes will be the guy for the duck. Yeah, either way. I'm just sick of where those candy ass jerseys are bunk. Thanks and a half million. We'll be the guy for the duck. Either way, I'm just sick of it. Wear those candy ass jerseys. All right, Bunk, thanks for joining us, pal. We will be back tomorrow with Nick Kiprios. And yeah, we'll see you then.

Thank you very much. You