Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Get What They Need from Bottom Six

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee break down the Maple Leafs' dominating 5-0 home win over the Los Angeles Kings, Nick Robertson's injury, TJ Brodie's return to the lineup and Pierre Engvall's game misconduct. Doug MacLean makes his weekly appearance (41:44) to discuss the Columbus Blue Jackets' struggles, if the Leafs need to trade for a defenceman and if the impressive play from their bottom six can be relied upon in the playoffs. Later, JD Bunkis (1:06:20) shares his thoughts on if the Leafs should approach a Morgan Rielly trade, what position they should target in return, and the Kyle Dubas contract situation. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. It is off the rails Friday. We have no idea what's in store for the next two hours. Fridays are a relief because we don't have to be professional. No. Come to think of it though, we're really rarely professional. It is hilarious to act like it's ever anything but Friday, but yeah. When they've run out of professional hosts

and allow me to kind of start this thing every day. Yeah. It is hilarious that they're like, who can host the Kiprio show? And they're like, what about Kiprios? And it worked. You know what else is working? Everything for the Toronto Maple Leafs. They can't do anything wrong.

Best defensive team in the history of the sport. They were doing okay. In the last two and a half, three weeks, it has worked. Once again, dominating the Los Angeles Kings last night. Mitch Marner's point streak continues. Samsonov, Murrayray and that doesn't really matter pitching a shutout put a zamboni driver in there saturday night it's a really good chance he's gonna give up two goals or less yeah that's how good they've been yeah i mean it

doesn't even feel like we're talking about the maple Leafs. They've been without top 3D, and they're a fantastic defensive team. Don't even know what to say. Did one of the reporters, Steve Simmons, ask Sheldon Keefe, like, can you just skip straight to March? Yeah, it's an awesome question. Do you want to get right into it? Oh, yeah. Let's just do that one real quick here.

Great question. We're going to get here in a second. In March. In March. There we go. My good buddy Derek Brandeo was a little slow with the trigger finger. You kind of wish it was March. Whether I do or don't, there's no point in going there and thinking about it.

It's not. We've got a long road ahead. So it's another practice day tomorrow. It'll be a real light day for us tomorrow. You know, we're still – to be honest, I was a little uncertain about how we were going to come out here tonight. I just felt coming back from Dallas is tough. It's a longer road trip. We only played two games.

Just traveled back yesterday. It's not much of trip. We only played two games. Just traveled back yesterday. It's not much of a recovery day for us. And then you go right into it to a game day today. Obviously, the guys responded really well, but we've got to be mindful of it going forward here. So we'll have a real short practice tomorrow and get ready for Calgary. You know what's kind of interesting

is that there's a lot in Leaf Nation that really pushed hard the narrative we don't care about the regular season oh yeah that was the theme of the year and it's gone

it's gone no no no no no it's gone it's gone that's what you're going to tell me it's gone no no no no no it's gone 28 was it could i tell you that it's it's gone that's what you're gonna tell me it's gone and you were one of them oh he was all in on that hey you now look at this team and go stanley cup or bust no i look at this team and say now that they're good again you could even go as far as to say elite again. Don't talk about playoffs. It's now all I care about is I don't care about the regular season anymore.

Now that they're elite, you cared before. Now, when they were, whatever, under 500 out west playing like crap, I was like, oh, my God, am I going to have to sweat this regular season? So it does matter, though. The regular season does matter. This was the ultimate the Leafs couldn't win because if they were bad, people cared. And now that they're good, people like Sammy are like,

well, whatever. Yeah. We knew they would be, but we didn't. That's why... It's getting redundant. The only time the regular season mattered was for the first eight games this season. The rest of it doesn't matter.

They're going to win, you know, 75% of their games are going to have 110 points and they're going to play Tampa Bay in the first round. Thanks for listening to Real Kipper Unborn. See you later. Imagine being dismissive. We actually felt that way at the beginning of the season. We really should just come on the air for an hour

and like 53 minutes of just dead air. Thanks for watching. Yeah, exactly and uh see you in april see you in april when our show really starts yeah well and that was the expectation pretty good team should beat the bad teams should beat the average teams see you in playoffs but i tell you i think the real story was and i think you would agree with this is did they do anything in the regular season that made you believe it would be different that they were a different team than the ones that went

into playoffs and fell short in the past and that was it that was the evaluation of the team and now you sit here and go shut out shut out top defensive team are they different and that's the story to me did i okay so i say a lot of dumb things but i gotta ask you two guys did i say it was different last year i'm sure you did yeah i feel like you did damn it that was gonna be my go-to take today maybe it is different this year but i say that every year so let's go to sheldon keep to describe the game uh we did hear parts of this i didn't really pay attention when you played it earlier on it's friday you don't have to know what's happening until the show starts i'll totally frank the tank on you and be frank here but uh i didn't pay attention is he is he now at the point where he's been so positive with him, he's actually got to find some fault a little bit?

Let's find out. Okay, let's find out. We've been playing really good defensively for quite some time now, but I thought offensively with how we moved the puck from our back end all the way through the neutral zone and then how we played on offense, we created a lot of looks on offense here tonight. All right, positive. It was a lot harder for us the last time we played these guys out in California.

And today I thought we moved the puck really well. And, you know, I'll have to go back and really watch it all. But that first period might have been our best period of the game, and we didn't even score in that one. But I thought the work we did in the first period really showed up in the second. To me, it looked like our opposition was tired, and we earned that. All right. There it is a little bit.

You think not giving them credit? Not as positive. That's all positive. No, no, it is all positive. But now there's a part of him that says, did we just play a tired team? Well, this was actually you and our group chats every week last year when it was like every time they were up a goal, they're like, the Flyers stink. The Devils stink. like the flyers stink the devil stinks the blue jackets teams that stink and last night i could

watch la and say uh they they're not very good either yeah but now it's starting more than ever for me to go okay maybe they stunk because the leafs were just that good yeah i mean by any sort of like the fancy metrics like they just i mean you guys know this it was the game they dominated the game and even in clinic yes and even in the third period where la had more shots or more shot attempts chances were nine to two for the leafs you know like it was still a leafs hockey game so i can see the idea that you just wore la down to the nubs and you break through in a six minute span and pierre ang we had a show yesterday where we said who's gonna score in the bottom six pierre angvall shoots one in the net

on the power play right in our eye we followed by camp we uh yes i would say we went as far as to scoff at him on the second power there was scoff we were scoffing and then he does a toe drag top corner snipe yeah but then it just makes it more frustrating because he can shoot it like that and that in itself like i'm watching the first like everybody else i'm going they're up to cob and no marner no tavaris no willie, no Matthews. I mean, now it's a different look. If you're getting that type of production now, or just at least being the threat of that, now it changes the look of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Really changes it.

Yeah, if you believe it can happen with any consistency it changes well that's the magic right question like i do wonder about david camp like if you're to power rank the most valuable forwards to the toronto maple leafs and not just because he shoots one in last night but where is he on the list you mentioned the big four names skipper you know we all knew the big four are up front after that you know maybe bunting ahead of him big mike you know i don't know who else you put ahead of camp i mean he kills penalties he takes care of the bottom six well plays 82 games a year which is really nice bunting didn't score a goal last night i think he got two helpers i I think he's on a point, a game run for seven game points streak. Yeah.

But maybe 12 out of 12, 13 points out of those seven games. Like, dare I say it? He's on a bit of a heater. He is on a bit of a heater. He is. Yeah.

And more importantly, I like his two little looks off the wall. Like those are strong plays. And if he can add that, I mean, he takes the way I feel about him to another level when he's starting to make plays off the wall like that. You know, I wonder if there's some frustration on his part just because the goals aren't coming like they were last year like he scored 23 times last season he's got four through you know well over a quarter of the season now but no question this latest run is also the

best hockey we've seen from him yeah this season for sure nine points in his last seven games okay all assists all right yeah i mean he plays on a good line but he contributes right he does something that these other guys don't do and he's got a little bit of that uh junkyard dog feel to his game would you say he's got that dog in him because i believe kids say that sometimes now yeah i do say that yeah i love that i hated saying that i felt awful dog on a bone sure yeah at least that makes sense yeah so he's been good. Kampf, again, you know, really elevated his play. And so when you look at that bottom six,

they got something that we've been saying they desperately need. Zach Aston Reese had his moment. Pierre Engvall slashing people in the back of the head. They're getting some action from the bottom six. That's a big game for them. Okay, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Zach. Austin Reese. Love to ask Reese. You know, he's a guy that has the ability to make an impact in the game physically.

You know, and I think we've talked to him about doing that a little more consistently. You know, he's done that through his career. But the opportunity presented itself and changed the momentum of the game, I thought, got some energy in the building, you know, got their team a little bit upset and kind of raised the temperature of the game a little bit. And, you know, just really liked, obviously, how he responded after that. You know, huge power play goal and then look back from there.

Raised the temperature of the game a little bit i thought that acid reese's big hit stemmed from grunstrom running him before kind of got his elbow up no call and he seemed a little angry and i gotta tell you i like angry zach aston reese yeah here's the problem though and sheldon said it it's just how long can you wait between games and i think they he played in played in anaheim last year he played like what 20 games but pittsburgh was his longest stint and they got rid of him because they just felt like he would not play like that in big games. And they got rid of him. Now, can you get that type of look last night out of him a lot more consistently now? Because if he doesn't, the same thing is going to happen. They're just going to get tired of waiting for it here.

Yeah. Well, it comes back to the conversation we had yesterday and one we've had about this team in general is, can you manufacture that? I don't want to say fake it, but, you know, that edge, that energy, that something that Engvall hasn't had in the past, that the Leafs core doesn't have. Can't fake that hit in the neutral zone that he had. Well, sure. Okay.

And so maybe he's someone who can do that and has the option to do that. And again, people that I talked to in the phil or in the pittsburgh organization say he can do that he just doesn't want to you know all the time this also goes back to something you and i have talked about and you wrote about yourself and nick robertson is that this guy had you know how hard it is to get points in college he had 63 points in 38 games as a senior at northeastern university including 72 pims so he scored goals he's got points he had 43 points the point of the year before i think kipper it's that acceptance of being not the goal guy you are not the offensive player here are you willing to kip rios it up here yeah and accept your role and be physical

and be an energy guy and he hasn't done that in the past no he has not uh and unfortunately it won't happen anytime soon for nick robertson uh as you mentioned i wrote an article this week prior to last night's game about the challenges of nick robertson being a top scorer in junior and waiting for your opportunity to do it at the NHL level. He's had a couple of stints, different opportunities. The latest one coming off of Yonkrok's injury and was not feeling it prior to that. And as someone that once upon a time scored 60 plus goals like i get it i absolutely get it that you just hope and pray that your hands catch up to you at the pro level like

it did in in your last level in junior hockey and it just it just doesn't happen the one thing that i wanted to stress in the article prior to him getting hurt was that he has gotten stronger and we've seen signs of it, but it's not, he's not strong enough still. Yeah. Yeah. And last night, that's just a bigger fish eating a little fish. You know, that, that, you know, Sammy and I started talking about it before the show. That, that is like my one takeaway from that. Usually when a guy gets hurt, it's not because he's small or whatever it's that's

why last night though that that's a matter of just being the smaller guy not the stronger guy like i think he even initiated that contact and just gets out muscled and put into a position he doesn't want to be in and out goes the shoulder and now you look at this guy and the concern is he hasn't played any hockey he played in 2019 he played 46 games in the ohl since then he's barely played he played well you know six games in the nhl and 20 in the a the next year 28 games the year before after that like he hasn't played another year third year in a row here where he's not really gonna play much hockey if he's out for let's assume six weeks i mean i'm making that up but they said substantial no word yet on the injury uh but sheldon keep did say that uh he'll be out for an extended period time or uh this

isn't a short-term thing so now we're into january we don't we don't know where he's at, whether or not anything needs to be surgically fixed or not. We don't know whether or not there's a chance for him to return this season or maybe his season's over. I think outside of feeling for the kid. And I do. And we all do. They've lost an asset. and i crossed my mind i think again the good not not whether or not he jb before sorry to cut you off not whether or not he can put himself in a position of being a real contributor between now and the end of the year

but can he put himself in a position where if it's not happening here it could happen somewhere of being a real contributor between now and the end of the year, but can he put himself in a position where if it's not happening here, it could happen somewhere else? That seems like it's gone now. Yeah, the injury does take a substantial bite out of value. And again, we feel for the human being here, and it sucks for the Leafs, but got to consider it from Kyle Dubas and the Toronto Maple Leafs who are trying to win a Stanley Cup.

This was every trade proposal you heard was well you go if it's a big one it was always a first in robertson or something to that effect you know you're not sure if he's going to be available let alone effective and like if you look at the lineup now kind of leaves a hole here fellas he was there and i know he wasn't playing big minutes but he was kind of the stop gap between yarn croc being hurt kind of a guy to just put in there that had some skill had some ability now i think at morning skate today or at practice today if i wrote it down right yeah it's malgan playing there and they did call up uh joey anderson but you went from malgan not being able to get into the lineup for the leafs to now being vaulted into a role playing with your

two hottest players so I like I know it sucks for Robertson because it's such a huge opportunity but it definitely sucks for the Leafs too here because they're kind of they're kind of searching for something at that spot the unfortunate part right now is that you know you can call up a Joey Anderson and you can probably plug him in here and there, much like a Malgan, much like an Aston Reese, but they're limited. Yeah, he's a bottom six guy, Anderson. He has the only chance to take a highly skilled player and hopefully turn him into something legit. A contributor. I mean, a top six contributor.

A guy that can maybe have the ability to maybe start off looking like a 15-goal scorer, maybe move into a 30-goal scorer one day. And I'll say this. There was no chance that Joey Anderson's in the top six in playoffs. There's no chance Dennis Mulligan is in the top six during playoffs. There was a chance that they would have used Roberts in there if he if he was able to find it start shooting in the net a bit you know you knowing his upside so yes i agree sam this is now a situation where you're like

not only did you have doubts about your left side kipper all year you've been on that now you need a left winger i think you know you it's not like let's see if robertson can do it it's not an option now yeah you probably need to go get a left wing we haven't gotten an update on yarn croc right it was growing we didn't know how long that was going to be he i don't think keeps mentioned it uh reason no i i i have not heard if he's skating or not i'm sure we would have heard it yeah jamie ben was oh sorry jordy ben was skating today i saw that but i haven't heard anything about yarn croc but i thought he was filling him capably there too but yeah he was a guy that we said he can he can slot in there when

you need him now that this has happened to me that's the priority of finding something like i think the decor is pretty good right now well my god you need a malgan on the second line it's kind of crisis mode no but the decor is like i mean how good has this group looked? Two shutouts in a row. Sandin and Lilligren and Hall and Geo have all been so good. Let's get Sheldon Keefe on TJ Brody coming back last night. Yeah, I thought he was good. I'd have to watch it back, but he looked like a guy who hadn't played for quite a while.

He's also playing with a new partner. And I know I thought Simmons was excellent tonight. But, yeah, it's great to have him back and get him that game. Like, you know, in a perfect world today would have been a practice day for him. And then we get him ready for Saturday. But, you know, we have the injury and all of that. And he's cleared medically. So you probably want to get him in the game.

This was, in my mind at least, it was more of a practice for him in terms of getting in the reps and the feel because we just don't have the full practice, and tomorrow's going to amount to essentially a morning skate type of practice for us just to get ready for Calgary. So he needed to get this in today. Just a practice, eh? If you think things, you're like, oh, thanks.

What do you say? I mean, the progress continues between Sandin and Lilligren. He's right. You just got to get back in the lineup for Brody. Giordano still blocks everything and never is in the wrong spot. It's hard to score against the Toronto Maple Leafs right now. It is. It's truly stunning.

I sent a few feelers, feeler texts to my Leaf Nation brethren during the first period of that game, saying that I was purchasing a little bit of Connor Timmons stock. Not a ton. Not a ton, but a little bit. They want him to work. They want him to work. And I admit that 85% of this is that he's a tall, bearded man

that plays hockey with a right-handed stick and plays defense. I will admit there's a lot to that. But I thought he's looked okay, passable in the first couple games. Like a good depth guy for sure for the Leafs. Just the mere fact that he's a right-handed shot. He's not a small guy. Apparently makes everyone happy. Once once upon a time he was skilled enough to make people believe that he could go into the first or second round of an nhl draft

world juniors powerfully at four points to the world juniors one year it's good enough by the way my boy luke gazdik calls the world juniors the world jays and it's the most hockey thing i've ever heard the world jays the world jays it's such a hockey thing i love it very hockey bro culture i just love you guys world series jays next october that would be nice maybe not this offseason boys nothing happening different story for a different job what do we make of uh sammy your boy, Dersi? I... Like booed? He's got half the building in there for him.

How did they end up booing him? They're booing? I'm sick for my boy, Dersi. I can't imagine... Listen, was it A-Rod or Jeter or somebody said

that they don't boo nobody? But... God, that's got to sock and how much money did he drop so realistically on that like he there's no chance he bought all those tickets no 200 tickets you're looking at you know a couple hundred bucks to see what's the math on that i don't know yeah 40 grand i don't know something very expensive it's a lot of money so a lot of zeros yeah he paid let's say let's just just, let's stick with that number. Paid $40,000 to.

And he didn't. But anyway. Whatever he paid. Yeah. He paid a large amount of money. Yeah. To go into Scotiabank Arena in his hometown, get slashed in the back of the neck, and then get booed by his hometown crowd for mercilessly he was pretty good otherwise

that was vince carter-esque booze like that was a loud loud boo and i was just how many of so bad for him how many of them would have known he was from toronto or even an ex-leaf he played 21 minutes last night for him. I would think maybe 50 to 60%. I think a lot would know his history. That would add a little bit to the booze. And kudos to the producer

who just, the mom and dad shots were awesome. With her like cheering whenever he touched the puck and his dad was like, oh my god like i i was loving that she just looked like i'm just proud i really really enjoyed the crowd so should we discuss angle oh we have to do you think we're gonna do a show without talking about uh sheldon keith describing engvall so somebody after the game tiger we're gonna take text later in the show

oh yeah 590 we are gonna take text so we got got Doug McClain coming up in about 20 minutes. And always on Friday, every once in a while, we completely run out of guests. So we invite J.D. Bunkus onto the show. So you said that, not me. Somebody just texted and said, all that money to take 200 people to a Hall & Oates concert. Paul from Grimsby. It's a hell of a text. So I thought I'd get that in there.

That's pretty good. Really good. You make my dreams come true. Your dreams did not come true for Sean Darzy. Would you have preferred Sammy Engvall just dropping his gloves and going to try to punch your boy in the head? Dersie at center ice against the Leafs? That would have been.

There was earlier in that, was it that same shift where they were kind of sparring and getting after it a little bit? I think it was a different shift. It was close to the time where it happened. To me, I bet you Dersie would have loved to go. You know what though he also i bet you dersey knows angval who he is and what he's about he's an old guy he's been around like a great chance to like fight the six foot five guy who doesn't want to do this for sure so i think he probably was in the mind like i'm in toronto i'm not making

much of an impact on the game i spent a hundred thousand dollars on tickets let's get the center and uh engvall decided to slash him in the throat instead here let's just do our thoughts on the the engvall slash i uh here's what i think of it nothing and not suspendable no i didn't think so he you know jersey gets a stick up so engvall sticks already up he kind of gives him a chop he gets a penalty see you later yeah i know but there's i know. But there's some evidence out there that say that it's two games. No. No, I'm just telling you that there's others that have been suspended for that type of thing.

One of the things they look at is, well, I know history is one, and his history is not an aggressive one. And force, right? The force of the incident to me, you know, he pet Jersey on the head. It's hockey stick. It's not legal,

but it's suspendable. No, if you got a couple of games, I wouldn't be offended. Did we not see Kuznetsov get a game this year for something on the goal line? He got a game. It's probably in that. I think he can get away with one game but i don't expect

him playing against calgary tomorrow night i think that's fair i like even because that's i've got one for this one on burrows regardless of intent or maliciousness or whatever i don't think you can be having your stick up near somebody's head slashing you are responsible for controlling your stick and i'll hear that argument, you know. Do we have Sheldon talking about Engvall, or you got to read it? No, we got it. Okay, can we hear the description of Sheldon Keefe on his goon, Engvall? So much positivity about the game. I haven't really watched that one back.

You know, it's two guys competing and battling. We've all watched Pierre long enough to know that he doesn't play with any intent injuries. I think it's more just a situation of two guys battling and one guy was

squirmed away. Squirmed away? He was this close to saying he doesn't play with any intensity. It was so close to intensity. No, it was close to we've all watched this guy. He doesn't hit anybody. He doesn't play with any intensity.

He's 6'4 and he doesn't hit anybody. What are you going to suspend him for? Look at this Kuznetsov play, Kipper. Kuznetsov on Burroughsrows he stands up and mashes him in the face with his hockey stick like that's a chop in front of his face yeah angval was behind yeah so it's one game you're gonna give angval one all right we can live with that we do not agree yeah there's just no way that uh you can go around the league and suspend guys one or two

games and then you're in the heart of toronto where everybody watches and has played more times than any other one um and you're gonna let that slide yeah i i just think it's it actually works against the toronto maple leafs and their popularity and the attention that they get it works against them but at least every goal gets called off if engville right now if that happened with arizona yeah or carolina platen keller does that against anaheim like no injury one day come on no injury right oh there's a lot of reasons to think that you can get away with a fine or a warning particularly given his history although this is where it works against the leafs what's pierre gonna say in that uh meeting you know

it is what it is he either didn't like that a stick was higher yeah i mean it's not bad for handball. Looks good on the rep, but he got suspended once. Maybe people don't think you're a tough guy. And never forget that this is a league still that likes, like nobody likes sticks being swung at people's heads. No, not ideal. But he's protecting himself first. But they like that edge that comes around it and they want hits they want physicality they want uh confrontation they want some animosity

good words you know thesaurus over there no it's just me because i'm a writer that's right johnny journalist i'm a journalist now that's what they like yeah for sure without the and it is attempt to injure just because it's so rare with this leave scene one uh someone wrote to the three of us was it dr philosophical on twitter asked something like did should you read anything in it to that no one went to the defense of the guy who hit Robertson? And Sam's point on that was that you have to get over it with this team.

They don't get in these altercations. There isn't the animosity. They're not a team that does that sort of thing. I didn't think that that play would warrant it anyway, but that's just not a Leafs thing. I will say this to you, JB, on that. Yes, you're right. They're not a Leafs thing. I will say this to you, JB, on that. Yes, you're right. They're not a team like that.

And at times, like this stretch right now, in November and early in December, it can work for them. Are you convinced that you can lack that emotion and win every other night in the playoffs for two months to win a stanley cup i don't know because well yeah i i feel like yes or no no okay now we got something well but the the no is just because i have thought that when this team is interested and engaged,

they're as good as any team. They can get up. They can play with the best teams. They can beat Tampa three times. They can beat them in game one, five, nothing. I do think that not having that is a challenge to be overcome. But can you learn from the past lessons and recognize that and bring it consciously?

But I am one to believe that 82 games is a dress rehearsal, so when it does happen, you have something to fall back on. And we've had maybe in the last two or three years just a couple of sample sizes, which was Jason Spezza in Winnipeg, Austin Matthews against Rasmus Dahlien in Buffalo, but not a lot around those two things. And I just know human behavior. You're a behaviorologist.

I'm a behaviorologist now and if i know right now that i could go poke a bear without any uh you know consequences i have a better chance of convincing myself to do it than if i knew that there was a somebody else there that would but i mean in the eye but I think you have it backwards. I think that's in the regular season when you know a team is going to sleep on you and doesn't get up, it's easy to go do that. I feel like they're more likely to,

other teams are less likely to want to play that type of hockey in playoffs. Okay. I know it hasn't worked in the past. Let me ask you something. If Nick Robertson had more of a a team that would push back or make people a little nervous is there a chance maybe he's not looking at his season ending today no i don't think it's related yeah i do i do yeah i do there's

i do believe that there's a little bit of that and it it it's just it's a small thing right it's just it's just it's not overnight it's not a big thing to just look at it and go no if they had a big strong team he'd still would have got hurt but game after game after game after game when you just know that no one's going to come after you if you go after a few guys i i do believe that it does have a little bit of an effect. All right. I mean, just my thoughts. Yeah, hey, legit thoughts. Right.

That's fair. And we know how the Leafs are going to beat you. They will out-skill you. They will out- They will out-defend you is what they will do. They'll out-defend you. They'll steal a game with their goaltender they'll block shots i think that's gonna happen but those last three things

you said were not what i expected but it's still based on either high iq or skill skill skill skill skill to do it right there's a another equation in the playoffs where it just ramps up physically i do think yeah i i get that the uh the one guy we have uh added for robertson being out now joey anderson is going to come in get called up from the toronto marlies by all accounts this guy has like done everything conceivable in the american league to get a look uh why don't you guys is he had he's he's been up and down a little bit he played with the devil's toilet seat thing going how many times has he been up and down let's listen to sheldon keith and i'll give you your answer well you know he's a guy that he's come up here you know a couple of times uh you know over my time here

and i think has done well in a very short window of time. And then each time he goes down to the Marlies, he really is a true leader for them down there in all facets. And coaching staff really likes and appreciates his game. He's been productive offensively, hard-working guy. So I think it's just the timing was right, but the reality is we've kind of sped things up a little bit here given the injury situation.

But he's a guy we were looking at calling up here quite soon anyhow, regardless of injuries, because we feel like with Yarncroft's injury that there was an opportunity to get him a little more involved. So things move up a little bit there, but it's not necessarily just because of anything that happened last night. there was an opportunity to get him a little more involved. So things move up a little bit there, but, you know, it's not necessarily just because of anything that happened last night. He's a guy that we've been wanting to get involved here for a while now. I can't think of a better time to get called up.

Everybody's looking like a million bucks. I'm just going to slide in here and be part of that equation. Yeah, until you lose. And then everyone's like, what's changed? And everyone looks at you and they're like, the new guyey anderson has 11 goals in 21 ahl games this year he has played in 58 nhl games over the past three four seasons so you know he's been involved played quite a bit with the devils only six games with the leafs but but you need guys like that six foot 210 you know 10 boys joey anderson gonna come up this time and then just shut the door and be a regular National Hockey League?

You can go back through history of professional hockey and there's just always going to be that guy that's more or less a career minor leaguer but can come up on an occasion and fit in and hold a spot until healthier bodies come on board. I just like that if he's going to come up, he is not someone, and I've actually said this on the show a couple of times,

he's not a guy who has to come up and be in your top six and score and handle the puck and needs touches and needs points. Like he can be a non-point guy and help. He can forecheck and be in the right position he can be pontus holmberg but slightly more offensive so one last thing before we go how about holmberg by the way we don't even mention this guy he's just been a little on the team since yeah he just plays every night he's really good yeah like what what a surprise that's been well yeah but we liked him right yeah right away he looked like he did the right right things. And he hasn't tried to do too much.

No. No, no. Here's a guy that's like... Nice play on the goal last night. I think is locked in his spot. Wow. Yeah. What a change for him.

Were you saying something, Sam? Well, I thought we should maybe mention the Biebs being at the game last night. I wore my Tim Biebs hat in honor. He was... I can't even... I wouldn't even know what color that jacket was. If someone said, here's a million dollars, if you can tell me what color that was,

I'm like, I don't know. Pinkish orange, I don't know. Love the Biebs. Love the Biebs. And let me, I said this before the show too. I think, what's up, Biebs? I think he listens. Think about it.

He's a diehard Leafs guy, follows the team religiously, from Toronto. We're a Toronto Leafs show on Sportsnet. I think Biebs listens. Can you really watch the game through those sunglasses? I don't know. Really? Those are... Yes, you

can. Like, I know there's a cool element here. I get it. He is legitimately one of the most famous people on earth. So what are the glasses doing then? No, I just mean the gamifying the fame. He can be a star. He's allowed to wear those glasses. No, I'm not saying that he's not allowed to wear those glasses.

Yes. I'm just saying at some point, don't you want to lift them up just to find the puck? I'm going to come to the lighter tint on the heart lenses. I got a couple thoughts. They probably knew that he was going to be there, right? Yes. They did. Kipper, you played.

Because they left him tickets? No. Did he have to go to Will Call to pick him up? No, he would have texted Matthew before. Matthew would have texted him, whatever. They would have known he's coming. Kipper, you played in the most famous arena in sports, Madison Square Garden? Were you more engaged when there were celebrities there?

Were you more excited? Is this going to be a giving credit to the Beavs for the Leafs' success? No, I'm just saying there's no way they didn't play harder. I like to watch every once in a while and see who's in the stands for sure. I think the dumbest thing he's ever said is there's no way they didn't play harder because of the Beavs. They're excited the Beavs is there. That is the worst analysis I've ever heard. No. The Beavs is there. They're excited. They're all best buds with the Beavs, man. That matters.

They're excited he's there. Come on. He's one of the biggest superstars on earth. It matters. I don't know. It's not that it doesn't matter. Yeah, it's cool. It makes them cooler. Makes everybody cool. No one played 1% difference because

Justin Bieber sat in a seat near the rink. Agree to disagree, Barney. The only interesting thing you've brought up about this whole Bieber thing is he sat in the seats. Yeah, that's awesome. The man sat in the seats, a man of the people. That jacket alone should have bought a seat. How much do you think that jacket was? Over, under nine grand.

Goodwill jacket. Can I not go to Canadianadian tire and buy a sleeping bag for the same price no i think that's a cheap one i don't think that's a valenciaga but it's just nice it's just nice to see him in the stands i i mean i walked through scotch bank arena lobby with kipper and that was like going there with the Biebs. So I can only imagine what it's like with the actual Biebs. If he is listening, he should come out to my skate on Thursday mornings. More importantly, let's get him on the show. I want to see him on the ice. I want to talk to Biebs about the Leafs

on Real Kipper and Borm and then we'll have a skate and you can Chris Brown. You calling him out right now? Yeah. To come on the show? Yeah. Sam, get Biebs' number. Ask someone. Who do we talk to? We'll get the Biebs' number. Text him. Would the Biebs be interested in buying the Ottawa Senators? He has a better chance. How about sponsoring our show?

Doesn't he have... We'll get reborn and brought to you by the Beebs. Doesn't the Beebs have more money than Ryan Reynolds? Yeah. Oh, my God. For sure. Let's see. Bieber net worth.

Beebs got a... What's he got? Half a bill? $285 million, according to CelebrityNetWorth.com. Who has Reynolds at $150, so. You can't believe any of that crap. I can't believe that the Biebs and Ryan Reynolds combined can't buy the Ottawa Senators.

That blows my mind, in theory. In theory. According to CelebrityNetWorth, they can. Yes. Anyways. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. We'll find out if Doug McClcclain can buy the ottawa senators he's got an rv plays pickleball doesn't sound like the requirements for owning a pro sports team but okay okay we got doug mcclain on off the rails friday

on real kipper and born we'll be right back this is real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 the van right back at you i'm the kiprios justin born derrick brandale frank the tank sammy mckee and it's friday which means Doug McClain. All right. Mac, we're going to get into the Leafs. We're going to get into the Leafs, but I got to say, I'm watching your Columbus Blue Jackets, and I can't help it. Why?

Yes. You're the founder, man. Why? You're the guy that brought them to life. You're the one that brought the bee or the stinger or whatever it is, the mascot, to life. Hey, listen. I told you what son Clark said when he came home from his first day in school in grade five in Columbus.

He said, Dad, hockey's not going to work here. They hate hockey. They love the Buckeyes. They hate hockey. I said, Clark, don't say that to anybody else, whatever you do. I just, I feel for you because somehow, some way, they're so bad, it will come back to blaming you somehow well you know what i was thinking this morning i know the owner you know john p mcconnelly's the son of the guy that i went to work for jp john h was the owner when i was there jp is now. If I was, I knew when I gave Johnny Goudreau 9.75 times, what, seven years? And I knew, and I thought I might be in 31st place. I think I would have kept the 9.7 for myself.

I was just thinking, listening to Kipper talk about Stinger. Did you bring the cannon in? Is that where that came from, Doug? When I first went there, my business cards, and they had Stinger on my business card. President, GM, and Stinger on my business card. And that was going to be the logo on the front of the jersey. And I said, you guys aren't serious.

You're not really seriously thinking of putting that on the jersey so anyway we got that changed but i i uh nothing to do with i went to the mascot tryouts that was part of my job as president i went as uh i went to the mascot tryouts and the guy that i selected i knew things were going to go south in Columbus for me because I hired Billy the mascot. He was the University of Wisconsin mascot when I hired him. The day before our home opener, my assistant, Carrie, came in and said, we've got a problem, Doug.

And I said, what? He said, Billy the mascot, verge of a nervous breakdown, and he resigned today. We don't have a mascot for our home opener. And I thought, are you kidding me? So I phoned over to the chiller, which was one of the rinks we had. I said, is there anybody over there that can skate? So they told me this guy could skate.

So we put the mascot costume on him and years i think he he just uh i think he just may have stepped down after 20 years so i was involved in a lot of grassroots things but the cannon yeah i was responsible for the cannon too which well i knew i was getting fired and they they these jacket backers kept sending me notes. We need a cannon. We need a cannon, you know, because of the whole, you know, blue jackets, blue coats from the Civil War. So I knew I was getting fired, so I went down to the VP of marketing.

I said, look, why don't you buy a cannon? Get a cannon. And then I go in with Kipper for the All-Star game the next year, and the score was 14-13, and the cannon went off 27 times during that game. And giving everybody a headache. But anyway, it was a great thing, and I kind of like the cannon, to be quite honest. I really do, now that I'm gone.

Seems like if there was a cannon. Anyway. What's that? Anyway, I feel bad about where they are, but you know what? I look at where they are and it's so I look at this group and I can't. I know

they've had some really tough injuries. I get that. They've lost three or four really good blue liners, you know, Boquist and, you know, the kid that came from Chicago and obviously Wierenski and, you know, but I think about Jack Roslevic, who they gave a big deal to this summer. He's a Columbus kid and he's got one goal on most of Columbus kid, and he's got one goal. Most of the power plays, and he's got one goal. And Goudreau has done a hell of a job. 20 what's he got, 28 points or something?

I mean, he's really played hard, but it is really unfortunate what's going on there. They are a team that looks like they're not very accountable, and there's a lot of frustration in that dressing room. So what gives here? You know, Kekulainen in his 10th year, you know, he's got Goodbranson there on a four. I like Goodbranson as a kid, but four years at $4 million, and Roslevic over $4 million a year.

And I just don't know what gives here. I know the injuries are a big part of it. Their goal to Amers Likens has sort of disappeared off the face of the earth. I don't know what's happened to him. Now they're back to Corpus Allo. I just don't know what's going to give here. I mean, you're 22 franchise. I mean, I had an excuse.

I was there when they were new. Okay, we didn't want the whole breakdown of the organization the last 25 years. We just wanted to know that you weren't directly responsible for it. That's all. I'm not anymore. Okay.

You're right. They will find a way to blame me. I guarantee you that. Whatever can go wrong for Columbus, it's like opposites day here in Toronto. The Leafs can't do anything wrong. So, Matthew and Marner, the breakup, you know, it's flipping the lines a little bit.

Has that really turned this franchise around? I mean, I know Murray's been good and... Really good. ...up with a decent game. Really good. But what's blown me away, look at their top four defense. You're telling me that four has been able to carry them and they've done a good job. Like Giordano. I mean, God love them. I mean,

a veteran guy at 39, he's, he's been, he's been a horse for them at times, in my opinion, and hall has been good and the kids have been good. I mean, I'm blown away. Their defense has held up. I really am. I don't think it'll hold up at playoff time but at this point you know it's biding them time to get some people healthy they've done a good job and that forwards have done a much better job playing a team game full marks to them they've been good and murray like you said i watched him in pittsburgh

the other night i mean he was really. He's been good all along. So does this complicate things for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Like everyone talking about how good this team has been defensively and these guys have been, you know, Sandin and Lilligren look like they're a legitimate, useful NHL pair here. The whole talk was like they're going to need another D. Muzzin is out. They've got to go spend some of this money. Do they need to go find another defenseman,

given how good the D has been? And as you mentioned, you're skeptical it can hold up. Well, you know, the tough part is you're going to play Boston or Tampa, you know, probably in the first round, unless somebody else gets hot. I mean, that's a possibility, the way they're all bunched up there. That's going to be one horrific, physical, tough first round. And, yeah, they do.

They can't get carried away with, you know, I mean, look, it's great the kids have played well. It's great that Hall and Giordano and these guys have done a good job. But that does not look like a Stanley Cup blue line to me. So do they have to? I've got to believe they're going to try to add a blue liner or two, a deadline, depending on Muzz and Telson. It looks like he's out for the year.

I think they need help there. But right now, you can't say that. I mean, in fairness, they touched the the puck they touched the puck last night not much they weren't did i if they did if they did i missed it i saw you know a couple of turnovers here and there but i didn't see them you know i know uh analytics expert born, so you would know the data better than I would, but I didn't need data to look at puck possession last night. You know, Mac, like any general manager,

we can look back at Kyle Dubas' trades and say, this one was great or good, and this one was stunk, and this one was awful. But he just seems to have an eye now the last few years uh picking up uh you know uh limited value on certain contracts uh we saw bunting we've seen labushkin and now there's a defenseman, Connor Timmons, and health is an issue there. But it just seems like he finds ways to get the most out of certain guys and just the importance of that, especially when you're in a cap world

and especially when it's flat the last few years. Yeah, I agree. I think you do find bottom six because they can play at playoff time in this forward group.

You know, is Timmons and are they going to be good enough at playoff time when the whole game changes? Listen, are you in the sand? We got an issue with your phone. That's the problem.

Did you cut him off? Okay, we got to call you back. We're going to call you back. Where are you? Are you on the beach? I took my earpiece out. No, I just came up from the beach. I just took my earpiece out. Okay, now we're good to call you back. No, I... Where are you? Are you on the beach? I took my earpiece out. No, I just came up from the beach. I just took my earpiece out.

Okay, now we're good to go. All right, we're good. Like, seriously. Like, anyway. Modern technology. Earpieces. Yeah, so look, the problem is, yeah, they're good pickups.

Yeah, he deserves credit. The whole thing, and we talk about it all the time, it's going to come down to the playoffs in the first round. Right now they look like they can compete really well in the playoffs with the way they're playing right now. Is that going to carry over versus Boston, Tampa? Tampa aren't as good. They haven't done as a big hole there, but they're still good enough.

Is their goaltending going to be good enough at playoff time when it really has to be great? It looks today like it could be. Is their bottom six going to be good enough to compete at playoff time? There's still a bunch of questions there, but that's like lots of teams. That's like lots of teams. So right now, full marks to them. They've played really well, and they're playing with they're playing with confidence and Mariners just a treat.

You know, Matthews is going to be good. You know, Nylander is going to be good. Tavares has been good. Lots of got bunting. Like you said, it's been a solid day.

So, you know, I like them right now, but are you picking them in the first round? I'm a little hesitant to God. There's 50 plus games to go it seems like such a long ways away no we gotta talk playoffs we gotta talk playoffs well it really is the whole season is an assessment on is the team different can they be better come postseason one

thing that kipper and i have beat to death on this topic i think but it's an important topic is about the team's grittiness around the core and the willingness to get involved in pier angval last night tussles a little bit chops a guy in the head a little bit zach aston reese runs into someone and it's kind of nice to see it looks like it elevates the team a little bit can you fake it in those roles and i don't even mean that as a negative can you fake it enough to be effective you know and and just keep in mind too they lost nick robertson to a very heavy check which you know i mean for the most part looked fairly clean to be quite honest with you but should someone still maybe say something to someone well that's the question you can't

grit and you can't fake toughness you can when you're playing a team one off every two months but when you get into and they know your personnel inside out the the the heart and grit and determination is going to come to the forefront and have they developed that with the with the additions this summer i didn't i haven't liked their bottom six the last couple of years. I've said it before the playoffs. I didn't like it. I like it a little better right now, obviously, because of the way they're playing. It's tough sledding out there at playoff time.

It's life and death in the trenches at playoff time. And yeah, that's going to be the big test. That's going to be the big test that's going to be the big test you know that they're going to make Marner and they're going to make Matthews and these guys pay a price and the bottom six have got to give you energy and they can't hurt you they can't hurt you defensively and they got to give you some emotion from that bottom six so it'll be that's the big test and obviously goaltending is is still critical it's still critical right now i like it but i'm still a little nervous about their goaltending

and i shouldn't be with the way they played the last 20 games but i am did toronto show us enough and it could be hell did toronto show us enough in the last little while that they could still push Boston for a division or push anybody here for a president's trophy? That they can push for that right now. I mean, you know, Boston look real good. Tampa, to me, haven't been nearly as good. Obviously, the Rangers haven't been nearly as good. I suspect all those teams will, you know teams will pick it up in the second half. Florida, obviously, disappointing a lot of nights,

the way they've been playing. But Broski can't win a game. You've got to depend on Spencer Knight. Their blue line, to me, isn't deep enough in Florida. So, I mean, they've got to be considered right there. But you'd give the edge to Boston today. But, you know, other than Boston, who's really grabbing a hold of it? Them and the Leafs, in my opinion.

Well, we're waiting the end of a Mitch Marner streak that has been closely followed here in Toronto. And that's, you know, it's been unbelievable now. I think up to 21 games, if I'm not mistaken. What are your thoughts on the streak? Do you care about that sort of thing, Doug? It's been a big, big topic here. I mean, you have to care about it.

What I care about more than the streak is the way he's playing. And, you know, the streak is – the streak, yeah, it's great. It's a great thing to be able to do, and it'll be great for him in record books. But Marner cares about winning, and he's got a lot to prove at playoff time, this guy. A lot to prove. And he's capable a lot to prove at playoff time, this guy. A lot to prove. And he's capable of doing it. He gets a lot of attention at playoff time. And the big test will be, is he going to take the step he needs to take at playoff time?

No doubt he's capable of it. No doubt he's got lots of desire and will. That's the big test. Nobody's going to care about the 25, 21, 22, whatever he goes, if they lose in the first round. So that that's the shadow that hangs out. Look, when I was with Detroit, it was a similar thing. We had a really good teams.

We had really good teams that were Iserman and Federoff and, and on and on and on. And we just couldn't get over. We couldn't get over the hump. And a lot of it was our goaltending wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough. And, you know, all of a sudden, you know, they brought in, you know,

Osgood took a step, but they brought in Vernon, and things changed a bit, you know. And Stevie Y got some support, more support at the bottom part of the lineup that really helped him, and they got over the top. But, like, Steve Eisenman, this is hard to believe, guys. Steve Eisenman was in his 14th year in the NHL when he won his first Stanley Cup. That's hard to believe.

That's hard to believe. That's how hard it is as a superstar to fight through all the adversity you have to overcome at playoff time. It's hard to believe, isn't it? 14 years when he won his first cup. It, it does seem though,

between Tavares, Nylander, Matthews, and Marner, that, that these past failures, maybe the skin thickening, just,

it, it does lend towards that this, this, this season, they will be best prepared. Yeah, I think, I think their best,

if you looked at it today, yeah, you'd, you'd be hard pressed to not consider them a favorite going into the playoffs. And I mean, to get by, you know, to get out of their division, get by the first round, have an opportunity to move on.

You've really got to believe that. But we talked about that five, six years ago, when they were up 3-1 in Boston, wasn't it, in a series? I mean, it's so tough, and there's so much pressure on this Leafs team at playoff time. The hope that they've grown as a group to be able to overcome this. I mean, Matthews is a veteran now. Marner's a veteran.

Nylander's a veteran. Tavares, we know, is a veteran. They've got some good leadership there. So there's no reason, if they're this good, that they can't translate that at playoff time. There should be no reason. As long as their bottom six play like they should play and their goaltending plays like they should play.

I mean, we saw Carolina last year. We saw Carolina, a really good team last year, a really good team. A team looked to be built for the playoffs. And they lose their goaltender. They lose Freddie Anderson. And Ronta can't get it done for them. He couldn't get it done. We saw Pittsburgh, a pretty good team. They lose both their goalies. They couldn't get

out of the first round. I mean, those are the things that you have to deal with that are tough to overcome. So, it's going to be a real interesting test. But there's no doubt, right now, you'd say they're going in, you know, that I know like you said, next, there's a lot of games left, but today you would say you'd be nervous to play the Leafs. You know, every once in a while,

you got to take those earphones or earbuds or whatever you have, and you actually have to clean them. Well, I see it different because I was just come off the beach and I was listening to April Wine and it was as clear. It was as clear. You heard of April Wine? Yeah, once upon a time. You could imagine.

You know, every once in a while we'd have like this, you know, we'd be in the like playoffs or we'd be like at All- or something. And like five seconds to air. And it's like, Mac would scream. I can't hear anything out of my earpiece. It's broken. Bring me another one. And I'm like,

no, just clean the ear wax. Light the wick in that thing and burn down the wax. It's just like a candle. It's like having a candlestick in your ear. I think sports net set that all up so they'd have an excuse to get rid of me that I couldn't handle the technology. Well, if they did, it worked.

Hey, thanks for doing this. Sure did. Thanks, Matt. All right. Thanks, guys. Hey, Borny. I need a copy of your book, by the way. It's coming.

It's coming. I'm first. The test is which of the three are the best seller? Kipriosis, Bournes, or McLean that's coming out next year? We'll see. Ron McLean has a book coming out again? Take care, guys. See you, man. Thanks, Mac.

Kipper, while we were on the air, a crazy end to a soccer match in the World Cup we're talking the 100th minute yes the Netherlands had a free kick against Argentina and scored and scored on a cheeky little set piece and now we're going to overtime half an hour here that was the freak out

behind the glass oh yeah unbelievable moment there I was looking up and I was like wow And now we're going to overtime. Half an hour here. That was the freak out behind the glass. Oh, yeah. Unbelievable moment there. I was looking up and I was like, wow, nine minutes of extra time. Oh, it's the 99th minute. And watch that all develop. That was unbelievable. Listen, this is, I mean, we talk about hockey all the time.

We talk about the Leafs. It matters. But this is, the legacy is on the line here. You know, Leo Messi, was it his fifth World Cup or fourth World Cup? Oh's he hates him because he's a portuguese he has to hate him yeah but it's just it the drama is so good and tomorrow i love that it doesn't go right to kicks here like let's take it around a bit and tomorrow which is just i mean the morning game is morocco portugal whatever i mean that's not nearly as juicy as the afternoon matchup which is england france it's just wow high high drama at the world cup so i'm loving let me ask a dumb question yes please will they play the full 30 or is it sudden death in the

full 30 yeah and then they go to kicks if it's 215 halves 215 okay we'll just uh should be golden goal do i go to% should be golden goal. Do I go to break or we just sit back and watch the soccer game? We're just going to watch and talk about the soccer game. We'll now be. We'll go to break. Leo Messi with his legacy on the line. Oh, the dignity and poise.

We're going to bring JD Bunkus on after the break, which will test our legacy. The Bunk Show. Let's go. I mean, he can come in and uh i mean i can drive drive all our viewership away i hope not man no what's your what's your podcast again after leaf games let's plug leaf talk it's not like it's a 10 word show name kipper it's leafs talk yeah i know get it together sometimes you know what their talk's like. It's anything but Leafs. Okay, J.D.

Bunkus, after the break, and we're going to take some tweets. Yeah, tweets, texts. YouTube comments. Make sure you mention me in the YouTube. Perfect. Okay. Plenty more still on Real Kipper and Born. We'll be back this is real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 the van all right sammy where's your boy he's there

jd you're the type of guy that i think would be so busy on the weekends, you wouldn't even have time to come on our show. Yeah, busy with Leafs talk. Every Saturday night, I got to grind away. Grinding out here. What's it like having to carry Sammy McKee in that show? Buddy, this hasn't been just this show. It's been my whole life. Oh, my goodness.

It's been the major build up. And you know what the best part about listening to you guys now? What? That we're happy? No, just that I can hear you. Oh. Right? I mean, a couple of technical issues here and there.

Oh, I don't know what we're doing here. Camera. Lens cap on Kipper shut up I'm glad you guys have it straightened out because it's only taken us a year and a half to figure it out here that's right

we're doing our best happy world in Leaf Talk now right I mean you and Sammy, oh, my God. It just must be just a big love fest after games now. I can hear the misery in your voice. You're just so choked. You're like, I can't hammer these guys.

What am I going to say bad? Like, I can hear it. I can hear it. Yeah, I think it's pretty happy. It's doing okay, right? Like, we were talking about it yesterday. Outside of Robertson's injury and poor Sean Dursey getting booed like a war criminal in his own city, it's been a pretty fun little stretch here.

13 games in a row with a point. Who would have thought it? Yeah. It has been fun. You know, one of the things in talking with your boy Sammy is just the— Oh, are we not boys? Why is it just boys with Sammy? Like, have I got news that I'm not boys why why is it just boys with sammy like if i get news that i'm not boys with you guys you're out with kip you're now just a sam friend yeah

okay good to know all right good to know yeah sammy said the other day he just said you know boy it'd be nice to miss morgan riley a little more yeah like just just a little you're not buying into the fact that uh you know maybe maybe Morgan's not as needed as we first thought. Buddy, I've been on that train for quite some time. I had Morgan Riley in trade. Like, there's no trade machine for the NHL like there is in the NBA. ESPN.com has this site where you can just go and you can try to salary match and see if the trades line up

and if they work. And I've been working on Morgan Riley tradesiley trades as sam knows for quite some time yeah it's weird because when he signed that deal it felt like such a sweetheart move for them and clearly he offers more value than connor timmons right but it was interesting yesterday's not a fair game too because it was just such a cave-in. Every single player looked amazing. So it's hard to evaluate guys in that way. But yeah, just seeing those two guys together just felt fine.

They haven't missed him in the lineup. Sandin and Lilligren have clearly taken a step. And if you're just talking about ways that they could allocate money moving forward, look at what Sandin can do on the power play. Look what he's looked like over the stretch of play. If they had to get fully healthy right now, and you had to remove him from the lineup, okay, clearly Morgan Rielly's better than Rasmus Sandin,

but this was always the case when they were talking about resigning him, is what do you have within your organization to replace somebody? Is he $6 million on the cap better than rasmus sandin i think that's the question morgan riley's good i'm not gonna ever say that the guy's a bum i'm never gonna go that far i think that he's had a bit of a tough season so you're ready right now to uh tell rasmus say um you know we haven't won the cup since 1967 but you're the guy that's gonna quarterback four rounds to win a Stanley Cup. Are you crazy?

No, of course not. But that's not the argument that I'm making. The argument I'm making is that I think that there are different styles of defensemen that would suit this team better than Morgan Riley. Yeah, but it's over. It's over. You're not finding him. But you asked me this question.

You asked me the question of, hey, do you think that Morgan Riley might be a little overpaid, or do you think that maybe he doesn't fit this team? And I would say that looking forward for this team. Yeah, you're right. I did ask you. I just don't like your answer. Yeah, sorry. That's usually going to be the case.

Yeah, they're in an all-in season, so clearly they're going to load up as much talent as possible. That's not – yeah, you're not going to see a Morgan Raleigh trade. All they're going to be doing this season is addition, addition, addition. I just wonder what the future is going to look like. What do we think the salary cap is going to be next year? Up a million? Up a little bit more than that? Up four million.

Four million? You've seen that before? I have once, yeah. I wouldn't hang my hat on that one. Okay. A couple though. I thought that it my hat on that one. Okay. A couple, though. I thought that it was going to be one or two to start, and then we were going to start to see some fairly sizable jumps. That was the plan.

Bettman came out at some point and was overzealous, I think. Guess what, though? What? Bettman ain't the guy who's in debt half a billion dollars. It's the players. Yeah. That's tough. True. That's tough. True.

That is true. I just do wonder. Man, it's impossible not to have questions about the Leafs now and in the future. But if you're getting this picture now and it's informing your information for later and your salary cap doesn't go up a whole lot and Austin Matthews is going to absolutely break the bank in order to keep him, William Nylander looks like he's going to break the bank in order to keep him. TJ Brody's contract is going to come up.

You're going to have to make decisions on the two young guys because they're only on little bridge contracts. I do wonder what the future is going to look like for somebody that, when he signed that deal, felt like he was going to be a leaf for his entire career. And so now,

the things that are going positive, not to bring it back to this year solely, but looking at things that are good so far this year, are you a believer in the things that are making the team look good without Morgan Riley, which is the goaltending? Like Matt Murray looks like, I mean, the guy who won Stanley Cups. Ari, has he done enough so far to make you a believer? Today on the show, I talked about...

You guys remember when we learned about symbiotic relationships and it was the alligator with his mouth open and that little bird that cleans its teeth? And the alligator doesn't eat that bird because they're helping each other, right? The bird gets food and the alligator gets his teeth cleaned. I don't know if that's real, but

it might have been... I'm pretty sure it is. There's definitely fish that clean other fish. Let's use that example. No, this isn't off the rails. And a Tweety bird in this story. I'm going somewhere with this, alright? You guys are the judge and you're going, alright, wrap this up. I feel like that's

the blue line and the team defense with the goaltending right now. It's an awesome team to be the goalie of. You don't think that Jack Campbell's looking at this going, well, that would have been nice. Or Freddie Anderson's looking at this after his entire tenure with Leafs saying, that's what you guys are doing now? Thanks.

But also that those guys are playing better than the Jack Campbell's and the Freddie Anderson's did. Well, maybe not at their absolute peaks, but so far this tandem has just been an awesome one-two punch. But, yeah, they have to make a couple of good saves every single night, and they're not letting in stinkers. And so the question remains with Murray, can he stay healthy? Like, McKee and I feel the same way, and I'm sure the two of you do as well.

Whenever somebody goes barreling into Murray's net or he needs to extend himself a little bit too much to make a save, you start to wonder, oh my god, is this the time? Is this it? Is this now where he goes down with an injury? But they just look like two goalies that fit incredibly well with this team. They both seem mentally tough. They both have big time pedigree. And neither of them is letting in bad goals. So yeah, I think that I'm believing in it. I don't know what it would look like if they were playing behind old Leafs blue lines. But with this team, the fit looks perfect.

Barring a one-game suspension, Engvall scoring a power play goal was a different look for all of us. Are these signs that the bottom six now could be bigger contributors, take some heat off of your big four? No, I'm not in on that. No, you're not in on that. What did you guys think? What did you guys think?

Now you're derailing the whole vibe. No. You are. You can't win a Stanley Cup without four lines. No. Yeah. No, and guess what? I think that they're going to need to add more there,

and that's the interesting part is, you know, I don't know. You guys probably read 32 Thoughts, same as me, like last week or a week and a half ago when Elliot wrote about how the priority remains to be a defenseman, and there are some nights where you think about that and go, hey. You needed to read 32 thoughts to get that? Yeah. I mean, I always read it anyway.

I think that the priority being a defenseman over a third-line center, say, or a second-line winger is kind of interesting that that's where they're at philosophically because I look at this and go, huh, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe not when they're playing this way and they're getting this kind of

goaltending to me, they, they add whatever the best piece that they can possibly add to their team is. They're the team that's sitting there at the, at the draft that has everything, you know, a year where your team luckily has someone else's draft pick,

but you're a good team. And all of a sudden the San Antonio Spurs and the two thousands are picking like sixth and you just go, whatever, we're just taking best player available. That's, that's the position that I think that the least should be in. But ultimately the, if I was saying, Hey, what do you think the one thing today they need to add is I think that they need to add a little bit more in the bottom six. To me, they're still a little punchless and that the top guys are still

carrying the offense more. And I can't remember this but and i wonder how you guys feel about it i don't know where i was watching it it was some other it was another hockey podcast it was just a clip but it was about guys playing teams where they really can just load up against one line and how much easier that comes to defend come playoff time and clearly the leafs have two but that has been the issue in the past, is what happens when you're not getting any offense from your top guys. Can you get a little bit more from your bottom guys? And do you have any faith that in a playoff game,

that Alex Kerfoot, Pierre Engvall, I have faith in David Kampf. David Kampf will make something happen. But outside of him, I just, yeah, they need a little bit more there. And I'm not putting all the chips in on Matthew Nyes just yet. So we had the chit-chat about, you know, is the regular season success enough to make you, A, care about the regular season, which, Sam, now that they're good, does not care about the regular season.

I've talked with Kipper about, can Kyle Dubas have enough success with this team in the regular season to make you think he should get a contract extension? He currently does not have one, and this team in the regular season to make you think he should get a contract extension? He currently does not have one, and this team is obviously on a tear. Where are you on Dubas and deserving a new contract? You got to wait. You got to wait. Yeah, I thought the same thing as you, Pornt.

So two things can be true, right? Has he assembled an awesome team? Yep, he has. Has the goaltending worked out right now? It absolutely has. But we're 28 games into the season. I was talking about this with Myrtle earlier today. We had a stretch earlier this season where it was fire Keefe

and this team isn't good enough and they're not engaged enough and something's got to change and maybe they don't have this and maybe they don't have that. And now we're in an incredible stretch. And this Leafs team has proven year over year over year that they're a good regular season team. This has never been the issue. Hey, can you show up and win a bunch of games in a row

and look like one of the best five teams in the NHL? Can you set regular season records for points? Yeah, that's what I mean. We've seen this before. I think that this is just a little shocking because they're doing it in a different way. The goaltending has been so good when it was such a big question mark, and they turned it around so drastically

from what we saw over the first like month of the season first couple weeks of the season and so to me like if you have a plan and it's a well thought out plan you should generally stick with that and not be a prisoner of the moment and that's what a Kyle Dubas extension would look like to me today because ultimately this formula has been proven to do this in the regular season it still hasn't been proven to do this in the regular season. It still hasn't been proven to do it in the postseason. If you were asking me, like, hey, what would you rather have, a Kyle Dubas extension or a fire Kyle Dubas, like if he loses in a playoff series just randomly down the line,

I'd say extend him because he's clearly good at his job. I think that we need to see this thing play out. Everybody just needs to remain calm, see how this thing plays out, and stick to the plan that was there at the beginning of the season, which was, hey, let's all see where we land, and let's see where this sits, and let's see if there's a fatal flaw with this group, or if they can figure out a way to win when it matters. Because, yeah, I just, boy, if they, man, imagine they fold, right?

What happens if they just fold in the postseason again? Or one of these goaltenders, like, this is the one I want to know from you guys. If Matt Murray looks good all year, right, but then he gets hurt, how much blame do you put on Kyle Dubas for that? Because it's a decent roll of the dice. He's given you good production, but he was injury prone, so that was part of the risk. Like, where are you at if that happens?

That's a great question. Where are we on the thought of bringing Kasha in last year and then knowing that he had a soft melon that could be lost at any time and you did lose him. So is this any different from Kasha? It has to be because it's it's that much more of a position an important position yeah to me kasha was like we assume we're getting nothing if he can play and give us something amazing with murray pto or a million bucks like he was yeah like a million five so tell me who's out there

that's gonna say hey it was terrific for november and december too bad he got hurt in april you guys would have really had a chance i agree that he's much more on the hook for this, where it's like that was a position of essential need. And sure, people thought he was a good goalie, but it was a risk that you weren't going to have him, and then you didn't have him. So I do think that his injury health, you know, it's on Dubas a little bit. I get where you guys are coming from, though,

because it does seem so irrational to watch this team right now. Okay, do you guys think that they're the best team in hockey today? Bruins. I've liked New Jersey the most this year because I saw third and fourth liners that were hard to play against.

Jersey looks great. Would we agree as a group that they are one of the best five teams in hockey? Like, if you had to put money down tomorrow, and we were doing a draft, and we were saying, hey, we've all got to pick a team, we're all going to go in a row, all four of us, you, me, and actually, let's get Brandeo in the mix. Yeah, this was a conversation. J.D., we had this conversation before the season started.

We had them winning the Atlantic. We had them challenging for a president's trophy. We shouldn't be that surprised to say that they're a top five team. No, I'm not surprised. My point is that I totally understand the conversation about extending Dubas because in what world would you ever say, hey, you have one of the best five teams in the sport, and people would be going,

but we're not sure if we can keep around the guy who built that team. You know, it seems so strange. So I completely understand it. But this Leafs group is a special circumstance. And that's why I'm just saying, I don't know if the pressure is the same way. I don't know if they lose a series and how I'll feel about it. The way they lose the series or the way they win the series,

it just, that still matters to me. How they end up getting there, what ends up happening the series or the way they win the series, that still matters to me. How they end up getting there, what ends up happening the rest of this way, it's all going to matter to me. Even if it's in the first round? Yeah, dude. Okay, if they get in the first round and they have another coin toss series with the Tampa Bay Lightning and they lose the way that they did last year where it comes down to a game seven and it's a hard-fought battle,

I don't know if I'm going to say fire Dubas. I don't know if i'm gonna say fire dubas i don't know if it's just like okay get rid of this guy just because he couldn't beat the lightning i'd be saying run it back he's a free agent he might just leave that but that's an interesting part of it is that you have to roll that risk that maybe you go to the table with him and he goes yeah you know what some other organization gave me a godfather deal and now they want me and i want to pursue something different and i'm tired of this pressure and i'm tired of being hated and having my job security called in the question blah blah blah blah because i think that there is a reality where he could sign an extension here after some success and then things go to pot and then all of a sudden i'm sorry are we talking

february march i'm talking where's your No, I'm saying you cannot, absolutely patently cannot. Oh, okay. But is there any scenario where you could see him getting an extension before you find out what happens? Yeah, I could see that. But, again, that would require a deviation from the plan that Shanahan outlined at the beginning of the year, which would be a weird admission.

And I think that puts you in a pretty vulnerable spot if you're Brendan Shanahan. I have no – Kipper, this is a you question, man. Like I have no idea what the dynamics are of the board and what ownership actually thinks of these guys. But I would think that if Brendan Shanahan hands a contract to Kyle Dubas and then the Leafs lose in the playoffs in an embarrassing way they get shelled in five games or Matt Murray gets hurt and they have no goaltending or they decide that they don't get aggressive at a deadline like who knows what the scenario is here but where it does

not work out for the Leafs and then fans are apoplectic like I don't know how that doesn't make you vulnerable to a firing so to me the safest course of action for him would be to just patiently wait. And then trust that you're still the Toronto Maple Leafs and that when Kyle Dubas walks into free agency, people are going to say, sorry, what did they offer you? Yeah, we don't care. We'll match that. What else do you want?

This is MLSC. They kept Masai Ujiri. I think they can keep Kyle Dubas. One guy won a championship. Yeah, my point is just simply that Masai Ujiri. I think they can keep Kyle Dubas. One guy won a championship. Yeah, my point is just simply that Masai Ujiri was one of the most coveted guys in sports. He wasn't even just coveted in the NBA. He was coveted by the soccer world. And MLSC still found a way to make sure that he was paid properly and hid enough things on his checklist.

I have enough faith that there's enough money for Kyle Dubas to stay here and that the idea of, oh, well then he could leverage himself into leaving. I would go that, that would be more shot. That would be the most shocking result to me out of everything that you could outline. I agree. Once they make the decision that he's our guy, then money's no object. Right?

Exactly. Like, so this isn't a Theo Epstein situation where if he wins in Toronto... Then he doesn't want to go anywhere else. No, no, no. He's going to want to be here. He's from here. He's going to want to win here. He's already got all his Greyhounds here.

Then he has to go get all the Greyhounds on another team like us. You got to import the Greyhounds on a bus. Exactly. That's too much work. All right. Nice job today. I mean, I'm thinking this is a guy that should get his own show. Yeah.

Someday. That's how good you are right now. He's got two shows. You have two shows. Yeah, that's right. Subscribe to the JD Bunkers podcast and the Leafs talk. Make sure that you do those things. Leafs talk is crushing in the charts.

Bourne's back on next week. Kipper, when are you going to make your next appearance with now the newly fresh fixed audio? Don't you wait for a promise here? I'll make an appearance. I will. Let's do it. I can't wait, man. I can't wait to have you back on there. I owe you one. Just for the shots that

I give you. I owe you one. JD Bunkus. Later, fellas. Thanks, buddy. From the JD Bunkus podcast and Leaf Talk immediately following every leaf game on youtube and sportsnet now with our buddy sammy bunk's good dude i love that when do you have time to produce you're just this internet star right now i like you need a beaver jacket i would love a beaver jacket if whoever made that jacket would like to give me one, I would love to take it.

Bill Balenciaga's listening? You got your Timmy's Bieber hat. Yep, that's my only Biebs merch. I support the Biebs. I love the Biebs. What can I say? I don't really listen to his music in my headphones a whole lot, but I like that he's from the area. He likes to Leafs. He lives in the area. If he lives in the area, he's got to come out and skate

with a few of the alumni. More importantly, get in studio. I mean, get some names on that list so that, you know, what's the skate look like? Who's out there? Anyone of interest? The Big E. Eric Leibovitz. Cabriolet.

Okay, good start, I'd say. Mike Johnson comes out every once in a while. And who else? Is that a drop? Darcy Tucker. Who dominates? who's still the best the biggie has a backhand that my slap shot can't even compare to yeah it's sick what about cabriolet because i all i picture his game honestly if you gave that guy two or three months

i think he could play and not look out of place yeah he always just was such a amazing it's sick how smart he is still out there like make a bad pass please just do something i've said this several times in the show but playing with brian trache and dale howard chuck in their older years is oh my goodness oh sorry argentina just about kicked it in the soccer net but yes they were still exceptional in their older years i love it yeah all right where else are we gonna go uh you want any questions out there uh tweets uh youtube comments yeah we got some we got some stuff what do you got so this is from uh one of my favorite names on our YouTube chat that sometimes contributes from PoeBuddiesNerfect. Where is Dubas going?

Who else is hiring him? Arizona? You know what I was thinking is really fascinating that the Colorado thing didn't work out because Colorado ends up with Joe Sack kicking, winning a Stanley Cup. I know that there was some thought from Dubas, some disappointment that he couldn't go somewhere

where he could do creative things right in the spotlight of the toronto maple leafs you can't be like we're going to do things totally differently like you'll just get torched by people so i would not be surprised if he had an interest in being somewhere where he could be creative i don't know so all i'm saying is it doesn't have to be the Rangers, the Leafs. Oh, gosh. I just, you look at any team, there's 32 of them right now. And majority of them are locked into contracts that they can't even get out even if they wanted to.

True. So you want a different look, a different feel. The easiest thing right now is to go and replace money that you can replace. And that's a coach, a general manager, get a new voice, get a new attitude. I look down the league and I'm like, the picture that Kyle potentially could be looking at if he seeks employment somewhere else is not the same picture you're going to get in April, May, or June. Like, where is Ottawa with Pierre Dorian who promised that the rebuild was over two years ago? Is Ottawa closer to Susie Emery or farther?

I honestly don't know. I don't know Ontario. Is he back next year? Not if they're this bad the rest of the way by then new ownership will have come in they may want to make a splash what would be better what would be better for the ottawa senators if i'm a if i'm a new owner and i go take the toronto maple leaf guy next year and honestly dubas is perfect too because he's the type of guy. Think about that one for a second.

Who could find some value, you know, on some guys and just have them be a little bit better. I'm a new billionaire owner and you don't want to sign that guy. I'll put you in a bidding war for him. I may not get him. Clear caps. I think there's a small chance here, and I've thought this the whole time we're talking about it today,

that Dubas is upset by not having a contract and would take the opportunity to stick it to the Leafs for not signing him, not giving him what he thinks he's owed or deserves or whatever. So I don't know if it would be a straight financial bidding war, but if there's a chance that he resents not having a contract right now, it may not be outbidding MLSC. It may just be do it because he wants to do it. I look at the rocky ways in Philadelphia, Chuck Fletcher.

Could that job be open up next year? Good point. So Columbus seems like they haven't made the playoffs in a gazillion years. Yeah. That's the type of place to who you know they the opportunity for him to find value that's the idea of being the smart analytics guy isn't it that you find guys where else you want to go i just it's it's funny though does he really want to go rebuild a team in poiled on in nashville does he really want to go rebuild a team oh yeah this guy's young yeah and he's got energy out of the yin yang yeah and he'll go be fun oh yeah he would like the

challenge i i think for the most part he does he's he's got roots here he's now entrenched doesn't want to go anywhere he's got two young kids here. Yeah, I'm sure he'd prefer to stay. You don't know when push comes to shove and when is that point of no return. Leverage seems to swing by the week depending on how they're doing. So just quickly on the jacket that Bieber was wearing last night, the sports beard,

who is a good listener of the show, sent me the jacket. Oh, no. You can buy it. It's from a company called Soxy. It's $550 USD on sale from $967. So it's a steal now. Ooh.

There you go. It looked well-worn. What is that, an American company? Yeah, I've never heard of it before. So, yeah, there you go. Just Googling Soxie on a work computer feels a little dicey. Careful there, pal. Where's Kenny Holland and the Edmonton Oilers?

Oh. They missed the playoffs or get Edmonton Oilers? Oh. They missed the playoffs or get knocked down the first round. Yeah. Is he back for his fourth or fifth year? Fourth, maybe. I don't know. He signed a five-year deal, didn't he? I'm not sure how much.

Imagine they took the GM. Why on that if you're the Oilers? Imagine they took the GM, too. The Oilers. All right. Let's change that. You get the point, though. Yep.

This is from Mike Rodriguez on YouTube. What's a realistic extension for David Kampf? Yeah, I love that question. Because that's kind of where I was going. At 1.5, if he's your sixth most valuable guy, you can't say it's not in the threes. It's not less than that, is it? Engvall is the type of guy you can't say it's not in the threes it's not less than that is it engvall's the type of guy you get in the twos who would you say right now is kind of the most

uh one of the best i'm not even going to categorize third or fourth line but just bottom six guy in hockey yeah just off the top of your head the bot the best bottom six yeah like you loved garnett hathaway from washington i do like him a lot uh this is random i love um greenway on uh on minnesota is he playing the bottom six maybe he plays their top six i love that kid look at um boy coleman's and the gudros that were that have that pedigree of bottom six yep uh the other one who i really gourd you know who i really love too same team tan of brandon tan of oh yeah i think is one of the top Same team. Tanev. Brandon Tanev. Oh, yeah? I think is one of the top third slash fourth line players.

Isn't he a pain in the ass? I mean, in every capacity. Yes. That's what you love about him. Yeah, yeah. And he skates like the wind. And he kills penalties. And he just takes great head shots for training camp with goofy eyes.

So what's he make? He makes money. Didn't he get that long contract? Yes, he did. 3.5 for six years or something, I want to say. Is it 3.5? No, you're talking about someone else here, I think. No, Brendan Tanneff signed a six-year deal in Pittsburgh.

3.5. Yeah, it's deal in Pittsburgh. 3.5. Yeah, it's 3.5. 3.5. I don't know if. And there's only three years left. I don't know if Kemp's going to get 3.5, but Kemp will be up around three. Yeah. Three, two as a third, fourth line guy.

I think you give Kemp a three-year, $10 million deal. Can the Leafs afford that? If the cap goes up, but I'm not sure if that's where you want to allocate the extra money. It's not going up. Kerfoot going away. Maybe a million. Engvall going away. On the board, it's a million.

I'm prioritizing keeping it up. I can't see it going at this point now $4 or $5 million up. I thought Batman said it was going four up. He said it's a possibility. He got a little horned up. He got a little horned up. Yeah, it got me a little horned up he got a little horned up yeah it got me a little horned up i liked it for the players to allow it to go up three or four million means that

you do not bring down the debt like you anticipated and i don't know if that's a good idea for them or not you it's like that credit card man you gotta pay down. Don't push it back. Yeah, if you're a young player, that's a tough sell. There is a NHL.com article from October 18th of this year saying that it could increase by at least $4 million. Yeah. I'm not saying that it won't.

I'm not definitively saying that it won't. It could. But there are consequences to the players for doing that, and I'm not convinced that they're willing to do that right now. I just feel like every player wants more money on their next contract and the chance to raise the salary cap. You know who those guys are? The clueless ones that don't understand

how much is going to come off your paycheck because of it. They need to talk to Gavin. Stu Gavin. Gavin Wells. Did you text this in, Kipper? At Sam McKee, you think Luke Shen and Garnet Hathaway would be good fits for the Maple Leafs? And if so, how much would a trade for them cost? From Kickniprios.

Is that from you? No. You love Garnet Hathaway. We just mentioned him. I do. Yeah, I like him a lot. Yeah, for sure. There's a couple guys in that team now that they're headed the wrong direction.

Luke Shen's the most called in Vancouver. Everybody wants him. I don't know if you can turn it into a second or a third round pick. Yeah. But prior to that, it would have been a fourth or a fifth. Yeah. And maybe pick him up for free on waivers. That's changed.

Do you know how much money Garnett Hathaway makes? Three and a half? I don't even know. You're right, Barney. One five, and this is the last year of the contract. Tempting expiring deal if the Capitals are no good. I thought he'd be up higher. What's he play, about 12 minutes a night?

I'll look that up for you right now. I got a text from someone i'll try to get the name it's basically saying what's up with chicken chickens come back he's shooting it in the net for the coyotes are we back on chicken watch yeah we've always been on that but it's still who's gonna bite on two first rounders and a prospect. He plays around 13, 11. Yeah, that's solid. That's a lot. You know, the other thing too is if you look at the Leafs last night, part of their dominance is just the sharing of minutes

outside of Nick Robertson getting hurt. I bet you there wasn't a guy under 11 minutes last night yeah 11 and a half minutes which is a bolt so well for the look and feel that you want going into the back half of the season or a first round yeah i'm uh i am pulling that up and i can tell you we are now in penalties by the way between argentina and holland no one played less than 13 minutes except for engvall who was penalized had a major and what did he have 10 okay so he would have been 12 no you right he would have been over 12 yeah 13 i have to say i'm very interested in the garnet hathaway thing now that i look at it well you need washington to admit they're done

and i don't think they want to do that well closer to the deadline wow would he give the leafs a different look what do you ever how about tom wilson tom wilson's uh skating is he available it's going to be interesting to see where washington goes in the next little while here if tom wilson were available 31 other teams in the league would be interest yeah but he wouldn't be the most popular player in the history of other any other franchise like he would be if he was a Toronto Maple Leafs yeah and um how quickly would Ovechkin be in somebody's office in Washington if they moved Tom Wilson two seconds after he got the notification probably yeah be kicking down the door can't see Ovi making that trade i would agree with that

ov making that trade it's like lebron trading for people by the way leno messi kicked in the net on his penalty in a cheeky little half pacer and they're up uh they're up one in the penalties now there you go uh what else i'm looking around here oh this is no hold on this is a fun one who would you guys rather play in the first round the bruins or the light well thank you very much because that's exactly where i was going exactly where i also want to play in the first round, the Bruins or the Lightning? Well, thank you very much, because that's exactly where I was going. There we go. Exactly where I was going. I also want to get in the question

that we talked about in our group chat about the distance putt and money. Okay. So we heard from Doug McClain talking about Tampa not looking and feeling, and that's another part of the equation because Sammy was all horned up over Detroit now facing the Leafs at the beginning of the week.

I think it was 5-1. And then by the end of the week, it's like, yeah, it ain't going to be Toronto. And they've been relegated to the American League. It ain't Toronto and Detroit to start the first round. Please. So we are back to that horrible feeling that you could be one of the top teams

and face another top team in the first round. I think you got to catch the Bruins. You know, they're three points back with three games in hand. So call the Bruins seven points up. It's December. Can you make up seven points on the Boston Bruins by year's end? And you get the feeling that if you could do that, the bottom. It's not very good.

It wouldn't be nearly. You get Bruins, Tampa can play each other, and you're going to get a wild card that's like... You're thinking in the... I mean, but then you're maybe playing Pittsburgh or... Well, sure, you're not always going to get... No one's awful. You're not playing the Sens in the first place.

The more I watch NHL hockey, the more I really start to believe that teams like Tampa, and I know Colorado's got like a dozen guys hurt yeah but these teams have never devalued 82 games yeah i think it's a problem for the league of the nhl just make sure you're in and if the boys don't have it like i don't i don't know what to make a tampa aren't you nervous to completely write them off 100 yes they're so good whoa who's writing them off yeah i would like to i know i would like to say on behalf of leafs nation

no one in the world is writing off but thank you very much no i think there's a few people there okay time's over no right it's it's just your time is up it's interesting because you watch them against detroit and you watch that game sammy and they were like ho hum but then they had 30 shots in the third period right they have the ability to flip on the switch listen which scary the leafs have to go against two things they have to go against the other team and they have to go against the fact that the other team doesn't want to be the first team to lose to this air in the first round and their own brain and their history and the gods the first round is going to be like their cup i don't even want to

see their celebration and when they get past the first shot it's gonna be embarrassing i can guarantee it so true it's like rain it in a little bit but i'm not i'm not writing off the tampa bay lightning they're all right so full So the question in our group chat, do we still have, do I have to pull this up here? Do you remember what it is? Where did you come up with this? I didn't. It was like a graphic Sam sent.

Do you have it out in front of you? I can get it quickly. Yeah, I am currently doing the same thing you're doing. But okay, two, would you rather have to make, that's all, I don't want the exact numbers. You're going to make me really think on Friday for two minutes to go left in the show and the week. Which one would you choose to take? A three-footer for 50K?

Yeah. A five-footer for 100K? A 10-footer for 250? A 20-footer for a million? Or a 50-footer for five million? I don't get half a million? They skipped half a million? You're right to one million for a 20 footer.

You also doubled your distance. 20 footer, one million. Three footer, 50K. Yeah, not. Five footer, 100K. No, 50 is not doing it. 50K is not the answer. You're in a different bracket than I am.

I am taking the five footer for 100K. I think the best one is the 10 footer. For 250? Because I couldn't live with myself if I missed a three footer or a five footer for 100k mine i think the best one is the 10 footer because 50 because i couldn't live with myself i missed a three footer or a four or ten or a five footer for that amount of money you got to go for the one where it's like okay well it was a it wasn't a gimme but i had a chance the number one is the 20 footer for a million yeah that's too far 20 footer yeah i make your role knows in a row i make one out of 40 20-footers. Me to the screen, is that 20 feet? No, that's 10.

No, it's, yeah, 13. 14? I'm hammering it. I'm blowing past the hole. I'm like heavy hands at past 10 feet. So before our show ends, we're going to watch Argentina kick one in the net to win their game here. To go to the semis. To go to the semis.

Here it is. It is. Oh, yes. Oh, he pulls it. Oh, my God. No goal. Devastation. Oh, my God.

All right. Thanks, everybody. We got to say goodbye, guys. Oh, okay. We got to say goodbye. Our thanks to Doug McClain, JD Bunkus from a

great show called Leaf Talk. You can watch it and listen to it after Saturday night. Right, Sammy? Nailed it. Everybody, thanks for a great week. Always a pleasure to come into your homes, your office, your car. Thanks to everyone

for all the kind words on yesterday, too. Ever you are. Much love. Much love from us to you. Yeah, and YouTube. Give us a rating and review, a thumbs up on our YouTube channel. We are back on Monday. Be safe, everybody.