Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Grab a Pair of Weekend Wins

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee get into the two wins that the Leafs grabbed last Friday and Saturday, over the Wild and Penguins on the road, and how the offence is being driven by Mitch Marner. They bring on Leafs colour analyst Jim Ralph to discuss what he saw from Marner, the offence, and the much-discussed, oft-injured core of defencemen (43:12). With the team still on the road to begin the week, they bring on four-time Stanley Cup Champion Kris Draper to preview the Original Six matchup down in Detroit (1:03:50). The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

hope everybody had a great weekend man it was jam-packed no question that the leafs are on a heater where is uh our buddy jack hughes to uh to talk about what the leafs are doing lately nick kiprios der, Derek Brandeo, Frank the Tank, Sammy McKee, and on location, Justin Bourne. On location at my desk at home like a bum. This is like pandemic vibes, Kipper. Everything's good, though? We're all good.

We're all good. My son's got the sniffles. Oh, there you go. Well, looking after family and still getting the job done, JB. That's what makes you a true pro. Yeah, buddy. Before we get into the Leafs and so much to get into, downing the Penguins 4-1 Saturday night

and off to a nice little roll here in the month of November, we have to, have to revisit what life was like for our very own sam mckee on the weekend particularly sunday around noon when canada scored their first world cup goal in men's history. Yeah. So it was probably about, what, 11-01 when that went in? And then it wasn't as enjoyable for the next 90 minutes after that. But I can tell you that that moment that happened there is one of my favorite sporting memories I'll ever have. I can't tell you the elation, the feeling I had when that hit the old net there.

It was a pretty electric moment for a country. We can save the questions and comments about the rest of the game. We can save that for Herdman. I'm not really going to weigh in on that a whole lot. No, I'm weighing in, bud. I don't care. And I'm dragging you right into it. Yeah.

Right into it. You don't get to dodge that on this show. I'm sorry. sorry yeah let me have it no no no not yet um i just want to hear jb because you know sammy's the the soccer expert i mean i did play it growing up but uh as far as him knowing uh the game today and and the players he's he's our go-to guy but just uh you know from your perspective as a fan uh jb your thoughts on sunday yeah we put together a big shindig my group rented room uh one of my best friends is a croatian dude johnny bravo what's up you know he had a bunch of his croatian buddies over and then we had another i

don't know 40 canadians in there and i honestly it was like shock when the goal went in when canada scored at the two minute mark it was know, of course the place erupted, but it was like, oh my God, like, are we going to do this? Is this real? And then, yeah, just like the air slowly coming out of the balloon, culminating in the epiphany in about the 50, 60-minute mark. They're like, oh, they're just not in our league. That's a better sign.

But there was that moment off the goal, which was spectacular, that you said to yourselves, oh my God, this could be a kind of USA, Soviet Union, 1980s kind of feel. Was there just a touch of that? A little bit? Like, oh my gosh, we watched them go toe-to-toe with belgium only to fall short by a goal but this could be something special right now one nothing come on i let myself believe for max five minutes

because listen you guys i'm not a soccer expert but i watch a lot of soccer in my life and it's pretty easy to tell after that goal went in what happened like it was just pretty clear that was a little wake-up call for coasia and they like i i feel badly for how pissed off i was quite honestly during that game like i was steaming mad uh when we went down to one i was upset about all the different things and then it kind of had to catch myself a little bit because it's like expectations. This is our first time ever in the World Cup. We're a historical laughingstock when it comes to soccer.

It's our first time ever there. And we're playing legitimately one of the better sort of European sides. There are tons of pedigree. They're gritty. They're good. Our coach told them to F off. Like there's a lot of stuff that went into that game that I was kind of catching myself feeling like, why did I expect them to win this game?

Just the fact that we got a goal against them is incredible. So that's kind of where I'm at, boys. I'm feeling a little stupid forever believing, to be honest with you. Oh, I don't like that. Well, it's true. I mean, it's like, oh, yeah, Canada's going to play soccer against Croatia and win? What are we talking about? You just watched them do it with Belgium.

Nah, yeah. Did they win? No, they lost. No, but you watched them hang, so you weren't stupid for thinking they could hang with a lower-ranked team. But you got to Sammy's point. Like, where were they two years ago?

Where was the program two years ago, and where is it now? For sure that context is relevant. For sure. All right. Okay. We're going to get into the Leafs. I promise everybody.

I want to weigh in on John Herdman's comments and how it was played out and where we are today because it's not a soccer thing for me. It's just a sports thing for me. In the grand scheme of things, where are you? Because there's a lot of people out there that say, come on. Those words matter. Like, Croatia needed motivation to play in a game that it made an absolute difference or not.

Let's go to you, JB, first. Did it make a difference or not? I'll play the straw man you're looking for here. No, I don't think it did make any difference at all. I believe that that Croatian team still means everything to them. It's the World Cup. straw man you're looking for here no i don't think it did make any difference at all i i i believe that that croatian team this still means everything to them it's the world cup they lost in the final the the previous world cup that's as motivated aside didn't they lose their first game or they drew or whatever like they tied with morocco like they needed that match against canada

you cannot tell me they were going to leave anything in the tank that somehow john herdman dug up. I agree wholeheartedly with Barney. Listen, I want to blame Herdman. I want to be like, listen, if Herdman was like, I love Croatia. Croatia's great. And they went out there with their midfield against Luka Modric and Mateo Kovacic are two of the best midfielders in the world. It ain't going to matter what he said pre-match.

They were going to get their barn doors blown off regardless of what happened. So I know it doesn't look good, and he's taken an absolute beating by Croatia's fan and their media and everything. I get it. But it made absolutely no difference. Canada just, they're just not close. It's just not a comparable thing. I wholeheartedly believe in the billboard thing.

Bulletin board, yeah. I do, for sure. Yeah, I do for sure. Yeah. Bulletin board stuff. So you thought, so you think it made a difference? It's not that it made a difference. You know,

I have to go back to Mark Massey's guarantee in 94 and then what that did to us. Besides maybe just reaffirming that his belief in us is there. As a team, we discussed on, like, what does this do to Mark Messier if we lose? Like, that conversation happened amongst us. And I'm not, see, when people go out of their comfort zone, whether it's Mark Messier or or herdman in that moment there there's something on the line there for him and we know where it went with herdman we do now but up until then someone was asking me uh before the game was that a mistake or not

saying that and i said i cannot answer that until after the game it's just it's it's guesswork and whether or not it's something that uh is going to be a positive or negative and I don't know I cannot answer whether or not it's motivation for anybody on the other side or not. Only they truly know. But I can tell you what I can answer. It changes the energy. 100% changes the energy. And I'm a big energy guy. I'm a body language guy.

And the energy changed from the moment he put that out publicly so yeah so if if in fact they find out or the canada finds a way to win and it's a historic win herdman goes to another level based on that and it is nothing but like like stories written about it movies written about it. Movie's written about it. That's him just putting his big brass ones on the chopping block. And it's either a huge win for him or it comes back and bites him in the ass. But you threw the energy out there and the energy changed the moment it went public. Yeah. Do you agree with that? Yeah.

So I got two thoughts on that, Kipper. One is I like the point about the energy changing because coaches constantly jockey for the scrappy underdog vibe, right? Which is all Canada had. We are the scrappy underdog, the feel good story. And, you know, as hard as coaches try to get it, I think you give it away by having a public statement that goes directly at the other team. I think there was no pressure on them prior to that. So, yeah, maybe it doesn't affect Croatia, but maybe it affects Canada to some extent.

I'll also say there needs to be a clear differentiation between what Herdman didn't say and what Masai Ujiri said when he went out and said F Brooklyn. Or, you know, what he did is so different because, you know, they asked him what he said, Herdman, what he said to his team. And he said, I want to go right at him. I want to be fearless. I said, you know, F them. We're going to go get, we're going to go get them. But he didn't make the statement to Croatia.

He shared what he said to his team. So it's not to me, it's not as bold a thing as Masai Ujiri's F Brooklyn. That's fair. Listen, I'm just, the one thing I'll say about this, because I said that I'm not that surprised by the result of been talking about how hard a group this was for six months and everybody kind of made fun of me for saying how hard a group it was going to be.

Anyways, that aside, it just sucks that we're the second team out next to the crappy host. It sucks that we don't get a third game to care about. Our third game doesn't matter. So, you know, it's still enjoyable to watch them. Yeah, I get it, what you're coming from. But come on, you have a chance to win your first World Cup game. It matters.

It matters. It absolutely matters. And I'll be watching, just like everybody else. But you'd really love it to have a little bit of stakes. You just lose the party. You just lose the excuse to party and have a... Yeah, right. But you're right.

It would have been nice to draw Morocco first and maybe be able to get a draw or something. And I know it's no given. Morocco's a team, too. They're good. They beat Belgium like we should have. That's what'll haunt me forever, boys. It all started with Davies' miss.

Us sitting in the newsroom there on Thursday. Was it Thursday or Wednesday? Wednesday. We. Us sitting in the newsroom there on Thursday. Was it Thursday or Wednesday? Wednesday. We were all sitting in the newsroom there watching Davies. And if he tucks that, I firmly believe in my heart of hearts they win that game and we're talking about a completely different thing. So that'll be the great what if to me. Yesterday we didn't belong on the pitch with those boys.

All right. Enough real Kipper and Bourne on soccer. But that's on sports, Kipper. We're justifying. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. And we can get right into the Leafs and what's going on there. Certainly watching Mitch Marner extend his point streak to 16 games,

tied for the third longest in Maple Leaf history, is now getting rather interesting as they face off Detroit tonight. We got a terrific show. Glad everybody's on board on this Monday. Wherever you are, wherever you're listening, first and foremost, I got to be honest here. Every once in a while, I look out of the corner of my eye, I see Justin, there's just a picture of you on YouTube.

And, you know, I'm thinking to myself, man, like one day the technology will be there where we can actually show you on video and hear you at the same time. From two different locations? I don't think we're there yet, technology-wise. We're not quite there yet, but... For those of you watching on YouTube,

stay patient. By the end of the show, we will have a sketch artist of JB in his basement doing the show. It's just in my undies down here. All right. We've got Jim Ralph coming up in about, what, 35 minutes. Also, Chris Draper, former NHL or four-time Stanley Cup champion.

The grind line. Yeah, I remember those days. He's going to come by and talk and help us tee up a great original six matchup against Detroit. But revisiting the weekend, guys. Maybe a couple of thoughts before we go to Sheldon Keefe and get his thoughts on the latest heater the Leafs are on. Sure, I'll give you my thought. One thing that is confirmed to me is that this team, going into the season, in the early season, we thought that they need to be interested and motivated when they think it's going to

be easy. They kind of roll over. I think this has been inspirational for them, having so many D out. I've never seen the team look more organized, more in their position, more difficult to get through than when they've had no defensemen. I just think they look like one of the best coach teams. You can't say that all season long, but since their D have been out, they look like the full buy-in remarkable play.

I think from, from as a team unit. Sammy, the Leafs are nine, one1-3 in the month of November. They've picked up a point in eight straight games. They haven't lost, I think, regulation since Pittsburgh on the 11th. No matter what happens, listen to me very carefully here, okay? No matter what happens in April or in May, you will always have a November. Oh, you're such a hater. You're such a hater, Kiffer.

A hater? Yeah. That's a strong word, man. You're making fun of the whole previous seasons and the whole. Stop it. Stop it. Listen. Did they not have a great november last year too

they had a scorching hot and nobody cares i get your point no no no no i'm just teasing them and just teasing them a little bit i am giving them full credit jb i'm on board with you man uh the attention to detail uh the commitment to take the middle of the ice away blocking shots it's it's really working right now sammy i'm just as a big picture thing i'm really happy they don't suck because we're happy they don't suck two hours of this i really thought there was a moment there where they came out of that Anaheim game, and I thought they sucked. I really was convinced that they were no good.

They couldn't do anything with the bottom six. They had no identity. They were coughing up the puck. They were giving it away. They were genuinely an awful team to watch play hockey. I never enjoyed it. That's such a good point. And then they flipped the switch, and I still don't

think they're playing the most enjoyable brand of hockey most nights it's a lot of defensive stuff you see sometimes how they back off and just lie right across the red line or top of the blue line and it's like red rover red rover we call you over and it was crazy like and they scored four even strength goals on saturday right was it all all four of them were even strength? I mean, that's so rare for them this year. Like, they don't score a lot. But just as a general statement, I'm thrilled they don't suck. I know that's not the most breaking thing, but it really did feel like for a while there that they were going to.

Well, I didn't know that you were going to be talking or going in on that point, Sammy. But one of the things that I think has made a difference is they're scoring first. So it opens the other team up. It makes the other team have to play. I don't think they look like offensive dynamos, but it's different when they score first. That's all. All right.

Let's go to Sheldon Keefe for our first Kippers Clipper here on the recipe on the run in November. Yeah, it's huge. I mean, obviously you don't quite expect to score in the first shift, but we talked about, you know, how the recipe for us here of late has been to get off to good starts and control the game and, you know, sort of the way the game went last time we were in here. And that's the way it's been really on this trip. So that's set us up for success for sure.

You don't want to talk about it too much in case it doesn't go your way. It's not the end of the world, but it certainly sets you up for success, especially on the road. Good starts. And if we go from the net on out, the last bad goal out of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I don't know. Do we go back to Carolina?

No, we go back to the game we went to. Shogren. The one where he came out of the net. Yeah, that's the one we go back to. Okay. We're talking about two bad goals in half a dozen games. Yeah.

It helps. That guy's been better than his save percentage, too. Like, he's given him the saves he's got to make. You know, let's be honest, too. They have been lucky over this stretch to get three goals called back in New Jersey. And while we all agree they were the right calls, you get three goals called back. It doesn't always happen properly. You know, Pittsburgh has the one that's sitting behind Shulgren that's live.

They score on. It gets waved off. They're getting a couple of breaks, too. You need that help. As far as the blue line is concerned, this is where we thought that things were going to fall apart. And lo and behold, man, it's it's just business as usual back there. All of a sudden, it's the adventures are gone or they've been cleaned up particularly when you talk about uh holland well let's just end it right there

justin hall i mean everybody wanted this guy out of town everybody was talking about uh uh he can't play in the nhl and now he's logging big minutes. And I'm not saying that he was where we thought he was maybe a few years ago shutting down Connor McDavid, but all of a sudden, big right-handed shot guy playing 20-plus minutes is looking okay. Yeah, I'll use the note that Jonas Siegel wrote in his piece today, which is that Giordano and Hall have lined up for 26 draws in the defensive zone together in the last three games. Sandinia and Lilligren are the next up at 10. So these guys are starting the D zone over and over and over. They've played against Crosby as a matchup, Kaprizov as a matchup. The pair

has not been scored against once. They're outscoring the opposition 2-0, outshooting them by 10. Like, that pair has been absolutely dominant, which is strange. Oh, sorry. I was just going to say. Yeah, go ahead. We're talking about how good the depleted D-Core looks right now.

And does it concern either of you guys that the guy that they gave $7.5 million to for however long, he's out of the lineup, and they kind of look better defensively without him that that thought crossed your mind no not once okay i just assume that he went when he comes back there that much better jb there's like i will just say kipper that it has crossed my mind to consider like is that a difference like that riley whatever i and i'm with you i don't think it's the right answer, no. So outside of Sandin, would it have affected anybody else? Because Sandin, we know, has elevated

his minutes and seems to have settled down. Looks way more confident to me. Way more confident and avoiding the big blunders. Yeah. But outside of that, who should feel like they've been affected with no Morgan Riley there? I guess like the,

the main four is just like Lilligren getting more minutes, Sandin more minutes. Otherwise you're, you just have a couple of guys in who don't play like Hallowell is in and Mete as well. So those guys would be affected by it, but yeah, they don't play a ton.

Okay. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Hall's elevated role with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, like I was saying, everybody is elevated here. And, I mean, you know, Halsey at different times, you know, hasn't played at his best throughout this season. But Justin Hall has played a lot of really tough minutes for us over his time in the NHL. So it's not necessarily new for him.

But you have to go out and do the job, and he has. So it's not necessarily new for him, but you have to go and do the job and he has. So that's been really great to see. Man, it's almost as if they couldn't give him away a month ago or two months ago. Couldn't give him away. We had the conversations about how they had nobody to give him a rest.

Remember how we were talking like, this guy is desperate for a rest. He needs a night off he needs to have a view from the press box look down on it for a change and he's pulled himself out of it but i don't this is anecdotal i don't know if either you guys remember but i feel like this has happened to him a couple times in the past with the leafs where he'll go way down and they'll everyone will be turning him into a whipping boy and then he'll kind of pull himself out of it and it feels like it's happened again like i i don't feel like this is the first time it's happened with hall

no and he's also the poster child for the numbers people love him the eye test people hate him he's like one of the rare ones that there's a huge divide on it's the i think everyone's right he has he can look terrible he can be really reliable in a good role you know as much as we talk about the consistency or inconsistency of the big four and all that, he's another guy who might fall under that same umbrella. You know, when he's going, he's going, but he ain't always going.

Yeah, and, you know, to that point, I think it's almost as if when the Leafs feel like they've got this rhythm, then there's a sense that you don't have to go out there and force anything. Like it just seems to come to you as much as you go to it, and then you just find that happy medium. When Hall gets in trouble is when I see him start forcing things,

and Morgan Riley's the same way. When you start seeing Hall now uh make a pinch that isn't there or is a high risk play that's when that's when he falls into a trap that's when he gets himself into trouble 100 and he's i mean i just the thing the stat that borny brought up there with him and giordano i i really can't believe that we're how many games into the season and that's the least top pair and it's actually good that's a shocking development for the least but the thing with hall is really their only true defensive defenseman right he's a guy that blocks shots forever he's a guy that he's a guy well muslin plays that role

too when they were playing together too but he blocks shots he kills penalties well you know he's he plays really good defense in his own zone he's it's crazy how valuable valuable he's become over the last little bit here and it's just i'm happy to see that he's pulled himself out of what he was in there earlier and we're in pittsburgh minnesota new jersey i mean those were not easy games this is what i why i started off saying this team just looks best when they're motivated it looks like they saw a challenge and, man, they're able to rise up when presented with them, except in playoffs. Okay, don't get ahead of yourself.

I just gave you November. I gave you the month of November, so don't get ahead of yourself. Okay, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Lilligren and Sandin and what he sees. Yeah, for sure. We talked about it a lot this morning about how they're, you know, in one way or another, they're going to grow through this experience. I thought those guys today were excellent,

maybe as good as they've been on this trip. And to do it on a back-to-back against an opponent like this, there's some real challenging matchups there for them. I thought they were really good. You can see them growing here through this. So it's really nice to see. I'm going to throw out something for Sandin that I personally think may have helped him, but more importantly, helped him with his teammates.

The fight against the Islanders. Wallstrom. You don't see a little bit of change since that moment and what that might have done for him and his teammates? I do. Yeah. Well, I told you after that game, I said, like, you know, when they came in, it was big back pats and hugs for having the chutzpah to stand in there against a much bigger man

who just beat the hell out of Tony D'Angelo a couple nights ago, by the way. But, like, if we, Sam, revisit the Leafs over the last few years, how many real moments have they had? We remember Spezza in Winnipeg. The flying knee. Right? Yeah.

Outside of that, it's not a typical look for them. Mm-hmm. And having it be a guy that doesn't ever do it too like he's got a physical side to his game he's not afraid to throw a body check but a fight that doesn't that's not in his bag of tricks and for him to do it i don't mind it like there's probably a lot of people that would be like i don't know he's just he's starting to play better but having the belief of your teammates after that and have them all tell you how much they loved it and the best player on the team's calling him an animal it can't hurt your confidence can't, especially if you come into the year asking for more money,

basically publicly stating you think you're better than one of your best friends on the team. Like there's some, you know, you're not the scrappy underdog like Canada anymore. You have made yourself the F Croatia of defensemen. You know, and so this is, but this is now, you know, he's, he stood up and the boys had his back and you feel like you're in the group again. So maybe there is something to a Kipper.

Okay. Mentioned Mitch Marner extending his point street to 16 games. Let's hear Sheldon Keefe on Mitch Marner. You get in a rhythm when you're an elite player like that. And you just feel like every shift you're going to make a difference. So I think, you know, he just is, you know, he's feeling it. You know, he's feeling it with the puck, without the puck, with his defending. I mean, some of his best plays are coming off of his reads

and creating turnovers to create high-end chances for us. So for him, he has that ability on both sides of the puck to impact the game, and right now he's really feeling it. He can tell he's seeing things really well, and it seems like no matter the minutes or the situation or the schedule, that he's just continuing to push on. Sheldon's right, especially when it comes to the minutes. He's not the biggest framed guy.

We know that. But to come off of a Friday 2 o'clock game and look like you've been resting for weeks Saturday night to start that game, this guy, he's just constantly full of energy. I've said this all along. You guys know how I feel, man. You want to talk about the real engine behind the Toronto Maple Leafs? It's number 16.

Yeah, no. Go ahead, Sam. Well, no, I just, listen, we do know how you feel, Kipper, and that's completely fine because it's a good side of things to be on these days. He's been the best player in the Leafs by far in the last two weeks, three weeks, however long this point stretch has been going. But he had, was the point streak last year was 13 games and i think he had 28 or 27 points over that stretch like the offensive numbers were absolutely stupid to me but this year the point streak when it's crazy we're talking about two separate point

streaks of over like that many games yeah but doesn But doesn't it feel like it's just every part of it is more dominant this year even than last year? Like, I feel like maybe it's not as high a point percentage as it was last year, but the whole rest of the game feels even more complete than it did last year. Like, he's really gone to another level for me despite how many points he's getting.

This stretch for me, JB, is the best I've seen him ever in a Leaf uniform. Completely agree. Yeah, no argument. It's been unbelievable. I just think he's been so good so many times. It's tough to piece it together. His work on the forecheck and getting pucks back is really exceptional.

What changes when Marner looks like this is the Leafs' ability to get Matthews freed up and get him an easier assignment and let Marner take the No. 1 matchups. Think about how important that is for the team. He kills penalties. He draws the No. 1 matchups. He's elevated a guy in John Tavares who they badly needed to have success. He's been everything for them. The setup to Holmberg and matthews were sorry holmberg and devars were almost identical where he just goes and gets it

and makes a play it is just you know he is such a key cog for them there's no no doubt and the and the holmberg one was at the end of a long shift that they were in the defensive zone and he makes a read where he's like i'm gonna go in there and take this puck goes in there steals a puck sets it up for holmberg who shoots it in the net so he uh yeah like i i do agree with kipper that this is the best i've seen him i i just think all facets of the game are complete did uh three points out of austin convince you that this could open up a little bit of a flood gate for him get him on a roll here because i gotta be honest with you i know he set up uh mitch on on the first goal but i never really like his first period yeah go ahead barney well i'll just say that i think it can be the start of something for him

because he's a good player and it's bound to happen at some point but yeah i didn't think he was that much better that night i think uh you know one of the stats on matthews was that game his most common uh opposition was the third fourth and sixth defenseman on the penguins you know things opened up they got some some points that's great i didn't think he looked that much different or better than than he has lately but his coach did sammy you i sent a i sent a very bad tweet about austin matthews about halfway through the first period just being funny i i was very i've been he can't stick handle like he was up on a two-on-one with oh with uh was it kneelander he was on the two-on-one with and the guy made a good read but he legitimately like oh he like fumbled with it and it like goes into the corner and i'm like

what the hell am I watching? And then I send the bad tweet, and he goes and gets three even strength points. One time or two, Mitch Marner, I think, to end the first period. Complete miss on a pillow. One last year that was automatic. I can't recall ever really seeing anything like that last season. No, it was automatic last year. So I don't know.

I think it's a huge step for him to to to just get some even strength points and look good let's hear his yeah let's hear his coach oh yeah let's hear on the bunting matthews on the bunting play yeah incredible no it's just you're not expecting it necessarily to finish in a goal like that but our guys on the bench are already excited for the effort just in front of our bench to win that race, win the battle, and then the pace that he had on to the puck to get it into the offensive zone to begin with.

Then they just stay on it, stay hungry, brings all sorts of attention to him, and Austin finds a quiet area in the rink, and Bunce finds him. Austin finishes it, which is great to see as well because I think Austin has been playing some really good hockey for us and has really helped lead the way for us defensively and with a lot

of things he's been doing and getting some assists and things like that, but to get the goal is very fitting into the night for us here today. He's kind of Austin there. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's kind of the only way to play it right yeah i i don't disagree for sure there's there's no sense going any other way i mean you

can't really sit there and say we still don't see him uh quite hitting the the levels that we saw last year but uh we're slowly getting there, I think. He did it earlier in the year and there was a national referendum, so he probably shouldn't be mean to those guys anymore. Yeah. But even the goal that he scored, which wasn't an impactful game goal,

you could see the joy and relief that he had off of it. And even for Bunting too, because things haven't been that kind to him offensively as well. Yeah, we're kind of glossing over that play by Bunting. No, no, for sure. And it was a heck of a play and one that I think speaks of, too, the way he's had success in the last year and a half, two years. And that is being that tenacious kind of guy that just won't go away.

High IQ level of staying with it and finding an open Matthews on his knees. I mean, that was a good play against a guy like Malkin, I think, off the back check, too. Yeah, Lee and Malkin were making the back check. He leaned on him. And, yeah, great work all around there. So yeah, I don't know. Some of the stats show that Matthews has been better with

since he's had Nylander there. But I don't think it's a relationship with who he's been with. I just think he's starting to come around a little bit. He is playing well on both sides of the puck and all that. But there's definitely more. And Sam, that's why you sent the tweet. That's why we're talking about him. There's still more from this guy. He hasn't been last year's version of himself

yet. I got to think at some point he's going to want Marner back. Right now, if Marner's at this level... At some point. We're there. He's not doing it tonight, but I can see a switch-up. I can see it five minutes in, ten minutes in. I definitely think there's an tonight, but I could see a switch up. I could see it five minutes in, ten minutes in.

I definitely think there's an eager, okay, Mitch is blowing guys up. He's on fire. Let's get Matthews going, too. And if you remember last year and the last time these two teams played, it was a bit of a wild one. It was 10-7. I don't think we'll have that tonight, but those three lit it up last year in this game.

As mentioned off the top of the show in the second hour, we're going to have Chris Draper to help us tee up a great original six matchup between Detroit and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Detroit a heck of a lot better as they continue to make progress after, what, five, seven years of some lean years. Yeah. And we'll talk to Chris about that around 4.15 Eastern time here. As far as Jim Ralph, he's going to join us after the break.

Another pleasant surprise, guys. POTUS? Did I pronounce that correctly? Pontus? Pontus. The Pope. The Pope. That's what we've been calling him here on the Real Kipper and Bourne show.

Is it a pleasant surprise? I do recall us saying that we liked him, that there was something about him that said that, for me anyways, and I don't know, maybe it's just because he seems like he's a bigger, heavier body out there. But let's get Sheldon Keefe on on Holmberg and what he's meant since being called up and seeing if he sees any flaws in his game at all it's to be honest it's not overly surprising you know I remember talking about him here now because he scored two goals

on this trip but what stands out to me is you know I think that's his eighth game here tonight and I I can't find this guy making a mistake. Through eight games you want to talk to him as a young guy and there's things you want to talk to him about and show him. You're expecting mistakes and corrections and this guy doesn't make mistakes. He's incredibly smart. Defensively he's always in the right spot. He doesn't even have a full grasp of the language here yet or the league yet he's picking up our system and our structure and the things we're asking him to do.

He's near perfect. Wow. All of a sudden, that center A's position looks a lot better with him and Kampf behind Tavares and Matthews. I mean, he's not wrong, but I personally haven't seen anything where I'm like, oh, that's terrible. He seems to skate pretty well. He seems to have a little bit of touch, which begs the question,

what are we missing? You know, like what is the other shoe to drop here? We're missing Nick Robertson because he's never getting back now. Wow. I just mean with Holmberg, though, like surely he'd be a much higher touted guy if he were this good. Was he a fourth or fifth round pick? I honestly don't know. Yeah, I don't recall him being a blue chip prospect.

But this is where guys to win this time of year. You need a few guys stepping up that, I don't care if it's playing over his head a little bit or he's where he should be in his progress, but when you're dealing with... Sixth round? Yeah. 23 years old, six round pick.

There you go. When you can pull out a six rounder and feel like you can pencil them in the lineup now with great comfort, you know now that you're starting to make some real progress here. We know it hasn't been kind to Kyle Dubas over the years looking for that next, outside of maybe the Lily Pad and Sandin, who were first rounders. You need someone in that mid to step up.

Is this him? Well, it's funny because this is what they wanted Freddy Gauthier to be. They just want someone who can be solid and win face-offs and kill penalties and be in the right place. I've never seen Freddy Gauthier shoot a puck like he did Saturday night.

No, Freddie Gauthier can't raise the puck. That's why. But in all honesty, you're right. It's a nice touch if he gets it in that spot that he's able to shoot it past the goalie. Quickly, before we go to break, because we've got to get to Ralphie. But I've got to ask, because we've been pretty positive here, but I do got to play the role of Kipper here, and I have a bit of a negative here.

What are they just going to keep running out Kerfoot? What's he bringing right now? That's funny. Outside of speed, I'm not sure. So I asked Luke Foxes on Leafs Talk on Saturday night, and he kind of bristled at it. But would they ever sit him down for a game? No.

No, I'll tell you why. He's still really well-liked in the room. That's what Luke said, too. And I don't think it would sit too well. In a perfect world, could you lose his, I don't know. I mean, the further you go down,'s a ufa is he not oh yeah so the further you go with his contract the less it becomes a factor here but unless you're looking at some blockbuster and you need to still move his 3.5 out uh i don't know outside of Kerfoot, like where is there to go?

If Nick Robertson was stepping up right now, then that would be an easier decision to unload him. But Nick's not there. And I don't know, is he in the lineup tonight or is he out of the lineup tonight? Out again. Out again. So until Nick steps up, know is he in the lineup tonight or is he out of the lineup tonight out again out again so

until until nick steps up i don't think there's anyone else to replace some guys yeah well there's also the fact that like typically when a good player an established nhl veteran player gets scratched it's because they're playing bad it's not usually because they're not playing good like her fit to me hasn't been bad he just hasn't scored he hasn't created like he's not making turnovers he's not uh you know making defensive errors he's just not creating anything offensively so you're just kind of it feels like punishment to scratch where really he's just not doing the good things. And I like, temporarily, he'll never be a top six forward, but Yarncroft can at least

go in there and look somewhat dangerous. He's never lost in a while. He's floating around the high slot. He's got a good shot. We've seen it. He can finish if he gets the opportunity here, and you should starting with Tavares and

Marner, but long long term I've said this right from the get-go guys Bunting, Yarncrock, Kerfoot and Zach Aston Reese isn't exactly a juggernaut on the left side here I don't know if they've got time to make any adjustments with the roster Kyle and there's probably more priority on the blue line, but still something to think about. Or are you just waiting for Nyes coming in March? Is that the key here? Just buy me time.

All these guys, Kerfoot, buy me time. And Nyes is coming in March. Let's not forget that. But is he going to be good enough to matter, to play? That's a $64,000 question, JB. Yeah, okay. And some say yes, and some say, hey, don't expect a guy to come out of college and be an impact player because it hasn't happened very often.

He's going to come in and play six minutes a night in three playoff games, and we're going to talk about him for 15 hours. Well, you know this town and how they overhype. You know it. Oh, yeah. And it's just no matter what we say or do, you know that the hype machine will happen when Knives is in a Leaf uniform. Okay, let's take a quick break.

We ran through the third-based stop sign again. That's your fault, Sammy. Produce the show. That's right. A little less involvement. More producing on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We got Jim Ralph, the voice, color analyst

for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He is on deck after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Bourne. All right. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, on location via satellite. Do people say that now? Via satellite? Everything's via satellite, isn't it? I don't know.

I don't know how this works. Very sensitive topic around here. It's fair enough. Hey, a shout out to Canada in tennis. Are you big tennis guys? No. I mean, I watch and know the main people. I'm up on sports, but I am not a

huge tennis guy. I enjoy it. Sammy's an all-sports guy. Ralphie. I hate tennis. Ralphie's the type of guy right now I would envision huge in pickleball, like Doug McClain. Maybe we set up a game between the two.

Joining us now, pickleball expert Ralphie Boy. Give me a second. I'm Googling pickleball. Ralphie, what do you do besides

watch the Leafs? Well, I was in last Thursdayursday i was in calling with the wendell and doug gilmore ally of frady uh rick live rather than event for easter seals up there i'll do another one thursday in oakville so you know with the speaking gigs thank god after covid and everything else uh those things are nice that they've all come back. So I'll get a few stretches of six, seven days in a row, which I don't complain about nowadays. Nice. God, you're still as funny as ever, I can tell you that.

You still going to the hot cup of coffee on Danny Gallivan? No, you know what? He's sort of been out of the Mexicas. Danny's been gone for... I know, but that's my era. Yeah, well, I mean, mine too. So that's, yeah, that's 30-some years. So I've updated a few things along the way,

but nothing I could use on the air. Nice, nice. All right, so we were just talking off the top. Another pretty special November for the Toronto Maple Leafs. What, in your mind, big picture stuff, what has been the biggest difference? If you could just kind of summarize it real quick for us. The eye test, what is different now

than what we saw to start the season, in your opinion? I'd say intensity more than anything. I mean, I still think even, you know, you look at through this stretch, so many of these games could have gone either way. You know, where it's one moment or a power play goal or a giveaway that seems to be the focal point of the result. But it just seems like there's a little, I shouldn't say a little, a lot more attention

to detail on their own end. Because I mean, I think if, and that's a five-man unit, that's just, you know, you give credit to the guys that have stepped up in the blue line, but that's a five-man unit. They've been so much more diligent in their own end, and I think that's led to more chances offensively as well. You know, better puck retrieval and, you know, stifling the front of the net. So I would say that's probably it as much as anything.

Ralphie, I've got a take here that I'll throw out there and see what you think about it. But my theory is that some teams are easier to play defense for just based on how the forwards operate in the offensive zone, good F3, all that sort of stuff. The Leafs, to me, look like an easy team to play defense for, and I don't know that I've ever thought that that's the truth in the offensive zone good f3 all that sort of stuff the leafs to me look like an easy team to play defense for and i don't know that i've ever thought that that's the truth in the past yeah but but yeah i think it goes in waves so morning like i think i got like i said i think you know earlier in the year guys were blowing the zone have we lost the role that led to all kinds of problems but he's back i mean what really is

amazing is that if you look at say coming into the season you were to say okay we've got concerns in that and on the blue line for the leafs this year but you're gonna lose your two starting goalies for a straight. Yeah. Should we call him back? Let's call him. All right, let's call him back. I'm going to call him on another line. JB, you want to follow up on my theory? Yeah.

Yeah, I do. You know, I think that some of the worst teams to play defense for are like the anaheim ducks or the vancouver canucks specifically the vancouver canucks i think where you got a lot of guys who are really good offensively and i think of besser and jt miller and you know some other guys there that just kind of lean towards the offensive side of things but they let the other team come flying back at you and i think i mentioned that last week on our show but i just can't remember too many times where i've seen Sandin or Lilligren take a rush flying at them at a thousand miles

an hour or where Mette and Hallowell seemed like they were hung out to dry and defending two on ones. Have you? Yeah. I think you're right. I think you're right. Alright, Ralphie, you good buddy? You out of the tunnel? Yeah, you know what? I don't know if I can

come up with the exact same brilliance that you didn't care uh jb was just talking about uh uh an easier team to play defensive uh defensive hockey for uh and he talked a little bit about you know the challenges of anaheim and vancouver to to get guys to buy in. But I think when you start about back pressure and guys coming back, and one in particular play, Ralphie, that stood out for me is with the game easily out of hand for Pittsburgh.

If you can recall late in the third period where Mitch Marner is almost at the top of the crease on a back check, deflecting a puck away, which should have been an easy scoring opportunity. I mean, when you got guys like that still doing it, it's easier for other guys to jump on board. Absolutely. And what that does too, Kip, is that it's better offensively. Now you get the puck back, you got everybody back,

and everybody's coming out at the same time. And then you start talking about how fast they look. But what I was saying when we were in the dead zone there was that, can you imagine coming into this season, you'd say, okay, the concerns for the Leafs are in goal and on the blue line. But you lose three of your top four defensemen, plus Jordy Benn, you lose both goaltenders. The scoring isn't going to be quite what you thought it was.

The power play will be good, but not great. Oh, and yeah, you'll be 13-5-5. And still saying that there's more there and they can be better. So it really has been an amazing transformation. I mean, it really, you know, when they come back from that California road trip and you're thinking, my God, you know, this was supposed to be the easy start for them and then a time to stockpile points and they couldn't get it done. This would have been the perfect time now with all the injuries to say,

hey, now we got an excuse, you know. We got all the pressure and everybody's all over us. Now we got an excuse to lose. They turn around and they start to string a bunch of wins together. If you want to flip the overtime record, can you imagine they'd be 17-5 and 1 if they had better success in overtime? It really has been um you know a magnificent

turnaround but but i agree with you guys that defensively that's where it starts so when you watch this team and you kind of extrapolate it out to playoffs and next seat you know the the big picture of what what gets them through in the playoffs do you feel better about this group's chances after seeing how resilient they could be through injuries, or is it just kind of same old as last year, same team roster-wise? Well, I mean, I hate to say it. We're going to have to wait and see.

I know, that's the right answer. The one thing with the Leafs, and this goes back, you know, it's this season as well. As soon as you think they've got an advantage, they seem to come up short and disappoint. And as soon as you think they're out of it, they turn around. They're like, you know, a bad relationship, right? You think you should get out, but they keep bringing you back in. So, I mean, you would really hope that this, you know, is another test and another way to mature as a group where you can overcome adversity

and you've got more guys in the lineup that are going to buy into what the team is trying to accomplish and that it does pay off in the postseason. But let's put it this way. Regardless of what we say now, nobody's going to remember what we're talking about come the first week of April. Maybe, Ralphie, the difference this time around is the window to still get better from players that you don't necessarily expect.

And one that's got himself totally in the race with that, along with Lilligren and Sandin, is now Pontus Holmberg. No, mate. And I'm sure if you're Nick Robertson, you're going, really? I know. And he's getting the opportunity. I know, like, even listening to Sheldon Keefe, he says, you know, it's great that he's got the two game winning goals in the last three games.

But they were, he said, right from training camp or even the rookie tournament that he thought he was an NHL caliber player and could help them. So, you know, again, that's the buy-in that it's defense first. And, you know, even somebody like David Kemp, I mean, he hasn't scored in, I think it's 14 or 15 games, yet he's valuable every time he's on the ice, whether it's on the penalty kill or defending. But yeah, Holmberg is somebody that's been able to jump in and score a couple of big goals, but he's been solid defensively,

and I think that's what you look for first. And do you have any thoughts on Mack Hollowell? Three games, is he a suitable sixth defenseman that they can call on in time of need no no ninth nine well sure but if they yeah hey believe me i know what it's like to be ninth on the depth chart waiting for that call the uh yeah he's been solid. And again, I think he's spent about 11 or 12 minutes in the three games each game that he's played, which is probably still more than they would like.

But obviously under the circumstances, you've got to take a little bit of pressure off Giordano. But I think the biggest compliment you can usually make to a young defenseman when they start their NHL careers, I didn't notice you. You know? Yeah, you moved the puck well. You made the little 10-foot pass. You chipped it off the glass to get it out.

You didn't turn the puck over. I think he did get beat. I'm trying to think of what game it was where he got beat to the front of the net. It might have been in Minnesota. That was a little bit noticeable where he got caught to the front of the net. Might have been in Minnesota. That was a little bit noticeable where he got caught chasing a little bit. But, you know, for the most part, I think it's, you know, he's been solid.

And, you know, the higher pace, obviously, the preseason games. But I think you like what you've seen. But again, it goes back to it's not, everything's not a three on two the number of odd man rushes have given up and been way down since the start of the year we're talking to jim ralph color analyst with the toronto maple leafs uh as far as mitch marner is concerned we know there's a consecutive point streak that's knocking on the door with the

likes of daryl sitler and ed olduk. Just what you've seen out of his game comparable to what you saw last season or how high is this guy's ceiling? Well, I mean, similar to last year in the sense that it was a slow start and even the start of the streak. There were a lot of one-assist games in there that if there was a secondary assist,

they weren't like the Marner-Gretzky assists, whether they were the creative setup. So it really took a while before his play started to jump to where we expected it to be. And then you started to see the points. And then you go, oh, yeah, that's right. It's been seven games. It's been eight games.

And now we're up to 16. But I think he's proven again that these – and I guess the comparable Kevin Borny, you know, now we're up to 16. But I think he's proven again that these – and I guess the comparable Kevin Borny, you'd say, is maybe Patrick Kane, you know, earlier in his career. And you see that similarity where – the way I always explain it is, you know, if you play the video game, the NHL video game, and you get the view from, like we would, from the press box.

And to me, that's the way Marner sees the ice. You know, he's one of those gifted players that he seems to see everything around him that other players just don't see. And I think it's great to have that vision, but then he's also got the ability to execute and create plays that way. So he's, yeah, I don't know what the feeling is, but I think he's got a pretty legitimate shot at getting the underpoint mark for sure. Any thoughts on this Detroit matchup tonight?

I feel like I, at some point, would like to see the Leafs get up for teams they're supposed to beat. I understand Detroit's kind of rolling a little bit. What are your thoughts on what they're looking at tonight? I hope it was similar to last year. I think the Leafs have won now seven straight against Detroit. But the games last year were absolutely bizarre. I know the first three times they played,

Red Wings scored 15 goals in the first three games, and they lost all three. I wouldn't mind seeing one of those tonight. Yeah, right. Just to throw it into the mix. And then the fourth game they play, the Leafs win it 3-0, and that's when Matthews scored his 59th and 60th goals of the season.

So I think, you know, sort of the jury's still out on the Red Wing defense. But, you know, I don't think if you looked at what the Leafs have on the blue line going into this game, you would have said at the start of the year, oh yeah, that's pretty solid. They'll be okay. I'm looking forward to it. Billy Huso has been great in goal for the Red Wings as well. It's another test, but man, wouldn't it be nice to sweep this road trip?

You think you had the easier one in California early in the year, this would be the tough one, but they battled through pretty well. Ralphie, one more before I let you go, and you mentioned Villejuso, and that's worked out real well in net for Detroit. Where are we, where are you on the

Leaf goaltending here? Because as you had mentioned, they're getting points out of all three of them, and are they out of the woods in terms of knowing or now solidifying that it won't be an issue that many thought perhaps it was going to be at the beginning of the year? Is the 23 games enough here to say, hey, this is what we have, and it's shown that it can be enough?

Well, I'd rather wait until Samsonov gets back first, Kip. You know, you see how the rotation is going to be, how the guys handle whatever the split is, whether it's going to be 50-50 or 60-40 in Murray's favor. I think that might be a challenge for Sheldon Keefe to be able to keep both sharp and happy because right now on their own, knowing

they've been the number one guy, Samsonov, when Murray was out and now Murray with Samsonov out, they've been great. And now it's just a matter of being able to keep both guys sharp. I think from what you've seen from both guys, you love it. I'll go back to when Eddie Belfort came to Toronto. I mean, you always know

what he did. He played in Chicago a lot. You know, the success he had going to the Stanley Cup finals with the Hawks. But it wasn't until you watched him game by game that you even had a greater appreciation for him. And I found

that with Matt Murray. I mean, you're familiar with, you know, when Pittsburgh won the back-to-back cups and the role he played with that. But, you know, watching him during this stretch now, I've been really impressed at how well he's battled. Like two scrambles. He's not just a butterfly and try to get big. I mean, he's got his nose six inches off the ice,

you know, looking for pucks and battling two scrambles. So, like I said, he's got his nose six inches off the ice, looking for pucks and battling to scramble. So, like I said, I'd rather wait to see how they do as a tandem when they're both healthy, but you sure like what you've seen when they've been the only guy that they've gone to. And even Sheldon

has had some good moments when he's been the guy. Hey, Ralphie, have a great call tonight. Really appreciate your time. All right. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Roy been the guy. Hey, Ralphie, have a great call tonight. Really appreciate your time. All right, thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Roy. Jim Ralph. Thanks, Ralphie. Radio analyst for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

You guys okay still, or we need more sample sizes? Like Ralphie said, once Samsonov comes off IR and you see that rotation and you see the role, then we find out who steps up. JB? Well, yeah. I mean, you had written about and talked about Matt Murray as kind of being the guy from the jumper.

Should be afforded that, right? A couple-year contract, making almost $5 million, and that makes some sense. I'm with Sam that my confidence is growing that this guy on a good team you know behind a good leafs defensive group can look like the guy but samson i've started so so well so well that i want to see him too so i'm happy to see them split games for a while and just see if we know which one wants to run it's almost to to your point a little bit it doesn't matter who's in that they don't give up any chances they don't give up many chances. They don't give up many chances,

and these guys aren't giving up low-danger goals. They're not giving up shots from the boards, none of those muffins. And, of course, we're saying that tonight, they'll give up 14 to the wings. But, you know, so far it's been very good at, you know, what the mandate was going into the season, just stop the ones you're supposed to stop. Yeah, I'm throwing all my feelings behind feelings behind matt murray i'm just i'm

ready i'm ready to get hurt here boys you're ready you're ready to emotionally your chips are in the middle of the table they are take a mat listen i just i the way the leafs are playing and the way he looks to me this is a recipe for success if he's playing not even like i don't even know if he's been spectacular has he like i guess his numbers have been pretty good like was he nine probably in the 920 range i guess probably just under two goals again sorry just under three goals against but i'm just looking up his numbers right now i never i just to me it just looks like a guy who's a capable nhl goaltender that can give them consistent goaltending.

That's what it looks like to me. So he's a 2-5-1 and he's 9-21 through six games played. If he ends up around 9-10, 9-15, that is way more good than, sorry, good enough. It's just good enough is what I'm trying to say. Hey, if he's at 9-10 and he plays 40 or 50 games, love it. I don't think that's going to happen. Listen, we're going to have to deal with it for three weeks

without Matt Murray again at some point this year, don't you think? Yes. Still stays relatively busy for the Leafs. Detroit tonight, Wednesday San Jose, Thursday LA Kings, right? And Calgary on the weekend. Can I just say prayers up for this week for Real Kipper Bourne? What a great week. Three hockey games, is, right? And Calgary on the weekend. Can I just say prayers up for this week for Real Kipper Bourne? What a great week. Three hockey games, is that right?

I'm not sure that's, is that correct? Two hockey games. I think we're Monday, Wednesday. Monday, Wednesday. And then they play. Oh, Tampa Saturday night. Okay. I've jumped one week.

Yeah. I'll take it though, man. There you go. Give us a Monday and a Wednesday game. Tuesday, Thursday reaction shows. Great week. That's LA Kings on the 8th, not on the 1st. So I'm pretty interested just to see this Red Wings team tonight.

I got to be honest. I haven't been paying pretty close attention to them. I got a buddy of mine who's a diehard Red Wings fan. Always texting me about them. 11-5 and 4. Yeah, this is a first-round matchup if the season ended today. Please let that be the case, eh, Sammy? Give me the wings.

Listen, we're barreling towards Leafs lightning again here, but it's nice to see another team kind of jump up here in the Atlantic and be relevant. Well, listen, it was them or Buffalo or Ottawa that somebody, we expected maybe two or three of them to be a lot more improved. But it seems to be like Detroit. People wanted to give Ottawa and Buffalo a lot more credit, but did we expect Detroit at the quarter mark?

I thought I expected them to be better. Didn't you, Barney? Yeah, for sure improved right they they made like seven off-season acquisitions or something so they tried to get better but no i you know i didn't see them really legitimately hanging around like this i will say the fancies don't think they're as good oh really yeah but uh we'll see if they can kind of hang on and keep shooting in the net enough. They've got a great shooting percentage and save percentage. All right.

We're going to find out a lot more about Detroit and the challenges that the Leafs may have tonight. When Chris Draper joins us after the break, he is now director of amateur scouting with the Detroit Red Wings. He knows them as well as anybody. We'll get his thoughts after the break. You're watching, listening to Real Kipper and born after these words, we're right back. Kind of nervous right now, JB. Is that right? Yeah. Cause our next guest told Sammy that, uh,

I better bring my A game. He doesn't like it, you know, if I don't bring my A game to this interview. I didn't know you had a B game. You're all A game. No, sometimes I can sneak in a C minus, to be honest with you. I'm evolving. I don't know. I'm something.

I don't know. Evolving. Did you tell Sammy, our producer, like, you're going to hang up on me if I don't bring. I'm something. I don't know. Evolving. Did you tell Sammy, our producer, like you're going to hang up on me if I don't bring my game? Is that true? It's fact. And I actually texted that so that you could actually read the text. I didn't hide it at all.

I need you at your finest. Well, 20 games and your Red Wings, Chris Draper, are 11 5 and 4 there's there's some a games there going on yeah it's um you know what it's been good you know the guys uh guys have been playing good obviously you know last year marit cider uh you know kind of came in and what a great rookie season he had and lucas raymond and you know now they of came in and what a great rookie season he had and Lucas Raymond. And, you know, now they're coming into their second year and taking, you know, even on, you know, bigger responsibilities for us. But it's been a real good team effort, obviously led by Dylan Larkin.

But then, you know, the free agents that we signed, Billy Huso, who we, you know, we traded for his rights and then signed him. He's been great for us. Ben Sherrod, Ole Mata, those guys have been real good. And then you get up front and you look at David Perron. What an unreal hockey player he is. Obviously, the cup run that he had in St. Louis, you watched and you saw what he could do. But he's been uh he's been

incredible for us what a what a great teammate and what a great addition he's been been for us on and off the ice kubelik has been real good uh dangerous on the power play can really shoot the puck um you know and andrew copp you know bringing um you know bringing him you know back to he grew up a red wings fan and obviously went to University of Michigan, and now he's a Red Wings. So the guys that we had have been great. You know, the core guys that we had before with, you know, the Larkins and the Bertudis, those guys have played real well for us.

And you know what? We're getting scoring from the D. Phillip Aronick has been real good. He's been the month of November has been producing offensively and has been responsible in his own end and playing a solid game in the

offense and defense. With all that, it's a good combination right now of where we're at and where we're at. Tonight, these are the measuring sticks. We know the Toronto Maple Leafs have had a great month too. They're kind of banged're at and tonight is, you know, these are the measuring sticks. You know, we know the Toronto Maple East have had a great month too. They're kind of banged up on the back end but

guys have stepped in and obviously playing very well and you know these are the games that you look at the Toronto Maple East, we know that they're obviously a cup favorite and it's going to be an unreal atmosphere down at Little Caesars Arena tonight. It's going to be a fun one to watch.

Chris, sort of a two-part question for you around all that, just is when you're in rebuild mode, it obviously isn't a lot of fun. How do you know when it's time to flip the switch and say, okay, now, now we're going to add seven UFAs and it's time to go? And just how much more fun is it when you finally do flip that switch and really get competitive well the the guy who flips the switch is uh that's Steve Iserman so yeah that's uh that's that's where it comes from but you know what I think you know going into you know free agency last summer I think we, you know, we had players that we were going to target, you know, and obviously we just named, you know, a big bunch of the guys that we did

target and were able to bring them in. And we just, you know, love the character, love the compete of the players that we brought in. So, you know, I think, you know, I think Derek Lalonde has done a great job with expectations of this team. Obviously, Stevie has as well. But in the end, when you add players and all of a sudden you get some depth within your organization, now all of a sudden I think the players in that dressing room get excited.

We lost Tyler Bertuzzi for about a month. And, you know, if that happened last year, that would have been a big hole for our team. But, you know, when you go out and you sign some free agents and you get some of the younger players that are pushing, it was a great opportunity for Jonathan Bergeron to come up. And, you know, he's come up and he's produced, you know, on the power play, he's added some, you know added some skill and some speed and some hockey sense to our top nine. All of a sudden, we have some depth within the organization. I think that's really how you look at it. When all of a sudden, you have a core group. We mentioned the Larkins

and the Bertuzzi's. Then all of a sudden, you have an opportunity to add to that roster. Then you have some opportunity to add you know to that roster and then you have some good young players that are coming through and and that's you know the the Raymond's and the Siders you know that Rasmussen is still you know young and he he took a big step last year you know we get an injury we're able to call up Jonathan Bergeron and he's able to play in our top nine and play on our second power play and produce some points for us so you know with all that said, I think that, you know, you get the players that are excited in that dressing room

and they go out and they believe in themselves. And that's the fun part of, you know, playing this game. You know, when you have a great group and you have guys that, you know, are going to dig in and battle and compete. And right now we're in a good spot, but we also know there's a lot of hockey to be played. You know, we're still in the month of November. We're joined by four-time Stanley Cup champion and director of amateur scouting for Detroit, Chris Draper.

You mentioned cider, and we know, like, there is a premium on defense. Nobody knows that more than probably Kyle Dubas and Leaf Nation here. So what does a guy like Sider mean to you? And watching tonight, for people that still don't know him as well as they should, we know he was Rookie of the Year, but what do you see in him? Where is he in terms of overall play compared to what you've seen currently

or even years past for you, Chris? You know what? Mo is, he's a complete defenseman. You know, he plays in all situations for us. He eats minutes. He's in our top pair with Ben Sherrod. You know, obviously tonight they're going to get challenged. You tonight, they're going to get challenged.

They're going to see a lot of hockey against Matthews and Marner. I think for a young player like that, these are the challenges that you get excited about. Like I said, he's on the power play. He's on the penalty kill. He plays in all situations. He plays against everybody. There's a physical presence that that mo brings and and he's just that demon that you know you're kind of looking up and down the bench and and you can't wait to get him out on the ice uh you know playing 20 plus minutes a night for us and like i said playing in all situations so

um you know he's been he's been great uh you know, for us. Obviously, last year, you know, anytime you can, you know, come into the league and become Rookie of the Year, obviously, you know, there's a lot of expectations. And, you know, coming into your sophomore year, you know, you have to go out and you have to continue to develop. And I think Ben Sherrod has been really good for, you know, for him. A little bit of a calming influence, and they obviously are our top pair.

So when you get a guy like Moritz Seider, a big right-shot D-man, a guy that can play in all situations, he's somebody that you love to have in your organization, and you can't wait to get him out on the ice 20-plus minutes every night against the other team's top lines, and that's something that, you know, he looks forward to. He knows there's challenges playing against, you know, the best of the best night in and night out. But, you know, the way, you know, Mo is wired

and the challenges that he wants, you know, he embraces those challenges. He's just a – he's an unreal kid on and off the ice. And he's charismatic. And, you know know we're obviously uh you know proud of of having the rookie of the year and everything that he does for us maybe you could tell us a little bit about another interesting guy on your team there tyler bertuzzi you guys have had him for years there's a whole hullabaloo during the pandemic he's a guy who doesn't want to get vaccinated it's a whole you know some people mad at bertuzzi

and whatnot i don't know how it went over with his teammates. But this is a guy who scored 30 goals for you guys last year. Obviously plays with an edge, physical guy. How is he perceived by Red Wings fans? Is he, you know, what is he, I guess what is he perceived as, as a Red Wing? You know what, he's obviously a real competitive kid um you know you you love he's a guy that you love having on your line love having on your team uh he gets those you know those greasy goals he's around the net um he has a really good stick um you know he plays you know

obviously on our on our top six and he plays on every power play um you know so he so he's just that, you know, that player that, you know, consistently you know what you're going to get, you know, whether he's going to play, you know, with Larks or whether he's going to play, you know, with Andrew Kopp. You know what you're going to get, and he's, you know, you love those players that make those plays in those hard areas. And like I said, he's just a a player that you know we we like to have night in and night out um you know he's he can score different ways he's got a good shot he's

around the net um you know and like i said it's uh it's the greasy goals uh you know the goals that you know are important the hard goals the hard work the competitive areas and you know that's what tyler bertuzzi brings uh you know to our lineup and certainly our top six the Leafs have won seven straight games against your Red Wings you mentioned uh measuring stick earlier as someone that's experienced that uh either coming into Toronto or having a game against the Leafs on hockey night in Canada. What would, say, a win tonight do for your group? You know what? I think it'll be great. I think just more importantly, you know, just playing the right way.

You know, that's something that I think that, you know, obviously Derek's going to want from this team, you know, from our team is to go out and just do things the right way. You know, and, I mean, anytime you have an opportunity to play against, you know, one of the best teams in the league, you want to use that, you know, as a measuring stick like we both talked about. And I think, you know, that's the excitement of Detroit-Toronto. You know, both teams are playing well.

You know, this rink is going to be on fire tonight. We know there's going to be a ton of Leafs fans there and the expectations of coming down and watching the Leafs play the Wings. And then on the flip side, it's obviously all the Wings fans. It's just an incredible rivalry. I was fortunate to be a part of it in my career, and it's something that you get so excited to be a part of. And we have some young players that have played in it,

and we have some young players that haven't. And I think they're really going to embrace this moment on our side. I think any time Toronto comes to town, it's a special game. And I can't say enough about, you know, original six matchups and especially, you know, for me, a Detroit-Toronto matchup, you know, always meant so much. So I think the intensity is going to be great. Here we are at the end of November, but the expectations are that this is going to be, you know, a hard-fought game coming from both sides. Toronto's playing well.

We're playing well. And, you know, for our team and for the Red Wings, it's a great opportunity to kind of show, you know, where we're at. And that's kind of the mindset that you want to have, knowing that you're playing against one of the best teams in the league. Obviously, everyone knows right now Mitch Marner's on, I think, what is it, a 16-game point streak right now. He's obviously on fire.

Then you have one of the purest goal scorers in the game and a team that's playing well and playing with a lot of confidence. With that said, it makes for a great matchup. These are the games that, as players, you love to be a part of. As retired and washed-up players, these are the games that as players you love to be a part of and as uh you know retired and washed up players these are the games that you miss um you know no doubt uh anytime toronto plays detroit it's something that you want to be a part of last one for me drapes we appreciate your time just uh our expectations changing for this team now because i think going into the year it was like let's see

what we got here let's get into the mix is the expectations changing now and saying okay like we playoffs baby yeah like playoffs and more is that happening well i can tell you if you were to ask the players that are in uh in the locker room they're going to say yes and that's not then that to me is the most important thing um you know the mindset that that the players have um you know they're the ones that you know, the mindset that the players have. You know, they're the ones that, you know, can win. They're the ones that can control this. And so I think that, you know, their mindset is, you know, absolutely. And with that said, you know, if that's going to happen, you know, the first thing that you have to have

is obviously you have to have consistency. And so far we've had that. You know, we've, you know, we've been able to bounce back from some tough losses or however it's been and, and, uh, you know, you know, win hockey games. And, uh, you know, so I think right now it's, uh, it's, it's great. I think the, the players are believing in themselves. I think there's a great group down there. Uh,

I think it's a competitive group and I think we, you know, like we talked about earlier on the call, you know, the players that Stevie brought in have been outstanding for us on and off the ice and, you know, not only impacted, you know, what they're doing and how they're playing, but they've impacted a lot of our younger players, and that was something that was going to be real important for us going forward. Hey, Drapes, I was telling the boys, I think, last week,

the time that we went to tennis together i think it was the the old rogers cup i don't know what it is now maybe national bank and we're high above uh in in one of the boxes and serena williams is ready to serve and you're telling me a scotty bullman story and right when the ball's in the air i break out laughing and then she grabs the ball and then looks directly at me in the sky box and i'm like uh sorry serena do you remember the story and well absolutely i don't remember the scotty bowman story but i remember exactly what you're talking about and like she there was eye contact and she wasn't happy. No, she was pissed.

And that's the laugh right there that I got. And you don't laugh quiet either, by the way. Oh yeah. No, I got a little chuckle. Yeah. So that was, yeah, that was, I do remember it. I, I wish I, I mean, so many, so many Scotty stories. I wish I remember the one that I was telling you, but I remember the moment is awesome. It had something to do with you being player of the month and Scotty stories. I wish I remember the one that I was telling you, but I remember the moment. It was awesome. It had something to do with you being player of the

month and Scotty didn't like it. Well, that sounds about right. Yeah. He was probably like, he can't do that. He can't be that. No, no. It was, I've got Fedorov and I've got eiserman and i've got lidstrom

and and draper is my player of the month yeah that's yeah that's exactly what it was and yeah he just uh i just had to put my head down and just humbly oh yeah got my award and say thank you very much oh yeah hey, really appreciate your time. Great work so far getting Detroit back to that respectability. Going to be a fun game to watch tonight. Thanks for doing this. Yeah, really appreciate it, guys. Thank you very much.

And go Wings. Go Wings. Yeah, thanks, man. Appreciate it. Chris Draper, now presently director of amateur scouting for the detroit red wings man oh man you want to talk about a fourth line in history yeah malpy mccarty throw a little joey kosher in there sprinkle that he has a really good sense i think of where this team's at. He is not allowed to say it's not their time to win a cup yet. But it's closer. Right. And I think that's such

an important step when you finally go, okay, we're not trying to be bad anymore. We're trying to win. You know, for the players' engagement level, I think not only the players you add make a difference, the players around them you get way more out of too, right? Like, okay, every night matters let's let's go that's fun for everyone

yeah but you mentioned bertuzzi in particular uh man this guy's turned into a player a real player brings a lot of different looks like you know you and i nick rober Robertson will never have that physical edge that he has, but that's what you hope one day that Nick can do is come in there and be a 20, 30-goal threat. Yeah, you're right. A big part of what makes Bertuzzi valuable is that he is a pain in the ass, right? Like, he is in people's faces and you know gets in the odd scrap and then he scores 30 along the way so obviously a useful guy um not many

teams have him you mentioned too uh when's the right time to pull the trigger or look for some help now or if they're in a playoff if they're in a playoff picture i mean what did they they've gone six consecutive years without making the playoffs if i'm not mistaken sounds right yeah like if you are within an arm's length here they could be buyers uh i don't know at what level but right they could be this could be the year that they take a couple of those assets and maybe flip them. Well, this is why this is actually like a bigger question for people is like, what is your objective as an organization? It's to win a Stanley Cup at some point, you know, but also, you know, getting into the playoffs is awfully nice. Getting a couple of gates, giving your fans a little, you know, a little some a cookie, if you will, here and there and like giving them something to care about late into the season it is a stanley cup but it's not really the only thing there is bigger picture there and also getting into the playoffs can help get experience for

some of the guys you hope when you a cup down the road so i see the point of saying yeah we don't think we're cup favorites but we're still gonna buy this year you know it's gonna be really interesting for me with the detroit red wings uh before we close out on the Red Wings tonight against the Leafs, is this whole Dylan Larkin thing. And here you have a guy that you've developed yourself to the point where you've made him captain. And lo and behold, man, he needs a new contract. And what's that number?

And are you willing to give it to him and he is he is uh eligible to sign a contract right now and is the number too high some as many uh i would believe that would be in the barzell neighborhood which is over nine million dollars a year yeah it's tough right like there's there is certainly an element of someone like larkin having i don't want to say having won over on our organization but having leverage of listen i was here through the garbage i was a good soldier and even when i was our only player i showed up and i worked every single night i gave you 31 goals last year and we weren't even close to the playoffs he works he leads he does all the right things so i guess the question kipper is do you believe you should pay a guy like that

for what he has done rather than saying here's a contract for what we expect to get from you in the future because part of why he would be owed a big number is what he has endured there yeah i think those days are over i think those days are over too and it used to be a thing and now i don't know that you can make that case yeah which means what he's 6.1 million this year and he goes to ufa 26 years old he know turn 27 in the off season uh see there's no room in especially with another flat cap next year maybe a million and i don't know there is talk that they're renegotiating and if they feel like the cap can go up $10, $11 million in the next two or three years, can you spread it out? Can you renegotiate and spread it out where the cap goes up $3 or $4 million next year

and then another $3 or $4 the following two years? I don't even know if that's going to be enough for teams to kind of overspend on the loyalty push that you're talking about. Yeah. Didn't, remember the Iserman and was it Stamkos, right? Yes. This is a similar situation. Didn't he stare him down?

And didn't he go to UFA, took the meetings with the Leafs? There was that whole thing and then he went back. There is a different element though. For sure. No doubt. But like, and then he went back. There is a different element, though. For sure. No doubt. But, like, isn't it kind of a comparable situation? Kaepernick's been there a long time, going to free agency. I think it's somewhat comparable.

Outside of waking up every day and being on the beach and no state tax and cost of living. For sure. Very fair. I don't know what else uh michigan has to offer a guy who doesn't want to maximize his dollars like he didn't stamp coast didn't max out his dollars but the saw off was way better by staying in florida than it would most any other team. Absolutely.

Especially cost of living and that state tax I'm talking about. It'll be interesting, too, because Eisenman had the deal with St. Louis, Team Canada, where he didn't pick him right, and St. Louis was all hot about that, and they're still, you know, like he's dug in where he's had to dig in. This is a couple instances, you know, is he going to dig in a guy like Larkin? On the other hand, Larkin scored 30 last year. He's 26 years old.

He's your captain. He's easily worth nine times eight. Isn't he from Michigan? I think he went to university there, too. I don't know. He's from Waterford, Michigan. Yeah. If I was going to guess, I would say he resigns.

There. Yeah. How big is the number, I guess? I think he's worth it. What's he got? 25 year yeah 23 and 20 games nine goals like he's having a great year they're on the up and up like to me it's the kind of guy that you want to keep around you want to build around but he's probably asking for 10 no you think i think it would be in the barzell at? 9-2? Let me ask you this. Would you take Larkin at 9-2-5? Sammy, what's Barzell at? Barzell is 9.15.

Okay, let's just say 9.25 Larkin, or would you take Bo Horvat at 8? Larkin. Larkin for me. Great question, though, Kipper, because those are both like captain, hard-nosed. There's an issue going out in Vancouver right now where Vancouver just does not see Bo Harvat as a premium center iceman good player but they don't have him

in that 7.5, 8.5 ballpark let me just take this opportunity to tell you guys that the Vancouver Canucks are tied in points with the Calgary Flames and one behind Edmonton Oilers they've played one more game

they've won three in a row now. And that top line is dominating for them. They're on the heels of Alberta. And I understand one game at hand, but boy, the Alberta team's struggling. The Canucks have right at the ship. Just a couple of wins. Just a little bit of a streak.

Elias Pedersen's playing at a really high level right now. I follow a lot of Vancouver guys in my feed for some reason. I don't know why I do that to myself, but my boy Ricci out there, all those guys, they're raving about Pedersen. Bruce Bruderow didn't get fired this morning that I

didn't find out about. How has he survived? This guy is, with all due respect, in the nicest way you can call someone a cockroach in a nuclear blast he has survived it's really remarkable he's still there there's shrapnel everywhere and this guy's still doing interviews like what's up what are we doing today um you can't fire him now when you you can't fire him jim rutherford fire him out of a cannon if he wanted and he's starting

the backup goalie a lot like he's and patterson's guy he's tied for first and five on five goals with 10 yeah he's and he's two way too like his playing what he's playing good he's on the uh penalty kill for them playing really well so uh they've turned it around a little bit in vancouver so it'll it'll really make their you know missing the playoffs by two points and finishing a ninth of their draft pick being around 11 really great for them this is why it's so dumb i've made the point all along the best scenario sucks they had a chance to blow it up yeah all right just a handful of teams in the National Hockey League who have not crossed over the quarter pole mark. So I'm going to ask you guys, quarter mark pole here.

Okay. League, Leaf MVP and League MVP. Okay. Leaf MVP for me MVP. Okay. Leaf MVP for me is not that hard. I got Mitch Marner. Leading in minutes, leading in points, do-it-all guy, even through the slumps and stuff was pretty good. Sammy?

Yeah. I'll say, just to be different, I say tavaris make your case i just i thought through the early part of those years they could a lot the early part of this year they could have lost more games even than they did if john tavaris wasn't playing the way it was john tavaris has been consistently their best guy throughout the the start of this year and i think mitch marner over the last couple weeks has been obviously dominant. But just to be a little bit different here, I'm going to go with Tavares as the Leafs MVP through this point of the season.

Yeah, I'll break the time, Mitch Marner. Yeah, I know. Just the flip-flopping, too. Everywhere he goes, he elevates people around him. And I think, no question, I'm with you on Tavares. He has worked his ass off. He's looked better than he's maybe ever looked, to the least, this year.

I don't disagree. Not at all. But overall, I think... Working his bag off. Yeah. That's the ass. Everywhere he goes, like on any line, it just seems to elevate players.

So, I don't know. I mean, he owns Detroit tonight, boys. It's going to be hard for him not to extend this run. Yeah, not a bad night to slap a couple of bucks on Marner over a point and a half or something like that. Yeah. What's his run, Sam? You had it in the lineup.

I'm looking at it here. The Leafs have won seven straight games against the Red Wings. No player has more goals, six, or points, 11, than Mitch Marner for the Maple Leafs during that win streak over the Red Wings. So he has 17 points in seven games versus the Wings here. And we all remember last year the circus game, the 10-7 game and him uh getting the drop pass from bunting and the other way around they were flying around so that was a wild one 10-7 game so yeah all right that helped the stats the the least have outscored the wings 40 to 18 during that seven game winning

streak they have owned the red wings all right all right uh league mvp Someone not in Edmonton. I'd have someone not in Edmonton. Are you going to do the thing I think you're going to do with Dallas? No. Nick Robertson's brother. That's who you're going? Yeah. Not me.

Jason. What do you got? He's second in scoring. I don't know. He's one point behind McDavid and playing five minutes less than him. He's on an incredible run. 18 goals. Like, come on.

He's shooting 18.8% so far this year. Jason Robertson is. Pretty good. Guy is on a tear. What about you, Barney? Well, I didn't know there was no Edmonton clause because to me we overthink it. No, no, go.

It's McDavid still for me. Guy's got 16 goals in 21 games, 36 points. The whole flow of that team is just in his wake. I can't watch a hockey game with him in it and not think he's the best player on earth. And sometimes that's what it is to me. Who's the best player in the league this year? I just don't think anyone's ahead of him.

Edmonton kind of stinks. Yeah, but again, it's the Mike Trout thing. So give him more credit, not less. I mean, I don't know. I'm going Kel McCarr for me, MVP so far. He's got 21 points, 19 games. He plays 27 minutes a night. That's just sick.

27 minutes a night, leading the league in ice time. I wish that was my pick. I'm jealous. Guy is a stud. He plays the most important position in sports. He plays 27 minutes a night. His team's good. They've had a little bit of a, I wouldn't say slow during the playoffs,

but I don't think they're playing to their full potential yet. He is, to me, the MVP so far this season. A couple of guys to give love to here. Sidney Crosby has 30 points in 22 games. 29 points in 22 games, sir. I thought he was bad against the Leafs.

He can't play against the Leafs anymore. He's seventh in the league in scoring. Is he happy? Are they done? They have another game? They're done. They're done. Oh, I've never like, we didn't even mention this in our show today, but

how bad was Pittsburgh? How bad was LeTang? They're big guys. LeTang's the only one I noticed is bad. Sid was bad too. I just didn't notice him. I sent a tweet out that I said I didn't think I'd live long enough to see the Leafs own sydney crosby but i guess well i guess we're there now because he was bad how about the four kicks on the bench yeah did he break his foot or break a skate

what the hell was he i don't know he went back and forth but he was pissed he seldom shows that much frustration yeah how about uh david pasternak? David Pasternak's got 32 points, third in the league in points. Absolute tear. He could be my favorite player. I think he's leading the NHL in shots. No, Timo Meyer is. He's second in the NHL in

shots, though. He fires a ton. Yeah, you love this guy. Yeah, I love him. He's got the swagger. He'll get into it. Every which way. And he does not give a damn what you think. And he goes after people. There's one sequence this year. I saw someone take a run at Bergeron, and he came right back at him.

I think it was against the Rangers, if I'm not mistaken. Really good stuff. All right, I'm going to give you the top five in shots per game in the NHL, and I'm going to leave one out. Timo Meier, David Pasternak, Nathan McKinnon, Austin Matthews. Who are we missing for most shots in the NHL this season? It has to be Ovi. Ovi's a great choice.

He's in the top ten. He's ninth. The guy I'm thinking of is in our division here as a Toronto team, and you guys love him, you and Sammy. Oh, Tage Lemieux. Oh, Tage Lemieux. Tage Lemieux, yeah. I'm surprised me and Kipper didn't take him for MVP.

I was actually kind of waiting. He's got enough points to be in the conversation. Sammy, what else did we do? Most surprising team? Most surprising team, yeah. Well, I'll say the Devils on that. They are first in the league that is surprising uh seattle i got one for you good pick cracking are they 11 and 5 yeah they're playing well 13 and 5 wow i just ripped them off to win yeah yeah they're um

they're seven points clear in a playoff spot right now the squids their depth their forward depth reminds me of when vegas went to the cup final in the first year just like the fourth line is like i don't know it's ryan donato and it's it's a bunch of guys you know is the point i should look it up but they're very good all the way they got like a dozen guys with i think 10 or more points a dozen yeah and shane wright has four goals in three games in the American League. Don't rule him out being relevant by the end. Their fourth line is Ryan Donato, Morgan Geeky, and Daniel Sprong. It's a good line.

It's funny to me. You look at that. If you're in that Pacific Division, you just have to, you know, you're a Calgary fan or an Oilers fan, you just look up and you see two stupid expansion teams ahead of you. That probably doesn't make you feel great. No, I think you're right. My most surprising team is the Leafs.

Whoa. Whoa, what a pick. I mean, we talked about the Leafs challenging for a president's trophy at the beginning. Well, yeah, but that's... Then they stunk for a month and lost their whole... Well, that's okay. Then they lost their whole decor and both their goalies

and they're still second in the Atlantic. Well, you can't get a reboot on your most surprising... No, they're surprising. They're surprising to me. At this point in the season... They weren't surprising and now they're surprising. They're surprising to me. At this point in the season. They weren't surprising and now they're surprising. By Christmas,

they won't be surprising and then you'll be surprised again in March. They're the most surprising. That's not the way it works, buddy. I just made, I write the rules. I'm the producer.

I write the rules. By the way, they are, what is surprising is that they're doing it while being a bottom goals for team. They don't,

they don't score. Sure. So that catches you off guard. Most disappointing? Ottawa Senators, boys. Stink. They stink again. They score a ton.

They can't keep the puck out of their own net. Weren't they supposed to be good? No, they weren't. Not with that blue line and not with the ask of Jake Sanderson to come in and do what... Sanderson's playing 22 minutes a night or something. Right? It's just not enough. I know a lot of people, Kipper, going into the season who thought they were a playoff contention team.

Maybe not get in, but be in the mix until the end. Yes, all of Ottawa. I remember I went on the radio and did an Atlantic Division power ranking with my good friend Brent Gunning, and I said that Ottawa was going to be in the basement, and boy, the texts and tweets I got that day. People thought that they believed in this team, and don't let them tell you any different.

There was big time... Shut up my markers, Jetty. I'm sorry, man. There was big time belief. What about the blockbuster trade between Calgary and Florida? Florida finds a way to still hang around with 23 points in the division, but I don't know.

They don't look right to me. They've got cap problems beyond belief here. They look less dynamic, for sure. You guys were grilling me earlier about 500 records in whatever math you wanted to use. They played 21 games.

The Panthers have 10 wins. Yes. You know, that's not the team that won the President's Trophy last season and was like plus 80 in goal differential. That ain't them. I guess this isn't necessarily surprising or disappointing, but the Caps, seems like they're times a dominant team in the NHL, maybe coming to a close. Yeah.

Good pick. 9-11. They're bad, too. You're at the mercy of Kuznetsov, who can be as talented as anyone in the league, but you don't know what you're going to get any given night with him. And then no Backstrom. That's where they've been really hurt and some some guy who's

supposed to be tough tom wilson that that's at least that's a big hole right at least you can say they're injury laden how about a team that the the leafs just took down the minnesota wild they won this central last year didn't they well they had 113 points whether they won the division or not they're scuffling around fifth in the Central right now. We knew dead cap money of 13 or 14 was going to really hurt them. Absolutely. How about one more surprising team on the positive side? Winnipeg.

Good one. Good one. I wasn't going to say that. The Arizona Coyotes are 7-10. Didn't you think they were a 2-90 team this year? I did. Yeah. I just can't get excited with them being in that building.

I'm sorry. No, not excited. That's for sure. I just thought they'd be worse than bad, and they're just simply bad. They're normal bad. Oh, quickly, a couple things before we go, boys. I have to bring this up. You see Peter Morazic threw eight games so far this year for the Blackhawks?

Oh, give me the numbers. He's won five and one. Four to seven goals against eight, seven, eight, say, percentage. I think the most stunning thing is that he's gotten eight games this year. Exactly what they were hoping for this year. Right? They got what they paid for. That's right.

Yeah, they want to suck. Yeah, they want to suck. My God, suck my god though like good coach in their new first year and you got to watch you got to watch that goaltending performance here's every night here here's one for you the team that is just lurking in the weeds and look out come March and April. Who do you have? I think you're going to say the St. Louis Blues. Yes. And no, I know what he's going to say, Tampa Bay Lightning. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I got the Rangers on that. The Rangers are only 10 and 8. How about Carolina? Nothing, you know, 11-6. Is that good enough to put them in a top contending team now or a team that has got a ton of upside still? The New Jersey Devils' goal differential is plus 34. Second in that division, Islanders are plus 18.

Carolina, zero. They're a dead even on the season. So I think that's not as good as you would expect from them. And big win for your boy tonight. We're going to grind out a beer league game at 11pm with six skaters. The other team emailed and forfeited. We get the win. What a victory for the Zig Zags tonight.

Come from behind. I'm on Leafs talk with Bunkus tonight. Listen. Alright. Our thanks to Chris Draper and his Detroit Red Wings going against the Toronto Maple Leafs tonight. Jim Ralph calling the game. Our thanks to you, JB. Via remote, we're going to get you back home.

Hopefully you're here tomorrow. I hope your kid feels better. Thanks for everybody watching and listening. We're back tomorrow. Real Kipper and Bourne.