Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Head Into the All-Star Break

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

Nick Kypreos is back alongside Justin Bourne and Sam McKee, as the guys discuss the Leafs getting slammed in their final game before the All-Star Break by the Boston Bruins. They bring on former NHLer Luke Gazdic to discuss the Leafs' performance, the bottom six and how they're used, and the importance of veteran lineups balancing out the younger players (41:26). Afterwards, NHL Network's Brian Lawton stops by to discuss the potential for a busy trade market, how difficult it would be to acquire a goaltender, and which teams are primed to be aggressive before the deadline (1:00:13). The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Let's just open up this show right now with my thanks to Sheldon Keefe last night, who in his post-game press conference offered this explanation on why I wasn't working the last two days on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Let's have a listen. Billy was saying that he was under the weather. Did he last a couple days?

Did you sense some of that coming up? I don't know. It's February in Ontario. Everybody's battling something. There you go. There you go. Kiefer had been watching. He said, where's Kiefer?

Someone asked him about it, and he said, hey, I know what it's like. Boys, I'm telling you, it wasn't pretty the last two days. You still got a sexy rasp right now. You can really. And I'm like, every time you guys send me a message, are you coming in today? And I'm like, oh, I don't want to break Sammy's heart. Okay. Buried under blankets.

Sammy, listen, Sammy got some shine. Oh, my God. I'm so grateful I've got my chair back. One more day. Who knows? You know, it's funny. We see each other every day, and we do this show all the time. But I will say, Kipper, I was genuinely really happy to see you today. When you walked in, I was like, you know, it's great. We see each other every day, and we do this show all the time. But I will say, Kipper, I was genuinely really happy to see you today.

When you walked in, I was like, you know, it's great to see you, bud. I like you. I know. You're a good guy, and it's a good show with you here. We prefer when you're here. So there you go. I would say the ultimate compliment to Nick is that we referenced him 32 times. At least.

Kipper wouldn't have liked that, eh? At least. Yes. There were parts of me that watched a little bit. Oh. Yes. Good, good of me that watched a little bit. Oh. Yes. Tuned in a little bit. And then I hacked a lung up and I shut you guys off.

That's good. And also for those watching on YouTube, if it seems like I'm hiding behind my microphone, someone has adjusted it. What is happening with your mic? Did we have Pascal Siakam in here for an interview? You look like you're ready for pitchers and catchers training camp with the Blue Jays. How do you fix that? It's on the side.

Do you need a hand? No, I'm good. Are you sure? I'm just going to sit with great posture. I'll get it at the break. I'll get it at the break. Can I make a recommendation? Just like those lounge singers, just take it off and then just start moving around with it.

Just work the room? Yeah, work the room. Just take it off. then just start moving around. Just work the room. Yeah. Work the room. Just take it off. No room to work in this spaceship. All right, boys. I think prior to my two sick days,

there was a part of me that said, I think teeing up this game that the one thing that kind of, I was weary about was it's the last game. Everybody's got plans. Everybody's thinking maybe one thing the moment the game's over. Did you see any of that come through last night at all? Because I had said, and I think I nailed the score when I said, if Boston or Toronto wins 5-2, is there something that can be said

that this is the last game before the All-Star break and maybe focus and concentration might not be there? I do think that before I overreact for the next two hours, I'm going to start by prefacing it with, I'm aware that it was the last game before the break. I'm aware that they were missing their number one center in Austin Matthews. Apparently Ilya Samsonov had the plague.

Like I'm aware of those things before I overreact to everything, but yes, Kipper, it's just tough to know what to assign certain failures to, you know, like they came out with energy and pace and it was a great first period of hockey. Was it not a great first period?

And then they just couldn't sustain it. And you know maybe their uh gate check was starting to board or something i don't know but yeah february in ontario everybody's battling something the troops lose 5-2 to the bruins last night at scotia bank arena in the last game uh before february 10th so they got quite uh the time off as we do to dissect well i wonder when they'll call them back everything will be wednesday will be first practice that they'd call them back yeah my gut says sooner than that but yeah you want to give them lots of time so what we're going to do is break down each 10 minutes of that 60 minute game per show we gotta stretch it baby okay let's go uh we'll into it, but we'll let Sheldon go first on what he saw,

you know, to start the game and how it progressed. Yeah, I had the first two periods were pretty close. I mean, obviously it's still one hockey game after two periods. You know, it's right there. But, you know, we talked about it this morning. They're a team that puts themselves in a spot to win games and forces the opposition to chase it a little bit, and when it opens up, they make you pay for it,

and I think that's kind of what happened here. Your overview, Kemper? I didn't find both teams particularly uh sharp uh which meant that uh we did get a lot of scoring opportunities in the first period chance chance chance yeah and the goalies were really good samson was unreal in the first just seemed like samsonov had picked up where he he left off for you know 90 the season, and that's playing at a high level. And he looked up to the challenge to go up against Allmark. I know.

I know. There was, you know, after that first period, I had a moment where I was like, hey, like this guy's been great. He's kind of won the net. He, you know, guy from pedigree, big game here. He looks like he's up for the task. So didn't go that way for the next two periods, though, did it? You know, in terms of my takeaway from that game, you know, Keith mentions,

we'll listen to some more clips of his along the way, but he mentions it at one point that, you know, the Bruins kind of stick with it, right? They just stick with it. And the process, I thought that once the Leafs fell behind to one particular, way too eager to try to find one, to create one deep pinching, you know, just opens you up. And that's when the game got really dangerous for them is when they had their guys taking chances and that exposed them.

Samsonov didn't bail them out. That's all I got. And it was safe to say that you were getting a better Boston Bruin lineup coming off of uh three consecutive losses here yeah taylor hall had a great um uh quote um that i that i had heard about uh not happy about those three games and there are three games that they didn't deserve to win and that uh that they they knew that they had to come in here and and play like a team that was desperate for a win, which is pretty incredible when you're talking about a team that has only lost seven times. It is.

To me, that's just a sign of maturity. It's a sign of being pros. Last night, the Boston Bruins looked like they were all world on the pro level. Yeah. You know, they lose three in a row and they come into toronto every guy in their team's available does interviews talks to people you know they've they've they're not worried that it's all falling apart on them you look at teams who win the stanley cups you know colorado avalanche lost four in a row in april last year tampa bay that won the cup two years before in a row they lost three in a row both years like it happens to great teams i thought the the bruins kept their heads about them and

you know went about their business pretty well pretty good hockey game yeah it's just it's heartbreaking how good they are yeah they're good by the way really did you see the opening segment i did where i had to pick you know leafs or bru, bottom six. Yeah, you and Sam and Carolyn pregame went over six or seven categories. Yeah. I actually love that segment. Great idea. Whoever came up with that. Good producing.

It would have been real short for me. I would have just probably had the Bruins right across the board. You could have. You know, and I got killed for it, right? Because I ticked the Bruins bottom six, the Bruins defense, the Bruins PK, the Bruins power play. The Leaf fans killed you. Right. Oh, okay.

Well, that doesn't really count. No, that's fair. But I don't think objectively, like the number one PK in the league, their power play has been awesome in the postseason where the Leafs haven't. I don't want to go through it all right now, but yeah, I feel like it's tough to watch those two teams stacked up and be like, where is the advantage? Without Austin Matthews, it's certainly significant.

It's a big absence for them. Well, the bottom six thing, look no further than last night. A.J. Greer scores a goal for them. Zach scores two goals for them. Carlo scores. Forborts was a shorty. They shut down the top six. I mean, they were decent.

They had that good chance where he dusted Riley, but I thought for the most part they did a really good job on the top guys, and the bottom six was just far better than the Leafs bottom six. Let me just stay on your pregame segment that was on Sportsnet last night. And you had picked the top six with the Leafs and that was based on Marner, Matthews. Yep. Tavares, Nylander, Bunting.

Yeah. To me, it's more guys. You know, the three Bergeron, Marchand, Pasternak might be the best three going, but... Well, yeah, and that's where, I mean, for me, that's a bit of a wash to be honest with you sure and if push came to shove i'd rather have the guys that i know have won before uh playoff proven hall was their second line yeah and also on a heart trophy and can get it done at both ends

of the ice bergeron uh our modern day best 200-foot centerman. I think part of that, Kipper, for me is I'm hoping that he's aged a little bit. Yeah. And that Marchand is not the best version of himself either. Yeah. And you're getting the best of the Leafs, guys. I say with fingers crossed. See, the one thing that kind of stood out to me last night is, you know, Bergeron, Marchand, they came out, I think they hit the crossbar really early.

Great first shift. Right? They won the draw, got it in. Great first shift. But as far as putting the puck in the net, producing, carrying the load of having to produce, they didn't have to. No. And to Sammy's point earlier, when you see a Zaka or a Greer picking up some goals,

then you're in a scenario where if by chance Tavares and Marner kind of cancel out Bergeron and Marchand, then it's the deeper lineup that ends up finding a way to win. Yeah, and that's how they're able to stick with it and be patient and just sort of let that take its course. Now, there were bright spots for the Leafs. Like, I thought Nylander carried a lot of the play in the early part of the game anyway.

You know, I thought he looked good again. Samsonov had that good start. There's moments where you go, okay, I can see how they beat them earlier how they can hang with them whatever but you're talking about a seven game series where these things you stay at it you stay stay at it weaknesses get exposed and the one thing i get again watching last night is if if mitch marner isn't the engine if he's not caring and and not hitting and he scored a nice goal no question about that yeah but him and tavaris struggled they they were they were uh average at best you can't not tavaris's best night how often is mid one or minus if they if they are average

if they aren't stepping up the there's just very seldom do you see the leafs winning well it's actually interesting that i'd love to get your take on watching that game and leaving with the takeaway because i had two thoughts during the game and one is who's gonna score like those guys looked a little off the top guys looked off and it was like so who's gonna score who's it gonna be if it's not you know the three guys who are in the lineup not named Austin Matthews. Go ahead, Sammy. And this is something that's happened to them in the playoffs. You run into this and go, okay, if they're not jamming, who's it going to be? You think back to the deciding games in the last two seasons versus Montreal and versus Tampa, when those guys got shut down,

which often happens in playoff series to top guys, you'll look for who in the bottom half is going to contribute with a big goal. And it's the same story. That's why we come in here when Engvall looks awesome against a depleted Capitals team. And you talk yourself into it. And then you see them against good teams. And it's like, okay, you can't count on Engvall to produce for you. You can't count on Kerfoot to go get the next goal.

So I see a lot of things today about how Lilligren and Sandin struggled and how maybe Dubas is like, okay, maybe that's where we have to address it. But I still feel like my point is you need someone on both sides. You need a top six and you need Jake Muzzin is who you need. Healthy Jake Muzzin is who you need. Healthy Jake Muzzin. I think the other thing that stood out for me is that they don't look like they can physically challenge or at least not look inferior at times physically. I don't even think you mean like...

And I'm not talking about body checking. I'm just talking about battles. And, like, you know, if we go back to a situation where you think you're in the game, and then maybe one of the worst fourth-line shifts I've seen in a very long time, where I don't know how long they were ended ended up being out there and wayne simmons probably had the best opportunity to come off in the neutral

zone chose not to and they were dead dog tired yeah you can see they they just you know watch the clips for lilligran's like poking at it it was a two and a half minute shift for sandin and lilligran oh yeah they were just you know, no resistance at that point, which tough to fault them. They had a tough night, a really tough night. And if I'm not mistaken, he kept them together the whole night. Like, how does that happen? At some point, I get there's been a lot of gain, right?

You've had a lot of sample sizes. So if you wanted to go back to that pair after the All-Star break, I wouldn't even have a problem with it. But when there are some nights a coach can identify that this is not their night and I got to split them up and he doesn't, then I question Sheldon. Here I'm going to tell you my thoughts on that is that they were both so bad and they haven't been but they were both so bad that i think you risk making two pairs bad oh boy you know like if it's hall and sandin now or it's you know lilligren

and riley like they it just wasn't their their night. Not saying they can't have good nights against the Bruins. Even the fifth goal bothered me. The fifth goal. And you think it's over. Sandin gets bodied off the puck. That was Sandin getting completely squeezed off by Pasternak. And then it's tic-tac-toe in front of the net, leaving Samsonov out to dry off of Zaka's second goal.

That one bothered me. And again, what last night made me revisit is that, you know, the Leafs collectively, they've got a good job defensively, but they're just too nice back there. They're just not, they're not mean they're not they haven't got a mean bone in their body they wouldn't they're not constantly getting in people's faces and i'm watching i'm watching carlo absolutely own bunting in front of the net have some nastiness it's the penalty he took on bunting the penalty and we'll get into

that okay you know that's a separate conversation uh and then i'm watching this this uh uh clifton connor clifton you like him love him what love him oh okay mean nasty jumps up on the play blows by tavaris in the neutral zone for a breakaway. Like that's a blue line right now. I'm watching, you know, Boston Bruins. You know, I looked at their blue line. The one thing that does stand out to me is that the learning is done with that group. No one, I think the youngest guy on their decor is Carlo at 26.

Clifton's 27 Grizzly older than that. Four boards older than that and not and none of them are old you know like you have a bunch of guys they say with defensemen it takes 200 games 300 games whatever you think it is to find yourselves like these guys have done their finding and so i think it's a fair question about in a playoff series whether it's boston or tampa bay sandin and lilligren is your third pair we know how excellent they are we know in terms of breaking pucks out in the regular season and all that, but it is, you know, it's a different ask in the playoffs. It's a different ask.

It's going to be Tampa Bay every night, and it's going to be big bodies. You know, if you get another guy, Sandin's probably in the press box in round one. You feel pretty good about that group. With him as an option to come in. But where do you find Jake Muzzin 2.00 at this point because even chikrin's not that it's gavrikov that i just uh it just kind of baffles me a little bit that you felt you had a need last year and you go and you hand pick labushkin and and it good pick it's good pick

and it gives you a little bit of a different look back there. Wouldn't you have loved him not with Riley playing the third pair? Like, okay, lose him to free agency, but don't replace him or don't find anybody that can come in and do that. You know, do you think if they were to go back

with Riley, sorry, with sandin lilligren and say that was a learning experience for those guys about preparedness and what the level needs to be like do you feel like they could find it that they could find their way through 30 more games postseason well they they they have. They got no other choice. Well, the team has choices over the next four weeks. Well, not enough to, I think, blow up that, you know, that investment that they've made over the year and a half. It's just a matter of, I think, putting them in certain spots that they're not vulnerable or, you know,

you're not going to get matched physically. I mean, I just don't see them playing 20 minutes in two or three best of sevens and not seeing a lot more shifts like we saw on the carlo goal yeah every other night it's interesting that they gave riley and brody the tough matchup last night so they played the past the line you know the whole night where in the postseason the past it's been hall and muzzin or you know really whoever's been with muzzin but giordano and hall have been the matchup pair this year in that game they give it to Riley and Brody, and I wonder if that wasn't something of a test.

Like, Brody, they think, is their best shutdown guy. Can Morgan play against top lines all postseason? I got to tell you, doesn't feel great, you know, watching him defend. Was it our, Sammy, was it our very own Luke Fox that asked Sheldon after the game about the gap between Boston and Toronto? It was. I found this really interesting.

Let's have a listen. You guys are watching the game. Last time we played them in their building, you know, it's a tie game with a few minutes left. Tonight's a 2-1 game going to third period. Like, the margins are thin. But over the course of the season, I mean, it's significant. I mean, they just stay with it, right?

I mean, they're 40 goals better than every team in the NHL. So it's a significant gap between them and the rest of the league when you look at the season in its entirety to this point. But when you're in the game, you're right there. That's what's tough. Certainly in Boston and then here again tonight, we're right there. But the difference between being right there and winning the game and being on the other side of it, you know, that's significant.

That's a significant challenge and hurdle. That team is dialed in and focused and competing and working and they make it hard. Was that, in describing the gap, was that three significance or four? It's a significant, significant, significant, significant gap. I would say it's rather significant. I think the gap's significant. That's what he basically said.

I'm not sure anybody in Leaf Nation really want to hear that. It's getting redundant. You know, it's really a compliment to, that was a great drop, really a compliment to the Bruins, because the Leafs have been unbelievable this season. Like, their winning percentage is through the roof. All they do is beat everyone. And they are 13 points behind the Bruins now with 30 games left.

They're 15 points ahead of fourth in their division. So they're finishing second or third, boys. Prepare for Tampa. How about this? Would you make trades based on your first-round opponent? Yes. You're saying, okay. Don't even worry about the second round who do we need to be you got to understand that the blueprint to beat in tampa is also the blueprint to beat boston or get to a conference final or stanley cup final

it's the same blueprint so okay right yeah bigger you need stronger you need heavier yeah uh you need one here you need one there yeah you know timo meyer is six two two ten or something like that if you're gonna be a mean guy if you're gonna beat the bruins of tampa you need at least two bottom six guys maybe a top six guy maybe a d like maybe two d men and maybe a goalie. But other than that. You know, for all the top six talks, Krejci is below a point per game. Bergeron has 38 points in 51 games. You know, Zaka has kerfoot points. You know, like it's not like the top guys

in the Leafs can't outperform them. And that's what it's going to come down to. Yeah, you're right. You're right. If they can step up and be the engine that we talked about earlier in the show, they have a chance. They do.

But those guys. Allmark needs to not be that goalie that he was last night. It's going to be an extraordinary level that they're going to have to hit three or four guys. I just wonder how many. Can there just be a few games where they just take it away? I just don't. I don't believe. Oh, come take it away i just don't i don't i don't believe oh come on

no i don't like i watched that team and it just again i said it last night at least talk i'll say it again it just i want to believe yeah and if they can prove me wrong sure i'll feel like an idiot but a couple of guys get you over the hump a couple of new bodies i think listen you can't go into a playoff series with the bottom six the way it looks just flat out well we got tampa and boston's bottom six will both significantly outplay the least bottom six and then it's all on the four guys to carry you and that's hard in about uh 20 minutes we're gonna have luke gazdik of course uh doing some nice work on sportsnet uh we're gonna ask him about that bottom six a guy that uh knows a little bit about that role wayne simmons got another opportunity

last night and we should just mention that he punched aj gray's head off for sure shoulders picture greer wishes he didn't get a chance in that game. Right. And, you know, for the most part, I didn't mind him. You know, I don't mind him being there. No, he had a couple of good moments. Do I think on a day-to-day basis he can keep up and play that role? No. I think it's... You had a couple injuries in the first round.

You'd put him in a fourth-line wing. I think there's parts of his game that have kind of passed him a little bit. But I'd still rather have him out there than Aston Reese or Hunt or all the rest of them. Because he has a presence. And Joey Anderson. All of them. Nick Patan. How far do you want to go back?

What about McMahon? You like McMahon more? Wouldn't McMahon get four games? He had three good ones, one bad? Yeah, he's coming back. Yeah, I think so too. I don't know if it's where the juggling comes from. Just give Anderson a run maybe.

I got to think he's coming back. Me too. But then he has, you know, a brain cramp where, you know, he gets to stay out there a little longer. The guys are on there for two and a half minutes, and now everybody thinks that they can have shifts as long as they want. I don't get that, and you can't make those mistakes. Yeah, like in fairness, that one, they don't get burned because of it. They get burned because Samsonov can't make a stop.

You know, like some of the goals that went in on Samsonov last night after his incredible first period, the Carlo one, no thank you. You know, like the four-board one, I'll give him the credit that, you know, it's four-board and he almost hit him in the body. It's a weird spot to shoot it. But Carlo one, no good. The Zach Rear one's a great shot, but he's beat clean. Zach won no thanks.

You know, not a great showing down the stretch there for O'Leal. And you know what weirded me out the most is the one where Zach cuts back on the four on four. He's square to him and he's so far off his net. He's actually sliding over as he misses the shot. Like, he shouldn't have to push. He should just be... So there is something, just a strange night for the goaltender. Sammy, does that bring us to my article today in the Toronto Star?

I would like to say that since the time I said that I believe in Ilya Samsonov, he's allowed 11 goals or 12 goals in three starts. So you can blame me. Today I wrote an article for the Toronto Star. It's around the Leaf goaltending. And you can find it on my Twitter account, Real Kipper. It kind of centers around maybe where the mindset is of Kyle and Brendan and Sheldon with their goaltending situation today

the decision that lies ahead here friday night boys go to the game thinking i'm watching matt murray come in and get things rolling again disappeared just like out of thin air not starting i have no idea why i had to like look three times maybe two more because of that third glass of wine but i looked multiple times and i'm like why is he not in there and he's backing up yeah which led to the one of the most bizarre scenes and he's not good enough to start but he's good enough to back up the whole thing a bit just... A bit of a bluff, eh? Like, he's here if we need him. Don't run our starter. It was really, really strange.

And in my article today, I spoke of how it kind of reminded me of Freddie Anderson, where, you know, a lot of people really believe that Freddie was the number one goalie and this is where it's heading. And then it's like, where's Freddie? What do you mean he's got a knee injury? We didn't see anything and what's going on here and never regained it back and the sense is like could could that happen again with matt murray here

you know reading through your article um you know a good look at the quandary that kyle dubas has ahead of him i just watching that bruins game can you imagine spending the assets you mentioned nashville as a potential team that might well i i gave some guys in the article i i gave three choices right one is that you do what you did a few years ago and you got David Rittich, right? For reinforcements. Which is basically another Samsonov, you know, not to answer your questions as you're asking them, but. Or you do something bolder and you go out there and get a goalie that is not

UFA that can give you another few more years at a very cap friendly number. And the sense is, Vancouver may be listening on Demko. And then I threw out UC Saros as a potential. Watching the Nashville situation, which multiple teams have told me that they think that they might be in the selling mode if, in fact, they get too far away from a playoff scenario and i'm sorry what you see sorrows you see oh say can you see the fact that uh david poyle and the nashville predators have the draft in june and sorrows is going to be 28 in april you know like if they're not going to win now, might as well get a haul. And that's maybe the sense.

And it's bold, but would you rather feel like at least you got someone that the boys can be comfortable with moving forward for the next two years or in the pecking order of priority, it's not there for you. Well, it's just, if you, to get UC Soros, UC Soros, I mean, the guy almost won a Vezina trophy. He's one of the best goaltenders in the NHL.

He's going to cost that package that we've talked about. We've talked about trading for months now, the nyes and a first. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then you go, okay, what about the rest of the roster? And you're like, ah, we got no money left. We can't spend anything.

You know? It's like me walking around the mall as a kid. I got nine bucks. If I spend my nine bucks, that's the end of it. You don't have a goalie. You can trade for as many Timo Meyers as you want. You got nothing. But you can't watch that game last night and be like, the goalie is the difference.

Listen, I didn't write the article i i didn't write the article today to say that this is what they have to do no now like they've got 30 days they got 30 days they've got uh they'll have by the time that murray comes back in and is healthy they'll probably have 25 games to go how How many starts do you want to get Murray back in before you start feeling good about him? How many more for Samsonov? If Samsonov has another three or four like he had on the weekend, how less engaged are you on him?

Where are you going up against Vasilevsky in the first round? But to Sammy's point, if you're short on a power forward or you didn't get the defenseman that you want at the very least could you have a goalie in there that you think that could steal you a few games if you trade for uc sorrows he better be vesna uc sorrows he's going to see some grade a chances defending on the left side is Riley Sandin I just uh it's just hard to envision right now feeling the way you do about their goaltending situation now going up against Tampa Bay Lightning that's all yep but it does feel like last year with Campbell where you say if he gives us a 900, we might get to a game seven and have a chance.

You know, if he's an 880, we're toast. You know, we just need him to be okay. I'm not going to throw Samsonov in the river for two bad starts in three games. No. I think he's shown enough that you can maybe believe in him a little bit. Yeah, just move on. I think that's maybe as far as I'd be willing to go, that you'd have a little bit of belief in him a little bit is that yeah just move on i think that's maybe as far as i'd be willing to go that you'd have a little bit of belief in him but the murray situation is definitely freddie-esque and when i read that from you i was like god i wish i thought of that because it's

very very similar in terms of a guy that has the past of injury seems like he's kind of i don't know like there's some intrigue with him off the ice in terms of him not being able to play and him getting hurt in a morning skate and all this stuff. Like the parallel is there. And then if you don't have a backup and the Stansons get lit up in game one, you're going to go to wall? Well, no, that can't happen. But so David Radish is brutal.

But like, I don't know who picked him out of Calgary for the Leafs. But that's just not doing your homework. That guy was never the guy. Okay. I can live with that. So I can live with that take on Riddich because I'm not particularly passionate about him. But I liked the idea of having an insurance policy. Seven or eight year in Winnipeg this year, David Riddich.

Is he? I think he's probably played, what, 10 games? 13. 909 you know if what you say or what i say is true that you only got to be a 900 910 to have a chance to win and that's you know then there are guys who can do that there are other ilia samsonovs and now we're talking the third round pick fourth round pick type of guys as your third goalie well or your second of memory is if you're going after your third goalie then you're if you're going after a goalie you're you're you're not putting him in a

situation you're putting him in behind samson off i think yeah so then you push murray out basically you say to matt murray matt march 3rd the day. You need to be healthy and playing well enough to make us comfortable that we don't need to get someone else to replace you. That's where he's at. Or can they put him on Robida Island and take his LTR? I wonder how deep they are in LTIR. If they can use a little bit extra, that'd be fun. Oh, they're deep.

Oh, they're deep, but I don't think they're all the way to the depths. I think they could... What's the depths? 10, 12 schmil or something. It's a lot. It's that much? I thought it was... Oh, go ahead.

No, no, let's look into that. Do you want to do bunting? Sure. What'd you think of Michael Bunting's showing last night? I think Michael Bunting's there in so many ways, but the theatrics, once again, have come back to bite him and the Leafs in the ass. Okay.

And he does not get the benefit of the call. And, okay, let's just... He got screwed last night. He got screwed last night, 100%, okay? And I can't believe there's four guys out there and they did not huddle up they didn't go look at the blood and someone say i definitively know that came from carlo in front of the net sure so he didn't have you know it doesn't happen by magic but it didn't happen everything after that was a circus? It was a clown show.

And that stuff has to stop. And so when Marchand hauls him down, we at the refs don't see that one all of a sudden, right? It has to stop. It just has to stop. I get you feel like you're getting screwed, but the right answer is just to play through it, and that's it.

But for no one to calm bunting down to let them continue to rant and have a temper tantrum on the bench nobody not a veteran not a coach i hated that on the bench guys snapping the stick over the boards okay like stop it it's not helping teammate in the face of the stick it was shabbat it's just not helping it's not helping no no and then you know you look at the history of other guys like cadre was a guy here in toronto who drew a ton of penalties until he didn't right until he has a reputation they stopped making that those calls for him so it does go away there's a history of refs getting the book on a guy and stopping making calls. If I could play the other side of this.

Please do. Which I don't necessarily love to do because I wouldn't say I like the antics at all. And I thought some of them yesterday was quite frankly a little bit embarrassing. But for a team that we make fun of all the time for not having passion and sleeping through games, you can't teach caring like Bunting does.

The guy cares. He's flying around out there. He's in a mix. After they scored, he was literally in a fight as they scored the second goal. Well, it's because he did a little petty dumb thing where he slapped the guy in the face after the goal. Yeah, and guess what?

I don't mind that at all. I was on the morning show today, and they questioned it, and I said, no, that's fine. That's a legitimate hockey play and if there's one guy that you have an issue with or you just want to go up to him and say, I'm not taking your crap and you want to go after him

and in this case it was Coyle and Bunting, so be it. It's fine. Okay, go to four on four. That's not a, that shouldn't derail you that shouldn't yeah lose your focus you lost a draw off the four on four and you never recovered yeah that's not on bunting no not saying it's on bunting it's just one of those things where you know i want to say that i just want him to play hockey but i don't want him to lose that edge so yeah maybe this is a place i need to change my opinion here and to say okay that's

fine i'll back up my my boy sammy here and say like you don't have enough of those guys he's yeah it how much of that is posh is like is fake how much of some of the stuff is... I'm okay to fake it till you make it. I'm okay with that. Listen, I don't know if he weighs a buck sixty. He's small. He's not heavy. He can't fight. He doesn't hit. But somehow you notice him.

Please give me a few more guys like that. For sure. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. There's no doubt that what he brings is something they need. And say what you will, you know, whether or not you think he's a 20-point scorer who gets 40 more because of Matthews and Marner and Nylander. Oh, yeah. And that's not the case. The guy is scoring back-to-back years of almost 60 points.

Yeah. And he's going to make $back years of almost 60 points. Yeah. And he's going to make $5 million next year. Okay? Yeah. So this is him. Okay, put him in Winnipeg. He's getting 20 goals next year. You know, like, or whatever you think the numbers.

I like him. I think he's a smart player, high IQ guy, which is why this stuff is just, it's not helping his team out. But, like, it's human nature for the refs to be like oh you know guess guess who i'm and even on when he got cross-checked in the face or whatever happened the the snap back of the head was like oh that looked like a dive it looked like one of his sydney sydney actually point to the referee that was the marchand one the marchand when he's pointing to the ref was nothing it was two the Marchand one. The Marchand one, he's pointing to the ref. But the Marchand one was nothing.

It was two guys that were kind of wrestling. They both fell down. I thought it was a penalty, but barely. It was nothing. It's really, it's not about whether or not it's a missed call or not. We can argue a thousand times a night on those. It's the theatrics. You're going to now take 18,000 people,

and you're going to point out a referee, and you're going to now take 18,000 people and you're going to point out a referee and you're going to try to embarrass him. And then expect to get the call later the next time. Yeah, you can't show them up like that. It's not happening. And you get everybody in the arena pissed off. The next time it's close and I'm holding the whistle, good luck. That's what I mean.

It is. It's a temper tantrum and it's got to stop. It's immature. You know when they need calls? In the first round of the playoffs and it's got to stop. It's immature. And you know when they need some calls? In the first round of the playoffs. They're going to need a couple of them. Well, last year there was 100 calls on both sides, so maybe it's a moot point.

They'll completely change the way the game's officiated for the first round of the playoffs and then go back to normal in the second round. I have no doubt that, you know, that Miss Carlo is like, you want to be that guy? Go stand front of the net i am i'm not protecting you give give credit to bunting every single game oh he goes he takes this exact beating every game i told you my theory on 511 guys being face height they just catch all the elbows for

sure it's terrible and he just goes straight to the front there takes a beating and just goes off the ice goes back on the ice, goes back to the front of the net. You got to give him credit. He's a yappy dog, man. Absolutely. He keeps at you. I love it. By the way, that Boston penalty kill is so good.

I know the Leafs scored a power play goal, but that PK being first in the NHL, it looks every part of it. I thought the Leafs' power play was toothless last night, aside from the goal. So you know. All right, we're going to take a quick break. I got to go cough. so you know all right we're gonna take a quick break i gotta go uh hack a cough we got the funnel in here he's gonna chug robitussin oh boy you talk about it actually happens i got a cough button too which helps me

luke gazdik uh a great guy that that we can kind of talk about that bottom six and the role that you have to play to be successful. We'll get his thoughts after the break. And in the second hour, Brian Lawton, he's been on before. The only one that I know that can claim he's done it all. Played, agent, general manager,

analyst. Knows every angle. Brian Lawton after 4 o'clock. That and more when we come back. Real Kipper and Born. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. We had a lot to chew on in that first block. We ain't done.

We are not. All right. Sammy, we got Luke. We had a lot to chew on in that first block. We ain't done. We are not. All right. Sammy, we got Luke. Just a second. They're just hanging out on the phone. All right. Let's welcome in Luke Gassick. Does a great job with SportsCenter.

How are you, Luke? Good, Kepper. How you doing, buddy? Yeah, we're hanging in. You know, it's kind of hard to kind of look back at last night's Toronto-Boston game and wonder, you know, did fans get enough of a sample size to understand what the challenges are for the Leafs? Or is that one of those games when, much like the last game before Christmas, when everybody's got other things on their mind?

And, of course, I speak of the All-Star break. What were your thoughts overall last night? Well, they got their lunch handed to them, that's for sure. I was watching the game with my dad here at home in North York, and before the game he said, who do you like? And I really liked the Leafs last night. I've been in that position a lot, that last game before All-Star break. And there's just so much, like, good energy,

kind of good vibes around the dressing room. And we kind of, like, use that energy. Like, you're all excited to, whether it be go on vacation or go home to see your folks and your family, you kind of use that energy. And I honestly thought the Leafs were going to have a better showing than that. But that's just a veteran team there in Boston, man. They thought the Leafs were going to, we're going to have a better showing than that, but that's just a veteran team there in Boston,

man. They show the Leafs again that, you know, if they want to win anything, it's going through them. Did you watch that and feel like they needed like their shortcomings are more on the defensive side of things or more on the offensive side? Cause obviously,

you know, they, they scored twice, but didn't produce a ton. And meanwhile, giving up six, you know? Not great. What were your thoughts on the bigger concern?

Honestly, I didn't think they just looked like a complete team. They just didn't. They were kind of all on different pages, to be honest. I don't think it was, you know, certainly one end of the pocket in particular. They just didn't have it. It was just one of those games that you just got beat. And like I said, man, Boston's just,

they got a good, well-rounded squad. They made a couple moves. Even like that Pavel Zaka move is looking like a pretty underrated trade and sign for them. With Zaka getting Halsey locked up to a nice deal. I know they have some money to work with as their top two centers are making, what, three and a half this year, but they made some sneaky good moves there to build on that core.

Also some sneaky good moves in the bottom six. And last night you mentioned Zaka coming in and not necessarily one of the core guys, but then you look at Greer's goal last night you mentioned Zaka, you know, coming in and not necessarily one of the core guys. But then you look at Greer's goal last night and you're wondering now, you know, what do the Leafs need to match a bottom six like Boston's now? Because, again, it seemed like they fell short last night. Yeah, Greer's a good Toronto kid. Obviously, he didn't get the better of Simmer in the scrap,

but there's tons of guys like that in hockey. You guys know there's guys that are kind of trolling around in American League rosters that are good players, and there's good bottom six-step guys in the NHL that maybe are in and out of the lineup that just need a kind of different look and a different opportunity. And that's up to GM and management to be, you know, sourcing around the league and seeing what's available

and who could use a change of scenery. And for some guys, that's it. You just need a new jersey, you need a new city, and things just pull together. I brought up the Zaka thing because I was asking my dad about, you know, whether that's a Yessie Pouliarvi type situation in Edmonton. If the kid just,

similar situation, right? First rounder, just needed to change the scenery and he's playing well for the Bs. I wonder if a guy like Pouliarvi could do something in the same position. Well, that's interesting

because you've seen, go ahead, Kipper. No, I was just, I was just going to ask you, just one thing on Greer was his fight after the goal. And I think you asked last night in our chat, your group chat. Would you want to give him that fight?

Yeah, would you give him that fight? Let's go to you, Luke, and ask. Would you give him that fight after scoring a goal? Man, I always said yes. Honestly, I always said yes. There were tons of times where I'd be lining up and you know it's coming. As soon as coach calls your line over, you know it's coming. And you have about 15 seconds to make a very, very tough split,

like decision, in your mind. And a lot of times, boys, I'd be like, no, you know what? I'm just going to say no. And the guy lines up and he's like, hey, we want to go. And you say no and he asks again and asks again. And you're just like, you know what? Screw it. Let's do it.

You know? You push over. Like, I don't care. And by that time, like, I was confident enough in myself and my abilities as, you know, an enforcer, as people like to call them, that, like, I didn't lose too many fights. So I knew, like, I don't know. It's a tough way to say it in my view, but, like, I was confident enough in my abilities that I'm like, hey, big boy, you want to ask me to go?

Like, you know, you're going to stand in here. I'll give you one, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's great. That's, you know, that does take a measure of confidence for sure. So you've seen a bunch of guys. You've probably played with a ton of guys who you thought like greer like in a different spot a little more opportunity maybe they can you know find find the foothold looking at the leafs you got mcmahon and you got

anderson and you got holmberg and you know all these guys kind of trying to get in and find that spot do you think that they're enough in the bottom six or did they have to go outside the team and find better in the bottom six i yeah they're not there right now i think even if it's one guy i've been on teams where you make like a like one trade towards the end of toward the deadline and it looks like a nothing trade um immediately to mind brett kulak to edmonton a year a bit ago i know i just brought up edmonton again. It's just a team I, the Leafs and Edmonton are mostly who I watch. And even one small trade can really affect your team. It's a bottom ticker trade that just kind of looks like it's nothing,

and it can really help. And I think there's players in the league that the Leafs should be looking at right now that can really help. I look at guys like Garnett Hathaway in Washington. Even if Poyle's looking to part with Janot, I don't know if that could ever happen. But Ryan Lomberg in Florida. I think there's a lot of options in the league that they can look at.

It's just about whether they can fit it in with Kapp. You know, a lot of questions about the goaltending. We thought for the most part that it's been about whether they can fit it in with Kapp. You know a lot of questions about the goaltending we thought for the most part that it's been fairly well answered at least with Samsonov and unfortunately the inconsistency of Murray but where would you Luke prioritize

Kyle Dubas at the trade deadline? There's a lot of boxes or there's multiple boxes that need to be checked here but where would you put the priority on? I mean, I don't think you can touch the goaltending. It's been

so frustrating with Murray. I mean, I've been on teams like that. You need a guy consistently in there. You know, Ilya's done that for them. But even Murray, like with tweaking whatever he did in warm-ups the other day, like, that drives you nuts.

Like, that drives coaches and players nuts, having to put your backup, not the backup, but the backup for that night in a situation like that. And you just wish this guy could stay healthy because when he's good, he's good. But I don't think it's a top priority for them. But, man, would you like to see him start to string a couple together here? You know, we were watching that game last night and getting a real sense for what playoff, the difference of playing a great team

versus some of the other teams they've played over the last little bit. What do you find is the major difference when you play the good teams, when you're playing in the playoffs, when the temperature gets turned up as, when it's, you know, the temperature gets turned up as much as it was last night? What's different as a player in those games? The good teams, they just don't give you anything is what I found. They'll make mistakes here and there, but they have coverage for them.

So, you know, if your F1 misses on something, they have secondary help. And, you know, if a defenseman, you know, makes a mistake in the D zone, he has help. And they're just so tight checking. And like third periods, once you run into a tight game like that, coming into it, you know, end of the second, third period, they just know how to win. They know how to shut games down.

And it's so frustrating, especially as a forward, when you're trying to create offense against a team like that. They're just layers on top of you on the forecheck and good neutral zones, and it's just impossible to get anything going with them. And yeah, good teams just know how to win. I just wanted to get your thoughts on bunting, and it's a missed call, Luke, and there is a level of frustration there no

question about that but you know if if you're in bunting situation what do you do how do you handle it man i've been playing against michael bunting since this kid was on an american league deal in tucson i was in san diego he's been driving me nuts since 2018 so now having to watch him in my home city here every uh every other night drives me nuts i mean he's not what me nuts since 2018. So now having to watch him in my home city here every, every other night drives me nuts. I mean, he's not going to get a call. What drove you nuts?

What, what, what exactly? I mean, he's just, that's gotta be a call, right? The first one,

I think was the, like the rough thing that he was asking for when he got, you know, cut a little bit there. But man, the other one was just like an elite dive by him i thought and it was just like eventually you're not going to get these calls these refs are just going to you know they're going to let you dangle and i don't know i just think he just needs to shut up and play every now

and then and uh and it definitely saw some frustration last night so just to uh before we let you go i wanted to get your thoughts on that other team you do watch a lot the edmonton oilers i recently uh changed my mind on them kind of figured that looks like the best team in the pacific division to me what do you think about them and their cup aspirations um giving a slower start to the season they are absolutely the wheels are turning there they uh connor looks like i mean it's if anyone listening hasn't been watching Oilers hockey, I recommend highly to watch 97 play right now because this is the best hockey we have ever seen, probably a player play in hockey.

He's literally putting this team on his back. They're getting contributions from other guys in the lineup. I think they win the Pacific. I don't know how guys in the lineup i think they win the pacific um i don't know how you know far in the playoffs i haven't really you know thought that far down the road whether they're gonna you know be cup contenders but i think they win the pacific and they're just buzzing right now they they just look like their locker room is is in good spirits and yeah it's a dangerous team there for sure. And I didn't even mention, you know, Drysaddle, who's playing out of his mind now as well.

So they can stay healthy and get some goaltending. They're seriously, seriously going to put up a fight in the West, I think. I find it, I don't know if the word is interesting or just, I'm a little perplexed that, you know, you need to recommend watching the greatest player in the world in ice hockey if people aren't. Like, is there a sense that this guy just does not get the respect he deserves for a guy dominating as much as he does?

I mean, I actually think so. Because if you watch this guy, it's like there's, well, if you include the goalies, there's 11 other skaters on the ice. But he's at a completely different level than everybody else. I know it was Chicago, but I watched the game last Saturday in Edmonton. He's skating circles around people, and he's in a completely different class than anybody else. Just the way he's thinking the game right now, you can see his mind going and his head's up,

and it's just special to watch. Luke, I saw you had your own all-star break. How was your vacation, man? You coming back refreshed? You ready to rock? Yeah, I spent a couple days in the Cayman Islands. Got down there. It was nice to get away from the city for a bit.

I was actually thinking, you'll love this. I was in Jersey in 2017. We played on a Friday. And I booked a non-refundable trip to Mexico with a bunch of the guys, so a couple grand there. And after the game, Tom Fitzgerald came and grabbed me in the parking lot and told me instead of going to Mexico, I was going to Albany to play a 3-3 that weekend.

So I ran back, had to go back in the rink, get my gear, and instead of a four-hour flight to Cancun, I had a four-hour drive to upstate New York to go play for the Albany Devils for my last All-Star break. So that was the story this morning. I thought I'd let you guys know that for last All-Star break. So that was the story this morning. I thought I'd let you guys know that for our All-Star break. Andy, really appreciate your time, man. No problem, boys.

Anytime. Thanks for doing this. Have a good one. Appreciate it. Bye. It's so interesting. I'm like, first 10 years of my Sportsnet career, I'm like working like a dog,

trying to make every phone call, trying to get respect. And, yeah, this guy's on Cayman. Oh, yeah. It's the new world, man. Yeah. Listen. I got to say. That's what happens with NHLers coming out today compared to me.

I don't think there is anyone that thinks Connor McDavid is underappreciated. That is the ultimate straw man conversation here. There's players now. There's players down at the All-Star game. I don't know where I read it, but one of the players is like, he's the most dominant player

in any sport. There's a case to be made. People aren't talking about him enough. They're a case to be made. He's leaving the league by 15 points or something. They're not talking about him enough. He gets talked about all the time. He's on every advertisement. He's got 17 ads. He's on Hockey Night in Canada every single week.

It might have been more of a U.S. thing. Okay, that's fair. I mean, but that's the whole league. Like, that's the whole. Sean Payton getting traded would have been talked about more in the last week than the nhl has been talked about all year down there it is it is peak one of the greatest whatever three players whatever he ends up being in hockey at his absolute prime right now and the game is better than it's ever been and it's not a fair fight when he's out there right now i would say he's the greatest player i've ever seen play hockey period yeah given our ages that's a reasonable take he's better i don't

crosby never looked as dominant as mcdavid looks right now i don't think no one i i just was in an era where a guy scored at three or four times the rate as anyone else yeah so 100 so you've seen was gretzky more dominant in that era well yeah he was but you know there's there's different reasons for that too and might be uh level of competition for the most part i mean guys there's more goals third and fourth liners you know we're not as they are today. Yeah. The skill level's gone to a complete new hemisphere, but it's apples to oranges.

So do I look at Connor McDavid as the greatest skater I've ever seen in my whole life? Absolutely. He's not doing the skills comp, nor fastest skater, nor should he. What are you, five hard laps? No thanks. He's not doing the fastest skater? He's not. He's doing the accuracy shooting. Come on.

If you're Edmonton, would you want him going a thousand miles an hour without a helmet in the corners? I think firing the pucks at the targets would do fine for us. You can shoot, bud. Look, the best dunkers in the NBAba don't dunk why am i doing this the the interesting part is that for for me and in gretzky's era too is that he was also in edmonton and he got way more u.s exposure than connor does right now. Really?

Gretzky hosted SNL. Listen, Gretzky is a household name. He's synonymous with hockey in the U.S. He hosted it. Constantly on the Tonight Show. David Letterman. Imagine Conor McDavid hosting the nightly news. I don't know, let alone SNL. I don't think it would be very thrilling.

Would you ever see Conor McDavid on Jimmy Kimmel, or would they even know who he is? That's a great question. I love the question. Does Jimmy Kimmel know who Conor McDavid is? That's a great question. We'd see every once in a while Henrik Lundqvist on Jimmy Fallon in the last few years. He played for the Rangers.

He's like one of the biggest weapons in league history. And Fallon's a hockey fan and you can find him at a Ranger game. So maybe that's a bad example. But there was a relationship between the league and NBC because, of course, NBC had a 10-year deal. So it's probably a little easier to put something like that together. But as far as, you know, the exposure of Connor McDavid in the U S it's almost non-existent.

That's interesting. Yeah. Well, that's something, you know, now that ESPN has the rights, I wonder if they're more invested in having him become a household name. They're a star making machine, right?

They should be promoting him like crazy. It's just gross what he's doing right now. So did Gretzky in any way facilitate the trade to LA? Like did he? For sure. He seemed to have more of an appetite for that, right? Like Austin Matthews. It was a contract scenario.

Like who? Austin Matthews has a desire for fame. The way that Gretzky did. Don't mention Matthews and the Kings in the same sentence. Just saying, there is a parallel in the interest. But Edmonton ain't Toronto in terms of national attention. I have not started this internet. So just for the record, that's Justin Bourne.

Saying Austin wants to be famous. I have said started this internet. So just for the record, that's Justin Bourne. Dang Austin wants to be famous. I have said a factual thing. I haven't implied it means anything. Gretzky was on The Young and the Restless. And that was all with Edmonton. That wasn't when he went to LA? Yeah, I mean. This is Wayne from our Edmonton plant was the line.

Wayne from our Edmonton plant? Yeah, they made him like he was uh mafia really yeah that's hilarious and he came in like he was muscle like he was simenko he was acting like he was simenko grits must have made some money over the years because i look back at a lot of the stuff the ads he shows up and when people show like throwback ads and stuff like he was in everything he was on the box of cereal he's in pro Pro Stars, that cartoon. With Bo Jackson. With Bo Jackson and Michael Jordan, I think. He was synonymous. I mean, there's the famous

NHL's hot NBA is not cover from the 90s. That was Gretzky. That was Rangers too. That was our team. Was that your team too, that era? Okay, that's fair. I'm just teasing. Maybe not. But you know, that is something that if you're ESPN,

you have to create, you have to make Connor, let people know about Connor. You're missing, well, if they are indeed missing it, but he's the guy, man. I think. It's true. Yeah. It's true.

Before the NFL ran away with sports. Do you make of anything about ratings being down? Yeah. Like people are trying to make a big deal out of it. But, I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't look good. But, you know, are there reasons why? Because of these regional blackout games? Yeah, there's a number of reasons why.

And actually, Sean Gentile in The Athletic had a good article on it. But in a nutshell, it's like instead of having eight NHL games for ESPN, which they had in the second half of the season they've had 16 or 17 because the success has been so good but they've gone up against nfl football which the numbers you don't get numbers you put darts there or whatever you know so that has watered down the numbers and then there's been blackouts in new york city and philly and chicago and you know for because they have the regional rights so and it's also tnt has done more games there's people on the app like then general viewership is not down it's just

the numbers look spread out yes and just the nights you're on and all that it's number data that needed context context that was shared without context how do we get gretzky to get or sorry conor mcdavid to get into a uh sprint like he gretzky to get, or sorry, Conor McDavid to get into a sprint like Gretzky did? Have you ever seen that clip? I loved it. Of him like, who did he race? Did he race Pele? Beyond Borg, Pele.

And he won, right? Yes, he dusted him. Sugar Ray Leonard. Well, you know, Stewie was just saying, you know, he goes to that bio steel camp and mcdavid has or does or whatever and he says when they do the sprints and he said there was a bunch of guys who were sprinters in high school uh you know like that had done proper sprinting nhl athletes i guess sagan's a great sprinter or whatever but he says mcdavid is like even on land like gretzky is

they've done a study on mcdavid where they know that like you know there's a lot of highways between our brain and our and our legs and his highways like a six lane highway and and and mine's a single plane someone with a slow sign waiting to turn it yes i just off intermittently so that'd be like gretzky like he's built differently yeah yeah he's literally built different there's the sports gene as a book and you know i don't know if this is in it but like michael phelps has uh long legs and a short torso and like slightly higher webbing in his fingers like he is physiologically designed to swim the number one doppelganger i get is Michael Phelps.

Oh, I'm sorry. People always say I look like Michael Phelps. You're a much more handsome Michael Phelps. Thank you. Appreciate that. See, he should be disqualified for having web hands. I don't think they're webbed to the tips. Yeah, that's cheating.

I wonder if you could get surgery as a swimmer to extend your webbing. They don't measure this sort of thing. You got to give me uh flippers then if i'm in the pool he's got massive feet like he's built to swim and this is the point some people the greatest athletes have some physical advantages no kidding so at the all-star game this weekend i would much rather than seeing any skills i would like to see a 40-yard dash with McDavid, Lionel Messi, or who is the... Cristiano Ronaldo? I'm more likely to snap a quadricep muscle.

I'm trying to think of a fighter. You need to find a middle-aged soccer player who's toiling around. Cristiano Ronaldo, who plays in the Middle East. Zlatan. Zlatan would probably be a better comparison. You think you could sell that? Oh my god, yeah. McDavid v. Ronaldo? Absolutely. I think Ronaldo would be like, who?

A Canadian what player? We need a tennis player, too. So, Milos. Milos. I love it. Now we're talking. Milos. So, it'd be like Mike Tyson, Milos.

I think he's a biosteel guy, too. This is like already available to us. We're doing it. Recreate the sprint. And are you going to join in? No. It's like when I take a picture of things with size, I put my chapstick in there so people have a sense for it. Can I be honest with i am i got what you're saying okay i am horrifically

slow runner are you horribly slow runner bad slow skater bad slow runner not a good runner you run oh yeah i was a fullback in the soccer yeah oh he ran oh my god can you can you imagine the tackles kipper was doing back in high school as a center back? You must have just butchered voicing. Killed guys. Absolutely killed guys. Oh, my God. I couldn't even look down the line to see the other team's parents.

This is Canada, so they were like, ah, he's a hockey guy. He's going pro. That was a great sport. It's the best guy He's going pro It's the best It's pretty popular internationally The best was Quarter kicks when everybody's got Their head up including the referee One elbow

Into the chops And they were done Michael Bunting by Carlo Yes but don't look at the official Just play on play through it Okay we're going to take a quick break You just get Michael Bunting by Carlo. Yes, but don't look at the official. Just play on. Play through it. Okay, we're going to take a quick break.

Brian Lawton after. We'll get into the Boston Bruins, the Leafs, and maybe a little All-Star. Get his thoughts on that and so much more. You are listening and watching Real Kipper and Born. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590, The Van. Plowing through. How you feeling? Actually, I'm all right.

I'm hanging in there. Yeah, that's good. Let's give a friendly reminder, Derek, Sheldon, Keefe, what month it is. I love it. It's February in Ontario. Everybody's battling something. That's right. He's so right.

You know, it doesn't even have to be sickness. We're all just in a fight out here for our lives, all right? It's February. I am playing that every day in February. Have you seen the weather in the next day or two? Yeah, it stinks. Yeah, it's like minus 20 feels like minus 30. It's the only reason to go to Miami right now is for the All-Star game then.

Yeah. I want to be there right now. You would want to be there? Oh, yeah. I wouldn't take anything in. I'd just hang be there right now. You would want to be there? Oh, yeah. I wouldn't take anything in. I'd just hang out at the beach. If Sportsnet was like, we will send you there. You don't have to do anything.

I would say yes. Then I would not go. And I would just stay home. No. You're not a beach guy? Not a beach. Maybe I'd go golf. Oh, I love the heat.

Love the heat. You know, I thought I did. So I moved to Arizona. No joke. I was like so tired of living in cold places when I retired. Yeah. I was like, I'm just going somewhere where it's goddamn warm.

And I went to Arizona and two years in, I was like, I am so bored. I'm just so bored of every day. No, I didn't. I mean, I golfed here and there.

You know what I did is I sat at the bar. It was cheap in Arizona. There's your mistake. Yeah. I was indoors a lot. All right, Sammy, where's Brian Lawton? Try and track him down. All right.

Send him a text here. Well, he'll get back to us here soon. All right. What do you want to do? You want to start a conversation that you and J.D. Bunkus had? I didn't talk to him about this, but I saw it on his podcast this morning about who the second most important player in the league is.

Because he said McDavid is the most important player, which we had just had a long conversation, so it's a good segue. But I just thought it was an interesting conversation what you value in importance, because I think it'd be different things for different people. So if I were to ask you who the second most i mean i could ask you the most important player is it mcdavid yes it is kipper well if

oh my god oh did i sorry everybody my wife's like the cough was the other one who's that okay so the cough button was the other one yeah oh sorry what did i press amplify what's the red dump button for does that mean i need to go to the bathroom that actually gives you guys control uh if we were in delay if someone you know say a former player like uh someone that we've had on before swears oh we could eject the audio you could actually hit dump twice and you would drop the last eight seconds just for radio for uh nice to know matter so i can dump sammy if he says something eight seconds after absolutely he says it you press three times, it ejects you through this window.

We have Lawton. Brian's there. See, I learned something new because I coughed. That's good. I'm glad we got that. Lots, help me out here. I'm an hour 20 into the show, but I hope I'm not fading. I got a man cold.

Never. Fading you, Kipper? That's never happened. How are you, man? I'm doing Never. Hating you, Kipper? That's never happened. How are you, man? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Good. Are you at FanFest right now at the All-Star game?

I am not. I'm in Minnesota where it's anything but. Yeah, freezing your ass off. FanFest right now outside. Just like everybody else in Toronto, probably. Nice. All right, where do you want to start, Lotz? Did you watch Toronto and Boston?

Anything outside of that game last night that strikes you on how you think the Atlantic Division may play out this season? I don't think there was any real surprises in that game other than there's a lot of talk about the playoff format and how a couple of monster teams can face off against each other potentially so early in the playoffs. I get that.

It's not going to change this year, so I think people should probably relax on that. Maybe it will in the future, but I would not bet for that, to be honest with you, Kipper. I just think it's the way it is. It's unfortunate for good teams. It's almost kind of like Phil Mickelson being a good player in the Tiger Woods era. Just the wrong time. That is the best comparison I have ever heard for the Toronto Maple Leafs right now. That's wonderful. So Phil Mickelson. It is. That's wonderful. Phil Mickelson. It is. The Leafs are Phil Mickelson.

This is my new, I'm using that every day. Oh yeah, that's a good one. So what do you think then watching that game with this Maple Leafs team? We sit in here almost every day and talk about trades and who they need to add and what they need to add. You know, it's tough in the cap era to add. How much much can they get better without adding?

Or are they at the point where they're so far behind a Bruins team that's the only option is adding? I don't know how they could not try to add. I think it's important for the group that they see management doing everything they can. I understand it's not easy, but as we've seen the last three or four years now, really, where there's a will, there's a way.

And there's contracts you can pick up out there. You could call Montreal, maybe they'll trade you a buyer, and you could call Vancouver, maybe Furlan, maybe find ways to extend your cap space in the Leafs case so they could get one more player on board. It never changes for me guys it's always I think the young guys have done terrific for the Leafs this year I still would want one more player on the back end that could make a difference

is that where we were talking earlier like all of a sudden a goaltending scenario pops up where you're like okay who's it gonna be is samsonov on track to be the starting goalie in game one if murray's unreliable to even stay healthy do you need a a better backup uh a bottom six guy a top six guy, a top six guy, a D. You can't do it all, Lotz. How does Kyle go about the next 30 days? No, you've got to pick your poison on this one. You can't do it all. And, yes, it would be great to get another goaltender to give him a little bit of coverage.

But I don't see anybody out there. I mean, who are you going to get? Are you going to get Ronta? Are they going to trade him because they have a couple other goalies? No. They might keep Ronta. Who knows? He's unrestricted, though. So you think maybe there's a possibility there. John Gibson, you're going to get him? No, that's not going to work out. Not with the term he has left, with the cap that he has. And when you go down the line, there's really nobody that says, okay, I can get that guy. I can actually, it's a realistic possibility.

And if I get that guy, it'll change my team. There's nobody out there that fits the bill right now that I'm aware of. Maybe someone pops loose, but I don't see it happening. So then you've got to look at what other areas can you shore up. And there are a lot of D out there, Kipper. I just want to go back to the goaltending for a second here. There is some speculation that Demko may be available. There's talk about Nashville, if they get out of a playoff race,

that they could sell and maybe Saros could get them a big return. How do you see the goaltending market for those type of guys who aren't UFA? Would teams be willing to take a chance as if they're trading for a number one guy anymore? In regards to Demco, yeah, it's always a possibility. Anything's on the table, it feels feels like with the canucks right now i do think in terms of toronto's position i don't think it's going to be a great return year for teams and unfortunately it just has to do with how many teams are sellers i mean

i was going through the players that are potentially available this morning. Spent about three hours on it, always kind of refining what I keep for my tools. And I can't believe the superstar player pool that's potentially available this year when you think of all the teams. So it's going to be a challenge to find a goaltender because that is the one area that's really weak. But all the other positions are strong, and you've got to pick your poison. Like I said, I just don't see – would I feel great if I got Demko?

Not with what I've seen this year. Would I go all in on that one move versus maybe another one? I would not know what teams do you expect to be most aggressive shopping you know we've talked about all the teams that are selling and they're as you mentioned lots of great players that we talk about toronto every day but surely they're not the only ones heading to the you know supermarket with their grocery basket yeah that's for sure. It's easy to identify all the teams that are selling this year.

And Jose Anaheim, Chicago, Vancouver's Vancouver strange because I thought they would have maybe not look to receive any players back or certainly not any players with a contract that maybe isn't that favorable. So that one surprised me, but you know, we don't say rebuilding anymore. We say retooling. So maybe they're retooling on the fly.

But as far as the teams that I think could be buyers, I think LA is on the prowl for sure. Carolina has to feel like, you know, especially with patch readyoretty going down, that one more player might push them over the top. They always seem to be pretty reasonable in their moves. They're very strategic.

Washington, for sure, is looking for another player, anything they can do. Everybody has the same problem, but there will be organizations. The Lightning are on the hunt again. I mean, I don't know if they're trading sticks and pucks at this point, but they can't have a lot of assets left to move from what they've done in the past, and you certainly can't blame them. I'm not saying it that way. It's just getting tougher for them to make moves. But those

teams are just a few. Colorado, you have to think, is going to go out and try to grab somebody to maybe fill Cadre's role. That could be the difference for them. I don't see how they wouldn't do that. There's going to be action. The problem is there's a lot of players available. You know, let's

say Colorado wants a second-line center. Ryan O'Reilly's hurt. Jonathan Caves is available. Let's say Colorado wants a second line center. Ryan O'Reilly's hurt. Jonathan Taves is available. Max Domi is available. Boone Jenner's probably available. Teams are cycling through their options right now trying to figure out what the best course of action is. You've got

a young general manager in Davidson in Chicago. Is there any scenario that you could see that Chicago would say no to anything that Taves or Kane want because they don't like the return? Or are they in the tough position of saying, hey, I'm not going to be the guy that holds back, you know, making you and your family happy here? I don't. You know, you and I have talked about it, Kipper. There's a very specific process you have to go through when you have players that are in Patrick or Jonathan's position.

You don't want to just give them away. No matter what, a lot of GMs would rather do nothing than do that and be embarrassed or take that step, quite frankly. Some guys, you know, we saw last year with Anaheim, they decided they were moving on from Lindholm. They move on from them. The Buffalo Sabres decided they were moving on from Taylor Hall. They move on from them.

Yeah, but they're not considered their best franchise players in history. And, you know, if Taves wants to go to Colorado and they're only offering him a third or a fourth round pick, I mean, could you see Chicago saying, no, no, no, no, we want a first in this? Yes, I could. Oh, you could, eh? Yes, and I think they'd be justified to ask for more,

mostly because they're going to pick up 50% of the cap, and there's a value to that. If you want to get the experience of a Jonathan Caves, who's making $10.5 million on his cap, his cash is actually really low. I think he's only making $2.9 million salary. But it doesn't matter. The cap hit is valuable. Chicago shouldn't fight that, so they probably would agree.

And I'm just guessing. I'm not speaking for them. They probably would, should, if they want to get maximum value, agree to pay half the salaries for both those guys, particularly because at the end of the year, they're probably maxed out on their retained salaries, but it doesn't matter because they're both unrestricted to get it right back after the season. You just want to maximize your return. Would they be justified to hang in there? Yes. Why did I say there's a specific process? Because you never want to put yourself or the organization in that position. You go to a player, you have the conversation with them, even Hall of Fame level players like Patrick and Jonathan, who

dearly love the Chicago Blackhawks. And you say, look, don't hamstring me here. Just at least give me two or three teams that you would consider and let me do my job. That way the organization gets a fair return. That way we get you where you want to go. That way the organization gets a fair return. That way we get you where you want to go. That's the way that it should work. It doesn't work that way enough of the time, but that should be very clear. It really should be because otherwise you do end up giving away a player. And a lot of GMs don't like that, number one. It looks bad for the organization um so it's it's just something that if you're really thinking about that and you're managing the club i'd imagine kyle would have had those conversations last year with the players lots you've had a unique experience in that you've been on many

sides of the game from playing an agent and manager and you know doing the analysis all that different angles at it. Gary Bettman just celebrated his 30th anniversary as the commissioner of the NHL. He won some award of some variety, Lifetime Achievement Award. What is your perspective on Gary Bettman's tenure as a National Hockey League commissioner? I think Gary has done a good job.

He came into this league back in 92 under auspicious circumstances, to say the least. Nick would remember this because he was one of the players that went on strike that year. And that was probably one of the more challenging times for Gary. He had just come into the league. He was new. He was fresh out of the NBA. The league was doing around $400 million in revenue. And it depends on what metrics you want to use to evaluate Gary.

But pretty much any way you look at it, the league has experienced massive growth. It's had its challenges like every other league, but it's managed to continue to move forward. You know, the tenure, to me, is what speaks a lot about the job that Gary's done. The ownership group is obviously very, very comfortable with him. And if you spend any time around NHL owners, you recognize that it's a challenge to satisfy everybody. Every organization has a different perspective, a different view. And to be able to do that, keep your job, grow the league the way Gary has,

you have to tip your cap to them and say that is just a remarkable feat. I don't know if we'll see anybody come into the league. We're talking about the NHLPA and they're changing their leadership again. You think about how many people have been in there since Gary started. I don't think we'll see a lot of commissioners in the future have the kind of tenure that Gary did.

It just speaks to his ability to connect with people and manage upwards. I think he's done a fantastic job of that. The revenues are over $6 billion now, a long way from $400 million. He's got himself past some of the labor strife that we've seen in the past. I think he has learned as he's been on the job. I think he's gotten better. I think he's softened. No one will probably like to hear that in the ownership group,

but I think overall Gary has softened to see the macro view more clearly of the NHL, and I think that's really helped him and helped the league. Lots. We were talking earlier about that report that ratings are down between ESPN and TNT, and And yeah, maybe they're justified. Justin threw out a couple of reasons why. But would that bother Gary in the league regardless? That would really bother him. You have no doubt he'll be on top of that, Kipper,

and he'll figure it out. You know, I didn't hear what Justin's reasons were. If he wouldn't mind, please repeat them to me and I'll comment. Yeah, you had, Justin had talked about certain games being blacked out or streamed and not being

able to get, you know, all the data. Basically, the games have been, there's as many people watching, they're just, you know, fanned out by different platforms that maybe you, you don't necessarily that register. Yeah, I'd say that's accurate. And I would say that that's what the league would be working on.

They're pretty on top of their numbers. You can't control, you know, how people report it. But you'd have to ask Gary, I would say that, You can't control how people report it. But you'd have to ask Gary. I would say that, and that's exactly what I would have said, by the way. So I would say that Gary would make that correction privately. He's not a guy to really do it publicly, although I think you'll see some explanation to it.

He had two new partners in the game last year. I thought they both did a good job, TNT and ESPN. I think there was a lot of excitement built for that. Certainly the revenue increased on a per-game basis, but the macro picture is where is the game going? So when I initially saw that report, I got to work on it and got to a pretty good comfort level as to how it was not representative of where the league actually is at. Lots. One more before I let you go.

And that is here in Toronto. Kyle Dubas has got 30 days to kind of figure it out at the deadline. It's been well documented that this guy would dearly love an extension. He's not getting it. And it appears that he won't get it until there's success after the first round. How much will that play in to what he can and can't do here? Or is it business as usual? Great question.

Hard to define from our positions. Would have to think he has the leeway to continue to operate the way he has. But if he steps outside of the box and, you know, let's just hypothetically say he wants to trade three first-round picks for Ryan McDonough, the Nashville Predators are out of it. And he's the missing link. Leadership, top 4D, Stanley Cubs, four appearances in the finals, blah, blah, blah. Do I believe he could do something like that?

No, I don't. I think that'll be managed. But I think that's pretty standard. I think he'll be able to operate the way he has in the past. I just don't think he'd be able to deviate so dramatically that no one would notice. In terms of Kyle, I always call it like I see it with Kyle. I think he's done an excellent job overall. Their team has been tremendous. I think if he doesn't make it past the first round, then who knows what happens.

But it wouldn't be on the grounds of that. The team didn't play well this year. It didn't show. Well, it would be on the totality of the lack of playoff performances. And why do I say that? Cause I think someone else will hire them very quickly to be honest with you.

I really do. Lots really appreciate your time, man. Thanks for doing this. My pleasure. Thanks lots. Appreciate it. Brian Lawton.

You said it. You said it best guy that's done it all yeah um what'd you think of his answer on uh kyle yeah i i agree you know i think you nailed that by the way i wanted to say thank you during that interview because i was not listening at the one point because he had mentioned lots uh boone jenner is a name which i was like that's an interesting name he's a big body guy he scored 23 goals in 50 some games last year he's available for 3.7 million cap hit it's kerfoot's number yeah you know the big guy like that i don't know is that interesting at all boone jenner i also read some tarasenko quotes which i'll read to you in a sec uh adam henrik you mentioned him as well yeah i'd probably go there okay before i would boon um jeremy rutherford interviewed tara sanco at

the all-star game um and asked about this being the last time that tara sanco would represent the blues on the big stage tara sanco says yes obviously uh yes because even vladdy doesn't know the future of vladdy there is only one guy who knows more than me and his name is doug armstrong i think that's the guy you should talk about with my future with the blues he pulled up your appeared dorian yes he said if you had any more talks to him lately and he said no not lately so i feel like vladdy feels like vladdy is on the way out the door and has no control over that i probably think that they've been trying to trade him for a while i'm the seattle who passed on him in the in the draft yeah they didn't treat themselves at all

no they're in that don't get yourself something nice they didn't they didn't take him they didn't take any of those guys you you gotta understand that if if teams have a game plan, you don't deviate from the game plan. Well, actually, didn't they get Vince Dunn? Was that who they took from St. Louis? Vince Dunn is like their top defense. He's like 25 minutes away. So maybe there's some good reason.

So, you know, just because something shiny comes along doesn't mean that you're going to go off the beaten path here. And there are some people saying, oh, you know, Seattle's going to trade Shane Wright for someone that can help them now. And it's like, no, that's not happening. That's, they won't do that. They didn't have a knee-jerk reaction missing the playoffs last year, and they're not going to have a knee-jerk reaction to thinking

that they can win the Stanley Cup this year. For sure. It's a long-term plan or at least so we're told so yeah i agree they won't do that all right sammy you want to get back into this uh importance of uh priority for the national hockey league and connor mcdavid sits at the top correct for you yes and who's the second most important player as far as the national hockey league is concerned i think it's probably ovi because of the goal chase well i think if you're down in uh in miami right now i'm here all day i guess his face would be

plastered on most buildings around the hotels. I guess the question in terms of importance is like long-term with the league, like Ovi's got a few years left. You know, Austin Matthews is an American-born guy who likes to, you know, be on the cover of GQ, as I mentioned earlier, and, you know, just won the Hart Trophy. He wants to be really famous. We think so.

I don't know. I think. I know. He wants to play in L we think so i don't know i think i know he wants to play in la like born said yeah but i mean is matthew's not is he more important than ovi yet crosby are we doing crosby because he's the golden boy the golden child this is why it's a good question it's hard to quantify exactly what it means but i think if you were if you were gary betman and you were writing down a list of guys

that are important to your league, let's just say within the next couple years, I think it starts with McDavid and number two is Ovechkin. And it's, you know, maybe not what you want to hear, but the goal chase is,

this is literally the all-time goal record that he is under 100 away, under 80 away. And I'm sure there's a little apprehensive too on you know the temperature the political temperatures that's a huge part of this conversation that has to play into it on how hard do they push and how you want to make sure it's as positive as it can be for the NHL without kind of pushing your luck on it, right? But it kind of disappoints me that Crosby wouldn't be thought of

until like the third, fourth, or fifth guy, especially with what he's been able to do in the past 15 years. He probably has the greatest brand recognition in the NHL today. We talk about, you know, like if jimmy kimmel knows who sydney crosby is i bet i would i would agree with that 100 that this is our new measuring stick would really when push came to shove be the face of the nhl right now probably a more famous name yeah i would agree with agree with that. Sid over McDavid.

Currently. McDavid's in year seven. Crosby's in year 14. He's won everything. He's been the face of the league for a long time. It's just what you're trying to now do with Conor is sell the sizzle, right? Mm-hmm. Sid's the steak.

Yeah. Conor's the sizzle. Interesting. Yeah, I like that. It's well done. Okay. Are we done? Yeah, let's go on.

Rasmus Dahlien is replacing teammate Tage Thompson at All-Star Weekend. Rasmus Dahlien, do you know how many points that man has? 55 points right now. I'm blown away by that. Isn't that crazy? He's only behind Eric Carlson. He's second in the NHL in D scoring.

And how far are they from making the playoffs? Not. Not that far. Let's have a look-see here. I think they're two points back after a bad loss last night. They're sniffing, yeah. They're one point behind Pittsburgh. See, that's the Norris Trophy winner right now.

I think there's a great case. He's 10 points behind Carlson. I don't care that a non-playoff team has you 10 points ahead. So you don't, for me, you don't need to be in playoffs. Like you have 93 points as a team and you're in, so you get a vote or 92, you're out, so you don't. I think there's a buffer zone. Yeah, like if Darlene comes.

If he leads them to close. Darlene is 10 points behind. He's getting my vote. Did you, I don't know if this this is if you listen to jd's show yeah he's the best guy in the league so but he's not having a norris trophy season i honestly i i would have to pick through that i don't know right um i don't know maybe he is and i'm not paying attention to colorado but judging by a team that struggled with injuries and 45 points and he's not a Norris trophy season for Gail McCarr.

So Dahlia or Ray Bork was on JD show and Ray Bork lost the Norris trophy in like, I don't know what year it was. Call it late eighties, something like that. No, maybe 90s, maybe. So he has 96 points, 31 goals, and 96 points as a D-man. He loses it to Rod Langway, who had 33 points. He had 60 points, 63 points more than the guy who beat him for the North. Like, there's a great Rod, kept a lot of pucks out of his net.

Pork had 96 points. Yeah. But that's when you could be a shutdown guy and be one of the best defensemen in the league. People loved you. Yeah, people love you. They're like, yeah, nice 96 points, Ray. You know, play better defense. And he's like, you're playing the whole game in there.

You can find it real quick. Rod Langway's Norris Trophy seasons has to be... It was 83-84. Oh, that early. 83-84. If it's the one that he had 33 points in, then it's that one. Then it's 83-84. Pork had 96 points. He won the James Norris...

There's only 20 teams. He won it back to back. Langway did? Yeah, 82-83, 83-84. And were they a top team, Washington, by then? No. Playoff team team they went 48 27 and 5 under brian murray that's pretty good so because it's all-star weekend i'll give you our more ray bork all-star trivia i think if you know sam don't give it to me but how many all-star games you think ray bork made every single one i'd say like was he hurt one year no made every single one 19 yeah i mean i

don't know i think he played 19 19 all-star teams what did you make of uh speaking of ray bork in the boston bruins what did you make of brad marchand's comments about making less i thought that was hs that was garbage because it's not true the year that he signed that contract brad marchand he had 60 points in 75 games roughly and he was worth six point whatever million that he earns and then the next year he became no that's not this isn't it's not true though because the captain of their team took a million dollars this year no we're talking about brad marchand no but he said the guys here do it no he's talking about the whole okay but if he's gonna lump himself into the culture we have here yeah but the breaks i

mean he's speaking of david kreitchy coming back from checkia taking a million bucks to me he's clearly implying he's one of the good guys who's made a noble decision for the greater cause he did not do that see there's a ton of pressure on pasternak right now to take less i if i'm pasternak his comments bother me yeah quit trying to undercut my upcoming deal here but yeah but i mean brad marchand or david pasternak who has more clout within the organization i think it's probably about that you don't want your teammate trying to cut your legs out when you're trying to get paid you want him to stay there and he realizes that he might not be able to maybe you're making him not want to stay there that's a good point you you can't tell me that he's not talking to pasternak in that message yeah no you're right he is i thought he was talking i thought he was talking

to the leafs well yeah that's fair too that's fair too you know i think the insinuation can be that i'm in toronto and uh you can see how bad it's hurt these losers they're these losers are greedy bastards and they'll take anything that they can get yeah oh sorry do you hear that david hey but but he he's he's talking about a culture that's been around there forever they did the same thing to ray bork ray bork was paid well but was he ever for a guy that made every all-star game there's an argument that he could have been the highest paid guy right that never got there yeah so that's the boston brewing kool-aid before before we go to the end of the show,

we didn't get your take because you've been hacking up along. What did you think of the Horvat trade? Pretty much where it should be for an expiring contract on a rental. First round pick, which I think could be 13th, 14th pick. It's a pretty good pick. Not too many teams can offer that high of a pick. Absolutely. So that has value.

There's so much to play out, right? Oh, no, for sure. And the fact that he is not signed, it's not a trade and sign, should be a little bit of a concern for Islander fans. Yeah, it's like, do they make the playoffs? Does he re-sign? Do they flip him again for more assets? What's the Islanders pick and in what year?

What's Bavillier? Do they flip him? He's signing there. What's Ratu become? He's re-signing. Who is? Horvat. Bo Horvat.

In New York. In New York. Lou does not make this without getting it done. And if Bo doesn't want to do it then I'll say bye bye I think Bo would have had some idea about going to New York and the thought of signing there

nice place to call home for 8 years I think Bo would have made it clear that you know there's a very good chance I'll sign with you as long as I'm happy well you know one thing I know that they will do is they're not going to try to be like, sign with us and not pay market value. They're going to give me by eight or something.

I think the number is eight and a half times eight. That's what I think. A lot of money. That's a lot, Ken. He's a good player, and he's still pretty young, but that is a lot of money. I know, but I think that's, I think after Islanders making this commitment, I think that's what he could pull off. And if you really think about it, Lou lost Tavares, and I think that money that he would have offered Tavares

is still burning a hole in his pocket. And he wants to spend some of it. And I know... You love down the middle. I know Barzell's paid handsomely now at nine. Is it nine? Yep. It's a lot of money too.

Yeah. But you're not. You're now in the... Who said that? It's a drop. Someone else. You're in the wheelhouse of the cap going up where you can afford an eight and a half, nine. There is now you can see the salary cap.

The plan is for it, you know, before long, it's a smaller percentage of the cap. You got Barzell, Horvat, Nelson, Sezikis down the gut. Pretty good. I mean, you can hang with both teams at that point. You see Horvat and Barzell playing together and Bo on the wing or Bar barzell barzell's nylander right like he really no shot right yeah nylander with no finish but like you know he skates it he breaks it out he does all that sort of stuff and you can probably be more effective with less responsibility i do think that. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't think he's going to flip him, though. No. That's not Lou's style. I don't know. If they don't win and he won't resign, I doubt they're just going to say, well, we'll be polite and let him walk. I think Lou's trying to get this thing done ASAP. Right now.

They're on the phone. By the end of the all-star break so at the all-star game he's going to play for the pacific division and wear an islanders logo is the plan he's apparently good because i was so worried about that you know what you know why it is interesting sandus ozilinch was traded from the florida panthers to i think anaheim and then played in the All-Star game, and they had him wear the... And he didn't play.

He wasn't going to wear the Panthers logo, and they wanted him to, so he literally skipped the game. That's where we've come to. I love it, boys. It's a big day up in my neck of the woods, up in On Sound, near On Sound. They're doing Hockey Day in Canada again?

It's Groundhog Day. Oh, so what happened? Is it Groundhog in Sound? Wyatt and Willie, the only ones that matter. He's about a 20-minute drive from on Sound. He came out. Did not see his shadow. We're going to be golfing soon, boys. I heard he was dead. No, it's a different one. Screw that, Groundhog.

There's only one that matters. It's Wyatt and Willie. And he did not see his shadow. And that means we'll be golfing sooner rather than later, boys, even though it's minus 85 out tonight. Awesome news. Thank you. I'm really glad I had to bring that in.

Willie was not invited to Hockey Day in Canada? No, I actually saw the Tragically Hip at the Wyerton Willie Festival once. It doesn't get much more Canadian than that. All right, boys. Where do you go from there? What are you watching tonight? Movie? Well, we got some time off now. Yeah, I'm probably do you go from there? What are you watching tonight? Movie? Well, we got some time off now.

Yeah, I'm probably going to watch the Elvis movie tonight. I heard it stinks, but I'm going to watch it. Watch the Ballard doc. Elvis was good. Yeah? It's one of the Oscar movies. I'm trying to get all the Oscar movies. No, no, no. Watch Elvis. It's good. Okay, I'll watch it tonight. I'm reading a book on algorithms. You dork. I built one. Oh, did you? For my app. Which you own. Well, we'll have to have a talk about algorithms. You dork. I built one. Did you?

For my app. Which you own. Well, we'll have to have a talk about it. Which you own. Next rewards. Check it out. Check it out. Download it on analog or iOS. Don't ask me.

That's my tech term. All right. Thanks to Luke Gazdik and Brian Lawton. Yes, I got through the show. Thanks for putting up with me. We're back tomorrow.