Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: A 'Scheduled Loss' in Salt Lake

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' 6-1 loss to the Utah Mammoth. They discuss the idea of a 'scheduled loss,' John Tavares' production slowing down, and Dennis Hildeby's off night. Then, they chat about whether the Leafs should use one of Hildeby or Anthony Stolarz as a trade chip, Dougie Hamilton's potential fit in Toronto, and Auston Matthews' resurgence. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam dip into the Midweek Mailbag to answer your questions!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Coming right back at you on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. It's our Leaf Hour edition of our program. Kiprios Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo, Ethan Jaja Gabor. We are live on Sportsnet 360, 590, the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, where we always appreciate a thumbs up. All right, boys. Toronto Maple Leafs off that incredible high

in the mile high city came back to reality a little bit last night facing free falling the Utah mammoth Dilling Gunther with what two goals is it is it just got there

Gunther? Yeah Dylan Gunther all right yep with two goals and I'll say this okay All right, let's have it. Okay, you guys go first.

No, no, no, you got to go. You got to go. Because then I'll completely, I don't know, I don't want to over dictate the start of this without getting kind of your thoughts here. You're more pissed than everybody else about it. I'll tell you what I'm pissed the most about. Yeah.

Scheduled loss. Take the schedule loss comment and stick it where the Sunday doesn't shine, my friend. I don't want to hear it. Don't want to hear it. No part of it. And it's like built in excuse against,

first of all, you didn't jump on a plane 24 hours and go to Dallas or Minnesota. You went to Utah where about a week and a half ago they were losing to teams like Nashville, New Jersey, Columbus. Where do you get, where does it? anybody get off that you schedule a loss against Utah. Yeah, they were 22, 20, and 4.

So to be clear on that in 46 games, they had 22 wins. So not a dominant, you know, squad this year. And you're right. I totally get what you're saying that this was a full permission. You don't have to win after how great you done in Colorado. Take your two points out of four and call it a success. Thank you. Did we change your mind?

Because you. There's a scheduled loss. There's 100% of scheduled loss. Two things can be true. It was a challenging night. They've played a million hockey games. They've been on the best stretch of the season. Bull crap.

Okay. Bull crap. They had the easiest schedule out of any team to start. They're at home. They've been resting this whole time. So you pissed away a few points to start the season. And now you get a scheduled start Sammy. All right.

It's funny because, you know, a legitimate challenge, obviously going into that game, particularly Matthews plays 25 and a half or whatever, tough back to back. Utah's a fast team. You know, they were probably going to lose that game. I said that yesterday on the show.

But I don't think you feel very good by the team's performance being them going, no one cares if we win this one. just we got Vegas, we got Mitch Marner coming up, we got the big back paths from Colorado. Tonight is a freebie. Just a full night off. Do you believe,

okay, I'm just trying to get your feel here. Do you believe in trap games? Yeah, I know you don't believe in... That's not last night. But I know last night is the biggest trap game of all time. What are you talking about? It's a trap game about it. Where are you, is the team being trapped into a loss? Is that what you're saying?

A trap game is where you, a game in between two really meaningful ones. A trap game is a game where it's so easy looking on the schedule you take it for granted. And you roll, you go, yeah, we're supposed to. You're fighting for your life for points here. You're game to game now on either you feel good or you feel crappy.

And I got to think they're going into Vegas. They should feel crappy. A ton of momentum out of Colorado, I thought was lost a little bit. last night. See, I get your point that it's easy to overlook last night. I think, why would you overlook last night? Because they just, they just beat the best team in the league on Home Ice and they're going

to Vegas to play their long-time teammate in what most fans are saying is the most anticipated game of the season. And they're wedged in between there, getting it at 3 a.m., playing at altitude against a faster team than Colorado somehow. And they got beat. I don't know. They got starch. They got starch.

They didn't have a chance. You absolutely dug yourselves in a huge hole. You don't get to look ahead. You have to just stay 100% in the moment. Here's the thing. I know you're right. I know that's correct. And I think it's Craig Barubi's job to sell that message.

They didn't. No. We're trying to get as many points as we can. If you guys think this is the easiest game of this week, or whatever of these three, then we better get some points here tonight. And they didn't even come close. All right, let's get Craig Bruby's thoughts last night.

Clip three. Actually, I'd really like us to tell us how you really feel about it. That, Kippur. Could you really tell us how you feel about that game last? Craig Barrowby on the flush game. I have a feeling I want to flush this comment down the toilet. Let's have my... No, this is a flush game for me.

You know, we just didn't execute well enough. It's kind of like we're almost, you know, we're almost got a goal. We almost got the playoff, but we just didn't execute well enough. And I'll give them credit. They had great, they had a great game plan. They were honest. We didn't have much room out there. You know, any opportunity we got, we really had to work for it.

And they were tight defensively and they were quick offensively. They made us chase it around. Yeah, that they did. That they did. The one thing I will say about Utah, that team is way better than their record. Like, you look at who they're in the pack of all these teams, minus 19, minus 22. They're plus 14, you know, some of that last night. But they've been, they've got more skill there.

Really like that Jack McBain. Dylan Gunther can rip it. I mean, you don't want to save from Hildaby on some of those. And I know we're going to get to that eventually, but they have some players. I'm watching, like, there's always a few kids. kids. You look around Toronto guys.

Like, that McBain should be a leaf. Doesn't he remind you of Brian Boyle? Should be. No, looks like Brian Boyle. He's, yeah, maybe.

It's a physical appearance thing. A little game thing. Little kind of. Thicker? Yeah, a little tougher too, I think maybe. He's just. Boyle's a monster.

Yeah. Boyle played the game hard, for sure. I just find him a little quicker, maybe McBain. Yeah, he's a talented kid, man. Yeah, and they did the big. They interviewed him in the intermission masters talk to him, and he just looks like the quintessential big hockey guy.

Yeah, why, I get the impression from talking to you over the years. Why do you think he should be a leaf? You like him a lot. I just know him from there. Was there a chance of the draft or something? His dad is an ex-pro, right? Right. So I knew Andrew McBain.

He was a North Bay Centennial one time. We didn't cross paths because he had made the Winnipeg Jets by the time I got to North Bay. But, I mean, we hear of NHL's children that have a chance to strive in the area. Yeah, not always, though. No, not always. Correct. Right? Some go with different paths.

Some are smarter. Like media? Smarter? Right? I'm so tired. I was like, what is he taught? He's a kid that I think got drafted, if I'm not mistaken, around the third round. and

some of them they don't get looked at because they're playing a tier two hockey which I think kind of be a mistake sometimes like Chris Tanov didn't get looked at

when he was playing Ontario Junior hockey Zach Hyman didn't get looked at they all kind of get shrugged off in this area and others take a chance on them

This is a random, it's unlikely. Did you happen to see Tom Brady's quotes on spit and chicklets the other day? He was on chicklets. I don't know if you saw that. No. He had some quotes just about... Brutal sunglasses. Brady.

Yeah, that's not work. Anyways. He, you know, had a whole thing about how you evaluate young talent and you want to know so much more than can they run a, you know, a 4-240 or whatever. And a lot of those guys you just mentioned are guys that have passion and drive. And they faced adversity. And like those type of players, Hyman McVane, Tanev, like those are hard guys.

And those are the guys get missed because they're not the toolsiest guys skill-wise. You don't necessarily have to take a chance on them on a first pick or a second pick. But once you're in that wheelhouse from three to six or three to seven, go to the net back. Certainly.

No, no, no what's underneath the surface, right? That's all. And I don't know. I think he's just one of those guys. I personally think that McBain would have thrived here. Yeah. Well, that's shame. He's doing pretty well in Utah.

I love that player. I love the guy. It is a good drop. But we get his overview. All right, let's get Craig Brewy's overview of the game last night. Yeah, they pounced early. I thought we got out of the first. We're down one, nothing.

We're in good shape. I thought we came out in the second and actually, you know, J.T. had a breakway right away. Didn't put it in. We had some opportunities there early on. I thought we got our legs under us, and the second goal goes in, and the third one kind of, you know,

really dug us in a hole. I think the second, like he said, they're the second half of the first period. They kind of found their legs, and I thought, like he said, again, first five minutes, if JT. Barry's on that breakaway, which, I mean,

one of the all-time hands team guys in this generation of players, can you just mix in a head fake? Is he lacking confidence? Guys, he scored on that same shot just to the other side a day ago. But I think he got tricked because he looked up and he's like, oh, he catches with the wrong hand. And he shot it right into his glove. Not a chance the guy's been in the league 18 years.

And he lifts his head for the first time. He realizes someone else is catching on the wrong hand. Does it not catch you off guard? It's not not a million years. But you're a... J.T. who is a student, is accused of being a student. of the game as much as anybody else out there and goes to his last detail on how to get better

is surprised when he puts his head up to see a guy catch with the other hand. But this happened this year. Same guy. J.T. shot. Logan Thompson. Aaron from Yahoo that had it. Someone had.

I forget where I saw it. So I don't know. If the handedness JT struggles with goofy handed tenders or something, look at the breakaway room. Yeah. I just, I don't think. Obviously, he knows that this guy catches with the wrong hand, but he probably was thinking,

I'm going to go high blocker hurt. And then, oh, crap, he's got a glove on that hand. Like, it's just, it's just weird. It's just weird. It's different. Nothing doing there. Stop cold. He got off to an amazing start.

I don't think anybody expected him to be on that 107 point pace. But it's really slowed down for this guy. Yeah. Yeah, it has. I mean, I think when he signed this deal, you know, for for and change mill our expectations were that i don't think any of us thought he was going to be an 80 point guy this year if he's going to be a 65 point guy and play 17 minutes a night you go it's awesome it's awesome for what you're getting for that so but that's what he's doing now isn't he

17 and a half but the offense is dried up but that i then i think perhaps to your point that maybe we need to recalibrate what he is and his value a little bit i mean i think they've gotten pretty excellent value to this point in the season they have His contract. I mean, we have 40 points. But outside of the contract and where the salary cap is now, you still got, when we look at the center of the ice, and thank goodness Austin's looking more like what he's supposed to look like.

Now you've got JT still holding that second center ice spot, which right now he's not carrying the weight of it. And then you've got Nick Ward 3 and you got Lotton who's really not happy at 4. So it's not ideal right now. What's not ideal? The center ice position. That they have fantastic depth at the center ice position? Preseason.

Where's the depth? All four of those guys win every single draw and are good defensively other than Tavares. No, but offense, driving offense right now. But when Tree Living talked about this group. I mean, what, Nick Waugh has been unbelievable. Like that line is, we've talked to come in here every day. Is Nick Waugh a second line centerman? Maybe they could try it.

No. No. One thing I will say is tree living coming into this year talked about that depth and how it's almost not so much who's a two, who's a three, but it's situational. And Nick Waugh can be the D zone start guy. Tavares can be the ozone start guy. They can both get 17. They're both two and a half.

So now you've got a two and a three. I don't know if that's. I don't think they're built like a cup team. I don't know if you could beat a Tampa or a Florida in the first round or even Detroit playing a hybrid center ice. I mean, it hasn't, they haven't beat them with when Tavares was an 80 point guy. Yeah, I know. You're right.

So. And they have. But they haven't had a good three C either behind Tavaras in the past. I don't think. Codry, but they traded them. And that's Nick Watt, right? Supposed to be. And they brought in Ryan O'Reilly, but then they put DeVaris in the wing when they brought in

Ryan O'Reilly. Right. So he wasn't necessarily a 3C. He moved up into the lineup. Which immediately... Yeah, that was strange. I mean, of all the things that I'm concerned about on this team, the centers, I don't think really are...

Yeah, like, if we had just done the left wings and you were like, here's your four left wingers. McMahon, Machelli, Nise Lawrence. I'm more concerned there. It's starting to show a little bit, though, Sammy. What is? J.T., first of all. Well, yeah, sure.

But they should give him less ice time and give the other guys who look good. Good, more ice time. I don't think it's necessarily a problem. Lawton is particularly still frustrating for me. For sure. He's good. Like, would you move Scotty Lawton in there for half a game?

Yeah, so this is the thing that kills me with this. It's like Mitch Marner was here for nine years or was it 10, whatever it was. And he went to Vegas so far for three, four months. Became a centerman. And they've played him at center for like a month and a half. Yeah. We can't see it for a week. And we do this so much with the Leafs

where it's like, hey, Willie could play center? Could we just see it? If everyone thinks it's not going to work, could we see it? Let's try it and find out. And so we're asking this question with Scott Lotton. Can he play higher up in the lineup?

I don't know. We're 44, 45, 46 games in. Could we see? Can we find out? And we did, we've had these Tavares conversations with the, with the salary going from 11 to 4, would there be more flexibility to back off of them a little bit,

put them on the left wing, maybe drop them to the third line? Is there any signs that they want to do that? There's no signs. The wing thing is definitely interesting. Have it to take time to break. You know, can Lawton play the wing with Tavares and Nylander?

God, would that be fun? By the way, he has played there, and he's played very well there for like a few shifts. I just think that over these five years that we've done the show together, boys, we've screamed for them to look more balanced. And now they finally have four good centers and they're actually rolling four lines that have looked good. And we're like, we need it to be more heavy all of a sudden.

It's, I think the centers. We're looking at big picture, Sammy. When it's all said and done, is Tavaar is going to be legitimately your second line center and playing 20 minutes a night matching up against Sam Bennett? I think the only guy that's going to play 20 minutes tonight is Matthews, and they're going to kind of figure out the rest as they go. I mean, Waz played a ton of huge playoff games for the nights.

He's shown to be really responsible defensively. He's big. He's a playoff type player. Lotton, DeVaris. Third line. Sure. All day long. You know who's playing center for Tampa Bay now that points out?

Top line right now is Nick Paul, Gensel and Kutrov. You can try guys out of their element a little bit here as all, I think. we're looking for. But I... Okay. All right. It's just stemmed off of a breakaway where I think Tavares looks like maybe he's

doubting himself a little bit or going through maybe the longest stretch is a leaf where the production hasn't been there. That's all. Yeah. And maybe you do slide in guys in and out more and go to a hybrid

scenario. We just haven't seen it yet. Yeah. He had a, three-game points straight, last two games, no luck. What are the ice, like the, it just, you were mentioning, I don't know how many shows ago that was, that the ice time's kind of going down for Tavares and others of guys are starting to come up, but.

Tavarra's played 1430 last night. Yeah, that's, I mean, everybody was playing in the third period. They were just kind of rolling it. The Hill de Beast. Yeah, not a good night. Not a good night. Listen, great goal, always had bad nights. You know, you play enough good games and you earn the leeway to go,

wasn't his night. You know, the drops a stick on the one. You don't love how it looks from there. But the Genther one from distance, to win that road game on a back-to-back against a fast team, you need the outcome to be our goalie was incredible, and we got a couple bounces. The goalie was not incredible in that.

How come during my whole career, when I'm at that particular angle, Genther's at? Yeah. And I'm up against a big goalie. I see no light short side. No light. And I know it was a perfect spot, and I know he put it perfectly.

But all of that should be covered short side, though, right? If he stood like Ken Dryden, let's say he put his pads together and stood with his shoulder against the side of the net. I don't think from that angle there's any net. It's remarkable that there was any net at all. I think he could block the whole thing from that angle, just by standing up.

But then these guys who are unbelievably good shooters would just fire it on the other, when the goal like stands up straight, they're just going to fire on the other side. I'm not saying he should play like that. I'm saying that's an angle where he's big enough to just go, to shrug it. Yeah.

You're supposed to cover that first, the short side first. It is. But anyways, it has been brilliantly play shot. It's a tough environment for him going through a learning curve as a real NHL pro right now. So it's a one-off,

but it does lend to the reality that Stolars is now with the team and they're going to push Stolars, I'm sure, quietly behind the scenes as fast as they can to get it back in. By the way, last night was the most lopsided, even strength, expected goals between the teams. Utah 5.14, the least 1.7.

That was a massive swing. But anyway, sorry. Stolars coming back, that's interesting to hear. I am not sole. that he'll be is a he's definitely not an NHL starter for me and I'm not basing this on last night I've said this all year long but I've come around to the fact that he's a one of he can play in the NHL yes he's a he's a very good prospect so you know I don't blame them for want and Solars back who's basically a 920 every time he plays every season yeah I think this is just

a potential warning shot across the bow if you're like let's trade Stolar and have him be the second guy you lean on. It's just he's been really good here, okay? And there's been an excellent stretch. But just, I know you put out your sexy trade board today. I did. And I did have Stolars as a potential trade chip for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I did.

And last night is just a little reminder that this guy's still pretty raw and he's had some good games to the team. But Sam, this whole thing is like you don't have things to trade. You need to pretend he's something that's important. So you can trade, I think you trade him. I think. Who's that? Hildaby. You got to think about it for sure.

And you may be right. If the hard decision is that we can give up, we just signed Stolars to four years. We still have a wall at three years. There might not be any room for Hilderby. Maybe we sell him as one of the best. best goalie prospects out there. Yeah.

And then you trade Hilda B and the next game, the wall disappears for two months. You're right. You're right. And you're stuck with Ackymov and Stolars. But as I wrote in my article, beggars can't be choosers. Yeah, you are. And they are beggars to try to win right now.

But the argument that All Leaf Nation would be would say, stop being beggars. Just run it out there. Like, just play the games. On the next rebuild, we'll remember that. Yeah. To me, it's like they're trying to drive a car across the desert. And you have to choose which parts you're going to try to do it without. This lug nut over here, this random rod that I don't know things about cars.

Like, you're not going to get this car. They don't have all the parts. They cannot operate a full machine. How far can you go without which parts? And you have to make a decision at some point. Otherwise, you're saying sell this jalopy. Let's start over and build a new car. We're still trying to drive this one.

Did last night, albeit on a schedule's loss, remind you that the blue line still isn't good enough? No. Good enough to what? Win the cup? Of course, they're not good enough to win the cup. Win around? They're barely in a round.

They could 100% win around with their defense that they have right now. I'm with 100%. Okay. All right. But, two rounds? I'm in on Hamilt. I thought about it. I'm in on Dougie Hamilton.

Who wants to hear about it? I do. Me, please. Tell me. This is a team with no assets to trade. We just talked about trying to get rid of, you know, whatever you can here to get someone. Hamilton is the biggest ratio of low acquisition cost

to immediate talent upgrade that you can find out there. And yes, it's because it comes with warts and things you don't like, you know, namely the contract. However, and the play. They haven't had. they haven't had an offensive defenseman since I've been covering this team

I don't know, decade whatever, call it Jake Gardner, sure. You want Tyson Barry's name in there? Morgan Riley scored 20 goals once. Morgan Riley, I'm aware, but he's not a power play guy. He also was minus four last night. Yeah. I know.

I know. He was making progress. He is at this point not. You say Morgan Riley, yes, he's been a good offensive defenseman. This is different. You know, his ceiling versus when Hamilton's very good. So I just think your power play immediately gets better. I'm watching that power play.

last night in previous nights. It's not fixed. It's not, it's improved. But you are not going to have a top 10 power play in the NFL with Matthias Machelli being the number one puck toucher, ragging the puck up the ice, and Morgan Riley is your quarterback. Machelli and Riley cannot be the guys who touch the puck the most on your powerplay.

Dougie Hamilton can't. He can hit a puck. He can be a threat. He can make space for Matthews. He can make a pass. He's certain, and if you get him at 7, 725, and you LTIR, Tanev, LTR, Dakota Joshua, you have room.

It's no, what would it cost? Yarncrock? They just want this guy off the books. I'm not even joking. What would it cost? They just want him gone. Yeah. They're going to give him away?

Yes. Are they going to give them away, Kipper? Because if we're giving them away here. Okay, if you had your choice right now, would you, and you could convince Morgan Riley to go there and you could do the money even up, If they ate some, would you be fine with that? Well, I mean, how could the defensive downside be much worse? No offense to a guy who's been a great Maple Leaf.

But this year, I don't know, you said he's minus four last night, so I don't know, he's got to be minus 20 some on the year. He's been on for the most goals against at 5 and 5 in the NHL for the defenseman. That's a week or two ago when I looked at it. So I don't think the defensive is going to be much. I think there's more offensive upside there. Yeah. They can't just add that salary,

even if they ate $2 million. Yeah, I mean, you might have to throw Domi or Machelli or someone the other way, but... You mean their first and second line wingers? He can get up and down the ice. He can skate. He can shoot the puck.

He's a right-handed D. He's going to log 18 to 20 minutes a night. You know, if he's happy, he can be very good. I understand it's not going great. I get it. He's not quite Seth Jones. No. But he is a career that you could get more out of.

Is he 32? I don't think he's much older than that. Yeah, we're going to fine do this. 32, I think. 32. June 17th. There's only two more years in the deal after this. It's not crippling.

It's a risk. You have to take some risks with this group. So to me, I'm sold. Your perspective that I like the most is bringing in a quote-unquote talented hockey player that really could be a needle mover if it hits. There's a big could there. Might not. But the acquisition cost for a team that's lacking assets is one that would probably be more palatable

than a lot of the other difference makers in the market. We'll get into this, I guess, in our national hour, but Tom Fitzgerald, of course, who controls. Dougie Hamilton's future as of now as the general manager at a press conference. Everything's great. And you just wonder where he is on the value he sees in a Dougie Hamilton and a potential trade and what the price would be.

I can't get a feel of it right now, whether between grabbing something back or just getting him off the books. Yeah. But I tell you what, cap issue, they have cap issues. That's a big deal. I would believe he is trying to get rid of the whole thing. The next 20 plus million dollars, including a six or seven million dollar signing bonus that's coming up.

That's an advantage for the Leafs though. The Leafs don't care, but they can do that where other teams can't. And so you got to pay a little something more for that or take less back if we're doing that. That's a little bit of leverage for the loss. Yeah, that'll be interesting watch from here on end. Just wanted to point out that another really awesome night for Matthews last night,

where he was threatening the whole game in like every shift. Even in the third period of your down, he could have quit. I thought he actually was competing the whole game. You know what? Even under that loss, he's got the puck a lot more. And he's stripping the puck, a ton.

It's just the theory. that I think maybe if it was in Austin, somebody got to somebody and said, enough with the dump and chase. Interesting. Yeah. Enough. After Christmas, we're making plays over the blue line.

We're not dumping and chasing. Let the boys handle the puck a little here. Even under a tough loss last night, they had the puck way more. Austin had the puck way more. I think you might just look at your lineup and go, we're pretty small. And so on every line we got a guy who's, you know, 160 pounds. We don't forecheck.

I'm not seeing that automatic straight lines. I think a big part of his poor start to the season was too much of something he didn't like out of the team. That's funny. And the system. Which you don't love either. But I get it. So, I mean, that's fascinating. But, like, would I guess, would a conversation between a manager and the coach be like, hey,

if you guys keep dumping it in, you're going to be, I'm going to dump it. I'm going to dump you out of here. Yeah. Like, with that kind of conversation happen? I played with enough guys where if they don't buy in to what the coach, they'll just, I'm not saying they'll quit. I'm not saying they'll mail it in, but it's like, I, this is not my game. And it's going to look like it.

Yeah. But the overall responsibility for coach and team, the coach is to adjust to the roster, the roster to the team. The coach is allowed to go, okay. It's not built to play my way. Yeah. You know, I...

But they've changed. That's fascinating. No question. Before Christmas and after Christmas, they look like a different team handling the puck. And finding middle of the ice when they cross the blue line, not dumping and chasing.

This feels like even for you, Borny, who's very good at looking at looking at, up these scary stats. I don't understand any of the websites. But even for you, they're dump-in percentage since Christmas. I don't know if that's something you can look up. Yes,

that is attainable. All the analytics, especially the individual ones for Austin, have been like night and day. Yeah. It really has. It really, really has. Like Mike Kelly sent out a tweet yesterday

with like the stats and the possession numbers and the shots and the shot attempts. Just has the puck way more, I guess. It's good thing. That's happened a lot over Mike. career where I just see those star players keep coming out of the coach's office. And it's like, I'm going in there and I'm going to tell him, I'm going to tell him. You got to have some real cachet to go into the coach's office and tell him anything.

There's always four or five guys that have that. So that's the question. That's the question I would ask is if, for example, Austin Matthews went to Craig Brubham's like, hey, can we stop giving up the puck because we can never get it back? Would it be like, your line can do that? But Scottie Lawton, you're not carrying it in. Like, is it a different? I've asked that a lot myself.

Yeah? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's, that's totally common. Some coaches don't like that it's inconsistent between lines. Like if guys move lines or shuffled in game, but there's definitely guys who operate by different rules. But I think it should be. But Nick Waugh is a third line guy. McMahon.

They've got the skill to not necessarily have the. ability to gain a line and cut across at 90 degree angle and do a 360 and make plays. But they can not give up the puck on such a long dump in. You know, they can work it in six feet, eight feet along the walls and maintain control. They're skilled enough to do that. And I think we've seen that. They've won some good battles along the wall with puck possession that we, again, didn't see much in the first 30 games.

Totally. Last thing quickly before we go. Matthew's just talking about it. Big game tomorrow night. We're going to break it down a ton tomorrow, obviously. Going to Vegas, take on Mitch. But I want him to take it personal in that game. Like, I really do want him to look like he's got up or under his saddle.

Yeah, we got two days, two days to prep that one. Wednesday and Thursday. Well, no, today is Wednesday. Oh, yeah. And tomorrow was Thursday. Thursday. Okay. So I'm just mentioning it at the end of our first segment, but.

Any thoughts from either you guys on that one? Is it time? About a... About a personal... Yeah. Like Mitch left. You know, he's offered a contract. There's lots of stuff to win around it.

I don't know. I'm of the belief that this is going to kind of look and feel like any other game. That would not make people happy. Well, it's like, what's Mitch going to fight someone? No, it's not. Yeah. So it's going to.

The buildup will be much more outside the rank. with the media and the fan base, I'm sure. But I don't know. I think these guys are just built differently today. This is something that, well, I can go here, but Gunner, who has always got his tinfoil hat on, was yelling at me about in the summer when the least schedules are released. But does the NHL not like drama?

Like, how is your first Mitch Marner game a Thursday night in the, the middle of the week on the second half of a back-to-back. Like, how is the first Mitch Martiner game not hockey night in Canada on a Saturday night in Toronto? But how do they... It's a dumb league. It is a dumb league. Those days where they cared about that are long gone.

But they like rivalries and they like guys getting hammered from behind and not suspending them. They like that. But they don't like the rivalry of a fan base and a player. Like, it's just stupid. He can't even talk to the media. He's doing it. He's playing tonight.

I don't know. They play tomorrow. I think it's a stretch to assume that this is a marquee game for the NHL to do anything with. Are you nuts? It's huge in this market. Absolutely. It's huge. Yeah.

You can't play that game if you're the league. It's, you look after your winter classics and, of course, some signature games for ESPN or TNT. And I think the teams to get, to put in some requests of important nights for them. We're looked after with Hockey Night in Canada on Saturday nights. They get, they, they, they go through it pretty well with Marquis, Saturday nights when they can. And is Vegas here for a Saturday night?

Friday night. Friday night. Second half of back to back. No media. That one's weird. Friday. It's absurd. Mitch Marner, one of the most high profile players on the highest profile team with a bit of a messy exit. How do you not put that first game back on hockey night in Canada Saturday night, 7 p.m. Toronto, Ontario.

It's absurd. It's absurd. Do we get it for regional? That don't make no. Do you and I get to do a Vegas game or no? Friday night? No. No.

No. I don't think so. Oh, anyways. All right, we can go. I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing tonight. Don't ask me these questions. No hockey. What do we got, Sammy, after the break?

Got a little mailbag action. Oh, yeah. The mail bag. Sammy's mail bag. You're not going to want to miss that. When we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Got mail. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk,

the hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kipper is Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee. It's Leifauer edition. Real Kippur and Born show.

Four games on tap tonight, including our Scotia Bank Wednesday Night Hockey. Where are very own Justin Bourne will be on the panel tonight. It's the Battle of the Eastern Bottom Featers tonight, Rangers in Ottawa. Yep. I'm going to show you a little bit about Ottawa, second league and faceoff. percentage got some tricks to show you. So during the pregame, you're, you're mandated to drop in real Kippenbornborn.

I don't know how you're going to do it, where you're going to do it, but you got, you got to mention the show. I accept this assignment. I think that's fair. Free, free commercial. Get it in there. And a Sammy. And a Sammy mentioned.

I'm good. I think people have probably taken hearing about and from me. Ethan, if you're the Marner camp, how pissed would you be on a scale of 1 to 10 about the athletic saying he does not feel at home yet? It's from Ethan on Twitter. I thought Marner said that he didn't... That's what I meant.

Would they be upset by that, the way that... Vegas. No, no, Marner, he said the Marner camp, so I guess his age and her people... I thought that article, so that article in the athletic, Jonas Siegel wrote... Yes. On Mitch Marner's time so far in Vegas,

I thought it was really fair, but also gave a good... sense for the challenges and somewhere you're new after you've been somewhere else for a long time. And Mitch himself, I think, summarized some of the, it's not, as usual, not being around friends and family. And that's, I don't think they said it.

The player said it. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think it's, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. With the article. With, or the sentiment. With Mitch saying that I'm not, I don't feel quite at, at home yet. Mm-hmm. Just from the physical thing, there's also the mental thing, too.

of coming from a team where often you were let's face it, the most important player, penalty kill first and last shift of every period top score quarterback the power play

probably and you look around and there's stone, there's Eichel, there's a hurdle, there's like... Barbership, Dorfay. There's a ton here. I'm not even, I don't even think he kills penalties anymore He doesn't.

How does he go from... What? Yeah, doesn't kill penalties. How do you go from one of the best penalty killers in the league to not doing it at all? Ooh. The shifts are down per game. His shifts are down per game. And his overall minutes are down.

So this is a new adjustment to him. Mm-hmm. And I don't even think he's picked up any rhythm. You know, again, I go back to... There were times here where they were so... careful about guys emotional whatever that had he just been treated like a normal player here he would be more accustomed to that where you play bad you don't play you know what i mean like end of the game sorry tonight wasn't your night we're going to go with the third liner who was

red hot it never happened here emotional damage no accountability so i'm sure it is different there where they're moving them around a little bit and trying to find a spots and i read that article uh bruce cassidy had a lot of comments about they're trying to figure out where he likes the puck and how to get him the touches he needs. So all of this is still trying to get figured out, and he's still on pace for 90 plus points. Think about that for a second. Yeah.

I mean, you know, if he ever found a comfort zone or found that rhythm that we're talking about, like what's the upside moving forward? I think he's a point per game. No, he's a 100 point guy. He's a 90 to 100. He is a 100 point guy, and he averaged per game over 100 points

every year for the Leafs, except for the years he probably got hurt. I know what he is. I'm saying this year he's not. No, no. This year he's at, you know, he'll end up with 80 or 90 on the pace that he's on now. It's for year. And that's with all these lower minutes. But you know, this is

part of, it was part of the thing here that just there's other good players and other people get opportunities and that's what it's like being on a team. And sometimes here it was just like, regardless of what happens, here you go. And that's yeah, but that's, Vegas has way more depth than Toronto.

Like, you needed him every game. Exactly. It wasn't like you were going to be like, hey, let's throw out Andre Kasha to close this game out. No, I disagree. There was lots of times where Andre Kasha should have gone, where these guys were like, and I'm not saying that about Mitch.

I'm saying that about Mitch. You lose with Kasha, my friend. You just lose. You like Olympian to you guys. You would. But the whole problem was that these guys just knew, no matter what they did, that they would get the tab.

And you never set the message that like you have to play well to earn the minutes in those spots. So I mean, they lost anyway. So I don't think we can sit here today. He's got a great job. He's got what? The article really stipulated like he's got one, two people asking him questions. It's like that in itself. Fox News 5.

Fox News 5. Tonight at 5, Marner. And the guy's got to look at his nameplate before he starts asking the question. That's the choice he made, right? He wanted that. Yeah. Oh, no, I think he's loving that part. Yeah.

Right? I don't. So Ryan Getslav was on the other day on what... With reach. With a boy reach here. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, and he made a comment about how hard it is to play in Toronto.

Oh, yeah. I mean, what an original thing that is. I haven't heard that from anybody. I do think that it is a... Every market has pros and cons. It's a legitimate con. Yeah. It's a tough market.

market to play. And people will be like, ah, the media's not that hard harm. It's not that they're hard on them. There's just the volume is volumy. It's all in how you take it. This one comes in from our YouTube chat. Johnny Harris says, when the playoffs hit and the Leafs have to be cap compliant,

could they have Hilderby as a backup and put Stolar's as a non-roster and allocate the cap differently to skaters? It's a really good question. The way the playoff salary cap works, you can be, you know, you have to, you have to be cap compliant each night. And this is assuming they make the playoffs, which I'm not convinced

of. You have to be cap compliant each night. So let's say you think wool and Stolars are your two best goleys and you want them to start. You could have Hildo B as your backup every night on the bench and spend more money at other spots, you know, which is interesting. Then all right, wool is a bad night. Stolars and Hildo B. But if you, but the next night, if you want to go back to Stolars, then you got to take out $3 million from your salary up top. Well, you just take the other goalie. Like you take wool out and it's, Hildebe is always the backup. Because Stollers and Wall make fairly similar amounts,

you could toggle the two of them, so neither ever backs up. Or you could trade one of them. You could. I'm just saying that this question is a pretty insightful way to spend some extra money, get around the cap a little bit. Yep.

A little bit. A touch. This is from Paul saying, is Thursday's game the tipping point for if we're back or not? I don't look at it. I don't look at it. as a one

Vegas game thing. I want to go past Vegas. I want to go to Winnipeg. I want to go to early next week. Minnesota next Monday. Minnesota. And then who's after Minnesota? There's another tough one too. Vegas and Colorado again. Vegas and Colorado. What does it look like?

What does it look like after all those games? I... They're going to need more Joseph Wall kind of magic. There's a chance it's a bloodbath. The spinole. The barometer for me is if they're back or not, is if they get through this eight-game stretch here where... Still around playoffs?

If they're in after... Because, I mean, we'll come in on that Monday after the 26th, the 26th, after they play against Colorado at 1.30 on that Sunday afternoon. If we come back from that day and they're in the playoffs, I will 100% say they're back. That's so half-ass of you... Why? Oh, if they...

Yeah. If they win the cup, I'll say they're good. If they survive this stretch, this stretch is their season. Yeah, there'll be 60-some games in, coward. You can't make a call. You've got to make a call before then. 50-some games in. I'm being dramatic.

So you'll be through most of the season at that point. You need to make a call. Vegas, Jets, Wild, Red Wings, Vegas, Colorado. That's the schedule. Oh, my gosh. If they get through that and they're in the playoffs, they're back. That is. And if they're, it's brutal.

It's brutal. And by the way, the next game, the 27th, the Red Hot Sabres on the Tuesday night. It is funny because we cut that off. In the mix, too. Yeah, I said Detroit. Yeah, the Wednesday night.

Okay. We cut it off as like the challenging games. But after that, I think it's like Buffalo. The Islanders. No, no. Seattle, Vancouver. It eases up a touch. I'm nervous about their game Saturday in Winnipeg.

Yeah, Winnipeg all of a sudden hot now. They've won three in a row. It's like the Jets. They got a little life here. And I got to be honest, the Jets feel like a team that aren't as bad as their record. That has like a push in the, here leading up to the deadline.

So, um, uh, I would just quickly here. I guess a couple, okay, here we go. Excluding the,

excluding the exhausted effort from last night, scheduled loss, top to bottom, is this the most balanced forward group the Leafs have had in this era? Maybe outside of 18, 19, where they had seven players of 20 goals and nine with at least 16.

That's from Lees Rite along. I'll just say it's tough to know before trade deadline. Because after. Oh, how could you see that? How could you say that? Let me finish. the answer. Before trade deadline, you haven't had the chance. When they went into playoffs the year

they beat Tampa Bay, they had their fourth line was Sam Lafferty, Nolachari. I forget who else they had, but Ryan O'Reilly was there that year. Curfoot was a depth guy for them. Like, they had really good depth. If you added two guys to this team, like you might at the deadline, it might look like that. Gustafsson, the defense then. That's right, too. scored a goal in one of those Panther playoff games. Did they have Edmondson one year or two? They did.

They had Edmondson the year they lost in seven in overtime to the Boston Bruins. Every year at the deadline they've added a D-Man. It's been Lubbushkin, Tanev, McCabe, Edmondson, Gustafson, D, D, D, D, D, D, D, D. And now it's going to be D-Ugly Hamilton. Yeah.

Forney has. I still, I have question marks for sure. and it's been a great run so far to bring back the interest but two and a half three weeks ago people wanted max domey out mitchellie couldn't play easton count should be in the minors uh mcman's lacks consistency and now it's a four million dollar player and max is a legitimate number one winger for austin max is a legitimate number one winger for austin max Matthews and Machelli's great on the power play. It's like there's, it's not they were that bad and it's not that they're that great.

We got to find out where they are. You started Bobby McMahon 4 million. You're acting like that's just a conversation that came out there. People out there talking about this. That was you, man. You see how many articles are out there now on Bobby McMahon, the athletic. I noticed. Everybody's on the, yeah, he's a $4 million player.

I wonder they got that idea. threw that out about what a week and a half ago? I also have an article on sports ad dot CA right now. Ten thoughts on the Leafs. You can go through that and one of them is should they resigned Bobby McMahon as well as same question about Bob. And you said? Yeah, I did say yeah. Four million, four years?

Sure. I think he'll have no problem getting it on the open market. I just don't think he's the third fastest player in the league. I don't think he's going to suddenly get terribly slow. He can shoot it. He's a depth guy. Four mil is tolerable. Caps going up.

Speaking of fast. Mike Madano International. Whoa. Mike Madano, Hall of Famer, who's about to get a bus token past him. What? Pat Cain. Oh.

He's driving the bus and Zoom. Pat Cain's going to flip him a bus token and pass right on bio. Mike Madano and Jody Shelley as well. We'll figure out what's going on in Columbus as they got a new head coach. Plenty more.

on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We'll get a coffee, go to the bathroom, but come back.