Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: A Test Against the Avalanche

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' win over the Vancouver Canucks over the weekend to extend their point streak to nine games. They discuss the recent winning stretch before looking to the test ahead, which kicks off with another measuring stick match against Colorado on Monday. Then, they chat about Dougie Hamilton's availability and whether the Leafs should be sending offers for the Devils' distressed asset. Later, the guys weigh in on Matias Maccelli overtaking John Tavares' spot on the top power play unit and Anthony Stolarz's looming return before welcoming in former NHLer and Avs analyst John-Michael Liles (30:50) to help tee up Toronto's matchup against Nathan MacKinnon, Cale Makar, and the Avalanche. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam react to the Columbus Blue Jackets firing head coach Dean Evason and hiring Rick Bowness.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going. Start of the week, Real Kipprin-Born. At Kiparillo's Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, sporting a Buffalo Bills cap today. You good with that? Sammy. Yeah, I chose to put it on my head and came in here, so I'm good with it. Yeah, I chose after a big win, too. Coincidence?

I think not. No, 100%. Not coincidence, but circumstance. I don't, I just like the bills. I'm not like a die-hard fan, but I like. like the bills. It's a beautiful hat. I don't know what to tell you.

We have technical directors, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo, and of course, assistant producer, Ethan Zaja Gabor. Yes, yes. We are live on SportsNet 360, Sportsnet 590,

the fan in Toronto and streaming, always on Sportsnet Plus. If you miss our show, catch it on Spotify, Apple Podcast. And while you're watching on YouTube, give us a little thumbs up. All right, boys. The buildup,

the last nine games was all to make. measure up against a very good Colorado Avalanche. Did Saturday night do it for you in terms of if they're ever going to be ready to match what they've got against the very best, then let's do it tonight. Well, all you can do is beat who you play. The teams they've played for a while now haven't been awesome, but they have beat them, right?

They beat the Canucks, the Flyers, the Panthers, the Islanders, sorry, not the Panthers. Panthers, Islanders, Islanders, Jets, you know, they're devils. These teams are not awesome, but they have done a job. They're not even playoff teams. They're not even,

but they're the teams they've played, Kipp, and they've beat them. No, no, for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And so I'm just saying that they're in a good spot here. If you're going to go into this stretch against all the good teams,

we're not going to discount all those previous games, and say, hey, they put themselves in a position where they're back in the fight here. No, we know that the league isn't strong enough. Rosters, with the exception of Colorado and Dallas, and maybe two or three more teams, mid-HL right now. A lot of them can lose on any given night

that they're not ready. And for the Leafs, the last nine games where they're what, 7-0 and 2, they've showed that they're prepared, they're ready, they're not giving games away. No, and you know what? That was the first time in a while where it's like, all right, they're playing a not very good team

at home on a Saturday night. Can you just beat them? Just go beat the brakes off and make it easy. And it was 3-0 at the end of the first period. And in that period, Vancouver had three power plays, maybe four. Four power plays, at least led three-nothing. Two too many. Right.

Three goals on six shots. Yeah. Yeah. That's just. I mean, say what you will. That's Demko. It's a breakaway to Willie. It's a backdoor tap into Machelli.

I don't remember what the other one was, but, you know, the other one is a, there's a Tavares breakaway in there. Like, you say it's Demko. I think that one might have been on. That was on Lincoln. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know.

Tough for me to look at Demko and go those. Went through his logo or anything. It was William Nealander at the end of the period where Lorenz set him up with the cross-ice pass and he turned in it. All right. Let's get Craig Barubi's thoughts on Saturday night. The penalty kill was really good.

Had to be early. Obviously, with the penalties in the first period. You know, our goalie, it was solid. And power play, you know, got us an early goal. So special teams are good. Overall effort was, you know, it was a good win. I think that for me has been the biggest key

to the turnaround in general, just special teams. And I think what this clip is, I mean, what this sort of stretch has shown me, clearly they've played some bad teams. I'm not going to sit here and deny that they haven't played some bad teams,

but that they may not have been just in this spot where they are in the standings if they even had a half decent power play. Like I just, I can't remember. how many times we came in here after a game and be like they had a big third period power play in a close game they couldn't convert and it just killed them game after game and now over this stretch I think they've been the best of the league since both since since the game

before Christmas power play and penalty killing yeah yeah right since after Christmas has been number one in both categories yeah the PK has been number one since yeah November PK is just third overall in general the PK has been pretty good all year but I'm really we looked at this stretch of hockey before the next stretch and said that they've really got to make some hay here because it's a big schedule coming up and when you look at it, they couldn't have done better. I mean, I guess they could have got two more points than they did,

but 16 of a possible 18 heading into the biggest stretcher season, you got to give them credit. I didn't, none of us would be sitting here today thinking they had this in them, correct? Yes, you know, and it's crazy too because all the other teams in the Atlantic around them have been winning concurrent basically. But there is a bit of a,

a tearing happening in the conference. I don't know if we're able to post the standings, but New Jersey, yeah, here you go. So look at the Devils in seven there. The Rangers centers, there's a three-point gap there where those guys are starting to trail the chase group, you know? Look at the Sabres.

The Leafs have stayed in the fight. Look at the Sabres. Good for them. It's about time. But, again, three-game losing streak away from being in the pile of dust. Dust. Yeah, it's not.

you know, hyperbole? Yeah. Always struggle with that one. To say that this is their season. Even this four-game road trip. They're playing in Colorado, which is, I mean, I put this in, this avalanche have earned a point in all 21 home games this season going 19 0 and 2. They look to become the seventh team to have a 22-game point streak at home to start a season.

And the avalanche have won 17 straight home games, one shy of matching their single-season franchise record. So pretty good team at home. lost in regulation at home at home they are 19 oh and two at home so you're in tough so you start with that you go to utah you go to vagus which with all the stuff kind of surrounding that and then you're in winnipeg no matter how bad they are it's always a tough building to play for the leaps i feel like this four game not even the games after it yeah start with this week is make a break back to back colorado utah tell me what's making tell me what's break because i think five out of eight

would be good. You're really good. Still in the fight. Totally. Out of eight points. So that's... The next four games. Okay.

I'm just doing the math. Okay. Two wins. Two wins. Two and one and one. Yeah. Is that okay? Yes.

It is. Six would be unheard of. You can't get two points. You know, like I feel like if you get two points out of these four games. Can't do three either out of eight. Really splitting hairs. Okay. Yeah.

I don't think it's splitting hairs. No. Three out of eight would be a, a setback, I think. Yeah. I mean, you would lose ground, obviously, to the, to the field at that point. So before, I guess we dive into the game tonight, was there anything from Saturday that you like, Kip,

or anything that you could pull out of that game, other than the Canucks or what the hell happened to them? Yeah, for me, Carlo had a presence. Again, I, you know, it's Vancouver, but he physically looked a lot more confident in me. He stepped up, ran a few guys, ticked some guys on. off.

Yeah. Yeah, good. Maybe whatever was ailing him with his ankle or is the metal in his foot, whatever the case was, he got a reset here. And he's going to have to carry that look into Colorado tonight. Yeah. There's just, again, no, no TANF. And you're just wondering now, when does that kind of catch up to them a little bit?

but Carlo to me was a big plus Saturday night. Yeah, I mean, Carlo OEL Stetcher on your right side, you know, it's not anything that you're, it's not bad. It's not amazing, it's not bad. Okay. Which is nice. We got Bruvi on Brandon Carlo. Clip.

You know, having Brandon Carlo back has been a big, big, big help. I mean, what he does back there in a PK and just defending and being the big body is, I thought he had a real solid game tonight and he's been solid since he's been back. Me and Bunkis talked about this on Saturday night after the game, but this is one of the reasons that being forthcoming with injuries would be so much more helpful to the players because I think it's pretty fair to say that

Brandon Carlo at the start of this year where we were coming in here every day being like, oh my God, what has happened to Brandon Carlo? Was very injured. Significantly hampered. infected plate in his, what, ankle that he had? It was just not a good situation. And if they just come out and be like, yeah, he's got to get surgery on his infected

plate, we're like, oh, okay. Yeah, that justifies the whole first month. And then they hide it and hide it and hide it. And then it's like, oh, yeah, he looks like a guy that you would trade a pick for. What a concept. Why did they hide this? Does that mean that we can throw away those theories of, does he like the game anymore? Does he even, do they need to anybody?

Anybody. When there's an information vacuum, people fill it with guesses. Whatever, yes. Question mark. Okay. He looks disinterested. He looks this. He looks that.

No, he's injured. And this is what it is. Maybe he's brutally hampered by an ankle plate. A very legitimate concern. We get it. That would be really good news. If he's able to shore up that pair with Riley, Riley minus whatever he was, pre Carlo minus 11, 12, 13.

I don't know what the number was, but he's plus since Carlo's been back. So that's a number. Plenty to get into, but maybe this is a good window with Carlo playing well that the Leafs still might be looking to find another right-handed D. Saturday night, Elliot Friedman. Now we're talking. Dougie Hamilton available. Does it make any sense for you for the Leafs to go get Dougie Hamilton? I mean, the ROM is beautiful.

So nice museums here. You know, here's, so I've had the conversation with myself multiple times. The initial conversation was this kind of solves everyone's problems where Dougie Hamilton is a high earning guy that isn't performing for the devils. But he is a better offensive defenseman than Morgan Riley. He could run the power play. You know, he's got this upside that Riley doesn't have. For the devils, you get lower.

AV, you get a guy who's a little bit more consistent with effort. No, no, no, no. This is just getting Hamilton. This isn't giving up Morgan Riley to get him. How has that happened math-wise? Sorry, I just assumed it would have to be for another right the out. Tannav's. You write Tanov off.

Oh. So take their problem on, basically. Yep. So here's the concern. You're trying to win this year, right? When you say write them off, you mean LTIR is done for the year, matter what. Like even if the playoffs started,

he was able to come back, you maybe try to patch together people in the past box. If it's a long shot on TANF coming back and you want to hold onto a spot, then you could try to massage you between now and the trade deadline if it's looking good. But in the meantime, you bring in Hamilton. He checks off a few boxes, including what J.B. just said. And the number one thing is he can get up and down the ice and alleviate a lot of that stuff off

of Morgan. But you're not giving up Morgan. You're finding a way to say, listen, Jersey, you don't like them. You want to get rid of them. We'll take them off. You may have to eat a little bit. Yeah. Would you take them? So what's 10 of that? Five plus five and a half? Yeah. You look that up, Sam. I think it's four, I think it's less than that. Four, five, four, five, four, six. What do you think? I don't think it is four, five. Four five. Okay. So what did Seth Jones? What did they take off, Seth Jones, two million, Chicago, when Florida took him? Yeah, take two million? Three would be nice.

Three would be real nice. Three would be nice. I will say, you know, in looking into Dougie a little bit today, after having those conversations with myself, it ain't pretty. Like he's, you know, turns the puck over at a rate that is astonishingly high. You know, I think at times people accuse him of maybe, not the disinterest, but like just feels like there's so much more there. I don't think.

He had a window. there, it was going pretty well. Yeah. It's a huge risk. High upside guy for sure. It is a huge risk. I'm with you. I'm not saying it's the answer.

I'm just throwing it out there. It solves some of your problems in the short term. Creates other problems. He's got two years left as well. Two more after this? Yes, two more after this at nine. Golly. And that number needs to come down significantly for the Leafs.

Two questions that I have. Okay. First one. Do you think there's interest from the lease? Okay. Let's keep in mind, the current general manager of the Toronto Maple Leaf's Red Tree Living already traded him once.

What was that for? Hanifant? No. I think he went to Carolina. Yeah. Yeah, okay. For Hanifton. For Hanifin.

Right. Hold, let me double check that. Make sure that's true. So. Okay. Probably not then. I Probably, probably not.

All right. Let's not spend too much time on it because I don't think it's good. That you sold me alone that there's no way tree living is suddenly going to be like, you know, we can solve our problems back there. The guy I didn't like when he was in his prime. Traded from Calgary with Michael Furland and Adam Fox to Carolina for Elias Lindholm and Noah Hannafin. What a monster trade. That is a hockey move.

Keep in mind, you didn't know that Adam Fox was Adam Fox. Fox at that time. You thought he was going to be good. You knew he was going to be... He just wouldn't sign that. He just wouldn't, yeah. There was just no chance he was going to sign. And he wanted to go to New York.

Yeah. Allianz, Lindholm was great for the flames. He was really good for the flames. Okay. But, and the second question that I did have, but maybe it's just, like, would he, he has a 10 team? Would the least be on that?

Feels like the least be on that. My understanding is that he... wants to be east coast-ish. Okay. And I think Elliot mentioned this maybe on Saturday night. Sharks tried to trade for him. Yeah, the sharks, he poo-pooed the sharks. That's not east at all.

That's far west. Very west. Yeah. I'm told, yes, he would definitely entertain Toronto. Wow. You know, it would be fun. I got to say that. It would be really fun because I've watched the Leafs like you guys have for a lot of years

without someone who could just shoot one in the net from the back end. He brings an element for sure, and I'd be lying to both you boys if I haven't thought about this a lot. Ever since I saw it, was that Friday night that that came out or Friday when he was Healthy Scratch Saturday, whatever. Ever since I've seen that, I've been thinking about it a lot. Jersey plays tonight?

They do. He's going to play, I think. He's going to play. Yeah, I don't think now. Petty messaging. Now that this thing is blown up, I'm not sure Fitzgerald and Keith can really keep them on the sidelines until a trade.

You got to, if someone's interested in him, you got to, you got to play him, you got to show me something. Who do they play, Jersey? Not only do they play, they play Quinn. Yeah. They get starched by Quinn. He gets four apples. That may be.

With the other Hughes brothers. I think there's a good chance you're going to see Hamilton back in the lineup. Interesting. Tonight. Okay. That's interesting stuff. Keep an eye on that. Leafs line up tonight.

McMahon's still on the fourth line. Nise Machelli, or sorry, Nyes, Matthews, Domi, Machelli, Tavares, Nielander. Cowan, Waugh, and Robertson. They've been pretty good, Kip. Yeah, they have.

You know, they seem to me like the premier line can handle bad teams. Let's see it against a good one. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. Like not a ton of size or muscle or anything like that. I guess Wa is large, but he's not, you know,

crazy man or anything. So interested to see how they fare over this next little stretch. Machelli and Willie seem to have real chemistry for me. Yeah, that was what I wanted to ask you guys. Your thoughts on the choice that the coaching staff made to take John Tavares off the top power play unit to leave Micelli there. The choice basically, because it was Nize and Tavares played together

all years to start on the power play. Yeah. Did you guys? Go ahead. Yeah, I think, I think Machelli adds a little bit more of a feel of, outside of that six feet radius of the blue paint. Sometimes I think you can get crowded there for John Nyes. Totally.

And I like, I like the different feel of Machelli out there opening it up. They could have had a number of primary assist to one another. Like, Willie did hit him for the one on the back door, but they looked for each other a lot, I thought. And they seem to enjoy having them there. I wonder if you're Steve Sullivan. You're like, look, you can't have everyone be a shooter. Like, we just need someone who can distribute out there.

And Machelli looking a little bit more confident. Again, is he a guy that can do it against the not very good teams? I don't know, but he's looked pretty good. I just think the coaching staff deserves some credit for making what is probably a really having a pretty hard conversation with John DeVars. Because I can't imagine there have been many games. in his entire life where he has been on the top power play unit. Isn't these hard conversations, like, shouldn't they have happened already?

Shouldn't they have been part of that you're going from $11 to $3.5 million, and this is what you can kind of expect? Sure. So I'm sure. Shouldn't have a real big problem with it. Yeah, but they played them on the top unit for 45 games already, Kipper, or however many games they've played. I still think it's a hard one.

And they sucked for like 70% of them. I think that's the easy sell. like look you know and I know it's not been working did you see him go out for the the draw no oh yeah he went out for the draw and then they made him change well because he did he forgot I guess that he wasn't on the top unit and he had to do the skate of shame back to the bench

no yeah oh I'm glad I didn't notice that yeah uh simmer brought it up and I was like oh god that's tough understandable listen John is a competitor he

he's gotten his points his whole career somehow some way he's going to end up with 60 or 70 points. From here on end, it just, you got to get in the playoffs. You got to be behind the team. You got to be behind the team on whatever they think is best at times. You got to suck it up. If you wanted to be this guy that played 19 minutes a night and got power play time, there's UFA for you.

No, I do think that if you're Tavares now, the one thing you need to do for your career. career, even personally, is have team success. And I'm hopeful that he's willing to put everything. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Yep. I just think it was. Do you want to hear about Machelli on the power play from the coach?

Yeah, let's do it. All right. Let's have clip two from Bruy. He's got a lot of composure with the puck and makes a lot of plays. He does a great job on entries on the power play and just handling the puck on the half wall and making good plays. So, yeah, it was a great goal, great read by Willie to see him there. and he fed him.

So he's played, he's been playing really well. Machelli, obviously confidence is a big thing and he's got a lot of confidence right now with the puck. Good to hear after the early, you know,

nine game scratch run he had or whatever. I like that word composure. Like it just feels like he's making the, he's not rushing it. When it was bad, it felt like they're rushing everything. Turnovers. Turnovers and rush.

Keep us closer. Lots of turnovers. And you, You got to live with them with these guys. You do. To some extent. To some extent. There's definitely a limit to it, but yeah.

You're right. There's a limit to it. And it helps when you've got 3-0-0 leads when they do happen. I know you're playing with other good players who can make plays with you. It helps a lot. I know we're in the lease hour and we'll in Vancouver in the next hour. But what the hell happened to the Canox Boys? I don't have to say, man, a team.

It's just, there's double. clutching every puck, zero confidence. But they're just, all their good players don't play there anymore. Yeah. You just feel like it's like, we suck. It's like a year ago. You're watching.

William had a tough night, I thought. You can see it with him, but it's just, it's so raw. Yeah. So raw and he's playing top pair of minutes or whatever. It's just not going to be great. Leafs 6, 10, and 2 on the road. They're the best team in the NHL at home, going on the road to Colorado.

I wanted to bring this up just because Sam, I was talking to you about it a little bit pregame. They play at altitude in Denver. They're going there and, you know, I played there in college, and I'm sure you played in Denver at times. Like, it is genuinely different. Like, your lungs burn out way quicker. You're like, I have no gas.

Really? Yeah, it's a very... It's weird. It's weird. It's like you're in an oxygen tank, and it's like you got nothing to... Nothing's coming in your lungs. Yeah.

Just like, I've taken 10 hard strides and I'm cooked. I was telling Sam before the game our trainer, used to take the rookie's helmets and make them all a size smaller and just say at all altitude, your head swells and just said, just get skating for a while. And once you get your blood flowing, your head will go back to normal size, whatever. So the rookies, the entire practice, we're wearing these like helmets squeezed on, just red stripes across her heads. Headaches all night, lost 10-0.

Good job there, trainer. That's actually hilarious. Shout out P.D. Robertson. Oh, that's funny. So do you think that they're, strategy with that in mind. He's like, let's build the fastest team that's ever lived. Great point. Should be.

Should be a part of it. Like that top line when you watch them play, it's the Natchez and McKinnon together should not be allowed. No. Both both those guys. Do you want to hear some thoughts on Nathan McKin? Yeah. Let's do we also think.

Playing on with the altitude first from Craig Ruby. No, for sure. I mean, it's, you come in here. It's, you know, obviously the altitudes, it affects you. And, you know, you've got to keep your shift short as quick. You know, you can't overextend your shift. So it's important, you know, you're out there for a bit. And maybe you think you've got an opportunity to go in forward check again

or getting the offensive zone. That's the time to change. It's really, it boils down to be in discipline tonight and your line changes and your shift length. And they're great at line changes lately. Oh. But it's one thing, too. It bugs you.

Guys, him, insane. I never know who you blame. No, we disagree on it. No. Or you guys flip flop. It's the coach. Ultimately, it's the coach's fault. You're not controlling it.

So I don't know. Do you need me to point a finger or responsibility? Coach is, you're the bench boss. You got to have them. And I'm on the other side of it, where it's like, you know, you tell a line, which line is going. And if those guys mess it up, they're the dummies. We do not agree. this is the one thing that could come back and bite them here is are they are they disciplined are they ready

yeah you know it didn't look like it in terms of the the changes some of the changes that we've seen over the years with the lack of striding to the bench like it's a pet peeve of mine but if i see that i i go squarely on as a coach i would i just it's got to be an automatic good line changes coming hard to the bench. You know what really grinds my guess? You know, it's not even going hard to the bench. It's just keep skating. Keep taking strides.

I don't care if you're like sprinting. You just can't stop skating. Yeah. Continue moving your legs. Saturday night. Like they, Craig Simpson showed it on a replay. They played with six.

Everyone's open. Yeah, Simmer said he's like, I thought it was a guy, I wanted to many guys open. The worst I've ever seen was, when I played for the Leafs and Mike Craig came to the bench and said, we've got too many men on the ice and then

he kept skating by it. That didn't have. No, no, I'm serious. You guys, too many out here. Yeah, but I'm not coming off, but like anyone else, tell anyone else to come off. We're like, Craigor. You're the closest to the bench.

Jump off the bikes. That is so far. I think you have to scratch the guy after that. You have to be like, look, you just need to sit one out for dumbness. That's unreal. Count of dumbness. I thought it was maybe because they jumbled up the lines and everybody just forgot who's lines.

I mean, it's not an excuse, but it just... It looked to me like both wingers weren't sure who they were taking. And they both jumped. Jump for the same guy. Which on the bench, you know, you just go, every single shift, you're the left winger, left wing or left wing on there, so you just say, I got to say his name. I got you.

You do that. Every single shift your whole career. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's, you just, for clarity's sake, Not hard. Do you think they do that? Probably not. But did you?

Yeah, I did. I mean, we were pretty much everywhere our player. Coaches had us do that. Even if you're, you know, every shift you're up. I got whoever, you know, even though it's the same guy, every shift. Yeah. It's not, you know, pretty common. Yeah. I mean, and if it's not, it should be. I got this guy. I got this guy. Yeah. Just get the clarity. It's not hard.

Constantly. Yeah, this has driven you insane the entire time we've done the show together. Geper is that you hate bad line changes. Oh, Oatsy. Oatsy came on. highlighted the Matthews change when we did a show. Yeah. Remember Oatsy came on one time? He's like, bad line changes kill you. And he like did this whole thing about how good line changed.

No, it's funny, though. Coaches do care because like Sheldon and Babs had this thing about Babs wanted to get them diving in the bench. That was his big thing. Three quarter ice. Get them diving in the bench. And Keith had a whole thing about that too. And I don't know. I should probably mention Joseph Wall.

Shut out on Saturday going back in there tonight. Solars practicing too. Yeah? We can play. Yeah. We'll play the clip about the. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on, before you play anything.

Devils need a goalie in the Hamilton trade. Is that our story? Oh, is that what you were thinking the whole time? Listen. Da! That's what he was thinking the whole time. The canvas is blank. Paint.

Paint, my friend. Paint. Paint. Bob Ross over here. He had some ideas. I heard some things. That hell if Bob does it. I mean, I'd be a hell of a lot happier

to get Dougie Hamilton back. and Jacob Markstrom, that's for sure. Let's listen to Craig Bruby. Clip 11 on Stolar is returning. Well, he's, I don't have a date, like, targeted, but he's on this trip so he can get time with us and be around us and get practice time with us. So that's good, and I think, you know,

he's getting, you know, I think he's getting pretty close. Just needs the reps, needs the conditioning, that sort of thing, you know. Do I think he will be? There's a chance. Yeah. Okay. And then we're looking at a three-headed monster in net.

No, we're not. I don't know how many times they're having to say this. Heldaby is waiver exempt. He will be the starting goalie for the Marley. He's still a part of the store. That's not what I'm talking about. He's a three-headed when another one gets hurt. I'm talking about who leaves.

You have. Hildaby. To down the gardener. No, no, that, his point is someone will get traded if there's three. Strong. In the summer, yeah. Got no assets now, kid. I'm not sure.

I want to go back to Wall and Stolars right now. Okay. There is definite concerns. This guy has come in and made believers out of everybody Hildaby. I get it. I totally get it. I'm not sure, like, Stolars and Wall is a better, gives you a better chance to make the playoffs

than Hilda be and somebody else. Listen, you might. be wrong. But Stollards... That's the three-headed monster I'm talking about. Oh, okay. Hold on. Say that again. We should break.

What? I'm saying, you think it's just a foregone conclusion that Hildaby goes back to the Marley's? I do, yeah. I don't. That's what I'm saying. But do you...

Okay. So how long does Stollers have to play before you trade them? I don't know. Because you're not trading Wall and you're not trading Hildopi. I don't know. So, right?

Yeah. Maybe you just have to keep all three of them around long enough. No, that's never worked in the history. the league. Buddy, I love Hildaby right now and I would not send him down. The Hilda beast. Can we get him in studio for a session? I don't think that would be the most electrics.

I think it'd be hilarious. All right, let's pick this conversation up after the break. Sure. All right? We got our boy John Michael Wiles. John Michael Liles out of Colorado. Help us tee up. A 10 p.m. start for yours truly,

Justin Bourne, Carolyn Cameron and Elliot Friedman. Like, seriously, what do we, it's 8 p.m. local time there. Yeah. Monday night, 8 p.m. Perfect thing. That's Amazon's fault.

I'm not saying it. Coffee after this. All right. Back after these words. Hey, it's Ben Anis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things.

Leifes, Raptors, and Blue Jays. Every weekday morning, 6 to 9. It's the fan morning show. Sportsnet 590 of the fan and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the program.

Nickyiprios, Justin Borence. Sammy McKee. All right, let's welcome him in. John Michael Liles, former Maple Leaf, but also an Ave too and sprinkle in the hurricane and a bruin too. And you got yourself a color analyst on Altitude TV. John, what's going on, buddy?

Not much, just excited for this matchup tonight, even with the late puck drop. I'm looking forward to it. Okay, what's up with that? 8 o'clock on a Monday. Can we talk to somebody, please? I assume you guys would know. I assume you guys would know.

No, I don't know. Listen, we're not dumb. We would have said Colorado's maybe a little bit, maybe a little dumb, but we all said Colorado should be in the mix this season, but was anybody expecting this? No regulations loss and we're in January at home for this hockey club. Like where is this really come from? You know, I mean, every game that we do,

it seems like we're talking about something else, another way that the ads have found a way to win, a way to win, especially at home. And, you know, last game, you don't get any points from McKinnon, you don't get any points from a car, and Nelson, Natchez, you know, a lot of their top players didn't have a point,

and they still win four to nothing. And, you know, on the back of Trent Minor's first NHL shutout, first NHL win, you know, the depth is what I would say is stepping up at opportune times. and, you know, when, when Nathan McKinnon is going and when Marty Natchez is going and Kail McCar is, you know, are going, they're a very, very hard team to beat and then you factor in. There's been, you know, depth scoring. I believe right now I want to say four of six defensemen are over 20 points.

You know, Sam Girard missed a little bit of time. Sloviyov is, you know, is relatively new in terms of that. But I think, I mean, Josh Manson is right on the end. Brent Burns is over it. Sam Malinsky's over it. I just, I think this team, what we're seeing is you're seeing a depth that maybe hasn't been there since they won the cup in 2022. We've had Eric Johnson on the broadcast a number of times this year.

And that's something that he kind of looks at as well. And they've gotten great bulltending. And whether that's McKenzie Blackwood, who missed a time early in the year, Scott Wedgewood has been nothing short of fantastic. And then Trent Minor steps in against Columbus the other day and is going to get the start tonight against Toronto because Blackwood and Webb, are a little bit banged up. It sounds like Wedgwood could go,

but Jared Bednar is making the decision. You know, Minor played well in the last game. And then the abs don't play again until Friday. So deciding to give, you know, Wedgwood a few more days rest. So the one thing that stands out to me is like after the rantan in kerfuffle and they get Natchez back, a lot of people kind of viewed that as a step down. Like, you know, you know, it's not ranting in. And you have this other guy who felt like you saved a very little bit of money.

on and now you're not as good. He's pretty good. Tell us about his time and what you've learned about his impact in his time with the abs. Yeah. Listen, I think, you know, there's a lot of ways to digest, dissect whatever word you want to use the rent and trade and the return and whatnot. What I'll say is at least right now, it's allowed the abs to add some depth.

And, you know, part of that return is Marty Natchez. and he's been really, really good at times. And then there's times where I think, you know, he's still, you know, working through a few things. I think last year, him and McKinnon, because they are kind of similar players at times where they do want to bring the puck up the ice together, or they both want to bring the puck up the ice,

they've had to learn how to read off of each other. Jared Bednar talked about this in his, you know, press conference this morning, I believe it was, may have been one of the Toronto media asked, you know, why is Nathan McKinner? McKinin scoring at a bit higher rate this year. And he said, well, I think part of it is learning how to read off of Marty Natchez. And Marty Natchez has the ability to, with his skating and his puck handling, to slow the game down.

And whether it's McKinnon coming in late or McKinnon going to maybe the front of the net a little more than years past, because when you have Amico Ranton and you have other players that he's played with, he's had to control the puck a little bit more on the outside. Whereas this year, when you have Marty Natchez, who's able to control the puck on the outside, Nathan McKinnon can then drive to the net. He's a strong player. He's a very strong skater. And I'm not saying that he's going to out muscle everybody, everybody that he goes to the net and is battling against. But he has that ability to create opportunities,

maybe a little bit more at the net than he has in years past. I thought Jared Bednar did a great job of explaining that this morning. And the way that McKinnon, Natchez, have read off of each other, especially this year versus last year. I think it's allowed people to kind of be a little bit more okay with losing Miko Rannan. It's a huge piece to lose. You never want to lose a piece like Miko Rannan. But I think when you look at the scope of everything that,

whether it's the depth that they've added with some of that flexibility, especially this year, as well as Marty Natchez in the way that he's played with Nathan McKinnon, And I think it's a lot more palatable for people right now, especially given where the abs are in the standings. You're watching and listening to John Michael Lyle's former Toronto Maple Leaf. Also, Colorado avalanches, we get set on Sportsnet, Ontario, puck drop, 10 p.m. Significant trade last year was Brock Nelson. And they paid a hefty price, right?

A top prospect in Richie. First, I think third as well, a conditional third. It felt like maybe have fans are still kind of feeling the sting of no ranting in there. And it didn't come out of the gate well for Nelson. But you look at him, especially the last 10 games here. And you mentioned finding different ways to win outside the big boys. And he's right at the top of the list for me. Absolutely.

I think what you're seeing with Brock Nelson, and he's a guy that I've known for quite a while and chat with him, you know, a lot in the locker room after morning skate. And, you know, just last year, listen, you're coming from a New York Islander system that, frankly, is night and day from what the abs play. And he was there for a long, long time in the island. You come to Colorado.

There's a lot of speed. There's, you know, it's very, very different. And so I think the fit, you know, maybe wasn't immediate. I think there were some, you know, some flashes. There was, you know, here and there. And I think he'd be the first one to admit it. He was getting more comfortable.

Resigning him was huge for the abs, especially with what you gave up. You know, Cal Richie potential to be a really good player. Obviously, the first rounder, you know, came out of the gates this year, maybe not quite as well as he would have hoped. But his game has been there. And what I've loved about what you, Jared Bednar is done with Brock Nelson is he's essentially, I think, I don't want to say he's realizing how valuable he is as a 200 foot player, but what he's done is said, okay, I'm going to,

going to bump up your faceoffs and I'm going to kind of bump up your minutes and he started to penalty kill more. You'll see him go out and take faceoffs, especially on the left side with McKinnon and, you know, whether it's Landisog, obviously out now, but, you know, with McKinnon, with Naceous and kind of bump up to that top line because he's so proficient at the dot and such a big strong body and so smart. He's really a very good two-way centerman. And I think with that increased responsibility and Jared Bednar having a lot more, I guess more comfort putting him in all sorts of different situations. You can see Nelson's game has thrived, has flourished recently. and he's been putting the puck in the back than that.

He's scoring a bunch of different ways, whether it's off the rush, going to the dirty areas, you know, tips in front. You've got a few power play goals recently. And, you know, that second line center position has definitely been a point of emphasis, you know, call it a pain point since Nazim Kodry left

after the 22 Stanley Cup. So having Brock Nelson playing the way that he is right now, I mean, that goes into that depth piece that we were talking about with depth scoring. Brock Nelson has been, I would say, you know, right at the forefront of that. So in listening to you, talk off the top of our conversation here talking about all the D men with a lot of points.

I was kind of wondering, like, is that maybe something that other teams are missing, these offensive defensemen, you know, in today's NHL, being able to move it from the back back end. And so you mentioned one of the names stands out to me, Brent Burns, because when he went there at 40 years old, genuinely wondering to myself, like, is he still good? Like, I know he's famous. Is he still good? Didn't you?

He's still good, isn't he? Didn't you retire at 35? And this guy's playing 20 minutes a night at 40? what were you thinking? Yeah, I asked him. We had him on our post game show. I believe we were rookies the same year. And I retired.

17 was my last year with Boston. And I was like, how are you doing this? It's funny because the way that he talks about and the way that he approaches it, like he played with Joe Thornton for a long time. And obviously Toronto fans very familiar with Joe and, you know, San Jose fans, well, but he just said, you know, like, like the, the, I call it like the boyish love for the game, right? Like, loves going to the rink every day. And, and, you know, is he going to outrace you in a, you know, in a, in a foot race for a puck? Maybe not. But he's, he's so smart.

It's kind of amazing. Josh Manson never played the left side in his entire career. And they moved him to the left side with Brent Burns. And it's actually been a really good fit. Josh Manson having a very good year offensively. And Brent Burns, like, they just, they've got a very good chemistry together. But Brent Burns, the way that he plays the game, the way that he approaches the game,

he knows that it doesn't last forever. And, you know, he jokes, like Joe Thornton, you know, told him, like, hey, Bernsey, they pay you to play all 82, buddy. They pay you to play all 82. And he just loves coming to the rink every day. And you can see it in the way that he plays. He's just always got a smile on his face.

I think what he does, coming out of his zone is actually a little bit underrated, the effectiveness that, you know, the way that he moves the puck. And then his shot, I mean, he never overhandles the puck on the, on the offensive blue line. It is on and off his tape so quickly. And I think that, you know, the abs forwards have loved that because they know when it's going out to him, it's going to the net and it's getting through. And that's been something that I've been, you know, impressed with among many other things

when it comes, you know, to Brent Burns in his game with the abs. John, just one quick one before I let you go. And I don't want to tie you up too much here on this answer. But like every team's going into the Olympics and then eventually the trade deadline, scratching their heads. What can we do to make this thing better? Like, what would you do with this team? Would you just leave it alone?

Is there a chance that you overtweak it or overthink it here? Just, right? They've earned the right to be left alone. 100%, but I think if you went into that room and asked every player and every, you know, person in management, if there's an opportunity to tweak something to make it even slightly better, we all know how hard the playoffs are. And, you know, whether it's depth, whether it's, I mean, I don't know, there's not one thing I can sit here and say, like, I would absolutely add that. But now I think you're seeing, you know, teams face adversity throughout the year, whether it's beginning, whether it's end, whether it's the middle. Ab haven't had a ton of injuries, but now you're starting to see a couple of things creep in

and whether that's, you know, Blackwood and Wedgwood a little bit dinged up. You know, Devon Taves is out for a little bit of time. Sounds like he's going to be back, you know, maybe in the next week, 10 days, two weeks. Landisca going down, that's a big one because I think he's been such a key addition in the room. And his game has really started to round, I don't want to call it back into form from where he was in 2022. but it's night and day from where he was at the beginning of the year. So I think, you know, if there's an opportunity to add, whether it's, you know, maybe a forward depth piece, you know, maybe top nine,

I definitely could see maybe a piece on the back end for some depth as well. Because we all know, I mean, I go back to 2022, Sam Gerard went down with a broken sternum. Jack Johnson stepped into the lineup. And the abs, I mean, they were as good as we've seen anybody be. in the last five, six years in the Stanley Cup playoffs. And, you know, part of that is having those guys that are ready and able to step into the lineup. So it wouldn't shock me if they add a couple pieces.

I think you're dead on that they've earned the right to, if, you know, management says, hey, we don't, you know, we aren't going to make too many changes. I don't think any of that room would complain. But I think you're always looking to add as cliche as it sounds and make your team better. Great stuff, as always, man. Enjoy the game tonight.

Thanks for time. Appreciate it. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. John Michael Liles. Breaking. Two things. Breaking news.

This is the big one first. Blue Jackets part way with head coach Dean Eveson and assistant coach Steve McCarthy named Rick Bonas, their head coach. I saw that Dean Eveson, he hadn't even been there two years, and in 127 games of them was like 59 and 52 and change.

You know, pretty positive impact on the blue jackets, but they were impatient. Surprise for that one? No. Okay. No, they're in the last place. They made the playoffs. How many times in their franchise history?

Not many. Not many. A few. Like enough already. No, no, next man up. Players get traded. They get waived. They get sent down. They get kicked to the curb.

This is just the best. business side of it. That's all. Yeah, you know, it's just for me, Kip, last year for them was such an emotional year, the Johnny Godreau year, and they had such a positive experience and surprising push to the playoffs. They way overachieved last year. I think what people thought their true talent level was.

This year, they probably performed closer to their roster's true talent level. I just, man, these guys have short leashes, eh? Like, I get there's frustration and it's hard to make trades, but boy, that seems like Very shortly. Their salaries aren't on the salary cap, so don't have to worry about it. It's just the easiest move that they can make. Bonus.

Right? Bonus is 70. His first coaching job was the old Jets in 88, 89. The year I was born. Clearly, there's not a Carberry waiting anywhere when you have to go back to Rick. Well, I don't think that's the point they're making it at all. And I think you know that.

Like, they don't want that. They want a proven guy. They want a guy who's done this. They're not looking to help anyone come along. They want a guy who's been there. They wouldn't have gone back to Tortoralla. They wouldn't have lavillette. I mean, listen, Rick, if Rick's got the energy,

if he's got the juice still, then, yeah. And how much more expensive would the other names have been you just mentioned? And is that something that scares them? Yes. Yes. Yeah. He'll be cheaper. Yes.

Wow. And the other thing I wanted to mention, in Dougie Hamilton's last full season, 22, 23, scored 22 goals and had 52 assists for 74 points. So, plus 23 that year. God bless you. Thank you.

Still hasn't happened for you. Yeah, I mean, you guy can do one thing very well. He fires that maybe in the night. Fire the pill at 6'6, 230 or whatever. I thought that was interesting stuff from Liles about how much Natchez has opened up the middle of the ice for for McKinnon that he can just really flies though yeah it's just so fast can I read you

their top line stats this year yes uh 15 goals for Lekinen 36 goals for Nathan McKinnon 20 goals for Marty Natchez uh Lekin has 110 shots McKinnon has 204 shots and Natchez has 100 shots yeah that attorney Lekin Lekin from Montreal was a steel steel What did they trade him for? I don't know. I don't even know if it was a first rounder. I don't think it was, Ken. Yeah, he became like the premier shutdown.

He might have my Selky vote today. He plays so hard. Without doing a deep dive, he's like at the top of my mind. He was traded from the Montreal Canadiens, the Colorado Avalanche, for Justin Barron in a second round pick. Pretty good. Pretty good. Could he look good right now in that uniform? Yeah.

Montreal. Well, they're looking for guys like him, aren't they? Yeah, everybody is. He's a good playoff player, too. Point per game in the playoffs since he's been there. Okay, do the Leafs have a chance to keep in this close tonight? The NHL, yes. You know, who are they without?

They're without Landiscag. I love that reason. It's hockey. Well, I mean, truly. They got the advantage in that, do they not? Joseph Wall versus this minor? Trent Minor. Trent Minor.

Trent Minor. Okay. The Leafs have a four. 44% chance to win. 44% is my number. Boy, if they win tonight, just keep it close for our telecast tonight.

Toronto Maple Leafs, Colorado Avalanche, 10 p.m. Eastern on SportsNet, Ontario. Justin and I will get you all set, 9.30 Eastern. Our thanks to John Michael Liles. Nine games on tap. Leifes in Colorado, 1-9. All right. Let's keep her going here. David Amber, studio host, Hockey Night in Canada, NHL on Sportsnet in studio. Coming up next.