Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Approaching an Uncomfortable Conversation

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 4-3 loss to the LA Kings in overtime. They discuss the Leafs' second-period woes this season, their difficulty breaking the puck out, what the best version of the team would look like, and Craig Berube's interaction with William Nylander on the bench. Then, CHSN and NHL on TNT analyst Darren Pang joins the show (37:17) to help tee up the Leafs' matchup against the Blackhawks on Saturday, weigh in on what Toronto's biggest flaw is, and discuss Connor Bedard's third-year jump.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Time to go off the rails here on the rail Kipper N-Born show. It's Friday. It is the Leaf Hour edition. We are live on Sportsnet 360. Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto and streaming, always on Sportsnet. catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube at your convenience. Nick Kiprio's, Justin Moore, and Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and David Sis, Boomba. Got the drop.

Is this the debut of the season? Well, it's, I think, season five. Yeah, I think he's today and on Monday, so. Welcome aboard there, David Sis, Boomba. And the only reason I knew that is because he told me like a hundred. times because I think he wanted to make sure that his name gets out on air. We got it. We got it. He's in. Beautiful. Notice that

if you want something to be done, he's a thousand times and I'll do it. One hundred's the math. Yeah. Tons to get into today on this off the rails Friday in about half an hour. We're going to catch up to our good buddy Darren Pang analyst for CHSN Chicago.

Also TNT nationally. Help us tee up on the weekend. The Toronto Maple Leafs in Chicago. And then Doug McLean at the top of the hour, former NHL president, head coach, back for his regularly scheduled Friday. Plenty to get into, including a daily face-off report that has people nervous about the Olympics. I'm people in that sense. Yeah, you are in Sammy as well.

And are the Olympics in jeopardy? Whoa. What are you talking about? Hockey Olympics. You got to have somewhere to play them. Right? I mean. There's rink issues right now.

Gary Bettman's describing it as something that may come down to the wire but this is the leaf hour edition Sammy so we'll wait we'll wait on it in the national hour we'll get into it with Doug McLean okay all right all right so leaves oh actually let's just talk about the Olympics no okay no no no more pressing

you told me this is national news don't waste it on Leaf Talk because people are frothing at the mouth that according to our Sammy, leaf hour edition, people want answers. I want answers.

And I told Sammy, have them change the channel because they ain't getting any from us. I got questions. I got piles and piles of questions. Byfield scores in overtime to lift the Kings last night in the game that we did.

And obviously in our pregame, we talked about some things that we wanted to see, including a good start. Better start. Better start. It actually was way better.

Everything that we talked about in the first 20 minutes. Things didn't have a sniff. So what happened? I don't know. I don't know. Honestly, it looked so good. You know, like the Kings outshot them

in the first by a little bit, but there wasn't a ton of great A's. Leifes took advantage of their opportunities. They were above the puck, responsible. We did whole packages on defense to offense in the first period. And look, if you're in the right spots on D, it leads to action the other way. And then they came out for the second period like...

Which they are... A totally different team. All season long. Filled in. Second period failed. They cannot. They cannot stay in games in the second period. My thought today was just like, okay, everyone's talking about coaching.

That is the first time in the game where you can make tangible adjustments, right? First intermission, you come in and say, here's what the other team's doing. Here's what we're doing. Here's what we're going to change. Did the Kings make some adjustment and the, the Leafs didn't? Or is it just pure, so the Leafs stopped playing the way that they wanted to play? Was it that, was it a coaching thing or a player thing? Sammy, you want to comment before we go to.

Craig Barubi? It's hard to watch, boys. It's hard to watch. It's every night there just no good. I mean, it's 15 shots. 15 shots and if it's not like it's it's the shot attempts too which totally tells you everything you need to know about who had the puck and whose end the most and you'd think like you know you got your third string goalie in there and i guess they have a good start to the game

but the second and third it's just great a opportunity's oh it's like you don't have protect him a little bit they just for it's not for him they lose they don't get a point last night right and he'll be i mean i wouldn't say he was great but like he pretty good big saves Pretty good. Oh, I thought he was as good as you could ask. You're leaning on your third string goal tender to carry you through games to get a point. I think he'll Deby's 0 and 4 and hasn't played bad yet. I'm trying to think of the games he's played.

Even if he gives up one. He didn't love the Carolina game. Carolina game was a shootout. Yeah. They were the only team on the ice. I remember the, I remember the goal's goal that you would like them to catch a puck. But other than that, did you catch Drew Doughty's comments after the game? Yeah, I did.

They dominated. It went in overtime, but we dominated. And you know what? That guy wants, that guy would just, if he could redo his career, he would have killed to be a leaf. That guy loves to talk. He loves to talk. He loves to talk. But you know what?

What he gets here is like, finally, I got an audience. It's talking time. And he just talk to the guys, you should have a little. podcast. Oh, yeah. He's top of the list. Yeah, he just loves it. But I will say, that's not the only guy who's left Toronto and said, we pumped them.

Yeah. I feel like every post game all year, we've heard the other team go, oh, we only got a point or yeah, we won, or yeah, they won. But it always ends in, but we were clearly the better team. All right, let's go to Craig Barrowby on his overview of the game, and then we'll follow up with ours. Yeah, I liked our first period. I thought that we did some real good things, defended well, you know, really our sticks were good, you know, did a lot of good things.

And I thought they three-quarter ice us in the second. The reason that is because, you know, when you get pucks back in our own zone, we got to get out of it. We got to make a play to advance it up the ice. We didn't do a good job of it. And then, you know, we got the lead to a third. And I thought we sat back a little too much, you know, again, just advancing that puck up the ice with speed. jumping, getting the holes. It's confidence for me a little bit and puck play.

Like, you know, the plays are there. We're just, we're not making them and just not seeing it well enough right now. But it's, we're just, we've got to pick up our pace, you know. We've got to be more confident in those plays. To me, that's a difference in the game. The only chance that they have to pick up the pace is if they can get to puck's first. and they're not and therefore

he's got no chance to play quick because they don't have the puck and they're not quick they're not give me a fast guy right now on that blue line give me a guy that with above speed

yeah like Morgan gets around right he's above he's he's not fast right doesn't doesn't move fast I'm sorry but you know

to me what I hear, and I agree with you, but I also hear conflicting messages from him where he says, we need to make plays up the ice together. We need to you know, the whole thing's been don't make plays. It's been go north. Keep it simple. Straight lines.

Direct, if you will. Yeah, direct. So are we going direct or are we making plays? Like, totally. Don't be too fancy. I agree watching last night. Like, they're not breaking the puck out and making little plays and all that. They're just slow. They're just slow at everything they do yeah i i don't know how like just play faster be faster

something but like you got no chance to be quicker if you don't have the puck in your own zone but the scariest part about that is they win 70% of the draws last night 72% so you're winning every draw but you can't get the puck at your own zone What's that mean? Yeah, I don't know. That don't make no scene. I tweeted something sarcastic today where I said, Tanev's a shutdown D, McCabe's a shutdown D,

Carlo's a shutdown D, Benoit's a shutdown D, and all it's done is shut down their ability to break the puck out. Like, none of these guys have done, you know, they're just supposed to be defensive specialists, but because of that, you have a bunch of guys whose job is, hey, just stop the guys coming this way and don't be too fancy going. that way. I don't know. You need some

plays. Guys got to make plays. You need some plays. There has to be some sort of connection or chemistry between the D and the forwards. You've been on this all year long and it's for years actually. I don't know. I think it was Tavares last night in his post game mentioned like the gaps.

Yeah, he did mention that. I saw that. And I'm like, boys, this has been going on for a long time. Yeah. And it's not getting corrected. So I do think that Brube has taken the most heat that's natural it's the coach but like I think Borny that you've been saying that

there's a lot of talent here there's a lot of talent here like I'm starting to think it's more personal than it is coaching in terms of or there's not a I'm sorry Justin but there's not as much talent as you think there is right now that's kind of what the direction I don't know not to gang up here but that's kind of the direction and I disagree with you both

and that's fine where is the talent now that you can still say it'll come or I believe it'll come. Where is the talent coming from? Because it's not they they don't have game breakers anymore. If they do, it's Tavares and Willie.

They're just down Mitch Marner who I know is a significant piece. Yeah. But, you know, they still have everyone else who's supposed to be able to do this. And who is supposed to be able to do this? Well, obviously Willie, Tavares, Nyes. If you go McMahon's a 20 goal score,

like you can go through the line. lineup. I'm not worried about the goals. And I don't think you guys are either at this point. I'm worried about the talent to create energy and momentum. I'm not even worried about the goals. I'm worried about them being number one. I don't see enough talent to hold on to pucks and cycle and be threats. See, I don't.

I see one and duns. If you look at the third and fourth line of even the good teams, guys like Nick Waugh and Dakota Joshua who also, you know, can put the puck in the pit net and make plays, you got Machelli John Crocs down there I'm starting to believe those guys are a fourth line That's fine

And the Leafs don't have a fourth line right now Did you see their fourth line last night Yeah I saw the numbers One Shot attempt For Lawrence Blay

Who played 419 had none He played 419 last night He had no shot attempts And Yarn Croke had no shot attempts Like one for the fourth line, one shot attempt. And on for 13 against. You know how hard that is on any given game for a fourth line not to even have an attempt? Yeah.

It's almost impossible. I know. But listen, I don't think if you look at, if you plug some of those guys out, all right, you put whoever it is you're frustrated with, pick one. Okay. Steve Lawrence is not a fourth line centerman. Okay. So if you put Lawrence on Colorado's fourth line or on. on whoever's fourth line.

As a winger. As a winger. Like this guy is not, you don't look at him and go, he's not talented enough to do that. He's not talented enough to make plays. He's a talented hockey player. He's not at center ice. I can tell you that.

Okay, it's fine if he's not a centerman. That's, I would agree that he's probably not fit for that. So why are you putting together that fourth line? I mean, listen, I'm not. However. Why would they? I guess options. At this point, you're down two guys, right?

So you chose not to get, bring back camp. And, you know, if you want to go back deeper into the offseason, like Pontus Holmberg. You think they could have used Pontus Holmberg in the top six? No kidding. Or the bottom six, bottom six. But that says a lot about where they're at. Give me Pontus Holmberg right now over Joshua. Did you?

I didn't mind him last night. I thought he was okay last night. I just see a lot of wheels spinning. I mean it's just not enough It's just not But I think We're like two granular Right now

I think it's like There is enough guys here That you're not a team who should have What is it? Five regulation wins In 18 games Six regulation wins I don't know exactly what the number is

It's not many I think it's six Like this team is not A trash roster A great example is Sammy You tweeted their roster today Their lineup with the one That finished last

And it's like That to you should have been like, oh, okay, they're not that. Like, the difference in those rosters is night and day. You have legitimate NHL talents on one side and whatever. That was a team trying to lose. They're not that. They're obviously not that.

This is the team I'm telling you is not going to finish in 30th place this year. So the question. I would want them to finish in 30th because if they finish in 21st, they give the pick to the Bruins. So this is the question. And I think people out there know this. If they finish, top five pick is protected. anything else goes to the Bruins.

Yes. For next year. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10th pick goes to the bruce. You can't finish with those picks. Are they good enough, though, and I'm making a case that they still have some talent, are they good enough to even justify trying to get better, firing the coach, trading for players?

Does that even make sense? So how many games are we in now, 16? No, 18. 18? And we said 20. Yeah. I've seen enough To say To say

They're not good enough They're not good enough So McKee You had tweeted To something yesterday as well Because I got home Disillusion disheartened With the Leafs last night

And I text Sam Just said Who have they even beat It's actually in our group chat Who have they even beat Like how I can't even believe They have eight wins

When I look at the way it's going And he ran through it Yeah Gosh it's a dog's breakfast It's all the numbers. You want to go through it? Yeah. It's Habs, first game of the season.

Predators, Rangers in OT. Overtime. Sabers in O.T. Near Dead last. Flames, 4-3. Literal dead last. Flyers 5-2. Non-playoff team, empty netters.

Penns. That was a good comeback. And Mammoth was a, they were a good team at the time. So. That Penn's game, they played 20 minutes. The last game they won was their best game of the year. And they've lost four since it. it's it's not whether or not you can get a point in overtime it's not whether they were a goal away from tying it it's just what you can watch for full 60 minutes and the ice is just constantly tilted not in their favor so tell me what can change a hot goalie a hot power play no they need the pot willie have to have a little bit uh willie getting hotter tavaris

getting hotter. That's the scary part. Right? As you just nailed it, like, their guys are lighting it up. Like, they're all scored. They're getting their points. They're doing what they're supposed to do

and that's produced. Yes. And it's not even close to good enough. It's not making a dent. It's not just not close enough. It's not making a dent. Well, I don't know who made the boat analogy yesterday, but they're pouring water out of the boat

while things are flying in. So the Utah game when they had won three in a row there Was Tanevin at that point? Matthews is in. Tenev got hurt against Philly on the Saturday night. He's going to be a while, boys. Tenev will. He's not coming to rescue this.

Christmas? Any time soon. I don't want to put a time frame. I'm just speaking this weekend, next week. That's not, I don't think, happening. Yeah. After that, you hope he's progressing and he's, I hope it's a lot sooner than Christmas,

but they're being very careful. with this guy. Good. Here's the scary part, as I have been critical of them here today, but I've also said a lot of what the talent they have and all that. I think they have talent to be better than they are. And if they play up to that talent, that means they're what? 16th?

I don't know. Because right now they're 28th in just about every stat I can find. So if they do play better, what does that get you? So I understand what you're saying where it's like, boy, we are at a real crossroads of what. direction are you going you've had plenty of time to play the chemistry card the systems card the I don't know what's left what cards left get us on the road so we can bond yeah hard yeah good left oh yeah that's very left that dad's trip I don't know they've played 13 at home and 15

away or sorry five away 13 at home five away and just a few playoff teams so far so that trip coming up so they go to Chicago for Saturday night against the Blackhawks. Get some deep dish in you. And I mean they're playing well. We're going to talk to Tampangor about it, but they're not, it's not like a cupcake on the schedule anymore. Your team's bad when you go, oh, Chicago's playing good. Oh, the blues might get you. Well, no, I'm just saying, like, their schedule for the next

three is pretty like where you would hope to accumulate some points with at Blackhawks, blues at home, blue jackets at home. And then you go on the road for like, you know, ad habs, at jackets where the lease always lose. Caps, penguins, Panthers, Hurricanes.

Soft. No, it's not. What are you talking about? Even the road games you just mentioned or give me the road games again. It's at Habs. At Habs, okay.

Always greasy on a Saturday night. Yeah, they lost a couple in a row. They're missing some guys' danger. Blue jackets. Always lose that game. Non-playoff team last year that's no different. They're hardly a,

I mean, they're good, but they're not. Caps. Caps are struggling. They're tough, though. Penguins, Panthers, Here's the thing The Leafs are the bad team

That's what I'm saying When you look at other teams You go you gotta look out for the penguins I just Maybe not very good Let's go to Craig Bruby You've heard from us What does he need to do to fix this thing

Well to me The most important thing is The defensive play right now In our game Which we did a better job tonight But you know That's for me I thought that we were too loose

You know lately and that's the one thing you've got to tighten up, you know. The other stuff will take care of itself, but, you know, it's about seeing the plays, making the plays, confident, advancing the puck up the ice and getting to the offensive zone more. We weren't there enough, and when we were there,

it was too much in and out. There you go. All right, well. All right, a big part of... It doesn't change anything. Yeah, exactly. A big part of last night's storyline was Willie Nielander and a minute and 33 shift that led to an interaction

between his head coach and... Do you want to know what he said about it? We have a clip. I love to hear what he said about it. I forget what number it is. It's clip three there, please. What was your message to Willie after their second goal? Well, I just, I thought he was hurt for a minute.

I didn't know. The way, you know, he, whatever, it's just, I was just talking to him about that. I thought he was. That's actually the biggest dig I've ever heard. That's what I mean. I thought he was hurt. I would think that many coaches would think the players hurt when they're standing completely still. Yeah.

Visuals awful. And OT awful. Tough visuals. it's funny willie last night was the first game in a long time where i feel like maybe some body language that he's not real thrilled with the way things are going right like wouldn't look at brooby when he's getting balled out end of the period he's sitting on the bench like uh i gotta go into the dresser room goes in and five seconds after the team or 10 seconds whatever it was we had a discussion uh in between periods as well and listen willie came back and made a play and they've got they got a goal

And I guess some vindication, I guess, a little bit for Willie on that. But is that what you want to do now, be in a position where at the end of the game, you're just exchanging chances and you hope that one more goes your way than the other one? Or eventually, you have to, regardless of the offense, you've got to fix what's going on in your own zone. Yeah, I don't think Willie thinks he did awesome there. Like, you know, it's too long a shift. I will come to Willie's defense on one thing here. Wow.

Probably not. What's that? I said probably not. Probably this is not going to be in Willie's defense. Oh, no. This is in Willie's defense. What? They stink and he's somebody's going to score?

No. Is that the visuals that I get from my television most often than not is that the head coach has no problem laying into me. it seems to me that if if he has a true outburst on somebody it's at willie yeah guys and i have yet just i have yet to see him get in the face of austin or morgan or anyone else who's coughed up a puck and then after the period's over we had a a shot of willie sitting on the bench by himself is that the body language you speak of looking at looking at the iPad right Is that the one we're telling?

I don't know if he's looking at the iPad. If I'm Willie, I'm sitting there going, I'll take it, but I ain't the only one here. Okay? Start yelling at other people, please. Yeah. I honestly think that's a great point. And for a guy that, I mean, we all talk about his deficiencies,

but he's literally carrying the team offensively. And they're lighting it up, and I know you don't like the other side of his game. It would be nice to see him chew out. somebody else somebody else right McMahon takes the odd lick that's about it yeah that's fair just spread it out

yeah yeah you know so I think when when you have conversations with people about this team right now a lot of it is is there a way out are they good enough to like just play their way out of this or does something have to happen I don't know like Matthews is on

placed on IR retroactive to November 11th which I believe it has to be 10 days it's uh it's three he's not eligible to play in their next two games right so that's seven seven or 10 is yeah i'm not i think it's seven full okay yeah so that takes him yeah at least two more games without austin matthews which obviously a big blow even though i have noted his deficiencies this year he's a 40 goal score like this this version of him he's always going to attract a ton of attention yeah that helps everyone right and that helps everyone and

and minutes coaches and players will show Austin whether Austin scored 10 goals and 10 games or zero and 10 they will they will treat him and cover him the same way and you need him back to take a little

bit of space away from from Willie and John even though they're continuing to to provide the offense it will slow down it will catch up they will they can't they can't go 60 games at this pace so yeah you need 34 back because otherwise I'm sitting there going if I'm the head coach how do I have the puck more

how do you can how do you what do you change with this maple leaf's team to have the puck more is it the lines like the you know they're not working together or is it something structurally something philosophically that you're telling them to do You said get to pucks more, get to pucks faster. Yeah, or support each other better or enough with the gaps, that's all. And in the first period, we talked about McMahon, okay, he made a bad mistake. He turned to the middle of the ice and he got picked off by Kempi, but at least he was there to recover. And if you take a look, there's probably like two or three other guys within six or eight feet of him still.

Those guys are gone, though. You covered in the intermission. You were so polite. You're like, yeah, they're not too far gone, but they're gone. I think it was McCabe that was at least there. The D were still there. The D were still there, and McMahon was still there. And he didn't quit on the play, and he ended up turning it into a 80-foot breakaway.

So some decent signs, but, like, can we have that over a long stretch of the hockey game? I think, yeah, fundamentally, they're going to have to play like a team. team that just really prioritizes defense and it's boring and it looks like the first period looked everyone's back above and reloading and they also had a two nothing lead well that's more fun like they had a two nothing lead in that period and yep played great and even i was like oh well see they always play better without matthews in the lineup maybe they should say i'm like i don't know they still suck yeah they still suck uh we talked a while ago forecasting joseph wall we circled Chicago

We did He will play You think? Oh yeah Listen to the coach Do we not have Let's listen to the coach And see if you be the judge

Clip six please on Joseph's ball So Joseph just said he's like good to go Whenever he calls never You plan to get him right back Tomorrow night Yeah I'm not sure yet But thinking about it definitely What have you seen from Joe

As he gets closer Well we haven't seen him that much I mean he's same old Joe to me in practice like what I see you know he's a hard worker he looks good in that you know I he went down and played a couple of games

of the Marnies which is good I think getting into game action but he seems normal to me and ready to go normal to me and ready to go you cannot not play him yeah we have a clip from him want to hear what Joseph Wall said Joseph Wallet I play that Joseph Wallet there yeah I mean it's been a bit

bit of a weird start to the season like we've talked about before but um yeah i'm just really happy to to be here be back um got to play you know game and a half there and um just pumped to pump to get going pumped to get going next man up joseph ball's going to play hockey saturday night no pressure is there any part of the season jokes is there any part of you that's like all right this is a very different shape of a season some adversity early they could you know out gel together this is a group that can still salvage this thing i did that was my positive poly take on uh leif's talk to their night that it's different like hey maybe they stank in the

regular season or good the playoffs maybe i like the two words probable but not impossible right so this is sport we've seen the blues in last place in january when a stanley cup the leaf should I don't anticipate a bolt of lightning striking another team, let alone the Toronto Maple Leafs, like the St. Louis Blues in what, 2019. That's where we're at with the lease. But this is sport. Anything can happen. That's what we got.

There's my positive take, Sammy. Here, I did a positive take. Don't ever accuse me. It's sport. I'm going to tell you who I liked last night. Well, that's where we're down to Sammy. John DeVaris. I like John DeVaris.

I liked John DeVaris. I liked. McMahon I liked Joshua and I liked Mermis how about you?

Listen John's given everything he has I had a buddy right me today he said that's what watching an Islander's game was like 15 years ago

the team plays terrible Tavares works his bag off scores a couple goals and you lose yeah oof so you know you live long enough

to come the early 2010 this was also like the danger of signing John, right, to four years, is that you'll still consistently get the 60 or 80 points

but it doesn't advance the program. It doesn't get you closer. It doesn't... Yeah, I agree. What's that? What do you mean? Well, you're, he's doing great. He's playing fantastic. Good thing they signed them. Good thing they signed them.

They have no wins. The team didn't get bad. guys is my point even with bringing John back even with him at his 80 points the team didn't get better over the summer it's not his fault whose fault is that it's not his fault but are you reviewing his whole seven year contract here no I'm not I'm just saying like it's it's great that John it's to your point it's like if if a guy's doing his job but it's still not good enough should you have gone somewhere else should you have gotten younger should you have gotten a guy that is more physical up the middle of the I think I'm just saying that it's not John John's doing what he's supposed to do and that's produced points but at the end of the day it's it's it's not good enough for anybody very consistently your problem with John DeVars is a management problem with team building thank you John DeVars no John's not the problem no John's not the problem the problem is miscast is

is the whole thing's miscasted. John was supposed to come in from 11. Sorry. He's worthy of praise for his play this season. He's worked hard, produced, then one face off. It took half price on his contract. It's great for John.

It sucks for the team. What do you mean? It sucks for the team. What is that? The team's not better. No. The team didn't need to go back and double down on John

and even a few other guys. Nice. Morgan, all of it. What were you going to get? That's better than John. You'd be worse if you didn't have them. They should have just stunk then. They should not try it and trade away everybody. Which is a fine point if that's the point someone's making.

Yes. Like if you're just going to go scorched earth, which... I just think, like, right now it's pretty clear that you try to bring the minus Mitch, you try to bring the band back, and it's not working. To me, it's not working. Then you can quibble with how the Marner money has been spent. Yeah. You know, but I appreciate it.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't see any reason. No, I'm not, I'm not, it's not John. It's just John's in the position now of being a number one centerman. That's not a good thing for the Toronto, I believe. No. I mean, but yeah. But it's much like the Wall Stoller thing where the, it's hard for me to get excited

about how great of a season John's having when the team looks the way they look. That's all. That's my whole point. Okay. That's good to pay. All right. We got Darren Pay up when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA.

Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprios, Justin Moore, and Sammy McKee. I told you we'd solve nothing. We solved less at break, too. Not a lot of easy answers here. No, there's not.

Sammy Blay playing four and a half minutes. Do you take a bad penalty or something? I vaguely recall him doing something. I don't know. I mean. There's definitely some punishment involved. struggled the last few years to find any type of game like he

had when he won the Stanley Cup with the blues. You know, excuse my ignorance here, but like, the role of the Ruby wants him to play, why doesn't someone just go act like a fool out there? And just like, I'm going to ignore the hockey puck and I'm going to run into everybody

and I'm going to, you know... Those days are over. But if someone did that, their coach would go, thank God. And they would put them on the ice a lot more. But there's a reason why he spent the whole year in the American Hockey League last year, you know that, right? I mean, yeah. It's because maybe he's

not that guy or not really. You're not that guy, pal. How many times have the Leafs or all these teams been like, okay, we're dying for someone just to run into people. Go get Big Lawrence, go get Joshua, go get Wa, go get

big guy, big guy, big guy. It's like... But none of them are willing to do that. Right. What you're talking about. And like, he for sure, Burwood body checked his way into a regular role and then started shooting at the net. People are like, we got a player. It seems to me. Like leads the league.

Like Matthew Olivier punched and body checked his way into a role. And now he gets points. Like you earn a spot by doing things. They give you more opportunity when they trust that you're doing things that help the team. Listen, you've praised McMahon in the last few days. you too, Sammy. He's trying his best, but clearly it's out of what he thinks he should be. It's not who he is. It's not who he is. And that's

probably consistent with five other guys. And that's a problem. It's a problem. Nothing comes, it doesn't come naturally to guys. Well, you know, I've been sore losers and look like a sore loser. I've often used the expression that coaches would rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a pussycat. Yeah. That old expression. It's like, I thought Posetta was going to be that for them.

Can you explain that you sign this guy? You're in training camp and then it's like you take an eraser and then go put Sammy Blaze there. Just explain that to me. If you're like, that's my job. I was going to be the body check guy and playing the fourth line. and stuff. Don't want to give them a chance first before you go get Sammy Blaze.

And the Marleys are a mess because they've got like nine vets. I don't know what it is seven, eight, nine vets. You can only dress, I think, at most six veterans for a game, something like that. So they have to sit guys every other game like in a rotating healthy scratch thing

because they can't put all the vets in. So that is not even playing much. Ah. trying to track down panger. It's fine. We can just yell about stuff. I got a long list of... What else would be like the yell about?

You know? Long listed names to yell about here. Well, just go through the roster, really. Matthew Nyes has been a guy that's produced a lot of points, but physically, I thought he would have been ready to maybe go to another level a little bit. He did. He's went to Marner's assist level. He had 17 assists.

All right. No body checks. We'll just pick up on that while we go to our good buddy. Darren Pang panger It's been way too long, my friend Yes, it has been. How have you been, buddy? We've been, well, good, you know.

I mean, other than the leaf issues that you're going to solve for us before you talk about Chicago, just tell us how to solve the leaf problem. Leaf Nation is like beside themselves after an incredible Blue Jay run right now.

You're going to compare the Leafs to the Blue Jays now and all that magic? Are you out of your mind? Kipper? Oh my goodness. Listen, I can't help save you, but I'm just finished watching last night's game right now. And all I saw is an L.A. King's team, especially in the third period, that played the game the way I know that Craig Barrowby likes the game to be played. Down low, holding on a puck, going to the front of the net, jamming, working, working, working back to the point, tire out the D again and then end up, you know, putting you on your heels. So to me, that was a prototypical Craig Barubi style of game in the third period by Jim Hiller

in the Los Angeles Kings. That's what I saw. You know, and I also saw the roster, and I'm going through it, and I don't have the names on there, but I'm like, whoa, well, right now, that's not much of a, you know, it's not much of an, like, really, that's, you know, it's not a high-end compete NHL team right now as on the roster anyway from last night's game. Well, it's funny because it's almost like a parent telling a teenager that they need to like clean the room and they do it begrudgingly.

Barubi is telling the Leafs to dump the puck in. You see these guys who have played a possession style game here for years going, oh, fine. And, you know, maybe not having the pace. And do you think sometimes a roster and a style the coach wants just don't mesh? Well, I mean, yeah, but I have seen, you know, chief. I mean, he's a guy that knows what he's got in front of him, too. But, I mean, if you're a team that's playing a slower game

and trying to go east to west or board to board before getting it in the zone, you're likely going to have to make the perfect pass and the perfect play without speed, and you don't have the speed to backcheck back. And, you know, the one thing I saw in that game, and I'm not sure exactly what happened, but I was just watching it, and I saw a shot of, I think it looked like Chief in Nylander having a conversation on the bed, and then I didn't really seem, you know, Neelander, as the game went on, dial it up either. So that's the kind of speed they probably needed when the game was, you know, kind of on the line.

And you could see that L.A. was taking it over. So not a whole lot of speedy players out there that can go north-south. But even a guy like, I mean, Neelander still likes to play East West. You know, I think the guy that gets it the most under here, the one that I see, after all those years of being with Craig in St. Louis is John Tavares. I mean, he understands exactly where he's at on the ice, when he needs to dump the puck in, when he needs to go get it, when he needs to hold onto it in the offensive zone.

And, you know, even though he's not the fastest player, he almost reminds me a little bit of Ryan O'Reilly playing those years with Craig Barubi. He gets it. He understands what he wants him to do. You're watching and listening to Darren Pang, analyst for CHSN and TNT nationally. We're going to see the Leafs play the Chicago Blackhawks Saturday night. There's a different feel of the Chicago Blackhawks. We're going to see a different team that we've seen in the past few years.

What exactly are we in for Saturday night with this club compared to what we've seen in years past? You know, Kipper, I think you're going to be really impressed if you haven't seen it. You know, the last two years have been tough years. I mean, you know, I mean, not just not a. great deal of high-end players and not a great deal of accountability all the way around, I don't think. And so now I look at what Jeff Blaschell and, you know, Mike Volucci's a long-time good coach. And he interviewed for several jobs as a head coach. So, you know, that's a good ear for and a voice for Blash. And then Mike Pecka as well is on the staff with Andrew Storrens.

And so all the way, all the way around, as soon as training camp started, the first whistle was stop the drill, stop the drill, do it again, do it again, do it again, do it. again. Nope, stop the drill. I mean, that's stuff that these players needed. They needed more information. They needed more accountability and they needed more teaching. And so what you're going to see is a pretty fast team, a pretty relentless team. But a team that defends well or decently well, they do give up a lot of shots, but they're getting better in that area. But you're going to notice right away, it's going to take it five seconds to notice the the speed or the

I guess the ability to carry the puck going forward with speed would be Connor Bedard for sure. I mean, he's a different player. He's a different person. His interviews are different. I mean, I'm telling you all the way around. He's, and selfishly

as a broadcaster, fellas, you know how much time we spend, you know, in the locker room, whether it be on the road or practices or whatever. But he's just been magnificent, both on and off the ice. And his plays really reflected of that. I mean, he's a legitimate player. He makes a difference every single time he's on the ice. So that part of it. But the other part of it is, and Kipper, you'll love this. I'm going to

slide back for a second. Hang on. Because it's the 100th year, tomorrow night. Oh, wow. The first 8,000 fans are going to get this. Let me. That's pretty cool. Do you see that pretty good? That's awesome. Whoa. I didn't, I didn't know you caught right. That's a little wee version of me. Gosh, Tony. Oh, the best. You kidding me?

Who wasn't Tony Esposito on the driveway or Mike Palmoteer? One of the two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just with the stance alone, right? The famous stance. Yeah. That's very cool. Yeah.

It's always been, it's big in the 100th year. You guys know that. And it's a big celebration. And Danny Worst is a fourth generation owner. And he's very proud of what they're doing in this 100th year. That's really cool. I spend some time of telling us. on these guys with Daryl Sutter recently.

He's a big Tony Esposito fan. He's got drawings from when he was a kid that he had Esposito. Love the Blackhawks. I did want to stay on Connor Bred briefly and just get a sense. To what do you attribute these changes? Like is it a maturity? He's just gotten older. Did he change training?

Did the organization talk to him? What's brought about a different guy? Yeah. I mean, I think from the first time he left this season last year and obviously disappointed season. and instead of going to the world championships, which I'm sure, you know, especially everybody in Canada and in Toronto would be wondered, okay, what happened there?

He went to the world championships the year before. He was out of gas. Like the kid's been going nonstop for four years. And he's like, I just want to get my training better. I need to get faster. He knew he needed to get lighter boots. But, you know, how do you get Nick Kiprios light CCM boots? I mean, you don't just order them online

and all of a sudden be fleet of foot like Nick Kiprios. You got to work at it. You know what I mean, Kipper? And so he's starting, he trained a little bit with Kent Johnson, his good buddy, who's, of course, the Columbus Blue Jackets Young Star. And they just change their training a little bit and maybe less on ice. You know, he spends so much time on the ice. And it's been well told that even in Chicago, when the Zamboni's coming out for practice, I mean, he's still on the ice. They've got to boot him off.

But he's been really careful and he's been really diligent about not wasting time. doing the same kind of things. And so if you look at crossing over, not just east-west, crossing over this way and gaining speed going downhill is the biggest thing that I noticed. Off the ice, I mean, it sounds to me, and he's mentioned it to me before, he did other things.

He actually played golf this summer. He hung out with his buddies. He went to restaurants. And then when he went to Hockey Canada's camp, I think he really endeared himself to everybody. From Doug Armstrong to, I know I just spoke to John Cooper a couple days ago in Tampa Bay and he said the kid was magnificent and he was in the middle of everything and you know so I maybe it is just a

you know he's 20 years old now he's in his third year he's seen what other players are doing he's he's watched how Wayne Gretzky handles things he watches how other great players handle things and and I just think he's having a heck of a lot more fun in fact just recently he asked about getting fitted for golf clubs so who did he call he knocked on my door and he said Hey, is there any chance that you can help me out? I've got my dad's old golf clubs. And he says, I want to get better at it. So I took him out to a club champion for club fitting.

It was about three hours, and he couldn't have been any better. And from that point on, by the way, that's when he got the hat trick, his first one ever. And then he's been on a, what is, he's been on a roll ever since. And he's a scratch golfer now. Yeah. Yeah. And now he's hitting fades and blood. I know probably externally around.

in Chicago, there's not much talk about Bard and the Olympics like it is up here. But from what you're hearing, how important is that to him and what are you hearing on his chances of participating in the Olympics?

For Canada, of course. Yeah, of course. You know what, Kipper? I mean, I would say, probably going into that orientation camp, I'm not speaking for anybody, but I would have to think that he was on the outside, far on the outside looking in. I mean, let's be honest, with all the centermen and all the ability for the Canadian centerman to play the wing,

you know, there's not, there's just not much room. That and the speed factor and the way that he's playing now and every single time he's on the ice, he's dangerous, and he's back checking, and he's learning the defensive side of it, and he's playing winning hockey. But I would say he was way on the outside, and now I'd say he's, whoa, I think he's caught all of their attention. Why wouldn't he? He and Macklin Celebrini, if they went with that type of youth, which they don't often do that for Hockey Canada, especially when you get into a single game elimination

and everything's on the line. They want guys that have been under the microscope. They want guys that have been under the lights and have been there tried and true before to be under pressure. But there's no way that Doug Armstrong and John Cooper don't watch every game and go, wow. So I would say that he's put himself in a great position.

And if he doesn't make it, he's got to be real proud of how he's put himself right back on the map again in the way that he's played. So again, I think tomorrow night you guys are going to be really, really impressed. And you'll be keeping your eye on him after this because he's a change person, a change player. The other thing, too, Kipper, you love this stuff with sticks and that. But, you know, in training camp, I said, is your stick shorter? He said, yeah, I cut it, like a couple of inches.

And I said, you do anything else. He said, I made it. You know, he was a 71 flex with a very long stick for a 5 foot 10 player. And he went from 71 to 77. So now you've got a firmer stick. Now all of a sudden, he's winning a lot of face-offs. He's winning, his stick handling in tight is exceptional. I mean, I'm talking, it's elite now.

And the way he pulls that puck in, it's not getting blocked by the D like it was maybe later last year because maybe it's a little bit short. He's bringing it back into his feet. So he's perfecting what Austin Matthews has already perfected. Awesome stuff, pal. Listen, we're running out of time here, but don't be such a stranger, okay? Never will be.

Thanks for having me. Darren Payne, everybody. Thanks, Pang. Appreciate it. tomorrow night. Shortening your stick in two inches is a massive difference in hockey. That would feel I prefer it that way. Kipper, I'm still getting tweets about how you tape your stick up then.

Oh, yeah. Oh, they said like rats. You get a dog chewed on it before you came out then. Yeah, I know. I will say I take my stick once. Rat chewing tape. You can do whatever you want when you produce like that. We're just getting started here on the real Kippenborn Show.

Doug McLean for his off the race. Friday, you're not going to want to miss it. Coming up next on the Real Kipper and Born Show.