Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Are the New Guys Enough?

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with some fallout from Friday's deadline as the Leafs enter into the final stretch of the regular season. Then, into Saturday's win against Montreal - Matthews' recent down stretch, back-checking miscues, Knies' improved play on the bottom 6, McMann playing himself out of Toronto's price range and evaluating the mixed-up lines without Marner. Who is the answer at second-line centre? Then, evaluating Connor Dewar and Joel Edmundson's Leafs debuts, the decision to pull Benoit from the lineup and who will be the odd man out of the defence corps come playoffs. Finally, an update on who's winning the starting battle in net.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

hope it was a good weekend real kipper and born show the kip rails justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo jen rolnick for the next two hours wherever you're watching listening listening, Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus, from 4 to 6 p.m. And if you can't catch us live, download us off your favorite pod platform, and you'll find us. Yep.

I believe they call that a pod catcher. Is that right? I've never heard that before. Your favorite pod catcher. Really? Yeah. All right. I don't know how I feel about it.

I'll have to write that down. You'll have toer. Really? Yeah. All right. I don't know how I feel about it. I'll have to write that down. You'll have to write that down on your lineup. Okay. I will. Which includes the Leafs snapping their five-game losing streak at the Bell Center. They skate on to a 3-2 win Saturday night. Is that like their first win against an Eastern Conference team in like a gazillion years? No, they beat Buffalo on Tuesday or whatever.

No, regulation. I think it was regulation. Regulation, yes. Was that not the weirdest week in Leafs? Since we've been doing this show, was that not the weirdest week? Buffalo, Boston, Montreal, trade deadline. It was a crazy week.

Lots happened. And I feel like we got robbed of our Friday show because of the trade deadline after the Leafs had lost 4-1 in Boston. Yeah. We had lots to say. We kind of halfway did it. And, of course, this is our Leaf edition of this hour.

And then we go national. But on Friday, it had a bit of a different feel because we went national right away. Feel better in the non-national 4 o'clock. And people still complained way too much Leafs on Friday they're never not going to complain about the amount of Leafs you know what's crazy people I go on

and I say this hour is the Leaf edition of our program Leafs hour Leafs hour edition and people will still write in say you guys talk way too much leafs in that first hour a formal complaint with the crtc that we talk about the leafs too much i think that happened someone filed a legitimate complaint about it

whoa okay what part don't you get about the Leafs hour? A lot, apparently. The whole concept. Everything, in fact. Hopefully this was a nice warning. We do not agree. Hopefully this is a nice warning for them if they are listening that what they can expect in the next hour.

Leafs. Hour. All right, JB, let's start with you. We're going to get to our Kippers Clippers with Sheldon Keefe. We'll get his overview of Saturday night. You want to go first or you want to go to Sheldon? Let's start with Sheldon. All right, we're going right off the bat.

Let's go to Sheldon Keefe, head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, on what he saw Saturday night. I stayed with it. Obviously, you know, we got some great goals from guys, you know, whether it was Bobby starting the second period for us and sort of, in essence, responding for us giving up on the first shift of the first period.

You know, and then Max, you know, two great plays. One to skate onto that puck that Yarncroft threw out to the neutral zone for him and to finish that. And then Max makes a great play to initiate the third goal as well with John driving to the net as well. So, you know, some great moments of really good goals at key times.

And otherwise we just stayed with it. We got some saves from Sammy. We battled real hard. We didn't give up a whole lot. Didn't generate a whole lot either, but didn't give up a lot. And had some really strong efforts, not just on those goals i talked about but you know i thought the camp line today with with mcmahon and nyes was outstanding so okay so i'm of two minds about this game okay where there are certain games across sports that kind of rise above everything else and you can kind of

throw what the teams are doing and just that they're going to be close. And I really do feel like Leafs-Habs is kind of in that air where regardless of how good the Habs are and how bad the Leafs are or vice versa, it really does feel like no matter when they play, it's a weird tight game and weird things happen and it's always kind of not good but close at least.

And I felt that way on Saturday night. It's hard to win that building for the leafs but the other side of it is boy they didn't look very good for the most of that game yeah i do feel like sheldon was kind of taking it easy on him you know fourth game and six nights or after the deadline like maybe it was some sort of you know they've been working it's been a tough week or whatever um so you get the two points and you try not to say too much maybe it's one of those but yeah i mean they barely got their couple of points out of the montreal canadians it's not great didn't think they were awesome you you two are pathetic yeah what was it earlier the flu and now it's just just like, this is just the way it is. Toronto, Montreal.

And now it's just like Goldilocks. Not too hot. Not too cold. End of a long week. You know. Well, I'm not going to pretend those factors aren't relevant. I'm just watching Saturday night. And I'm thinking, like like we're under 20 games.

Is this the way you're starting to get ready to play Florida or Boston Bruins? Do you not think that the, you know, amount of hockey matters? I think at this point that wherever you feel like you are in the standings, there needs to now be a little sense of urgency to starting to show signs that you're building towards something. That's all. And I would have thought that the two games last week against Boston

would have shown at least some of the players on the Toronto Maple Leafs where their intensity needs to get to. And Saturday night didn't do it for me. I got to tell you, there's the positive and there's the negative angle to take. I'll start with the positive. I thought Nyes with McMahon and Kampf in the middle

were really, really good. And I thought Nylander and Matthews were awful. You know, Matthews for me had a really bad week. Like his worst week of the season where... Maybe of his career. Maybe. Like turning pucks over, can't make a play, no pop in his step. I don't even know how many shot attempts he got,

but like this was a tough stretch for Matthews. Yeah, I think it was you that said in our group chat, did he have a good shift all week? Yeah. It really didn't feel like he was himself at all. Yeah. And I mean, do you guys want to play the clip? There's a clip on the second sheet there about Matthews' struggles,

and it's a bit of a long-winded answer, and the question was like how are you feeling about his – What's happened? Is is he is it long winded and i've not heard it is it long-winded because he's trying to bail him out a little bit well this like you have a list i'm sure it's and we'll go we'll go from there yeah i think there's some of that for sure i think a lot of our guys uh seem seem like they're getting worn down a little bit demands the schedule especially once we got especially once we got past the Buffalo game. That turnaround in Boston, that was as miserable a travel night as we've had all season,

both in some of the challenges that we had. Gardner was shut down that night, and we couldn't get to the airport. Weather was bad in Boston. Customs, all the things we had to deal with. Cookies were cold. Three o'clock in the morning and then you've got to wake up and prepare for the Boston Bruins. So that was a tough stretch and I think that led into Montreal as well.

But, you know, specific to Austin, he had at least two, maybe three, but certainly two really clean chances where he's basically in alone on the goalie in Boston, and those didn't fall for him. Obviously, things have fallen a lot for him this season, and they will again. But, you know, he's somewhat of a historic type of pace that he was on. It's historic for a reason. It's difficult to maintain on the team, but

I think this break will be good for him. Like, right up there with the dog ate my homework, isn't it? It is. It is. So we're in two different sides of this, because I do believe there's validity in... Worn down. And the Gardner was shut down. The Gardner was shut down.

You know, it's a postgame. You know, it's funny and all that. You go to bed at 3 o'clock in Boston and wake up and play the Bruins. Honey, my battery ran out on my cell phone. How was I supposed to know you were trying to reach me? Yeah. But I, you know,

I'm a grump, so I get how, you know, getting into Boston and getting up early, like, that would faze me. Yeah. But I'm not on the Leafs. What does bother me a little bit is the guy who's supposed to say we don't make excuses. You know, like whatever. It's the guy who's like, wow.

How about the worn down part? I got a problem with that. 64 games in, worn down. What do we talk about the first 55 games? How much they played played the a team, all of it. If they're worn, if he's worn down,

maybe, maybe you leaned on him a little bit too much for the first 64 games. How about that? Sure. You know, if that's, you know what, what this is,

you know, making the excuses that I think the thing we all agree on you, me, Sam, Sheldon, Keith is that wasn't a good week for us. Agree. thing we all agree on, you, me, Sam, Sheldon, Keith, is that it wasn't a good week for Austin. Agree. Whatever the case may be, you hope it's not worn down.

The problem is that it implies that it could continue. That it's not like, ah, it was a busy week. It was a lot. Have a break here and be good to go. You hope he's not worn down. Hope he hit a little blip there because that wasn't great. I really, really had a problem with the first 35 seconds and the 1-0 down Saturday night.

Yeah. Specifically with Matthews and Nylander. So, yeah, that was the Matthews turnover. That was the Matheson goal. The Matheson goal, yeah. Right. Labushkin turnover. Labushkin, terrible.

Bertuzzi, terrible route, wrong coverage. Between the time that Montreal was facing their own, their defensive core was facing the glass on a four check by the Toronto Maple Leafs, 10 seconds later, it's in your own net. 10 seconds. And if you go watch the the highlight of it again there's the the puck goes around to labushkin and he doesn't handle it cleanly he's now turned around he smacks it into the middle of the ice but when he's such a bad when he's

when he's turned around you can actually see matth Matthews and Nylander in the upright position, hoping that somehow he miraculously grabs the puck and feeds it back into them for another push in the offensive zone instead of just busting your ass to come back. Right. And when you see the play develop, Matheson has to be either Nylander or Matthews' man. Well, I just watched it. Nylander, shoulder to shoulder with him on the way out of the zone. So it's Nylander.

There was no sense of urgency for those guys to come back, either one of them. No. I mean, it's a mess. The whole goal is a mess. That's your man. Yeah. And when it isn't, it's Bertuzzi's.

You know, it's a mess all over the ice. Is that being worn down the first 30 seconds? No, that's mental. That's all mental. Yeah, that's an issue for me. Yeah. Not good. You know, they pull it out they get the two

points on a game where i would say they didn't play great the guys who deserve some credit as i mentioned i thought uh camp mcmahon nyes was a really interesting line you know we've talked about the line structure whatever i think matthew nyes getting to go against worse competition like taking him out of that top group and letting him play third lines with less pressure, I thought he looked like a different hockey player. I think you hit it right on the nail. Just the less pressure of having to keep up or produce or do things right for Matthew and Marner,

all those games earlier in the season. I think he can relax a little bit more thinking, I don't have to produce. I don't have to be that man right now carrying the left side. Anything he does there is gravy, right? Like if you're in the third line, you produce something, everyone goes, oh, you know, we got some depth scoring. And he, I think it was Simmer that said it on Saturday night

that he goes down there and he feels like he's the best player on that line. Where as opposed to playing with Matthews and Marner, like you mentioned the pressure. Deferring. Exactly. Like it just felt like he's always, he's like, I got to win this board battle and get it to those two guys.

When he's out there with McMahon and Camp who are two great players, but different types of guys, obviously, it's nice for him to just be able to be like, I have this puck. I'm going to shoot this puck. Yeah, it's a different way to think about the game. You're like.

I can't stress enough on coming out of junior hockey or college hockey and learning the pro game. How much time do you have? How comfortable are you holding on to the puck, making plays? This guy's still in the learning process you can't learn it being on the number one line you're just you're too busy trying to please everybody including most importantly matthews and marner and i think one thing we've learned over the years with matthews and marner is that they play this unbelievable two-man game

right like mitch finds austin austin finds soft spots they kind of do their thing and whoever has played with them really has not been a part of what they do and i think that's okay you almost need to embrace that and have a guy on that spot who just creates on his own and four checks and does all the things you just want someone to do a guy like cali yarn crock to me who just shoot it if it comes to him he can shoot it in the net. Otherwise, he can forecheck. He can do all the little things. No one has had a ton of success in that spot, certainly not Matthew Nye.

So I hope he doesn't end up back there. Bertuzzi, by the way, rancid for me. In a game like that with space, when he's able to look like have time and space make plays. It's like a grenade. He can't do it. He's great in tight games, but he can't play that kind of hockey. Every puck blew up on him. Would you guys like to hear the head coach's opinion on the top line?

Yes. Clip three, Derek. They weren't very good. Do you think that can just be attributed to not having played before? No, they just individually weren't very good. But, you know, it's a night where the group picked them up, so that was good. Oh, boy, we have no time to talk about them, eh?

Could you please say they weren't very good, Derek? They sucked. They weren't very good. So, do we have a new appreciation for what Mitch Marner has done for Austin Matthews based on his bad week no no he was there for three of the four games yeah I mean I think Mitch Marner is really good and he makes Matthews

better but I don't think that's any excuse for what they look like on Saturday night they were very good yeah see I think like you need a guy that can handle the puck yeah hold on to it. Make plays. In that sort of game, Marner is a dream.

And he didn't have a very good week. But I'm watching Saturday night. And you would have hoped Willie could have been able to kind of go in and do some things. But he's struggling as well. They don't have a lot of chemistry. No, they don't. I agree. Both those guys just kind of wait for their spot to shoot it, right?

Like, Willie does it by carrying it. Austin does it by getting open. But, yeah, without Mitch or someone to get them the puck, it's just like you're kind of waiting for one to bounce to them or something. It was not pretty. Certainly, listen, they're not going to win the playoffs without Mitch Marner. Mitch Marner is, you you know the first or second most important thing on this team depending if it's me or you talking i don't i'm not even sure mitch is

enough to be honest with you and it hasn't been in the past see all last all saturday night kind of did for me is reinforce if i am boston or tampa or i'm boston Boston or Florida playing the Leafs in the first round is you take away Mitch Marner you'll take away Matthews yeah I mean I don't know no you said it he finds the soft spots and he shoots it in the net yeah but if I his goal for game with and without Marner are the same you can you can the soft spots, but if someone's not there to constantly feed those soft spots, you're taking a big part of Matthews out of the game. Yeah, and I'd say for years, Kip, this is what teams have done. They say, you know, these two guys need to be eliminated.

They lean on them. Those two guys so far in their careers have shied away from that engagement, shut down, and the team is lost that's pretty you know that's the extremely cole's notes version of what's happened but i don't know tough tough week all told you know they they get four points which is good you know and kind of get the points now they're almost irrelevant we care more about how they look and how they play than points are you is that fair to say now where they are in the standings or is a win just a win now for you no no no but it's i don't i unlike you do not think that this

team is you know free and clear of pressure points wise i still feel like you know you want to make sure you can climb the standings or at least not get caught but looking at it today they're pretty far in both directions so it would take I'm moving on to your page. Yeah. I think I'm ready to turn it. But the good news is, like you said, maybe it's Kampf, maybe it's McMahon now, like a really nice goal. Awesome.

Right? Really nice goal where he looked like a real nhler calm didn't necessarily make his decision when he crossed the blue line but as he started like six feet in eight feet in it's like i got the room i'm letting this thing rip i got a shot that can beat a goaltender clean now and i just it was really nice to see mcmahon yeah it's funny too because he made the exact same play on jack guy at the end of the first period poked it by him got it and tried to make a backhand sauce it was like next time what am i doing i'm in alone in the bell center i'm you know i could shoot it the old wi-fi was down on saturday night boy he's not having a good day i mean he's he's

fringe nhl or yeah he looks like you had a tough. Let's get Sheldon Keefe's thoughts on Bobby McMahon. Yeah, he had two other two-on-ones tonight where he floated some passes over, which I thought, I wish he had shot those ones. So if he starts shooting those ones, then maybe we can say that. But I just thought he played an outstanding game with lots of confidence and he was just

strong hard on the puck lots of urgency to his game I thought their team had a hard time handling him yeah so it was a really good showing for him he's you know he obviously had a real strong push for us a couple weeks back and then it sort of leveled off a bit, and then here tonight again at a time. So, you know, it's a tough stretch for us here, four games and six nights in three cities, and we needed some big efforts from guys, and Bobby certainly stepped up for us. Now, how did this happen with Bobby McMahon?

UFA this summer, do you think he's going to contract? I was just about to bring that up. I'm like, does that matter at this point? I mean, you're in the here and now. But he might be shaping himself up for a nice contract next year. Fine. He's fighting for it. Let him play well enough to earn an NHL contract for the Leafs this season.

You know, he's 27 years old. He'll be 28 next season. He's got 10 goals this year you know in 40 games which 20 goal pace i don't think he's a 20 goal scorer but if he can kill penalties out there in the last minute in some cases if he can be out there in those situations kill penalties shoot 15 20 in the net for you give him two by 1.25 right now? Done. How much? Two times 1.25. I'll go back to what Sammy said, that if he can have a good run here,

he's going to earn a lot more money than that. A lot more. Like you think if he... He'll be like... No. We live in Toronto here. Every team has a guy like this that goes out and plays well and then the people are like oh he's gonna make three million can a guy just sign for like one no does it happen we can't no we just build these guys up and they get them paid way

more than they deserve and they go somewhere else they don't live up to it it's called nhl business no but it doesn't happen if bobby is on the Arizona Coyotes or Florida. It does. You just don't pay attention to it. Not like this. Because you're a Leaf lover. Not like this. Okay.

Not like this. No, just like this. No. This is the way it works, Sammy. No. All right. So 18 games left. He's Labushkin, guys.

Labushkin. He got the money here, didn't he? We had the same conversation about Labushkin. We're like, he's going to be a UFA, and he's going to outprice himself. Lubushkin went and got 2.75 somewhere else, and now he's back on the Leafs and good on them. But it wasn't cheap. It cost him more assets to bring him back

because he didn't have the money to pay for him. And listen, I don't want to derail this conversation, but if this guy has a good run and a good finish he's gonna make two plus next year on a ufa deal so 27 year old echler who cleared waivers to start this year has 10 goals in a season it's like ah three million a year it's not what 14 goals yeah and scores two or three in the playoffs. 14 goals in how many games? Give me his numbers over the course of 82 games now. You think I can do math?

Yeah, you can. He's got a lot. He's very easy. He's got 10 and 40. That's 20 goals. Can he be a 20-goal scorer right now? No. I don't think so.

Then what are you putting him in a position to kind of be that important for you to begin with then? He's a good contributor. But I just feel like anytime somebody surprises that's a UFA in Leafs land, he immediately is worth $3 million somehow. I mean, it's up to him now. It's up to him and what he can look like from here on in and be a contributor in the first round. I'm not saying he will or he won't i'm saying if if he gets any consistency on on the good mcmahon that we've seen he's worth a hell of a lot more than 1.2 million it's funny um to to another team you know i saw some quote where he was asked about like when you

when you got that hat trick or whatever did it just click for you and he was like no he's like you know like maybe i felt a little better about my spot on the team, but I've kind of felt the same about my game. He thinks this is who he is. This is not like he's having a blip. He's like, finally, I'm here now. There's a presence with him a little bit. Finally, somebody noticed.

Yes, exactly. It's like, okay, it's working. I don't know. I don't know what category you put it in. Cocky or arrogant or just extremely confident. In a way that works for you, right? So I'm okay with it. Let me put it this way.

If Bobby McMahon plays well enough to earn $2.5 million per season with another team the rest of this year, because the Leafs won the Cup and he won the consmite, that's like, let's do it. Honestly. It'd be enough just winning a first round. No.

Well, I mean, how many goals do you have to score in the first round to get $2.5 million? I don't know. They won their first one last year. No one seems to give a damn. Two and a half might be a stretch. Yeah. But 1.8, two, he's in the ballpark here.

He's UFA. He's free for any other team to pick him up. Yeah. Just got to outpay. Yeah. So, listen, I'm not saying he's Labushkin going to make 2.75 because Labushkin had to also be a right-handed defenseman who are at a premium right now.

Love Bobby, though. Bobby has come a long way. He really has. All right. New guys? A couple new additions. New additions. You guys want to go to Sheldon

or you want to get some thoughts out early? Go Sheldon. Sure. you guys want to go to Sheldon or you want to get some thoughts out early? Go Sheldon. Sure. I think both guys are just, well, they're different. Obviously you've got Edmondson with a ton of experience in the league and Dore not as much. Both guys to me are just very smart to know exactly who they are and what they need to do on the ice.

Edmondson, you come to expect it. You know, those guys want to do on the ice. Edmondson did come to expect it. Those guys won Stanley Cups and played deep in the playoffs a lot, and a veteran defenseman. But Doerr, I'm just really impressed with his overall awareness and intelligence on the ice. He made some great plays today. I think there was one on the penalty kill. I think there's a read there.

We need to get him to close on that quicker. But I thought throughout the game, he had really good sticks. He's in good positioning for a guy that has no practices and doesn't, you know, is learning our system, you know, this morning on video. And then have to play the center ice position. You know, I thought he did a really good job. So I like what both guys bring. Doer at a little over 11 minutes.

I don't know. What did Kevin Biaxa call him? The fire hydrant or the, what was his nickname for him? Oh, the pit bull. The pit bull. The pit bull. Yeah. And he said, he said, I don't know if he would like that nickname.

You don't want to, he would love that nickname. It's an incredible nickname. Call me that. I'm not stopping you. No one, by the way, has ever called me that. I have never. Only thing I've ever called him, gold retriever. As loyal as hell.

Hush puppy. You know, the Dewar thing, though, did you happen to see the interview he gave before the game with Bukaskis? I did not see it. Oh, my God. The short? Yeah. You know, I mean. 37 seconds including him walking out and

three questions. Yeah, three questions, enter and exit, 37 seconds. All in 37 seconds. Yeah, and it was just like, this guy's dead serious about being a hockey player and he's honored to be here and to be a Leaf. Yeah, I like that. They asked him about what it's like being from the PAW, which is a small town, Manitoba.

And he was like, it's everything I am. You you know like i'm a scrappy hockey player from up north and they were because it was like back to you you know like he was very endearing to be honest we got too many guys that over talk oh too much i welcome that yes this guy he wants to go and play pal yeah leave the interviews to Mothy teammates. I actually think that's a really good point. This guy just wants to be a hockey player. He walked out. His face was soaking wet.

Like drenched from sweat. He warmed up like it was business. He looks like from central casting for Slapshot or Goon or something where, you know, you guys played so much hockey your life the quiet guy off the ice oftentimes yeah is the most squirreliest and weirdest on the ice is it patrick bateman from american cycle yeah he just he's you know he's got this sort of one length hair that's not been like toronto five yet he's just he's from the pa yeah love the guy yeah i got a new fan favorite so with him i will say he's not very big he's not very big and let's see like he he plays bigger

yes which is great yes but there's something to be said still about what is he 5 10 yeah yeah you know he's light he's plays, as you said, bigger, and he does everything he needs to do to stay in the league at his size. But every once in a while, it's nice when you got six-foot-two, six-foot-three guys. Didn't know that he played over 400 minutes with Reeves last year that they mentioned a few times on the broadcast. So I guess, you know, as much chemistry as you can have with Ryan Reeves, I guess they got a bit of chemistry together.

Where do you – It's all your snap and pass. It does nothing for me. Where do you guys ultimately see Dewar in terms of game one in the playoffs? Like, what is... What's the ideal? Yeah, he'll play fourth line.

And camp at three? Yeah. I actually really like, and I've had this conversation a couple of times today, Nyes and McMahon are both rookies, but they're both kind of big and hardworking guys with some, you know, whatever.

I like that camp frees them up to do their thing. I know he's not going to help them offensively, but you're paying camp $2.5 million or whatever, 2.25. He's been a part of this for years now. He's played 15, 16 minutes a night in previous years. You can play him a 3C with those two guys and let them, you know, be involved. For me, I i understand it's best case scenario probably if he's your fourth line guy but yeah doer's gonna play fourth line set tavares moves back in he scores the game winning

goal uh hey don't meet tavares yarn crock you ever see that in the first round no no i mean it's possible like marner's gonna come back and bump nylander to me it's just i still want them across three lines those guys and to me it's just nice you do yeah i think once game one starts tavar just goes back into that 2c yeah i really you know i just said i like can't make a man nice and you can't put tavar back there that changes that he's also started a lot more power plays. Did you notice that? Yeah. I think he's better than Bertuzzi on the power play.

For sure. I do. I think he pops into the slot like when the puck goes low to Mitch. Like he's a stick better, a better option. We know we can finish in tight. Like Bertuzzi's good there, but I really like Tavares.

Maybe we got through the stretch there where we talked about every day how Bertuzzi was cursed and he would never score again. And then he scored a few, and we got through that. And now Keith's like, okay, now it's time to put the better player on the top power play unit again. So what was the, just to build up to Bertuzzi, so it was always a temporary thing, you think?

Or was there any long-term? No, I think it was a confidence thing. Try to get him in a better, like, hey, you're out sort of thing do you do you have a different feeling on that yeah i i just think it was probably a failed experiment yeah you don't think so you don't think bertuzzi's the guy there either but more because he's just can't do it in the same Bertuzzi or John can't do it as a second line guy to carry the offense you're saying both can't I'm just yeah I'm saying would yeah like John went an incredibly long time for for scoring even strength goals but is he can you build John back up so he can be a real threat on a second line again? Do you think they can?

I don't know where his legs are. You're not liking him lately, are you? No, no. I think he's slowed down, and I think there's some concerns there for sure. Made a nice play on Saturday. Beat whoever that was to the middle of the ice and bounce one in off his groin. Yeah, he'll get those goals, right? He'll get to the looping.

He'll get those goals, but those are the same goals that you want Gregor to score, like off your ass. Those are my goals. And they're good for Matthews and Tavares. I'm not saying you don't want them to score those goals. They're not coming in addition to the skill plays. They're not coming in addition. And that's where, again, Matthews and Tavares have to be,

they have to, like I've been watching Boston, you watch Florida, they move the puck. They get a really good push from their center ice positions as distributors. And, you know, this goes back to my long age old art you know that they just i know they can shoot the puck in the net but moving the puck seeing consecutive passes four five you don't think edmondson and labushkin are going to help that we'll get to the d yeah that's for me i. Yeah. For me, I'd like to see those guys really push in the next 15, 16 games

a real conscious effort to be distributors, to start really making plays and keeping plays alive. Do you think it's better for the team to ask guys to be what they've never been? Like John Tavares has never been that. You know what i think i think they're so talented yeah that if you really put an emphasis on on an ask and they consciously go out there and try to execute i think they're capable of doing anything yeah i was just thinking what you're talking like i think it's a reasonable question who do you think scores at a higher goals per game pace this season and

next? Is it Tavares or McMahon? You know, like you think so? Yeah. Tavares has just scored his 20th goal. He's probably going to finish the year at 25. Yeah.

Second half of the year has slowed down from the start. Yeah. He's still on pace for under 60 points for the season, which would be the first. Listen, you're right. He's minus 130 on that, I'm going to lay out a limb here, but that's DeVars. I think you're probably right, but I don't

think it's that big a gap. And also, if you flip their opportunities, it might be different. This will be his worst productive season since his rookie season, if I'm not mistaken, under 60 points, maybe 50, 55 in his rookie year person who saw his seven-year contract said the last two years i'm a little concerned yeah i think

we're seeing why um i don't think he's ineffective yet but how but is he strong enough to carry a second line behind matthews and and he he is right now when you look at the the options but is that ideal for a team that's trying to compete for a Stanley Cup? No. But then are you making a point that just the Leafs are screwed? I don't know if they're screwed, but... Yeah, I don't know if they're screwed unless John can pick it up. And I'm not writing him off.

He's a competitor, and he trains his ass off, and there's some nights when he has live legs, and he can look the part. You and I talked to Chris Versteeg over the weekend on deadline day there. One of the things he said with camp was like, put him between a couple of offensive guys who just need a conscience out there put him between kneelander and domi or something like that i'm just trying to think of ways to get to vars onto the third line onto a

place where he plays yeah 16 minutes and can still whatever you don't have a lot of options at center so could you see something like that working listen i i can see a lot of juggling yeah that's what i can see still to be determined what what the lineup can look like in game one is anyone's guess truth truth serum time for me let's have it watching that game saturday night and you know leading up to the deadline you watch every game game, and you're like, ah, whatever they bring in here will improve this group. You're waiting on reinforcements. I watched Saturday night. I'm like, ah, boy.

Wish they had a couple reinforcements. Okay. Honestly. We can talk about that more after the break, but I just, I don't know. All right, which includes a conversation on Edmondson who made his Leaf debut Saturday night saturday night in general we'll talk about uh that edition after the break that kip real is justin bourne sammy mckee more real kipper and bourne after these words everything you need to know about the blue jays blair and

barker be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back. Edmondson made his debut. What caught me off guard was the price that the Cord group had to pay to get him in the lineup, which meant taking out Simone Benoit. How surprised were you to hear that? You know, I was surprised.

I was very surprised when I drew up my mock lineup. I thought they would have taken Lilligren out. But it does get to something which we actually meant to talk about on this show and didn't really which benoit hadn't been very good for a few weeks he had a tough couple of weeks with turnovers defending whatever and i think they probably noticed and said maybe we'd prefer a guy with nhl playoff experience just in case in that spot i i won't disagree with you in terms of maybe his play leveling off a little bit from for me though i i don't think it was that bad that he would have been the first guy i would have taken out of the lineup and i know it's a hard decision for sheldon and for me it could have easily been TJ Brody.

Easily. But you run the risk of also losing Brody. Yeah, that's a much bigger statement, right? That's a much bigger statement and you run the risk of losing him or putting him in a deeper hole to come out of and I don't think they were willing to risk that yeah it's your point though like it's he's been struggling he could probably use a little breather like a

little step out of the lineup lilligran i'm surprised was not the name that you mentioned um he's having his annual spring are we sure we can use this guy's run of games here i did hear a keith quote i don't know if it's just one that we have sammy but where he says that he uh he felt that him being taken out of uh or they traded for people to be in his spot in the playoffs last couple years and that had affected his confidence all right let's listen to that clip five i thought the sequence that led to this penalty is a tough moment in the game for for him and for our. Those are the kind of things we've got to keep working with him to eliminate from his game.

But I thought they had a real good first period for us, maybe not as good after that. But, again, I think that that will continue to grow, as we talked about this morning. I think this is a key time for Lily, right? If we go back the last two years, each time at the trade deadline, we've added and it's essentially pushed him out of the lineup, which I thought has affected his growth and his confidence

and all those kind of things. I felt at the time we did it out of necessity, because we needed to get deeper there. I think Lily's taken a step through this season. At times it's played really well. At times it's taken a step back. I think part of that probably is the trade deadline kind of hanging

over his head a little bit. We're through that here now. We've got a veteran player like Edmondson come in. That's why it was important for Lily to play tonight. This is kind of intriguing. They built the team out. This was the six guys that now was built. But we love the depth and what Ben was brought to us

and his ability to come in. But Lily playing tonight was important, and it's important for us to continue to work with him this was the six guys and how it was built is a huge line to me like Tree Living saw when he built the six guys Lilligren not coming out this was about improving on Benoit

and keeping another righty in the lineup at Lilligren for me at this point at this juncture of the season, to put Edmondson in and take Simone Benoit out is at best a wash. I don't see Edmondson as a huge upgrade from Simone Benoit. I don't. I see big. I see strong. But I also see it might be a little difficult to go from the corner

or the sideboards to in front of the net real fast here. Like, so left-handed shot. Now we're back to the same conversation before the trade deadline. You never, okay, you got labushkin but sure could have used maybe another right-handed shot and and of course and envisioned edmondson and benoit maybe maybe it's too much i i don't know but i just i just didn't see benoit coming out this this early. I think a lot of this vibe is how much we've all enjoyed the surprise that has been Benoit. And I understand that. I'm not saying Edmondson is fleet of foot or is in his prime or is whatever. He has dropped off since winning a cup.

Yeah, of course. Right? Of course. Yeah, he definitely has. I agree. But, you know, to be your third pair guy who kills penalties, you know, he's played, gone to two Stanley Cup finals in the past three years, or four years, sorry.

You know, that experience in those big games, under pressure, I think Benoit's probably more talented at this point in his career, but just to be able to be composed, and he's been in those moments in playoffs. No, I get that. I'm fine with it. I get that. But there's no thought of moments in playoffs. No, I get that. I'm fine with it. I get that. But there's no thought of you that, you know,

Lilligren hasn't been great for a long time here. I hated his penalty. Kipper, I've hated watching him play for a couple weeks here. And then you see his body language. The second he takes a penalty, he puts his head in the air. He's like hanging his head. He knows he's fighting it. He, to me, on a Saturday night in Montreal,

in Simone Benoit's hometown, I think Lilligren was eligible to be scratched. Yeah, that actually stinks that Benoit didn't get to play in Montreal. I know we're not doing contests here, and I know it's the National Hockey League, but to me, that was very unlike Keefe to do that. I think that they really are wary about saying to Lilligrant, again, we made a traded deadline.

Again, you're the guy who we don't think is enough. What are we doing here? We're trying to keep his confidence. I know, but like, I guess they held on to him past the deadline. A very obvious move for me is bringing Edmonton in. And I know Lilligrant shoots right, but at some point like regardless of which hand you shoot if you're hurting them every game you play Benoit and McCabe have played together all year I know he has been great but if I'm asking on a whole who I'd rather have in the lineup come game one of the playoffs Lilligren or

or uh Benoit I can tell you it's a very resounding Benoit. Yeah, I agree with that. It's just... Any concerns over the fact that you just don't have anyone who can skate and move the puck and break it out? Yeah, but does Lilligren really do that? When he's good, think good Lilligren does. Good Lilligren does for sure. Listen, again, I get depth. I get even Simone Benoit being the seventh defenseman,

if someone gets hurt and coming in and filling a good hole, I get all of that. But to your point, I still look at this blue line and go, oh my gosh, how much pressure is on Morgan Riley right now? Oh my God. Yeah, I mean, he might be the most important guy that has named Matthew Smarter goalie. There's no one B.

No. And that's what ultimately you would have hoped at some point that they signed Klingberg for that reason. Like you got to go back to September and go, why did they go get Klingberg? It's because he was a nice alternative to Morgan for that reason. Yeah. Like, you got to go back to September and go, well, why did they go get Klimberg? It's because he was a nice alternative to Morgan, even on the power play.

It's the Lilligren stuff, that he can move his feet, break pucks out, and yeah, do some power play stuff. And shoot the puck. Yeah. And just give a different look. Yeah. And, okay, it's fine you tried it. But then you're like, you gave up on it.

Yeah, you're like, yeah, we need to fill this problem. And then you filled it, and it didn't work out well, and then you got to write off his contract, but you didn't go out there and try to fill it in again. You know, I am more bullish on the Leafs than here in Sammy before the break. Like, I think they can beat that Boston team. I thought certainly some circumstances and some number of reasons didn't go great this week. I think they can beat that team.

But I do think that Tree Living's deadline said that he's hesitant about this team at best. And it's just they're not walking through that door. Whatever the reinforcements. And you look at that D court it's like this isn't good enough. It's not not good enough you're not going to make any judgments until you

get to see matthews marner and nylander uh back at the height of their game right that's that's when you go okay and a hot goaltender yeah and take your chances but you've got other you got 15 other teams are saying the same thing one of the things i think the leafs are betting on is more players who will not make the mistake and just hopes you hope you can hang around enough games that your guys can be the game breakers i think edmondson at least very much knows what he is i'm not a huge edmondson booster or anything but i think he at least knows how to be the guy they wanted in that spot. Big mean man.

Okay. We got a few minutes before we go to break again. Do you want to hear Keef on Dewar and Edmonton or do you want to go to goalie? Let's move on. Let's move on because we got to have a conversation on the goaltending situation because we are 18 games to go. I know.

And we've got Samsonov now with a 12-3 in his last 15. Wins and losses. What are we doing here? 2-37, 9-11. Now we're talking. Paper looks good. Yeah. Paper looks good.

At that arbitrary cutoff point, absolutely. So where are you now in terms of... Joe Wall's agent over here just... No, no, no. I just think it's really funny how all of a sudden we're looking for this. Here's the cutoff where he looks like a good goalie. Are you playing the next 18 games as if you are driving Samsonov to game one in the playoffs? Or is this 18 games to still give Wall a chance to regain and drive him into game one?

Yeah. Well, I think the way they used the goalies this week tells you what they thought of them going into this week. I think the way that this week went with these goalies may have changed some opinions, including my own, on what happens when we get to game one in the postseason. Now, I will say I am a big believer in look at the schedule you know like the seattle crack and won nine games and we went holy smokes then you go non-playoff teams capitals are hot

non-playoff teams the oilers win 16 straight i think they played two playoff teams i'm not about to say samson i was back because he beat buffalo in montreal and the other kid lost to the best team in the atlantic or second best. So, I don't know. I'm not sold either way. How about you? I, yeah, I can't buy into Samsonov right now. Not there yet. Some people are very there.

And I don't know if I will. Scarred? Are you just scarred from the early of the season? Yes. Sure. That's correct. Which is fair. Which is fair.

Samsonov had me after beating out Tampa Bay. Yeah. That's what he's going to have to do for me in the first round. Is come out of the first round being the goaltender and then I'm like, okay. But until then, I think it's open. I think, what do we got?

We got Philadelphia Thursday night. Yeah. That's Joseph Wall's start, in my opinion. Yeah. How about you? Yep. It's a big question. It depends if they've changed their mind to being kind of pro Samsonov or not.

Do we know who they have Saturday? Carolina. And their fancy new St. Pad's jerseys. Ooh, tough call. To me, I think, and Bunkus has talked about this a lot on this show. He talked about it a lot on Leafs Talk. It's very clear who they want to win this battle. They want Wall to win the battle.

Absolutely. But when push comes to shove, I don't think you can let that get in the way of who's, if he's playing better, it's too bad. You're right. And I think Wall's a better goalie. When do you decide better? Do you decide it? It ain't now.

It's not now? It's not beginning of April. Whoever they play last game of the season. April 16th against Florida. April 17th against Tampa. Then we decide who's starting game one. Do you not think that's the correct answer? Because I do.

I think it's the correct answer. Because one of these guys, neither has been good enough to say, who cares what happens down the stretch? He's our guy. Yeah. We care what happens down the stretch here at Real Kipper and Bourne. I agree. Quick hour, Moist.

I know. Very quick hour. Do we mention quick hour do we mention doer uh all right we're just getting started we kick it into our national hour after the break where we'll welcome in jeff chickren former nhl roommate of mine and panthers tv analyst. We'll get our thoughts on a potential Toronto, Florida first round. We can't talk about Toronto on the national. Our CRTC is going to get called back. But JBNR are fine. It's you they hate out west.

That's true. That's absolutely legit. 100% true. All right. Back after these words. We'll be right back.