Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Attacking the Avs

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' home matchup against the Colorado Avalanche in the first half of a back-to-back. They discuss Joseph Woll getting the net, the schedule tightening up, playing with 'predictability,' and the keys to slowing down MacKinnon and Makar. Later, sports orthopedic surgeon Dr. Jason Smith (31:32) discusses Gabriel Landeskog's injury and what boxes are left to check in his long journey back to a potential recovery in the playoffs. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam weigh the Leafs' options on a Matthew Knies extension.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Right back at you. Game day for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I've got a new haircut. Look great. 16 degrees outside. We could have golf today. Bring us in the air. I got purple on bring on Easter. What is better than that that going into tonight's contest between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Colorado? Avalanche, I'm Nick Kiprios Justin Bourne Sammy McKeid Derek Brandeo Jake Schultz Here for the next two hours including this hour that is live on sports at 590 the fans sports net 360 and sports net plus Leaf hour edition jam-packed today including a Doctor doctor doctor segment. Dr. Jason Smith our orthopedic guru because there's lots of talk about

Gabriel landis cog making a comeback, but not just any comeback. We're talking about a comeback of a cartilage transplant Surgery And that's this guy. That's where my expertise just falls off Yeah, no, I've Do hockey Doctors gonna tell us what's going on Uh top of the hour jason your co-host Coming In Hot Sends podcast will join us as well.

We'll talk about those Ottawa Senators, the Montreal Canadiens last night. Critical game that ended up in favour of the Montreal Canadiens, but we'll get his thoughts as well. And then Aaron Ward, Stanley Cup champion with Carolina Hurricanes. I don't know if anybody's noticed, but they've been really, really good since trading away the ranting in headache according to them. Well, they had won three in a row before they traded them. And then they traded them and they won four in a row.

So they're just hot. They're just playing well. That's the way she goes. Okay. Yeah. What version of the Toronto Maple Leafs do we expect tonight? Versus a very good team before we get into that. Okay. Can I ask you something anything? because you just mentioned the Habs and the Sens game last night, which I watched a third period and You know, I thought it was a fantastic crowd and the Montreal crowd is

Out of this world and like the goal pop when Nick Suzuki pulls that off of all marks pad and jams at home they go absolutely mental tickets are cheap there is that why there's no fans in the lower bowl like what like why does it look like yeah that's a great like what are they they're just they're giving them away for free out front like I don't understand why that looks so much better Corinne our sports net makeup artist Saw her today She tells me she went to the Canadians versus the Florida Panther game cool good game. Yeah, really good game. They won, of course and

She said they did the wave For ten minutes heard that the wave for 10 minutes. I heard that. The wave for 10 minutes. And my first thought is... It's a little too long. She was telling you as a positive, and I heard you be like, that's too bad. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm like, OK, once or twice. But if I see that thing coming and I got to stand up again, I've had enough. Yeah. 10 minutes. And she said it was fantastic. But your point is?

That she's younger than I am. No, well that for one. But it ain't happening at Scotiabank Arena. But I thought on Monday night, the St. Pat's game, I thought the crowd was excellent. And I think probably because it was St. Patrick's Day, like a little half an hour later start, potentially a little more Greece involved, people were fired up. Greece is the key. There was a wave that happened the leafs game. All right, but I just you know, I watched that crowd Is it different? Do we why does it look like that? Do we know it's different?

What the Montreal the Leafs like is it? Oh my god. Yeah, you watch the third period that crowd It was like a final game the way they were popping the bigger question is like it Does it seem like there's more jerseys in the lower bowl there? Yes. Because it's also businesses presumably buying tickets there. Maybe there's more passionate people in Montreal. Maybe they're just less jaded.

They've only really, they've only recently sucked for the largest stretch of their history and Lee fans have done it since 67 there listen, it's almost as if the Lee fans are Like they're willing to go out there and cheer and look like normal fans But they they kind of come across like they're waiting for something bad to happen

Well, they are fair so They kind of come across like they're waiting for something bad to happen You can't really compare Lee fans to any other fan I guess you're right because they've been stung the worst in the league All right, but I do okay last thing on this. I do think they brought this up I know I do think what you know that if you had a Number of very passionate fans the Toronto Maple Leafs if you had like a lot of the true fans of the world It would look a lot like that of course So just saying that maybe they're there the fans exist so the corporate people in Montreal are way bigger fans of the Habs and the Corporate fans in Toronto. Anyways, move on. This quick thought. Okay

Overall thoughts going in tonight coming off a game Against a team that didn't fare very well And by the way didn't even look remotely the same 24 hours later last night at Madison Square Gardens Yeah, I don't know the The thought tonight is here's what's interesting. Joseph Wohl is going to get the start. That to me is a noteworthy development. I think it's noteworthy that David Camp doesn't seem to be drawing back in

for three straight healthy scratches. But you know, he makes 2.2 or whatever he makes as a centerman. It's kind of a lot of games for a healthy camp to not play That's all I got wall in particular is is noteworthy yesterday in our national hour if you didn't have a chance to listen Steven Valacat was as good as he has ever been on our show and he Right away did the the Joseph Wall stole ours and he did not hesitate it was Joseph Wall should be the guy. He said that by bad start percentage Joseph Wall has way fewer he has a I think he 18% of his starts are bad starts and I think he

said stole ours was like 27 he said maybe Stolarz best game is better, but he's saying that you're more likely to get a reliable goal tending performance out of wall. You think this tips the hand of now they're shaping wall into a chance to run with this thing or is it just simply you'd rather have Stolarz at the Garden tomorrow night against the New York Rangers because the last time he went in there it was a 3-2 win and he was lights out. Yeah they're both gonna play back to back so it's very possible that they just said who suits which game I think coming off stole ours is not great night in Colorado last week I think that

has to kind of play into not giving him another chance at Colorado protecting him and feeling good about Joseph Wall right now and then putting stole ours in a position to succeed again in New York tomorrow night. Would you like to hear Borube's justification for starting clip five, please, Derek? No, clip five. We're coming up in five, four, three. Talk amongst yourselves. All right. Here's my thoughts on Joseph Wohl's season.

It has gone exactly as you would want it to go for him. Who, you know, he was injured in the early part of the season. But you know, one of the questions we had about him is, can he handle a starter's workload? Real heavy game, game, game. And when Stolarz got hurt, it forced him into a spot where he played a lot of hockey in a row, right? Didn't get a ton of relief. He got through that unhurt and playing well. Now Stolarz is back.

He's kind of splitting the starts again. He's been really put in a position now to succeed here. And I feel pretty good about where his game is at. Keep in mind going into this year, you would have wanted him to be the guy as the younger guy with the longer contract right we now have clip 5 can you play clip 5 lizard no wall reason why he got this one well of the back to back I liked his last two games so gonna go with him again tonight it's never

it's never an algorithm doing things just like I just like I mean he went pretty simple He went with stole ours two stars in a row two of the bigger games of the year with against Florida When he lost not his fault lost the game against Ottawa Saturday night. They lost the game Goes to wall against Calgary in a huge game. They get the win I think you go back to a guy and you kind of see if you can put a couple wins in a row together because We're now I think I saw David Amber send a tweet today We were exactly one month away from the start of the game Stanley Cup playoffs Yeah

I think you got to figure out if a guy can play a couple in a row and win a few games in a row here, so I think the competition's on I in a row and win a few games in a row here. So I think the competition's on. I not to kind of derail this into a bigger look here, but I'm going to do it anyways. Like if you really truly look at the schedule moving forward, it just puts a cherry on top that this was a credit schedule for the Toronto Maple Leafs all season long. I'm like, okay, so they got Colorado tonight at home, then they got a back-to-back in New York, Nashville, then they come back Tuesday,

and then they gotta go out west. Yeah, and it's like, that sucks. They actually have four back-to-backs to end the season here. Whatever, whatever, like, Four, brutal. Whatever this team felt like coming off of a fairly normal kind of feeling of being at home this last week because we did the game in Utah and then at least they got home Thursday, Saturday, Monday home, fit a practice in there somewhere,

kind of rest a little bit. They gotta go back out there and go all hairy again. It's actually brutal, cause it's a back to back. And then the second game being in New York, I'm sure they'll fly right to Nashville, right? They're not gonna come home and then fly out to Nashville the next day. So then you're in Nashville, you come home,

they go to the West Coast. Yeah, one game against Philly. Go to the West Coast and you get San Jose then a back-to-back LA Anaheim You come home you get a couple of games at home over a week stretch Maybe and then you go to Florida and you get a back-to-back there you come home and you do a Montreal Carolina back-to-back That's a tough Road in then they finish the year with Buffalo and Detroit. At Buffalo versus Detroit. Do you see now looking at this schedule that a Stoller's or a Wall can go like a week or 10 days and get into this groove? You know, there's 15 games left.

You're already splitting the back to backs. So there's four and four. And now we're down to seven games out of the 15 left. So it's probably going to be four and three. These guys are probably going to split at eight. Yeah, that's the way I see it. Yeah. And I was just looking at that schedule going, where do you fit it in? Where do you fit in?

Oh, now I'm going to let one guy get hot. It's just it's not set up. Mm hmm. Yeah. No, it's not not ideal for that, is it? OK. That is a crazy schedule. Yeah. As far as the team following up a feel good Monday night against Calgary, how important is the look tonight for you?

Very important. You know, the bigger picture is that over this run of play, they played some test games. You said this year, how many games do you think are measuring stick games? 20? 15? Less than 20. Yeah. And they played Tampa Bay or sorry, Florida, Vegas, Colorado, and they got smoked, smoked, smoked. So yeah, I would certainly say that how they look tonight does matter. Florida game was close. Florida game was close. Smoked is I think a little

bit. Yeah. Potentially aggressive. But it was, but they got beat. And Kipper didn't think it was as close as we did. But I think just, for me, in all those games, they just spend way too much time in their own zone. That's all. And then sustained for check Again like Can we have a game where they they get 35 shots on goal? Is that possible? I know no, I have to always be around like four or five a period seven a period I have a game where they just Get pucks to the net with some sustaining Time so I did this like AWS I still thing

I think I mentioned it the other day, but just about how much they control the play they're like 24th in the NHL in in terms of this ice tilt stat Which is just how much you guys are taking into the opposition, they are very often getting it taken to them. Do you two have that list or no? Yeah, I can pull it up in one sec.

I wanna hear the top teams. Yeah, oh yeah, you'll recognize them. The other piece of that is that they are fifth in the NHL in four-check chances. So they are a dump and chase team and they get chances off the four check. Is that enough? So they that sounds like one and done. Yes sure if that's one way to take it they do create off the four check but then they don't maintain possession. Nothing. No second, third

opportunities, no waves. Yeah right. Okay as of... You would think that the way they've tried to play in years past under Sheldon Keefe was more of the wave way Right where they tried to hold a seventh last year where they'd want to have the puck a lot more They want the regroups they want to hold on to it They wanted you know cycle it more as opposed to getting it on the end glass Hammering a guy through it and putting it to the front of the Top five teams are Carolina, Floridaida colorado and edmonton Somehow nashville's in there, but I think it's because they're losing all the time and they're constantly that score effect. Yeah

I think sometimes they look like there's a lot of pressure no matter where they are No matter how much duress they're under or how much time that they have that Craig Brewery is telling them pucks to the net pucks to the net and There's times. Yes, that is important. You need to recognize when It's better than a turnover, but there's also times when it could be look for something really bad play either a Goalie absorbs it for a face-off or you actually turn the puck over yeah well Washington is not very high up in this and they tend to be a look for a shot quality team they get the highest like quality that's what

Valley was saying yesterday that they don't warm the goalies up right right yeah that was part of the Washington conversation we had with him yesterday right and that checks out with their numbers too. So, okay Did you want to play the the clip first clip from? Ruby on following up from Monday's win. I thought it was a good good clip from Ruby. So clip one let's do it if you look at the first period and just the predictability and their directness of You know

Going south going north putting pucks at the net recovering them in you know, going south, going north, putting pucks at the net, recovering them, and, you know, not hesitating, moving it quick, shooting it again, recovering. We're on our toes and, you know, we want a lot of loose puck recoveries, a lot of shot attempts. We didn't, you know, we went back with the puck, we moved it up, got it going north, you know, and we're gonna with the puck, we moved it up, got it going north, you know, we're gonna do the same thing tonight. Can I ask you two a question?

Mm. Is predictable, predictable is good? Yes, in his mind. Why is, is predictable? He's not talking about the opposition predicting, he's talking about his, the players on his team, the teammates Having a predictability amongst each other. I gotta say and I've changed my stance on this

I do think it is good like I think it's important that Everyone's on the same page and you can trust what your teammate is gonna do and where they're gonna be a lot of hockey I've come to learn and coaching is like you just have to throw your fastball down the gut Sometimes see if they can hit it and just throw it when you know it's coming when people say and and speak of identity it's based off the predictability of what you are so you you can't have an identity if you cannot be somewhat predictable on how you look or play

a hockey club. So I think that's exactly what he wants is a predictability to be a hard team that for checks a hard team to get pucks to the net and then have your second and third opportunities. Don't hesitate. One thing you hear people say around the NHL is that there are no secrets in the NHL anymore. Everyone has video, everyone has stats. 32 teams play two systems between the 32 teams, essentially. You know, either a one, two, two, or a one, three, one,

basically, they four check one of two ways, and you know what your opposition does. It's not possible on a hockey bench say this line is gonna play at this and you're gonna play at that Like you see you kind of have to be like they know what we're trying to do Let's see if they can stop it and that's some of the Leafs Hmm, I guess one of one I have more of because when you hear that that's immediately you think like I would like to catch them off Guard here. They're a little bit unpredictable at times would be okay But you're counting on the guys who are elite offensive players to do unpredictable things with once you create those touches well said Somewhere out there. There's an argument that if you're talking about three or four or five of the best players in the

universe Colorado has two of them. Let's get Craig Ruby Ruby's thoughts on McKinnon and kale mccarr He just slowing down McKinnon. Well, I don't know but if you find out before the game you can let me know You know, I you know, you just got to try to stay on top of them the best you can it's just like playing Mcdavid right there you got great speed and they're competitive guys with tons of skill. You know, it's about trying to slow them down, picking them up in a neutral zone,

trying to get on top of them, deny them the puck as much as possible, take time and space. It's all the same things that every coach says. What follow up on that? How do you do it with McCarran? He's coming from the back end. Probably even more difficult. He's, a great player and again it's a lot of the same things.

Just trying to get above him as much as you can and trying to make him work in his own zone. I think tonight we've got to make this team play in their own end as much as possible. And then it's important when that's happening, that we can get some good line changes and get fresh people on the ice and make them extend their shifts as much as possible. Two key points. Yeah. Colorado is the second best high danger chance team in the NHL. They create a ton.

Second best rush chance team, first best cycle chance team. Leafs are just gonna have to have the puck a lot more. Yeah. And you gotta just, you gotta get it. You gotta keep it out of his hands and McCarr's as much as he can here. And that's really on now.

For me, Austin Matthews and Mitch Marder, they have to have the puck. You know, sometimes Mitch gets lost because he doesn't, he doesn't get the puck enough. And I thought against Colorado, or I'm sorry, against Calgary, Matthews had jump for me. He had a forcefulness to him that, you know,

there's a fine line between waiting for the puck and then saying, damn it, I'm gonna go get it myself now. I'll just go get it. And Matthew's, as we know, has been one of the best over his career, taking pucks away. Haven't seen a lot of that this year, but that's the philosophy you have to have against this team, just have the puck more than they do. Yeah, yeah, but that's the philosophy you have to have against this team.

Just have the puck more than they do. Yeah. Yeah. And that was how the Leafs wanted to defend in previous years. It was like, all right, we're just going to try to have the puck more. And it can be challenging when the other team also has really good players. So yeah, we'll see if this north south thing, how it holds up against Colorado again. I do feel like the Leafs are finding their game a little bit. I know that they've they'd lost some games recently a lot of games

But I found that they were playing good teams It was post trade deadline things were kind of coming together looked great against Calgary I think they'll give Colorado a good game tonight and the Avs obviously buzzing as much as anyone Macar on pace for 30 this year. He has 25 goals. He's actually buzzing as much as anyone. Macar on pace for 30 this year, he has 25 goals. He's a joke. He's so good. There's been 17 30 goal seasons by NHLers in the history of the league.

Demon? Do you guys wanna test you guys? So is it like Ray Bork counts for five or something? Yeah, Ray Bork's had a few of them, yeah. Just, how did you phrase that again? 30 goal seasons for D. This is 17. 17, okay. Yeah, Ray Borch said a few of them, yeah. How did you phrase that again? 30 goal seasons from D. 17. 17, okay.

Alright, 17 in total. Bobby Orr got some. Yeah, Koff. Yep, Koffee has the record. 48 goals. Wow. 48 goals, he had in... Let's remember if 30.

Roy Leach ever? Nope. No, I don't think Brian Leach ever had 30. There's one really sneaky one, Kevin Kevin that you would have played with Kipper Not Hatcher Kevin Hatcher Kevin Hatcher He scored 34 goals boys in 3293 yeah, yeah, that's Dennis Pauvin?

Yes, sir. Two times, 30, no, three times, 30, 31, 31. So, there you go. Who else? Mike Green, Phil Housley had one. Doug Wilson had one. There you go. Randy Carlisle, did he ever come close?

Randy Carlisle. He had a couple of big years. He won a Norse, didn't he? Anyways, so, Kyle McCarr is on pace to join that group. It's not a... That's a... That's a league company. It's really amazing.

It's actually pretty amazing that he hasn't done it already. If you think about how many times he shoots it in the net, but I think if I'm power ranking my favorite guys to watch in the league outside of McDavid, who I don't know if you saw the goalie score last night. No one's ever No one's ever gone faster. I said to you guys like do you think you could defend him with a pistol? No, like if you're playing D and they give you a gun But I Think my car is in my top five here guys to watch the league. Love watching him play. I agree with that.

And he was so good for Canada. He has the second-larest tests on the McDavid goal. It's just... those guys are so rare. And then we're watching Quinn Hughes again last night. I'm watching them and I'm like, this guy's just... he's on another planet. It just feels... He was so good last night. It feels so different. The whole game is like circles around him, but it's not with speed.

He just seems to have it all the time. His pace. Yeah, but it's a different pace. It's a lateral pace. It's a patient pace. And I know Morgan Reilly can't be that, but he's gonna have to find a way to still stand out amongst this blue line core for the Maple Leafs.

He still needs for the Leafs to have great success. He's going to have to find to be the best version that he can to do that for the Leafs. I wonder if getting comfortable with Brandon Carlo can free him up. They say him just be like, I trust my guy and I'm gonna be a go for it. It's just so unreal. Kipper, it's just so unrealistic.

To talk Quinn Hughes and then be like, can Morgan Riley say it? He just can't. We've seen it. We know what it looks like when it's at its best and it hasn't been at its best in a long time. And it might be on the other side of the beach. You have to go back to that first round against Tampa Bay. He was pretty good for a five game stretch prior to the four when they went out west just before they shut down

Yeah, he was up the rink a lot creating. That's what he has to do He has to make a conscious effort to skate up the rink tonight right just have have somewhat of a look of have somewhat of a look of pace of play for the best version. Get involved. Be an option on the offensive side of things. Get up there. I think that would be great. Did you want to play a clip from the last time they played?

Leafs in an avalanche? Cause it wasn't that long ago when he talked about it a little bit today. Clip two, please, Derek. Well, I look back to second period, you know, and that's a good second period team Colorado, as we are too, but I thought they three quarter iced us in that period and put us on our heels for the, for the period, you know, and that's draining. That takes a lot of, a lot of energy

out of you for the third. And I didn't feel we had enough juice in the third, you know, I know we had the lead, but we lost it. And lost it and you know, we've got to do a better job of that tonight. And they do it, they're good at it. And we got to make sure that we're doing a better job of that. For those looking for an explainer on what three quarter ice. It was that's why I cut it. It's like, they have so much pressure that you're punting, you're punting it out into the neutral zone, they're regrouping, you're diving into your bench for a change and they're coming back. They're playing on three quarters of the ice.

You can't get it back to the other side. Makes sense. Never heard that before. No, I haven't either. If you truly go back and now break down games, go watch how many unforced errors lead to a three quarter ice. Yeah. And it messes up changes.

I can't tell you how many times you watch the Leafs in control, maybe a D to D, then their heads up. They step the feet. Then Juan Myers pull the pin on the thing. Then they go to their 30-foot launch, and it's like, oh, right back in our zone. And it's the end of those guys' shift who are breaking it out

Meanwhile the other teams coming on the rink they're dumping it in your guys are now tired You're under pressure on a breakout you mentioned quickly before there's a couple things I want to get before we get to dr. Dr. But you mentioned the Benwah thing mm-hmm, and it's forcing all of recman-larson plan is offside And I would say that Benoit recently, outside of the Superman Punch and him just jumping and beating the crap out of Dryden Hunt,

he's been in Leaf fans crosshairs in terms of a bit of a whipping boy right now. Is it, like is Benoit on the, sorry, Meyer's coming in on the right side so that all of Rekhman-Larson can flip over to the other side. Is that enough of a benefit to try to change it? It is. It's a great question.

And I think an important one for the least is, is Benoit better enough than Myers that you want to make OEL worse? Yes. And I don't know that you're not better off with the best of OEL and Myers. To me, Myers and Benoit, I like Benoit more. Yeah, me too.

But Myers is long-rangey, defense-first kind of guy. Also, I kind of secretly like that he wants to pound the pill every time it comes to him. Oh, he loves the hammer. If it's anywhere near him, he shoots it. I kind of like that. So to me, they're kind of close, and I think OEL should play on a strong side you Kip

Ben was actually stood out for me the last little he's been better. He's been better, but He's only better when like other guys are worse, too. I don't think McCabe's had a good week. Mm-hmm better Everybody's was better in Calgary. I get that but I think prior to that he's a little shaky and I think prior to that he's a little shaky and I Think if those guys can step up then there could be more Better pickings to your point Yeah on on where you want to put certain people here But I think collectively this blue line has to have a really good

Solid look tonight. Yeah, and then I do know that Myers fought the San Jose guys at Ferraro's. Is that who he fought? Yeah after he hammered somebody. Yeah which is good but Benoit kind of wants to do that. He kind of wants that's part of his game. You get the feeling he's a pretty popular teammate. You know I think that probably matters as well. I don't know anything about Meyer but just every time you see him talk, he seems to joke about, I don't know, he seems like a funny guy.

I'm projecting my own feelings about how I would love to hang out with him on the team but it just seems like he's that kind of guy to me. Our very own Jason Buchlas wrote an article on sportsnet.ca on Matthew Nyes and where he projects him to to be and talked about perhaps his next contract. Do you guys want to get into that? After we finished with the doctor after the jock we'll have time. Yeah, also talk about why Josh Levo should come back Oh my god, I know he is two goals from the KHL scoring record HLK HL goals record 47 and 60 or something 48 and 60 games record. He has 47 and two games to go.

And he's only 31 years old. He's going to be the star of the Trump Putin Cup. Whose record is he breaking? Is he following him around? Sergey Moisakhin is whose record. Ah yes, of course. He's actually I he is a Established scoring leader in the K

Sergey, okay. My first time let's take a quick break. He's an eater when we return Moisi your favorite medical segment And now podcast history Dr. Jason Smith will get into Gabriel Landiscaug and the odds. Okay. You want to do a bet three, six, five odd? How much of a chance do you give Gabriel Landiscaug to resume his career? I don't know. Save it.

Okay. Save it for the break. Okay. All right. Dr. Jason Smith, Dr. Dr. Dr. Up next. Get smarter. When you listen to hockey talk, the hockey PDO cast with Demetri Filipovich subscribe and download the show on apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, the doctor will see you now.

Welcome in Dr. Jason Smith, orthopedic surgeon to the stars. How's it going, buddy? Great, man. Beautiful day. I know. I know. I know. There's a fairly big story when it comes to a certain player, and heart and soul guy.

Everybody knows Gabriel Atlantis. Cog has not played since they've won the Stanley Cup. You know, Doc, when we think of knee injuries, we think of anterior cruciate ligament, meniscus, MCL, but I have no idea what cartilage transplant surgery would mean not only to a hockey player, but to anybody here. And that's all we really know,

but what can you tell us about this type of surgery, this injury? Yeah, so, and this is a big one, right? So let's go back a second, right? So in 2021, this guy signs this eight year, $56 million contract, seven million a year. He's the face of the team, going to be the captain, like unbelievable. And then in 2022, he's putting up good numbers, he's having a good season.

But then in March, I mean, March, so close to the playoffs, this guy has, you know, the knee cleanup surgery, has surgery on his knee, makes it back for the playoffs and wins a Stanley Cup, like, unbelievable, like, this guy, you know, is on top of the world. But doesn't make the start of the next season. And then in October has another knee surgery.

Misses the entire next season. And then he's going like, what are you gonna do? Like he tried to get back, he's had the simple surgeries, you know, these knee scopes, these clean outs, like whatever you're doing for cartilage or whatever you're doing for his knee. And so then in May, 2023, he undergoes a cartilage transplant. Like, so let's be honest, this is a Hail Mary,

you know, the simple things, the injections, the cleanups, these things that we hear about all the time, the guys get back from, this hasn't worked. So they're like, well, you're at the start of an eight-year contract, like you can't just pack it in here, like what are we going to do? So now you start throwing Hail Marys. So what he had done, and I don't have any very specific knowledge from this, you know, I'm not his doc, I didn't talk to the surgeon, I don't know. But what I think he had was, so a piece of cadaver bone with the cartilage on it was put into his knee to replace the area of the injured cartilage. So that's the procedure that is done in, you know, sports in life when you have these big cartilage defects that the simple stuff just doesn't help. But you know, that's May 2023 and now like we're almost three years since this guy has played.

So we want to get into the issues. Let's talk about this. So as far as I know, that's what's been done. And that's a bit of a Hail Mary at the best of times, let alone for a professional hockey player. So is there risk then with him coming back? Now, I'm going to say maybe the most ignorant thing, but like cadaver bone is fine.

Does it hold up as well as had it been his own bone? What is he going to be dealing with as he gets back here? That's the thing, right? These things are at this point, they're like coin flips. You hope because the bone has to heal and then the cartilage over top of it has to be robust and he's got to somehow get his body, his quad, his core, his everything back and then he's got to figure out how to play hockey after three years. I missed two Saturday skates, I'm useless, let alone three years and trying to get back to professional hockey.

So, I mean, I am cheering for this guy, my God, because if this guy gets back, that's amazing. Right. So, Doc, we've seen videos of Landis Kha going up and down the ice, and he looks okay. He looks like everybody else, but can you replicate anything remotely close to a game when you're in a corner and you got a guy 240 pounds

and he's pushing off of you and now the torque is all on that knee? Yeah, it's, you know, until you see that, you don't know. Yeah, he can rip up and down the ice all day long. But you know, the guy plays a hard game. Power forward, he's in the corners, he's driving the net. He's not just coasting around the center of the ice. Like this guy's gonna have to play his game

where he's gonna have to have that 240 pound defenseman and push off on him. He's gonna have to drive him to the net. And you don't know how these things hold up like in general We put these things in so yeah You can go walk to the golf course and you can go do your yoga on Saturday Like that's where we're putting in a lot and we're relatively confident that they can hold up But asking this to hold up in a professional hockey player at 32 years old like again I

am cheering for this guy and I hope he makes it back because I mean he's got a mountain to climb. Yeah I imagine he can't like go to like farm boy and select the finest cartilage from the former Olympian or something it's just kind of you get what you get and you don't get upset. You know that's it. Yeah, you're right. So the number of variables there the number of things that have to go right to get in the right cartilage. It's the right shape size for you. The bone integrates perfectly.

Like all these things that have to go right for this to happen is there's a ton of them. Yeah, but so just one more for me and that is there's a ton of them. Yeah, go ahead. So just one more for me, and that is, if by chance this thing does work for him, does this change the way you guys look at this or this surgery, or do you look at it and go, like you just mentioned, all the stars aligned in this scenario, but that certainly doesn't mean the next guy, it'll be the same.

Yeah, like I wouldn't be suddenly telling GMs to sign every guy that's having this procedure, you know, if this guy makes it back, you know, all the planets lined and worked out. It's hopeful for other people and these one-off stories, you know, are always super motivating and gives guys hope. But I'm not banking on this one yet. No. Well, like you said, Doc, we wish him the best of luck because he is one of the good guys there and he was fun to watch and he's just was in the heart of his career and we'd

love to see it all come back one more time for him. Doc, thanks for doing this pal really appreciate it Absolutely anytime We didn't open up the show with Okay, now you're good to go go back to doing surgery or whatever you want to do Alright Jason Smith Orthopedic surgeon Wow so

That's insane. Oh, yeah. No, it's it's crazy what they can do and I blew up my ACL. Yeah in 1984 Mm-hmm and back down they use electrical tape to 84. Back then they used electrical tape to fix it. Elmer's glue? Yeah. I had a cowboy for a doc. Just like wild, wild west.

Don't worry about it kid, I'll look after you. And that was the extent of what I knew was going to happen to my knee. Yeah, I'll look after you. I'll look after you. Oh my god. I get to the Philadelphia hospital. I'm on the gurney or whatever you call that thing. And right before they put me under,

he just holds up what looks like a chicken breast and says, hey kid, look at your new knee. And it was a cadaver and Achilles tendon. And it was a cadaver and Achilles tendon. Wake up and really have no idea what just happened. And it was a fairly new procedure at the time where they take a cadaver and build your new knee. And at no point- Averacadabra.

At no point was there ever a discussion with me or my parents who ended up coming down. It was just like, you need me, I got the knee. Yeah, I got the knee for you. Yeah, what are you gonna do about it? And apparently as I got, as I went years later, even after retirement, I kind of researched it and there was, there was quite a percentage of rejections.

Oh yeah. To foreign objects. So having your knee rejected. In your knee. Yeah. And like to Doc's point, the stars aligned for me because I never had dealt with any swelling. It's never given me any pain.

I ran the New York Marathon 10 years ago on the knee. What a cowboy you had. You ran the New York Marathon 10 years ago on the knee. What a cowboy you had. You ran the New York Marathon 10 years ago? Yeah I think so. Yeah 47. Wow. And I don't know maybe I was just lucky but until this day my surgical knee is tighter and stronger than my good knee. Yeah. You know, that's great. That's cool that yours worked out. This landisgog thing here, I think it's good to have just had the dock on for people to get perspective that this is not a guy who it's just okay.

The normal thing has recovered and it's ready to go and you're going to go back. It's like, should he do this or should he not? He's young. He wants to do it, it'll torture him for the rest of his life if he doesn't try to get back. Exactly. And so he's taking a chance because he wants this and he wants to see if he can do it. There is real risk involved and it's a tremendous story and I you know, I think he's got a documentary out I think I mentioned before.

If it's not out it's coming out. So they're following him training for this and yeah trying to get back. There was one for a tennis player Maybe Murray Either way coming back a similar thing who made it back to tennis So yeah, he is he's ready to go and obviously he's a foremost worker Everyone says he's still a tank and he's puts in the hours. And even if you do this, you make this effort and you get back and like you're able to play eight minutes and two games or whatever and they go on and they win a cup,

you're part of it. You're the captain like like, oh like Stamco. And then you know though, then you know what you know, you could you try. Yes. Yeah. Well and that maybe is the best point, JB, is that you now have at least full closure. It's not gonna be like 15 or 20 years from now if I would have stuck with it, or if I just would have tried harder, or whatever.

It's like, this will be definitive one way or another. He'll know for sure whether or not This ever had a chance or not and that may help cousins goes low and submarines Final cousins in the final sensor in the final In the meantime nice Matthew nice, okay Florida. In the meantime, Nice, Matthew Nice. OK, Jason Buchla wrote a story on Sportsnet.ca kind of outlining maybe a couple of options

that the Leafs might take or look at in regards to signing him to a new contract. Yeah. So he kind of laid out, you know, that Nice is a rare player to have in your roster. I think it's funny, you know, that he mentions other people mentioned like other GM's had interest in eyes the deadline. It's like, yeah, yeah, 2263. He's going to score 30 goals. No kidding. Yeah.

So the point is, you know, for him is what do you do with nice in terms of his contract? He has laid out a couple potential ones, five-year extension and an eight-year extension the five year He's got it about seven point five million the eight year at eight to eight point five You know his suggestion is that you sign him first which kind of sets the framework for the rest of the roster decisions You know kind of figure it out from there it's it's a big one for the least that they get this guy under contract and You know you can make a case that it's

I really love Jason Buchanan the show but I do not agree with him with No Well, I just it's not anybody's contract, but it does come into play. Yeah, but What's the hurry on Matthew Nyes? He is restricted, he's locked in. The only thing you gotta worry about, I guess, or have people mention is that he could be offer cheated. That's real.

That's very real as a concern. Teams see the least. Let's just talk about this for a second. Sure. Okay. What is he gonna get offered that the Toronto Maple Leafs will Will walk away from it won't happen. It won't happen, but someone else would get to dictate a number You don't want to give them Now he's making ten. What is that number?

Who in their right mind would sign Matthew Nice to 10 million bucks? This is the thing that teams who want to properly use offer sheets need to do. They should offer him 15 on a one or two year deal. Matthew Nice 15 million. I'm telling you it's not because he's worth 15 because no one's going to pay him 15. So you find it a team who's up against the cap you do a one-year monster deal Which then you have them in your organization you have the chance to resign you they will give you a more normal contract after that You you you got it. You'll you gotta pay him 15 million every year What do you mean? No, you don't then what are you paying him? You could renegotiate after that?

All right, here's your next deal, because we hooked you up on that one. But I'll Arby you and keep my $15 million. Why do I have to go back? Well, because you're you go ahead and Arby you're not worth 15. We'll put you up against every player in the league. And then you then you won't you won't match the Arby walk away from it and he'll walk. But this is the thing that this is how you utilize offer sheets Is that you you throw a big number to get them?

One's gonna throw ten or fifteen million dollars at this guy. I like him. He's a good player But do you even know what he is ultimately? No, and that's but I'm saying in terms of offer sheets, you don't want to put yourself at the mercy of other teams The last offer sheet That I mercy of other teams. The last offer sheet that I guess we can remember is Cockney and me maybe Halloween Broberg just got poached. That's a different beast.

Why? Because it was like they didn't know what they had and it was like two million bucks. Well, it happened. And five, which is still reasonable. They gave them contracts the Oilers weren't willing to match. they were dumb oilers were dumb they should have

matched it and then it would have been over yes so that's just a bad mistake on the oils part the Leafs wouldn't make that but if you're going to match whatever anyone offers anyway just give him a contract that you like or give him one that he doesn't like he's not going anywhere give him Four million at three years give him or tell him to stay home. Can I tell you something? Every time the Leafs have given 22 year olds or 23 year olds ten million dollars It's come back to bite him in the ass. Yes, it has okay stop it stop it I listen I need that's true, but I'm all in. Listen, I'm all in on a short deal. Give me a short deal. Hey, Matthew, you're restricted. There's good money waiting

for you, but this is what we're offering you. Take it or stay home. Yeah, that's fine. If you decide he's the guy you're going to dig, dig in on dig in, but you don't have to hose them. No, there're not hosing him. Your contract's going up a zillion dollars, you're losing two guys making 22 million. Say here's five times seven, let's go. Here's four times two or four times three or four and a half times three.

Go out there and put together 75 points. You're with Austin Matthews and I will give you the world, my friend. Yeah, I don't know how many years till he would be USA. How many points? 75 points you're with Austin Matthews and I will give you the world my friend. I think yeah I don't know how many years till he would be how many points how many points? How many points is he gonna end up with? Forties, okay, tell me 40 and I'm like gonna punch you in the head because you want to give him 10 million dollars I don't want to give him $10 million. I'm saying that's what we get him on an offer

She wants to give him eight and a half. Well, if you give him eight times that it might look pretty decent That's what guys like four points so far this year in 60 Generously minus three. Yeah. Okay. He's gonna end up with 55 Okay, I mean it was Austin and Marner all this year shouldn't be 75 for eight and a half million dollars I think you can totally do a short term deal. Yes. And I personally think... Bridge, bridge, bridge, bridge, bridge. Yeah, okay. I enjoy the one that comes after that one, but... Bridge. It's okay. Caps going 115 million. Bridge. Bridge.

All right. Didn't know we were going to get into that. I love when you guys... All right. We're going to take a deep breath on Matthew Nye's when we go national Jason York up next sends Montreal Canadians. Who's going to get that last spot in the East? Plenty more when we return to real Kipper and born.