Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Attention to Defence

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' loss to the Chicago Blackhawks last night, takeaways from seeing Connor Bedard up close and how his media availability has radically changed since Taylor Hall's comments. They continue with a look at the Leafs' defensive pairs, a wrinkle in the goalie battle and how Matthew Knies might fit on the top line. With William Nylander's impressive start, they get into how his extension might look and how the Leafs can maximize their negotiations (40:07). The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right welcome into the tm studio in downtown toronto nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee derek brandeo jen rolnik we're live on sports at 590 sports at 360 and sports that plus from four to six eastern and wherever you get your podcast so download that bad boy and give us a rating and review and let us know what you finally think of sammy as a true television celebrity. And you can also text in, right, JB? Yeah, text 590-590. We would love to hear from you.

Yeah, we like the fan participation of the show. Love it. Comes up at the back end. Absolutely love it when people text in. Get involved. All right. I could have dangled the Leaf alumni box later on in the season and kept you guys like seagulls to popcorn and trailed you along.

But no, Conor Bedard's in town. Let's take you last night. And what do you guys do? You lay an egg. That was, could you have gone? What did I do? Yeah, you just brought them no luck. You brought them no luck you brought them

no energy yeah and here we are right now trying to figure this all out it's too early to figure out what's wrong with the leafs outside of the leafs win i was kind of hoping that bedard would hang like five on them or something we could chat about that but no points for bedard the leafs lose they score once we and now we got to pick through the for Bedard. The Leafs lose. They score once. And now we've got to pick through the... And Bedard was under 19 minutes last night, Kippy. So maybe they're listening to you. Which is already a good thing.

Yeah. So there you go. But no, it was pretty cool to be in the old alumni box there. I felt, you know, fantasy camp. I watched real close in Montreal. But I did see his first game against Sid. Yeah. I thought it was his best night last night and no points.

Yes. Yeah. And no points. Huh. What did you like more last night? I thought he had a better presence. I thought just his ability to move the puck I saw a lot more, maybe because I was live.

But I just thought with a few maybe highly skilled players that could maybe make plays or finish plays, he would have had more success. But I get it. Watching him live, I get it uh the zone entries are spectacular yeah he is shifty and like he just hangs on to it hangs on to it like the little guys who don't get hit do he was awesome i saw ben pope he's a beat writer for the blackhawks tweeted that the number one and two in individual scoring chances this NHL season are Austin Matthews and Conor Bedard with 28,

and then third place has 17. Like he is in the elite class despite only having three points in four games. Fourth player in NHL history with 20 shots on goal through his first four career games. I'd say he's doing okay. He's firing it a lot. Yeah. And he had that nice rush where he went around Klingberg

and kind of brought it across his body, and Wall made a good save on it. But yeah, I mean, I was a little bit underwhelmed. I was hoping for a goal or something. Before we fix the Leafs... And we will. Before we do that, just another note on Conor Bedard. They don't make him available the morning of the skate, and they didn't make him available after the day the morning of the skate and they didn't make them available after the game as well is that so no game day availability at all in toronto i

believe he spoke what would have been sunday the day before i think he spoke sunday he did but you know it's a different amount of people that are there on game day after the game they get the win i think it was because maybe he didn't get a point as somebody was claiming like i hate you i hate being media guy but like that's not it is toronto after all you should probably you should probably hold court for five minutes after the game the only thing i i i don't question it i i think i understand it because you you heard what i said last week. We talked about it yesterday, yeah. And even what I witnessed after that opening game. But it is really a 180 from the first four or five days when they threw him out there and he did all the interviews

and he's walking into buildings with security guards and then all of a sudden it's like... But he's on a couch with Colby. You come into the biggest market in Canada. And you shut them down day of the game. And after the game, it's 180. It is. There's got to be happy media.

We had the Taylor Hall quote yesterday where he was like, he's doing too much media. And we're like, yeah, he's doing too much media. And then he came here and did zero. And we're like, wait, let's credit Taylor Hall. Then it didn't mean that. Yeah, I don't don't mind it see i don't mind it at all at the end of the day i'm not sure i buy into the blue lamarillo keep these guys muzzled in their rookie year but you have to pick and choose your spots and i think i think chicago i'll give them full credit they looked in the mirror and said, what are we doing?

What are we doing to this kid? Yeah, it's been a lot. But now, help me understand, typically, like reporters used to go in the room and there was no like real availability, was there? Like you just talked to whoever at their stall, talked to the guys as they were around. Get them to stop before they take a shower.

Right. And so I guess now you just pick a handful of guys or you can say you can't talk to player x i guess i don't understand how that process works necessarily that he was excluded but anyway well they would make somebody available i think they'd probably bring somebody outside the room there'd be like a classic spot where they yeah or whatever but let me go ahead and give you the Conor Bedard quotes. Yeah, you know, happy with the win. Thought our guys played really well.

Just happy to leave with two points. Yeah, Toronto's a special market. It's cool to play here. There you go. That was Bedard. It was a real thrill to go up against such great players like Austin Matthews. Yeah, it was so well. Can you do me and I can go home early?

I wish. If I could do you, I'd be worth a lot more money. Oh, yeah. I don't know about that it's the principle it is to me and like it does i i really don't i'm not gonna lose sleep over it but it does rub me the wrong way a little bit yeah well you're a media guy you're elliot friedman you're in the entertainment business but so you're just completely fine with it that he doesn't talk oh no i support it okay i'm not just not fine about it i'm like yeah okay because i don't think first and foremost

i've been doing this for over well over 20 years i will never to my grave say that uh since I've been in television, I'm in the entertainment business. I'm just, I'm too hockey. You're not in the entertainment business. Nobody's, Sportsnet's in the entertainment business. What is he talking about? I'm not sure. I don't know. From a hockey perspective, everybody's in the winning business. Yes.

Not in the entertainment business. Conor Bedard is not in the entertainment business. Brad Treliving is not in the entertainment business connor bedard is not in the entertainment business brad tree living is not in the entertainment business they're into the winning business right they're doing the right thing by the player and that's the way i think okay he just stripped our show off a few quotes that we're gonna suck anyway so we should move on all good i just thought it was worth it's worth mentioning okay worth Well, we got less than an hour now to fix the Leafs. Okay. They've allowed four plus goals in each of their first three games of the season.

First time since when I broke into the league. Yeah. 89-90. Bit more scoring back then. Like, didn't see this coming. We question how good will that blue line be, but we didn't really envision that against weaker opponents to start the season at home.

Yeah. I'll go first. McCabe and Klingberg cannot be partners. That's just the place I need to start here. Like, watching them last night, I really like a lot of what both of them do as individualies together. They are too erratic. Like they both like to pinch up at random times.

You're not sure who's coming or going. It just cannot work. And last night it wasn't good. And last night we saw that a plenty McCabe chasing both guys below the goal lines at time. It just, they did switch them for the third period. They went McCabe chasing both guys below the goal lines at time. It just, they did switch him for the third period. They went McCabe with Lilligren and Klingberg with Giordano, which I like way more.

There's a certain saying about shuffling certain things on a certain ship. Yeah. You know? And I don't know, you could probably finish the saying for me, but it's just like, I don't know. Either way, the boat's at the bottom of the ocean i just it's i'm having a hard time figuring out which ones are the best pairings here yeah if you're gonna stick with riley and brody together you're just it's gonna be a mix-up of those four guys if none of it's gonna be really pretty i

don't think there's pain coming all right uh i i'm gonna save save my comment for after when we hear from Sheldon Keefe on what his takeaway from last night was. What was your takeaway from the night? I thought we were really sloppy with the puck in the first period and then got beat in transition in the second period. That's really it. Game is so simple sometimes. Okay, that's...

That was good by Sheldon. Good job identifying issues last night. Let's go to his overview of the game because that's the one I want to hear. The turnover stuff early on, just careless with the puck. It's all our best players. Really, really careless to start the game. So that didn't give us a chance to take a hold of the game.

You want to be able to deal on home ice. So we weren't able to take charge of the game, and then you let your opponent hang around. We've seen this movie before. You let them hang around, and then you're not getting power plays. Even when we started to get some momentum, started to get some life there once they scored their first goal, and a couple penalties against us kind of took away from our momentum.

Like I said, two goals in transition coming out of the offensive zone. I don't even know if we really had to defend. I don't know how much time we spent in our end tonight. Not very much at all. So this is a much different story than what we've been through in the previous games. And then not enough goals

obviously to make up for the mistakes, which is what's been happening. Okay. Oh boy. Just to go back prior to hearing from Sheldon Keefe, totally agree with you. It needs attention beyond belief on figuring out the defensive pairs. Okay.

But when Sheldon refers to seeing this movie before. This finding out the right pairs for your D has been a very long, two and a half, three year movie. That movie, is it the flower moon? It's the Irishman, is it? There's not enough popcorn on the planet to get through this movie.

Right. It's getting redundant. Why can't they figure this out? And how are we already in game three and they're scrambling now to get new pairs? The answer is that they don't have good enough players. In that position, I'm just saying to be a Stanley Cup team, I'm not saying they don't

have a good enough team to win games to make the playoffs to be competitive to whatever if you want to win the stanley cup this year then you're going to look at those d pairs and mccabe lilligren is a second pair is probably not good enough and clingbird giordano is probably not a shutdowny enough there's just not enough identity on the different pairs you You're going to need to be a couple of bodies different. Eventually you can still win with these pairs. I like them best like this, but Kip, that's to your point about shuffling them.

They're going to keep mixing and matching and hoping there's too much talk about movies in the city. Like Vladdy talking about the preview in the movie that we've seen this movie before. It's like enough movie talk. By the way, the movie that we have seen before is Sheldon Keefe calling out the best players in the first two weeks of the season yes we'll see this year if he comes out and apologizes for it or not but i think i'm gonna guess not that was a little

softer of a blow than the soft and purpose purposeless two years ago yeah soft and purposeless this is a theme they're a little too cute you can look at that lineup and just sense what you're saying for sure. And the answer is ultimately it's easy to get to the right answer. I'm way ahead of it. But you're way ahead. Way ahead. We're game three. Because no one's coming in to save this blue line.

Bobby Orr's not walking through that door. It doesn't appear like they're deep enough or strong enough to contend for a Stanley Cup. But they shouldn't be this bad. They shouldn't be. Defensively. Defensively. Yeah. As a group.

So I'll throw this back at you guys. Is Sheldon Keefe now maximizing this group as is? Like they're, please tell me there's, there's more to squeeze out of them to be better here. Way better. It's just not about finding the right mix. It's about individually getting McCabe to be better. I think that is a major chore for them to get better.

Yeah. So McCabe is going to make $2 million. He's worth, I don't know, three, whatever, maybe four, which was his actual contract value. He's cheap. It's a salary cap team. Okay. With all due respect, the start that he's had this season,

he's not worth two. Really? The way he hits and skates and moves the puck, playing 20 minutes, killing penalties, that's not worth $2 million? I haven't seen it. I haven't seen him. I don't think he's had an effect at all to start this season.

And I don't know why, because the number one thing for him is that he's known as being this competitive guy who can play tough. Have you seen anything at all out of him other than being a little indecisive? Couple of hits. Couple of hits. Yeah, a little indecisive couple of hits couple of hits yeah a few times he rattles the boards and people come down his side but that's to me what i've seen out of him is a five six and five six in this league today

are you know i don't know million million and a half yeah so how about this then he has the potential to be a very good player to me way better than what we've seen yes and that i agree with so on the back end then is it dean chanouth is it you know manny maholtra who is it that's going to work with this guy and say mike van ryan there's a great you know he he was the type of player that mccabe could be i was saying to sammy before if I'm talking to McCabe, I'm like, love that we've explored all angles of your potential. Watch TJ Brody.

We want you to play D and shut people down. And when someone comes down your side, unlike Brody, please put your shoulder into his sternum and make him regret it. But the rest of the time, don't pinch. Stay on the blue line. Play defense. Because right now it seems like he doesn't know what he is and what his purpose is. him regret it but the rest of the time don't pinch stay on the blue line play defense because right now it seems like he doesn't know what he is and what his purpose is he should be a defensive defenseman for them who's a little bit physical it's too erratic right now we looked at the goal

where johnson splits him it's a power play or uh goes on a power play nye should come back a little bit more but he just gets sucked out of the middle so far like sometimes he's just out of position too early well we saw on the on uh and whistles first goal yes where he's he i guess he's off the post he's not in a better position to get to the shooter right he's in the right area of the ice, but he's not. You see the frustration from him right away. And he knew it. He knew it.

And he's their shutdown guy. If you ask me who's supposed to be a defensive guy, it's Brody and him. Did they not trade for him? Jordan, I guess. He was the muzzin next man up. Yeah. In theory, right?

Muzzin light just watching klingberg and uh klingberg and mccabe together it's just i don't know how that can be a thing yeah it just it really feels like they're not and i think last night we sort of saw the first real glimpses of scary klingberg i know i called him kill the car in the first game and yeah not you know i think there's going to be a lot of those games and you have to take the good with the bad you see him firsthand him on the power play snaps it around nicely but there's clearly the other side of his game and those two together it's just it's not the right mix no it's not you can't keep doing it i don't think and this is not to hang it completely on the case because if once again if you go back and you watch that first goal go watch david

camp and go play um athena ceo behind the net yeah one of the worst drive-bys i've seen him make in two years and that play starts with neilander uh you and i watched the clip you know he's above the guy as they break out of the zone he kind of lets joan jones get by him doesn't take body doesn't take puck they get going the other way so it is a couple of drive buys and keith mentioned that sort of neutral zone transition play not good all over by the way i feel like the mccabe conversation is happening because it's like a school kid you're hardest on the ones that have the most potential and you're like you have so much more there's so much more there not necessarily the case we're not watching giordano going there's so much more. There's so much more there. Not necessarily the case. We're not watching Giordano going, there's so much more at this point. And everything I've gathered out of training camp,

into the first three games, I'm not even pinning this on six guys. And you mentioned Willie and Sheldon wasn't happy with Willie, was he? No, no. Actually, we have a short clip, I think. Oh, it's a long clip. Because it leads into my next point. Okay. Yeah, well, he was good with puck.

Made a mistake in the transition on the one goal against. And he's playing D. He's got to play D and let our guys recover. You know, but offensively, especially in the second, third period, our best guys got going in the second, third period. You know, none of us were good in the second and third period. Our best guys got going in the second and third period. You know, none of us were good in the first. But, like I said, second period was actually a fairly dominant period by us. When you're beat in transition, you give them free looks and they score.

So that's kind of, that's sort of the tale of the game. And this is where I think Sheldon's leaning towards, but he didn't really say it, and that is that the forwards have got to do a better job to protect this vulnerable defense right now. And it's not happening.

No. And that fourth line of theirs that he seems so married to, three games in, we'll see how much longer that lasts. It's getting eaten alive at this point. I mean, I really like Gregor and I have some Gregor takes. I actually think he should play up the lineup considerably,

but yeah, him, Kempf and Revo, I think are at about 25% expected goals as a line, which not great, you know, for a line you want to be defensively responsible and getting in on pucks and all that and he did the thing again last night with both at the end of both the first and

second period where he put them out to end the period yeah he's showing a amount of trust that doesn't seem warranted so far okay i'm gonna say something now that sammy's not gonna like oh boy love that okay uh the forwards are to have to give up some points to go back and help the D. He's talking about that with Willie, isn't he? 100%. And I'm talking Marner. I'm talking Austin Matthews, whatever the case is.

But you're going to have to give up some points. A little less hooky monster-ish. Right? Yeah. And it may be too boring hockey. I think they've done that in years past. I think we've seen snippets of it. Yeah.

And there was actually a time, I think, last year maybe. Where was that window where they were one of the best defensive teams in the league? Was that two years ago? No, last year. Was it last year? Last year they finished sixth or seventh in teams in the league. Was that two years ago? No, last year. Was it last year? Last year they finished 6th or 7th in goals against the league. They had a window where they had a stretch. When Riley was hurt.

When Riley was hurt. Thank you. Derek Brandeo. Derek Brandeo. When Riley was hurt and they just buckled down. Yeah. And can Sheldon get them to do that again? And then, by the way they went into arizona and

got blown out that's right riley's first game yeah and everyone went we definitely had the conversation like not blaming riley but are we blaming riley but i think we had are you sure they're better with riley that's where sheldon's got to get them back can you sell i feel like the the guys who've been here would be familiar with that conversation if you were lead into it, but you'd have to take that to the new guys as well. Like watching that game last night, you know,

cool to be there. The Leafs are such a talented team. Like even their fourth line, I mentioned this already. I love Gregor. I think he's a really energetic, plays with heart, a lot of skill,

like him a lot. Like I think they have talent all through their lineup. Finding this systems and destruction, what you're talking about a different commitment is probably yeah it's an adjustment they're gonna have to make because otherwise yeah if you just run wild look like they thought it was easy team they could do whatever they want they they they look like a team that knows how talent they are talented they are offensively, and they go, we'll exchange chances. Well, it's the Montreal. Sometimes it's 200 feet, 200 feet. I saw Lilligren throwing up the 150-foot passes up there

only to have Corey Perry come back with a quality chance off the neutral zone turnover. And then, what, 30 seconds, 40 seconds later, he's on a breakaway where the only one you see back is Mitch Marner. That's it. It was Morgan caught flat-footed. And I think Giordano trying best to get the 40 year old legs going to get back as well and

that stuff has to get cleaned up. We do have a quote from Sheldon on their defensive structure. Why don't we go to that one now? I mean I think we just continue to focus on the things that we've been focusing on the next game we play is not going to be like this one and we have the puck probably 75% of the game tonight.

That's not going to happen when we go out on the road. So the game's going to be different. So if we focus too much on some of the things that happened here tonight, we won't be ready for the next opponent. So we'll just keep doing the things that we've been doing. It's going to be a tough road trip for us, quality opponents. Going down to Florida, we're all familiar with what we're up against there. So we'll just focus on that.

Is that a guarantee? Well, it did sound like a very confident, the next game will not look like this one. But then he goes on to say that we won't have it all the time, which is fair. So, yeah, they're heading into play. What do you got, Florida, then Tampa Bay, their next couple games. They're going Florida, Tampa Bay, Caps, Stars, Preds, Kings.

All the way. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Return home on Halloween to play the Kings again. That's fun. Boy bonding trip there. The other feel that I got leaving last night is they're going to have to find a way to be responsible defensively.

But the good teams, the contending teams, when there are nights when Matthews and Marner and Willie don't bring it offensively, somebody's going to have to pick up the slack right now that's the biggest concern they're just who do you feel like is gonna score minton domi they're they're yeah they're camp like none of those guys are nice is the one you would say yeah he might get you one gregor might get you 10 to 15 we do not miss flexing around here no No Kerfoot. If someone isn't a threat out there, it just makes it a lot easier to focus on the guy that had two back-to-back hat tricks. So Chicago, you know Chicago,

if they're going to spend five minutes in a team meeting, four of them are going to be on Austin Matthews. 34-16. Right? 34-16. Yeah. and if they have any success at all and i know they had some decent looks but i thought mitch marner had a you know brutal game by his standards last night right but take a look at chicago D last night. Yeah. They're big. And they got in the way an awful lot.

The one thing the Leafs didn't get was unobstructed looks. There's no breakaways. There was no odd man rushes. I said that to you. I was like, how many shots have they blocked in this game? It felt like they were really in the lane. Plugged it up. Yeah.

Watched the center of the net. But, I mean, they were young, right? Vlasic and Kinski. Vlasic is uh six six six six that's his uh san jose's vlasic's nephew i think is it really i actually wondered that no is it he just didn't believe it is the san jose vlasic maybe it's his dad he's been around no i yeah double check that for me but i think it's his nephew let's just say this he No, I double-checked that for me, but I think it's his nephew. Let's just say it is. He's the heir to the pickle fortune.

What is he, 20, 21 years old? Maybe. But all I'm saying is at 6'6", and Seth Jones at 6'5", and who else did we see? Kuczynski, this guy's like 6'2". Yeah. Like, lanes get blocked. Yeah. Right?

Especially in the playoffs. He and Lanky helps. If you got a guy like Austin Matthews and you're able to kind of cheat and take it away because, in my opinion, what happens is, especially with his start, it becomes a lot more predictable. You're trying to get him the puck.

Yeah. And it's too much. Yeah. And then if guys aren't spreading it around, if a lot of guys are guilty of overpassing to him, and he's not looking to give it back, he's not looking for giving goals, this guy wants to shoot.

It makes it a lot harder. Yeah, I think eventually, you know, there's so much attention there, you just... It's his cousin. You collapse. Cousin. Cousin. Is it really?

According to Wikipedia. So... When has that ever been wrong? Take your... But it's his cousin, so... I'm in the family. You're in the family, baby. I mean, I figured it might...

I thought. I was like, well, anyways. We can move on. So there is some conversation then. They give up odd man rushes, breakaways. Joseph Wall stops 27 of 30 shots. Looks pretty good. Catches a lot of pucks, I thought, that stuck to him.

What did you make of his performance? I liked him a lot. Yeah? I did. Okay. Yes. I thought... Sammy's trying to curb the enthusiasm on Wall.

I'm not overly enthusiastic on anything other than this guy seems to be ready to possibly have 20 starts, 25 starts. How many quality? It's not very many starts. I wouldn't pin. It all depends on Samsonov. Maybe it's 30.

Yeah. But I don't pin anything on him last night i thought he absorbed pucks i thought he saw them real well connor bedard had a couple of quality chances in the slot with his signature shot and uh he was there for them yeah i thought it was a good start to the season for him for sure you know outside of the loss. Outside of three going straight through him. I guess one was on a breakaway, but, you know. Yeah. Well, let's listen to what Sheldon Keefe has to say,

and then I'll give you my thoughts. I thought Joel was good. You know, the goals he let in, the guys were in alone on him. We didn't get in alone on their goalie, I don't think, at all, the whole night. And, you know, they got three goals on us in alone on the goaltender.

So, that's the difference. So everyone you talk to who may, you know, hockey, there's a lot of hive mind. Like people started to like Fraser Minton. So other people said they started to like him. And all of a sudden everyone loved Fraser Minton around here. Everyone I talk to says Joseph Wall is technically very, very good and is going to be the guy here eventually like they really like the way he plays and you know whether that's you know like goalie coaches

who watch him say eventually wall's going to be the guy i don't know if we're ready to hand it to him now but i will say he's always handing it to him no i know but i mean well some people are well the conversation's already started i don't know know. Leafs fans. Leafs fans. Oh, they're dumb. I think Sam was saying our own morning show. Come on. Gunner was talking about it. No, Gunner. Yeah, he was. Oh.

Okay. Nice kid. Come on now. Come on now. I abstain. I abstain. When did Gunner become an expert on goal timing? I'm just saying people are saying it.

Love you, Gunner. About Vole. They are excited about the guy. He's a different cat you know joshua cloak who we've had on the show in the past had an article on him today well i think that he's a unique personality no no they're all weird about him no they're not no they're all the same now that's weird no it's not it's not it's not listen joel went by himself backpacking in the alps this year no friends no family he just went walking around they asked if he thought about hockey not a lick just thinking about life did he want to get

stronger totally that's totally normal behavior goalies are just totally normal yeah no he didn't want to fill out his frame this year didn't size or strength young kid no didn't want to worry about that just was worried worried about his ankles and shoulders he said they asked if he's ready he said i don't think because he's like that that that shapes him into maybe potentially being a better goalie i think that he has a mindset that is uncommon and so if that makes him different than your average all different in so many ways maybe mike richter and maybe glenn healy were the two of the most normal guys I've been with on a team. The rest of them, ooh, cuckoo.

I mean, have you ever played goalie? Who on earth would want to do that? It's the worst thing ever. If you go back to Felix Podvan, there's a lot of guys that the Leaf media built up to be the next guy from Justin Hoagie to Reimer, Reimer, Croft, Ray Croft. This is irrelevant to this conversation. No, what I'm saying is Wall can be very good or he can fall by the wayside with the rest of them.

I'm not building him up to be anything. And it's not because he had a backpack. Go to the else. He had metaphysical realizations about himself or something. He's the next Aaron Rodgers. Oh, yeah. He's going to be having darkness retreats. Aaron Rodgers and Joe Wall will have the same impact on their respective sports.

I'll tell you what can't happen. And you cannot start conversations that this guy is already going to be in two weeks, the Leafs' number one goalie. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm not starting that conversation. I know. I know it's – I think that he's unique is interesting, and I think that if he does come at the game a different way, there's the potential to get really varied results. Everyone's kind of doing the same thing. If he's doing weird things, maybe he'll tank, maybe he'll get awesome. But I think it's interesting to keep an eye on which way that he goes.

I don't know. I'm no goalie expert like my boy Gunner, but I will say that just watching Samsonov versus Wall in terms of style would say that Wall's style is much more aesthetically pleasing than Samsonov's. Samsonov makes me nervous. Samsonov's much more of a high risk kind of flashier goaltender to me athletic and wall just is very steady like you know he's not out of

position a lot like he just very like static samsonov's has a much higher chance of uh over playing yes he when he gets excited he pushes yeah outside crease, and he's flopping around. Doesn't mean he's necessarily better, but I just think to my eye. Which we've seen a lot at the start of this season. But you go right back to Samsonov. There's not even a question. I thought for sure you were going to start Wall next game. Oh, my God.

No way. If you think Wall should start the next one, you're nuts. I'm with you guys. It should be Samsonov. It starts. It starts the vult four should start the next one, you're nuts. I'm with you guys. Because it starts. It starts the vultures on the goalie. Are we the vultures? We're all vultures. Of course.

Right? Sam was on the barbecue chicken last night. I only had one serving. I was a good boy. I only had one serving. And I went back for some fingies after. I was a good boy. I only had one serving. And I went back for some fingies after. I was a good boy. One conversation I wanted to get to you guys before the break is Tyler Bertuzzi.

A couple of penalties last night, if I'm not mistaken. The one that bothered me was the reach in 200 feet from your net. Sloppy with his stick. He's swinging that stick around a lot. Blood controlling. Is there still a sense that this line is going to work for the Leafs? It's the perfect combination. Because I got to be honest with you, I haven't seen a whole lot of playmaking between the three of them.

I still haven't. If there's a thought that Bertuzzi's just going to get the puck over to them as much as possible and then just head to the net, is that going to be enough? Because, you know, I'll say it. As many warts as that we saw in Bunting's game last year, I saw a much more creative Bunting than I have seen of Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi's big bunting. He still

flops a little bit and tries to draw him and takes his penalties. But I'm just talking about offensive entries, giving goes. I liked... But I didn't... I liked bunting's routes. Does that make sense to you guys? It does.

100% it does. Interesting. Interesting way to put it. I liked hisunting's routes. Does that make sense to you guys? It does, 100%. It does. That's an interesting way to put it. Yeah. I liked his routes to working with Marner and Matthews. I liked his routes to get to the net, being in the right place at the right time. I just haven't seen it yet out of Bertuzzi. I would say that when you're looking for a guy running routes

on that left side of that line, you want it to be very much like Zach Hyman. You want Zach Hyman. Get down the field. Get to the front of the net. Get down the field. Get back. Bertuzzi is a more trick play.

But he's not as strong and as physical as Hyman. And Bunting was the lightest out of all of them. And so I wonder eventually if nize is not the best fit for their left wing yeah he's 6 3 2 20 he goes to the net i'm leaning towards you more today than i was yesterday but i it's still i and i said this to you guys, I like the fact that he hasn't been a focal point up until now. Yeah, maybe it's a lot. Not like he was when he got called up from college and then thrown to the Wolves in the playoffs last year.

I liked a steady progression, and I think he's going to be fantastic. I'm watching him again last night. He's going to be fantastic. I'm watching him again last night. Like, he's going to get there. But do you want to do it so early right now and throw him up there with Matthews and Marner? It's a good point and maybe why they're hesitant. I said to Sam, Sam told me it was his birthday today, not yesterday.

I was like, he must be 24 out of college. No, he just turned 22. Yeah. So, yeah, you may want to give him some run of nhl hockey where he's not playing 19 minutes on the top line against the best matchups and all that you know if you're shuffling the deck chairs i mentioned this a little bit earlier what did you make of gregor throws a hit he actually fights yeah listen that's that's not it's not uh it's it's been good could he play with willie and tavaris on a couple of shifts do i want to count on it is he going to be a mainstay no no they're third and fourth liners good player i like him big big rager guy right didn't think i would be but like the pace san jose's engaged

and they didn't want him he just turned 25 too they're trying to be bad they want to get rid of their great players like jason is that what's going on yeah maybe that's it but listen the key i think too is on, on some occasions that you, you squeeze what you can out of those guys, but you don't overextend them. And a guy like Gregory, I mean, well, Ryan Reeves too.

Yeah. Like he's, he's got a threat out there, big hits, fights, and then you kind of back off them a little bit. It's like Sheldon. when i see them late in the in the period on the ice i get nervous i didn't think it was reeves best game last night there's

the one in the d zone he kind of leaves when he could retrieve it and help them break out like yeah i i'm with you that that's not going to be a defensive shutdown those guys and then you can take it for what it's worth the problem is kip we just said that those guys can't score there's no scoring in the bottom six so now we're not comfortable with them defending can't score can't defend what are we doing yeah my yeah you want to you you want to encourage some creativity but not not at the expense of defense. They've got to earn their minutes by taking care of that end of the ice first. For sure. And, you know, we'll see where it goes moving forward,

but that would go a long way to helping out the D get sorted out. Yeah. I thought Minton was better. I thought last night was a good night for him. Like, you know, he's not creating, but he's not hurting the many. I thought last night was a good night for him. He's not creating, but he's not hurting the many. Yeah, but they maybe need someone to create something. Right. You need someone to do something.

You need a guy on that third line that's going to do something. He's getting his games here and looks more comfortable, but probably not the solution in the end. Alright. Want to talk about Corey Perry when we come back? We got to go to break? Yeah, let's hit the break. That was really fast.

I know. Really fast. All right. We're going to take a break and talk about a leaf killer named Corey Perry. Doing it again to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Real Kipper and Bourne after the break. Back in the studio hour one mckiprios justin bourne sammy mckee just going to break uh talking a little willie nylander and again taking the game in live with you guys uh two guys had Guys had the wow factor last night. Conor Bernard, of course. And still Willie.

All, no. Sammy with his sweatshirt. I mean, I looked good. I thought I looked fine. I wasn't at a place. You're a celebrity now. People are going, what's Sammy wearing last night? You didn't hear that?

No. What's he wearing? I was wearing a Nike shirt. It's a gray Nike sweatshirt. He wasn't wearing his? No. What's he wearing? I was wearing a Nike shirt. It's a gray Nike sweatshirt. Listen, he wasn't wearing his Costco sweats that I know he has. So it was an upgrade. He did his best. I like the way I looked last night, boys.

Yeah. I think we came on the show yesterday and said that Willie and Tavares have never had any chemistry. And then we went to the game and the only goal that they scored was by far their best chemistry moment they've ever had. Like, that was a really nice goal, that drop pass. Willie almost died in the process.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I would just. In your day. In my day. Someone cutting across like that. And then he gives kind of the behind the look, which means that you're even that much more vulnerable.

Yeah. But nobody caught him, and it's all good. And Willie warts it all defensively. And I don't know, was he minus two last night? I don't know. But do Leaf fans even care when he makes dashes the way he has this season? I made the comment on the show that peak Malkin was up there with peak Crosby and Ovechkin peak Nylander.

And he's as good as he's good as Matthews. No, no, no, maybe not, but God, he's, he's a top 10 guy in the league.

Yeah. Nylander is a top 10 guy in the league. You don't get it all the time, which is the problem. But when he is good, you never see snow on his jersey and i know some people think that's an insult but i mean it because his edges are so good and he's so strong he is on his feet the whole game you cannot knock that guy off the

there's only a handful of guys with edges like that for me and it's of course it starts with 97 in edmonton yeah i think about think about Pat Kane and his heyday. It's a good one. Jack Hughes, for me, is one of those guys with great edges now. And Willie's, like, right at the top right now. Yeah. Our favorite saying, Sammy, the last, what, year and a half, two years, is how you described Willie and what he could do with a glass of water.

He has to put it on his helmet and it wouldn't spill. And it wouldn't spill. Yeah. He is so, and you know, I really like that we've gone three minutes in this conversation and we haven't mentioned him being a pending UFA, boys. Good job. That'll come up.

One sec. Do you remember the Nike commercial where Sergey Fedorov had to like skate through everyone and they tried to take him down? I remember. There was nothing cooler when I was a kid. Right. It was the number one coolest guy ever was Sergey Fedorov. If everyone in the league had to be in that Fedorov spot, McDavid's number one who you

couldn't touch, who you couldn't take down. Willie's in. He's got to be the next guy to him. If you want a guy to rag the puck the length of the ice, he's going to do it. Those Nike commercials back in the day when they had the goalie who was terrified it was their marketing was unbelievable oh he was on a lawn mower or something yeah but he was in the back seat of a cab yeah he was always giving it the weak glove and really had a ton of that yeah those were i mean that was peak hockey advertising uh conor bedard already you could see the edge works. Spectacular.

And already a top 10 guy when it comes to the edges. Barzell, although he's a poor man's Mitch Marner for me. That was a really good poll, Barzell. And actually, yes, quite poor man's Mitch Marner. But yes. But it appears like people are starting to get the light of day that this guy will not end up a contract around like nine or nine and a half. Well, what if he takes eight years with Toronto? Would he take a lower number than, you know, if you go for seven,

you're going to want a higher number. And he really wants to be here. And, you know, he's been abundantly clear on that and the leafs don't appear right now yeah he said it pretty much every time yeah no no for sure even with uh elliot friedman when he talked about how you know what's the rush and then literally later that day austin matthews signed his four-year contract so you you take it for face value that he's Willie Styles. It's a pretty good market here for him, but there's a number out there that he and his agent want to hit,

and the Leafs are going to have to come up. But the good news is you really have all season to get there. Do you? Well, because a new contract wouldn't kick in until next year. Yeah, but you've got to do this by the deadline because if he's not signing, you've got to trade him. No, you don't. You're just going to play.

You're just going to let him walk. Bye, Hyman. Bye, Brown. Bye, Willie. You can't. See you, Freddie. How are you going to sell it to me? So these are a first-place team heading to the playoffs.

They're going to trade their best playoff performer at the deadline. There's no threat of going past the deadline with him. The threat is that you don't want to pay him anything near what other teams are willing to pay. And with this cap still the way it is, there's a very small margin. They just want to make sure that they're not overpaying. Right, because next year the cap goes up, but Matthews makes an extra two.

And if Willie makes an extra four, we're out of money again. Yes. We're broke again. Then you get creative, and Tavares will be one year remaining on his deal, and you probably end up pushing that out as early as next, this summer. And then you fit Willie in. How do you do that?

That's the strategy. After they win the cup, you're going to trade your captain? How dare you? But that's just life willie's willie and so we come in here and sit down tomorrow we're talking about willie's eight by ten and a half what are you saying i'm saying it's probably in the ballpark of uh where that new money's going and he wants new money he doesn't want market today nine nine two nine five is yesterday's market everybody's playing three years market money but to your point they got the

extra year that they can cash in and they can just front load it like crazy and that's a very attractive thing it works for matthews and marner and it'll work for Willie, that we can pay you $15 million in your first three years and put all that money in your pocket as soon as possible. How about can you leave Nylander tradable in some way? Front load the deal and have a modified no trade where you at least get teams or something. Because I worry about the back end, age know, age 36, Nylander. It's a valid point.

As much as you love Willie and how dynamic he is and you love that he wants to be here, there's ample sample sizes, thanks to Kyle Dubas, that four core guys up front don't work. So even if you signed Willie and you got rid of Tavares as early as next season and alleviated a large portion of that cap, there's still no signs that you've done anything to improve your back end. But you have money then to spend

if you were to move out one of them. How much though? Because you're not ditching $11 million from Tavares. You're buying it out or you're taking 50% off of it so somebody else can have it. You don't think you could trade one year? Yeah.

If he's a point per game guy this year, you don't think you could trade Tavares? Coy. If he's a point-per-game guy this year, you don't think you could trade DeVars? Coyote's got to get to the cap. I think he might tie a second to his hip. Listen, I'm not saying no completely. I'm convinced they can't, but you've got to be on the side

of conscious. Caution? Cautious. Cautious. That it's not going to happen and that you're going to have to pay a little bit to get rid of Tavares' contract. So how much is going to be left?

I don't know. You know what you have to do is you have to sign Willie Nylander and figure it out you know because he's too good to let go he's too important to this team's chance of winning the cup this year you don't want to have this conversation in april yeah you know yesterday's price i think they have great drop really good one that there doesn't seem to be any rush right now um but consensus is he'll be elite you think yeah i'm leaning towards them figuring out uh a new deal and it is another 40 goals should get him in the ballpark at 10 and a half what's 50 gonna do uh texas at 590 590 your

thoughts and uh yeah i have else you have to be cautious with when you're talking about Corey Perry on the radio? People are upset. Well, we're going to swear. Hey, can you stop booing him at Leafs games? It's everything he wants. You're giving him what he wants. He shot it in the net last night, and I looked at him and said,

this effing guy. Okay, we're going to pick up a little Corey Perry after the break. Love it. All right, we're going into our national hour. Still plenty to get into, including the Vancouver Canucks. They made a bit of a trade today. They're looking for a little depth. That and more on Real Kipper when we return.