Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Auston Matthews’ Return + McCabe On IR

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Sam McKee are joined by Sportsnet’s Gord Stellick for Leafs Hour to discuss the stellar return of Auston Matthews over the weekend following a six-game absence, and the likelihood of the centre suiting up for USA at the 4 Nations Face-Off. Then, the team offers thoughts on Matthew Knies’ dominant performance on Saturday to earn his first career hat-trick against the Bruins, a slumping second line led by William Nylander, and Dennis Hildeby’s steadiness against the Flyers possibly earning him another start this week. Later, the guys break down the fisticuffs between Garnet Hathaway and Jake McCabe on Sunday, leading to the latter’s placement on injured reserve by the team, and the streaky nature of scoring from the Leafs’ blueline.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going here. Good weekend for everybody. I hope Nick Kiprios in for Justin Bourne today, our very own Gord Stelick, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo and Jen Rolnick. Next two hours, including this one, Leaf Edition hour live on Sportsnet 590, the fans, Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet Plus. All right, JB, attending to a family commitment. Gordo, thanks for coming in, pal. How are you? I'm good. Now, do you write the names down?

Uh, no way. Well, it's all part of an in-depth scheduling by our very own Sammy McKee. Sometimes I can't make the names out because the crayons smudges. Oh, they're all there. Okay, no, I'm serious. Joe Bowen, I did color with him for four years. Jim Ralph's done it for a thousand years. Joe, Joe writes your name down. No, he does. Like he write in ink, like so whatever. So I wasn't knocking you. I said, it sounds weird. Sometimes those are the things that when, you know, you're new at doing in and outs, I'm kind of like, whatever, we weren't broadcasters first. So anyway, good for it.

But I see Sammy types it out nice for you. Yeah, but I mean, I get it wrong half the time. So that's why I said, here we go. It was a contentious issue. The lineup's not always perfect, much to the chagrin of my good friend, Mr. Kiprios, over there, but away we go. Sammy, you're trying your best.

That's all we ever ask out of anybody here on The Real Kipper and Warren Show. I tried my best to stay warm today, but I failed. It is freezing in Toronto today. Freezing! Yeah, it's a good one. On the weekend, I flew down on Friday to catch the Rangers and the Washington Capitals on a nice rare noon game but decided to stay Sunday to hang out a little bit. Yeah, take the wife to Georgetown. Okay, really nice got a nice 145 flight back to Billy Bishop Airport that got delayed.

Oh, okay. Not so perfect. Like how much? Like, wheels were down still at Dulles Airport at 4.30. I've got a live 6.30 pregame show with Justin Bourne, David Amber and Elliot Friedman and I'm like sweating bullets like come on I got a 130 flight, 145 flight that should land in Toronto at 2 45, 3 o'clock, plenty of time right? No. I mean that is cutting it a little close.

Is that the most you've been? In 25 years of broadcasting that's the closest I've ever cut it. I really thought I was done, not coming in. Because you carry that show too, so they need you. I was carrying something, but it was not the show. It was in my pants. So now I land and it's like six o'clock and they're telling me like slow down, don't come in now, we want you to stay in your Uber and we'll zoom you in on our free game show. I'm like, are you nuts?

Are you nuts? They all wanted me to do our first block out of an Uber. Well, and seeing the humor of it, letting the audience in, right? Like not doing, you know, otherwise. Anyways, it was like, I got in, I got dressed, I shaved in nine minutes. And the audience was none the wiser. Got a pretty good game, I would, I think, would have good numbers last night. I don't know, but I mean. I think it was one of those games where, I think on a rare Sunday,

that people are still in their weekend mode and sat back and relaxed and watched again the Leafs find a way to accumulate points. And sometimes it's not, it wasn't as pretty as Saturday night, let's put it that way. But I think Leaf fans left that game happy. So hold on, before we move off this late thing, what time did you actually enter the building? Maybe a Saturday night, let's put it that way, but I think Leaf fans left that game happy.

So hold on, before we move off this late thing, what time did you actually enter the building? 6.09. Oh, and on air for 6.30? Yeah, about 6.10. Wow, that's pretty good. I mean to be on, to be still wheels down in another country. You should have seen me go through like Billy Bishop, like in a full sprint. A full sprint, like get out of the way.

Now do you have nexus? I do. Okay, okay. That helped. Yeah, plus getting out of the way and knocking people probably helped as well. And I thought I was gonna help myself by telling my driver, listen, like three words,

big, fat, tip. Yeah, and? And it didn't go over so well. This guy couldn't find the slowest people to drive behind. And I'm like, buddy, did I, you know, was I not clear? Like it's come on. You know what? The Lord is getting you because you called me desperate years ago

to go to Sportsnet at 401 and McCown what used to be up there. There's your car and I went out of my way, picked you up, taken the Don Valley Parkway and all you did was bleep and gimme crap about how slow I drove. This is true. That's all you did. Yes.

And you know, I'm a law abiding citizen. You know, I don't want my insurance rates to go up. And you had the best line about the dog. Yeah, I said, like, I could, like, there's a dog pissing on our wheel right now, Gord. If you just can step on it a little bit here. Well, you should offer the Uber driver, and like, let me drive.

I'll get us there in time. Then you'll get the big fat chip. Anyways. All right, the Toronto Maple Leafs completed their sweep with a back-to-back on the weekend. Six-four win over the Bruins and then 3-2 in overtime I'll let you take the floor first there Gordo in terms of what you saw last night. We'll get into specifics, but We are at a halfway point officially for the Toronto Maple Leafs

So okay halfway point was kind of a point of assessment So, you know we do those Toronto Star columns and I'm kind of pitching at, halfway point was kind of a point of assessment. So, you know, we do those Toronto Star Columns, and I'm kind of pitching at the halfway point. They've won as far as the free agent signings. They've got the best value, even with Stoldar still injured. Anyway, that's one. Yeah, you want to get in first place so you get a better playoff matchup conceivably.

They're in first place. When you get a better playoff matchup, you want home ice advantage. That's what it's for. They've never really had home ice advantage or taken advantage of it. They win two games at home. They've been playing really well at home. You mentioned the point, exciting game Saturday against Boston, not so much Sunday against

Philadelphia, but they win them both. Finding ways to win games. So, I mean, that's kind of the overview. Then there's the minutia. And then, hey hey You know what said the I was filling in on the the islander leaf came and I kind of said hey Let's have one kick-ass game. Let's not have a 3-2 win. That was Saturday I mean you got Matthew Nyes with the hat trick you got Matthews Matthews is back five points Marner's back Five plus fives nice is plus six

So that was kind of one of those fun games every now and then. You want one of those fun games. And ideally, because we always talk about the playoffs, one game each round is that kind of fun style that you win. So that's what I saw. Yeah, I love just how they're winning in different styles and you alluded to it there.

I think one of the complaints about this Leafs team over this year is that at times it's been boring, but you know, I'm not going to complain about wins because wins are wins. It's hard to get in this league, but Saturday night looks so much different than a lot of these games have looked and they showed that they can win sort of a shootout. I don't think Joseph Wall was particularly sharp on Saturday night and they kind of picked him up as he's picked them up in many games. I thought Saturday night was an awesome hockey game and it just, there's a lot to take out

of it so hmm which also led to the Austin Matthews coming back after a six game he was away for six games yeah so let's pick up Craig Broby on Austin Matthews returning and then we'll take it from there solid I mean that line was really good, obviously. But overall, I thought he played a pretty good game. Pretty, you know, smart game, I thought. I thought he was very smart tonight. Didn't over-exert himself, didn't put himself in tough spots. And, you know, we managed his minutes pretty good,

I thought. I used them a little bit more at the end of the game, obviously, but kind of got to that point If If I'm correct, I think he played under 20 minutes Saturday 17 something which is a fairly low number here for him But okay kippy. What was the point of him being vague last week? like not even saying I could return on the weekend

okay, you know, so I So when he didn't say that you remember we talked about that when he didn't even say there's a date that he could come back So what okay? I'm gonna read positives. Look how well he played he played really well and he was back Or is that just the worry that at any time, whether it was the Gilbert hit in Buffalo, that it could go back again and this situation is not gonna correct itself unless, say, surgery or something happens. I don't know, I'm gonna park that.

But anyway, I was just glad he was back, but it was interesting. He had that kind of that amicable chat, but with everybody, and everybody, I thought he was gonna be gone for quite some time, so I was pleasantly surprised. I'm just not sure if he was well prepared like if he had a thought process thought process in his mind when he first

got approached about returning if he really Was well prepared like he kind of left it out there and I'm not sure if it was... We had the clip from, was it what? Earlier this week I just grabbed it. Yeah. The one where he was talking... Yeah, let's play it one more time. That clip I just put into there, Derek, please.

Do you feel like this is something, Austin, that with the appropriate amount of rest you will be able to put behind you at some point this season? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I hope so. That's obviously the goal. You know, it's tricky with these things sometimes. You know, it's a physical sport, it's a contact sport. So, you know, things happen out there sometimes that are out of your control. So just try to manage it as best as I can and that we can and just go from there. I think he was like brutally honest and he those are the first thoughts that came to his mind. But I don't think he really like brutally honest and he those are the first thoughts that came to his mind

But I don't think he really thought about the ramifications of those comments and how open-ended it left people to think like Like what is he trying to say here that he doesn't believe he'll ever be 100% healthy again for at least the remainder of this season and we're just gonna have to give and take this situation or You know, is he possibly leaving himself an out? So if in fact he doesn't look good, he can turn around and say hey, like I told you I'm just trying to deal with it And I don't know if I'm gonna feel great again this year Like it just it just kind of left it.

And then lo and behold, he plays both the games on the weekend. And he plays great. He plays great. I was stunned. Like when you start seeing the news trickling in of him leading the stretch at practice and he's practicing in the full,

I couldn't believe it. And I guess that just goes to that clip that we played earlier in the week where he's talking about how he's not sure if he's gonna be healthy and you just have to do this and you just have to do that. Like, I don't know, seeing that he was playing, my first reaction was like, is he trying to prove

to everybody that he's healthy enough to play in the Four Nations? That was my first thought. But then he goes out there on Saturday night and he's excellent. I thought it was the best he looked the whole season in terms of speed, physicality, decisiveness. I thought he looked the best he looked all year,

so I don't even know what to think. I'm completely lost on it. I know last year, like I mentioned a few times during the All-Star break, did a fan forum, couple fan forums with him, Mitch Marner, Morgan Riley, and William Nylander, and they were fun to do, and one is Steve Keough, the PR guy said, if you're taking questions from the crowd,

like Austin doesn't want to be asked anymore about scoring 70 goals, right? Because that's all he was being asked last year, you're going to score whatever goals. And I'm sure he's tired of being asked about this all the time. So maybe he's taught himself, I'm not going to back myself in a corner ever. Okay, that's part one. Or the other part, again, we're playing amateur doctor here. Is it just something that again, kaboom, he's not there for game one of the playoffs or

game four or game four or game whatever it may be down the road. So I, yeah, I just thought when he didn't put like, we knew Ovechkin was going to be back in four to six weeks. Yeah. And he's back. Yeah. Okay, fine. And Austin Matthews made it seem that must be the best rest he's ever got Kipper. He said he needed so maybe he got like two eight hour REM sleeps or something that were off the charts got it better Yeah, we got to go to that sleep specialist that got him back on Saturday. I Do buy into I think the internal pressure he feels to be ready to play for the team

USA and this four nations I I do I buy into it. I think there's a Ton of pressure on him to be a face of the Team USA. Yeah. And I mean, the calendar's turned here to January 2025. We're less or not less, but about a month away here from it starting. You need to prove to everybody in the hockey world that you're ready to go for that. And like Saturday night was stunning to me how good he looked. So I don't know. Team USA, before Saturday you're thinking could be without the last American to win the Heart Trophy, Austin Matthews, and Quinn Hughes, a viable Norse Trophy candidate,

even a Heart Trophy candidate. So all of a sudden you're looking at those possibilities not being there. So, but you know, Kipi, the, like it still comes down to at what point, you know, things have changed as we know. So whose call is it, whether it goes to the First Nations or not? And also, like I mean, the player at the end of it, you know, decades ago, maybe the team could say,

but now with the doctor saying you can play versus the team saying, why don't you rest? Why don't you rest? That would be better for the team thing. And the players say, no, no, I'm plotting through the regular season I'm going to do it and also is it different because it's the first it's the Four Nations versus the Olympics like might there be You know like Steve Eisenman in 2002 like he really He he really defined his season. He wasn't the same after and they won Stanley Cups anyway in other years So I I'm just interested you think it's the players call family cups anyway in other years. So I'm just interested.

Do you think it's the players call? To play in the Four Nations? I can't definitively say yes or no on that. I will say this though, that the players today, particularly these superstars, have never had more power ever to make calls on when to play, when not to play, when to see a second or third opinion.

In every sport. To take, yeah, in general, for sure. And I do believe that, particularly with the Four Nations, it doesn't have, of course, the cache of the Olympics, but maybe from an eternal point of view, this is the players Tournament this is to create revenue

So they can build up their Their own personal contracts or the salary Catholic this is their baby here Mm-hmm, and maybe there's even more pressure on him to be that leader for their tournament compared to a double IHF sanctioned Olympics in many ways. Like, I don't know, did he not tweet something between him and Conor McDavid that was kind of- Think it's a McDonald's commercial. Of course it is. Of course it is.

And of course it is closer to maybe a four nations. So all of that kind of comes into play here for for a guy that says okay I gotta get my act going here. Okay, if it doesn't feel great, whatever I'm dealing with bad back or wrist Whatever it is hip. I Gotta I gotta get back in and just start playing some games again So don't so don fear as head of the players association Misread the players about how hockey players want to play best on best international hockey.

He misread that. He didn't understand his constituents, how significant it was. And he quickly found out. And they were bitterly disappointed when they couldn't go to the Olympics when COVID reared its ugly head again. So these guys haven't played since the Young Guns game in 2016. So we're talking like eight plus years after so you know Sam I just think they all want to go and I like that I like that I just think they all

Even though it's not the Olympics they are gung-ho to go I think a lot of this has to do with us being in a Canadian market a lot of the fans being fans of Canadian hockey and being like oh you shouldn't go and Because you know he's the best player for a bitter rival probably has a lot to do with some of the bias as well and because you know, he's the best player for a bitter rival probably has a lot to do with some of the bias as well But we've talked about a lot of outcomes with Matthews in terms of the LTI are and all that missing the four nations and long-term health and all this but the ideal scenario is that he's just What he looked like on Saturday like you're gonna have the best chance to win the Stanley Cup if Austin Matthews just looks like He did like that to me as a fan was incredibly encouraging to see that because I didn't think he

Had that kind of stuff in him like I know it wasn't he only played 17 minutes, but he didn't would you agree that that's the best he looked Maybe there was I think I was colored glasses. I guess pretty good Here was not very good. I know I know but It's it's one game coming off another, what, two and a half weeks off. Yeah, it's like when your son or daughter comes home from university for Christmas,

that first day, then by the time they go back, you're ready. For me to be as, I just went through it. Super encouraged, you know, to your extent, like you gotta see a bigger sample size here of what he's gonna look like in the next week or two Totally fair, you know and I thought he took a step back immediately on last night Saturday night, but this is Sunday night. Sorry last night, but this is also Their fifth and not Austin's but the team's fifth

back to back. Mm-hmm. Like weekend consecutively. It's like crazy. It's crazy. Well, they didn't travel. So that's a plus. But also he played both games, which quite often when you come back from an injury and you have some breathing space in first place that you, you know, you take that opportunity not to play. So I thought that was another,

as we play amateur doctors assessing his health situation. Nice. Matthew Nice on a nice little heater guard. Also some highlight real goals. Like man, if you're gonna do a hat trick, they all weren't garbage, they all weren't garbage tip-ins, that one goal in particular.

So you gotta give Barube a ton of credit here with him because he went out in the media Called him out said he needed him play more reckless that he wasn't getting enough from multiple days in a row He said something about nice and then he comes out and responds like this I mean, he's looked the best in the three games and on New Year's Eve where he gets the goal disallowed And then the last two games he's been the best. He's looked all year So I mean, give credit to some to the coach for calling him out. All right, let's get a thought on Matthew Nyes from Craig Barube.

I have three goals and five points in every game. But can that be a bit of a coming up part of it? That was a whole year for me. I thought he was a great player tonight. Just, you know, challenging their D with his speed, direct shooting, you know. I liked that he just attacked and shot and wasn't always looking for the other guys, you know. He was just, he was playing his game, which was very effective and the whole line was really good. So something there that I thought Borny's brought up a lot and was something we've mentioned is that he said that he was looking for his shot not deferring.

You know like I feel when he plays with Matthews and Marner that he really feels like he has to defer to those guys because they're two of the best players in the league and he mentioned it there that he was decisive, he was shooting the puck, he was making moves to the net. That's what they need to see from him. I mean, six, five points plus six. Dumping and chasing too. And I get it. I've been in scenarios where you just wanna appease the coach

and do exactly what he says. But there are times when he needs to hold onto the puck or look for different options. And to me, that's just a sign of maturity when he's not racing to get to the front of the net to battle. Sometimes you can get there too early, the puck never gets there. I think his goal last night was a prime example of just feeling the game and the rhythm of it and arriving in front of the net when the time's most opportunistic.

Well it's funny sometimes it is that simple about go to the net and also shoot the puck and I know as fans when you watch your kids play you're always yelling shoot the puck, shoot the puck. Now it's not that easy in the NHL because everyone's trying to block the puck. I used Morgan Riley I thought one or two times against the Islanders. You know, he had a better chance to shoot than whatever. And finally, he gets the goal in overtime and the D contributes with some secondary scoring.

But I think, you know, with guys like Matthew Nise and younger players, to your point, Kipy, sometimes make it simple like that. And rather than saying, oh my God, you got to find a better player to give it to or just dump it in, hey, take a shot every now and then, you and then and then go hard after it because he's a guy that will go To the greasy area so he's not a perimeter player And I think to your point you know Sam you mentioned the coach kind of saying yeah If you don't think it's good enough of late, you're right. Yeah, it's not good enough late Yeah, so that so and the other thing is just make it easier on yourself to make it better for you.

Yeah, you know, you've mentioned it a million times, Kipper, but it's a lot of pressure on this guy who's played however many NHL games to be playing top line left wing for the Toronto Maple Leafs who are trying to win a cup and feels like he's starting to really feel it after getting called out. So hopefully that can continue

and he kind of breaks through the wall like he had last year So we know that lines Going very well can is can the Leafs get two lines going hot at the same time because It just seems now Tavares particularly patch already and and Willie Nylander have hit a bit of a Petruredi and and Willie Nylander have hit a bit of a

Lull here on they didn't have a good weekend personally. I mean great results for the team But you know I mentioned in our pregame show last night. You can't really have one line be plus 16 on On the same night label that your second line is minus six. Yeah Yeah, great. That's not great. So, obviously, and again, we keep looking and we know depth in the playoffs is always huge and something that depth scoring has eluded them in the past. But it's been a team, hey, even when you had, you know, Robertson, McMahon and Domi as a line that were doing the scoring for a couple of games, then you had Tavares that carried them, you know, for a couple of games. And what I've seen is it's

kind of, there have been games where there's been depth score. There have like, there's been games, there's probably been lots of them. But it seems like a good, almost like a good batting order in baseball, that a different individual gets hot for a couple of games, and then someone else gets hot. And even they're batting average numbers are kind of the Same they're winning games because someone's again that old thing finding ways to winning games and that and that's what I've liked this year That it's been different lines at times that have done it But they found ways to win games with one line you want to get more. I mean Willie knee ladder. Come on Come on. He's got he's got a he's gonna get his points

He's up there leading among the top goal scorers until a couple of games ago and that, it's gonna come. But yeah, in a perfect world, they have all the tools to get that depth scoring. I think that's sort of the root of the issue with that line at the moment is Willie's not playing well at this very moment. And you know, we've all had the experience with Willie, we know the ups and downs of it. You know, you don't accept the downs as much when he's making top dollar in the NHL, but I think he's the straw that stirs the drink in that line.

He's the puck carrier. He's the guy that's kind of shooting in the net for them. Like, they need him to be going for that line to be effective, and he's just not. He's not. For me, and I'll kind of revert back to, like, your fifth back-to-back. I mean, that does not tend well for John Tavares

and Pacioretty. They're not quick speedy guys. They grind, they're along the walls, they're battling in front of the net. Pacioretty's hammering guys every night. And they look to me like they've ran out of a little bit of steam here on the weekend Is Willie still tired from the five-minute shift?

Pace of play yeah me yeah, that's the number one thing yeah, so but when Austin was I who came up Yeah, no no no no no question You're right about and back to back those kind of players comes into play a little bit more, particularly the speed of the game nowadays. Yeah, and Willie has done a nice job of kind of keeping the bad games, you know, far and few like earlier in his career. But like, I can't recall him seeing him as bad as I saw him last night. He battled.

Last night was brutal. Yeah, it was brutal. It was. Well, back in the Mike Babcock era, there was. There were a couple shifts I thought, I couldn't tell whether he was walking his dog or not. I mean. Makes the, he doesn't seal the boards,

Puck goes, that's one of the ways that Puck goes in. I mean, he hasn't scored now in seven games. His last goal was December 21st against the Islanders. Like they just, you know, if you're, like I said earlier, if you're making the top goal score money, you kind of got to shoot it in the net a little bit more, but you'll get it back. Okay. So I'll ask you first, Gordon, then you, Sammy, how nervous were you when you saw that first

goal go in on the Hilda beast last night? The 40 foot wrist shot far post. It's yeah, it's it's it's the curse of everything, whatever level of hockey you play, right? And it's like, okay, the Leafs seem to have their depth goal tending, the best it's been in forever. And we're looking at number three and number four guys him and Matt Murray. So yes, that that one you go, Oh my god, don't tell me what's been in forever. And we're looking at number three and number four guys, him and Matt Murray. So yes, that one you go, oh my God, don't tell me what's gonna happen.

And to their credit, the team helps the goaltender get out of a bit of a jam. But those kind of goals, you've had, see Charlie Lindgren in Washington's had a couple of those. And again, in one of them, the team helps him get out of jam. But yeah, I gotta say, I'm not gonna throw names out there, but the old era where the goaltenders weren't as skilled Sammy

It prayed conjured up memories of eye rolls screaming pull them after that one. It gave me Foresters Rishon give me Gustafson vibes. I won't all name names giving Jonas Gustafson vibes on that shot That's one of the first thing I thought. He rebounded well, man. He battled. I'll give him full credit. I couldn't believe how good he looked after that because he's in a competition here now. I don't know how long they're out with Stolarz,

but they tried Murray over him and Murray didn't look particularly good, as we all know. So they brought Hildeby back up and he's in a competition to stay in the NHL and he lets in a stinker first two shifts of the game. You think it could hurt him and he responded well. So give him credit, but man. That's another game where teams leave going,

we got a goaltend. Yeah. For me. Yeah. Fedotov. Yeah. Like, they're giving up at least one bad goal a game and last night for the Flyers, same thing, just bad goals. Yeah.

So, you know, a big talk over the weekend because the Browns had a new quarterback and it was 40 quarterbacks since 1999 for the Cleveland Browns. Since Ron Hextall how many goalies have the flyer the Flyers they have had such weird goalie luck forever like think about even when they went to the finals in that Mike Richards year it's six goalies was it was Boucher got them in on that last day of the year then it was late it was late like they signed Breeze Gallagd all that money. They've let Bobrovsky go, like,

Chuck Manek, Robert Ash, like all these different guys that have played goalie for them. It's a really weird thing with them. They've never had a goalie. So it's funny, they had Bernie Perrante was phenomenal. They had Pelle Lindbergh who died tragically. Then they had Ron Hextall who was phenomenal. And then their mistake, Sammy and Kipi.

Everyone assumed Curtis Joseph was going to Philadelphia. And when all those goaltenders were moving around and whatever, they jumped early and got John Van Beesbrook and then Kujo came to Toronto. So that might have solved their goaltending woes back then. I'm glad Kujo came to Toronto. I think Kujo was glad he came to Toronto as far as things worked out. But you're right. It's it's a they're sort of no renowned for not having that. Yeah real guy I mean Carter Hart. Yeah, we'll have to wait and see what happens but obvious for obvious reasons

Look like he could be that guy but isn't right now. Yeah, and also keep in mind too It's not as bad as the Browns, but still we had we had Keith Jones on yeah as the Browns, but still. We had Keith Jones on about four weeks ago. That's a while ago. It was a while ago, a month ago. And he made it abundantly clear on our show, they are selling and we have no thoughts about thinking about making moves to strengthen us

just for the sake of trying to stay in the race. He's gotta tell the team they're not rebuilding. The message has not got to the Flyers. Last year they were in the playoffs 70 games. I don't know. It's great. You kidding me? It's great.

These teams that are supposed to... And then, unfortunately, the fans turn on them a bit with their expectations. You're going, no, these guys are doing a very intelligent rebuild. Do you not remember the excitement for Mishkov at the beginning of the year and talking about how this guy's going to be the savior and it's like I'm watching him last night and going hey I think he's got a chance to be a good player but he's not going to build you a new arena like Eric Landrose did. No, and the other, do you remember when Jack Hughes was taken first overall by the Devils,

and then, because they fly right away and they have those rookies, and then it was sold out, whatever the practice facility was, to watch Jack Hughes three days after the draft, or I don't know if they sold tickets, but it was full, and you go, he's turned into a really nice player, a star player, but at 18, he wasn't that guy then, nor the next year.

But he could always skate, and this guy can't skate. Not like that. Oh year, but he could always skate Oh, yeah, I know this guy can't skate but the same not like that. Oh, no, but this is well No, but he still could be a hell of a player. I'm just saying I don't I don't gauge at year number one Yeah, there's very few players are gonna build you a new arena because you're right people realize Eric Lindros built that arena Eric Lindros built that arena in Philadelphia like at the You know, they kind of forget there people forget that but yeah, I know which You know, they kind of forget, or people forget that, but yeah, I know it's, hey, the whole thing about getting too excited about, that's when you're losing too much. And you know, we did it back in my era, too many, and Mitchickoff isn't underage, but too many underage players being rushed ahead of their time.

And that's why I like, you know, Joe Wall, Matthew Nyes, and Bobby McMahon, you know, guys that earned their way, earned their way on the Toronto Maple Leaf team. You know, you didn't rush Easton Cowan, you didn't, you know, others, but that's a way when you're struggling, and that's a mistake too many teams make. Yeah, it's funny, Mishkov, I don't think

Cece, Chris Cuthbert, called his name until he had the puck in overtime. Like, I barely, he was barely involved at all, so. And towards his, you guys talked about it a little bit on the broadcast on the broadcast with way towards his handling him and he's trying to kind of Help him with the rookie wall and all that stuff. Like he seems to be doing a good job managing it but yeah, you're right not sheltering him either in terms of the perception of of This guy just being a great player he's got a lot to learn away from the puck and he's He's gonna make him earn it. So just to close off the Hildeby question

before we go to break here. So he looked good enough here to get the next backup start. Like, did you see enough from him where you'd maybe try to sneak one in here in this week? Or is it wall, wall, wall this week? I haven't really looked at this schedule. So there's Tuesday. Tuesday and then Thursday. Thursday, Saturday.

Yeah, I think Hildeby earned another start for sure. Like don't underestimate what Matt Murray's body's been through with two hip surgeries and just to retrain his body, his mind at the American Hockey League, he needs reps, he needs starts, and I don't think they're gonna race him back up here. It's a great story, and he's been playing well

in the American Hockey League, but even though he won in Buffalo, he didn't play great up here, but it's just a great story, him being back. And then, yeah, he'll be, like, when you've got a young, first of all, you're in first place, and you're not playing games like you're fighting for a playoff spot every night, where you've got a young, first of all, you're in first place and you're not playing games like you're fighting for a playoff spot every night

where you maybe are a little bit more desperate and maybe would ride the hot goaltenders. So, I don't know, it is funny people, we get what we worry too much about the 13th forward, the seventh D and the third goal. You know, you're just hoping you stole ours and wall or the guys, because the goal-turning has, as to your point, Kip,

has dropped off a bit. The effectiveness in Stolar's got hurt, and you hope that they find that again, whether it's both of them, hopefully both of them being healthy, but just in general heading into the playoffs. To me, I'm going to Hildaby on Thursday night. I'm not doing three starts in a week for Wall. Anyways, we should take a break and then talk about McCabe.

All right. Yeah, absolutely. Plenty more to get into including the Leafs starting to get a little bit of offense from the blue line. Morgan Reilly with the overtime goal last night. McCabe on the weekend against Boston. Edmund Larson too. OEL. OEL with a one handed poke. Plus, obviously, we're going to get into, as you said, Sammy, the in-depth situation with Jake McCabe. We'll give you guys an update as well and we'll tell you which leaf got a little lighter

in the wallet last night. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Hey, it's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Feuda. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. born. the the the the the

the the after leaving Sunday's game, Gord, with I don't know what they're calling it, an upper body injury, but we all saw either he got punched or hit his head on the ice. It doesn't appear like we'll see him probably for another two weeks, which already kind of goes with the five games that he missed after he was hit in the side of the head earlier in the season on an errant shot. Yeah, well you had the history about it being a tough player and dealing with concussions and it just again, we're playing amateur doctor but you saw that look and how wobbly he was

and we all know that from playing sports or watching sports. You made a really good point on the broadcast about like that's a tough dude that's as good a fighter and and that when you're on top like I can't fight but I could lie on top and that would probably be my best defense whatever I mean Riddle Sergius because once he got up yeah and and you know and good on McCabe is sticking up for a teammate and that but once he got up he was vulnerable to that unfortunately and a couple years ago he had Matt Dumba playing really well for Minnesota and felt he had to answer the call against Calgary. I'm trying to I can't remember who it was but he got involved he hit somebody now he didn't get a concussion but he wrecked his shoulder and was out

the rest of the season so I really hope in McCabe's case we everyone starts jumping about okay Jake Muzzin, you remember a Leafs defenseman recently that unfortunately these things started to accumulate and we're optimistic that's not the case here. But that, man, there's just a nice core four going right now. And that was the one unfortunate point post game and Barube mentioned that. Yeah, it seemed like Garnet Hathaway and McCabe had something going Throughout the game a little earlier, too And just the least PR announced today that he's on IR retroactive January 5th

So that's you know he's on IR for a while Marshall Raffaei has been recalled, but Yeah I think Hathaway kind of had a bee in his bonnet after Benoit hammered him early in the game He got him pretty good behind the net and then he got into it with McCabe like you said. And then I mean he ran the goal. So okay hold on. You know I appreciate McCabe's message to Hathaway for that because I don't want anybody

anywhere near my goalie. I get that but Was it that bad? It wasn't did he really run the goalie or was it? Maybe a typical play that like I didn't see it as bad as a guy that is running the goalie now again I'm okay with the consistent message from McCabe or any other Toronto Maple Leafs that this is not It's gonna be different this year. I get all of that But it wasn't it wasn't crazy of a of a contact or collision for me. Yeah. Well in hindsight, especially

Right. I agree with you I know I know we'll talk later about Max Domi because I looked at the that that that's more last year That infamous shot on the bench where they appeared to be indifferent to Marchand's hit, right, which I know they weren't feeling that way, but I mean, so that's where it's understood that part's gotta be different this year. Even optically, it's gotta be different.

So yeah, I don't know if they were jawing at each other, whatever it may be, but a core 4D and that, you don't need them going after as tough a guy as there is in the NHL. Again, if you do, it's okay, but just remember that this is Hathaway, who is one of the tougher guys, can handle himself, he's 6'2", 215, he's not like- Beast, he's a beast.

Not a mouse. No. So, you know, once he, and I said this last night, once he got him down and McCabe gave him a pretty good shot. Big time. Oh yeah, yeah. He drove his head into the ice. Yeah.

Like at that point, if you're gonna do that, if you're Jake McCabe and you're gonna do that, then just stay on. Because you're pissing him off. Just do not let him get up. Like you know, you've got him mad. Yeah, he's getting up mad, you know, on top of that, right? You know, in the heat of the moment.

And yeah, and that's exactly what happened. Yeah, listen, I would be talking out of both sides of my mouth if I said that it wasn't that bad and he probably shouldn't have done anything because I've sat on this very chair for three seasons and talked about how the least have never done anything in these kinds of situations. So I love that he responded.

I love that he's a warrior and he thought that he had to fight one of the toughest guys in the league. And it's a super unfortunate outcome, a brutal one for the Leafs. But I'd be so upset if he did nothing. Like he took an aggressive, it wasn't that bad, but it's bad enough where he takes an aggressive, he takes an aggressive line and runs into the goalie Yeah, it deserves a response and you just can't let him get up can't let him get up Chuck Yeah knuckles with one of the guys in the league. Yeah, once you recovered from your hasty

Flight driving late to the last minute to the studio. You got your wits about you. Yeah, I thought now The next part and sorry I know you're coordinating the flow but I don't know you go or this is wide open buddy you take over like potpourri for 40 so the next thing is so Max Domi yes okay and I know I think I think Craig Simpson made the point well it's not a great penalty to take in the offensive zone the game's tied but I I also got to say that you can't really maybe necessarily wait for your chance that the message this year is we can't have that Marchand thing like last year. So

he just goes out there and whatever, you know, and just about, hey, you know, it needs a response and the best time for me to respond now. I got an extra two Please kill the penalty off because when you go back to the Broad Street bullies era, that's what they did They killed penalties off. I know it would simmer maybe laughs so hard He's like when you got your stick up in the air like it's a fly Give me a good laugh. I I can't disagree that it wasn't a great penalty right for sure, but When you sign Max Domi that it wasn't a great penalty, right? For sure, but... when you sign Max Domey, this is the stuff that you're kind of looking for.

And... But isn't that more important? Doesn't that trump it being a bad penalty? Well, I think it just stays consistent that this isn't the Leafs of yesteryears where we, to Sammy's point, we just get ruled that someone's going to come back and he's going to get you. Now Hathaway, if I'm not mistaken, has already got a history with Max Domi. I think they fought when he was with Arizona and something happened to Max's hand, ended

up in surgery for a Broken dislocated thumb or something. So he's already got a burr up is you right over? Doesn't like him a whole lot doesn't like him a whole lot. So it'll it'll be real interesting tomorrow night When they go at it again But this is a little bit of the cost of business of having a Max Domey in your lineup is that he needs to send messages every once in a while. He's followed him a couple times. Couple times? Yeah, he followed him a couple times.

He followed him when he was with Montreal too. Yeah, well tomorrow night they might add to that. Well, this is the big question, and one of the things that was getting sent to me a lot, and Peter that is. Reeves. Reeves. Reeves. Gotta go tomorrow.

Gotta go. Okay. Yeah, no questions asked. And that would be my first choice is like, okay, Garnet. Okay, say hello to my little friend. Well, Reeves hasn't fought yet this year. So is this first one going to be against

Garnet Hathaway? I don't think you need any other reason. So you still think he, if you're Borube and you're going into that dressing room tomorrow and you're starting Ryan Reeves, you're having the conversation with him that like, no matter what happens in this game, we can't leave it without you fighting Garnet Hathaway. No, no, no. Those conversations don't happen that way, Sammy. No? No. Just doesn't, it's an unspoken thing? It's an unspoken thing.

Yeah. No. Ryan Reeves. Just no. And by the way, to get Max Domi, keep in mind another rule. He filled in at center very capably in the playoffs last year. So there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of elements to him. You know, one doesn't seem to be scoring a ton of goals, but there's a lot of elements to him. You know, one doesn't seem to be scoring a ton of goals, but there's a lot of elements to him.

But I agree, you know, I'm not, I like that the era of arranged fights isn't there anymore, but that's a given. Tuesday's a given, you know, whatever, you know, at, you knock one of our top four D out, regardless of maybe he deserved it by the way he pounded away at you but that's a reason ryan reeves is on the team and ryan reeves knows it yeah all right back at it tuesday night so a

guy that it kind of popped me on the flyers and has been um kind of been rumored as a potential trade candidate was scott lotton thought he looked good last night. That's a guy to me that Local guy if the Leafs are looking for a third line center type of guy That's a guy that I'd love them to look at thoughts Three million this year next yeah, I guess I think you just got to keep an eye on Austin for between now and the trade deadline and just I May they might need a higher upgrade than for between now and the trade deadline and just I May they might need a higher upgrade than

Lotten for me Sammy. Okay, okay, and I don't mind them, you know I think you'll be fine but like maybe you got to go a little higher and to me I Want a guy that I can throw in on the second line if I've got a bump John down. I don't know at that point how John's legs are at the end of the year, if he's gonna be able to kind of hold his spot as the second line centerman.

But I may need a centerman to run 2A, 2B with John. That's fair. Yeah, and you mentioned thoughts. I'd also like to see what's out there, right? And obviously that's what Brad Scherliving and his staff are doing. And it's just Ryan O'Reilly and Nick Folano, it's unfortunate in both cases, injuries were a big part of things not working out here. But the results didn't happen in Toronto and they cost you first round picks. And at some point you're seen with players being developed from within that you can't

keep trading away first round picks. And so I still maintain I'd rather have complimentary players than give it then trading a first round pick. So that would enter into what you may get, what may be out there. Again, if Austin Matthews isn't healthy, or heaven forbid forbid Jake McCabe, then you start looking at things differently around the trade deadline. Obviously, you got to go a little bit bigger. Morgan Riley ends up with the winning goal in overtime. Let's go to Craig Berube on scoring from his back end. Clip four. I don't look at it as a concern. I mean, I think we always try to

what can we do better, you know, to score with our D. We're trying to activate them a little bit more, which they've been in the play more on rushes and things like that. And then, you know, in the offensive zone, you know, they, tonight I thought our D2 did a real good job of activating back door, Kaver scored, and we missed two other ones. We had some couple good looks there. did a real good job of activating back door. Kaver scored and we missed two other ones. We had a couple of good looks there. There you go.

That's from Saturday night. Any concern over the dry December for you from the leaf-brew line? Well, I don't know what the word is, but I would say if it carried on, you know, yes, but just about depth scoring, right? So it's got to come from different places. It tends to be streaky. And you know, I mean, what's like they don't have a guy like Renske or whatever. They don't have double digit goal scores from back there. I know Morgan Riley was that guy in other years and a lot of people think he could be that guy from, you know,

moving forward OEL had some positive offensive years. So again, it came up when they needed it. Would you like more? Of course you'd like more. You know, the better teams have a little bit more, but it's, they got off kind of the Schneid the last couple of weeks, scored some big goals. Yep.

You know, we'll see more of Morgan Reilly jumping up now. I think so. In the back half of the season. I, you know, I'd like to think so. And I, I, and again, like I mentioned, I thought half of the season? I'd like to think so. Again, like I mentioned, I thought he passed up some great, some better shot. When I was doing that Islander game and whatever, I thought of late. Maybe it gets in your head about you pass up some what look like decent shot opportunities.

I'd like to see him take more of them. You had OEL, the one game again against the Islanders. It was kind of a harmless looking shot. But if you get it through and it goes to the net, good things can happen as well. So you know, maybe this will be a little bit of a tip of an iceberg. It feels like they've got a little chemistry between him and Myers. I've liked Myers since, I don't know, maybe the last few weeks. He's been out a while now.

Yeah. But I mean, to me, he had a great start and I thought the arrow was pointing down. Myers is pointing up. I don't think either of them are immune a great start and I thought the arrow was pointing down Myers point No, but I don't think either of them are immune from being in and out of the lineup But I think I've liked Myers a lot more recently and it's got a bit of chemistry with Riley But he'll be he'll be back in now that McCabe's gonna be out for some time. What's the deal with Timmons? As you heard they've liked Myers a lot so this just I've like Connor Timmons. You have a better than Myers?

Yes. You'd have Timmons in game one in first round? Yeah, okay. Have you started tomorrow night? Yeah. Stanley Cup playoffs. Would you have Timmons? I'd rather make a trade and get Quinn Hughes. But anyway, yeah. Okay, so...

Speaking of trades, I gotta say, okay, so it was the anniversary, Sammy would have been in diapers back then, but you were playing in the NHL and you were close to winning a Stanley Cup. But man, you just can't make trades like this anymore. But it was the anniversary in 1992, the 10 player trade between the May police and the Calgary Flames and Doug Gilmore and Jamie McCown. Like he was a hell of a player too coming over with Rick Nattress, Rick Wamsley and Ken Manderville went the other way.

I'm trying to get them straight. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm missing. But the key was going the other way, Gary Lehman, Michelle Petit, Alexander Gdyniuk, Jeff Reiss and Craig Berube. And Craig Berube was a big part of the trade. Like Craig Berube, Calgary really valued. Craig Brewery was a big part of the trade like Craig Barube Calgary really valued he only he just he'd come in a big trade He'd come from Edmonton in the Grand Fior trade to Toronto. He'd only played for about three months, but

So Toronto's great run decades ago in a way We give some props to Craig Barube because being able to be a piece in that trade I think can't matter but was the other name coming'm coming back all right listen we gotta get going here okay who's coming on Jerry D Jerry D comedian you're not the only one with the laughs