Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Back to 'Team A, Team B'

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 3-0 loss to the Senators and discuss Toronto's lack of secondary scoring, whether this group best fits Craig Berube's style and Max Domi losing confidence. Then, they look ahead to the Leafs' matchup against the Capitals tonight and share expectations for Joseph Woll who gets the starting nod in the back-to-back. Later, Hockey Night in Canada's Craig Simpson (32:03) weighs in on the Leafs' lack of depth, Berube's messaging and the attention to detail on defence.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right it's back to back game day here on real kipper and born this is the leaf hour edition of our show nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandale jake the Snake Schultz here to dissect it all we are live on Sportsnet 590 the fans, Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet Plus let's welcome him in from a very busy day, he was on assignment

started at the morning skate with your family, JB glad to have you back on board yeah, thanks for holding down the fort yesterday, guys. I had a great day. Thanks to you guys for doing that. Thanks to the Maple Leafs for helping my brother and his wife have a good experience yesterday.

Yeah, no, it was all good things. And all I have to say about the hockey game was I'm glad we get another one tonight as a palate cleanser because whoo! Let me ask. It's not the perfect end of the day. Now that the Leafs were so sweet to you and they took your brother around and his brother's wife

and you got lots of pictures, lots of players, you're going to come on and be like, God, they played great last night. You know, there's just a couple spots last night where they could have been a little better, but I thought overall it was a good outcome. Nearly a fall of show last night, in my opinion. I'll hear no rebuttals to that.

All right, before we get into a great detail of what we saw last night and what we can expect tonight, we had a bit of a conversation here. And my guy, Sammy here, almost like laughed me out of the show yesterday because I suggested that this was going to be a little bit maybe of a coming out party for the Ottawa Senators to get back into a battle of Ontario, and he just laughed at me. He just said, you're making a bigger deal out of the game. And I'm like, Ottawa's going to come out,

and they're going to make a statement here. And he laughed at me. Sam? If that's the version of the events you want to live in, that's fine. What I said was that I don't think, I was scoffing at the fact that the Battle of Ontario is big and that it's a big game

and that the first game between these two teams in November is a really big game. I didn't think it was that big a game. I didn't. I think today it feels like it was a big game. Well, I think one team thought it was a really big game and the other team didn't. And I'll let you guess which is which, but I think it's pretty easy to figure out. So I based it all on JB at watching the Montreal Canadiens

embarrass themselves here Saturday night. Good on them. They went down to Buffalo. They found a way to get two points, hopefully turn things around. But I'm like, Ottawa knows the Montreal Canadiens laid an egg. They came in here last night, and it was a fork in the road for me into the season.

You want to send a message that you want to play with the big boys in the Atlantic Division with the Boston, or maybe not the Boston Bruins, but Tampa, Toronto, and Florida? Then you show you're closer to those guys than you are the Montreal montreal canadians and and maybe detroit and buffalo yeah we we wake up today kip and the ottawa senators are four points behind the least with two games in hand they got a better goal differential um you know they're they got themselves kind of back into the fight a little bit and i'll say it was a not even close last night watching that game

from the jump what stood out to me is uh a stat that i heard before the game started so uh pinto norris and stutzla have been together for a while but when they're all in the team they've only actually all been in the lineup 20 of the time yeah and when they're all in the lineup they play at 106 point pace as a team they win a lot pinto was out for i think eight or nine games yep he missed 41 last year with the gambling stuff so they get them all in they have all their centers and they i mean they were ready for a game that the leafs were not last night and i think waking up here today allmark gets a shutout it's tough not to look at the sins and say, playoff team. That looks like a playoff team to me.

I made the authorization last night on Lee stock and I'll make it here again. There was no comparison between the forward course last night for me in terms of whose was better, deeper, faster, stronger, more lethal. Like they came in here and you look at the least decor i think the least

decor as a whole is probably better but without austin matthews without max patch ready there is no comparison between the forward course right now right now throwing patch in there too hey well the reason i'm throwing him in there is because you have to play a third line of connor doer nick robertson and pontusmberg, who gives you absolutely nothing. Fourth line, they're trying to hit or whatever. So if Nylander and Marner don't have it, which I think it's pretty fair to say neither of them were very good last night, then what do you have? You have nothing. Like the secondary scoring is supposed to be McMahon, supposed to be Robertson, Holmberg.

These guys are supposed to domey. Guys are supposed to chip in, they ain't. And that's what it looks like. Noah Gregersheen, Pinto Michael Amadio, Cousin Scottette, McEwen was the bottom six for Ottawa last night. And certainly got at least one goal out of that group and did a pretty darn good job. Okay, before we get into more detail,

let's just get an overview from Craig Berube and what he saw. Well, it was not a good game, you know, for us. You know, there wasn't much good to talk about in the game overall. You know, we got outskated. You know, they wanted it more than us. That's the bottom line. What do you think of that, Kip? They wanted it more than us. That's the bottom line. What do you think of that, Kip? They wanted it more than us.

Yeah, that's all he needed to start and end with was that, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think he's right. I think he's right, but it just feels like maybe a little reductive and too simple and kind of the answer we're going to get when they lose. Yeah. Maybe a little reductive and too simple and kind of the answer we're going to get when they lose. Yeah. I mean, let's just, before I get my overall thought of that comment, I'll revisit it. Remind me, okay?

Okay. of the they just wanted it more than us there is a real now concern for what you were talking about about a bottom six that can't produce and how quickly do you want to see some changes either internally with the marley so they they called up Steve's yesterday. I think he's got eight, nine goals or nine and ten games with the Marlies. I'd find a way to get him into the lineup tonight. Oh, no question. I'd take someone on the blue line. Hockenpah is in, I believe, right?

Well, I don't think it's been confirmed. We don't know if he's in or not, but he's available. And so is Myers. Is Benoit struggling for you guys a little bit? Yep. So I think there could be changes, but I'm not sure if you're going to find answers there, but they're going to have to start shopping around here.

We saw a trade the other day between the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Washington Capitals that moved Lars Eller in. Is that something that might interest uh the leafs to go find something in the next week or two to kind of shore up here yeah you think that's an option i do i do i think it's it's there's been enough games to understand that there seems to be an issue uh on the bottom six right now when it comes to scoring or creating yeah you know um obviously matthews being out is significant but they're also kelly yarn crock now feels like he's not coming back he scored he scored 20 last year it was 20 last year the year before he might have had 15 last year but he's in that kind of range as a depth guy who chips in he's not coming

back uh anytime soon i don't think could be wrong on that but well he's i mean he's going to get a second opinion right on a sports hernia that doesn't exist so we'll see how that goes let's let's let's go to bruby on the lack of offense and how concerned is he clip two tonight we didn't have the puck so it's pretty tough to get score any goals when you don't have the puck they had the puck the whole game pretty much until the third period. You know, we got to generate more attempts at the net with, you know, people at the net and creating offense that way. You know, I mean, we just didn't do a good enough job tonight.

I mean, overall, it was just not a good game. Okay. They didn't have the puck all night because you tell them to get rid of it. Yeah. No, this is like such an everything's a nail to a hammer for me. You want them dumping it in and unlike

the Ottawa Senators last night when they did get it in deep they got it first. We're starting to hear from Willie and a few others, the one and done. Willie mentioned it last night. We were one and done. And it's, yeah, no kidding. You get the puck and you get rid of it and you dump it in.

And then you go into this north-south, which is fine when you can go get the puck and then do what Ottawa did after they get it and either start a cycle, get it back to the point, drive it to the net, sustain pressure, second and third opportunities. That's when you start looking like north-south works. Not last night. No.

No, what's really hard is like it you know we've had coaches on before and i've asked them i think peter laviolette and boudreaux you know do you coach the way you want to coach or do you coach to your roster and to a man you know everyone i've asked that too says you coach your roster you can't you know it has to fit the guys that you have even if you want to play a certain way. And that's emerging as a question for me is, is this roster able to do this north-south thing as effectively? So the Leafs now, to your point about dump-ins, dump it in the third most in the NHL, fourth most in the NHL. Three teams do it more. Can you tell me which teams?

The Florida Panthers, the Boston Bruins, and I forget the third team. But Florida does it the most in the league and then sam bennett and you know that you could chuck matthew kachuk and those guys go and hunt it and do their thing and even when they don't get it back they get body on someone and it's part of their identity you know the least i don't know that it comes as naturally to them well i don't want mitch marner or or Willie to dump it in. Right? And there's some times when you do have to based on percentages. Sure, you got no options.

The guy's standing up at the line. Like we don't want Willie to turn it over like in the first 40 seconds like he did at that blue line. But there's other factors that are involved. And that one was hey Morgan where are you? Willie's not the first superstar to turn the puck over

three feet inside the blue line. They all do it. It's not great but it shouldn't be a goal against. What matters is who's behind me. Right. Because of that i think i don't you know like i think it's related but uh i wrote an article today on their lack of five on five offense they're in the bottom half of the league in uh puck time in the ozone so they don't

have it as much to craig bruby's point as they used to and then here's the big one that stands out to me is the rush chances kip they're uh 29th in the nhl in rush chances four so they don't get anything off the rush last year they were seventh and i don't know remember keith you send the weak side wing across on the breakout so someone's flying the zone opposing d would back out and if they didn't you'd get a break and if they if the puck hopped over a stick you'd get a break they had no rush chances for this year. So, you know, this roster, I don't know. I don't know.

They're very good defensively. The best they've been defensively in years. Best they've been under this leadership. Okay, but you've had world-class goaltending, and you had world-class goaltending last night. If it isn't Stolarz, that thing's six or seven nothing.

It's not three. I mean, sorry to do this, Ilya. It was somewhere in Vegas. If it's Ilya Samsonov and now that's four nothing by the end of the first period. Four. And that can give you some good defensive

numbers too. He's second in the NHL in save percentage. But he was, he was, the fact that they were still in the game, like late in the second period is just only because of Stolarz. Yeah. Okay. So let me get it. Like, do you think, like, are you concerned about this team here?

Like I'm getting a tone from you. A little bit, yeah. Yeah, today I woke up and I said that, like, it's not built perfectly for Craig Berube. Yeah. You know, the one thing that does give me concern is everyone everyone's like they need to be this like defensive you know playoff style team or whatever we know they haven't scored in the playoffs in the past but the plan has been the core four will score you out of your trial they'll do the scoring let everyone else do whatever and that plan doesn't work and we know that and now it's more

dependent on them than ever yes ever it's it's more dependent on them than ever. Yes. Ever. It's never been more dependent on them. Never. Because at least last year you had Austin, who was like a goal, a game kind of guy. Right. He,

Tyler Bertuzzi scored 20 and he didn't get replaced. It, it was, it was always nice that you had that threat. Right. And it's gone. Yeah. At least to start the season it's gone it

hasn't been you hope you can come back next week and and start it up yeah but that's no longer there like i don't think they're the 18th best offensive team in the league i think they're a top you know they'll be 9th 10th whatever once austin comes back and has a hot run and like they're not gonna get shut out every night this team is decent offensively because of that core but you just don't want to only need four guys to score it was like okay nice is coming along yeah and part of this kip if not to go in too long a rant but i've been thinking about this for two days now is i think for mcmahon and robertson there's two guys who are supposed to take an offensive step, telling them

that they're the dump it in guys doesn't help them. That's not who McMahon is. Max Domi has lost some confidence. He doesn't look like he is. This is the longest he's gone in his NHL career without a point. That's an issue too because

he needs to be a secondary support guy. That's an issue too because he needs to be a secondary support guy. That's where he's at his best. Come in in short spurts to plug a hole here and there and find a way to kind of contribute, and that's completely dried up. I think he's at his best when he's ornery out there, right? You don't need to fight. You don't need to take bad penalties.

But you just got to be that gnat in someone's side. And he's not right now either. He's wearing it. Like, you know, he has that chance in front of the net at the end of the second period when it's still a game. If he pokes that in. It's a good save. It's a good save.

And it's a game. You go into the period, still's still a game if he pokes that in it's a good save it's a good save but like it's a game it's it's it you go into the period still in the hockey game but you know how the amount of skill that max tommy has in and around the net yeah he's totally rushes that like chops away at it just like i gotta get this towards the net like great save no question yeah but like if he's feeling it if he's in the flow maybe like quick cut to the backhand wait for one second or whatever but he's just you can tell that he goes back to the bench. Dewar's patting him on the back. It's like he is wearing it. And they just need way more from him.

I know it's very easy to say 11 games, no point. They need more from him, but they need more from him. What's tough for a guy like Domi is he has to know that this is his chance to solidify top six opportunity on the team and not producing with someone like mitch marner who's you know as good as he is he probably knows that that means you're probably going to play in the third line these opportunities aren't going to be there as much and that makes you squeeze it a little extra tight but if if willie and mitch do not have the puck then they're dead in the water.

Yeah. No, it's – so they – in the last five games, four of which are without Matthews, no five-on-five goals from the forwards, one total five-on-five goal. Why don't we listen to Craig Berube on the lack of five-on-five scoring? Going into this game, we were pretty happy with our game. I mean, I get it. We're – you know, it's a low-end games, five-on-five, where we're checking

hard. We had more offensive zone time than the other teams. Yeah, we want to score. We want to score more five-on-five for sure. But at the same time, we can't sabotage the game like we did right away in the game, giving them

three-on-one and they score. That's not going to work. I don't know that they had that much more puck possession than the other teams recently, but anyway. So, okay. I'm just, I don't know. I'm just getting a tone from you two today. The roof didn't cave in last night.

No, but that's what I'm feeling like you guys think no no um and i can recall before the season started i think you guys had them winning the atlantic oh yeah okay i said third and i said that i think the first 20 games might be tough with a new system and new philosophy. Probably I've seen signs. Calling that a win? No, no, I'm not. You can call it a win. I'm not making fun of you for doing it. I've gone to extremes because we had that start, right?

The Tampa game that we all talk about forever. We'll talk about that game for a long time. Yeah, so that's like. Because that was like a game changer. Like this team's in way better shape than we even thought and then they whatever the next few games

you want to call and then they pulled it back a little bit and started getting some momentum again and now we're pulled back again so not as great as we ever thought they were and they're not anywhere near as bad as some people may feel after that shellacking last night i do feel like you know the question of are they

different is like unimpeachable they are different like i i in my article today i list their defensive stats high danger chances last year they were 19th and what they gave up against this year they're fourth you know rebound chances 16th sixth this year rush up against. This year they're 4th. You know, rebound chances 16th, 6th this year. Rush chances 18th, this year 4th. Like, they're way better defensively. So those wouldn't be goalie numbers. No, those are not goalie numbers. That's chance numbers. And so, to me

it's like they have eliminated everything from the game. There is no chances, no rushes, nothing happens, which is a thrill to watch. But, to me, it leaves way more up to chance. And you say, we need a good save percentage and good shooting, you know, percentage and we'll win. And if we don't get those things, we'll lose.

And that to me is just like, it turns them into every other team. There's 10 teams like that. So the thing I ask, and I would love to know what their numbers were like that in the playoffs last year because you know that playoff series last year against the Bruins every game was 2-1 or 3-2 like I never was like oh my god the defense tonight

the defense is an issue so like it's nice to see these numbers and like I really do have belief that Berube and they've signed two legit NHL defensemen for the top four of their team with Alfredo Larson and Pv yep but like you know still comes down to it you're gonna need to score some goals you're gonna need to get the playoffs and you're gonna need somebody other than the core four to shoot one in a net in a game six when you need one yeah and i think that has to be

addressed eventually externally. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you think externally. Yeah. But last year in the playoffs, their defensive numbers were excellent. Yeah.

Outstanding. Excellent. Yeah. So everything except rush chances against. Yeah. They gave up a ton of those, but like, there's no free. You're mentioning like the external help.

There's not a ton of stuff coming here. We mentioned this with Gord yesterday, but now with, you know, I'm like, Pat Tretti, you guys are joking about him, but him being out for a while, probably a month, a little longer,

like, don't know. I don't underestimate taking a guy like that where he was in his game and hitting. No, no, for sure. But like, he's just a legit... What he did for John Tavares, too. Yeah, legit NHL body. And then, nothews so

whenever matthews comes back but like outside of those two guys where is the help coming from no there isn't there's not they gotta go steve's that's what i mean it's like steve's gonna come in here and start shooting him in the net for you yeah maybe he'll get one or two but that's you gotta go out you're talking about right? You're looking at a bigger. Yeah. The one thing, and I agree with you, like the blue line is better on a whole, but like I'm watching a very quick, fast Ottawa blue line led by Jake Sanderson. Oh, my God.

And I'm going. He's so good. The blue and white team, they don't have one of those. Yeah. Okay. And Morgan last night, tough game. Right? He needs to be the closest thing to a pacer on that blue line for the Leafs

as Jake Sanderson sets the pace when he's on the ice for the Ottawa Senators. Yeah. And, like, they looked slow. They looked quick. That blue line looked fast and quick, and the Leaf blue line could not keep up. Yeah, I don't worry about the Leafs.

I do worry about their overall speed today sammy was talking about larzeller before we got on the air and he says that'd be nice for the leafs right a third line center like that but to me that's more of what they have that's a big slower older guy who is like patch red yeah stylistically you'll see where others are um you know uh nielsen and the island brock nelson yeah brock nelson yeah uh devorak christian devorak i think he's in his last year of his deal in montreal we'll see where that is but there there's going to be guys like that around that might be a little younger too and uh there's there's going to be depth guys like that available you probably would have hoped that you could wait till like febru january or february but why why not well now you

might be forced to push a little harder because again you want separation in your division you don't want to be one of those mid teams aams, a couple of games above 500 or at 500 or a couple of games below 500. Yeah, I think it's real easy to have seen they win three or four in a row there against non-playoff teams and get excited, but the standards and expectations for the year are, okay, how's it shaping up for playoffs

and you should beat those teams. I like how you lumped Boston into the non-playoff teams there i'm a big fan of it i think they look what do you think yeah so the leafs are what 20 points right now yes like where are they if stolarz has not been one of the best goalies on the planet. But he's on the team. They signed. Right. Teams get good. Where are the Rangers without Sturgeon?

I'll tell you where. You get good goalie. Yeah, that's what I mean, though. In the toilet. But you, like, I hate this argument. Like, they went out there. They got a good goalie. They made a signing.

You're allowed to get good goal. I know. We're so used to not having it. And Sturgeon's allowed a bad night. Yes. And he had one. And the Rangers have no chance of winning when that happens so it's okay but goalies can go through bad stretches too

and if you don't want to be the team that just masks are you really as good as you think you are or you just a guy that just gets good goaltending because sam says you're part of the team and you have to stand on your head well you and you have to stand on your head? Well, you don't have to stand on your head, but the Leafs have not gotten good goaltending here for a few years. And now they are. And now they are.

But if Stolarz, with no prior history of being a guy that can sustain a high level and they continue to kind of be who they are right now, then this team's in a dogfight to make the playoffs maybe you know i'm looking at this roster and i'm saying so yeah i mean i he's been very good and i expect them to have at least averaged a good goaltending this year to me the problem is is not speed necessarily it's can craig Berube adjust the way he wants to do this? Can he say, all right, Mitch and Willie,

you guys need to handle the puck and go lateral. Hey, Bobby McMahon, you're not Stephen Lorenz. You have different standards than Stephen Lorenz. Or is he just going to say, they wanted it more than us.

Get it. Puck to the net with traffic, get rebounds. I think that's just his way of getting out of the thing as fast as he can. Yeah. I think he hates it. I think behind the scenes, he's trying to do what you're saying.

Yeah, I do. I don't think for one second he's saying, you know, whether you're Willie Nylander, Mitch Marner, or, or Nick Robertson, or Bobby McMahon, second he's saying you know whether you're willie neilander mitch marner or uh or nick robertson or

bobby mcmahon you get the red line you dump it in yeah you take robertson the reason why willie took made the turnover on the first goal is because he knows he's supposed to carry it in at times right and he yeah and i don't i don't think that's ever going to change but it just some nights it doesn't look good it does it does feel bleak though when you look at the bottom six and it's like if robertson mcmahon don't end up being contributors then boy who's gonna score connor doerr first game back we'll give him some runway before we judge him um but you know could not have been farther from the hockey puck last night. Who could have predicted that a line of Conor Dewar, Pontus Holmberg, and Nick Robertson wouldn't have worked?

Who could have seen that coming? But sometimes you're left with three pieces of the IKEA table and the table is built and you go, I don't know. That's your lineup. Here's the other one here. Because they're going into Washington. This will be their fifth back-to-back yeah leave the game last night sit at customs for 45 minutes land in buffalo another 45 minutes to 50 minutes from bwi to the hotel 2 33 a.m. Washington you mean? In Washington.

He's in Buffalo. No, no, no. BWI is I think Baltimore, Washington. I was like, do they got to take a connecting flight? What's going on? And like

they've had the hardest training camp and have asked to be hard in practice. Hardest team, Pat, Max, Pat, Tretty's ever been around. Four games in six days. Now, listen. But these are real things.

I can't believe this. It's not a built-in excuse. But thank you, JB. These are real. They physically affect you. Running a marathon is harder than running a car. I think. Are you making an excuse for the last night

they look like i got nothing left we were at that morning skate yesterday i was saying that and it was like willie went out there with hockinpah and myers and steves you know everyone else is like thanks i'm having waffles at home yeah coming in for this like and they've been asked to play a new style of play that's got austin hurt that got patch ready hurt and probably a few other ones with bumps and bruises i told you guys this we're gonna see guys hurt and it's coming and i think you know one of the things that we said i don't know a couple weeks ago was like 82 games in the style of Berube's choosing is it's just guys who can't do it. You can't play like it's the playoffs 82 times. You cannot.

Cannot, cannot, cannot, cannot, cannot. The three eggs they've laid this year have been pretty phenomenal ones. Like full nights off. Like just dress them up. Under Keefe, they used to like make a fake comeback they used to do that in the article remember come back they did they used to score like two or three they're down five to columbus in the third and they went to overtime like last night they were just like but like think about think about think about the ones like the columbus one

which was so bad the blues one at home then this one, those are three pretty phenomenal eggs early in the season. And when they look good, they look so good. So good. So knowing the Leafs that we know them now, they'll find a way to win tonight. I don't know. Yeah. But I feel like this is not the same old Leafs. Yeah, maybe you're right.

But I just, I wouldn't bet against it. I wouldn't bet against it. So I was broken by that little stretch where it was like, ah, they laid an egg, watch tonight how good they are, and then they laid another egg. And I was like, they didn't used to do that. They did the back-to-back eggs. It was Columbus into St. Louis at home.

Yes. I was like, yeah, they didn't used to bounce back pretty well. Big night for Joseph Wall tonight. Yeah. I think for Joseph Wall. Tonight? Yeah. I think so, yeah. First semi-hiccup, I guess, for Stolarz, but not really. He was still really good. Are we on the same page that for the Leafs to win tonight, he has to be first or second star?

Yep. Has to be. Yep. I really like the idea of how many bodies can you turn over in this lineup? Like, who's available that you can get in? Anyone. Yeah, Steve, Myers, Hawk, and Pa, like as many fresh bodies can you turn over in this lineup. Like, who's available that you can get in? Anyone. Yeah, Steve's, Myers, Hawk and Pod, like as many fresh bodies as you can.

And then, yeah, you're going to have to rely on the power play a little bit and get good goaltending. Because five on five, it's not there. Great goaltending. And if Joseph Wall plays really well tonight, still Anthony Stolarz Saturday night against Connor McDavid and the Oilers? Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God. Yes. Okay. Stolarz is night against Conor McDavid and the Oilers. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yes. Okay. I completely agree. Stolarz is the man. Agree wholeheartedly. For him to have that effort last night and keep it relatively sane in terms of what the score looked like at the end of it.

Yeah. This guy's it, man. He's it. Yeah. Okay. Just making sure. We are doing a sports talk radio show. I thought I should ask the question.

Okay. We should go. Summer's coming up. Let's take a quick break. When a sports talk radio show. I thought I should ask the question. Okay. We should go. Okay. Coming up. Let's take a quick break. When we return, Craig Simpson, former national hockey leaguer,

Stanley cup champion, hockey night in Canada will join us. And then at the top of the hour, Jason York, co-host of coming in hot, the sense podcast. Oh, he's just going to rub it into Sammy,

isn't he? For his sense, beating on the Leafs. I was impressed last night by the sense. Yeah. What can I say? All right. And also, that's the Leafs. I was impressed last night by the Sens. Yeah. What can I say? All right. And also Landon Ferro is going to join us.

Son of Ray. Doing a good job on Sportsnet as an analyst as well. So plenty more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Jays and NFL. The J.D. Bunkins Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ben Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. It's the Leaf Hour edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Okay, let's welcome him in. Former NHL or two-time Stanley Cup champion, Craig Simpson.

Hey, Simmer, how are you, pal? I'm great, guys. Hey, obviously not able to watch the show because I'm in Washington. I'm just wondering, I can just picture how sullen and dejected Sammy would be looking on that right side. You guys were kind of piling on, and he felt like he was just getting lower and lower. I said, the roof's not falling in, Sammy.

But there are some, maybe some red flags simmer in terms of some concerns. I know last week it was the power play, and that kind of got straightened out. But this five-on-five thing, scoring goals without a power play or a kind of got straightened out but this this five on five thing scoring goals uh without a power player or a shorthanded goal that seems to be an issue right now with this hockey club yeah there's no question there's a few leaks in the foundation that you gotta patch up and isn't that though the journey of every season it seems like you you have one issue that's there

and you mentioned it looked like the power play just had no confidence and nothing going well at all. And then they rhyme off, you know, what, four straight games with looking like the power play of old. So, you know, you go through the little blips in your season where all of a sudden things dry up and they expose some of the weaknesses you had. And listening to you guys i i think you're

right i mean the the exposure is something that has plagued them that that secondary scoring and that push from another body other than you know three guys that you rely upon or four guys that you rely upon and and that that is becoming a problem in this little stretch. And, you know, I listened to the fact you said Steve gets called up. I go, there's a situation where you can't just continue to throw out the lineup that's been out there. You've got absolutely nothing from Holmberg. You've got nothing from camp. You've got nothing from McMahon, nothing from Robertson in that stretch,

Max having his struggle. So, yeah, a guy who has nine goals and 12 points and 10 games in the minors, you have to send that message. And that's really important for the Marlies as well to know, hey, if I go down and have an impact there, I might get a chance and maybe I can come up and contribute. But there's no question that it's really been their demise early on here. There's no offensive push from anybody other than the top three guys yeah same or to

that point like last year they led the nhl in five on five goals and over the last four years combined they have led the nhl over in five on five goals but they haven't won and so has have those playoff failures have they taught them the right lessons here where now they're saying okay we don't want to be that team anymore we want to be a low event team but it almost feels like it's kind of taken away the thing that made them elite yeah and the low event is one okay you know can you play these tight games that maybe you have to protect the one goal lead? And can you play a disciplined and structured game to, to not be leaking, you know, at the most critical times, I go back to the games you're talking about in, in the playoff winner,

take all games, you know, the last six times that they've been in what's a game seven or the one year game five, they've been outscored 22-8. They've scored eight goals in those critical moments in six games. And that's the telltale sign. I agree with you. Last year, I don't know if it was Sammy who was talking about it, was defensively they were a much better team.

They had really good structure. They were solid in their own end. But it comes down to, again, another one-goal game that you can't get the goal. And I do think that's what happens when, you know, who's going to be your hero of the night? And often in those kind of big games, it's not always the Matthews or Marner or the top guys.

It's somebody like a Robertson, like a McMahon. You know, that's where you've got to find that offense that hasn't been happening. And this is just a little microcosm of that, I think, that look at the dry spells of those critical guys who are hopefully coming into this year, going to give you a little bit more balance. And part of it is, I think, learning to play a bit of a different system. I do think they're a little confused at times that, you know, the things that they did instinctively well, like curl back in the offensive zone, cycle up top, have puck control, you know, take it low, take it high, but don't throw it away quickly.

You kind of get some mixed messages that, you know, I want you to get it in. I want to get in on the forecheck. I want to get in on the body and start hitting their defense you know that's easy to say but if you're not really all that familiar in how to play that way it can take some time and i think you're seeing a few stumbles around that because of it simmer did you ever play for a coach that asked you to play in a way that you didn't naturally play? And if so, how did you handle that? Yeah, I think every coach tries to push you and challenge you. I kind of laugh at that because when, when I, you know,

went to Edmonton and get put on a line with two hall of famers, Mark Messier and Glenn Anderson, the joke for me was, Simmer I don't ever want to see you carrying the puck. And so, even my teammates would laugh about it because I learned and said, come back deep in our end.

You've got to win the battle along the boards when the D-band pinches down. And I get Mess the puck. I get Andy the puck on the other side. And then I can use my skills that I needed to come in late, find the lanes that are opening up because those guys create so much havoc. And I think I talked to you guys before about for Matthew and I, that's the way you got to learn how to play with those guys.

Deliver it to them and then be effective getting open and playing the game that you need to play to complement them. So I think in some ways, for me, it was like I got to learn how to play to fit best with those types of players. And it didn't take long, but you get reminded. And sometimes I'd come back to the bench and say, Simmer, that's not what we want you to do. You got pride as a player.

You want to be carrying the puck and dangling through, but that's not what was needed of me. So a little bit different messaging, obviously, with the way that Craig does it too. And I think that takes a little bit of getting used to as well. You know, are you a little bit intimidated? Are you thinking mad at you? Does that affect you at all?

I think you've got to just know the messaging is going to be in that way. Absorb it the best you can. And you've got to just know the messaging is going to be in that way absorb it the best you can and you've got to find a way to to contribute and find a way to get your game to a level that you can be relied upon to be in the lineup each and every night and i think there's a few guys that haven't quite got to that point yet we're talking to craig simpson who'll call the game out of washington tonight as the capitals uh go against the Toronto Maple Leafs on Sportsnet. And Simmer, we know that there's that team concept and the team philosophy, but there are different rules for different players, and we cannot expect Willie Nylander to simply dump a puck in

or Mitch Marner dump a puck in like we would see a David Kompf or Ryan Reeves. But, you know, when it doesn't go right, Simmer, and you've played for some tough coaches, and when we start getting the looks of a Craig Bruby giving it to a few guys, and we've seen it probably on a few occasions with Willie Nylander, how much can you get away with it, and how much do you have to be conscientious of not

overdoing it as a coach with a star player because as we don't know there there are different boundaries for each and every one of us even though we're all trying to play the same way yeah well and you know i think you mentioned it earlier, every star player, Mario, Wayne, Matt, you name it, Conor McDavid probably leads the league in turnovers, right? Like they've got the damn puck all the time and they've got all guys around them. So you've got to live a little bit with their creativity and the license to be creative and know that there's going to be the times where they're not all that great with the puck. And I do think that's an important balance for a coach when you do have those kind of skilled players.

And, you know, every coach has a shelf life because of that personality that can, you know, rub guys the wrong way or not. And, Craig, I think what you have to accept as a player is you're going to get a more direct and unfiltered message from them than maybe you would have from Sheldon or maybe from any coach you've ever had. So part of the challenge of that is to really understand that inherently going into the game and say, you can't be afraid to be a player out there.

If I'm William Nylander, I know what my skill set is, but I also have to accept that when I do have something that goes wrong or I'm not playing a solid game and I do turn the puck over, I have to be ready that I'm going to hear different messaging. And that might be easy for some guys. I kind of think Willie can handle that and understand that. But for other guys, as you've probably seen, they're on the bench, it can really rattle them. And that is really going to be Craig's challenge to say,

you know, what are the 21 individuals that I have to coach here? And some I might have to coddle a little bit. I'm not sure that's part of his, you know, way of coaching. But I think it's realistic when you have different personalities that handle those stressors differently. And, like, what do you say to a guy like Max Domi right now? It's realistic when you have different personalities that handle those stressors differently. And, like, what do you say to a guy like Max Domi right now? And I look, you guys talked about his body language going to the bench.

You know, there's nothing worse than when your confidence is down and it's like you don't want the puck. You almost want to be invisible sometimes. And it's a real physical thing that you have to overcome as a player. So, you know, maybe the coach has to take a little different path right now. You might've been tough on them earlier. Now you got to coddle them a little bit. Now you got to prop them up. And I think that's what will be interesting to watch and see.

You know, I think Craig does it in a different way that other coaches have, but I think that's the important thing that you have to find out what your players need from you as a coach. And, and, and the season has to settle in too, because you're not even a quarter of the season in here. And if, if, if Craig starts giving it to some of the guys this early and is consistent with it, Craig, we've, we've played with guys. It'll just shut right down. Right. Absolutely. And that, that is a worry, isn't it, Nick? You know, with it craig we've we played with guys it'll just shut right down right absolutely and that

that is a worry isn't it nick you know you some guys get browbeat and they just can't recover from it and i agree once when you snap as a coach too you know it makes the next time you slap snap a little bit less effective you know if there's accumulation effect of that of saying okay not again like geez and so i i think that's one thing craig mccavis always said and i took a lot of that when was coaching with him you know you go in there and tear the paint off you better feel that it was the right time and it was the moment that the guys needed it and maybe they needed a little bit of a snap to attention because the next time i do it they're going to go yeah right you know you just did that before and so it becomes less and less

of a of a changing message and i i do think there's a little bit of a worry of that especially in game on the bench that you know the cameras pick up every each and every time guys can get tired of that pretty quickly simmer the leafs are one of the best teams in the league when it comes to not allowing rushes against. They're also not getting any rushes for last year. They used to get quite a few. When you're calling these games, are you seeing something different in the way they break the puck out

or the way, you know, I guess it just feels like their coach has them a little more tightly tethered to their own net, and that's resulting in those two things. Yeah. You know, I've been trying to be conscious of that because as Nick was just saying, it's so early in the season, you're going,

you know, I'm not really seeing a whole lot of transformational difference in the way that they're playing, but I listened to the underlying, the staff. And I do think that defensively was definitely something that they wanted to key on and and you know be predictable be reliable it helps the d-men when they know exactly where everyone's going to be guys aren't pulling the zone yeah you know it's

not that offside winger taking off as soon as it looks like you're going to get control so in that regard yes I don't think you know it's a it's an overriding fundamental difference in their game but it is kind of shocking that you're not getting those odd man rushes and you're not getting that quick transition i i when i think of the least when they played really well because of the skill set that they have you know play good defensive be tight on the line, create an offensive or defensive zone turnover by your opponent, and bang, you're back the other way in transition, and you're catching them and you're getting odd man rushes. If anything, Justin, I don't think I've seen nearly as much of that,

and I'm not sure if that's structure or guys trying to be back a little further or wait and not, but that's something to watch. If that's an early trend, I'd be a little concerned because I do think it was really one of their good strengths to be a quick attack transition team, and that hasn't seemed to have been happening in the early going. Hey, Simmer, Ron McLean and the Hockey Night in Canada crew did a terrific job of giving your mom a tribute Saturday night.

Of course, we lost Marion Simpson, who died peacefully last week. And our condolences to you and Christine and Dave. And I know the Hockey Mom union is a little lighter today, unfortunately. Yeah, I appreciate that, Nick. You know, we all, seeing your mom, dementia is such a difficult thing to deal with. So in so many ways, you know, you feel heartfelt that her tough journey is over.

But man, I wouldn't have been able to do, my brother wouldn't have been able to get to where he did from an athletic standpoint without her support. And just like all of our moms, just love her dearly and we're going to miss her. And I really appreciate everybody's kind comments. It's been really soothing for the family. Appreciate it.

Have a great call tonight, Craig. Looking forward to it. Okay, guys. Take care. Thanks a lot, Simmer. That is Craig Simpson. I mean, what a, you know, matriarch of a great hockey family between Craig.

And yours, too, because I got to meet your mom. Yeah. Got to meet mom in the building. Yeah. Oh, you guys did get to meet? Yes. Okay, good, good, good. We had a full tour here.

I had my brother, sister-in-law, mom here. Your mom gave me a hug. It was the nicest thing ever. She's got to feel like I know you. She tunes in. Yeah. the nicest thing ever. She's got to feel like I know you. She tunes in. Just one thing on Ruby and that is that

you got to understand too, every time he says well I wasn't really here last year, right? But he got enough information to know that at times the feeling was Sheldon didn't hold the players accountable.

So without even knowing the whole story, he's coming a little bit locked and loaded. That bugs me. That bugs me. It does bother you? Yeah. It's like, well, the job is to know what's been the problem. You're the fix it guy. You need the diagnosis before you can start fixing.

Yeah. I could see that. But it is good cop, bad cop. Like Sheldon, too soft. Now Craig comes in and it's like, nope, we're up 4-1. I'm giving you crap. We're down 4-1. You're getting crap anyways.

And it's like he's just after 20 games, 15, 20 games, he's going to have to really settle in, as Craig said, and pick your spots. You know, if Craig's sitting here and he's on this mic hearing you say that, he would say, when he starts doing what I ask him, I'll stop yelling at him. You know, like just stop doing dumb stuff and it'd be that easy. How do you think we got Sammy to wear this spot today? Let's take time to break. I have not,

I have not said anything smart for four years and I'm still here. So I'm coachable though, boys. So what Ovi and Washington for real here. Ovi, uh, most goals against the Maple Leafs amongst active players.

Number one, Alex Ovechkin with 44 goals against the Toronto Maple Leafs. In how many games? The next closest is Sidney Crosby. I don't have how many games. Oh, they don't. But I didn't put that on the lineup. I just put how many he has. Sidney Crosby, 29. Evgeny Melkin, 24. Stephen Stamkos, 23. Claude Drew, 21. So basically,

if you were like a star during the 2010s, you lit up the Leafs. 44 talks. It's a lot. It's one franchise. That's a good, that's a really good season for someone. He's got that against the Leafs. Gotten younger on us. In what?

Three months? Four months? I don't know. A voice of God, a.k.a. Jake the Snake, says he has 44 goals in 59 games. Oh! That's not a bad run. 59 games. Not a bad run.

And you know who's been real good, too, is that Dylan Strom. Yep. And McMichael. You know what kind of pace Dylan Strom's on right now? 129 points. That's a R&H, 120-year type pace. Do not go away. We go national next on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.