Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Backs Against the Wall in Beantown

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee are all set for Game 5 as the Leafs take on the Bruins down 3-1 in the series. They start with the story of the day in Auston Matthews' status for tonight as it is reported that he's dealing with an injury on top of his illness. Then, teeing up the game - how the Leafs line up without Matthews, the energy Woll brings and how the Bruins will play knowing they blew a 3-1 lead last year. They are joined by Luke Fox (30:28), who shares the latest on Matthews, the Leafs' confusing and distracting management of injuries, vibes around the locker room and offseason decisions that another first-round exit could accelerate.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

here we go do or die not for the toronto maple east for our show and sammy in the next hour of the leaf edition it's just die for sammy he's just justin born as we just mentioned sammy mckee getting ready for a uh backs against against the wall mentality for the next hour derrick brandeo david sis boomba regular cast and crew hey i want to shout out kevin barker and jeff blair on the way out for bringing the energy so i'm fired up i want to play hockey right now since they made the switch switch now, we follow them, right? But every time we come in here, it's a treat to listen to Kevin Barker. Because he's got that.

What do they call that? That southern drawl. Drawl. Right? And all I hear is, go Leafs, go. Is that pretty good? That's not bad. No, no.

It's horrible good it was horrible but I loved his energy I'm ready to put him on a plane go down to Boston Kevin go talk to Austin is that where you want to start JB buddy there's nowhere else to start

oh my goodness it wasn't even me wow it doesn't matter who you talk to it's what you're talking about all right well listen wherever you're watching listening sports at 590 sports at 360 sports at plus from four to six that's where you can find us and when you can't catch us live download us it's just as good i promise you uh yeah and if you're listening during this hour i just want everyone to know and i go forward with a little bit of trepidation here. Good work.

Tomorrow, we will be on from 11 to 12 a.m. Blair and Barker are bumping us off again. 11 a.m. to 12 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. They are baseball. The Toronto Blue Jays are playing a getaway day against the Kansas City Royals. So, if you're listening right now. If the post. Yeah.

What do you call them? Postmortem? Yeah. We'll only be an hour for us tomorrow. Listen. No, no. We'll have a few weeks. Month and a half.

We'll have a few weeks. But yeah, tomorrow we're 11-12. Okay. Thanks for letting us know. No problem. Thanks for letting me know. I would have showed up at 1 or two o'clock tomorrow afternoon it's cool get your tea time ready for the afternoon away we go okay so what is the latest

with this lineup and just note uh we will have uh luke fox sportsnet writer sportsnet.ca he's down there he's gonna tell us exactly what he saw, what he's hearing going into the game tonight. We'll get our Matthews update from him, but we got a few minutes here to dissect it ourselves. And then at the top of the hour, we're going to welcome Steve Valliquette, who does analysis for the New York Rangers on MSG,

but is also one of our top analytical guys when it comes especially to goalies. So we will have a full breakdown of Samsonov to Joseph Wall, who we expect to play tonight. You're not going to want to miss Valley. Yeah. Stick around. Maybe ask him what the hell happened to Connor Hellebuck.

Lots of stuff to get into. Oh, yeah. Tons. Tons. Okay. So you want to start with a Sheldon Keefe update on Matthews, and then we go to you first, JB. Sure.

I'll go first. Let's let Sheldon do both of his updates. Sam, is that a reasonable place to start? Let's play the first update. Update number one. Obviously, he was on the ice today. They're here this morning, so he's working through things to try to make himself available to play.

You know, no determination at this time. Number two. I mean, I just look at the last couple of games, you know, the way that he's given us everything that he's got. So, you know, this time of year, everyone's, the players are going to do all that they can to get out there. And then the medical team is going to do all they can to make sure the players are available while also making sure that they're taken care of.

So that's what we're working through. And there's a further question. He was asked if there's something else. And he said, I've talked about this enough already. So. Well, that's an important detail um you know chris johnson had wrote an article and and one of his comments in there was he's also but what was the what was the main point of that article before you get into that well that he's unlikely to play

game five for the maple leafs is the title ah but he says battling battling an illness and nursing an undisclosed injury. Hmm. Which is a new twist. Sheldon, at the top of that first clip, did he say, I saw he was out there? Are they allergic to talking? To just going to talk to the guy? Anyway.

They're not allowed to. So he's good enough to play last game. He's good enough for an hour and a half of it. But he's not good enough to finish the last 40 minutes. 20. 20. I'm talking about actual time. Okay.

40 minutes. Gotcha. Sure. Okay, sitting on the bench for me is part of the 40 minutes. That you're with your team. But cannot finish that game. Sure. Okay, sitting on the bench for me is part of the 40 minutes that you're with your team but cannot finish that game, okay? Last 40 minutes of actual time. Throwing copies, whatever. Whatever, yeah.

Yeah. Yet, we're going to put him on a plane, right? We're going to have him in the hotel room, eat. We're going to wake up in the morning. We're going to take him to the rink. We're going to have him in the hotel room, eat. We're going to wake up in the morning. We're going to take him to the rink. We're going to have him put his equipment on, right? And he's going to go on the ice for eight minutes. And some sort of decision came at eight minutes.

Yeah, I think the obvious one here that we're all like he said no yeah i mean if we're reading the tea leaves here he was on the ice for eight minutes exactly read the tea leaves what did you learn what did you go through all of that effort to conclude in eight minutes well something it's got to be you know the eight minute part is like it's got to be injury then because if you don't get skating and get whatever if you're trying to deal with something respiratory or whatever you can't really know i'll say this now so i have stuck up for the process of we don't know they don't have to tell us they're doing their best to get them ready if it's an illness if it's just an illness and he's had three days to get ready

where did like injury come from i don't know this is the first i've seen of it is in this johnson article chris johnson okay never fair enough you know what he's an insider he thinks he may have something there but like up until now they can't throw out illness enough right it's It's illness. Yeah. Illness is not injury. Correct. I was working my way to saying something, which is this.

He better play. He's not playing. If he's just sick, though, and he's had three days, 72 hours from the last game, and he's sick, you got to play. You have to play. I completely agree. I just. You you got to play. You have to play. I completely agree. I just... You can't not play.

This whole thing stinks to me, okay? Stinks. This whole storyline, all of it. So again, just to understand, like Chris Johnson, reputable guy. Of course. For sure. We've worked with him.

But someone is telling him that there's also an injury. So it's either coming from somewhere close, the organization, the Matthews camp, but he's getting it from somewhere. Someone wants it out there. He doesn't make it up on his own. Someone is telling him. Of course. Plural S. Yes. So what is this now? it out there he doesn't make it up on his own someone is telling him with a plural plural s yes

so so what is this now that that illness isn't good enough anymore it's not good enough it's not good enough anymore so let's get it out there that he's also hurt so we can completely exonerate him he's not soft he's not quitter. Let's throw in an injury too. Unless he's hurt. Then why don't you be like everybody else? He's unavailable, right? Upper body injury day to day.

Is that that hard? Everybody else does it. I agree that the fact that this didn't come out until today. Yes. Games. Just playing games. Not a doctor. There's a whiff of something. Yeah, it stinks.

That I'm hearing now, injury. Yeah, it does feel a little bit like we don't want him to take the abuse for missing games due to illness. I also, Sheldon, said something about the doctors. Oh, here you go. It's always the doctor's call, he said. The doctors always make the call for the players and their best interests.

They don't put anybody in harm's way. That's a different world than I lived in. Well, I agree with you. Hi, everybody. Bobby. What is that? Dr. Nick. Oh.

We're having a serious conversation here, buddy. Give it a rest. I agree, you know, that it is a different environment. But to me, if you're Austin Matthews, you need to be able to overrule the doctor and say, thank you for your two cents. Again, like Sheldon cannot throw out the doctor, right? Don't come to me.

I'm just the coach. This is the doctor, right? Don't come to me. I'm just the coach. This is the doctor speaking now. Well, hey, hey, can we get a name with that doctor? Can we just, you know, can we, I don't know, maybe step up to the microphone and say, hey, hey, he's just a coach. He's just a general manager. And he's just the president. But I'm the doctor, okay?

And I'm saying he can't play. Wait, where is he? Well, I don't think he has to be present. We're not owed that. But if he is just sick, it sucks. If you're going to throw him out that much to make him a focal of the story i'm sorry one of the greatest goal scorers in this modern history disappears and you throw it on the doctor this is the whole

thing what i say it stinks it's not comparable to anything we've ever seen in the past i've played this game for a long time i've covered the game for a long time i've never seen anything more bizarre in my life than one of the best goal scores that we've seen just poof gone but this is a strict matter of perception for you from where you're sitting yeah you don't have answers and don't like it yeah and then there's everybody else doesn't have answers and wants answers i know but this is the same argument we've been having for three days. It's not an argument. It's just, it doesn't fly. It doesn't sell.

You're going to have your answer in five and a half hours. It's too late. Too late for what? They're gone. They're out. They're going to be out and gone whether you know he has tuberculosis or not or whatever he has. But it'll also make you feel like. You'd understand.

No, not you'd understand. Like, how am I going to feel moving forward? How about that, JB? And that's what we're going to know later if they're to lose. How do I feel about this? Okay. Like, if I'm a season ticket holder right now and I'm paying what I'm paying and then the last game you hear tickets went for $1,000.

You know why they went for $1,000? Because they're seeing one of the best goal scorers in modern day history. But it could be the Kulun and Hrvatsky team and it'd still be $1,000. And he's nowhere to be found. It's a little upsetting. Whatever. I don't, you know, the ticket sales, whatever we're talking about now, is way off track from the fact that they don't know what's an explanation.

It's not. But. It's not because it's different. They're telling us injury or sorry, illness. Now they went to injury. If he's just ill, I'm not okay with that.

And that's Neanderthal hockey talk for me. We're not, we're not, nobody's okay with it. Right. Nobody's okay with it. Right. And,

but there's a chance that when they tell us what it is, maybe my perception changes on that. But I myself have played with pneumonia. I have played extremely sick. I shouldn't have played probably for the good of my health, but I played. That story's out there from the moment the game was invented. Everybody's played sick.

I know. Which is why we can sit here as former players and say, if you're just sick, you got to play. Just put on the sweater. You got to be out there. Maybe it is something else. I don't know. I've just talked about it.

And that's the thing. It would be embarrassing to come in after the game. They're like, God, he's got, we're like, geez. It could be something very serious. I don't know. People said that, I mentioned it on Lee's talk after the game, that maybe the sports net showed him maybe twe tweaking like but like just mention that lower body lower body injury not playing should come up by now like not day of how many times did they go

back to the well over the last three days of him being like it's just not getting better he's just not feeling better he's just this weird illness that's a mystery illness and no one's ever heard of this thing just hear the unsolved mysteries music playing in the background there's just this weird illness that's a mystery illness and no one's ever heard of this thing just hear the unsolved mysteries music playing in the background there's just x files this whole first round series all the organization has done is let us come on the radio and speculate that's all it's been is speculating what's wrong with guys speculating what's wrong with them and it's just it's all we're supposed to do all my friends are everyone i talk to about the least is like well what's wrong with the? I'm the Leafs, Sam. That's an us problem, not a them problem.

Yeah, I know. But I just, you know, think you owe something to the fans. I think it's a little bit of ego that we think they should have to tell us because we're whatever, you know, we're Leafs fans or whatever. We are out there. You think it's okay that people go, like, they push gambling and they bet on thinking he's going to be there and he's he's not there and you have no explanation are free to make their decisions if they think he's going to

tell me what would happen in the nfl if mahomes now is going into a conference final and just doesn't show up let me stop you they don't know if matthews can play tonight they don't know sheldon keith probably doesn't know. He might know soon. He's going to have an afternoon nap, and they're going to say, can you go? I don't think they're sitting there with an answer and not telling us. I just think that it's unlike anything we've seen before.

It's very weird. It is. It's extremely weird. So is the Willie thing. If it just kind of fell into that same pattern that we've seen over the years. Listen, a guy

limps off or whatever and now it's like you want to search for the answer. Listen, no. That's not the way it works. There's no saying this is how it works because we've never seen it before. Very weird.

Yeah. So, game five, right? Start with the rest of the hockey, yeah. Okay. That's it. We're just beating a... But I just, I think... Well, it's the conversation everyone's having.

We have to have it. It's a dead horse that has to be... Give it one last thump. Yeah. The old six-hunter. You have to. I mean, come on. All right.

Where do you want to start? I just really hope he's, you know, think about what's on the line tonight. He's got to be. Set the stage. No, it's just, he has to be, you have to give the benefit of the doubt that he is really not well or really injured

for him to miss a game where potentially his head coach, well, not potentially, head coach's job is on the line. You know, teammates may be gone. Upstairs, downstairs, back room, everywhere. There is so much on the line tonight. And for him to not play, he must be something wrong. Very wrong. The most shocking thing of all will be they come out and go,

he's had a bad flu. He's just really not great. I'm sorry, what? They can't do that. And they can't do that. And part of Kipper's point, they're starting the narrative where it's like, it's not just him being, I don't know. Anyways, let's talk about the hockey.

So, enchanted win tonight, fellas. What do you got? Yay. Paint me a Leafs pitcher that things are good. Okay, so what does it look like without Matthews? You got Marner playing with Domi. Domi back in the middle. They seem to have some good energy in the third period.

They got a big goal. They had some good momentum. Like, again, I know we're going to beat it up again, but the bad penalties and they had momentum and the score was 3-1. Last time I checked, the Vancouver Canucks were down 3-1. That score was not... The game wasn't buried when Marner scored.

And then Nylander lassoes. That was such a stupid penalty. Who do you lasso? Was it DeBrusque? It doesn't matter. He lassoed someone. And just killed it. Killed the momentum.

Edmondson had two good chances to make it a 3-2 game in that third period. He beat down one, almost went five hole. So I know you're right. So, you know, can that line find some of that magic that they had in the third period yes yes is the answer i mean they absolutely can win a hockey game here and you obviously start with one joe wool came in last year against the florida panthers and was a 941 save percentage he got them their only win in his first game back uh in the lineup you know he it's not he and i'm glad that he got

in last game to play a period of hockey feel the puck feel the energy and the pace and all that a little bit so sure he goes in and plays well you know marner looked like he had some jump in the third period of those guys to get a couple maybe the power play scores a goal it's not past impossible them getting a win okay let's go to Sheldon Keefe. Derek, clip four on Joseph Wall staying ready. Just that he's stayed with his regular routines, and he's a very regimented guy. He's very detailed in how he handles himself off the ice,

takes care of himself, maximizes his practice reps. I think he's been outstanding in our practices that we've had here since preparing for the playoffs and coming through. I think he's really looked at those as his gains. And to me, he has been really, really good there. So he's ready for an opportunity to come in. What did he say? He's looked at it as his games? Yeah. What, his practice? Yeah.

He's looked at it as his games. That's stupid. That's something to say. I think I'm not overly worried about Joseph Wall of all things tonight. Uh, I think he's capable of having a big game yeah i don't i'm not sure if it's if there's a good chance of it happening oh when's the last time

he lost just just based on three weeks ago the the lack of of prep coming into this this is just in all honesty it is a it's a hope or pass you're not really looking but you're just hoping for the best that's all it is can you shoot one in the net i mean he can be as good as they want but if the least aren't going to get between the hash marks they're not going to have much of a chance to win the game so he can be great and like i said you guys yesterday i felt very dumb after watching him play in the third period like oh yeah he's better yeah where we had these all these conversations and convinced ourselves samsonov was the guy but anyways he could be fine you know what's hard for the leafs is that when you when you've given belief to the other team like the boston bruins probably don't feel like they need to take a ton

of chances right like they just kind of hank and comfortably know that if they stay within their system keep everyone to the outside it'll come for them that they'll get some looks yeah i i don't think it's unreasonable to suggest you might see a low scoring game tonight i don't think boston's gonna be pushing things offensively and they're very good defensive but the leafs will push with the half they gotta open it up exactly And to your point, then Boston doesn't need to. They just wait for the Leafs to make their mistakes. They're bad. I don't know what it was.

Two minutes in, three minutes in, they had a 140-foot two-on-one last game. When teams have blown three-to-one leads, you look at, so the Leafs did it to Montreal, whatever, three years ago. Montreal won game five and game six in overtime those are both overtime wins when uh Florida came back on Boston last year two of their three wins were overtime wins I think game five and game seven you know like they're coming back from three one isn't necessarily you become the better team and just dominate the other team it's you gotta eat a couple out I and these are close close games as is um do you want to go to

keep on blowing three one leads first let's let's or reeves let's do ryan reeves do you have ryan reeves i do have ryan reeves okay ryan reeves on potentially coming back well i mean uh yeah you got to get excited for these ones you gotta um you know i think this group knows that there's always uh you know until the series is over it's not over um you know this team think this group knows that there's always, you know, until the series is over, it's not over. You know, this team gave up a lead last year, an exact same, you know, 3-1 lead last year. So, you know, sports is a crazy thing. I think we've all seen some crazy comebacks in our lives. And, you know, I've been part of a few.

So, you know, I think we're just excited to, you know, to start it up today. Oh, he's got the Bruins right where he wants them. Could you just get the puck out? I'm not sure I would have dug up the, they blew up a 3-1 lead last year. I would have probably not touched that as a guy looking at

being out in five games, but I did like his comments that you know sports crazy and crazy things happen and i i mean i'm not far off on his thinking that i have it's it's my it's less of the belief in the toronto maple leafs than it is in sport right just in sport general right? Just in sport general. What a glowing hope. There's randomness in this, guys. Hang on to the randomness. Go for a ride.

Just history of sports. We'll say, you're not wrong, Ryan, but we just, it has less to do with your team right now. Yeah. I will say that I am incredibly, like, you know, I've, like I've talked about a million times. A lot of people talking to me with the Leafs

and, you know, I'm seeing it on Twitter. I'm seeing it from my friends. I'm seeing it from certain people. You know lot of people talking to me with the Leafs. And, you know, I'm seeing it on Twitter. I'm seeing it from my friends. I'm seeing it from certain people. You know, they're like, oh, you love my Leafs. We gotta have the passion. Like I talked about how I woke up yesterday feeling relieved. I woke up feeling envious of that. Like how after all of these years,

after everything you've seen, do you dig back into the well? The last feeling i have is hope right now there is no hope for me have you read any articles about people who get scammed yes you know they can't believe that they're the ones silly enough to get caught up and they just keep giving money to the scammer because they're just like they're like well i don't know this time it'll be different so what you're saying is a Leafs are like a Russian prince here? Like, what's happening? No, I'm saying it's a total mindset where you're like, no, no, no, I'm not wrong.

This will come around eventually. I'm not the one to get fooled. I just can't believe there's still people that are like, my Leafs will get it? I'm like, oh, my God. How do you feel? The most consensus that I hear from people about the Leafs are that there hasn't been enough pain extracted from this series

so that they'll win a couple and then pull the rug out when you get your hopes back up for game seven. So there are true Leafs understanders out there who know how bad it can get. I mean, it would be. I gotta think, though, like

the blown 3-1 lead to the Florida Panthers last year is so fresh for them right now, which sucks. Cause that's going to make them buckle down. That's sitting there going, we we've been down this path before where we, we let a team off the hook in a game five.

And you know, is Brad Marchand right now in a position where, you know, he's not in every second of that morning skate or by the time he gets to the rink this afternoon, that that isn't on the top of his mind right now telling his teammates? I think there's also a big difference between this version of the Toronto Maple Leafs and last year's Florida Panthers.

I would hazard a difference between them in terms of gumption. Is that fair to say? I feel like they're very different teams. Very different teams. I mean, they were, once upon a time, a few weeks ago, heading

towards that side of the Florida. It wasn't that long, guys. We were talking about this team having some gumption and some grit and some in-your-face and McCabe and Bertuzzi and Domi. It wasn't a million years ago. When Willie's playing well and Matthews is healthy and the whole thing, what? I'm loving it.

You guys are helping me. I like it. Keep going. No, what's your point? What's funny? That you guys are doing a masterful job of giving people hope. And the one guy who should be hopeful and the one guy that should be an idiot is like no hope.

Saying they were good a month ago is not giving anyone hope. That has nothing to do with Matthews not present and Willie looking like him. A month ago, they were the best team in the NHL for 34 hockey games. I know. But then the playoffs started. Right. And they returned to their true form. His point isn't about right now.

His point is that they were good a month ago. Yeah, I know. But, I mean, that was a month ago. You know, there has to be someone in that Leaf dressing room going, like, we don't even have to win this series. Yeah. But we can't die on the vine tonight. Right.

Right? We can't go out with a whimper. There is a difference between losing tonight and losing game seven for us even walking around town this summer. Yeah. No? No, but you know what? A little bit.

You're right. Yes, 100%. Sammy, what a little bit you're right yes a hundred percent just a little bit if they came in and just showed some juice tonight or game six and lost in game seven there has to be a little of gained respect just a tad no zero no different go big or go home literally no difference for me were they really supposed to beat the boston bruins here definitively didn't both you guys pick them we did pick them in seven i had it as a pick them series yeah and i had them in seven and yeah maybe a little wishful thinking for the real kiprin board show i would say most people did not pick them on the inside of that sweater it says honor pride

courage we said as we hung that up there but pride being one of them was a it was a pick-em series for me for sure i don't think many people dispute that out there like we had we had right better goaltending out of boston as long as sammy could hold them in we had boston better with mcavoy and lindholm but we had the leafs deeper up front with the offense for and and to me kim the difference maker was your 69 goal goal scorer who one of the saddest you know one of the saddest parts of the failures of the leafs in the past has been the big moments the way they've shown up, right? Game 7, Montreal wins those two OT games. Game 7, they just were awful. They rolled over, I think they lost

4-0? No, it wasn't that bad. It wasn't good, whatever it was. Game 7 against Boston, a couple years ago, they lost 5-1. Like, they have just not shown up in these all-or-nothing games. If we see that again tonight tonight i think everything that people have

said about the leafs outside of this show that can't win with this group know this know that they don't have what it takes all the different things you just you can't argue with anything you just have to blow it up they're right they're right so to me if it's a push and a game and some, you know, like a couple of wins, that to me is a totally different story. But losing in seven games is no, to the Boston Bruins for the fourth straight playoff series. It's not a moral victory, but it's not embarrassing. The same way it would be. It would show some character.

Sure. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. I'll give you that. A hundred percent. I'll give you that. They'll have a bit of.

Great. Thanks. Yeah. No, I know you don't care, and I don't care about it either, but it is different. We're scraping the bottom of the barrel right now. And there's nothing there on the bottom of the barrel for me.

In my mind, and I think a lot of Leaf fans' minds, five, six, seven, doesn't matter, boom. I think when making character assessments, if you're going to trade someone based on moral judgments, I think you could take that context. Because it mattered to you that they lost in five against Florida

and not seven. Yeah, it did, I guess. I don't know. It seems like part of the deal to me. Anyway, that's a long way off. That's two Leaf wins away. But it would be kind of Leaf-like to win tonight. Oh, I have money on it.

Return home and break the hearts of all the fans. I was on the road. Everyone count them out. Very leaf-like to win tonight. What's the line on that game tonight? They got to be huge dogs. You would think so. We'll find out in game time.

We will find that out. Okay, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to the rink. Luke Fox, writer for Sportsnet.ca, is in the building. He'll give us the vibe on Matthews and the Leafs' chances to extend. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the Leafs, Jays, Raptors, and the NFL. The J.D. Bunkins Podcast.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kipper, it's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, teeing up game five between the Toronto Maple leafs and the boston brunes let's bring in head writer sportsnet.ca luke fox luke how are you pal i'm doing okay all right give it give it give it to us straight here. Like, what the heck happened this morning? Was it seven minutes, eight minutes, ten minutes of Austin Matthews? What did you see this morning? Okay, well, it was definitely less than ten.

I'd ballpark it around five. I didn't have a stopwatch or anything, but it was very light, light work. So he played catch a little bit with Manny Malhotra. He stood in front of the net, tipped a few pucks that Malhotra shot. And then he, after I'd say about five minutes, he got his water bottle and skated off well before the rest of the guys really got going. There was no exertion of any kind.

It's not like he was doing cuts in the corner or really pushing himself by any means. He seemed to be away from the pack. So you read into that what you want. It was an optional skate. He normally, if he's playing, he does not skate on game mornings. He takes the option. Now, the game he did play, he did do that to test it out so was he testing it out and

saying okay that's good enough or was he thinking even just this little bit of light work is too much for me and i need to get off the ice that's up for interpretation afterwards you know i asked sheldon because these rumors started last night that we started hearing that this was something beyond just an illness and that would make a lot of sense what kind of illness keeps a guy down for eight days especially when the first thing i heard was was food poisoning it's it you know raises a lot of curiosity so there was a suggestion um that there's something more there and i asked sheldon you know is is it an illness or is there something beyond that and basically he refused to answer and a non-answer i'm interpreting as there's got to be

something more there uh the latest i'm hearing is it's probably a 90 chance he doesn't play but hey uh we've all seen hockey players push through things so all eyes will be on warm-up do you want to stay on the injury front? Yeah. No, I'm embarrassed to ask this question, but, like, did he shoot pucks? He didn't. It wasn't ripped. I didn't see him rip any pucks.

No. Okay. I'm trying to, like, okay, wrist? I'm trying to run through the list here. Oh, I don't know. Okay, no, no. We could speculate on that. Oh, yeah, that's what we're doing. No, no, we are.

That's what we do. That's what we do. That's what we do. You're not on a news show. No, I know, but I just don't know if watching him do a very little sliver of light work in the morning is going to tell you what kind of injury. So, did he exert himself in any way? Did he exert himself in any way? Did he skate hard? Did he turn anything up around 60, 70%?

Because I got a text during the break that suggested a high ankle sprain. Oh, my goodness. And I heard something totally different. So who knows? Okay, that's what we're doing. We're not reporting. We're speculating. There was no exertion.

No, he didn't do any hard cuts or hard skating. All right. And now is that just people just floating stuff out? I mean, I got it from somebody that is around the game and knows people. Well, keep an eye. Don't throw this out there. Don't run with that.

To me, Luke, it's quite interesting that they push the narrative illness, illness, illness and now there's talks and rumblings of an injury. Isn't it strange for you? 100%. The whole thing's weird. And it started

with Willie. The way they've handled these mystery ailments is really confusing. And I think it's really kind of distracted from what's going on in the series on the ice. And I think it's distracted the fan base. Like, you know,

I play Shinny. I take my son to his hockey games and it's all anyone's talking about is he playing first it was willie is he playing now it's austin is he playing and it's it's become a distraction from the fact they're getting sorely outplayed in basically every facet of this series well and let's talk a little bit more about the tone around the leaf saturday night was perhaps the most disheartening Leafs loss of the Marner-Matthews era. Just the most...

I understand losing game sevens to teams, including Montreal, was heartbreaking. That was like, you know, it's 2-1 in the series. It just really felt like a series they would have a chance to win, and there was nothing. It was just the worst. I've seen that team look in a long time. Is the mood down?

Outside of the team, it feels like the series is already over. Anyone you talk to, does it feel like that around the Leafs now? Yeah, it was downbeat. Oh. And I've been around teams that have been down in series, and you feel like, oh, maybe they have something left. And hey, they haven't played the games yet. You know, Ryan Reeves was saying today, like sports are a crazy thing.

We've all seen crazy comebacks. So, you know, there is a chance. But based on the mood, I don't like it. You know, the energy's low. The spirit's low. The voices are quiet. Sheldon, you know, seems like he's, it's almost like he's resigned to how this thing is going to end. Uh, there's very, there seems to be little fight in the dog and maybe,

maybe there is behind closed doors in their meetings and they're, they're just want to keep things low key when the reporters around, but, you know, I've been around a lot of playoff teams when they're practicing, and even when they're down, some of them, there's noise. Remember when Ryan Reeves was brought in because this was a quiet team? This is a quiet team right now, and that would concern me.

We're talking to Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. What do you get out of Mitch Marner? You know, you look at the last few days, and he's been the number one whipping boy here you know from the cover of the toronto sun of the invisible face right down to every rant you hear on on social media how do you find his demeanor as late as today i i look at mitch marner right now and i think like this is a beaten guy right like he's got everything to gain and

nothing to lose tonight i i i think he's if he goes in with an attitude like that maybe there's a chance to make this thing close tonight with him yeah he oh he needs to have a huge game especially if austin is either out or at something less than 100%, which is what he is. Mitch Marner needs to be a star. Joseph Wohl needs to be a star. That's pretty much it. I do feel like listening to the public discourse, it's gone a little bit too heavy on Mitch.

The blame should be shared a little bit. And I would include Brendan Shanahan in that, in the whole plan, the whole way that the group is constructed. I think with Tavares, you know, he hasn't been a star at all five on five. But I think people are just kind of resigned that his best days are behind him. Whereas Mitch is in his prime. Austin gave you one good game and he's battling some sort of ailment or multiple ailments. Nylander wasn't available.

So he's kind of avoided some of the criticism because he just hasn't played. So Mitch has borne the brunt of it. But I agree with the people that say, hey, you make 11 sheets. You can't just be fine defensively, score a goal in a game that was essentially all over. You need to have your fingerprints all over a playoff game in this series. And we're running out of time

for him to do that. And I think the other thing is the contract situation. He needs a new contract, not next year, but the following one. So I think that is garnering a lot of attention because people are fed up with the construction of this team. So who has to move?

Well, the other two guys just got paid in Nylander and Tavares so that's probably another reason why a lot of focus on Mitch as for his demeanor we haven't seen him since the uh he did post game after the last game he wasn't available after practice and he was nowhere to be seen this morning so he's laying low and hopefully he just lets his uh uh play on the ice do all the talking for him tonight help us set the stage a little bit about the stakes for tonight. You know, you had mentioned Brendan Shanahan, that same newspaper had a cover mentioning Shanahan today

in a negative light. Sheldon Keefe seems like a guy whose name's of interest. I'm concerned about, you know, the Shanahan thing personally because the Leafs have been a very good and well-run organization for years now, and I think you can take that for granted, and I think fans probably do. What are your thoughts? How much is on the table in terms of the high-powered jobs with the Leafs?

I think a lot should be on the table. I would love to know what Keith Pelley's thinking. If he's thinking, hey, I want to take a year to really see how this thing works behind the scenes before I make any big decisions, or if he hears what the fan base is telling him, what the players are telling him so far by their play, and thinking, I need to make drastic changes.

I think everyone knows, even though Sheldon Keefe hasn't coached a game under his new deal, that if they lose this series, it's hard to envision a world where he's back. But I think the changes should go deeper, whether that's looking at the core players and those guys showing up to camp again and looking around the dressing room with the same faces. They've lost what could be eight of nine playoff series together.

At some point, I know you want to bet on talent, but at some point, I think there's enough evidence mounting here that some drastic changes need to be made. I think it really does start at the top with Pelly. It is really incredible what potentially tonight could mean for so many people and historically for this franchise. I agree with you, Nick. Like, this is huge.

And it goes far beyond, you know, usually when we're in this situation, we're talking about like the UFAs, like, oh, you know, what does this mean for Max Domi or Bertuzzi or Samsonov? No, no, no. This goes way higher, way higher. It's funny, like so many

cultures in sports keep saying this is results-oriented business. Results. We need results. And that's not really been Shanahan's message. His message has been we believe in these guys. We're going to keep rolling it back. I think about when Dubas left

and the first reports we heard were Shanahan letting all the guys players know hey don't worry you guys are safe you guys are safe we're just changing the GM but you guys are good and I and you know I wrote about the culture this week and and I've been thinking about that about how just because you lose doesn't mean your your job's in jeopardy you're comfortable the coach can't get it done in the playoffs. That's okay. We'll give them an extension. And these things just keep mounting. And I think it's gotten to the point

where people want to see change. For sure. I think you have a tough time selling it to the fans another time. You know, and I think that is a pretty important message. You know, heading into tonight then, the last thing to touch on, just the decor.

Morgan Rielly maybe not been his best version. It looks like Timothy Lilligren's going to go back in. Go ahead. Are you going to be meaner than that? No, no. Morgan Rielly, just not his best. But he's been brutal like the rest of them. Okay.

Well, so many, like, this is supposed to be an offensive team, but so little of their offense comes from the back end you know you're watching the colorado series you see kail mccarr you're watching what the nashville predators did and you see roman yosi and yeah morgan riley is not quite at their level but very little is being generated with clean breakouts that they come flying through the neutral zone like the offense can start from the defense. And they got a lot of guys that are off the glass and out. So that puts a lot of pressure on Morgan Riley to drive it.

And I would, you know, I thought he's been fabulous in playoffs past. In that Tampa series, he might have been their MVP. He hasn't, like we're talking about Mitch, Morgan Riley hasn't had a signature game either, and he's paid to do so. There's pressure on him for sure. But as for the lineup, Lilligreen is 100% back in, Brody's back out.

Wow. And we were questioning that blue line as is with a good Brody, we were questioning this blue line, but no one saw the drop-off with Brody. To questioning this blue line but no one saw the drop off with Brody not like to be at this point where you you had him out you tried him back in now he's back out in the most critical time of the year yeah I mean for him to ever play another game as a Leaf would be shocking

I don't know if I mean maybe in his career I don't know but I can mean, maybe in his career, I don't know. But it's just hard to imagine this big of a drop-off for this guy this season. Yeah, and just compare it to last year. He was like the model of consistency. He's lost confidence. It's really sad to see because he's the second highest paid guy next to Riley. Logged so many minutes on the penalty kill. And the penalty kills been, been really hurting them all season long. And especially in this series.

And we've reached a point where the coaching staff doesn't even trust him enough to play him when that's supposed to be one of his specialties. And that's one of the team's weaknesses. I feel for the guy. I mean, it's got, it's gotta be tough. You know, the guy. I mean, it's got to be tough. You know, the sport you love, you're in a contract year,

you're trying to make a difference, and he just doesn't have it. And I think it snowballed him with lost confidence, get caught on the ice for some bad goals against, and get scratched, get back in. You put internal pressure on yourself, like, hey, I need to do something in this game or I might be scratched again. And then if you don't, it just kind of builds. And it is too bad.

It is too bad because he was a really reliable Leaf for a long time there. All right, Luke, enjoy yourself. And if there's one piece of advice I can give you from past experience, if the Leafs happen to go up 4-1, don't file your report with about 10 minutes to go. Give me a break. What? No, no.

If Boston goes up 4-1, don't file your report. How's that? Is that better? That's okay. Thanks, Lou. Appreciate it. Take care, guys. Buddy, that's a crazy building for Leaf fans. Oh, yeah.

You're just going down to the ground and grabbing that low-hanging fruit. I'm just saying. Oh, my. I'm going back to Ryan Reeves' hey, it's sport. Crazy things can happen. You know, I do want to go back to the point of our local New York Post with a headline about Brandon Shanahan today, perhaps losing his job if they lose.

The Cannaplan, I think they called it. Canna-Shan, I think. Canna-Shan. Canna-Shan. Yeah. I mean, it's very good. I worry about that. Aim for creativity.

Absolutely. Yeah, I worry about what it would look like under someone else, given, you know, this has been a good run. Leafs hockey, 100-plus points for a lot of years. And, you know, the plan was to rebuild, tear it down. You did it just like you said you were going to do it. I know it hasn't yielded results.

I know that. You got to get out more than one round in 10 years. And I love the idea of trying to sell process over results it's a results business yeah it is yeah and so he hasn't got results and i understand why he's again this is this is in the hands of a new ceo named keith pelly and it's really to to luke's point is how quickly can you come in how what's he been on the job a A month? Six weeks? Yeah, but everyone knows what's going on with the Leafs, man. There's no... Everyone knows.

Like I said yesterday, I'll say it again. If he's like, we're taking a long view of this, a patient approach, I'm like, nope, done. Out. He can't have it. You do, but you've got to come in here sweeping. You do, but he's got only six weeks of being on the inside looking out. The rest of the time, he was no different than us on the outside looking in.

And I'm not here to suggest that he should fire Brendan or he shouldn't, but I'm saying that to Luke's point of view, some guys, they don't like to come in and make those type of decisions that fast because all it does is put them on the clock that much faster too. Keith Belly. Like, you know, Keith Belly's fresh and new. He ain't going anywhere. He's not going anywhere next year or the year after.

But you get into year four, year five, and the clock starts with your decision that you made a month into it. Some guys like to stretch it out a lot longer. Well, I guess it depends what you're prioritizing. If it's, you know, keeping your job, which most people, that's their sole purpose. We've seen it a lot. Truly, most people like in...

How can I keep this job the longest? That's the dirty secret about like being a GM in the NHL. Most guys goal... Job preservation. Yeah, everyone's like, oh, it's the cup. It's like, well, it's keeping the job and then it's winning the cup. I think, you know...

That helps you keep it. The only way that... So, Keith Pelley comes in and he's like, oh, it's the cup. It's like, well, it's keeping the job, and then it's winning the cup. I think, you know, the only way that, so Keith Pelley comes in and he's like, we're not going to keep, I've got to get my blinders on, it scared me. We're not going to keep Shanahan. I mean, we're going to keep him around or whatever, but it's like, well, your little plan here, the four guys, we might be changing that,

or you might not be around kind of thing, right? One thing I'll say about that is that you're not making the decision based on what you've also been witnessing the last little while that you can't win with the core four. You're also basing it on the fact that the guy's contract's running out and to Luke's point, he needs a is that right you're not giving it to him after this season what's that his contract running out after this season marners oh marners and and brendan chanahan needs a new contract soon too okay so those things come into play too right

it's like yeah we're not gonna we're not gonna go down that path anymore so the core four it was running out it was running out of time too so no nothing on the line tonight high stakes high drama oh i can't wait till it gets tonight it's gonna be a fascinating hockey game boys you know what the next hour is gonna be fascinating we got steve aliquette to join us to break down all the goaltenders, including Joseph Wall, Samsonov, Swayman, Hellebuck, Jones, and also

coaches. The carousel going around and what's going on with Dubas and Mike Sullivan. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. News and notes. Back to our roots, baby. More with real K and Mike Sullivan. Oh, yeah. Oh, we got news and notes.

Back to our roots, baby. More with real Kippenborn after these words.