Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Bad Bounces at the Bank

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' 5-2 loss to the Rangers last night, Martin Jones' bad puck luck, reasons to be optimistic despite the result, Bertuzzi's game running out of 'snot,' Domi's inconsistency and the team's inability to draw penalties. Later, Sportsnet's Luke Fox (32:45) joins the show to share some insight into Samsonov's mental state, how the Leafs should employ the netminding tandem before the holiday break and the pressure on Sheldon Keefe.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we are the real kipper and born show wherever you're watching wherever you're listening sports at 590 sports at 360 sports at plus from four to six we're glad you're aboard when you can't catch us live download us on any of your favorite podcasts. Yes. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Jen Rolnick. Stretching out the week here. What do you mean? Right into the Christmas break.

Yeah. I got to be honest with you guys. Let's have it. We started our show this season. Should have taken the week off? No, no. I'm good with working today and tomorrow. Okay.

We started off late this year. The shows. Yeah. I think it was like a week before puck drop. The Jays were competitive. Yeah. Yes. And I was itching to get going.

Yeah. And? And now I can't wait to get rid of you. Both. I really need a break. You know what? You're going to go spend 10 days with your family and you'll be itching to get back.

Scram, beat it. And then I'm going to give them the scram, beat it. I need my boys back. You'll be ready to get back. Yep. All right. You know, absence makes the heart grow fonder, K it. I need my boys back. You'll be ready to get back. Yep. All right. Into the dog day. You know, absence makes the heart grow fonder, Kippy.

Yes. You know, we've spent a lot of time together since October. Every day for three to four hours a day. Yeah. And I will say, not to get it too inside baseball here, but I'd say we have a remarkably good relationship. I think so, too. For how much time we spend together.

Don't you think, Kip? I'll reserve my judgment until like April. March, April. Can you give me time to answer that? The secret to a good relationship is to almost never talk. Yes. It's true. Until it works.

I love you guys. Yeah. Be a good listener. Be a good listener. Was last night's game between the Leafs and New York a little bit of the, okay, I don't know what to make of it really, because I've seen the Leafs play a lot worse and win than what we saw last night.

They seem to have some decent scoring chances in your mind was the game up for grabs in the latter part of of of the game yeah i think some days i come in here and i go that's a great hockey game last night and you go eh because it wasn't played great you know like there was a lot of like errors and i and i'm talking about it was fun it was done back and forth whatever last night i think was a well-played game. It wasn't as thrilling, as exciting, but, like, the Leafs had trouble getting inside against a Rangers team that was pretty well-structured.

Leafs were pretty good. I mean, we'll get to Sheldon Keefe, but at some point, he basically said as much, where he's like, sometimes over 82 games, you play pretty well and you don't win. That's kind of how it goes, and that's kind of my review of last night. I actually think I would come out of that game

feeling probably better about the Leafs than i have in a little while i know that's kind of crazy to say considering how many points they've gotten over the last stretch of games but i think that team the rangers are one of the class of the east right like i think we'd all agree that i know maybe the lead the nhl in points percentage like they're a really good team this year yeah and i thought that looked like two really evenly matched teams and with the way we started talking about this team in October and November we were very concerned that they weren't going to get to this point right where they weren't going to be playing close games with really good teams and I come away from that game feeling better about them than I should yeah Yeah, looking at scoring chances, I mean, they were right there 20 to

21 for the Rangers, so right there. Maybe just blame the dads last week for the dancing and the Is that your dance? The hip bumping. Oh, you got the ring on, Kipper. You got a function tonight? You got a little something.

A little something special going on tonight. When you got the sport coat and the ring on i'm like where is he going where is he going tonight for you to figure out oh i love it figure out okay let's go to sheldon keep for our first kippers clipper of the show on his overview of the game we were slow in the first period both teams were a little slow and cautious in the first. I thought we adjusted fine to the game, though, in the second and third. I mean, when three goals are going off of us and in the net bouncing around and you don't get any power plays in the game,

you're probably not winning the game. So, you know, these things happen over the course of 82, but I had no issues with that game. It's such a dismissive, funny review of the game. It's like, I got no issues. No problem at all. I could find a couple. You could win.

But what would your biggest issues be? Still a few turnovers that I would have liked to clean up in the neutral zone. I feel like if you're playing a good defensive team, the Leafs in playoffs have struggled to get in. And I thought last night the Rangers were good and they struggled to get in. So I'll quibble there.

I thought Martin Jones really saved Connor Timmons from going from a kind of whipping boy to full-on whipping boy with that turnover that he had when he's trying to go to an impossible spot. He turns it right over. Guy comes in, gets a breakaway. You're the last guy back. What are you doing?

What are you doing? What are you doing? What is Connor Timmons going to be for them? That's the stuff that scares you. Yes. Not in December, but in April. Play the right way. I want to zoom out a little bit on this

and just say that, you know, we came in here whenever it was doing the Is This Team Good show? Yeah. I feel pretty good about the Leafs now. Like, watching these games, when they're behind, when it's close, like, most lines go over the boards.

Like, Nick Robertson kind of stunk last night, but I like him now. Like, he's got pop and he works hard. I thought he got bounced around a little bit. I thought he looked terrified to get smoked. He was terrible last night. He was terrible. He got bounced around.

His turnovers were late until not one hit, but he's better than he's been. JB, when you say that, you know, I get a sense of optimism out of your voice here, but where are you thinking now that uh when when you watch it and you're you're feeling good about what you saw the glass is half full is that because you think that this this team can compete for stanley cup or they're a lot closer than you thought they might have been uh a month and a half ago i think it's probably a more fair assessment of how i felt about them a month and a half ago when i thought there's a chance they might have been a month and a half ago. I think it's probably a more fair assessment of how I felt about them a month and a half ago when I thought there's a chance they might be actually bad.

Like, I thought they might miss the playoffs. Like, are they the 16th best team in the NHL? Whatever. They're probably the 7th best team in the NHL. You know, there's a group of teams that I think have a chance, but when you're in that group of teams, 5 to 7, whatever, and you add a couple of really good players, you can get into the real group.

You mentioned the... So they're there. You mentioned the confidence in a Stanley Cup. I look around the Eastern Conference, and the only team I wouldn't have some sort of confidence in them going up against would be the team they're matched up against right now in the playoff picture would be the Florida Panthers. I really do

think that a lot of the other teams they could beat. Like, they play well with Boston. They played Tampa last year, got over that hump. Tampa's not the same team as they were. You look at the Metro, no team in that division really scares me. It's just Florida who they're matched up with right now. Thank you. I watched last night's game, and even if by chance we could have seen

another late game heroic event. I'm kind of glad it didn't happen. A pulled goalie and then find a way to win it in overtime. I'm still watching last night thinking I don't envision the Leafs team as is beating a New York Ranger team as is over a best of seven. I don't envision the Leafs team as is beating a New York Ranger team as is over a best of seven. I don't. They wouldn't be favorites, but I can see it. It has everything to do with I don't think that the Leaf blue line can compete with the likes of Fox and Trouba and Schneider.

Miller. And Keiondre Miller. Did you see Keiondre Miller? And Keandre Miller. Did you see Keandre Miller throw like a bus token to Brody on the first goal? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So Brody's a little bit of a concern. See, again, yes. So if I'm Sheldon, I don't see a game that we could have easily won i

saw brody make a bad decision which he's made a few of them by the way that pinch was really bad he was you know what is even worse on that pinch is that where are you going with your fourth line on the ice? Yeah, like if you keep that in for what? Like you're not out there with Matthews or Nylander where you feel like, hey, maybe if I join in on the rush, we're going to have this dynamic play here. You're going to take a chance with your fourth line out there, and then by chance it doesn't work out, you're going to leave McCann to backwards skate

from center ice to his blue paint in his own zone. That guy... Bobby McMahon. McMahon. Yeah, yeah. McMahon skated backwards on that play more than he has in 10 years yeah it was blue line to his own goal line yeah it was a full defensive rush again and that stuff he's just for a guy that's been around as long as tj brody that can't happen you know for keith he probably looks at

that play and goes all right it hits a skate and they don't have much and if it goes the other way do we remember that play but to your point you should remember it it's a bad play it's a bad play it's a bad play it's a bad pinch so yeah no there's there's there's some of those moments where you're like okay there's some work to be done but i guess my point kip is like i feel a lot better about max domey than i did and that changes how i look at this team or two yeah i feel better about Bertuzzi than I did early in the year. I just, all of that makes me feel better. I totally agree.

And Klingberg is not here. Right. Klingberg's out, Reeves is out, McMahon's helpful, Domi's decent, and so is Bertuzzi. Whew. I totally agree with the optics of Bertuzzi. And he's involved and he's...

He's never going to carry the play. He has to find a way to put the puck in the net, guys. Oh, God. What's he at still? He has to... Is he at five? Six? He's got to find a way.

No one's saying that he has to score... 30. 30 this year. Be nice. Can we get 25? What's he at, five? He is at 5. You're right, Sam.

That gives him between 10 and 15 goals this year. And the play that Marner makes where he flips it up, he makes a great play to knock it out of midair, and he goes in one-on-one with Shusterkin, and I got to tell you, I never for a second thought he was going to score. No. So it's like that tells you kind of where it's at with him. It feels like he has to be on top of the blue paint to chop it in or like land on

his stick in the slot and the perfect timing but i am wouldn't you guys both feel like you're starting to get a little bit more familiar with what he does like i feel like he was kind of missold to me as something as missold that's not the right thing uh i don't know what the term would be but i just feel like you know i was expecting a guy sold not even oversold different sold i don't know i just he's a different player than i was expecting i said i didn't watch him enough in in detroit but i just remember him being way more more in yeah false advertising thank you derek who just buzzed in my ears there but like it's just more gritty or something he's not as gritty in your face.

Emotionally involved, I think. I really thought you'd see him talking to guys on top of the pile. Remember early in the year? I don't know who it was they were playing against. The puck was between the goal. And he just speared him right in the. Yeah, and you liked it. And I loved it.

And it starts a brawl. And it's like, he hasn't done that since. You want one of those guys. Didn't you call for him to get suspended, like, in the first or second game of the year? Like, I wanted him. You wanted him to? To take a suspension? I don't know. No. I mean, I've said some really dumb stuff on this show for two hours a day every day i could

yeah you're right i have no idea but i just yeah we were talking about it last night he had 10 penalty minutes in his first four or three games and he's got 14 all year yeah so he's last 20 games he's got four pimps it's not quite the grease and grit remember we 14 all year. Yeah, so he's lost 20 games. He's got four pimps. It's not quite the grease and grit. Remember, we were all talking about the snot and all that. Bigger bunting was the thing that people said to me. It's like he's just not even close. Say what you know about bunting. He was emotionally involved in games.

And I'm not even saying this as a detracting point to Bertuzzi. I've liked his game. It's not what you thought it was. It's different. Is Domi and Jarnkrok just perhaps a heavier left winger away from a very decent playoff type of third line. Well, I wonder if... I know Domi has been better since he's moved to center.

Do you think the best scenario for the Leafs is that he stays there or they get a good third line center and he plays wing on that line with Jarnkrok? There are times when i'm thinking max is just holding on to the puck one split second too long and it either has a feeling of a turnover or a bad pass and i just think if he can get simpler decisions as a third line checking centerman he could hold the spot there but there's times when the the turnovers are for me still an issue see i agree with you but i don't think he holds on to it long

enough sometimes like sometimes you know i think he's looking for uh yeah you know that's that's that's fair for sure and i'm with you though that it's like i want him he just seems indecisive that play yes i want him to like either have the. He just seems indecisive. Yes. I want him to either have the default be we're going forward, we're going deep, or whatever, and then if you see something, make the play, but not these hope plays. I didn't really notice him a whole lot last night at all.

The commentary isn't on last night for me. It's a general domey. But it feels, the one thing I'm kind of learning about him is that he'll have certain games where he'll be unbelievable, and then other games, I guess it's a lot of guys in the NHL, but him specifically, I've really noticed that he's just like that he'll have certain games where he'll be one of the best unbelievable and then other games i guess it's a lot of guys in the nhl but him specifically i've really noticed he's just like he'll just not be there for a lot of guys don't have that ceiling though like i guess that's why he's been the best player in a game this year i don't think so the maybe maybe the sweden first sweden game okay remember he was really good but yeah there's been a few games

where you're like wow domi was impactful for them and as a third line guy if he gives you five games in 82 where he's the best player in the rink that's unbelievable I'd still like to see Sheldon move him a little bit around I wouldn't mind seeing him on a cut on an occasion up on with Matthews and maybe now maybe now that he's found himself a little bit on this team and he feels hopefully he feels like he's found some footing here well we saw it on saturday night you put him with two really good players and he's got three points and he's supporting the puck and like it looks really good and it's okay sheldon if you want to start every once in a while a power play that may not include 34 and 88, you know? It's just, or... No, I mean, that's crazy.

A minute, a minute. Hold on here. No, come on. Goes a long way, Sammy. What? No way. Austin Matthews is on pace for like 70 goals. If I got PP1, he's going over the boards.

Like, unless you're up seven goals or whatever, I get the perspective. Maybe make him shorter so it's a true split, but, like, first guy off the boards every time is Matthews. But I do think that the way that Domi being better has changed things, like, could you get a third-line center? Can Ryan O'Reilly come be that guy? God, you know, he'd be perfect.

Oh, he'd be really good. But that type of guy, because Jarnkrok, they love him in every situation, it feels like. And, you know, he's fine feels like so you know he's fine for two million he's fine not to fly around the lineup like crazy here but i feel like you know maybe the guy sitting over there staring at me right now and others are hard on yarn croc because he's not really a playoff contributor which he wasn't in the playoffs i understand that but what you're getting for two million bucks a year here i think he's playing playing as well and as hard as i've seen him

for sure play and i do not want to take anything away from that and he's he's leaning me over to to being a fan but uh i i'd still like to see him just, yeah. He's not good. I know. Fighting a little harder at times. But just like, so you can, we're talking up this forward group or whatever, and it's like, you can totally see what you're talking about. You look at the Rangers decor. If you could even kind of hang with them, your forward group is better.

You look at Boston. Leafs forwards are way better. Yeah. Way better. But the decors are not even close in Boston's favor. And goaltending. I'm watching. Both teams. I'm watching. Yeah. Way better. But the D-cores are not even close. And goaltending. And goaltending. I'm watching. Both teams.

I'm watching. Florida, same thing. Barkley Goodrow. Mm-hmm. That guy was a prick last night. Yeah, he gave it to Lagas in a few games. Yes. Pretty good. And that's what you hope that you can win a best of seven with.

And, you know, Nyes, like, hey, we gave him a lot of love for Saturday night. Yeah, which he deserved. Which he deserved. But last night, didn't really notice him a whole heck of a lot. But there was not a snippet of following up that moment Saturday night. Not a sniff. But he's not going to become a tough guy. I don't want him to be a tough guy.

I want to notice him a little bit more like I noticed Goudreau last night. Why? Why? If Nyes becomes Goudreau last night. To me, that's bah humbug. Why? Goudreau. Why? If Nyes becomes Goudreau, he's failed miserably. Not, I'm not talking about skill. I'm just talking about how big and strong you are,

and you pissed off nobody last night. It's the wrong focus for him. He can't do that. I think he can. I think he can. I think he can play a heavy game most nights. I do. And I think he can piss a few people off if he

just followed through on the size and the weight of him. And that's the progression to me of a 21-year-old finding himself in the league. I'm not saying he has to do it overnight, but that's the growth that I'd like to see. That's

what you want in a best of seven, is my point. I'm not saying tomorrow or the next day, but the Yarncrofts cannot do that in the playoffs. And that's the stuff that will make me take a bad penalty because I've had enough of you

i just have to punch you i have to punch you i have to do this i have to do that every playoff series every team in the finals has one or two of those guys where it's like i can't take it anymore yeah i can't take you anymore and teams have no problem taking Yarncroft in April and May. Yeah, you love that, to be honest. That's just one element that's kind of missing still. For sure. From the Leafs in general. And, you know, I do love Matthew Knives for all the reasons you

and everyone else have. I just think that, and I don't know if he'll ever be that guy. I don't think Tom Wilson came into the league being Tom Wilson now. I don't think any of these guys do. I think becoming a power forward like that, you have to develop a level of confidence and an FU that like, you don't touch me, you don't look at me, you don't touch anyone while I'm out here.

You don't just come in like that. I don't think. But you got to dig it out. Right. You got to dig it out. I think your point is that's where it's headed. You know, it's funny that you mention that with Nye, Skip, because I was watching that game.

There's a couple of shifts where he comes in and I'm like, oh, he's going to hit him now. Like I had the expectation in my mind after what he looked like on Saturday that like, oh, he's going to play physically. Like I actually had those thoughts. So I don't think you're far off with that. I just think the Rangers are way bigger, faster, stronger than the Penguins. Yeah, but you don't have to wave the white flag.

No, of course not. But it's a much more intimidating team with the size and the grit. Like, they are a scary team with some of those guys. Like, Trouba, eesh, you don't want to go near him with your head down. Like, you look at, like you said, Goodrell is a, he was a you-know-what. Like, they have guys that aren't that fun to play against. So, I think it's a different animal. But I think you're not too far off.

The other probably comment. I can tie this. Sorry. No, you go ahead. I can tie this to one thing that we have on here is how the Leafs don't draw many penalties. In fact, they almost never draw a five-on-three power play. Last night, they get no penalties. The Rangers took zero.

So to your point, they weren't inspired to punch anyone in the face the whole night they get no power plays keith mentioned that that was one of the reasons he thinks they lost they didn't get any power plays there's also the fun stat that last year the leafs didn't get a five on three till game 73 what is the stat that you have so this is from svenson who tweeted me this so svenson you better not let me down here bubba all right henrik uh for from the last five years these are their ranks in penalties per game like the power plays per game is 26 23 26 23 31st this year so they get power plays in the bottom yeah you know whatever percentile that is 15 and it's just a a lot of league fans be like oh there's a it's like i think it's just because they? And it's just a lot of Leaf fans are like, oh, there's a guy.

It's like, I think it's just because they don't play that hard a lot of times. Yes. Yeah. Right? People do think the five-on-three thing in particular is like conspiratorial. Like, it's the Leafs. The refs don't want to put them up five-on-three and look like they're favoring the Leafs. Listen, historically, we know to go to a five-on-three,

it has to be a pretty blatant. A butcher. Right? You got to punch somebody. Hack them down, it has to be a pretty blatant. A butcher. Right? You got to punch somebody. Hack them down. You got to hack them, pull them down on a scoring opportunity. But from the start of last season

till now, the 31st ranked team is Minnesota. They've had six five on threes. The Leafs have had two. They're dead last and they're not even close to the Wild. Wild. Yeah, no, no.

The Wild have had the most. They've had 22. Oh, the Wild have had the most. They've had 22. Oh, the Wild are the most. There's another team that was close to them. I forget who it was, but there's a Wild that had 22. Either way, the team ahead of them has six, and they have two. So they almost never go on the power play. Why don't we listen to Sheldon Keefe tell us about why no power plays?

You know, I thought we could maybe attack inside a little more. Like I said, it was a strange game. I thought we had more ozone time than they did. I thought we attacked off the rush, especially in that second period. So I thought we did more than enough, but they defended well and had disciplined sticks and there was nothing there for us.

Keefe just skipping through these ones. Can I ask you guys something about Keefe and the general thought of the Toronto Maple Leafs? Do you think it's like a mission statement for them to tell these guys to not muck it up like like in the media no in the games no actually not there people this is something that people have asked me about and talked to me about like i get texts from my buddies being like what ryan reeves had two fights

in however many games he played. It's like, you know, Tyler Bertuzzi was a Tasmanian devil every game I watched him when he played against the Leafs, and he comes here and he's had three penalty minutes in the last, like, there's just no way. I mean, I coached with him for two years. I know. And he's dying for guys to play like that.

So then what is it? I don't know. Unless he's totally changed his, I always thought it was that Dubas didn't provide him the guys who played like that. So then what is it? I don't know. Unless he's totally changed his... I always thought it was that Dubas didn't provide him the guys who played like that. But he did. You know, no. I mean...

He's got more of a point right now. Put yourself in Sheldon Keefe's shoes right now. Who are you going to? Well, it was Reeves until he got by the ice monster. It was Reeves. No. Give me somebody that can really influence a game, not a spot-duty guy like Reeves.

I'm just, it's something that, yeah, I guess. And like, can you make your guy a 5-10 guy? And you're not going to Austin and saying anything. You're not going to Willie. You're not going to Austin and saying anything. You're not going to Willie. You're not going to Tavares. Bertuzzi's already, you know, I mean, outside of dropping the gloves, I don't think he can do any more than he's already doing. It's not Yarncroft.

It's not Keefe. Or it's not Kampf. Kampf. Right? It's not Kampf. So, right? Like, it's not, to his point, the roster doesn't have that in their personalities, in their character. I'm just looking up Bertuzzi on hockey fights. And yeah, he's like a very few fights in his career, actually.

And I just would not have guessed that, but. No, he's not a guy that i'm looking for to drop the gloves unless there's a moment when he can but step in it's not even so much it's not fighting it's i'm not talking fighting that's what i'm talking about i'm talking about just in your face uh yeah Make yourself punchable. This is the best I can describe it. I like that. You do that really well.

I think you could really set an example for the Leafs. I've had that face, guys. I know how to present it. I really know. So another one I want to ask you about last night, Connor Timmons plays, Simone Benoit sits out. You know, for what this leaves, I guess they just need somebody that can make a breakout pass.

That's why they put Timmons in there over Benoit. Well. But to me, on merit, if he wasn't right-handed, like, he might be playing for the Growlers. I think it's more than that. It's not just making a first pass, Sammy. It's they're starving for offense in the back. Are they one of the worst teams if not the worst are they the worst team in the league for i recently saw stats on this i think

points by defensemen they're the bottom one two three teams it's riley think think about the pressure on morgan riley now to continue to make a play like he made on Matthew's first goal, which was a hell of a pass. And to the life of me, I don't know how you think Morgan's more dangerous than 34 in the slot. Like, are you not covering that guy right away? Good point. I do think, you know, Timmons has,

I want to say there's like 20 points in 32 games as a leaf or something like that like it's he has numbers so i think that's probably it where they're like we just need someone to break the puck out make a pass you know they got clingberg kind of thinking they needed someone and in that that's over it's over very over so the question is they need somebody to help morgan i don't want to see morgan have the weight of the world on his shoulder to jump up on on a rush and add layers for another 40 plus games guys it's what are you gonna leave him you know how's he gonna feel at the end of the year he does carry a ton of burden on him in terms of the offense from the back end.

But, yeah. We have a clip on Morgan. Would you like to hear? Yes. It's kind of a snippy clip from Sheldon. On Morgan Riley? Yeah. You can hear the clip.

All right. Does Morgan Riley get enough credit for what he has brought basically since the club dropped at the beginning of the season? I think you've asked me that question probably ten times now, so I would say he's getting lots of credit, yes. Jeez, Sheldon. Sour. Sour for Sheldon after the game last night.

Sour. It's Christmas, bud. Jesus. Man's got a family. That's rude. Okay, I'm kind of surprised at that. I know. Isn't that uncommon?

Because Sheldon, like, give him credit for this. He talks to these guys so much. Yes. And he, to his credit, goes out there and gives them a professional response. 98.9% of the time. And there's only so many guys to talk about. And you couldn't go 0.1% more for Morgan? That's what I mean.

And I'll be like, hey, yeah, yeah. He deserves all the credit in the world. It was great tonight. Good question. Yeah. End of story. Just surprised by that. That's why I put it in there.

I think sometimes we all just get a little grouchy sometimes. Yeah? Old Sheldon definitely falls into that category. Maybe he's just ticked off that he has to put him back on the power play. Yeah. Getting redundant. When he's tried so hard to get other players there. Sign someone else to do that.

Back where we started. Maybe if the league would give them any power plays, they'd have more chances to try it out. So maybe he'd be better there if they got to do it. They just never get to do it. They're almost dead last in the league. Okay, we have to, before we go to break, we got to mention the game-winning goal.

And again, I mean, Sh have to, before we go to break, we got to mention the game-winning goal. And again, I mean, Sheldon, you could kind of talk about the screw-up on that third goal, the Schneider goal. Yeah, him blown by Tavares and the switch there. Off of an innocent mid-ice face-off. Yeah. Like, how do you... Kind of a neutral zone.

How is Tavares flat-footed on the blue line just sitting there like he's they're playing Red Rover Red Rover we call Schneider over I think if we did the video breakdown we would find something on McCabe there okay yeah penalty let's let's go let's go to Sheldon on the game-winning goal. Well, we missed an assignment on the face-off early. We pressure the puck like we're supposed to, and then it goes D to D. We turn the wrong way, which allows him to jump by us. We're not supposed to follow the puck.

You're supposed to hold your lane. It's 5-1 on ones in that situation. We got beat, which allowed their guy to come with speed, and then John, who's above the center like he's supposed to be, he's flat-footed now and has to defend the guy coming with speed. And then, again, just like the way the night is. I mean, it looks to me like that guy's trying to go under the bar with that shot, and it goes 5-0.

So I think that's the way it goes. Now... Tough one for the keeper. He thinks he's going to the stairs. Was it McCabe wide? The two defensemen were wide like they were almost like both their hips were the boards yeah and i think mccabe may have gotten picked a little bit but i i don't even know but it's not it's not if he should have been even close to blake wheeler i think who may have done it i i just know that being in john tavara's situation there is so hard.

I know he's already not the greatest skater, but you would have to be the greatest skater to go flat-footed against anyone in the NHL coming with speed and make a play on him. Yeah, and, you know, McCabe playing on the other side again with, we talked about it a little bit last night, but it's like he looked a little more horned up last night. A little bit more early season mccabe jumping up a

lot and i think it was a play maybe where he thought the pass was coming to wheeler he was gonna maybe intercept that and then the route a little and then he turns around he's getting wheeler bumps him out and it's in the back of the net we didn't talk really martin jones but good effort right he held them in there yeah but that's when you really would have liked to save on a, I guess, and Sheldon just spoke of it. He's trying to go up top. Yeah. It ended up being like this knuckleball that went in.

Fellas, it's Martin Jones. Right. You know, like there's three bad bounces go by him. He's pretty good the rest of the night. He lets in a bad goal. Martin Jones is going to let in bad goals. And you can hope you can overcome it. But I thought he got pretty unlucky for most of the night. No? Like bad goal he martin jones gonna let him bad goals and you can hope you can overcome it but i thought he got pretty unlucky for most of the night no like that has it been a jag goal that first one is the weirdest goal all year yeah i still don't

know how that went in but yeah fair question okay we're gonna get uh luke fox nhl writer for sportsnet.ca we're gonna join him the break, and we'll get into tomorrow night, facing the Buffalo Sabres. Did Martin Jones earn another start in Buffalo, or do you go back to Samsonov? We'll ask Luke and the boys football league it's the fan check down with matt marchese and donovan bennett subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts

the new york rangers avenged their loss last week with a 5-2 victory over the Toronto Maple Leafs. Let's welcome in Luke Fox, NHL writer from Sportsnet.ca. And judging by your Zoom shot in a police lineup, no. Luke, what's going on, buddy? There's only so many rooms available when you got company over for holidays already. You got to find any spot you can. There you go. Well, we appreciate it a lot.

And you've been along the journey of the Toronto Maple Leafs every step of the way. Let's start the way we finished our conversation before the break. And that was on the goaltending. And were you surprised to see Martin Jones at home up against the New York Rangers? Would that have been a Samsonov start for you? And where does that leave Sheldon Keefe going in tomorrow night against Buffalo?

Yeah, I wasn't surprised at all. Just based on Samsonov's body language after his last start when he got shelled it was quite a scene actually because usually by the time they let us reporters into the game or into the dressing room after the game pretty much everyone's cleared out uh and then one by one they bring out the guys who uh you know that are going to talk post-game to the media. But Samsonov was still in his stall and he just had this vacant look on his face. You know, you could tell that he felt he'd let the team down and the team didn't, you

know, make him available to talk. And that's happened a couple of times in the past when he's gone through some sort of, you know, mental struggles or, you know, he's struggling with his confidence. And then to see Martin Jones go in the next night and have a fine performance, it wasn't surprising at all that they've, you know, gave Jones the ball to run with it. So, and then at practice, Samsonov stayed on for extra work. So all the telltale signs were there that it was going to be jones's net last night and you know besides the one mistake on the game winning goal brayden schneider's goal you know he said he wanted to have that back he went for the poke

check probably should have not given such a big five hole to him but other than that there was just fluky bounces so i'm not really blaming the goaltender for the Rangers loss. But now they're in an interesting spot and they got two soft opponents before Christmas, the Buffalo Sabres, who are just a mess right now, getting booed at home. And then the Columbus Blue Jackets.

I would give Samson off the net tomorrow night in Buffalo, but I would definitely try and give him at least one of these to see if he can't get some traction. And you'd like to think if the team plays strong defensively in front of him, the fact that he's facing a team that's out of the playoff mix, a lesser opponent than the Rangers for sure, that maybe he can just take a step, right? It's all about

trying to build some momentum the guy has not linked a string of strong starts he's had moments but he hasn't really got that traction you know i think of uh lenis allmark and buffalo goes to boston behind the really good d and all of a sudden he's really good i think a talbot in ottawa goes to la behind a really good d and all of a sudden he's really good. And like the Leafs this year defensively have been not very good. Do you think it's a matter of the Leafs D are not helping Samsonov out this year or that their lesser D are exposing what he really is, which is maybe a backup goalie in the NHL? Well, I think there's both things at play justin for sure uh i i think like i said i think

he's had confidence issues i don't think mentally he's gotten the traction that he had last year when he went on a run and and ended up with his his best career season really um he had he was he was really good for the leafs and i don't think we can't ignore the fact that the team took him to arbitration. And it's like chicken or the egg. Did the team do the right thing by sensing that maybe this guy isn't worth betting on long term? Or did the fact that Bradtree Living went in there and said, I want to give you the least term possible, the least money possible. Did that start him off on a foot where he was putting

too much pressure on himself? Like, I got to go out there and prove it all over again, even though I had a pretty good showing in the playoffs and had a pretty good season by my standards. For the third straight year, I'm in a contract here. And that's a lot of pressure, especially, you know, when you step aside out of the rink and consider this is a guy with a young family, just had a baby in the spring. And I think he's putting a lot of pressure on himself to earn money for his family. There's a human element to this as well. So I think that's part of it. But I think absolutely the team needs to play better in front of them. In that Columbus

game, they did not give him a chance to find his rhythm. They were awful in that first period. You guys saw that game. So when you're dealing with a fragile goalie, you have to help him out to a certain extent too. We saw in his one shutout, the team was fantastic. It was like an easy shutout. I mean, you hate to say that. You're still playing goal in the NHL.

But that's about as easy of a shutout as I've seen. So I think it's a bit of both. We're talking to Luke Fox, NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. You know, you talked about Allmark, JB, and going to a defensive core like the Boston Bruins. Again, last night, we watched a Connor Timmons giveaway that could have easily solidified the win, but Jones made a real good save to keep it close at the time.

But there's got to be a level of frustration, and I don't know if you kind of caught it. I did catch it a little bit on that Schneider third goal, the go-ahead goal, where Jones kind of gave a look of where is everybody? Did you notice that? Yeah, yeah. Luke, in the sense of getting some serious help for either Jones or Samsonov,

the standings would suggest that you're not in any rush, but on the contrary, I think Samsonov and Jones and eventually Wall may be in a rush right now. Well, no, eventually they need help for sure, and credit to the team because they got their, what is it, seven, eight, nine defensemen playing significant minutes through these injuries to the blue line. And they're holding down the fort.

You know, until last night, the team had gone on a run of nine games where they got at least a point. I believe it was 14 of their past 15, they got at least a point. So they're treading water. They're hanging in the race without defensive help. And really what that's done, I believe, has bought Bradford a living time when the teams he wants to trade with

aren't quite ready to say, okay, we're posting the for sale sign. And that for sure is starting with the Calgary Flames. I think you guys had Keith Jones on your show recently, like the Philadelphia Flyers, same thing, right? Like they're going to be a seller eventually, but you don't want to tell your fan base we're giving up on the season before Christmas. Now the trade freeze has kicked in. So the Leafs have played well enough defensively to buy their GM some time.

But for sure, you know, can this blue line as constructed get them into the playoffs? Yeah. Are they going to win a round two with this group? No. And to that point about the goal you were talking about, the winner, Sheldon Keefe made a point to say that was a defensive mistake.

You know, maybe part of that is protecting Jones, but what he wants is Jake McCabe in that instance, not to go chasing Blake Wheeler at the wing. He's supposed to pick the lane and slow up the speed of Schneider or whoever is coming through that lane to chop down their speed. So that was a defensive mistake for sure. So, Luke, we played a clip of Sheldon being grumpy about a Morgan Riley question earlier in the show.

Don't know if you happened to catch that. How has Sheldon been this year? Has it been different than in previous years? You know, he has his extension. The team is different. Dubas isn't around. Have you felt any different vibe from him over the course of the year? A little bit.

He's a little bit testier. There's been a couple moments. I mean, he's softened now that the team is playing better. You know, we've seen some really strong performances of late. He absolutely loved the Pittsburgh game. He didn't go hard after the Rangers' loss, even though it was their first regulation loss in a long time because, you know, he really liked the process.

He didn't think that they got outplayed that poorly. And plus, they're going up against a legitimate team in the Eastern Conference, and he thought they held their own against them. So he's softened a bit of late, but in that early going, for sure, he was getting a little bit prickly when you'd ask about Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi's kind of slow integration to the team. It didn't click immediately. And he kind of bristled at those questions.

You know, we were nitpicking a little bit when Austin Matthews or Mitch Marner had a little dip. And he got his back up a little bit more than maybe he would have in past seasons. And, you know, I've heard some people theorize that maybe that's because well uh kyle dubas is gone and he has a different gm and and the new gm just lets him speak his mind i don't know if i'm buying that so much as just he's feeling the pressure to figure this out quickly he wants this team to be really good he thinks they can win the division and what a bonus it would be if they drew you know a wild card team like you look at the metro the teams that are going to make the playoffs at the bottom of that

division aren't going to be very good like if they could wrap up around one in in five games or imagine heaven forbid four games and set themselves up better for round two um and i think he sees that opportunity if the team clicks and so I think there was a pressure in him. And sometimes he likes to take it out on us because I think we can be critical and probably overly critical, probably because we're just seeing the same group so many times in a row. That's what it is. Yeah.

Last night, I think Willie had some decent looks, but a couple of times I think it was a little bit of a hot potato. And, you know, nobody expected Willie to. I know he's getting points, but he's dialed it back a little. Yeah, that's my point. Sorry to step on your question. He has dialed it down a little bit. But where do you see Willie at this point right now?

Yeah, you're right. He's not as on fire as he was to start the season, but he's still got a nine-game point streak going. He's still getting his cookies. I think things changed a little bit when he got put with Austin, and I think maybe he feels like, okay, I need to set him up a little bit more. I think he's looking past,

and he actually has set him up for a couple of beauties. Last night, it was the defenseman McCabe and Riley with some some pretty nice assists. But yeah, I mean, he was you could argue he was the MVP. Maybe you could make the case for Morgan Riley through the first, I'd say, 20 games, definitely through to the end of the Stockholm trip. And it was almost unsustainable, the clip he was playing at. But my concerns for him are pretty low. There was this one moment last night. I don't know if you caught it, but they had the zone and he had the puck and he went back out of the blue and left the zone on his own

just to come back in with more speed. It almost created something. He just thinks the game a little bit differently than the average winger for sure he's just having a good time out there yeah yeah um so that's great so we're talking about the division around them and how this year there doesn't seem to be there's not the bruins of last year i don't think you know as currently constructed how many teams you think are better than this Maple Leafs team? I was saying that I had the Leafs in the NHL maybe as the sort of 5th to 7th best team in the league.

In the East, who do you see as ahead of them right now? I'd put the Rangers ahead of them. I would. I like their blue line more. I like their goaltending a lot more. I would put Florida ahead of them. When Florida came into town, there just felt like a gap. Just in puck battles, in speed, determination, rolling four lines.

So I'd put the Panthers ahead of them and maybe lump the Leafs in pretty close with the Bruins. I think if the Leafs are on their game, the Bruins have tailed off a little bit. I think they might be able to hang with them. As long as they get a good goaltending performance, I still give the Bruins the edge in that. Luke, terrific stuff as always, man. And by chance, if you're out and about in the city, the three of us are larges.

Okay. All right. Three bag. You're not thinking about the Leafs all the time. Are you talking sweaters? What are you talking about? Sweaters. Whatever it is that you are shopping for, I suppose.

Harry Rosen's. Harry Rosen. Yeah. All right. Thanks. I also like my little Buddha in a large. Okay. There you go.

Done deal, pal. Thanks for doing this. Look at Fox in a large. Okay. There you go. Done deal, pal. Thanks for doing this. Look at the box. Sportsnet.ca. So I think Willie's got like three goals in his last, what, nine or ten games. I mean, good for me. He's also got a million points. 11 points in his last five games or something like that.

Yeah. Even if he dials it back a little bit in the back half, he should be right around 100 points. We are back in the time of year where there's some puck battles where he's like, you can have that one. But he is still the electric force that he always is with the puck. That ain't going to change. Watching Austin right now shoot the puck, like he's...

It's otherworldly. Yeah's uh it is it is i mean he's he is like cocked and ready to go the moment he crosses the blue line it's like you know maybe to luke's point a little bit it's hey we all know where we want the puck to end up and maybe willie's got a little bit of that in his head yeah austin has um two goals in five of the last seven games he's played, which is obviously a pretty torrid pacing. Sammy's got him on pace for 73 now. The goal, the second one, the first one was a pretty fortunate, good bounce, good play to get it towards the net.

It kind of deflected up. But the second one. He powers it through. He just stares. One of the best goals on earth, eye to eye. How much room do you think he had? Couldn't have been much more than a puck. there's one of the best goalies on earth eye to eye how much room do you think he had could have been much more than a puck i mean to me just eric is up against that post king no he's been really

good and ever since i guess you give keith credit for calling him out you know that one game whenever that was before boston right where he was like you know we need austin to be better with austin or whatever he said and i can't remember why he just, even when he's now entering the zone, he's got his presence back, right? Yeah. You know what's crazy too, though? The size, the speed, the shiftiness. Yeah, and to that point, you know, looking at their top guys,

Marner now is quietly on pace for career highs in goals. I think he's on pace for 37 in points. He'd be just below last year. He's at 97-point pace, so he's kind of, after a slow start, he's coming off eight goals in eight games. He's kind of finding a little bit, too. So those two guys, this is kind of the time of year, the elite players, just everyone else kind of falls off

and their skill really shines. Yeah, people are getting more tired. Guys are hurt over of the lineup mistakes here and there and yeah like i expect you know going against buffalo tomorrow who just gave up uh touchdown on a safety to the to the blue jackets boys and then blue jacket on saturday but between buffalo and we'll get into this in the next hour on our national part of Real Kipper and Born here, but Buffalo and Ottawa were supposed to be knocking on the door. Yeah.

They ain't. They're knocking on the basement door. It's a tent right now. Knocking on heaven's doors. There's no door. There's just a flappy tent. It's a dog door just blowing in the wind. Okay. We're back with Kevin

Sheveldayoff, general manager of the Winnipeg Jets. He's going to join us. There's a surprise for me. That's going to be awesome. I'm excited about that. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Right back at you after the break.