Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Battle of Ontario Fallout

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 2-1 loss to the Senators on Saturday night. They discuss the lack of emotional investment, Bobby McMann's play on the top line, Shane Pinto's polarizing game-winner and Nick Cousins' collision with Jacob Quillan. Then, they get into how the Mikko Rantanen trade impacts the discussion around pending FA Mitch Marner. Later, Hockey Night in Canada's Craig Simpson (33:05) weighs in on the Leafs' lack of secondary scoring, their need for blue-line production and whether Auston Matthews is back to 100%.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Alright, I hope you guys are well rested this weekend because there is a ton to get into both locally here with the Toronto Maple Leafs, nationally, right across 32 teams in total. And maybe a couple of minutes for Sammy to cry about the Buffalo Bills. But it all kind of started Friday night. And we'll get into that in our Leaf Hour edition. Also joining us in about 35 minutes, Craig Simpson, former NHL or Stanley Cup champion, always a great guest to cover off the Toronto Maple Leafs. Also joining us in about 35 minutes, Craig Simpson, former NHL or Stanley Cup champion, always a great guest to cover off the Toronto Maple Leafs. And then in our national hour, Elliot Friedman, Hockey Night in Canada, 32 Thoughts.

Is he coming in studio or we got him on? So we can only imagine what his hair will look like. No kidding. No kidding. But hope it was a good weekend. Good weekend. I played hockey twice. Oh my God.

For the Toronto Maple Leaf alumni. How was that? And I'm not done yet. I'm going to work tonight in support of the Toronto Maple Leafs A Night With The Blue and White casino style in support for the MLSC Foundation. If I give you 20 bucks, will you play some Hands of Blackjack for me? I will. Yeah. Alright. For sure. Let's do it. And no matter what it is, I'm hitting. I'm telling you right

now. Hold on, I don't know about this. Yeah, yeah. We need some strategy. We're really, really aggressive. So I promised York University goalies Matt Toville and Alex Chu, York University goaltenders who came out yesterday during our outdoor skate down by the lakeshore, which was fantastic. And they're great. I beat Chewy with a redirect to open up the scoring. I hope he's okay. Yeah, I don't know. Mike might take the day off.

You put it in off your shin path or knee with a gentle kicking motion? Oh Is that the difference of the hockey game Saturday night? I could have a plate so I listen wherever you are watching and listening sports at 590 the fans sports at 360 and sports at plus We're glad you are around The Toronto Maple Leafs has Justin just said got totally hosed and before you get in there I also just want to wish a very happy birthday to my lovely wife.

It's her really nice. She's at home chilling with a cup of coffee, surely watching us. Of course. And not a show. Happy birthday, Bree. Happy birthday to Breezy. Yeah. All right.

Happy birthday. Okay. So I got a chance to watch the game because I was in Oshawa Saturday night. We were beating the Boston Bruins alumni. That was just hope. Hope I didn't undress Ray Bork too many times Saturday night. Was it the Mario Lemieux putting it through his skates while he was going the wrong way sort of dangle?

Yeah, actually our guest today or tomorrow. Brad May dangled him. Was it not May? No, May was in the outdoor game. He did not come to Oshawa, but a shout out to everybody that showed up there I think we had over four thousand people there. But hold on the the Mayday goal Was it not Ray Bork that he put it through? Oh, yes. Okay, right. Okay Yes, yeah And Andy Moog if I'm not mistaken, we I think we have Brad May coming on tomorrow. We do not

We got a great week. So I did not watch the game live, but I got a chance to revisit it Therefore I'd like to get you guys starting your thoughts first on Basically what you got out of a 2-1 Ottawa senator win you know, I'll just say that if on basically what you got out of a 2-1 Ottawa Senator win? You know, I'll just say that if Matthews, Marner, Nylander, if those guys don't score goals, they don't win games. And it's black and white,

and they didn't score a bunch of goals, so the hockey team did not win the hockey match. I didn't think the team looked any different or anything was all that terrible. They just, those guys didn't score. And right now the team is in a position where if they don't, they've got two lines of players where they're like, you guys just don't get scored on.

We'll wait for those guys to score. The other guys didn't score. That was it. I was really excited about the emotion of the hockey game at the start, where it was really excited about the emotion of the hockey game at the start where it was really feisty In Ottawa Leafs fans all over the building 100% felt like it was really Building towards a potential cross-check to the face type of game Like it just really kind of felt like that had the potential

You know with Nick Cousins doing what he did to poor Jacob Quillen and all this different stuff it felt like it really was bubbling up. And then it just kind of went away. Like early on Reeves and Chuck were in it. It was like, oh, this is gonna get good. And it just really felt like it was bubbling up and it just, the emotion just wasn't there for me after that.

It felt like it just really quieted down and went away. All right, let's get to Craig Brewery's overview of the game Saturday night and we'll follow it up Well, we didn't hit me we had a lot of opportunities who didn't put it in that I think that's the difference I thought Team played hard. We were ready to go, you know Thought we did a lot of good things except score. I mean, you know, we had a lot of we got better as a game went along yeah, I agree with them they got better as the game went along but I I didn't like the Leafs start at all. They were hemmed in in the first shift and just to go back to

Marner and Matthews. I Don't know. I can't recall seeing Marner worse all season long. I didn't like him. No didn't like them at all. Didn't like. You know what's very funny about this? Is I didn't think Matthews was great. So here we go. But they weren't very good together. And all the things that Craig Brewery was talking about, about bringing more emotion and getting off to a good start,

like didn't see it out of the big boys. And I think, to your point, Austin didn't even get his first shot on goal till about 13 minutes left in the third period. Like, what is that? Well, and it's funny too, cause they did score fairly early, was it like six minutes in or something, Marner passed it to McMahon? The only only past that I saw a pass. Yeah, it was fantastic

This lot the rest of them kind of you know Yeah, didn't didn't connect like you usually see him connect It did feel like a game where to your point Sam like in like the 1990s or the even 2000s where this game gets? contentious and feisty and thousands where this game gets contentious and feisty and it does feel sometimes like the Leafs top line doesn't have that bite and they never will. That's just the way they are of whether it's Brady Kachak or it's Nathan McKinnon or whatever. It's kind of a low desperation game for a game that, you know, it wasn't that desperate. You don't have to win that game, but it should have mattered more than it looked like it did.

I think there's a lot of these games where it's such a huge game for the Sens and it's such a huge game for the Habs and they ended up blowing the lead to the Leafs, but they come out like a house on fire, where it's so important for them in their building with 80% Leaf fans to come out here and play great and it's the Super Bowl for them and all the Leaf fans feel that way

But the players on the ice don't like I really don't get the feeling like you know I we talked a little bit about this on Leafs talk after this game And I'll run it by you, but you know Austin Matthews this week Calls out the fans for being quiet And you know it's it's's an in person thing for not being loud during a fight and he thought there wasn't a lot of energy in the building and it may not be a direct call out of the fan base. But that's the way it's taken and it's been talked about or whatever like it was a big

talking point. And then to go into that game with all that emotion and the way you're fighting and just everything looked and then just to have nothing from him. So it was it just kind of was like, it rubbed me the wrong way a little bit. Maybe the pressure to interview the fans last night saying, listen, it would have been nice if Austin showed more emotions.

Yeah, well, it's happening right now. That's what this is. Everyone, well listen, everybody, would it have killed you to just cross check someone in the lower back, or just be pissed off, or like pretend to be pissed off? Everyone's at each other's throats for the first ten minutes of the game. There's just zero emotion in it every game every game we've watched Austin and go something's wrong or

He must be hurt That's what he looked like Saturday night. It starts like that. Yeah, you know when he's really good is That's what he looked like Saturday night. It starts like that, yeah. You know, when he's really good, is taking pucks away from people, yeah. And he's got a jump, he's got a spring, he's got a step. He's on people quickly with that stick. And it was like gone Saturday night.

Yeah, not great. He didn't like Marner, I thought he had to puck a lot. Maybe he's just throwing it away a little bit. I'm just used to seeing him really good all the time. Yeah, standards are high. Both of them. But it's crazy because like, you know, we're talking about those guys because it didn't work for them that night. For the best guys on every team, it doesn't work for them sometimes. That's the way it goes. But you need to have something when it's not going great for them.

And that's what Brady Kachuk has. That, and I'm not comparing Brady. He's obviously a unique player. I'm not comparing Brady to Auston Matthews, but. I even mean the rest of the lineup though, but go ahead. But like there has to be other ways that you can still get notice if it's not happening on a game sheet.

Yeah. get noticed if it's not happening on a game sheet. And that's where you're looking for something. And it's not the edge that a Brady or Matthew Kachuk could bring, but, and I like Max and him kind of going at it. And at the end of the day, if Max finished the game last night and said, listen, like I was in Brady's face all night and he didn't kill us, he didn't beat us tonight, you know, I did my job.

I was in his face, I distracted him, he didn't kill us on the score sheet. I did it. I did my job. Right? Where was everybody else? Yeah, I just, you know, there's so many guys. So Max has something he can do when he's not scoring. He has something that can contribute. And I just, I've said this a hundred times in the show and

people like, we know, born, but they have so many guys who you don't require anything from. You don't Pondis Holmberg. You just don't want them to mess up. Right? David Camp is play good defense, do or do the same thing D You know Steven Lorenz just you know kill penalties They have way too many guys in the lineup Minton Reeves Quillen last night punts punts complete punt guys where you're like alright as long as this line doesn't kill us It's like even when the Leafs in the past have had third lines. You don't love it's Kasha and it's engval and it's Engvall and it's

Kerfoot like it was like oh they're only getting 10 or 15 this year you know not zero you can't get zero like you're getting from some of these guys absolutely nothing so that's killing them and you mentioned obviously you're missing guys too you're injured so that's a big part of it and Borny said a text in our group chat on Saturday night and it's just something I noticed as well throughout that game where I know why Brady Kachuk doesn't have any goals for ten games It's like he's not playing hockey half the game It's like he's just so focused on asserting his dominance

But then I want to criticize him for it But I'd kill some for some of an aspect of that from some of the Leafs starts with a tough balance But he's just pushing and running around and like not playing hockey for some of the Leafs starts with a tough balance, but he's just pushing and running around and not playing hockey for some of the Leafs. I honestly, after whistles, I find it like high school shoving with your buddies, immature. Just go line up for the next draw sometime. He has to find that line for sure, and he's still not there.

I totally agree with you. There's a hockey game happening around you while you're trying to like. And he's far too talented. Right. He should be getting 40 goals in his sleep. Standing at the net for chip and pox. Yeah.

And it's like a big, huge monster. His first goal in nine or 10 games. We can all agree Bobby McMahon can look pretty good as a frontline guy in terms of running shotgun with top players like Matthews and Marner you didn't look out of place? No, he can do it. He can do it for sure. Let's go to Bruby. We got a clip on that. Clip four please. Yeah, I thought he skated really well when he had six shots on that I think you know he scored obviously but that line was good. I mean they you know Bobby looked fine

up there to me. It's crazy how important he is to this team. Yeah, that's well, you look at 75% of the Leafs goals have been scored by six guys, him being one of the six. Listen, I, I don't know what other options there are. But you guys know how I felt like for a year and a half that it's still a very difficult ask for Bobby McMahon or Matthew Nice to step in and be like top players for the Toronto May Police to win a Stanley Cup. Oh yeah. Right. And if they falter, come short, it's not really entirely on them.

It's just how much can you bite off and chew at this point in their careers where they should still be developing to better players. I get your point. It's just like every roster in the cap era is like, this got some flaws. There's some soft spots. And if you were to pick where you'd have it, you wouldn't pick goalie, you You wouldn't pick defense you wouldn't pick center. You'd be like, I guess wing. So yeah, they're soft at one of the wings Yeah, okay. Where do you want to go? You want to go to the non challenge? so

Play the clip and then we'll talk about it after okay So this is the goal that stood that That stood as the game-winning goal Saturday night I can't challenge that that's an upstairs called by the league they looked at it and said it was a good goal Yeah, you can't challenge that no there's it's a challenge a kicking motion Can't challenge that no there's it's a challenge a kicking motion Yeah, which I guess is something you can well did they not challenge it against like when Lorenz got his call back earlier Here's against the Caps that was a challenge wasn't it so I don't know is there a certain point in the game where? Everything gets looked at yeah, it's Anyways, but it did get looked at it sounded like by the league

the league and not believe the league thought it was a good goal yeah did you I had to look at it two or three times and then at the end yes it was a good goal there was no kicking motion I know that Sam is gonna bring up the Lorenz goal that got called off earlier in the season, right? No, I I'm gonna say that is There a kicking motion involved with the goal. No there was no there was not his it hits him and then his leg It was like the doctors reflex after the puck was well

No, no, we'll slow it down to the super super duper slow-mo sure but his leg Literally kicks like he's messy comes right up doesn't matter if he kicks it up a hundred times It had nothing to do with With so then shooting the goal in the net it went in the knee and went in and went off And then he was trying to kick it and then he tried to so can I ask so I can ask and like was gone. Okay, I understand that but then why? Like have isn't the rule for no kicking to protect guys around the crease lifting up skates all this stuff It's like if that's not gonna be where you elevate your skate Three inches off the ice after you kick at a puck after it hits you on your leg two minutes for attempted

No, just not doesn't count and like I listen I've watched it a hundred times. I've seen it a hundred times. I Understand what we're getting at here But to me with the puck going in off its leg combined with him trying to kick it the puck went in with a kicking motion There's a kicking motion to me and the puck went in without touching the sticks. Anyways Yeah, it's it's a tough. I's not a tough one it is just wrong he's just fine he's just wrong about any motion anybody's time for everything brother anybody can have any motion after a puck's nowhere near them okay bangs him in the knee and goes in the net and regardless of what he's trying

or thinking there I think it's a goal I can baseball swing the air and shouldn't get a penalty Yeah, you're off scott-free. I don't know I just you know I don't feel like one of those ones to one of those ones to where it's like if you're down to quibbling over one Whistle you disagree with in the game? It's too close. You know you got it. You got to be better than that all right Was there was there not a kicking motion after the pocket? Yeah Was it a kick? No, he didn't kick. He didn't kick his leg

He did after the after the buck bounced off of him you might as I hit him in the shoulder gone And then he kicked you know yeah unrelated to the puck going into me, okay? the hit the cousins on Young Jacob talk about a guy who gets no benefit of the doubt From cousins in my opinion. How do you not kick him out of the game? How do you I love our sports net? our sports net Family here, but did you really need to go to his mom right away? I was like cheese I could Was this first shift it was second first Did you really need to go to his mom right away? I was like, Jesus. Oh, that was tough. I couldn't, I literally. He raced into the league.

Was it his first shift? It was second, first shift. I had to look at him. As soon as they went to her. As soon as they went to her. I honestly was like, oh! I like, I was like, I swung away from the TV. That's signature hockey night in Canada.

They nailed it. They nailed it. Really signature. You think your own mom watching in that moment just being like, oh, my dreams finally come true and have them Just like ripped away from you now. I did catch Kevin B X to talk about it in the first intermission We love Kevin would disagree

Totally disagree with him. Totally Because he brought in a couple of comparables that I Think don't match up. Yeah, don't totally don't match up. Yeah. Totally don't match up. And two were the blind hits on Booth and Savard. Was it Mike Richards on Booth?

And Matt Cook on Savard. Yeah, and those were like legitimate blind side hits where you are a predator, were like legitimate blindside hits where you are a predator, you are hiding in the weeds, and then you're gonna go out and hurt someone. And he also mentioned Saturday night, and again, we love Kevin Biaxa, but I thought he couldn't have been more wrong about he's just trying to make a hit.

No, Nick Cousins is trying to take Jacob's head off with the most cleanest hit that he could come up with. Do I think he's going in there with the purpose of trying to hurt his knee? No. No. Do I think he wants to go and catch him cutting in the middle of the ice? Yes, and when you miss time that hit you're on the hook for the damage is done and it totally like Do you know how good you have to be to pull off one of those hits? Like that the timing the precision know because I've never done open hit like that Yeah, it is not easy. I've tried. It's very hard. And Jacob too was not in the direction of Booth. He was not in the direction of Savard where they're facing the net.

He's coming in the middle of the ice and he should see Cousins. So now we're almost dealing with a north south hit that went wrong. But that Cousins, I wouldn't take my eye off of him with one second because that guy is out there to hurt people. Yeah. Welcome to the NHL. Here's the league's most dangerous player.

Really? Like, I'm what you say there makes sense, but he missed with the chicken wing and then he sticks out the leg like it was the double whammy. He knew he was missing he tried to make contact. He had him in the trolleys. He did. He had him. He cut back at the last second and then I thought Cousins bailed as well and that is a classic knee-on-knee when you almost have two guys bailing at the last second cousins enough that you know the I Don't think you had the confidence just stay in that lane and just take him head-on and Did cousins stay in the game or no, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you left. Yeah, they didn't come back

So I I mean I felt you know initially felt like oh, yeah He left. He left. He left. He left. He left. He didn't come back. So I mean, I felt, you know, initially felt like he has the quick. Yeah. I mean, he sticks the leg right out. Yeah. Initially, I thought he was sympathy hunting, making sure didn't want to, you know, can't get bad to me.

I'm the hurt one, but he's lucky. He's the season isn't over. Well, for sure. If I'm being 100% honest, my one of my first thoughts was like he's gonna be collecting NHL paycheck for a long time because I that to me looked like he'd be on the IR and It was never really truly spoken but like Like I would be in the miners and I'd hear guys having conversations if I get up there I'm I'm getting a dive. I'm getting hurt. Yeah. I'm gonna collect a month pay.

I'm collecting NHL money for as long as I can. It definitely happens. How do you not, how do you not kick him out of the game? Like, how do you not get a five minute? He didn't get a minor, did he? He didn't get anything. I don't know. That's a major minor, whatever you wanna do.

The Eagles unpunished for that is absurd. Yeah, agreed. It's a flash point moment, the middle of the ice the pucks right there before we You know later in the show We're gonna have Craig Simpson on which looking forward to that and we do have other stuff to talk about but I feel like During the Leafs hour we should talk about ranting in a little bit because of how it affects Marner who oh my gosh Right how quick did those conversations come up?

Well, like people are sending me now Could the Toronto may beliefs trade Mitch Marner before the NHL trade deadline? Yeah Well, no, because he doesn't if he doesn't want to go and he doesn't have to go right some very big difference here and and I actually don't have any anything new to offer on it from, you know, I think we kind of know what we've known about the Marner thing, right? It's going to come down to what he prioritizes. Is it money? Is it staying in Toronto?

No, I think it's safe to say the Leafs are trying to sign him right now. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. OK, so would that be related to Renton and then? Listen, if you look at these two guys they Do the best wingers now in the league? Yeah, and no doubt about it and And they happen to be as of now available July 1st. Yeah, so

the Comparables are right there. Yeah, I think it would be the comparables are right there. Yeah, I think it would be the right thing to do. And I'm glad to hear that. I think it's the right time. Everyone's talking about it. You'd like to not leave it all the way to the end. Okay, if you were Brad for living,

and this is like you've had a couple Coors lights at your local Boston pizza, and it was me and him talking, and Mitch Marner didn't have like in the conversation where he didn't have the no move and he had the what is it didn't what did it have night was it 19 teams that he could be couldn't be traded to third I forget what the number was but he had a limited do you think that they would ever consider something like this like midseason because I cannot believe that Avs did it. I truly cannot believe they did it.

Like I'm stunned by it. There's no- After reading my trade board, you're still stunned? I mean, literally our guy came out and told us what was happening. Like what? By the way, let's take a moment. For all the people who are haters and doubters

on some of these trade boards, no one had that but you first. The haters and doubters are sick, I will say. Yeah. Where are they now? Number one on the trade board going I had people say that was out of left field wasn't it? No. It wasn't. Listen, I love you bud. I didn't see it coming. I still was like there's no way but you've been hitting at this all year. But I just can't believe that people are like you you should do this with Mitch, whatever. It's like, the Abbs shouldn't have done it with Randon. Why did they do that?

That, you're 100% right. Do you hear McKinnon on it? He was like, I don't care if he gets paid more than me. It's like, yes. Buddy, that's absolutely the right answer. Do you think it's the right true answer? What's that? Do you think it's true? I do. I think he's smart enough to see that the cap situation has changed

Let me let me tell you let me give you my definition of A true leader. I would have been an NHL dressing room. Okay and that is the scenario I would picture if Nate McKinnon was a true leader in that room would go up to Miko Ratnan and say, hey buddy, listen, if these guys don't pay you what you're worth, then get out of here as fast as you can. It's not I really need you and try to stay and let's try to win more Stanley Cups because

that's nothing but a selfish guy looking at it through Nate McKinnon. It's what's good for Nate is if he sticks around. But we are all in this business because we love it. But sounds like we're in it for money. The number one priority, I'm telling you, and it doesn't get often said, but in those dressing rooms is get your money. Get your money. And that's what Nate should be told. Rantanen. Well, you don't you don't you feel undervalued, you feel unappreciated. They're trying to jam it down your throats Get out of here as fast as you can. Yeah, I'm not on board with that Kip. I don't You may not feel it. Yeah, but that's that's what goes on in rooms. I would say, you know, cuz I've heard them

I've heard it count countless times in every NHL dressing room I've been in but you can't talk you're talking about leadership and winning and people have different priorities and if someone's priorities are every nickel, that's fine and that's fine, you can respect that whatever, but it's not everyone's priority. Some of them, like McKinnon said in a lot of these interviews, for him it's winning. That's what his top priority is Sydney Crosby Obviously the most recent example of a massive pay cut, but you can't hang it on somebody else. No, you can't right? No, you can't absolutely and so it depends and so that's the same with Marner if Marner's priority is

Getting every bit of what his value is then yeah Maybe it's not gonna be here and he can go get that value somewhere else if he prioritizes The city or he thinks he has a better chance to win somewhere else, it comes down to a choice of what is your priority. And I think people's priorities are different. In terms of Colorado, they showed Branton zero respect. Zero. How so? They just refused to pay him anything that remotely looked like a fair deal. What do you think their top offer to him would have been?

Like would they have got at Simmikinon's 12 and a half or whatever? No. No. That's preposterous. They didn't have to. What do you mean they didn't have to? They didn't have to. Why? Because Ranton had told them, I don't have to make as much as McKinnon.

So that's what Ranton had said, I want more than that. And they said, we're not going to do that. No, no, no, no, no, no. This whole, I need 14 million like Leon Dreisaitl was all BS. Never happened, never was discussed. Just they thought that there should have been at least something passed, Pasternak's contract of what, two years ago?

Is that right? Right? And they said no. And that's dumb, That's so dumb. You know, like you look in the past, if you're at the Rantin camp, you go, the salary situation has changed significantly from that. Don't care. Well, it doesn't matter. They get to say they don't care, but that's what's dumb. That's super triple dumb. Thank you. There's like 12 good players in the league. Yeah. You know, you have two of them. That's super triple dumb. There's like 12 good players in the league.

You know, you have two of them, don't let one go. And I realize, yeah, you have three, that's right. That comes back to the Marner thing, where it's like, I've said a lot of things about Marner and have my opinions and playoffs and yada yada. I have also said, I think it's best if you just sign them. You know, it's just, there's not that many of of these guys I don't see how you're better without them and I feel that way about Colorado And as much as we can sit there and say hey, they got some value back and Martin Natures got a few points the other night

And they'll probably turn the picks that got into a player I would imagine at the Rantanen If you look at his playoff history, he's got beast. Irreplaceable. Yeah. Right? I think Miko Rantinen, I was looking at his hockey DB over the weekend in 81 playoff games, he has 101 points. Yeah, and he's fourth in total points going back to five years or something like, and

he's 28. Martin and Nages in five years or something like it's and he's 28. Martin and he's big. In 59 playoffs games, it's 30 points, 11 goals. He's kind of had a history of going the other way in the playoffs. Anyways. But here's what I, if I'm McFarland, they must have had some inkling he didn't want to resign there.

Or they're just, we're going to be too far apart. Because I do feel like, let's say we're sitting here to start the show It's October fifth next year and The Leafs are holding nothing in the bag because Marner just left And meanwhile Colorado's got nature's Drury and whatever players they get for their picks. Yeah, it's going well who did better there Yeah, you know, I guess it's different depending But it was the opposite he really wanted to stay Boy that that doesn't look good on McFarland then that's there. There's the complete ten really he loved it there

He's been ten years there well and him and McKinnon were born there boys like they weren't just like yeah, I mean yeah, they hung out socially outside But to your point and just to bring it back into our leaf hour How are you gonna replace Marner Yeah, I don't believe yeah, I don't think you're better. There's no chance you walked out the door I don't know how many times I need to say it But I do think there's gonna be a playoff run like I think he's too good a player for it You know, he's just gonna never be good in playoffs. He's too good

So well, you can have us you can still have a great first round and they could lose very possible But I do think that would change the calculus on resigning him or not Like if he at least held up his end of the bargain you'd go. Okay. Well, yeah, that's We need another hour to have that conversation. Well, listen if we piece together all our Marner conversations going back to October We'd have many many hours.. Let's go to break. Okay. Still plenty to get into, including Stanley Cup champion twice, Craig Simpson. Does a terrific job on Hockey Night in Canada. We'll get his thoughts on the Toronto Maple Leafs and maybe his thoughts on the big trade as well.

Plenty more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's The Raptor Show on Sportsnet 590, the fan. And wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kipper, it's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

Just caught a glimpse of a picture of the current Toronto Maple Leafs outside. They're doing the outdoor game we did yesterday or outdoor practice at the Prince of Wales rink in Etobicoke. And it's like nothing but the skyline of the CN tower in the background. If anybody gets a chance to go find it, it is one and the Sun's out to nothing they do that. I love them Yeah, just rubbing it in our faces that we're in here, but we had a great day yesterday as well Oh, is it cool? Yeah, good weather for it. All right a guy that knows a few outdoor games over his career as well

The one that started it all was the Heritage Classic in Edmonton. Let's welcome in Craig Simpson, former NHL'er, Edmonton Euler, Hockey Night in Canada. How are you, Simmer? Hey, boys. I'm doing great. Not near a TV, so I can't see Sammy, but I'm hoping he's still okay listening to you there before. Sammy probably had to go for a little walk and cool himself down. And Sammy, you know what?

It's not a coach's challenge play. So Craig Baruvia is right. He couldn't do anything about it. The situation room did look at the leg movement. And I agree with Kipper and Borney that, you know, it is a good goal, but he can do a cartwheel after it hit him and it doesn't matter. Like I know you're kicking motion is driving enough But it had nothing to do with the play. So and the Lorenz one in Washington was also that it wasn't a coach's challenge

It was the situation room looking at it and going for it. So sorry man, but it happens that way This is why you're one of the top analysts in the game right now because you can tell Sammy that in about 15 seconds And I need yeah, we took about 25 minutes. Sim I was wrong. There's a first time for everything, buddy And he wants to direct the next Saturday night to you know what when that hit came for Quillin my first thought was mom and Dad, too You're a parent there. It's the most exciting day for your kids And you're just thrilled and the second time on the ice that happens.

I was so happy to see him hang in there and I know he didn't play a whole lot after but man that could have been so bad. So Saturday night, I think Leaf fans would have enjoyed maybe a cartwheel or two if it meant scoring some goals in the other end. What is it with this hockey club? Either they go big or they go home with the struggles. Yeah, you know I listen to you guys again and you're saying you're right if the number on the back isn't 88 or 34 or 16 it doesn't look like you have a whole lot of chance to win games right now and And you know, you have to find a way to get some production out of somebody else. It's just, you know, that's

not a recipe. Those are the guys that have to be the best every night. You're expecting them to be able to chip in, but it is that stretch. And you know, I think even both coaches were talking about it Saturday that this is the dog days of the season. You know, there's been a lot of hockey here into that 50 game mark. January kind of has the blues after having an exciting time with your families around Christmas and New Year's. And it always for me anyways was one that this is a tough time where it's harder to get that energy up to be great each and every night. And you know, this is that time where you look around and good teams find a way to win some of those games with a third line or a fourth line that can ship in.

How about a defenseman that can ship in? You know, that's another factor of so many of the last couple of games that have been tight games going into the third period where they've either been down by one or tied at a critical time. And I just can't help but think what it does to a bench when a D-man jumps up and gets involved in scores. You know, there's goals that obviously every goal is important, but there's goals that matter more. And in these types of games where the offense isn't common and it's a tight checking

and you're getting a matchup against the Matthews line or you know, Nylander hasn't had five breakaways in the game, you know, the impact it has on your bench when a fourth-liner, like if Lorenz goes out and gets a goal or Heavens, if Reeves happens to get one, and you know, or Domi puts one in the back of the net. But when a D-man can make a play and jump in and get a big goal, I think back to when the streak was finally broken, where they hadn't had a goal in, what, December. And McCade jumped up and made a great play and made an unreal shot.

And I know what that does to the bench. You know what it's like, guys. It lifts everybody up. That's been missing. And that is an element of the game that really does make a difference and can change some of those games that you're having trouble scoring goals in and allow you to find a way to win some of them. I just want to follow up on that a little bit Simer and you're totally right but now I'm starting to watch other lineups and some teams just have real natural guys.

And the one thing again that stood out to me and I love your thoughts on is that when I'm watching Saturday night and all, it may appear to be a close score, but I'm watching Sanderson and Chabot continuously be that guy for Ottawa, like constantly. It's not like once in a blue moon you see McCabe jump up or once in a blue moon you see Tan of jump up. It's just in their DNA and that and the one guy that the Leafs thought that they had this season was Morgan Reilly to do that but we know he's struggling outside of that. They really don't have that guy. No, they don't and you're right of what it does to the game.

It can be the easy breakout under pressure. Sanderson a couple of times just wield with the puck, use the net as good defenseman dude to stop the pressure he had from behind him. But you also know Nick, you get a matchup where you got a good defense man, dude to stop the pressure he had from behind him. But you also know Nick, you get a matchup where you got a guy like that with speed that jumps up as a winger. It's like, Oh,

do I go with them or do I stay back? You know, it's who's my coverage in the zone. It just causes so much chaos, and it has been lacking greatly. I think Ekman Larson, you know, he's on a four game streak, so there's a little bit of offense from your back end. He's been trying to do it a little bit, but it hasn't been something that's just natural and a part of every game. And Morgan, quite frankly, all year, he just

he hasn't had that confidence and hasn't had that look that he's gonna has the ability to grab the puck behind his own net and just make something happen. And it doesn't always have to be a goal, but man, when you're playing in the other end, it's a heck of a lot more fun than when you're trapped in yours. And, and so many, like you said, Shabbat and Sanderson, they did it numerous times and they're a threat. You know, you get that defenseman going all the way down to the offensive zone and swinging behind the net and you know, a lot of crisscrosscrosses that's where the coverage can get mixed up and that's

really been missing in the back end for the for the Leafs all season long. Simmer, as much as we can talk kind of around the edges about what the Leafs will need to have postseason success I think we all agree it has to come from their most important players. What are your thoughts on Matthew's, not the whole season so much, is where he's at now. Do you think he's back in a place where we can fairly judge his performance separate from the injury? I agree with you earlier on where I thought that was the most invisible he's been since he's been back. I didn't notice it. Chris and I after the game were talking and I looked at each other and back. I didn't notice it. Chris and I, after the game, we're talking

and I looked at each other and said, like, I don't think I said Matthew's name more than twice during the game. And it was one that he, you know, he wasn't, as you've said, attacking and stripping guys a puck and jumping on the loose puck and getting there first and winning the battle. I thought he had looked a lot more like himself during this, what, uh, 10, 11 games back now. So it, to me, maybe it's just a one-off and you certainly hope so, but early on there's no question that, you know, shots that you sort of raise your eyebrow and go, Oh man, what a shot that was, uh, weren't happening early on, uh, you know,

he's sitting now, I know he hasn't played all 50, but what is 34, 35 games in, and he's got two multi-goal games. I mean, last year was a special year, but he had 18. And so that's not by coincidence. You know, you know, teams are gonna pay more attention to them, but they've been doing that for nine years. So that's not anything new and anything that he hasn't been able to overcome

I would hope that Saturday was maybe just a one-off and I guess we'll find out on Wednesday if he looks back More like himself but I was starting to feel that Justin that he looked like the player that you're accustomed to watch and maybe Saturday's just you know one of those nights that it didn't happen And maybe Saturday is just one of those nights that it didn't happen. Simer, if we look at where we are in the standings and you're gonna blink and it's over. And I could easily ask you,

what can you do differently on the power play? But aren't we really beyond that for the Toronto Maple Leafs? And are we now in the window of almost Brad Tree Living doing something, adding somebody, anything that can maybe shake it up or is the answer still within? Because we saw a huge trade,

and I'm not suggesting there's a huge trade out there for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but you've been part of a team when maybe subtle things have been enough sometimes to kind of turn things around. Yeah I think you know interestingly enough we I'm not a big guy I always say stats are for losers that's what Glenn Saylor always said because you can turn them into whatever you want so you can take either side to make it look good or make it not look as bad. You know, January in 12 games hasn't been terrible.

They've been 26.5% in the month of January. But I would say, and I think Craig has said it in some postgame remarks, it's the big time and the big game when it's on the line and you get a power play or two in a row and nothing happens. It's more about situational. They have not been able to say in a key game or key moment in the game where you go, we got a power play, it's in the back of the net. You know, not to look at other teams, but quite frankly, that's the Edmonton Oilers. You know, like that's McDavid and Dry Cytil when you're down by two and you get back to back power plays and you score on both of them and you're back in a hockey game. That to me has really been missing in their special teams is the timely

ones. You know, it's forgettable what the overall percentage of your power play is. And you know, you want it to be in that 25% would be unreal range, but it's more, does it win you games? And can you get the power play when you need it? Do you have that kind of intensity that, you know, you've got the chance to win the game, let's go win it. And I think there's still too much passing on the outside. Teams are not being nearly as aggressive at times.

They're aggressive on the entries, and that has caused some problems as well. But good penalty killing teams always are. They stand up at the line, they attack you when you just get over, they pin you on the boards there and usually go with two and sometimes three guys and that makes it difficult to get the setup. But when they've had the setup,

teams have tried to collapse to the middle. They're not allowing a pass from the left side over to Matthews when he's on the right. They're not allowing anything through from Marner, you know, into Nylander on a similar type play. So to me, you've got to have a shot somewhere. And the one thing I would say this power play does is as good as a shot Matthews has, there is nobody at the top who's going to, you know, like in our day time in Edmonton, Chris Pronger, you know, you're not getting a bomb there that just changes something. I always said to if you're not getting shots through, break someone's ankle

first, like get get in and force a guy to make a hard block. Now he's going to be a little bit more cautious. Now you've got a chance to fake a shot and open up a passing lane. But tell me the last time you've seen a big bomb anywhere on that power play and that is something that you know not every team has but that's something to me that's really been missing is that shot mentality from the top that opens up the lanes when you now attack later because you've got that threat there. Yeah it's uh you, I remember hearing about Dennis Potford on my dad's team. They're saying if a guy would drop and block a shot, he'd happily shoot it at their face the first time so it doesn't happen again. And you've seen Ovi do that too, where he just pounds it into a D three times so the

guy is not there for the fourth one. So I don't think that's coming anytime soon. You know, quick one for you here, Craig, before we let you go, just, uh, the, the Leafs are statistically on point to be the same team they've been the past six years, seven years, uh, in terms of the standings. Do you see anything about their style this year? Do you feel differently about the Leafs because of Craig Berube or, or in any, any way they're constructed, or do you feel it's a pretty similar team headed to a similar, I don't want to say fate, but time of year? It is a pretty similar team headed to a similar. I don't want to say fate but time of year

It is a similar team. I think you know, there are some indications that they are a better defending team But you guys look look at the losses. They've been heartbreaking in the playoffs You know how many times you have to go to seven games and lose but in those six, you know seventh game losses It hasn't been their defense. That's that's abandoned them. They can't score to go to seven games and lose. But in those six, you know, seventh game losses, it hasn't been their defense that's abandoned them. They can't score. They can't score in those big moments. And I think the stat in the sixth game, they've scored eight goals, right, when it matters.

And so you're one a game. And when you need the big performance, it hasn't been their defense that has really abandoned them. It's been their offense. And look at what we've just been talking here in those key moments in the games that are tight games. Saturday being a great example, you know, that game Saturday was you could go back to Boston in a game seven to Montreal in a game seven to the other Boston in a game seven to Tampa in a game seven They haven't been able to score at the key time

And if you only are relying on three guys to put the puck in the net or if Tavares is back in the four You know, that's you you don't get a Nick Paul scoring two goals in a game seven Like who's that guy right now? And that would be my concern is are you the same team in that way? You know maybe this is the year that all four of the top guys break out and all have great playoffs for 20 games. And Bobby McMahon steps up right? And nice scores right? You know exactly. Hey Simmer always great stuff when you're on our show. So appreciate it man. All right take care. Thanks, Simmer. Appreciate that. Craig Simpson, Hockey Night in Canada.

God, he's good. Yeah. Oh, hold on. 447, can you, Derek, get the clip where he says stats are for losers? We're going to need that. You know, you're right. And Simmer, no. Nobody to break any ankles back there, shoot in the puck. No. Well, and simmer. No, nobody to break any ankles back there,

shoot in the pocket. No, well it's- And I'm watching Sanderson control. You know, I'm surprised you can say that. You want a guy that's up for the Leafs? I feel like you don't like that. It would change everything. Klingberg got away.

It would change the dynamics of, and the pressure I think of three guys up front having to do it themselves. Yeah. I mean, so one thing that has been different, Morgan's played with Jake McCabe for three games now. I've liked him more. He's looked better. He's had 11 shot attempts I feel like over those three games. The one thing a little concerning too again to play Craig Bruby style, you got to be on it. You cannot hesitate. Like the one thing that I watched and I'll include Matthews because I thought he was the worst at it is like they're not getting in on the four check.

And if you're going to have if you're going to go up against the Sanderson's of the world or the Quinn Hughes, uh, Shabbat last Saturday or Saturday night, and you're not on top of them. All three strides and they're out of the zone. Yeah. There's no four check. There's nothing. They're pretty good against Quinn Hughes that one game, but uh, yeah, last night, not, not getting in after it.

So it's so important to stop the break out. It's just like it's a one in one out. That's it. Okay. Our thanks to Craig Simpson moments ago for joining us on Hockey Night or from Hockey Night in Canada. And we continue International Hour. We'll go to Elliott Friedman.

We'll get a lot more dirt on the big trade. The Blockbuster Friday night between Colorado and Carolina. That when we return, our national hour. Don't go away.