Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Battle of Ontario Question Marks

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee welcome Sportsnet.ca Leafs insider Luke Fox in-studio to help tee up Toronto's final game of the regular season against the Detroit Red Wings. They discuss how the Leafs approach the zero-stakes matchup before making their playoff lineup projections. They get into the options at 2LW, where Max Domi fits best and a different feeling for the core under Craig Berube. Later, they ask burning Battle of Ontario questions including who will be the most hated figure in the series, the biggest storylines, x-factors, the nightmare-scenario for each team and the potential consequences if the Leafs lose the series.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome in to Real Born and McKee today. We are missing our boy Nick Kiprios. He is attending the service, the celebration of life for Greg Millen today. So we're going to give him a pass for that one. That's a pretty important move for him. So wishing everyone there the best. Also today with Sam McKee and myself, we've got Luke Fox in the house. Luke, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, boys.

Small two-person applause for you there. Yeah, no, this is really cool. We're really happy to have you in. We thought this would be a great opportunity to preview the playoffs a little bit, take a look at the Toronto Maple Leafs. We are now two, three days away from game one of the Stanley Cup playoffs, Toronto Maple Leafs edition again.

How often do you come in here, Luke? You're like the road dog. You're always on the road. I don't even do my reviews in here. Usually I say like, let's go meet at lunch or something. My pass card hasn't worked for a long is that right yeah yeah I was actually thinking like yeah your bosses must be in this building here but you are traveling constantly so are you are you on every road trip not everyone okay so

if there's 82 games I probably go to 74 yeah. Damn. I got out of that Carolina game Yeah, and now it's now it's full on yeah, all right. Well great Well, so you've got a lot of experience and can fill us in on on all the great details cuz tonight Oh the Toronto Maple Leafs are Host to the Detroit Red Wings whose season is over the Leafs entire goal is not to get hurt I mean, I have two pitches for tonight. I mean I have two pitches for tonight Okay, I have two pitches and I gave one in line to Luke at the Tim Hortons before we came down here My first pitch is forfeit Is there a forfeit clause in the NHL like can you be like hey we're paying one million dollars to the league and

No game you'd have to refund every ticket purchase. Yes. And then you'd have to pay the home, which is you. So whatever you just say, yeah, we're just going to forfeit that two million revenue. Yeah. But Sammy, what about that eight year old and it's his birthday and he's going to his first game? Well, you know what, dad shouldn't't about last tickets last game of the season ticket You know it's a higher risk ticket to buy it could be the most electric ticket of the season or the worst And it's about to be the worst my second pitch, okay is the clinch clause Which I gave to you guys in the in the lunchroom before we got on here. Yeah

Last week of the season because I agree that if you start getting a little bit of chicanery Before the last week of the season then you become the NBA which I don't want to do. But the last week of the season there is so many games that are so meaningless and you look around the league and there's a lot of teams that are able to rest because of their cat picture and the way that they've done it and like look last night for Montreal half the best players in the Carolina Hurricanes did not attend that game. Right it was 46% of their scoring did not play. Yeah, so I don't understand why the league couldn't put in a clause the last week of the season

for teams that are having cap issues, quote unquote, or teams that are spending to the cap or the way they're doing it. Just, you're allowed to rest some guys. Why are you not allowed to rest anybody? Like you're like, oh, you're spending too much money on these great forwards. You got to send them out there in a meaningless game and hopefully nothing gets, no one gets hurt. It's weird and stupid to me.

But the league doesn't want to encourage presumably good players not playing in their games. But to your point, you then guarantee you get them in the postseason. Yes. I don't know. The them in the postseason. Yes The integrity of the league though What if what if the Red Wings were fighting for something? What if it someone's going for a record or a milestone like then then you got to like adapt the clinch clause on the fly Well, but what about your only thing into the Leafs here? Cuz there could be other teams playing for things. I mean last night, does that not affect, like what does Columbus think?

But they've earned the right to rest it with their cap management. Yeah, yeah. Your team wanted to pay all these guys, all this money. They have great players that they would love to rest. I just, tonight is horrifying. Well, good news for you. We get to hear from their head coach I gotta put the cliffs in I'm doing a lot today. Oh, yeah

I'm using Sam's playing multiple roles tonight in the big chair So you were down at morning skater was down in morning skate and they're doing the exact same lineup that clinched in In Buffalo Wow. Yeah, so there's no camp no McCabe No Oliver Ackman Larson, correct. They were all participating in the optional morning skates. So they're on the ice, which is a good sign. Great. Which is a good sign. But yeah, same lineup except Joseph Wall.

And they're saving big Anthony Stoller's for game one. Clearly. So do you anticipate that they'll have all hands on deck come Sunday? I do. When the coach comes out and says, you know, I'm pretty confident They're playing if you're a player and you hear that. Yeah, you better play You may be playing through something. Yeah, but you're playing. Yeah. Yeah, I hated

I mean, what was it two days ago or yesterday when we played the clip where he's like, wow I don't he's pretty tough all recommend large. He's pretty tough. So he's probably gonna play Yeah, if you don't't play look like a wuss It is it is a message to them But also like when I heard those clips the more I thought about it the more it's like There is some head games that goes on with some of this stuff, right? Yeah, can you? You know not let the other team know who's gonna be there Yeah, but to counter that though if if they were feeling

pretty good you'd play them and you would rest awesome Matthews and Mitch Marner who finally has his hundred points and maybe Chris Tanneb who's gonna block five million shots over the next two weeks or two months hopefully if you're a fan. Yeah. Yeah. So those guys are in it. The clips are in by the way now. Okay cool. I rock and roll here. One last thing for milestones. Would be cool if Tavara scored twice tonight. For sure. Get to 40. Definitely.

I'd rather him played one minute. Yeah. Like if Pontus Holmberg doesn't play 32 minutes tonight, I don't know what the coach is doing. I want Dakota Murmus looking like Kale McCarr out there tonight. That's what I'm hoping for. Let's start with clip one on trying to stay healthy tonight. There's no science to it. You go play. We'll manage minutes and manage things best we can. Just go play. Play smart, play hard, do the things you normally do. That's really what it boils down

to. Did you see last night the Winnipeg Jetson Mesnikov is like in a shooting lane. The D man drags it around him and shoots it and he kicks out his foot to block the shot, ends up going down the tunnel to the, to the room. He's okay. Yeah. But you're never just fine. Like it hurts. It's going to bother him and escape whatever, but it's like, it's really hard to

turn that off when you've, you've been playing competitively your whole life Jason Robertson got her Yeah, right like and how yeah, and how important is he yeah, and that was meaningless for Dallas, so yeah Yeah, it's scary Sam's gonna be watching through his fingers Well the net the national least fun game to watch it all year by a mile did the I'll sharks 1030. It's pretty tough Yeah, I had to work that But the like the National League instincts like you said where you can tell a guy hey Take it easy tonight. I saw somebody tweet like hey like give the beer league effort tonight I'm like yeah, you're playing in the wrong beer league. We want the opposite of beer league effort tonight

We want like the you know, you want the all-star game energy tonight is laying it out in your tonight we want like they you know with the all-star game energy tonight is laying it out and your Eggs well, I've seen some guys do some things that are unspeakable Don't get me wrong, but I just mean like It's hard to turn off like you said turn off the intensity turn it off And then if when you're thinking like oh, I shouldn't do this here Yeah, is when you kind of get out of character like you must like if you played in a game where you're not I mean not Yeah I played on scene that never won any games in college.

The last game of every year was don't get hurt before a golf season game. Yeah, and did people get hurt? Yes, that's the answer. Because you're thinking like, I don't want to do this. You're like halfway committed to things. Anyways, just a little bit spooky. I do think it helps that the Red Wings

have absolutely nothing to play. They're also. Yeah, yeah. This is gonna have a pre-season electricity to it. Yeah. I wonder if they called anyone up or they're probably the same team. Well, last game of the season they let their guys play. I mean, they're not going to play again for... That's a good point.

Yeah, they're out. So they're not going to play again. Alright. So we're getting close to knowing the lines for the playoffs here. Where I would assume you're going to put them together as you intend them to be on Sunday night. Why would you not? So Domi with Tavares and Willie, where are you on that? How does that feel for you? I am firmly on the fence.

I think they they can create at times but you know even in that Buffalo game There's one line of the Leafs that got out shot by the lowly Sabres and it was that line Yeah, it scares me a little bit defensively and it wouldn't surprise me if that's what they start with Sunday But it would surprise me if they go through a best of seven and that stays intact first I I foresee a Bobby McMahon promotion at some point Yeah, it's like you always push the button to make the top two lines the best you can and that clearly is the answer The underlying numbers when Pontus Holmberg plays on that line pretty good I was thinking here's a random thought I was thinking driving in here today

There's a couple guys that Berube has got wrong I think we have all been following this core for team for the whole way along and One thing we all knew after last year Bobby McMahon was a player Yeah, he was healthy scratch for game one. We didn't like his camp wasn't as enamored with him that to me He like had him wrong. We got him right ends up scoring 20 goals and using him David Camp, I think he has wrong David Camp. He has them. He has them in the same rotation as You know Holmberg and Yarncroc. He scratches them. He doesn't love David Camp We've seen David Camp here be a very valuable player

Mm-hmm, but the other one that I think maybe either I have wrong or he has wrong. He loves Holmberg He does and I don't know where you is this a valuable player Holmberg Is this someone that Berube has found that maybe I just can't see it the way he sees it I think he has had a nice finish to the season which will earn him a start But I would have him in that mix of you better keep that up or yeah Or you could be taking a seat because there's no obvious out of the lineup forwards Do you have 14 of them with patch ready healthy for sure and I think Kelly Yarncroc? I haven't been overly impressed now by him and you know there's a good reason for that he missed It's like yeah three quarters of the season. Yeah coming jumping on a speeding train

I think he's he would tell you this if he was sitting, that he doesn't feel like he's quite found it yet. He's one of those guys that is in the mix and may fall out of favor. I don't really know why they're trying to make the Domi Willie JT thing happen. It's the Domi thing. They don't know where to put him He doesn't sure it for sure not that he's not good that again. I'm not saying he can't play and said he doesn't fit obviously anywhere on this roster and That's last year. They entered playoffs with him in the top six to he played by Matthews But what are you like what your physical philosophically trying to do? Mm-hmm, because you know the second you put Bobby McMahon

on that line, like Luke mentioned, it's really good. It's in the four check. It's really good. And they had a long stretch this year where we had people comment at least talk and tweeting in and being like, that's the least number one line.

Like it's their best line. Like that works. So you're trying to go into the playoffs to the most important time of the year where you're trying to steal a line here, where you're trying to go into the playoffs to the most important time of the year where you're trying to steal a line here, where you're trying to put Domi up there so you can make the bottom six better. Philosophically, if I'm a coach, I know that I have two excellent hockey lines that are going to be really good.

Press. Like it's like hit me. I'm going back to that. And then keep searching for a mix in the bottom six. For sure. Bobby McMahon on that second line has been really good We've talked about it before with him when he goes down to the bottom half the lineup gets a little bit lost Yeah, he's not quite the same player when he's not playing with good players Streeky you're streaky when he plays with Willie Willie finds him a lot to bars. It's a good mix

So for me, I'm going to the playoffs I just want to go back to McMahon Willie and JT because I know it's really good and nice man you have two elite borderline elite lines yeah why not press don't you have to mix it all throughout the lineup to me well let's find out what Craig Ruby has to say clip to on Domey Willie GT dos do por favor yeah there's things I like and there's things that there that I don't particularly like all the time. For me it's about them managing the puck more than anything. I think they got to understand that whole plays aren't good plays.

We need good hockey plays and if they can get that mindset that could be a dangerous line. I mean I think you have a little bit of everything on that line but you know they did a lot of good things. There's things that they probably can do better too. He doesn't want management. He doesn't love it. No I don't think that's gonna hold. Anytime the coach is like I work in the puck management and you think about it all three of them are guys who are pretty risky Yeah, like how worried are you guys that? We're about to go into game 82 here. There's probably not much to learn in game 82 now and they're still figuring out this middle six Yeah, it's moderately concerned. Yeah. Yeah. I mean if you look around the league

I don't follow teams day to day like I do with the least me I watch games, but I don't watch their morning skates I'm not on top of what lines are but how many look around the league, I don't follow teams day to day, like I do with the Lees, I mean, I watch games, but I don't watch their morning skates. I'm not on top of what lines are, but how many teams around the league are searching for something at this point of the season? Like the Lees have won the Atlantic and they haven't had like set lines, basically for the last month, they've been trying different things.

We've wanted them to try different things, but at this point, you'd hope whatever they've tried, they've settled on something and they figured it out they're not trying to insert Domi into the top six here to try to Change the lineup if you know you're gonna be in playoffs the purpose of the 82 games is to come up with as many Viable options as possible and the only two we're sure about they're not going with the McMahon second line one You know, that's one of the two we're sure about so You know, maybe they found something on the fourth line. They seemed to like Lawton

Lawrence and Jaren Kroc. That's kind of the third line, right? Yeah, it is. Yes. If they let them when they do the morning skate thing, they'll list it as the fourth line. But then it's kind of the third line. I think they played 15 against Carolina. Yeah, they played similar. They play more than the fourth. So I want to turn the page and go to these questions before if we if we want to go back and do the okay I think there's a very good conversation to have about the core Stuff, okay, because I don't know who was it asked the question Luke was down there today, but

Clip three Derek if you could play it it has the question in it with the answer a lot of the core guys in this room of experience some playoff disappointment the last seven eight years guys in this room have experienced some playoff disappointment in the last seven, eight years. What do you have to do to make sure that that isn't something that's in the past? I don't talk to him about it. It's in the past. I'm focused on tonight's game and then going forward. We're on to Cincinnati.

So I do think that this is pretty good. I do like the way that he said that. That you can talk about how these guys have all these scars and boy, we could talk about that. We could do a two hour show on just that. But having a different coach, I was skeptical if it was going to actually make a difference. But they have been very different this year.

The way they've played, the way they've looked, the way they've felt, it has looked and felt different. And when you're one of these core guys, when you look back and it's not Sheldon Keefe who you went through these heartbreaks with, where he's not, you know, you know every beat of him, he knows every beat of you, there's a different relationship,

I do think his consistent tone and everything he said, I do think it can make a a difference like I am full-on Feeling different and it's horrifying He's been very consistent in in that's in the past. Yes, like you ask about Joseph Wall at the beginning of season Well, I don't know what he was like before I got here, but he's looked good since I got here We got that fun. That's kind of been his his mo I mean, you won't even weigh in on the Battle of Ontario. He's like, I didn't see it. I wasn't there. We used to make fun of it and be like,

you have YouTube, like, watching videos. You know? I think it's refreshing for the guys, I think. Yeah, yeah. Well, you're right. That doesn't weigh into his evaluation. That probably does help. I was thinking that going into a series like this,

because he doesn't... he's not dramatic. He doesn't, Ruby, I mean, he doesn't blow up any of the highs and lows and stuff. It's probably going into the series. He's saying, just keep playing, just keep playing. And it kind of shows a trust and a belief that if you do just keep playing, it'll be okay. I'm sure that instills some confidence. And the other thing I was thinking too is this, uh, Senator's decor, which I know they're not playing the senators tonight, is very different from the decors that has shut down the Leafs core for in the past. It's been Ekblad and Headman and Carlo and long rangey, you know, Carlo, he plays for

the Leafs now. That's nice. Yes. But it's been different types. And now it's like, okay, it's Shabbat. You know, Sanderson obviously is a great skater but those are different types of guys that are gonna wear the bulk of the minutes and I wonder if that won't mean a Few more openings for Matthews and Marner than usual even if it is a trade of chances

Yeah, because they probably will get burned here Yeah, I think you would take that and how shut down they've been and the other thing is the Leafs are suddenly a four-checking Team like can they wear down a shebot and a Santa's body on those get yeah Like Sanderson's never been through a best of seven right that I mean I think he's the most talented defenseman in the series, but if you wear him down What's he gonna be like in game five game six? Yeah, the eighth time Matthew Nye's trucks them, right? You know and you know I think about some of the third pair Decors that they've seen in the past whether it's been guys like I don't know

Chernak or you know whoever it's been for Boston, but like you know this Clevin harmonic Montepolo there's there's going to be some openings for these guys. I think this is the year those guys get Ten points each and around okay. You know that's uh anyway 10 points each and around. Okay. You know, that's a anyway. Sens are half decent defensively though. They are. They are and they got good goaltending too. But you know, there's gonna be a few more cracks anyway.

Yeah, so I think a lot of yeah, I just it would be really nice to have the middle of the ice be open a little bit more here and there in a playoff series at least because it just feels except for the one against Tampa or Vasileski Just would not stop letting in soft goals for six games. Maybe the biggest reason they won It'd be nice to just have a little bit more space for them. It's um is it unmovable force versus unmovable? What is it a movable force versus unstoppable? Whatever that is It feels like flipped whatever it is the playoff the Leafs playoff Experiences yes, which are many and bad versus the inexperience of the Ottawa Senators where sure they have nothing to lose This is new for them But like they have stopped those moments which side of this is gonna it's gonna be a really fascinating battle of two different styles Yeah, I will say Robertson had to have a quote today where he's like, you know

We've got the playoff experience or whatever. And I was like, he kind of does, you know, I know it's not a good but he was there in Columbus. He played six games last year. I don't know what he has but it's got to be. Did he play when he was 14 against the Blue Jackets? Feels like he's been around forever. He's still the second youngest Leaf and he feels like he's

on the team for 23 years Yeah, so we'll hope that you know the the inexperience for the senators and the playoffs comes into comes it But I'm sure there's a lot of people that are picking against Elise, which is so easy I got to see every person that's not that wants to actually I'm gonna go ahead and just say it's It's a spite pick at that point, because I've gone through the data. I watched, there's no reason to think the Sens win the series outside of Leafs Ghost. And so if you wanna say Leafs Ghost is the reason I think they'll lose, I'm in.

You can have that one, but if you're like, ah, the Senators forwards, the top three forwards in the series are on the Leafs. Brady Kachak, you can have those if you likeuck I saw I saw I think it was one of the sends Twitter account when their fan accounts put out like a unbiased list and it's like Matthew's first Brady Kachuck second, right? Yeah, it's just a million Like it's it's starting I think you know, we'll get into this like a lot of these questions, but For a lot of leaf fans, you know, you've been going up against the Bruins, which is a natural rival, but it's not a close rival where like you're going up.

We're like, you can have emotional. You could have a buddy who's a Sens fan. You can have like family who's from Ottawa who are Sens family. This is like way closer than it's been. So we'll see. But I think this is going to be a much different feel amongst the fans than it's been. So we'll see, but I think this is gonna be a much different feel amongst the fans than it has been in years past. I actually had a friend text me,

is Sammy ready for the Leafs to be agitated by No. Greg, Kachak, Perron. No, no. Pinto. I'm not ready for that. All right, so we had, you know, there's seven games in the series.

Sammy has created seven Battle of Ontario question marks. We only have, you know, 40 minutes left in the hour. I want to get them started. We'll do a couple before we hit the break. Yeah. You want to start with the first one? I'll start with the top and we'll throw it around the room. Question number one, the most hated figure for LeastFans.

Who's going to be the most hated figure in the series for LeastFans and the most hated figure for SensFans? I think for LeastFans it's easy. Chuck, God, Chuck. Chuck Kachuk. Thank you very much. That's a great job. Is anyone here not gonna pick Brady Kachuk? Well, I will pick Kachuk,

but I'll throw another one out there. Nick Cousins, guys. Oh yeah, wow. And there was a... How do I sleep on that? And there was a bit of a history there. And he tried to kill Quillen. Try to take off his leg.

Yeah. That's a tough start to Quillen's career. Ridley Gregg. Throw him in there too. Yeah. I think that this is... I rewatched that by the way. Sorry, the Riley on Gregg the other day. Boy, he greased him pretty good. Oh my God, he hammered him. That's actually not a two inside baseball here. But that was Super Bowl weekend and JD and I didn't do least talk that night because I was away at a Super Bowl cottage he was not doing it and we were watching the game and The worst one to not do I looked at my I got my phone is the room. I went down like to go to bed I looked at my phone. I was like, oh shouldn't have looked at that

My god that was horrible one to miss but I think it's I Think Ridley Gregg for that like everyone knows Kachak is yeah what he is, but he's also Really effective and like a good hockey player too Yeah But I do think that Ridley Gregg has a chance to be number one if I was gonna do like the power rankings I think he's willing to be oh, yeah, I think I think he'll be willing. I think that's his whole I'm sure that Travis green is having a I don't know if I can say this in Rio a hole is only meeting

with Chuck with cousins with I would love that I would love if you have a meeting with Toronto with Perron with Greg being like these guys You know they don't necessarily have the pushback that you guys do Draw walk the line walk the line try not to take penalties or whatever But they're gonna use that element that is has to be an element that they use when we get farther down one of the questions Yeah, is the answer for how the sense could pull it off is that they're just like the But I mean they get into, they just start taking penalties.

It could go the other way, but I'm picking Ridley Gregg. So then the other part of that is the most hated figure for Sens fans. And I love this question because it's actually tough. Yeah. You know, I'll let you go first, Luke. Who do you think would be the most hated figure for Senators fans? Well, my gut instinct was Domi, but I'm going to go with Oliver Ackman-Larsen. Great pick.

He is interesting. I have that too. I've watched so many games this season where stuff happens behind the play. He gets into it with one member of the opposing team and they have like a mini feud that lasts 60 minutes. Yeah. He's sneaky edgy. And he's never gonna fight, so he's just gonna keep driving you crazy. Yeah. And I think there's gonna be a lot of action around the net front and he's sneaky edgy and he's never gonna fight so he's just gonna keep driving you crazy

Yeah, and I think there's gonna be a lot of action around the net front and he's gonna be pushing guys away from Stole our Stoller's and and wallet eventually probably yeah And yeah, he's gonna get into it with with some of the sense forwards and their MO is gonna be to make life difficult on Really good Leafs goal-titting so for sure sure, I'm going to go with OEL. OEL is on my list too. I also have Nye's because Nye's seeing him jaw-churn act the other day. I feel like he's confidence wise come into his own as a run your mouth guy. I think my pick would be Jake McCabe because I think Jake McCabe or potentially Scott Lotton.

Oh, Lotton's a good pick. Yeah, because I think Scott Lotton has a lot more. Oh, Lawton's a good guy. Yeah, because I think Scott Lawton has a lot more to give on the greasy side of things. I think he's really, over the last, I don't know, three weeks, he's really started to, maybe not three weeks, two weeks, started to find his role in the team. I like him more lately.

Improving, improving. And we were sort of promised a bit of grease. We haven't seen it since his stage, was it Greg? He fought Greg, right? I I do think that there's a chance for him to get a little greasy and do something but my number one pick Will be mckay because I think he's gonna hammer something and and Scott Lawton when he signed here when first thing he said is Like I can't wait to get back to the playoffs. Yes last time he played the playoffs I believe the Flyers were in the bubble no fans fans. And now he's hometown, little bit of pressure to make a name for yourself.

Clean slate too on the score sheet, so no one's going to be bringing up that he has no goals. I think he just misses playoff hockey. I think it's a good, sneaky good pick. It's funny that none of us did pick Domi. Oh yeah, Domi's probably a pretty good pick. But I do feel like Domi just will have a flare-up and he'll fight. And then, you know, like it doesn't feel like a constant seven game series won't...

You know. Could be. Yeah, it could be. But you know, you mentioned Scott Lawton there. In 1920, when he played... Well, not 2019, 2020. In that playoff run, which I guess was the bubble as he reminded me. He played 15 games.

He had nine points, scored 5 goals and had 4 assists. So his last action in the playoffs, he was pretty good. So that's ahead of the Matthews Marner pace, I think, in postseason. So no question. All right, which brings us to our obvious next question. Mm hmm. Biggest storyline. I went to hate first before I went to this.

That was well done. Biggest storyline in the series is? Like I went to hate first before I went to this as well done biggest storyline in the series is I Think there's an argument for the coaching aspect for the Leafs and how different it looks For the the Leafs and just like what it's gonna look like between Sheldon Keefe But it's odd but but the number one thing is Just leaves playoff ghosts. Yeah, because you mentioned it before. The only real way. Like, Sens are good.

They're a great team. They've made the playoffs, but they have significantly less lead points than the Leafs this year. They are not as good as the Leafs. But the only way it really comes up is the ghosts. And the ghosts, unfortunately, are the biggest story line. For me, at least. What do you have? Yeah, I have something similar for sure because so the Leafs beat the Senators in this series.

You say, wow, you know, Ottawa made the playoffs. What a step forward. They got a taste. That's something to build on. End of story. Yeah, but Leafs lose. Yeah, it's they can't get it done. Who's getting fired? Who's getting who's walking out the door for nothing? Yeah, it's uh, it's a whole thing. Well the the timing it's a thing so so mine is I have written Leafs pressure and it's because All of the previous failures, you know, they say the whole thing about like was it cracking a rock? It's not the hundredth flow. It's the 99 before that kind of do the damage. Yeah It's not the hundredth flow. It's the 99 before that kind of do the damage. Yeah

Right now there's a I see like a thing of like TNT is a TNT on the box with the handle and Your bitter rival the other team in Ontario has the handle and has the chance to nuke the whole thing Yes, like the very people you don't want to be holding it Yeah, have it within their power to say, buy Marner, buy Tavares, who knows what else. By Fanny potentially, like it's a lot. You know, and it's like, that could change fundamentally everything about what has been this team that has been regular season dominant for almost a decade.

Remember the playoff battle of Alberta when it came out that the Oilers broke the flames? Yes. flames. Yes Yes, I just did when you were saying that that's what popped into mind you can't have the senators could lay claim to We are the ones that broke the may finally I would say that I will forever Have so much disdain towards this core if they ruin the

Battle of Ontario for me because the Battle of Ontario is like my fondest memories well that it's the number one the success it's the number one thing that like you know I've heard seen JD talking about it we've talked about it with him like just it's formed my friend my my my real fanship you know I was a little young for other stuff like it's, I feel like it's gonna happen. But if this core loses to the Sens and then Shani's gone, Marner's gone, and it's like, we ended the week, blah, blah, blah,

like, you'll never forget. I, like, I'm going on a sabbatical. Like, I, like, the Monday after the series is over, I get Disco Dan and you, I come Dan and just don't leave a jersey on the bus Real quick. Yeah, what was that song you sent? Oh Yeah, I've got a crazy bus song sent to me I don't know. I still don't really hammered out the details if that's AI or recorded or I said a DM to a guy about it So we'll talk about it after I'll play it for you guys or for you Luke in the break

somebody made a song about the Jersey which player will be the series X Factor go ahead Luke yeah I got I got Brady Kachak just because you know I think he's the heartbeat at a team apparently he's fully healthy and even even playing tonight I believe but you know he has battled multiple injuries since four nations so one of them suffered at four nations so I think his health is an X factor his play is a is an X factor I mean this guy's been championing at the bit to play playoff hockey's in the you know Saddle Dome with beers in his pockets

then he's following around Matthew for both his cup runs actually interviewed him on the ice after Matthew won the cup oh really yeah yeah and it like he just he's just dying to play playoff hockey great now is that he might make some cadre like well that's what I was gonna say so does he channel that into I'm scoring five goals this series or does he channel it into a two-game suspension? Just absolutely behead someone off the opening We've often I mean we've had multiple conversations about Brady Kachuk on this show where we've watched the Sens play multiple times this year against the Leafs other games where it's just

Can you just play hockey man? Yeah, well, you're really good at hockey. And you're above having to do this every shift. It's a factor, I understand that. But the thing that scares me is, when the games were really high stakes at the Four Nations, he was spectacular. He was really good at the Four Nations. But I actually did think it took him a bit to get settled in, because he was pretty fired up.

He scrapped in the first game, he dropped the gloves. Was he the first one that did it on Matthew the first was yeah and then it was Bennett and Brady that did it after but in that gold medal game him and Matthews were both out of this world good he scores a tying goal he almost like scores the our country ending goal when he shoots it into the net almost became America so how good he played in that is scary for me who's your ex-writer? Austin Matthews. Okay well where you guys? Oh mine's Mitch Marner. No well this is the thing I thought you guys would take the low

hang for his goalies. No. It's like you know whatever to me it's like this guy is he which guy is he? We've seen both versions of a guy who is a heart trophy winner and I don't know what do you call it when he's not that is it? He's had some stretches where he's been not good and frankly, I think he's been not great lately Yeah, I wonder if he's saving it a little bit. I kind of do too. Hope so. Yeah, really hope that's true. Yeah He's going on right? Yeah, I believe he has 54 points in the last since the calendar turned to January 1st Which is fourth best in the NHL so like it's not like he's not been playing well But it we've seen games where he pours it on and it looks different so

The other one would be nice. It was just also a top-end guy, but can he be sort of net front garbage man Oh, we have gone on to well quickly sneak mine in here before we go. Give me Riley Riley. Yes back one yeah, because I mean the only real hope for him all year is that It's the the yeah playoff Riley this the switch flips and he goes Mco. Yeah, right. It's like hope Let's flip the switch here Hopefully this is the because that's all you've really been able to hang your hat on all year because it clearly has been Not a great year for him. He's been in the spotlight. He's been a whipping boy here

If he's good if he like turns himself into What it's been like against Tampa. He was good against boss like point per game He's 23 minutes if that happens the least D course that it just is like they have a legit Shutdown top pair with, for the first time ever with Tan, Evan McCabe. Carlo and Riley has been really good since Riley's gotten here. And then you just, you know. Boyle Benoit.

And then you get, yeah. So if Riley is playoff Riley, Leafs Decor looks great. So that's my expectors Riley. I think it's a great one. If you can turn it around. Like this. There you go.

And totally redeem yourself. And when we're back, we have four more questions to preview some of the Leafs Send series. And we will be back in just a couple of minutes. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Born, Niki and Fox. Today, we're a different crew, Sands Kipper, and we're going to carry on doing our post-season preview a little bit. We're going to do more tomorrow with Kip. We'll go through all the series and we'll break down auto a little bit more too. It reminds me, tomorrow we're going to do our first block like we usually would. tomorrow with Kip we'll go through all the series and we'll break down auto a little bit more to I Reminds me

Tomorrow we're gonna do our first block like we usually would good memory, but it's a very important time It's playoff leaf line time playoff leaf line time. You heard him here first And we do you guys do we find when I was gone? No, really? We did did you we did a few? Okay. Anyways, it's very important time So the number is four one six four one three four one four one four one six four one three four one four one I think yeah, that's number so call it call it and leave a message and if it's good, I'll play it So there you go. All right, we're gonna carry on with our questions from Sammy, which I love this one here What is the nightmare scenario for least fans and the nightmare scenario for sends fans?

Should we just have yours? Why don't you go first? We kind of laid it out and when we were talking about the The senators like ending beliefs. Yeah, that's true. Like the T out nightmare that the TNT rock thing was a very good sort of Comparison and I just I can't really go by that. I think there's another scenario where the for the first time ever Matthews and Marner are like really great. And then like Stollers and Walters turn into pumpkins. Right? Like it's like that.

I think where they're like for the first time ever, the core four guys are really great together and it goes seven games and they score a bunch of goals. They have 10 points each like you laid out and then Wall can't sell or stole ours. Let's in a couple weak ones They go down early like there's just those two to me would be the big ones But outside of the sense ending the lease as we know it. Yeah, there's not many bigger nightmares in that anything else to add on that Mike three Mike on We got you you're back. Yeah, I would say the the reverse sweep would be the worst add on that? Mike, turn your mic on. There you go.

I would say the reverse sweep would be the worst. They go up 3-0 and that would be the worst way to go up. That's fair. They'd blow a 3-1 series lead like the Montreal Canadiens, something like that. Yeah, something like that. It's harder to construct the opposite. What is the nightmare scenario for the senators? Okay.

And I, this occurred to me earlier this week in Buffalo, where it turned into a party at Key Bank Center for the Maple Leafs. All the Sabres fans, what few of them there were filed out early and Matthews gets his milestone and Marner gets his milestone, the Leafs clinch and Stollers gets a shutout in your barn and all these Leaf fans are hanging around after What if they turn the Canadian Tire Center into that in game four or six? I guess it would be and The Sens fans just get out cheered and it turns into a big Leaf fan party. Yeah. In

Canada. That's a really good one. Yeah. Funny that that's off ice though. Right. Like we're not even talking about an on ice scenario. That's no, I just mean the scene like it's like you finally make the playoffs and the opposing team, your bitter rival just throws a party in your house. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I had written was that, you know, there is the ways that this can go right for Ottawa is that? Shut down the core and the the goal-tening Toronto is not perfect and you know They go six or seven they squeak by they you know blow up the team whatever

There's a chance because the Leafs are I think most people to greet better team. Yeah, it has worked out There's a chance leaves just beat him out, right? Yeah, you know like they beat him in four or five games center score six seven goals over the series You know that where it's like, oh, we're not that close Yeah, that's the scenario the nightmare scenario for them where they're like, oh we got a lot of work to do Yeah, that was that was my where they're like really and listen Saying that's gonna they are so excited and good for them. Yes, they're they can be excited They haven't had a chance to be excited in a long time. They're good for them

But if the Leafs just blow them out of the water would be a pretty big nightmare I know where they're just like then talking so much junk and they've been you know They're like all oh and three in the regular season. They haven't it's been five straight that they beat the Leafs Yeah, like they're they're really really excited about it And then the playoff switch happens and they at least just kick the crap out of them That would be a night because the other piece of that is you know Perron's getting older, Drew's getting older and you start and Jensen's getting older and you start going how are they gonna get better next year than they are now?

Yeah. You know they would have some work to do. Oh I forgot for a hated guy Stutzla by the way. Oh Divey? He's the worst diver in the league. Think so? Oh no question. I think if you did an NHL player poll about worst diver in the league, he's number one,

but no question. Maybe Kadri. Yeah. Maybe Holmberg. He draws every time. Holmberg does. But Stutsel is brutal. He's got that tinted visor.

Leaf fans are going to hate him. I like him a lot. He kills Leafs though. He's really good against him. Which Leafs forward outside the top six will score a big goal? Luke. Steven Lawrence. Oh, yeah. So after that Buffalo game, he was the only one with actual vivid recollections of the

Battle of Ontario. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about, you know, during the commercial breaks, he'd be pretending to be the Leafs shooting it in the mini stick net that he had right by the TV. You know, he's taught talking about Patty Lale Lalim and Joe Newendike like this guy lives this right and now he's like now I get to now I get to be in it yeah five game winners already this season for for old Stevie Larrice. Five? Yeah he's got the one in Buffalo.

Right yeah yeah it was yeah they shot him out. Up to five. That's gonna be near the top of the team. Yeah he's got eight goals yeah he's got eight goals five of them game winners So put me down for Lorenz. Yeah, that's a good one Sammy I'm gonna say I think the easy one would be Bobby McMahon But I'll say count him as top six. I'll say Scott lot. Yeah. Yeah, I just think I really because of how down it's been on him since the start of him getting here and how much you know ink has been spilt about how bad it's been for him since he got here. I do think there's a world

where this like sports are weird and it just flips and he's really good. And he you know scores an OT winner big fight something happens. I'm bullish on Scott Lawton headed to the playoff things I think his games in a good place and I think he's gonna be a real factor in this year So I think it's gonna be him that scores a big one. Please make it a breakaway slap shot Oh unbelievable love the slap shot. Did you see the one he scored on last year? Yes It was the most like ferocious bar down like it's like loud ringing in your ears. Yeah, so I'll stick with last year

I was on this and it didn't happen Nick Robertson does not need much. He doesn't need many looks He doesn't need many moments He just needs one in the right spot and he shoots it as well when he was I've said this on this show before but When he was on the American League team, I had friends. I just left the Marlies They you know and these guys would all skate together and they said, and everyone take a breath here, they said, he shoots it as well as Austin Matthews. He doesn't get it off as quickly. He doesn't get to the same spots.

He's not as powerful, whatever. But you give the two of them a puck and say, hit this spot in the net. Robertson might do it harder and as accurately. So he doesn't need many of those opportunities. One of them, it's got to happen once. He was skunked last year entirely so I love that here's here's to hope when he gets His moment. I mean he's gotta he's played well the last couple weeks. I really liked his games on the pocket He's under six and he's bringing his winning pucks back Which is how he's gonna stay in the line-up Steven Lorenz tied with Kareel Kapri Sothe Adrian Kempe

Carter Verhage Jake Gensel Ryan who Jen Hopkins Stefan Nason a bunch of good names that he's tied with for goingel Kaprizov, Adrian Kempay, Carter Verhagge, Jake Gensel, Ryan Hugent-Hopkin, Stefan Nason, bunch of good names that he's tied with for game winning goals this year. You know, he scored two goals for the Florida Panthers in playoffs last year, and I think at least one of them was a game winner. I need to go back and watch,

but he scored playoff goals. It's happened. He can shoot it in. Like that goal he scored against Buffalo. Yeah. Was this nice? Found a soft spot and hit it Yeah Love this question and our listeners are gonna love this question, too

If you could have one player from the old battle of Ontario on today's Leafs Who would you pick or who you want this one first? Take it? Yeah, I think it's it's a very philosophical question again about What you think the Leafs need? Yeah, right. So it's like easy to be like, ah, give me Matt Sundin. I mean, the obvious answer is be like, give me the best player. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. tuck me into any of these guys. Yeah like that element of Just willing to go into the other team's bench type of guy to fight But I mean I my favorite player my whole life when I was a kid up until I still have his jersey I'm going Tucker. Yeah, Darcy Tucker Yeah, I had I had Sandeen. He did yeah, I mean I didn't want to overthink Positional need I actually really think like I was going through this too and I was like don't yeah, that's the answer

I mean we spent a lot of time talking about their top six and who fits Modern like today Matt's might fit Yeah, it's a and you know There's only one guy that knows how to correctly pronounce Yarn Crook. Yarn Crook. Yarn Crook. And Kipper doesn't do it every time. I know. So you can just say Yarn Crook.

Yarn Crook! There it is. I, you know, I had Tucker too. I, you know, it is that element of just what they feel like they lack sometimes. I mean, well, recognizing Sundeen's the right answer. Wouldn't my McCabe blast him in the power play too? Well, so McCabe's the other one I have written down for need Yeah, you know McCabe. Yeah, I forward power play though. Yes true

But caberley to McCabe float over a saucer pass just hammer it on that I really enjoyed I did I did say if I could take one player from the Battle of Ontario and drop it into the series though Lillian Lily Please I will never and drop it into the series though. Lillian. Lillian. Yeah. I was gonna say, Lillian please. I will never, ever forget what I felt. Like I almost- The new Indyke shot it in?

The second one. I remember watching that live. I was elevated to the clouds when that second one went in. That's as excited as I've, and shocked, and I think it was Bob Kohl, what is going on?

The best the best that's awesome. Yeah, so that was positive and fun. We're gonna end it on a negative note Sorry, I guess I could have done these better What happens if the Leafs lose the series we kind of already hit on this, right? Did do we think it goes all the way to the top? Do we think it's? No Marner. Yeah. Yeah, I I think that the chances of Marner walking go way way up way way up Yeah, and I Yeah, I think the president might be yeah, I mean The you're looking at you're looking at a one in nine

postseason series record yes core and some of the stats of like in elimination games and it's just like Have to look at even like why I mean I know being the president of the Leafs gotta be sick But like if they lose this year, why would you why like go to the got a lot of money? I was just in Hawaii. Yeah, it was awesome. It's so cool there man. Like you're rich Wildest dreams like just go anywhere else I get that high burn rate once you're living like that I think but is there any way that just Like it's kind of the same. So yes because there is a way we've had this exact same conversation for five straight years and

The coach changed last year mind you that's fair they've changed the general manager I get that but like you know the players have never changed I do think there's a world where it's like a run-it-back situation if even if they lose in the first round you so recently just hired Berube he's not going to yeah hey there's a great first time they've won a division in and truly did a great job building a team truly Yeah, you look going into the year You know they added Chris Tanev and Brandon Carlo to their decor and all of our colors and all of our colors and Anthony Stollers

You know pretty good offseason and trade down. What else you're supposed to do? Yeah, you know I guess how you can be mad about Lawton how mad are yeah? Yeah, they'll be mad in three years when they pick the next set jarvis with that pick That's when they'll be mad right right now You can't get too bent out of shape with it, but the point is those two guys it doesn't feel like they're going anywhere Like Shani feels like he is respected and you know You know they've put a good product on the ice for years Yeah, well Keith Kelly came in here saying that winning is the only thing that matters

Yeah, true. So how's that gonna look if they don't win? Yeah, maybe you're right. I don't know. It felt like you wanted to take a year to, you know, give everyone a little bit. Yeah, kind of have it. Oversee it a little bit. Oversee it. Yeah. And unity.

Chemistry. Great skill. I just, I don't think it's gonna be the craziest thing that if they potentially lose to the Ottawa Centers, which I don't think they're going to, but if they do, I don't think it's the craziest thing craziest thing that if they potentially lose to the Ottawa centers Which I don't think they're going to but if they do I don't think it's the craziest thing that like Marner's just resigned It's like Marlowe back, you know Behind the scenes whatever it seems like he would like to be a Maple Leaf Yeah, it seems like that would be his party buses are longer from Toronto to Colorado for your hundred point I love that player. I love the guy. It feels like he wants to be there So, you know if he has ten points in the seven game loss, I think how do you not try to resign him?

I think it can't be perceived as His fault. Yes, I would say that's fair Like if he plays well and the team loses and it's not his fault and he's not the number one whipping boy Which he's been in this in this era Yeah Him and all the other guys that have been whipping boys if it's not like on his shoulders I still do think there's a world where comes but if he's brutal and like everybody's killing him again. He's gone

Yeah, but I do think that there is a potential because we said a hundred hundred years in a row that it's never gonna be Yeah, they'll never bring everybody back and they have But it is tough. It's like I just do negative of conversation. I know, but you heard how ranked and Marner destinations in the offseason. I heard someone, you know, a bunch of Jets fans being like Neil Peon, you know, he's this he's that he makes mistakes, but the risk of losing Neil P.

And you're worse without him. And I think that's the same with Marner and it's the same with Tavares who just scored 38 goals. It's like, you have to get good players. Magical Amulet. Wanna say thank you so much for coming in. Thanks for having me in here. It was a blast. It was a blast.

Covering the biggest game of the year to me. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure you'll be playing the up, paying the utmost attention. Appreciate your time. We always enjoy your work and look forward to having you back on during the postseason. When we come back, we're gonna talk to Renaud Lavoie

and Jacob Stoller for the Winnipeg Jets. Get into all things national after this.